#emc | Logs for 2009-02-11

[00:59:30] <HP_Administrator> HP_Administrator is now known as Bridgeport_II
[01:21:01] <Dallur> If anyone has some extra energy I just checked in a fair amount of changes to the plasma configs including a software simulation, would be great if someone feels like trying it out and giving feedback (from trunk see plasma-thc-sim)
[01:35:07] <jepler> cool! (but I know little enough about plasma to not be a useful tester)
[01:37:49] <jepler> hmmmm
[01:38:18] <jepler> after copying emc.nml from configs/common (the version you checked in is old and has a problem on 64-bit systems like mine), I get another error at startup: HAL: ERROR: thread 'base-thread' not found
[01:38:34] <jepler> this is runningconfigs/plasma-thc-sim/plasma_mm.ini
[01:45:31] <Dallur> jepler: hmm
[01:45:48] <Dallur> jepler: I let me copy the new emc.nml over and test it
[01:46:23] <jepler> OK, let me know if I should update and try again
[01:46:49] <Dallur> jepler: hmm ran fine over here
[01:46:57] <Dallur> jepler,
[01:47:18] <Dallur> jepler: going to do a clean checkout and diff against it to see if cvs missed something
[01:47:38] <jepler> OK
[01:52:07] <jepler> bbl
[01:56:04] <Bridgeport_II> I am looking for some help with my EMC instalation. I cant seem to run AXIS it gets to the manual tool change pop up a when trying to load and the entire computer locks up. the mouse will not move and I have to shut it down TKEMC works ok but cant get Tool change to work with it either
[02:04:34] <cradek> Bridgeport_II: that's the strangest thing I've heard today
[02:05:45] <Bridgeport_II> Any thoughts on what to start with
[02:06:19] <cradek> what exactly do you do and see when it happens?
[02:09:31] <tomp> links.. hexapod http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/MotionsaOfAHexapodRobot also look at Inverse Kinematics and Forward Kinematics demos :) (matrix driven)
[02:12:08] <Bridgeport_II> I have a pico-system board connected to my computor and the basic set of config files loaded. when display is set for TKEMC things seem to work except when MDI T01m06 and the spindle light does not come on or the TOOL # on the display does not change. If i Change display to AXIS then when I Start EMC it pops up the manual tool change box in the lower right corner and it does not go away and...
[02:12:11] <Bridgeport_II> ...the computer locks up
[02:15:34] <tomp> hmm, yes the pop up shoul automaticallyy dissappear after a few secons (less than 1 minute) perhaps you computer cannot use the graphics modes use by axis. try a sim-axis to test. if hang, then not compatible.
[02:17:31] <cradek> ah, so it's not even starting up. I thought you were saying it locked up after you issue the T1 M6.
[02:17:43] <cradek> perhaps you have an opengl-related problem if it locks when AXIS starts
[02:17:57] <cradek> you could try running glxgears, which is an opengl program unrelated to EMC
[02:20:05] <Dr_Phreakenstein> here is a general idea for help with that
[02:21:01] <Dr_Phreakenstein> after confirming opengl with glxgears, try running strace with some good options, and send the output to a file. that whay you will know exactly how far it got before reset
[02:22:37] <Dr_Phreakenstein> -v and -x may be good, research and experiment to find some others
[02:23:18] <Dr_Phreakenstein> s/-x/-ff
[02:25:25] <Bridgeport_II> My computer is a DELL Optiplex GX240 pentium 4 1.7ghz with an ATI rage 128 pro AGP 4x if that helps any
[02:25:39] <Dallur> I hate CVS, I almost hate it as much as I hate stainless steel splinters
[02:34:35] <bglackin> Question on driver boards - homebrewed, kit or commercial - Is there a way to test them to determine the actual timing on them? Since the chips have one set of specs, obviously other electronics on the boards will impact the overall results
[02:38:23] <cradek> it's true there might be input optos or RC filters that will make the timings longer than the chip datasheets
[02:38:45] <cradek> in that case, you'd find the specs for the optos, or determine time constants on RC filters, etc
[02:39:28] <SWPadnos> get a signal generator and output a aquare wave while you crank up the frequency
[02:39:45] <SWPadnos> with the motor disconnected, from the machine, of course :)
[02:40:09] <cradek> you can try to determine what it requires empirically, but this result will be inferior to an engineering approach such as understanding the components that make up the board.
[02:40:39] <cradek> the interesting failures are those that happen very rarely. you won't find them with a signal generator.
[02:41:07] <SWPadnos> true, you can use a scope too
[02:41:25] <SWPadnos> measuer rise time and fall time through the opto
[02:41:29] <SWPadnos> measure
[02:41:50] <SWPadnos> take the difference and add it to each of the stepper chip specs
[02:41:57] <cradek> SWPadnos: you might be able to find max pulse rate like that, but something obscure like dirhold time, probably not...
[02:42:03] <SWPadnos> s/chip/circuit/
[02:42:33] <SWPadnos> dir hold should come from a data sheet or a design analysis on the stepping circuit (I'm assuming steppers here, could be a bad assumption)
[02:49:35] <cradek> fenn: would you send your key to me directly please?
[02:50:52] <bglackin> Steppers it is
[02:52:48] <bglackin> Thanks for the info - for now - I am sticking with the available info on my board (Hobbycnc - allegro chip) but some time in the distant future I might actually dig into it
[02:53:14] <cradek> are you trying to solve a problem, or just curious?
[02:53:27] <bglackin> YEs
[02:53:38] <bglackin> More curious than problem
[02:54:11] <fenn> cradek: ok, uh, did i do it right?
[02:54:26] <bglackin> It appears with the more hobby oriented boards - there is less detail available on the boards and the developers seem less inclined to care
[02:54:57] <SWPadnos> they often seem to have the attitude that you should be able to load their Mach config instead of asking for technical help
[02:55:03] <cradek> fenn: got it, one minute.
[02:55:12] <bglackin> Next time perhaps the wallet will open a bit wider to get a better board
[02:55:22] <bglackin> Bingo SWP
[02:55:32] <bglackin> change your velocity and go away
[02:57:54] <cradek> fenn: try it
[03:00:42] <Dallur> Jepler: Looks like it's fixed, just me and CVS having another difference of oppinion
[03:00:55] <cradek> fenn: yay
[03:00:56] <cradek> bbl
[03:02:19] <fenn> thanks
[03:21:25] <jepler> Dallur: looks like it still assumes there's a parport, which isn't there with configure --enable-simulator. I hacked it some more (basically, remove loadrt parport; remove all links, nets, and so forth for parport; and fix up some 'link' commands to use 'net' so they create the signals in question) but now it's stuck with feedhold on while trying to turn on the spindle. (running plasmatest.ngc)
[03:23:16] <jepler> Dallur: my hacky, non-working changes are shown here: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/plasma-thc-sim-hacks.patch
[03:23:36] <Dallur> jepler: ahh ok, now it makes sense
[03:23:55] <Dallur> I never tried it with enable-simulator
[03:24:53] <jepler> -net TorchOn => and2.3.out parport.1.pin-01-out oneshot.1.in not.2.in
[03:24:56] <jepler> ah, this deletion is almost certainly wrong
[03:25:51] <jepler> I'll look back at the nets I deleted and try to do it right this time
[03:26:56] <Dallur> jepler: I just did a clean checkout, compile and everythings runs fine without --enable-simulator
[03:27:18] <Dallur> jepler: there are a couple of signals which probably need to be there but all the signal activity, probing and such should be simulated
[03:27:54] <jepler> -#net ArcOK parport.1.pin-15-in-not => or2.4.in1 xor2.1.in1 oneshot.2.in
[03:27:55] <jepler> +#net ArcOK => or2.4.in1 xor2.1.in1 oneshot.2.in
[03:28:06] <Dallur> jepler: btw I updated the config for the plasma-thc-sim
[03:28:08] <jepler> hm, is ArcOK needed? looks like you commented it out
[03:28:29] <jepler> yes, I updated again after your change of ca. 45 minutes ago
[03:28:29] <Dallur> jepler: CVS messed up my checkin, so I updated again
[03:28:45] <Dallur> jepler: ArcOK is handled in the sim file for the sim config
[03:29:09] <jepler> aha, torch on / arc ok
[03:29:21] <Dallur> jepler: simulator.hal replaces signals which otherwise would come from hw
[03:29:23] <jepler> do you mind if I check this in, or would you prefer to look it over?
[03:29:50] <Dallur> jepler: go ahead
[03:31:27] <jepler> does the -sim version show the same panel you use on the real thing?
[03:31:33] <Dallur> jepler: yup
[03:31:50] <Dallur> jepler: it's the same panel as the mp1000 series, the thc300 series does not have the voltage control through serial
[03:33:15] <jepler> did you have much trouble updating the configuration for TRUNK / 2.3?
[03:33:58] <Dallur> jepler: not that much, just went through the changelogs, they were all spot on so that made it easier
[03:34:11] <jepler> I am sure there are things we haven't yet listed here http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingConfigurationsForDevelopmentVersions so any additions would be very nice
[03:34:45] <Dallur> jepler: I just went through the cvs changelogs for the other configs
[03:36:17] <jepler> I should do that and review/update that page
[03:36:20] <jepler> well, when I get a round tuit
[03:37:02] <Dallur> jepler: I have a list here of what I had to do
[03:38:13] <Dallur> jepler: or I had, it was from memory: Change the SCALE keyword, delete SHMMEM ID, remove max step vel, change the thread loading line
[03:44:24] <jepler> ok
[03:44:25] <Dallur> need to sleep, if there is anything else I'll check in tomorrow, gnite
[03:44:26] <jepler> thanks
[03:44:28] <jepler> see you
[03:44:42] <Dallur> thank you :)
[04:31:50] <fenn> hehe also from the guy who wrote the hexapod demo in mathematica: "Does your cat type on your keyboard? Use CatNip, which locks your keyboard whenever it detects cat-like typing."
[05:00:53] <LawrenceG> yay, new stepper supply built today passed burn in test
[05:02:21] <LawrenceG> tip: pick up old stereos from thrift shop, reused power transformer, diodes, caps, fuse
[05:04:01] <eric_unterhausen> how many volts typically?
[05:05:09] <LawrenceG> this one was 30vrms... with bridge and cap gave 40vdc no load, 34vdc with 3 amps load 1% ripple
[05:06:57] <LawrenceG> guessed from transformer size that it was about 100watts.... gets pretty warm after 30min at full load, but steppers are much easier on power supply than the light bulbs I used
[05:09:57] <LawrenceG> http://imagebin.ca/view/Mr3fuX.html
[05:10:28] <eric_unterhausen> that's nice looking
[05:11:05] <LawrenceG> I love it when the junk box yields a useful bit of kit
[05:11:14] <eric_unterhausen> no kidding
[05:11:31] <eric_unterhausen> my junk pile has revealed itself to be less than useful any number of times
[05:12:07] <eric_unterhausen> it isn't pulling its own weight around here
[05:12:52] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: Dude where can I find a slightly used 30' push up pole?
[05:13:41] <LawrenceG> 30' is big.... self supporting or guyed?
[05:14:22] <LawrenceG> standard structural tubing comes in 22' lengths
[05:15:06] <JymmmEMC> well, I think I'll need to wire it to keep it from swaying... just for ATSC
[05:15:21] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC, I have used a couple for antenna masts
[05:15:56] <JymmmEMC> but where to get them now? RS used to sell them, but not anymore =(
[05:19:25] <LawrenceG> not sure... ebay?.... China??
[05:20:48] <JymmmEMC> SMACK!
[05:20:58] <JymmmEMC> Like I'f gonna buy shipping from china
[05:21:02] <LawrenceG> http://www.texastowers.com/ustower_ma.htm
[05:21:23] <LawrenceG> I love those towers
[05:21:31] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: I'm not paying $1400 either
[05:21:41] <JymmmEMC> I said PUSH-UP, not tower!
[05:23:50] <LawrenceG> http://www.texastowers.com/aluminum_.htm the 0.058 wall stuff telescopes
[05:25:01] <LawrenceG> you need to find a local metal supplier so shipping doesnt kill you
[05:25:45] <JymmmEMC> but poles alone dont have the gye rings
[05:26:23] <LawrenceG> no.. need to drill and put in eye bolts
[05:28:01] <LawrenceG> http://www.mgs4u.com/fiberglass-push-up-mast.htm 43' fiberglass
[05:29:34] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC, those look very nice
[05:30:11] <fenn> can you get one with a CO2 cartidge to shoot it straight up?
[05:34:49] <JymmmEMC> I wonder how much interferance will I get by tossing on a a dual band 144/440 antenna on there too?
[07:07:58] <tomp> telescoping tensegrity uses short poles and wires to make mast ( tighten the wires to make it rise and get strong ) http://www.techbriefs.com/component/content/article/1824
[07:11:46] <tomp> fenn: found along the way, letters from Bucky http://www/alumnos.unicaan.es/uc1279/Appendix A.pdf ( about tensegrities and Buckminster Fuller )
[07:15:54] <tomp> good example of the tensegrity mast http://www.grunch.net/snelson/index.html
[07:27:45] <tomp> http://complexity.xozzox.de/tensegrity.html a tensegrity is a 3D structure of made sticks tied together with string. BUT no sticks touch each other They can be light , big, and very strong because they can 'shed' forces :) (very crude definition)
[09:25:59] <tomp> all the driver errors on these yaskawas that said 'replace driver' were becasue the factory used the spiffy plug in terminals, "no tools required". but it fixed everything after i stripped the wire ends and re-inserted ;)
[10:06:10] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[10:14:25] <micges> good morning
[10:20:37] <piasdom> can changing from serial port to dvi port make a differance in my latency ? (video card has both)
[10:30:18] <micges> I don't think so
[10:30:30] <micges> but I didn't check it
[10:31:41] <piasdom> guess i'll try .... brb
[10:45:32] <alex_joni> hopefully VGA, not serial..
[10:48:23] <JymmmEMC> guarnteed VGA! I'm the only one that has a monochrome/paraport card that I know of.
[10:51:05] <JymmmEMC> while both used db9, I think the genders were reversed between serial/monochrome iirc.
[10:52:21] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: maybe for a terminal..
[10:52:31] <alex_joni> http://juve.ro/blog/projects/01234343101
[10:54:54] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: Take out the FDD, it'll make it MUCH faster =)
[10:59:17] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: why didn't you install x64?
[11:03:23] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: dunno.. had an i386 around, started with that
[11:03:34] <alex_joni> and I wanted to put/compile some emc2 packages on it
[11:04:04] <JymmmEMC> Well, even the scsi card is 64bit =)
[11:04:22] <alex_joni> I might, if I decide to use it for something
[11:04:30] <alex_joni> for now it went back into his powerless rack
[11:04:57] <JymmmEMC> just toss in a 64bit cd and remote console into it
[11:05:25] <alex_joni> LiveCD doesn't work
[11:05:40] <alex_joni> and the whole rack is not near a power socket ;)
[11:05:40] <JymmmEMC> try CentOS
[11:05:48] <alex_joni> one day maybe
[11:05:49] <JymmmEMC> grab an ext cord
[11:07:15] <alex_joni> whoa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPGs2esvYic
[11:07:16] <JymmmEMC> why are you giving up on it?
[11:07:30] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: not giving up, just no need for it now
[11:07:43] <JymmmEMC> liar ;)
[11:07:56] <alex_joni> my main server:
[11:08:02] <alex_joni> root@main:~# uptime
[11:08:03] <alex_joni> 13:07:56 up 82 days, 8:56, 1 user, load average: 0.13, 0.11, 0.09
[11:08:22] <alex_joni> model name : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8400 @ 3.00GHz
[11:08:40] <alex_joni> root@main:~# df -h
[11:08:40] <alex_joni> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
[11:08:45] <alex_joni> /dev/md0 463G 85G 355G 20% /home
[11:09:08] <JymmmEMC> $ uptime
[11:09:08] <JymmmEMC> 03:08:31 up 107 days, 1:16, 1 user, load average: 0.10, 0.03, 0.01
[11:09:39] <alex_joni> yup.. both hardly used :D
[11:09:49] <JymmmEMC> and only a p3 too!
[11:10:29] <alex_joni> my router is an Amd Duron 700
[11:10:40] <alex_joni> juve@proxy:~$ uptime
[11:10:40] <alex_joni> 13:09:25 up 51 days, 4:13, 1 user, load average: 0.03, 0.04, 0.01
[11:10:45] <JymmmEMC> mine is a 486SX/25
[11:10:58] <JymmmEMC> MS-DOS 6.22
[11:11:07] <alex_joni> so.. no real need for the 2 x (4 x Xeon)
[11:11:24] <alex_joni> MS-DOS for routing?
[11:11:34] <JymmmEMC> sure and firewall too
[11:11:43] <alex_joni> * alex_joni swallows a remark ;)
[11:11:50] <alex_joni> whatever rocks your boat, I guess
[11:11:50] <JymmmEMC> go ahead
[11:11:57] <alex_joni> nah.. just kidding
[11:12:00] <alex_joni> if it works, why not
[11:12:11] <JymmmEMC> it runs off of a fdd, and once it boots you can remove the fdd
[11:12:12] <alex_joni> I'm sure no-one targets ms-dos systems nowadays
[11:12:35] <JymmmEMC> takes only 8mb ram
[11:13:05] <JymmmEMC> Yeah, kinda hard to hack packet drivers =)
[11:13:40] <JymmmEMC> Well, i don't run it anymore, but did for 3 years.
[11:13:54] <alex_joni> nice
[11:14:18] <alex_joni> I might use one of these servers at home, but it's a bit of a resource hog
[11:14:22] <JymmmEMC> I could tell when someone was port scanning as I'd hear the hdd logging it
[11:14:59] <JymmmEMC> has telnet, ftp, and ipsec encryption between routers
[11:15:23] <JymmmEMC> not bad for all running off of a single 1.44MB fdd
[11:15:41] <alex_joni> yup
[11:15:57] <JymmmEMC> and could even bond multiple modems together too
[11:16:21] <JymmmEMC> as a dialup backup line
[12:22:08] <alex_joni> * alex_joni listens to Meiko Kaji
[12:22:11] <alex_joni> nice stuff
[13:36:31] <piasdom> been looking for a matrox video adapter and all i can find are over 200.00...any suggestions ?
[13:37:16] <piasdom> i got a gforce with nvidia and i'm still having latancy trouble
[13:38:13] <piasdom> someone suggested matrox
[13:43:23] <eric_unterhausen> you probably need to find something used
[13:44:31] <piasdom> don;t think the company will buy from ebay :)
[13:44:52] <piasdom> but i can try
[13:59:14] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[14:47:19] <shrdlu-> anyone have any tips on how I can trigger my spindle (pwm laser) at selected coords without having to make the motor stop at a point?
[14:47:29] <shrdlu-> I want to scan the head from one end to another, raster fashion
[14:47:53] <shrdlu-> but if I put in a midway coord, then tell the spindle to fire, then end end coord
[14:47:56] <shrdlu-> the motor slows
[14:48:59] <shrdlu-> I'd like to keep the motor passes fluid with coordinated spindle pulses in the right places
[15:01:37] <shrdlu-> I don't think I'm going to get my orders out again today :/
[15:01:58] <shrdlu-> stupid fking dongle protected laser software
[15:05:19] <tomp> ah, you want to turn on the beam 'on the fly'. theres been some discussion here in the last 2 months about similar, i ont know therreult or how you should search, but http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/ has logs of this irc
[15:06:27] <tomp> one of the devs had a small gantry, whose frame was made of som dense plastic. anyone know an url to the mfctr?
[15:06:29] <shrdlu-> hokay, thanks
[15:06:58] <cradek> tomp: it's a "zenbot"
[15:07:11] <tomp> oh thanks!
[15:13:54] <jepler> tomp: ebay seller "zenbotcnc"
[15:14:40] <tomp> oooh its a "subtractive rapid prototyping machine"
[15:14:42] <jepler> I have one of his older (screw-driven) models. his current models are all belt-driven which gives much lower resolution but higher speeds
[15:15:11] <tomp> yeh hes sez 1000"/min, means mS to limits
[15:15:55] <tomp> i wanted to compare to a all aluminum job i se here in taiwan at the catholic university
[15:16:02] <skunkworks> would a motion synced digital i/o on each gcode line not slow things down? http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/gcode_main.html#sec:M62-to-M65:
[15:16:23] <skunkworks> oops - never nind
[15:16:40] <skunkworks> I thought they where realtime..
[15:17:01] <alex_joni> they should be realtime
[15:17:21] <skunkworks> These outputs are not changed in realtime and thus should not be used for timing-critical applications.
[15:18:04] <tomp> it'd be nice, a realtime 'hi-speed output' synced with position is a high ollar option on commercial controls ( and you get just one)
[15:18:34] <alex_joni> skunkworks: that's wrong then
[15:18:48] <alex_joni> I wonder who wrote that :)
[15:19:02] <skunkworks> ok - I thought I remember the whole idea of the m62-65 was for realtime control
[15:20:39] <alex_joni> they are changed in realtime
[15:20:45] <alex_joni> but.. they are not synced to motion
[15:20:58] <alex_joni> tomp: we have many
[15:21:00] <shrdlu-> I can't find anything about independent on the fly spindle control in the logs :/
[15:21:07] <tomp> haha real-some-time
[15:21:38] <shrdlu-> If I cut out the M3 codes but keep the G1 steps, it runs smooth
[15:21:51] <shrdlu-> but with the spindle being toggled, it seizes
[15:21:56] <shrdlu-> err, slows
[15:21:57] <tomp> alex_joni: nice, what brand?
[15:22:17] <tomp> shrdlu-: sorry, maybe someone here remembers
[15:22:25] <alex_joni> tomp: I meant digital IOs in emc2
[15:22:31] <tomp> oh
[15:22:37] <cradek> alex_joni: you know you want to fix that...
[15:22:44] <alex_joni> cradek: I do
[15:22:55] <alex_joni> but it involves messing with the TP
[15:22:58] <cradek> a little voice whispers "do it..."
[15:23:00] <alex_joni> and I know I don't want to do that
[15:23:17] <cradek> a little voice whispers "do it... you know you want to"
[15:23:24] <cradek> ok, it's actually me saying that
[15:23:35] <alex_joni> heh, well if you want to jump in with the TP part :)
[15:23:55] <tomp> fanuc calls it 'high speed interrupt' for inputs, sync something for outs
[15:24:04] <alex_joni> basicly they need to end up in the TC? queue, and get triggered when blending is halfway through
[15:24:35] <cradek> there is a block of stuff that happens at the halfway point. you'd just add your code there.
[15:24:59] <alex_joni> hmm.. ok, let me boot a hardy box
[15:25:07] <alex_joni> I'll poke you for pointers then
[15:25:36] <cradek> remember, you'll have to do it on a branch
[15:29:29] <alex_joni> it's a bugfix
[15:30:51] <skunkworks> hmmm - good call ;)
[15:39:57] <shrdlu-> are there spindle acceleration settings?
[15:40:35] <cradek> the motion controller just outputs the commanded spindle speed. what you do with it after that is up to you.
[15:41:00] <cradek> if you want to limit its rate of change in various ways you could use the limit* hal components
[15:41:17] <tomp> i think not, becuz not closed loop. you could make a sorty of speed loop control in hal tho
[15:41:52] <shrdlu-> I want it to be either on or off, but it seems like whenever I engage the spindle, the motor for the x axis slows
[15:42:12] <shrdlu-> I thought it might be 'warming up' the spindle or something
[15:42:22] <shrdlu-> winding up
[15:42:26] <tomp> hmm, sounds like the X axis sucks ( the power down ;)
[15:42:56] <shrdlu-> there's no power required for the spindle, it's not a motor, just a switch
[15:43:01] <shrdlu-> well, little power
[15:50:45] <tomp> can the spindle be powered from a separate outlet from the axis supply? no electrical interconnection?
[15:55:21] <shrdlu-> hmm, I could just unplug the spindle I guess
[15:55:24] <shrdlu-> to test it
[15:56:09] <shrdlu-> no difference.
[15:56:36] <shrdlu-> it's something to do with the way the commands are synchronized, by the looks of it
[15:56:55] <shrdlu-> the spindle is really just routing the parallel out signal
[15:57:44] <shrdlu-> I see talk of 'synchronized I/O' in the logs
[15:58:14] <tomp> so, sevral commands are going to the X axis when you see this or a single command is being executed
[15:58:31] <tomp> yes 'sync i/o ' is the buzword to look for
[15:59:24] <shrdlu-> two at once, a coord and a 'spindle on'
[16:00:57] <tomp> i meant, was it like X+100 at a slowish rate, and you toggle the spindle on an off inside that time? and observe the x axis go faster/slower/faster?
[16:02:44] <tomp> or is it noticable at the beginnings of one/several of the 'coord and a spinde on' command?
[16:03:18] <shrdlu-> beginning and end I think, let me show you the code. sonly like 10 lines
[16:03:36] <tomp> pastebin.ca
[16:03:54] <shrdlu-> http://pastebin.com/d3befd3d4
[16:04:52] <tomp> got it, are both M3 and M5 causing the observation?
[16:05:04] <shrdlu-> yep
[16:07:16] <tomp> and if al the X an XY motions were replaced by Y ony, woul it go away?
[16:09:49] <shrdlu-> same deal
[16:13:06] <tomp> ok, try original code with <8000F and <1000S ( try 800F and 100F) to eliminate that your' overburdening something. past that i have even less of a clue, sorry
[16:13:22] <tomp> 100>S<
[16:18:11] <shrdlu-> I dropped the speed of both down, it still bumps when both starting and stopping
[16:18:17] <shrdlu-> the spindle
[16:19:25] <piasdom> can someone tell me if i'm useing a pci or agp slot for my video from this? http://pastebin.com/d77387130
[16:19:59] <SWPadnos> nope
[16:20:09] <SWPadnos> it says PCI:1:0:0 as the slot number
[16:20:17] <SWPadnos> but that's a configuration file, not a log file
[16:20:25] <SWPadnos> try lspci
[16:22:23] <piasdom> k
[16:24:07] <eric_unterhausen> lspci -vv |more
[16:24:22] <piasdom> better ? http://pastebin.com/d7187616d
[16:24:22] <shrdlu-> godamnit. another order just came in
[16:24:26] <shrdlu-> * shrdlu- cries
[16:24:42] <piasdom> eris_unterhausen: ok
[16:28:07] <piasdom> http://pastebin.com/d33a50200
[16:28:49] <eric_unterhausen> they need a -no_bs switch on lspci
[16:29:08] <piasdom> ok
[16:29:15] <eric_unterhausen> that was a joke
[16:29:35] <piasdom> was thinking about that bs :)
[16:34:47] <tomp> shrdlu-: hang in there, ordders is a good thing, and the devs here are working on improving emc all the time.
[16:53:05] <shrdlu-> "I have done that too, but the problem with using the spindle is that the
[16:53:05] <shrdlu-> system stutters when the spindle speed changes. Using Z allows smoothly
[16:53:05] <shrdlu-> changing laser power on the fly."
[16:53:07] <shrdlu-> moo
[17:10:35] <piasdom> i did lspci with sudo and got this http://pastebin.com/d3f9fdbd6
[17:11:00] <eric_unterhausen> I forgot to mention you might want to do that
[17:11:08] <piasdom> put doesn't this just show what is available and not what it is actually useing ?
[17:11:30] <eric_unterhausen> I think the leading number will tell you what bus it's on
[17:12:39] <shrdlu-> seb_kuzminsky, you're not lurking by any chance are you?
[17:13:23] <piasdom> ok..in the xorg.conf it says pci 01:00.0 shouldn't say agp ?
[17:13:34] <seb_kuzminsky> * seb_kuzminsky unlurks
[17:13:40] <shrdlu-> hi
[17:13:48] <seb_kuzminsky> hi shrdlu-
[17:14:23] <shrdlu-> I was just reading a post by you in regards to smoothing the pwm output to a laser, so it doesn't jump when you turn the beam on and off?
[17:14:40] <shrdlu-> something about spindle-speed-out as an input
[17:14:41] <seb_kuzminsky> hmm
[17:14:50] <shrdlu-> http://www.mailinglistarchive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg03305.html
[17:14:51] <shrdlu-> that
[17:15:04] <seb_kuzminsky> reading...
[17:15:46] <seb_kuzminsky> oh yeah
[17:16:06] <seb_kuzminsky> eric's laser power stuff
[17:16:24] <shrdlu-> you have stuff?
[17:16:35] <shrdlu-> I have the same problem as that guy
[17:16:36] <alex_joni> there are more than one eric
[17:16:53] <seb_kuzminsky> i dont have a laser machine or any other kind of cnc machine yet :-(
[17:17:03] <seb_kuzminsky> but i have some hostmot2 hardware on a workbench
[17:17:34] <seb_kuzminsky> eric johnson had a couple of problems that we talked about, which problem do you have?
[17:18:06] <shrdlu-> I have the problem where when I start and stop the laser, the motor jumps
[17:18:17] <shrdlu-> this is controlled by M3 PWM spindle output
[17:18:38] <shrdlu-> I could really do with some pointers on how to get that smooth
[17:19:21] <shrdlu-> ack, I dont like the way this client puts all successive lines in one paragraph
[17:19:46] <seb_kuzminsky> your laser is controlled by a hostmot2 pwmgen, which is connected to emc2 as a Z axis?
[17:20:48] <shrdlu-> oh, no. My laser has some kind of isolated 5v laser trigger built in. So I'm just outputting the spindle signal from the lpt directly into that
[17:21:00] <seb_kuzminsky> oh ok
[17:21:02] <shrdlu-> it fires pretty well
[17:21:30] <shrdlu-> it's not noticable when vector cutting
[17:21:41] <seb_kuzminsky> i think the issue we discussed in the email thread you linked to was this:
[17:22:04] <seb_kuzminsky> emc2 does not try to control spindle accelleration, only spindle speed
[17:22:22] <shrdlu-> ok
[17:22:32] <shrdlu-> what does that translate to?
[17:23:13] <seb_kuzminsky> when you command a certain spindle speed (in the absence of spindle speed feedback), that makes emc output a certain pwm duty cycle
[17:23:15] <SWPadnos> emc2 outputs a number which is the expected spindle speed
[17:23:28] <SWPadnos> if you want to control acceleration or use feedback, you can do that in HAL
[17:23:41] <SWPadnos> using a limit2/limit3 block, and/or PID
[17:23:45] <seb_kuzminsky> there's no attempt to make a smooth transition from the current spindle speed to the commanded spindle speed
[17:23:49] <seb_kuzminsky> right
[17:23:58] <SWPadnos> not from the motion/IO controller
[17:24:06] <shrdlu-> but how does that effect the x motor?
[17:24:13] <SWPadnos> it doesn't
[17:24:17] <seb_kuzminsky> it shouldnt :-)
[17:24:40] <alex_joni> it doesn't
[17:24:47] <shrdlu-> my problem is that the x motor 'jumps' when I turn the laser on and off
[17:25:05] <seb_kuzminsky> how is your motor connected to emc2? what kind of motor is it?
[17:25:38] <shrdlu-> stepper, via some cheap ta8435h based driver
[17:25:55] <seb_kuzminsky> use an oscilloscope look for spindle-control electrical noise on the step/dir lines
[17:26:21] <shrdlu-> this is the same problem the guy is describing in the post
[17:26:29] <shrdlu-> which is why he resorted to using the x axis
[17:26:34] <shrdlu-> err
[17:26:35] <seb_kuzminsky> and/or use halscope to look at what emc2 tells the x motor at the time it starts/stops the laser
[17:26:36] <shrdlu-> z axis
[17:26:41] <SWPadnos> it only happens to X, not Y? (even if both are moving?)
[17:26:47] <shrdlu-> both
[17:26:56] <SWPadnos> ok
[17:27:56] <shrdlu-> "I have done that too, but the problem with using the spindle is that the
[17:27:56] <shrdlu-> system stutters when the spindle speed changes."
[17:28:09] <shrdlu-> is he talking about operating system or motors?
[17:28:24] <SWPadnos> motors
[17:28:25] <skunkworks> sounds like spindle speed changes effect the motion - like puts it into exact stop
[17:28:26] <seb_kuzminsky> surely the motors are what stutters, not the os
[17:28:38] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, I was thinking along those lines
[17:29:01] <skunkworks> that is why they went to using the z axis for laser power.
[17:29:10] <SWPadnos> changing the spindle mode may be the culprit
[17:29:18] <seb_kuzminsky> jmk suggested some debugging tests to try to figure out what was causing it, but we never heard back from ehj with the results
[17:29:28] <SWPadnos> what happens if you use only the S word, not M3/M5?
[17:29:45] <SWPadnos> you can set S0 if you want no power
[17:30:00] <shrdlu-> same for both
[17:30:09] <SWPadnos> ok
[17:30:51] <shrdlu-> I've tried various PWM values, same
[17:31:20] <alex_joni> shrdlu-: can you turn the laser on/off by hand?
[17:31:30] <shrdlu-> yeah
[17:31:40] <alex_joni> maybe you can try that while emc2 is moving, and see if it causes any problems with the movement
[17:31:41] <shrdlu-> let me try that
[17:32:37] <seb_kuzminsky> alex_joni: are you thinking electrical noise from the laser in the step/dir control lines?
[17:32:43] <alex_joni> yup
[17:33:13] <shrdlu-> it's smooth if I manually fire it
[17:33:16] <seb_kuzminsky> if this test doesnt show the problem, it doesnt prove it's not noise, it depends on where the noise leak is
[17:33:36] <seb_kuzminsky> i still say halscope emc2's idea of the control lines
[17:33:36] <alex_joni> shrdlu-: try running the same program with all the S words removed
[17:33:47] <alex_joni> but put G61 at the beginning of the file
[17:33:50] <seb_kuzminsky> that'll say if it's software or hardware
[17:34:08] <alex_joni> seb_kuzminsky: I suspect the "stuttering" might be exact stop
[17:34:22] <alex_joni> or no-blending because of S-words
[17:34:38] <seb_kuzminsky> gotcha
[17:35:45] <shrdlu-> I kept the M3 and M5 deleted the S words, put G61 at the start, samer
[17:35:47] <shrdlu-> -r
[17:35:54] <alex_joni> same stuttering?
[17:35:55] <shrdlu-> I'll look at the halscope
[17:36:03] <seb_kuzminsky> you think if a g-code feed command has an S word, it stops at the start of the move until the spindle speed is right?
[17:36:04] <shrdlu-> yep, exactly the same stuttering
[17:36:05] <alex_joni> that means it's not an actual stuttering
[17:36:15] <alex_joni> it's moving in exact-stop more
[17:36:16] <alex_joni> mode
[17:36:17] <seb_kuzminsky> that seems like a reasonable thing for the controller to do
[17:36:23] <alex_joni> stopping at the end of each move
[17:36:38] <alex_joni> shrdlu-: currently there's no way I can think of you can fix that
[17:36:44] <alex_joni> besides using Z for laser power
[17:36:53] <alex_joni> or A,B,C,U,V,W if you don't want Z
[17:37:03] <shrdlu-> alright, that is helpful. Thankyou
[17:41:05] <shrdlu-> so err, how do I set that up?
[17:41:17] <shrdlu-> is there a kind to that kind of thing?
[17:41:31] <shrdlu-> I can work the code out, I think
[17:41:35] <alex_joni> yes, you need to be kind to it :)
[17:42:22] <shrdlu-> opps
[17:42:32] <shrdlu-> heh, somehow kind = guide
[17:42:47] <shrdlu-> I probably shouldn't read other things while I type
[17:43:17] <shrdlu-> erm
[17:43:26] <shrdlu-> nm
[17:43:29] <seb_kuzminsky> i think you set it up as a normal servo Z axis, except for short-circuiting the feedback
[17:44:05] <shrdlu-> hokay, hm, servo huh.
[17:44:26] <alex_joni> seb_kuzminsky: you need to have the feedback short-circuited
[17:44:31] <alex_joni> else emc2 will ferror
[17:44:41] <shrdlu-> physically?
[17:44:49] <alex_joni> no.. in HAL
[17:44:55] <shrdlu-> ok
[17:45:16] <alex_joni> shrdlu-: you should be able to look at some of the example sim machines
[17:45:27] <alex_joni> (the ones without stepper connections, like sim/axis.ini)
[17:45:42] <jymm> [HAL9000] Hello Dave
[17:45:44] <shrdlu-> I've only used stepconf before, but I'll look
[17:46:00] <alex_joni> there's a core_sim.hal
[17:46:33] <alex_joni> basicly you only need a feedback called: net Zpos axis.2.motor-pos-cmd => axis.2.motor-pos-fb
[17:46:52] <alex_joni> that shortcircuits the Z axis (the commanded position is used as the feedback position), so emc2 is happy
[17:47:07] <alex_joni> next you use that Zpos to link to your laser power
[17:47:11] <alex_joni> probably to a pwmgen
[17:48:05] <shrdlu-> ok
[17:48:09] <shrdlu-> * shrdlu- looks
[17:49:48] <alex_joni> shrdlu-: this won't be possible with stepconf
[17:50:02] <shrdlu-> right
[17:50:06] <alex_joni> so you need to read/learn a bit about how to set up the machine up yourself
[17:50:16] <alex_joni> and about HAL, what it is, how to use it, etc
[17:50:54] <shrdlu-> can I still use my same setup files though? add to them?
[17:51:00] <seb_kuzminsky> shrdlu-: yes
[17:51:04] <shrdlu-> k
[17:51:15] <seb_kuzminsky> just be careful if you rerun stepconf later, i think it'll overwrite any changes you made by hand
[17:51:22] <alex_joni> yes, seb_kuzminsky is correct
[17:51:32] <shrdlu-> yah, I noticed that
[17:51:37] <seb_kuzminsky> heh
[17:51:37] <alex_joni> make a copy of them, put it in a different folder, and remove the .stepconf file
[17:52:16] <alex_joni> hmm.. a copy of the dir should take care of the issue
[17:52:31] <alex_joni> the foo.stepconf file related to foo/ as the config dir
[18:59:43] <fenn> you'll need to change the [TRAJ] MAX_* values
[19:00:01] <fenn> to a zillion
[19:05:03] <motioncontrol> Good evening at all.One question.in cvs version the signal spindle rotation ok is implementated or no.because when the emc read line m3 s1000 fast read next line.i in spindle.speed-in pass the real velocyti encoder, but the wait the spindle at revolution ok no fuction.because
[19:08:25] <cradek> are you asking whether the cvs trunk version waits for the spindle to accelerate to the programmed speed before continuing on to the programmed motion?
[19:08:47] <motioncontrol> yes
[19:09:06] <cradek> yes it waits for motion.spindle-at-speed to become true
[19:09:44] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config_emc2hal.html
[19:10:09] <cradek> see the motion.spindle-at-speed section
[19:11:33] <motioncontrol> the signal motion.spindle-at-speed in my case is true.this signal is a input , i can change in false?
[19:12:06] <cradek> yes it is an input
[19:12:26] <cradek> it could come from your spindle VFD, or you could use the "near" component
[19:12:41] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man9/near.9.html
[19:13:03] <motioncontrol> ok for wait revolution ok the set = false?
[19:13:21] <cradek> yes if it is false, motion will not continue until it is true
[19:13:35] <cradek> at the times described in the docs
[19:13:45] <motioncontrol> ok thanks
[19:14:37] <motioncontrol> cradek excuse because in axis interface in menù file the line editing tool not is possible select?
[19:15:18] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui_axis.html#r1_11_5
[19:15:47] <cradek> you need to configure an external editor for File/Edit and File/Edit Tool Table to be enabled
[19:16:11] <motioncontrol> ok very thanks
[19:16:19] <cradek> welcome
[19:16:41] <skunkworks> motioncontrol: you seem to be coming right along. Nice work. How do you like emc? Do you have any pictures of your project?
[19:17:19] <motioncontrol> excuse another question. more cnc use the spindle in C axis configuration.The C axis can positioning in degrees position.Is possible whith emc?
[19:18:16] <cradek> it is possible, but you will need to have the hardware to disconnect the spindle from the spindle motor and connect it to the C axis servo motor
[19:18:38] <cradek> I think it would not be easy to do this
[19:19:11] <motioncontrol> excuse i have implementation on my analog spindle the index search with tristate component
[19:19:17] <motioncontrol> wait i write
[19:19:58] <motioncontrol> i load in pid.3.command = 0 for search index position
[19:21:10] <motioncontrol> if i load the degrees position in pid.3.command = 180° the spindle i thing rotation at 180° or 180 count?
[19:21:29] <cradek> yes it seems possible
[19:22:11] <motioncontrol> ok tomorrow i prove on my machine.today i prove the tool change an magazine whith success
[19:22:26] <alex_joni> depends how you have pid units set up
[19:22:42] <alex_joni> if it's in machine units, then 180 probably corresponds to 180 degrees
[19:22:57] <shrdlu-> Is there any easy way to setup this zaxis servo thing to fire my laser? I'm wincing at the thought of having to spend many hours learning all the details
[19:23:27] <shrdlu-> I wonder if that hjohnson guy would send me his settings
[19:23:31] <cradek> wince wince
[19:23:38] <alex_joni> heh
[19:23:49] <alex_joni> shrdlu-: the only other way is getting someone else to do it for you
[19:23:50] <motioncontrol> ok alex
[19:23:53] <alex_joni> luckily I'm off to bed :D
[19:24:00] <cradek> I wince that you don't care to understand how to make your system work yourself
[19:24:14] <cradek> oops, that was an inside-thought
[19:24:30] <shrdlu-> I have to have this working by about 12pm tomorrow
[19:24:40] <shrdlu-> and it's 8 now, here
[19:24:55] <shrdlu-> I can't afford to spend days
[19:24:58] <cradek> ouch
[19:25:26] <shrdlu-> I'd already calibrated the spindle PWM :/
[19:25:43] <shrdlu-> wouldn't it be wise to put that in the docs somewhere?
[19:25:52] <shrdlu-> 'you can't run a laser off the spindle'
[19:26:19] <cradek> sorta, but it would be hard to document each thing someone might try to do that wouldn't work
[19:26:46] <alex_joni> shrdlu-: actually you can
[19:26:53] <alex_joni> and you have proved that you can
[19:27:08] <shrdlu-> 'smoothly'
[19:27:11] <alex_joni> the issue is not about the laser not working, it's that you don't like G61 (or exact stop)
[19:27:30] <alex_joni> shrdlu-: if you have lower accel it will probably reduce the problem
[19:27:35] <piasdom> where is the help file?..not about to use in mini ..i see where to put the path in ini
[19:28:03] <shrdlu-> lower accel is going to burn holes in things
[19:28:11] <alex_joni> shrdlu-: probably so
[19:28:26] <alex_joni> ok.. off to bed for me
[19:28:30] <shrdlu-> unless you compensate for it with PWM or something
[19:28:33] <alex_joni> shrdlu-: hope you figure it out
[19:28:36] <alex_joni> good night all
[19:28:37] <shrdlu-> thanks
[19:28:43] <cradek> goodnight
[19:28:51] <shrdlu-> night
[19:28:51] <alex_joni> night cradek
[19:29:35] <piasdom> where is the help file?..not able to use in mini ..i see where to put the path in ini
[19:38:01] <motioncontrol> is possible start one preconfigurated maschine at start.normaly i write ./emc and after open the window for select configuration . is possible write ./emc m5i20 and open only m5i20 configuration?
[19:38:32] <cradek> motioncontrol: man emc
[19:39:36] <motioncontrol> ok i search info.thanks cradek for help
[19:40:16] <cradek> or http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man1/emc.1.html
[19:41:37] <motioncontrol> more gentile
[19:42:49] <shrdlu-> if my stopping problem is caused by G61 waiting for the spindle, can't I just turn it off?
[19:42:58] <shrdlu-> I'm not using G61, where is that coming from?
[19:43:07] <cradek> no
[19:43:18] <cradek> motion stops for I/O such as spindle and coolant control
[19:43:34] <cradek> so you need to use motion, which is why so many people have used Z position for this
[19:44:25] <shrdlu-> oh. :(
[19:44:49] <shrdlu-> how does it know how long to wait?
[19:45:34] <cradek> the time it waits is not guaranteed because it takes place outside of realtime
[19:45:55] <fenn> does it actually stop? i guess i could test on sim w/halscope
[19:46:11] <cradek> yes I'm sure it actually stops
[19:47:19] <shrdlu-> " so you need to use motion" does that mean I can get past this in code somehow?
[19:47:47] <shrdlu-> I don't care what code i use. I'm writing a custom generator and it's very simple
[19:51:12] <fenn> he means you have to use an axis instead of i/o such as spindle or m-codes
[19:51:28] <shrdlu-> oh
[19:53:52] <shrdlu-> oh god, this all looks obscenely complex
[19:55:23] <fenn> what are you doing now?
[19:55:50] <shrdlu-> I'm trying to do the axis thing
[19:56:03] <shrdlu-> I've never used a servo, I've no idea what any of this means
[19:57:01] <fenn> so you're editing hal right? basically you need to do something like net Zpos axis.2.motor-pos-cmd axis.2.motor-pos-fb
[19:57:10] <fenn> and then net Zpos your.io.device
[19:58:14] <fenn> except you probably want to use some other axis like W, so change 2 to 8
[19:58:18] <shrdlu-> what do I look at to tell me what you just said means?
[19:58:49] <shrdlu-> I'm 10 pages into google and I see nothing accessible about servos and emc
[19:58:55] <shrdlu-> to a novice
[19:59:09] <fenn> you dont need to know anything about servos
[19:59:19] <fenn> you're just hooking up signals in HAL
[19:59:31] <shrdlu-> oh
[19:59:52] <shrdlu-> so if I have an existing stepconf steup, where do I add those commands?
[20:00:08] <fenn> in custom.hal
[20:00:24] <fenn> (i think, i've never used stepconf)
[20:00:51] <skunkworks> fenn: did you get a chance to commit your hexapod fix?
[20:01:06] <fenn> skunkworks: yes
[20:01:14] <fenn> skunkworks: the kinematics are still off though
[20:01:57] <skunkworks> ok
[20:02:32] <fenn> shrdlu-: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_basic_hal.html#r1_1_4
[20:02:52] <shrdlu-> thanks
[20:03:47] <fenn> sigh.. when will people learn that jamming the gas pedal to the floor isn't the way to get unstuck from the mud
[20:04:12] <cradek> don't you know that's the go-faster pedal?
[20:04:17] <cradek> it works on ice and snow too
[20:07:52] <fenn> skunkworks: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/mismatched-kins.png any guesses why vismach and emc don't agree on the strut length?
[20:08:25] <motioncontrol> excuse.is possible display the Spindle axis position on DRO or axis_plot ?
[20:08:58] <fenn> motioncontrol: spindle is not an axis, perhaps you want to use one of the rotary axes, A B or C
[20:09:52] <motioncontrol> when i closed the pid on the spindle the spindle is a axis degrees
[20:10:46] <motioncontrol> one more cnc the spindle in velocity mode is spindle in position mode is C axis
[20:12:56] <fenn> um, i guess you could use a mux2 in hal to switch between the two modes
[20:13:02] <fenn> but it seems like a bad idea
[20:15:31] <motioncontrol> i swith with mux2 componet the spindle or the c axis and fuction, but the position encoder on axis blackpot or Dro windows not is displayed
[20:16:10] <motioncontrol> you thing is necessary declare in ini file s axis?
[20:21:08] <fenn> C axis
[20:21:26] <fenn> look at COORDINATES line
[20:22:19] <fenn> then you need to copy stuff for [AXIS_5]
[20:23:34] <motioncontrol> but the 5 axis is x-y-z-a-b-c not s axis
[20:23:51] <motioncontrol> excuse x-y-z-a-b
[20:24:21] <SWPadnos> there is no S Axis
[20:24:42] <SWPadnos> there is S for spindle speed in G-code, but there is no S axis that can be used for coordinated motion
[20:24:48] <motioncontrol> ok i can call c axis
[20:25:03] <SWPadnos> C is the correct name for the axis anyway
[20:25:37] <SWPadnos> the problem isn't what to call it, it's how to change from velocity mode (for hte spindle) to coordinated positioning mode
[20:26:27] <SWPadnos> that is not an easy problem, and I don't know if anyone has solved it yet
[20:26:37] <motioncontrol> ok if i write i alf pid.3 feedback in => pid.4.feedback the pid.4.feedback is c axis displayed
[20:26:58] <SWPadnos> that's another thing, displaying the spindle speed instead of position
[20:27:33] <SWPadnos> you will need separate indicators for speed and position, since the "C" axis position can't change when in velocity mode
[20:27:39] <SWPadnos> if it did, you would get a following error
[20:27:52] <fenn> SWPadnos: couldnt you just short-circuit the feedback pin for whatever mode is "off"?
[20:28:08] <SWPadnos> yes, with several muxes
[20:28:17] <SWPadnos> for both command and feedback
[20:28:19] <fenn> DPDT mux :P
[20:30:08] <motioncontrol> in more cnc when i command the m3 s1000 the spindle command in velocity mode and on the screen the cnc the count encoder the c axis = spindle increase fast 0-360°.when i write spos=180 the spindle change in position mode and the axis search index and position at 180° from at index
[20:31:31] <SWPadnos> EMC doesn't do that
[20:32:07] <motioncontrol> i thing is important point in future version
[20:34:05] <motioncontrol> emc can do it , emc not can only display the encoder spindle position
[20:36:01] <seb_kuzminsky> sounds a bit like tormach's duality lathe:
[20:36:03] <seb_kuzminsky> http://www.tormach.com/Product_PCNC_lathe.html
[20:40:38] <SWPadnos> not quite
[20:40:47] <SWPadnos> the Duality spindle only has a speed control, nothing else
[20:40:57] <SWPadnos> it can't be used for positioning
[20:42:18] <SWPadnos> in fact, the speed control is a knob on the spindle - the only I/O used on that is a single PPR feedback
[20:43:19] <motioncontrol> SwPadnos, if i have pid.3. enable and load in pid.3.command 180 the spindle move at 180
[20:44:52] <SWPadnos> yes, if pid.3 is tuned and connected for positioning (rather than velocity)
[20:47:35] <motioncontrol> i have use in classicladder the switch for spindle in velocity gear , partprogram spindle, index marker search for tool change and the positiooning spindle
[20:50:49] <motioncontrol> i wait for dinner at after
[20:52:43] <fenn> wow that's amazingly misleading (the duality lathe)
[20:55:09] <cradek> what part?
[20:56:23] <fenn> the fact that it doesn't do angular positioning
[20:56:37] <fenn> why would you bolt a lathe to a mill table otherwise?
[20:57:08] <cradek> to make it cnc
[20:57:25] <cradek> they put a lathe tool on the mill's quill
[20:57:35] <cradek> it's a cnc lathe, not a milling indexer
[20:59:44] <seb_kuzminsky> i was misled! i should have read the not-so-fine print better...
[21:00:27] <cradek> I think it's a clever idea, but a terrible little lathe
[21:01:21] <seb_kuzminsky> looks similar to the sieg 7x lathes
[21:02:11] <cradek> same casting probably?
[21:20:47] <BigJohnT_> BigJohnT_ is now known as BigJohnT
[21:25:31] <shrdlu-> after I've setup " net zpos => parport.0.pin-1-out net zpos axis.2.motor-pos-cmd => axis.2.motor-pos-fb"
[21:26:01] <shrdlu-> where do I go from there? my laser isn't firing with z commands
[21:27:43] <skunkworks> how was the spindle doing it? where you outputing pwm to it?
[21:28:11] <shrdlu-> yep
[21:28:28] <shrdlu-> I dont need PWM at the moment though, on / off will do
[21:29:50] <shrdlu-> those are the only zaxis hal commands I've added for z
[21:30:20] <SWPadnos> those net commands shouldn't work
[21:30:38] <SWPadnos> the parallel port output is a bit, but zpos is a float
[21:31:15] <shrdlu-> oh :/
[21:31:33] <SWPadnos> to get on/off, you need a comparator. you compare zpos to a constant (like 0), and the comparator output will be 1 when the comparison is true and 0 otherwise
[21:32:09] <SWPadnos> so z-1 (or z-0.01) would turn the bit on, and z0 or anything positive would turn it off
[21:32:38] <SWPadnos> you can see an example of how to use a comparator in the sim/axis config I believe
[21:32:45] <SWPadnos> they're used to simulate limit switches
[21:32:48] <skunkworks> it would probably be easier to unhook the spindle speed to the pwmgen and hook the zpos to it.
[21:33:21] <SWPadnos> that is true
[21:33:24] <shrdlu-> and there I was thinking I was getting somewhere
[21:34:00] <SWPadnos> you are - you're learning about HAL, which is what makes all your hardware do things :)
[21:34:11] <fenn> might as well start with the "correct" way, using PWM instead of a comparator
[21:34:32] <shrdlu-> why dont those commands I was given work?
[21:34:57] <shrdlu-> why did I just waste an hour trying to work out where to put them?
[21:35:22] <SWPadnos> where did you get those commands?
[21:35:24] <skunkworks> s/waste/learned
[21:35:25] <shrdlu-> here
[21:35:27] <fenn> pwmgen type 0: A single output pin, pwm, whose duty cycle is determined by the input value for positive inputs
[21:35:45] <shrdlu-> I don't have time to learn, I have very few hours to fix this
[21:36:12] <SWPadnos> find the line that connects spindle-speed to the pwm
[21:36:18] <SWPadnos> change that line to connect zpos to the pwm
[21:36:31] <shrdlu-> hokay, lets see
[21:36:40] <SWPadnos> you will need to mess with the pwm limits (scale, min_output and max_output)
[21:36:57] <fenn> and dont forget to add the pwmgen update functions to your thread
[21:37:03] <SWPadnos> you don't want to have to program a Z1000 move to get the equivalent of S1000 :)
[21:37:19] <SWPadnos> there should already be a pwmgen there, since it was used for spindle speed before
[21:37:23] <fenn> oh
[21:39:26] <shrdlu-> I'm so totally writing a guide to this when I get it working
[21:39:30] <shrdlu-> shoot me dead if I do not
[21:39:32] <fenn> great!
[21:39:33] <zebra78> Hello, all.
[21:39:34] <SWPadnos> will do :)
[21:39:58] <zebra78> I have an emc question if anyone has a minute... I'd appreciate the advice.
[21:40:10] <SWPadnos> ask, if anyone knows, they're likely to answer
[21:40:15] <zebra78> awesome
[21:40:16] <SWPadnos> (maybe even if they (we) don't)
[21:41:15] <zebra78> The warning/error message box bugs me in emc. I'd like to clear the messagebox via my control panel rather than hitting enter on the keyboard.
[21:41:34] <SWPadnos> I wonder if that's possible
[21:41:38] <zebra78> That keeps the operator's hands near the control panel and makes everything more efficient
[21:41:46] <SWPadnos> what user interface are you using?
[21:41:56] <zebra78> tkemc currently
[21:42:07] <zebra78> I use commercial control systems at work
[21:42:10] <SWPadnos> and it pops up a window with error/status messages
[21:42:12] <SWPadnos> sure
[21:42:25] <zebra78> and they have like a message display "area" that is red/yellow depending on severity
[21:42:35] <SWPadnos> I don't think it's possible at the moment without changing the software
[21:42:38] <SWPadnos> yep, I've seen that
[21:42:43] <zebra78> they never have to be manually cleared, they clear with the PLC when the condition
[21:42:46] <zebra78> goes away.
[21:42:47] <SWPadnos> on a nice 20" touchscreen too
[21:42:51] <zebra78> heh
[21:42:53] <zebra78> yeah
[21:42:57] <zebra78> 15"
[21:43:01] <SWPadnos> wimpy! :)
[21:43:05] <zebra78> hah
[21:43:13] <SWPadnos> (this was on a $1M EDM machine)
[21:43:29] <fenn> running TkEMC?
[21:43:31] <zebra78> ok, I just wanted to see if i was missing something in the documentation
[21:43:43] <SWPadnos> no, running some Windows based control with a 20" touchscreen
[21:43:56] <SWPadnos> I don't think so
[21:43:58] <zebra78> yes, tkemc. I believe the error delivery is the same with axis, etc
[21:44:12] <skunkworks> have you looked at axis? the development version doesn't pop anymore - it is part of the preview.
[21:44:23] <SWPadnos> here's the reason why I don't think it's possible at the moment: the user interface is a separate program from the EMC IO and motion controllers
[21:44:26] <cradek> I think in tkemc you actually have to use the mouse, which is a bug as far as I'm concerned
[21:44:38] <fenn> the new axis error thing is still annoying.. they just pile up instead of scrolling off screen like a good terminal should :)
[21:44:41] <SWPadnos> and also separate from halui, which is what you'd use to talk to the physical buttons
[21:44:50] <zebra78> yeah, I gathered that it was seperate, that way it keeps it HMI independant
[21:44:52] <SWPadnos> fenn, it seems to be limited to 10
[21:44:54] <cradek> fenn: they do eventually 'scroll' (oldest are lost)
[21:45:09] <skunkworks> * skunkworks knows someone has a screenshot...
[21:45:19] <SWPadnos> so the problem is how to get one program to ask (tell) another to get rid of its error message window
[21:45:47] <zebra78> not really, I think that someday, the way errors are displayed in all of the HMI's should be looked at
[21:45:49] <SWPadnos> you could do it with some tk script I think, if you know the name/class of the message window
[21:45:51] <cradek> no, that's a proposed solution
[21:45:55] <cradek> don't get confused
[21:46:18] <fenn> cradek: ah, well it covers up 90% of the preview
[21:46:22] <SWPadnos> (I think one tk process can send messages to another, but I don't know the mechanics of it)
[21:46:33] <fenn> instead of being confined to the lower right corner
[21:46:57] <SWPadnos> it may be possible to add the function "clear messages" to axis-remote, and/or add a HAL pin to AXIS to do that
[21:47:02] <fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/axis-errors.png
[21:47:03] <SWPadnos> but that won't fix tkemc
[21:47:30] <fenn> and then you have to click 10 little X boxes to clear it
[21:47:37] <cradek> fenn: control-space
[21:47:40] <SWPadnos> apparently there's a clear all button
[21:47:45] <SWPadnos> like control-space :)
[21:47:51] <zebra78> control space?
[21:48:01] <fenn> "patently obvious" :)
[21:48:02] <zebra78> works in axis to clear those?
[21:48:06] <cradek> yes
[21:48:08] <zebra78> hmm
[21:48:19] <fenn> cradek: you should file for a software patent on ctrl-space :)
[21:48:27] <shrdlu-> net spindle-cmd <= motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value
[21:48:29] <skunkworks> * skunkworks sees the wheels turning
[21:48:31] <cradek> when you think there should be a keyboard shortcut to do something in axis, check help/quick reference, because there is
[21:48:41] <shrdlu-> so I change that? put something zedish in there?
[21:49:07] <zebra78> I am at emc 2.1.7, is the axis that has this in 2.2+?
[21:49:20] <cradek> zebra78: new in 2.3
[21:49:24] <zebra78> ahh
[21:49:33] <cradek> 2.2 still pops up a dialog I think
[21:49:34] <fenn> cradek: could i have one X button that clears all of the notifications instead?
[21:49:51] <cradek> fenn: where would it be?
[21:50:01] <skunkworks> * skunkworks tried to click on the big red x initally....
[21:50:09] <fenn> * fenn too
[21:50:27] <skunkworks> I was thinking maybe the big red x should be on the left..
[21:50:36] <cradek> too bad X means button and error both (it's a standard icon that means error)
[21:50:51] <skunkworks> * skunkworks ducks
[21:50:58] <SWPadnos> maybe we should make and use a skull-and-crossbones instead
[21:51:08] <zebra78> HAL can't issue keyboard commands (outputs) can it? I know it can get inputs from any input device...
[21:51:14] <fenn> or maybe a little picture of a machine exploding
[21:51:16] <cradek> nope
[21:51:23] <cradek> that way lies madness
[21:51:26] <SWPadnos> shrdlu-, I'd change motion.spindle-speed-out to something like axis.2.motor-pos-command
[21:52:01] <SWPadnos> zebra78, even if it could, are you sure that AXIS has focus?
[21:52:03] <skunkworks> * skunkworks hopes shrdlu- has a 3 axis setup..
[21:52:14] <zebra78> Ahh yes I see the dilemma
[21:52:23] <zebra78> or the messagebox for that matter
[21:52:29] <SWPadnos> right
[21:53:05] <shrdlu-> I have a 2 axis setup
[21:53:17] <SWPadnos> oh. you'll need to change that
[21:53:49] <shrdlu-> well, I've got the z setup via stepconf, automatically
[21:53:57] <zebra78> well, I sure do appreciate the help. This is a great product yall have here
[21:53:59] <shrdlu-> I was assuming I'd have to change stuff around
[21:54:02] <SWPadnos> oh, then you have a 3-axis config, for a 2-axis machine
[21:54:03] <skunkworks> ah - ok
[21:54:04] <SWPadnos> that's good
[21:54:15] <zebra78> thanks again!
[21:55:34] <skunkworks> hmm - doesnt the pyvcp able to run gcode.. custom mcode... maybe... :)
[21:56:08] <skunkworks> (for doing some sort of sendkey or something scary like that)
[21:56:27] <cradek> wha?
[21:56:39] <seb_kuzminsky> lol
[21:56:45] <skunkworks> no? am I thinking to abstract?
[21:57:04] <cradek> I don't know because I can't tell what you're talking about
[21:57:27] <skunkworks> a m100 mcode that runs a script to send keystrokes to axis? No?
[21:57:40] <skunkworks> just trying to think outside the box...
[21:57:42] <cradek> ah I see now
[21:57:49] <cradek> but I agree, "no"
[21:57:51] <cradek> :-)
[21:57:55] <skunkworks> heh
[21:59:14] <shrdlu-> hm, I can just hook the z direction pin up in stepconf and do the rest in code
[21:59:19] <shrdlu-> why did I not think of that
[21:59:40] <fenn> hah now there are three trucks stuck in the yard.. when will they learn
[21:59:56] <skunkworks> your yard?
[22:00:09] <fenn> the yard of the house i'm currently living in
[22:00:31] <skunkworks> yeck - popular place
[22:00:42] <fenn> i'm trying to convince them that a tow-truck is not the solution
[22:00:44] <cradek> sounds fun to watch
[22:01:12] <cradek> can you take a picture for us?
[22:01:21] <fenn> one min
[22:10:44] <fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0853.JPG http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0854.JPG http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0855.JPG http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0856.JPG
[22:11:54] <cradek> wow, haha
[22:12:10] <cradek> my expert opinion is what you really need is some more trucks
[22:12:55] <cradek> I'm surprised they're stuck - it doesn't really look that bad
[22:13:18] <fenn> it just rained like 6 inches
[22:13:27] <fenn> there's no grass or anything, just moss
[22:13:41] <cradek> but they're not sunk up to the axles/bumpers (yet!)
[22:13:51] <fenn> the gray one is working on that :0
[22:13:58] <cradek> heh, yeah I agree with you - don't bring in more trucks
[22:14:47] <cradek> the brownish one looks fine so far, it's up a little higher
[22:15:23] <cradek> (I don't know why she swallowed the fly...)
[22:15:33] <cradek> thanks for the pictures :-)
[22:15:36] <cradek> bbl.
[22:22:56] <fenn> uh oh here comes another truck :)
[22:26:47] <seb_kuzminsky> who brought the winch?
[22:27:39] <shrdlu-> I get "laserconf.hal:24: pin 'axis.2.motor-pos-command' does not exist" if I try and put that in place of the spindle-speed part in "net spindle-cmd <= motion.spindle-speed-out => pwmgen.0.value"
[22:30:49] <SWPadnos> shrdlu-, look at how the other ones are connected. it may be motor-pos-cmd or something
[22:36:09] <shrdlu-> damn, you're right. command/cmd
[22:36:18] <shrdlu-> I'm going blind
[22:39:05] <shrdlu-> what am I trying to do? What does the pos signal consist of? How does that trigger on/off?
[22:39:33] <SWPadnos> the pos signal is the position that Z should move to
[22:39:42] <SWPadnos> like 1 when you command Z1
[22:40:22] <SWPadnos> but you did have a good idea - hook the parallel port pin to the PWM direction output
[22:40:38] <SWPadnos> (if you don't want the proportional control at first)
[22:41:25] <shrdlu-> I played around with it for about 5 mins then gave up when it wasn't triggering when I wanted ;)
[22:41:32] <shrdlu-> guess that was lazy, I'll look again
[22:41:38] <shrdlu-> it did work though
[22:42:25] <shrdlu-> although the x axis did actually slow down when I triggered it, not sure why
[22:42:35] <shrdlu-> but it certainly didn't 'bump' like before
[22:42:38] <shrdlu-> just slowed a little
[22:44:04] <SWPadnos> do you have blending on?
[22:44:38] <SWPadnos> this would be one reason to use a pretty small scale change in Z to mean a large change in the laser output
[22:45:02] <shrdlu-> how do I tell that?
[22:45:04] <SWPadnos> makes blends smaller
[22:45:11] <SWPadnos> that's G64/G61
[22:45:16] <SWPadnos> you set that in your G0code
[22:45:17] <shrdlu-> ah, those guys
[22:45:19] <SWPadnos> yep :)
[23:15:15] <shrdlu-> damn, it's not really triggering smoothly
[23:15:32] <shrdlu-> well, the motion is smooth
[23:15:41] <shrdlu-> but it's not turning the laser on when I expect
[23:15:52] <SWPadnos> have you fiddled with the PWM scaling?
[23:15:56] <shrdlu-> I thought the direction pin would be able to just swap it binary style
[23:16:19] <shrdlu-> I'm just using the z axis direction output
[23:16:32] <SWPadnos> it should just toggle, but it may not be guaranteed to stay in the state you want
[23:16:55] <BigJohnT> shrdlu-: I've missed about 3/4 of this conversation but are you turning on the laser and setting the volume so to speak?
[23:16:59] <shrdlu-> hm, maybe I'll try a pull up/down
[23:17:41] <shrdlu-> yeah BigJohnT, I was trying to fire the laser from the spindle before, but it was 'hopping' whenever I fired it
[23:17:45] <shrdlu-> so swapped to z axis
[23:17:53] <SWPadnos> no, I meant that the PWM direction output may not be what you expect once Z has "reached the proper position"
[23:18:08] <shrdlu-> oh, hrm
[23:18:39] <SWPadnos> I guess it should, since the PWM would be driven from the programmed position, not from the error or some PID
[23:18:48] <SWPadnos> can you pose what you've done on pastebin?
[23:18:51] <SWPadnos> post
[23:19:17] <BigJohnT> I use "net spindle-on motion.spindle-on => parport.0.pin-16-out" to fire my plasma...
[23:19:33] <BigJohnT> but it is only off and on no amp control
[23:19:52] <SWPadnos> BigJohnT, the problem was that axis motion would stutter whenever there was an M3/M5/Sxxx word
[23:20:07] <SWPadnos> and he was using M3/M5 and S words all over the place, to set burn depth
[23:20:34] <BigJohnT> ok, way beyond my plasma then
[23:20:35] <cradek> I don't think you can assume the direction output stays set the direction of the last step
[23:20:42] <SWPadnos> it's not a step
[23:20:45] <cradek> that's easy enough to test though, of course
[23:20:49] <shrdlu-> http://pastebin.com/d1eafaf84
[23:20:50] <SWPadnos> that's what I was thinking at first also
[23:20:58] <shrdlu-> it seems to flutter around a bit
[23:21:08] <SWPadnos> but if zpos -> PWM input, then the PWM output should have a constant sign based on zpos
[23:21:15] <cradek> oh, I thought you were using Z direction output
[23:21:21] <shrdlu-> I am
[23:21:32] <SWPadnos> shrdlu-, I meant the hal file :)
[23:21:33] <cradek> ok I see what SWPadnos is saying now
[23:22:06] <SWPadnos> oh, try Z-0.01 instead of Z0
[23:22:14] <shrdlu-> this is just a stock stepconf 3 axis with the direction pin set to the laser
[23:22:16] <SWPadnos> something a little negative and something a little positive is all you need
[23:22:26] <SWPadnos> not 0 and 1, since 0 could be positive or negative
[23:22:36] <shrdlu-> oh, hm
[23:23:01] <SWPadnos> you can use Z-0.01 nad Z0.01 as the turn-off and turn-on depths
[23:37:19] <shrdlu-> That seems to be firing right now, but I can still hear the motor hopping slightly with both G64 and G61
[23:37:25] <shrdlu-> nowhere near as bad as before
[23:37:41] <shrdlu-> z speed settings maybe
[23:37:54] <SWPadnos> there should be a slight blend, and since the feedrate is the overall velocity, X and Y will slow down a little
[23:38:12] <SWPadnos> make Z accel/vel very very high, and use tiny Z moves
[23:38:25] <SWPadnos> but not so tiny they get ignored if you use G64P--
[23:56:32] <shrdlu-> how is it a cheap hpgl plotter card can do this smoothly with PEN UP and PEN DOWN commands, but with 100% control i can not?
[23:56:56] <shrdlu-> doing stuff with the z axis does not really seem any different from using the spindle