#emc | Logs for 2009-02-04

[00:08:51] <skunkworksemc> http://imagebin.ca/view/yxPk_e.html
[00:08:59] <skunkworksemc> still going very good
[00:09:13] <skunkworksemc> this would be about 24 hurs
[00:09:15] <skunkworksemc> hours
[00:10:08] <mshaver> what motherboard is this?
[00:11:39] <BigJohnT> that is sweet skunkworksemc
[00:11:49] <JymmmEMC> Yeah, what mshaver said skunkworksemc
[00:12:48] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC pokes skunkworksemc with a telsa coil
[00:12:53] <BigJohnT> inquiring minds want to know
[00:12:56] <JymmmEMC> tesla
[00:13:37] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks what mobo is that?
[00:14:01] <skunkworksemc> ecs goal3
[00:14:42] <JymmmEMC> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135060&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL021408&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL021408-_-MotherboardCPUVGACombo-_-L5A-_-13135060 ???
[00:15:28] <skunkworksemc> yes - except I have the athlon 64 3200+ processir
[00:15:33] <skunkworksemc> processor
[00:15:50] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks on board video is what you're using?
[00:16:18] <skunkworksemc> no - pci-e
[00:16:47] <JymmmEMC> skunkworksemc: what specific video card and driver, and what BIOS version?
[00:16:49] <skunkworksemc> onboard does 'work' with realtime but has a lot of 'noise at higher res/color depth
[00:18:34] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I'm hitting VIA tomorrow, I'll try and get you a set of cables (they only have DVI,PS2,serial, no parallel)
[00:18:42] <skunkworksemc> http://pastebin.ca/1326716
[00:19:33] <UncleG> SWPadnos: 3 out of 4 drives are fully functional again thank you very much :)
[00:19:36] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks Ok, What specific ATI video card - sometimes they vary
[00:20:01] <UncleG> ok. 2 out of 4, that one drive just crashed again.
[00:20:46] <skunkworksemc> I would have to look at the packaging.. It was a bestbuy purchase some odd brand
[00:20:46] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks and is it ATI brand, or just ATI chipset?
[00:20:54] <skunkworksemc> just ati chipset
[00:20:56] <JymmmEMC> k
[00:21:11] <UncleG> SWPadnos: according to A' on scope the A channel is being intermittant.
[00:21:44] <skunkworksemc> question is - how do I tell what video driver hardy is using?
[00:22:05] <skunkworksemc> it isn't in xorg.conf
[00:29:02] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks BTW, very cool =)
[00:31:30] <skunkworks> Thanks :) - I think it was SWPadnos pointed me to them a few months ago
[00:33:29] <JymmmEMC> I'm surprised that a ESC mobo performs so well
[00:34:01] <skunkworks> I always considered ecs motherboards just a step above pcchips ;)
[00:34:07] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks try rsyncing rtfm.mit.edu or sumthin =)
[00:34:24] <JymmmEMC> skunkworksNot really, especially since they are the same company =) iirc
[00:34:58] <JymmmEMC> pcchips is a rebrand of ESC, VIA, or some other TW mobo mfg
[00:35:19] <JymmmEMC> not Asus
[00:35:30] <JymmmEMC> maybe Tyan, but that doesn't sound right
[00:48:46] <SWPadnos> ECS may be rebranded MSI or something
[00:49:18] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, cool about the VIA stuff. let me know what you get (got) for me :)
[00:49:27] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I think it's the other way around as ESC is here in Fremont
[00:49:41] <SWPadnos> that motherboard is ECS though, not ESC
[00:49:44] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Will do, I have to hi them to R&R the fan
[00:50:04] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: oh, my bad... nfc
[00:50:51] <SWPadnos> the box says made in China
[00:51:37] <JymmmEMC> Ok, I just booted up a 1U box, how can I tell if it's 32 or 64 bit?
[00:51:48] <SWPadnos> what OS?
[00:52:01] <JymmmEMC> livecd
[00:52:12] <JymmmEMC> (gnetoo based)
[00:52:14] <JymmmEMC> gentoo
[00:52:20] <SWPadnos> ok, so Linux
[00:52:27] <SWPadnos> terminal -> uname -a
[00:52:28] <jepler> JymmmEMC: "uname -m"
[00:52:34] <SWPadnos> or -m :)
[00:52:49] <jepler> if it says i386 or i686 that means the OS is in 32-bit mode; if it says x86_64 it's in 64-bit mode
[00:52:56] <jepler> but it could be a 32-bit OS running on 64-bit capable hardwrae
[00:52:58] <JymmmEMC> % uname -a
[00:52:58] <JymmmEMC> Linux sysresccd #1 SMP Wed Jun 25 07:45:36 UTC 2008 i686 Dual Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 170 AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
[00:53:16] <SWPadnos> it's 32-bit running on a 64-bit processor
[00:53:30] <JymmmEMC> let me try rebooting with 64 bit mode
[00:53:48] <SWPadnos> there's an option to manually select?
[00:54:48] <jepler> linux denotes 64-bit capable CPUs with "lm" in the "flags" field of /proc/cpuinfo. To check for a 64-bit capable processor, even when running a 32-bit linux: $ grep -w lm /proc/cpuinfo
[00:55:10] <jepler> SWPadnos: it's gentoo .. it probably compiles the 64-bit kernel in 32-bit mode, then bootstraps into it
[00:55:13] <JymmmEMC> UH OH! I booted into 64 bit mode and the box shut off! lol
[00:55:32] <JymmmEMC> GAWD IT'S QUIET IN HERE
[00:55:39] <SWPadnos> apparently the liveCD forgets to build modules in 64-bit
[00:56:08] <JymmmEMC> damn, and no 64 usb sticks
[00:56:14] <jepler> opteron 100-series AMD64. http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_8796_9240,00.html
[00:56:29] <jepler> er, opteron 100-seriesl *supports* amd64
[00:56:31] <SWPadnos> all Opterons are 64-bit
[00:56:38] <JymmmEMC> ah, ok
[00:56:47] <JymmmEMC> it's 2GHz
[00:56:58] <JymmmEMC> model 170
[00:57:30] <JymmmEMC> but I'm not sure on the cores, if it's dual or faking via HT
[00:57:53] <SWPadnos> Opterons don't have HT
[00:58:07] <SWPadnos> neither do Athlon64/Phenom
[00:58:10] <JymmmEMC> ok, it must be the other 1U box I have that uses HT
[00:58:29] <JymmmEMC> If this thing wasn't so loud, I'd toss it up here at home
[00:59:24] <JymmmEMC> Think I should go debian or CentOS 64 bit?
[01:01:38] <SWPadnos> what's it for?
[01:01:51] <SWPadnos> and how much memory do you expect to put in it (ever)?
[01:01:57] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: to replace the p3 running debian in the datacenter
[01:02:07] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: It has 2GB right now
[01:02:23] <SWPadnos> if you might put 4 or more in it, then I'd use 64-bit
[01:02:37] <JymmmEMC> why so much?
[01:02:41] <SWPadnos> if not, then it's a toss-up (but I'd still use 64-bit, because I can :) )
[01:02:53] <SWPadnos> I meant if you expect to upgrade it to 4 or more
[01:03:03] <SWPadnos> above 3 gets weird or slow using 32-bit
[01:03:35] <JymmmEMC> heh, I dont even know how much ram is in the p3
[01:04:08] <JymmmEMC> how do you check that?
[01:04:20] <UncleG> SWPadnos: Scope screenshot of what happens when my drive "runs away" http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/20/l_28d99e650cb44cc7bf02f923c526f26c.png
[01:04:22] <jepler> "free -m" shows RAM in megs
[01:04:41] <UncleG> not much to see, but maybe it means more to you than me.
[01:04:42] <JymmmEMC> heh 512MB
[01:04:59] <SWPadnos> UncleG, is this with the command input shorted to ground?
[01:05:02] <jepler> UncleG: your PC stops getting half of the signal from the encoder
[01:05:08] <jepler> UncleG: (phaseA sticks at HIGH)
[01:05:19] <UncleG> this is it while its running the program from the CNC machine
[01:05:21] <jepler> UncleG: this makes the PC think that the encoder is not turning
[01:05:43] <UncleG> i hooked into A' and B' while the drive uses A and B
[01:05:46] <SWPadnos> jepler, halscope/the PC are being used only for monitoring, not control
[01:06:08] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Now debating on debian or CentOS. I'm more familure with debian, but CentOS seems more stbale
[01:06:20] <jepler> JymmmEMC: I bet either work pretty well
[01:06:22] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, no idea
[01:06:52] <SWPadnos> never used CentOS, Debian seems pretty stable to me (so stable that the testing branch is probably more stable than some distros)
[01:06:59] <jepler> SWPadnos: still, if the same thing is seen in the actual control, the same thing would happen
[01:07:05] <SWPadnos> agreed
[01:07:16] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: and aged too (debian that is)
[01:07:57] <jepler> you can't have "stable" without "stale"
[01:07:57] <JymmmEMC> oh hell... debian it is. I'll play with CentOS later on.
[01:08:03] <JymmmEMC> jepler: =)
[02:03:19] <eric_unterhause1> SWPadnos: what was motioncontrol's problem?
[02:04:02] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure. his file worked for me, after I (a) got my head out of my ass regarding looking at pins and (b) changed a few names
[02:04:46] <SWPadnos> I changed the firmware file (since I was using RIP) and also he had some hm2....gpio.P3.024.out, which needed the P3 to get dropped
[02:14:04] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Got a pic of that by chance?
[02:14:15] <SWPadnos> of what?
[02:14:20] <SWPadnos> no
[02:14:21] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: (a)
[02:14:35] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: video maybe?
[02:14:56] <SWPadnos> no, sorry. I had my hands full (and there were no witnesses)
[02:15:15] <JymmmEMC> damn, that might have been pretty funny stuff!
[02:15:27] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Oh, hey, you comin out this year?
[02:15:33] <SWPadnos> yeah, great for "America's Not Very Funny Home Videos"
[02:15:34] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:16:04] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: you doin an exhibit?
[02:16:10] <SWPadnos> arriving on march 27, gonna visit my cousin in SF until Sunday the 29th, then staying in SJC until April 4
[02:16:14] <SWPadnos> nope, not this year
[02:16:27] <SWPadnos> I may propose a series next year though
[02:17:17] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Ah, ok. well, I won't be available Apr 4th (as usual), how long you staying for?
[02:17:37] <SWPadnos> March 29 through April 4 in SJC
[02:17:50] <JymmmEMC> when you leave SJC ?
[02:17:56] <SWPadnos> April 4 :)
[02:18:25] <JymmmEMC> ok so you'll be in SJC on the 29th?
[02:19:59] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:20:12] <SWPadnos> I should be returning a rental car some time that afternoon
[02:22:05] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: ok, we can figure out something that week, I'm available after 3pm. Friday might be best since I don't have to get up at 5am the next day =)
[02:22:17] <SWPadnos> too bad I do ;)
[02:22:47] <SWPadnos> the flight out is at 9:39, and I *really* don't want to be late
[02:23:04] <JymmmEMC> you weren't last year. just the two years before that =)
[02:23:29] <SWPadnos> well, of the 3 trips I took to SJC last year, I was late two of them (by one minute)
[02:23:45] <SWPadnos> it was 3 years ago that I lost my cell phone in the cab
[02:23:48] <SWPadnos> (bastard)
[02:24:02] <JymmmEMC> were you? I think I even nagged you the last time to be early and everything
[02:24:23] <SWPadnos> if I had checked my bags curbside, I would have been on time
[02:24:30] <SWPadnos> or if I hadn't nedeed to return a rental car
[02:24:38] <SWPadnos> or if the shuttle had shown up a minute earlier
[02:24:40] <SWPadnos> ...
[02:24:50] <SWPadnos> I was literally one minute past their cutoff
[02:24:59] <JymmmEMC> *sigh*
[02:26:46] <SWPadnos> anyway, I'll check the schedule - maybe just Palace BBQ one night
[02:30:43] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: is that what you feel up to this time, or would you like to try something else?
[02:31:25] <SWPadnos> oh, I always like to try new things
[02:31:34] <SWPadnos> and it's even better if I end up liking them :)
[02:31:43] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: have anything in mind?
[02:31:59] <SWPadnos> no, but I usually like to get things that aren't available here
[02:32:08] <SWPadnos> Korean is one, ethiopian is another
[02:32:13] <JymmmEMC> oh, so like everything =)
[02:32:16] <SWPadnos> har
[02:32:45] <JymmmEMC> There is an etheopian (iirc) place, but I've never been there before.
[02:32:49] <JymmmEMC> place
[02:32:50] <SWPadnos> actually, there aren't many good Mexican restaurants here (only one that's really great, some others are OK)
[02:33:08] <SWPadnos> I know California has some good mexican-like stuff :)
[02:33:11] <SWPadnos> (at least in LA)
[02:33:13] <JymmmEMC> lol
[02:33:37] <eric_unterhause1> I wonder if the garlic restaurant is still in business in SF
[02:33:47] <JymmmEMC> well, I got a month or so to try anf see if I can find something new
[02:34:17] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:34:19] <JymmmEMC> The stinking Bloom or something like that?
[02:34:27] <eric_unterhause1> that sounds right
[02:34:53] <eric_unterhause1> the appetizer was the best part though, 26 garlic cloves in butter
[02:34:59] <SWPadnos> we've got excellent Thai, Indian, and Japanese (Sushi anyway), so don't bother with those unless they're supposed to be outstanding
[02:35:05] <SWPadnos> mmmm. garlic is the best
[02:35:38] <SWPadnos> my family and most of my friends have a saying: "there's no such thing as too much garlic"
[02:35:53] <eric_unterhause1> I agree, unless someone else ate it
[02:36:06] <JymmmEMC> stinking rose
[02:36:08] <JymmmEMC> http://www.tripadvisor.in/Restaurant_Review-g60713-d354010-Reviews-The_Stinking_Rose-San_Francisco_California.html
[02:36:29] <JymmmEMC> http://www.thestinkingrose.com/
[02:38:06] <eric_unterhause1> location doesn't seem that touristy, but what do I know
[02:38:51] <eric_unterhause1> I guess you can always insult a restaurant in SF by calling it a tourist trap
[02:38:54] <SWPadnos> it's not far from Pier 39
[02:39:05] <SWPadnos> so it's close to a touristy area
[02:39:27] <eric_unterhause1> my boss found us a really cheap hotel in chinatown, it was walking distance
[02:40:24] <eric_unterhause1> sometimes having a cheap boss is a good thing, staying in Chinatown was fun
[02:41:55] <SWPadnos> yeah, I like to walk around there when I'm in SF
[02:42:36] <SWPadnos> I often stay around Union Square or the convention center, and I'll walk up to Pier 39 or Chinatown for dinner
[02:42:47] <SWPadnos> (long walk, good for the calories :) )
[03:09:44] <cradek> hm, I've been known to click on windows to try to raise them above a paper sitting in front of the screen. this doesn't work. I just tried raising a window above a cat. it didn't work either.
[03:12:06] <SWPadnos> and if it did, the cat would readjust
[03:12:37] <cradek> she lays on the fan output of my laptop
[03:12:54] <SWPadnos> heh. a gram of protein or one erg of heat - cats will find either
[04:51:02] <UncleG> Anyone in here running a servo based setup?
[04:52:32] <UncleG> SWPadnos: are you available?
[04:53:28] <cradek> I am - lots are I think
[04:53:42] <jst_home> UncleG: hey there, any progress since last night on your 20 minute runaway servo?
[04:53:50] <UncleG> yes actually
[04:53:55] <jst_home> cool!
[04:53:59] <UncleG> I have one drive fixed :)
[04:54:06] <jst_home> awesome
[04:54:12] <UncleG> The other one is still running away after 20 minutes tho
[04:54:13] <jst_home> was it the encoder that was bad?
[04:54:18] <UncleG> it appears
[04:54:22] <jst_home> hmm
[04:54:29] <UncleG> I still have no way to find out what is actually going on with it
[04:54:32] <jst_home> ok, well, that's progress at least :)!
[04:54:47] <UncleG> I did catch it in the act of crashing on the scope tho
[04:55:01] <UncleG> it just shows A phase flat lining
[04:55:36] <jst_home> ah, so signal on both channels while it's working, and nothing on one channel once it goes?
[04:55:52] <UncleG> cradek: my question is, on my amp board i have a pin called "sig" how does that relate with EMC in other words what do I connect to it?
[04:56:30] <UncleG> jst_home: I will show you my scope reading at the 20 minute mark of it failing. let me find the link
[04:57:25] <UncleG> http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/20/l_28d99e650cb44cc7bf02f923c526f26c.png
[04:59:22] <jst_home> UncleG: interesting, so the one channel just gives up for some reason...
[05:01:09] <UncleG> yeah. its just like "%$#! it!!" and then my drive runs away
[05:01:21] <jst_home> heh, yeah
[05:02:00] <UncleG> What kind of set up are you running jst_home?
[05:07:42] <jst_home> UncleG: so far I only have a motor going where EMC tells it to go. Not hooked up to anything yet.
[05:07:57] <jst_home> UncleG: using my own designed servo controller
[05:08:09] <jst_home> UncleG: so not much of a setup yet :)
[05:08:30] <jst_home> UncleG: it's a DC motor, with a non-differential encoder
[05:09:01] <jst_home> UncleG: the controller is using a 20MHz AVR micro controller, and H-bridge drivers etc
[05:10:27] <UncleG> I would like to know how to make my existing amp work with EMC but have no idea what to do. so far my encoder is hooked up :) thats about it.
[05:11:00] <jst_home> UncleG: does it have a step and direction input?
[05:11:51] <UncleG> no
[05:11:56] <UncleG> just a sig pin
[05:12:03] <UncleG> well, as far as I can tell.
[05:12:09] <jst_home> a single pin?
[05:12:22] <UncleG> I can show you my amp schematic if you like.
[05:12:27] <jst_home> Not much you can do with that as far as I can imagine...
[05:12:28] <jst_home> sure
[05:12:57] <UncleG> I will probably need to send you a pdf, is that ok?
[05:13:18] <jst_home> yeah, sure. emc@jstenback.com should work
[05:14:06] <UncleG> ok
[05:15:58] <cradek> UncleG: you use a servo amp by buying a servo interface system such as the mesa or pico products. the encoders and amps hook to those.
[05:16:34] <eric_unterhause1> or if you like the runaways, get some geckos
[05:16:47] <cradek> step/dir is for steppers, don't let anyone confuse you :-)
[05:17:41] <jst_home> cradek: so how do those boards work, emc still needs to tell the servo to move one way or another, is that not done, at some level, with a step/dir signal combo?
[05:17:49] <cradek> yeah, if someone recommends discarding a working velocity mode servo amp in favor of a gecko step/dir drive, they don't know what they're talking about
[05:18:01] <cradek> jst_home: no, it's done with a velocity or torque analog command
[05:18:19] <jst_home> interesting
[05:18:26] <eric_unterhause1> step/dir under emc is done by faking the servo system
[05:18:57] <cradek> jst_home: people use step/dir servo amps only when they want to use legacy software that was only meant to run steppers. there are a lot of drawbacks to that setup.
[05:19:16] <jst_home> cradek: speed being one I'd imagine
[05:19:27] <cradek> jst_home: yep that's one
[05:19:32] <cradek> index pulse homing
[05:19:37] <cradek> following error detection
[05:19:46] <UncleG> I see.
[05:20:21] <UncleG> So there is no way to emulate what my existing cnc hardware does without a servo interface?
[05:20:34] <cradek> no
[05:20:40] <UncleG> well shucks
[05:21:11] <jst_home> cradek: following error detection? i.e. emc slows down if the servos can't keep up kinda deal, or something else?
[05:21:48] <jst_home> cradek: and yeah, I'm a total newbie at this stuff if you hadn't figured that out yet :)
[05:22:02] <cradek> jst_home: emc has following error limits proportional to the commanded velocity. if the position gets that far out, it stops motion
[05:22:46] <cradek> so, rapids don't have to track as close as slow cutting moves
[05:23:02] <cradek> also you can plot the error, commanded velocity, etc etc with halscope in real time
[05:23:07] <jst_home> cradek: ah, I see... my servo controller does something similar as well. But not that sophisticated yet :)
[05:23:09] <cradek> makes pid tuning much easier
[05:23:15] <jst_home> cool
[05:24:04] <UncleG> I was really hoping to be able to emulate that 1977 cnc with some 2009 software well piss.
[05:24:24] <cradek> UncleG: if you can't plug them together, no software in the world will help you
[05:24:46] <jst_home> UncleG: bummer :(
[05:24:56] <cradek> the mesa board set is not very expensive
[05:24:57] <UncleG> I wonder if I could use my other cnc box in conjuction with the amps to do what the mesa board does.
[05:25:14] <UncleG> I like to be as cheap as possible..
[05:25:29] <jst_home> cradek: yeah, I do that the hard way, logging the error etc, plotting it manually, and then figuring out what to tune :)
[05:25:47] <jst_home> cradek: fun project, which is the sole reason to do this in the first place
[05:25:50] <cradek> you will not retrofit a servo machine for $0
[05:25:56] <cradek> it's just not possible
[05:26:36] <jst_home> cradek: so the mesa boards or what not are PCI boards you plunk into any ol PC or?
[05:26:40] <cradek> but you can certainly pull it off for only hundreds if the important parts of your machine are currently working
[05:26:53] <cradek> yes mesa are PCI cards, pico are parport-based
[05:27:18] <cradek> you have a bogus encoder right? one channel goes dead sometimes? software can't fix that either
[05:27:25] <UncleG> lol
[05:27:35] <UncleG> yeah im still debuggin that.
[05:28:06] <jst_home> cradek: oh... is the mesa one significantly faster? Seems like getting all that data over the parallel port wouldn't be possible...
[05:28:13] <Benjamin_Mullin> as a software engineer by day I can tell you that software can fix anything and doesn't take any time or talent to produce
[05:28:13] <JymmmEMC> In case any ever wants to install Debian from bootable USB Stick (eg no cdrom drive): http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch04s03.html.en
[05:28:22] <Benjamin_Mullin> or so I've been told by management...
[05:28:41] <jst_home> Benjamin_Mullin: amen
[05:28:41] <cradek> jst_home: they can both run a reasonable 1kHz servo cycle with ease
[05:28:56] <eric_unterhause1> Benjamin_Mullin: do you still have pictures of your machine online?
[05:29:34] <jst_home> cradek: oh, yeah, that's not nearly as high of a frequency as I though...
[05:29:59] <Benjamin_Mullin> http://www.flickr.com/photos/26107619@N07/tags/minicnc/
[05:30:07] <eric_unterhause1> thanks
[05:30:08] <cradek> jst_home: for the class of machinery we all have, 1kHz is fine. The pico can probably do 5, the mesa maybe 10 or more
[05:30:26] <cradek> but it's entirely unneeded to go faster
[05:30:44] <cradek> when moving hundreds of lbs around, not much happens in a millisecond
[05:30:51] <jst_home> Benjamin_Mullin: now that's neat!
[05:31:07] <jst_home> cradek: true, true
[05:31:14] <JymmmEMC> ...unless it's a freighttrain =)
[05:31:37] <eric_unterhause1> I'm thinking I worked on a jet engine with a sample rate of 10hz
[05:32:04] <cradek> I hear some old CNCs had 100Hz servo cycles
[05:32:07] <Benjamin_Mullin> jst_home: thanks
[05:32:27] <jst_home> anyone here know anything about low power laser burners?
[05:32:31] <cradek> at rapid speed (200 inches/minute) my lathe still moves only .003 inches per 1kHz servo cycle
[05:32:41] <eric_unterhause1> Benjamin_Mullin: I need to figure out how to get that intermediate plate built
[05:33:18] <cradek> it can hold position to under .001" at that speed
[05:33:41] <jst_home> cradek: pretty impressive
[05:34:15] <Benjamin_Mullin> eric_unterhause1: how do you mean? do you not have the tooling to create it?
[05:34:37] <eric_unterhause1> if I only knew someone that had a mill ... that works
[05:34:44] <cradek> jst_home: most of it is 30 years old :-)
[05:34:57] <UncleG> I need you guys here in Indiana, I figure with your combined knowledge and my machine shop making a grand a day would be a piece of cake.
[05:35:03] <jst_home> cradek: yeah, makes it even more impressive
[05:35:40] <JymmmEMC> OM MY GAWD I CAN HEAR AGAIN... oh sorry for yelling, but the fans on this box are L O U D =)
[05:35:55] <jst_home> heh
[05:36:10] <JymmmEMC> 4x 15K RPM fans
[05:36:25] <UncleG> Do any of you work in a machine shop?
[05:36:47] <eric_unterhause1> we had a rack full of 2u dual processor machines, it was excruciating
[05:36:50] <cradek> my own little one, sometimes
[05:37:11] <UncleG> cradek: what do you have machinery wise?
[05:37:13] <JymmmEMC> eric_unterhause1: This is a 1U rackable
[05:37:13] <eric_unterhause1> I are engineer, not allowed in machine shop unless I pay
[05:37:21] <jst_home> UncleG: I've got a bridgeport clone, and a 1950-era Rockwell lathe, but I can't say I "work" in my shop :)
[05:37:33] <UncleG> :)
[05:37:47] <UncleG> have you turned either your mill or lathe into a CNC yet?
[05:37:49] <JymmmEMC> eric_unterhause1: Rackable (TM)
[05:37:50] <jst_home> UncleG: I do play a fair bit though
[05:37:54] <eric_unterhause1> JymmmEMC: like a friggn jet engines shrunk down to nothing
[05:38:09] <JymmmEMC> eric_unterhause1: And thus why the hostname is banshee =)
[05:38:11] <jst_home> UncleG: nope, but that's the reason for building servos :)
[05:38:19] <eric_unterhause1> nice
[05:38:24] <cradek> UncleG: I have three machines running emc2, plus one more manual lathe
[05:38:41] <eric_unterhause1> I need to get working on my mill again
[05:39:06] <cradek> um, plus a cnc mill not running emc2 quite yet
[05:39:11] <UncleG> nice
[05:39:39] <UncleG> cradek: have you got any production machines running emc?
[05:39:48] <cradek> I don't do production
[05:39:54] <JymmmEMC> eric_unterhause1: Sad part is I have two of them, I'd LOVE to toss the other one up here at home, and use it to duplicate the one going in the datacenter. but will have to work on the fan thingy. I'm thinking of unplugging the 15K rpm fans and making a cover that I can mount a 120mm fan to instead
[05:39:55] <UncleG> oh
[05:39:57] <UncleG> alright.
[05:40:05] <cradek> I have a production-quality lathe running emc
[05:40:11] <jst_home> UncleG: thanks for the schematic, but I guess it's kind of moot now
[05:40:16] <UncleG> yeah
[05:40:16] <UncleG> :P
[05:40:17] <cradek> UncleG: http://timeguy.com
[05:40:20] <UncleG> ok
[05:40:21] <LawrenceG> Hi JymmmEMC
[05:40:34] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: Hey! how ya doin?
[05:40:52] <LawrenceG> very good.... cleaning off the desktop!
[05:41:04] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: Got Dumpster?
[05:41:04] <eric_unterhause1> there are people running production machines with emc
[05:41:09] <jst_home> cradek: ah, I watched your video of your HNC turning those knobs the other day! Very nice!
[05:41:38] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC, its called the home folder
[05:41:43] <cradek> thanks
[05:42:08] <cradek> some improvements to the machine since, but the video is not going to get retaken!
[05:42:16] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: Oh, then dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda =)
[05:42:18] <jst_home> heh
[05:42:43] <UncleG> cradek: very nice.
[05:42:54] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: that'll clean your desktop and a couple other thigns too =)
[05:43:01] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC, ubuntu 8.10 has a very nice utility for making bootable usb drives... give it a cdrom iso image and tell it how much non volatile storage you want on the usb drive
[05:43:24] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: It's okey, but not perfect.
[05:44:06] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: I have/create various bootable USB sticks... debian, centos, sysrescd, ubuntu, knoppix
[05:44:11] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC, I finally got a large enough usb drive to try it.... worked nicely, but I only have 1 box here that is smart enough to boot from usb :{
[05:44:41] <UncleG> cradek: this is what I am putting this on. It is a single bar loader machine with 4 slides and 8 turret positions. http://www.indexmachineparts.com.au/Index-C29-machine-ref-004.jpg
[05:45:19] <cradek> neat
[05:45:22] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: There are so many ways to create them, and different ways work better than other depending on the distro
[05:46:08] <cradek> goodnight folks
[05:46:25] <UncleG> cradek: I plan to place a third axis as a profiling tool to make the index machine a cnc lathe equivilent as well
[05:46:29] <UncleG> good night
[05:46:53] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC, yea... I unsuccessfully tried following a few web sites... goodnite cradek
[10:06:22] <piasdom> g'mornin all
[10:09:12] <piasdom> how do i stop x and all opengl ?
[10:09:30] <piasdom> to nstall nvidia drivers
[10:38:17] <piasdom> what else effects latency besides o/b video ?
[10:41:31] <archivist> power management
[10:41:43] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#Unexpected_realtime_delay_check_dmesg_for_details
[10:50:19] <piasdom> archivist & alex_joni : thanks
[10:50:49] <piasdom> guess i shouldn't have gotten that nvidia video card
[10:51:59] <alex_joni> sometimes it works
[10:53:05] <piasdom> i got it to work..lat at 21000...better then o/b video so far
[10:54:12] <piasdom> anything else i can change(besides the computer :) that will help ?
[10:54:30] <alex_joni> 21k is pretty good
[10:56:27] <piasdom> cool
[10:57:08] <piasdom> still don't know what this is all about but i'm not going anywhere :)
[10:57:34] <piasdom> lat test only been running for about 15 min
[11:00:14] <piasdom> would a larger power supply help ?
[11:00:36] <archivist> help what
[11:01:00] <piasdom> power managerment
[11:01:32] <archivist> no
[11:01:38] <piasdom> k
[11:02:12] <archivist> its the chip being set slow to keep cool in some models etc
[11:03:26] <piasdom> chip ?
[11:03:49] <archivist> cpu
[11:04:03] <piasdom> there's a setting for that ?
[11:04:31] <archivist> its a bios setting, switching off can invalidate guarantee
[11:04:59] <piasdom> oh ....
[11:06:17] <archivist> major problem in laptops
[11:06:39] <piasdom> out of war anyway...desktop here
[11:07:22] <archivist> but the technology of power management is creeping into desktop motherboards
[11:08:35] <piasdom> didn't i see power managment in win98 ?
[11:08:56] <piasdom> oh...win98 could be on a laptop
[11:09:16] <piasdom> never have a laptop so i don't think in those terms :)
[11:11:00] <piasdom> 'if my lat stays at 21000...should i change it in config file ? (set at 50000)
[11:33:03] <piasdom> what's a good linux video card for emc?
[11:50:39] <alex_joni> piasdom: depends on the config file.. was it generated using stepconf?
[11:51:10] <piasdom> jepler gave me the file
[11:51:31] <piasdom> inch/metric smaples
[12:02:24] <alex_joni> "gave" ?
[12:03:04] <piasdom> that's what i call it...got it here
[12:05:30] <piasdom> did i start trouble ?
[12:06:13] <alex_joni> nope
[12:06:28] <piasdom> sample config files that work on other comp
[12:07:28] <piasdom> so should i change the base if my lat stays at 21000 ?
[12:07:33] <alex_joni> then I guess it's ok to decrease the BASE_PERIOD
[12:07:39] <alex_joni> maybe try with 25000
[12:07:51] <piasdom> ok...thanks
[12:08:11] <alex_joni> ROFLMAO http://uuner.doslash.org/forfun/sedtris.sed
[12:08:16] <piasdom> * piasdom still not sure what i did
[12:09:18] <archivist> alex_joni, there is an evil awk script out there somewhere PDF printer iirc
[12:09:34] <piasdom> now....any reconmendations for an emc video card ?
[12:18:01] <alex_joni> piasdom: nope
[12:18:10] <piasdom> thanks
[12:18:12] <alex_joni> maybe something non-ati and non-nvidia
[12:18:15] <alex_joni> if you can find any
[12:18:23] <alex_joni> an older matrox should work great
[12:18:36] <piasdom> been looking ....
[12:18:46] <piasdom> i'll look for that
[12:22:15] <archivist> * archivist has a cheapo noname in the old box and an onboard on the new
[12:23:26] <BigJohnT> archivist: what is a Christmas Cracker?
[12:23:44] <archivist> ? wha strange question
[12:24:51] <archivist> http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=christmas+cracker
[12:24:57] <BigJohnT> I understand it is a tube with a toy inside that "cracks" open and it given on Christmas...
[12:24:59] <archivist> second link
[12:25:08] <BigJohnT> in England
[12:25:32] <archivist> also includes a terrible joke and a paper hat
[12:26:09] <BigJohnT> kinda like the toy in cracker jacks then
[12:27:21] <archivist> I refuse to wear the hat
[12:27:31] <BigJohnT> LOL
[12:28:32] <BigJohnT> a real link http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/Xmas/crackers.html
[12:28:40] <archivist> the "toy" is only mildy fun if its kit/puzzle and you DONT read the instructions
[12:28:52] <BigJohnT> LOL
[12:29:40] <BigJohnT> the hat does look funny
[12:29:47] <archivist> my link gave you a real google link :) eventually
[12:30:21] <archivist> the joke being on a par with cracker jokes
[12:30:44] <BigJohnT> I just clicked on your link it is funny
[12:32:12] <BigJohnT> anyway I saw it on a "Good Eats" episode last night about crackers it was one of the factoids that they pop up with just enought time to read them
[12:33:02] <archivist> we use use the bots !google when feeling evil in #mysql
[12:46:01] <skunkworksemc> still going. A lot more stable when the motherboard is in a case... http://imagebin.ca/view/8_hnvqB.html
[12:46:07] <skunkworksemc> ;)
[13:05:59] <starter> hi
[13:06:07] <starter> how's everyone?
[13:06:08] <starter> ;)
[13:06:40] <starter> Could someone please tell me why do I always have round corners instead of sharp ones?
[13:07:05] <UbunUbun> Hi all! Exactly what packages do I need to install for emc2 to compile. I have the kernel compiled, and up and running.
[13:07:35] <UbunUbun> I found a few lists, but they are all different.
[13:08:05] <starter> If i try to simulate the part to cut (pen plotter that acts like a plasma cutter, in my case)
[13:08:55] <starter> i get round corners if I hit yhe play button on axis
[13:09:27] <starter> but if, instead, i execute the program line by line, everything is ok ad corners are sharp
[13:09:37] <starter> why does this happens?
[13:10:00] <eric_unterhause1> blending in the trajectory planner
[13:10:31] <starter> blending?
[13:10:47] <starter> you mean that this will not happen in the real world?
[13:11:21] <archivist> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TrajectoryControl
[13:11:39] <archivist> yes but you can control
[13:12:43] <starter> so... where do i have it in the interface?
[13:12:52] <starter> do i have to issue a command?
[13:13:02] <eric_unterhause1> did you read that link?
[13:14:39] <starter> I'm reading it
[13:14:41] <starter> now
[13:17:22] <starter> so every gcode program must have G61 at the beginning, in my case
[13:17:25] <starter> right?
[13:18:01] <archivist> try it and you should see the change
[13:19:38] <starter> I see joint 0 error...
[13:19:54] <starter> I saw this change, definitly
[13:20:09] <eric_unterhause1> stepper machine?
[13:20:14] <starter> right
[13:20:19] <starter> it's a stepper
[13:21:06] <eric_unterhause1> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Following_Error
[13:21:37] <eric_unterhause1> probably acceleration set too high?
[13:22:04] <starter> maybe
[13:22:13] <starter> i'll try some settings
[13:28:54] <alex_joni> finally powered up my bigger box .. 22295.85 BogoMIPS
[13:30:16] <starter> Do I need to insert the G61 command in the hal file, in a way that it it's activated by default?
[13:31:45] <starter> sorry to ask these dummy questions, bt i'm really a starter on emc :S~
[13:32:33] <alex_joni> not in the hal file
[13:33:27] <starter> in every GCODE file I mean
[13:33:57] <starter> So there's no way of activating it by default for every files?
[13:34:03] <eric_unterhause1> probably a good idea if you want exact corners
[13:35:42] <archivist> sort of thing you should add to your post on your cam program
[13:36:52] <starter> It's exactly what I'm trying to do
[13:36:58] <starter> I'm using sheetcam
[13:39:53] <archivist> I dont know about sheetcam but the writer will respond on the user mailing list
[13:42:17] <alex_joni> or in here
[13:42:25] <alex_joni> when he's around
[13:45:52] <alex_joni> does anyone know how to install grub on /dev/rp/c0d0p1 ?
[13:46:05] <jepler> just to clarify, I sent piasdom the sherline inifiles from TRUNK, because he was having trouble downloading them on his own.
[13:46:22] <alex_joni> jepler: that's what I thought
[13:46:51] <piasdom> thanks
[13:47:26] <piasdom> don't know aNYTHING about TRUNK :)
[13:58:08] <UbunUbun> Hi all! Exactly what packages do I need to install for emc2 to compile. I have the kernel compiled, and up and running.
[13:58:35] <UbunUbun> I found lists for debian lenny/etch, but I'm using Ubuntu 8.04.
[13:59:06] <archivist> UbunUbun, easiest to start with the live cd
[13:59:09] <alex_joni> UbunUbun: any reason to compile emc2 yourself?
[13:59:23] <UbunUbun> No can do. Need SMP
[13:59:25] <alex_joni> archivist: not now.. now it would be easiest to use the install script
[13:59:31] <alex_joni> which will grab emc2 and kernel
[13:59:52] <archivist> alex_joni, good!
[14:00:03] <UbunUbun> I have the kernel part done, and running.
[14:01:46] <UbunUbun> I have run cvs and downloaded the 2.2_branch, and am ready to compile, but need to install need packages.
[14:03:07] <alex_joni> UbunUbun: check debian/control.in
[14:03:09] <jepler> the file debian/control names the required packages on the Build-Depends line. debian/control is generated by running 'debian/configure -r' while running your realtime kernel
[14:03:22] <alex_joni> there is a Build Depends there which lists all packages
[14:05:59] <UbunUbun> Do I need to be in a specific directory when I issue this command?
[14:06:05] <jepler> yes of course
[14:06:20] <alex_joni> debian/ is a folder inside the emc2 source dir
[14:06:33] <alex_joni> debian/configure is a script in the debian/ folder
[14:10:47] <skunkworks> logger_emc: bookmark
[14:10:47] <skunkworks> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-02-04.txt
[14:44:05] <archivist> alex_joni, in reply to sedtris a web server in postscript http://people.debian.org/~godisch/pshttpd/
[14:44:28] <alex_joni> archivist: lol
[14:53:11] <jensor> I find I can eliminate the rtapi error popup if I lengthen the base period. Is there a limitation on base period length. Does performance or accuracy decrease? Other than max velocitY?
[14:54:04] <alex_joni> jepler: mostly max_vel is the thing that goes down
[14:59:52] <jensor> It seems I've tried everything to reduce latency and can't get it below about 115,000, With my base period set to 120000 I would end up with 200 in/min, much more than my steppers can drive.
[15:00:27] <jensor> So That should be okay shouldn't it?
[15:00:38] <eric_unterhause1> what motherboard do you have?
[15:00:43] <jensor> intel
[15:01:42] <eric_unterhause1> that sounds like smi problems
[15:04:59] <jensor> I have gone through the procedure of recompiling the kernal as per instructions and it did get the latency down to where it is now.
[15:05:24] <eric_unterhause1> wow
[15:06:06] <jensor> I don't understand what you mean.
[15:06:40] <eric_unterhause1> sounds like you made a lot of effort
[15:06:55] <jensor> oh, I have.
[15:13:28] <eric_unterhause1> the thing that really reduced my latency was getting rid of the USB
[15:13:59] <eric_unterhause1> most bios call it the legacy usb, but I missed it because my bios called it something else
[15:14:50] <jensor> Did you disable the usb in the bios?
[15:16:24] <eric_unterhause1> not entirely, it still works once the driver is loade
[15:16:25] <eric_unterhause1> d
[15:16:45] <jensor> I see
[15:20:14] <jensor> I just checked. in the bios, my "legacy USB Support" is has already been disabled. I suppose there must be a driver present because the usb port does work.
[15:23:22] <eric_unterhause1> sounds like that's not it
[15:24:46] <jensor> What video driver are you using?
[15:24:55] <eric_unterhause1> mga
[15:25:20] <jensor> my video is nvidia
[15:25:24] <eric_unterhause1> my latency is still higher than I would like, but since I'm running a servo machine, there isn't a big problem
[15:25:51] <eric_unterhause1> actually, I don't think mga is helping me much over using vesa with the nvidia card I had in there
[15:26:55] <eric_unterhause1> too bad there isn't a better way to figure out what is causing the problem
[15:27:24] <eric_unterhause1> back in the old days, there were add-in boards that could spy on your system and tell you that sort of thing
[15:28:05] <jensor> I found that if I run "latency-test" with vesa the test works fine. But if I run the latency test the old way where you do mkdir rtf etc after a wahile the test bombs out and you have to reboot in order to run emc
[15:28:31] <jensor> This doesn't happen with nv driver
[15:31:16] <jensor> And I found that I have to run "latency-test" for 3-4 hours before I see the big latency number.
[15:34:54] <archivist> jensor, it may not be video, could be power (modern cpus slow down to keep cool)
[15:36:07] <jensor> archivist, Never realized that.
[15:36:48] <archivist> jensor, mostly in laptops but its spreading
[15:36:53] <eric_unterhause1> that's why the smi interrupt is important
[15:37:12] <eric_unterhause1> most high end computers will do that
[15:38:03] <jensor> disabling smi can be dangerous according to what I read on the trouble shooting page
[15:38:14] <skunkworks> smi would show its head every 90 seconds or so.
[15:38:34] <skunkworks> from my experience anyways.
[15:38:48] <jensor> Ok, if it is that - then I don't have that problem
[15:39:41] <archivist> maybe normal smi you were cool enough but after a time not then it would slow down
[15:40:32] <jensor> it takes a while before the latency to get up to maybe 28,000 but several hours before I see the big numbers like 100,000
[15:41:07] <skunkworks> what are the specs of this computer?
[15:50:06] <jensor> skunkworks, intel mb, with 82801BA i/o controller hub, 2 ghz pentium 4, with at least 512 mb ram
[15:51:24] <tomp> i saw huge numbers after letting systems run over 24 hrs. this is all documented on wiki. i dont think many people run the tests as hard or as long as i did. now tomp is doubting thomas.
[15:51:40] <archivist> I have a P4 and getting about 17000 but its an oddball mother board
[15:55:05] <tomp> i had very good numbers for a few hours of testing. i wonder if anyone has good numbers for say, as long as a mill in a shop is run (like 24/7)
[15:55:54] <cradek_> I leave my lathe on all the time, and often EMC is running
[15:55:57] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[15:57:02] <tomp> thanks, can i find your mobo et al on the wiki?
[15:57:21] <cradek> no, I don't know what it is, just some old thing
[15:57:35] <cradek> amd processor of some kind I think
[15:58:05] <tomp> oh, all my old things, and some suggested things gave me different results than you
[15:58:49] <skunkworks> this motherboard has been running the latency test for 1.5+ days.. http://imagebin.ca/view/8_hnvqB.html
[15:59:21] <skunkworks> I really have not had that bad of luck with most systems
[15:59:44] <tomp> thanks will look into that one, i'n in the mobo hatchery of taiwan now
[16:00:48] <tomp> skunkworks: thx nice shot, whats the boards ientification?
[16:01:02] <tomp> /d/
[16:02:25] <skunkworks> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135060&Tpk=goal3
[16:02:36] <tomp> thanks, lookin now
[16:02:36] <skunkworks> it is that motherboard but with a amd 64
[16:02:47] <tomp> k
[16:02:52] <jensor> Is it reasonable to simulataneously run glxgears, and 2 youtube videos during a latency test?
[16:03:09] <skunkworks> I don't remember if SWPLinux had the sempron version - you might want to ask him how that runs..
[16:03:20] <skunkworks> jensor: yes
[16:03:22] <SWPadnos> nope, A64 too
[16:03:31] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: thanks
[16:03:45] <SWPadnos> sure
[16:04:50] <tomp> sounds familiar, but several thou miles away, would have to rely on my docs to the wiki
[16:05:56] <SWPadnos> tomp, if you're near EliteGroup/ECS, grab a few hundred of those GOAL3+, ok? :)
[16:06:04] <SWPadnos> should be just a few bucks there
[16:06:05] <skunkworks> :)
[16:06:14] <tomp> jensor, if you get good numbers its not too hars a stress, i' look to see that the numbers were repeatble, an reliable over a long time
[16:06:49] <tomp> SWPadnos: gto an address, i jusrt mae another visa run and got 60 ddays in the hole
[16:06:58] <tomp> got an adress?
[16:07:29] <SWPadnos> no, I don't. I'm sure the web does though :)
[16:08:16] <tomp> no idea of what they are but if you're serious i can look. outrageously good electronics stores here
[16:09:48] <tomp> yep should be able to get 'em
[16:10:19] <tomp> http://www.pcchips.com.tw/PCCWebSite/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?detailid=405&CategoryID=1&DetailName=Specification&MenuID=1&LanID=0
[16:12:46] <tomp> needs a boatload of spcl connectors for all those 'feaatures' and only 1 weirdo slot
[16:13:52] <SWPadnos> actually, I just remembered that the GOAL3 box says "Made in China"
[16:14:04] <tomp> slots no good for mesa, so its a fancy par port stepper mobo
[16:14:04] <SWPadnos> It would be more likely to say Taiwan if it were made there
[16:14:10] <tomp> by a taiwanse co
[16:14:33] <SWPadnos> ah
[16:14:36] <tomp> co is owned by taiwanese
[16:15:20] <tomp> still , i will keep lookin for a mobo that works well.
[16:15:23] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, it's getting hard to find many socket 754 CPUs these days
[16:16:53] <tomp> ok thanks, midnight here, also lookin for a new eeepc kbd , alreay too old to find 701 partts here ( d key gone )
[17:33:18] <alex_joni> haha http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/02/04/videogame_fire_drill/
[17:34:45] <cradek> those with videogames experience performed better than those without.
[17:34:48] <cradek> ha
[17:37:15] <cradek> they should have spent the money on some non-flammable staircases instead
[17:38:49] <alex_joni> haha
[18:21:27] <motioncontrol> good evening.Yesterday i have poste one problem for load the firmware for two m5i20 card in one pc.The problem is resolution?
[18:24:10] <SWPadnos> it works fine
[18:24:26] <SWPadnos> your hal file has some errors in it, but I was able to get it to load after correcting them
[18:25:09] <SWPadnos> one thing I noticed, you have firmware=hm2/firmware/5i20/SVST4_4.BIT
[18:25:23] <SWPadnos> did you compile EMC yourself, or is this an installed version?
[18:25:53] <motioncontrol> I have compile emc 2.2.8
[18:26:30] <SWPadnos> it's a little strange to have hm2/firmware/... as the firmware directory
[18:27:05] <SWPadnos> you may have done it that way, which is OK, but it may be better to shorten the directory name
[18:27:31] <SWPadnos> I use hm2-2/5i20/... for the run in place version that I compiled
[18:27:40] <motioncontrol> normaly i use the old driver m5i20, but now i have modification the 7i34 configuration in 5i20 config is similar
[18:28:01] <SWPadnos> yes, that was one source of problems, the names of GPIO pins have changed
[18:28:13] <SWPadnos> they no longer have the connector name (like P3) in them
[18:28:46] <SWPadnos> you should be sure that you are running the correct version of EMC2, and that the firmware comes from the same place
[18:28:52] <motioncontrol> yes no problem for my the name pin.i control input and output digital with classicladder
[18:29:19] <SWPadnos> I had to remove one halui connection as well, since the config I started with didn't have halui in it
[18:29:42] <motioncontrol> yes the halui connection use only for my test
[18:30:05] <motioncontrol> the system with one card fuction o0k
[18:30:07] <SWPadnos> the config string worked fine the way you originally had it: config="firmware... num_stepgens..., firmware=... "
[18:30:24] <SWPadnos> I tried with and without a space after the comma, and it worked both ways
[18:30:50] <motioncontrol> on your configuration you load 2 card?
[18:30:54] <SWPadnos> yes
[18:31:30] <SWPadnos> I used the file you put on pastebin, changed the name of a few pins, removed the single halui connection, and changed the firmware name to match my directory structure
[18:31:33] <motioncontrol> this is the problem
[18:31:36] <SWPadnos> and EMC2 loads fine
[18:32:08] <motioncontrol> ok please post the correction hal file on pastebin and i prove the configuration please
[18:33:36] <SWPadnos> http://pastebnin.ca/1327289
[18:33:38] <SWPadnos> err
[18:33:41] <SWPadnos> http://pastebin.ca/1327289
[18:34:58] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I wonder why all the extra line feeds are in there
[18:36:21] <SWPadnos> you will probably need to change the path to point to your firmware
[18:36:25] <motioncontrol> i thinng no fuction on my configuration
[18:36:42] <motioncontrol> because yesterday this prove no success
[18:36:49] <SWPadnos> ?
[18:36:53] <SWPadnos> does it work now?
[18:37:45] <motioncontrol> i don't can prove it now. tomorrow i prove the new hal file.
[18:38:03] <SWPadnos> ok
[18:38:22] <motioncontrol> in your configuration you see in halmeter the io the second card?
[18:38:46] <SWPadnos> yes
[18:38:53] <motioncontrol> ok
[18:39:04] <SWPadnos> it also loads without error
[18:39:20] <SWPadnos> which is a reasaonably good indication that it's working
[18:39:44] <motioncontrol> exucuse swpadnos you can pastebin your ini file?
[18:39:55] <SWPadnos> sure
[18:40:07] <motioncontrol> thanks
[18:40:46] <SWPadnos> http://pastebin.ca/1327295
[18:41:04] <motioncontrol> because not is possible see in halmeter the %IB0(minternal relay) of classicladder?
[18:41:38] <SWPadnos> no
[18:41:49] <SWPadnos> you can use the classicladder GUI to monitor the internals of classicladder
[18:42:03] <SWPadnos> but I don't know how, so someone else will have to help if you have questions
[18:42:59] <BigJohnT> motioncontrol: open the classicladder gui and open the vars window
[18:43:37] <motioncontrol> the question is. The emc see the classicladder variable only :input-output and s32in and out.For more complex plc maschine is important use the internal reley, for comunication the classicladder=>emc
[18:45:03] <alex_joni> motioncontrol: I think the new classicladder which will be part of emc2.3.0 has more advanced possibilities
[18:45:27] <motioncontrol> exaple if read control on => wait 5 second => open brake
[18:45:47] <motioncontrol> breke or another fuction
[18:45:57] <SWPadnos> motioncontrol, HAL shouldn't need to do anything with internal classicladder variables
[18:46:19] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I think there are timers which expose HAL pins for the timeout
[18:46:33] <SWPadnos> you should set up your ladder so that any communications are done through HAL pins (as they would be done with I/O on a normal PLC)
[18:46:56] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, ok, that's an I/O as far as I'm concerned
[18:47:35] <BigJohnT> if not you can set a contact from the timer
[18:47:43] <BigJohnT> contact/output
[18:47:55] <motioncontrol> On siemens840d and fauc and selca and fagor cnc, exist one area memory for comunication: cnc=>plc ; plc=>nc.
[18:48:29] <BigJohnT> I don't think that is in classicladder
[18:48:29] <motioncontrol> this area is see at plc and cnc
[18:48:49] <motioncontrol> ok.
[18:49:18] <BigJohnT> what makes you want this?
[18:49:31] <motioncontrol> Who is the people for implementation the futhure on classicladder?
[18:52:06] <alex_joni> probably Marc Le Dourain - the author
[18:52:10] <BigJohnT> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//ladder_classic_ladder.html
[18:52:13] <motioncontrol> i want create the powerful plc and cnc combination, but i don't know the source of classcladder
[18:52:21] <BigJohnT> read the into
[18:52:28] <BigJohnT> intro
[18:54:20] <motioncontrol> ok thanks
[18:54:26] <BigJohnT> isn't the plc part normally not real time?
[18:54:36] <BigJohnT> tool change etc.
[18:55:22] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: on big machines usually an external PLC is used
[18:55:35] <alex_joni> the shared memory motioncontrol mentions is just a communication mechanism..
[18:55:57] <BigJohnT> can't he use modbus for that with classicladder?
[18:55:59] <motioncontrol> i have one question for tool change.in another cnc, when the cnc read the t1 m6 , read the one macro for position x-y and z axis in position tool, orientation the spindle and change the tool.Is possible with emc
[18:56:14] <BigJohnT> yes
[18:56:25] <motioncontrol> which
[18:56:56] <alex_joni> currently there is a XYZ position emc2 goes to for toolchange
[18:59:29] <motioncontrol> alex tahnks.in general which use the toolchange in emc
[19:00:34] <motioncontrol> you are one example if you compless for help?
[19:01:09] <alex_joni> there is a sample config included demo-mazak
[19:01:15] <alex_joni> which does toolchanging
[19:02:29] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNn-Yr7it5s - here's a short video how it's working
[19:02:37] <alex_joni> good night all
[19:02:45] <BigJohnT> good night alex_joni
[19:03:16] <motioncontrol> ok.I don,t understant which the emc read t1 m6 , after position axis and change the tool.i see in halmeter the variable pin for change tool and number toool.but i thing the change operation is in classicladder plc
[19:03:32] <BigJohnT> one second
[19:04:16] <BigJohnT> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man1/iocontrol.1.html
[19:04:39] <BigJohnT> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man1/halui.1.html
[19:06:08] <motioncontrol> in halui pos commanden i can write the position tool change?
[19:06:47] <SWPadnos> no
[19:07:13] <SWPadnos> it is difficult to cause axis motion while a program is running, and the program is running during a toolchange
[19:07:21] <JanVanGilsen> Hi
[19:07:55] <SWPadnos> you can't jog or use MDI commands while a program is running, and these are the only ways that halui can use to move the machine
[19:08:23] <JanVanGilsen> jepler: I got the multi level xml working http://imagebin.org/37543
[19:08:45] <SWPadnos> that looks cool!
[19:08:48] <JanVanGilsen> now the number of regions is unlimited :) at least on my pc :)
[19:08:58] <SWPadnos> does the "needle" change color based on where it's pointing?
[19:09:09] <JanVanGilsen> No
[19:09:22] <SWPadnos> ok (it's red and pointing to red, so ...)
[19:09:47] <BigJohnT> heh you added more regions!
[19:09:52] <motioncontrol> ok thanks.i study demo-mazak, but is difficult.
[19:09:58] <SWPadnos> yes, it is :)
[19:10:16] <SWPadnos> it's a complex machine, with a lot of I/O and some relatively big ladders
[19:11:55] <motioncontrol> i thing the plc no prblem.My problem is step necessary for toolchange: example read t1 m6=> plc change tool = true => start axis position change=> splindle mark ecc...
[19:12:21] <BigJohnT> if it was easy everyone would do it
[19:12:30] <jepler> JanVanGilsen: neat -- does it require extensive changes to vcp?
[19:12:31] <SWPadnos> there are several things involved in the mazak config
[19:12:32] <JanVanGilsen> SWPadnos: this is already in trunk but is limmited to 3 regions <region1>(0,20,"red")</region1>
[19:12:56] <SWPadnos> oh, does the new one support as many as you want?
[19:12:58] <BigJohnT> I want more regions :)
[19:13:00] <JanVanGilsen> Jes, this affects all widgets
[19:14:58] <JanVanGilsen> e.g. region[0]["color"][0] wil return "red" and region[1]["color"][0] == "orange"
[19:15:04] <jepler> JanVanGilsen: that's a pity -- in the schedule for emc 2.3 we're past the date for adding new features. The rules might bend a little, but something that has to touch every widget in pyvcp is too much
[19:15:44] <JanVanGilsen> true
[19:16:01] <jepler> JanVanGilsen: even so, please put a patch somewhere, so we can add it later when it's time for new features again
[19:16:06] <SWPadnos> wait - does it require extensive changes to existing (2.2.x) vcp panels, or to vcp itself?
[19:16:31] <SWPadnos> if most users xml files don't need to change, then I'd vote to include it in 2.3
[19:16:46] <SWPadnos> (even though we're a few days past the cutoff date_
[19:16:48] <SWPadnos> )
[19:17:16] <BigJohnT> we could set the clock back on your pc jepler :)
[19:17:19] <JanVanGilsen> in the xml files it will only affect widgets that will use multiple level structures
[19:17:39] <SWPadnos> I guess my question is whether unmodified xml files will still work
[19:17:49] <SWPadnos> ones that don't use multiple colors, since that wasn't possible before
[19:18:44] <JanVanGilsen> Yes, but the pach is still far from ready :d
[19:19:55] <SWPadnos> well, hurry up! :)
[19:20:15] <jepler> I'd rather have a good patch than a hurried one
[19:20:38] <SWPadnos> how about a tiny one, then a lot of bug fixes? :)
[19:20:46] <JanVanGilsen> It might be better not adding the region feature to 2.3 yet and release it next time when the multi level stuff is done
[19:21:07] <SWPadnos> + # eventually, many widgets will be able to draw scales in different colors
[19:21:11] <SWPadnos> :)
[19:21:42] <SWPadnos> I keep coming back to whether xml files will be required to change
[19:21:57] <SWPadnos> for a 2.2->2.3 upgrade, some editing is acceptable
[19:22:05] <SWPadnos> for a 2.3.x to 2.3.x+y, it's not
[19:22:18] <JanVanGilsen> I'm also planning on adding my graph widget in the furure (it will have multiple lines)
[19:23:17] <JanVanGilsen> if you don't add the region option yet, there will be no changes required when it's added
[19:23:53] <jepler> ok, so someone using the <region1/><region2/><region3/> syntax would have to change but everything else would remain the same?
[19:24:03] <jepler> (including for all other kinds of widgets)
[19:24:59] <motioncontrol> hello at all and thenk for help.Good night.
[19:25:04] <SWPadnos> good night
[19:27:43] <JanVanGilsen> well I think it will be for 2.4 =)
[19:32:15] <JanVanGilsen> e.g. the radiobutton widget: <radiobutton><option halpin="pin-01">"one"</option><option halpin="pin-02">"two"</option><option halpin="pin-03">"three"</option></radiobutton>
[19:34:41] <SWPadnos> there are no examples with radio buttons in them, what's the current syntax?
[19:36:05] <BigJohnT> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/hal_pyvcp.html#r1_5_3
[19:36:27] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[19:36:51] <BigJohnT> hmmm, none of the images show up in the html version
[19:37:00] <SWPadnos> I noticed that :)
[19:37:37] <SWPadnos> another note: pyvcp-led.png (or some image) was not found when I tried to compile with docs yesterday
[19:37:52] <SWPadnos> I finally disabled docs to get around it
[19:38:11] <BigJohnT> ok, I'll look into this evening when I get home... did you do a make clean?
[19:38:15] <jepler> BigJohnT: ugh, I'll look into that soon
[19:38:18] <jepler> (images missing)
[19:38:25] <SWPadnos> no, I didn't
[19:38:46] <SWPadnos> I did see the build deps get regenerated, but I'll try with make clean
[19:38:57] <BigJohnT> looks like all the images that are not in a float are missing
[19:39:05] <SWPadnos> maybe images aren't picked up quite right fordepends
[19:39:28] <BigJohnT> nope some show up some don't
[19:42:23] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT heads out to deliver some heaters to the St. Vincent DePaul folks
[20:06:53] <jepler> well this is irritating -- I cleaned and rebuilt the documentation, and now it seems to have uploaded the missing images to linuxcnc.org
[20:08:09] <SWPadnos> well, at least they're there
[20:08:18] <SWPadnos> make clean also fixed my local build problem
[20:08:55] <SWPadnos> of course, now we see that the text is wrong, option "one" is actually selected in the radio button group :)
[20:39:27] <skunkworks> http://www.edn.com/contents/images/52903di.pdf
[20:39:36] <skunkworks> page 2 has a cool blanking circuit.
[20:40:07] <skunkworks> sure am learning a lot. ;)
[20:40:46] <skunkworks> *simple leading edge blanking circuit.
[20:42:39] <skunkworks> and my simple application of it. soon to be tested. http://imagebin.ca/view/YspeH-r.html
[20:43:14] <skunkworks> I think I am getting there...
[20:45:04] <skunkworks> better picture http://imagebin.ca/img/YspeH-r.png
[20:54:31] <leito> hi, anyone can tell me please wich software do you use to edit .ko files ?
[20:57:51] <micges> leito: what do you want to do ?
[20:58:58] <leito> i need to edit
[20:59:02] <leito> the modmot module
[20:59:17] <leito> because i need more digital i/o for the m66 function
[21:00:13] <micges> have you readed documentation?
[21:02:14] <leito> yes, and yesterday i talked with jepler and he told me that, and i was wondering what editor you recomend to edit the files
[21:02:25] <cradek> leito: you're asking the wrong question
[21:02:47] <cradek> leito: by setting a command line argument when loading motmod, you can increase the number of IOs
[21:02:55] <cradek> leito: you do not edit .ko files
[21:03:25] <leito> ok, but i tried that and it didn't work, may be i inserted the wrong command
[21:03:54] <leito> i red in a forum or something the command but when i tried it, it did't work
[21:07:01] <micges> leito: in your config directory are *.hal files, find that one with 'loadrt [EMCMOT]EMCMOT...'
[21:07:17] <leito> yes, got it
[21:08:08] <micges> at end of that line put: ' num_dio=8'
[21:08:22] <micges> then you will have 8 IO signals
[21:08:53] <leito> ok let me see if it works
[21:09:07] <micges> check it with halmeter
[21:11:22] <leito> it doesnt work, it says the same error that happened before, unknow symbol in module...
[21:11:38] <leito> i have the 2.2.5 version if that helps..
[21:17:04] <micges> update to 2.2.8 and try again
[21:17:30] <micges> if this wont help pastebin your ini and hal files
[21:18:13] <leito> ok, thank you very much, i'll update and then i tell you if it works
[21:23:49] <jepler> micges: I am pretty sure that even in 2.2.8 EMCMOT_MAX_DIO is defined to 4
[21:23:54] <jepler> only on TRUNK is the limit higher
[21:28:50] <micges> ok I see
[21:29:09] <micges> thanks
[21:31:30] <leito> so the limit until the 2.2.8 version is 4 digital i/o ?
[21:32:42] <micges> leito: yes, configurable limit will be in 2.3
[21:33:35] <leito> so, the only thing i can do is wait to the new version? or i can edit the modmot module?
[21:34:07] <micges> you can dowload source and compile it
[21:34:54] <leito> i need to download the source, you mean that i can not edit the module that i have with the default .iso installation?
[21:35:01] <SWPadnos> correct
[21:35:04] <leito> sorry but i'm new in linux
[21:35:12] <SWPadnos> you change a .ko file by getting the source and recompiling
[21:36:00] <leito> thanks, i understand, well i will try to recompile the source .. the good thing is that i'll learn more about linux
[21:36:23] <SWPadnos> yes, that is a good thing :)
[21:36:28] <leito> and if i can't do it i'll wait for the new version
[21:36:41] <SWPadnos> there are instructions on the EMC wiki
[21:36:58] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_6_06_or_8_04_from_source
[21:37:13] <jepler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_6_06_or_8_04_from_source -- you would want to follow step 2.1, then follow step 2.2 to get the "v2_2_branch", then follow step 2.3, then follow step 2.6.
[21:37:14] <SWPadnos> you can skip the parts about emc-install.sh and installing emc itself
[21:37:49] <leito> i'll check them out.. thank you very much you are very helpful with me
[21:39:18] <leito> the matter with this.. is that i need more digital pins because we are automating a cam grinder and a cilindrical grinder
[21:39:37] <leito> and both grinders have the mechanical joint and another one hydraulic
[21:39:53] <micges> good hight all
[21:40:07] <leito> so i need switches to check that the hydraulic joint is retracted or not
[21:41:09] <SWPadnos> you might be able to use some HAL components or classicladder to detect the state of the machine, and use fewer motion controller inputs
[21:41:33] <SWPadnos> but if you have g-code that expects to use inputs, then that's not going to work as well
[21:41:57] <leito> yes.. well i need to use the inputs with the g code because
[21:42:46] <leito> we make camshafts.. so when the machine retracts the hydraulic charriot, we need to info to the emc that the charriot reached the position and then the g code continues with the next lube
[21:42:57] <leito> lube or cam i don't know how can i say it in english
[21:43:13] <SWPadnos> no problem, I more or less understand :)
[21:43:17] <cradek> lobe
[21:43:21] <archivist> lobe
[21:43:23] <leito> thanks :)
[21:43:36] <archivist> lube==oil
[21:43:40] <leito> i'm argentinian so i'm not used to speak in english
[21:43:42] <cradek> you were close enough that I could guess
[21:44:29] <SWPadnos> I would probably have guesses if I had known that separate cams on a shaft are called lobes :)
[21:44:33] <SWPadnos> guessed
[21:45:03] <cradek> I agree in 2.2 the number is 4 and you can only change it by recompiling
[21:45:14] <cradek> in 2.3 the number can be changed without recompiling
[21:45:38] <jepler> I suspect but don't know for sure that it's a one-line change in 2.2 to increase it
[21:45:40] <SWPadnos> what about the float inputs (or are there any int ones?_
[21:45:42] <SWPadnos> )
[21:45:53] <cradek> SWPadnos: also 4
[21:46:10] <SWPadnos> yes, buta single float can be composed of many input bits
[21:46:39] <SWPadnos> so a hal component could look at 10 inputs (for example), and give a single number that represents a "position"
[21:47:18] <leito> that was for me?
[21:47:31] <jepler> least convenient breakout board ever: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8877
[21:47:33] <SWPadnos> sort of
[21:48:23] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:48:25] <leito> the other thing that i can do is to use a timer in the g code, but the idea of using swithces is for make the machine safer
[21:48:30] <SWPadnos> try finding a header for that one
[21:48:40] <SWPadnos> how are the switches arranged?
[21:49:03] <SWPadnos> do they turn on one by one as the chariot is moved, is only one on at at time? ...
[21:49:46] <leito> the idea is to put two of then.. one in the begining and another one in the end of the path
[21:50:03] <leito> them
[21:50:43] <leito> just to inform to the emc where is the hydraulic chariot
[21:51:35] <SWPadnos> phone - sorry
[21:51:45] <leito> no problem
[21:52:30] <leito> so the only thing that the switches do is to tell if the chariot is retracted or extended
[21:57:02] <leito> well i tried in 2.2.8 (just to try) but didn't worked
[23:23:38] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Telegraph - sorry
[23:23:59] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Pony Express - sorry
[23:24:07] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Smoke signals - sorry
[23:24:23] <SWPadnos> may I suggest IRC?
[23:24:41] <SWPadnos> my cell phone was off all day, if you were trying to reach me (sorry)
[23:24:46] <archivist> morse code
[23:25:09] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: ug ug Cave Paintings - sorry
[23:25:29] <SWPadnos> I only understand 50000 year old French cave paintings
[23:25:41] <JymmmEMC> archivist: dont remind me, I need to start learning
[23:26:14] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: [Walk like an engyptian] Hyrogliiphics - sorry
[23:26:32] <SWPadnos> I walk like an egyptian all the time
[23:26:42] <SWPadnos> as far as I know, they walked the same as us :)
[23:26:44] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: You wild and crazy guy!
[23:26:52] <SWPadnos> (not that the Bangles did)
[23:26:55] <archivist> JymmmEMC, what actually learning morse, not really needed these days
[23:27:06] <SWPadnos> ham license may still
[23:27:17] <JymmmEMC> archivist: Doesn't matter if not a requirement
[23:27:28] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Not a lic rew anymore
[23:27:31] <JymmmEMC> req
[23:27:38] <SWPadnos> ah
[23:27:50] <archivist> * archivist was G8NND
[23:27:52] <pjm_> archivist we decoded a message off that iranian satellite this evening!
[23:28:00] <JymmmEMC> archivist: I still think it's a vialable communications method during rought traffic
[23:28:06] <archivist> pjm_, well done
[23:28:23] <pjm_> archivist it was some 'propaganda' ;-) there is a dump on hearsat.org
[23:28:29] <JymmmEMC> archivist: where the hell is G8 ?
[23:28:44] <archivist> class B license
[23:28:51] <JymmmEMC> archivist: WHERE, not what =)
[23:28:57] <archivist> never did the morse
[23:29:02] <archivist> UK
[23:29:05] <JymmmEMC> archivist: ah
[23:31:04] <JymmmEMC> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090204/ap_on_re_us/highway_signs_zombies
[23:31:34] <archivist> pjm_, hmm Manchester in July
[23:46:53] <skunkworksemc> 48 hours.. I can probably stop this test... ;) http://imagebin.ca/view/N8H2PIkw.html
[23:47:35] <SWPadnos> did you ever do a large-ish memory load?
[23:47:56] <SWPadnos> I just had mine running for a while, and the numbers were around 3500 and 4500
[23:48:09] <SWPadnos> then I ran synaptic (updates available you know :) )
[23:48:48] <SWPadnos> that required me to enter my password, which coincided with a spike to around 9000 (or 7900 - I don't remember for sure)
[23:49:31] <SWPadnos> I did the updates, and it went up a little more during that time. I think to the mid 8000s (so the other one must not have been 9000 :) )
[23:49:45] <skunkworks> let me update..
[23:50:09] <SWPadnos> I had two glxgears running also, though it probably doesn't matter
[23:50:27] <skunkworksemc> onboard vidoe?
[23:50:35] <SWPadnos> yes
[23:51:04] <SWPadnos> at 1280x1024 or 1024x768 I think, to keep the noise down
[23:51:14] <skunkworksemc> heh
[23:51:47] <SWPadnos> I just ordered a couple of video cards for these machines, so we'll see what happens with nv instead
[23:52:38] <skunkworksemc> http://imagebin.ca/view/sV9b6fNr.html
[23:52:46] <skunkworksemc> I will post when it is done
[23:52:55] <SWPadnos> ok
[23:53:06] <SWPadnos> the jump happened when I initially had to enter my password
[23:53:13] <skunkworksemc> ah - no then.
[23:53:13] <SWPadnos> oh
[23:53:20] <SWPadnos> you didn't run synaptic, that's update manager
[23:53:38] <skunkworksemc> I will do that next - update manager did ask for my password
[23:53:51] <SWPadnos> you can cancel, it won't hurt anything
[23:54:09] <SWPadnos> then run synaptic, mark all upgrades, and apply
[23:55:19] <skunkworksemc> it is doing the updates it has downloaded..
[23:55:25] <skunkworksemc> I cannot cancel that.
[23:55:51] <SWPadnos> ok