#emc | Logs for 2009-01-20

[00:00:13] <KimK> Then we wouldn't have too choose between having too many "extra" choices, and having a wanted choice be unavailable. (Or messing with configs, yuk.)
[00:03:20] <KimK> oops, "have too choose" = have to choose
[00:03:47] <KimK> OK, I'll quit flooding now, LOL
[01:23:06] <tomp> is there a symbol for an alternate action pushbutton? ( aka push-push on-on )
[01:24:11] <eric_unterhausen> yeah
[01:25:51] <tomp> the mechanical thingy, not a flop
[01:26:17] <eric_unterhausen> for what kind of drawing?
[01:26:56] <tomp> any, i'll make an Orcad symbol if i can see it
[01:27:33] <tomp> is it a swx contact with 2 arrows underneath?
[01:28:55] <eric_unterhausen> haha, telegraph key
[01:29:23] <tomp> frankenstein switch
[01:29:36] <eric_unterhausen> I didnt' see a knife switch
[01:30:37] <tomp> i found eaton (cutler hammer) bt the symbols dont infer the toggl action at all
[01:31:39] <eric_unterhausen> I've never seen a mechanical monostable switch from one of those type companies
[01:32:09] <tomp> ya know you shoud be able to mentally animate the thingy if its a reasonable representation
[01:32:21] <eric_unterhausen> it's always been companies like oak
[01:32:48] <tomp> http://delta.octopart.com/Eaton_W103W2.pdf
[01:33:39] <tomp> googling oak pushbutton is a swamp of non pushbuttons
[01:33:42] <eric_unterhausen> for some reason i get access denied
[01:33:56] <eric_unterhausen> I couldn't think of a pushbutton manufacturer, sorry
[01:34:37] <tomp> thanks
[01:34:40] <eric_unterhausen> cutler hammer makes industrial pushbuttons, the monostable ones are more consumer level
[01:35:47] <tomp> ? start conveyor, stop conveyor without plc ( or chance of plc error , hardwired like estops )
[01:35:53] <eric_unterhausen> but there has to be an ansi or mil standard symbol for such a thing, how do you design an airplane?
[01:36:27] <eric_unterhausen> cutler hammer/AB would probably want you to do that with relays
[01:40:18] <eric_unterhausen> limit switch has a symbol
[01:42:35] <eric_unterhausen> closest I found was "Positive opening, latching with twist to reset"
[01:43:23] <eric_unterhausen> IEC 617 symbol for E-stop is fun
[01:53:15] <tomp> ok, its like a knife swx, but (i imagine) it means the arm is shorting the left or right sets of contacts http://imagebin.ca/view/plES2h.html
[01:53:59] <tomp> it >looks< like a knofe swx
[01:54:20] <eric_unterhausen> I'm not buyin' that as the correct switch
[01:54:34] <tomp> irc showed me nada
[01:54:45] <tomp> iec ( damnit tiny kbd)
[01:54:59] <eric_unterhausen> has to be an IEC symbol for that
[01:56:40] <KimK> Back in 1 hour+ (time for "24")
[01:56:54] <eric_unterhausen> 24 is evil
[01:57:03] <KimK> heh
[01:57:19] <eric_unterhausen> too many people think it's real
[02:01:53] <tomp> ah! its the lever ont top og the shorting bar and a ghost lever laning other way (so sayeth the IEC )
[02:02:03] <tomp> on top of
[02:02:21] <tomp> (note to self dont buy another eeepc )
[02:03:28] <tomp> oops thats ansi, iec has a wiggly bit on the mechanicl link on actuator to shorting bar
[02:03:45] <tomp> ic code SA
[02:04:19] <eric_unterhausen> I thought about going downstairs and looking for my ansi drafting book, but I was too lazy
[02:04:36] <tomp> np thjanks for the hints
[02:16:47] <tomp> http://info.bannersalesforce.com/xpedio/groups/public/documents/literature/ms_t8_s3_e.pdf
[02:17:10] <tomp> one page pf of ansi and iec symbos for power
[02:17:19] <eric_unterhausen> I saw that, which one is your switch?
[02:17:37] <eric_unterhausen> "selector switch"?
[02:18:19] <tomp> yep
[02:18:33] <eric_unterhausen> should have given you that link
[02:18:44] <tomp> SA in iec speak, SS in ansi
[02:18:57] <tomp> i read your mind :)
[02:59:45] <JymmmEMC> eric_unterhausen: what makes you think '24' isn;t real?
[03:00:15] <eric_unterhausen> not to get into that discussion on here
[03:00:36] <JymmmEMC> lol
[03:10:59] <KimK> I'm back from "24". It's not that people think it's real, it's that people think it's relevant to reality. But since discussion of "24" is off-topic, discussion of "24" will continue in #emc-24. All are welcome.
[03:26:53] <eric_unterhausen> sometimes hitting paste is a really bad idea
[03:27:22] <eric_unterhausen> Is SWPadnos in DC writing speeches?
[03:28:57] <KimK> Since I am a slow typist who types long answers, #emc-24 is now closed, LOL. But you never know, it might come around again.
[03:29:57] <eric_unterhausen> my understanding is that archivist convinced you to design a usb to stepper drive device, so get to work
[03:33:29] <KimK> Is that for me? I recall only the recent here-reported post (from what, cnczone?) where several people had a lot of fun lampooning a "that should be easy" assertion by someone. It was very funny.
[03:33:52] <eric_unterhausen> KimK: ok, that was too easy
[03:34:14] <eric_unterhausen> archivist said there is a synchronous mode that might work if anyone could figure it out
[03:35:24] <KimK> Interesting. I'll place my future bets on RTnet, though. Is there a length limit on USB2 ?
[03:37:05] <eric_unterhausen> I thought regular mode has (x)k blocks, where x is something I would never be able to remember more than a few minutes
[03:37:48] <KimK> Oh, I didn't specify. I meant cable length limit.
[03:38:01] <eric_unterhausen> 5 meters
[03:38:06] <eric_unterhausen> that one I know
[03:38:58] <KimK> Yeah, there's another drawback. 17(?) feet isn't long enough for some machines.
[03:39:21] <eric_unterhausen> it certainly is for the class of machines that would probably use it
[03:39:25] <KimK> 300 feet, on the other hand...
[03:40:17] <KimK> Yeah, that's a good point, all tabletop steppers. Yeah, might work.
[03:41:54] <KimK> OK, *you* get to work on it right away, LOL
[03:42:52] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, I'll get right on that
[03:43:21] <eric_unterhausen> actually, any time I'm tempted to do something like that, I realize a pc with a parport is cheaper than anything I could hang off of a usb port
[03:44:40] <eric_unterhausen> this has been obvious for at least the last 10 years
[03:45:39] <KimK> I hope someday to mess around with a parallel port and steppers configuration, just for fun, even without a machine to put it on. I'd just like to get a little more familiar with the config that most people are using with EMC2. But, first things first.
[03:46:25] <eric_unterhausen> it's a blast
[03:46:57] <eric_unterhausen> I scored some cheap drivers from ebay, it's well worth it for the amusment factor
[03:47:20] <DanielFalck> what does the 'teach-in.py' script do? I saw it in the axis/scripts folder
[03:47:32] <DanielFalck> the comments aren't clear
[03:49:04] <DanielFalck> looks like it writes machine movement to a file
[03:49:25] <jmkasunich> maybe for robot teaching?
[03:49:48] <DanielFalck> that might be it
[03:49:50] <jmkasunich> jog to a spot, hit a button to say "here is a spot on the toolpath", jog to next, hit button again, etc
[03:50:51] <DanielFalck> that's what I was hoping it was. thanks
[03:50:53] <eric_unterhausen> I saw some guys doing that on an aircraft wing, I was thinking that was a job one step up from a qtip tester
[03:52:07] <KimK> I too have a set (2? 3?) of NOS stepper drivers. I don't think they microstep, though. Half-step, probably. Finer? Not sure, don't recall. I have no parallel port device though. I should get them out.
[03:52:39] <eric_unterhausen> half step is better, if you have 4, you can play music in harmony
[03:52:57] <KimK> heh
[03:54:06] <jmkasunich> eric_unterhausen: you wouldn't happen to be the EricJ who added the intel D945GCLF2 board to the latency test results on the wiki?
[03:54:37] <eric_unterhausen> don't think so
[03:54:42] <eric_unterhausen> was it recent?
[03:54:47] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:54:50] <jmkasunich> jan 9 and 11
[03:54:52] <eric_unterhausen> nope
[03:54:57] <jmkasunich> ok
[03:55:03] <jmkasunich> I'm curious about the test conditions, etc
[03:55:08] <jmkasunich> I just ordered one of those
[03:55:16] <jmkasunich> nice small board, 6.75" square
[03:55:23] <eric_unterhausen> I thought about testing this computer, but I'm not going to use it for emc
[03:55:32] <jmkasunich> $100 with CPU, 512M ram, and shipping
[03:55:40] <eric_unterhausen> newegg?
[03:55:53] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:56:13] <jmkasunich> although the board seems to be available about everywhere, for between $85 and $90
[03:56:22] <eric_unterhausen> it's an atom
[03:56:25] <jmkasunich> CPU is included with the board
[03:56:26] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:56:32] <eric_unterhausen> I was wondering if they would work with rtai
[03:57:05] <jmkasunich> a guy from EDN magazine reviewed and tested several mini-ITX boards (not for RT) in the latest issue, that one did quite well
[03:57:07] <eric_unterhausen> I have some robots I'd like to put one in, beats mounting laptops
[03:59:20] <eric_unterhausen> funny, someone mentioned emc2 on one of the atom reviews
[03:59:28] <eric_unterhausen> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121342
[04:00:43] <jmkasunich> not happily....
[04:00:58] <jmkasunich> "LAN must be disable to install ubuntu 8.04"
[04:01:01] <jmkasunich> that seems odd
[04:01:03] <eric_unterhausen> I wonder about the driver issue
[04:01:09] <eric_unterhausen> sounds like user error
[04:01:15] <jmkasunich> yeah
[04:01:26] <eric_unterhausen> because the live cd doesn't have all the drivers built
[04:01:49] <eric_unterhausen> somebody was whining about that on here a month ago
[04:02:54] <jmkasunich> several other reviewers report success with stock 8.04
[04:03:06] <jmkasunich> so its either user error, or we left off a driver or two
[04:03:27] <eric_unterhausen> pretty sure it's the latter
[04:05:49] <jmkasunich> argh, I'm flunking algebra here
[04:07:14] <jmkasunich> intersection of the line x = m*(y-h) and circle x^2 = r^2 - y^2
[04:07:32] <jmkasunich> square both sides of the line equation, so it is x^2 = blah
[04:07:49] <jmkasunich> set the two equations equal to each other and solve for y
[04:08:04] <jmkasunich> its a quadratic in y, use quadratic formula, get wrong answer
[04:08:11] <cradek> ha
[04:08:20] <cradek> two wrong answers
[04:08:22] <cradek> ?
[04:08:39] <jmkasunich> I know which answer I want, so I only evaluate one
[04:08:52] <cradek> what's h?
[04:08:59] <jmkasunich> a constant
[04:09:26] <cradek> are you sure the equations match your line and circle?
[04:09:32] <jmkasunich> the line is a ray coming out of the camera lens towards the mirror
[04:09:37] <jmkasunich> the circle is the mirror
[04:09:47] <jmkasunich> the coordinate system is centered on the mirror
[04:10:06] <jmkasunich> h is the distance between mirror and camera
[04:10:45] <jmkasunich> I'm about 99% sure the equations match my line and circle
[04:11:04] <jmkasunich> I'm 100% sure that my calculated intersection doesn't work,
[04:11:24] <jmkasunich> I plugged the calculated Y back into both equations, they x's don't match
[04:11:31] <jmkasunich> not even close
[04:12:04] <jmkasunich> so I did something wrong in the "set the two equations for x^2 equal to each other and solve for y" step
[04:12:24] <jmkasunich> but I've re-done it twice, and verified that the code matches my algebra
[04:12:52] <jmkasunich> duh
[04:13:23] <jmkasunich> -b +/- sqrt(b^2-4ac) / 2a is the quadratic formula
[04:13:42] <cradek> ...?
[04:13:45] <jmkasunich> not -b +/- sqrt(b^2-4ac) / 4ac
[04:13:54] <cradek> doh
[04:14:01] <cradek> and now I will stop working it out
[04:14:24] <jmkasunich> yep, works much better now
[04:16:13] <eric_unterhausen> my daughter's algebra problems kicked my behind
[04:16:50] <eric_unterhausen> one of the problems could be done with trig, but she hasn't had trig yet :)
[04:17:03] <DanielFalck> jmkasunich: http://pastebin.ca/1313131
[04:17:52] <jmkasunich> DanielFalck: whipped that out just now, eh? ;-)
[04:17:54] <jmkasunich> thanks
[04:18:09] <DanielFalck> no, ha! that's from cadvas.py
[04:19:45] <DanielFalck> jmkasunich: here's the rest of that program: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/cadvas-0.2.2/
[04:19:48] <eric_unterhausen> if newegg is selling a dvd burner for $20 shipped, that means it costs about 50 cents to make
[04:23:57] <eric_unterhausen> rarely see fenn participating any more
[04:24:19] <jmkasunich> he must be busy
[04:24:26] <jmkasunich> is he in school?
[04:24:31] <jmkasunich> (college)
[04:24:34] <eric_unterhausen> believe so, school is like that
[04:24:58] <eric_unterhausen> at some point you get really tired of grad school and drop everything but graduating
[04:25:20] <jmkasunich> I need a more convex mirror - my math agrees with what I saw in testing, the FOV with this one is too limited
[04:26:20] <eric_unterhausen> someone I know threatened to start making mirrors for telescopes, but he gave up the hobby first
[04:26:51] <eric_unterhausen> he makes flat mirrors instead
[04:36:03] <eric_unterhausen> I assume this guy is known to everyone here but me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2BBjQopArE
[04:36:15] <eric_unterhausen> dngarrett
[04:37:20] <DanielFalck> He does some nice work
[04:43:03] <eric_unterhausen> that's a nice looking machine
[05:00:09] <eric_unterhausen> is it illegal to clear snow from a public street in most places?
[05:01:05] <eric_unterhausen> I'm building a bicycle snowplow http://www-bdnew.fnal.gov/pbar/organizationalchart/peterson/snowplow_files/Bike_Plow.html
[05:15:06] <tomp> eh? batavia, thats next door to me ( when im home :) its the next town downriver from elgin, you work at fermilabs?
[05:15:20] <eric_unterhausen> no, I'm in PA
[05:15:38] <eric_unterhausen> that guy has been using his bicycle snowplow for 6 years
[05:16:34] <eric_unterhausen> I need a job, but my family would disown me if I moved to Illinois
[05:16:53] <tomp> wow i even rcognize the trail along the fox river
[05:17:31] <eric_unterhausen> is that the unplowed one?
[05:21:41] <tomp> all of "Photos on the Path", yep near Geneva ( neighbor of Batavia )
[05:22:46] <tomp> man i dont need homesick now, bye bye
[05:23:14] <eric_unterhausen> I was going to remind him it was 20 below there :O
[06:16:57] <eric_unterhausen> BigJohnT_ Tomp is making me feel bad for making him homesick
[06:17:51] <eric_unterhausen> I didn't do that
[11:33:27] <micges> what is in english "material smoothing-out" ?
[11:33:50] <micges> preparing material for making parts
[11:40:59] <BigJohnT> hmmm
[11:42:41] <BigJohnT> roughing is removing lots of material before finishing
[11:42:46] <archivist> what does google translation say
[11:43:12] <BigJohnT> squaring is getting the material square
[11:43:18] <BigJohnT> just guessing
[11:43:22] <archivist> or is it the fettling one does to a casting
[11:45:21] <archivist> and if related to straightening sheet for laser , rolling
[11:49:06] <micges> I think the best is fettling
[11:49:37] <micges> thanks
[11:50:46] <archivist> thats knocking/grinding off sprues etc
[11:51:01] <BigJohnT> I've never even heard of it :)
[11:51:12] <micges> hehe
[11:52:06] <archivist> helps to read old books BigJohnT :)
[11:52:37] <KimK> I've never heard of it either, and dictionary.com was not much help. "To remove sand from a casting"(?)
[11:53:20] <archivist> http://www.springerlink.com/content/j1mc172laqp81ned/
[11:53:28] <KimK> Is it a Britishism? Like lorry, etc?
[11:53:38] <BigJohnT> I've got an old book but it is about hill people and making moonshine :)
[11:55:15] <archivist> I dont thinks its a british only term, certainly its a foundry term
[11:55:25] <KimK> Not a Britishism, an Austrailianism?
[11:55:49] <archivist> http://www.a-m.co.uk/Foundry/circular.htm
[11:56:37] <archivist> ah the best http://www.fettling.co.uk/aspbite/categories/index.asp?intCatID=35
[11:57:26] <KimK> So far all the examples have been .uk or .au
[11:57:28] <archivist> maybe not the best
[11:57:49] <KimK> OK, well, we accept it anyway
[11:58:14] <KimK> Maybe we (Yanks?) should travel more?
[11:58:28] <archivist> hehe yes
[11:59:24] <KimK> But not to .au or .uk please, say the Aussies and the Brits, LOL?
[12:00:34] <archivist> we need your moneyz as well so we will let you into the UK :)
[12:01:06] <piasdom> g'mornin/day/evenin all
[12:01:18] <KimK> Yes, we have the same problem. Come visit us too
[12:01:18] <micges> hello :)
[12:01:25] <piasdom> :)
[12:02:02] <piasdom> hwat's the url to post a picture ?
[12:02:39] <BigJohnT> http://imagebin.ca/
[12:02:53] <archivist> KimK, I did my bit a few years back, went to Dayton, Chicago,South Bend and Detroit
[12:03:39] <KimK> Very good, I hope you enjoyed your stay (or travels)?
[12:04:06] <archivist> yup
[12:05:28] <KimK> Sounds like a tour of manufacturing centers? You said a few years ago, so I assume you got to see them while they were still operating? ;)
[12:05:52] <piasdom> BigJohnT: Thanks
[12:06:18] <archivist> Cam accros for the Dayton hamvention, the rest was touring around holiday
[12:07:34] <KimK> I never made it to the Hamvention, kind of quit following it. Has attendance dwindled over the years?
[12:08:23] <BigJohnT> np
[12:08:39] <pjm_> archivist afternoon, might you know a decant source of timing pulleys and belts over here?
[12:08:45] <archivist> it was 15 years ago and only went once, dunno how it is these days
[12:08:56] <archivist> pjm_, a few
[12:09:22] <pjm_> BigJohnT hi, re my testing from y/day with the velocity mode on the pendant, it seems to work nicely, when u stop turning the handle the machine stops, it dont cache or buffer any of the steps
[12:09:22] <archivist> Duval, HPC
[12:09:42] <archivist> Daval
[12:10:09] <archivist> pjm_, did you manage to get that network analyser
[12:10:44] <BigJohnT> pjm_: how did you change to velocity mode (I can't remember) :/
[12:11:28] <pjm_> BigJohnT one sec i'll check the config file
[12:11:48] <BigJohnT> ok, thanks
[12:12:12] <pjm_> setp encoder.0.x4-mode 0 changed to setp encoder.0.x4-mode 1 in the hal file
[12:12:24] <pjm_> archivist no the guy had gotten rid of it
[12:12:35] <BigJohnT> ok, I'll ad that to the wiki site thanks
[12:13:03] <archivist> pjm_, shame :(
[12:13:58] <pjm_> archivist yeah its typical init... oh well... so re the timing pulleys i'm basically looking to replace my v-belt drive and DC motor with a 3phase job, and i want to ensure nothing can move hence needing a toothed belt
[12:15:51] <archivist> HPC in chesterfield, Daval down south somewhere, some local trade stockist have the drive stuff like that
[12:16:38] <piasdom> how do check my step time and step space ? (sherline stepper motor)
[12:18:48] <archivist> I would use an oscilloscope
[12:19:04] <archivist> but what do you mean by check
[12:22:28] <piasdom> in stepconf i have http://imagebin.ca/view/7xCNlTEV.html
[12:22:53] <BigJohnT> pjm_: I've updated the manual and the wiki site
[12:23:11] <pjm_> ah excellent, nice one!
[12:23:24] <pjm_> yeah the velocity mode seems good also
[12:23:29] <piasdom> been looking online and i seen where steptime is 500 and step space is 5000 . was wondering if i am wrong or they had a typo
[12:23:59] <archivist> piasdom, yours is set very slow
[12:24:30] <KimK> Can you use halscope?
[12:25:10] <piasdom> well, i removed the sherline controller card and made its' own box and get it a separate power supply
[12:25:51] <piasdom> getting a 512 video card today/tomorrow and want to do see it all is ok now
[12:26:13] <piasdom> KinK:how do i get to halscope ?
[12:27:08] <KimK> one moment... or anybody else jump right in if you know
[12:27:27] <piasdom> KimK: thanks
[12:27:42] <BigJohnT> it is on the Machine menu
[12:28:13] <archivist> this is a basic setting up problem, speeds and latency
[12:29:04] <BigJohnT> piasdom: step time and step space can be backwards if your pin is set up different from what the controller is looking for
[12:29:32] <KimK> I have the answer, here it is: "Complete operating instructions should be located here eventually. "
[12:30:09] <BigJohnT> if your controller is looking for a high for 500 and a low for 5000 and you have the pin set the other way around...
[12:30:19] <KimK> hang on, there's another place to look, brb
[12:30:25] <piasdom> archvist:that is what i'm trying to fix...my latency
[12:31:14] <piasdom> BigJohnT; that is not my stepconf..it's one i found on the web mine is at http://imagebin.ca/view/7xCNlTEV.html
[12:31:30] <piasdom> i have 500 for both
[12:31:33] <piasdom> 5000
[12:31:35] <KimK> OK, this is better. "halcmd: loadusr halscope"
[12:32:11] <KimK> brb
[12:35:06] <piasdom> i got the scope...but i get "realtime function not linked"
[12:35:16] <piasdom> KimK : thanks
[12:46:42] <BigJohnT> piasdom: what are you trying to see on the scope?
[12:47:34] <piasdom> don't know what the scope shows...trying to see what my step time and step space is
[12:48:42] <piasdom> BigJohnT : i separted the sherline controller card from my computer to fix my latency trouble
[12:48:42] <archivist> piasdom, whatever you set on your numbers
[12:49:30] <piasdom> archvist : so i set the values ? i don't set them to the motor ?
[12:50:15] <piasdom> and why don't my halscope work :( ?
[12:50:51] <archivist> you dont need halsope to fix latency
[12:51:15] <piasdom> archvist : then i'm looking in the wrong places
[12:51:47] <piasdom> i'll start over...thenks
[12:52:33] <piasdom> one more ? ...does it matter if i use a wireless mouse or cabled ?
[12:52:57] <BigJohnT> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?FixingSMIIssues
[12:53:12] <BigJohnT> should not matter AFAIK
[12:53:38] <BigJohnT> piasdom: is your latency so high that you can not get the speed you want from your steppers?
[12:54:42] <piasdom> BigJohnT : i saw that but i looked in my file ...it doesn't show any smi .so i thought i didn'y use it
[12:55:53] <archivist> in what file
[12:56:02] <piasdom> i am talking about my rtai.conf file
[12:56:22] <BigJohnT> piasdom: is your latency so high that you can not get the speed you want from your steppers?
[12:56:44] <piasdom> BigJohnT : i get the realtime error
[12:57:19] <piasdom> BigJohnT : and ya'll said it was my latency
[12:57:28] <piasdom> so i was trying to fix that
[12:57:59] <BigJohnT> ok, and then you raise up the number until you quit getting the realtime error
[12:58:37] <BigJohnT> The Latency test result number
[12:58:43] <piasdom> BigJohnT : which ? time/space ?
[12:58:55] <BigJohnT> neither of those
[12:59:14] <BigJohnT> on the basic machine info page the Latency test result number
[12:59:37] <piasdom> last time i did a lat it was 27384(run all weekend) but that is before i removed the controller card
[12:59:43] <KimK> back
[12:59:54] <BigJohnT> ok set the number to 30000
[13:00:42] <piasdom> i want to get the video card installed then i'll run lat .get the card today/tomorrow
[13:00:53] <BigJohnT> ok
[13:01:49] <piasdom> BigJohnT : but while i'm waiting...i wanted to see if all my stepconf was correct to my machine
[13:02:03] <piasdom> so i was looking at time/soace
[13:02:11] <piasdom> space
[13:03:38] <BigJohnT> what kind of driver do you have?
[13:05:28] <piasdom> for what ?
[13:05:47] <BigJohnT> for your steppers
[13:06:07] <piasdom> emc2
[13:06:18] <archivist> hardware!!
[13:06:20] <BigJohnT> your hardware
[13:06:31] <piasdom> don't know
[13:06:52] <piasdom> the controller card ?
[13:06:58] <BigJohnT> yes
[13:07:02] <archivist> * archivist assumes the bog standard sherline
[13:07:04] <piasdom> sherline
[13:07:11] <piasdom> :)
[13:07:25] <BigJohnT> this has been updated http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Stepper_Drive_Timing
[13:08:26] <piasdom> BigJohnT : can i use that model ?... i have model 5400
[13:08:54] <BigJohnT> I don't know if they are the same
[13:09:05] <piasdom> i'll call sherline ...but they won't help me...i'll try
[13:09:07] <archivist> test and tell us
[13:09:16] <pjm_> btw could someone point me in the direction on how to get emc2 to see other file extensions by default, not just ngc's
[13:09:23] <piasdom> archvist : i'll do that
[13:09:29] <KimK> archivist: So standard Sherline means no special controller card, just parallel port connections?
[13:09:29] <BigJohnT> if your numbers are higher than you need it will work fine
[13:10:02] <BigJohnT> got to be something there between the parallel port and the steppers
[13:10:02] <piasdom> i'll let ya'll know ... brb
[13:10:07] <archivist> KimK, I have no idea
[13:10:42] <BigJohnT> piasdom: if you put those numbers in and it does not work then invert the step pins and try again
[13:11:02] <piasdom> BigJohnT : K
[13:11:27] <KimK> archivist: OK, I was just trying to follow along. I'm unfamiliar with the basic parallel port and stepper setup that many (most?) are using
[13:11:56] <BigJohnT> past time for me to head out guys so talk to you later
[13:12:14] <KimK> OK BigJohnT thanks
[13:12:15] <archivist> KimK, Im using stepper but not got close to a sherline
[13:12:24] <KimK> Oops too slow
[13:13:15] <KimK> What are you using? Building your own?
[13:13:24] <KimK> Machine, I mean
[13:18:41] <archivist> me , home brew 4 axis at the moment, 5 when I finish a trunnion
[13:18:58] <archivist> mill
[13:21:29] <KimK> So your spindle remains vertical? That's probably best in most cases, I'd guess.
[13:22:07] <piasdom> toalllistening : the values don't move the mill
[13:23:11] <piasdom> BigjohnT : you said to invert the step pins ... the directions for all three axis ?
[13:23:22] <KimK> It doesn't move at all now? And it did before?
[13:24:02] <KimK> Sorry, piasdom, BigJohnT said goodnight. We'll try to help if we can.
[13:24:20] <piasdom> KimK : correct ,i'm trying a few things to fix my latency
[13:24:39] <piasdom> KimK : didn't see him go
[13:26:12] <piasdom> KimK : to answer your question eariler sherline has a controller card off the printer port
[13:28:52] <KimK> OK. So there is something beyond just the parallel port, then. And you don't have a second copy of the card to trade off for testing, do you?
[13:35:08] <piasdom> KimK : no sorry... wish i did
[13:35:38] <piasdom> would me glad trade off
[13:46:12] <skunkworks_> piasdom: wat are you using for the sherline configs? There are some tested ones in the cvs.
[13:46:50] <skunkworks_> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/configs/Sherline3Axis/
[13:46:58] <skunkworks_> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/configs/Sherline4Axis/
[13:47:39] <jepler> on the m5i20 are the pull-ups and the pin-49 VCC both the same voltage? I'm trying to figure out how best to run an SSR from the 5i20 for spindle on/off control. The presence of those pull-ups makes me think that I need to have VCC ---|>--- Mesa Output Pin so that the SSR turns on when the mesa output is low.
[13:59:34] <piasdom> skunkworks:thanks...i'll try that and let ya'll know
[14:03:40] <BigJohnTatWork> BigJohnTatWork is now known as BigJohnT
[14:05:34] <KimK> jepler: from the 5i20 manual: The power connection on the I/O connectors can supply either 3.3V or 5V power... When W1, W2 or W3 are in the left position, 5V power is supplied to the connector and associated pullup resistors. When W1, W2, or W3 are in the right position, 3.3V is supplied. Does that help?
[14:06:45] <KimK> jepler: Also, doesn't the 5i20 have driver functions to invert the output state if needed?
[14:13:53] <KimK> 5i20 manual again: Note that even though the 5I20s FPGA can tolerate 5V signal inputs, its outputs will not swing to 5V. The outputs are push pull CMOS outputs that will drive to the output supply rail of 3.3V. This is sufficient for TTL compatibility but may cause problems with some types of loads.
[14:13:59] <KimK> For example when driving an LED that has its anode connected to 5V, the 3.3V high level may not completely turn the LED off. To avoid this problem, either drive loads that are ground referred, Use 3.3V as the VCC for VCC referred loads, or tristate the output signals when no drive is desired (open drain).
[14:16:31] <eric_unterhausen> in the grand tradition of electrical engineering, I would steal my circuit from Anders Wallin's board that he designed for the m5i20
[14:23:22] <piasdom> skunkworks : this is my current stepconf http://imagebin.ca/view/BaYTYsiV.html .... loading the one you suggested ..brb
[14:26:09] <jepler> KimK: aha, I missed that "and". That addresses my concern, I think
[14:28:13] <piasdom> skunkworks : and i get this error with the suggested file http://paste.org/index.php?id=4914
[14:31:09] <KimK> jepler: OK. Also, the 5i20 is supposed to be Opto-22 compatible, so I was going to pull up an Opto-22 (board/module) data sheet and an Opto-22 (stand-alone SSR) data sheet and see how they compare. I downloaded a bunch and now I'm having trouble finding them
[14:31:34] <alex_joni> piasdom: Could not open command file 'core_stepper.hal'
[14:31:41] <alex_joni> you need to copy that file there
[14:31:49] <alex_joni> (sounds like an unconfigured emc2 though)
[14:32:49] <piasdom> alex_joni : i just replaced my mill.ini with the web fersion...guess that's not how s works :)
[14:33:17] <piasdom> brb
[14:50:55] <piasdom> alex_joni: i didn't have the core_stepper file in my emc2 folder abd did copy it there .....got this error now http://paste.org/index.php?id=4915
[14:51:11] <piasdom> alex_joni: after running stepconf
[14:51:29] <cradek> emc/iotask/ioControl.cc 792: can't load tool table.
[14:51:59] <cradek> Could not open command file 'core_stepper.hal'
[14:52:05] <cradek> hm, looks like two problems
[14:52:15] <piasdom> cradek: i didn't change the tool table
[14:52:27] <cradek> if you're using stepconf, why are you moving around hal files? stepconf generates a full working configuration.
[14:52:44] <jepler> cradek: skunkworks_ suggested piasdom use the new sherline configurations
[14:52:48] <jepler> they don't have the "common files"
[14:53:25] <cradek> oh, oops
[14:53:32] <piasdom> cradek: was try different conf before i get my new video card in so i can have all correct before installing card
[14:54:18] <piasdom> can i just copy the core_stepper file to emc folder and try that ?
[14:54:24] <cradek> I'll stop "helping"
[14:54:51] <piasdom> cradek: i appreciate ANy "help" i get .....thanks
[14:55:09] <jepler> piasdom: short answer is "yes". you can also look in /etc/emc2/sample-configs/common for these files.
[14:55:21] <jepler> piasdom: (I think that's the right path)
[14:55:34] <piasdom> jepler:saw that after searching thanks
[14:55:38] <piasdom> yes
[14:55:39] <jepler> piasdom: just a guess, but the ones you need may be: emc.nml, emc.var, tool.tbl, core_stepper.hal
[14:55:53] <piasdom> ok
[14:57:16] <piasdom> jepler: i have all those file in emc folder
[15:02:38] <piasdom> now i get http://paste.org/index.php?id=4916
[15:03:54] <jepler> sigh, no good deed goes unpunished
[15:04:49] <jepler> the link skunkworks_ gave you is for the development version of the inifiles, and they're not quite compatible with 2.2
[15:04:53] <jepler> Use this link to download instead: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/configs/Sherline3Axis/?only_with_tag=v2_2_branch
[15:04:58] <piasdom> k
[15:05:54] <eric_unterhausen> emc quits because it can't load the tool table?
[15:06:58] <jepler> eric_unterhausen: I think the fatal error is this one, further down: #
[15:06:58] <jepler> core_stepper.hal:6: Ini variable not found.
[15:07:52] <piasdom> core_stepper.hal:6: Ini variable not found.
[15:07:52] <piasdom> 13478
[15:08:03] <piasdom> yes
[15:08:28] <piasdom> core_stepper.hal:6: Ini variable not found.
[15:08:29] <piasdom> 13478
[15:08:34] <piasdom> sorry
[15:09:01] <piasdom> brb
[15:09:40] <eric_unterhausen> is the stuff on pastbin an output from emc?
[15:10:03] <eric_unterhausen> or a system log?
[15:12:40] <cradek> a combination of both
[15:12:53] <eric_unterhausen> doesn't look like dmesg
[15:23:16] <piasdom> eris_unterhausen : it's an error msg when i start emc
[15:23:26] <piasdom> a win pops up
[15:23:58] <eric_unterhausen> I've never seen it before
[15:26:09] <piasdom> jepler: same error msg
[15:34:14] <jepler> try this one, then: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/Sherline3Axis.zip
[15:34:27] <jepler> it should include all the necessary files, and I tested that it starts on my 2.2
[15:37:03] <piasdom> k
[15:40:01] <piasdom> jepler: i copied the extracted file to my emc folder and got the same error...should i have done something else ?
[15:40:44] <fragalot> hhe, I just looked over the specs of the motors i'm using again,.. max. axial force: 10N
[15:40:47] <fragalot> that's....... not impressive
[15:43:40] <piasdom> jepler: i noticed it doesn't have a mill.ini file ...is it still using my old conf ?
[15:45:11] <jepler> in the ini chooser you'd pick "Sherline3Axis_inch.ini" under "Sherline3Axis"
[15:45:36] <jepler> after unzipping that file in your ~/emc2/configs directory
[15:45:37] <piasdom> i'm starting to think emc is not look at the file i'm working on
[15:45:43] <piasdom> k
[15:48:11] <piasdom> when i go to choose the file, it doesn't see any ini files and i see them in file browser
[15:55:05] <jepler> when I unzip that file in the right location, here's what I see when starting emc2 with the config selector: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/config-selector.png
[15:55:09] <piasdom> when i go to get the file, i can only see ~/emc2/configs/my-mill/my-mill.stepconf
[15:55:19] <jepler> that means you didn't unzip in the right place
[15:55:25] <jepler> or you chose the wrong options when unzipping
[15:55:47] <piasdom> ok...i'm in the wrong place...brb trying again
[15:56:42] <jepler> I unzipped in the terminal, like this:
[15:56:42] <jepler> $ cd ~/emc2/configs
[15:56:42] <jepler> $ unzip ~/Desktop_/Sherline3Axis.zip
[15:56:58] <piasdom> i was in stepconf.....it works :)
[15:57:44] <piasdom> jepler: thanks
[16:08:17] <piasdom> toall : thanks
[16:13:43] <eric_unterhausen> I swear 20" monitors aren't as big as they used to be
[16:14:01] <eric_unterhausen> but you can't sneeze at $130 for a 20" monitor either way
[16:15:32] <piasdom> why can't i see other ini files in stepconf, can only see ~emc2/configs/my-mill.stepconf .. i can see ini files in file browser ?
[16:17:58] <BigJohnT> you can only edit the ones you created
[16:18:34] <BigJohnT> or you need the .stepconf file or whatever the extension is
[16:20:03] <piasdom> BigJohnT: thanks, i like to use stepconf(getting use to it) ,but i'm getting familar with editing the ini file also
[16:22:26] <piasdom> d### it, i need to slow down..almost started a latency test with emc running
[16:22:36] <eric_unterhausen> don't think that works
[16:24:06] <BigJohnT> remember you add things in the custom.hal file and it will not overwrite it when you run stepconf again...
[16:25:58] <piasdom> ok
[16:27:17] <piasdom> i haven't started editing custom.hal yet, one pebble at a time :)
[16:30:03] <piasdom> can giving the controller card a separate power supply(straight out the wall) help with the latency ?
[16:30:20] <archivist> no
[16:30:20] <piasdom> and other issues
[16:30:57] <piasdom> just getting off the video portof the motherboard ?
[16:31:29] <archivist> video and and power management issues on the motherboard
[16:32:01] <piasdom> k thanks
[17:43:06] <eric_unterhausen> I hope the system I just stopped using as my main desktop has good latency. My new desktop seems to have very good latency, but I'm not using that for emc
[17:52:42] <piasdom> when i go to open a file, is there a way to get it to start looking in a different folder ?
[17:53:54] <archivist> define "it"
[17:54:47] <eric_unterhausen> I assume he means the file open dialog
[17:55:38] <archivist> * archivist assumes more than one dialog method
[17:55:56] <eric_unterhausen> * eric_unterhausen assumes he meant in emc2
[17:56:17] <piasdom> ok
[17:56:43] <eric_unterhausen> did you try ../ ?
[17:56:51] <piasdom> emc2 ...open dialog mehod...to start to run a file
[17:57:42] <eric_unterhausen> there isn't a browse option, don't have it installed on this computer.
[17:57:49] <archivist> piasdom, clear questions describing what you are doing in which program
[17:58:08] <piasdom> i use file,open...buit it starts in ~home/emc2/comfig
[17:58:18] <piasdom> in mini
[17:58:28] <piasdom> sorry
[17:59:00] <eric_unterhausen> nobody uses mini :)
[17:59:05] <piasdom> buit = but
[17:59:16] <piasdom> i heard that before
[17:59:18] <eric_unterhausen> where are your files?
[17:59:27] <piasdom> guess i'll have to look around...thanks
[17:59:54] <piasdom> dir i made for my file,it gets backed-up from there
[18:00:06] <archivist> axis has the same habit, its just a few clicks to get a file
[18:00:30] <skunkworks> it is a setting in the ini file
[18:00:32] <piasdom> alright..then that's what i'll have to do
[18:00:33] <eric_unterhausen> ~ means /home/currentuser
[18:00:35] <piasdom> thanks ya'll
[18:00:53] <eric_unterhausen> so the default looks a little strange to me
[18:00:54] <piasdom> yes eric_unterhausen
[18:04:02] <eric_unterhausen> maybe I should check out mini, I have a little touch screen for my mill that I'd like to use
[18:04:58] <eric_unterhausen> or maybe it would be better to tweak axis. Didn't I see reference to vb skins in the next release?
[18:07:39] <skunkworks> PROGRAM_PREFIX = ../../nc_files/
[18:08:49] <piasdom> skunkworks : i saw(and changed) that, but it didn't work - for me
[18:09:39] <eric_unterhausen> probably because they aren't in ../../nc_files
[18:10:20] <eric_unterhausen> piasdom: I take it you're a linux newbie
[18:10:50] <piasdom> eric_unterhausen: very new
[18:10:57] <eric_unterhausen> somewhere on the rt-linux mailing list archives, I asked the stupidest question ever
[18:11:31] <eric_unterhausen> I'm still proud of that even a decade later
[18:12:07] <piasdom> i don't think there're stupid questions, just stupid who don't want to learn
[18:12:45] <eric_unterhausen> it's annoying at first, then you start to learn the shortcuts and standard locations
[18:13:06] <eric_unterhausen> then it becomes annoying again when you change distributions
[18:13:14] <piasdom> i learn by trial and error, lots of errors
[18:13:37] <eric_unterhausen> I thought there was a "my computer" icon in ubuntu, but it isn't on my computer
[18:13:50] <skunkworks> I read that is - back out 2 directories and go down to nc_files.
[18:14:18] <eric_unterhausen> all I'm saying is that he doesn't have a nc_files directory two levels down
[18:14:31] <piasdom> shunkworks: that's what i do and will continue to do .thanks
[18:14:34] <eric_unterhausen> . isn't where we think it is
[18:14:39] <seb_kuzminsky> shouldnt the PROGRAM_PREFIX be an absolute path?
[18:15:02] <eric_unterhausen> ~ is an absolute path, but it's malformed in his case
[18:15:11] <eric_unterhausen> I believe
[18:15:24] <piasdom> i'll try again
[18:15:39] <eric_unterhausen> well, it would help if we knew where your files were
[18:16:39] <piasdom> i have this in the ini file /home/father/emc2/nc_files
[18:17:06] <piasdom> but my file are in ~emc2/gcodes
[18:17:44] <seb_kuzminsky> go to the dir where your gcode files are, run "pwd", and set PROGRAM_PREFIX to that?
[18:17:48] <eric_unterhausen> open a konsole and tell us what it says when you type pwd
[18:17:58] <piasdom> k
[18:18:44] <piasdom> ...../home/itt
[18:19:25] <piasdom> my file are in /home/itt/gcode
[18:20:03] <piasdom> i just used ~ for /home/itt....
[18:20:19] <eric_unterhausen> your choice
[18:20:35] <eric_unterhausen> /home/itt/gcode is the same as ~/gcode
[18:20:39] <piasdom> thought there was a misinderstanding
[18:21:09] <eric_unterhausen> are they in ~/emc2/gcode ?
[18:21:16] <piasdom> correct
[18:21:23] <piasdom> i'll set it to that
[18:21:25] <piasdom> brb
[18:21:56] <eric_unterhausen> I guess there is always some chance mini screws with the path
[18:26:16] <piasdom> no
[18:26:24] <piasdom> it worked ..
[18:26:28] <eric_unterhausen> good
[18:26:35] <piasdom> don't know what i did before
[18:27:13] <piasdom> thanks
[18:27:26] <eric_unterhausen> my pleasure
[18:27:35] <piasdom> no...mine :)
[19:18:56] <dmess> hi all
[19:19:17] <alex_joni> hi
[19:20:13] <piasdom> jepler: the new conf you gave me improved my latency so far
[19:28:46] <piasdom> nm...only been two hours
[19:38:57] <dmess> i'm home sick as a dog.. and bored outa my wits.. anyone heard any good news??
[19:48:05] <dmess> im back... sound system went to crap hard....
[19:50:22] <dmess> it locked up firefox and irc as well as evolution... and was just CRACKLING.. really loud
[19:51:04] <dmess> i was trying to watch a youtube vidie
[19:55:17] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all, it would appear one of our sponsors are having some issues with their connectivity. As a result we've lost one of our client (leaf) servers along with services. We hope to have things back to normal asap.
[20:13:14] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all, Everything is back to normal now (services included) -- bgp issues with uunet as the cause of the problem. Apologies for the inconvenience and have a good day.
[20:34:11] <shrdlu-> How do I set up my home to be in the top right corner? If I use stepconf to set a table travel on the x to be 0 - 210, then set the home location to be 210, then it goes left when I home it
[20:34:19] <shrdlu-> if I set it to zero, it goes left
[20:34:27] <shrdlu-> if I set it to -210, it goes left
[20:40:56] <piasdom> shrdlu: it you let it go to it's "home", what number do you have ? (new here,but will try)
[20:41:19] <jepler_> shrdlu-: "If the machine moves the wrong direction at the beginning of the homing procedure, negate the value of Home Search Velocity."
[20:42:23] <jepler_> (under heading Home Search Velocity in http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_stepconf.html#sub:Axis-Configuration )
[20:42:41] <motioncontrol> Good evening. I have studing one solution for create one comunication for EMC at Labview of Nation Instruments.The problem is read ad write Halui.Exist one librari for read and write parameter for EMC
[20:46:10] <shrdlu-> oh, that worked, thank you jepler
[20:46:55] <jepler_> motioncontrol: If you want to use a new kind of hardware interface, you need to implement a "HAL component" for it. Typically, hardware interfaces are implemented as realtime components written in C or in comp (a C preprocessor).
[20:47:13] <jepler_> look at examples in the source code, the html or pdf documentation for comp, and the manpages intro(3hal) and intro(3rtapi)
[20:48:04] <jepler_> one simple example you may find instructive is src/hal/drivers/hal_parport.c
[20:48:29] <jepler_> once you have a hardware interface component, then you can hook up the inputs and outputs in whatever way makes sense (e.g., to halui as you mentioned)
[20:49:04] <jepler_> shrdlu-: good, glad I could help
[20:49:07] <motioncontrol> ok. i thing the good start up is the classicladder.I want study how classicladder read and write in Halui
[20:49:11] <jepler_> make sure the next question you ask me is just as easy
[20:50:09] <jepler_> motioncontrol: that's in src/hal/classicladder but I am not very familiar with it myself
[20:51:22] <jepler_> personally I'd look at as simple a component as possible (e.g., hal_parport for hardware interface; and2 or ddt for a non-hardware component) rather than a very complicated one like classicladder
[20:52:19] <motioncontrol> ok thanks for all and excuse for my question, i use the EMC and Linux also 2 week.I studing first linux, realtime,patch,emc use and after i want implementation new tool in emc.
[20:53:10] <motioncontrol> i want use labview because i use it for my application
[20:53:45] <jepler_> you'll be the first as far as I know
[20:56:15] <motioncontrol> i have create one motion control with g code interpreter with labview at c.please read in google :flexmotioncnc for info
[20:56:34] <jepler_> I already have enough projects myself
[20:58:58] <motioncontrol> jepler what is your contry?
[20:59:08] <motioncontrol> country
[20:59:26] <jepler_> .us
[21:01:14] <motioncontrol> you want work in Italy not at beach
[21:01:33] <motioncontrol> but motion control application
[21:09:18] <piasdom> jepler: looks like the new ini you gave me improved my latency by 15000,i'll see what happens after i install the new video card