#emc | Logs for 2009-01-16

[00:00:15] <SWPadnos> MDI: G10 L2 P1 X0Y0Z0
[00:00:35] <Guest735> so g10 is implemented? I saw a place holder in the doc
[00:00:43] <Guest735> what is L2?
[00:00:44] <jmkasunich> jepler: your computer may be slow, but at least it boots
[00:01:05] <SWPadnos> in EMC 2.3, there will be an AXIS menu item to zero a coordinate system, but I'm not sure of the specifics
[00:01:06] <jepler> jmkasunich: uh oh, you having troubles?
[00:01:22] <SWPadnos> G10 is definitely implemented, what docs have a placeholder?
[00:01:24] <jmkasunich> not with one of my regular PCs
[00:01:33] <SWPadnos> the embedded board?
[00:01:41] <jmkasunich> I dug a 433MHz celeron industrial PC out of a drawer, trying to test it
[00:01:59] <jmkasunich> the cpu fan spins
[00:02:04] <jmkasunich> thats about it so far
[00:02:20] <SWPadnos> interesting. are you providing 12V, 5V or both?
[00:02:25] <jmkasunich> 5V
[00:02:30] <SWPadnos> odd
[00:02:54] <jmkasunich> the use of a KVM switch for this kind of testing probably isn't wise
[00:02:58] <jmkasunich> but I'm lazy
[00:02:59] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:03:21] <SWPadnos> actually, the board shouldn't care if there's a keyboard or monitor attached, but having it on a separate monitor is probably a better idea
[00:03:33] <jmkasunich> the lithium battery is stone cold dead
[00:03:59] <jmkasunich> the board might not care about kb/monitor
[00:04:10] <SWPadnos> bummer. I haven't had good luck replacing those (when they're soldered on)
[00:04:16] <jmkasunich> but the only way I'll know it lives is if the video works and I see bios stuff
[00:04:21] <jmkasunich> its socketed
[00:04:24] <Guest735> emc2 user manual, section 17.3.2 "(add here)" under the title, setting coordinate system values within gcode
[00:05:43] <SWPadnos> what version of EMC2 did that come with?
[00:05:43] <Guest735> so does the g10 L2 param mean anything?
[00:05:44] <jepler> Guest735: have a look back at section 11.6 (page 75 in my pdf). That is the specification for G10.
[00:05:55] <SWPadnos> looking on the web, I see G10 in section 11.6, and there's a description there
[00:06:38] <Guest735> yes, I found the doc on the web, when I was looking earlier, I was passed 11.6 so when I searched I found the 17.3.2. I had to run out, just got back and tried it
[00:06:44] <SWPadnos> oh, ok. "add here" is after the statement that the description is in the general programming section
[00:07:08] <jepler> Guest735: in a future version, G10 will be able to set other kinds of things -- different P-values will select the things
[00:07:20] <jepler> for instance, I think that in 2.3, "G10 P1" will set the tool table
[00:07:29] <Guest735> but the L2 param?
[00:07:30] <jepler> in 2.2.8, there is only G10 P2
[00:07:37] <jepler> er, oops
[00:07:43] <jepler> different L-values will select the things
[00:07:51] <jepler> for instance, in a future version "G10 L1" will set the tool table
[00:07:53] <SWPadnos> like tool 20
[00:09:12] <Guest735> now I get it
[00:09:22] <jepler> In G10 L2, the P-number selects which of the several fixture offsets will be set -- you'll usually use P1 (which corresponds to G54, which is the coordinate system usually in effect if not set by a G55..G59.3 code)
[00:09:32] <jepler> sorry I confused things by getting my Ps and Ls backwards
[00:09:57] <jepler> so backing up -- are you on a system with home switches or without?
[00:10:56] <Guest735> what would be a good used model of an apple computer to run Ubuntu and EMC2 on? something cheap?
[00:11:07] <Guest735> I guess it would need a parallel port.
[00:11:14] <SWPadnos> heh. here's a great line in an ebay description: "This lot consist of Three (2) pieces considered new or unsued"
[00:11:24] <jepler> Guest735: I don't know of any Apple computer suitable for running emc.
[00:11:45] <SWPadnos> it would need to be one with PCI slots and an Intel CPU, unless you want to do a lot of work
[00:11:46] <Guest735> k, someone mentioned earlier they found a $50 apple that runs ubuntu and emc2
[00:13:20] <Guest735> so the M2 command must reset the g92 offsets, correct?
[00:14:09] <jepler> Guest735: yes, and that behavior is one of the main reasons I recommend to use G54 offsets instead of G92.
[00:14:41] <jepler> (the other is that the axis "touch off" screen, which is very useful, only sets the G54 offset, never the G92 offset)
[00:15:10] <Guest735> I think I have it figured out now. thanks, I had always used g92, will use g10 and/or touchoff
[00:15:28] <Guest735> can you pass params to g54?
[00:16:00] <jepler> I'm not sure what you mean
[00:16:20] <Guest735> I see this written -> g54 x0 y0 z0
[00:16:38] <Guest735> without a g0,g1, etc
[00:17:22] <jepler> oh
[00:17:29] <jepler> in 17.3?
[00:17:55] <Guest735> yes
[00:18:09] <jepler> no, the x0 isn't "going to" g54, it's going to g0, the modal motion code in effect (set one line above)
[00:18:20] <jepler> I'd never write that myself
[00:18:33] <Guest735> so g54 x0 y0 z0 is effectively g54 g0 x0 y0 z0
[00:18:55] <jepler> (exception: I'd write G53 G0 X0 y0 Z0 to move in the machine coordinate system; G53's not modal, so it applies only to the line it's on)
[00:18:58] <jepler> yes
[00:19:13] <jepler> or if the line above was a 'g1', then it's equivalent to g54 g1 x0 y0 z0
[00:20:24] <Guest735> one last bug, I am still getting "following" errors on my axis even though I am using servos. should I just increase the parameter in the ini? Can't remember which one.
[00:21:42] <jepler> step-servos?
[00:22:04] <Guest735> servos with g320's so I guess they look like steppers to emc2
[00:22:24] <Guest735> the loop is closed in the g320, no feedback to the PC
[00:23:00] <jepler> did you configure with stepconf or othrewise
[00:23:04] <jepler> otherwise
[00:23:32] <Guest735> both, stepconf first and then tweaked it, it seems like it showed up when I added .005 backlash to one axis
[00:23:41] <BigJohnT> ohh ohh pick me
[00:23:53] <jepler> BigJohnT: oh are you going to take over for me?
[00:24:02] <jepler> that's great because I want to get away and have some dinner
[00:24:04] <BigJohnT> no but http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//common_Stepper_Diagnostics.html#r1_2_1
[00:24:35] <BigJohnT> I'm skipping dinner so my new nick will be littleJohn
[00:24:50] <jepler> Guest735: ok -- you're almost certainly right that it started when you added backlash
[00:24:57] <jepler> Guest735: er, when you added backlash compensation
[00:25:19] <jepler> Guest735: look in your inifile and double the STEPGEN_MAXACCEL value
[00:25:28] <jepler> Guest735: do it for any axis where you also added a backlash value
[00:26:08] <Guest735> I'll try that. that is the ini for axis or hal?
[00:26:17] <jepler> [AXIS_0]STEPGEN_MAXACCEL
[00:26:21] <SWPadnos> there's only one ini
[00:26:26] <jepler> in your-mill.ini
[00:26:30] <Guest735> ok
[00:27:05] <Guest735> it only gives me the error when jogging, usually when switching directions
[00:27:14] <jepler> stepconf sets up a maximum acceleration for the motion planner ([AXIS_0]MAX_ACCELERATION) and for the step generator ([AXIS_0]STEPGEN_MAXACCEL)
[00:27:29] <jepler> without backlash, it's enough for the step generator acceleration to be just a few percent above the motion planner acceleration
[00:27:54] <jepler> but with backlash correction, emc uses "extra acceleration" at a reversal to take up the backlash
[00:28:09] <jepler> that's above and beyond what's in [AXIS_0]MAX_ACCELERATION -- in fact, up to double
[00:28:16] <jepler> so you double the STEPGEN_MAXACCEL and all should be well
[00:28:34] <Guest735> I'll go look at it
[00:28:37] <jepler> ok
[00:28:41] <jepler> I'm going to go have that dinner now
[00:28:44] <jepler> I hope I didn't get too technical on you
[00:28:52] <BigJohnT> thanks jepler
[00:31:53] <Guest735> so max was at 10, stepgen max was at 10.5, so I took stepgen max to 21, correct?
[00:32:36] <BigJohnT> that's the way I understand it now Guest735
[04:11:42] <JustinXJS> JustinXJS is now known as JustinXJS2
[05:39:42] <KimK_> KimK_ is now known as KimK
[13:30:17] <Guest901> Guest901 is now known as skunkworks_
[14:28:42] <micges_emc> canned cycles are very cool
[14:29:08] <micges_emc> I didn't know they are so flexible and usable
[14:30:57] <toastatwork> dear jesus what would i do without canned cycles
[14:32:31] <micges_emc> what are you do (produce) ?
[14:32:36] <tomp> heh... write a lot of redundant code
[15:49:56] <skunkworks_> jensor: how is it going?
[15:56:01] <jensor> Well. I just discovered a phenomen, I added a loop on axis.ngc to repeat itself 1000 times and it made it run very jumpy
[15:57:04] <jensor> and doesn't follow the track very well
[15:57:31] <cradek> the machine doesn't follow, or the cone on the screen doesn't follow?
[15:57:42] <jensor> the cone on the screen
[15:58:02] <cradek> that's normal. for a huge program the display can get slower. the machine will still work the same.
[15:58:26] <cradek> you can put the magic comment (AXIS,hide) in the program after the first loop, and it will stop loading into the preview at that point.
[16:00:52] <jensor> see http://pastebin.com/d59b331b5
[16:02:40] <cradek> yeah?
[16:03:37] <jensor> The way its written I can't get into the first loop
[16:04:02] <cradek> I don't understand what you mean
[16:04:24] <jensor> you said add AXIS,hide
[16:04:33] <jensor> after the 1st loop
[16:04:58] <cradek> you could put it after line 416
[16:05:53] <jensor> I'll try that
[16:07:26] <skunkworks_> how is the latency tests?
[16:13:24] <ya313> scripts/emc: line 537: 1721 Segmentation fault $HALCMD loadusr -Wn iocontrol $EMC2_BIN_DIR/$EMCIO -ini $INIFILE
[16:14:10] <eric_unterhause1> that's cryptic
[16:14:37] <ya313> Can I use source of emc2.8.8.7 with rtai modules in *.deb ??
[16:14:59] <jensor> cradek, it runs ok after addin g that command, but i do have to ok the g -code error that pops up
[16:15:15] <eric_unterhause1> ya313: I believe so
[16:15:48] <ya313> eric_unterhause1: ok. then i need to install other system to be clearly sure i still have this error
[16:16:10] <eric_unterhause1> you downloaded a source package?
[16:16:17] <ya313> yes
[16:16:24] <jensor> skunkworks, still working on it. I decided to let axis repeat itself while waitng for the rtaip error to occur.
[16:16:43] <jensor> It seems that just sitting over nite it didn't occurt
[16:17:18] <ya313> but i get a mistake running "realtime" emc. I think i need to install everything agai, then compile python2.5, then only emc2... I will do it next 45 minutes
[16:17:54] <ya313> ok, quitting
[16:19:15] <jensor> The idea is to hopefully have a log of what is going on when it occurs, to see what causes it. I have moved the baseperiod back to the original setting of 50 uS
[16:20:01] <jensor> and let emc run axis.ngc over and over
[16:26:09] <jensor> I understand that the rtaip error message only appears once per session even though it may occur later. This tends to mislead in that one thinks that it is not reoccuring.
[16:29:07] <jensor> If my kernal had been recompiled, to reduce the latency when emc was first set up (2-3 yrs ago) have anything todo with my problem.
[16:31:33] <SWPadnos> if you had a problem, and you solved it by recompiling the RTAI kernel, and then you replaced that kernel with one that has teh original problem, then yes, it could have something to do with it
[16:31:40] <SWPadnos> :)
[16:34:20] <jensor> would updating em c to the newer version replace the kernal
[16:34:50] <jensor> I tend to think that it does
[16:35:28] <SWPadnos> yes, if there's a newer kernel
[16:35:46] <SWPadnos> it doesn't remove your custom kernel though
[16:36:05] <SWPadnos> so you should still have a GRUB boot option for your custom kernel
[16:36:32] <jensor> how do I determine that
[16:38:13] <The_Ball> Hi guys, I purchased some servo drives, they can do step/dir or +/- 10V, but the can also do "Master Command Control (RS-232/485 and MotionLink Communications)" can EMC output MCC or MLC?
[16:39:01] <cradek> no, use the +/-10
[16:39:05] <The_Ball> My other servo drives loose some steps in step/dir mode if I drive the quickly, so serial communication sounds sweet
[16:39:21] <The_Ball> s/the/them to/
[16:39:22] <cradek> step/dir servos are an abomination
[16:40:06] <The_Ball> hehe, I do agree, and I have a pluto laying around here which I haven't played with yet
[16:40:12] <cradek> you need a analog servo/encoder interface: mesa and ppmc are two good ones
[16:40:16] <The_Ball> is that how you interface with +-10V?
[16:40:35] <SWPadnos> jensor, look at /boot/grub/menu.lst
[16:40:40] <cradek> pluto can't do +/-10
[16:40:51] <The_Ball> I just bought two of these for a direct drive trunnion table I will build: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=170292174954
[16:41:03] <cradek> mesa and pico have boards that have DACs on them to generate +/-10
[16:41:07] <The_Ball> cradek, no, but it can do pwm which can be converted to -+1-V
[16:41:13] <SWPadnos> jensor, or reboot and press ESC for the grub menu
[16:41:18] <The_Ball> arg, to late to type fast
[16:41:32] <cradek> The_Ball: yeah, depends how much circuitry you are willing to build
[16:42:07] <cradek> I wouldn't consider running anything but a small machine with a pluto - I just don't trust it
[16:42:09] <The_Ball> I already cut some op-amp circuit boards to do the job, but lost the "puff" at the end over a year ago
[16:42:20] <cradek> I know that feeling
[16:42:40] <The_Ball> how much for a mesa or ppmc board that can do five axis?
[16:42:52] <SWPadnos> $199 + some I/O cards
[16:43:12] <The_Ball> are they parallel port based?
[16:43:19] <SWPadnos> PCI for the Mesa
[16:43:26] <eric_unterhause1> they have parport too
[16:43:27] <cradek> pico are parallel port
[16:43:38] <cradek> oh right, mesa has a parport version now
[16:43:44] <cradek> (pci is better)
[16:43:50] <SWPadnos> the IO cards are signal conditioners that convert from PWM+dir to +/-10V
[16:43:54] <eric_unterhause1> parport costs less than half
[16:44:13] <cradek> eric_unterhause1: hmmm
[16:44:16] <SWPadnos> and do differential conversion for encoders
[16:44:45] <SWPadnos> you can probably do 8 servos with a 7u43, but you'll have very little I/O left over
[16:44:51] <SWPadnos> 7i43
[16:45:11] <eric_unterhause1> I have pci
[16:45:13] <SWPadnos> and you need 2 PPMC boards for the Pico solution
[16:45:35] <SWPadnos> I'm responding to "parallel prot costs less than half"
[16:45:45] <eric_unterhause1> I'm talking about mesa only
[16:45:47] <SWPadnos> that's true, but it may not be ebough for a >4-axis system
[16:45:49] <jensor> SWPadnos, I'll look at the grub setup
[16:46:14] <cradek> problem with 5 axes is that the boards all seem to have 4, so you need two (8)
[16:46:28] <eric_unterhause1> mesa doesn't have that problem IIRC
[16:46:35] <eric_unterhause1> output boards, yes
[16:46:37] <SWPadnos> jensor, ok. I didn't realize that you had made a custom kernel. if you can figure out why, please let us know :)
[16:47:19] <SWPadnos> ok, there is an 8 servo version of the 7i43 firmware
[16:47:33] <The_Ball> wow, mesa have a lot of cards
[16:47:46] <SWPadnos> but once you use 5 of them, you're left with only 18 I/Os for everything else
[16:47:59] <SWPadnos> and a PITA wiring up the second connector to use them
[16:50:07] <eric_unterhause1> a digital data stream equivalent to a dac seems like it would be a good thing, but I've never seen one
[16:50:09] <The_Ball> SWPadnos, only 18I/O's?? only! I'm running three axis now only using the parallel port and have plenty pins left
[16:50:45] <SWPadnos> well, I think in Bridgeport and HNC terms these days :)
[16:50:57] <SWPadnos> and most of my experience is on the Mazak
[16:50:59] <cradek> you must not have many home/limit switches or spindle/coolant control
[16:51:10] <SWPadnos> or a pendant
[16:51:12] <The_Ball> hehe, then 18 would be 'only', hehe
[16:51:15] <SWPadnos> can't live without a pendant
[16:51:29] <SWPadnos> but it's true, 18 is more than the parallel port gives you, total
[16:51:31] <The_Ball> cradek, correct, only spindel and coolant control
[16:51:58] <The_Ball> SWPadnos, my pendant is a wireless rumble pad, haven't figured out how to use the 'force feedback' yet, hehe
[16:52:00] <eric_unterhause1> I wired all my limit switches in series
[16:52:00] <cradek> going without home switches is just too painful
[16:52:26] <eric_unterhause1> home switches will have an input each
[16:52:42] <cradek> you could share, but you can't home everything together then
[16:53:14] <eric_unterhause1> I'd like to stay off my limits
[16:53:49] <eric_unterhause1> the way bp set them up, they are right up against the stops, 3/8" or so away from metal to metal contact
[16:54:43] <The_Ball> Which mesa board should I get, cradek your saying PCI is the best way to go?
[16:54:59] <eric_unterhause1> some people say...
[16:55:00] <cradek> in my opinion only
[16:55:18] <SWPadnos> here are a few differences between PCI and parallel port:
[16:55:20] <cradek> they are more expensive but also seems like they are less trouble
[16:55:21] <The_Ball> well over the years you have had some good opinions in here
[16:55:25] <eric_unterhause1> probably is better, less chance for an unknown 3rd party to screw things up
[16:55:27] <SWPadnos> PCI: $200, parport, $90
[16:55:50] <eric_unterhause1> you may need to use a pci parport too
[16:55:51] <The_Ball> SWPadnos, I just spend $1000 on those drives, can't stop now
[16:56:02] <eric_unterhause1> woohooo!
[16:56:25] <SWPadnos> PCI: fast I/O, could run the servo loop at 5-10 KHz. parport, 100 uS or longer update, so you shouldn't go much beyond 2-3 kHz
[16:57:02] <The_Ball> ah yes, pci it is, and are all these boards supported by EMC2?
[16:57:05] <SWPadnos> PCI: more I/O, 3 or 4 connectors * 24 I/Os per (=72 or 96 IOs). parport, 2 connectors fro a total of 48 I/Os
[16:57:07] <SWPadnos> yes
[16:57:08] <eric_unterhause1> which is plenty fast enough for most systems
[16:57:46] <SWPadnos> in my opinion, the only major advantage to the parport card is price
[16:57:58] <jensor> SWPadnos, waht I see is 3 boot options: Ubuntu,kernal 2.6.15 magma, Ubuntu, kernal 2.6.15 magma (recovery mode), and Unbuntu, memtest86+
[16:58:00] <cradek> or for slotless machines
[16:58:09] <SWPadnos> there is a minor advantage in that you can connect it externally to some PCs where PCI wouldn't work
[16:58:12] <SWPadnos> right
[16:58:56] <SWPadnos> jensor, ok, I'm not exactly sure what that means, but it looks like you have only one kernel installed
[16:59:05] <jensor> SWPadnos, Is the memtest86+ unique to mine
[16:59:06] <SWPadnos> did you upgrade EMC2 by reinstalling from CD?
[16:59:09] <SWPadnos> no
[16:59:13] <eric_unterhause1> the add on boards start hiding the price advantage
[16:59:13] <jensor> no
[16:59:35] <SWPadnos> ok, then your kernel probably hasn't been changed by the upgrade (or at all, by the look of it)
[16:59:42] <jensor> ok
[16:59:51] <SWPadnos> also, the fact that you need a very expensive parallel cable :)
[17:00:09] <eric_unterhause1> don't price all the 50pin cables then
[17:00:38] <SWPadnos> those are the same between PCI/Parport, unless you need more I/O than the 7i43 can provide
[17:00:39] <eric_unterhause1> oh, wait :)
[17:00:41] <The_Ball> wow, these cards are amazing!! I can wire all the servo fault and enable pins individually, this opens up a new world
[17:00:48] <SWPadnos> in which case PCI wins due to capability
[17:00:54] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:01:38] <skunkworks_> The_Ball: didn't you have a video of your mill running around with a gamepad?
[17:01:51] <The_Ball> yes i did, hehe
[17:03:00] <SWPadnos> oh interesting. our thermometer has an end stop at -30C
[17:03:07] <SWPadnos> no wonder why it didn't move much last night
[17:10:54] <The_Ball> cradek, when you have hooked up your servos using +-10V what sort of feedback to you use for possitioning, quadrature from the drives?
[17:11:22] <cradek> resolvers on the ballscrews -> resolver to quadrature conversion -> mesa card -> emc2
[17:11:39] <SWPadnos> The_Ball, are your servos DC or AC?
[17:11:45] <The_Ball> AC
[17:11:49] <SWPadnos> aaahhhh
[17:12:27] <cradek> is the +-10 input a velocity command?
[17:12:47] <cradek> can you get quadrature output from the amps for emc?
[17:13:21] <The_Ball> cradek, all my servos are direct drive, so I guess using the quadrature output from the drives is ok. I see there is an acessory for the 5I20 card that is a RS-422/485 interface, would that alow the card to get the possition straight from the drive?
[17:14:01] <The_Ball> cradek, +-10V is a velocity command yes, the drives can output quadrature or step/dir to mimic the resolvers
[17:14:16] <cradek> I don't think you can use RS-4* for emc currently
[17:14:31] <cradek> velocity in, position quadrature out is perfect
[17:14:47] <The_Ball> ok, i was hoping it was just interal in the 5I20, but I have no idea :)
[17:14:53] <cradek> mesa 7i33 will hook up directly to that
[17:15:33] <The_Ball> in theory, don't you risk loosing steps with the quadrature feedback? That's the problem I'm fed up with right now (loosing steps)
[17:16:32] <The_Ball> Ok, so if I order a 5i23 and a 7i33 I'll be alright
[17:16:59] <SWPadnos> for 4 servos
[17:17:25] <SWPadnos> if you have an op-amp board all designed for the pluto, it should also work for the 5th servo you want (on the second connector)
[17:17:27] <cradek> differential quadrature is reliable but if you have bad wiring, grounding, etc, of course you can lose position. there is no magic bullet.
[17:20:30] <The_Ball> SWPadnos, actually I lie, my quill is driven by a gecko drive (step/dir only), i was planning to build a H-Bride for the pluto on that
[17:20:46] <SWPadnos> oh. in that case it's easier :)
[17:20:59] <The_Ball> sweet, calling mesa now :D
[17:21:12] <SWPadnos> there's a ervo+stepper FPGA firmware, so you can use a stepper on the one axis and servos on the others
[17:21:13] <cradek> mesa can do step/dir too
[17:21:15] <SWPadnos> +s
[17:21:54] <cradek> The_Ball: if you get the "T" (screw connector) versions of the interface cards, don't forget to ask for the connectors too
[17:23:46] <SWPadnos> oh, and (I shouldn't say this until I've bought more, but) ebay is a good source for opto-22 I/O boards and modules
[17:24:13] <SWPadnos> pretty close to the cost of a 7i37T+connectors, but more flexible
[17:24:28] <The_Ball> cradek, thanks
[17:28:33] <The_Ball> there's a 1M ballscrew going on ebay that would be great for the new lathe, but it has a 30mm pitch :(
[17:28:58] <cradek> that seems a bit coarse
[17:29:31] <archivist> whats the diameter
[17:29:45] <cradek> about a foot
[17:29:45] <archivist> sounds a biggun
[17:30:16] <The_Ball> Total lenght=1130mm Travel=940mm Screw Pitch=30mm(High speed) Diameter=20mm Accuracy grade=C7
[17:30:23] <The_Ball> What is C7, any good?
[17:31:24] <SWPadnos> it's slightly better than C6
[17:31:29] <SWPadnos> or slightly worse :)
[17:31:42] <The_Ball> ah, now it's clear as mud
[17:32:01] <SWPadnos> excellent. my work is done
[17:32:19] <The_Ball> i'm guessing it's a little worse than C6... "There is a little rust on the screw"
[17:33:17] <archivist> C7 is down amongst the rolled screws
[17:33:39] <The_Ball> ah, that explains the cheap price
[17:34:00] <jepler> seems C3, C5 are better than C7. I haven't spotted even numbers yet.. ttp://www.misumiusa.com/CategoryImages/Metric_2006_pdf/METRIC307-308.pdf
[17:34:48] <jepler> (see lower left side of page)
[17:34:52] <archivist> http://www.nookindustries.com/profilerail/ProfileRailGlossary.cfm#Accuracy
[17:35:41] <jepler> archivist: ah that's better than what I found
[17:36:14] <archivist> C7 is a sod to google
[17:37:28] <archivist> that mainly relates to rails but I assume the numbers cover more as ballscrews are in the same table
[17:42:34] <skunkworks_> The_Ball:
[17:42:35] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY-FCN5ZXkg&feature=channel_page
[17:43:32] <The_Ball> skunkworks, sweet, yours?
[17:46:13] <skunkworks_> a h-bridge I have been pulling my hair out with http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/newcurrentlimit/close.jpg
[17:46:54] <skunkworks_> The_Ball: do you have a link to that video?
[17:46:59] <skunkworks_> (joypad)
[17:48:00] <The_Ball> skunkworks, nice, what's your double sided alignment trick?
[17:49:18] <skunkworks_> tabs
[17:49:35] <skunkworks_> 2 work coordinates.
[17:51:50] <The_Ball> skunkworks, i'm trying to find the video, while you wait, the third video here might amuse you: http://wigen.net/hobby/f-16/
[17:54:09] <The_Ball> skunkworks, hahaha, here's the video, makes me embarresed to watch it now: http://wigen.net/workshop/cnc/jogspeed.xvid
[17:55:43] <skunkworks_> The_Ball: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=340992&postcount=14
[17:55:48] <skunkworks_> The_Ball: thanks
[17:56:21] <skunkworks_> The_Ball: would you have a problem if I put it up on youtube?
[17:59:51] <The_Ball> skunkworks, no not really, people will watch anything these days
[18:00:00] <skunkworks_> heh
[18:11:24] <skunkworks_> The_Ball: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgGxaNq46Pk
[18:14:00] <The_Ball> hehe, i need to get some ballscrews on there
[18:14:39] <The_Ball> with this mesa board that i have now ordered and with the trunnion table and spiral machining, that bed will see some serious work
[18:18:48] <skunkworks_> The_Ball: is that you flying the jet?
[18:19:44] <The_Ball> yes
[18:19:56] <skunkworks_> very nice!
[18:20:08] <The_Ball> thanks, good fun
[18:20:11] <skunkworks_> Is that scratch built?
[18:21:22] <skunkworks_> heh - I could just read the website. ;)
[18:21:48] <jensor> If my max step requirement (using quadrature) is 4167 steps/sec what would be a recomended base period?
[18:21:49] <The_Ball> no, don't read, then I can pretend it's scratch built
[18:26:47] <skunkworks_> jansor - quadrature gives you one transision per base period. (very nice) so lets say 5000steps per second 1/5000 is .0002 or a base period of 200000. did I do that right?
[18:27:35] <SWPadnos> yes, assuming you're talking about outputting quadrature
[18:27:51] <SWPadnos> for input you should have a faster period because of jitter
[18:28:30] <SWPadnos> also note that the longer the base period, the worse the timing resolution from step to step (it's always an integer number of periods between steps)
[18:29:02] <SWPadnos> bbl
[18:31:39] <jensor> So as the timing resolution gets worse, the greater the velocity error between what is specified and what one gets?
[18:56:36] <The_Ball> time for bed, it's only five in the morning
[19:46:57] <dmess> HI ALL
[19:47:56] <jepler> hi stustev
[19:48:28] <jepler> stustev: can I pick your brain for a minute over on #emc-devel?
[19:48:59] <jepler> hi dmess
[19:51:20] <jepler> stustev: specifically, I'd like you to take a look at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?WrappedRotaryAxes and point out what I got wrong
[19:55:09] <stustev> jepler: sure - will do (or at least try) :)
[19:56:16] <dmess> i think you should allow it to wrap up as many times as needed.. WITHout having to unwrap when the machine is referanced again
[19:56:20] <stustev> will be back in a minute
[19:57:10] <archivist> jepler I must watch as Im interested (hobbing)
[20:05:20] <stustev> jepler: would you give me the link again
[20:05:31] <jepler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?WrappedRotaryAxes
[20:05:35] <stustev> thanks
[20:09:47] <archivist> what do you mean by "enable relative rotary motion" I can see a relation between an X or Y not just another rotary
[20:12:51] <dmess> i will see if i still have the wrapping macro for the Toshiba
[20:15:05] <ya313> again, sim run in place - works, realtime run in place - doesn't work
[20:15:47] <alex_joni> ya313: what does uname -a tell you?
[20:15:54] <ya313> only one, № 15019 mistake
[20:16:33] <ya313> "uname -a" ?? in which folder? b-t-w, i can not attach internet in rtai mode
[20:17:09] <alex_joni> ya313: typing "uname -a" will tell you the kernel name
[20:17:16] <alex_joni> to make sure it has rtai extensions
[20:17:22] <ya313> alex_joni: ok, please, wait an answer withing few minutes after my logging out
[20:17:33] <alex_joni> but if you're sure rtai testsuite works ,then we can go past this
[20:17:45] <alex_joni> did you try the rtai testsuite?
[20:17:53] <alex_joni> especially latency/kern
[20:18:36] <ya313> testsuite? b-t-w, "dmesg" shows "unregister rtai" after the faulty launch of simulation mode in real-time emc2 compilation
[20:18:43] <alex_joni> ya313: sorry.. gotta run for 30-40 minutes, but there are others here, just post more details on the error you get
[20:19:11] <ya313> alex_joni: no, and where's its documentation?
[20:19:24] <ya313> alex_joni: ok, but how can i run its test suit?
[20:19:43] <alex_joni> ya313: you go to the folder where you compiled rtai (usually in /usr/realtime..)
[20:19:47] <ya313> "man rtai" doesn't help
[20:19:53] <alex_joni> there should be a folder testsuite/latency/kern
[20:20:06] <alex_joni> there you have a .run if my memory serves me right
[20:20:17] <ya313> alex_joni: i'd used .deb -files from linuxcnc.org
[20:20:26] <alex_joni> ah, then it should be ok
[20:20:34] <alex_joni> can you pastebin the exact error from emc2?
[20:20:41] <ya313> ok, will see. i'm about to quit and restart pc
[20:20:59] <alex_joni> just a second
[20:21:43] <alex_joni> did you install using the install script? or from the LiveCD?
[20:22:42] <alex_joni> ya313: if you used the install script (or you installed packages by hand), then you should install a couple more packages
[20:22:49] <ya313> alex_joni: well, script, then some packets from synaptic, then manual compilation of python 2.5.2 and emc2.8.8.7
[20:23:17] <ya313> alex_joni: yes, but --sim + --in-place already works
[20:23:50] <ya313> RTAI doesn't let run axis in simulator mode
[20:23:59] <alex_joni> ya313: install "linux-ubuntu-modules-hardy-rtai" and "linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24-16-rtai"
[20:24:31] <ya313> ok, wait a second, i can check if it are already installed
[20:24:32] <alex_joni> those might make your network work with the RT kernel
[20:25:10] <alex_joni> ya313: ok, gotta run now.. hope you can pastebin the error message emc2 generates during startup
[20:25:17] <alex_joni> then someone in here surely will help debug this
[20:25:29] <ya313> yes, i can install it.
[20:25:44] <ya313> ok, i'm restarting pc
[20:25:46] <ya313> buy
[20:25:51] <ya313> bye ;)
[20:44:12] <motioncontrol> good evening. i want traslate the error message with axis interface.what is the module for text the error in emc2.2.8?
[20:48:27] <cradek> motioncontrol: which language?
[20:49:37] <cradek> a little bit of information here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Internationalization
[20:53:24] <ya314> ok, where to paste a mistake? e.g. paste.org?
[20:53:38] <cradek> we like pastebin.ca
[20:59:50] <ya314> it doesn't "work" in my browser
[21:03:13] <cradek> use any you like - doesn't matter
[21:04:55] <ya314> http://paste.org/4864
[21:05:31] <ya314> read this to kids at the evening if they've got a bad grade in school ;)
[21:06:47] <ya314> well, it's on a laptop
[21:07:32] <ya314> RTAI or RTLinux. Hope, both let commands to be sent thru the network interface?
[21:10:32] <SWPadnos> RTAI and RTLinux are mostly irrelevant to the question of sending commands over a network
[21:13:34] <ya314> ok
[21:16:12] <ya314> and what about the fact simulation mode doesn't run in copmpiled 'in-place' emc2. option --enable-simulator let it work. But realtimeprocesses fail. Should i use emc2 from .deb -files? I'm compiling it after the python 2.5.2, without the last one emc2 doesn't run, too
[21:17:07] <ya314> that's why i think i just need to use debian emc2, not a tarball since i'm using RTAI modules as .deb
[21:17:51] <SWPadnos> run-in-place and enable-simulator are independent options
[21:18:06] <SWPadnos> if you want a simulator build that is also run-in-place, you need to specify both
[21:18:13] <ya314> ok, then it doesn't work as a realtime process
[21:18:41] <SWPadnos> simulator is not realtime by definition
[21:18:47] <ya314> well, it doesn't work as a simulator in RTAI -kernel
[21:19:15] <ya314> but it doesn't even run in that kernel-RTAI... Is it right/wrong behavoiur?
[21:20:03] <SWPadnos> I don't understand your description of the problem
[21:20:52] <ya314> http://paste.org/4864 , but i'm trying to run the "sim-axis" module
[21:22:49] <SWPadnos> that looks like a non-simulator build
[21:22:56] <SWPadnos> err, no wait
[21:23:14] <SWPadnos> yes, it's non-sim
[21:23:21] <motioncontrol> i want traslate in italian language.
[21:23:30] <ya314> ...but... i still must be able to run the sim mode, axis GUI, right?
[21:23:33] <SWPadnos> you don't need the make setuid step for simulator, and the make process shouldn't tell you to do it
[21:23:36] <SWPadnos> no
[21:23:52] <cradek> we already have an italian translation - if it is incomplete you could help improve it
[21:24:07] <SWPadnos> axis needs to communicate with other modules that are RT for a non-sim build
[21:24:27] <SWPadnos> so you need to reconfigure: ./configure --enable-run-in-place --enable-simulator
[21:24:32] <SWPadnos> and make again
[21:24:34] <motioncontrol> i want only modification and customization the my emc versio.
[21:24:51] <ya314> SWPadnos: ok, but i wanted to run sim module of the EMC2.
[21:25:04] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: he wants to run RT, but the sim config
[21:25:20] <SWPadnos> ya314, you will also need to source the emc-environment script: from the src directory: . ../scripts/emc-environment
[21:25:22] <SWPadnos> ok
[21:25:23] <alex_joni> ya314: _please_ try to be carefull what you mean/write
[21:25:27] <ya314> SWPadnos: then all i need is to adjust the settings of particular machine type and start to work! Right?
[21:25:45] <SWPadnos> I sure hope so
[21:26:17] <alex_joni> depends what you want to do
[21:26:28] <motioncontrol> i see the txt in emc2.2.8/src/PO IS THIS THE FILE FOR TEXT?
[21:26:47] <SWPadnos> YES!
[21:27:05] <ya314> motioncontrol: it's a bit offtopic, but i can give you free CAM Expert license if you would have verified its USER Reference's translation
[21:27:25] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:27:37] <cradek> goodnight alex (lucky)
[21:27:45] <SWPadnos> heh. see you Alex
[21:28:14] <ya314> ok
[21:29:07] <ya314> does anyone knows the steps of work in Code-Aster.org?
[21:30:30] <SWPadnos> never heard of them
[21:30:58] <ya314> well, a free FEM suit, which seems close to ANSYS's capabilities.
[21:31:15] <motioncontrol> the emc when start open the window for select the driver(m5i20,pluto,sim ecc.), is possible select the configuration in one file and not open the windows select driver and open when emc start only the axis interface?
[21:32:49] <ya314> motioncontrol: like --myconf='PATH_TO_FILE'? Could be...
[21:33:03] <SWPadnos> http://www.caelinux.com/CMS/
[21:34:09] <ya314> SWPadnos: oh, yeah, i'm just out of my internet money this month to search too much sites.
[21:34:28] <motioncontrol> yes , i want load the configuration driver in one file(i thing .ini file) and not open the window for select driver.
[21:34:47] <SWPadnos> that's a distribution that's target at FEA and that kind of thing
[21:36:01] <ya314> SWPadnos: the main point of this all is usually a fatigue of metal, esp aluminum => right borders' curves of particular details
[21:36:55] <SWPadnos> sure, modeling before building and breaking things :)
[21:37:13] <ya314> also, impact.sourceforge.net can handle a crush test of a car, coefficients of strains of sheet-metals
[21:38:46] <ya314> SWPadnos: i'm modelling 2D for simple details, then using brlcad.org suite to dxf-g and g-'some_format' it. then loads and so on. Worked in ANSYS (Ed license).
[21:38:53] <motioncontrol> yam314 is possible you can the example for the load the my configuration in one file and not open the window select driver when emc start?
[21:39:32] <SWPadnos> motioncontrol, there are two ways to make EMC just start up:
[21:39:37] <SWPadnos> actually sort of 3
[21:39:48] <ya314> all this must take 10-15 minutes, i mean most of 2D details. When we're talking about a plant or a firm, 40 working hours a week
[21:39:49] <SWPadnos> you can make a desktop icon for the selected config, and just run EMC from that
[21:40:06] <jepler> motioncontrol: emc ~/emc2/configs/sim/axis.ini
[21:40:07] <SWPadnos> from a terminal, you can run "emc -l", which will run the last selected configuration
[21:40:17] <SWPadnos> or that one, specify the ini file directly
[21:40:35] <ya314> motioncontrol: no, NO, I've just imagined what are you trying to say
[21:45:30] <motioncontrol> ya314 i don't understand. if i write in one termila ./emc -1 the window selsct driver not start?
[21:46:53] <jepler> motioncontrol: "emc -l", not "emc -1". if you can't read the difference between "l" and "1" (ell and one) then use a different font.
[21:46:57] <jepler> in your irc client
[21:47:26] <motioncontrol> ok thanks jepler
[22:25:23] <ya314> ok, quitting. Will try it tomorrow
[23:13:25] <biqut2> quick question...what is the proper way to setup a slave on the X axis in emc, i just set P8 and P9 to match P2 and P3 but it wont jog both motors at the same time
[23:24:24] <biqut2> nm bbl