#emc | Logs for 2009-01-05

[00:29:08] <skunkworks> heh - lower the gate resistance - the higer the current limit trip.. I don't think I get it. (getting the scope tomorrow)
[00:29:19] <skunkworks> Imagine that :)
[00:35:01] <LawrenceG> skunkworks, sounds like changing the gate resistance is changing the turn on/off speed and causing you to see a shoot thru current spike
[00:36:28] <LawrenceG> skunkworks, which is tripping the current limit circuit
[00:37:46] <LawrenceG> slow turn on and fast off is usually used to deal with the shoot thru problem when both high and low fets switch together
[01:12:25] <JayC911> anyone feeling patient enough to answer/help with a newbie question ? :)
[01:12:58] <cradek> don't ask to ask, just ask
[01:14:23] <JayC911> k, well I'm trying to use the live Ubuntu 22 cd ... it loads, but the screen is small in the middle of my screen and the bottom of all dialogs is cut off ... I chose the safe vieo option because stand is even worse
[01:15:14] <JayC911> I'm downloading the Drake live CD to try next
[01:15:16] <cradek> is the monitor hooked through a video switchbox, or just a normal cable?
[01:15:26] <JayC911> it's a Dell ^00 Laptop
[01:15:28] <JayC911> er 600
[01:15:46] <cradek> ah, dang laptops
[01:16:06] <cradek> have you searched ubuntuforums for help?
[01:16:46] <JayC911> now, I tried Google and came up empty I'll search for ubuntuforums
[01:18:10] <cradek> http://www.google.com/search?q=dell+600+video+ubuntu
[01:18:34] <cradek> looks like you are not the first or last with this problem
[02:14:50] <cradek> hi stuart, how was your vacation?
[02:15:25] <cradek> I'm coming to terms with going to work tomorrow for a 5 day week - something I haven't done for a while
[02:15:49] <DanielFalck> same here...
[02:15:55] <jmkasunich> and here
[02:16:29] <cradek> at least it's not just me.
[02:16:47] <cradek> I got a lot of stuff done. it was a good vacation.
[02:17:54] <jmkasunich> I got less done than I wanted to
[02:18:35] <cradek> caught up with some old friends, fixed a lot of stuff around the house, got some emc code written, got hay for the rest of the winter, etc etc.
[02:18:37] <jmkasunich> no progress on 5i20-fying my step generation (although I did make good progress on generating an as-built wiring diagram for the shoptask - only a year late)
[02:19:02] <jmkasunich> no playing with the Ametek motor (although I did get the encoder and servo drive board)
[02:19:16] <cradek> is that the spindle motor you hope to use?
[02:19:28] <jmkasunich> no, those surplus center servos
[02:19:46] <jmkasunich> the spindle drive project wasn't even on the list for this vacation
[02:19:56] <cradek> ah
[02:20:15] <jmkasunich> I did a lot of hiking with the dog though - time well spent
[02:20:28] <cradek> that's better than servos
[02:20:34] <jmkasunich> and I made fairly good progress on the jig rebuild job
[02:21:21] <jmkasunich> what feed-per-rev do you use for parting?
[02:21:39] <Vernon> Vernon is now known as vlmarshall
[02:22:05] <cradek> .001-.002
[02:22:07] <jmkasunich> I'm cutting a thread relief groove, but its the same thing - plunge straight in
[02:23:12] <cradek> very slow speed (25-50)
[02:23:34] <jmkasunich> unfortunately I don't have variable speed
[02:24:11] <jmkasunich> although I could cut the thread OD and shoulder on both parts first, then write another program to do the groove, and change speed for that
[02:24:30] <cradek> are you having trouble, or just nervous before trying?
[02:24:37] <jmkasunich> nervous about chatter
[02:25:10] <jmkasunich> if I screw up either of these parts, I have to back track quite a bit (all the way back to tapping 5/8-5 acme)
[02:25:27] <cradek> ick
[02:25:48] <jmkasunich> I think I'll do the od and shoulder, then I can mdi or jog the plunge cut
[02:26:04] <cradek> I wouldn't jog it
[02:26:35] <cradek> well I guess you can continuous jog slow. I was thinking jog wheel.
[02:26:47] <jmkasunich> I don't have a wheel (yet)
[02:28:01] <jmkasunich> bronze machines almost like brass
[02:28:10] <jmkasunich> except the chips are a lot hotter
[02:28:44] <cradek> any scrap to experiment on?
[02:28:58] <jmkasunich> not really
[02:29:12] <jmkasunich> I have a bit of 1" bar, but I'd have to mess with my setup
[02:29:47] <jmkasunich> I'm doing the OD (shoulder and threads) of the acme nuts, so I have a piece of acme rod in the chuck, that I screw the nut on to
[02:30:25] <cradek> so they have threads inside and out?
[02:30:45] <jmkasunich> yeah, 5/8-5 acme on the inside, 7/8-16 conventional on the outside
[02:30:50] <JayC911> back, is there anyway for me to modify the xorg.conf file on the live CD, or will I need to install it?
[02:30:57] <cradek> fun
[02:31:12] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/worm03.jpg
[02:31:14] <jmkasunich> on the right
[02:31:25] <cradek> JayC911: you can modify it during a boot, but of course the change will be lost when you shut down
[02:31:33] <JayC911> ok
[02:31:56] <JayC911> I want to test the chnage before I commit
[02:32:21] <cradek> JayC911: will you eventually want to control a machine with this laptop?
[02:32:34] <cradek> (most laptops make notoriously bad machine controls)
[02:34:08] <JayC911> I use Mach3 currently ... works fine ... just wanted to see how Linux plays
[02:36:46] <JayC911> can you tell me the steps to chnage the xorg file before it boots? ... I know wherethe file is, but I need to edit it before it's loaded/called
[02:40:35] <cradek> you can't change it before it boots; change after the boot, then restart X
[02:41:00] <JayC911> ok
[02:53:50] <vlmarshall> Will EMC run on Xubuntu?
[02:54:30] <vlmarshall> I'm in the same boat, JayC, trying *nix and EMC for the first time.
[02:54:39] <cradek> sure it will
[02:55:10] <vlmarshall> I thought I was gonna love it at first, but I'm getting frustrated.
[02:55:11] <cradek> it will on any modern linux distribution, but dapper/hardy ubuntu based ones will let you use our realtime kernel and packages (saving you a lot of effort)
[02:55:33] <jmkasunich> vlmarshall: what is the issue?
[02:55:45] <vlmarshall> latency spikes
[02:55:53] <eric_unterhausen> if you want to experience frustration, trying to install emc yourself will provide
[02:55:55] <jmkasunich> xubuntu is unlikely to help there
[02:56:04] <vlmarshall> darn
[02:56:13] <eric_unterhausen> what kind of machine?
[02:56:18] <cradek> that's almost always a hardware problem
[02:56:34] <jmkasunich> if its a laptop, you've already been told that is probably a bad thing
[02:56:47] <vlmarshall> intel 1.5GHz, 384megs
[02:56:51] <cradek> some hints here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
[02:56:52] <jmkasunich> laptops have too much extremely low-level crap going on - power management, fan control, etc
[02:56:55] <vlmarshall> ha no laptop, I know better from Mach.
[02:57:25] <jmkasunich> have you tried the SMI module?
[02:57:38] <vlmarshall> it just great latency numbers at forst, around 12-14000, and then spikes around 200000
[02:57:45] <vlmarshall> no, what's that?
[02:57:53] <jmkasunich> do the spikes happen every 64 seconds?
[02:57:58] <vlmarshall> I'm a total linux newbie
[02:58:15] <eric_unterhausen> sounds like smi
[02:58:22] <vlmarshall> hmm, I saw the mention of the maintenance thing around 64 secs...
[02:58:23] <jmkasunich> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?FixingSMIIssues
[03:00:15] <vlmarshall> ok, it's gone over 64 secs without a spike
[03:00:42] <vlmarshall> still going. nothing else running on it at the moment
[03:01:11] <jmkasunich> do you have any observations about what does make it spike? or is it totally random, out of the blue?
[03:01:17] <cradek> did you read http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting
[03:02:09] <vlmarshall> yes, I've read it, and run the extended latency test
[03:02:13] <vlmarshall> with no overruns
[03:02:46] <vlmarshall> still no spike on that current test
[03:02:54] <vlmarshall> idling, it's fine
[03:03:01] <cradek> what triggers it?
[03:03:24] <vlmarshall> I'm not really sure.
[03:04:28] <vlmarshall> well, there's a crash. I opened a firefox, with no spike, and then added EMC.
[03:04:42] <cradek> you can't run emc and the latency test together
[03:04:50] <vlmarshall> haha oops
[03:05:11] <vlmarshall> oh yeah, I knew that.
[03:05:56] <vlmarshall> figures it wouldn't spike now
[03:06:27] <vlmarshall> I've been fighting it for 2 days. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70830
[03:06:51] <JayC911> update: got the video sorted
[03:07:12] <cradek> JayC911: yay
[03:10:16] <cradek> vlmarshall: I don't see a problem statement or a question in that thread, but there is a lot of noise - I didn't read it all
[03:10:29] <vlmarshall> yeah sorry about that.
[03:11:03] <cradek> not many emc folks on cnczone. signal-to-noise is much better on our mailing lists.
[03:11:11] <vlmarshall> ok I'll quit bugging y'all until I have more solid facts. It's running fine at the moment.
[03:11:35] <cradek> try running glxgears while the latency test is going
[03:11:43] <cradek> also, move/maximize windows
[03:11:44] <vlmarshall> yeah, I've heard about the lists, but I haven't gotten settled in enough yet to join
[03:11:59] <vlmarshall> yeah I've got 'gears running now too
[03:12:03] <cradek> yeah, I understand, lurking for a while is always a good idea
[03:12:48] <vlmarshall> It's just a little hobby mill, I don't really take it seriously, but this problem has been tough.
[03:13:24] <vlmarshall> I was really happy to see EMC, and it's macro variables.
[03:13:34] <cradek> latency spikes suck. sometimes you just need to use a different machine. but I don't think you have complete enough information yet to give up on this machine.
[03:14:29] <vlmarshall> Yeah I'm not ready to give up yet, but the unfamiliarity was frustrating.
[03:14:45] <vlmarshall> no idea if I could go buy a new vid card and have it work
[03:14:59] <cradek> what video card is it?
[03:15:00] <vlmarshall> I was SURE it was video related
[03:15:01] <jepler> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=30550203
[03:15:07] <cradek> have you tried the vesa video driver?
[03:15:11] <vlmarshall> some ati
[03:15:27] <vlmarshall> no, don't know where it is
[03:15:44] <jmkasunich> jepler: !!
[03:17:07] <cradek> vlmarshall: in /etc/X11/xorg.conf, put Driver "vesa" in Section "Device"
[03:18:49] <cradek> if it's video, that is very likely to fix it
[03:19:18] <vlmarshall> ha ok I'll try it
[03:20:22] <vlmarshall> Leave the other bits about the ATI card?
[03:20:38] <cradek> what's in your Section "Device"?
[03:21:14] <vlmarshall> Identifier " ATI tech ...radeon rv100 qy [radeon 7000/ve]
[03:21:26] <vlmarshall> BusID "PCI:1:0:0"
[03:21:54] <cradek> yeah leave everything, just add Driver "vesa"
[03:21:59] <vlmarshall> rgr
[03:22:19] <vlmarshall> same ATI info is in Section "Screen"
[03:22:28] <JayC911> yeah, my laptop is ATI ... can you post the "Screen" section of your xorg.conf
[03:22:40] <JayC911> I had to make a few chnages:
[03:22:44] <vlmarshall> I can type it.
[03:22:52] <JayC911> one was to use 1024x768 16bit
[03:22:54] <vlmarshall> can't paste between computers :)
[03:23:06] <JayC911> well, wait
[03:23:33] <JayC911> what is your DefaultDepth
[03:24:34] <vlmarshall> 24
[03:24:46] <JayC911> change to 16
[03:24:50] <vlmarshall> ha I was about to paste it. I saved it to flashdrive
[03:24:52] <vlmarshall> ok
[03:25:04] <JayC911> are you editing the xorg.conf with the sudo command?
[03:25:15] <vlmarshall> leave Screen's Device as ATI?
[03:25:19] <JayC911> yeah
[03:25:26] <vlmarshall> crap no, I opened it with editor.
[03:25:34] <vlmarshall> duh
[03:25:41] <JayC911> also
[03:25:55] <JayC911> what is your h and vert refresh?
[03:26:07] <JayC911> HorizSync VertRefresh
[03:26:28] <cradek> JayC911: his settings will surely be different from what your laptop needs
[03:26:34] <vlmarshall> it doesn't list them
[03:27:36] <JayC911> yeah, it'll be monitor dependent ... but setting the bits down won't do any harm
[03:28:12] <vlmarshall> well, I don't know how to get to it (from Terminal, I suppose), but, I've had no latency spike in all this time.
[03:28:19] <JayC911> run terminal
[03:28:26] <JayC911> then cd /etc/X11
[03:28:32] <JayC911> sudo gedit xorg.conf
[03:32:23] <JayC911> well, now kb stopped responding ... I'll check back later
[03:32:48] <vlmarshall> geez, took me forever to get to the directory.
[03:33:45] <vlmarshall> ok there's several 'Depth's . Just change the Default Depth?
[03:34:16] <cradek> why are you changing depth?
[03:34:25] <cradek> you were going to try Driver "vesa"
[03:34:27] <vlmarshall> There's a subsection for depth 1,4,8,15,16, and 24
[03:34:42] <vlmarshall> yeah I changed that. I guess it was Jay that said to change the depth.
[03:35:14] <cradek> I don't know what Jay is doing. I thought he was doing something on his.
[03:35:21] <vlmarshall> ok.
[03:35:49] <vlmarshall> well, latency went up a bunch, but nothing unreasonable so far.
[03:36:20] <cradek> you restarted X after changing to vesa?
[03:36:31] <vlmarshall> restarting now
[03:36:39] <vlmarshall> x?
[03:37:09] <vlmarshall> haha sorry for being such a newbie.
[03:37:26] <vlmarshall> that's why I haven't touched a *nix.
[03:37:27] <cradek> control-alt-backspace will kill and restart X, or you could reboot.
[03:38:43] <vlmarshall> gah
[03:38:50] <vlmarshall> 60Hz refresh rate
[03:39:14] <vlmarshall> annoying flicker
[03:39:16] <vlmarshall> haha
[03:39:46] <vlmarshall> that's 85Hz? no way. I can SEE it.
[03:40:00] <cradek> interlaced maybe
[03:40:28] <vlmarshall> yeah, I'll believe that. ah well, if it fixes the latency...
[03:40:45] <cradek> it's a data point anyway. nothing says you have to leave it this way.
[03:40:56] <vlmarshall> exactly.
[03:41:00] <vlmarshall> spike.
[03:41:03] <vlmarshall> it just spiked.
[03:41:07] <cradek> to what?
[03:41:22] <vlmarshall> ran for 10 secs or so, jumped to 243259
[03:41:29] <vlmarshall> from 9000ish
[03:41:36] <cradek> did anything just happen? fan start or stop? hard disk spin down or up?
[03:41:42] <vlmarshall> nope
[03:41:52] <vlmarshall> ok started another
[03:41:53] <cradek> hm, yeah, that's an unusable number
[03:41:56] <vlmarshall> 8254
[03:42:07] <cradek> seems like it's not video
[03:42:10] <vlmarshall> spike
[03:42:17] <cradek> do you have all power saving, speed scaling, etc turned off in the bios?
[03:42:18] <vlmarshall> 249601
[03:42:20] <vlmarshall> yes
[03:42:36] <vlmarshall> no option for scaling, this is a win 2k machine
[03:42:52] <cradek> is this video built in or a card?
[03:43:00] <vlmarshall> built in
[03:43:10] <cradek> that's often trouble. do you have a card you can try?
[03:43:39] <vlmarshall> not that I can find
[03:44:11] <cradek> here let me fax you one to try
[03:44:19] <vlmarshall> I've been digging through stuff all evening
[03:44:23] <vlmarshall> haha yeah
[03:44:50] <vlmarshall> sorry, my rapid-prototyping fax is out of resin :)
[03:47:13] <cradek> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200293613356
[03:47:20] <cradek> I think this is what's in my lathe
[03:47:40] <cradek> they're affordable and have not failed me yet, I have a stack of them (millenium II)
[03:48:14] <vlmarshall> yeah I probably have one in a box somewhere
[03:48:24] <vlmarshall> that and an ATI
[03:49:28] <eric_unterhausen> $4, that's nice
[03:49:43] <cradek> yep
[03:49:43] <cradek> 00:05.0 VGA compatible controller: Matrox Graphics, Inc. MGA 2164W [Millennium II]
[03:51:14] <vlmarshall> argh. X not starting. I messed up the config switching it back.
[03:51:55] <cradek> (--) MGA(0): VideoRAM: 4096 kByte
[03:52:03] <cradek> mine is apparently 4MB thought, not 2MB
[03:52:06] <cradek> though
[03:53:33] <vlmarshall> ok I can't edit xog.conf from a prompt?
[03:53:40] <cradek> sure you can
[03:54:14] <eric_unterhausen> yeah, but vi might explode his brain
[03:54:34] <cradek> oh right, I don't know what editor to suggest
[03:54:39] <eric_unterhausen> vi
[03:54:46] <cradek> what is the terrible default ubuntu one?
[03:54:50] <eric_unterhausen> vi
[03:54:50] <cradek> I get it sometimes accidentally
[03:54:53] <cradek> no no no
[03:55:09] <eric_unterhausen> vim?
[03:55:18] <cradek> no, nothing like that
[03:55:28] <cradek> it's the one that has help at the bottom
[03:55:48] <eric_unterhausen> vi so much better
[03:55:57] <cradek> not if you've never used it before
[03:55:58] <eric_unterhausen> emacs?
[03:56:27] <eric_unterhausen> I just run dpackage-reconfigure-xorg blahdeblahblah
[03:56:52] <cradek> oh yeah, that would just put it back
[03:57:25] <JayC911> goodnite guys, thanks for the help
[03:57:33] <JayC911> v .. .sorry if I confused you
[03:58:23] <cradek> nano!
[03:58:37] <cradek> finally figured it out
[03:58:42] <cradek> (gnu clone of pico)
[03:59:16] <eric_unterhausen> sudo dpackage reconfigure xserver-xorg
[03:59:30] <eric_unterhausen> hit enter until done ;)
[03:59:42] <cradek> I think it's spelled dpkg-reconfigure
[04:00:02] <eric_unterhausen> freakin' google lied to me
[04:00:47] <vlmarshall> yeah that's it haha
[04:01:05] <eric_unterhausen> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[04:01:41] <vlmarshall> yup
[04:01:55] <vlmarshall> ok what about this kernel framebuffer?
[04:02:04] <vlmarshall> use it?
[04:02:31] <eric_unterhausen> did I mention that you should hit enter until done?
[04:02:33] <eric_unterhausen> :)
[04:02:34] <vlmarshall> I don't know if it was on before.
[04:02:37] <vlmarshall> hahah ok fine :D
[04:02:46] <vlmarshall> that's be a No haha
[04:02:47] <eric_unterhausen> I have no idea what any of that stuff does
[04:04:04] <eric_unterhausen> I went through there and tried to decide what to do about each entry, and it didn't change anything as far as I could tell
[04:07:50] <vlmarshall> yay, a gui again
[04:07:55] <vlmarshall> haha
[04:08:15] <vlmarshall> how spoiled we've become.
[04:08:19] <vlmarshall> yeah I'm old.
[04:09:07] <vlmarshall> ok running latency test again
[04:09:16] <vlmarshall> spike.
[04:09:17] <vlmarshall> crap
[04:09:29] <vlmarshall> what a pile.
[04:09:41] <eric_unterhausen> built in video is probably no good
[04:09:45] <vlmarshall> yeah
[04:10:04] <vlmarshall> guess I'd better find a card
[04:10:08] <eric_unterhausen> where are you located?
[04:10:22] <vlmarshall> virginia, usa.
[04:10:59] <eric_unterhausen> I'm as close to the geographic center of Pennsylvania as you can get without being in prison
[04:11:07] <vlmarshall> I was sure I had one here but I found everything BUT video.
[04:11:26] <vlmarshall> want a box of modems? haha
[04:11:53] <eric_unterhausen> I know what you're talking about, I really should dump my collection of obsolete computer parts
[04:12:15] <vlmarshall> yeah but it's COOL to keep an old full-height HD :)
[04:14:15] <vlmarshall> if I bought a new card, can X handle it?
[04:14:34] <eric_unterhausen> yes
[04:15:23] <vlmarshall> thing is, my wife's bugging me to put a better vid card in THIS machine, and play Left4Dead networked with her. So, I can't justify ANOTHER card... and this thing's onboard too.
[04:15:48] <vlmarshall> she just bought some new card for hers yesterday.
[04:16:00] <vlmarshall> too bad there's no leftover from that.
[04:16:43] <vlmarshall> well, thanks for all the help, I guess I'm off to go digging again
[04:16:56] <vlmarshall> most likely I'll be back :D
[04:17:55] <vlmarshall> I really want to stick with Linux.
[04:18:10] <eric_unterhausen> dual boot is no problem
[05:27:56] <eric_unterhausen> you'd think the eagle developers could take a week and put out a 64bit linux version
[05:35:03] <biqut2> i actually spoke with the eagle developers about that and they insist there is no reason for them to
[05:36:04] <eric_unterhausen> nice
[05:38:00] <biqut2> i also inquired about a PPC version so i can do my pcb work from my PS3 and there answer to all my questions was that there isnt a significant market for them to develop for any other system
[05:38:16] <eric_unterhausen> I can see that
[05:39:01] <biqut2> the bright side is that if you have all ro the 32 bit libs installed you can run it on a 64 bit ssystem which is what i do
[05:39:21] <eric_unterhausen> are you running on ubuntu?
[05:39:50] <biqut2> i actually run Arch, i hate ubuntu
[05:40:50] <biqut2> I kinda hold a grudge against them for basicly "stealing" all the work debian has done over the years
[05:41:32] <biqut2> are you trying to get eagle running on a 64bit install of ubuntu?
[05:41:37] <eric_unterhausen> yes
[05:42:07] <eric_unterhausen> last time I tried to install debian, I gave up because the setup was so brain-dead
[05:42:43] <biqut2> oh i see
[05:43:15] <eric_unterhausen> I had gotten sick of fedora/red hat, but I only have so much time
[05:45:54] <biqut2> well since im not an ubuntu guy myself all i can say is that you should be abse to install the ia32 libs and eagle should run other than that I dont know all of the ubuntu specifics
[05:46:19] <eric_unterhausen> I have yet to figure out why these distributions don't steal each other's installers, what's the point of open source?
[05:46:43] <eric_unterhausen> I guess I need to figure out how to install the 32 bit libraries
[05:47:52] <biqut2> some of them do steal and that is exactly what ubuntu has done, they stole everything debian has done and gave nothing back which is not in the open source spirit
[05:48:05] <biqut2> im assuming you have root access
[05:48:12] <biqut2> right?
[05:48:14] <eric_unterhausen> yes
[05:49:10] <biqut2> try apt-get install ia32-libs as the root user
[05:52:00] <biqut2> do you know how to use apt-get from the command line?
[05:52:06] <eric_unterhausen> yes
[05:53:14] <biqut2> that should install everything you need then good luck with getting eagle install
[05:53:29] <eric_unterhausen> it only installed 6 libs
[05:53:45] <eric_unterhausen> the libX ... were not installed
[05:53:50] <biqut2> will eagle install now?
[05:54:23] <eric_unterhausen> it did, thanks
[05:54:29] <biqut2> no prob
[05:54:45] <eric_unterhausen> that's what I get for reading error messages
[05:58:15] <biqut2> yep when in doubt consult man pages
[05:58:29] <eric_unterhausen> which man page for that?
[05:59:13] <biqut2> i dont know of one off the top of my head
[06:00:01] <biqut2> but at least you have it working now
[06:00:25] <eric_unterhausen> surprised that isn't mentioned on the ubuntu forums
[06:02:26] <eric_unterhausen> problem is, my experience with using yum is down the tubes
[06:02:44] <biqut2> it probably is somewhere but i wouldnt know where, but if you get a chance i do recommend trying out debian or what is best is that i recommend everyone build their own linux system from scratch at one point or anther
[06:04:39] <biqut2> will apt-get is a thousand times better than yum so you made a great choice
[06:05:08] <eric_unterhausen> I've heard that, but I'm not sure I believe it
[06:07:22] <biqut2> trust me it is. debian has bar none the best package managment system (which ubuntu stole) it is the largest software repo, the only down side is if you want a slimmed down system some of the packages are a little bloated
[06:08:52] <eric_unterhausen> Is the main advantage the repos?
[06:10:59] <biqut2> yes and the easy system upgrades
[06:11:50] <eric_unterhausen> system upgrade would be nice, I had to get a new computer because I didn't want to upgrade my fedora version :)
[06:13:06] <biqut2> and if you are using debian rather than ubuntu, they put their software through alot of testing before they publish it so it in among the most secure
[06:13:38] <biqut2> was you wanting to upgrade the fedora install or the ubuntu install?
[06:14:15] <eric_unterhausen> fedora
[06:15:18] <biqut2> hhmm its been many moons since i used redhat so im afraid i wouldnt be much help there
[06:15:56] <eric_unterhausen> no prob, I need to back it up and wipe the hard drive and start w/ a new install
[06:16:00] <eric_unterhausen> that's the fedora way
[06:16:52] <biqut2> lol, reminds me of the rebooting windows days
[06:17:30] <eric_unterhausen> they have upgrades, and a while back they tried an experiment upgrading with yum
[06:17:42] <eric_unterhausen> but my version preceded that
[06:17:44] <fragalot> fragalot is now known as Guest33641
[06:17:53] <biqut2> oh
[06:18:11] <biqut2> well you wont have that problem with debian or ubuntu
[06:19:38] <biqut2> well im off to bed nite all
[06:19:59] <eric_unterhausen> thanks for the help, good night
[10:19:22] <alex_joni> How can you tell when you're out of invisible ink?
[10:21:42] <archivist> you never run out
[10:28:48] <alex_joni> you'd think so
[10:29:06] <archivist> its magic
[10:35:58] <alex_joni> If your car could travel at the speed of light, would your headlights work?
[11:13:18] <Guest33641> Guest33641 is now known as fragalot
[11:22:32] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: Assuming you turned them on BEFORE moving, yes.
[11:23:28] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: ...and that you never have any turns to make =)
[11:36:35] <alex_joni> well.. I'm not so sure
[11:36:48] <alex_joni> that might be true for the first 100m or so..
[11:38:02] <archivist> no turning at the speed of light as there are some silly mass problems alleged
[11:57:25] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: Well, if you turn on your lights for (lets say) 10 seconds before you start moving and that you can accelerate from o to 186,000 MPS in 0 seconds, You'ld have at least 1.8 million miles of light before you ran out =)
[11:58:05] <archivist> * archivist hugs the inverse square law
[11:58:32] <archivist> re light from a point source
[11:59:33] <JymmmEMC> Fine, 500,000 miles
[11:59:48] <JymmmEMC> but who's counting =)
[11:59:51] <archivist> more like 1/2 a mile
[11:59:59] <piasdom> g'day all and Happy New Year
[12:00:08] <pjm__> morning / afternoon all
[12:00:13] <pjm__> HNY!
[12:00:16] <JymmmEMC> archivist: how do you get from 2 million miles to 1/4 mile?
[12:00:18] <archivist> waaaa
[12:00:50] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: light from a headlight doesn't travel 500.000 miles
[12:01:06] <archivist> JymmmEMC, learn the inverse square law and you will know the light will be too dim
[12:01:23] <JymmmEMC> but you will be moving too
[12:01:28] <alex_joni> doesn't matter
[12:01:41] <alex_joni> the new light coming out of the headlights travels at the same speed as you
[12:01:49] <alex_joni> so it won't appear in front of you :)
[12:01:58] <archivist> pjm__, battles the same law with microwaves
[12:02:09] <JymmmEMC> but the light doesn't stay at the car even standing still, it projects
[12:02:18] <alex_joni> at what velocity?
[12:02:26] <JymmmEMC> any
[12:02:30] <alex_joni> nope, only one
[12:02:33] <alex_joni> speed of light :)
[12:02:46] <alex_joni> if you move the light source at the exact same speed, it won't project anymore
[12:02:50] <archivist> Lucas named their headlights projectors at the turn of the 20th century
[12:03:09] <pjm__> interesting Q "If your car could travel at the speed of light, would your headlights work?"
[12:03:13] <archivist> my useless fact for this century
[12:03:14] <alex_joni> we need to merge archivist with wikipedia
[12:03:23] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: Yeah? think about that the next time you use your headlights standing still... light is not at the bumper, it's at leat 1/8 mile down the road too
[12:03:34] <alex_joni> because it got there
[12:03:36] <pjm__> does it depend on where the observer is? if they are also travelling at the speed of light then since its relative, the lights will work?
[12:03:58] <alex_joni> pjm__: the observer is supposed to be inside the car
[12:04:00] <archivist> * archivist doesnt believe all this relativity stuff
[12:04:00] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: Right, but it doesn't STOP being project from the headlamp
[12:04:08] <alex_joni> of course it doesn't
[12:04:16] <alex_joni> but the lamp is standing still
[12:04:38] <alex_joni> pjm__: the obvious answer is "of course they still work :D"
[12:04:49] <pjm__> yeah thats what I thought
[12:04:52] <JymmmEMC> you will NEVER catch up to the light that's 1/8 mile down the road
[12:04:54] <alex_joni> the second question is .. do they shine light in front of you?
[12:05:05] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: but it only travels for 1/8 mile
[12:05:05] <pjm__> of course they do
[12:05:11] <pjm__> relative to the observer
[12:05:29] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: maybe switching it before starting to move will work
[12:05:40] <pjm__> light will leave the lamp at 2X light speed
[12:05:42] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: That's what I said
[12:05:46] <alex_joni> pjm__: no it won't
[12:06:02] <JymmmEMC> pjm__: you cant go fast than the speed of light
[12:06:02] <pjm__> ah under the current laws of physics perhaps not
[12:06:08] <pjm__> see above
[12:06:09] <alex_joni> heh :)
[12:06:21] <archivist> whats light travelling "in"
[12:06:32] <JymmmEMC> archivist: you suck
[12:06:51] <archivist> Im not a black hole
[12:06:55] <JymmmEMC> archivist: (vacuum)
[12:07:08] <archivist> aether
[12:07:13] <JymmmEMC> archivist: maybe a black hole of info =)
[12:07:15] <alex_joni> archivist: small buckets
[12:07:39] <archivist> I cannot believe the wave AND photon
[12:07:49] <pjm__> ok question,, earth is travelling in orbit at about 107,218 km/h, and light speed is about 299792.458Km / sec. If I shine a laser in the same direction as Earths orbit, how fast would the 'speed of light' be to an observer not on earth?
[12:08:01] <archivist> if wave then there IS an aether
[12:08:10] <alex_joni> pjm__: you don't have such a question
[12:08:13] <alex_joni> er...
[12:08:15] <alex_joni> such a laser
[12:08:36] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: I do, and it has a cool shark too!
[12:08:37] <pjm__> this laser exists in the world not governed by the current laws of physics
[12:08:59] <pjm__> ok not lazer but say a microwave transmitter
[12:09:05] <pjm__> laser i mean
[12:09:05] <alex_joni> I guess at the speed of light
[12:09:17] <pjm__> plus the speed of the earths transit through space?
[12:09:18] <alex_joni> the speed perceived by you will be less though
[12:09:24] <alex_joni> the other way around
[12:09:44] <alex_joni> light travels at the speed of light
[12:09:49] <alex_joni> not relative to some ref. frame
[12:09:53] <alex_joni> I think :)
[12:10:13] <JymmmEMC> Ok, if a laser pointer is a pure source of light at a given wavelength. Why is it that when you point it at the wall it has a "specilly" appearance to it?
[12:10:32] <pjm__> ok if u have a ball and can throw it at 20mph, and throw it forward from a moving car that goes 20mph, a static observer would see the ball go 40mph?
[12:10:41] <JymmmEMC> (simple laser pointer)
[12:11:05] <pjm__> where as the car driver would see it go forward at 20mph, does this not apply (in a simple way) to light speed + earths transit speed
[12:11:15] <pjm__> i know F all about this as u can probably tell ;-)
[12:11:15] <JymmmEMC> oh, and I'm serious too.
[12:11:18] <alex_joni> owever, as speeds increase this rule becomes less accurate. Two spaceships approaching each other, each traveling at 90% the speed of light relative to some third observer, would not measure each other as approaching at 90% + 90% = 180% the speed of light; instead they each measure the other as approaching at slightly less than 99.5% the speed of light.
[12:11:48] <pjm__> that assumed the speed of light is the maximum possible speed though?
[12:11:57] <alex_joni> right
[12:12:02] <alex_joni> because of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity-addition_formula
[12:12:57] <alex_joni> If one of the velocities for the above formula (or both) are c, the final result is c, as is expected if the speed of light is the same in all reference frames. Another important result is that this formula always returns a value which is less than c whenever v1 and v2 are less than c: this shows that no acceleration in any frame of reference can cause one to exceed the speed of light with respect to another observer. Thus c acts as a speed l
[12:14:21] <pjm__> can we get stephen hawking in here???
[12:14:32] <pjm__> he probably needs a CNC milling machine for something
[12:14:55] <alex_joni> heh
[12:18:38] <JymmmEMC> I am serious about this... Ok, if a laser pointer is a pure source of light at a given wavelength. Why is it that when you point it at the wall it has a "specilly" appearance to it?
[12:19:19] <archivist> diffraction
[12:19:30] <JymmmEMC> ?
[12:20:48] <archivist> I want to find my laser level to try out an ebay toy
[12:21:14] <archivist> I cant explain diffraction in irc
[12:21:23] <JymmmEMC> ok
[12:22:00] <JymmmEMC> damn, I can never remember what the trailing slash in rsync does
[12:22:52] <JymmmEMC> I want to rsync a folder and all it's contents to a remote server
[12:37:59] <pjm__> /usr/bin/rsync -avzrtlue 'ssh -p 1234' /sourcedir user@remote.host:/destdir is what I have here for updating my www over rsync over ssh
[12:40:12] <JymmmEMC> that's a push, right?
[12:41:00] <pjm__> yeah it pushes from my local server here over inet to a remote box
[12:41:11] <pjm__> i've got ssh setup with private keys etc
[12:41:35] <JymmmEMC> I've been using this as a PULL:
[12:41:40] <JymmmEMC> rsync --verbose --progress --stats --compress --recursive --times --perms --links user@remote.host:/home/user/ /home/user/public_html/blah/
[12:42:03] <JymmmEMC> but I need to PUSH this time
[12:42:41] <JymmmEMC> no keys, no rsyncd
[12:43:21] <JymmmEMC> would I just reverse the source and destination?
[12:53:13] <alex_joni> yup
[12:53:27] <alex_joni> archivist: short question for you
[12:53:55] <alex_joni> I have a wristwatch, how would I go on and sand the glass on it.. it's pretty scratched
[12:54:15] <archivist> just replace normally
[12:54:25] <alex_joni> no replacement..
[12:54:36] <alex_joni> not sure I'm able to ;)
[12:55:07] <archivist> well its a cheap item at a watchmakers (should be)
[12:55:21] <archivist> depends on make etc
[12:55:26] <archivist> and fitting
[12:56:27] <archivist> only the waterproof glasses have a special fitting and some Rolex
[12:56:34] <archivist> and Omega
[12:57:54] <archivist> is it a real glass or plastic
[12:59:32] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: you can try buffing it out
[12:59:49] <alex_joni> sound slike real glass
[12:59:53] <alex_joni> cK watch
[13:00:23] <alex_joni> it says water resistant on the bottom 100Ft
[13:00:27] <archivist> some have a Saphire "glass"
[13:00:31] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: I used a bench grinder and converted it to a buffer. bought a few cotton buffing wells and some compound
[13:00:43] <JymmmEMC> wheels
[13:01:17] <alex_joni> http://www.epinions.com/Calvin_Klein_K3212_30_Wrist_Watch
[13:01:35] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: I would suggest you test using a piece of glass, as it take practice
[13:02:00] <alex_joni> leather Strap, Mineral Crystal, Swiss Quartz, 30 Meters Water resistan
[13:02:40] <archivist> to retain waterproof use a watchmaker who knows what he is doing to replace
[13:02:48] <JymmmEMC> pjm__: Confirmed that going from PULL to PUSH is just a simply reverseing the source/destination
[13:02:58] <pjm__> ok great, is it working?
[13:03:06] <alex_joni> archivist: no real need for waterproof
[13:03:08] <JymmmEMC> pjm__: it's done =)
[13:03:12] <alex_joni> but I wouldn't want to replace it
[13:03:20] <archivist> Mineral Crystal == glass
[13:03:23] <JymmmEMC> archivist: I don't think he's going to take it apart
[13:03:31] <alex_joni> what JymmmEMC said :)
[13:03:32] <pjm__> cool, i use rsync for my nightly backup of my pine email directories here
[13:04:11] <archivist> I never bother polishing watch glasses here (we do clocks mainly)
[13:04:13] <JymmmEMC> pjm__: I usually pull to backup one of our vhosts, just needed to PUSH to a different server this time
[13:04:32] <pjm__> well good that its working
[13:04:49] <pjm__> rsync is under used imho, yet its an excellent tool
[13:05:24] <archivist> I under use it to the maximum possible
[13:05:30] <pjm__> hahhh
[13:06:00] <JymmmEMC> ther's also rdiff-backup == rsync + version control
[13:07:12] <JymmmEMC> Though, I do need to figure out how to grab symlinks in certain areas, and to follow symlinks in others
[13:11:25] <bigcx2> hey guys
[13:11:29] <alex_joni> hello
[13:11:44] <bigcx2> wow that was fast
[13:11:46] <bigcx2> lol
[13:12:02] <archivist> we are alive and well
[13:12:12] <alex_joni> and fast
[13:12:25] <bigcx2> well and fast
[13:12:25] <bigcx2> nice
[13:12:31] <bigcx2> well
[13:12:48] <bigcx2> i just wanted to say i appreciate what you guys have done with packaging of rtai stuff for ubuntu
[13:12:59] <bigcx2> and i had a question about building on top of it
[13:13:37] <bigcx2> i need to upgrade to an rtai version that is newer than rtai 3.6 because of the python support
[13:14:07] <alex_joni> the latest we packaged is 3.6.1
[13:14:12] <bigcx2> but i guess i need to know how the linux-image package, rtai-modules, etc. packages were put together
[13:14:16] <alex_joni> I would do it this way:
[13:14:38] <alex_joni> get the rtai source from http://www.linuxcnc.org/hardy/dists/hardy/base/source/rtai_3.6.1-linuxcnc.4.tar.gz
[13:14:53] <alex_joni> get the 3.6.2 rtai from rtai.org (or whatever version you need)
[13:14:57] <bigcx2> well i need the latest one
[13:14:57] <bigcx2> yea
[13:14:58] <bigcx2> ok
[13:15:05] <alex_joni> 3.6.2 or -cv
[13:15:21] <alex_joni> get the debian/ folder from the 3.6.1 source you got from linuxcnc
[13:15:27] <alex_joni> put it in the 3.6.2 dir
[13:15:38] <alex_joni> there's also a build script in the topdir
[13:15:45] <bigcx2> called what
[13:15:46] <alex_joni> use dch to change the version
[13:15:49] <alex_joni> build
[13:15:50] <alex_joni> :D
[13:15:54] <bigcx2> o :)
[13:16:13] <alex_joni> or build.sh
[13:16:21] <alex_joni> it's +x, so it's easy to find
[13:16:23] <bigcx2> ok
[13:16:40] <alex_joni> should work then to build a new package
[13:16:46] <alex_joni> install with sudo dpkg -i
[13:17:14] <bigcx2> so i shouldn't need to rebuild another linux-image?
[13:17:22] <alex_joni> nope
[13:17:24] <bigcx2> if so, that's awesome
[13:17:29] <bigcx2> yaaa
[13:17:33] <alex_joni> the whole thing should take about 10 mins tops
[13:17:36] <bigcx2> ok
[13:17:37] <alex_joni> including the downloads ;)
[13:17:45] <bigcx2> * bigcx2 starts his timer
[13:23:23] <bigcx2> i did a checkout of vulcano
[13:23:32] <bigcx2> i'm updating the changelog with dch
[13:23:50] <bigcx2> but i can't find what version that corresponds to : aka 3.6.?
[13:24:00] <bigcx2> in the rtai source anywhere
[13:25:03] <alex_joni> doesn't matter that much
[13:25:11] <bigcx2> just curious really
[13:25:23] <alex_joni> the version in the changelog isn't from rtai.org
[13:25:34] <alex_joni> it's the numbering we used for linuxcnc.org
[13:25:58] <alex_joni> if you got a CVS checkout, then there's no real version number
[13:26:11] <bigcx2> yea but it at least starts correctly
[13:26:11] <alex_joni> if you download 3.6.2 or 3.6-cv then that's your version number
[13:26:12] <bigcx2> 3.6.1-linuxcnc.4ubuntu1)
[13:26:33] <bigcx2> right...but vulcano as i understand it is the "stable" branch
[13:26:37] <jepler> I'm not sure why "dch" likes to append "ubuntu" to the version number on ubuntu, but it does
[13:26:47] <alex_joni> you can use 3.6.3-mumble.6
[13:26:51] <bigcx2> i'm kinda wondering what that corresponds to
[13:27:01] <bigcx2> mumble? lol
[13:27:04] <bigcx2> ok
[13:27:05] <alex_joni> bigcx2: it doesn't really correspond to anything
[13:27:11] <bigcx2> ok
[13:27:15] <alex_joni> the last version was 3.6.1-linuxcnc.4
[13:27:20] <jepler> Our package is based on 3.6.1, comes from linuxcnc, and there may have been 3 packages before that one. 3.6.1-linuxcnc.4
[13:27:27] <alex_joni> when you used dch it tried to increase the version number
[13:27:36] <bigcx2> yea
[13:27:50] <alex_joni> it did that by adding ubuntu1 at the end (it figured it's not an ubuntu official package, and now you're ubuntizing it)
[13:28:00] <alex_joni> so it's some "smart" branding dch does
[13:28:10] <bigcx2> no i know i've done packaging before
[13:28:14] <alex_joni> probably a dch -i would be more appropriate
[13:28:18] <bigcx2> seemed odd to me at first too
[13:28:20] <bigcx2> yea
[13:28:39] <bigcx2> i was jw about the rtai versioning that's all :)
[13:28:45] <bigcx2> btw
[13:29:01] <bigcx2> if you all need help or anything maintaining stuff i'd def. help
[13:29:18] <alex_joni> bigcx2: thanks for the offer
[13:29:35] <alex_joni> if you want to help drop an email to emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net (after subscribing ;)
[13:29:45] <alex_joni> and state in what areas you can help out..
[13:29:53] <bigcx2> ok
[13:29:56] <bigcx2> will do
[13:30:53] <bigcx2> also
[13:30:55] <bigcx2> http://www.linuxcnc.org/hardy/dists/hardy/base/source/rtai_3.6.1-linuxcnc.4.tar.gz
[13:31:15] <bigcx2> does that correspond to apt-get source rtai-modules
[13:31:19] <bigcx2> from your repo
[13:31:27] <alex_joni> yes
[13:31:30] <jepler> (fwiw, 3.6.cv as a debian package version is newer than 3.6.<digit>; if you're packaging 3.6-cv maybe that's the version number you want to start with)
[13:31:32] <alex_joni> at least for i386 :)
[13:32:11] <bigcx2> hm
[13:32:15] <alex_joni> bigcx2: but apt-get source rtai-modules-2.6.24-16-rtai is a lot more to type :D
[13:32:24] <bigcx2> right right lol
[13:32:36] <alex_joni> bigcx2: we also have amd64 packages
[13:32:38] <jepler> (if you're packaging something from the cvs that's expected to become 3.7, then call it something like 3.7~cvsYYYYMMDD; that version is lower than 3.7.0 in deiban numbering)
[13:33:42] <bigcx2> ok
[13:33:44] <bigcx2> i like that
[13:36:29] <bigcx2> alex_joni: yea i actually didn't know that until i ran apt-mirror on the linuxcnc archive on a 64-bit machine, and it didn't capture the 32-bit stuff!!!
[13:37:16] <alex_joni> :)
[13:37:29] <jepler> unfortunately, I've only had a chance to try the 64-bit stuff on one machine, and it's unstable there (while regular ubuntu is quite stable) so I don't think our 64-bit stuff is ready for production use yet :(
[13:38:40] <alex_joni> ;-)
[13:39:11] <jepler> "but I'm pretty sure it'll crash after about a week, so there"
[13:41:49] <rayh> jepler, I run it here 07:38:26 up 47 days, 22:30,
[13:42:37] <jepler> rayh: lucky you
[13:42:55] <jepler> hi ray, long time no chat
[13:43:38] <rayh> It has been a bit slow with the latest stuff from firefox. That flash or whatever thing.
[13:43:53] <rayh> I keep watching. Been busy of late.
[13:45:04] <jepler> I never figured out if there was a pattern to the crashes on my machine (amd, dual-core) but if I left the machine on it'd eventually just hang
[13:46:07] <rayh> Mine is a single core. That might do it.
[13:46:30] <jepler> I don't remember if I ever tried booting with only one cpu ..
[13:46:38] <jepler> (there must be a commandline arg for it)
[13:47:03] <rayh> model name: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3000+
[13:47:07] <archivist> this box Im on is a dual AMD
[13:47:39] <archivist> mine is at 118 days, firefox needs regular kills though
[13:47:55] <jepler> archivist: running the linuxcnc.org realtime kernels?
[13:48:47] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all, I've added a new module to our services installation, that may be of interest to those of you with enforce enabled. It may also cause some adverse interactions with auto-identify scripts, however. Please see http://blog.freenode.net/?p=164 for more information. Thank you for using freenode and have a great day!
[13:50:09] <rayh> archivist, It took me a while to find that firefox problem.
[13:50:38] <archivist> it has the generic kernel in mine
[13:51:06] <jepler> the regular ubuntu kernels are just fine on my machine as well (at least as long as I don't run vmware :-P)
[13:51:41] <rayh> Ah. I've got jeff's rtai running here.
[13:51:43] <archivist> rayh, I just reboot firefox when it slows or fails to play vids
[13:52:21] <rayh> Yep. When it acts up, everything slows way down. Like 2 second delays.
[13:52:38] <archivist> 2 to 30sec or more delays
[13:53:05] <rayh> Then it sounds like firefox plays the same on the stock and the rtai kernels.
[13:53:16] <archivist> takes a few minutes to time out when stopping it
[13:54:38] <alex_joni> there is some bug in the latest couple of versions of flash
[13:54:55] <alex_joni> some vid playing freeze after a while, playing only 2-5 seconds, then it pauses
[13:56:02] <rayh> I kill off npviewer when it starts to act up.
[13:57:01] <archivist> I must try that next time
[13:57:57] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all, terribly sorry to bother you *again* but regardless of how much hairdye I go through, I can't get away from being blonde. Needless to say, my previous global resulted in inadvertedly ddosing the machine hosting the blog and website. Please try again later and for now, call me Homer and watch me Doh!
[13:58:07] <jepler> yeah, on my laptop the 32-bit flash9 would stop working after awhile until I restarted firefox. the native flash10 doesn't do that, but in certain games it flickers annoyingly
[13:58:23] <jepler> (64-bit, dual core laptop; different machine from the one I tried to run realtime on)
[13:58:29] <rayh> http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?s=9135c9a802cfb294c666806ece1e6a4d&p=1089691#post1089691
[13:58:56] <rayh> Sounds like they have some work to do on firefox.
[13:59:09] <jepler> when it's the proprietary plugin that crashes, I blame the proprietary software
[14:00:26] <rayh> Oh. I didn't think about npviewer being proprietary. That would do it.
[14:00:43] <alex_joni> I get the same buggy behaviour on doze too
[14:00:47] <alex_joni> so it's surely not ff related
[14:05:00] <rayh> Ah okay.
[14:06:01] <rayh> Probably written by someone paid under the table by that other software company.
[14:27:07] <alex_joni> bigcx2: I see it worked..
[14:27:35] <bigcx2> bigcx2: why bc i stopped asking questions
[14:27:46] <bigcx2> alex_joni: why bc i stopped asking questions
[14:27:55] <bigcx2> whoops
[14:28:12] <bigcx2> alex_joni: yes that is a good assumption :)
[14:28:21] <bigcx2> alex_joni: thank you
[14:28:32] <bigcx2> i also joined the mailing list, i'll send out an email here shortly
[14:33:24] <jepler> rayh: I don't think npviewer is proroprietary (it's GPL2 or later), but the flash plugin is (and on 64-bit systems with the 32-bit plugin, flash executes in address space of the npviewer program)
[14:34:15] <rayh> Okay.
[14:34:46] <alex_joni> bigcx2: rtai mailing list ;)
[14:35:11] <rayh> It seems to invade all by itself rather than when I want to view something. (Cause I usually don't)
[14:35:28] <bigcx2> ahh lol
[14:35:35] <bigcx2> isn't the internet wonderful
[14:38:02] <jepler> you can use firefox extensions like flashblock or noscript to restrict flash only to places you want to view it (usually by clicking on the rectangle on the page where the plugin goes)
[14:38:22] <jepler> (noscript is a bit of overkill for that, as it breaks all dynamic websites by default)
[14:48:17] <cradek> I like flashblock - 99% of flash stuff is crap
[14:49:37] <eric_unterhausen> I recently discovered there are people that obsess over flashlights
[14:56:16] <cradek> um, I have a flashlight I like
[14:56:24] <cradek> it's in my pocket
[14:56:31] <cradek> is there a 12-step program?
[14:59:04] <archivist> there is and OCD person for every possible item I bet
[15:01:16] <alex_joni> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/05/shouty_sun_engineer/
[15:01:19] <alex_joni> ROFLMAO
[15:03:04] <eric_unterhausen> obvious if you think about it
[15:08:46] <alex_joni> anyways, it seems like a nice way to find out which drive it is :)
[15:09:14] <eric_unterhausen> with as many drives as they had, they would get hoarse
[15:16:03] <bigcx2> haha
[15:20:53] <cradek> did he really mean 500 msec? that seems like an amazingly long time
[15:21:16] <eric_unterhausen> typical disk latency
[15:22:20] <cradek> huh
[15:23:27] <eric_unterhausen> actually, if it weren't for the 500 ms latency windows injects on some disk accesses, you could probably do pretty decent real-time on windows
[15:26:35] <tomp> i love yelling at the drive :)
[15:26:58] <eric_unterhausen> I used to punch my monitor fairly often
[15:27:34] <eric_unterhausen> I gave up when i realized that it didn't matter to the monitor
[15:27:53] <archivist> poor monitor
[15:28:03] <tomp> stupid monitor, doesnt even know its not liked ;)
[15:28:14] <eric_unterhausen> I've heard that is a common failure mode for lcd's
[15:29:00] <archivist> bashing things to test for dry joints yes, but anger no
[15:29:36] <eric_unterhausen> we had a grad student break a laptop screen, he said he fell asleep and hit his head on it
[15:33:01] <eric_unterhausen> having see-through windows is not really that great of an effect
[15:33:39] <alex_joni> see-through desktop
[15:33:54] <eric_unterhausen> what do you see when you see through your desktop?
[15:34:19] <alex_joni> http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/24/the-transparent-desktop-optical-illusion/
[15:34:40] <eric_unterhausen> that's a good idea
[15:34:48] <eric_unterhausen> I forgot about that
[15:34:55] <eric_unterhausen> but it only works from one angle
[15:35:47] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[15:35:57] <alex_joni> unless you have a 3d monitor and a 3d webcam
[15:36:21] <archivist> and radar to detect where you are
[15:36:34] <alex_joni> hah: http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif
[15:36:45] <eric_unterhausen> you just need a webcam on a pan/tilt
[15:36:48] <alex_joni> I meant http://www.flickr.com/photos/w00kie/7350188/in/set-180637/
[15:37:19] <alex_joni> I built this a long time ago: http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/yanor/poze/HPIM0522.JPG
[15:37:41] <eric_unterhausen> nice
[15:38:11] <eric_unterhausen> I assume it was for stereo rangefinding?
[15:54:57] <Guest945> Guest945 is now known as skunkworks_
[17:10:23] <biqut2> my G540 gecko drive is shipping today
[17:11:05] <skunkworks_> biqut2: exciting! :)
[17:11:16] <biqut2> * biqut2 is happy
[17:11:50] <biqut2> yep cant wait, and all of my steppers will be here toaday as well
[17:13:47] <skunkworks_> SWPadnos on here has a working config for the 540 - you should ping him when you get a chance.
[17:13:56] <SWPadnos> too late
[17:14:27] <skunkworks_> heh
[17:15:05] <biqut2> SWPadnos, hello
[17:15:08] <SWPadnos> hi
[17:15:45] <archivist> ping reply before send error
[17:17:40] <biqut2> you have a config for the 540?
[17:18:10] <SWPadnos> yes. I need to check with Mariss on some timing questions, but the config should work
[17:18:37] <alex_joni> hey SWPadnos
[17:18:40] <SWPadnos> I had a problem with the spindle output, but it turned out to be the board
[17:18:43] <SWPadnos> hi alex_joni
[17:18:45] <alex_joni> planning to visit JymmmEMC ?
[17:19:11] <biqut2> great can i get a copy? that will save me alot of time with setup
[17:20:25] <SWPadnos> not sure, and he's a bit north of LA anyway :)
[17:20:59] <SWPadnos> biqut2, yes
[17:21:19] <SWPadnos> it will be good to have a second test of it before it gets checked into EMC2 and put on the Gecko website ;)
[17:22:54] <biqut2> cool, just DCC it to me here or you can email it to biqut2@gmail.com
[17:26:47] <SWPadnos> ok, will do
[17:26:47] <SWPadnos> I may even write some instructions or something :)
[17:28:10] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[18:09:58] <jymm> SWPadnos: If you're gonna hit LA, bring a coat, there has been some weird wx lately down there.
[18:18:32] <archivist> LA and coat... never heard of that
[18:19:51] <alex_joni> archivist: we had -35C not far from here last night
[18:20:15] <archivist> we are supposed to be getting -10
[18:21:18] <alex_joni> only -25F I guess..
[18:32:56] <alex_joni> hmm.. units gives a different result
[18:35:58] <Vq^> we had -19°C here this morning
[18:37:25] <alex_joni> well.. at least it's supposed to be cold in sweden :)
[18:38:46] <Vq^> i guess...
[18:43:55] <micges> here -26C only
[18:59:47] <skunkworks_> LawrenceG: that is the odd issue.. increasing the gate resistance (which should slow things down) cause the effective current limit to be lower.
[19:00:10] <skunkworks_> I am using diodes in parallel with the resistors for fast turn off.
[19:00:50] <skunkworks_> Should be fun to look at it with the scope tonight.. ;)
[19:02:40] <LawrenceG> skunkworks, is there any chance the diodes are in backwards?
[19:02:50] <skunkworks_> I tripple checked them :)
[19:03:36] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schemmore.png
[19:03:51] <LawrenceG> scope should help..... power stages make me crazy..... ground isnt ground... smoke doest stay inside
[19:03:58] <skunkworks_> heh
[19:04:21] <cradek> skunkworks_: where does the tach hook up?
[19:04:33] <skunkworks_> heh - I wish.
[19:04:44] <skunkworks_> actually - maybe not. seems to work great as is..
[19:04:59] <skunkworks_> (one loop)
[19:06:40] <skunkworks_> one loop one kill?
[20:07:23] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[20:20:57] <skunkworks_> cradek: how is the first day at work? ;)
[20:32:56] <alex_joni> good night all
[20:34:57] <skunkworks_> night alex
[21:03:41] <flexmotioncnc> good evening
[21:04:14] <flexmotioncnc> i have one problem with emc2.2.8 is possible help
[21:05:01] <flexmotioncnc> help
[21:05:20] <flexmotioncnc> help
[21:05:27] <flexmotioncnc> i have one problem with emc2.2.8 is possible help
[21:06:26] <cradek> flexmotioncnc: go ahead and ask your question
[21:06:37] <flexmotioncnc> thanks
[21:07:04] <flexmotioncnc> i have install and compile emc2.2.8 on linux debia etch with rai patch
[21:07:14] <flexmotioncnc> i have one problem
[21:07:22] <flexmotioncnc> the proble is :
[21:08:24] <flexmotioncnc> when i start the motion the one axis the position count the axis increment or decrement
[21:09:42] <flexmotioncnc> but sometime the counter position axis stop the counter , but the axis move normaly.After 1 second the conter increas normali for stop after 4 second ec.. what is the problem
[21:09:57] <flexmotioncnc> ?
[21:12:29] <flexmotioncnc> you understand the my problem
[21:13:32] <SWPadnos> no, not really
[21:13:49] <SWPadnos> is this while jogging, using MDI commands, or running an NC program?
[21:13:58] <SWPadnos> are you testing with a bare HAL setup?
[21:14:37] <SWPadnos> are you using G-code that runs multiple axes, but only have one motor hooked up (so this motor stops while others that aren't connected would be in motion)
[21:16:19] <flexmotioncnc> the problem is present in manual, in mdi and auto mode.when i start the emc2 the software the counter position axis is ok for 10 or 15 minuts, after time , the counter posizion stop the increses when i move the axis or single axis.
[21:16:49] <SWPadnos> the counter being the onscreen DRO?
[21:17:14] <flexmotioncnc> yes the position axis on screen
[21:18:25] <SWPadnos> is the GUI responsive in general - does it redraw relatively often, can you resize the AXIS window and have it update quickly?
[21:20:18] <flexmotioncnc> yes the response the gui is normaly, i use the video card integrated on board.is possible the problem is the low performante the video card on board?
[21:21:09] <SWPadnos> well, my line of thought was that the realtime code seems to be working, since the motors keep moving. The GUI is userspace code though, so it could get swapped out to disk, held up by some other program, etc.
[21:24:14] <flexmotioncnc> ok . i change the video card for ceck this problem.The problem is present after i move the window or open the menu ecc...What is the video card on agp is ok for linux debian letch 4.05?
[21:32:33] <cradek> maybe your opengl is broken
[21:33:15] <flexmotioncnc> whith resolve the problem?
[21:35:31] <flexmotioncnc> for resolve this problem i change the card o reinstall opengl library?
[21:35:45] <LawrenceG> cradek, maybe a very long gcode file problem? and axis redraw is slow?
[21:35:51] <cradek> you should test some other opengl applications
[21:36:09] <cradek> if opengl is not working, you will have to troubleshoot; I cannot tell you how to fix it
[21:37:55] <LesNewell> If it is an OpenGl problem then maybe one of the other GUIs might work. For instance neither tkemc or xemc use opengl.
[21:38:30] <cradek> possibly. but it's only a guess. so many things can be wrong with a kernel+rtai+emc build.
[21:38:51] <LesNewell> True but it would rule out AXIS
[21:39:52] <flexmotioncnc> The problem is present in tkemc and xemc and axis inteface
[21:40:25] <LesNewell> ok, so it is probably not a graphics problem then.
[21:43:00] <flexmotioncnc> The test latency rtai is minlat -1200 nsecond and the maxlat 3510 nanosecond.
[21:44:56] <jepler> does the problem occur with any configuration file, or only with a specific configuration file? any messages shown on the terminal where you start emc, or the last 10-20 lines printed by the command "dmesg" after the problem occurs, might provide us helpful information.
[21:46:28] <SWPadnos> ok, the lathe is inside, so it's time for breakfast. bbl
[21:46:34] <jepler> SWPadnos: hooray!
[21:46:38] <cradek> congratulations
[21:47:04] <LesNewell> Worked up an appetite?
[21:47:07] <flexmotioncnc> i have compile rtai kernel with procedure on emc wiki debian rtai install and the compile is ok no error
[21:47:31] <flexmotioncnc> no message in terminal when the problem is on
[21:47:43] <flexmotioncnc> the axis move correctly
[21:51:07] <jepler> does it happen with any configuration file? for instance, if you choose the sample configuration file sim/tkemc.ini, does it happen?
[21:51:38] <flexmotioncnc> i use the mesa 5i20 card , tomorro i see in simulation mode
[21:53:32] <jepler> the position feedback shown on the screen has to travel like this: realtime => task => user interface
[21:54:34] <jepler> if the problem occurs in all configuration files, then you need to see if you can figure out where the position feedback is getting lost, for instance by attaching to milltask with a debugger or adding debugging print statements to it.
[21:56:53] <jepler> the function that copies data from realtime to task is src/emc/motion/usrmotintf.cc:usrmotReadEmcmotStatus.
[21:57:59] <jepler> the function in task that prepares the data to be seen by the user interface is src/emc/task/taskintf.cc:emcTrajUpdate
[22:00:34] <flexmotioncnc> ok , i thing the code is ok and the compile not return the error in fuction.not is the software problem i thing the problem is hardare
[22:01:43] <jepler> that's what trying sim/tkemc.ini will help you determine. If it happens there, the problem is software (because your 5i20 card, motors and encoders aren't used at all). otherwise, it indicates that there's a problem with your configuration file or with your hardware.
[22:03:10] <flexmotioncnc> ok thenks i see the problem and tommorro i speack for you in irc.Thanks for all
[22:04:47] <jepler> come back soon
[22:16:19] <flexmotioncnc> jepler you see me
[22:16:50] <flexmotioncnc> my site is www.flexmotioncnc.com
[22:20:10] <maddash> rofl nice animation
[22:36:37] <jack_> weweeeee
[23:58:52] <eric_unterhausen> OT: my screensaver doesn't turn off the monitor over HDMI