#emc | Logs for 2009-01-03

[00:08:26] <skunkworksemc> this motor sounded like it had a bad bearing.. But it was noise getting into the encoder.. :)
[00:49:11] <eric_u> skunkworksemc: encoder noise making audible noise is kinda cool in a "don't do that anymore" sorta way
[00:50:38] <skunkworks> yep
[00:51:41] <eric_u> sorta like the time the brushless servo smashed my finger, I was jumping up and down in pain saying "interesting, I didn't know brushless motors would work like that"
[00:59:42] <eric_u> I just realized I should make a backup: http://journalspace.com/this_is_the_way_the_world_ends/not_with_a_bang_but_a_whimper.html
[01:37:46] <topls64> I am adding my latency results to the wiki. What should I put under "summary"?
[01:38:06] <eric_u> did you make it better?
[01:38:34] <eric_u> if so, you might note what changes seemed to have helped
[01:38:47] <topls64> first entry
[01:39:23] <topls64> Where does the 'summary' text appear on page i guess is the question
[01:42:44] <eric_u> sorry I can't help, I've never really felt confident enough in my latency measurements to put my hardware on that page
[01:53:04] <topls64> Just did. Easy. They keep telling me to post, so there it is. I don't think the values of the data are as important as getting the data in to have a sample set
[01:54:55] <eric_u> where is it? don't see that anything changed
[01:55:53] <eric_u> I ran the latency tests last night on my new computer, it was pretty good, >8 microseconds no matter what I did
[01:57:14] <eric_u> turns out the worst thing was running open office off of the cd
[01:57:31] <cradek> replying to the distant past: for drills, on my mill, I set the tool change location right next to the work. I have the program go to the safety height and pause after a tool change. I set a dowel pin on the work, sticking out to under the drill, and move the knee so they touch, then continue
[01:58:03] <cradek> it is very fast (probably faster than jogging) once you get the process down. also, limited quill length is never a problem
[01:58:32] <eric_u> that's one way to do it, I should fix the air assist on my knee so it doesn't take 2 men and a boy to raise the table
[01:58:46] <cradek> ha
[01:59:07] <cradek> you do need a strong left arm
[01:59:36] <eric_u> especially when your knee weighs 1000+ pounds
[02:00:37] <cradek> no idea what mine weighs, but going down is easier than up
[02:00:42] <eric_u> topls64: I see it now
[02:00:56] <cradek> air assist would be neat - I wonder what it would take to set up.
[02:01:06] <eric_u> lots of people use an air spring
[02:01:16] <eric_u> a couple of bolts is it
[02:01:24] <topls64> What is 'ovl max' about line 8
[02:01:31] <eric_u> overall max?
[02:01:52] <topls64> that is not a result from the latency test?
[02:02:33] <eric_u> maybe it's from the RTAI latency test
[02:02:38] <topls64> Perhaps that line needs to be updated to xxxx max jitter>
[02:07:47] <eric_u> topls64: I had a batch of systems just like yours at work.
[02:08:43] <topls64> eric_u: i had a lot of fun building it. Originally for video editing
[02:09:33] <eric_u> how much ram do you have in yours?
[02:09:54] <topls64> 512, 2 256 sticks
[02:10:14] <topls64> ovl_max comes from the text based latency test
[02:10:20] <topls64> in hal
[03:54:16] <renesis> ha this must be totally annoying
[04:03:10] <topls64> here i am! there i go!
[04:03:55] <renesis> wat
[04:06:35] <topls64> peoples connections kept coming and going is all
[05:00:20] <KimK> I thought I saw something (wiki? manuals?) about declaring general-purpose I/O (I think in HAL, for the benefit of ClassicLadder?). I'd like to read it, but now I can't find it. Does that subject ring any bells with anyone?
[05:01:09] <SWPadnos> not me
[05:02:35] <KimK> OK, thanks. I'll keep searching.
[05:02:49] <cradek> what do you mean declaring?
[05:04:35] <SWPadnos> yeah, that's the part that didn't ring a bell
[05:05:01] <KimK> I'm not sure, I stumbled across it at the time, I was reading about something else, thought I'd read it later. I thought it was a list of available I/O bits so that CL could use them more easily, maybe? I'm not sure.
[05:05:55] <KimK> I should have bookmarked it, i didn't think it would be so elusive.
[05:06:20] <cradek> you just hook signals to classicladder's pins like any other component
[05:06:42] <cradek> inside CL, you can see the signal name, which really helps
[05:07:51] <jtr> I remember seeing that. it defined how many physical I/O pins were avilable to CL
[05:08:10] <SWPadnos> there are load-time parameters for that
[05:08:11] <KimK> I'd like to know more about seeing things inside CL, is that what the two blank areas in the title bar are for? And can we have comments there?
[05:08:32] <SWPadnos> uh. you should be able to see an animated ladder running
[05:08:36] <cradek> are you running 2.2 or trunk?
[05:08:37] <KimK> maybe just below the title bar, I'd have to pull it up
[05:08:42] <KimK> 2.2.8
[05:09:13] <cradek> if you turn on that checkbox in the upper right, the %I0 will change to >Sig for an output pin connected to Sig, or Sig> for input
[05:10:39] <KimK> OK, I'll check it. So far all I've seen there is %Q2 and the like, maybe I missed it
[05:11:04] <jtr> I bet that was in the stepconf screen cmorley was working on.
[05:11:15] <cradek> %Q2 is an output pin
[05:11:24] <cradek> if you hook it to a signal, you can see the signal name in ladder
[05:12:05] <KimK> But how do I tell CL what the output pin is? (with my hdwe, I mean)
[05:12:53] <jtr> "that" being declaring general purpose I/O
[05:13:00] <cradek> sorry, I guess I don't understand
[05:13:15] <cradek> classicladder has outputs/inputs like any other component - you can hook them to whatever you want
[05:13:50] <SWPadnos> except for modbus, which has a CL-integrated driver
[05:14:29] <SWPadnos> KimK, if you look at the output of "halcmd show pin", you'll see a lot of classicladder pins
[05:15:07] <KimK> I mean, if %Q2 is an output (to the real world?) how I know what it is? Pin what on which card? I have 24 bits of opto22 (undefined) and 24 bits of mesa (16 in 8 out)
[05:15:25] <SWPadnos> pin on the classicladder HAL component
[05:15:42] <SWPadnos> you need to connect that (with a HAL signal) to some hardware driver pin
[05:15:48] <SWPadnos> to get anything out to the real world
[05:16:21] <KimK> And I have to enter that list of bits, or is it already in there somewhere?
[05:16:31] <KimK> bits = real world bits
[05:16:50] <SWPadnos> have you run through the HAL tutorial (or something like it)?
[05:17:06] <SWPadnos> classicladder is no different from "and2", except that it's more complex
[05:17:40] <SWPadnos> you still have to add functions to HAL threads and connect the CL HAL pins to other things to do anything useful
[05:18:10] <KimK> CL is generating HAL commands?
[05:18:49] <SWPadnos> no
[05:18:52] <cradek> CL is a graphically-configurable logic and/or sequencing component
[05:19:05] <SWPadnos> what do you know about how HAL is configured and used?
[05:19:25] <cradek> you could write "and2" in ladder, or just about anything else
[05:20:15] <cradek> --|%I1|--|%I2|--------(%Q1)-- does exactly "and2"
[05:21:54] <KimK> But the connection from %Q1 (above) to some hardware bit is done in HAL?
[05:22:02] <cradek> yes
[05:22:35] <cradek> net my-and2-output classicladder.0.out-01 mesa-card.0.whatever-pin
[05:23:17] <KimK> OK. So "listing" (declaring?) the available bits (and their connections to CL) is not an unreasonable thing to do, yes?
[05:24:35] <cradek> KimK: I think SWPadnos and I don't know whether you are asking a specific question about ladder or if you don't understand the HAL paradigm at all yet
[05:24:56] <SWPadnos> but in a nice way :)
[05:26:16] <cradek> sorry
[05:26:52] <SWPadnos> nothing intended there - you're fine (IMO)
[05:26:54] <cradek> ladder is definitely an oddball kind of component, compared to and2
[05:27:05] <KimK> I think I understand HAL, but some of the things which I would have expected to be in CL seem to be still in HAL. I just have to find out where everything is. No problem, just a slow (thoughtful?) typist.
[05:27:44] <cradek> ladder isn't a replacement for anything in hal, but it is another way to do some things
[05:28:21] <cradek> I showed and2 above - for that it's stupid - but when you expand into more complex logic, ladder is the easier way
[05:28:33] <cradek> especially state machines
[05:28:48] <cradek> (for a tool change, do this, then this, then this, then if it all worked out, signal it's done)
[05:29:11] <KimK> OK. I'll keep that in mind and continue to play with it. Nothing dangerous is hooked up, so playing is fine.
[05:29:14] <cradek> making that out of and gates and muxes is hell
[05:29:53] <KimK> Are comments coming to CL anytime soon?
[05:30:17] <cradek> there is a bit of comment facility in the variables window
[05:30:59] <cradek> like for the internal variables (is it %B?)
[05:31:11] <KimK> And I wondered if those holes in the title bar were to show the "section" labels? And something else? (there are two openings, large and small)
[05:31:37] <cradek> yeah I think you can name sections, and they go there, I'm not sure what the other one does
[05:31:41] <KimK> I haven't seen anything in them yet, maybe I haven't used them fully?
[05:31:59] <KimK> I named a section or two, nothing in the bar
[05:32:05] <cradek> hmm
[05:32:15] <KimK> maybe 2.3?
[05:32:34] <cradek> I have been using trunk for so long, I lose track
[05:33:21] <KimK> Maybe I'm not doing something right or completely, don't worry about it now, I might figure something out later?
[05:33:48] <cradek> :-)
[05:34:34] <KimK> I did download CVS while I had cablemodem, might have to update it there too. But I don't know enough about it to try trunk.
[05:35:03] <KimK> (had cablemodem while cat-sitting)
[05:35:13] <cradek> bonus!
[05:35:25] <KimK> heh
[05:35:43] <cradek> updates over dialup should be easy enough, but the initial checkout would hurt I bet
[05:35:58] <cradek> it's several megabytes by now I think
[05:37:06] <KimK> Yes, cat's owners have returned, and I'm back home to dialup. Let me see if the CVS wiki covers anything about after downloading?
[05:41:09] <KimK> OK, objection. Now that I have enrolled and can fix the wiki, and have done so a couple of times already, would one of you like to suggest and alternate title for Chapter 2, because ".cvsrc" does not do it for me. I have no clue what .cvsrc is. Nor will any other reader new to CVS, I believe.
[05:41:24] <KimK> and = an
[05:41:43] <KimK> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CVS
[05:42:29] <cradek> .cvsrc is a place you put your personal preferences (command line switches) to make cvs commands easier to use/remember
[05:42:37] <SWPadnos> "CVS settings file"
[05:42:44] <cradek> ah, there you go
[05:43:10] <KimK> CVS personal settings file?
[05:43:29] <SWPadnos> that's getting personal
[05:43:48] <cradek> personally I'd say that either would be fine
[05:43:49] <SWPadnos> (it's likely that many novice users don't really understand that they can have settings different from other users)
[05:43:50] <jtr> Settin your CVS Preferences?
[05:43:57] <jtr> +g
[05:44:01] <SWPadnos> phew
[05:44:11] <SWPadnos> I thought you were gettin all southern on us
[05:44:57] <jtr> from down here in NC? aint never gonna happen...
[05:45:17] <SWPadnos> I was boahn in NC
[05:46:37] <jtr> me too, but I've lived other places.
[05:46:41] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:46:44] <SWPadnos> me too :)
[05:48:42] <KimK> OK, fixed it. "Setting Your CVS preferences with the .cvsrc file"
[05:49:42] <cradek> much better
[05:49:59] <KimK> * KimK resumes reading about how to use CVS
[05:50:24] <KimK> But shout out good suggestions, if you have them!
[05:50:31] <cradek> old unix users automatically recognize a file starting with . ending with rc as a place to put your preferences for some program. those docs were written by one such person I bet
[05:57:31] <KimK> In case anyone heads for bed, thanks once again for your help, gents.
[11:19:12] <Genesis> hi
[11:34:48] <micges> hi
[12:30:46] <BigJohnT_> BigJohnT_ is now known as BigJohnT
[15:20:24] <BigJohnT_> BigJohnT_ is now known as BigJohnT
[16:00:14] <alex_jon1> alex_jon1 is now known as alex_joni
[16:11:47] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=546645#post546645
[16:13:12] <alex_joni> parameter or pin 'stepgen.4.position-scale' not found
[16:13:44] <alex_joni> he needs to number AXIS_0, AXIS_1, AXIS_2 and AXIS_3
[16:14:14] <alex_joni> and loadrt stepgen step_type=0,0,0,0 -> causes stepgend 0,1,2,3 to appear
[16:17:14] <alex_joni> skunkworks: did I make sense to you?
[16:20:56] <skunkworks> yes - I will try to explain it..
[16:20:57] <skunkworks> :)
[16:22:35] <JanVanGilsen> http://imagebin.org/34929 --> I'm quite happy with the result
[16:23:04] <jmkasunich> before and after - nice
[16:23:50] <jmkasunich> do you have a patch you'd like to submit? or are you still tweaking
[16:23:53] <JanVanGilsen> I think i rewrote the whole widget =)
[16:24:50] <jmkasunich> its still a patch
[16:25:12] <jmkasunich> $ cvs diff -u >meter.patch
[16:25:14] <JanVanGilsen> yes, its ready afaics
[16:26:53] <BigJohnT> JanVanGilsen: Sweet!
[16:31:17] <cradek> wow, the "before" of Joint1 is quite the thing
[16:31:44] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br5i7TuPhsU&feature=related ROFL
[16:32:19] <skunkworks> jmkasunich: driver common and logic common being separate doesn't work. It skews the current limit (not symetrical) (must screw up the logic to the drivers) - (don't have a scope here yet)
[16:33:25] <jmkasunich> I'd have to study the schematic to understand
[16:34:44] <JymmmEMC> JanVanGilsen: Now to make the bkground blink when a hi/lo limit has been reached =)
[16:36:11] <jmkasunich> or not
[16:36:18] <skunkworks> heh
[16:37:17] <JanVanGilsen> or make it move to the exact value when you tap your screen =)
[16:37:26] <JymmmEMC> LOL
[16:37:44] <JymmmEMC> China Syndrom
[16:37:56] <jmkasunich> ?
[16:38:01] <JanVanGilsen> http://pastebin.ca/1299027
[16:38:48] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich China Snydrome was a movie about a nuclear power plant and one of the meters was faulty, and when tapped gave the correct reading.
[16:38:52] <jmkasunich> does the new meter work if you give it an old config file
[16:39:18] <jmkasunich> JymmmEMC: lots of meters (and more commonly guages, like pressure guages) do that
[16:39:42] <jmkasunich> the tapping overcomes stiction and lets the needle settle at the right reading
[16:39:58] <JanVanGilsen> i think so, some of the new features won't be displayed
[16:40:08] <jmkasunich> thats OK
[16:40:45] <jmkasunich> we need to specifically call out any changes that will break an old config, so people know what they need to fix when the upgrade
[16:41:07] <jmkasunich> what is line 15/16 of the patch about?
[16:41:37] <JanVanGilsen> oh that would be a copy/paste acident
[16:41:49] <jmkasunich> thats why I review patches ;-)
[16:41:53] <JanVanGilsen> thx
[16:42:11] <jmkasunich> even when I'm doing an commit of my own stuff, I do a cvs diff -u and read it thru
[16:42:28] <jmkasunich> sometimes I have unrelated changes, or debugging printfs, or whatever, that I've forgotten
[16:43:25] <jmkasunich> please post a fresh patch once you fix that accident
[16:47:53] <JanVanGilsen> http://pastebin.ca/1299036
[16:51:07] <jmkasunich> hmm
[16:51:20] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich@mahan:~/emcdev/emc2head/lib/python$ patch pyvcp_widgets.py 1299036.patch
[16:51:20] <jmkasunich> (Stripping trailing CRs from patch.)
[16:51:20] <jmkasunich> patching file pyvcp_widgets.py
[16:51:20] <jmkasunich> patch unexpectedly ends in middle of line
[16:51:47] <jmkasunich> can you email me the patch file? jmkasunich at fastmail dot fm
[16:53:13] <tomp> JanVanGilsen: nice meters, a hi/low limit alarm might be a trigger to something else, another widget, a sound, an alarm message ( or animate it on fire :)
[16:53:40] <jmkasunich> we have comparator components and LED widgets
[16:53:48] <tomp> right
[16:53:53] <jmkasunich> instead of overloading the meter widget, build over/under limits separately
[16:54:47] <tomp> oh, cath it upstream ?
[16:55:52] <JanVanGilsen> jmkasunich: you've got mail
[16:56:02] <jmkasunich> so I do, thanks
[16:57:40] <jmkasunich> applied with no problems, committing now
[16:59:39] <JanVanGilsen> It wouldn't be hard to add an overload pin to the meter component...
[16:59:40] <jmkasunich> done - thanks JanVanGilsen
[17:01:01] <tomp> jmkasunich suggested doing it outside the component ( old unix tradition of simple tools joined into complex systems ) ( very hal like )
[17:02:59] <JanVanGilsen> Next thing would be rewriting the manual...
[17:03:35] <tomp> is the docs in the widget code ( self documenting? )
[17:04:18] <JanVanGilsen> no, there are comments that indecate witch xml-tags to use
[17:04:58] <tomp> ah, its been a few years, hope people like the widgets, i like analog dispalys for lots of stuff
[17:05:03] <jmkasunich> I think the pyvcp portion of the manual usually has a screenshot and then the matching XML
[17:05:37] <JanVanGilsen> I'll pastebin the battery example
[17:11:06] <tomp> good nite
[17:11:53] <JanVanGilsen> http://pastebin.ca/1299056
[17:14:55] <JanVanGilsen> the regions arn't in order, but that shows that they don't need to be =)
[17:15:11] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[17:20:03] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3zB1ZJv8cM
[17:22:04] <jmkasunich> I must be rusty on pyvcp
[17:22:30] <jmkasunich> I had to add <pyvcp> and </pyvcp> at the beginning and end of the file
[17:22:35] <jmkasunich> but I still get this error:
[17:22:46] <jmkasunich> halcmd: loadusr pyvcp meter.xml
[17:22:46] <jmkasunich> halcmd: Error evaluating xml file:
[17:22:46] <jmkasunich> Widget meter, Property halpin
[17:22:46] <jmkasunich> NameError: name 'mymeter' is not defined
[17:23:32] <jmkasunich> (I removed the dash from "my-meter" - with the dash in there, the error was "name 'my" is not defined'
[17:29:22] <jmkasunich> ah, much better
[17:29:39] <jmkasunich> I lost the quotes around "my-meter" (and in other places) when I grabbed it off the pastebin
[17:32:28] <jepler> yes, adding quotes to "my-meter" fixes it for me too
[17:32:32] <jepler> (I don't see those quotes in the pastebin)
[17:34:26] <jmkasunich> crap - the manual has a french meter screenshot too.....
[17:35:52] <BigJohnT> what manual?
[17:36:07] <jmkasunich> hal manual I think?
[17:36:14] <jmkasunich> I'm looking in docs/src/hal
[17:36:31] <jmkasunich> there is pyvcp_meter.png, and pyvcp_meter_fr.png
[17:36:48] <jmkasunich> I haven't gotten as far as lyx to see if how they are used
[17:37:06] <BigJohnT> don't think the french one is in the english manual
[17:37:21] <jmkasunich> prob'ly not
[17:37:51] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html//hal_pyvcp_fr.html#r1_5_7
[17:37:55] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html//hal_pyvcp.html#r1_5_7
[17:37:55] <jmkasunich> I wonder who made the french screenshots? the translator?
[17:38:01] <alex_joni> yup, tissf
[17:38:12] <BigJohnT> tissif I bet
[17:38:23] <jmkasunich> ok, I'll just update the english version
[17:38:52] <BigJohnT> tissif usually updates the french ones
[17:39:22] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: no second i
[17:40:09] <BigJohnT> oh yes I see I gave him a new name
[17:44:20] <jmkasunich> manual updated
[17:47:42] <BigJohnT> that's a switch your writing the manual and I'm writing code :)
[17:50:45] <jmkasunich> heh
[17:54:14] <BigJohnT> now to figure out why motion.spindle-at-speed does not stop motion when false after a spindle start
[17:54:44] <jmkasunich> there are only certain times when it is checked
[17:54:57] <BigJohnT> I do a S1730 M3
[17:54:58] <jmkasunich> like at a G0 to G1 transition (but not in the middle of a bunch of G1's)
[17:55:10] <BigJohnT> hmmm
[17:59:06] <BigJohnT> the first line is S1730 M3 then the second line is G1...
[18:14:52] <SWPadnos> if you want motion to be halted until the spindle is at speed, you need to hook it to motion.feedhold
[18:14:55] <SWPadnos> but that's probably not a good idea
[18:16:35] <eric_u> SWPadnos, my new computer you made me buy has latency <8 microseconds
[18:16:50] <SWPadnos> darn
[18:17:10] <eric_u> I know, it costs about 3-5 times as much as the goal
[18:18:27] <SWPadnos> oh, what did you get>
[18:18:27] <eric_u> nice to see that the AMD 790 chipset doesn't seem to have latency problems I didn't run it all day though
[18:18:29] <SWPadnos> ?
[18:20:31] <eric_u> the asrock http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157141
[18:21:28] <jmkasunich> thats just a mobo, right? not a bundle?
[18:21:29] <eric_u> seems that it's hard to get a decent power supply for that board for much less than $100
[18:22:12] <eric_u> jmkasunich: I built up a system. Mobo, processor, ram and power supply cost me about $300
[18:22:27] <jmkasunich> heh
[18:22:49] <jmkasunich> that other one was interesting because it looked like I'd have something working for under $100
[18:23:07] <eric_u> yeah, I know
[18:23:25] <eric_u> and it also gets better latency for some reason
[18:23:34] <jmkasunich> when you say "hard to get a power supply for that board", which board do you mean?
[18:23:39] <eric_u> mine
[18:23:44] <jmkasunich> the cheap one or the one you got?
[18:23:53] <eric_u> it's not hard, just expensive
[18:24:10] <jmkasunich> what is it about that board that makes it need an expensive supply?
[18:24:19] <eric_u> extra 12v requirements
[18:24:45] <SWPadnos> expensive meaning "more than $30" or expensive meaning "more than $130"?
[18:24:50] <eric_u> of course, that's mostly just reading between the lines
[18:25:10] <eric_u> I ended up getting one that's about $70
[18:25:23] <eric_u> not sure I made the best choice
[18:26:31] <eric_u> there are some sites that test power supplies, and it's clear there is a big difference between power supplies
[18:26:38] <eric_u> the ones they like all cost over $100
[18:27:05] <SWPadnos> PC Power & Cooling
[18:27:24] <eric_u> those are now OCZ
[18:27:33] <SWPadnos> oh right. weird
[18:27:59] <eric_u> they don't get reviewed because they don't give out review parts
[18:31:13] <eric_u> newer mobos have 8 pin connectors for 12v in addition to the 20+4 pin for the mobo. I've had mobo connectors smoke due to high current, I wouldn't skimp there
[18:32:41] <SWPadnos> there are 8 and 4 pin 12V connectors as well, though some motherboards just use a hard drive connector instead
[18:34:44] <skunkworks> crap - higer voltages still take out the driver ic - seems to be a current limit issue.. wish I had a scope here. Oh well - this week.
[18:35:10] <eric_u> how do they take it out?
[18:35:23] <eric_u> does it die when you apply power?
[18:35:35] <skunkworks> no - it is when I push it to current limit.
[18:35:55] <eric_u> what supply voltage?
[18:35:56] <skunkworks> (grab the shaft and make it go into current limit
[18:35:58] <skunkworks> )
[18:36:02] <skunkworks> 78v
[18:36:13] <eric_u> that's pretty low
[18:36:15] <skunkworks> yes
[18:36:22] <skunkworks> I need a scope
[18:36:33] <skunkworks> something stupid I bet.
[18:36:46] <eric_u> I was reworking your circuit for 3 phase, I'll have to take a look at the data sheets now :)
[18:36:53] <skunkworks> heh
[18:37:29] <eric_u> up until now I've been using the IRAMS integrated driver/power device units. They are dead simple
[18:38:07] <eric_u> they actually would work for your application, use 3 and you have 3 axis
[18:38:11] <skunkworks> thru the app notes - there don't seem to be much that takes the ic out..
[18:38:27] <skunkworks> I must be good.
[18:39:39] <skunkworks> supply voltage above max and vsense voltage below -5v.
[18:39:44] <skunkworks> are the biggies.
[18:40:08] <eric_u> you aren't enforcing those voltages
[18:40:49] <skunkworks> usually related to dv/dt
[18:41:54] <skunkworks> http://www.irf.com/technical-info/appnotes/an-978.pdf
[18:42:38] <skunkworks> it is funny - when it fails - that direction gets mushy.
[18:42:57] <skunkworks> you can turn the shaft a ways before there is any real pushback
[18:43:59] <eric_u> actually, for my purposes that's really a good design
[18:44:29] <skunkworks> if you see anything stupid.. :)
[18:44:34] <eric_u> on second thought, it doesn't hurt the power devices?
[18:44:38] <jepler> eric_u: according to the manual for that motherboard, it should be compatible with an ATX power supply that has a 20-pin and a 4-pin connector (page 38 of english user manual from http://www.asrock.com/mb/manual.asp?Model=AOD790GX/128M&s=n )
[18:44:45] <jepler> I think that's not a particularly exotic power supply
[18:44:51] <skunkworks> nope. I don't think I have ever taken one out yet
[18:45:05] <eric_u> jepler: I don't think it will even run that way
[18:45:22] <skunkworks> but the ones I am using are 500v 44a. I think there would have to be a big failure for that to happen.
[18:45:37] <jepler> obviously, I haven't tested it myself -- but the manual clearly represents that it will.
[18:46:06] <eric_u> there is an 8 pin connector over by the cpu power supply, the 20+4 is remote
[18:46:44] <jepler> you plug the 20-pin connector into the 24 socket and a 4-pin 12V connector into the 8-pin socket
[18:47:14] <SWPadnos> the supply type is "ATX+12V"
[18:47:37] <SWPadnos> those have a 4 and/or 8 pin auxiliary 12V connector in addition to the standard ATX connector
[18:48:20] <SWPadnos> eric_u, 8000 is better than the goal3, byt a factor of about 2
[18:48:24] <SWPadnos> -t
[18:48:42] <eric_u> It's possible that it will run like that, but it has a 24pin socket and a separate 8 pin socket
[18:49:00] <eric_u> skunkworks has posted better numbers than that
[18:49:49] <SWPadnos> I think his numbers were 6k or so at first, but up to 13k or so after a while
[18:49:58] <eric_u> I tend to go conservative on power supplies, but not as bad as the fanatics have gone
[18:49:58] <SWPadnos> which is the same as I gor
[18:49:59] <SWPadnos> t
[18:50:17] <SWPadnos> SWMBO calls
[18:50:20] <SWPadnos> bbl
[18:50:20] <eric_u> what did you do that forced it up? I was too lazy to find any mp3s
[18:50:43] <eric_u> open office drove the numbers up a microsecond or 2
[18:51:30] <eric_u> I also opened about 50 firefox windows with no network connection because I know that kills windows
[18:58:31] <skunkworks> I don't know what I did to get 13000... I have not seen it again.. I thought it was because I ran emc2 first but I have since found that not to be true.
[18:59:00] <skunkworks> It stays inch up to 8000 at the most.
[18:59:34] <eric_u> we need a script that plays movies and mp3s and opens openoffice
[19:00:18] <skunkworks> wow - must have changed thoughts mid sentence
[19:28:24] <KimK_> KimK_ is now known as KimK
[19:54:04] <davidma_> davidma_ is now known as davidma
[20:04:43] <davidma> davidma is now known as davidma_
[20:19:29] <skunkworks> hmm - why would increasing the gate resistance cause the current limit trip to go down?
[20:19:46] <skunkworks> * skunkworks should stop randomly changing things before he gets yelled at by jmkasunich
[20:20:06] <skunkworks> the current limit trips at 1/10 what it should.
[20:20:08] <archivist> * archivist yells in leu of jmk
[20:20:19] <eric_u> * eric_u yelling here too
[20:20:34] <skunkworks> * skunkworks needs to steal a scope from work.
[20:20:43] <skunkworks> Going to get messy here though'
[20:20:54] <eric_u> * eric_u thinks you need to be carful
[20:21:00] <eric_u> +e
[20:21:23] <archivist> storage scope + ebay
[20:21:44] <eric_u> I have a nice scope, I need some probes though
[20:22:28] <archivist> I just scored on fleabay got an 8 chan digital HP
[20:22:40] <eric_u> never seen that many channels
[20:22:56] <eric_u> high end scopes go obsolete extremely quickly
[20:23:32] <archivist> its designe a a logic analyzer system with plug-ins, just this only has scope plug-ins
[20:24:01] <eric_u> I see
[20:24:09] <archivist> yup hence I got this oldy for £42
[20:24:19] <eric_u> I have some logic analyzer plug-ins, but no mainframe
[20:25:46] <archivist> Im waiting for another on fleabay to get the rest
[20:45:20] <alex_joni> btw fleabay, heard of swoopo?
[20:45:28] <alex_joni> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/02/swoopo_startrup/
[20:48:01] <eric_u> the swoopo provides all the items though, correct?
[20:48:12] <eric_u> not likely to see any scopes on there soon
[20:48:33] <archivist> ew that is nasty, similar to the phone in scams on TV
[20:48:53] <alex_joni> archivist: why nasty?
[20:49:07] <alex_joni> eric_u: I think they provide only new items..
[20:49:38] <archivist> nasty because of the margins
[20:51:42] <alex_joni> well.. it bites that you need to pay if you don't win :D
[20:52:42] <archivist> exactly its a scam
[20:52:47] <davidma> hi. is anyone here on ubuntu 8.10?
[20:52:59] <eric_u> not for emc
[20:53:27] <eric_u> have you tried it?
[20:53:36] <davidma> eric_u: i see there are no pkgs yet,so that means i'd have to build myself.
[20:53:52] <eric_u> yes, 8.04 is going to be supported longer
[20:54:00] <eric_u> an extra year
[20:54:01] <davidma> i'm on ubuntu 8.10 now because I couldn't install from the live CD (no CD on this machine). I booted from a usb flash drive and could not get the installer to work.
[20:54:18] <davidma> so I used 8.10 alternate install, booted off the flash drive, and net installed the rest.
[20:54:30] <davidma> i wonder if the 8.04 pkgs would work on 8.10
[20:54:34] <eric_u> there is no 8.04 alternate?
[20:54:42] <davidma> i guess i could have done that!
[20:54:47] <archivist> you need the realtime kernel
[20:54:56] <davidma> i gave up on the emc2 live CD and went straight to 8.10 alternate.
[20:55:21] <eric_u> it's going to be a problem
[20:55:30] <davidma> lots of work?
[20:55:50] <eric_u> yes, and a lot of READMEs to go through
[20:56:09] <alex_joni> if you want to compile & patch a RT kernel by yourself
[20:56:26] <alex_joni> only "maybe" the emc2 stuff will work on 8.10, but I wouldn't recommend that
[20:56:41] <alex_joni> the best thing to do is start with the 8.04 alternate
[20:56:44] <alex_joni> and go from there
[20:56:55] <alex_joni> or borrow an USB CD drive
[20:57:14] <alex_joni> (if you can boot from flash then most likely you can boot from an external CD drive aswell)
[20:58:11] <alex_joni> one of these will probably do the trick: http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-to-IDE-SATA-Converter-Adapter-Hard-Drive-DVD-Laptop_W0QQitemZ260340334013QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item260340334013&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1234|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50
[21:00:17] <davidma> cool.
[21:00:49] <davidma> hey check out the PC I'm using. I had to 'mod' it a little bit. http://www.eskimo.com/~davidma/pundit/
[21:01:33] <davidma> this will be my new EMC box.
[21:01:35] <renesis> heh
[21:03:25] <davidma> it's battle hardened and ready to cut metal.
[21:04:21] <alex_joni> who can guess the square root of 12345678987654321 (without an calculator ;)
[21:05:18] <fragalot> http://i39.tinypic.com/14o51y0.jpg engineering questions that matter.
[21:05:18] <fragalot> lol
[21:06:51] <alex_joni> fragalot: wd40 is just fine :)
[21:07:49] <renesis> get some 3 in 1 yo
[21:07:56] <renesis> wd40 is like the antilube
[21:08:23] <archivist> dont ever use 3 in 1 on a clock
[21:08:54] <renesis> clocks are digital they dont have moving parts
[21:08:54] <renesis> you have some sort of ancient mechanical clock or something?
[21:08:54] <archivist> only use a non drying oil
[21:09:09] <davidma> how about sewing machine oil
[21:09:17] <archivist> mechanical clocks is my day job
[21:10:24] <alex_joni> archivist: my grandma has a pendulum that keeps stopping
[21:10:59] <alex_joni> any ideas what I could check ?
[21:11:12] <alex_joni> like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pendeluhr-01.jpg
[21:11:58] <davidma> alex_joni: i like that $5 sata to usb converter. i should get one.
[21:13:15] <archivist> alex_joni, no 1 is it "in beat" regular tick not short tick long tick adjust vertical till regular (or use adjuster if fitted)
[21:13:34] <alex_joni> it has some adjusters, but I think it's level
[21:13:36] <davidma> of course I am getting to the point I am sick of burning CDs. I should get a more modern motherboard or a network card with bios that can PXE boot.
[21:14:04] <alex_joni> when idle it points exactly to the middle of the amplitude adjuster?
[21:14:15] <fragalot> alex_joni: :D
[21:14:44] <alex_joni> so.. no guesses on sqrt(12345678987654321) ?
[21:14:45] <fragalot> renesis: my wristwatch is a mechanical one..
[21:14:46] <archivist> else old oil gone dry, else worns and needs re bushing and escapement resetting (new hard surface)
[21:15:03] <renesis> fragalot: weird @ wristwatch
[21:15:04] <archivist> 42
[21:15:10] <fragalot> alex_joni: 111111111
[21:15:15] <alex_joni> archivist: a bit bigger than that :)
[21:15:20] <archivist> :)
[21:15:29] <alex_joni> fragalot cheated :)
[21:15:34] <fragalot> alex_joni: :D
[21:16:55] <alex_joni> although it's fairly obvious (11x11=121, 111x111=12321, etc)
[21:25:21] <KimK> Is it possible to download the 8.04 EMC iso image on a flash drive, mount it, and install from that? The wiki only has a section on actually installing to Compact Flash: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Install_To_CompactFlash
[21:27:48] <cradek> KimK: I doubt it, since it would not be bootable
[21:28:14] <cradek> but, I don't know anything about booting from usb. none of my hardware is new enough to even do that.
[21:29:16] <archivist> My laptop can boot from USB but I have no idea if the ISO can on a CF drive
[21:31:52] <KimK> The wiki has a section on how someone installed EMC2 to Puppy Linux, maybe that will help you? The wiki also has http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2 with a section on installing EMC2 from a from a script, but I think there are issues (ask someone else) and so the EMC2 CD install is recommended, I believe.
[21:34:23] <jepler> KimK: any ubuntu advice on installing from flash media should apply equally to the linuxcnc.org iso, except that some specific strings will be different (such as the exact kernel version, if you have to refer to it)
[21:35:52] <KimK> OK, davidma, there you go. Thanks, jepler, archivist, cradek
[21:39:57] <JanVanGilsen> i'm working on a graph widget, wath I got looks prommising so far ...
[21:41:37] <KimK> davidma: Now all you need is a 1GB or larger flash drive and Google: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Ubuntu+%2BInstalling+from+a+flash+drive+iso+image&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=
[21:43:18] <KimK> JanVanGilsen: What does it do?
[21:46:50] <JanVanGilsen> plots a time graph of a hal float something like halscope, but not realtime
[21:55:50] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:56:28] <KimK> good night
[21:56:49] <micges> good night
[22:05:20] <davidma> Kimk: sorry I was off doing something. Yes, I was able to use the 'mini.iso' copied onto a vfat filesystem on a USB flash drive to boot, and then did a net install. This was 8.10 alternate. I pplan to try the same with 8.04 alternate so I can use the EMC pkgs.
[22:06:06] <davidma> i only have an old 256 MB flash drive, but I got it to work. I didn't put the entire 700 MB iso on a flas drive, man that would be slow.
[22:06:42] <davidma> let's see, I think I downloaded mini.iso, mounted it, copied all the isolinux files, initrd and vmlinux onto a vfat partition, prepared with 'syslinux -s' to make it bootable.
[22:09:02] <davidma> yep, I just checked in my usb flash drive has syslinux.cfg, syslinux.bin, a kernel and initrd, and some other syslinux stuff.
[22:09:05] <JanVanGilsen> http://imagebin.org/34958 (some testing)
[22:09:32] <cradek> JanVanGilsen: that will be neat
[22:09:41] <davidma> now that I have worked the procedure out and realize that I need to downgrade from 8.10 to 8.04 to use EMC easily, I'll give it a try with 8.04 alternate.
[22:10:05] <KimK> davidma: You didn't use the EMC2 iso? What is the mini.iso that you're installing from? I'm not familiar with that one.
[22:10:16] <JanVanGilsen> still have lots to do =)
[22:10:43] <davidma> kimk: one step I forgot to mention, I used the ubuntu 8.10 iso, mounted on another machine, with the root of the iso filesystem symlinked under my apache wwwroot.
[22:11:02] <davidma> mini.iso is like a miniature install to get a kernel up and running with networking, to do the rest of the install over the net.
[22:11:25] <davidma> in my case I didn't have a working CD handy, so I figured out how to put the essential bits of mini.iso on a flash drive and booted off that.
[22:12:03] <KimK> davidma: OK, great. Glad you found something that would work for you. I hope you enjoy EMC2.
[22:13:26] <davidma> I think the emc2 iso is based on ubunto 8.04 desktop (not alternate), right?
[22:13:46] <KimK> I think that is correct
[22:13:49] <davidma> I tried the usb booting the mini.iso and then net installing the emc2 image, but the installer squawked
[22:13:56] <davidma> mini.iso requires an alternate install.
[22:14:09] <davidma> as I discovered!
[22:14:38] <KimK> can you install alternate and then Synaptic to desktop?
[22:14:53] <KimK> I hope there's just one checkbox, LOL
[22:14:58] <davidma> kimk - well the alternate install has an option for 'ubuntu desktop'
[22:15:13] <KimK> excellent!
[22:15:14] <davidma> that is what I did on the 8.10 system I'm using now, and Ihave all the gnome stuff.
[22:15:48] <davidma> so now my plan is to downgrade to 8.04 alternate, then add the emc2 8.04 pkgs. good thing I have cable internet because I seem to be downloading a lot of large ISOs.
[22:16:14] <davidma> I think I'll kick off the d/l right now.
[22:16:39] <KimK> Yes, cablemodem is easy to get used to, isn't it?
[22:16:50] <KimK> * KimK says, as he suffers with dialup
[22:16:53] <jepler> * The planet Tersurus was first mentioned in The Deadly Assassin, where a severely deteriorated Master, at the end of his last regeneration, was found. The spin-off novel Legacy of the Daleks by John Peel relates the events leading up to the Master's arrival there.
[22:16:57] <jepler> * The final Eighth Doctor Adventures novel, The Gallifrey Chronicles, suggests that the Doctor has three different ninth incarnations, a possible reference to the canonical television Ninth Doctor (played by Christopher Eccleston), the Shalka Doctor (Richard E. Grant) and the Ninth Doctor portrayed by Rowan Atkinson in this story. However, it should be noted that no positive identification is given for any of the ninth Doctors in Chronicles. Other po
[22:17:05] <jepler> oops
[22:18:21] <KimK> jepler: Wait, Rowan Atkinson (Mr. Bean?) is a Dr. Who now? Yikes!
[22:19:05] <davidma> i've watched the new Dr. Who a few times.
[22:19:16] <davidma> much better special effects
[22:19:29] <KimK> OK, OK, off topic. Off topic. (But *Mr. Bean* ?!?!)
[22:22:15] <KimK> * KimK wonders if Dilbert will be the next James Bond now
[22:24:55] <jepler> KimK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_and_the_Curse_of_Fatal_Death
[22:27:07] <Dallur> hmm I prefer non-fatal death
[22:32:08] <KimK> jepler: OK, well, since it was a parody, then maybe Rowan Atkinson was perfectly cast. I'll let you know if I ever see it.
[23:12:07] <KimK> jepler: I hope to come to Lincoln in the near future, certainly in the spring, if not sooner with good weather. Maybe I can buy you and cradek dinner sometime?
[23:14:09] <cradek> not sure you'd have to buy, but it sounds fun to me
[23:15:17] <flexmotioncnc> good mornig i want help for emc2
[23:15:34] <flexmotioncnc> i'm italian
[23:16:05] <KimK> cradek: Great, I'll let you and jepler know in plenty of time when my Lincoln errand brings me there
[23:16:18] <KimK> Hi flexmotioncnc, what do you need?
[23:16:25] <Vq^> flexmotioncnc: it's not morning in italy is it?
[23:17:28] <flexmotioncnc> i have patched linux debian testing with realtime
[23:17:46] <flexmotioncnc> and i have compiled the new kernel
[23:18:11] <flexmotioncnc> at the new rebbot i select rtai-kernel for bbot
[23:19:23] <flexmotioncnc> but the processing boot stopping and after 2 minuts appare the message:alert! /dev/hda1 does not exist
[23:19:35] <flexmotioncnc> what is the problem?
[23:20:06] <KimK> * KimK will step aside and let one of the experts take this one...
[23:20:07] <cradek> this is not an emc2 question, it is a kernel building question
[23:20:44] <flexmotioncnc> yes , but i thing some people have this problem
[23:20:56] <cradek> maybe you are missing the ide driver, or something else basic like that
[23:21:33] <cradek> or if your system uses initramfs, it has the wrong modules in it
[23:21:33] <Vq^> flexmotioncnc: could be that you have chosen the wrong harddrive driver
[23:21:33] <Vq^> flexmotioncnc: or none at all
[23:22:30] <flexmotioncnc> the normal kernel 2.6.26 boot normally in ide drive
[23:23:25] <flexmotioncnc> i have patching the kernel with precompilate package .deb and i install the pakage
[23:24:54] <cradek> then you have something important different between the configuration of the two kernels
[23:33:24] <JanVanGilsen> http://imagebin.org/34967
[23:33:58] <cradek> JanVanGilsen: xyz positions?
[23:34:03] <JanVanGilsen> yes
[23:34:09] <cradek> cool!
[23:38:10] <skunkworks_> join emc-devel
[23:54:42] <JanVanGilsen> i'm off to bed