#emc | Logs for 2008-07-31

[00:55:52] <jmkasunich> skunkworks: I'm glad you and jepler figured it out, because I don't remember how i did it
[00:56:05] <jmkasunich> I haven't used eagle since I worked on that board
[04:04:42] <cradek> well I figured out why the HNC won't run a G00. there is no such gcode.
[04:04:53] <cradek> you have to program G01 F80000
[04:12:59] <stustev> if you are not careful you will end up with a shop full of machine tools and not one will be controlled by EMC2. :)
[04:13:25] <cradek> haha
[04:13:52] <stustev> I firmly believe EMC2 will run either of your machines!
[04:14:23] <cradek> I bet you are right.
[04:14:37] <cradek> I'm sure the lathe will get it.
[04:14:48] <toastyde1th> cradek: does the present lathe control have roughing cycles?
[04:14:50] <cradek> the mill - maybe eventually
[04:14:57] <toastyde1th> or is it super old school
[04:14:57] <cradek> toastyde1th: haha no
[04:14:59] <stustev> although - it is nice to see the machines are in good enough shape to run as they are
[04:15:01] <toastyde1th> owned
[04:15:01] <cradek> super old
[04:15:23] <cradek> no microprocessor to be found
[04:15:29] <toastyde1th> wow
[04:15:53] <toastyde1th> i'd put an old machine like that on emc, but i'd have a hard time ripping a fanuc/yasnac/okuma control out of a machine
[04:15:54] <cradek> it's amazing that they ever worked.
[04:15:57] <toastyde1th> for emc
[04:16:07] <toastyde1th> srsly
[04:16:10] <cradek> no worries - I can't afford anything so new
[04:16:14] <toastyde1th> and that people managed to debug them?
[04:16:20] <toastyde1th> that's crazy
[04:16:26] <cradek> you should see the hand-wired backplane
[04:16:34] <toastyde1th> hahahah
[04:16:35] <cradek> thousands (really) of wire-wrap connections
[04:17:38] <toastyde1th> ouchies
[04:17:44] <toastyde1th> take pics, ha.
[04:17:45] <stustev> no place for corrosion or contamination in those connections
[04:17:52] <cradek> hard to imagine how many hours of labor went into building each one, and how much they must have cost new
[04:18:45] <toastyde1th> we have a super early, super accurate cnc, it apparently cost a quarter million back in the early 60's
[04:19:05] <toastyde1th> friggin' crazy
[04:19:10] <cradek> nc, not cnc
[04:19:16] <toastyde1th> yar, sry.
[04:19:32] <cradek> that's another decade older than mine
[04:20:11] <toastyde1th> lol
[04:20:28] <toastyde1th> there are actually a lot of them around
[04:20:39] <cradek> my mill is 'new' - from 83. it needed some repair but runs pretty well. it has a serial port so it's easier to use than this thing.
[04:21:01] <toastyde1th> except they're all sitting at the bottom of a mineshaft out in iowa somewhere, because they were used for turning cores for nuclear weapons
[04:21:31] <toastyde1th> hot man!
[04:21:33] <cradek> huh. the 60s were a long time ago.
[04:21:53] <toastyde1th> lol
[04:22:07] <toastyde1th> what brands are your machines
[04:22:15] <cradek> bridgeport mill, hardinge lathe
[04:22:30] <toastyde1th> series 2 bport?
[04:22:37] <cradek> no, series 1
[04:22:48] <toastyde1th> cool man
[04:23:01] <stustev> do you have pictures of the lathe posted anywhere?
[04:23:04] <cradek> I have not needed a bigger table yet. I'm surprised but it has always been enough. sometimes only barely.
[04:23:14] <cradek> stustev: not yet. I should do that.
[04:23:21] <toastyde1th> a lot of stuff fits on a bridgeport, and they're versatile
[04:23:34] <cradek> yes, yay for the knee mill
[04:23:35] <toastyde1th> a+ find
[04:23:54] <stustev> I was thinking of the tooling? What kind of tooling does it use?
[04:24:22] <toastyde1th> i'd be suprised if it took anything but standard lathe tools?
[04:24:25] <cradek> stustev: it has a turret with funny holders that let you mount all sorts of stuff. mostly 3/8 square bits
[04:24:49] <cradek> there must be a way to mount drills/taps too but I haven't seen it yet
[04:24:59] <cradek> rayh said they had a collet scheme
[04:25:06] <toastyde1th> cradek, on the turret, if you look at the perhipery
[04:25:13] <stustev> does it have an area to 'gang' mount some adapters on the cross slide?
[04:25:23] <toastyde1th> is there a four bolt hole pattern?
[04:25:27] <toastyde1th> on each face of the turret?
[04:25:46] <toastyde1th> if so, that's where the holders for taps/drills/boring bars go
[04:25:55] <cradek> http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/
[04:26:09] <cradek> same machine as his
[04:26:11] <toastyde1th> hahaha you have an hnc?
[04:26:13] <toastyde1th> that's so cool
[04:26:41] <cradek> stustev: some adapters hold up to 3 tools in one turret position. like center drill, drill, ream
[04:27:21] <cradek> toastyde1th: I think everything mounts to the top of the turret - no features on the sides
[04:27:31] <toastyde1th> yar, we have the AHC's at work
[04:27:45] <toastyde1th> for taps and stuff they're just little 3c blocks
[04:27:47] <cradek> in http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/00025-1a.jpg you can see a holder for a turning tool for short work
[04:28:07] <toastyde1th> and also blocks with jacobs tapers, quite often dudes put taps and stuff in that becaues it's faster than setting up the 3c
[04:28:34] <toastyde1th> i think we also only have a couple 3c blocks
[04:28:51] <cradek> that would be smart. I should mount up some jacobs chucks.
[04:29:23] <toastyde1th> srs, you have a mill
[04:29:27] <cradek> I have so much to do before worrying about tooling :-)
[04:29:48] <cradek> yes I have a piece of 2"x4"x6' CRS just waiting to be made into tool holders
[04:29:49] <toastyde1th> hahaha =(
[04:30:58] <toastyde1th> what do you have to do
[04:31:00] <toastyde1th> to get it running
[04:31:36] <stustev> is this like your machine? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwhz3Ho_Gx0
[04:32:03] <cradek> yes that's peter wallace's, same as mine
[04:32:29] <toastyde1th> the AHCs are so nice to have around, they're a great little turret lathe
[04:32:30] <cradek> in those videos he is rigid tapping 4-40 with emc
[04:33:05] <toastyde1th> that's a fast toolchange
[04:33:21] <stustev> see - I told you EMC2 could run your lathe. :)
[04:33:28] <cradek> I know I know!
[04:33:36] <cradek> and it will. but there are a lot of things to sort out.
[04:33:44] <cradek> I will be trying jon elson's resolver boards
[04:34:23] <cradek> (which don't quite exist yet)
[04:34:40] <stustev> very good - recently he told me he had just sent the boards out to get fabricated
[04:34:53] <cradek> yes I hear you're the other guy waiting for those
[04:35:42] <toastyde1th> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HM2x0MosOs&feature=related
[04:36:02] <stustev> yes - I don't know how many he is making on this run. I ordered 10. I won't need all 10 immediately.
[04:36:31] <cradek> heh my guess is about 12 then
[04:37:00] <cradek> 10 is a lot but you could go through them fast - just a couple machines.
[04:37:31] <cradek> I'm thinking about ordering a third for the spindle resolver instead of buying and mounting an encoder. I'll see how they work first.
[04:39:13] <cradek> I think he was testing a prototype at workshop but I didn't see it. I wish I had seen the setup and test results.
[04:39:25] <stustev> hey - when you listed your machines you forgot MAX5
[04:39:45] <cradek> yeah and the sherline lathe
[04:40:00] <cradek> their lathe is actually pretty nice. I like it for small stuff.
[04:40:13] <cradek> but the hnc will be better I think.
[04:41:22] <stustev> He didn't have a prototype at the workshop. He hooked up the AD test board. It has the same chip he is using. The response was very fast. Halscope showed virtually no difference or delay.
[04:41:39] <cradek> ah
[04:42:37] <stustev> I had forgotten about your little lathe. It isn't as impressive as MAX5
[04:42:59] <cradek> no, but possibly more useful!
[04:43:18] <stustev> always a caveat
[04:43:31] <cradek> how is cinci?
[04:44:28] <stustev> I wasn't at the shop much today. I don't know what they got done. Yesterday it wasn't going together yet. I will find out tomorrow.
[04:44:57] <cradek> working on assembly sounds good though
[04:45:15] <stustev> yes - all the parts are ready - finally
[04:50:54] <stustev> Cinci has a gear inside the spindle to provide speed feedback to a meter using a capacitive pickup. I milled half of each of the teeth except one. I will now have an index pulse with an inductive prox. This will give me the spindle position no matter the gear. This is on the spindle tube. I will now be able to position the spindle and rigid tap. I hadn't done that before so this will be a nice addition. If I need I can add a capacitive pick u
[04:51:49] <cradek> that was cut off after 'can add a capacitive'
[04:52:27] <stustev> pick up and get the speed directly from the spindle. I don't think I will need that as I will know how fast the spindle is going at all times anyway.
[04:53:21] <stustev> I guess I will have to learn not to talk so much
[04:53:42] <cradek> that sounds good. can you add a second prox to get quadrature? you would need it for tapping
[04:53:49] <cradek> it would be amazing to see a 5 axis machine rigid tap
[04:54:11] <cradek> the code does not do that right now, but I would fix it for you if your machine would do it.
[04:54:37] <stustev> I can add a second prox
[04:55:32] <stustev> we will see how the machine moves to maybe add that - it is old, slow and loose - would be fun to try
[04:56:44] <stustev> I know I will eventually want that on some of my other machines but that will not be tomorrow. thanks
[04:57:40] <stustev> I was reading some of the posts on CNCZone. Maybe the Mach boys would be impressed with rigid tapping on that old machine.
[04:58:44] <cradek> and index homing ... and servos bigger than a gecko can drive ...
[04:59:53] <stustev> mach will not index home?
[05:00:14] <cradek> I don't think it can
[05:00:38] <cradek> there might be some external hardware that can help do it somehow - I am not an expert
[05:01:10] <stustev> wow - all the pretty stuff on the screen - sounds like all fluff and no stuff - in Texas they call that 'all hat and no cattle'.
[05:02:13] <stustev> is my bias showing - I am like Jon Elson - I think I see some bigot in me
[05:02:24] <cradek> depends what you need. it's a step/dir system that lets hobbyists make parts without knowing gcode - different goals, different world
[05:03:42] <cradek> in your shop what use would a pocketing wizard or hole circle wizard be? but on a hobby stepper machine what use would index homing be?
[05:04:55] <stustev> fair enough
[05:05:20] <stustev> it is time for bed - see you later
[05:05:25] <cradek> me too
[05:05:30] <cradek> goodnight
[05:05:37] <stustev> goodnight
[05:43:04] <toastyde1th> beep
[08:29:54] <Preben> Preben is now known as pmbdk
[11:14:36] <pmbdk123> pmbdk123 is now known as pmbdk
[12:12:54] <pmbdk123> pmbdk123 is now known as pmbdk
[12:24:38] <skunkworks_> logger_emc: bookmark
[12:24:38] <skunkworks_> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-07-31.txt
[13:33:49] <BigJohnT> I know I'll catch some flak for this http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=483126&posted=1#post483126
[13:51:02] <cradek> uh-oh, it's getting dangerously near the flamewar line, isn't it
[14:02:11] <skunkworks_> close? I think it has passed that point ;)
[14:06:17] <archivist_ub> just warming the fire
[14:26:06] <skunkworks_> Guest258: hello
[14:26:16] <Guest258> Anyone out there?
[14:26:55] <Guest258> tis me, mr annoying :)
[14:27:06] <cradek> hi benny
[14:27:10] <skunkworks_> Heh
[14:27:26] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ samco.
[14:27:45] <Guest258> wow I said annoying and someone said hi benny. Thats bad :)
[14:27:52] <cradek> lucky guess.
[14:28:05] <Guest258> hmm i wonder
[14:28:10] <skunkworks_> heh - we are usually 'in the know'
[14:28:21] <Guest258> does this keep histyr?
[14:28:25] <Guest258> history
[14:29:19] <skunkworks_> logger_emc: bookmark
[14:29:19] <skunkworks_> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-07-31.txt
[14:29:44] <skunkworks_> I don't think anyone said anything too bad ;)
[14:30:54] <archivist_ub> this is one of the politer channels on irc
[14:30:58] <Guest258> Ha, I wasnt wondering about what they said, I was more wondering if what I say finishes up in the abyss
[14:31:48] <skunkworks_> Guest258: you should ask here about your email issue
[14:32:31] <cradek> are you having trouble with the mailing lists?
[14:32:58] <skunkworks_> (I am not alex) - The IM you sent me. I think I had posted the info from alex_joni about the a recent release
[14:33:21] <skunkworks_> also - someone had done a puppy linux emc2 build. But it is pretty old.
[14:33:25] <Guest258> Ok, ill do that. Originally I could send emails, but now they all bounce saying they are treated as spam.
[14:33:36] <Guest258> I guess some might think them as spam
[14:33:58] <skunkworks_> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Emc_Puppy
[14:34:00] <cradek> maybe there is more specific information than that. put a bounce on pastebin so we can see it.
[14:34:22] <Guest258> Oh ok that explains why i thought you were alex
[14:35:15] <Guest258> pastebin? you mean copy and paste the email here?
[14:35:22] <cradek> no
[14:35:36] <cradek> go to http://www.pastebin.ca and paste it there, then put the URL it gives you here for us to see.
[14:35:59] <cradek> it's a standard way for irc users to each other big pieces of text
[14:36:07] <cradek> to show
[14:36:27] <Guest258> Ok ill do that the next bounce, i have deleted the others
[14:36:31] <Guest258> thanks.
[14:37:04] <Guest258> 12:40 here I best go to bed. Thanks for the help guys
[14:37:15] <cradek> only subscribed folks are allowed to post. the From address must match the one you subscribed from. Usually people having trouble have changed something since they subscribed
[14:37:42] <Guest258> yeh I am subscribed. it did one work, but suddenly stopped
[14:37:54] <cradek> sometimes they have more than one mail address and they forget which one they used originally.
[14:38:06] <cradek> ok, well with more information maybe someone can help you.
[14:38:17] <Guest258> yes thats me, but I tried all 3 and they all bounced
[14:38:45] <Guest258> plus I checked the addy that the daily emc mails come to
[14:39:25] <Guest258> anyway thanks guy, Ill come and "annoy" later :)
[14:39:39] <cradek> ok, I bet there is a detail you are missing. I'll help later then.
[14:39:44] <cradek> goodnight
[14:42:56] <cradek> * cradek is on the 9th year with the same email address
[14:44:21] <skunkworks_> I am the same
[14:44:30] <skunkworks_> atleast 9 years
[14:45:08] <skunkworks_> cradek: is it when you got your own domain? (I actually use my work email for everyting..)
[14:45:15] <skunkworks_> everything
[14:45:28] <cradek> yeah that's when I no longer had to change with ISPs etc
[14:45:52] <cradek> I've had my work email address for 14? yrs now but I have never used it for personal stuff
[14:46:01] <cradek> (I think that's always a bad idea)
[14:47:46] <skunkworks_> yah - I am the IT so... There is a fuzzy line between what is work and what isn't. But I really should start using the email from my website.
[14:49:41] <skunkworks_> a good 100000 saved emails and counting.
[14:50:22] <skunkworks_> the wife just doesn't understand that. but when I can go back and find one from a few years ago - that is ok ;)
[14:51:26] <skunkworks_> jeepers - din logic is huge :)
[14:51:31] <skunkworks_> dil?
[14:51:48] <skunkworks_> dip - thats it
[14:52:06] <skunkworks_> no - dil
[14:52:13] <SWPadnos> remember when a microprocessor was a huge 64-pin DIP?
[14:52:23] <SWPadnos> (the 68000 started out that way I thihnk)
[14:52:25] <SWPadnos> think
[14:56:07] <skunkworks_> yes - z80 also
[14:56:17] <SWPadnos> I thought that was 40 pins
[14:56:28] <skunkworks_> I ment big..
[14:57:27] <archivist_ub> 64180 a z80 derivative is 64 pin iirc
[14:58:16] <SWPadnos> that's a 180 :)
[14:58:28] <SWPadnos> did you ever see the specs for the Z80000 ?
[15:00:52] <archivist_emc> may have a flyer at home dont remember reading
[15:01:09] <BigJohnT> dang step out for a minute and miss everything
[15:01:12] <SWPadnos> heh. I have the spec sheet - looked relatively cool (32 bits, high speed for the day ...)
[15:01:23] <SWPadnos> I don't think it was ever released
[15:01:42] <archivist_emc> 64180 was a hitachi or mitsubishi go faster z80
[15:01:54] <SWPadnos> Hitachi
[15:02:27] <archivist_emc> it was in a canon printer we rebadged with new code in it
[15:02:43] <archivist_emc> FP510
[15:04:39] <archivist_emc> dissassemble canon code fix sillies resell, profit
[15:04:45] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:05:18] <archivist_emc> we did a lot better with the A1210 and PJ1080 models
[15:24:49] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[16:14:21] <usman> hi everyone..
[16:16:07] <usman> I have a question regarding emc (trajectory) G64 (constant velocity mode) / G61(exact stop mode)
[16:18:02] <skunkworks_> ask away
[16:24:43] <usman> if I use G64 in my cam program machine runs very smooth but it does not reach to its commanded position (it even backs off 2 to 3mm before its commanded position thus on job it does not gives exact sizes) but if i use g61.1 machine reaches its commanded position but in this case machine creates vibration and i cannot get the smooth and fast machining. The qustion i want to ask is .. Is there any way to set the limits of g64 in which it adopts the constant velo
[16:25:05] <jepler> yes. Program G64 P- where P is the "tolerance value".
[16:25:38] <SWPadnos> if your machine overshoots by 2-3mm, you have a problem that has nothing to do with G-code
[16:26:09] <jepler> the effect of varying the tolerance value can be seen graphically at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TrajectoryControl
[16:27:09] <usman> no it does not overshoot rather it changes its direction before reaching the commanded position mentioned in the cam program
[16:27:42] <cradek> jepler's answer is right. you are seeing internal corner rounding and you can control the tolerance with G64 P.
[16:27:57] <skunkworks_> your machine accelleration is probably low.
[16:28:02] <cradek> also make sure your machine accelerations are not set unnecessarily low
[16:28:02] <skunkworks_> accelleration?
[16:28:20] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[16:28:21] <SWPadnos> acceleration
[16:28:21] <cradek> accellerrattion
[16:28:23] <jepler> if in certain locations you want to exactly reach the position, command a 0-second pause: G4P0
[16:28:31] <SWPadnos> aacceelleerraattiioonn
[16:28:37] <SWPadnos> zooooomness
[16:30:11] <usman> ok thanks, I shall try and get back with the results...
[16:42:21] <owad> On the Z axis, should the negative direction be up? I have mine configured that way, but I notice that in the mill head moving up when I click '+'
[16:42:48] <anonimasu> down is usually -
[16:43:23] <owad> thanks
[16:43:42] <SWPadnos> '-' means "toward a lower number", which should mean down
[16:45:04] <owad> for the X axis when I click '+', should it go right or left?
[16:45:23] <SWPadnos> if you look at tool motion relative to the work, the tool should go right
[16:45:37] <SWPadnos> so if you have a knee mill or similar, the table should move left
[16:46:12] <owad> ah -- that's where I got confused last time. You're talking about the table moving and I was thinking about the head moving.
[16:46:21] <owad> thank you
[16:46:27] <SWPadnos> well, if you have a gantry, the gantry should move right ;)
[16:46:43] <SWPadnos> you're welcome
[16:48:21] <jepler> if you are using axis, the coordinate origin shows which way each "positive axis" is compared to the work.
[16:50:51] <archivist_emc> be nice if axis knew that my A axis rotates the head doesnt
[16:51:26] <owad> When the Z axis is all the way up, should that be the zero position, or should the 0 position be when it's all the way down?
[16:51:47] <cradek> usually Z up is zero
[16:52:06] <cradek> when you are working you set an offset so the top of the workpiece is zero
[16:53:37] <owad> thanks
[17:09:54] <archivist_emc> 4mm od worm 6 turns helix angle about 21 deg is a flimsy thing to mill !
[17:19:54] <archivist_emc> hmm /me needs sliding head cnc mill
[17:30:44] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[17:44:48] <tomp> owad: the left hand rule... stick your left thumb up, your left indexfinger away from you , your left middle finger pointing to your right. the thumb tip points Z+ , indexfinger tip y+, middle fingertip x+
[17:46:24] <owad> thanks
[17:46:41] <tomp> when you home many cnc machines you see the tool move up, away, and to your right (+,+,+)
[17:47:01] <BigJohnT> tomp I was taught a bit different, left thumb to the left, index finger toward you, left middle finger up :) oh wait that was the goodbye wave to the boss
[17:50:44] <tomp> most web references talk about right hand rules for cnc. so i didnt find a nicer pic.
[17:50:48] <tomp> but i came across this for the cnc/math/programmers here http://www.me.uvic.ca/~mly/PM.pdf "TRIANGULATION-BASED INTELLIGENT CNC MACHINING OF INTRICATE COMPOUND CURVATURE SURFACES"
[17:55:06] <tomp> BigJohnT: it's "the bird"
[17:55:33] <BigJohnT> LOL
[18:06:00] <owad> I have my Z axis homing correctly, now. But when it finishes, it sets its location to 0.4656.
[18:06:03] <owad> I have home loc = 0.0, table travel = -4.5 to 0.0, home switch loc = 0.25, and home search vel = 0.05. I don't see anything in there that's anything like 0.4656...?
[18:06:50] <cradek> owad: you might have a work offset. try machine/zero coordinate system/G54
[18:08:07] <owad> that did it. thanks!
[18:33:27] <colinb> ello
[18:35:12] <jepler> hi colinb
[18:36:24] <colinb> hows it going
[18:36:58] <jepler> fine, thanks
[18:37:30] <colinb> gotta say im impressed with how emc has come along in the last year or so
[18:38:08] <colinb> had to put my retro fits on hold about a year ago while i moved house/workshop ect
[18:38:10] <jepler> thanks, it's always nice to hear
[18:38:33] <colinb> got the new emc and its looking even better :)
[18:39:23] <colinb> got a lot of work ahead with this lathe tho
[18:40:22] <colinb> damn thing weighs about 8 tons
[18:40:25] <colinb> lol
[18:40:26] <jepler> oh yeah? cradek also recently got a lathe he's going to retrofit
[18:40:29] <jepler> I think his only weighs 3 tons though
[18:40:34] <colinb> yeah
[18:40:51] <colinb> its got 50 hp motor, 12 tool changer with active tooling
[18:41:07] <colinb> hydraulic tailstock
[18:41:18] <colinb> lots of trick stuff
[18:41:20] <SWPadnos> active tooling could be interesting
[18:42:05] <colinb> yeah i think so too :)
[18:42:15] <colinb> and iv got a 5 axis mill im building aswell
[18:42:42] <SWPadnos> do you have any documentation on how active tooling is programmed (in G-code)?
[18:43:09] <colinb> its the casting from a fairly decent sized hurco bed mill and a tsudakoma rotary tilt table
[18:43:57] <colinb> SWPadnos its just an m code to enable in fwd or reverse
[18:44:14] <SWPadnos> ok, so "completely custom for each machine" ;)
[18:44:25] <colinb> yeah
[18:44:39] <colinb> the old control might have had some special drill cycles in it
[18:45:01] <colinb> but im happy just doing it long hand
[18:45:26] <colinb> just as long as i can assign M codes to the different functions
[18:47:35] <SWPadnos> M100-M199 are user-defined - they just run external programs to do the work
[18:47:48] <colinb> classic ladder ?
[18:47:58] <SWPadnos> (so you could have a shell script that did a couple of halcmd commands to set some HAL pins)
[18:48:08] <colinb> ah cool
[18:48:15] <colinb> im using the mesa board
[18:48:40] <SWPadnos> makes no difference :)
[18:48:55] <colinb> so id just set M1xx to run whatever script to call a hal IO ?
[18:49:32] <SWPadnos> you put an executable called M100 (or whatever) in the nc_files dir (I think), and it gets run whenever an M100 is encountered in the G-code
[18:50:00] <colinb> oh ok seems easy enough
[18:50:11] <SWPadnos> that script could contain a command like `halcmd sets LiveToolingEnable 1`, assuming you have a signal you've cleverly called "LiveToolingEnable"
[18:50:26] <colinb> yeah
[18:50:45] <colinb> well theres gonna be about 30 IO's ill need to assign to mcodes
[18:50:52] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, there's no way to get any return code back into EMC
[18:51:15] <colinb> oh
[18:51:25] <colinb> how would i deal with tool changing then ?
[18:51:34] <SWPadnos> I think there are M6x codes to set HAL IOs from the motion controller - motion synced I/O
[18:51:47] <SWPadnos> tool cahnging is different from controlling the speed of live tooling
[18:51:49] <SWPadnos> changing
[18:51:53] <colinb> so emc would know that things are in place ?
[18:52:05] <SWPadnos> you would likely need to use classicladder
[18:52:06] <jepler> you can do digital output, digital and analog input from other M-codes: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#sec:M62-to-M65: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#sec:M66:
[18:52:18] <colinb> ah ic
[18:52:23] <SWPadnos> or HAL blocks, or you could write a custom component if your changer is really weird
[18:52:27] <colinb> i think the active tooling is just on or off anyway
[18:52:50] <cradek> you could just have it come on when you load the tool.
[18:52:52] <SWPadnos> there should be a speed setting, or at least a multiplier
[18:52:52] <colinb> unless i change the motor controller
[18:53:13] <SWPadnos> oh, is it run from the same motor as the spindle?
[18:53:17] <colinb> no
[18:53:24] <colinb> has its own motor
[18:53:31] <SWPadnos> phew - didn't see how that would be possible :)
[18:53:39] <colinb> oh its possible :)
[18:53:48] <SWPadnos> or advantageous ;)
[18:54:14] <colinb> there are active tools that have some horrible PTO shaft sticking above the chuck to the active tool changer
[18:54:36] <SWPadnos> ewww
[18:57:31] <colinb> yup
[18:57:49] <colinb> on my machine its just meant as a drill head
[18:57:55] <colinb> so its only got one speed
[19:01:25] <colinb> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/rallyslag/16032008361.jpg
[19:01:31] <colinb> thats the 5 axis table for my mill
[19:02:28] <colinb> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/rallyslag/28122006158.jpg
[19:02:28] <tomp> misc info: mastercam mill tutorial, cadem mil simulator tutorial, Uni HongKong http://www.hku.hk/tscofhku/download/CAM_Training.pdf
[19:02:31] <colinb> and thats the lathe
[19:03:23] <tomp> colinb: could you estimate the nM of the motors involved? MMK just told me 20nM on main and 8nM on rotary
[19:07:25] <tomp> colinb: i ask about the motor sizes on the trunnion table ( "the 5th axis table" )
[19:12:59] <colinb> erm
[19:13:13] <colinb> not entirley sure
[19:13:24] <tomp> nm not needed, hp maybe? or phys size?
[19:13:32] <colinb> there DC motors
[19:13:40] <tomp> or 'bigass' ;) ?
[19:13:44] <colinb> ill get pics tommorow if that helps ?
[19:14:11] <colinb> not sure the NM factor means much anyway as its geared inside
[19:14:22] <tomp> drop something in field of view for scale (6"scale, can of beer , ...)
[19:14:37] <colinb> ok
[19:15:57] <colinb> why are the motors of importance if you dont mind me asking ?
[19:16:13] <tomp> right, MMK uses similar system, a worm driven by servo motor, i wondered about huge power requirement, the rocker is only 20" sqr, the rotary is only 16" dia.
[19:16:34] <lewin1> lewin1 is now known as lewing
[19:17:14] <tomp> its important to me cuz i have to buy the motors. Matsumoto wont provide anything but Fanuc, and I cant afford/use Fanuc
[19:17:40] <tomp> colinb: and thanks for the help
[19:18:15] <colinb> ah ic
[19:18:28] <colinb> well it would depend what gearing was used on that table no ?
[19:19:08] <tomp> i dont have the specs on the gearing yet, http://www.mmkmatsumoto.com/
[19:20:01] <tomp> you are absolutely right, i just thought with no gearing 20nM was monster, but thats just a reaction, not an engineered estimate
[19:20:20] <colinb> right just had a look at one of the motors
[19:20:23] <colinb> its a glentek
[19:21:18] <colinb> says torq 660 in oz
[19:21:45] <anonimasu> 4.65nm
[19:22:17] <colinb> anonimasu beat me too it :)
[19:23:20] <tomp> colinb: thx very much, got glentek site up now, 4.65 nm ... way cool, now i got a ballpark, thx anonimasu
[19:23:32] <colinb> no probs
[19:23:36] <anonimasu> that's not really big motors
[19:24:00] <cradek> anyone need a 12" tilting rotary? it's new in the crate, worms both ways so could be good for cncing.
[19:24:25] <colinb> got any pics ?
[19:25:15] <tomp> cradek: interested, gotta proto something while mmk takes 6 mo's to build real stuff
[19:25:28] <cradek> no, I should have taken some before I closed the crate back up
[19:25:49] <cradek> I wanted to cnc it to make 5 axis on my bridgeport, but it's too big
[19:25:54] <tomp> did you feel the motion?
[19:26:08] <cradek> yes it's pretty smooth
[19:26:35] <cradek> the tilt has less resolution and more backlash than the rotate I think. but you could always tilt it just one way and not worry about it.
[19:27:38] <cradek> http://www.shoprutlandtool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&langId=-1&productId=79215
[19:27:47] <cradek> I think this is the same model
[19:29:36] <tomp> haha clicking on the picture takes you to the same page, not a better view
[19:29:56] <cradek> yeah their pics suck
[19:30:18] <cradek> they should tell you the mounting bolt spacing etc, but they don't
[19:50:00] <tomp> colinb: the mfctr name & 660 oz in is enuf for me, thx, pix not necc
[19:50:08] <colinb> tomp ok np
[19:50:22] <tomp> again thx, was very helpful
[20:07:50] <ds2> arrrggg.. ctrl-c on the wrong window :(
[20:09:21] <robin_sz> greetings peoples
[20:10:36] <robin_sz> so, mesa cards ordred, just got to wait for 'em to turn up now :)
[20:10:54] <jepler> hm I see that geckodrive.com has replaced a perfectly good site with a flash-based site (maybe only the front page is flash? but there are no links to click ..) and broken links to nice pdf files like Step Motor Basics
[20:11:55] <jepler> ugh, somebody should take away this web designer's photoshop: http://geckodrive.com/images/productgecko.png
[20:12:23] <SWPadnos> https://www.geckodrive.com/support.aspx?q=10003&n=522237
[20:12:47] <cradek> jepler: inexorable march of progress?
[20:12:58] <SWPadnos> lemmings march is more like it
[20:12:59] <jepler> cradek: unavoidable change over time?
[20:13:02] <robin_sz> looks Ok to me ...
[20:13:22] <SWPadnos> I saw a message on the gecko group congratulating them on the new site, but didn't bother to look (until now)
[20:13:25] <SWPadnos> how terrible
[20:13:41] <SWPadnos> it looks nice, but it's way more bandwidth and flash-intensive than it needs to be
[20:13:55] <robin_sz> bandwidth is cheap these days,
[20:14:00] <cradek> still no table that tells the differences between all the models
[20:14:04] <SWPadnos> waste is stupid in any case
[20:14:38] <jepler> hah at least on that support page, the gecko's foot overlaps some text
[20:14:58] <robin_sz> not for me ...
[20:15:01] <jepler> "if you spoke to technical [gecko foot makes word illegible] and they referenced [sic] a file, chances are it is here."
[20:15:04] <robin_sz> and is that flash?
[20:15:28] <robin_sz> isnt it just xhtml and layers?
[20:15:41] <jepler> robin_sz: the top navigation is flash
[20:15:54] <robin_sz> not a huge problem is it?
[20:15:58] <SWPadnos> the faq does tell the differences between different drive models
[20:16:19] <SWPadnos> flash is annoying for people who use Linux, partly because there's no 64-bit version
[20:16:23] <SWPadnos> (of the latest anyway)
[20:16:34] <robin_sz> err, i use linux, it seems OK ...
[20:16:41] <SWPadnos> it's also proprietary and unnecessary, which isn't a winning combination
[20:16:43] <SWPadnos> 64-bit?
[20:17:00] <robin_sz> not sure
[20:17:06] <jepler> SWPadnos: there is a very fragile way to run the proprietary 32-bit flash plugin in 64-bit firefox on linux, but after awhile it crashes and won't work again until I restart firefox.
[20:17:08] <robin_sz> i'll guess not
[20:17:14] <SWPadnos> right
[20:17:25] <jepler> so I have to choose: do I lose my tabs, or do I just say "forget it" and go on to some other website...
[20:17:35] <SWPadnos> forget what? :)
[20:17:39] <jepler> (here's a hint: I do the one that I can feel smuggest about, and that's going on to some other website)
[20:18:01] <robin_sz> ive only got 4gb of memory, not needed 64 bit yet
[20:18:02] <SWPadnos> didn't somebody recently mention giving up if there's some level of initial frustration? :)
[20:18:12] <cradek> troll
[20:18:17] <SWPadnos> 4G usually isn't fully usable unless you have 64 bit
[20:18:29] <SWPadnos> since AGP/PCIe map into the memory space
[20:18:35] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:18:44] <robin_sz> well, it keeps up with my typing :)
[20:18:57] <SWPadnos> oh, you must have a 2GHz+ PC then ;)
[20:19:03] <cradek> ha
[20:19:17] <SWPadnos> anything slower wouldn't be able to spell-check or anything (or that's what "they" would have you believe)
[20:19:26] <robin_sz> heh
[20:19:35] <robin_sz> hey I bought a box on eBay this week ...
[20:19:39] <robin_sz> dell 2650
[20:19:47] <SWPadnos> rack server, isn't it?
[20:20:12] <robin_sz> 2 x 2ghz xeon, RAID enabled, 4gb of ram, 2 x hot swap PSU, 2 U rack mount ..
[20:20:20] <robin_sz> for ....
[20:20:23] <robin_sz> £39
[20:20:25] <SWPadnos> EMC!
[20:20:28] <SWPadnos> oh
[20:20:38] <SWPadnos> so that's like $500, right?
[20:20:47] <robin_sz> nealry :)
[20:20:50] <robin_sz> $80
[20:21:09] <robin_sz> quite pleased with that
[20:21:19] <robin_sz> sadly, its going to run windows :( ...
[20:21:36] <SWPadnos> I have a fully legal copy of XP64 Pro, if you need one
[20:21:47] <SWPadnos> unless you'd rather have Vista
[20:21:51] <robin_sz> nooo
[20:21:54] <robin_sz> server 2003
[20:22:07] <SWPadnos> dangit - I guess I'll have to install the stupid thing
[20:22:33] <robin_sz> i suppose id better find a box for when my Mesa cards show up
[20:24:46] <robin_sz> i presume onboard graphics wont be a problem with a mesa card? as i dont need stupidly quick response times, as im not doing step pulse generation
[20:25:01] <robin_sz> so this dell optiplex would be OK?
[20:25:06] <cradek> SWPadnos: do you know if the 7i33t still comes without those screw terminals?
[20:25:21] <SWPadnos> it doesn't come with the pluggable parts, just the sockets AFAIK
[20:25:26] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[20:25:31] <SWPadnos> but DK and Mesa both sell the terminals for $10 or so now
[20:25:35] <robin_sz> terminals are $15 extra
[20:25:39] <SWPadnos> instead of the $22 I had to pay
[20:25:43] <cradek> ah that's perfect
[20:26:04] <robin_sz> i went for the straight 7i33 and 7i37
[20:26:18] <robin_sz> will sort it out with normal cables
[20:26:37] <SWPadnos> if you expect to connect a lot of wires to the "back" terminal strip, I might suggest getting a 90 degree plug and a 180 degree plug, so the wires aren't crunched by the front plug
[20:26:55] <SWPadnos> I came close to putting a right angle socket on my board (for the outer connector)
[20:27:39] <cradek> ok thanks
[20:28:51] <cradek> can I use 7i33 + 2x 7i37 with the new hostmot2 driver?
[20:29:30] <SWPadnos> dunno
[20:29:59] <SWPadnos> wait, the 7i37 is the I/O card, 7i33 is the motor card?
[20:30:14] <cradek> yes
[20:30:28] <SWPadnos> ok, then yes, or if not then you can use the old driver
[20:30:36] <cradek> cool.
[20:30:40] <SWPadnos> I think hostmot2 can act like old hostmot
[20:30:50] <SWPadnos> that should be the default
[20:30:59] <SWPadnos> (if it isn't, someone should file a bug report :) )
[20:31:02] <cradek> I've never used the mesa stuff despite having some of it for a long time
[20:31:18] <SWPadnos> I haven't tried hostmot2 at all either
[20:31:47] <SWPadnos> there's a new card also - the 5i23 - more or less a 5i20 with 400k gates (3 connectors)
[20:31:52] <SWPadnos> $229
[20:32:02] <cradek> 5i20 has 3 connectors right?
[20:32:05] <SWPadnos> yep
[20:32:09] <cradek> good, that's what I have
[20:32:10] <SWPadnos> and 200k gates
[20:32:23] <SWPadnos> the 5i22 is the 4-connector one
[20:38:13] <cradek> whee! "we have everything here. it will be shipped out today."
[20:38:40] <robin_sz> same for me, mine left yesterday :)
[20:38:46] <robin_sz> race for it :)
[20:39:15] <cradek> you will win. I asked for ground shipping.
[20:39:28] <SWPadnos> he's in the UK though
[20:39:30] <cradek> oh you're uk? I'll win.
[20:39:33] <cradek> by far.
[20:40:16] <robin_sz> heh, maybe
[20:40:39] <robin_sz> uk 3 day I think
[20:55:19] <colinb> where bouts in the UK are ya ?
[20:55:30] <robin_sz> in my living room
[20:55:38] <colinb> usefull
[20:55:39] <colinb> lol
[20:55:41] <robin_sz> kidderminster
[20:55:55] <robin_sz> left of birmingham
[20:55:59] <colinb> ah
[20:56:06] <colinb> not a million miles away from me then
[20:56:17] <robin_sz> you in the UK?
[20:56:22] <colinb> im in brackley, northamptonshire
[20:56:29] <robin_sz> about 120 then
[20:56:52] <colinb> nah not that far i dont think
[20:57:42] <robin_sz> ok you win
[20:57:45] <robin_sz> 64.22 miles
[20:57:55] <robin_sz> BUT ...
[20:58:03] <robin_sz> you have to go through leamington spa
[20:58:07] <robin_sz> need I say more?
[20:58:21] <colinb> fair enough
[20:58:22] <colinb> lol
[21:01:09] <colinb> still nice to know there are emc users not a huge distance away
[21:02:27] <robin_sz> not actually using it again yet
[21:03:57] <robin_sz> ive used it before,
[21:04:18] <colinb> ah
[21:04:52] <colinb> im planning on running my entire workshop on it
[21:05:03] <robin_sz> interesting
[21:05:08] <robin_sz> mills?
[21:05:14] <colinb> mills and lathes
[21:05:18] <robin_sz> right
[21:05:21] <robin_sz> servos?
[21:05:27] <colinb> oh yeah
[21:05:33] <colinb> some of it is pretty big stuff
[21:05:33] <robin_sz> shoudl be fine
[21:05:48] <colinb> mill is 5 axis
[21:05:49] <robin_sz> bridgeports?
[21:05:52] <colinb> bigger
[21:06:06] <colinb> lathe is turn with 12 tool turret and active tooling
[21:06:17] <robin_sz> coo
[21:06:25] <robin_sz> and ot doesnt have a workign control?
[21:06:39] <colinb> yeah
[21:06:47] <colinb> got em cheap
[21:07:32] <robin_sz> nice
[21:09:07] <robin_sz> i have a mate with a Beaver NC25, nice mill
[21:09:19] <colinb> yeah
[21:09:24] <robin_sz> what lathe is it you have?
[21:09:30] <colinb> churchhill
[21:09:35] <robin_sz> slant bed
[21:10:08] <colinb> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/rallyslag/28122006158.jpg
[21:10:31] <robin_sz> nice
[21:10:38] <robin_sz> and the sinumerik is broken?
[21:11:51] <colinb> i think the control itself does work ok
[21:12:01] <colinb> its the spindle drive
[21:12:06] <robin_sz> they are pretty decent controls
[21:12:11] <colinb> but iv just had enough of it
[21:12:28] <robin_sz> you'll still need to fix the spindle drive anway
[21:12:32] <colinb> yeah
[21:12:36] <colinb> iv bought a new drive
[21:12:43] <colinb> control teqniques
[21:12:56] <robin_sz> big ac drive?
[21:12:59] <colinb> DC
[21:13:03] <robin_sz> coo
[21:13:05] <robin_sz> like the beaver then
[21:13:23] <robin_sz> oodles of low rpm torque
[21:14:18] <colinb> yeah
[21:14:20] <robin_sz> hmmm .. so, imagine ai have a big AC servo ...
[21:14:24] <robin_sz> I wonder ...
[21:14:40] <robin_sz> if I had a VFD .. with a 10 0 -10 input ...
[21:14:50] <robin_sz> would that work as a servo drive?
[21:14:53] <colinb> i did send the motor and drive to EDMR for refurbishment
[21:14:59] <colinb> but the drive still faults
[21:15:03] <robin_sz> ah
[21:15:19] <robin_sz> you tried the usual tricks?
[21:15:29] <colinb> baseball bat ?
[21:15:32] <robin_sz> nah
[21:15:44] <robin_sz> goats blodd and chicken sacrifices
[21:15:48] <colinb> lol
[21:15:56] <colinb> tryed to get info on the drive
[21:16:00] <colinb> but it was all in german
[21:16:24] <robin_sz> ah
[21:16:38] <robin_sz> best to try daschund blood then
[21:17:10] <colinb> everyone i tryed to call for advice or even to come look at it did that horrible breathing in through the teeth thing
[21:17:58] <robin_sz> ah
[21:18:49] <robin_sz> still, it worked once ...
[21:18:56] <robin_sz> what man has made, man can mend
[21:18:58] <colinb> so i decided to call it a day on the siemens stuff and get a drive thats made by english speakers
[21:19:00] <robin_sz> or buy on ebay
[21:19:15] <robin_sz> the sinumerik itself is well supported
[21:19:31] <robin_sz> plenty of them in use in the uk
[21:19:44] <colinb> yeah
[21:19:53] <colinb> ill give it one last go before i rip it out
[21:20:07] <colinb> it was acting a bit flakey last time i tryed it
[21:20:09] <robin_sz> you'll get decent money for it in spares anyway
[21:20:49] <colinb> yeah probably
[21:20:56] <dmess> hi all
[21:21:02] <robin_sz> boo!
[21:22:14] <robin_sz> trumpf used that control on their lasers for a while too, and a million mills and lathes have it
[21:22:30] <colinb> cool
[21:22:39] <robin_sz> you'll probably get a couple of k flogging the bits piece by piece on ebay
[21:22:39] <colinb> still think EMC will do a better job
[21:22:56] <colinb> yeah its in a rack ill sell each board individually
[21:23:14] <robin_sz> emc is capable of doing the job ofr sure
[21:23:31] <robin_sz> but, might take a lot of time to set it up
[21:23:41] <robin_sz> simple mills are one thing,
[21:23:43] <colinb> yeah i know
[21:23:47] <robin_sz> big lathes with live tooling ...
[21:23:59] <robin_sz> id unplug the simumaerik
[21:24:00] <colinb> well ill set it up as a simple lathe to start with
[21:24:05] <robin_sz> pack it away ...
[21:24:11] <robin_sz> not cut any waires
[21:24:15] <colinb> then add on the bits i need
[21:24:25] <robin_sz> and use connectors to hook up emc
[21:24:32] <robin_sz> then, if it doesnt work out, you can go back
[21:24:36] <colinb> no intention on cutting wires
[21:24:44] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[21:24:45] <colinb> everythings labeled and numbered with diagrams
[21:24:49] <robin_sz> sounds like a good plan then
[21:25:16] <robin_sz> the tool chnage logic is going to be fun
[21:25:44] <colinb> think its quite simple actually
[21:25:58] <colinb> its done with hyds
[21:26:32] <robin_sz> in an ideal world ...
[21:26:36] <robin_sz> you do :
[21:26:38] <robin_sz> T6
[21:26:39] <colinb> just kick open the solenoid to rotate it till it hits the switch
[21:26:52] <robin_sz> and the slide retracts, or whatever,
[21:26:58] <robin_sz> moves to safe pos
[21:27:08] <robin_sz> gets everytnung ont to the right place
[21:27:24] <robin_sz> and the tool does its thing
[21:27:29] <colinb> true
[21:27:42] <colinb> but the retract stuff can be done by the cam post processor
[21:27:48] <robin_sz> emc never (but I stand to be corrected) did it that way
[21:27:51] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[21:28:17] <colinb> as far as im concerned EMC itself doesnt need to think about it too much
[21:28:22] <colinb> just needs to follow commands
[21:28:25] <robin_sz> you'll need to put all the positioning moves in etc,
[21:28:31] <robin_sz> yeah, thats one way
[21:28:42] <SWPadnos> I think the only thing EMC2 wouldn't do in that case is move back to the previous point, including new offsets
[21:28:44] <robin_sz> if you have a post to help out, its no big deal
[21:28:56] <colinb> well its easyer to put it into the post to move to X position before it calls Tx
[21:29:06] <robin_sz> yep
[21:29:31] <SWPadnos> what you have to be careful of is that Txx is logically separate from M6, so you want to be sure that the tool selection process is safe to do while the machine is still cutting
[21:29:35] <jepler> emc can implicitly move the axes before a toolchange but won't implicitly move them after the toolchange
[21:29:44] <robin_sz> righty
[21:29:54] <colinb> ok
[21:30:03] <jepler> SWPadnos: or in your ladder program defer the prep steps until load, even though emc provides both signals..
[21:30:08] <SWPadnos> yes
[21:30:29] <robin_sz> emc has come on a long way since I last played with it
[21:30:37] <robin_sz> im looking forward to the fun :)
[21:30:42] <colinb> ill probably just let the post deal with moving the machine axis about
[21:30:55] <colinb> just have the T command worry about rotating the turret
[21:31:31] <jepler> robin_sz: yes, we've worked hard to increase the number of possible misconfigurations from around 10^(10^100) to around 10^(10^(10^100))
[21:32:12] <SWPadnos> jepler, you forgot e in that equation
[21:32:15] <colinb> heh
[21:32:19] <SWPadnos> I'm sure it's supposed to be there somewheer
[21:32:22] <SWPadnos> re
[21:32:33] <robin_sz> oh good
[21:32:34] <robin_sz> :)
[21:33:04] <robin_sz> does the config file still need magic numbers to switch from mm to inch?
[21:33:19] <SWPadnos> no, magic words are acceptable
[21:33:22] <SWPadnos> like mm or inch
[21:33:24] <robin_sz> ah good :)
[21:33:30] <robin_sz> phew
[21:33:32] <robin_sz> :)
[21:33:36] <colinb> cant we just abandon inches already ?
[21:33:37] <robin_sz> im feeling happier already
[21:33:52] <colinb> i hate inches
[21:33:52] <SWPadnos> and if you put "abracadabra" in the right place, interesting things happen
[21:33:55] <robin_sz> no, see, theres a lost tribe ...
[21:33:57] <SWPadnos> but you'll have to find out where
[21:33:59] <jepler> [TRAJ] LINEAR_UNITS = mm http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config_ini_config.html#ANGULAR%20UNITS
[21:34:01] <robin_sz> XYZZY
[21:34:13] <SWPadnos> is that the correct link?
[21:35:10] <colinb> its such a pain in the ass
[21:35:19] <colinb> in F1 almost everything is metric
[21:35:21] <robin_sz> inches?
[21:35:21] <SWPadnos> zyzzva
[21:35:22] <colinb> exept bolts
[21:35:34] <colinb> because there made in the US
[21:35:39] <robin_sz> no they serve a VERY useful purpose in my business at least ...
[21:35:43] <SWPadnos> SAE 8.2, of course
[21:35:57] <SWPadnos> or 8.3 or something
[21:36:15] <robin_sz> 8.8 is high tensile
[21:36:39] <robin_sz> we do have a use for inches in my business (steel fabrication and laser cutting)
[21:36:55] <colinb> how so
[21:37:17] <robin_sz> if a client sends in a job in inches ... we decline it. helps us weed out the dinosaurs who send in paper drawings etc
[21:37:54] <colinb> nice :D
[21:38:05] <robin_sz> "hello, I need a piece of steel 20" by ... " click .. brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
[21:38:41] <robin_sz> harsh
[21:38:43] <robin_sz> but fair
[21:38:47] <colinb> deffo
[21:38:59] <colinb> anyone that tryed to talk to me in inches gets a death stare
[21:39:11] <robin_sz> i just act dumb
[21:39:16] <jepler> I work in decimal inches in schematic capture, since so many parts have pins or pads on a .1" or .05" grid
[21:39:27] <robin_sz> thats true
[21:39:37] <robin_sz> but I just call it ".1"
[21:39:47] <robin_sz> kinda forget its .1 of waht
[21:39:53] <jepler> indeed
[21:39:57] <colinb> heh
[21:40:13] <robin_sz> weve not had job in inches in a while
[21:40:14] <colinb> its the 1/183423423 of an inch shit that bugs me
[21:40:28] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:40:31] <robin_sz> 13/64th
[21:40:34] <robin_sz> get a life
[21:41:07] <colinb> then you question wtf there on about
[21:41:29] <jepler> 13/64 .. is that more or less than 3/8? I can't be bothered to figure that out..
[21:41:32] <colinb> and you get a lecture from some old boy about how he had to work out fractions while walking in his bare feet in snow for 20 miles just to get to school
[21:41:37] <colinb> uphill no less
[21:41:53] <robin_sz> doesnt happen to me
[21:41:55] <robin_sz> well,
[21:42:05] <robin_sz> they might ecture
[21:42:11] <robin_sz> but the door is shut by then
[21:42:40] <colinb> i try to only deal with CAD files now anyway
[21:42:49] <robin_sz> absolutely!
[21:42:58] <robin_sz> no dxf is a BIG warning sign to me
[21:43:00] <colinb> since most of the stuff i do is 3D and 5 axis it kinda has to be
[21:43:36] <colinb> dxf isnt much use to me most of the time
[21:43:38] <colinb> lol
[21:43:42] <colinb> iges i can do
[21:48:17] <colinb> okie dokie
[21:48:19] <colinb> bed time
[21:48:21] <colinb> gnight all
[21:48:52] <jepler> see you colinb
[22:07:05] <robin_sz> bye
[22:55:17] <Guest430> Can EMC be run in DSL (Damn Small linux)? is there a pre installed version out there?
[23:11:21] <robin_sz> probably not
[23:12:09] <robin_sz> just use the ubuntu live CD
[23:12:12] <robin_sz> and be happy :)
[23:12:20] <tomp> if anyone gets a socket 775 mobo, be very very very careful, the cpu is like a bga, but the socket it actually pins sticking up. teeny bent pins meant to smash seat on the ball grid. i fortunately was able to repair 1 bent hairpin.
[23:12:53] <tomp> no one's done rtai on dsl afik
[23:15:25] <robin_sz> am I right in thinking that running servos with a mesa card will be less demanding of the real time stuff than rying to do steppers?
[23:16:15] <robin_sz> slower rates, not so troublesome if the latnecy wobbles about a bit?
[23:18:14] <skunkworks> if you don't need anything else fast.. THen yes - 1ms/.5ms is a lot less taxing then 30us.
[23:18:21] <skunkworks> servo thread
[23:18:41] <robin_sz> yep
[23:18:46] <robin_sz> 1ms is plenty for servos
[23:18:54] <robin_sz> especially big heavy ones
[23:19:02] <tomp> i think robin_sz is right, but its a matter of magnitude. meaning a bad enough report from latency test is bad even for servos. i do not know where the bounds are for servos.
[23:19:52] <tomp> if your thread is stable at that speed, then its ok
[23:21:33] <skunkworks> tomp: yes - I ran my finger across a bad mother mother board because there was a piece of dust on the socket. bent a ton of those small pins
[23:21:58] <skunkworks> oops
[23:22:05] <skunkworks> this was a small dell with blown caps
[23:22:29] <robin_sz> so long as the servo loop speed is say, 10 times the response tine fo the servo and gears/ballscrews etc .. then thats enough
[23:23:41] <robin_sz> 10khz servo loops on a servo that rolls off at 100hz is pointless
[23:23:49] <SWPadnos> if that machine decides to go out to lunch for some silly ACPI thing, then latencies could get into seconds (really)
[23:24:02] <SWPadnos> but it's unlikely that there will be major problems
[23:24:08] <tomp> robin_sz: good point, may 2.5x is enuf (vs 1.5 general engineering overkill)
[23:24:23] <SWPadnos> one issue that you'll probably have is that the liveCD kernel isn't SMP, so you'll only be using one core
[23:24:41] <robin_sz> noted
[23:24:42] <tomp> and yes, it must be reliably x times, not occasionally 20x times :)
[23:25:06] <SWPadnos> there is an experimental SMP kernel package, but it's for Dapper - I'm not sure what you'd have to do to get it installed on Hardy
[23:25:43] <SWPadnos> I think it may be compiled for a max of 2 CPUs also, since I had no trouble with it on several core 2 duo machines, but it didn't boot on a dual dual-core Opteron machine
[23:25:55] <SWPadnos> (which could be the fault of the flaky Opteron machine, but I'm not sure)
[23:28:47] <robin_sz> core duo is so common now, it should be the defualt build pretty much
[23:29:22] <robin_sz> you could dedicate a CPU to rt really
[23:29:36] <SWPadnos> well, if you can build an R SMP kernel that works well on non-SMP systems and is as reliable as the UP one, I'm sure we could be convinced to include it as the default kernel
[23:29:43] <SWPadnos> s/R/RT/
[23:30:21] <robin_sz> one core for user sside stuff
[23:30:26] <robin_sz> the other for RT
[23:30:41] <robin_sz> might simplyfy a lot of stuff in some ways
[23:31:01] <SWPadnos> that's what I did - you pass isolcpus=xx to the kernel, and those CPUs are left alone by the scheduler
[23:31:08] <robin_sz> ah ha
[23:31:14] <SWPadnos> it isn't as perfect as you'd think, but it does work
[23:31:35] <SWPadnos> that application ended up with under 1us latencies in normal operation
[23:31:42] <SWPadnos> closer to 200 ns most of the time
[23:32:05] <robin_sz> well, if you ask the user space stuff to leave the rt core alone ...
[23:32:26] <SWPadnos> then certain critical sections will still pause execution on the other core ;)
[23:32:36] <robin_sz> i gues so
[23:32:49] <robin_sz> still
[23:32:58] <SWPadnos> normal tasks won't get scheduled there (kernel or user tasks), but there are still management kernel threads that get put there
[23:33:22] <robin_sz> it wasnt an option for a long time, core duo makes it more practical
[23:33:27] <SWPadnos> kjournald caused a blip every 5 seconds as well (until I decided to use ext2 instead of ext3)
[23:33:39] <SWPadnos> isolcpus has been around for quite a while, I think
[23:34:01] <SWPadnos> it was put there for big apps like Oracle, I think
[23:34:01] <robin_sz> the everyday luxury of multi core hasnt thogh
[23:34:16] <robin_sz> dual cpu was exotic for most ppl
[23:34:18] <SWPadnos> sure, it's cheaper and more or less ubiquitous in new machines
[23:34:27] <robin_sz> yep
[23:34:54] <SWPadnos> I have a nephew who's buying a new PC for gaming - it'll be a quad core, 4GB RAM, 512M video card ...
[23:35:06] <robin_sz> coo
[23:35:09] <SWPadnos> kind of like the entire computing center when I was in college
[23:35:16] <robin_sz> yeah, and more
[23:35:18] <SWPadnos> (combined)
[23:35:46] <robin_sz> this laptop is 4gb/512mb with hardware open GL, duo 2.33ghz
[23:36:12] <SWPadnos> true - the Iris was all the rage back then - we all rushed to the couple of fast (33MHz) machines at the start of class ;)
[23:36:33] <robin_sz> he he
[23:36:41] <SWPadnos> yep, that's pretty close to my laptop, except I've only got 2GB RAM (but a 1920x1200 screen)
[23:36:47] <robin_sz> and a 40mb disk was BIG
[23:36:56] <SWPadnos> yep
[23:37:03] <SWPadnos> I made my 30 into a 50 by using an RLL controller
[23:37:14] <SWPadnos> huge!
[23:38:06] <SWPadnos> time to make dinner. bbl
[23:38:15] <robin_sz> adios .
[23:45:08] <skunkworks> sweet corn is in season... mmmmm
[23:45:20] <robin_sz> really?
[23:45:35] <skunkworks> here in WI ;)
[23:45:50] <robin_sz> i did not reallise it mated ...
[23:46:03] <skunkworks> it is hard to hunt...
[23:46:16] <robin_sz> i guess ...