#emc | Logs for 2008-05-29

[00:03:56] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> jepler, heh... I just read that.
[00:04:05] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> I was thinking... what's mach... hmm...
[00:04:11] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> took me a sec
[00:05:21] <eric_U> am I missing something?
[00:05:37] <SWPadnos> yes
[00:07:11] <eric_U> what is it?
[00:07:28] <SWPadnos> [18:25:11]<[1]a-l-p-h-a>sup?
[00:07:30] <SWPadnos> [18:36:09]<jepler>[1]a-l-p-h-a: everyone's switched to mach, the channel is closed.
[00:07:50] <eric_U> ah, my router was acting up about then
[00:08:25] <SWPadnos> yep. you rejoined about 15 minutes later
[00:08:28] <eric_U> I think rayh's evil twin kicked everyone again
[00:08:35] <SWPadnos> no, just you
[00:09:04] <eric_U> I need to get a new router, still using 802.11b
[00:10:03] <SWPadnos> I'm using 802.3u
[00:10:11] <eric_U> u are not
[00:10:17] <cradek> it's so easy to crank the knee down 2 feet, but for the sense of impending doom
[00:10:39] <SWPadnos> and the fact that you'll eventually have to crank it *up* that same 2 feet
[00:10:46] <eric_U> my mill has air assist, not working. Going down is easy, going back up is insanely hard work
[00:10:53] <cradek> yes that's exactly what I meant
[00:11:08] <eric_U> a regular bridgeport is not that big of a deal to crank back up
[00:11:21] <SWPadnos> unless you have not worked out in many days
[00:11:26] <cradek> it doesn't seem to crank that hard, until you get to turn 50/200
[00:11:45] <eric_U> my knee weighs approximately the same as a series one BP
[00:11:59] <cradek> ouch
[00:12:11] <cradek> hope it's not .1"/turn on acme then
[00:12:24] <eric_U> it's the same screw as a series I
[00:12:29] <eric_U> or very close
[01:22:49] <rayh> .back
[01:23:10] <rayh> darn can't type again.
[01:24:04] <rayh> still.
[02:18:20] <klickrr> what linux cam software does everyone use? besides qcad's cam expert
[02:19:59] <eric_U> most of the people here seem to think in g code
[02:22:14] <klickrr> ehhe
[02:22:38] <klickrr> i just saw some new screenshots for gcnccam, looks decent, i'll give it a try
[02:23:06] <klickrr> i think i've tried it before a long time ago and didn't really have much, appears to have new features... we'll see
[02:23:16] <klickrr> and an error on compliation, cool :)
[02:33:06] <rayh> I use Synergy but it is not a free product.
[02:34:51] <klickrr> i've used their demo, didn't have enough time to mess with it, you think it's a good product?
[02:36:13] <rayh> <eric_U> I think rayh's evil twin kicked everyone again. I think poutine's gone for good. He was more than a little upset by Jymm's subnet ban.
[02:37:01] <DanielFalck> yea for Jymm
[02:37:15] <eric_U> yea
[02:37:17] <DanielFalck> rayh: I just talked with Patrice on the phone
[02:37:29] <DanielFalck> about his EMC controlled machine
[02:37:37] <rayh> Fantastic. Glad that you guys are getting together.
[02:37:41] <DanielFalck> sounds like an interesting fellow
[02:37:55] <DanielFalck> we're going to have a look at the machine in June
[02:37:59] <rayh> I've asked him to get permission to post the details and pics.
[02:38:08] <rayh> Great. You'll like it a lot.
[02:59:10] <dmwaters> {global notice} Good day all, one of our European hubs had a major routing problem but things look to be alright now, thank you for your patience, and thank you for using freenode!
[03:42:03] <JymmmEMC> eric_U: What was that about being upset?
[03:43:20] <toastydeath> did anyone ever figure out what that one crazy person wanted with .001 feed rates on a grinder with an air bearing table or whatever
[03:49:13] <cradek> I think he said for sharpening ceramic tools?
[03:49:48] <toastydeath> cute!
[03:52:11] <eric_U> JymmmEMC: what you talkin' 'bout?
[03:56:36] <eric_U> rayh said someone was upset, not me, I know less than nothing about being upset
[04:02:22] <klickrr> is there anyway to reverse a signals output if it's a bit ? My limit switches are hooked up but they are throwing TRUE when they are NOT being pressed and FALSE when the machien comes into contact with them... So as soon as I engage the system i'm getting limit switch errors of course.
[04:03:14] <klickrr> can't seem to find any command to reverse a bit signal's value
[04:03:25] <eric_U> that's gotta be pretty obvious in the manuals
[04:03:35] <cradek> input pins generally have -in and -in-not
[04:03:42] <cradek> just use the other one
[04:03:43] <klickrr> oh
[04:03:47] <klickrr> well thank you
[04:04:06] <klickrr> linksp Xminlim <= ppmc.0.din.01.in
[04:04:15] <klickrr> that's what it is now, so probably linksp Xminlim <= ppmc.0.din.01.in-not
[04:04:21] <eric_U> are you sure your switches are really compatible with your inputs?
[04:04:48] <klickrr> that is from the pico-systems.com config file, the USC
[04:05:06] <klickrr> i'm using normally closed switches, and with those the default config is expecting the opposite
[04:05:19] <klickrr> or maybe he did that so that when they first hook it up they don't need to connect limit switches, i dunno
[04:05:56] <klickrr> i know the switches change the value of Xminlim "halcmd gets Xminlim" goes back and forth from TURE to FALSe as it's triggered... so
[04:06:08] <cradek> using NC limit wiring is quite proper. just use the other input
[04:06:28] <klickrr> cool, thanks
[04:39:32] <eric_U> I think NC switches are best
[04:48:53] <eric_U> matlab hosed my x11
[04:52:27] <eric_U> ok, so that is getting old fast
[07:33:54] <gfixler> anyone have any thoughts on what would be best to use for flattening my circular saw table's miter channel?
[07:34:31] <gfixler> I got advice weeks ago in here about how to set up a nice dial test indicator setup for finding the high and low points
[07:34:36] <gfixler> I have a new mill file
[07:34:43] <gfixler> but was wondering if a hone stone of some sort might be better
[07:35:12] <gfixler> and if it's more generally accepted that one should be filing a large section all at once with even pressure, or attacking high points with something smaller
[07:35:59] <gfixler> I guess I should say 'straightening,' rather than 'flattening'
[07:36:11] <gfixler> it seems to have a bend at the back edge that causes a tight miter slide to lock in place back there
[08:35:11] <fenn> gfixler: http://www.antiquetools.com/scrape/index.html and you can get a surface plate from enco for like $20 free shipping
[08:35:34] <fenn> but plate glass should be fine, and you can use sharpie marker for blue (unless you want ultra superduper precision)
[08:36:54] <fenn> actually a better way to do it is color the piece you're trying to make flat and rub it on the reference plate, the high spots will show up as not-blue
[08:37:54] <fenn> a file won't take off enough material and will eventually make the surface convex unless you're already good at it
[09:28:22] <gfixler> fenn: was out in the garage just now, but thanks for the info!
[09:28:37] <gfixler> I knew it was more involved than just rubbing the mill file back and forth :)
[09:29:01] <gfixler> the tricky bit is that it's the edge of the miter channel that needs to be flattened up
[09:29:26] <gfixler> so it's not like a nice, flat, table surface
[09:30:00] <gfixler> whatever I use also needs to fit in the IIRC 3/4 wide channel
[09:30:35] <gfixler> extra trickiness will involve not just making it a nice flat edge, but making that nice flat edge parallel to the saw blade, as much as possible
[10:09:57] <fenn> oh you need to straighten a groove.. could use a safe-edge file with an angle plate to keep it square.. i dunno about parallelism
[10:10:27] <gfixler> as in for safes, like the boxes valuables are placed in?
[10:10:45] <fenn> no, safe-edge means one (or more) surface of the file is smooth
[10:10:51] <gfixler> ah, nice
[10:11:00] <gfixler> yeah, the one I have now is a file on all 4 sides
[10:11:19] <gfixler> I have a precision straight edge, longer than the table's depth
[10:11:28] <gfixler> I could clamp that down as a reference edge
[10:11:50] <gfixler> I was considering machining an aluminum block to which I could mount a dial test indicator
[10:11:56] <fenn> can you use the table fence?
[10:11:58] <gfixler> and which I could then run along the edge of the straight edge
[10:12:29] <gfixler> the table fence is pretty nice, but not nearly as accurate as the straight edge clamped to the table
[10:12:32] <fenn> it would already have the clamping and square-adjustment stuff built in
[10:12:53] <gfixler> well, square in woodworking terms is kind of loose
[10:13:02] <fenn> hmm
[10:13:16] <gfixler> could mean 1/32" off by the other side
[10:13:42] <gfixler> my thought so far has been something like this:
[10:13:55] <fenn> lay your straightedge up against the saw blade or something parallel with the blade, and see how far off the fence really is
[10:14:08] <gfixler> actually, I just set that up
[10:14:12] <fenn> heh ok
[10:14:18] <gfixler> I put the straightedge up against the right-facing teeth
[10:14:18] <fenn> and it was 1/32 off?
[10:14:27] <gfixler> blade goes rlrls
[10:14:35] <gfixler> s being a straight/flat tooth for clearing
[10:14:50] <gfixler> so I got opposite teeth to be right-facers, and pushed the straightedge against that
[10:15:10] <gfixler> you have to also remember that even on a nice table, the blade can be pushed
[10:15:27] <gfixler> I can just push on it with one finger, and watch a few thou change on the dial indicator
[10:15:36] <fenn> yep, that's life
[10:15:38] <gfixler> so it's kind of hopeless to get mill accuracy
[10:15:39] <gfixler> however
[10:15:46] <gfixler> I'd like to push to get everything as accurate as possible
[10:15:53] <gfixler> then it'll be *better* than I need, which is awesome
[10:16:05] <Sweeper> * Sweeper needs to make a few jigs for his tablesaw
[10:16:11] <gfixler> :)
[10:16:29] <gfixler> so 1) I'd get the straight edge parallel with the blade, and clamped down
[10:16:53] <gfixler> 2) I'd machine an aluminum block to ride along the straight edge, holding a dial test indicator that reaches into the miter channel
[10:17:08] <gfixler> 3) read the changes along the edge, get a sense of how the sides of the channel are deviating
[10:17:24] <gfixler> 4) ???
[10:17:31] <gfixler> 5) profit
[10:17:47] <Sweeper> 4) make inhumanly accurate jigs
[10:18:06] <gfixler> another possibility is to get a very square metal block that's magnetic
[10:18:11] <gfixler> yeah, i wish
[10:18:21] <gfixler> then I can use my magnetic indicator holder
[10:18:32] <gfixler> and its arms to get the dial indicator in fancy places
[10:18:51] <gfixler> and run the steel block along the straight edge to read all 4 edges of the two miter channels
[10:19:08] <Sweeper> see, I don't have a mill, so I have to make the runners out of wood. hell, the mitre that came with the saw wobbles a good 1/16th in the slot!
[10:19:08] <fenn> sounds like a better idea than not doing it
[10:19:09] <gfixler> I was kind of thinking of using that as my flatness indicator
[10:19:14] <gfixler> honing in between
[10:19:15] <gfixler> yeah
[10:19:19] <gfixler> anything is something
[10:19:42] <fenn> i always thought they were supposed to wobble in the slot
[10:20:11] <gfixler> I read somewhere the notion that they do that, because the manufacturers are erring on the side of having more pieces fit than not
[10:20:25] <gfixler> if they make them all to fit with no wobble, then say, half might not fit
[10:20:27] <gfixler> too tight
[10:20:38] <Sweeper> yea, I was surprised at that. my old ryobi wobbled less, and this is a nice bosch :/
[10:20:38] <fenn> woodworking is so underconstrained anyway
[10:20:39] <gfixler> but if they make them all slightly undersized, maybe only a few, or none will ever be too tight
[10:20:51] <gfixler> ideally it shouldn't wobble
[10:21:06] <Sweeper> fenn: eh, I have binding problems when using the mitre + fence
[10:21:13] <Sweeper> because of the wobble
[10:21:16] <gfixler> people shim with things like thickness gages to get them tight
[10:21:19] <fenn> the miters should have springs in them or width adjustment or something
[10:21:29] <gfixler> there's a trick for that
[10:21:39] <Sweeper> and binding in NOT FUN on a fast saw :v
[10:21:41] <gfixler> clamp something of known thickness to the fence well before the blade
[10:21:53] <gfixler> and offset the fence by that much
[10:21:54] <Sweeper> oh
[10:21:59] <Sweeper> damn
[10:22:02] <gfixler> :)
[10:22:11] <Sweeper> that's a pretty obvious one too
[10:22:17] <gfixler> that's what I said when I found out
[10:22:27] <gfixler> and I ran out to try it
[10:22:29] <gfixler> it works great
[10:22:35] <fenn> eh, to do what?
[10:22:45] <Sweeper> although at least with this saw, it just burns the wood instead of flinging it into my stomach at 200mph
[10:22:56] <gfixler> when using the miter gauge, don't push the wood up against the fence
[10:23:07] <gfixler> clamp something like a 3/4" plate to the back end of the fence
[10:23:10] <gfixler> push it up against that
[10:23:18] <gfixler> then when you push the miter gauge through, the wood leaves that plate
[10:23:21] <gfixler> and is that far from the fence
[10:23:27] <gfixler> so it won't bind between the fence and blade
[10:23:40] <Sweeper> and won't make square bruises on your belly
[10:23:42] <fenn> thnk i'll just stay away from table saws.. seems like a bad idea
[10:23:49] <gfixler> I agree
[10:23:57] <gfixler> I spent an awful lot of time researching how to cut wood without them
[10:24:02] <gfixler> no dice
[10:24:10] <fenn> bah
[10:24:13] <Sweeper> they're just so damned useful
[10:24:24] <gfixler> I was really hoping I'd find something like a band saw, but with a thin wire instead of a blade
[10:24:27] <fenn> you can do anything on a table saw instead with a router and a bandsaw
[10:24:31] <gfixler> nearly 0 sawdust
[10:24:34] <gfixler> not dangerous
[10:24:35] <gfixler> quiet
[10:24:41] <gfixler> but that only exists for foam cutting
[10:24:42] <Sweeper> gfixler: laser beams :P
[10:24:46] <gfixler> oh, I wish
[10:24:50] <fenn> water jet
[10:24:52] <gfixler> cheapest laser cutter I can find is $8k
[10:24:53] <Sweeper> har
[10:24:59] <Sweeper> waterjet woodworking
[10:25:07] <gfixler> I also wish that :)
[10:25:12] <gfixler> it's being done
[10:25:17] <gfixler> water cuts wood quite nicely, somehow
[10:25:24] <Sweeper> well, cut yea
[10:25:26] <fenn> its all the abrasive grit
[10:25:33] <Sweeper> but then your piece warps to hell and back
[10:25:36] <gfixler> haha
[10:25:44] <fenn> it does that anyway, i's wood
[10:25:51] <gfixler> researching lasers was also disappointing
[10:25:55] <Sweeper> properly dried wood doesn't :/
[10:26:12] <gfixler> I was hoping I could do things like rout, and etch circuit boards from a single file
[10:26:19] <gfixler> apparently that's rarely done
[10:26:24] <gfixler> the copper reflects into the laser and injures it
[10:26:43] <Sweeper> gotta paint it
[10:26:52] <gfixler> yeah, with apparently mixed results
[10:26:55] <gfixler> from what I found
[10:26:57] <Sweeper> yea
[10:27:05] <fenn> oxidize it? copper oxide is dark black
[10:27:06] <gfixler> but also, painting adds steps, and messiness
[10:27:12] <Sweeper> laser isn't really good at removing material
[10:27:18] <Sweeper> it's for cutting or burning
[10:27:30] <gfixler> I was kind of hoping it would just magically work fast, so I could be rich, and retire to an island full of machines, and fast internet service, somehow
[10:27:33] <Sweeper> I'm putting together a mcwire to make circuit boards for me
[10:27:44] <gfixler> mcwire?
[10:27:46] <fenn> gfixler: japan?
[10:28:02] <Sweeper> http://www.instructables.com/id/Easy-to-Build-Desk-Top-3-Axis-CNC-Milling-Machine/
[10:28:05] <gfixler> I'm in LA, USA
[10:28:16] <gfixler> or did you mean that's where I'd move? :)
[10:28:18] <fenn> "an island full of machines, and fast internet service"
[10:28:21] <gfixler> haha
[10:28:22] <Sweeper> gfixler: been there :P I used to do satellite offshore
[10:28:23] <gfixler> maybe
[10:28:31] <Sweeper> you should buy a decommissioned jackup rig
[10:28:35] <gfixler> a little too crowded and earthquakey, maybe
[10:28:37] <Sweeper> and move around the gulf as you please
[10:28:40] <fenn> or maybe it's singapore
[10:28:45] <gfixler> how random
[10:28:52] <gfixler> I was just imagining tonight having a boat with machines on it
[10:28:54] <gfixler> and living off the grid
[10:29:21] <Sweeper> problem with boat is that the satellite gear is a PITa and expensive
[10:29:30] <gfixler> and the rust problems!
[10:29:32] <Sweeper> 50k+
[10:29:34] <gfixler> I don't even want to think about it
[10:29:47] <Sweeper> eh, decent hvac takes care of rust
[10:30:01] <gfixler> until the hvac rusts!
[10:30:04] <gfixler> hehe
[10:30:10] <Sweeper> nice part about a jackup is that waves won't affect you while you're jacked up
[10:30:19] <Sweeper> no seasickness :D
[10:30:33] <gfixler> nice
[10:30:40] <gfixler> that will also keep all of my tools and screws in place
[10:30:44] <Sweeper> well
[10:30:51] <Sweeper> yea, while you're working, I guess
[10:31:04] <Sweeper> you'd have to secure them while in transit
[10:31:09] <gfixler> if every time I take out a #10-32, it rolls across the room, it would get old fast
[10:31:27] <Sweeper> they also come in all sizes, from 1-person to 100-person crews
[10:31:39] <gfixler> what's their main purpose?
[10:31:59] <Sweeper> the smaller ones service fixed platforms
[10:32:07] <Sweeper> they'll have a crane or two and some welders
[10:32:10] <gfixler> I see
[10:32:14] <gfixler> and you worked on those?
[10:32:16] <Sweeper> the big ones are full drilling rigs
[10:32:33] <Sweeper> I installed satellite internets on them
[10:32:38] <gfixler> nice
[10:33:13] <Sweeper> going out to the small ones was nice, because you'd get to chill there for most of a day, because they only got 1 boat run, and they let you fish
[10:33:23] <gfixler> awesome
[10:33:33] <Sweeper> they're also usually a lot closer to shore, so no long boat ride
[10:33:54] <gfixler> I've always wanted to visit one, and then hide, so they'll forget me there for awhile
[10:34:02] <Sweeper> hehehe
[10:34:18] <Sweeper> it's pretty easy to get a job in the oilfield :P
[10:34:40] <gfixler> I guess it is a pretty big business
[10:34:55] <gfixler> I'm probably too fragile, being mostly an office-working computer guy
[10:34:59] <Sweeper> if I didn't like fast internets so much, I'd probably sign up as cook or hand on a small jackup
[10:35:34] <gfixler> nice, just like Steven Segal
[10:35:34] <Sweeper> well, that, and if I wasn't married and didn't live in Peru at the moment....
[10:35:45] <Sweeper> exactly, but with more fishing
[10:35:49] <gfixler> hehe
[10:35:52] <gfixler> from the US originally?
[10:35:55] <Sweeper> yea
[10:36:02] <gfixler> Peru == work?
[10:36:12] <Sweeper> Peru == cheap living :P
[10:36:19] <gfixler> ah, I did not know that
[10:36:31] <gfixler> LA = crazy expensive living
[10:36:42] <Sweeper> eh?
[10:36:48] <Sweeper> the NO maybe
[10:36:48] <gfixler> los angeles is pricey
[10:36:50] <Sweeper> OH
[10:36:56] <Sweeper> I thought you meant the state
[10:37:03] <gfixler> oh, haha
[10:37:16] <Sweeper> which is why I talked about oil rigs and said I lived there for a while :P
[10:37:23] <gfixler> I can't believe it's never occurred to me that this city's abbreviation is also a state's
[10:37:28] <gfixler> now I get it
[10:37:57] <gfixler> if there was a Los Angeles in Louisiana, it would be LA, LA
[10:38:53] <gfixler> I'm rationalizing a purchase tonight
[10:39:00] <gfixler> calling on all my powers of talking myself into things
[10:39:26] <gfixler> http://www.woodpeck.com/lsrspk3.html
[10:39:28] <gfixler> that thing
[10:39:43] <gfixler> and the plate that goes in - sold separately
[10:39:59] <gfixler> and a Porter Cable 7518 router from Amazon to stick in it
[10:40:55] <gfixler> whenever I do this, I pretend that I'll be making a lot of things I can sell, to recoup the cost, so it'll be like I got it for free
[10:41:12] <Sweeper> I did the same thing with my tablesaw
[10:41:14] <gfixler> I don't think this has ever actually happened, though
[10:41:17] <gfixler> did it work?
[10:41:32] <Sweeper> except it was to save money on contracting a carpenter to do my closets and cabinets
[10:41:50] <gfixler> did it?
[10:42:03] <Sweeper> well, so far, I saved about 1/3rd the price of the saw
[10:42:21] <Sweeper> but I ran out of time, so sent the rest off to be done
[10:42:40] <Sweeper> but the kitchen cabinets are still to do
[10:43:07] <Sweeper> I have plenty of time, just have to get set up on the roof.
[10:43:24] <Sweeper> for that, I'm gonna need a hoise, as the saw won't fit up the spiral stairs...
[10:43:28] <gfixler> you probably don't need to buy more things, but the Kreg K3 Master System makes joining cabinet internals and tops very easy :)
[10:43:37] <Sweeper> hee
[10:43:45] <Sweeper> I don't actually have to worry about that :)
[10:43:54] <gfixler> that's good
[10:44:08] <gfixler> I accidentally worried about it without needing to build cabinets
[10:44:12] <gfixler> and bought the K3
[10:44:34] <gfixler> the overall plan is to eventually transition into making things full time, and living well off of that
[10:44:45] <gfixler> I'm not 100% certain how I get to that point
[10:44:50] <gfixler> but I think I'm heading that way, at least
[10:44:55] <Sweeper> http://flickr.com/photos/sweeperpix/2498360988/ <-- I just have to fill in the holes
[10:45:17] <Sweeper> so basically, amke some doors & drawers, and frame out the concrete
[10:45:18] <gfixler> ah, nice
[10:45:34] <gfixler> yeah
[10:45:53] <gfixler> I have a bad habit of thinking I need killer tools to make anything at all
[10:46:31] <gfixler> I think I'm balancing out a friend who somehow makes cool, useful, and even aesthetically pleasing things out of mostly trash he finds on the side of the road
[10:47:40] <Sweeper> see, what you need to do is rent a place with him
[10:47:51] <Sweeper> a house with a really awsome basement or something
[10:48:00] <Sweeper> and combine your powers
[10:48:03] <gfixler> man, I miss having a basement so much
[10:48:17] <gfixler> growing up in NJ, everyone had big basements, usually turned into game rooms, or lounges
[10:48:29] <gfixler> then I was in FL for about 8 years
[10:48:32] <gfixler> no one there has a basement
[10:48:34] <gfixler> they'd just flood
[10:48:42] <gfixler> and I have yet to see a basement in LA
[10:48:51] <gfixler> not sure why - maybe earthquakes?
[10:48:58] <fenn> dig it out :)
[10:49:01] <gfixler> haha
[10:49:09] <gfixler> I thought about it
[10:49:12] <fenn> someone in here did that.. i forget who
[10:49:14] <gfixler> I wanted to have a conveyor running to a truck
[10:49:20] <fenn> oh it was tom_l
[10:49:20] <gfixler> and just spend an hour each night for a few months digging
[10:49:23] <Sweeper> yea, I was in louisiana, and fl, and now peru :(
[10:49:27] <gfixler> until I could pour a floor, and put up some walls, and a ceiling
[10:49:49] <Sweeper> my house isn't too bad, but it's a second floor + http://flickr.com/photos/sweeperpix/2347692640/in/set-72157604135839886/
[10:49:51] <gfixler> then I dug a trench to lay an electrical line
[10:49:57] <gfixler> and learned that I never want to dig in LA again
[10:50:01] <gfixler> it's all adobe clay
[10:50:11] <Sweeper> :D
[10:50:13] <gfixler> it sticks to the shovel like tar
[10:50:14] <Sweeper> fun fun
[10:50:16] <fenn> just need to make a digging robot
[10:50:26] <Sweeper> ditch witch!
[10:50:27] <fenn> an auger with a built-in clay scraper
[10:50:31] <gfixler> I literally had to take each shovelfull over to the concrete patio, and bang on it many times to free the clump
[10:50:34] <gfixler> it was back-breaking
[10:50:44] <gfixler> that sounds helpful
[10:50:52] <fenn> conveyor belt is easier to set up than it might seem
[10:50:59] <gfixler> yeah?
[10:51:03] <Sweeper> sure
[10:51:06] <fenn> like i would know :P
[10:51:13] <gfixler> awe
[10:51:15] <Sweeper> if you get the belt, that is
[10:51:16] <gfixler> I thought you did
[10:51:26] <gfixler> I'm looking around for one, believe it or not
[10:51:29] <gfixler> 4' wide
[10:51:41] <Sweeper> wha? what for?
[10:51:43] <gfixler> and about an 8' loop, so it makes a 4'x4' treadmill belt
[10:51:51] <gfixler> I want to build a very flat treadmill
[10:51:55] <fenn> Sweeper: those are some cheap bricks :)
[10:51:57] <gfixler> 4'x4'
[10:52:04] <Sweeper> fenn: huh?
[10:52:04] <gfixler> with no fancy anythings
[10:52:13] <Sweeper> the ones in the wall or the planters?
[10:52:17] <gfixler> no rails, no monitor thing, nothing sticking up in front of me
[10:52:23] <gfixler> just a flat plate
[10:52:26] <fenn> they're 90% air
[10:52:33] <gfixler> whoa
[10:52:38] <gfixler> volcanic?
[10:52:43] <Sweeper> fenn: oh. of course, it's a weight thing :P
[10:53:14] <gfixler> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler/2240709701/in/set-72157603825664905/
[10:53:18] <gfixler> LA's demon dirt
[10:53:30] <Sweeper> they're actually a bit more expensive than the solid ones
[10:53:37] <gfixler> I stomped around forever, and even took the shoes off, and banged them as hard as I could, sole-to-sole
[10:53:43] <gfixler> but all that stuff on the shoe there wouldn't come off
[10:54:22] <gfixler> I feel like it could have some kind of use as an adhesive
[10:54:26] <Sweeper> the faces are surfaced and stuff, they'd look pretty classy if you got a non-lazy mason to put them in and keep the faces clean
[10:54:31] <gfixler> then I could get rich while digging my basement :)
[10:54:57] <Sweeper> well
[10:55:06] <Sweeper> you could always bake pottery!
[10:55:13] <gfixler> that's true!
[10:55:19] <gfixler> are you building an entire house out of bricks from scratch?
[10:55:34] <Sweeper> ...no :P
[10:55:54] <Sweeper> houses here are all built from brichs
[10:55:56] <Sweeper> *bricks
[10:56:15] <Sweeper> all I made were some planters
[10:56:17] <gfixler> you weren't kidding about the 90% air
[10:56:31] <gfixler> they seem like they'd break easily
[10:56:45] <gfixler> like you could punch your way through them, like the Hulk
[10:56:53] <Sweeper> nah
[10:57:00] <Sweeper> they're pretty strong
[10:57:10] <Sweeper> it's like honeycombing
[10:57:18] <gfixler> cool
[10:58:05] <Sweeper> under a small point of impact, yea, tehy hole much more easily that solid ones
[10:59:27] <Sweeper> but over the whole face of the brick, they can take probably 80% of the load, while weighing about 33%
[11:00:04] <Sweeper> so first floors get made of solid bricks, and have really thick columns, and then the upper stories are made of the hollow ones
[11:00:11] <gfixler> that's impressive
[11:04:13] <gfixler> well, it's 4AM here
[11:04:23] <gfixler> with work in the morning
[11:04:31] <gfixler> thanks for the chat, and the help all, and goodnight
[11:06:38] <micges> hello
[11:08:17] <Sweeper> hi
[11:08:27] <fenn> wow "About half of Singapore's water comes from rain collected in reservoirs."
[11:08:58] <Sweeper> sounds like someone went on a wikisafari
[11:17:20] <micges> when I made own hal module and create in it pin read/write I can't write it.
[11:18:36] <micges> changes are not visible in module
[11:31:59] <micges> ok, no mention , fixed
[12:29:23] <pjm_> archivist ! hello. I got my stepper today, the 220Ncm one, tis very nice indeed
[13:44:33] <gezr> morning yall
[13:51:33] <maddash> hewwo?
[13:51:49] <maddash> could someone tell me the pinouts for parport mode X?
[13:51:51] <gezr> kmorinin
[13:52:16] <gezr> no idea, probably listed in the mode X spec
[13:52:49] <gezr> oh heck, sorry, i was thinking i was in a different channel,
[13:53:01] <gezr> maddash: Im really sorry about that, I dont know that spec
[13:53:29] <maddash> geez.
[13:53:47] <gezr> was thinking i was in #linux
[13:54:43] <SWPadnos> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//hal_drivers.html#sec:Parport
[13:55:39] <maddash> SWPadnos: grazie!
[13:55:45] <SWPadnos> prego
[13:56:54] <maddash> er, control pins are 1,14,16,17?
[13:57:05] <SWPadnos> looks that way
[13:57:37] <SWPadnos> X seems like it's the output diagram, but the control pins are open collector
[13:57:40] <maddash> so, mode X would be equivalent to output mode plus opencollector control pins
[13:57:49] <maddash> sweet
[13:57:49] <SWPadnos> yes! :)
[14:01:44] <gezr> hmm, any of you know the proper disposal method for rust disolver, aka phosphoric acid?
[14:02:26] <gezr> read someplace that said you can wash it off onto your yard, that it will feed your grass, but I want a second opinion
[14:02:43] <cradek> gezr: I would too, if someone told me that
[14:03:12] <SWPadnos> well, it's not white phosphorous - it should be OK in small doses
[14:03:49] <SWPadnos> http://www.nutrigreenlawncare.com/default.aspx?pid=6
[14:03:54] <gezr> the msds sheets say non haz mat. hmm
[14:04:06] <SWPadnos> look at the fertilizer section of that page
[14:04:35] <SWPadnos> note that the rust or other junk in the solution may not be good for your lawn, but the phosphoric acid probably is :)
[14:04:50] <gezr> it becomes iron phosphate I guess
[14:04:56] <gezr> so the iron is good for the yard too
[14:05:09] <SWPadnos> I could ask my mother, but I think I'll pass
[14:05:25] <gezr> heh, im just wondering
[14:05:47] <SWPadnos> I'm sure she'll call me today. I'll ask if I remember
[14:05:58] <gezr> 4 more days till school starts back up, I still dont have the bike together,
[14:06:09] <gezr> oh, comp 2 and assembly this fall :)
[14:06:36] <SWPadnos> do you mean assembly language?
[14:06:39] <gezr> yeah
[14:06:47] <SWPadnos> wow. I didn't know they still taught the real stuff
[14:06:50] <gezr> compsci 2 and assembly
[14:06:53] <gezr> my school does
[14:06:55] <SWPadnos> what processor?
[14:07:08] <gezr> do not know, im hopping intel
[14:07:12] <gezr> or x86
[14:07:16] <SWPadnos> you should hope not actually
[14:07:28] <gezr> I really dont know
[14:07:41] <gezr> all the comps in the building are pretty much x86 I think
[14:07:44] <SWPadnos> what school?
[14:07:56] <SWPadnos> development boards may not be
[14:07:58] <gezr> uca, they dont have the creditation yet, but very soon
[14:08:05] <SWPadnos> uca?
[14:08:12] <gezr> central arkansas
[14:08:19] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[14:08:45] <gezr> I havent learned enough to really start work on emc yet
[14:09:07] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure school will help there, but keep learning - that's what separates us from the animals :)
[14:09:23] <cradek> 'the other animals' you mean
[14:09:29] <SWPadnos> err - yeah, right
[14:09:32] <SWPadnos> at least most of them
[14:09:37] <gezr> yeah, Ive looked at a lot of the emc code you know that, so Im hopping ill be able to help some
[14:09:39] <SWPadnos> squid seem to learn pretty quickly
[14:09:41] <cradek> yeah, the dumbest ones
[14:10:07] <gezr> you guys have running machines right?
[14:10:12] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I suppose I could rephrase that as "keep learning, we need to catch up to most of the other animals"
[14:10:21] <SWPadnos> PCs or mills? :)
[14:10:25] <gezr> mills
[14:10:39] <SWPadnos> well, it runs sometimes, but I haven't retrofitted it yet
[14:10:41] <cradek> I have two machines on emc and one not yet on emc
[14:10:58] <SWPadnos> I have to wait a while so I can get the record for longest retrofit procrastination time
[14:11:25] <gezr> I do not think ill be able to do the machining for my sugar cube mill, if I was to provide prints, and materials would you be interested in machining some things for me? namely the way surfaces?
[14:11:47] <gezr> ill even provide the cutters
[14:12:02] <gezr> aluminum is the material
[14:12:08] <SWPadnos> I'm sure that I'm unqualified to do that
[14:12:31] <SWPadnos> I'm pretty sure you need hard and smooth surfaces for ways
[14:12:46] <gezr> well yeah, but im talking 1" of travel for all axis
[14:12:57] <SWPadnos> oh, in that case you can whittle it :)
[14:13:04] <gezr> thought about it
[14:13:19] <SWPadnos> oh - I guess when you whittle metal it's called "scraping"
[14:13:20] <BigJohnT> gezr: can you design it so it's built up of seperate parts
[14:13:34] <gezr> BigJohnT: yeah totally
[14:13:46] <BigJohnT> that makes the machining easier
[14:13:55] <gezr> I just dont have a way to machine the dovetails
[14:14:10] <gezr> the scraper maybe I can but wow the setup to do that would be huge
[14:14:11] <BigJohnT> have you considered square ways?
[14:14:47] <ALS> ubuntu hangs at HALd any easy way to fix it?
[14:14:48] <gezr> yes I have, but I cant be sure well, I guess it wont matter
[14:15:22] <SWPadnos> some small machines to ponder: http://www.sherline.com/jmfJor03.htm
[14:15:37] <BigJohnT> hows that
[14:16:07] <gezr> brb
[14:17:04] <fenn> square ways are not that hard to make
[14:17:16] <SWPadnos> ALS: what Ubuntu version, and did you change anything before it started happening?
[14:17:32] <ALS> dapper
[14:17:55] <ALS> glib , cairo ,pango
[14:18:36] <ALS> pixman
[14:19:10] <gezr> back, yes, the only issue I have with a square way design, is that I will not have enough weight to keep the surfaces together
[14:19:13] <SWPadnos> there are quite a few google hits for "ubuntu hald hang"
[14:19:56] <ALS> yes but not many fix's
[14:20:05] <fenn> uh. gezr why do you need weight to hold it together?
[14:20:23] <SWPadnos> heh - sorry, can't really add much to the great and powerful Google :)
[14:20:25] <gezr> the table top for example is going ot be about 1x1" square
[14:20:37] <fenn> gezr: this is the sort of thing i'm talking about http://fennetic.net/machines/index.php?lathe_compound_modifications
[14:21:03] <SWPadnos> if you have any lifting force from cutting, the table will lift off the ways
[14:21:10] <fenn> no it won't
[14:21:19] <SWPadnos> it will if it's 1" square
[14:21:22] <gezr> fenn : this is really really small
[14:21:34] <fenn> size doesn't have anything to do with it
[14:21:49] <fenn> see the clamps holding it onto the ways?
[14:22:05] <gezr> think in terms of mounting a sugar cube to the surface using cake icing
[14:22:17] <SWPadnos> yes - if you hold it down, then it won't lift :)
[14:22:22] <fenn> those get shimmed into about a thousandth (after filing down the mating surface to just below the width of the sliding square piece)
[14:22:23] <gezr> yeah, but the T thickness would be .050"
[14:23:05] <SWPadnos> heh - nice site icon
[14:23:10] <BigJohnT> gezr: on square ways you wrap around them with the sliding part
[14:23:18] <gezr> and I dont have a way to machine that at home, well, maybe I do using a dremel type tool mounted in the lathe, or making a dremel fit on my horizontal
[14:23:37] <gezr> yeah, I know all of that, its being able to machine it at home
[14:24:04] <fenn> gezr: i did that on a drill press
[14:24:07] <gezr> hmm, the idea of a dremell mount for the mill may work out
[14:24:18] <fenn> surely you can afford $30 for a drill press
[14:24:26] <BigJohnT> with a hacksaw and a drill press you can make square ways
[14:24:26] <fenn> perhaps they have gone up to $50
[14:24:43] <gezr> you guys are giving me the ideas Ive needed, im liking this
[14:25:21] <gezr> so yeah, I can have a .1 rise, with a .025 lip or so, that would work
[14:25:35] <BigJohnT> lots of mills are made with square ways now a days
[14:25:56] <BigJohnT> gezr: do you have any drawings of your project?
[14:25:58] <gezr> huge ridigity benefit, still limiting on top speed
[14:26:01] <fenn> basically you use the drill press like a router table, bolt your piece to something big and heavy and slide it along a flat surface under the cutter, making very light cuts as the taper will come loose if it binds (throwing the chuck around the room etc)
[14:26:08] <gezr> BigJohnT: not really, just a plaster general form
[14:26:23] <BigJohnT> a picture perhaps?
[14:26:38] <fenn> but if you're going to the trouble of making this might i suggest making it a tiny bit bigger (say 3" square table)
[14:27:12] <gezr> http://picasaweb.google.com/dagezar/RaidJunk/photo#5149968001570145474
[14:28:27] <gezr> that okay?
[14:28:48] <BigJohnT> me/ waits for the picture to download dialup is slow...
[14:29:00] <skunkworks> dial up? what the heck is that?
[14:29:16] <skunkworks> is it like those 8 tracks I hear about?
[14:30:04] <gezr> its where, ants carry the bits around a dial
[14:30:17] <BigJohnT> when you live in the woods of southeast Missouri that is all you get unless you want to make Howard's company richer
[14:30:36] <gezr> your in souther Mo John?
[14:30:39] <gezr> southern that is
[14:30:42] <BigJohnT> gezr: I see you are moving the Z with the Y
[14:30:46] <gezr> yeah
[14:30:48] <BigJohnT> yes Poplar Bluff
[14:30:55] <BigJohnT> and moving the work with the X
[14:30:57] <gezr> thats near branson right?
[14:31:00] <gezr> yeah
[14:31:02] <BigJohnT> no
[14:31:13] <BigJohnT> branson is 3 hours by car
[14:31:19] <gezr> ah, so still close
[14:31:26] <gezr> im 3 from branson
[14:31:52] <BigJohnT> St Louis is 3 hours away, Memphis is 3 hours away... seems like I'm three hours from everywhere
[14:32:11] <skunkworks> BigJohnT: I ran direcway for a while.. It was better than dialup. I think it ended up being around $80 a month though
[14:32:29] <BigJohnT> Poplar Bluff is on hwy 67 just past the Ark border
[14:33:02] <BigJohnT> skunkworks: I just put up with it cause I'm too lazy to put up a tower to get highspeed
[14:33:51] <BigJohnT> gezr: I don't see why you can't build one with hand tools the design looks simple
[14:34:07] <gezr> yeah, thats what im starting to think baised on yalls input
[14:34:39] <BigJohnT> just think stacking up flat bits to get your ways and slides
[14:35:52] <BigJohnT> gezr: if I get a chance in the next few days I'll make a model in Solidworks so you can see what I'm talking about
[14:35:54] <skunkworks> I think wildblue is the latest incarnation.
[14:36:53] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT has to go back out to the shop and weld some bits together bbl
[14:37:00] <gezr> BigJohnT: that would be nice, if you can export it in something turbocad can read would be sweet
[14:37:26] <BigJohnT> I can export drawings to dxf, dwg, just about anything
[14:37:50] <BigJohnT> the model could be a jpeg or tiff file
[14:38:08] <gezr> ah yeah, true
[14:38:20] <BigJohnT> In Solidworks you make a 3D model first then make drawings from that
[14:38:24] <gezr> I have some machines here, im just limmited on what I can do
[14:38:48] <gezr> I can make super smooth surfaces with my shaper thats for sure
[14:38:51] <BigJohnT> I think if you see a picture you can work up your exact dimensions
[14:39:01] <BigJohnT> you have a shaper?
[14:39:04] <gezr> yeah
[14:39:23] <BigJohnT> you will not have any problem making your mill then
[14:39:38] <gezr> a lathe with a milling atatchment, and a horizontal mill, with a non functional 3/8 spindle for vertical milling, im missing the drive block
[14:40:17] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT really has to go back to work
[14:40:40] <gezr> go work :)
[14:42:40] <fenn> O.o if you have a shaper then wtf is all this about "someone plz help meee"
[14:43:04] <fenn> a shaper is the best possible thing for making ways (short of a way grinder)
[14:44:29] <fenn> * fenn kicks gezr in the butt as he's on his way out to the shop!
[14:45:18] <gezr> its the kicking out that concerns me
[14:45:33] <gezr> and the X Y junction
[14:45:57] <gezr> Z moves on Y, and X just moves <->
[14:46:35] <gezr> hmm, if I make it in 2 parts, and connect them together then no problem
[14:46:52] <gezr> thats not a bad idea actualy
[14:48:41] <gezr> and it was more of a matter of, is someone interested, for me to do it, is a lot of setups
[14:53:07] <kloeri> [Global Notice] Hi all. At 1600UTC today (a little more than an hour from now) freenode migrates to a new services package. Services will be gone for a few minutes during the migration but it shouldn't take too long. Thank you for using freenode!
[15:17:42] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT wishes he had a shaper
[15:21:36] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/shaper.JPG
[15:23:13] <skunkworks> or http://www.sokolik.com/images/shaper/shaperside.JPG
[15:25:45] <BigJohnT> nice iron there... is it yours
[15:39:37] <skunkworks> fathers.
[15:39:55] <skunkworks> the small one was a ginery made by my grandfather
[15:41:51] <BigJohnT> cool, you gotta love that ginery machinery that makes itself
[15:43:12] <skunkworks> yes :)
[15:43:26] <skunkworks> fenn made a modified ginery lathe
[15:43:38] <BigJohnT> cool
[15:44:12] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT back to work
[15:56:26] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all! As you are aware services will shortly be going down for a move to the new services package, all *Serv will be DOWN for a few minutes while we migrate the DB. For once I encourage you to op yourself in your channels to deal with any potential problems during the downtime. Thanks.
[16:32:43] <cradek> cool, 20% off orders >$50 at enco, just when I needed some stuff
[16:32:52] <cradek> that's better than the usual free shipping
[16:36:28] <skunkworks> huh - they sell kurt vises now.
[16:41:17] <cradek> 20% off a kurt vise is a lot of nice pizza dinners
[16:44:08] <jepler> mmmm pizza
[16:44:26] <cradek> darn, I shouldn't have said that near lunchtime
[16:44:35] <cradek> now I'll be out $10
[16:48:06] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00tKcUdtC4o
[16:48:19] <cradek> I learn something every day
[16:51:24] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all! Our Services migration is taking slightly longer due to unexpected complications, I apologise for the interruptions. Until the move is complete further information will be given as wallops, to read these please /umode +w yournick. Thank you!
[17:33:48] <christel> [Global Notice] Aaaaand we make contact! A small step for manki..oh wai-! Sorry about the delay there and thank you for your patience. Services are now back up!
[17:39:27] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi again (sorry for the spam!) -- Many of you are experiencing being kicked from +i channels despite having a invex set (+I) -- this is a isolated occurance relating to the move and should not happen again. Please direct any further questions to #freenode. Thank you
[18:44:55] <alex_joni> Namasté
[18:44:58] <lerman> cradek: I already knew that there was a sucker born every minute. :-/
[18:49:29] <alex_joni> hey ken
[19:39:49] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi Again! It's your favourite spammer.. We're going to have to restart Services and run the conversion again, thanks to those of you who found bugs and pointed out issues! This restart should be a lot quicker than the last.
[19:46:47] <alex_joni> good night all
[20:02:39] <klickrr> ok, what does HOME_OFFSET do? Let me explain, I had homeoffset at 0, HOME_SEARCH_VEL = -0.25 HOME_LATCH_VEL = -0.01 HOME_USE_INDEX = NO and HOME_IGNORE_LIMITS = YES, I ignore limits because my XHome is my X minimum limit switch. Now when I homed with the offset set to 0, it did the initial home great, then I think it thought about doing another home, but didn't really do anything, and stopped.
[20:02:55] <klickrr> But at that point, it's sitting on the limit switch, and it won't move after that
[20:03:11] <klickrr> unless i override limits of course... anyway, i was hoping to use HOME_OFFSET to move it away from there
[20:03:35] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//config_ini_homing.html
[20:03:53] <klickrr> so I set HOME_OFFSET to 0.25 and then after it homed, it bashed into my home switch and destroeyd it.... now should I set HOME_OFFSET to a negative value?
[20:04:33] <klickrr> ahh, ok, i should add a link to that from the wiki
[20:04:39] <klickrr> i was only searching the wiki
[20:05:29] <cradek> this is the online version of the docs already on your machine
[20:05:51] <cradek> I think the homing setup is in the integrator manual, it's on the menu
[20:06:09] <klickrr> i pretty much just stick with the wiki, it usually has it
[20:06:53] <jepler> there's a lot more on www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html or in the pdfs available under the Applications > CNC menu
[20:07:03] <jepler> if you aren't looking in there too, you're missing out on a lot of info
[20:07:13] <jepler> I think it amounts to several hundred pages at this point
[20:07:37] <jepler> (and could use a dedicated editor :-P)
[20:13:17] <klickrr> ok, i think i got it
[20:13:34] <klickrr> makes perfect sense as to why it smashed it after i read the documentation, go figure :)
[20:13:49] <cradek> yay, glad you figured it out
[20:14:09] <klickrr> well i gotta replace the switch and test it first, but it makes sense now
[20:14:34] <klickrr> i've never had a machine with limit switches, so it'll be a nice improvement
[20:15:07] <klickrr> my old machine wasn't strong enough to really do that much damage, but this machine scares me, so i don't want it going out of control
[20:15:23] <klickrr> plus this will setup a virtual workspace that I can see on the screen as I lay out parts, which will be nice
[20:18:50] <BigJohnT_> jepler: is that a hint?
[20:42:38] <pjm_> cool! I've just cut my 1st metal on my CNC project using EMC etc, very neat: http://pjm.dyndns.org/cnc/pocket.jpg I'm well pleased with it
[20:43:31] <K`zan> S L O W Loading...
[20:43:46] <pjm_> ah i'm also uploading to utube
[20:43:53] <pjm_> that has nearly done tho
[20:44:00] <K`zan> Very good!
[20:44:05] <pjm_> bloody bandwidth, we only get K's a sec in the UK!
[20:44:20] <pjm_> yep i'm well chuffed with the EMC, its excellent!!
[20:44:22] <K`zan> Must be nice, I am trying to decide whether to toss the Pipedream in the trash or not.
[20:44:34] <K`zan> Yep, it is as long as the hardware is up to it.
[20:44:41] <pjm_> noooooo u should persevere
[20:44:54] <K`zan> How much money do I toss after bad?
[20:45:09] <pjm_> although in some repeatability tests i have found 4 thou of slop in the Y axis which I need to try to get rid of
[20:45:15] <K`zan> Some fundamental problems with this methodology.
[20:45:17] <pjm_> not sure how i'm gonna do that though
[20:45:45] <K`zan> I got the same problem on 3 axis - 0.01 slop more or less.
[20:46:07] <pjm_> so i think first I'll try and pack up the bearing holder with some shim
[20:46:13] <pjm_> just to see what that does
[20:46:15] <K`zan> Most critical on the Z. No luck stiffening it...
[20:46:52] <K`zan> Dunno, comtemplating....
[20:47:24] <pjm_> the problem i have with my leadscrews etc is that they came from the local scrap yard
[20:47:31] <pjm_> so i have no idea of specs etc of them
[20:51:41] <K`zan> Got to be better than my allthread :)
[22:05:22] <dasvt> hello
[22:07:14] <dasvt> hello
[22:07:55] <pjm_> hi
[22:10:27] <dmess> Hi all
[22:10:51] <dasvt> whats up
[22:11:46] <dmess> not much...just got home from work...
[22:12:32] <dasvt> to nice to be here then
[22:13:08] <dmess> where are you?
[22:14:10] <dasvt> new york
[22:17:47] <dmess> i see.. im in toronto canada