#emc | Logs for 2008-05-15

[00:21:21] <eric_U> I got tired of trying to convince Cadence I needed to make a circuit board and downloaded Eagle
[00:23:49] <jepler> dmess: atk is a library concerned with "accessibility" features in user interfaces (special things needed by screen readers and the like). It's used by most gtk and gnome applications.
[01:19:58] <dmess> then why am i having dependancy violations... while trying to install stuff... though i KNOW it works
[01:21:04] <dmess> might it be looking for the bluetooth plug??
[01:24:20] <dmess> im playin to get whiteboard_0.3.4-0ubuntu_i386.deb workin'
[01:32:58] <fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0805.JPG
[01:41:04] <LawrenceG> fenn, cool
[01:45:39] <jmkasunich> hmm, now to write g-code to mill that
[01:51:26] <LawrenceG> scale up... cnc plasma cutter out of 1/4" plate, bend, cnc weld, emc lawn sculpture
[01:51:43] <jmkasunich> I was thinking more 5-axis out of solid - maybe some kind of foam
[01:51:57] <jmkasunich> heck of a demo for cradek's 5-axis max-NC
[01:52:08] <dmess> you are a TRUE cut and past junkie
[01:52:41] <jmkasunich> neat info: http://pergatory.mit.edu/2.75/2-75_Lectures.htm
[01:53:02] <dmess> to really bow minds mill the mould... ; )
[02:04:38] <jepler> dmess: the internet tells me that package is for hardy (ubuntu 8.04). if you're installing that whiteboard deb on something other than hardy, it may simply not be possible to install it. otherwise, after manually installing the .deb, use "sudo apt-get -f install" to add packages that are newly required.
[02:27:48] <fenn> i was thinking use a ballnose mill to cut grooves in flexible plastic or that paper-coated foamboard, then bend along the grooves
[02:42:34] <SWPadnos> I'm betting the measurements have to change a bit when you factor in thickness
[02:43:20] <SWPadnos> now write the G-code to cut suitable grooves with a 6-axis knife system, so when you fold it the inside and outside are nice and smooth :)
[02:46:41] <fenn> ah, a knife, that would be best
[02:48:50] <jmkasunich> http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/Pickover/mobius-cover-final.jpg
[02:56:13] <Jessica492> Hey, is Chris still in here?
[03:02:07] <jmkasunich> you mean cradek?
[03:02:15] <Jessica492> yeah
[03:02:40] <jmkasunich> (using his nick is more likely to get his attention - the IRC clients usually highlight or beep or whatever when they see that)
[03:03:31] <Jessica492> I always feel like such a geek using someone's nick...
[03:03:44] <eric_U> anyone use geda for a non-trivial electronic design
[03:03:57] <Jessica492> cradek, you around?
[03:04:13] <eric_U> Jessica492: it makes such a nice golden message on my client
[03:04:34] <Jessica492> golden?
[03:06:33] <eric_U> it color codes messages addressed to my nic
[03:06:43] <Jessica492> ahhh.
[03:06:45] <Jessica492> cool.
[03:07:20] <eric_U> jmkasunich: the lecture on modal analysis was written by my friend eric
[03:07:30] <Jessica492> I just saw a link to cradek's site on Jake von Slatt's steampunk site. I'm trying to get ahold of Jake and was wondering if chris knew him.
[03:07:57] <eric_U> he was on my Ph.D. committee for that matter
[03:08:01] <Jessica492> I just bought a steamer chest full of old analog meters. golden crap for steampunkers!
[03:08:17] <eric_U> I hate to get rid of those things
[03:08:43] <eric_U> I have an old analog volt/amp meter that I can't throw away
[03:08:50] <Jessica492> *smiles*
[03:19:07] <tomp2> old meters? -> steampunk watches http://www.eager-beavers.net/products/info.cgi?temp=TMP0&id=154
[03:19:43] <Jessica492> those are cool
[03:21:14] <eric_U> I installed fedora 8 yesterday on my computer not knowing that fedora 9 was going to be released today
[03:21:51] <eric_U> do you have to use your thumb to advance the hands on those watches tomp?
[03:24:19] <tomp2> dunno, cant read the instructions :)
[03:25:03] <eric_U> $99 750 gig hard drives at Fry's, reported to have problems with the chipset in my computer :(
[03:26:28] <Shamanj> Hi all, first time in here, how are you all?
[03:26:57] <jmkasunich> Shamanj: welcome
[03:27:47] <Shamanj> thank you sir. I just got a new computer, got ubuntu and xp all fired up on it, and my cnc hopefully should get through customs tomorrow, looking forward to really getting into it
[03:28:55] <Shamanj> the old computer is downstairs and between uni exams i'm trying to get it sorted out as a dedicated cnc machine, but i'm in exam mode so time has been short
[03:30:45] <Shamanj> i've been looking at linux cnc and want to try it, whats it like for rapid prototyping?
[03:33:54] <toastydeath> uh, you mean 3d printing or some other deposition technique
[03:33:56] <toastydeath> ?
[03:34:04] <toastydeath> or are you trying to make real prototypes on a mill or lathe
[03:34:51] <Shamanj> Real prototypes from an stl on my mill, basically getting a prototype done fast as possible. Stick in stl, tell it what tools i want to use and make it happen
[03:35:02] <toastydeath> not going to happen
[03:35:08] <Shamanj> lol doh
[03:35:12] <toastydeath> linux cnc is the control
[03:35:16] <toastydeath> the programming part is up to you
[03:35:49] <Shamanj> oh ok, now i understand, much like a mach 3 thing (Sorry to bring up a win program dont hit me)
[03:36:29] <toastydeath> uh, i use actual controls
[03:36:38] <toastydeath> that look like MS dos and cost a lot of money
[03:36:44] <toastydeath> i've never even tried emc
[03:37:11] <Shamanj> interesting
[03:37:21] <tomp2> Shamanj: stock emc understands gcode, not stl, dxf, iges etc. but you can change it if you like.
[03:37:22] <toastydeath> just use my employer's stuff.
[03:37:25] <ds2> stl is not a good format for a mill (removal process)
[03:37:41] <toastydeath> it's almost as though sterolithography is a different process!
[03:37:47] <toastydeath> wherein material is added!
[03:38:01] <toastydeath> doesn't Qcad have a cam component
[03:38:04] <toastydeath> that is open source
[03:38:07] <Shamanj> very, very interesting
[03:38:10] <toastydeath> or is that apt360/aptos
[03:38:11] <ds2> STL treats everything as a collection of triangles
[03:38:47] <ds2> start with a 3D model and dump it into an appropriate CAM package then feed the output of that to EMC
[03:40:35] <toastydeath> someone was talking about controlling a rapid prototyping machine with emc
[03:40:39] <toastydeath> but the programming was going to be a bear
[03:41:28] <fenn> Shamanj: you need a CAM program - currently there aren't any free programs that do true 3d machining
[03:41:44] <fenn> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Cam
[03:41:56] <tomp2> emc has a parser that turn gcodes into small tasks for motion and i/o. If you change that end of the source code you can make the input format different than gcode.
[03:42:29] <tomp2> thats not a small project
[03:42:34] <Shamanj> i have a cam program, but am looking at alternatives, and solidcam and camworks SUCK
[03:42:53] <fenn> toastydeath: qcad has a commercial extension that does 2.5d cam, basically tracing dxf outlines and pocketing
[03:43:51] <ds2> there was a free CAM program but the CAD program that goes with it was not free
[03:44:03] <Shamanj> lol always the way :)
[03:44:11] <fenn> aha another moebius trefoil: http://ribbonsoft.com/img/ribbonsoft.png
[03:45:01] <Shamanj> excuse me for a moment gentlemen (Afk)
[03:48:29] <Shamanj> Some of you use 3axis cnc mills yes?
[03:48:36] <jmkasunich> yes
[03:48:45] <toastydeath> yar
[03:48:46] <jmkasunich> 3-axis mills are probably the most common machines
[03:48:52] <toastydeath> ^^^^
[03:48:58] <jmkasunich> then lathes, then everything else (4- and 5-axis, etc)
[03:49:05] <Shamanj> on of the things I need to do is mill foam in some parts down to as little as 1mm, i was wondering if you think its going to tear it to pieces
[03:49:17] <toastydeath> depends on the foam
[03:49:18] <toastydeath> but no
[03:49:21] <tomp2> Moebius ? 'Le Garage Hermetique' tomp-tAG the Airight Garage ;) http://www.chivian.com/chivian/a/AirtightGarage4.html
[03:49:23] <jmkasunich> and the cutter, and etc
[03:49:23] <toastydeath> should work fine
[03:49:45] <jmkasunich> if the bubbles in the foam are the same size as the details in your parts, you won't be happy
[03:49:53] <jmkasunich> but if it is a fine grained foam, should work
[03:49:55] <Shamanj> fantastic, its fairly high density stuff, so it was a little concerning, i'll keep its rpm way up there
[03:50:06] <jmkasunich> do you know what kind of foam it is?
[03:50:16] <toastydeath> i am pretty sure there are some cutters manufactured specifically for prototyping various foams
[03:50:30] <jmkasunich> rigid and crumbly when you squish it, like florists foam? or softer?
[03:50:41] <fenn> double cut carbide bur is the best i think
[03:50:41] <jmkasunich> rigid is better ;-)
[03:51:10] <fenn> (unless it overheats)
[03:51:44] <tomp2> florist foam may be a cheap demo material
[03:51:55] <toastydeath> i've also seen videos of expanding foam poured into big cardboard boxes
[03:51:57] <fenn> i like the pink or blue stuff used for insulation
[03:52:00] <toastydeath> then strapped to a 5 axis mill
[03:52:06] <toastydeath> router, rather
[03:52:16] <jmkasunich> toastydeath: not for 1mm details tho
[03:52:19] <toastydeath> tru
[03:52:28] <fenn> blue board is fine grained, consistent, cheap, readily available, and rigid enough for most applications
[03:52:31] <jmkasunich> need small and fairly uniform bubble size
[03:52:52] <jmkasunich> fenn: I'd love to be able to use cradek's mill to make this out of bluefoam at the workshop:
[03:52:54] <toastydeath> i think there's a thread on PM about making your own machinable wax
[03:52:58] <jmkasunich> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Trefoil_knot_arb.png
[03:53:06] <jmkasunich> and then you could cast it in Al
[03:53:16] <fenn> jmkasunich: do you want the blender file?
[03:53:43] <Shamanj> sorry jm got a phone call
[03:54:16] <jmkasunich> fenn: I don't see that getting me to g-code
[03:54:17] <Shamanj> its very rigid stuff, seems quite plasticy if that a proper word, very hard to compress it, name unknown, will talk to the manufacturer
[03:54:48] <jmkasunich> Shamanj: the key requrement (I think) is that it _cuts_
[03:54:59] <jmkasunich> some softer plastics melt or bend instead of cutting
[03:55:16] <jmkasunich> I've seen polyethelyene foam (like foamed gallon milk jugs)
[03:55:23] <jmkasunich> that stuff doesn't machine well at all
[03:55:37] <fenn> jmkasunich: here's a process for converting from blender to heightmap, which can be used with img-to-gcode: http://www.junktech.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=28
[03:56:31] <Shamanj> ok guys thanks, i might head to the store and grab some endmills n stuff ;)
[03:56:45] <toastydeath> you have an endmill store?
[03:56:50] <fenn> anyway, here's the blend file; change the triangle to a circle and the nurbs surface is on layer 2: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/color_knot.blend
[03:56:51] <Shamanj> LOL I WISH
[03:56:59] <Shamanj> its just bunnings
[03:57:06] <toastydeath> who?
[03:57:09] <Shamanj> but then theres also ebay,
[03:57:16] <Shamanj> oh like a big hardware chain
[03:57:21] <toastydeath> oh
[03:57:27] <toastydeath> then there's also msc?
[03:57:39] <Shamanj> australia is kinda puss when it comes to getting good tools
[03:57:39] <toastydeath> or call your local kennametall guy
[03:57:50] <toastydeath> we do that often
[03:57:57] <toastydeath> "hello kennametall guy we need one endmill please"
[03:58:24] <Shamanj> awesome thanks i'll write that down! Are they generally quite expensive per tool?
[03:58:36] <toastydeath> niagria kennametall is like middle of the road insofar as tooling goes
[03:58:50] <Shamanj> I'm thinking of getting a set initially, so i got a bit of everything, then specialising
[03:58:52] <toastydeath> i feel they are a good choice for hsm-type dudes.
[03:59:03] <toastydeath> i would not recommend a set unless you already bought it
[03:59:05] <fenn> tomp2: is that what tAG really means?
[03:59:15] <toastydeath> i'd get endmills piecemeal from a mfg like kenna
[03:59:20] <toastydeath> to make up that set
[03:59:25] <Shamanj> ok fantastic
[03:59:33] <tomp2> thats what i always meant ;)
[03:59:39] <tomp2> my biz card
[04:00:01] <toastydeath> Niagara cutter is the top of the line in endmills and things with sharp edges
[04:00:17] <toastydeath> and sandvik is pretty much top of the line for lathe and inserted tooling, mill stuff included
[04:00:25] <ds2> is Atrax known at all?
[04:00:38] <toastydeath> who
[04:00:58] <toastydeath> are you talking about a file format or a company
[04:01:32] <toastydeath> there are a ton of little tiny tooling companies that make endmills and stuff
[04:01:35] <jmkasunich> toastydeath: I believe Shamanj is in Austrialia - is kennametal gonna have a presence there?
[04:01:37] <toastydeath> some of them are really, really good
[04:01:44] <toastydeath> some of them are crappy
[04:01:53] <toastydeath> but you won't find reviews and i certainly won't know about them because they're tiny
[04:02:01] <Shamanj> yes they do :)
[04:02:15] <toastydeath> i guess they do!
[04:02:27] <toastydeath> i didn't know or not, i just assumed they had a worldwide presence
[04:02:29] <Shamanj> well, i'll head down there now, it 2 pm maybe i'll get there before they close
[04:02:44] <toastydeath> kbai
[04:02:50] <Shamanj> Thanks for all your info guys! You've been great
[04:02:54] <Shamanj> peace out
[04:03:07] <Shamanj> (AFK
[04:04:10] <tomp2> in oz, try http://www.standaco.com.au/page.asp?parentid=72&parent2id=83
[04:08:23] <fenn> oops. earlier i meant to say "there arent any free CAM programs that do true 3d machining"
[04:08:40] <fenn> emc2 does 3d machining just fine
[04:10:14] <fenn> airtight garage reminds me of aeon flux
[04:10:34] <ds2> hmmm
[04:10:51] <ds2> enco carries quite a bit of Atrax, US Made, Carbide EM's cheap
[04:11:01] <ds2> they seem to do pretty well
[04:11:51] <toastydeath> we just bought a plunge rougher from kennametall
[04:11:56] <toastydeath> i think it was like 400 bucks
[04:12:04] <toastydeath> we were kind of shocked but it works well
[04:43:49] <Shamanj> back
[04:44:02] <Shamanj> without bits :( There is an accident on the highway no way i'll make it
[04:47:11] <Shamanj> vacuum pump arrived though, looks sweet
[04:47:22] <Shamanj> you win some you loose some
[05:26:41] <Shamanj> i'm thinking of asking my mill to cut 0.5mm stainless, anyone here cut metals occasionally?
[06:12:06] <micges> good mornig
[14:26:40] <skunkworks_> jepler: http://revver.com/video/719432/etch-a-sketch-clock/
[14:35:54] <archivist> hehe some people have too much time on their hands
[14:44:41] <skunkworks_> dave_1: how is the mazak coming?
[14:46:10] <dave_1> skunkworks ... after I changed the video driver from nv to vesa ... just fine
[14:46:44] <dave_1> I'm back up and running and fine tuned a bit and am very happy.
[14:47:10] <skunkworks_> Neat :)
[14:47:11] <dave_1> halscope has certainly gotten better and is a real help
[14:47:28] <skunkworks_> heh - what version were you runing before?
[14:47:36] <dave_1> 2.0.0
[14:47:46] <skunkworks_> oh - wow. :)
[14:48:23] <dave_1> I don't upgrade until I feel I must ... now that I have hard wire to the shop it will be easier
[14:48:56] <dave_1> 50' as the crow flies but 200 thru conduit
[14:49:52] <dave_1> way too many projects here... trying to get a muzzleloader ready for deer season.
[14:50:15] <dave_1> plus work on the Cinncinati mill and the lathe
[14:50:34] <dave_1> oh, yes ... and the surface grinder
[14:51:57] <rayh> Hi dave_1
[14:52:07] <dave_1> hi ray
[14:52:29] <dave_1> any snow for you today ;-)
[14:53:07] <dave_1> we are supposed to 88 this afternoon
[14:53:11] <rayh> Nope. Start of walleye season today
[14:53:29] <dave_1> so ... time to go fishing :-)
[14:53:30] <rayh> boats on the lake and the sun is shining.
[14:53:39] <rayh> Nah tonight.
[14:53:52] <dave_1> does that help
[14:53:56] <rayh> Sometimes I like catching not just fishing.
[14:54:01] <rayh> Yep right after dark.
[14:54:28] <dave_1> barbless ... catch and release
[14:54:30] <rayh> Glad you got that upgrade working for you.
[14:54:40] <rayh> Except for the biggest two.
[14:54:51] <dave_1> so am I ... I really stress everytime I upgrade
[14:55:02] <rayh> xanax time
[14:55:11] <dave_1> yep
[14:55:23] <rayh> Did you get IRC going down there.
[14:55:26] <dave_1> maybe just a good stiff drink
[14:55:39] <dave_1> not yet ... just thinking about it tho
[14:56:44] <rayh> For point-and-click setup
[14:57:37] <rayh> System->Software Preferences gets you to the repository listing
[14:58:15] <rayh> Then apt-get install xchat does it.
[14:58:44] <rayh> I think xchat is in universe
[14:59:06] <dave_1> If I were a bit brighter I could do it from here.
[15:00:53] <rayh> have you got an ssh server running down there?
[15:01:14] <dave_1> nope
[15:01:39] <rayh> ssh -X (dotted quad) is how I get around here.
[15:02:00] <rayh> But you've got to install the ssh server on the mazak.
[15:02:02] <dave_1> I should learn how to to that
[15:02:36] <dave_1> let's see if I can get xchat up first.
[15:03:03] <rayh> okay. I'll hang around if you want to try that now.
[15:03:44] <dave_1> I've got other things to do in the shop ... actually making some chips ... and let's hope something useful.
[15:04:35] <dave_1> we'll catch you later
[15:06:31] <rayh> skunkworks, Are you using onboard video with any of your machines?
[15:07:52] <cradek> I think all the ones I have found that work (3?) have i810 chipsets
[15:07:57] <skunkworks_> yes - the compaq 1ghz machine I use for testing has onboard video.
[15:08:30] <rayh> What breed of display does it say it uses.
[15:09:02] <skunkworks_> (it has its own memory though - not shared with the main memory) - let me look
[15:11:28] <skunkworks_> I have been adding computers here http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
[15:14:17] <skunkworks_> It is an nvidia tnt series - dapper is using the vesa driver.
[15:14:29] <rayh> Okay thanks.
[15:14:56] <cradek> my i810 machines actually have accelerated opengl that works
[15:15:02] <cradek> much better than vesa
[15:15:24] <rayh> That's good to hear.
[15:15:31] <skunkworks_> ubuntu recognises it? As an i810?
[15:15:33] <cradek> yes
[15:15:35] <skunkworks_> cool
[15:15:50] <cradek> both dapper and hardy
[15:15:53] <cradek> bbl
[15:17:42] <alex_joni> same here
[15:17:55] <alex_joni> although I think it's i9xx
[15:18:54] <skunkworks_> I have tested a few computers with onboard video recently that performed quite well.. But I didn't keep track of what they had for vidoe.
[15:29:04] <cradek> I wish I could get i8xx/i9xx video cards, but I think they are only integrated chipsets
[15:29:22] <cradek> seems like intel have the right idea concerning open source
[15:29:28] <seb_kuzminsky> i agree
[15:29:53] <seb_kuzminsky> mobos are pretty cheap these days? video card upgrade == motherboard upgrade?
[15:30:28] <jepler> cradek: ATI/AMD are making some efforts in that area as well
[15:31:21] <jepler> though it won't be until hardy+2 or +3 before people really enjoy the fruits of that, I suspect
[15:34:17] <jepler> http://ati.amd.com/developer/open_gpu_documentation.html including documents called "R5xx Family 3D Programming Guide" and "R3xx 3D Registers"
[15:36:30] <cradek> nice.
[15:37:26] <alex_joni> I don't think the closeness of the driver is the issue with ATI/Nvidia & RT-stuff
[15:38:56] <cradek> I think it certainly is an obstacle to fixing it
[15:39:27] <cradek> but it could be true that it's a hardware problem
[15:39:44] <rayh> I've not used any nvidia chipset mobos Got opinions?
[15:40:19] <seb_kuzminsky> i'm with cradek: if you have a choice, choose intel video chipsets
[15:40:20] <cradek> no experience here
[15:40:21] <jepler> rayh: I have one that seems to work but I've never used it to control hardware.
[15:41:28] <jepler> "GIGABYTE GA-M51GM-S2G AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard"
[15:42:27] <skunkworks_> from what I have seen - a lot of the newer motherboard don't share the video memory with the main memory.. I think this is the main improvement.
[15:42:41] <jepler> as far as I know this is a shared-memory-architecture system
[15:42:54] <skunkworks_> (as long as they are not bottom barrel motherboards (pcchips and such)
[15:43:11] <rayh> Shared is what I've used for quite a while but not the nvidia.
[15:44:04] <alex_joni> I think AMD plans to produce CPU+GPU chips sometimes next year
[15:44:10] <alex_joni> wonder if that iwll be any good for RT
[15:44:15] <rayh> Hey thanks guys. Gotta order boxes for fest.
[15:44:30] <jepler> rayh: this specific motherboard has a problem on hardy: it does not detect the CDROM once you've installed -- no /dev/hdc, no /dev/cdrom
[15:44:58] <alex_joni> jepler: even with stock hardy?
[15:45:13] <jepler> alex_joni: yes, I booted with the -generic kernel and still had the problem
[15:45:14] <alex_joni> I've seen some where it used /dev/sd* even if IDE
[15:45:39] <alex_joni> there is also a boot option called "all_generic_ide" which seems to help on some machines
[15:45:41] <seb_kuzminsky> sata shows up as scsi
[15:46:30] <tomp2> my eeepc came up all sd* with hardy, but thats all solidstate, so i wasnt surprised
[15:48:09] <jepler> scsi vs ide may or may not be the problem here, but the point is there's no /dev entry for a cdrom device
[15:48:56] <seb_kuzminsky> anything good in the boot-time log?
[15:50:56] <jepler> I don't have the machine handy
[15:51:30] <jepler> this is the launchpad issue that I believe is related to my problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/219761
[15:55:51] <tomp2> dupe initramfs from installer cd and reboot?
[15:56:22] <jepler> the only time I use removable media is to install the OS anyway; it's not bugging me
[15:58:38] <dave_1> rayh you still on?
[16:00:34] <rayh> Yep.
[16:01:25] <dave_1> good
[16:01:35] <dave_1> I'm running from the shop
[16:01:50] <rayh> Great.
[16:01:52] <dave_1> in fact while I'm machining
[16:01:55] <rayh> Is this xchat.
[16:02:07] <dave_1> now if I just had video ;-)
[16:02:11] <dave_1> yes
[16:02:13] <alex_joni> webcam?
[16:02:18] <dave_1> xchat-gnome
[16:02:24] <alex_joni> hi dave_1
[16:02:30] <dave_1> alex don't I wish
[16:02:34] <rayh> Okay folk. Let's try to build an mazak bomb!
[16:02:37] <alex_joni> 10$ ?
[16:02:47] <dave_1> gee thanks guys ...
[16:02:59] <alex_joni> * alex_joni thinks about tweaking G0
[16:03:13] <alex_joni> dave_1: how about a free 200% increase in motor speed?
[16:03:15] <dave_1> 'lead me not into temptation, I can get in enough trouble by myself"
[16:03:56] <dave_1> actually I limit my rapids ....
[16:04:07] <dave_1> I think it is easier on the machine
[16:04:39] <dave_1> now if you are talking steppers then I'm certain you have peoples attention
[16:06:34] <jepler> alex_joni: what crazy idea is going through your head
[16:06:34] <jepler> ?
[16:06:40] <dave_1> alex ... so what kind of magic can you apply to G00
[16:06:41] <alex_joni> dave_1: I didn't mean the motors can really do that
[16:06:42] <BigJohnT> yea
[16:07:03] <alex_joni> was just jokingly saying that one coudl tweak emc to output twice as fast feeds
[16:07:17] <rayh> dave_1 "sudo apt-get install openssh-server"
[16:07:29] <BigJohnT> hows that alex?
[16:07:35] <rayh> That gets the server so you can connect from the mac
[16:07:48] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: simply increase max_speed
[16:08:23] <BigJohnT> Oh boy, I want to go 1000IPM
[16:08:57] <alex_joni> 1000 m/min
[16:09:19] <dave_1> sure ... mach 3
[16:09:29] <alex_joni> haha
[16:09:30] <BigJohnT> mine is in inches
[16:09:37] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: mine is faster
[16:09:41] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/vostro200.png
[16:09:56] <BigJohnT> hmmmm
[16:10:00] <skunkworks_> alex_joni: it is the one that needed irqpoll
[16:10:46] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: coo
[16:11:18] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: I just sent the announcement for hardy on the users list
[16:11:38] <alex_joni> thanks to all (especially skunkworks_) for extensive testing on lots of machines
[16:12:01] <dave_1> gotta run ... can't multi-task and keep myself out of trouble on the machine
[16:12:12] <dave_1> rayh ssh is installed
[16:12:24] <rayh> Ther you go
[16:12:36] <dave_1> now off to make more chips
[16:12:38] <dave_1> tnx
[16:14:46] <skunkworks_> rayh: ^ the vostro has a intel G33/31 express video chipset - as far as I know it is shared.
[16:14:59] <skunkworks_> It runs glx gears smooooth full screen.
[16:15:08] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: fps?
[16:15:47] <alex_joni> * alex_joni runs home.. brb
[16:15:50] <skunkworks_> around 200
[16:16:08] <skunkworks_> full screen
[16:18:23] <rayh> How about Intel GMA 950. I see that nowadays quite a bit.
[16:23:07] <skunkworks_> don't know if I have run across that..
[16:25:18] <jepler> if it was good for realtime, this would be a neat little machine for emc: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856101065 (assuming you can get ubuntu installed from USB somehow; doesn't seem to have an internal cdrom / dvd)
[16:25:40] <jepler> if you care to void your warranty, you could even stick in a Mesa or other PCI board
[16:26:10] <jepler> I guess modern machines boot from USB CDROM just fine
[16:26:59] <rayh> You read the reports on that page also.
[16:27:21] <jepler> I skimmed a few of them; did you see a red flag?
[16:27:54] <rayh> Just that about voiding the warranty thing.
[16:28:14] <jepler> oh -- actually i saw the sticker on the photos first
[16:29:32] <skunkworks_> we have some shuttles here. I don't know.. they are packed in pretty good.. we have had issues with heat.
[16:30:04] <rayh> darn limit 20 per customer on that shuttle
[16:30:18] <jepler> dang, ray, how many were you going to order?
[16:30:50] <rayh> not that many
[16:32:48] <rayh> I'd guess we would have pretty good luck with the shuttle. It has foresight Linux pre-installed.
[16:33:09] <cradek> Graphics Memory: Shared 224MB Video Memory
[16:33:16] <cradek> (out of 512MB)
[16:33:34] <cradek> I'd be extremely wary about realtime performance
[16:33:55] <cradek> but if you only want to run sim, they'd be perfectly fine
[16:34:00] <cradek> (for training)
[16:34:24] <cradek> bbl
[16:35:44] <skunkworks_> I have a suttle here.. I will see what on-board video it has.
[16:35:50] <rayh> I'd guess that the BIOS would allow setting the amount of shared memory. All of mine here do.
[16:39:02] <rayh> No CDROM on that. How about installing Ubuntu? USB? Net? or...
[16:40:48] <cradek> I hear USB cdroms exist
[16:43:08] <cradek> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817186102
[16:43:19] <cradek> I think you have to make them by getting a box like this and sticking a cdrom in it
[16:43:28] <cradek> note: I have not done this
[16:48:17] <alex_joni> cradek: I use one all the time
[16:48:20] <alex_joni> actually a DVD writer
[16:48:28] <alex_joni> works great
[16:49:35] <ds2> ;
[17:07:57] <cradek> but booting from it may be a different matter, right?
[17:08:22] <rayh> * rayh thinks cradek reads his mind.
[17:08:31] <alex_joni> well.. depending how new the mobo is
[17:08:46] <alex_joni> stuff that's 1 year old or newer should all be fine I think
[17:10:43] <alex_joni> SF is again overly "fast" today..
[17:12:09] <cradek> I haven't had a 1-year-old-or-newer computer for a long time...
[17:13:11] <alex_joni> even if you do.. it's only for a year
[17:13:22] <rayh> Don't thank Chris! Send money to ....
[17:14:14] <rayh> We did set up USB boot on the MiniITX boxes so I know that bios has it.
[17:14:39] <rayh> After the boot though you've got to switch off legacy USB support.
[17:15:06] <alex_joni> screws with RT?
[17:15:17] <rayh> Yea big time.
[17:15:58] <rayh> I'll post some numbers here as soon as I'm done with a compile on it.
[17:16:28] <rayh> Forgot how slow a compile is on a 1g processor.
[17:16:57] <alex_joni> heh
[17:28:55] <alex_joni> hmm.. did any of you get my email to the users list?
[17:28:59] <alex_joni> sent it > 1h ago
[17:29:18] <BigJohnT> I only get that at home
[17:30:14] <archivist> * archivist sees nothing on gmail yet
[17:30:54] <rayh> Not yet.
[17:30:56] <jepler> alex_joni: I don't see a recent message from you on the users list. last I have is from Rob Jansen, "Last time I made a .deb file it was called .rpm (on RedHat)"
[17:31:04] <jepler> probably sourceforge is taking a nap
[17:31:25] <alex_joni> same here
[17:31:48] <rayh> gone walleye fishing;)
[17:31:48] <jepler> I don't recommend sending it 12 more times
[17:32:03] <alex_joni> jepler: lol
[17:32:40] <jepler> .. limit yourself to 6 or fewer times, including the original submission
[17:32:43] <alex_joni> it's probably content-related
[17:33:10] <alex_joni> last time I sent this (to the devel list) it also took close to a day
[17:33:32] <rayh> Darn Hardy gets more like that other os every day Another restart required.
[17:34:08] <alex_joni> rayh: they only say that...
[17:34:35] <alex_joni> I never really do restart.. I keep working the shut down my machine when I finish
[17:34:57] <rayh> Ah I don't shut mine down.
[17:34:59] <skunkworks_> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/testing/shuttle2ghz.png
[17:35:09] <skunkworks_> crap - covered up the video.
[17:35:37] <skunkworks_> it is an intel 865 integrated video
[17:36:16] <rayh> Not bad.
[17:36:34] <alex_joni> SMI?
[17:37:07] <skunkworks_> no issues. But I have seen that the smi sometimes doesn't show its head until the install for some reason.
[17:37:18] <skunkworks_> (This was just the livecd boot)
[17:37:45] <skunkworks_> ran it for a good 20 minutes
[17:40:36] <skunkworks_> alex_joni: the hardy email showed up.
[17:40:43] <alex_joni> cool :)
[17:41:26] <skunkworks_> [Emc-users] EMC2 on Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron LTS - officialannouncement
[17:42:40] <alex_joni> yeah.. here too
[17:53:37] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58133
[17:54:19] <jepler> can someone who knows more about it update this page to reflect how to get the SMI "fix" on Hardy? (please leave the text that applies to Dapper, as well) http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?FixingSMIIssues
[17:56:03] <skunkworks_> I have only loaded the rtai_smi.ko manually. (insmod rtai_smi.ko) I was planning on trying to do it by editing the rtapi.conf on hardy but have not tried it yet.
[17:56:53] <skunkworks_> what is nice - is that it is already on the system - so you don't need to pull it off the wiki and put it in the module directory)
[17:57:22] <alex_joni> jepler: I thought I already did that a while ago
[17:58:09] <alex_joni> "For Hardy you don't need to compile or install it, it's already there (go to step 6)."
[17:58:15] <alex_joni> might not be obvious enough
[17:58:46] <jepler> did I? I was just skimming for references to Dapper and guessing where it might need to be updated for Hardy
[17:58:51] <rayh> bbiab
[17:58:54] <jepler> I'm 95% certain I've never had to use smi
[18:00:00] <alex_joni> I'll update www.linuxcnc.org now
[18:04:57] <rayh_> rayh_ is now known as rayh
[18:48:36] <tomp2> alex_joni: you have no fear! should I ignore all the pub key warnings when using http://www.linuxcnc.org/hardy/emc2-install.sh?
[18:49:13] <alex_joni> tomp2: you shouldn't get any
[18:49:20] <jepler> tomp2: paste or pastebin the warning
[18:49:22] <alex_joni> the gpg import might have failed
[18:49:29] <jepler> like alex says, it's surprising that you would get one
[18:49:43] <ALS> Hello Hardy Heron hung on install at 15% detecting file systems anyone else have a problem?
[18:50:15] <ALS> I also got that warning on my dell alex
[18:50:15] <tomp2> will xfer the errs, its on another box
[18:50:59] <skunkworks_> als: what is the hardware?
[18:51:01] <alex_joni> ALS: was that the live cd from linuxcnc.org? or the default Ubuntu CD?
[18:51:47] <ALS> compaq 533 Ath ,
[18:51:57] <ALS> Emc live
[18:52:14] <alex_joni> ALS: got enough memory?
[18:52:41] <ALS> trident blade 3d
[18:52:44] <ALS> 512
[18:53:46] <skunkworks_> first try? or has it done it more than once?
[18:54:38] <ALS> I see some others on the forms with same prob and same spot with earlier vertions
[18:54:38] <ALS> once
[18:54:38] <ALS> versions
[18:55:02] <skunkworks_> right - I have had dapper do that a few times.. Second time around it works great.
[18:55:46] <alex_joni> tomp2: try running the emc2-install.sh script from a terminal
[18:55:46] <ALS> ya I'll give it go again
[18:55:50] <alex_joni> and look for gpg errors
[18:56:08] <alex_joni> ALS: the other way to install it is starting with a working 8.04 (stock) install..
[18:56:49] <ALS> witch way would you suggest
[18:57:45] <alex_joni> ALS: first try again
[18:57:53] <ALS> ok
[18:58:07] <ALS> thanks
[19:01:58] <tomp2> yes, gpg failed, yes, run from terminal, here's paste http://pastebin.ca/1019297
[19:02:30] <tomp2> only run from terminal, and still running ;)
[19:02:51] <alex_joni> gpg: keyserver receive failed: general error
[19:03:10] <alex_joni> tomp2: sounds like either the server is down, or you can't reach it..
[19:03:38] <tomp2> what about 'unsafe permissions on gpg.conf' ?
[19:03:39] <alex_joni> hmm.. on second thought it might be your gpg.conf
[19:03:45] <alex_joni> check the permission
[19:03:47] <jepler> I just ran the --recv-key and it was OK, but I also didn't have a gpg.conf warning
[19:03:48] <alex_joni> I think it must be 600
[19:03:58] <tomp2> biab
[19:04:20] <alex_joni> gpg: external program calls are disabled due to unsafe options file permissions <- that might mean it doesn't even attempt to download the key
[19:04:57] <jepler> yes that's exactly right
[19:05:07] <jepler> after "chmod 777 ~/.gpg" I get a similar error
[19:05:14] <tomp2> alex_joni: perms are 100600
[19:05:35] <alex_joni> 100600 ?
[19:05:40] <jepler> it's actually the permission on the directory ~/.gnupg, not the file ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf, in my case at least
[19:06:31] <jepler> might try adding the flag --no-permission-warning in the script, to both invocations of gpg
[19:07:29] <jepler> it would be nice to understand why that directory got created with incorrect permission, though
[19:07:36] <tomp2> mc reports 'gpg.conf Permission (octal 100600) Owner tomp Groups tomp '
[19:07:47] <tomp2> check the directory perms now...
[19:07:53] <cradek> 100600 makes no sense to me
[19:08:00] <alex_joni> tomp2: use ls -a ~/.gnupc/
[19:08:05] <alex_joni> tomp2: use ls -a ~/.gnup/
[19:08:07] <alex_joni> tomp2: use ls -a ~/.gnupg/
[19:08:10] <alex_joni> crap.. can't type
[19:09:02] <jepler> cradek: S_IFREG 0100000 regular file
[19:09:29] <cradek> huh
[19:11:02] <tomp2> ls -l ~/.gnupg shows ... -rw------- 1 tomp tomp 28 2008-04028 16:44 gpg.conf
[19:11:37] <alex_joni> how about .gnupg/ as a folder ?
[19:11:46] <tomp2> bbiab
[19:11:52] <jepler> tomp2: it is the permission on the directory that we're enquiring after. In the shell, you could see it with 'ls -ld ~/.gnupg' or with the commandline alex_jono suggested (as the "." entry)
[19:16:07] <tomp2> ls -l -d -a ~/.gnupg drwx------ 2 tomp tomp 4096 2008-0505 13:25 /home/tomp/.gnupg
[19:16:44] <alex_joni> that's odd
[19:17:16] <tomp2> safe to ignore? it's asking me to reboot
[19:17:40] <tomp2> (script finished)
[19:18:37] <alex_joni> tomp2: seems right, but I'd still run this:
[19:18:39] <alex_joni> sudo chown yourusername:yourusername ~/.gnupg
[19:18:39] <alex_joni> chmod 700 ~/.gnupg
[19:18:39] <alex_joni> chmod 600 ~/.gnupg/*
[19:19:25] <tomp2> will do
[19:21:36] <tomp2> alex_joni: the 3 commands ran fine, should i re-run the script as a test?
[19:21:41] <alex_joni> yeah
[19:21:44] <tomp2> k
[19:21:55] <alex_joni> tomp2: or you can look inside the script, and pick out the gpg line
[19:22:18] <alex_joni> gpg --keyserver pgpkeys.mit.edu --recv-key 8F374FEF
[19:22:46] <tomp2> oh
[19:23:14] <tomp2> well i got 'warning unsafe....' again before looking at keys, will let it ride out now
[19:27:46] <tomp2> gpg --keyserver pgpkeys.mit.edu --recv-key 8F374FEF
[19:27:47] <tomp2> gpg -a --export 8F374FEF | sudo apt-key add -
[19:28:13] <tomp2> and since it had all the files, the script ended quick
[19:28:59] <alex_joni> so no more warnings?
[19:29:06] <tomp2> no, same warnings
[19:29:22] <alex_joni> are you running as tomp ?
[19:29:31] <tomp2> lemme look again, saw the 1st ... yes as tomp
[19:29:37] <tomp2> i go look now
[19:31:06] <alex_joni> tomp2: can't you irc from that machine? makes it a bit easier :)
[19:32:21] <tomp2> will try irc there... doh!
[19:34:21] <tom1> ello alex_joni
[19:34:24] <alex_joni> tom1: hi ;)
[19:34:39] <alex_joni> can you "touch ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf" ?
[19:35:41] <tom1> yes, did that now
[19:35:52] <alex_joni> did it change the timestamp?
[19:36:30] <tom1> yes -rw------- 1 tomp tomp 28 2008-05-15 14:35 /home/tomp/.gnupg/gpg.conf
[19:36:38] <alex_joni> tom1: you don't happen to have a root shell.. right?
[19:36:51] <tom1> correct just a terminal from the user menu
[19:36:53] <alex_joni> it's $ in there, not #.. ?
[19:37:04] <tom1> tomp@stepperBox:
[19:37:10] <alex_joni> * alex_joni feels lost.. no more bright ideas..
[19:37:26] <tom1> oops clipped the important bit tomp@stepperBox:~$
[19:37:39] <tom1> tomp@stepperBox:~$ no problem alex_joni, safe to reboot?
[19:37:48] <alex_joni> yes
[19:37:54] <tom1> k bbiab
[19:37:57] <alex_joni> tom1: this is probably only a nuisance
[19:38:06] <tom1> damn nuisance!
[19:38:10] <alex_joni> as you'll keep getting the same error message on updates
[19:38:28] <tom1> rainman 'doesnt bother me ' ;)
[19:40:48] <skunkworks_> If jessica shows back up... People seem to like this guys spindle.. http://cgi.ebay.com/TB-350S-High-Speed-Precision-Spindle-CNC-Routers_W0QQitemZ180238323009QQihZ008QQcategoryZ57028QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[19:46:40] <alex_joni> tom1: an alternative is to get the key from pgp.mit.edu via webbrowser and install it with apt-key add (manually)
[19:46:43] <alex_joni> http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x8F374FEF
[19:47:06] <tom1> will do, thx
[19:49:19] <alex_joni> but I still don't think it's right..
[19:52:00] <tom1> the system is empty, i dont mind starting over if it help
[19:52:21] <jepler> alex_joni: there's nothing we can do about bad permissions on ~/.gnupg; either that's a preexisting problem that tom1 caused somehow, or gpg itself creates it wrong. Maybe there's an ubuntu bug to be filed here, and maybe a workaround (like --no-permission-warning) to put in our script..
[19:53:33] <jepler> or include the gpg public key as a "here document" in the install script
[19:54:23] <alex_joni> jepler: yeah, but the stuff tomp pasted looks good
[19:54:29] <alex_joni> so I'm not sure what the issue is..
[19:54:36] <alex_joni> * alex_joni blames tomp for the record ;)
[19:55:00] <tom1> santa will know :(
[19:55:07] <alex_joni> crap..
[19:56:04] <alex_joni> tom1: can you pastebin the output from "export" ?
[19:56:12] <tom1> i dont mind wiping it, i get sluggish video response with Matrox MGA Millenium and emc isnt happy at all (used to be fine on 6.06 )
[19:56:14] <tom1> will do
[19:56:39] <alex_joni> tom1: if it was fine on 6.06.. by all means, stick to 6.06 ;)
[19:56:43] <jepler> option the thirteenth: use a newly-created temporary directory for gnupg --homedir
[19:58:19] <alex_joni> not sure that's a good idea
[19:59:22] <tom1> http://pastebin.ca/1019371
[20:19:14] <tom1> sudo gpg --list-keys gives same gpg: WARNING: unsafe ownership on configuration file `/home/tomp/.gnupg/gpg.conf'
[20:19:20] <tom1> thinking re-install
[20:19:50] <alex_joni> well.. it's ok that it goves that with sudo
[20:19:54] <alex_joni> it should only work without
[20:20:00] <alex_joni> s/goves/gives/
[20:33:18] <tomp2> ok, i saw the explanation of the desktop icon asking for password and assumed i'd need to sudo the cmd.
[20:33:57] <tomp2> good, i didnt wipe it, i tired the updates to see what might happen on this scratch system :)
[20:34:07] <tomp2> s/tired/tried
[20:35:39] <tomp2> my fault, sorry :-[
[20:36:01] <SWPadnos> you must be tried :)
[20:36:23] <klickrr> hehe
[20:48:29] <alex_joni> tomp2: so it's fine without the sudo?
[20:53:28] <tomp2> ok, will try that now
[20:55:05] <tomp2> its got 20 minutes to go on the updates, so i will look at how to save the sh script to desktop ( never done such a thing b4 )
[20:55:27] <tomp2> i 'spose its just preferences in firefox
[20:56:33] <SWPadnos> right-click, save as
[20:56:39] <SWPadnos> or "save link as"
[20:57:11] <SWPadnos> (or maybe sometimes "save link target as")
[20:57:33] <tomp2> doesnt that always go to the path in preferences ( usually not Desktop )? I'll set it to save & ask always, there!
[20:57:41] <jepler> the linuxcnc.org used to give excruciating step-by-step instructions on how to do this
[20:57:52] <SWPadnos> yep - you can set it to aleays some spot or always ask
[20:57:55] <jepler> saving to desktop is the default
[20:58:01] <jepler> or was in 6.06
[20:58:14] <SWPadnos> it is, until you change that preference :)
[20:58:17] <jepler> well, that
[20:59:09] <jepler> the full instructions are still at http://linuxcnc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=4&lang=en but not at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2
[21:00:02] <tomp2> now for something completely different , if these are not too expensive, they might make a nice small demo machine http://www.igus.com/show_dw.asp
[21:00:12] <tomp2> looking for pricinf now
[21:02:45] <tomp2> the instructions from the email positing look the same, so will try w/o sudo soon
[21:06:15] <BigJohnT> so is there a huge traffic jam on /hardy/ubuntu today?
[21:13:42] <ALS> this time I get error burn cd slower or bad hard drive or move cooler place?
[21:14:17] <ALS> hardy install ^^^
[21:15:07] <SWPadnos> did you get an error while burning, or when you tried to boot/check the CD contents?
[21:15:34] <ALS> installing
[21:15:44] <ALS> it boots ok
[21:15:47] <SWPadnos> check the md5sum of the ISO image, then the disc
[21:15:58] <ALS> it matched
[21:16:07] <SWPadnos> did you check the disc itelf?
[21:16:10] <SWPadnos> itself
[21:16:17] <ALS> didn't check the disc
[21:16:47] <SWPadnos> ok, `dd if=/dev/<watever your CDROM is> | md5sum` should do the trick
[21:17:21] <ALS> after booting it?
[21:17:42] <SWPadnos> oh, well you can also select the "check media" boot option
[21:18:03] <ALS> ok
[21:18:15] <SWPadnos> if you want to boot it, but that command would work on a running system (version doesn't really matter - wherever you burned it would do, unless it was Windows)
[21:18:47] <ALS> it was :(
[21:18:55] <SWPadnos> then boot the CD ;)
[21:19:16] <ALS> i'll be back
[21:19:22] <SWPadnos> ok
[21:38:21] <tomp2> alex_joni: yes, running it that way works with no errors, the key was retrieved no problems, sorry!
[21:42:02] <alSMT_> I checked the cd for errors and ran md5sum i think?
[21:42:09] <alSMT_> dd: reading `/dev/cdrw': Input/output error
[21:42:09] <alSMT_> 1423416+0 records in
[21:42:09] <alSMT_> 1423416+0 records out
[21:42:09] <alSMT_> 728788992 bytes (729 MB) copied, 215.944 s, 3.4 MB/s
[21:42:09] <alSMT_> 2900678ecf64cdfbf3f0a7ebd7871d14 -
[21:43:31] <alSMT_> the check for errors said non found
[21:43:46] <cradek> you can trust the check that you can run after you boot it
[21:43:57] <cradek> reading the md5sum of a burnt cd rarely works right
[21:44:03] <alSMT_> ok
[21:44:18] <SWPadnos> it worked for me on that image, so I figured it must be unviversal these days :)
[21:45:17] <alSMT_> it installed on this dell so I tried it on my compaq
[21:47:04] <alSMT_> what should i do start the search for this type of problem?
[21:47:20] <cradek> what type?
[21:47:55] <SWPadnos> it's likely a bad burn
[21:48:10] <alSMT_> burn cd slower bad hard drive move to cooler place error
[21:48:27] <SWPadnos> if the media check from the booted CD doesn't work, then you definitely need to do something about the burn process
[21:48:39] <alSMT_> I reburned a new copy at 8X same thing
[21:48:51] <SWPadnos> how old is the drive?
[21:48:54] <alSMT_> the cd checked out
[21:48:55] <cradek> I thought you said the media check passed
[21:48:59] <SWPadnos> ah
[21:49:12] <SWPadnos> missed that I guessI
[21:49:18] <SWPadnos> err - you knw
[21:49:20] <SWPadnos> know
[21:49:26] <alSMT_> witch one HHD or CD
[21:50:07] <alSMT_> the HD is 80 G not to old
[21:51:09] <alSMT_> I don't want to move to cooler place!
[21:51:17] <SWPadnos> so at this point we know the disc couldn't install (though it did boot) on one machine, but it has passed the CD media check?
[21:51:52] <alSMT_> yes and that same disc installed on my dell
[21:51:52] <jymm> that media check is worthless... I've had it past and still fubar the install
[21:52:17] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I haven't seen your bug reports ...
[21:52:26] <jymm> But, if you DL and burn at 4x speed, they usually work fine.
[21:52:40] <jymm> SWPadnos: and you never will, unless you copy and paste from in here
[21:52:42] <cradek> the media check reads and checksums every file on the cd. I can't think of a better test.
[21:53:02] <cradek> it verifies that the CD is readable AND has the proper contents in each file
[21:53:12] <lerman> SWPadnos: cradek : I just put myself on the list as attending EMC Fest 2008. It comes at a bad time for me, but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to finally meet you guys.
[21:53:16] <jymm> I'm just telling you what I've come across.
[21:53:32] <jymm> and what I did to work around it.
[21:53:34] <SWPadnos> lerman, cool. it'll be good to see you there
[21:53:39] <cradek> lerman: cool, it will be nice to meet you
[21:53:40] <alSMT_> wish I was going
[21:54:12] <cradek> I think the emc part will be bigger this year. I hope we can get something done :-)
[21:54:41] <lerman> I can only stay til Thursday, but I'm sure I'll have fun. I'll be flying to Chicago and driving from there.
[21:55:16] <cradek> what day are you getting to chicago?
[21:55:34] <lerman> Sunday at 9:30 AM MDW airport.
[21:56:20] <SWPadnos> about right for me to swing by and pick you up on the way
[21:56:24] <cradek> ah darn, I bet some others will drive through on Saturday
[21:56:25] <SWPadnos> only a day late :)
[21:56:34] <cradek> yeah, that's too bad
[21:57:08] <SWPadnos> actually it's a little early anyway - I don't think I'll get from Cleveland to Chicago by 9:30 AM
[21:57:23] <SWPadnos> or Toledo - somewhere or other
[21:57:45] <lerman> SWPadnos: I'll probably want a car, anyway. Although it's probably going to be expensive because of the large number of miles.
[21:58:00] <SWPadnos> should be unlimited miles - it's just the fuel that gets you
[21:58:15] <cradek> that's easy if you just have the sense to get a small car
[21:58:34] <cradek> (if you can rent such a thing!)
[21:59:22] <lerman> I've go to go to class now. I just thought I'd let you guys know. (You can't tell I'm excited, can you?)
[21:59:37] <cradek> it'll be fun this year!
[21:59:39] <lerman> I'll see you.
[22:00:09] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is off to bed..
[22:00:11] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:00:21] <cradek> bye alex
[22:00:25] <SWPadnos> see you
[22:02:53] <tomp2> thx, bye
[22:06:44] <tomp2> all the rentacar places are filled with big cars they will upgrade you to for 'free'. DONT, nobody wants them because of the gas price (2.9x in illinois for reg), insist on the little car you booked.
[22:08:15] <ds2> I will gladly take gas at 2.9x
[22:08:30] <ds2> please send a 2000G tanker of it west
[22:09:15] <cradek> 3.7x here today
[22:11:43] <SWPadnos> yeah - the rental place in Madison had their fueling option at $7.50 a gallon or so
[22:11:58] <SWPadnos> only about $3.80 street price
[22:17:57] <dmess> walleye.. thats pickeral for me... im heading out sat am too
[22:22:14] <tomp2> you're right, my mind refuses to believe gas can be 4$/gal , it's 3.9x in illinois, ( and water was 2$/gal at the 7-11 )
[22:23:21] <dmess> get used to it.. the US war machine needs $$$
[22:24:29] <dmess> can YOU boycotte gas
[22:25:35] <tomp2> well, i bought an electric bicycle
[22:25:49] <fenn> me got a human-powered bicycle
[22:26:24] <tomp2> it's electric assist, so i'm only borg
[22:27:03] <fenn> i'd like a turbo-diesel series electric three wheel motorcycle, but i think i'm gonna have to make one
[22:29:25] <fenn> something along these lines http://fennetic.net/pub/sketches/tadpole-0.1-web.jpg
[22:30:14] <dmess> i want turbine electric/hydrostatic drive... and will deffinitly have to build it
[22:30:38] <fenn> similar concept with turbine engine instead http://fennetic.net/pub/sketches/tadpole-plane-0.2-web.jpg
[22:31:19] <tomp2> look up chang-ahama ? chang-ahama, no, the chang-azuki ! http://www.psychicworldusa.com/Diesel_Bike/Suzuki.html
[22:31:48] <dmess> too round.... needs to be a teardrop shape
[22:32:12] <fenn> dmess: the roundness is because it has wings on the sides
[22:32:30] <fenn> (short stubby wings)
[22:32:33] <dmess> does it fly??
[22:32:36] <fenn> dunno
[22:32:53] <fenn> i've seen model R/C boats fly..
[22:33:27] <dmess> still yhink teardrop... and put cranks for the wings
[22:33:32] <fenn> if you get thrust*lift/drag/weight high enough it'll fly
[22:33:41] <fenn> cranks? like fold out wings?
[22:33:48] <dmess> yers
[22:33:51] <dmess> yes
[22:34:50] <dmess> l/g at the root of teardrop and flex wing
[22:35:06] <dmess> brb
[22:37:35] <fenn> re: diesel moto, 104mpg is ok for a quick hack, but not great in comparison to an engineered solution
[22:37:55] <fenn> aptera gets 330mpg or thereabouts (pure electric though)
[22:39:50] <fenn> 230mpg diesel prototype
[22:40:23] <ds2> at what RMS speed?
[22:40:58] <fenn> 55mph
[22:51:57] <dmess> we wont be winning against the new bugatti... electronically limited to 407 kph
[22:53:06] <dmess> with your foot down you have an out and return to the gas station of 12 minute on 100L of fuel
[22:53:08] <fenn> heh i dont know if it would handle too well at 407kph
[22:53:18] <fenn> not enough wings
[22:55:02] <dmess> the brakes are GARANTEED to stop you fro 402 k to 0 in 10 seconds.... you will still cover close to km while ON the brakes TO thE MAX
[22:55:09] <fenn> but, you could buy approximately 50 of them for one bugatti
[22:55:29] <dmess> try 500
[22:55:39] <fenn> 500? its 1.5million right?
[22:56:04] <dmess> tis 1.23 million euro.. (about 2 million US)
[22:58:03] <dmess> it is the fastest production thing on wheels..... the kawisaki hyabussa does 0 to 100 in 2.8 it does it in 2.8... 17 seconds to 300 kmp
[22:58:32] <dmess> 2.5.. sorry
[22:59:04] <dmess> 1001 hp and a 7 speed gearbox
[22:59:48] <dmess> fenn whats your e-mail.... it is an engineering = mona lisa
[22:59:59] <fenn> fenn at sdf.lonestar.org
[23:01:18] <fenn> hmm 0 to 100 in 2.5 sec is 1.13*gravity
[23:02:35] <fenn> must have sticky tires
[23:02:47] <dmess> yeah.. do the mth on the braking... thats were i went WOW
[23:03:48] <dmess> without seat belts the drive SHOULD launch thru the windshield
[23:12:56] <dmess> tires are specially made for THIS car
[23:15:33] <ds2> is the body guaranteed to survive during a 402k braking to 0 in 10sec?
[23:19:54] <dmess> its mostly carbon fiber so probably
[23:21:31] <dmess> understand it is electronically limmited to 407 kmp.. some jarhead had it in restricted....
[23:21:55] <dmess> unrestricyed
[23:43:41] <dmess> i give up on this keyboard
[23:53:35] <tomp2> a real mini-cooper with a hayabusa engine :) http://www.zcars.org.uk/mini/conversion.htm
[23:53:51] <tomp2> not the bmw cooper thing