#emc | Logs for 2008-04-02

[00:05:17] <LawrenceG> anybody got ekiga set up and running? testing a new webcam
[00:51:45] <toastyde1th> uh guys quick question
[00:51:58] <toastyde1th> how do you set the angular feed rate on a rotary axis
[00:52:31] <toastyde1th> just in general
[00:53:04] <toastyde1th> oh i guess that doesn't matter in inverse time
[01:09:31] <toastyde1th> does anyone program 4th axis regularly
[01:09:37] <toastyde1th> by hand, that is
[01:09:51] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC hand on the mouse that is.
[01:24:11] <dmes1> inverse time.... should take care of that
[01:24:59] <toastyde1th> i think one of the guys on the forums doesn't understand inverse time and it confused the shit out of me
[01:25:05] <toastyde1th> MOMENTARY BRAIN FART
[01:25:22] <dmes1> hard calculations... i have a rotary feed .xls file
[01:25:43] <dmes1> why??
[01:26:08] <toastyde1th> Evan on homeshopmachinist is trying to mill involute cutters
[01:26:27] <dmes1> its jus how long i want it to take to get there... not before
[01:26:33] <toastyde1th> yar
[01:26:56] <dmes1> define involut cutter??
[01:26:59] <toastyde1th> gear cutter
[01:27:34] <dmes1> its doable...
[01:27:38] <toastyde1th> he wants to decouple the A axis and make it pretend it's a spindle while controlling XYZ independantly
[01:27:57] <toastyde1th> which sounds to me like he is confused on what inverse time does
[01:28:14] <toastyde1th> but i could be wrong and I could be confused on what he wants
[01:28:28] <toastyde1th> whutevs i will find out soon enoguh
[01:28:30] <toastyde1th> *enough
[01:28:31] <dmes1> no need to keep the A and work ITS max rpm to make it work
[01:29:16] <toastyde1th> what i mean is it sounds like he's trying to do it in IPM
[01:29:37] <toastyde1th> obv. won't work that way
[01:29:39] <dmes1> yes.. and it WONT work that way..
[01:30:05] <toastyde1th> so i posted some questions that will clear up if it is he who is confused, or i
[01:30:56] <dmes1> calculated distance of cut.. find time.. tell machine DONT get there till this much time has elapsed...
[01:31:12] <toastyde1th> yar
[01:31:43] <dmes1> is that good??
[01:31:54] <toastyde1th> no, i am agreeing with you
[01:32:17] <dmes1> si... thats spanish
[01:33:10] <toastyde1th> haha.
[01:34:22] <cradek> toastyde1th: in regular time mode, it's F word on rotaries is just degrees/second
[01:34:48] <dmes1> 5 axis stuff relies ALOT on inverse time ... if you dont understant it VERY wel to start with you become a # junkie and copy and paste
[01:35:24] <cradek> yep especially when moving two systems together (linear and rotary) inverse mode is your friend
[01:35:50] <dmes1> where did the minutes go.... i have a very important part with
[01:36:07] <dmes1> +/- 5 minutes
[01:38:23] <dmes1> but you still have to program inverse time into the code...
[01:38:40] <dmes1> or post..
[01:40:32] <dmes1> i have s/ware to feed the rate of change.. but MOST machines wont handle it.. even with their limits programmed as max feeds
[01:41:01] <toastyde1th> crazy stuff
[01:43:28] <dmes1> fun stuff.... i enjoyed being factory...
[02:13:42] <JymmmEMC> well shit.... I think I need to practice my polymer shaping skills
[02:13:51] <SWPadnos> no shit sherlock
[02:14:02] <SWPadnos> I mean - hi
[02:14:45] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: well, the longer it takes me to do that, the longer it takes to borrow the machine
[02:14:50] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:15:03] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: motor connector plate
[02:15:07] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:15:19] <SWPadnos> angle iron
[02:15:46] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: oh you coming out to mill d holes in angle iron?
[02:15:56] <SWPadnos> in a couple of weeeks ;)
[02:15:58] <SWPadnos> -e
[02:16:03] <JymmmEMC> I was kidding damnit
[02:16:25] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:16:31] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Hey, the nut mounting block is a tad high still.
[02:16:38] <SWPadnos> me too. you better be done by the time I get there, young man
[02:16:56] <SWPadnos> or there'll be hell to pay
[02:16:58] <SWPadnos> :)
[02:17:43] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: X I can only do no more than 59IPM or it stalls, Y I can do 120IPM no problem
[02:18:03] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[02:18:17] <SWPadnos> same size motors?
[02:18:23] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: might need to take off a tad more on the nut mounting block it's a tad high
[02:18:39] <SWPadnos> too high? that's doesn't sound right
[02:18:52] <SWPadnos> -'s
[02:19:21] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: if by doesn't sound right the swueal of stalling steppers, then you're right =)
[02:19:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:19:37] <SWPadnos> it should be too short if anything
[02:19:44] <JymmmEMC> nope
[02:19:47] <SWPadnos> still wrong but correctable with a shim
[02:19:57] <SWPadnos> I wonder if there was an error in some measurements somewhere
[02:20:12] <JymmmEMC> maybe the mill for all we know
[02:20:55] <SWPadnos> I noticed some crap around the edges of the countersunk screw holes that hold the C channel to the mounting blocks - you might try filing that off
[02:21:02] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I can fix it.... grabs the angle grinder....
[02:21:14] <SWPadnos> that'll work
[02:21:27] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: already did, before I even thought about mounting it
[02:21:30] <SWPadnos> just a few thou off the top of the C-channel would do it
[02:21:36] <SWPadnos> ok
[02:21:39] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[02:24:26] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I thought about hitting davis, but I hear their engineering dept really sucks.
[02:24:36] <SWPadnos> UC Davis?
[02:24:45] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: yeah...
[02:24:58] <SWPadnos> well, you don't need engineering, you need machining :)
[02:25:23] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: UCD machining I hear is evne worse than their engineering dept
[02:25:23] <SWPadnos> you could shim the connection from the cross plate to the uprights
[02:25:32] <SWPadnos> unless that's a pain to get installed
[02:25:58] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Nah, I think I'll see if I can find some 1/2" angle aluminum
[02:26:26] <JymmmEMC> NewType: btw.... just kidding =)
[02:27:01] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Note the domain ---> NewType [n=tang@hypaul1.engr.ucdavis.edu] entered the room.
[02:27:13] <SWPadnos> yes, I saw it
[02:27:17] <dmes1> machining is MY specialty
[02:27:22] <SWPadnos> it's a hydrogen energy lab
[02:27:57] <JymmmEMC> dmes1: Fine, make me a sandwich
[02:28:10] <dmes1> nickel plate to size
[02:28:24] <JymmmEMC> dmes1: ham and cheese will be fine
[02:28:35] <dmes1> butter or myo??
[02:28:53] <JymmmEMC> butter?! never heard of such a thing on H&C
[02:29:00] <dmes1> swiss or cheddar.. old or new
[02:29:10] <JymmmEMC> cheddar
[02:29:23] <dmes1> peace... atya
[02:30:57] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I just learned about ssh -D today... that is frickin cool!
[02:31:09] <SWPadnos> oh. never heard of that option
[02:31:25] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: creates a dynamic proxy
[02:31:54] <SWPadnos> cool
[02:32:31] <SWPadnos> so - how hard is it to reinstall that cross plate to the uprights?
[02:32:39] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: so ssh -D 1234 SWPadnos@domain.tld will create a dynamic proxy you just setup firefox to use a socks proxy and your securely tunneled. 1234 being the port number you setup in ff
[02:32:58] <JymmmEMC> and localhost
[02:34:40] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: to where now?
[02:35:03] <SWPadnos> the cross plate - is the removal and reinstallation of that part a hard task?
[02:35:14] <JymmmEMC> no
[02:35:22] <SWPadnos> ok, then put 0.005 shims there
[02:35:36] <SWPadnos> that'll "shrink" the ballnut mount by 0.005
[02:35:56] <JymmmEMC> hmmmm
[02:36:11] <SWPadnos> cut them a little oversize, and you won't even have to deal with filing / flattening the shims
[02:36:40] <JymmmEMC> oversize or undersized?
[02:36:58] <SWPadnos> over - that way the raised cut will be outside the mating area
[02:37:07] <JymmmEMC> ah
[02:38:00] <JymmmEMC> I see a sliced finger in the near future
[02:38:22] <SWPadnos> nice!
[02:48:22] <dmes1> not on a wish or a prayer
[02:48:36] <SWPadnos> that's "a Wing nad a Prayer"
[02:48:42] <SWPadnos> err - and
[02:48:52] <SWPadnos> the theme to "The Greatest American Hero"
[02:52:33] <dmes1> an AWSOME hang-gliding tune...
[04:22:48] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: yo
[04:26:17] <SWPadnos> ya
[04:27:39] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I was working on placement of the controls on the case. I realized (even with landing gear extended) that hitting BRB can make the case tip over.
[04:28:02] <SWPadnos> heh - I guess that stuff needs to be on the top or front :)
[04:28:31] <SWPadnos> I'd actually use that small box and have the BRB remote from the control box
[04:29:00] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I think I'll toss them in the front where the ext drives have been. there is a nice place for a new backplate I can install there - and then even have a locking door too
[04:29:19] <SWPadnos> hmmm - and the BRB should get pushed in if you close the door
[04:29:20] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: you mena the SS one?
[04:29:23] <SWPadnos> yes
[04:29:28] <SWPadnos> it's gota hole
[04:29:41] <SWPadnos> all you need is a smaller BRB - a 22mm one
[04:29:45] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: You just dont like my ugly beige case, do ya =)
[04:29:58] <SWPadnos> no - it's too much like all my computers ')
[04:30:00] <SWPadnos> ;)
[04:30:37] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Now, where in the hell do you think I'm going to be placing all these cases in this garage when in operation?????
[04:30:58] <SWPadnos> dunno - that's why it's nice to have a small remote BRB you can move around easily
[04:31:13] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: the SS case aint that small
[04:31:24] <SWPadnos> the 4x4 one that was the "load"?
[04:31:35] <SWPadnos> that's what I'm talking about - just the one button
[04:31:56] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Oh... I thought you mean the other one.
[04:32:13] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: it aint 4x4, more of a single gang
[04:32:26] <SWPadnos> probably 4x4 plus a little overhang
[04:32:37] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: no, not that big
[04:32:40] <SWPadnos> that's a standard size for industrial - there are no "gangs" in industrial stuff ;)
[04:33:40] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: besides, it's not deep enough for the BRB
[04:34:19] <SWPadnos> oh. hmm
[04:34:45] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: We're not running 120VAC thru it anymore are we?
[04:34:52] <SWPadnos> nope
[04:35:14] <SWPadnos> and no extra circuit for the blue light I think, so only the LED and one or two contact pairs
[04:36:04] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: The jury is still out on that one (the blue light that is)
[04:36:35] <SWPadnos> well, remember that it requires another channel for both fault chains
[04:36:58] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: *IF* both sets of NC contacts can be used, I want to wire up bith in series for BRB
[04:37:08] <SWPadnos> that's silly
[04:37:20] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: bite me! lol
[04:37:24] <SWPadnos> it's just extra wiring to go bad. you can't weld both sets of contacts
[04:37:26] <SWPadnos> :P
[04:37:43] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: blah blah blah
[04:37:52] <SWPadnos> if you punch that button, it will break the circuit on at least one side
[04:38:09] <SWPadnos> and remember, there's no current in the estop chain - that only goes into the safety relay
[04:38:14] <SWPadnos> so there won't be any welding anyway
[04:38:28] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I found some angle sheet I can use as a backbrace for the motor connectors, will work nicely and actually center the connectors for easy insertion/removale of the cable.s
[04:38:58] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I'm talkin defective contacts - hardly a chance that BOTH sets fail at the same time.
[04:39:00] <SWPadnos> nice
[04:39:16] <SWPadnos> there are two contacts per pole
[04:39:25] <JymmmEMC> right, one NO one NC
[04:39:32] <SWPadnos> it's like a contactor, with a bar that contacts two points in series
[04:39:38] <SWPadnos> no, *PER* pole
[04:39:53] <SWPadnos> you will only have NO or NC per pair of connections, not both
[04:40:05] <SWPadnos> it is *NOT* a SPDT-type arrangement
[04:40:40] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I never said it was.... that's why I said in series
[04:41:05] <SWPadnos> well, whatever. you can waste the wire and add failure points if you want ...
[04:41:19] <JymmmEMC> ------_|_------------_|_------------
[04:41:32] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: what's 4" of wire?!
[04:42:06] <SWPadnos> U inderstand the idea, I just think it adds no significant protection, and it makes it so you can't use e.g. an NO contact there (without increasing the depth) for the blue light (in the future)
[04:42:10] <SWPadnos> s/U/I/
[04:43:03] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: what future?! Let's deal with the present
[04:43:08] <SWPadnos> no
[04:43:10] <SWPadnos> I refuse
[04:43:12] <SWPadnos> don't make me
[04:43:30] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Fine deal with the past instead!
[04:43:39] <SWPadnos> no
[04:43:41] <SWPadnos> I refuse
[04:43:42] <SWPadnos> don't make me
[04:43:59] <SWPadnos> I'm livin' in the future, baby!
[04:44:06] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Here, hold these wires for me
[04:44:07] <SWPadnos> just waiting for the world to catch up
[04:45:20] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Anywoo.... having the controls on the front allow me to raise the drives up a few inches, will give extra room for panduit, and maybe more DIN rail, which it looks like I'll be needing.
[04:45:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:45:42] <SWPadnos> have I mentioned that if you have to measure, the box is too small? :)
[04:46:15] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Please, take this personally.... phuk U and the slide rule you rode in on!
[04:46:40] <SWPadnos> I do not ride slide rules
[04:46:57] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: (I'll be SO happy when I can get rid of these extra cases I have around here)
[04:47:09] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:47:16] <SWPadnos> I hope they don't all end up being extra
[04:47:35] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: They will... till the next project at least.
[04:47:49] <SWPadnos> oh. I'm busy for that project
[04:47:56] <SWPadnos> just FYI
[04:48:29] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Yeah, I could tell as you were giving me shitloads of feedback on it =)
[04:48:37] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:49:06] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: DEFINATELY all digital before hand
[04:49:47] <JymmmEMC> dont care how long it takes, so you better reserve your next speaking engangement till AFTER it's completed and I've had time to play.
[04:50:18] <SWPadnos> nah, I can repeat this one for a few years
[04:50:26] <SWPadnos> but next time I'll buy a tiny lathe or something ;)
[04:50:34] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: not to worry, it'll take me that long.
[04:51:18] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: You never did say if you wanted a UPS or not?
[04:51:32] <SWPadnos> oh. maybe
[04:52:00] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: If you can put a handle on it, maybe use it as your 2nd bag =)
[04:52:05] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:52:18] <SWPadnos> well, with my elite status, they may take it and not charge me extra
[04:52:21] <JymmmEMC> but ya they wont be tossing it around
[04:52:26] <JymmmEMC> bet
[04:52:42] <SWPadnos> and I can check 3 bags, so I could do the UPS as one and the batteries as another
[04:53:00] <SWPadnos> the weight limit is either 50 or 70 pounds, I don't remember which
[04:53:02] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: that's an idea
[04:53:13] <JymmmEMC> the ups is light w/o battereis
[04:53:33] <JymmmEMC> a case of batteries is another story
[04:54:38] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Got 20A outlet for it?
[04:54:47] <SWPadnos> yep
[04:54:56] <SWPadnos> I have a separate circuit to my "server closet"
[04:55:16] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Cool. ok it's yours. just let me know if you really want it.
[04:55:22] <SWPadnos> I will. thanks
[04:55:55] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I assume you want the one with the twist lock on the back?
[04:56:00] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure I can use it - I have the SUA750XL plus extra battery pack right now, and I expect to go down in power requirements if anything (from ~200W with LCD)
[04:56:06] <SWPadnos> dunno
[04:56:26] <SWPadnos> that would be good for my bench power supply, but not for much else :)
[04:56:28] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Well, if you have the rackspace for it.
[04:56:46] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: oh you mean the xfmr's in it?
[04:56:48] <SWPadnos> actually, sticking a UPS on that might be good eventually so I can be sure lab experiments run to cpmpletion
[04:57:08] <SWPadnos> no, I have a 0-60V, 0-18A lab power supply
[04:57:45] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: oh rack mount one huh?
[04:57:49] <SWPadnos> yep
[04:58:03] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: the ups would be perfect for it... nice and clean
[04:58:28] <SWPadnos> the gray ones or the black ones?
[04:58:44] <JymmmEMC> ?
[04:58:54] <SWPadnos> I have the DCS60-18E: http://www.elgar.com/products/DCS/DCS_Overview.htm
[04:59:09] <SWPadnos> UPSes - I thought you had some 1U black ones
[04:59:26] <SWPadnos> plus the big 4 or 5U gray ones
[04:59:30] <JymmmEMC> the black 1U is a server. the UPS are all 3U
[04:59:34] <SWPadnos> ah :)
[04:59:54] <JymmmEMC> the 4U is the switch
[04:59:58] <JymmmEMC> 80p
[05:00:05] <SWPadnos> yeah - the christmas tree
[05:00:10] <JymmmEMC> well 72p + fiber goodness
[09:19:02] <micges> hwello
[09:19:14] <micges> hello
[11:32:47] <BigJohnT> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
[12:30:40] <skunkworks> so... Who wants to answer this one? http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55752
[12:30:44] <skunkworks> tactfully :)
[12:32:32] <skunkworks> Good morning
[12:34:57] <skunkworks> hmm - I could point him to a few of the list discussions.
[12:35:30] <archivist> anti usb bias needs fixing (and any issues thats causing said bias)
[12:36:54] <skunkworks> aww - come on now. We love usb..
[12:37:33] <skunkworks> without usb - we would still be setting baud rates and stop bits..
[12:40:53] <archivist> usb2 shifts data so fast that latency ought to be fixable
[12:41:28] <eric_U> I'm still setting baud rates and stop bits even with usb
[12:41:55] <eric_U> i don't know if they really fixed the latency problems with usb2
[12:48:52] <fenn> archivist: what, are you proposing replacing all 900 million usb controllers out there?
[12:49:19] <archivist> fenn or is it in the drivers
[12:49:29] <fenn> pretty sure it's the usb specification
[12:49:53] <eric_U> they send the data in blocks
[12:50:01] <eric_U> spec was made for bill gates
[12:50:20] <eric_U> driver issue that is encoded in the hardware
[12:50:44] <eric_U> firewire works great, too bad it's not as popular
[12:52:36] <fenn> i think a usb stepper driver would work ok, but not for servos
[12:53:07] <eric_U> my understanding is that people have tried and failed
[12:53:20] <fenn> really? must not have tried very hard
[12:53:36] <eric_U> timing
[12:54:01] <fenn> queue up the moves, put a timestamp on each move, do timing in a microcontroller on the other end of the usb wire
[12:54:05] <eric_U> you can offload emc to an avr like usbdudes
[12:54:20] <dwer1> everything depends on what you have on the other side of the usb cable
[12:54:27] <dwer1> is not an usb-per-se problem
[12:54:40] <eric_U> it doesn't really fit the emc model
[12:54:42] <dwer1> i've done quite a few usb linux drivers :)
[12:54:57] <dwer1> eric_U: probably not
[12:55:15] <dwer1> fireware is nice but it has its own complexities too
[12:55:22] <eric_U> look at the g-rex $400 for a thing to offload your cnc program
[12:55:35] <fenn> g-rex is dumb
[12:55:53] <eric_U> it's the logical consequence of wanting to offload the processing
[12:55:58] <fenn> i'm talking about a $10 micro
[12:56:08] <fenn> only offload the time-critical parts
[12:57:04] <fenn> i think reprap is doing something like this
[12:57:45] <skunkworks> so - you would just have to send the info faster than the timestamp?
[12:58:32] <skunkworks> and let the $10 micro do the sorting? What about FO and such?
[12:59:20] <fenn> FO would be delayed by some number of milliseconds
[12:59:23] <fenn> big deal
[12:59:41] <skunkworks> ah
[13:00:13] <skunkworks> * skunkworks can only function in 500ms intervals anyways.
[13:00:14] <fenn> the micro requests data when its buffer gets low
[13:00:44] <fenn> right, this wouldnt be good for EDM obviously
[13:02:58] <archivist> set bufferer time less than 500ms (get fast enough devices)
[13:07:18] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[13:11:23] <cradek> the real answer to this guy is that more than the usual hal driver would be needed to use this kind of device...
[13:13:09] <archivist> yes true, /me has a read of the usb spec (155 pages, i may be some time)
[13:17:34] <archivist> interesting the 480meg high speed is independent of the older slow speed device controllers
[13:19:37] <skunkworks> Guest643: Hi
[13:19:38] <Guest643> hello!
[13:20:39] <Guest643> anybody here, who can help me with installing emc2.2.1?
[13:21:49] <skunkworks> ask away...
[13:24:00] <Guest643> ?
[13:24:25] <skunkworks> What is the issue?
[13:24:55] <Guest643> ./configure was done properly
[13:25:17] <Guest643> then I tried the "make" command
[13:25:38] <Guest643> the error message was:
[13:25:46] <skunkworks> pastebin.ca
[13:26:00] <skunkworks> (if it is more than a few lines)
[13:26:30] <Guest643> undefined reference to: _Unwind_GetIPinfo@GCC_4.2.0
[13:27:01] <skunkworks> which version of linux are you doing this on?
[13:27:48] <Guest643> 2.6.15
[13:27:56] <Guest643> Debian
[13:30:12] <fenn> Guest643: first of all, why are you compiling emc?
[13:30:31] <skunkworks> * skunkworks is glad fenn jumped in..
[13:32:02] <Guest643> because I would like to control a robot arm with it
[13:33:22] <cradek> I'd like to see the full configure and make output - I haven't seen this error before
[13:33:53] <fenn> the easiest way to get all the build-time dependencies is to add the .deb repository to your apt sources.list (run the install script) and then do apt-get build-dep emc2
[13:34:21] <archivist> I think I just found the default 1ms figure ppl talk about for usb2
[13:34:54] <archivist> which is 8 microframes, it can do 1
[13:36:09] <Guest643> what was the URL for the source forum?
[13:37:35] <Guest643> is this the pastebin.ca?
[13:38:10] <fenn> pastebin.ca allows you to share large amounts of text with us
[13:38:27] <fenn> such as the 'make' errors, for example
[13:39:39] <Guest643> ok, done
[13:39:52] <Guest643> 967484
[13:41:50] <fenn> what is the output of `ldd /usr/lib/gcc/i486-linux-gnu/3.4.6/libstdc++.so`
[13:42:03] <fenn> oops
[13:42:09] <fenn> i always mess that up
[13:44:18] <Guest643> 967489
[13:45:57] <fenn> i dont know exactly what the problem is, but i think you have some issues with library version numbers
[13:47:22] <Guest643> what does that mean? I am a beginner in Linux
[13:50:36] <fenn> the easiest thing to do, is download the emc2 live cd
[13:51:21] <Guest643> can I implement my own robot kinematics there?
[13:51:24] <fenn> even if you have some specific reason to use debian, you can examine the way things are supposed to be and see what is different
[13:52:45] <Guest643> I think I have to modify the source code somehow to implement my own kinematics
[13:52:58] <fenn> this explains what you should do before you can compile any code: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Preparing_Ubuntu_to_compile_emc2
[13:55:26] <archivist> Guest643, getting the live CD gets the realtime kernel setup as well and an example robot hal file iirc
[13:55:26] <Guest643> is that possible with emc running on ubuntu?
[13:55:30] <skunkworks> me seconds the livecd..
[13:55:41] <skunkworks> Yes.
[13:56:16] <Guest643> can I change the kinematics there?
[13:56:53] <Guest643> I thought I have to do it in the source code..
[13:57:08] <fenn> having ubuntu and emc repositories will make it easier to set up your development environment
[13:57:30] <fenn> then you get to pester us about source code, after you have compiled a plain emc2
[14:00:34] <Guest643> I did it on another computer, it works, but not with the type of kinematics I wanted
[14:02:13] <fenn> you compiled emc2 from source? and ran one of the robot configs?
[14:03:06] <fenn> then go to emc2/src/emc/kinematics/ and start changing the code
[14:04:14] <Guest643> ok, thanx:)
[14:04:16] <fenn> what kind of robot arm is it?
[14:04:56] <Guest643> 20 years old Mitsubishi RM501
[14:05:47] <Guest643> it is gonna be my diplome work
[14:05:55] <Guest643> ( I hope )
[14:07:26] <Guest643> I installed the Live-CD, but not from source
[14:08:44] <skunkworks> once you do that - follow the wiki to install/build the source..
[14:09:10] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Preparing_Ubuntu_to_compile_emc2
[14:09:32] <archivist> hmm can the servo loops handle 250 microseconds
[14:10:19] <fenn> archivist: that should be plenty - around 2kHz round trip
[14:10:39] <fenn> default emc servo loop is 1kHz
[14:11:28] <archivist> oo we should read this spec a bit harder then 1 microframe is 125 us and one eachway plus a bit of space...
[14:12:14] <archivist> skim reading Im at page 58 of 155
[14:15:24] <archivist> hmm and its end of dinner time...
[14:16:11] <eric_U> do you have a link to the spec?
[14:16:33] <archivist> http://www.intel.com/technology/usb/ehcispec.htm
[14:16:54] <archivist> ehci-r10.pdf
[14:23:17] <Guest643> thanx for help!
[14:23:21] <Guest643> bye
[14:23:57] <archivist> we need to work out interaction for slow devices on other ports and the emc high speed port
[14:25:44] <jepler> you don't have to rebuild emc from scratch to use a new kinematics type. you compile them just like you do new hal components.
[14:25:49] <jepler> sudo comp --install mykins.c
[14:27:57] <skunkworks> you can do it in the installed emc2?
[14:28:06] <jepler> yes.
[14:28:08] <skunkworks> neat
[14:28:33] <jepler> you have to install additional packages (build-essential and emc2-dev) just like for developing other realtime components
[14:28:34] <cradek> hm, I didn't even know that
[14:31:29] <jepler> I'm not sure how to document it better
[14:32:49] <cradek> (I'm not saying it was a failure in the documentation)
[15:11:30] <fenn> hm. looks like reprap is doing a g-code interpreter in an arduino
[16:00:54] <skunkworks> mmm - day old grilled chicken... Has to be the best idea ever
[16:01:48] <cradek> surely cold leftover pizza is better
[16:02:51] <skunkworks> without a doubt
[16:03:19] <skunkworks> *second best thing evert
[16:03:32] <archivist> hmm salmanela and chips
[16:04:57] <skunkworks> It was refridgerated..
[16:05:23] <skunkworks> teryiaki marinade
[16:05:40] <skunkworks> and mashed red potatoes
[16:05:53] <skunkworks> life is good
[16:07:56] <skunkworks> we use rice milk - which seems to make the potatoes just a touch sweet
[16:08:44] <BigJohnT> mmm, sawmill gravy covering buttermilk biscuits with grits and eggs and bacon
[16:08:59] <skunkworks> well - anything with bacon is good..
[16:09:09] <BigJohnT> I can't wait for Saturday
[16:10:43] <skunkworks> On a side note.. There isn't any feedback with the spindle speed change that I can see ( like the tool change ) I assume that is why feed hold was used during a spindle speed change to stop any motion until the spindle was at speed.
[16:10:58] <skunkworks> on the mazak
[16:12:05] <cradek> yeah I wonder if there should be another loopback for speed changes.
[16:12:34] <cradek> with CSS it's hard to know which speed changes should cause waits
[16:15:19] <skunkworks> ah. didn't think of that.
[16:27:21] <skunkworks> has there been any discussion about multible tool change positions?
[16:29:58] <SWPadnos> yes
[16:30:06] <skunkworks> so say - t1 would go to x1y1, t2 would to to x1y2...
[16:30:11] <SWPadnos> like for a tool array on a table or that kind of thing
[16:30:29] <SWPadnos> but it's not easy, and as far as I know, it's not supported
[16:30:42] <SWPadnos> the toolchanger would have to do the motion on its own
[16:30:55] <skunkworks> eww
[16:31:33] <SWPadnos> yeah - "EMC" basically says "we want the tool", and moves to the toolchange position, but it doesn't really give up control of the motors
[16:31:42] <skunkworks> right
[16:31:49] <SWPadnos> you can move things around in HAL, so it should be "possible"
[16:31:55] <skunkworks> I was trying to think of a round about way of doing it..
[16:32:07] <SWPadnos> but possible != (smart || easy)
[16:32:19] <skunkworks> like somehow changing the tool change position on the fly..
[16:32:35] <archivist> a db of tool locations
[16:32:38] <cradek> this would be relatively easy if you can write a bit of C
[16:32:48] <SWPadnos> sure - make a component that acts as a mux for the axis-*-motor-pos-cmds and position feedbacks
[16:33:02] <SWPadnos> and then does its own math to figure out where to go for each tool
[16:33:15] <SWPadnos> all it has to do is move back to the tool change position when it's done
[16:33:24] <SWPadnos> (so you don't get a following error)
[16:33:32] <cradek> however many of us are scared to say that some advanced configurations require C code changes
[16:33:41] <skunkworks> heh :)
[16:33:50] <archivist> the evil C
[16:33:59] <SWPadnos> heh - yeah. when I say it isn't supported, it's because nobody has written the code, not because it's impossible
[16:34:14] <SWPadnos> sudo comp --install my_toolchanger.c :)
[16:36:16] <skunkworks> where do you specify the tool change location?
[16:38:05] <skunkworks> got it
[16:38:06] <SWPadnos> there's one inthe ini file
[16:38:13] <skunkworks> TOOL_CHANGE_POSITION = 0 0 2
[16:38:25] <SWPadnos> it would be reasonably easy to make a HAL component that only offsets from that position
[16:38:44] <skunkworks> If that was made available to hal...
[16:38:48] <SWPadnos> so EMC moves to the base of the array, then there are 4 parameters that tell the module where to move from there:
[16:38:55] <SWPadnos> X and Y offsets between pockets
[16:39:00] <SWPadnos> X and Y array size
[16:39:35] <SWPadnos> you then need a pair of in and out pins per axis for position command and position feedback
[16:39:48] <SWPadnos> it's available to HAL once EMC moves there ;)
[16:39:55] <archivist> it could easily not be a nice array for odd shaped tools
[16:40:20] <skunkworks> This isn't for me... http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55698
[16:40:21] <SWPadnos> oh, actually, since you would probably zero any rotary axes, you should be able to get by with only XY and maybe Z
[16:41:02] <SWPadnos> archivist, true - you could make a larger number of parameters - have a pitch and spacing per row or something
[16:41:18] <archivist> row, per tool
[16:41:45] <SWPadnos> no, just make all the pockets in a single row be the same pitch - that of the largest tool in that row
[16:41:46] <archivist> with default row/cols
[16:41:59] <SWPadnos> too complicated if you have X+Y offsets for each tool (though that's also possible)
[16:42:53] <SWPadnos> oh - a linear array - that's wasier :)
[16:42:56] <SWPadnos> easier
[16:42:57] <archivist> Im thinking almost of parts pick and place where vision finds xy and angle
[16:43:24] <archivist> depends on machine and requirements
[16:43:28] <SWPadnos> I'm thikning of something that can be easily implemented in HAL ;)
[16:43:41] <skunkworks> way easier = wasier?
[16:43:50] <SWPadnos> err - yeah, that's the ticket
[19:40:26] <dwer1> ianybody knows the price of a mesa eectronics 7i37 or 7i37T?
[19:41:16] <SWPadnos> http://www.mesanet.com - click on "price list"
[19:41:55] <dwer1> d'oh!!!
[19:42:01] <dwer1> that link is outside of my screen!
[19:42:02] <dwer1> :-D
[19:42:08] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:42:15] <SWPadnos> must be on 648x480 ;)
[19:42:24] <eric_U> he's using a pda
[19:42:27] <SWPadnos> http://www.mesanet.com/prices.html
[19:42:36] <dwer1> ty very much
[19:42:37] <eric_U> blackberry
[19:42:59] <SWPadnos> $69 and $79, respectively (in case you can't scroll ;) )
[19:43:00] <dwer1> i'm on 1280x800..
[19:43:03] <dwer1> with big fonts :-D
[19:43:11] <eric_U> big fonts are nice
[19:43:44] <eric_U> although now that I have the 24", I don't seem to need them as much as with the 22"
[19:43:58] <SWPadnos> heh. I sure need them with my 22"
[19:44:19] <SWPadnos> 3840x2400 resolution makes for some tiny pixels
[19:44:31] <eric_U> wow
[19:44:35] <eric_U> crt?
[19:44:38] <SWPadnos> LCD
[19:44:39] <SkinnYPupp> 3840x2400 wooooo
[19:45:05] <SWPadnos> I'll definitely want Firefox 3 on that one
[19:45:17] <SWPadnos> google maps is pretty amazing, as are PDFs
[19:45:36] <eric_U> do PDFs take forever to scroll?
[19:45:42] <SWPadnos> nope
[19:45:43] <archivist> I run 2800x1600 at home (dual screen)
[19:46:16] <eric_U> I guess they don't teach math in librarian school
[19:46:26] <SWPadnos> they do "tear" a little - you get replications of what's already been rendered, but it draws the page pretty quickly once you stop scrolling
[19:47:04] <eric_U> 1400x1600 is a very strange resolution for a single monitor
[19:47:10] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:47:50] <SWPadnos> seems like 3200x1200 would be more like it, unless it's two monitors pivoted
[19:47:55] <archivist> bah ages since i looked
[19:48:35] <archivist> must be old age forgetting the vertical res
[19:48:44] <eric_U> I wouldnt' mind having 2x24" arrayed vertically, but my bifocals pretty much exclude that possibility
[19:48:45] <SWPadnos> I did try the pivot thing with a couple of Dell 24" - 2400x1920, btu it really sucked for performance
[19:48:58] <SWPadnos> s/btu/but/
[19:49:11] <eric_U> w/t/at?
[19:49:27] <SWPadnos> you have to know sed to participate here
[19:49:36] <SWPadnos> at least s and maybe g :)
[19:49:39] <klickrr> I gave up on dual screen performance and just use 2 computers with x2x, you can't drag things back and forth, but i never did that anyway
[19:49:39] <archivist> awk ftw
[19:50:14] <eric_U> I'm usually using many computers at work, but only 2 screens
[19:50:17] <SWPadnos> well, with an Nvidia 7800GT or Quadro FX3500, dual screens perform quite nicely
[19:50:36] <SWPadnos> SYnergy may allow you to drag/drop between PCs - I'm not sure
[19:51:06] <klickrr> I have a 8600GT
[19:51:27] <klickrr> i couldn't get 1080p movies to play smoothly when doing dual screen stuff
[19:51:47] <SWPadnos> oh - I haven't tried much video with it, and no HD
[19:52:15] <archivist> I cant run solidworks when in dual screen
[19:52:19] <SWPadnos> but Wolf:ET plays great at 3840x2400 - something like 70 FPS :)
[19:52:21] <klickrr> technically i never tried on this computer, i tried on my other one, this is a quad core, it would probably fair better... but i don't it would be perfect
[19:53:05] <SWPadnos> ah - yes, Synergy does allow cut/paste between computers
[19:53:33] <klickrr> yea, that's one thing x2x doesn't do between the 2 puter, that would be nice
[19:53:51] <eric_U> link to synergy?
[19:53:58] <SWPadnos> http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/
[19:54:01] <SWPadnos> cross platform even
[19:54:04] <eric_U> thx
[19:54:06] <SWPadnos> sure
[19:54:26] <skunkworks> wolf:ET?
[19:54:44] <SWPadnos> Wolfenstein:Enemy Territory - a First Person Shooter game
[19:55:19] <klickrr> wow, synergy sounds much better then x2x.. hmm, i may have to try that out, thanks SWP
[19:55:22] <SWPadnos> sure
[20:02:25] <SkinnYPupp> http://www.reuters.com/article/blogBurst/technology?type=technologyNews&w1=B7ovpm21IaDoL40ZFnNfGe&w2=B82x9Ksc5UNVzDjpITcIrRbi&src=blogBurst_technologyNews&bbPostId=Cz7EfTqWpQY7eCzAA7qIIG4jJmCzDGN1nj2oqUiBEmklbIOHRDJ&bbParentWidgetId=B82x9Ksc5UNVzDjpITcIrRbi
[20:02:38] <dwer1> hey this synegry thing seems nice!
[20:03:02] <dwer1> I wonder if I can mix two keyboards..
[20:03:24] <SWPadnos> I don't think so - it's kind of the opposite function
[20:03:44] <SWPadnos> you can use two keyboards on a single PC anyway (plug in as many USB keyboards as you want)
[20:03:54] <dwer1> just redirect the output on whichever screen the mouse is on
[20:03:58] <klickrr> maybe if you plug 2 keyboards into the main computer, and get it's xorg.conf to work with the 2 keyboards, then it would work fine i guess
[20:04:11] <SWPadnos> at least on Linux - dunno about Windows
[20:04:17] <dwer1> i'll give it a try.. my desk is getting crowded
[20:04:25] <dwer1> windows? what's that? :)
[20:04:38] <eric_U> I coulda used that 10 years ago
[20:04:38] <klickrr> we're not sure
[20:04:53] <archivist> we have to suffer the windaz
[20:05:01] <SWPadnos> I think by default any keyboard will send "core events". you have to explicitly tell the system that you don't want core events from extra mice / keyboards you connect
[20:05:16] <eric_U> I just had to port a program over to linux because windows was gooping up the works while renaming a file
[20:05:34] <klickrr> yea, i would think so, however i;ve never hooked up 2 keyboards, and don't really plan on it eheh
[20:05:55] <SWPadnos> I have - do it all the time with my laptop ;)
[20:06:00] <eric_U> we have 2 keyboards/mice on my windows computer at work
[20:06:03] <dwer1> that means I could stack mylaptops one over the other :-D
[20:06:08] <klickrr> ahhh, yea
[20:06:14] <eric_U> it functions fine
[20:06:32] <klickrr> oh i'm not saying i don't thikn it would work, i'm just saying i've never had a need to do it.. that's all
[20:06:32] <micges> hello
[20:06:33] <SWPadnos> oh yeah - I've certainly done it with my Windows laptop before
[20:06:47] <dwer1> can't resist.. booting my other poor old laptop..
[20:06:48] <dwer1> :)
[20:30:23] <dwer1> ... it's just amazing.
[21:03:17] <skunkworks> didn't ray have a cool little pdf on CL?
[21:03:30] <skunkworks> What he would teach off of.
[21:03:35] <skunkworks> I cannot find it.
[21:40:17] <christel> [Global Notice] Hi all! I'm about to do a teeny bit of re-routing, it shouldn't be too messy -- affected users should be around 7K. Have a great day and thank you for using freenode!
[22:04:49] <eric_U> I feel like I'm watching a game of musical chairs
[23:39:43] <NewType_> sorry... my router keeps kicking me off irc.
[23:40:17] <NewType_> is EPP the only working option to use with EMC?
[23:42:48] <skunkworks> open wireless networks are fun :)
[23:43:15] <NewType_> hah. at least it lets you on! my wire router keeps kicking me off irc
[23:43:51] <NewType_> skunkworks, you have emc working?
[23:43:55] <skunkworks> heh - This is very low signal
[23:44:09] <skunkworks> yes - mostly tinkering
[23:44:13] <NewType_> my ghost NewType is still here. :)
[23:44:26] <NewType_> have you use the stepper config wizard?
[23:44:29] <skunkworks> yah - it take a while t flushout
[23:44:36] <skunkworks> Yes - a few times.
[23:44:51] <NewType_> have you use the "test" function to test the axis?
[23:44:59] <NewType_> I can't get my to move.
[23:45:02] <skunkworks> No - sorry
[23:45:06] <NewType_> oh.
[23:45:09] <skunkworks> what version of emc?
[23:45:12] <NewType_> 2.2
[23:45:28] <skunkworks> 2.2.what?
[23:45:33] <NewType_> I am checking my parallel port config... but I don't have EPP option
[23:45:49] <NewType_> don't know. it is right off the CD. let me reboot and find out.
[23:46:22] <skunkworks> if you haven't updated - 2.2.4 is the latest and there are a lot of bug fixes for stepconfg
[23:46:35] <NewType_> ohhhh. really.
[23:46:48] <NewType_> alright. let me try that before I come back here...
[23:47:04] <NewType_> my router will kick me off any minute now.
[23:47:25] <skunkworks> :)
[23:47:30] <NewType_> what is the quickest way to get the parallel port to output something?
[23:47:36] <skunkworks> I am probably going to dropoff here also.
[23:47:44] <NewType_> alright.
[23:48:06] <skunkworks> step-inch config should do something.
[23:48:16] <skunkworks> stepper_inch or whatever it is called
[23:48:30] <NewType_> what's that? from the menu? or type it at the prompt? ;p
[23:48:36] <NewType_> ohhh.
[23:48:39] <NewType_> the sample config.
[23:48:40] <NewType_> ??
[23:48:42] <skunkworks> when you start emc - the picklist
[23:48:44] <skunkworks> yes
[23:49:10] <NewType_> yeah, but I need to wire the E-stop switch first. :(
[23:49:19] <skunkworks> ?
[23:49:57] <NewType_> don't I need to wire everything up first? I haven't look into that config file.
[23:50:27] <NewType_> what parallel port mode are you using?
[23:50:28] <skunkworks> Not with stepper inch - its estop loop just hooks back to itself
[23:50:53] <skunkworks> It should blindly output steps to the printer port if you take it out of estop and turn it on
[23:51:04] <NewType_> I see.
[23:51:05] <skunkworks> *emc out of estop and turn it on
[23:51:20] <skunkworks> *and jog an axis.
[23:51:28] <NewType_> OK. I'll do that...
[23:51:32] <NewType_> EMC 2.2.2
[23:51:50] <NewType_> I think it defaults to 0x378 parallel port...
[23:51:56] <skunkworks> x axis is pin 2 and 3 - if you have a way of looking at the port
[23:52:05] <NewType_> I have a scope.
[23:52:27] <NewType_> I just need to know if my parallel port is configure properly
[23:52:51] <skunkworks> play with it. I am loosing signal.