#emc | Logs for 2008-01-29

[00:12:20] <micges> alex_joni: around ?
[00:12:32] <jensor> ok I see that when one makes that change t;he system must be rebooted before you can run apps
[00:12:46] <jensor> Thanks
[00:15:32] <Roguish_> hey there. quick question: why is the gcode line incorrect: N106 G0 G28 G91 Z0.
[00:16:26] <Roguish_> error "cannot use 2 gcodes that both use axis values"
[00:17:00] <micges> cannot g0 with g28
[00:17:56] <micges> two g commands in one line
[00:18:15] <micges> must be g0 OR g28
[00:18:50] <Roguish_> ok. it comes out of a fanuc post in Mastercam
[00:19:23] <micges> can you post lines around the error one ?
[00:20:28] <Roguish_> N102 G20
[00:20:30] <Roguish_> N104 G0 G17 G40 G80 G90 G94 G98
[00:20:31] <Roguish_> N106 G28 G0 G91 Z0.
[00:20:33] <Roguish_> N108 G28 g0 X0. Y0.
[00:20:34] <Roguish_> N110 ( 3/8 DRILL TOOL - 1 DIA. OFF. - 0 LEN. - 0 DIA. - .375 )
[00:21:42] <Roguish_> actually, G0 comes in front of G28 (my editing is moving things around a bit)
[00:23:36] <micges> can you pastebin.org whole file ?
[00:24:21] <Roguish_> sure, just a sec...
[00:27:40] <Roguish_> http://pastebin.com/d49836bca
[00:29:58] <SWPadnos> G0 and G28 are both motion-producing codes, so I'm surprised MasterCam would output them both on one line
[00:30:38] <SWPadnos> unless their software treats that as some special case (like G28 needs to know a speed and G0 is shorthand for "really fast")
[00:31:26] <micges> SWPadnos: It is very possible
[00:32:46] <micges> my solution is to remove G0 from line N106 and N108
[00:33:48] <SWPadnos> it's also kind of silly to have G90 on N104, then G91 at N106 ...
[00:33:57] <Roguish_> sounds good to me. this is from a 'generic post. i'm doing a bit of editting in the post.
[00:34:15] <Roguish_> working on the 5axis setup.
[00:34:21] <SWPadnos> ah - cool
[00:34:37] <micges> SWPadnos: Bystronic lasers have G0 before everything too
[00:34:52] <SWPadnos> interesting
[00:35:11] <micges> long ago I wrote post to them :)
[00:35:15] <Roguish_> another silly (dumb) question. in the 5axis demo, is(are) the B and C axes 'nutating'?
[00:35:35] <SWPadnos> yes
[00:35:38] <SWPadnos> I think :)
[00:35:48] <Roguish_> i think it would be described as a 'tilting head' but i'm not sure.
[00:35:51] <SWPadnos> they aren't "nodal", as they'd say in the film industry
[00:36:05] <SWPadnos> well, since you can change the angle, it's not like a nutation thruster
[00:36:33] <Roguish_> check this: http://numeryx.com/cnc/index.htm
[00:37:29] <Roguish_> i think it is an X Y Z C B setup.
[00:37:43] <Roguish_> with a virtual 'W'
[00:37:47] <micges> anyone still interested of my DXF post to EMC ?
[00:38:01] <SWPadnos> probably :)
[00:38:46] <micges> http://www.emc-files.webpark.pl/import.tar.gz
[00:39:12] <SWPadnos> I hope somebody looks at it. (I can't at the moment, and have no DXFs to try it with anyway :( )
[00:39:30] <micges> ok
[00:42:07] <micges> my import generate files 0.ngc to (layers_count).ngc in /tmp
[00:49:10] <micges> oh and its still alpha ;P
[00:56:26] <cradek> micges: is there a way to get english?
[00:56:35] <cradek> I got it to build and run :-)
[00:58:39] <cradek> Błąd: /home/chris/ARC-TEST.DXF: brak warstwy A
[00:59:08] <cradek> I get this (and nothing in the preview) with a dxf containing polylines made of lines+arcs
[00:59:56] <micges> pastebin ?
[01:00:10] <cradek> do you want the dxf file?
[01:00:15] <micges> yup
[01:00:35] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/ARC-TEST.DXF
[01:01:05] <micges> I have olny dxfs form artioscad, autocad and qcad
[01:01:11] <cradek> this is from autocad
[01:01:36] <micges> and where is header ?
[01:01:49] <cradek> ?
[01:02:02] <cradek> this is exactly how autocad wrote it
[01:02:16] <micges> cant be
[01:02:29] <micges> my wrote about 200 lines of initialisation ..
[01:02:30] <cradek> oh I selected Entities
[01:02:40] <cradek> this is autocad R12
[01:02:59] <cradek> must be because I selected Entities with dxfout
[01:03:21] <micges> select all if you can
[01:03:48] <micges> I will fix to allow such files too
[01:04:35] <cradek> that fixes it
[01:04:42] <cradek> but many of the arcs are wrong
[01:04:53] <cradek> wrong direction maybe
[01:05:24] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/ARC-TEST.DXF
[01:05:29] <cradek> ^ new file with header
[01:05:40] <micges> moment
[01:06:01] <cradek> can you read it with autocad? I can make a screenshot if not, so you can see the correct arcs
[01:06:49] <micges> take screenshot
[01:08:20] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/arc-test.png
[01:08:46] <Hugomatic> Hi guys. I'm having problems with Emc2... it just won't start anymore. I rebooted and upgraded and I'm not having any luck. I get the following message: http://pastebin.ca/876745. I'd be very happy to get pointed in the right direction. I didn't touch the system much, but I was playing with python scripts when I noticed the problem. Any help would be great.
[01:08:49] <micges> try load to emc, maybe only preview is wrong
[01:09:45] <cradek> micges: I cannot figure out how to run it because of the language - can you say how
[01:09:57] <owhite> hullo people.
[01:10:27] <owhite> do you all know how I can remove this mod....
[01:10:33] <owhite> insmod: error inserting '/usr/realtime-2.6.15-magma/modules/rtai_hal.ko': -1 File exists
[01:10:57] <micges> ./import
[01:11:01] <micges> select file
[01:11:15] <micges> then push button "zaladuj"
[01:11:24] <cradek> window goes away
[01:11:39] <micges> file will be in /tmp/*.ngc
[01:11:45] <cradek> ah 1.ngc
[01:11:47] <acemi> owhite: try to run emc2 again
[01:12:04] <cradek> 1.ngc starts with a line "0"
[01:12:08] <jepler> Hugomatic: did you create a file called "gcode.py" somewhere, like in the folder with your inifile? If so, remove or rename it and the files gcode.pyc and gcode.pyo if they exist
[01:12:12] <cradek> and ends with line G2 ...
[01:12:39] <Hugomatic> jepler, its exactly what I did. thanks
[01:12:49] <owhite> acemi: still complains that rtai_hal.ko exists.
[01:13:01] <cradek> I added %. It is also missing feed rate
[01:13:04] <jepler> Hugomatic: instead of finding the "usual" module called gcode, axis found the file gcode.py when axis asked for the 'gcode' module
[01:13:21] <micges> cradek: its pure gfile
[01:13:22] <acemi> owhite: you can see loaded module with this command: sudo lsmod | head
[01:13:30] <cradek> now it loads but the arcs are wrong
[01:13:35] <acemi> to remove a module: sudo rmmod module_name
[01:13:45] <jepler> acemi: I saw your recent change on the wiki. libpth-dev should only be necessary when compiling with --enable-simulator (userspace fake realtime), not when building for realtime and hardware control.
[01:13:52] <cradek> I added % ... F99 ... %
[01:14:14] <cradek> micges: I think you are using the wrong bulge for adjacent arcs
[01:14:37] <Hugomatic> jepler, I'll whip up another name. I'm trying to make my own set of routines in Python. If I may, any preference between a "print myroutine()" over a "myreoutine()" that does the print inside?
[01:14:38] <jepler> owhite: try 'halrun -U' to try to force the realtime environment to unload.
[01:15:19] <micges> I will check arcs and add some header
[01:15:34] <cradek> micges: this test file is one I made to test Realize :-)
[01:15:38] <jepler> Hugomatic: that's a matter of personal preference or style. I do some of both (and also a third option: pass a file into myroutine() and .write() or print>> to it)
[01:15:58] <owhite> how about > halrun unloadrt
[01:15:59] <owhite> ?
[01:16:12] <cradek> micges: you are right the preview and export are different! both are wrong though
[01:16:46] <jepler> owhite: halrun probably won't start if it gets an error inserting rtai_hal .. (unless you give -U which is meant to run when the realtime system is already (partly) loaded)
[01:17:06] <jepler> halrun -U is like running the following sequence of commands: halcmd -R; halcmd stop; halcmd unload all; $REALTIME stop
[01:17:32] <micges> cradek: I know that can happen
[01:17:35] <jepler> (break halcmd lock; stop rtapi threads; unload all components; unload realtime support)
[01:17:52] <micges> ok Ill fix this and tomorrow second test :)
[01:19:06] <cradek> tell me if I can make more test files for you, I'm happy to help
[01:19:35] <micges> ok thanks
[01:20:12] <cradek> welcome
[01:20:18] <cradek> I'm excited about your program
[01:21:21] <micges> why ?
[01:21:45] <cradek> it is Free software, and people will find it useful
[01:22:06] <micges> I hope so :)
[01:22:12] <cradek> lots of people ask about dxf-gcode conversion
[01:22:45] <owhite> anyone have any suggestions for testing my new M5I20 card, if I dont have anything connected to it yet? Like can I use pyiotest.hal to turn the LEDs on the M5i20 board?
[01:23:01] <micges> ok can you make mm unit of arc-test ?
[01:23:21] <micges> will be faster to me fixit
[01:23:57] <cradek> I don't know how to change units - I draw to the scale I want and disregard the units
[01:24:56] <micges> bad
[01:25:31] <cradek> can you tell me how?
[01:26:10] <micges> wait
[01:26:55] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/units.png
[01:27:10] <cradek> this is all I have and I don't think it matters at all
[01:28:02] <jmkasunich> cradek: what happened to your screen?
[01:28:19] <cradek> ?
[01:28:42] <jmkasunich> its all black.... did you burn it out or something?
[01:30:01] <micges> cradek: have autocad opened ?
[01:30:31] <cradek> yes
[01:30:40] <micges> ok
[01:30:48] <micges> create
[01:30:56] <micges> create new draw
[01:31:08] <micges> type UNITS MM in command line
[01:31:18] <micges> open test arc
[01:31:23] <micges> select all
[01:31:40] <micges> and copy to the new mm unit drawing
[01:31:42] <cradek> the screen units.png is what I get when I tupe UNITS
[01:31:44] <micges> and save
[01:31:50] <cradek> I cannot type 'units mm'
[01:31:59] <micges> hm
[01:32:12] <jmkasunich> cradek: has "Autocad BC"
[01:32:27] <cradek> I don't understand why it matters, the drawing's scale is not important to getting the arc directions right
[01:32:56] <micges> yes but here is 2:30 night :D
[01:33:06] <micges> nevermind :D
[01:33:07] <cradek> pretend it is already in MM but the arcs are very small :-)
[01:33:25] <micges> :P
[01:33:29] <cradek> goodnight! tomorrow is soon enough.
[01:33:46] <cradek> especially soon for you :-)
[01:33:56] <micges> hehe
[01:34:06] <micges> I know but I usually stay long
[01:34:19] <micges> best ideas :P
[01:34:36] <micges> You right
[01:34:54] <micges> goodnight all
[01:34:58] <cradek> goodnight
[01:35:36] <acemi> jepler: I tested the puma interface in simulator mode and I got no error. when I tested this interface in realtime mode in the same machine some time X crash. but I can't repeat this error. sometime it run without problem
[01:37:21] <Hugomatic> I got EMC running again, and its 2.2.3... and it looks like the tool compensation bug was fixed. :-)
[01:37:29] <cradek> jmkasunich: I think I could make fun of your prehistoric cad software too!
[01:37:38] <cradek> Hugomatic: yep thanks for that report
[01:37:54] <acemi> I suspect that the unexcepted realtime delay causes this crash
[01:39:36] <twice2> cradek: you wanted my shipping address for you wwv clock?
[01:39:52] <cradek> haha
[01:40:04] <twice2> yea
[01:40:06] <cradek> you wanted my address for your large check?
[01:40:18] <jmkasunich> cradek: you mean easycad?
[01:40:22] <jmkasunich> its far from prehistoric
[01:40:22] <cradek> which clock do you like?
[01:40:26] <jmkasunich> it has a GUI and everything
[01:40:30] <cradek> heh
[01:42:44] <owhite> you guys have any idea if I can load up other .bit files on the M5i20? There are some precompiled files like hostmot5_4.bit, but I'd like to load up a config with more I/O.
[01:43:22] <maddash> fuck. just fuck.
[01:43:43] <cradek> jmkasunich: with my autocad the gui (menus, icons) are on the tablet - I have one, but no permanent "workstation" to use it - so I use the mouse tablet-emulation
[01:45:09] <jmkasunich> I just thought it funny to see the old white monospace on black
[01:45:56] <cradek> yeah it looks a bit dated, but it still works as well as ever
[01:46:10] <cradek> qemu+freedos is really great for this
[01:46:18] <toast_school> toast_school is now known as toastydeath
[01:46:55] <ds2> lesson from the weekend - a sharp carbide cutter + dawn/water mix cuts acrylic really nice
[01:47:06] <cradek> dawn the soap?
[01:47:24] <ds2> dish soap
[01:47:30] <cradek> interesting!
[01:47:37] <skunkworks> we used windex
[01:47:46] <ds2> applied by a dollar store marinade injector
[01:47:47] <skunkworks> probably more expensive ;)
[01:47:48] <owhite> both have detergent in them.
[01:48:10] <ds2> nice broken up chips of consistant size
[01:48:12] <twice2> cradek:http://www.timeguy.com/cradek-files/clocks/time-and-date-wwvb.jpg
[01:48:12] <owhite> windex is mostly alcohol and soap.
[01:48:34] <cradek> twice2: oh I like that one too :-)
[01:48:43] <twice2> haha
[01:48:51] <cradek> probably my favorite clock - it has been running constantly since I made it
[01:49:01] <ds2> another lesson - strap clamps + blocks is extremely useful on tiny machines when you are operating near the machine's movement envelope
[01:49:26] <toastydeath> ds2: that's good advice for any machine
[01:49:37] <twice2> radekstein
[01:50:00] <ds2> toastydeath: I have never needed that on a real bridge port. the 6inch kurt served all my needs
[01:50:07] <jmkasunich> never?
[01:50:10] <toastydeath> we do it very frequently
[01:50:15] <ds2> yes, never
[01:50:16] <cradek> I think it says 2002 on it so that's 6 years - no sign of age (darkening) on the tubes yet
[01:50:17] <jmkasunich> wow
[01:50:23] <ds2> most of what I do fits well on a 6inch kurt
[01:50:30] <jmkasunich> I probably clamp stuff down more often than I use the vize
[01:50:34] <jmkasunich> vise
[01:50:57] <ds2> jmkasunich: what made you use the clamps over the vise?
[01:51:20] <skunkworks> we held a bunch of plexiglass down with rubber cement.
[01:51:20] <jmkasunich> flexibility and ability to hold large or odd-shaped parts more rigidly
[01:51:36] <skunkworks> iirc it was patterns for a pin router.
[01:51:38] <ds2> but doesn't the clamps get in the way?
[01:51:49] <jmkasunich> you clamp according to the cuts you have in mind
[01:51:51] <ds2> skunkworks: how did you remove rubber cement w/o damaging the plexi?
[01:52:10] <cradek> yes they get in the way :-)
[01:52:12] <skunkworks> I think the plexi still had the protective paper on it.
[01:52:12] <ds2> so the clamps may have to move in mid work?
[01:52:16] <cradek> but, so does a vise
[01:52:22] <jmkasunich> http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_2001_retired_files/Facemil3.jpg
[01:52:31] <jmkasunich> cutting from the side, clamps on top
[01:53:06] <jmkasunich> cutting all around, bolt in center: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/spindle-encoder-mount-1832.jpg
[01:53:26] <ds2> that looks a lot more then 1/4HP ;)
[01:53:47] <jmkasunich> 1.5HP
[01:54:44] <skunkworks> aluminum and a sharp shell mill.... sex
[01:54:46] <jmkasunich> I even use clamps for lathe tools: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/threading-tool-1833.jpg
[01:55:22] <ds2> hmmm
[01:55:22] <SWPadnos> owhite, at the moment there's no other 5i20 config to load
[01:55:27] <toastydeath> there's a lot of work a kurt juest doesn't hold.
[01:55:43] <cradek> that lathe tool mount cracks me up
[01:55:44] <ds2> so you are suppose to keep the stud closer to the work then the step blocks?
[01:55:49] <toastydeath> yes
[01:55:51] <jmkasunich> yes
[01:55:55] <cradek> yes!
[01:55:56] <SWPadnos> owhite, but you can test the card if you have the write-misc (or misc_write or whatever) function in a thread, and you change the LED signal(s)
[01:55:58] <skunkworks> its a lever
[01:55:59] <ds2> 'oops'
[01:55:59] <toastydeath> mechanical advantage
[01:56:01] <jmkasunich> most of the force goes to whatever the stud is closer to
[01:56:13] <SWPadnos> owhite, those are rhe 8 LEDs onthe card, so you have to be looking at the PCI 5i20 itself to see them change
[01:56:25] <ds2> hmmm and the studs are suppose to just long enough to accomodate the nut?
[01:56:28] <SWPadnos> ... are the ...
[01:56:30] <jmkasunich> sometimes I use a vise and clamps: http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_2001_retired_files/Worm09.jpg
[01:56:31] <owhite> SWPadnos: got it.
[01:56:35] <jmkasunich> (and a live center ;-)
[01:56:39] <toastydeath> no, they just need to be short enough for your tools not to hit
[01:56:50] <toastydeath> but the strap clamp kits come with a bunch of different sizes.
[01:56:58] <ds2> ah. i need to get some shorter studs
[01:57:06] <jmkasunich> I have 4 each of 2", 3", 4", 6" and 8" studs
[01:57:07] <ds2> crashed into the studs once last night :(
[01:57:25] <toastydeath> =(
[01:57:27] <skunkworks> jmkasunich: home made hobbin mill?
[01:57:30] <dmess> opps
[01:57:30] <ds2> 8" heh... that's funny 8" is almost my Z travel!
[01:57:37] <jmkasunich> skunkworks: yep
[01:57:43] <skunkworks> cool :)
[01:57:50] <owhite> SWPadnos: would you know how many total I/O I get with the current 5i20 config?
[01:57:51] <toastydeath> that's a homemade facemill?
[01:57:54] <ds2> my "kit" came with 2 lengths of studs - too long and too short :(
[01:58:07] <SWPadnos> owhite, 32 inputs and 16 outputs, I think
[01:58:11] <jmkasunich> ds2: which?
[01:58:13] <SWPadnos> or the other way around
[01:58:23] <jmkasunich> where I'm trimming the edges of a stack of plates?
[01:59:00] <ds2> jmkasunich: it is some import kit that was design for a rotary table (I have a puny mill, std sizes don't work for me)
[01:59:16] <skunkworks> jmkasunich: how did you time it all?
[01:59:21] <ds2> just need to find some 6mm all thread :/
[01:59:22] <jmkasunich> I use 3/8-16, instead of the more common half-inch
[01:59:37] <skunkworks> (spindle to gear)
[01:59:39] <ds2> I use 6mm or 10-32
[01:59:39] <jmkasunich> skunkworks: I gashed it first (rough cut the teeth on a dividing head)
[01:59:42] <cradek> ds2: can you just make some 1/4-20 T-nuts?
[01:59:58] <skunkworks> ah - so it already had some teeth
[02:00:08] <cradek> 1/4 = 6.35mm
[02:00:11] <ds2> cradek: that's the other option... any reason you suggesting 1/4-20?
[02:00:17] <cradek> just because you will not find more common all-thread
[02:00:25] <ds2> ah gotcha
[02:00:30] <cradek> and bigger is better if it fits
[02:00:36] <jmkasunich> skunkworks: http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_2001_retired_files/Worm08.jpg <-- gashing
[02:00:39] <cradek> i bet 1/4 is much stronger than #10
[02:00:51] <ds2> the mill came with 10-32 accessories, the kit is 6mm so it would be nice not to have a 3rd size of stuff
[02:00:53] <jmkasunich> 3/8-16 is the 2nd most common, but probably too big for your machine
[02:01:03] <ds2> 1/4 barely fits the tslots
[02:01:04] <cradek> maxnc is 1/4-20. you could get a kit made for that
[02:01:12] <cradek> yeah same with maxnc
[02:01:29] <ds2> really? interesting. taig says to use 10-32
[02:02:07] <cradek> http://www.positiveflow.com/maxaccess.htm
[02:02:18] <cradek> ($70!!!)
[02:02:45] <jmkasunich> lol, what a rip
[02:02:54] <cradek> well it would take a day+ to make
[02:03:04] <ds2> heh, I can get 1/4-20 threaded rod in 10ft lengths for about $3
[02:03:14] <ds2> just need stock for the tnuts
[02:03:18] <cradek> much longer on a maxnc :-)
[02:03:30] <cradek> I just made a bunch - wish I had known you needed some
[02:03:48] <cradek> I think I made 6 - they are nice ones
[02:03:53] <ds2> those look like regular nuts, thought they were suppose to be spherical?
[02:04:05] <jmkasunich> lol, thats funny.... "SLABBER/SURFACER" 1-1/4" diameter
[02:04:09] <cradek> you can get both
[02:04:09] <ds2> it is easy enough, just need to do it. trying to finish something by a deadline
[02:04:36] <cradek> flat nuts are probably good enough
[02:04:41] <toastydeath> bahaha
[02:04:42] <toastydeath> slabber?
[02:04:50] <jmkasunich> for maxnc
[02:04:56] <ds2> "heavy duty milling vise"
[02:04:57] <cradek> 1-1/4 is **big**
[02:05:01] <jmkasunich> the mill with 10-32 aluminum t-nuts
[02:05:05] <jmkasunich> snort
[02:05:33] <ds2> cradek: did you mill off the tnuts in a strip or just band saw them off afterwards?
[02:05:46] <jmkasunich> I'd saw them off
[02:05:51] <cradek> I used the bandsaw to separate them, but all parts are milled to size
[02:05:55] <toastydeath> you're better off with a 1-1/4" insert mill
[02:06:02] <toastydeath> cheaper to "resharpen"
[02:06:11] <jmkasunich> by the time you mill off 3-4 nuts, you've turned at least one nut into chips
[02:06:20] <cradek> sure, but who cares
[02:06:31] <maddash> SWPadnos: are you there?
[02:06:33] <ds2> yes, but milling off is easier in a CNC mill
[02:06:38] <SWPadnos> maddash, yes
[02:06:47] <jmkasunich> ds2 not neccessarily
[02:06:48] <cradek> I made them out of 1/4 x 1" Al flat bar
[02:06:50] <jmkasunich> gets into clamping again
[02:06:50] <ds2> with softjaws, just come back and have it all done
[02:07:13] <ds2> cradek: aluminum is good enough?
[02:07:20] <jmkasunich> you can clamp a long bar into the vise with enough top sticking up that you can mill the steps that make it a T in the entire length
[02:07:23] <toastydeath> for soft jaws?
[02:07:27] <cradek> sure, you want the T-nut to break before the (Al) table
[02:07:31] <toastydeath> oh
[02:07:33] <jmkasunich> but you can't mill it into individual nuts without hitting the vise
[02:07:40] <ds2> oh good point
[02:07:46] <ds2> jmkasunich: softjaws on the vise
[02:08:22] <jmkasunich> 4" of 1x1 bar will make 4 t-nuts for a machine the size of mine, unless you decide to mill them apart, then it only makes 3
[02:08:48] <maddash> SWPadnos: cool. can you tell me if it's practical to solder a tiny tiny resistor onto a pre-fabbed MCU board?
[02:09:02] <SWPadnos> sure
[02:09:05] <jmkasunich> takes longer too - I don't even bother clean up the saw cut ends, other than deburring
[02:09:07] <cradek> maddash: people hand solder surface mount all the time
[02:09:14] <SWPadnos> I've soldered 0603 resistors onto nvidia video cards :)
[02:09:23] <ds2> takes longer but a proper CNC machine would let me just walk away
[02:09:34] <cradek> jmkasunich: milling and bandsaw take about the same amount of time for me :-)
[02:09:46] <toastydeath> weird.
[02:09:51] <maddash> cradek: you don't understand -- the rabbit module I'm using (4100) is missing a resistor, and these buggers are TINY.
[02:09:51] <jmkasunich> you'd still need to reclamp I bet
[02:10:11] <ds2> band saw here == small hand held saw from HF
[02:10:23] <jmkasunich> oh
[02:10:30] <jmkasunich> that changes things a bit
[02:10:32] <maddash> SWPadnos: I'm asking you because you've probably seen a rabbit board before and have a rough idea of how small the components are
[02:10:41] <jmkasunich> maddash: so what size is it?
[02:10:42] <owhite> SWPadnos: is write-misc a module like hal_ppmc or probe_parport?
[02:10:51] <SWPadnos> yes. that'll be harder because it's conformal coated (at least mine is)
[02:10:52] <cradek> bbl
[02:10:53] <jmkasunich> 1206, 0804, 0603, 0402?
[02:10:57] <ds2> cradek: what kind of mill are you using?
[02:11:02] <SWPadnos> owhite, it's a function in the m5i20 module
[02:11:15] <owhite> oh oh.
[02:11:18] <jmkasunich> ds2: he has a max-nc, and a bport
[02:11:22] <ds2> someone doing a 0402 part by hand? is there going to be a youtube video?
[02:11:27] <SWPadnos> if you use `halcmd show funct m5i20` it'll show you the real name
[02:11:33] <maddash> jmkasunich: I'm not sure. here are the schematics: http://www.rabbit.com/documentation/schemat/090-0228.pdf look at page 3of4
[02:11:38] <SWPadnos> (or is that show func?)
[02:11:40] <jmkasunich> schematic won'
[02:11:46] <jmkasunich> won't tell you the resistor size
[02:12:15] <SWPadnos> the resistors on mine are 0603 and 0402
[02:12:17] <maddash> I don't think my ruler has small enough markings to measure
[02:12:20] <jmkasunich> ok, what resistor is missing?
[02:12:21] <owhite> oh maybe you were thinking of misc-update.
[02:12:29] <maddash> jmkasunich: R7 - "NOT INSTALLED"
[02:12:31] <SWPadnos> owhite, that sounds right
[02:12:35] <ds2> those MaxNC accessories are sure expensive... I made the drill arbor for lot less then their asking
[02:12:41] <maddash> what are these 4-digit numbers you guys are throwing around?
[02:12:45] <jmkasunich> but you want it to be installed? why?
[02:12:52] <jmkasunich> component sizes
[02:13:05] <jmkasunich> a 1206 surface mount resistor is 0.120 long x 0.060 wide
[02:13:17] <jmkasunich> 0603 is 0.060" long x 0.030" wide
[02:13:18] <jmkasunich> etc
[02:13:50] <SWPadnos> maddash, just drop a small piece of wire over the solder blobs that are there already, then heat them individually
[02:13:57] <SWPadnos> then make sure you didn't spread it all over the place ;)
[02:14:13] <maddash> SWPadnos: but the schematics say that a 0 ohm resistor belongs there, not a wire...
[02:14:19] <jmkasunich> zero ohm resistors are a lot easier to find than other kinds
[02:14:23] <ds2> 0ohm == wire!
[02:14:24] <SWPadnos> on my board, it looks like there's one trace between the pads, but it's got soldermask on it, so it should be easy to not short to it
[02:14:26] <jmkasunich> zero ohm!
[02:14:30] <ds2> 0ohm is nicer for automated assembly
[02:14:36] <ds2> 0ohm resistor
[02:14:44] <SWPadnos> zero-ohm resistor = screw-up cover-up
[02:15:04] <owhite> solder =/= 0 ohm
[02:15:11] <SWPadnos> (or future-proofing, when I do it ;) )
[02:15:12] <jmkasunich> or "use the same PCB for different things based on which zero ohm resistors you install"
[02:15:17] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:15:40] <SWPadnos> I think the board I'm looking at is a 3720, so YMMV
[02:15:57] <ds2> it is just marketing appeasement so they can cripple products and dump them for less all in the name of 'market share'
[02:16:13] <maddash> seems like .1mm
[02:16:37] <SWPadnos> it looks like 0603 pads to me, but who knows
[02:16:58] <SWPadnos> you'll need a relatively fine soldering iron, ad non mine the conformal coat does extend to the R7 pads, so it'll stink when you heat it
[02:17:02] <SWPadnos> if yours is the same
[02:17:07] <jmkasunich> maddash: why exactly do you want to install a resistor (or jumper) there?
[02:17:19] <jmkasunich> need to use the BUSY pin for something?
[02:17:35] <maddash> jmkasunich: because that's the BUSY pin of the A/D, and I want to hook it up to the CPU
[02:17:43] <SWPadnos> using the A/D "closed loop"
[02:17:56] <maddash> what does that mean?
[02:18:32] <SWPadnos> ie, you want to see when it's done, so you can read then - rather than waiting for a set amount of time then reading anyway
[02:19:01] <maddash> oh, like a servo, then
[02:19:24] <SWPadnos> yeah, that's why I said "closed loop" ;)
[02:19:35] <SWPadnos> sense when it's ready and read the data - makes sense to me
[02:21:33] <maddash> yay, so I can bring it to my dad's ex-client for soldering
[02:21:43] <SWPadnos> should be fine
[02:21:48] <maddash> thanks, SWPadnos
[02:21:52] <SWPadnos> sure
[02:22:30] <ds2> remember to use a soldering gun and acid core ;)
[02:22:39] <SWPadnos> and a very very hot heat gun
[02:24:43] <maddash> I don't understand why they would leave out that resistor, particularly since they admit to using a 0ohm resistor
[02:25:11] <ds2> is it a configuration resistor?
[02:25:28] <ds2> pull up normall if it is not stuff; grounded if it is stuff
[02:25:43] <ds2> like a hard coded dipswitch
[02:25:54] <SWPadnos> no, it's "don't waste a port pin unless you want the busy signal
[02:25:57] <SWPadnos> "
[02:26:02] <maddash> [sigh]
[02:26:32] <maddash> the BUSY pin is actually connected to an external interrupt-capable pin of the rabbit
[02:26:52] <maddash> so for once, these guys have it almost-right
[02:26:56] <SWPadnos> right - I bet that pin is also connected to the header so you can use it as an external interrupt instead
[02:27:07] <SWPadnos> (external = from the carrier board)
[02:27:52] <ds2> so it is like a /OE signal controlled by the resistor?
[02:28:12] <SWPadnos> the resistor either completes the wire from the A/D busy signal, or it doesn't
[02:28:50] <SWPadnos> if the resistor is unpopulated, the A/D busy line floats, and the PE2 line either is unconnected or goes only to the external bus connector of the rabbit module
[02:29:20] <maddash> what's "/OE"?
[02:29:34] <SWPadnos> not output enable
[02:29:51] <SWPadnos> usually
[02:31:08] <maddash> so they left BUSY out so that pin that it would otherwise occupy could be used on the protoboard?
[02:31:58] <SWPadnos> yes
[02:32:10] <ds2> Oh like that
[02:32:16] <SWPadnos> interrupt pins can be scarce commodities, so exposing as many as possible is a good thing
[02:32:21] <ds2> /OE == active low Ouput Enable
[02:32:23] <maddash> how corrupt
[02:32:30] <SWPadnos> if your application needs the A/D to be interrupt-driven, you populate the resistor
[02:33:23] <maddash> at the very least, they should provide a jumper on the proto-board, but oh no, that'd be too costly
[02:33:34] <maddash> for them
[02:33:57] <SWPadnos> the proto board or on the core module?
[02:34:05] <ds2> I don't see much of a difference convenience wise btwn a jumper block, dipswitch, or a pads that need to be shorted
[02:34:17] <SWPadnos> for them to put a jumper on the dev board, they'd need to run both wires out the main connector, which would be aPITA
[02:34:58] <maddash> ds2: i think the last one is permanent
[02:35:29] <SWPadnos> maddash, no, just remove the resistor/wire if you want to change it back
[02:35:41] <ds2> maddash: not really... but I get influenced by RF folks who can't have a connector in the middle (impedence issues)
[02:35:44] <maddash> 'remove'?
[02:35:47] <SWPadnos> or you could try to find some 0603 switch so you can change it at will
[02:35:52] <maddash> as in, 'tear it off'?
[02:35:56] <SWPadnos> de-solder
[02:35:56] <ds2> nothing that 15seconds + a tweezer can't change
[02:35:58] <SWPadnos> silly
[02:36:07] <maddash> there's such thing?
[02:36:13] <SWPadnos> or a fine-point wire cutter if you choose the wire route
[02:36:22] <eric_U> we have a mobo with some tiny switches, but not that tiny
[02:36:26] <maddash> I always thought that soldering was like welding, on a smaller scale
[02:36:27] <SWPadnos> you don't even need a fine-tip oron to remove 0603 parts
[02:36:33] <SWPadnos> no, you can re-melt it
[02:36:34] <ds2> 2 irons and lift it out like tongs or chopsticks
[02:36:46] <SWPadnos> or one with a tip that's bigger than 0603 ;)
[02:36:49] <eric_U> spoken like a true software weenie
[02:37:03] <ds2> maddash: I been around welders, welding is not permanent.. tack it, inspect, don't like it, angle grind it and repeat
[02:37:21] <eric_U> soldering is a little easier :)
[02:37:22] <ds2> <-- not skilled enough to do 1 iron removal yet
[02:37:44] <SWPadnos> heh - 1-iron removal is easy, depending on how nice you want to leave the board ;)
[02:37:53] <ds2> that's cheating
[02:38:20] <ds2> if that's the case, pop it in an oven and just wipe it off :P
[02:38:20] <SWPadnos> with small parts it's easy, unless you want to save the part also
[02:38:27] <eric_U> I work with a guy that is a master at removing chip resistors
[02:38:31] <SWPadnos> just heat one pad and lift it with the iron
[02:38:36] <SWPadnos> then melt the other side and the part comes off
[02:38:54] <SWPadnos> then hit it with tiny chem-wick and it looks like there's never been a part there
[02:38:59] <eric_U> he used to make resonators
[02:40:16] <ds2> assuming part doesn't snap in half...
[02:41:05] <SWPadnos> if you don't want to save the part (a good assumption for $0.0001 resistors), then don't worry if you get two halves
[02:41:23] <SWPadnos> it's not worth the time to think about it
[02:42:08] <ds2> it does if it drops on the board and you can't find it til it shorts out something else later ;)
[02:42:34] <SWPadnos> heh - yeah, that's the hard part with such tiny parts - you really have to know where they are
[02:42:39] <SWPadnos> at all times
[02:43:33] <ds2> i've had things short out underneath parts from either solder spray or bits of old parts
[02:43:51] <SWPadnos> hmmm. the doctor says "don't do that"
[02:44:26] <acemi> I sent an e-mail to the emc-users list now. It's waiting for moderation because it's big (~400K). It contains my compile log which shows compile time warning. there are 2466 warnings
[02:44:47] <SWPadnos> oh - that's a lot
[02:45:02] <SWPadnos> on ubuntu or some other distro/kernel/compiler combination?
[02:45:24] <acemi> debian lenny, 2.6.22 kernel gcc-4.2 rtai-3.6
[02:45:44] <eric_U> my router just gives up sometimes
[02:45:55] <eric_U> keep thinking I should get a new one
[02:46:39] <acemi> most of them are the same: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to ‘char*’
[02:47:04] <SWPadnos> oh - odd
[02:47:12] <SWPadnos> can you post that somewhere on the net?
[02:47:26] <eric_U> don't you love the guys that are maintaining gcc nowadays
[02:47:26] <SWPadnos> I don't think it's a good thing to send a 400k mail to all the list recipients
[02:47:31] <acemi> yes, 1 min
[02:47:34] <SWPadnos> thanks
[02:48:13] <SWPadnos> I guess the compile farm should probably use the verbose build if we want to see all this stuff (if that's not happening)
[02:51:06] <acemi> http://emrah.com/temp/emc_make.log
[02:51:11] <fenn> i noticed the deprecated conversion warning too
[02:53:44] <eric_U> I see why they did that, a string constant doesn't allocate memory, so if you try to write to it, you will segfault
[02:54:32] <eric_U> or that's the implication I read in the docs
[02:54:38] <SWPadnos> hmmm - well, there's one that could be a problem:
[02:55:04] <SWPadnos> /home/acemi/proje_usb/emc2/20080129/src/hal/drivers/mesa_5i2x/hal_5i2x.c: In function �init_module�:
[02:55:06] <SWPadnos> /home/acemi/proje_usb/emc2/20080129/src/hal/drivers/mesa_5i2x/hal_5i2x.c:185: warning: �pci_find_device� is deprecated (declared at include/linux/pci.h:477)
[02:55:20] <SWPadnos> I think we use pci_find_device in the new 5i2x driver as well
[02:55:32] <eric_U> depricated doesn't mean it doesn't work
[02:55:34] <SWPadnos> and probably in the ax5214 or whatever that other PCI I/O card was
[02:55:50] <SWPadnos> it does mean that it won't work with a later kernel
[02:55:55] <eric_U> maybe
[02:56:24] <SWPadnos> deprecated: still works but we're gonna remove it ;)
[02:56:29] <eric_U> linux developers are the worst enemy of linux sometimes
[02:56:43] <LawrenceG> I hate it when my code gets depricated on....
[02:57:08] <eric_U> nothing like some of the crap microsoft pulls, but still.....
[02:57:29] <ds2> keep it with things or take a snapshot and branch off on your own
[02:57:34] <eric_U> probably doesn't work with selinux
[02:57:42] <ds2> one day you way want to come back to mainline but until then...
[02:57:54] <eric_U> problem is the hackers
[02:58:01] <eric_U> if you don't keep up
[02:58:21] <ds2> usually they get backported if in the kernel
[02:58:25] <SWPadnos> ok - there are only pci_find_device warnings and a redefinition of max and min (in updown.c) - as far as C files go
[02:58:28] <ds2> in userspace, you are screwed anyways
[02:58:50] <SWPadnos> everything else is .cc files, so the extra pedantry of the cpp compiler is getting us into trouble
[02:58:53] <eric_U> userspace doesn't usually see this kind of nonsensical arbitrary change
[02:59:02] <acemi> i sent a copy of e-mail without attachement. I added the link
[02:59:14] <eric_U> you can turn off the warning about char*
[02:59:18] <jepler> -Wno-write-strings ?
[02:59:27] <SWPadnos> dunno
[02:59:40] <ds2> userspace is the biggest problem
[02:59:52] <ds2> you can fall behind on kernels and be mostly okay but space is the front line
[03:00:04] <SWPadnos> ds2, userspace almost never changes, and when it does, it almost always still works with old binaries
[03:01:02] <eric_U> the gcc guys have been making user space developers scramble for the last few years
[03:01:18] <SWPadnos> oh - that's another issue ;)
[03:01:51] <ds2> SWPadnos: userspace is where the security exploits are (usually)
[03:02:19] <eric_U> as far as kernel development goes, I kinda wish they'd lay off a little
[03:02:36] <fenn> acemi: emrah.com keeps timing out
[03:02:48] <ds2> I still use 2.4 kernels so... :P
[03:03:31] <eric_U> that's a little painful
[03:04:21] <acemi> fenn: it works for me but I can install the file in another location too
[03:04:37] <jepler> acemi: http://pastebin.ca/876837 <-- does this suppress the 'deprecated conversion' warning?
[03:06:00] <eric_U> Use pci_get_device instead of pci_find_device as pci device returned from pci_find_device can disappear at any momemt in time.
[03:06:00] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPLinux
[03:06:28] <SWPadnos> http://emrah.com/temp/emc_make.log
[03:06:33] <acemi> jepler: I'll try
[03:06:42] <cradek> I can't seem to load that page
[03:06:58] <eric_U> that's because SWP is special
[03:07:07] <jepler> works for me
[03:07:17] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/emc_make.log.gz
[03:07:42] <cradek> thanks
[03:08:09] <cradek> oh it's one warning over and over?
[03:08:50] <jepler> cradek: yeah, the compiler on acemi's system likes to complain about passing a string literal to a function that takes 'char *', even though this is pretty common style..
[03:08:51] <SWPadnos> works for me, on Windows and Linux
[03:09:00] <jepler> WARNING: /home/acemi/proje_usb/emc2/20080129/src/trivkins: 'kinematicsType' exported twice. Previous export was in /home/acemi/proje_usb/emc2/20080129/src/5axiskins.ko
[03:09:03] <jepler> WARNING: "rt_sem_wait" [/home/acemi/proje_usb/emc2/20080129/src/rtapi.ko] undefined!
[03:09:12] <jepler> ^^^ and these are kernel makefile bugs IMO
[03:09:19] <cradek> yeah
[03:09:19] <SWPadnos> actually, the culprit is stuff like char *msg; msg = "THIS STRING";
[03:09:29] <ds2> is it still kosher to use the pci_* functions?
[03:09:32] <SWPadnos> those should be const char * msg
[03:09:36] <ds2> (within a driver)
[03:09:37] <SWPadnos> or is that char * const msg
[03:09:38] <eric_U> pci_get_device
[03:09:43] <eric_U> instead of find
[03:09:57] <eric_U> find works, but it returns something that is transitory
[03:10:15] <SWPadnos> no - const char * - the pointer is to constant chars (I think)
[03:10:26] <ds2> i mean, thought it was switched over to have having board files list things and not have driver really know about how they are attached?
[03:10:42] <ds2> or is that a non-x86ism?
[03:10:57] <eric_U> that would be a good thing
[03:11:09] <SWPadnos> that may be an optional abstraction, for devices that could be connected via different buses
[03:11:23] <eric_U> but I'm not sure why a pci device shouldn't know it's a pci device
[03:11:29] <SWPadnos> but if you're writing a driver for a PCI card, you should be able to use some PCI function to find it
[03:11:33] <SWPadnos> right
[03:11:41] <acemi> jepler: the diff don't work
[03:11:42] <eric_U> sounds like a theoretical good thing in search of a problem
[03:12:04] <ds2> yes but by not knowing about it, it should be able to transparently handle other similarbusses like cardbus
[03:12:06] <SWPadnos> you could have a PCIe to PCI adapter though (an external card cage), in which case you need the system to be able to find PCI devices at the end of another bus
[03:12:09] <ds2> or maybe even the serial version of PCI
[03:12:22] <jepler> acemi: still gives same warnings? or doesn't work at all?
[03:12:37] <acemi> exactly the same result
[03:12:41] <SWPadnos> the driver writer is expected to know when they can share code across multiple versions and when they can't
[03:12:46] <jepler> acemi: OK .. well I don't have any more guesses in a vacuum
[03:12:52] <ds2> calling pci_* explicitly implies you only care about things really connected to the PCI bus even though there might be other compatable stuff
[03:13:13] <SWPadnos> in that case, your driver is only for the PCI version ...
[03:13:19] <jepler> there's another consideration here, and that's that we at least pay lip service to compatability across a wide range of kernel versions -- in practice, we only compile on 2.6.15 and greater, though.
[03:13:20] <eric_U> how do they handle identification?
[03:13:24] <SWPadnos> or that part of the code is meant for PCI-specific device initialization
[03:13:28] <ds2> so the religious fevor of avoiding knowledge inside the driver is limited to non-x86 stuff
[03:13:51] <SWPadnos> no, it's just got its place is all
[03:14:00] <ds2> your driver is suppose to register a name and the code in arch is suppose to handle finding it and telling you about it
[03:14:22] <eric_U> dear OS, here is my pci vendor id and device id, please tell me where to find my hardware, please?
[03:14:33] <SWPadnos> if you have a device that needs to know how it's connected (for example, for optimizations), then the driver needs to be able to get that information from the system so it can provide it to the card
[03:14:57] <eric_U> Microsoft tells people not to name their drivers, it now takes pages of code to open a driver
[03:15:06] <SWPadnos> that's nice
[03:15:30] <eric_U> as opposed to "CreateFile(\\\\my driver)
[03:15:46] <ds2> there are benefits to both ways but my point was more of what's the current trend
[03:16:15] <eric_U> current trend is to follow foofoo theoretical nonsense
[03:16:56] <eric_U> although making everything work the same is a good thing
[03:16:57] <SWPadnos> there are times when not knowing how a device is connected is useful (like CD-RW drive), and other times when it's critical (like a 5i20) ;)
[03:17:01] <ds2> if you have a PCI card reduce to pure IP and resynth as part of a new x86 processor core... it would be nice not have ot redo the driver.just drop in a few structures in you arch/i386/board-XyZ and the driver finds it
[03:17:12] <acemi> I go to sleep, bye
[03:17:15] <jepler> 'night acemi
[03:17:45] <eric_U> I'll have to check that out
[03:18:14] <ds2> but I been swimming in arch/arm mostly
[03:18:16] <eric_U> it would also hopefully reduce the number of changes you have to make to your driver
[03:18:29] <eric_U> due to foo-foo theoretical nonsense wars
[03:20:04] <eric_U> ds2: are there good discussions of current hardware driver development?
[03:20:37] <ds2> eric_U: nope, just indirectly from comments rejecting patch that are submitted upstream
[03:21:35] <ds2> just recently, there was a big effort to make drivers not know about i2c addresses but have it contained in the stuff in the board file... think it has something to do with sharing and being able to send the patches eventually to mainline
[03:23:44] <eric_U> sad thing is, the way development has been going, they'll do some device independent architecture, realize its shortcomings, and do it again
[03:24:28] <ds2> that's a 2.7 feature ;)
[03:24:36] <eric_U> I gotta get my milling machine back online
[03:35:33] <twice2> the new wizard is good idea, imo. might inspire next gen emc :)
[03:37:35] <eric_U> I had some snarky comment about allowing people to design their own screens in VB, but I'll just leave it at that
[03:39:18] <eric_U> I still wonder how long it's going to take before Ballmer kills Mach
[04:08:59] <Jymmm> SWPGot the button in.... NICE.... 24V LED AC/DC, one set each of NO and NC contacts
[04:09:31] <SWPLinux> cool
[04:10:04] <Jymmm> and finger guard
[06:02:26] <micges> logger_emc: bookmark
[06:02:26] <micges> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-01-29.txt
[06:02:47] <toastydeath> ffffffffff
[07:28:46] <micges> hi all
[08:48:52] <micges> loger_emc: bookmark
[08:49:05] <micges> logger_emc: bookmark
[08:49:05] <micges> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-01-29.txt
[09:04:57] <alex_joni> hi micges
[09:11:07] <micges> hi alex
[09:11:46] <alex_joni> I saw you were looking for me earlier
[09:12:00] <alex_joni> (but it was 2am here, and I was happily asleep)
[09:17:31] <micges> ok
[09:17:53] <micges> I wanted you to look my import
[09:18:31] <micges> http://www.emc-files.webpark.pl/import.tar.gz
[09:18:53] <micges> post dxf files to ngc
[09:19:46] <micges> check irc talk about 2 am with cris and test program if you want(have time)
[09:32:28] <alex_joni> micges: looks nice :)
[09:32:32] <alex_joni> (from what I read..)
[09:34:06] <alex_joni> especially the GPL v2 part
[09:35:29] <micges> :)
[09:41:14] <micges> cradek: around ?
[09:50:37] <archivist> a bit early for him
[09:51:06] <archivist> or late :)
[09:52:57] <archivist> alex_joni, I saw your comment about axis filter this morning,
[10:05:16] <alex_joni> micges: cradek is usually around in 3-4 hours from now
[10:05:41] <alex_joni> archivist: axis filter?
[10:09:15] <micges> ok
[10:13:10] <archivist> "Jan 28 19:58:10 alex_joni ARCHIvist: hmm, then we need http filters for AXIS :)
[10:13:10] <archivist> "
[10:15:17] <archivist> I did a bit more gerber decoding and finding oddities in Kicad output last night/this morning
[10:20:34] <chronic> yo yo
[10:20:37] <chronic> i'm
[10:20:38] <chronic> on
[10:21:15] <chronic> i'm on my xbox... i ws thinking it would be sweet to have emc running on this with a usb stepper driver
[10:21:27] <chronic> xbox-linux-cnc?
[10:21:52] <chronic> is it ffeasable?
[10:22:24] <archivist> emc uses a realtime kernel
[10:22:59] <archivist> and doesnt use usb because of latency issues with it
[10:23:00] <chronic> there is a debian distro for the xbox
[10:23:25] <chronic> i wonder if the realtime patches would compile with the xebian kerne?
[10:23:41] <archivist> does it have a parallel port
[10:23:51] <chronic> noooope
[10:24:06] <archivist> or pci bus
[10:24:18] <chronic> it does have some sort of pci bus
[10:24:31] <chronic> i bet i could solder tiny wires to it somehow
[10:24:51] <chronic> maybe a pci stepper driver
[10:24:58] <chronic> ha!
[10:25:21] <chronic> i guess a lot of work for something so slow
[10:25:32] <chronic> it's a 733 celly processor though
[10:25:38] <archivist> yes just use an old pc
[10:26:00] <archivist> 733 is fast enough for steppers
[10:26:32] <chronic> oh i know i have ubuntu-emc running on a 233 p2!
[10:26:42] <chronic> and axis is usable
[10:26:52] <chronic> the gui***
[10:26:59] <chronic> running a 3 axis mini mill
[10:27:28] <chronic> but the xbox is so small and tidy... i was jsut pondering
[10:27:30] <renesis> i couldnt get it running on a machine like light
[10:27:51] <renesis> er, that light
[10:27:55] <renesis> sry, need sleeps
[10:28:22] <chronic> i get up to ten ipm from 3 small steppers
[10:28:56] <chronic> the limiting factor being my driver
[11:26:16] <slarba_> hello
[11:27:01] <slarba_> hmm.
[11:27:14] <slarba_> does linuxcnc support RTA Mind Series stepper motor controllers?
[11:41:04] <alex_joni> slarba_: got a link for those?
[11:42:04] <alex_joni> slarba_: like this? http://www.totalmotionsystems.co.uk/products/sdrives/mindb.html
[11:42:22] <alex_joni> if they are step & direction as the one I pasted, then sure.. I see no reason why they wouldn't work
[11:43:13] <alex_joni> slarba_: if it's the MIND T model, then it's not as simple
[11:43:34] <alex_joni> those seem to accept serial RS232 or RS485 connections
[11:44:11] <alex_joni> so you would have to write a bit of code to make them work with emc2 (and I can't say for sure they are suitable for emc2, without seeing a manual.. which I can't find on their site)
[11:53:44] <slarba_> yeah, my controllers are MIND S
[11:53:52] <slarba_> 4-axis
[11:54:44] <slarba_> no, MIND T
[11:54:46] <slarba_> sorry
[11:55:43] <slarba_> they're programmable, with 128 memory locations for motion commands, simple repetition commands etc
[12:07:25] <alex_joni> so you have a manual describing the protocol?
[12:07:58] <alex_joni> if so, you might be able to adapt emc2 to work with them (I suspect it'll take a bit of work though..)
[12:37:39] <slarba_> yes I'm familiar with the protocol
[12:38:12] <slarba_> I actually have a working cnc machine. the software and motion command interpreter is written in python+pyserial :)
[12:57:09] <archivist> joint 3 following bugzez dey be gone, just tested 2.2.3
[13:04:45] <alex_joni> archivist: great
[13:05:38] <archivist> I managed to add one, which has been cured by 2.2.3
[13:09:58] <BigJohnT> alex_joni: M66 bug-be-gone
[13:10:43] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: yay :)
[13:10:59] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT off to breakfast
[13:11:36] <archivist> can you fix my hardware bugz too (bug 1: machine needs finishing)
[13:23:30] <alex_joni> * alex_joni marks bug #1 as works for me & pending
[13:23:45] <archivist> hehe
[13:26:31] <archivist> high weight overloading on the table test, passes, "design" weight 5-10lb ish seems happy at 40lb+
[13:42:47] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=401483#post401483
[13:51:18] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT off to my machine shop talk to you guys later
[13:52:07] <skunkworks> big john should have put a smiley face on his reply.. Those mach people are finatics
[13:52:13] <eric_U> that's funny, I have bug #1 too
[13:53:05] <eric_U> daisy.ngc come with the live cd?
[13:53:10] <skunkworks> yes
[13:53:24] <eric_U> does it work with a 3 axis machine?
[13:53:27] <skunkworks> needs 4 axis though - unless you modify it
[13:53:30] <skunkworks> ^
[13:53:33] <eric_U> eh
[13:53:58] <eric_U> I guess it needs 4 axes because of the harmony?
[13:54:23] <eric_U> I've gotta say, that is the best sounding cnc music I've heard yet
[13:54:56] <eric_U> some people would probably download the livecd just to play it on their machine
[13:56:16] <skunkworks> I know I would ;)
[13:56:44] <skunkworks> I am sure the video is only 3 axis... we should get cradek to make a video on his machine.
[13:59:05] <eric_U> where is the code on a vanilla emc install?
[14:00:22] <skunkworks> code?
[14:00:36] <eric_U> daisy.ngc
[14:01:14] <eric_U> sorry, locate worked
[14:01:28] <skunkworks> ah :)
[14:03:38] <eric_U> ok, so I have no clue what is going on in that file :)
[14:05:10] <eric_U> no wonder it doesn't work on mach
[14:05:53] <skunkworks> heh :)
[14:10:19] <eric_U> I have a lot to learn
[14:12:49] <skunkworks> BigJohnT: you should have smiley faced your post.. those mach guys are fanatical..
[14:12:54] <skunkworks> oops :)
[14:13:15] <BigJohnT> LOL you must have read my post
[14:13:41] <skunkworks> * skunkworks is samco.
[14:16:41] <eric_U> we're usually so nice to the mach fanatics, a few reminders that we have better music isn't going to hurt them
[14:16:55] <skunkworks> :)
[14:18:36] <BigJohnT> I guess if you paid for your software you would be a fanitic too LOL
[14:18:46] <eric_U> it's too bad that nobody seems to make a step/dir to analog converter any more
[14:18:59] <eric_U> $150 not that much in the greater scheme of things
[14:19:06] <archivist> I paid for this s** it must be betta!
[14:19:35] <eric_U> if windows didn't scare the crap out of me, I'd think more seriously about it
[14:20:36] <BigJohnT> I like windoz and make my living using it but I still would not play CNC with it...
[14:21:10] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT added :D to my post
[14:21:21] <eric_U> good job :)
[14:21:34] <ALS> buy a chevy or get the cadillac for free?
[14:24:17] <eric_U> main reason is that lots of people can barely use windows, linux scares them
[14:25:16] <JymmmEMC> eric_U: ther is the $200 linux pc from walmert now
[14:25:20] <eric_U> the fanatic fan base probably convinces a lot of people too
[14:26:04] <eric_U> it's not the money though JymmmEMC, I'd say some of those guys think that linux is communis'
[14:26:27] <eric_U> positively un-American
[14:26:41] <Vq^> in reallity only a few of us are communists
[14:26:42] <JymmmEMC> eric_U: No, I mean that an inexpensive PC that is sold in a mass distrobution chain is using linux.
[14:27:13] <eric_U> that's for the people that don't know enough to be askeered
[14:27:35] <ALS> feelin sorry for Bill
[14:28:10] <JymmmEMC> from what I've heard, it's really not that bad.... comes with Open Office, mail, drawing, etc. For the mainstream they don't need much more.
[14:29:02] <eric_U> linux is probably better for most people
[14:29:16] <JymmmEMC> OH btw... MacBook Pro + Leopard + Boot Camp... NICE
[14:29:23] <eric_U> never understood why I should spend thousands for a home computer and software
[14:29:52] <Vq^> eric_U: for the support?
[14:29:59] <eric_U> just doesn't make economic sense to me
[14:30:34] <JymmmEMC> eric_U: Computers are the only thing that I know that cost thousands today, and are worth hundreds within six months.
[14:30:42] <Vq^> eric_U: if a screw is loose on your chassi or one of the desktop icons looks bad you can always give the seller a call
[14:31:06] <eric_U> one screw holding the case on is more than enough
[14:31:07] <JymmmEMC> Vq^: lol
[14:31:30] <archivist> whats a case
[14:31:38] <eric_U> in fact, I didn't use cases until I spilled coke on my machine and ruined my ethernet card
[14:31:44] <archivist> * archivist has two caseless here
[14:31:53] <JymmmEMC> archivist: the thing your chinese food comes in
[14:31:57] <eric_U> then I said "where's that darn case?"
[14:32:03] <Vq^> :)
[14:32:16] <archivist> I did lose one to coffee
[14:32:28] <eric_U> my case isn't bolted together though
[14:32:42] <JymmmEMC> bolts?
[14:32:43] <archivist> got a free mobo for it though
[14:33:37] <Vq^> * Vq^ has amazingly never lost anything to coffee
[14:33:38] <archivist> inside of case==another shelf to store stuff
[14:33:41] <eric_U> one of the guys at work got a computer out of the trash, he's been using it for almost 2 years now
[14:34:03] <eric_U> that thing must be incredibly obsolete
[14:34:33] <eric_U> my case has a stack of dirty dishes on top
[14:34:47] <archivist> My laserjet4 is ex trash
[14:35:40] <alex_joni> skunkworks: got a link for BigJohnT's post?
[14:36:03] <skunkworks> 2 screws hold in harddrives. 1 screw holds the case cover - if exists.
[14:36:09] <BigJohnT> one moment
[14:36:14] <ALS> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=401483#post401483
[14:36:25] <eric_U> I've been trying to use more hardware to hold the internals together
[14:36:30] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51348
[14:36:39] <eric_U> computer zen thing
[14:37:05] <skunkworks> the only thing I really put all the screws in - is the motherboard.
[14:44:00] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: ha :)
[14:44:36] <BigJohnT> alex_joni: I thought it fit...
[14:45:03] <alex_joni> like a wet kipper
[14:45:13] <BigJohnT> lol
[14:48:46] <archivist> * archivist plays daisy, wee
[14:49:04] <archivist> oo that means I have emc
[14:49:47] <skunkworks> who needs a case.. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/pentIII2.JPG
[14:50:31] <eric_U> I remember the technical guy from Sun with a motherboard bolted to the side of his desk
[14:50:55] <eric_U> they couldn't make the machines fast enough, so if he had a full machine the sales guys would take it from him and ship it
[14:51:11] <BigJohnT> archivist has emc cause if he had mach he could not play daisy
[14:51:32] <eric_U> what happens if you try to run that on a machine that only has xyz?
[14:51:56] <archivist> * archivist waits to wind up the rest here when they return to musac
[14:52:04] <archivist> it errors
[14:52:15] <eric_U> so you have a 4 axis machine?
[14:52:16] <archivist> and doesnt sound good
[14:52:24] <archivist> yes
[14:52:52] <archivist> well building it, some bits "loose"
[14:53:20] <alex_joni> archivist: that's a dual CPU board?
[14:53:25] <eric_U> I don't think my mill will play it too well, but I guess it can't hurt anything
[14:53:41] <archivist> alex_joni, er where
[14:53:47] <alex_joni> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/pentIII2.JPG
[14:53:53] <eric_U> that was skunky's comp
[14:53:53] <alex_joni> or is that samco's ?
[14:54:01] <skunkworks> yes :)
[14:54:15] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is tired.. time to go home actually
[14:54:16] <eric_U> I like the fans
[14:54:36] <alex_joni> especially the case cooler on the PSU
[14:54:40] <archivist> alex_joni, I have mine visible somewhere its dual, cant remember the url atm
[14:54:53] <skunkworks> yah - they where just screwed onto the heatsinks.. the heatsinks where from slower slot1 processors.
[14:54:56] <eric_U> my son's computer is kinda like that, I put a 120 mm case fan blowing on it
[14:55:04] <alex_joni> archivist: for duals there are special RT kernels.. but they aren't quite perfect
[14:55:17] <alex_joni> it's harder to make a kernel for SPM machines, and have it run on all possible hardware
[14:55:23] <archivist> alex_joni, emc is on a single
[14:55:35] <alex_joni> archivist: the default kernel .. yes
[14:55:50] <alex_joni> but if you're happy with the performance.. don't sweat it
[14:55:52] <eric_U> the SMP rt kernels haven't worked for me on single processor machines
[14:55:59] <alex_joni> obviously not :D
[14:56:04] <eric_U> but I haven't tried recently
[14:56:17] <archivist> I browse on a dual pentium II and have emc on an Athlon 850
[14:58:07] <skunkworks> eric_U: because your hardware is too old :)
[14:58:27] <eric_U> possibly
[15:01:19] <eric_U> skunkworks: those are PIII
[15:01:22] <eric_U> ?
[15:08:34] <skunkworks> yes
[15:08:53] <skunkworks> 800mhz iirc
[15:15:43] <BigJohnT> * BigJohnT listening to Jefferson Airplane's Lather
[15:29:14] <skunkworks> BigJohnT: brown-noser ;) http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51436
[15:30:04] <BigJohnT> LOL
[15:30:59] <BigJohnT> You should be working : )
[15:33:05] <maddash> argh my dad's soldering buddy is in New Mexico
[15:33:44] <maddash> now I have to buy a soldering kit, and flip a coin to see which one of us (dad and me) will do the soldering
[15:34:49] <maddash> because I have absolutely no experience soldering, and my dad's a brutish fellow with no regard for the small and fine things (figuratively and literally) of life
[16:12:34] <micges> finally after work :)
[16:13:00] <micges> cradek: I fixed import
[16:13:28] <micges> in a few minutes targz will be available
[16:13:42] <alex_joni> micges: know anything about building debs?
[16:14:01] <micges> no
[16:14:10] <micges> why ?
[16:14:15] <alex_joni> ok, then we'll see how to make it work
[16:14:34] <alex_joni> I'm thinking about making a deb package for it, so it can be installed easily by emc2 ubuntu users
[16:14:48] <alex_joni> then you only have to add it as an AXIS filter, and open dxf's with it :)
[16:14:58] <BigJohnT> Alibre Design Professional is on sale...
[16:15:05] <alex_joni> (it's probably not that advanced/stable yet, but I'm sure it'll get there)
[16:15:18] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: I'll wait for the Expert version, thank you
[16:15:43] <BigJohnT> what is in the expert version?
[16:16:07] <alex_joni> CAM
[16:16:13] <micges> alex_joni: I think that I can obtain building debs :)
[16:16:23] <BigJohnT> I have the CAM
[16:16:33] <BigJohnT> for 30 days
[16:16:42] <alex_joni> any good?
[16:17:04] <BigJohnT> only had a few minutes to try it out the other day
[16:17:11] <BigJohnT> can't comment on it yet
[16:17:24] <BigJohnT> somewhat intutive
[16:27:06] <BigJohnT> http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz/
[16:27:20] <BigJohnT> http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3101/is_n5_v63/ai_9000692/pg_1
[16:27:35] <alex_joni> bbl
[16:33:04] <skunkworks> we have a big old oak desk that we got from from a friend. It came out of a school. It has a door bell type switch drilled into the top. I thought - that would be a cool button to start the computer. totally mount it within the desk somewhere..
[16:33:23] <skunkworks> (motherboard and supply
[16:33:24] <skunkworks> )
[16:36:31] <skunkworks> we wonder what the button was for - we think a trap door for bad kids.
[18:01:11] <micges> bbl
[19:02:53] <tomp2> http://www.ozbricks.com/bobfay/om4.htm 5 axis lego mill
[19:04:24] <tomp2> hah! and a cnc toast burner ( elvis on toast )
[19:58:19] <Hugomatic> Using EMC 2.2.3, I cannot use the numpad on my keyboard to set the numbers in the "Touch Off" dialog. Is this a valid bug candidate?
[20:00:03] <jepler> yeah though I don't think it's a new bug
[20:00:33] <Hugomatic> thanks jepler.
[20:04:33] <Hugomatic> I'm looking at the axis.py. I'm having a hard time trying to understand the link between the 3D lines and the gcode. Does every line have a list of attributes, that includes the gcode line number?
[20:05:46] <Hugomatic> Or is there a high level doc about axis.py?
[20:31:18] <jepler> Hugomatic: no, there's no documentation about the structure of axis.py
[20:31:21] <jepler> it is what it is
[20:31:55] <Hugomatic> jepler: And it is quite nice, I must say. Is there a way to run axis within a debugger? I use Pydev and I don't think I can attach to a running AXIS.
[20:40:12] <Hugomatic> Sometimes my screens are full of lines, and I can't see the details (image_to_gcode with multiple passes). I'd like AXIS to be able to "hide" certain lines, based on the gcode line number, or time, or % (show only lines between 2367-3000 for example, or between 2min3s and 5min10s). Its like an extended selection, I guess.
[20:41:09] <Hugomatic> I believe I could hack it, if I tried
[20:58:04] <jepler> Hugomatic: beats me, I don't use pydev
[21:02:21] <Hugomatic> jepler: are you like Linus, and you don't use a debugger either?
[21:07:06] <jepler> I don on C/C++ -- them's hard languages
[21:07:12] <jepler> I do on C/C++, that is
[21:09:58] <Hugomatic> jepler: all right, then, I'll stop whining. gedit and 'print' will be my only friends. I'll let you know how it goes.
[21:59:07] <micges> cradek: around ?
[21:59:18] <billy_kid2> hi all
[21:59:25] <alex_joni> hi
[22:00:50] <billy_kid2> i have problem with english
[22:00:54] <billy_kid2> sorry
[22:01:44] <billy_kid2> i'm to configure home
[22:01:52] <billy_kid2> try
[22:02:10] <billy_kid2> by index pulse
[22:02:16] <billy_kid2> encoder
[22:02:30] <alex_joni> what card?
[22:02:41] <billy_kid2> ahhhhh
[22:02:51] <billy_kid2> parallel not work?
[22:03:03] <billy_kid2> two parallel port
[22:03:16] <alex_joni> sure.. that works too
[22:03:36] <billy_kid2> all other signal are ok
[22:06:17] <billy_kid2> i need one pin for home switch + one for index pulse?
[22:07:50] <alex_joni> and another 2 for the encoder
[22:09:56] <billy_kid2> i use servomotor dc closed loop
[22:10:15] <billy_kid2> step dir as stepper
[22:10:37] <billy_kid2> work fine
[22:11:55] <alex_joni> billy_kid2: I don't think you can home to a home switch and index pulse without an encoder feedback
[22:12:47] <billy_kid2> ah
[22:12:55] <jepler> yes, because you have to know the exact machine position from encoder feedback at the moment the index pulse is seen -- you don't get that if something outside the PC is actually handling the encoder, or if you're using a stepper.
[22:13:13] <billy_kid2> not possible only index pulse
[22:14:09] <billy_kid2> used as a switch
[22:15:11] <alex_joni> billy_kid2: you can use the index pulse as a switch
[22:15:27] <alex_joni> and2 between the index pulse (with a latch) and the home switch
[22:15:35] <alex_joni> but you'll need to go very slowly for this to make sense
[22:15:48] <billy_kid2> yes
[22:16:04] <alex_joni> not sure about the index only homing which is recent
[22:16:14] <alex_joni> maybe that can work without encoder.. but I doubt it
[22:16:35] <alex_joni> jog by hand near the switch (or use the switch like a G38.2 probe)
[22:16:47] <alex_joni> then home with index only.. slowly travel towards index pulse
[22:17:32] <billy_kid2> index pulse is very short...
[22:17:43] <alex_joni> that's why I said very slowly
[22:17:54] <alex_joni> and you can put a latch on the index.. but it won't be as accurate
[22:18:09] <billy_kid2> sure
[22:18:12] <alex_joni> (the idea with index pulse is that you usually have a hardware counter for the encoder,
[22:18:22] <alex_joni> then when the index pulse comes the hardware counter resets the count
[22:18:29] <alex_joni> even if emc2 didn't notice the index pulse yet
[22:18:42] <alex_joni> when it will notice, the machine might have moved on
[22:18:57] <alex_joni> but the encoder has been reset at 0, and now it know the precise position)
[22:20:04] <billy_kid2> i leave home switch
[22:21:42] <alex_joni> billy_kid2: how fast are you going?
[22:21:51] <alex_joni> pulses/second
[22:23:50] <billy_kid2> input scale 200
[22:24:10] <alex_joni> billy_kid2: max speed?
[22:24:52] <billy_kid2> 5000 mm minute
[22:25:14] <alex_joni> 83 mm / sec
[22:25:34] <alex_joni> -> 16600 steps /sec
[22:25:47] <alex_joni> is that the same as the encoder resolution?
[22:26:17] <billy_kid2> x and y have 1000 ppr
[22:26:34] <billy_kid2> y and z sorry
[22:26:41] <billy_kid2> x 800 ppr
[22:26:49] <alex_joni> 1 rotation = 1 mm ?
[22:27:17] <billy_kid2> 3,2 mm
[22:27:34] <alex_joni> so you need 1000 * 83 / 3,2
[22:27:50] <alex_joni> 25000 pulses/second
[22:28:04] <alex_joni> if you run the base_thread at 10-15000, you can count that in software
[22:28:19] <billy_kid2> with encoder 500 pulse double velocity
[22:30:38] <billy_kid2> i can post the link of my servo?
[22:31:11] <dave_1> alex??
[22:31:16] <alex_joni> billy_kid2: G340?
[22:31:21] <alex_joni> dave_1: dave??
[22:31:24] <alex_joni> hi :P
[22:31:36] <dave_1> x axis now has a clue.
[22:31:58] <alex_joni> does the index work?
[22:32:37] <dave_1> index does work
[22:32:44] <alex_joni> nice :)
[22:32:46] <dave_1> seeks home at max velo
[22:33:04] <dave_1> and then goes klunk, klunk
[22:33:20] <alex_joni> huh?
[22:33:44] <dave_1> HOME_LATCH_VEL is set for -0.01 or -0.001 (tried both)
[22:33:45] <billy_kid2> ehm
[22:34:05] <alex_joni> dave_1: rewind..
[22:34:13] <alex_joni> it starts looking for the switch first.
[22:34:13] <billy_kid2> ok
[22:34:25] <billy_kid2> yes
[22:34:33] <billy_kid2> later the pulse
[22:35:06] <billy_kid2> how configure index pin?
[22:36:31] <alex_joni> billy_kid2: dave_1 is running a motenc card.. and counting encoders too
[22:36:58] <billy_kid2> :)
[22:37:17] <billy_kid2> http://elm-chan.org/works/smc/report_e.html
[22:37:43] <alex_joni> doesn't work here
[22:40:27] <dave_1> elm site comes up fine here
[22:40:58] <billy_kid2> very very good servo
[22:41:19] <billy_kid2> i have 4 driver
[22:41:27] <dave_1> alex ... I'm wondering if I have the ini file set right for home on index
[22:42:12] <alex_joni> dave_1: it sure seemed like that
[22:42:37] <dave_1> OK
[22:42:50] <dave_1> then something else is weird
[22:43:11] <alex_joni> dave_1: what emc2 version ?
[22:43:15] <alex_joni> is it 2.2.3?
[22:43:16] <dave_1> 2.2.2
[22:43:22] <alex_joni> ok, shouldn't matter
[22:43:47] <alex_joni> can you describe what happens?
[22:43:54] <billy_kid2> tanks i go
[22:44:04] <alex_joni> billy_kid2: see you, sorry I can't be of more help
[22:44:05] <billy_kid2> sleep
[22:44:13] <alex_joni> billy_kid2: where from?
[22:44:21] <billy_kid2> italy
[22:44:26] <billy_kid2> la spezia
[22:44:36] <alex_joni> we used to have some italian guys in here
[22:44:48] <alex_joni> xemet from sicily, and giacus from calabria iirc
[22:44:59] <billy_kid2> yesssssss
[22:45:10] <billy_kid2> xemet great head!!
[22:45:19] <alex_joni> maybe you can ask them when they're online.. easier with the language
[22:45:31] <alex_joni> dave_1: there are a couple of states in the homing mechanism..
[22:45:43] <dave_1> position axis in middle so there is plenty of travel
[22:45:52] <alex_joni> ok.. you hit home on X
[22:45:53] <dave_1> mouse home button
[22:46:10] <alex_joni> it starts to travel towards home switch
[22:46:14] <dave_1> x travels negative at 90 ips
[22:46:38] <dave_1> hits index and seems to oscillate a bit then turns green
[22:46:46] <alex_joni> hold your horses
[22:46:47] <dave_1> no home switch .... yet
[22:46:54] <alex_joni> ah.. index only?
[22:46:58] <dave_1> yes
[22:47:25] <alex_joni> then I think you need HOME_SEARCH_VEL 0
[22:47:44] <dave_1> ah! I'll go try that ... brb
[22:49:12] <billy_kid2> good nigth :-))
[22:49:51] <alex_joni> buonna notte
[22:50:05] <billy_kid2> grazie
[22:55:58] <maddash> "17:45:10 <billy_kid2> xemet great head!!" wtf?
[22:57:56] <alex_joni> smart person
[22:58:04] <alex_joni> try not to be so narrow minded
[22:58:16] <alex_joni> bet your italian is way worse than his english
[22:58:39] <maddash> mille de graze
[22:59:18] <maddash> why would anyone want to go for a VFD nowadays?
[23:00:19] <archivist> price probably
[23:00:41] <maddash> cost-saving or pricey?
[23:00:53] <archivist> saving
[23:01:06] <maddash> they're crappy character displays, with a backlight
[23:01:45] <archivist> VFd in here is normally Variable Frequency Drive
[23:01:58] <maddash> oh, haha
[23:01:59] <alex_joni> you mean CRT?
[23:02:08] <maddash> I mean, vacuum fluor disp
[23:02:18] <alex_joni> cathode ray tube
[23:02:38] <alex_joni> imo they're not really cheap, and they use a lot of power
[23:02:42] <alex_joni> and take up too much space
[23:02:53] <archivist> no crappy green 7 seg
[23:02:56] <maddash> no doubt
[23:03:10] <maddash> dumbass client
[23:03:28] <maddash> fuck this, I'm going make him use an LCD
[23:03:55] <SWPadnos> VFD are more readable, and waaaaay brighter
[23:04:03] <SWPadnos> LCD are the same resolution in general
[23:04:34] <maddash> are you kidding? 320x240 vs. ~4x20?
[23:04:57] <alex_joni> there are text and graphic lcd's
[23:05:02] <maddash> besides, can't the LCD contrast be turned up to match the VFD?
[23:05:06] <SWPadnos> oh, then the comparison is between graphic modules and character modules, not between LCD and VFD
[23:05:06] <alex_joni> and there's OLED displays.. also quite nice
[23:05:15] <maddash> alex_joni: but no graphic VFDs
[23:05:36] <maddash> what's the "O"?
[23:05:39] <alex_joni> maddash: dunno.. I like graphic LCD's with 2-3 colours
[23:05:44] <SWPadnos> like these: http://www.futaba.com/products/display_modules/module_products/graphic/index.asp
[23:05:45] <alex_joni> organic? or something like htat
[23:05:48] <SWPadnos> O means Organic
[23:05:49] <archivist> organic
[23:06:04] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_light-emitting_diode
[23:06:09] <SWPadnos> beight but lower power - they almost glow without any power applied
[23:06:11] <maddash> * maddash has a picture of asians being crammed into an led
[23:06:12] <SWPadnos> brigt
[23:06:15] <SWPadnos> bright
[23:06:30] <alex_joni> POLED, TOLED, SOLED and all other families
[23:06:55] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[23:07:01] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: can you help dave_1 ?
[23:07:11] <SWPadnos> I don't know :)
[23:07:21] <SWPadnos> motenc and homing types aren't my specialty
[23:07:27] <SWPadnos> but I can stall until jmkasunich gets here ;)
[23:09:03] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:11:17] <dave_1> hi swp
[23:11:25] <dave_1> just got back from shop
[23:11:37] <maddash> damnit, mouserrr won't let me sort by $
[23:11:42] <dave_1> things are really erratic
[23:12:12] <dave_1> it acts like it wants to do a standard home on switch + index
[23:12:38] <dave_1> takes off neg stops and comes back a ways and homes.
[23:13:04] <dave_1> No home switches are hooked up so I think it is seeing noise
[23:13:13] <dave_1> night alex
[23:14:02] <dave_1> I really intend to use home switches but was trying the home on index for fun and to see if it works
[23:14:04] <SWPadnos> dave_1, I don't remember the ini parameters you need to do index-only homing
[23:14:44] <eric__u> there has to be a "don't do that" joke in there somewhere, but I'm worn out right now
[23:15:45] <dave_1> basically I think ... home search vel = 0, home latch vel 0.01 (i.e. slow) home ingnore limits yes
[23:18:12] <dave_1> I guess tomorrow is dedicated to wiring the home switch stuff ... or at least connect the opto-22 board and pull stuff high
[23:18:40] <eric__u> you just have one index?
[23:19:12] <micges> logger_emc: bookmark
[23:19:12] <micges> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2008-01-29.txt
[23:19:15] <dave_1> I'm only working with the X axis .. and yes there is only one index pulse/rev on the encoder
[23:19:34] <eric__u> so you're just going less than a rev
[23:19:59] <dave_1> it should go less than one turn ... yes
[23:20:24] <dave_1> ideally with a home switch you set the cam so it moves 1/2 turn after it hits the switch
[23:20:53] <eric__u> why is that?
[23:21:27] <dave_1> you really don't want the switch and the index on top of one another ....
[23:22:07] <eric__u> are you using mechanical switches?
[23:24:04] <dave_1> I have some nice AB oil tight limit switchs with roller
[23:24:30] <eric__u> can you buy the rubber covers for those things?
[23:24:49] <dave_1> actually X is automation direct and Y is AB
[23:25:06] <dave_1> they are already sealed around the piston
[23:25:23] <eric__u> ok, mine had rubber bellows, forget what brand
[23:26:03] <eric__u> I'm using proximity switches for home, don't really want to hear the table running into a switch over and over
[23:26:12] <dave_1> encoders are Koyo 2500 ppr ... automation direct
[23:26:55] <dave_1> I have a couple of prox switches but have not tried them
[23:27:14] <eric__u> I've tried mine, they seem really repeatable
[23:27:21] <eric__u> I don't have them mounted on the machine though
[23:27:27] <dave_1> I'm supposed to build a gage for tool length with them
[23:27:38] <eric__u> that would be a good use
[23:27:44] <dave_1> Ray H says ther are very repeatable
[23:28:01] <eric__u> the cool thing is that they only register out the front
[23:28:20] <eric__u> I'm going to thread them into my table
[23:28:44] <maddash> SWPadnos: why are the graphic lcds with resolutions >= VGA so much more expensive than if you bought a pre-built LCD panel?
[23:29:35] <eric__u> where are you getting your lcds from?
[23:29:55] <eric__u> digikey and the like are always outrageous for things like that
[23:30:19] <eric__u> anyone know the link for the "daisy" video on youtube?
[23:31:05] <maddash> mouser
[23:31:19] <eric__u> ok, they are also going to be unreasonably expensive
[23:31:30] <maddash> ...
[23:31:38] <eric__u> as will all the electronic distributors
[23:32:38] <eric__u> it's just the way their business model works
[23:32:53] <maddash> er, then who would be reasonably priced?
[23:33:13] <eric__u> they know if someone like me needs an lcd panel for work, we will pay their outrageous price
[23:33:24] <eric__u> and if someone needs a lot, they'll go somewhere else
[23:33:31] <eric__u> surplus is the only place
[23:33:54] <eric__u> there used to be a guy I bought lcd panels from surplus, don't remember the name
[23:34:35] <eric__u> ebay isn't an option?
[23:34:59] <maddash> doesn't ebay sell used merchandise?
[23:35:22] <eric__u> should be some nos, i just don't know what your application is
[23:36:16] <maddash> i have to shoot my neighbor's cat in pitch dark
[23:36:23] <eric__u> "new" or "reasonable price" choose one, unfortunately
[23:36:29] <eric__u> well, used should be fine then
[23:36:36] <eric__u> steal his lcd and use that
[23:37:41] <eric__u> who was the person that was using emc to fly santa around his front yard? That would be excellent anti-cat weapon platform
[23:38:30] <maddash> seriously, though I just bought this thing (http://www.embedded-store.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=313&CFID=568209&CFTOKEN=51094331) and it cost me a fortune
[23:39:06] <eric__u> that is a little expensive
[23:39:25] <eric__u> don't know that $80 is a fortune though
[23:39:37] <maddash> yeah, and it sucks up >10 i/O pins on my mcu
[23:39:53] <eric__u> not good
[23:40:09] <maddash> maybe I could disassemble it and hook it up to some lcd driver ic? there is such thing, right?
[23:40:13] <eric__u> there are serial displays available for a little less than that
[23:41:08] <eric__u> so you want a graphic lcd that would basically display 2 lines of text?
[23:42:00] <maddash> well, that's the other thing -- 122x32 isn't enough; i need something like >=128x64
[23:42:47] <eric__u> did you look at sparkfun?
[23:43:41] <maddash> .com, right?
[23:43:47] <eric__u> ya
[23:44:12] <eric__u> gotta go, bbl