#emc | Logs for 2007-12-29

[00:04:13] <gezr> sweet, its a bonafied dual boot box, emc with a gig of ram to piddle with
[00:05:22] <gezr> i guess i should rebuild my motor controler and hook it up and see how it does
[00:05:28] <gezr> maybe in a few hours ill do that
[00:27:56] <Ziegler> Has there been any discussion on changing the interpreter to "round" concave corners when tool comp is on?
[00:30:36] <Ziegler> And what exactly is "Dynamic Cutter Radius Compensation" as compared to "Cutter Radius Compensation"
[00:35:34] <jmkasunich> whats with the two cradeks?
[00:35:59] <lerman> If one is good, two must be better.
[00:36:15] <jmkasunich> I wouldn;t go that far
[00:36:43] <lerman> Does 'redd' mean anything to anyone here?
[00:36:58] <jmkasunich> foxx?
[00:37:19] <lerman> (RTLinux Ethernet Device Drivers)
[00:37:28] <jmkasunich> nope
[00:37:45] <jmkasunich> since RTLinux went commercial, we've focused more on RTAI
[00:38:50] <lerman> Damn, I never remember which it is that we use (and the wiki didn't help).
[00:39:03] <jmkasunich> rtapi actually has compatibility layers for both
[00:39:15] <jmkasunich> but the RTLinux is a very old version
[00:39:55] <lerman> Anyway, REDD lets you use ethernet from within RTLinux. IMHO, that would be a neat way to support external devices.
[00:40:07] <jmkasunich> RTNET does the same for RTAI
[00:40:47] <lerman> USB is too slow, but a dedicated ethernet card is about the same price as an LPT card and is a lot faster.
[00:40:55] <jmkasunich> yep
[00:41:26] <lerman> Cradek's arduino efforts made me think of this (again).
[00:41:50] <Ziegler> What exactly is "Dynamic Cutter Radius Compensation" as compared to "Cutter Radius Compensation"?
[00:42:03] <jmkasunich> no clue
[00:44:43] <Ziegler> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/gcode_main.html#sub:G40,-G41,-G42:
[00:45:40] <jmkasunich> so dynamic uses a g-code specified diameter, and "regular" uses a diameter from the tool table?
[00:46:02] <Ziegler> I dunno
[00:46:05] <jmkasunich> I wonder how image-to-gcode would do on this: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/ddg72coa.jpg
[00:46:20] <jmkasunich> Ziegler: thats how I read that page
[00:46:22] <Ziegler> probably not bad
[00:46:43] <jmkasunich> theres an awful lot of detail, and not that many pixels
[00:47:03] <Ziegler> convert it to gray scale to see what will be raised and what will be embossed
[00:47:25] <Ziegler> I might edit it with gimp a bit to darken certain areas
[00:47:48] <Ziegler> make the rope braid the highest point
[00:47:55] <Ziegler> and the lettering
[00:48:04] <Ziegler> gray out the white insides a bit
[00:56:07] <[Harlock]> do you guys know if a module such as nvidia_agp can affect RTAI?
[00:56:25] <jmkasunich> it wouldn't surprize me
[00:56:44] <jmkasunich> nvidia's proprietary driver and realtime don't usually get along
[00:56:52] <[Harlock]> even if I'm using vesa drivers in Xorg?
[00:57:13] <jmkasunich> you asked if the nvidia module could hurt, I said yes
[00:57:23] <jmkasunich> now you say you aren't using it
[00:57:25] <jmkasunich> so why ask?
[00:57:49] <[Harlock]> There's a distinction between Xorg driver and a kernel module isn't it?
[00:57:55] <jmkasunich> yes
[00:58:08] <jmkasunich> a driver might be a kernel module (might not, I'm not sure)
[00:58:18] <jmkasunich> but a kernel module can be many other things as well
[00:58:41] <[Harlock]> I though nvidia_agp originated from the kernel developpers, not Nvidia
[00:58:49] <jmkasunich> I have no clue
[00:59:24] <jmkasunich> basically, _any_ kernel module CAN affect RTAI
[00:59:38] <jmkasunich> most don't, but your guess is as good as mine as to which ones will
[01:00:07] <jmkasunich> if you have bad latency when its loaded, and good latency when its not, then you know
[01:00:17] <[Harlock]> yeah that's an easy test
[01:00:25] <[Harlock]> but my issue here is different
[01:00:36] <jmkasunich> I have no clue what that module even does
[01:00:52] <[Harlock]> I see Axis stalling for 1 second. I think the parallel port pins are freezing too at the same time
[01:01:05] <jmkasunich> think based on what?
[01:01:14] <[Harlock]> 4 channels scope
[01:01:16] <[Harlock]> but digital
[01:01:29] <jmkasunich> real scope, not halscope?
[01:01:33] <[Harlock]> yes
[01:01:46] <jmkasunich> thats bizarre
[01:01:55] <[Harlock]> I will output a siggen on one of the output pin of hal_parport
[01:01:58] <Gamma-X> omg
[01:02:04] <jmkasunich> its a lot easier to stall a user space program like axis than to stall realtime stuff
[01:02:09] <Gamma-X> overtime tonite and i got work at 6 am tomorow in queens!
[01:02:10] <jmkasunich> don't bother with siggen
[01:02:11] <Gamma-X> fudge!
[01:02:24] <jmkasunich> loadrt the parport driver and a not block
[01:02:39] <jmkasunich> connect the not's output to its input, and to one or more parport output pins
[01:02:51] <jmkasunich> put the not and the parport write function in a thread, and start it running
[01:02:51] <[Harlock]> jmkasunich: ok that sounds good
[01:02:59] <jmkasunich> it will toggle on every thread execution
[01:03:09] <[Harlock]> actually that was my original idea, but I wasn't sure on the implementation
[01:03:21] <[Harlock]> I'll do that
[01:03:38] <[Harlock]> and have my scope triggered on an external trigger
[01:03:52] <[Harlock]> I should be able to catch the glitches then
[01:04:18] <jmkasunich> you really want to trigger on absence of transitions - thats hard to do unless the scope has fancy trigger modes
[01:04:52] <[Harlock]> can't do that on mine... having it triggered on a non PC source would let me see the glitches tho
[01:05:08] <[Harlock]> such as the line 60Hz or something like that
[01:05:26] <jmkasunich> true
[01:05:37] <jmkasunich> but you gotta constantly be watching it
[01:05:44] <[Harlock]> of course of course
[01:05:49] <jmkasunich> and it would still be easy to miss a glitch
[01:06:01] <[Harlock]> the bug is frequent enough and long enough
[01:06:07] <jmkasunich> wow
[01:06:12] <[Harlock]> yah
[01:06:36] <[Harlock]> when I'll know what the problem looks like, I'll start ripping off modules
[01:06:56] <jmkasunich> do you see anything when you run the latency test?
[01:07:00] <[Harlock]> probably some ACPI or CPU fan control or whatever
[01:07:10] <jmkasunich> this isn't a laptop is it?
[01:07:13] <[Harlock]> nothing outstanding with latencies
[01:07:22] <[Harlock]> non ASUS mobo with AMD processor
[01:07:26] <[Harlock]> A7N8X I think
[01:07:31] <jmkasunich> strange
[01:07:57] <[Harlock]> lemme setup the HAL and I'll get a good confirmation
[01:12:12] <jmkasunich> must be raining in nebraska - timeguy.com is very slow
[01:25:41] <[Harlock]> ok I have a period time close to 200us
[01:25:55] <[Harlock]> this is without "machining"
[01:27:36] <[Harlock]> Axis stops on "joint 0 following error"
[01:30:59] <Unit41> why is irc blinking at me
[01:34:24] <fenn> [Harlock]: your period is too long wrt your max velocity and step size
[01:34:57] <fenn> either reduce max velocity or reduce the base period
[01:35:15] <fenn> 200us is really long, normal is like 20us
[01:37:26] <[Harlock]> thanks fenn, i've reduced the feed rate for now...
[01:38:16] <[Harlock]> if I have 200us, it means the thread is running at 100, isn't it?
[01:38:54] <fenn> uh, its 200us between consecutive executions of the thread
[01:39:48] <[Harlock]> yeah but I have a not block inverting it's own signal
[01:40:02] <[Harlock]> so one cycle the pin will be high, second cycle the pin is low
[01:40:14] <[Harlock]> so the thread was running at 100
[01:40:22] <[Harlock]> I've put 50us now
[01:42:24] <fenn> 200us = 5kHz, so your signal coming out should be 10kHz square wave
[01:42:42] <fenn> 40kHz for 50us
[01:42:54] <fenn> er, 40kHz square wve
[01:43:18] <fenn> oops
[01:43:23] <[Harlock]> I was measuring 200us period on the scope
[01:43:23] <fenn> did that backwards
[01:43:28] <[Harlock]> lol
[01:44:00] <fenn> yarr. is there a 10kHz wave on the scope?
[01:44:43] <fenn> or close to that
[01:45:52] <[Harlock]> now that I've changed the base period to 50us, yes the freq on the scope is 10kHz
[01:45:59] <fenn> ok
[01:46:11] <fenn> so now you just wait for it to stop working
[01:46:32] <fenn> you could set up a charge pump and trigger on that
[01:46:36] <[Harlock]> there's a feature on the scope to trigger when the period is higher than a level
[01:49:01] <maddash> what if I want to send more than one NML msg in tandem?
[01:50:57] <maddash> e.g., I write a module that handles an external jog device, so I'd have to read the inputs and send EMC-AXIS-JOG. But, I wouldn't know which axis mode (coord v. free) I'm in, so to be safe, I first send EMC-TASK-SET-STATE.
[01:51:34] <fenn> wouldnt that screw up any motion currently happening?
[01:52:38] <maddash> thus, I'd send TASK-SET-STATE, then send AXIS-JOG --- In this case, then NML is inefficient, because by sending two NML packets, I'd also have to wait twice the amount of time for a response.
[01:53:00] <fenn> sounds awful
[01:53:17] <Skullworks_PGA1> Skullworks_PGA1 is now known as Skullworks-PGAB
[01:53:21] <fenn> anyway, what happens if you just send the jog message?
[01:53:33] <maddash> fenn: it just bounces off emctaskmain.cc
[01:55:54] <maddash> excellent -- i see that the usr_intf/axis section has been cleaned up and organized
[02:01:06] <[Harlock]> it seems the hiccups I've seen were only graphic
[02:01:12] <[Harlock]> in Axis
[02:01:44] <[Harlock]> my scope triggered only once on one cycle of 57us instead of the expected 50us
[02:03:59] <fenn> [Harlock]: could you check to see that the scope and latency-test match up? i'm just curious
[02:06:35] <[Harlock]> I'm not sure I'm following you. My thread is setup to run at 50us, scope says it's about right, except in some occasions where i'
[02:06:45] <[Harlock]> I've seen the thread last 57.1 us
[02:08:22] <fenn> basically, i'm skeptical of the concept of using a computer's internal clock to test its own jitter, and since you have a scope all set up to test whether it's an accurate test, it would answer that question for me
[02:09:25] <jmkasunich> is there a g-code that pauses until the user does something?
[02:09:33] <jmkasunich> G4 pauses for a fixed period of time
[02:09:42] <maddash> m6t*?
[02:09:44] <fenn> jmk i think (MSG, does that
[02:10:37] <fenn> M00?
[02:10:43] <fenn> look at nc_files/skeleton.ngc
[02:12:23] <[Harlock]> I got 58.80 us
[02:12:32] <[Harlock]> so 8.80us over 50us
[02:12:42] <[Harlock]> 17.6%
[02:12:55] <[Harlock]> not what I would call fantastic
[02:13:10] <fenn> if you just look at the signal, what is the period? and what is the period reported in halcmd show thread
[02:13:41] <fenn> and presumably your scope can measure jitter in the signal
[02:14:22] <[Harlock]> presumably
[02:15:12] <[Harlock]> I can see the jitter
[02:15:26] <[Harlock]> I can tell you with the cursors
[02:15:58] <[Harlock]> I set persistence to infinite
[02:17:36] <[Harlock]> what are the two values (Time, Max-Time) in halcmd show thread?
[02:17:55] <fenn> i think Time is the amount of cpu time used by the thread
[02:18:16] <fenn> the difference between when it started and stopped
[02:18:22] <fenn> i dont know what max-time is
[02:18:28] <[Harlock]> ok so these are the actual run time of the ask
[02:18:32] <[Harlock]> task
[02:18:39] <jmkasunich> time is the most recent time, max is the largest value that time has had
[02:18:42] <[Harlock]> and max-time is the worst since the thead started
[02:18:50] <[Harlock]> good
[02:18:58] <jmkasunich> max is writable, so you can reset it to zero with a setp if you want
[02:20:47] <fenn> what do you setp? which param?
[02:21:25] <[Harlock]> ok so here are the results: halcmd show thread tells us that base-thread programmed to run at 49448us took at worst 38647us to execute. Meaning no overruns
[02:22:27] <[Harlock]> now the scope tells us the the smallest time the task took to run was 50us, largest was 60.80us
[02:22:36] <fenn> i can set time for each funct, but not the thread.
[02:23:01] <jmkasunich> thread times aren't params, but they are visible if you do show thread
[02:23:48] <jmkasunich> it would be nice of thread times are params, but params like pins need to "belong" to something
[02:23:59] <jmkasunich> and threads don't belong to any one component
[02:24:14] <jmkasunich> s/of/if/
[02:24:17] <[Harlock]> I would have handled them like objects
[02:24:53] <jmkasunich> there are complications when doing things in kernel space (threads must be created in kernel space)
[02:24:59] <[Harlock]> ah I see
[02:25:30] <[Harlock]> so fenn, anything else you want me to look into?
[02:25:54] <fenn> does the jitter in latency-test match up with what you see on the scope
[02:26:10] <fenn> the average value, not ovl-max
[02:27:04] <[Harlock]> I would guess the scope average is 54us
[02:27:47] <[Harlock]> there's no average in the latency-test, is there?
[02:28:01] <fenn> uh, no i guess there's not
[02:28:02] <[Harlock]> I would be more concerned about overall max
[02:28:07] <jmkasunich> no, you have to do an eyeball average
[02:28:13] <fenn> the last-interval column
[02:29:02] <fenn> max-jitter should match up too
[02:29:10] <[Harlock]> base thread (25.0us) is hovering at 24400us
[02:29:45] <[Harlock]> max jitter is 24532us now
[02:30:00] <jmkasunich> the period gets set to the nearest integer multiple of some internal clock, so your nominal 25uS might actually be different
[02:30:15] <jmkasunich> I think show threads will show the actual programmed period
[02:31:10] <[Harlock]> halcmd says 24305us
[02:31:37] <jmkasunich> thats a bit closer to 24400
[02:32:12] <[Harlock]> so my jitter is twice the thread period??
[02:32:33] <jmkasunich> not sure I understand the question
[02:32:50] <[Harlock]> my statement is wrong
[02:32:57] <jmkasunich> you said "max jitter is 24532uS now"
[02:33:04] <[Harlock]> yes
[02:33:16] <jmkasunich> I think you meant ns, but was that measured by the scope, or indicated by a latency test or something?
[02:33:29] <[Harlock]> 24532ns
[02:33:36] <[Harlock]> or 24.5 us
[02:33:41] <jmkasunich> was that measured by the scope, or indicated by a latency test or something?
[02:33:48] <[Harlock]> latency-test
[02:34:08] <fenn> i'd expect it to say something like 132ns
[02:34:14] <[Harlock]> jitter of 24us for a thread supposed to run at 25us, that's weird
[02:34:20] <jmkasunich> fenn: what?
[02:34:45] <jmkasunich> max latency of 132nS would be incredibly good
[02:34:56] <[Harlock]> I though jitter was the error between the actual period and the commanded period
[02:35:13] <fenn> if the jitter is actually 24us in a signal of 25us, the waveform would be so distorted you couldn't make out where it was on an infinite persistence scope capture
[02:35:22] <jmkasunich> [Harlock]: jitter is not a precise term
[02:35:38] <[Harlock]> craptastic
[02:35:50] <jmkasunich> latency is what the latency test measure, not jitter
[02:36:02] <fenn> so why does it say jitter?
[02:36:10] <jmkasunich> what "it"?
[02:36:16] <fenn> the latency test program
[02:36:17] <jmkasunich> I hate inprecise words
[02:36:17] <[Harlock]> yeah there's no latency column in the latency-test
[02:36:22] <[Harlock]> me too
[02:37:14] <jmkasunich> yes there is:
[02:37:19] <jmkasunich> "RTH| lat min| ovl min| lat avg| lat max| ovl max| overruns"
[02:37:26] <jmkasunich> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting
[02:37:29] <[Harlock]> ooh not RTAI test...
[02:37:39] <fenn> there are two latency test scripts, one in /usr/realtime.. and one in scripts/latency-test
[02:37:40] <[Harlock]> we're talking about EMC2 latency-test
[02:37:53] <jmkasunich> oh, well I don't know anything about that one
[02:38:02] <jmkasunich> its a wrapper on the real one as far as I know
[02:38:07] <fenn> i dont think it is
[02:38:12] <jmkasunich> and it might be using that annoying inprecise language
[02:38:21] <[Harlock]> the real one uses HAL?
[02:38:27] <[Harlock]> the latency-test from EMC2 does
[02:38:31] <jmkasunich> the real one uses RTAI
[02:38:39] <jmkasunich> I don't know what the EMC one does, never used it
[02:38:56] <fenn> scripts/latency-test loads two threads and timedelta
[02:39:09] <jmkasunich> then it must be using HAL
[02:40:02] <[Harlock]> someday I'll have to figure out why Axis freezes
[02:40:14] <[Harlock]> sounds like a pile of module to take out one by one
[02:40:22] <fenn> timedelta has this line: jitter = max(max_ - period, period - min_);
[02:40:24] <jmkasunich> axis is just a user space program
[02:40:40] <[Harlock]> I can understand that
[02:40:41] <jmkasunich> I doubt modules have anything to do with it freezing
[02:41:06] <[Harlock]> What do you think is the cause then, beside being a poor user space program?
[02:41:23] <jmkasunich> I don't think its a poor program - it works fine
[02:41:40] <jmkasunich> something else, higher priority, is prempting it
[02:41:51] <fenn> try 'top'?
[02:41:51] <jmkasunich> something that doesn't happen on most systems, because most people don't have this issue
[02:42:00] <[Harlock]> you mean in between RTAI and Axis?
[02:42:26] <jmkasunich> you mean between in priority? yes
[02:42:39] <fenn> he means something is preventing Axis from running
[02:42:48] <[Harlock]> for a second
[02:42:55] <jmkasunich> overall priorities in a running system are:
[02:42:58] <jmkasunich> 1) realtime threads
[02:43:10] <jmkasunich> 2) linux kernel drivers and such (interrupts)
[02:43:21] <jmkasunich> 3) linux kernel system calls and such
[02:43:36] <jmkasunich> 4) user space programs (further divided based on "nice" values
[02:43:53] <jmkasunich> the parport and not block are in group 1
[02:43:59] <jmkasunich> axis is in group 4
[02:44:40] <jmkasunich> along with your web browser, IRC client, and just about everything else
[02:44:42] <fenn> is there a 'ktop' or something that measures kernel processor usage?
[02:44:51] <[Harlock]> Axis has priority 16, which is higher than Xorg (pri 15)
[02:44:59] <[Harlock]> fenn yes I use Ksysguard
[02:45:15] <[Harlock]> right now I use top,but kSysguard is easier
[02:45:21] <[Harlock]> sucks resources too :)
[02:45:25] <fenn> eh, actually that's "niceness level" which goes the other way, -20 is max priority
[02:45:35] <[Harlock]> hmm
[02:45:46] <[Harlock]> nice and pri are different
[02:46:10] <gezr> nice is how "nice" something is to another application
[02:46:25] <gezr> lower niceness = mean
[02:46:38] <[Harlock]> let's call it "aggressive"
[02:46:48] <fenn> oh top shows both PR and NI
[02:47:22] <gezr> harlock I still dont understand what problem your having, are things still taking that moment of pause?
[02:48:06] <[Harlock]> we found out that RTAI/HAL/EMC2 don't seem to be affected
[02:48:17] <[Harlock]> just the display is freezing for a second
[02:48:26] <[Harlock]> it might be Xorg as far as I know
[02:48:46] <jmkasunich> sometimes that kind of thing is caused by things like journeled filesystem flushing things to disk
[02:48:58] <jmkasunich> or a disk drive doing retries on a bad secotor
[02:49:00] <jmkasunich> sector
[02:49:07] <[Harlock]> I have ext3 indeed
[02:49:18] <[Harlock]> bad sectors would show up in dmesg
[02:49:29] <jmkasunich> I'm just thinking out loud
[02:49:40] <[Harlock]> that's good, I do that all the time.
[02:49:45] <jmkasunich> pretty much everybody has ext3 these days, and most of us don't see those delays
[02:49:51] <[Harlock]> As long as there's no fight...
[02:49:51] <gezr> how many process are you running harlock?
[02:50:00] <jmkasunich> I think SWPadnos saw delays that he tracked to disk journeling
[02:50:21] <[Harlock]> I got a primitive SATA driver
[02:50:26] <[Harlock]> maybe it's not helping
[02:50:37] <gezr> primitive sata?
[02:50:44] <[Harlock]> Silicon Image 3112 I think
[02:50:51] <[Harlock]> worst piece of !#$#%@%R
[02:51:09] <[Harlock]> that's when SATA was the new thing around
[02:51:27] <[Harlock]> it gave me problems with some kernels
[02:51:28] <gezr> why do you need a seperate kernel module for your drives?
[02:51:44] <fenn> gezr: that's the way things are done these days
[02:52:03] <[Harlock]> gezr: I have 110 tasks total
[02:52:05] <fenn> so you can download updates without havin to recompile a kernel
[02:52:28] <[Harlock]> fenn: not only that, you can unload them from memory and reconfigure them
[02:52:39] <gezr> kernel compiling was all the fun, still is
[02:52:42] <gezr> but oh well
[02:53:15] <[Harlock]> gezr: you still compile, the kernel is just as big as it was, but now we get to compile tons of unused modules too
[02:53:37] <gezr> I dont compile anything unessary
[02:53:51] <[Harlock]> that's what I liked to do in the past
[02:54:10] <[Harlock]> but my new approach is to stick as close as possible to the distro
[02:54:17] <[Harlock]> .deb packages, etc
[02:54:40] <[Harlock]> usually when I have a single piece of source code, I debianize it
[02:54:47] <[Harlock]> then compile and install
[02:54:53] <[Harlock]> makes it easier to remove and clean
[02:55:00] <fenn> do you use checkinstall or something else?
[02:55:14] <[Harlock]> fenn: I'm not sure what you mean
[02:55:32] <fenn> checkinstall is a script that sets up a fake root and does make install
[02:55:39] <fenn> then it turns the fake root into a .deb
[02:56:04] <[Harlock]> no I use the "official" way... I think. With dh_make
[02:56:10] <[Harlock]> or something like that
[02:56:42] <[Harlock]> I do dh_make first, answer the questions
[02:56:56] <[Harlock]> then fakeroot debian/rules binary
[02:57:42] <gezr> oh the joys of trying to play debian's rules
[02:57:58] <[Harlock]> it's a real pain sometimes
[02:58:41] <[Harlock]> I wish there was less dependencies... everything is depending on soo many packages
[02:58:55] <[Harlock]> there should be a dependency tree limitation
[02:59:09] <[Harlock]> some packages should be compiled static
[02:59:26] <[Harlock]> ok I gotta go now, I feel I'm only whining
[02:59:32] <[Harlock]> see you guys
[02:59:34] <fenn> ciao
[03:00:57] <gezr> hmm
[03:01:41] <Fezzler> Need help getting two DTE to talk
[03:02:00] <jmkasunich> serial link stuff?
[03:02:26] <jmkasunich> I think you are in the wrong channel
[03:02:34] <Fezzler> Yes, I'm trying to get data flowing between a old computer and my WinCE device.
[03:02:47] <Fezzler> I'm not sure best channel. Sorry
[03:02:48] <jmkasunich> oh, you are definitely in the wrong channel
[03:03:08] <jmkasunich> this channel supports EMC2, a Linux based machine tool controller
[03:03:16] <jmkasunich> no windows
[03:03:22] <Fezzler> my apologies
[03:03:41] <jmkasunich> I suggest a web search rather than IRC
[03:03:44] <Fezzler> I saw machine and controller and I thought RS232 question might have a fair shot
[03:03:56] <Fezzler> txs
[03:29:43] <gezr> well, I think im going to hook up my motor drives
[03:30:03] <gezr> what do you guys think?
[03:31:21] <fenn> sounds like a bad idea
[03:39:59] <gezr> whats the xwindows config tool on ubuntu called?
[03:47:14] <gezr> got it, restarting x is done ?
[03:51:43] <gezr> sweet, got it looking right finally
[03:52:04] <gezr> time to power up the drives
[03:53:37] <scutsxg> i have a idea is emc2 suitbale to install in a usb flash disk?
[03:54:02] <gezr> all flash disks are slow
[03:54:05] <scutsxg> maybe interesting ,and more convience
[03:54:51] <scutsxg> year,i do think so,i have the experience to port emc1 in COMPACT FLASH CARD,and things go well
[03:57:44] <gezr> hahahahahahah, it works
[03:57:55] <scutsxg> of course,hehe
[03:58:38] <scutsxg> Óж®ÖÐÎĵÄô,ÕâÀï?
[03:58:56] <gezr> I think I have my drives set up wrong hehehe
[04:13:49] <gezr> na, they are okay, just cant do much with the little bittie motors I have connected, they act like speekers
[04:17:45] <Unit41> find comm first
[04:17:56] <Unit41> lowest resistance
[04:18:39] <gezr> they seem to be doing okay with the basic axis stepper set up, but max out at 5% of feed overide, running the axis.ngc file
[04:19:34] <Unit41> ohm
[04:19:41] <Unit41> now just go ohm
[04:19:57] <gezr> what?
[04:20:04] <Unit41> ohm
[04:20:09] <Unit41> like ohms
[04:20:09] <gezr> what about it?
[04:20:41] <gezr> i think im feeding back on my Z axis
[04:20:58] <Unit41> i just like saying ohm
[04:21:28] <Unit41> hahahaha
[04:22:01] <Unit41> one touch maxtor hard drives are annoying
[04:22:07] <Unit41> they wont shut off
[04:22:32] <Unit41> the hard drives are called "one touch" 500 gb
[04:22:44] <Unit41> maxtor
[04:22:59] <Unit41> cheap now I know why
[04:23:06] <gezr> i need some putty
[04:23:22] <Unit41> epoxy putty ?
[04:24:45] <gezr> playdoh will work, oh well
[04:24:51] <gezr> im going to have to get some real drives I guess
[04:25:18] <Unit41> something about this tig welder looks unsafe :) http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19323&d=1151469872
[04:25:19] <gezr> ive been using unc8054b chips, they just arnt cut out for this
[04:26:03] <gezr> you guys pretty much all running geckos?
[04:26:30] <Unit41> is cement an insulator or a conductor or wich of the best ?
[04:35:53] <gezr> I dont understand your question
[05:04:27] <eric_U> don't think you can go wrong with geckos, unless you want to drive a really big motor
[05:13:18] <gezr> its all going to be a matter of what im going to want to do I guess, i have a huge registration bill for school due, and well, I dont know how much I can spend on emc stuff right now
[05:13:34] <gezr> I cant really develop without some things working I dont figure
[05:14:19] <fenn> just make a teeny tiny mill
[05:14:22] <gezr> I think that what I have is probably going to be fine
[05:14:35] <gezr> I like the idea of a teeny tiny mill :)
[05:15:19] <gezr> I have a bunch of steppers, and I dont know why the drive chips I have wont work
[05:15:35] <gezr> I could just mess with the settings till I get something I can use and then run with it
[05:15:46] <fenn> i wanted to make a palm-top hexapod, but never got around to making miniature timing belts
[05:16:20] <fenn> the pager motors arent strong enough to drive a leadscrew directly
[05:16:20] <gezr> you need what 6 motors for a hexapod?
[05:16:46] <fenn> yes
[05:17:02] <gezr> I liked the 3 motor arangement for say a ploter, that may be the shiz
[05:17:11] <fenn> the tripod thing?
[05:17:12] <gezr> one of the videos I watched has that
[05:17:14] <gezr> yeah
[05:17:21] <gezr> one of the guys in here made it
[05:17:38] <gezr> that would be so easy for me to make
[05:17:39] <fenn> yeah, you can also do a "capstan" drive
[05:17:50] <fenn> like an inkjet printer
[05:17:55] <gezr> na
[05:18:10] <gezr> I want to have at least 2 linear axis to work with
[05:18:28] <fenn> that's what i mean
[05:18:30] <gezr> the tripod method is all funky kinematics
[05:18:45] <gezr> well, the inkjet using axis 2 as a rotatary
[05:18:51] <gezr> doesnt it?
[05:18:55] <fenn> no
[05:19:16] <fenn> well anyway, there's lots of options
[05:19:23] <gezr> yeah, thats for sure
[05:24:53] <tomp2> for mu-mill , http://www.hsi-inc.com/canstack_template.php?series=36000 these steppers have lead screw built in
[07:14:34] <scutsxg> hi,i have ibm t23 computer as my platform to run emc2.2.1,i found it is very slow
[07:14:55] <scutsxg> cpu cellon 1.1G HZ,and 512M ram
[07:15:10] <scutsxg> is it enough?
[07:15:19] <fenn> yes
[07:15:55] <scutsxg> oh,but i alway found unexpected realtime delay,is there sth wrong?
[07:16:02] <fenn> yes
[07:16:28] <fenn> you may want to read this page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting
[07:16:51] <scutsxg> maybe sth in INI file about period about task
[07:16:53] <scutsxg> ok thanks
[07:17:24] <fenn> and this http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?FixingDapperSMIIssues
[07:18:04] <fenn> and this http://rtai.dk/cgi-bin/gratiswiki.pl?Latency_Killer
[07:19:30] <scutsxg> that is enough,i will read it carefully
[07:19:47] <scutsxg> thanks
[07:20:13] <fenn> check dmesg, see if there are any warnings or error messages that might help narrow down the cause
[07:20:34] <fenn> oh it's a laptop
[07:20:54] <fenn> that's usually difficult or impossible
[07:21:03] <scutsxg> oh,really,why
[07:21:29] <fenn> they have a lot of power management stuff in the hardware that bothers the cpu
[07:21:38] <fenn> bad for realtime
[07:21:43] <scutsxg> oh,
[07:22:27] <scutsxg> i will just have a try,but some guy around me using t41 laptop,things go well
[07:27:12] <orpheus> anyone around familar with aptos / apt360?
[07:29:25] <fenn> try #cam, but i doubt anyone is awake
[07:29:33] <orpheus> already did
[07:29:43] <orpheus> and, no, not really
[07:30:05] <fenn> are you asking about getting it running or using it?
[07:30:18] <orpheus> using it.
[07:30:27] <orpheus> I'm.. a little confused
[07:30:59] <orpheus> it seems like there ought to be a handy macro for pocketing things without linear sides
[07:31:33] <orpheus> out of curiosity, what do you use to generate nc code?
[07:32:03] <fenn> nothing - i'm working on a script to turn an outline into a spiral pocket
[07:32:25] <orpheus> makes sense
[07:32:41] <fenn> supposedly ace converter turns dxf into g-code, but i havent tried it
[07:33:00] <fenn> and there's gcam but it is rather limited and you have to start from scratch
[07:33:16] <orpheus> yeah, it seems to not like debian systems too much
[07:33:25] <orpheus> and crashed a time or two
[07:33:35] <fenn> yeah, stupid developer if you ask me
[07:33:54] <orpheus> it seems like there isn't that much to to 3d work
[07:34:39] <orpheus> well, he might be stupid, but he started a project and got something working, so i give him that much credit
[07:34:54] <orpheus> I've seen a few projects based on opencascade
[07:35:22] <fenn> stupid is the wrong word.. close-minded i guess
[07:35:39] <orpheus> yeah
[07:36:05] <orpheus> are there at least decent (3D) cad programs out there?
[07:36:13] <fenn> opencascade is so huge and unmanageable it's hard to even get started on it
[07:36:33] <fenn> not really, most 3d stuff in linux is graphics oriented
[07:36:50] <fenn> brlcad is solid under the hood, but aging and has a bad interface
[07:37:03] <orpheus> at the same time, i could actually make things in blender well enough
[07:37:15] <fenn> yes but it is very hard to do things precisely in blender
[07:37:33] <fenn> it is quite powerful for artistic use though
[07:37:36] <orpheus> very true, but still possible
[07:37:50] <orpheus> err, precise things are possible
[07:37:54] <orpheus> just not easy
[07:38:05] <fenn> k3d is interesting and undergoing active development, but it is a graphics program in the end
[07:39:17] <fenn> as far as free-libre software, there's nothing i can point to and say 'this is it'
[07:39:23] <orpheus> so, if you're just dealing with triangles, .stl seems to be the way to go
[07:39:29] <fenn> yes
[07:39:58] <orpheus> but is there a common format for, erm, maybe that's call NURBS-based models?
[07:40:10] <fenn> IGES
[07:41:12] <orpheus> so instead of approximating a sphere using triangles, that format allows you to say "there's a sphere, r=suchnsuch, centered at XYZ" ?
[07:41:28] <fenn> there is a more complex extension of IGES in ISO 10303 AP203 and AP214
[07:41:37] <scutsxg> nurbs ,that is interesting....
[07:42:08] <scutsxg> the complex math formula prevent programmer to use it,
[07:42:08] <orpheus> wow
[07:42:26] <fenn> i'd settle for a format with triangles, cylinders, spheres, cones
[07:42:40] <orpheus> well, yeah, but it is a cleaner solution
[07:42:50] <fenn> eh, i guess
[07:42:59] <orpheus> i mean, there's no approxamating involved
[07:43:03] <scutsxg> and it seems few nurbs source lib can be found to aid our job
[07:43:47] <orpheus> it's good to know that there's a standard though; is it somewhat followed in the real world?
[07:43:57] <fenn> yes, actually
[07:44:12] <fenn> part of the reason iso-10303 is so complex is that everyone got to have their say
[07:44:15] <orpheus> i've never laid hands on, say, mastercam, so I don't know what formats are "normal"
[07:44:21] <orpheus> heh
[07:45:47] <orpheus> any idea if there's anything free/open that can speak IGES?
[07:45:54] <fenn> hmmm
[07:46:25] <fenn> there is a something called gCAD3D that can open IGES files, but i dont really understand what the author is trying to do or whether it's free or not
[07:46:34] <orpheus> i mean, i can throw my brain at making iges->nc, but if I can't even edit an IGES file...
[07:47:10] <orpheus> i see what you mean about not usderstanding
[07:47:24] <orpheus> and I've even had a few years of german
[07:47:41] <fenn> it is "freeware" that runs on linux
[07:47:53] <orpheus> hehe, kostenlos
[07:47:59] <orpheus> freeware
[07:48:17] <fenn> but wtf is the point of that
[07:48:21] <orpheus> i love the ToDo
[07:48:26] <fenn> its like teasing a dog
[07:48:34] <orpheus> AP001: Dokumentation -> English
[07:49:08] <orpheus> well
[07:49:10] <orpheus> it's gtk
[07:49:18] <orpheus> and it's actually got source
[07:49:25] <orpheus> kostenlos doesn't translate well
[07:50:23] <orpheus> it looks like he's cool with anything non-commercial
[07:51:09] <orpheus> anyways
[07:51:30] <orpheus> thanks fenn, you've given my brain a new place to start
[07:51:45] <orpheus> perhaps a place to start tommorow
[07:53:43] <fenn> definitely look at brlcad
[07:56:21] <orpheus> it can do iges, which is good
[07:56:25] <orpheus> i'm there now
[08:02:42] <fenn> orpheus: https://www.email-lists.org/pipermail/freearchitecture/2006-May/000079.html
[08:03:13] <fenn> this from the current lead developer of brlcad
[08:15:51] <ds2> anyone know what kind of tool would one use to adjust a "castlated nut" that doesn't have wrench flats?
[08:16:08] <ds2> (this is apparently the 'lash adjustments for a ball screw)
[08:16:43] <fenn> a pin wrench?
[08:17:05] <ds2> what's that?
[08:17:15] <fenn> http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&q=pin+wrench&btnG=Search+Images
[08:17:18] <ds2> is that the same as a face spanner?
[08:17:48] <fenn> yes
[08:17:52] <ds2> ah yes
[08:18:16] <ds2> let me see how the phone camera did with this
[08:23:46] <ds2> assuming I use a face spanner to try to turn it, how do I prevent the screw itself from rotating? Poor pictures of the assembly:
[08:23:52] <ds2> http://imagebin.ca/view/tbRfE64x.html
[08:23:56] <ds2> http://imagebin.ca/view/51GSu-G.html
[08:24:52] <fenn> does it matter if the screw rotates?
[08:25:09] <ds2> well, from what i can tell, that nut adjusts the preload on the bearing
[08:25:25] <ds2> if the screw rotates, I can't tighten the nut to reduce/eliminate the lash
[08:25:50] <ds2> this whole thing started with finding lash on the X axis on the order of 0.050"
[08:26:10] <fenn> you can wrap some aluminum shims around the bearing and use vise grips
[08:26:14] <ds2> and what I found was the entire screw shifting on the mount
[08:26:22] <fenn> er.. s/bearing/screw shaft/
[08:26:38] <ds2> that sounds doable
[08:26:48] <fenn> what keeps the nut from loosening itself?
[08:27:11] <ds2> apparently there is a star washer underneath it that has one of its points bent up
[08:27:26] <fenn> ah i see
[08:27:42] <ds2> i wish the picture is better but phone cams don't have a good macro mode
[08:27:47] <fenn> and that probably keys into the shaft somehow
[08:28:09] <ds2> eh? I didn't think of that
[08:28:19] <fenn> otherwise the star washer would spin
[08:28:34] <fenn> hey does that shaft have a flat on it?
[08:28:47] <ds2> not anywhere that is visible
[08:29:00] <fenn> ok, it sorta looked like it from the picture
[08:29:17] <ds2> there is normally a timing belt pulley held on with 2 90deg spaced set screws on it
[08:29:31] <fenn> and they dont dig into the shaft?
[08:29:49] <ds2> there is 2 predrilled dimples for the set screws
[08:29:54] <ds2> s/is/are/
[08:30:07] <fenn> well, you can use that pulley to hold it steady i guess
[08:30:25] <fenn> you arent going to be putting too much tightening force on the adjustment nut
[08:30:39] <ds2> Hmmm
[08:30:58] <ds2> more worried about breaking that pulley
[08:32:34] <ds2> would it be a bad idea if I take it to someone with a conventional lathe and stick it in a collet with the lathe in low gear?
[08:32:50] <fenn> uh. why would you do that?
[08:33:33] <fenn> generally if something requires a lot of force, you're doing it wrong
[08:33:57] <Gamma-X> u guys realize what time it is right? lol
[08:34:09] <fenn> go back to work, sucka
[08:34:17] <ds2> cuz I figure a collet is a more event grip then shims + vise grip
[08:34:18] <Gamma-X> lol
[08:34:39] <Gamma-X> i got work in queens at 6 am until 6 pm
[08:34:46] <Gamma-X> im makin 400 dollars in one day...
[08:34:55] <ds2> what are you doing?
[08:35:18] <Gamma-X> i work at a power plant
[08:35:22] <Gamma-X> insulation
[08:35:46] <Gamma-X> fenn i think im buyin a rotary phase converter, i donty want to deal with messin the machine up at all ....
[08:35:48] <ds2> as in thermal or electrical?
[08:35:59] <fenn> asbestos
[08:36:02] <Gamma-X> im buyin a cheap one....
[08:36:06] <Gamma-X> asbestos biotch!
[08:36:26] <fenn> i didnt know you could buy such a thing
[08:36:58] <Gamma-X> fenn are u serious?
[08:37:07] <fenn> it's just two motors
[08:37:33] <fenn> Gamma-X: how about buying a vfd instead
[08:37:42] <fenn> and just pretending it's a rotary converter
[08:38:35] <Gamma-X> cause i dont wanna mess with the wiring in the machine.....
[08:39:19] <Gamma-X> fenn the whole ting is that i cant use the vfd to control the reverse and all that cause other pumps run off the 3 phase power.
[08:39:39] <fenn> so? just use the existing contactors and stuff
[08:39:52] <Gamma-X> i thought u said it would mess the vfd up?
[08:40:02] <fenn> then at least you'll have a vfd later on when you decide to do it right
[08:40:37] <Gamma-X> ?
[08:40:41] <fenn> i never said that.. but i'm no vfd expert either
[08:40:53] <Gamma-X> lol true
[08:40:57] <Gamma-X> shoulndt mess it up...
[08:41:12] <Gamma-X> should i get the 300 dolalr one or 350?
[08:41:15] <Gamma-X> 300 has more power?
[08:41:56] <fenn> sounds like you've spent more time worrying about it than required to earn 50 bucks
[08:42:48] <fenn> i would buy the pretty one. then at least i wouldnt hate it
[08:42:54] <Gamma-X> lol ok
[08:43:37] <Gamma-X> it uses up 10 amps the shitty one uses 11 amps
[08:44:32] <fenn> i wouldnt worry about 1 amp
[08:45:59] <Gamma-X> just wanna me sure my machine will run lol
[08:46:01] <Gamma-X> im a bitch lol
[08:56:14] <maddash> queens, NY?
[09:04:51] <fenn> looks like the iges standard is on my reading list
[09:26:42] <gezr> de2 you figure out your spaner wrench issue?
[09:27:18] <gezr> if you didnt find a way to hold it the answer is simple
[09:27:39] <gezr> de2 : you still there even?
[09:27:50] <gezr> oh shoot, its ds2
[09:27:52] <gezr> my bad
[09:29:50] <gezr> all he needs to do is take a piece of angle iron or sheet steel, whatever he has acces too, find a drill bit that matches up with the holes x2, or about the same size with 2 similiar drills, grind out the relief area, then drill 2 hols in the steel, lay it flat on the part he wants to hold, then stick the drill bits in upside down and ito the holes, bingo, instant spaner wrench
[09:30:17] <gezr> that will keep the big piece from spinning
[09:31:28] <gezr> then for the smaller nut if he has a drill press, same principle but he will need to make it a pure spanner wrench, drill 1/4" or smaller hols along a curved path cept for the very end, leave it like a fish hook
[09:31:49] <gezr> then grind out whats left to form the wrench
[09:32:09] <gezr> vise grips are for the loss
[09:32:46] <gezr> gamma-x reguardless of what vfd you go with or phase converter, get an electrician to look at it
[09:33:54] <fenn> gezr: i think the nut is threaded onto the ballscrew shaft
[09:35:04] <gezr> fenn : you may be right, its hard to see in the photos hu?
[09:35:36] <gezr> unless thats some sort of bearing block, I really cant tell
[09:36:20] <gezr> no I see, in the first image, its the stuff on the right, thats the nut that sets the bearing preload on the bearing block
[09:36:30] <gezr> not ont he right, on the left my bad
[09:36:54] <gezr> just a bit above the bare foot
[09:38:16] <gezr> fenn : you see what im talking about?
[09:41:47] <gezr> yeah, Ive seen that sort of set up lots
[09:42:10] <gezr> ds2 you still around, ive got questions for you about your .050 play your seeing
[09:42:58] <fenn> no it's the stuff on the left
[09:43:06] <fenn> the lathe table is underneath the stuff on the left
[09:43:44] <gezr> yeah, I didnt mean to say right, im tired
[09:43:58] <gezr> but thats probably not where his loosness is, it could be in the gib
[09:44:23] <fenn> could be lotsa places
[09:44:27] <gezr> if he has .050 in that bearing pack, then the pack is shot
[09:44:35] <fenn> yeah
[09:45:36] <gezr> that sort of set up is funky too, the ball screw has a timming pulley, that goes down to the servo, and the servo goes back under the bed of the machine
[09:46:37] <gezr> he, anything a bit lose could really add up in terms of a play with that set up too
[09:47:20] <gezr> even the servo motor, if its going bad, can make a growling sound that makes it seem like the screw is shot when its moving
[09:48:08] <gezr> im going to go to bed, good night ya'll
[10:10:38] <fenn> yay only 800 pages for IGES
[10:26:38] <fenn> i like this IGES standard - it's written in plain english and gets the job done
[10:44:24] <alex_joni> morning fenn
[10:46:07] <fenn> g'day
[10:54:31] <alex_joni> what's up?
[10:54:52] <alex_joni> (btw.. nice thread you posted earlier)
[10:56:50] <fenn> they sure dont tell you that stuff on the ISO website :)
[10:57:49] <alex_joni> heh :)
[11:02:07] <alex_joni> fenn: before or after you pay the fee to download the stuff?
[11:02:49] <fenn> well, i never read the actual standard documents, only the drafts
[11:02:57] <fenn> but sean says they are essentially the same
[11:03:18] <maddash> all of a sudden, my 2.2.2 stops working! 'scripts/emc configs/stepper/stepper_inch.ini' gives:
[11:03:25] <maddash> insmod: error inserting '/home/bryant/emc2-2.2/rtlib/rtapi.ko': -1 Invalid module format
[11:03:41] <maddash> what's causing this?
[11:03:46] <alex_joni> different kernel
[11:03:48] <fenn> gcc version mismatch?
[11:04:19] <maddash> alex_joni: but that can't be, b/c I've not touched the kernel at all
[11:04:22] <alex_joni> you need the same compiler for the kernel and for modules
[11:04:35] <maddash> oh geez, I 'aptitude upgrade'-ed
[11:04:37] <alex_joni> madtry uname -a
[11:04:47] <alex_joni> maddash: try uname -a
[11:05:38] <maddash> the version's, and some other misc infos
[11:05:48] <alex_joni> that's not a RT kernel
[11:06:11] <alex_joni> perhaps you booted with the wrong one from grub?
[11:06:21] <maddash> here we go:
[11:06:21] <maddash> Linux athome #2 SMP Wed Jul 25 20:56:32 EDT 2007 i686 GNU/Linux
[11:06:49] <alex_joni> did you build that kernel?
[11:07:18] <maddash> i've only two kernels, and 2.6.18 (the non-RT) -- I'm sure of it, because the last time I've even touched the kernel on this box was over 6 months ago, and 2.2.2 ran fine last night
[11:07:36] <maddash> yes, I built it following the Debian etch RTAI guide
[11:07:40] <maddash> in the wiki
[11:08:03] <alex_joni> check dmesg for more errors
[11:08:05] <maddash> I thnk the problems gcc
[11:08:11] <maddash> problem's*
[11:08:40] <alex_joni> did you recompile emc2?
[11:08:44] <fenn> usr/realtime/... somwhere in there is a file that says GCC = and tells the version used to compile the kernel
[11:08:54] <alex_joni> rtai-config I think
[11:09:15] <alex_joni> and you can get the gcc version from /proc
[11:09:43] <maddash> yep, last night, I upgraded (among other things) gcc 4.1.2-15 -> 4.1.2-18
[11:10:01] <alex_joni> maddash: well.. might be the culprit
[11:10:13] <maddash> geez, that's just stupid
[11:10:24] <alex_joni> why is that?
[11:10:31] <maddash> now I have to rebuild my kernel and RTAI??
[11:10:46] <alex_joni> how about putting the old compiler back in place?
[11:10:57] <maddash> ...how?
[11:11:09] <fenn> apt-get install gcc=4.1.2-15
[11:11:11] <alex_joni> but before doing any of this, I would still follow the advice further up
[11:11:23] <alex_joni> check dmesg for a more specific cause
[11:11:35] <alex_joni> then look for rtai-config in /usr/realtime/..
[11:12:07] <maddash> alex_joni: "rtapi: version magic ' SMP [...] gcc-4.2' should be ' SMP [...] gcc-4.1'
[11:12:13] <maddash> wtf
[11:12:38] <maddash> if module versioning support were permitted in the rtai kernel...
[11:12:39] <alex_joni> guess you compiled with gcc-4.2 then
[11:13:23] <alex_joni> it's disabled for a reason
[11:13:53] <maddash> fenn: that's probably the easier solution, but returning to 4.1.2-15 might bork the dependencies
[11:14:19] <fenn> you can install multiple versions of gcc btw
[11:14:28] <alex_joni> fenn: guess he did
[11:14:58] <alex_joni> 4.1.2-15 and 4.1.2-18 should both be fine (compatible to each other)
[11:14:58] <maddash> ah, nvm. just relink `which gcc` to gcc-4.1
[11:15:03] <maddash> phew
[11:15:24] <alex_joni> maddash: I really suggest you fix your dpi issue
[11:15:52] <fenn> dpi?
[11:15:59] <maddash> alex_joni: what do you mean?
[11:16:15] <alex_joni> fenn: the other day he said he can't read stuff properly because of a misconfigured dpi issue on his X server
[11:16:25] <fenn> oh heh
[11:16:33] <maddash> ugh
[11:16:36] <alex_joni> might be what's causing gcc-4.1.2-18 != gcc-4.2
[11:16:50] <maddash> massive amounts of "deprecated conversion ..." msgs
[11:17:34] <maddash> is freenode doing this to me intentionally?
[11:17:42] <alex_joni> maddash: can't you do something about that toggling?
[11:17:50] <alex_joni> no, I think it's on your end..
[11:17:54] <maddash> alex_joni: yoou mean, gcc-4.1?
[11:17:56] <alex_joni> 13:08 -!- maddash [n=bryant@unaffiliated/maddash] has quit [Read error: 104
[11:17:56] <alex_joni> (Connection reset by peer)]
[11:18:34] <alex_joni> you might have a too small timeout set somewhere..
[11:18:35] <maddash> alex_joni: no, it's not, b/c yesterday, I connected from work, and right now, I'm connecting from home
[11:18:44] <alex_joni> same client?
[11:18:49] <maddash> lostirc
[11:19:09] <maddash> is there some administration channel for irc.freenode.net?
[11:19:20] <alex_joni> try /stats p
[11:19:39] <alex_joni> that way you reach freenode staff
[11:19:50] <maddash> :(
[11:19:51] <fenn> you can wail into the abyss a #freenode (if you get voiced)
[11:19:56] <maddash> so sorry.
[11:20:04] <alex_joni> maddash: how about trying another irc client?
[11:22:01] <maddash> hi ho, from inside gaim...
[11:22:11] <alex_joni> maybe it works better :)
[11:22:25] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is using irssi without issues for the last couple of years
[11:22:59] <maddash> * maddash thinks that cli is the wrong place for a chat client
[11:23:16] <fenn> you must have never used screen then
[11:23:45] <maddash> just dtach
[11:24:53] <maddash> what emc_io_cycle value gives assured responsiveness to iocontrol.0.* input?
[11:27:06] <alex_joni> what does assured responsiveness mean?
[11:27:11] <alex_joni> what do you expect?
[11:27:57] <alex_joni> usually iocontrol stuff is far from realtime needs, so running it 10 times / second is more than enough I'd say
[11:28:16] <maddash> well, if I'm running some overweight gcode file, I'd like iocontrol to sense a .1s signal at >=98% reliabiility
[11:29:00] <alex_joni> if the signal is too small for iocontrol to notice it I suggest adding a debounce filter in HAL
[11:29:28] <maddash> wouldn't debounce just make things worse?
[11:29:38] <alex_joni> why hsould it?
[11:29:52] <maddash> debounce semi-anesthetizes the receiver of its outputs
[11:30:19] <alex_joni> then a latch
[11:30:28] <maddash> meaning, i'd have to hold the signal up for, say, four times the duration before iocontrol sees it
[11:30:40] <maddash> ooh, so there's a HAL latch component?
[11:30:48] <maddash> all I could find was estop_latch
[11:31:07] <alex_joni> look for flip-flop
[11:31:25] <maddash> ah, i see what you mean
[11:31:41] <maddash> I didn't think of flip-flop that way until now
[11:35:09] <maddash> time to go to work
[11:40:37] <alex_joni> hmm.. I really love my wife's new laptop..
[11:41:25] <fenn> covet not thy spouse's laptop
[11:41:45] <alex_joni> it's nice and small, and has great battery life..
[12:08:23] <alex_joni> https://mail.rtai.org/pipermail/rtai/2007-December/018367.html hmm :)
[13:37:36] <maddash> what happens when a valid EMC_TASK_PLAN_OPEN is sent while emc is still running a g-code file (eg, in the middle of EMC_TASK_PLAN_RUN)
[13:37:37] <maddash> ?
[13:42:11] <maddash> bv
[13:42:13] <alex_joni> you'll probably get an error that you can't do that
[13:44:35] <maddash> let us experiment...
[13:45:41] <maddash> nope.
[13:46:06] <maddash> alex_joni: emc simply stops executing, and loads the file without an error. smart.
[14:00:45] <maddash> argh, whose brillliant idea was it to add all these underscores to the NML nomenclature?
[14:20:59] <maddash> under what criterion determines whether an NML type can be called by emctaskqueuecommand?
[14:21:43] <maddash> eg, what's to stop someone from stuffing EVERY nml type into the pre-condition check function inside emctaskmain?
[14:22:13] <maddash> if the answer to my question is 'nothing,' then the pre-condition check becomes pointless
[14:23:25] <maddash> and every command should be allowed into taskqueuecommand
[14:45:07] <maddash> wow, i think i scared off everyone
[14:45:15] <maddash> roar!
[14:50:34] <BigJohnT> in HAL I see "net" used with "<=", "=>" and without what is the difference?
[14:50:54] <maddash> none.
[14:51:17] <BigJohnT> what does the "=>" do?
[14:51:19] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: they are only for reference
[14:51:32] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: e.g. to help the user reading the hal files
[14:51:39] <alex_joni> HAL itself doesn't regard them
[14:51:54] <BigJohnT> alex_joni: ok, thanks
[14:52:12] <alex_joni> maddash: the precondition checks are done for certain messages
[14:52:30] <alex_joni> and the actual preconditions are coded there
[14:54:20] <alex_joni> I must say, I'm not sure it's the best place ..
[15:17:22] <maddash> why does emctaskmain.cc bother with EMC_AUX_ESTOP_OFF? why can't it simply set emcStatus->io.aux.estop=0?
[15:22:14] <Jessica> Mornin, all.
[15:22:27] <maddash> whoa.
[15:22:31] <Jessica> Hey, anyone in here a materials engineer?
[15:22:47] <Jessica> hi Mad. "whoa" what?
[15:22:58] <maddash> ...nothing....
[15:23:34] <Jessica> Not the "girl geek" thing again, eh?
[15:25:03] <maddash> sort of. and i don't think there are any materials engineers in here.
[15:25:32] <Jessica> ok, so, I'm trying to locate an odd material, but I have no clue where to look. freenode doesn't have a "materials" room. I'm thinkin I might have to open a dialog with some materials prof at a university.
[15:26:30] <cradek> do you mean you don't know what to use for an application, or you know what to use but don't know where to find it?
[15:26:33] <Jessica> yeah, mad... i get it here, and in electronics as well. that said, people are starting to get used to me.
[15:26:39] <Jessica> hi chris
[15:26:47] <cradek> Jessica: http://xkcd.com/322/
[15:26:49] <cradek> hi
[15:27:41] <maddash> cradek: I DARE you to emp my box
[15:27:49] <Jessica> I'm looking for a fluid that expands and contracts based upon an external stimuli. maybe something that phase shifts when it gets zapped by 'lectricity or something.
[15:28:26] <cradek> sounds fun, but no clue
[15:28:28] <maddash> Jessica: those are experimental at best.
[15:28:30] <Jessica> mad, emp'ing equipment is easy.
[15:28:44] <maddash> Jessica: actually, water works fine, too, assuming you've severl hundred thousand volts
[15:29:02] <Jessica> yeah, or a change in temp...
[15:29:14] <maddash> no, I was being serious
[15:29:21] <Jessica> yeah, so was i/
[15:29:41] <maddash> well, maybe not hundred thousand...
[15:30:30] <maddash> what about liquid crystals?
[15:30:48] <Jessica> mad, i think they just change orientation, not volume
[15:30:56] <Jessica> dunno for sure
[15:32:03] <cradek> yeah they work just by aligning the crystals
[15:32:15] <cradek> the fluid is just a carrier
[15:32:36] <Jessica> ok, on a different note, anyone know of a source for dual shafted steppers in very small sizes. kinda on the order of 3.5" floppy steppers, but with more torque?
[15:40:36] <maddash> hmm, is it possible to queue nml messages onto emccommandbuffer? ie, emccommandbuffer->write((EMC_AXIS_HOME*)) followed immediately by, emccommandbuffer->write((EMC_TASK_SET_MODE_AUTO*))?
[15:41:40] <cradek> I think there's only room for one. you have to wait until it's acknowledged.
[15:42:34] <maddash> what if I write one, acknowledge one, and immediately write a second?
[15:42:39] <maddash> hm, let me experiment...
[15:53:22] <maddash> wow, it just bounced right off
[15:55:22] <maddash> damn, I forgot to whois her
[15:59:48] <maddash> what the heck is the point of such an elaborate IPC protocol if you can't stack messages
[15:59:52] <maddash> ?
[16:00:09] <maddash> and how dare it be named, "emccommandBUFFER"
[16:51:39] <Ziegler> maddash: I am in another predominantly male chan that a "french lady" stops in every so often... never says anything and leaves. I swear its just a bot to get everyone to do a /whois
[16:52:43] <maddash> Ziegler: haha.
[16:54:19] <Ziegler> actually... I have noticed quite a few nicks pop in in the last couple weeks that have the similar domains... that never say anything but a quick "hello" and then leave about 10-15 min later.
[16:57:13] <Unit41> im tired of being rite
[16:57:30] <Unit41> lets play a new game of choice
[16:57:39] <Unit41> chess anyone ?
[16:58:03] <Unit41> play code the emc better than Unit41
[16:58:18] <Unit41> cause, it wont take much im a washout coder
[16:58:36] <Unit41> burnout
[17:15:17] <maddash> does anyone know what EMC_AUX_HALT_TYPE means? it is not called by anything inside src/emc/
[17:16:33] <alex_joni> maddash: there are a couple NML messages which are not used anymore
[17:25:01] <alex_joni> maddash: http://eneas.juve.ro/~juve/emc/nml/NML%20messages%20usage%20desc.csv
[17:35:05] <maddash> jesus christ, that file is hideous
[17:45:18] <lerneaen_hydra> anyone here know mdadm any well? specifically how to manually force a resync?
[18:03:16] <maddash> when using an external estop switch (eg, net ext-estop parport.0.pin-01-in iocontrol.0.emc-enabled-in), how does emc know to transition from estop to estop-reset as soon as I release my estop switch?
[18:04:52] <maddash> the mini doc at the top of iocontrol.cc states that user-request-enable neeeds to be active, but I can't find any code in src/emc/ that comes in contact with that pin
[18:05:24] <cradek> external estop buttons being OK only mean that you can get into estop reset using the gui
[18:07:14] <maddash> really? that's not the case here...
[18:07:37] <cradek> ok, I bet there are many ways to set it up, that's the one I'm familiar with
[18:08:17] <alex_joni> maddash: it depends how you hook up emc-enabled-in and user-enable-out
[18:08:19] <maddash> when I fire up tkemc using configs/stepper/stepper_inch.ini, with the only modification to standard_out.hal being the ext-estop signal, pushing the switch causes ESTOP, while letting go causes RESET
[18:08:27] <maddash> I just want to know how this is happening
[18:08:36] <alex_joni> iocontrol + task
[18:08:48] <maddash> not really...
[18:08:49] <cradek> I like the setup in demo_sim_cl
[18:09:27] <maddash> I followed the dir at the bottom of http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/config/stepper/index.html
[18:09:34] <maddash> this is super funky
[18:10:23] <alex_joni> maddash: that description is correct
[18:10:40] <alex_joni> although it's not the best way to implement estop, it's the easiest way for new users
[18:10:52] <maddash> that's not the point; how is it going back to RESET?!!
[18:11:46] <maddash> the only thing even remotely related to emc-enabled-in is aux.estop, and aux.estop is only read inside emctaskmain's while(!done) loop inside main()
[18:13:17] <alex_joni> if ( *(iocontrol_data->emc_enable_in)==0) //check for estop from HW
[18:13:17] <alex_joni> emcioStatus.aux.estop = 1;
[18:13:17] <alex_joni> else
[18:14:31] <maddash> yes, that's the first part of my statement
[18:15:24] <maddash> but even if aux.estop =0, there's nothing inside emctaskmain that checks for this condition and sets emcStatus->task.state to RESET
[18:15:42] <maddash> hold on,I hacked in a few extra debug msgs
[18:15:57] <JymmmEMC> maddash: When you said "pushing the switch causes ESTOP, while letting go causes RESET" is that kybd or bigredbutton ?
[18:16:13] <maddash> FAT red springy button
[18:17:23] <JymmmEMC> So, twisting the fat red button, "release" (resets) the Estop function, and the machine is functional again?
[18:17:58] <maddash> yes, yes
[18:18:08] <JymmmEMC> Oh, that's is just SO WRONG!
[18:18:12] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: not functional
[18:18:16] <alex_joni> you need to push machine on
[18:19:12] <maddash> I thought I was clear the first time: PUSHING red button => ESTOP In the upper left corner of tkemc, RELEASING red button => ESTOP RESSET In the same corner
[18:19:45] <alex_joni> maddash: there's no reason to get angry
[18:19:52] <alex_joni> that is the intended behaviour
[18:20:07] <alex_joni> so it works right
[18:20:11] <maddash> not angry, frustrated
[18:20:19] <maddash> it works perfect, but I don't know how!
[18:21:02] <JymmmEMC> It's kinda confusing a bit.... softESTOP is a toggle on/off, HardESTOP is ON/OFF (In/out).
[18:21:21] <maddash> my big fat red button is a push button
[18:21:33] <alex_joni> maddash: look for determineState()
[18:23:52] <maddash> taskupdate is called each cycle of while (!done), which in turn sets task.state to determinestate(). god, so convoluted.
[18:24:52] <maddash> now I've forgotten why I even chased after iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in in the first place...
[18:25:39] <alex_joni> lol @ maddash
[20:13:26] <robin_sz> meep?
[20:13:54] <robin_sz> * robin_sz has been staring at the servos on his laser ...
[20:14:12] <robin_sz> 150A peak, 30A cont ... quite scary really
[20:14:32] <robin_sz> drives a re a bit old though, bosch indramat
[20:22:08] <ds2> Mmmmmm instant fried eyeballs
[20:37:47] <eric_U> hopefully the servos on the laser wouldn't fry your eyeballs
[20:38:02] <eric_U> "do not stare into laser with remaining good eye"
[21:06:25] <Unit41> bababababa
[21:06:32] <Unit41> doooooo
[22:43:55] <robin_sz> you know its a big servo motor whenthey mount a fan on the back of it :)
[22:44:16] <robin_sz> that reminds me, must ebay those other two servos
[22:44:36] <robin_sz> size of a pallet, sodding things
[23:57:40] <Gamma-X> hey everyone
[23:57:46] <Gamma-X> i finally bought a vfd