#emc | Logs for 2007-12-27

[00:00:43] <anonimasu> fenn: spindle motor though.
[00:00:59] <fenn> i thought he already bought a vfd
[00:01:02] <anonimasu> that's a bigger problem
[00:01:14] <BigJohnT> only the spindle should be 3 phase on the anilam
[00:01:15] <Gamma-X2> nope
[00:01:19] <Gamma-X2> didnt buy anything yet
[00:01:22] <anonimasu> yep that's right
[00:01:24] <Gamma-X2> have to wait till friday to get some cash
[00:01:44] <BigJohnT> gamma, do you have any electric motor shops in your area
[00:01:45] <anonimasu> and the servodrives and stuff is using one phase off the same connector..
[00:02:02] <fenn> well that is easy enough to fix
[00:02:42] <BigJohnT> yep, I split mine out on my Anilam 1100m and put a potential relay in to drop out the servos if the spindle quits
[00:03:24] <anonimasu> BigJohnT: there should be a estop circuit for dropping out the servos..
[00:03:30] <BigJohnT> doesn't stop you from doing a 1" deep pocket with a 3/4 doc end mill though
[00:03:30] <anonimasu> or what do you mean?
[00:03:52] <BigJohnT> yea, but if your across the room your arms are not long enough
[00:04:01] <anonimasu> hehe
[00:04:03] <anonimasu> the joy of cnc
[00:04:04] <anonimasu> :D
[00:04:13] <BigJohnT> if my phase converter drops out so does my servos!
[00:04:22] <anonimasu> ah..
[00:04:28] <Gamma-X2> no motor shops that i know of
[00:04:32] <anonimasu> I love living in sweden for that reason
[00:04:35] <anonimasu> :p
[00:04:37] <BigJohnT> where do you live
[00:04:39] <anonimasu> we dont need converters
[00:04:52] <BigJohnT> you have 3 phase 220 to your house
[00:04:55] <anonimasu> yep
[00:05:03] <anonimasu> actually 340v..
[00:05:06] <anonimasu> or whatever it is now..
[00:05:07] <ALS> cooool
[00:05:13] <BigJohnT> Sweet! as they say in Arkansas
[00:05:16] <anonimasu> or 380.. cant remember..
[00:05:22] <anonimasu> yeah 380v..
[00:05:25] <BigJohnT> 380
[00:05:44] <ALS> 50 hz
[00:05:45] <BigJohnT> I've converted some equipment that had 380v 3p motors on them
[00:06:16] <BigJohnT> Yep, learned about that a long time ago with vibrator feed bowls from germany
[00:06:30] <anonimasu> :)
[00:06:31] <BigJohnT> would not run her at 60hz
[00:06:36] <BigJohnT> here
[00:06:39] <gezr> wait a moment, bigjohnT you in arkansas?
[00:06:49] <BigJohnT> NOT!
[00:06:53] <anonimasu> it seems like lots of people in the usa has trouble getting 3phase
[00:06:55] <BigJohnT> Missouri
[00:07:00] <gezr> ah
[00:07:13] <BigJohnT> It's no trouble it just cost more
[00:07:19] <anonimasu> alot more?
[00:07:21] <fenn> several thousand dollars
[00:07:23] <gezr> 3 phase isnt a problem its that most residential lines were only ran as single phase
[00:07:28] <BigJohnT> depends on the area
[00:07:33] <fenn> depending on how far you live from the 3-phase line
[00:07:35] <anonimasu> installation I guess..
[00:07:40] <BigJohnT> yep
[00:07:41] <anonimasu> that's the same here.. I think
[00:07:53] <anonimasu> just that most houses have it wired in..
[00:08:01] <gezr> if your lucky to get 3phase service you normally pay a fixed amount for power here, ie, a minimum bill of 270 or more
[00:08:06] <BigJohnT> they want you to sign a 10 year contract to hook up 3 phase to my machine shop
[00:08:14] <anonimasu> -_-
[00:08:18] <anonimasu> heh
[00:08:20] <BigJohnT> screw them I love phase converters
[00:08:33] <fenn> yep you will end up wanting a vfd anyway
[00:08:47] <ALS> demand meter here
[00:08:48] <BigJohnT> only if you want the speed control
[00:08:56] <anonimasu> fenn: they dont replace phase converters
[00:09:02] <BigJohnT> I run three machines off my converter
[00:09:12] <fenn> er, right
[00:09:24] <gezr> bigjohnT you near branson by chance?
[00:09:49] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[00:09:52] <anonimasu> time to sleep
[00:09:54] <BigJohnT> nope
[00:09:54] <anonimasu> laters!
[00:09:59] <gezr> night anonimasu
[00:10:23] <BigJohnT> not too far from me just down 60 west for a while then jog off the road
[00:10:52] <BigJohnT> gerz: you live in branson?
[00:12:37] <BigJohnT> night anonimasu
[00:13:00] <BigJohnT> gezr: you live near branson?
[00:14:16] <fenn> wow i just ate two cans of olives
[00:14:36] <BigJohnT> damm...
[00:14:49] <ALS> drink the juice too
[00:15:23] <BigJohnT> anonimasu: I took the ferry from Copenhaegn dor sweden once but it was closed on sunday
[00:15:50] <BigJohnT> to Helsingborg I think
[00:16:30] <Gamma-X2> BigJohnT what kind of 3 phase converter would u buy
[00:16:39] <Gamma-X2> i was gunna buy a vfd but i dont wanna mess with wiring and the motor
[00:16:58] <Gamma-X2> the servos are on what i believe to be a step down transformer to 140v
[00:17:11] <BigJohnT> well a 3 phase converter would be for the spindle
[00:17:18] <cradek> 140 ac, or is 140 the dc bus?
[00:17:22] <BigJohnT> where do you live gamma
[00:17:30] <Gamma-X2> BigJohnT ny
[00:17:38] <ALS> what is the motor wire for?
[00:17:49] <Gamma-X2> ?
[00:17:52] <Gamma-X2> motor wire for?
[00:17:55] <Gamma-X2> 3 phase 220
[00:17:58] <Gamma-X2> 230*
[00:18:00] <ALS> 220 440
[00:18:12] <BigJohnT> there has got to be some motor shops near you look in the lallow pages as my buddy's daughter says
[00:18:37] <Gamma-X2> BigJohnT my zip code is 11715
[00:18:50] <BigJohnT> you can pick up a cheap 5-10 hp three phase motor from a motor shop and make a converter
[00:19:29] <Gamma-X2> not worth it id rather buy one brand new for 300 bucks
[00:19:29] <BigJohnT> blue point NY
[00:19:33] <Gamma-X2> yup
[00:19:43] <fenn> that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard
[00:19:48] <ALS> down state?
[00:19:57] <Gamma-X2> long island
[00:21:08] <BigJohnT> then what are you asking?
[00:21:49] <BigJohnT> you will need a larger motor for the phase converter than the one you are running
[00:21:51] <Gamma-X2> what brand is best for the price
[00:22:14] <ALS> the one you get for 300 bucks
[00:22:16] <BigJohnT> I don't waste my money on them they are too easy to wire up
[00:22:18] <Gamma-X2> it sucks ill prolly be using twice the electric lol
[00:22:39] <BigJohnT> is it a rotary phase converter or static?
[00:23:14] <fenn> Gamma-X2: get a 3 hp single phase vfd, and run your servos from single phase 120
[00:23:15] <Gamma-X2> ill prolly get a rotary so i dont loose any power.
[00:23:37] <Gamma-X2> fenn i dont wanna mess anything up with the wiring.
[00:23:43] <fenn> well, too bad
[00:23:51] <BigJohnT> rotary or vfd they are the same to hook up
[00:23:57] <fenn> maybe you could hire an electrician
[00:24:11] <Gamma-X2> ....
[00:24:34] <Gamma-X2> i was figuring ii could do it cheaper with a rotary and i cant use all the featurs of a vfd cause of my controller
[00:25:11] <fenn> i'm sure you can figure out how to hook up a knob
[00:25:17] <BigJohnT> you don't run your controller from the vfd just the spindle motor
[00:26:30] <Gamma-X2> i gotta see where the servos are gettin power from then
[00:26:32] <BigJohnT> IMHO the only reason to use a VFD is if you want to control the speed of the spindle with the VFD
[00:26:47] <BigJohnT> take some pictures
[00:26:54] <Gamma-X2> wheres my camera...
[00:27:00] <BigJohnT> I'll point you in the right direction
[00:27:01] <Gamma-X2> my phone! lol
[00:27:04] <Gamma-X2> ok hold on
[00:27:09] <Gamma-X2> fudge i hate gettin up hahahah
[00:27:19] <fenn> mmm.. fudge
[00:27:38] <BigJohnT> come on turn of the magnet ass and get up
[00:27:42] <Gamma-X2> brb 8 mins\
[00:27:44] <Gamma-X2> lol
[00:27:48] <BigJohnT> ok
[00:28:29] <BigJohnT> ok, can you use a float from emc to use as the preset for a timer in classicladder?
[00:30:11] <fenn> BigJohnT: no, but it would be nice
[00:30:21] <BigJohnT> DARN
[00:30:59] <fenn> oh wait
[00:31:10] <gezr> gamma-x2 your machine already has a vfd for the spindle motor I bet, you just need to supply it with 3 phase
[00:31:23] <fenn> there were some recent changes allowing float pins with classicladder.. maybe you can do something with that
[00:31:30] <gezr> gamma-x2 your machine came pretty much all ready to go right?
[00:31:42] <gezr> its even got a control on it right?
[00:31:45] <fenn> there's no demo config for that stuff though
[00:32:02] <BigJohnT> fenn: do they have any doc's on it
[00:36:10] <fenn> according to 'man classicladder' there should be float pins, but i dont see anything in the documentation
[00:36:33] <BigJohnT> hmmm
[00:36:51] <BigJohnT> would be sweet
[00:36:56] <fenn> er, int, not float
[00:37:21] <BigJohnT> int would work just use a 100ms timer...
[00:37:35] <gezr> gamma-x2 : read this http://www.elect-spec.com/rotary.htm#1
[00:38:56] <fenn> * fenn looks at the source
[00:41:51] <fenn> BigJohnT: you have to add for example numS32in=10 numS32out=10 to the loadrt classicladder line
[00:41:57] <BigJohnT> bbl dinner bell rings
[00:47:02] <ds2> wheeeeee
[00:48:00] <Gamma-X2> back
[00:48:05] <Gamma-X2> now to get the things on the computer
[00:48:18] <Gamma-X2> servos are max 2400 rpm.
[00:48:28] <Gamma-X2> max pulse amps 30
[00:48:43] <Gamma-X2> they run on 140
[00:48:49] <fenn> 140 ac or dc
[00:48:56] <Gamma-X2> idk
[00:48:59] <Gamma-X2> didnt say
[00:49:07] <Gamma-X2> id assume dc.
[00:49:08] <fenn> where did it say that number? on the servo?
[00:49:11] <Gamma-X2> yes
[00:49:15] <fenn> ok, probably dc then
[00:49:43] <fenn> Gamma-X2: conveniently, 110VAC recitifes to 140DC
[00:50:00] <fenn> you still need an isolation transformer though
[00:50:48] <ds2> are there cheap sources for isolation xforms?
[00:51:21] <fenn> Gamma-X2: did it give a continuous current rating also?
[00:51:54] <Gamma-X2> no didnt see
[00:51:54] <fenn> ds2: the only non-industrial application i can think of is hi-fi stereos
[00:52:15] <ds2> what would a hifi use it for?
[00:52:32] <fenn> same thing pretty much, rectify to DC and drive an inductive load
[00:52:41] <ds2> ah
[00:52:45] <Skullworks_PGA1> Hospital equip all has to use isolation
[00:53:39] <ds2> Hmmm hospital equipment seems to be sources for a lot of interseting parts.. too bad I can't find any surplus sources of junk equipment
[00:54:10] <fenn> Gamma-X2: actually you can probably feed it 240V (split phase) and get the right voltage out
[00:54:16] <fenn> the transformer that is already there
[00:54:26] <Gamma-X2> where do i send these photos i jsut took
[00:54:31] <fenn> imagebin.org
[00:55:17] <Gamma-X2> brb restarting
[00:55:38] <Skullworks_PGA1> ds2 - your location?
[00:55:57] <ds2> Skullworks_PGA1, SF Bay area in California, USA
[00:56:34] <Skullworks_PGA1> * Skullworks_PGA1 is picking fresh oranges down in L.A. for the holidays
[00:56:39] <fenn> lots of surplus stores in san diego
[00:56:45] <fenn> semiconductor crap
[00:56:46] <ds2> oranges are ripe already down there?
[00:57:18] <ds2> fenn: yeah, that stuff is up here but nothing in line with medical stuff... wanted to get a cheap laser for some engraver experiments and tmedical sources are suppose to be the cheapest
[00:57:21] <Skullworks_PGA1> yep trees still are full of lemons, Oranges and Avacadoes
[00:57:52] <Skullworks_PGA1> and still a few tomatoes
[00:57:52] <ds2> lemons are year round but oranges up here will take a few more months for max sweetness and that's navel
[00:58:05] <Skullworks_PGA1> these are naval
[00:58:19] <ds2> are they sweet and sticky at this time?
[00:58:35] <Skullworks_PGA1> jucie
[00:58:48] <Skullworks_PGA1> not very sticky
[00:59:12] <ds2> at least up here, I wait til around Mar/Feb, there is enough sugar in them that fingers get sticky
[00:59:24] <ds2> they have color now, but aren't that sweet
[01:00:46] <Skullworks_PGA1> I'll be back here in May, but the next crop of avocados will only be thumb sized by then.
[01:01:06] <ds2> what is avacados good for besides gacamole?
[01:01:22] <Gamma-X> sushi
[01:01:30] <Gamma-X> on a salad with
[01:01:30] <fenn> i like to eat them alone, with miso spread on top like butter
[01:01:39] <ds2> Hmmmm
[01:01:56] <ds2> what exactly is miso? (just know it as the soup)
[01:02:09] <fenn> its the sludge you get when making soy sauce
[01:02:14] <cradek> avocados with wheat bread, mayo and pepper
[01:02:21] <ds2> Oh I see
[01:02:24] <cradek> mmm
[01:02:24] <Skullworks_PGA1> avocado and tomato sandwiches - or that in a grilled cheese
[01:03:00] <ds2> wonder if they are hardy up here
[01:03:22] <Skullworks_PGA1> and yeah - if you have a good supply there great as is with just a touch of garlic salt.
[01:04:12] <Gamma-X> http://imagebin.org/12617
[01:05:26] <Gamma-X> there comin
[01:05:34] <Gamma-X> http://imagebin.org/12618
[01:06:42] <Gamma-X> http://imagebin.org/12619
[01:07:15] <Gamma-X> http://imagebin.org/12620
[01:07:51] <cradek> the curse of the membrane keypad!!
[01:08:11] <Gamma-X> http://imagebin.org/12621
[01:08:58] <Gamma-X> http://imagebin.org/12622
[01:09:09] <fenn> well it's got handwheels so you can use it as a manual mill at least
[01:09:25] <cradek> yeah that's nice
[01:09:56] <Gamma-X> http://imagebin.org/12623
[01:10:54] <Gamma-X> http://imagebin.org/12624
[01:11:52] <Gamma-X> http://imagebin.org/12625
[01:12:07] <ALS> he's not as good at photo's as jepler/ JMK
[01:12:55] <Gamma-X> http://imagebin.org/12626
[01:12:57] <Gamma-X> hahaha
[01:12:59] <Gamma-X> its ony my phone! lol
[01:13:06] <Gamma-X> and i dont have patience
[01:13:14] <cradek> or focus
[01:13:15] <fenn> Gamma-X: make sure you clean out that coolant pump before running it
[01:14:13] <Gamma-X> yeah i know lol
[01:14:18] <Gamma-X> thats the oil
[01:14:21] <cradek> ugh, no jog wheel? just those membrane jog buttons?
[01:14:23] <Gamma-X> the coolant is even worse lol
[01:14:28] <Gamma-X> yup
[01:14:32] <cradek> that's awful
[01:14:40] <Gamma-X> cradek i plan on adding one in soon, im jsut gunna pick back it.
[01:14:54] <cradek> I don't know what that means
[01:15:03] <Gamma-X> piggy back*
[01:15:24] <cradek> I still don't know what that means...
[01:15:26] <cradek> bbl
[01:15:46] <Gamma-X> solder wires onto the buttons manualy
[01:16:38] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT what do u think
[01:18:33] <Skullworks_PGA1> MPJA and surplus center both seem to be fresh out of isolation transformers
[01:19:20] <fenn> in http://imagebin.org/12618 upper right, looks like a single phase transformer to me
[01:19:52] <fenn> i bet it's 2:1 step down
[01:20:06] <Gamma-X> prolly
[01:20:33] <fenn> test it with an AC wall wart first, you should get half the voltage out
[01:20:46] <fenn> then hook it up to 240VAC and see if it fires up
[01:20:58] <fenn> hopefully it doesnt catch on fire :)
[01:21:25] <Gamma-X> lol
[01:21:28] <ALS> Gamma-X: ebay has a 3hp rotory for $245
[01:21:47] <Gamma-X> should I bother with a vfd or jsut get a rotary lol
[01:22:07] <fenn> vfd would be cheaper if you are buying it on ebay
[01:22:21] <fenn> not to mention better in every respect
[01:23:00] <BigJohnT> just got back down here from dinner loading the pics now
[01:26:06] <ALS> I run my shop on rotary not to say I would'nt like a vfd but I would need six of them or more
[01:27:11] <Gamma-X> ok
[01:27:15] <Skullworks_PGA1> Gamma-X you have a bunch of ice cubes - don't wire directly when those are available.
[01:28:26] <Skullworks_PGA1> Gamma-X: you have a bunch of ice cubes there, no need to wire directly from a panel switch.
[01:28:39] <Skullworks_PGA1> oops
[01:28:45] <Gamma-X> ?
[01:28:49] <Gamma-X> say agagin lol
[01:28:52] <BigJohnT> gamma, the second pic has a transformer in it that looks like it powers the servos and computer
[01:29:00] <Gamma-X> in the garage now it 2 or 4 30 amp 120 lines
[01:29:12] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT agreed
[01:29:45] <fenn> Gamma-X: http://cgi.ebay.com/3-HP-VFD-VARIABLE-FREQUENCY-AC-MOTOR-SPEED-DRIVE_W0QQitemZ140192704353QQihZ004QQcategoryZ71393QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[01:30:23] <Gamma-X> fenn that would work quite nice cause my motor runs at 9 amps
[01:30:40] <Gamma-X> but i need to figure out how to wire it
[01:30:44] <Gamma-X> and what is an ice cube? lol
[01:31:10] <BigJohnT> from the main fuses do the wires run to the transformer in the second pic
[01:31:26] <BigJohnT> a square relay
[01:32:06] <Gamma-X> the big black hunk of crap
[01:32:13] <BigJohnT> yep
[01:33:04] <BigJohnT> a transformer has an inny and an outy
[01:34:49] <BigJohnT> the pic is fuzzy but it looks like you have two hots and two neutrals from the left side of the transformer
[01:35:57] <ALS> he must be lookin for ice cubes
[01:36:28] <BigJohnT> must be
[01:36:43] <gezr> his transformer is probably 220v in, 120, 24 and maybe 10 out, maybe even 36 out....
[01:37:05] <gezr> well the in is probably 220, 380, 440 but I cant tell without looking
[01:37:06] <BigJohnT> mine was 480v in 120v out for my anilam
[01:37:10] <Gamma-X> i have a manual hold on
[01:37:22] <BigJohnT> ok
[01:37:57] <BigJohnT> but that just depends on the builder
[01:38:22] <gezr> yeah, some do specific voltage in on the transformers, so use multi tap
[01:38:57] <BigJohnT> the anilam was straight forward and only needed 120vac to run
[01:39:02] <robin_sz> VFDs are just SO good
[01:39:20] <robin_sz> we even fit them to 3 phase gear and we have 3 phase power!
[01:39:26] <gezr> but remember on some cnc machines, there is a dual component, ie, switches and junk are 24v, controls 110v, then say the servo packs are 110v, and then they have a 3phase section as well
[01:39:41] <fenn> hey this looks like a pretty good deal, only $15/hp http://cgi.ebay.com/thor-7000-7402-250mhf-250-hp-vfd-ac-inverter-v31-02_W0QQitemZ270156159790QQihZ017QQcategoryZ78192QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m118
[01:39:51] <BigJohnT> yes, but the old anilams are not like that
[01:40:32] <BigJohnT> I just ordered 10 of them
[01:41:01] <fenn> BigJohnT: what voltage are the switches and such?
[01:41:37] <BigJohnT> on my anilam they are part of the anilam circuit in the control panel...
[01:41:54] <gezr> robin you there for real?
[01:42:06] <BigJohnT> you only need to supply 120vac to the anilam to make it run
[01:42:21] <BigJohnT> then you supply what ever to the spindle to make it run
[01:43:00] <fenn> sounds too easy :P
[01:43:03] <BigJohnT> gezr: if you need speed control you use a VFD
[01:43:09] <BigJohnT> it is fenn
[01:43:10] <Gamma-X> yes but the servos run off of the main power not the 120 vac
[01:43:15] <fenn> i do wonder what all those wires are for
[01:43:26] <BigJohnT> show me gamma
[01:43:36] <Gamma-X> come to newyork
[01:43:47] <BigJohnT> take a picture
[01:43:53] <Gamma-X> lol
[01:43:57] <Gamma-X> of what though?
[01:44:01] <Gamma-X> exactly sorry.
[01:44:10] <ALS> probably only one leg of the main
[01:44:10] <BigJohnT> where you think the servos run off of 3 phase
[01:44:30] <Gamma-X> i was in a hurry before.
[01:44:32] <Gamma-X> let me look
[01:44:41] <BigJohnT> the servo drives are feed from the transformer
[01:44:52] <BigJohnT> it's single phase 120vac
[01:45:06] <fenn> doesnt it say this stuff in the manual?
[01:45:16] <Gamma-X> i know
[01:45:31] <fenn> are there schematics?
[01:45:52] <Gamma-X> the only 120 vac is a plug going into the controller arm head display, wich is used for the glass scales and the limit switches.
[01:45:59] <Gamma-X> fgenn yes but i have no idea what im lookin at
[01:46:01] <Gamma-X> very old
[01:46:23] <BigJohnT> there in lies the problem...
[01:46:32] <ALS> that's the pic we need
[01:46:50] <BigJohnT> you won't find a plug for the anilam it's hooked to the transformer
[01:47:03] <BigJohnT> you need an electrician
[01:47:17] <Gamma-X> the anilam head unit runs off 120 vac. looks like a computer cord.
[01:47:35] <Gamma-X> the servo cards and everything else runs off that blaack transformer in the upper right.
[01:47:39] <Gamma-X> on picture 1
[01:47:45] <BigJohnT> yes
[01:47:50] <Gamma-X> for the controller at elast
[01:47:56] <BigJohnT> and the servos
[01:48:07] <BigJohnT> the controller powers the servos
[01:48:10] <fenn> i wonder why they did that.. would make an unnecessary ground loop
[01:48:17] <BigJohnT> dunno
[01:48:51] <Gamma-X> i think cause if a fuse blows maby the servos stop running aswell as the spindle.
[01:48:52] <BigJohnT> gamma, does the transformer have any writing on it?
[01:48:59] <Gamma-X> but the controller knows where it is still
[01:49:17] <Gamma-X> not that i could see
[01:49:35] <BigJohnT> starting at the main fuses you have 3 wires where do they go
[01:50:13] <BigJohnT> do they go to a forward/reverse contactor
[01:50:23] <BigJohnT> and do 2 of them go to the transformer
[01:51:34] <Gamma-X> let me see
[01:51:46] <fenn> * fenn grumbles about schematics
[01:51:58] <BigJohnT> lol > fenn
[02:01:16] <BigJohnT> http://suburb.semo.net/jthornton/FermChill.htm
[02:05:38] <fenn> for gluing pink foam, i like to use rubber cement
[02:05:58] <BigJohnT> have you tried carpenters glue?
[02:06:05] <fenn> no
[02:06:18] <BigJohnT> works great
[02:06:40] <fenn> it's water based - how does it dry when it's between two waterproof surfaces?
[02:07:00] <BigJohnT> dunno
[02:09:49] <fenn> i bet gorilla glue would work pretty well
[02:10:24] <fenn> most of my foam work is for pattern making, so the expansion of the gorilla glue would ruin the pattern
[02:10:25] <BigJohnT> never tried
[02:10:27] <BigJohnT> it
[02:10:48] <BigJohnT> try yellow glue on a test piece
[02:11:00] <fenn> ok, how long do i wait?
[02:11:38] <BigJohnT> hmmm, didn't seem to take long but I didn't time it
[02:11:40] <fenn> i think my roomate is trying to kill me with an overdose of chocolate truffles..
[02:11:50] <BigJohnT> LOL
[02:12:07] <BigJohnT> what kind of patterns do you make
[02:12:36] <fenn> haven't any casting in years, but mostly lathe parts
[02:13:01] <BigJohnT> like hmmm, gingerly stuff
[02:13:06] <fenn> yep exactly
[02:13:22] <BigJohnT> ok know what you mean
[02:14:15] <fenn> here's a piece i cut with emc http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0637.JPG
[02:15:50] <BigJohnT> cool, what is it?
[02:15:58] <fenn> a lucky charm
[02:16:19] <fenn> its a sine function wrapped around a spiral
[02:16:19] <BigJohnT> cool, 3D
[02:16:27] <BigJohnT> sweet
[02:17:56] <fenn> lathe tailstock: http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0262.JPG http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0265.JPG
[02:18:03] <BigJohnT> well gotta go ttul
[02:18:09] <fenn> seeya
[02:18:20] <BigJohnT> ok gotta see the tailstock first
[02:18:39] <Gamma-X> im back
[02:18:53] <fenn> you can see the soda straw vents on the finished pattern
[02:18:53] <Gamma-X> 1st of all its verrrryyyy confusing.
[02:19:04] <BigJohnT> *** wife wonders when I'll come up out of the basement...
[02:19:05] <Gamma-X> wiring just runs everywhere
[02:19:23] <BigJohnT> yes fenn:
[02:19:25] <fenn> Gamma-X: this is why you need schematics
[02:19:29] <Gamma-X> i got them
[02:19:32] <Gamma-X> want a copy?
[02:19:35] <fenn> sure
[02:19:40] <Gamma-X> email?
[02:19:49] <Gamma-X> direct connect
[02:19:56] <Gamma-X> pikc ur flavor
[02:20:21] <BigJohnT> how do you do direct connect?
[02:20:47] <BigJohnT> fenn: did you cast the tailstock?
[02:20:52] <Gamma-X> sumtin like ./ctcp
[02:20:53] <ALS> got a scaner
[02:21:10] <fenn> BigJohnT: yep, coat it in drywall texture, then bury in dry sand, and pour in aluminum
[02:21:28] <BigJohnT> sweet
[02:21:55] <fenn> the yellow stuff is toilet bowl wax for fillets
[02:22:07] <fenn> the ring that seals to the sewer pipe
[02:22:12] <BigJohnT> gamma can you do that on the irc
[02:22:22] <fenn> i never had much luck with dcc
[02:22:30] <Gamma-X> i forget how lol
[02:22:39] <Gamma-X> my web broswer is messin up lol
[02:22:39] <BigJohnT> fenn: yea I KNOW what toilet bowl wax is LOL
[02:23:25] <BigJohnT> gamma we can continue tomorrow night time for me to go upstairs to visit with my wife
[02:23:48] <Gamma-X> lol ill try and work on it with fenn if he is available
[02:24:19] <BigJohnT> ok just remember it's simple once you know how... really
[02:24:43] <BigJohnT> start and the mains and work from there...
[02:24:50] <BigJohnT> gotta go
[02:24:55] <Gamma-X> got it
[02:24:57] <Gamma-X> lata thanks
[02:25:03] <ALS> Gamma-X:scan it
[02:26:49] <Gamma-X> i have them digitaly already
[02:26:49] <gezr> fenn, ihave to ask, you use the foam mold to fit into sand casting moulds?
[02:27:14] <gezr> or are you doing this investment style?
[02:27:28] <fenn> gezr: the foam mold vaporizes when you pour metal into it, and the hydrostatic pressure keeps th sand from collapsing
[02:28:00] <fenn> you usually dont need vents, but i had a lot of wax on that pattern, which generates more gas than foam
[02:28:19] <ALS> lost foam procces?
[02:28:22] <fenn> yes
[02:28:45] <Gamma-X> fenn u metal cast?
[02:28:51] <ALS> GM messena ,ny
[02:28:52] <gezr> fenn : very nice
[02:29:11] <fenn> dont have a finished picture because i left it at cnc-workshop on accident
[02:29:15] <gezr> what sort of metals you using, aluminum/tin?
[02:29:20] <fenn> just aluminum
[02:29:22] <gezr> or aluminum nickle, oh wow
[02:29:41] <gezr> how many cubes is your crucible?
[02:29:41] <Gamma-X> anyone know how to dcc on mirc?
[02:29:56] <fenn> its about 1.5 liters
[02:30:07] <gezr> I cant remember, /dcc send user file, or maybe there is a thing
[02:30:15] <fenn> ==100 in^3
[02:30:17] <gezr> try alt-s
[02:30:46] <gezr> so fenn you making your own lathe?
[02:30:55] <fenn> did and done
[02:30:59] <gezr> nice
[02:31:00] <gezr> pro
[02:31:12] <fenn> next step is electronics for the servos
[02:31:24] <gezr> oh?
[02:31:36] <gezr> servos and not steppers yeah?
[02:31:46] <fenn> i had a bad experience with steppers
[02:31:51] <fenn> and didnt really see the point
[02:32:12] <gezr> the money wall is what nailed me all the time with any of this
[02:32:19] <Gamma-X> fenn u gunna accept?
[02:32:32] <gezr> you going to build the drives or buy them?
[02:32:51] <fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0785.JPG http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0786.JPG
[02:33:06] <fenn> building the drives. i'm a cheapskate
[02:33:19] <Gamma-X> fenn accept the dcc
[02:34:15] <gezr> is that a cement base?
[02:37:02] <gezr> I could never find good plans on a servo drive
[02:37:28] <gezr> do you mind posting a potential link?
[02:37:31] <fenn> yeah there isnt much out there
[02:38:25] <fenn> here's my page on the project: http://fennetic.net/machines/?motherchip http://fennetic.net/machines/?iskewb
[02:41:49] <gezr> wow
[02:48:17] <fenn> gezr: it's somewhat unconventional because it's modular/distributed
[02:48:44] <fenn> the encoder reader is right next to the encoder, so you dont need to worry so much about noise
[02:50:07] <fenn> i figured microcontrollers were cheaper/easier/more libre than fpga's
[02:51:19] <gezr> uh oh, fpga?
[02:51:31] <gezr> sorry been browsing your wiki there
[02:51:38] <gezr> I dont know what fpga means
[02:51:46] <fenn> field programmable gate array. its a lame acronym
[02:51:58] <fenn> basically it's a big glob of programmable logic
[02:52:41] <gezr> ah okay
[02:52:42] <fenn> so you can set up a quadrature decoder and fast up/down counter and serial port in the same chip
[02:52:48] <The_BallJ> and very very quick
[02:53:16] <fenn> yes, everything happens in parallel, so you can count at say 20MHz rather than 200kHz
[02:53:47] <fenn> i havent figured out the maximum count for an attiny13 yet
[02:53:54] <fenn> rate*
[03:00:18] <jepler> fenn: if my cycle counting was right, attiny13 can count quadrature at 1MHz (but doesn't have time to do anything else): http://emergent.unpy.net/projects/01149348342
[03:00:25] <jepler> I never actually built it ..
[03:01:00] <fenn> if i used a different chip i could just output the counter value to a port
[03:03:28] <fenn> jepler: did cradek build one?
[03:03:56] <cyborg_ar> hello
[03:04:39] <cyborg_ar> zzzzz
[03:04:45] <cyborg_ar> zzzzzZZ
[03:05:29] <jepler> fenn: the one he built was the triple counter for atmega8 (see previous blog entry)
[03:06:02] <gezr> oops fancy software window popped up and told em to shut it down
[03:08:16] <fenn> well, i'll have to learn ASM to understand that. will put it off a little longer
[03:08:35] <fenn> trying to figure out python iterators right now
[03:08:43] <jepler> fenn: I wrote it based on advice from jmkasunich so I am not sure I fully understand it either
[03:09:25] <fenn> i wrote a quadrature decoder interrupt routine, so i figure it will be about the same
[03:09:39] <jepler> fenn: it's likely to have a much lower max rate
[03:09:43] <fenn> yes
[03:09:49] <fenn> i mean the logic will be similar
[03:10:22] <jepler> yes
[03:10:47] <fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/avrtut/quadrature/quadrature.c
[03:12:51] <Skullworks_PGA1> Once upon a time I could wade thru 6502 ASM code
[03:13:24] <jmkasunich> fenn: jepler: are you talking about the LUT based quadrature count code?
[03:13:30] <jepler> jmkasunich: yeah
[03:14:38] <gezr> heh, I just wipped out my wifes ipod
[03:14:58] <toastydeath> zing
[03:15:02] <gezr> I hope she wasnt mistaken when she said she had all her stuff on her computer
[03:15:33] <cradek> fenn: if I understand your count algorithm, it is bogus
[03:15:38] <jepler> I don't understand the "quadrature decoder" in that program -- it looks like it counts up when the inputs are 00 or 11, and counts down otherwise?
[03:15:52] <cradek> err, like he says
[03:15:55] <fenn> cradek: why is it bogus? (i'm not sure i remember how i came up with it)
[03:16:36] <fenn> the interrupt routine only happens when there is a change on ... B channel?
[03:18:03] <jepler> once you figure out what your code does again, consider what happens when it's presented with the quadrature signal shown here: http://emergent.unpy.net/projects/01149094674
[03:18:05] <fenn> i drew out the wave forms for quadrature and noticed that when B changes, if going left B and A were both 0, but when going right they are both 1
[03:18:34] <jmkasunich> are you doing x4 counting (count on every edge of each signal)?
[03:18:37] <fenn> yes
[03:18:40] <fenn> er
[03:18:42] <fenn> maybe
[03:18:46] <fenn> gah
[03:18:48] <cradek> fenn: I did something like that too at first; it doesn't work
[03:19:00] <fenn> um, but it does work
[03:19:08] <jepler> you have the additional problem that you first react to a change, then latch the value of channel A, then latch the value of channel B, so if the inputs are not stable during that time you will have an additional problem
[03:19:36] <jmkasunich> fenn: what happens if you oscillate back and forth around a single transition
[03:19:48] <jmkasunich> like from the 00 state to 01 and back to 00, or any other transition
[03:20:04] <jmkasunich> you should count up and back down again, no net counts
[03:20:37] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich is a very firm believer in the state machine approach to this problem
[03:21:13] <jmkasunich> 2 previous value bits, 2 current value bits, 16 possible states
[03:21:26] <jmkasunich> some of them count up, some count down, some (most) do nothing
[03:22:27] <cradek> there are lots of simpler (but wrong) algorithms - they are all over the net
[03:23:20] <fenn> after a change in B, if B and A are the same you are moving one direction. if they are different you're going the other direction
[03:23:38] <fenn> is that wrong?
[03:23:55] <cradek> yes
[03:23:59] <jmkasunich> yes
[03:24:05] <cradek> jiggle back and forth around the B change
[03:24:15] <cradek> it will accumulate counts
[03:24:47] <jmkasunich> uh, maybe not
[03:25:00] <jepler> no, because if A is 0, then the transition B 1->0 leaves B and A the same (count up); the next tansition B 0->1 leaves them different (count down)
[03:25:06] <jmkasunich> if you respond to both rising _and_ falling changes on B, I think its ok
[03:25:31] <jepler> it's not an x4 counter since it only reacts to 2 of the 4 edges
[03:25:35] <cradek> oh ok, because you count both directions at the same point in the cycle
[03:25:35] <jmkasunich> right
[03:25:39] <jepler> but it may not have the problem I thought it had
[03:25:47] <jepler> which is the one cradek was talking about as well
[03:26:04] <jmkasunich> most of the versions on the net are using hardware, like 74x74 flipflops, which count on one edge or the other, not both
[03:26:24] <jmkasunich> anyway, its still vulnerable to noise
[03:26:36] <jmkasunich> suppose there is a short noise glitch, less than the interrupt latency
[03:26:41] <fenn> yes, the pin values can change between the time the interrupt is triggered and the values are read
[03:26:49] <jmkasunich> it was 00, goes to 01, then back to 00
[03:27:10] <jmkasunich> the code reads the 00 and takes a count in the "same" direction, even tho there was no real move
[03:27:15] <jepler> can the avr latch the port value when the interrupt condition happens? (I don't think so; I've looked for it)
[03:28:10] <fenn> jepler: i've never heard of that, dont think so
[03:28:18] <jmkasunich> just poll the silly thing - latch the two bits as close to simultaneously as your hardware allows, and do the LUT thing
[03:28:42] <jmkasunich> as long as you sample at slightly more than the highest count rate you are fine
[03:29:04] <fenn> jmkasunich: that code was not for a stand-alone quadrature counter (some silly robot) so it had to do other stuff as well
[03:29:22] <jmkasunich> if the count rate has to be MHz, the "latch" should be a pair of clocked FFs, and the LUT is a bit of logic
[03:29:47] <fenn> what's a FF?
[03:29:51] <jmkasunich> if you don't need really fast rates, just write the code in an ISR and trigger it with a clock of a few KHz
[03:29:53] <jmkasunich> flipflop
[03:30:17] <jmkasunich> ISR:
[03:30:20] <jmkasunich> latch new values
[03:30:21] <fenn> oh. so the avr resets the flipflop each polling cycle
[03:30:23] <jmkasunich> merge with old values
[03:30:47] <jmkasunich> use merged value (4 bits) to look up increment in a table (-1, 0, +1)
[03:30:51] <jmkasunich> add increment to count
[03:30:54] <jmkasunich> return from unterrupt
[03:30:57] <jmkasunich> interrupt
[03:31:03] <fenn> what to do if you get a bad state transition? 10 to 01
[03:31:16] <jmkasunich> no count
[03:31:39] <jmkasunich> if it was noise, you'll most likely get another one next cycle, and you are back to where you were
[03:31:59] <jepler> cradek: do you know what '16 lamps' means in this context? (tubes?) 'Alexander Radio Factory 1961 - "a victory for soviet union - 12 channels, 16 lamps unseen image quality for the working class folks"'
[03:32:02] <jmkasunich> if it was real (you turned more than 1/4 of a complete cycle between samples, your shaft is too fast or your clock is too slow
[03:32:37] <jmkasunich> jepler: talking about a TV? sounds like tubes to me
[03:32:54] <fenn> do you think its worth the cycles to set an error flag?
[03:33:06] <jmkasunich> I doubt it
[03:33:19] <jmkasunich> the real question is what would you do with the flag?
[03:33:30] <fenn> count the number of errors
[03:33:40] <jmkasunich> the real question is what would you do with the number of errors?
[03:33:43] <fenn> tell the user
[03:33:45] <jmkasunich> are you gonna stop your machine?
[03:33:58] <fenn> no, just some kind of debug output
[03:34:14] <fenn> i guess you could download special firmware for debug mode
[03:34:38] <jmkasunich> I wouldn't bother
[03:34:55] <jmkasunich> but it is really an application dependent question
[03:35:08] <jepler> 'night all
[03:35:15] <jepler> good luck with your state transitions and all
[03:35:20] <fenn> thanks
[03:35:21] <jmkasunich> the LUT could easily have two values, one gets added to the position counter, one gets added to the error counter
[03:35:26] <jmkasunich> goodnight jeff
[03:35:44] <jmkasunich> but personally I think its a waste of cycles - the machine designer
[03:35:58] <jmkasunich> needs to make sure the clock to count rate ratio is appropriate
[03:37:48] <fenn> ok first i need to get emc running again, and then work on EPP comms to a micro
[03:41:21] <fenn> i need to set up a version control system
[03:49:12] <fsdafsd> lol
[03:50:02] <fsdafsd> i figured out how to make a complete 3 axis lathe out of 1 peice of angle iron and the leads
[03:50:39] <fsdafsd> cuts everything in a 360 deg R
[03:53:04] <fsdafsd> 1 angle iron 1 chair wheel and 2 powerful steppers 1 not so powerful
[03:53:32] <fsdafsd> I beam would work even better
[03:53:41] <fsdafsd> H beam same crap
[03:54:24] <fsdafsd> thats the recipe for a plasma cutter
[03:54:57] <fsdafsd> 2 chair wheels
[03:55:22] <fsdafsd> 1
[03:55:37] <fenn> h beam is no good for a lathe. you want a closed tube for maximum torsional stiffness, preferably with at least one side flat, to mount ways on
[03:55:49] <fenn> a lathe twists more than it bends
[03:56:21] <gezr> epoxy cement base ftw
[03:56:27] <fenn> then you get the opportunity to pack it full of concrete or whatever
[03:56:46] <gezr> * gezr is facinated with the whole cement machine idea
[03:57:04] <fenn> gezr: i think steel has a higher modulus than epoxy cement.. but i could be wrong
[03:57:31] <fsdafsd> I said to my parrents no dont throw that old desk out its made from mfd I badly need
[03:57:38] <fsdafsd> christmas rolls around what do they do ?
[03:57:44] <fenn> so if you fill a steel tube with cement you get the modulus of steel combined with the damping properties of the cement
[03:57:45] <fsdafsd> burnt it
[03:58:24] <gezr> a machine made of epoxy cement is more stable then one of mehenite cast
[03:58:28] <fenn> fsdafsd: do you have a way to get concrete mix?
[03:58:34] <fsdafsd> shit ya
[03:58:37] <fsdafsd> money and car
[03:58:40] <fenn> then forget about mdf
[03:58:55] <fsdafsd> concrete sounds a bit heavy and hard to set
[03:59:10] <fenn> mass damps vibrations
[03:59:11] <gezr> yep, but its a great foundation
[03:59:23] <fsdafsd> how do you stick the sides on ?
[03:59:27] <fsdafsd> hammer head cement drill ?
[03:59:30] <gezr> no
[03:59:31] <fenn> cast nuts into the cement
[03:59:38] <gezr> you yeah, what fenn said
[03:59:53] <fenn> put the slides on when you cast it, then they will be bedded in perfectly
[04:00:04] <gezr> you build mount points of metal, and they go into the form, you cast, then bolt on the rails, components
[04:00:14] <fsdafsd> sounds.... easy
[04:00:15] <fenn> do make sure everything is straight and well aligned
[04:00:26] <fsdafsd> too bad its -10 outside during the day
[04:00:35] <gezr> you can do cement inside heh
[04:00:38] <fsdafsd> drying cement emits co2
[04:00:41] <fsdafsd> and heat
[04:00:45] <fenn> yeah it will cure better inside anyway
[04:00:54] <fenn> co2 won't hurt you
[04:01:05] <gezr> not from a small pour like that
[04:01:24] <gezr> and you dont need an accelerant in it, to combat the outside cold
[04:01:27] <fsdafsd> so this is for the top too ?
[04:01:35] <fsdafsd> top table
[04:01:42] <gezr> let me find a link
[04:01:50] <fenn> i'm partial to bridge mills myself
[04:01:56] <fsdafsd> I bought 1kg of fantastic plastic too
[04:02:07] <fsdafsd> lots
[04:02:12] <fenn> oh god are you the guy who wanted to make gear racks out of plastic?
[04:02:33] <fsdafsd> no
[04:02:44] <fsdafsd> maybe
[04:02:48] <fsdafsd> fsdafsd is now known as Unit41
[04:02:56] <fenn> ah
[04:03:11] <cradek> jepler: I agree, 16 tubes/valves
[04:03:15] <Unit41> someone suggested to use pop bottles
[04:03:20] <Unit41> for plastic
[04:03:27] <gezr> wasnt looking for this but its darn sweet http://cncbridges.com/
[04:04:05] <Unit41> once the lathe is complete im going to plasma cut some 1/2 inch rach
[04:04:07] <Unit41> rack
[04:06:09] <fenn> bah i cant find anything in irclogs anymore
[04:07:12] <fenn> http://www.elektronikforumet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18483&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
[04:08:01] <fenn> so, probably a bit bigger than you were thinking, but that's the idea
[04:08:31] <Unit41> lol
[04:08:35] <Unit41> thats rad
[04:08:46] <Unit41> ty much
[04:09:21] <fenn> Unit41: you can get 1/2-10 acme threaded rod from enco for like $1/ft
[04:09:41] <Unit41> 30 dollars got me some 48"
[04:10:04] <Unit41> enco sounds better though
[04:11:18] <Unit41> it hates my browser though :(
[04:11:35] <fenn> hm, i thought enco got better about that
[04:12:41] <Unit41> luckily i have a synergised laptop handy
[04:13:39] <Unit41> http://cgi.ebay.ca/500g-MORPHPLAST-MOULDABLE-PLASTIC-THERMOPLASTIC-RESIN_W0QQitemZ360007004017QQihZ023QQcategoryZ1189QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m122
[04:14:23] <gezr> 1/2 10 acme from enco is going to be rough
[04:14:48] <gezr> im no acme expert by any means, but you can get really good acme for a bit more then the base stuff
[04:15:14] <gezr> just a heads up
[04:16:09] <gezr> and 1/2 rod is sorta small dia, and over 2 feet without support it can whip some
[04:16:49] <gezr> saw this on a 26 foot 4" ball screw once
[04:17:16] <gezr> "what in the hell is that noise?"
[04:17:44] <Unit41> 1/2 inch seems to be the perfect weapon
[04:17:46] <gezr> it was whipping up and slapping its protective cover
[04:17:52] <Unit41> its light and rigid
[04:18:03] <gezr> just make sure you debur it really good
[04:18:15] <Unit41> not the good stuff
[04:18:33] <gezr> the good stuff is sweet, as good as a rolled ball screw almost
[04:18:40] <Unit41> mine came with some plastic nuts
[04:18:46] <gezr> really?
[04:18:50] <Unit41> ya
[04:19:00] <Unit41> hold for ebay seller
[04:19:19] <gezr> I have 1 little test axis set up, 1/2 inch with steel nuts, and a connector tab brazed on to connect to the traveling arm
[04:19:41] <gezr> I was making a ploter last time I was messing with emc :(
[04:19:49] <Unit41> http://search.ebay.ca/_W0QQsassZpremachine2004
[04:19:57] <gezr> i have the atlas set pretty much, lathe, mill, and shaper
[04:20:23] <fenn> the cheap rolled stuff from enco seems pretty nice to me.. no burs or anything
[04:21:29] <Unit41> I wish ebay had better sellers of bicycle chain
[04:21:44] <Unit41> that stuff is hard to find in quantity
[04:21:49] <fenn> Unit41: gonna make a fused deposition modeling rapid prototyper?
[04:21:59] <Unit41> no
[04:22:03] <Unit41> just tesla turbines
[04:22:09] <fenn> ah
[04:22:13] <fenn> that's how i started out too
[04:22:20] <fenn> still havent made one
[04:22:28] <Unit41> I found a use for them though
[04:22:36] <Unit41> going to make me millions
[04:22:40] <fenn> i can think of lots of uses
[04:22:53] <Unit41> but this is for oilfield :P
[04:23:07] <fenn> lawnmowers, vacuum cleaners, hybrid cars, UAV's
[04:23:19] <Unit41> www.teslaenergy.ca
[04:23:39] <Unit41> help me make content for it
[04:24:12] <fenn> what does geothermal have to do with oilfields?
[04:25:03] <Unit41> turbines on the flair stack
[04:25:06] <Unit41> flare
[04:25:15] <Unit41> waste heat recovery
[04:25:35] <fenn> gas turbine or steam turbine?
[04:25:39] <Unit41> gas
[04:26:59] <Unit41> when they say 1/2 - 10 what is the 10 ?
[04:27:03] <fenn> 10 threads per inch
[04:27:43] <fenn> its not always the same as the thread pitch though, for example you can have 5 turns per inch 2 start thread, and its still 10 threads per inch
[04:29:13] <gezr> 1/2 10 by the way, is only an acme thread :) or ball screw
[04:29:16] <Unit41> good to know
[04:29:26] <fenn> gezr: unless you make your own
[04:29:30] <gezr> boya
[04:29:55] <fenn> ugh.. mushroom spore insulation?
[04:30:13] <gezr> worst thing I ever did for anyone was I made a 1/4 10, square thread tapped hole in a brass piece for a catrac lathe
[04:30:40] <fenn> how'd you cut the square thread? endmill?
[04:30:40] <Unit41> fenn the best is using a mesh screen ocean salt water and electricity to build wall panneling
[04:30:43] <gezr> the guy send me his stuff, and I made the tap, then tapped the hole, and swore I would never do it again
[04:31:02] <gezr> fenn : I hand ground a bit
[04:31:23] <fenn> Unit41: there is a lot of unfounded hype about sea-crete which doesn't match the reality
[04:31:25] <gezr> hardinge sells the tap kits, they are 200 bucks a set
[04:31:58] <gezr> the guy was really happy, but i wasnt
[04:32:24] <gezr> the tap was ruined when I was finished, it made 1 hole perfectly
[04:32:56] <gezr> which is why a heat treat furnace is still really high on my stuff I want to own list
[04:33:27] <fenn> um. toaster oven?
[04:33:37] <gezr> got one of those, its my aneling oven
[04:34:20] <gezr> thats why the tap didnt shatter
[04:35:18] <gezr> but sitting outside with a mapp gas torch between my legs, part held by vice grips in one hand and a propane torch in the other with an oil quenching can near by is tehsux
[04:35:36] <fenn> yep
[04:35:51] <gezr> and propane is not enough to temper with
[04:35:54] <fenn> i saw a nice little heat treating furnace made with kaowool and a propane weed burner
[04:36:17] <gezr> oh?
[04:36:47] <gezr> I also made a 3/4 8 acme tap once
[04:37:02] <gezr> had to make new half nuts for ma lathe
[04:37:27] <gezr> turned that baby into a gear cutter, and ruined it on a hunk of cast hahaha
[04:38:07] <gezr> that doesnt really compare to building ones own lathe or making a cnc mill
[04:38:18] <Unit41> fenn is that econo 1/2 10 sharp threads ?
[04:38:30] <fenn> sharp threads?
[04:38:40] <Unit41> yea that come to a point
[04:38:46] <gezr> no, they have a flat
[04:39:03] <fenn> it's 2G acme, the flat is wider than the thread flank
[04:39:12] <gezr> well, they are probably rolled, so they have a funky profile on the top that by book terms should be a flat
[04:39:12] <Unit41> im buying from there then
[04:39:15] <Unit41> fck ebay
[04:39:23] <fenn> gezr: it's pretty flat
[04:39:43] <gezr> they dont have that funny squigly profile?
[04:40:19] <fenn> i could try to take a macro photo
[04:40:21] <gezr> if you look close almost a line to one side or in the middle?
[04:41:28] <gezr> so i tried to get the 350 to do the final disk copy for me, and it cant talk with the cdrom for some reason :(
[04:43:39] <gezr> oh I did make 2 .049 engines into a twin
[04:43:56] <gezr> it never ran because it would never suck fuel :)
[04:44:14] <Unit41> for a 6' x 6' mill would 5/8 be a better choice ?
[04:44:48] <gezr> its all a mater of the load your expecting to be exerting
[04:45:04] <Unit41> just its own
[04:45:33] <Unit41> and not be floppy
[04:46:01] <fenn> gezr: http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0788.JPG
[04:46:24] <gezr> then go with a common unit screw/nut combo for now, the 1/2 10 can provide a lot of force from a low force input because its almost a flat ramp / turn, and you can use simple factors of 10 in the configs
[04:46:38] <fenn> same pic from futher away http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0787.JPG
[04:46:50] <gezr> oh man thats nice
[04:47:22] <Unit41> lol nice tap
[04:47:23] <fenn> the stuff on the thread is dirt, not nicks or burs
[04:47:25] <gezr> hahha, from #1 i figured the one on the bottom was a tap
[04:47:42] <fenn> 30 second job with angle grinder :)
[04:48:11] <fenn> endmill would be better i suppose
[04:50:27] <gezr> http://picasaweb.google.com/dagezar/RaidJunk/photo#5148510397044065426
[04:52:14] <fenn> woah what happened to the tap shank?
[04:52:35] <fenn> oh i see, mt2 into tailstock socket and vise grips
[04:52:38] <cradek> pipe wrench
[04:52:48] <cradek> yow
[04:53:05] <fenn> that's acme thread, not square
[04:53:44] <gezr> I didnt use it in a mt2 socket though, not like that
[04:54:02] <gezr> yeah, that was the acme one, here is one of about 30 tries on teh square thread
[04:54:05] <gezr> http://picasaweb.google.com/dagezar/RaidJunk/photo#5148511101418701986
[04:55:06] <fenn> er, not found?
[04:55:20] <gezr> it should load
[04:55:59] <gezr> you should be able to navigate to it from the earlier one i think
[04:56:36] <gezr> you will notice the twist in it, was not a planed feature
[04:56:46] <gezr> I bet I can find all the old versions and lay them out ?
[04:57:02] <gezr> if you guys want to feel better and admire anothers ton of failure?
[04:59:28] <fenn> you know a scanner takes really nice macro photos
[05:09:50] <gezr> gonna try one more okay?
[05:10:25] <gezr> http://picasaweb.google.com/dagezar/RaidJunk/photo#5148515632609199282
[05:10:31] <gezr> let me know if that works please
[05:10:48] <a-l-p-h-a> flickr?
[05:10:50] <a-l-p-h-a> facebook!
[05:10:55] <a-l-p-h-a> imagebucket?
[05:11:00] <gezr> what?
[05:11:16] <a-l-p-h-a> what is that a picture of?
[05:11:23] <gezr> junk ive made
[05:11:29] <a-l-p-h-a> why hot pink?
[05:11:52] <gezr> I dont know of this hot pink
[05:12:10] <a-l-p-h-a> http://picasaweb.google.com/dagezar/RaidJunk/photo#5148510397044065426 l9ooks like acme threading
[05:12:27] <a-l-p-h-a> ouch... http://picasaweb.google.com/dagezar/RaidJunk/photo#5148511101418701986
[05:12:38] <a-l-p-h-a> gear cutting?
[05:13:09] <gezr> some, but that twisted mess was an attempt at a 3/8 10 square thread, the photo of all the junk has the one that ended up working,
[05:13:19] <gezr> its the long one with the funny big end
[05:13:36] <a-l-p-h-a> ahh
[05:13:43] <gezr> no I take that back, it was the one on the far right
[05:13:47] <gezr> the end of it snapped off
[05:13:48] <a-l-p-h-a> www.roton.com has those taps.
[05:15:00] <a-l-p-h-a> argh, it's past midnight again.
[05:25:42] <fenn> http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/encoder-60mm-256lines.jpg
[05:26:05] <fenn> i wonder why the jaggies look worse on the horizontal lines than on the vertical lines
[05:28:39] <fenn> this photo didnt turn out so well http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/acme-rod.jpg
[05:38:17] <Unit41> no kidding why is your ruler all messed up ?
[05:41:59] <gezr> ruler messed up?
[05:42:19] <Unit41> actually it looks easier to work with
[05:42:42] <gezr> fenn, yeah you can see the line im talking about near 20/32 it starts to show up
[05:42:43] <Unit41> but cought me by surprise
[05:47:58] <Unit41> * Unit41 looks around
[05:48:08] <Unit41> yep were definitily living in the future
[05:48:51] <Unit41> everything allways seems strange
[05:50:42] <Unit41> fenn are you looking for a coding partner ?
[05:51:28] <Unit41> if so you should band up with Twingy, he's working on gcam
[05:52:22] <Unit41> how far is gnu-cad-cam ?
[05:53:40] <Unit41> design stage - so not far
[05:54:04] <Unit41> gcam is gtk and opengl... both superb peices of coders
[05:58:10] <Unit41> python cad...
[06:05:54] <Unit41> ever had a girl walk up to you and say theres a party in my pants and your invited ?
[06:06:18] <Unit41> me either
[06:06:28] <Unit41> whats this earth comming to
[06:07:26] <fenn> O.o
[06:08:10] <fenn> i dont think twingy wants people messing up his code
[06:08:17] <Unit41> yes
[06:08:53] <fenn> gnu-cad-cam was like 5 years ago
[06:09:07] <fenn> 7 years
[06:09:08] <Unit41> 10k dollars for an autocad clone
[06:09:12] <Unit41> os
[06:09:18] <fenn> pff autocad sucks
[06:09:30] <Unit41> simular features like array and center though
[06:09:33] <Unit41> trim chamfer
[06:09:36] <Unit41> etc...
[06:09:40] <Unit41> offset
[06:09:46] <Unit41> the basics
[06:09:48] <fenn> are you talking about 2d cad?
[06:09:56] <Unit41> ya for plasma
[06:10:01] <fenn> look at qcad, its exactly what you want
[06:10:16] <Unit41> the professional one
[06:10:21] <fenn> i guess
[06:10:30] <Unit41> i dont mind paying aslong as it works good
[06:11:00] <fenn> i use the free version sometimes, never tried the CAM stuff
[06:12:05] <fenn> anyway qcad is GPL, CAMexpert is not
[06:12:46] <fenn> $220
[06:13:06] <Unit41> why does pyGTK seem so tempting when Im learning the c++ version too
[06:13:10] <fenn> i'm working on some 2d pocketing stuff
[06:13:12] <gezr> turbocad/cam
[06:13:17] <fenn> Unit41: because python is awesome?
[06:13:27] <fenn> and C++ is evil
[06:13:41] <Unit41> eheheheheval
[06:14:03] <Unit41> c++ rocks
[06:14:15] <Unit41> its so confusing I love it
[06:14:23] <fenn> its a nice place to visit but i wouldnt want to live there
[06:14:45] <Unit41> ive been doing gamedev for like 3 years
[06:15:02] <fenn> oh, before you blow your money on camexpert, look at ACE converter
[06:20:16] <gezr> how much are those?
[06:20:26] <gezr> Ih ave turbo so the upgrade to the cam is cheap
[06:20:45] <gezr> i dont think they have 3d yet though
[06:21:59] <Unit41> how hard is it to code something completely in g-code anyway ?
[06:22:16] <Unit41> haha j/k
[06:22:41] <gezr> depends on wether or not your doing 3d surfaces
[06:22:49] <Unit41> even 2d ears are hard
[06:22:58] <gezr> but for the most part gcode is simple
[06:23:07] <Unit41> yea
[06:23:30] <gezr> 3d stuff gets mistifying after a few thousand lines
[06:23:51] <gezr> macros makes it a bit easier
[06:24:11] <gezr> im going in for the night, goodnight yall
[06:24:18] <Unit41> gnite
[06:29:36] <Unit41> camexpert looks good allready
[06:33:28] <fenn> gezr: ACE is free and libre
[06:36:23] <Unit41> camexpert still has along way to go
[06:36:45] <Unit41> the center snap is buggy
[06:38:46] <Unit41> time for qcad
[06:40:08] <fenn> camexpert is like a plugin or something for qcad
[06:48:31] <Unit41> eat as much turkey as you can work out lots then sleep as much as you can
[06:48:55] <Unit41> thats what you do on boxing day
[06:49:50] <Unit41> cause the deals will still be there all week
[06:51:46] <Unit41> and what ever you dont not do is get a q-ray ionized bracelet for everyone in your family
[06:55:26] <Unit41> aha it does work properly
[06:55:44] <Unit41> both programs
[06:56:06] <Unit41> exactly what I needed
[06:56:16] <Unit41> other than its kde junk
[06:57:03] <Unit41> fenn i'de be willing to help on a qcad clone in python
[11:36:31] <BigJohnT> Is there a way to get a value from a spin box in axis to be the preset for a timer in classicladder?
[11:49:22] <BigJohnT> If not then I can use a radio button and a rung for each preset...
[12:18:20] <robin_sz> radio with presets?
[12:21:50] <robin_sz> Unit41: for plasma have a look at sheetcam, http://www.sheetcam.com
[12:22:37] <robin_sz> Unit41: does simple nesting, part rotation on the fly, arraying of parts on the sheet etc
[12:23:55] <robin_sz> Unit41: its free trial that generates up to 150 lines of gcode per program, beyond that its something like $60 for a license, but your best option for cheap/easy plama profiling and nesting
[12:27:56] <BigJohnT> robin_sz: what I'm doing is putting a way to select the length of pierce delay on the axis screen and linking it to my motion
[12:37:21] <gezr> morning yall
[12:41:22] <BigJohnT> morning
[12:50:45] <BigJohnT> In the classicladder section display how do you add another rung?
[12:54:07] <BigJohnT> never mind
[12:54:50] <maddash> "absolute jog"?????!
[13:01:29] <cyborg_ar> helloƧ
[13:02:06] <gezr> man i shouold be sleeping still, damn dogs decided to box me in and i couldnt move so I got agravated and woke up
[13:02:31] <gezr> and hello
[13:02:47] <cyborg_ar> mmm
[13:03:09] <cyborg_ar> what time is in your country?
[13:04:42] <gezr> 7am where im at
[13:05:03] <BigJohnT> anywhere from 8am to 4am
[13:05:17] <BigJohnT> where u located gezr:
[13:05:19] <cyborg_ar> 10 am
[13:05:35] <gezr> bigjohn im in conway
[13:05:41] <cyborg_ar> but i'm not sure
[13:05:51] <BigJohnT> poplar bluff here
[13:06:03] <gezr> oh yeah, your way up the road
[13:06:09] <BigJohnT> yea
[13:06:23] <cyborg_ar> because the congress did not decided our official time
[13:06:41] <gezr> beautiful drive in the fall, but thats about it
[13:07:01] <gezr> cyborg_ar 10 isnt that bad, at least the sun is up for you
[13:07:45] <gezr> bigJohnT : so in a few days, were gonna face off in the cotton bowl, any predictions?
[13:08:03] <BigJohnT> don't even follow it
[13:08:18] <cyborg_ar> i'm in the south hemisphere, so is summer here, we have the sun set from 6-7 am
[13:08:28] <gezr> nice
[13:08:45] <gezr> its 30deg ferinheit here i think
[13:08:50] <gezr> cold
[13:09:10] <BigJohnT> my deck is covered in a thin sheet of ice with a few snow flakes
[13:09:34] <cyborg_ar> 25 deg celcius here
[13:09:44] <cyborg_ar> very hot
[13:10:03] <cyborg_ar> mmm how about swapping locations?
[13:12:00] <gezr> no way, its like that here in the summer too
[13:12:24] <gezr> and the best part right now, is that the grass and weeds arnt growing
[13:14:15] <robin_sz> BigJohnT: putting the pierce delay in Axis? sounds very bad and wrong
[13:14:54] <BigJohnT> why
[13:15:17] <robin_sz> its exactly not hte way the industry does it basically
[13:15:30] <BigJohnT> how do they do it?
[13:15:39] <robin_sz> by all means put the material type/thickness in Axis though
[13:15:53] <BigJohnT> what will that do for me?
[13:16:13] <robin_sz> usually, you have a technology table, or "tech table" on most plasma/laser/flame controls
[13:16:32] <BigJohnT> and what do they contain?
[13:16:43] <robin_sz> this stores say, pierce delay, cutt speed, arc voltage, piercing hieght etc for ech material
[13:17:22] <robin_sz> when I played with EMC, I used the tool table to do most of that
[13:17:23] <BigJohnT> ok, how would I do that with EMC?
[13:17:34] <BigJohnT> ok
[13:18:27] <robin_sz> that way, once you have found the perfect cut speed, pierce height, pierce delay etc for a material, you dont have to remember it in your head etc, its just "milt steel, 12mm" in the tech table
[13:19:02] <robin_sz> ive got over 150 stored away in my laser :)
[13:19:06] <BigJohnT> Ok, I'll look at that, makes sense even this early in the morning
[13:19:31] <robin_sz> I did it very nicely in Mach2, with soem easy to use screens etc
[13:19:42] <BigJohnT> I've never run a CNC plasma so I don't know what is normal
[13:19:43] <robin_sz> pity the controller was crap :)
[13:19:49] <BigJohnT> LOL
[13:20:27] <BigJohnT> ok it's off to tool table land for me thanks
[13:21:08] <robin_sz> I hd to hack at the code a bit, but I got there in the end, I even hard corner current reduction working at one point
[13:21:23] <robin_sz> * robin_sz cant remember is the powermax 1250 has a corner current input
[13:21:48] <robin_sz> how are you doing the height sensing?
[13:21:57] <BigJohnT> what is corner current input?
[13:22:06] <BigJohnT> not at the moment
[13:22:12] <robin_sz> to reduce the cut current in corners?
[13:22:24] <BigJohnT> because of velocity changes
[13:22:27] <BigJohnT> ?
[13:22:27] <robin_sz> stops em burning up
[13:22:30] <robin_sz> yeah
[13:22:51] <BigJohnT> the current is a knob on the panel of the plasma
[13:22:57] <robin_sz> so, how are you doing the height sensing?
[13:23:09] <BigJohnT> manual at the moment
[13:23:14] <robin_sz> manual?
[13:23:38] <robin_sz> you mean just set it and hope its close?
[13:23:43] <BigJohnT> for now
[13:23:56] <BigJohnT> one step at a time
[13:24:04] <robin_sz> yep
[13:24:13] <robin_sz> its OK for single, small parts
[13:24:19] <robin_sz> no use at all on a sheet
[13:24:33] <BigJohnT> I won't be cutting big things or whole sheets until I get a THC
[13:24:50] <cyborg_ar> can i edit the current program in Axis?
[13:24:53] <robin_sz> I think there is a THC already set up for EMC
[13:25:05] <BigJohnT> really?
[13:25:09] <robin_sz> ISTR it just needs an analogue voltage in
[13:25:20] <BigJohnT> sweet
[13:25:22] <robin_sz> I remeber seeing a layout for it
[13:25:27] <BigJohnT> where?
[13:25:47] <robin_sz> of course getting the analogue voltage is fun, but if yu have the cnc kit on the powermax, it should provide it
[13:26:11] <robin_sz> someone did it .. no clue ... was about a year ago, all the blocks configures in HAL
[13:26:14] <BigJohnT> the powermax has arc voltage output as well as arc stable output
[13:26:19] <robin_sz> right
[13:26:23] <robin_sz> home and dry
[13:26:38] <robin_sz> does it have tip touch detection too?
[13:26:50] <robin_sz> so you can sense sheet position?
[13:26:51] <BigJohnT> not that I know
[13:27:02] <cyborg_ar> fucking axis! i just cat edit the program here
[13:27:09] <cyborg_ar> :(
[13:27:13] <BigJohnT> no
[13:27:21] <robin_sz> swearing is unlikely to win you any friends
[13:27:36] <BigJohnT> what are you trying to do cyborg
[13:27:44] <BigJohnT> yep
[13:27:54] <maddash> to whoever wrote motion.c: thank you for the comments.
[13:28:01] <cyborg_ar> edit the program i loaded
[13:28:22] <cyborg_ar> but axis doesn't allow editing
[13:28:34] <robin_sz> indeed so
[13:28:34] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/gui_axis.html#r1_11_5
[13:28:36] <BigJohnT> you can add a pyvcp to it
[13:28:42] <cradek> file/edit
[13:29:45] <cradek> oh, there's our friendly neighborhood jepler, who is not a bot, with a link to the relevant part of the documentation
[13:29:48] <cyborg_ar> there is not file>edit :(
[13:30:00] <robin_sz> its amazing what you find when you read the documentation :))))
[13:30:11] <robin_sz> read the link
[13:30:25] <cyborg_ar> i have to define an envinonmental variable?
[13:30:31] <cyborg_ar> or in the ini
[13:30:35] <maddash> cyborg_ar: no, ini.
[13:31:03] <cradek> notice this is the documentation for version 2.2.
[13:31:08] <cyborg_ar> mother fucker examples, the ubuntu live has no integration
[13:31:22] <BigJohnT> Ok, off to work for me
[13:31:32] <BigJohnT> thanks robin_sz
[13:31:36] <robin_sz> cyborg_ar: welcome to my /ignore list
[13:31:56] <cradek> I'm off too
[13:32:08] <cradek> way to ask for help with free software
[13:32:08] <robin_sz> compliments of the season to you chris
[13:32:14] <cradek> thanks robin_sz, you too
[13:32:14] <maddash> cyborg_ar: calm down and explain yourself, these guys are usually quite helpful
[13:32:41] <cyborg_ar> sorry
[13:32:57] <maddash> * maddash lost his pear tree
[13:33:18] <robin_sz> did it have a partridge in it?
[13:33:20] <cyborg_ar> * cyborg_ar calms down an read the documentation as a good kid
[13:33:59] <BigJohnT> jepler: that was easy
[13:34:03] <maddash> robin_sz: I lost it while waiting for the patridge
[13:34:08] <robin_sz> dang
[13:34:23] <maddash> robin_sz: will you sit on my pear tree? heheh.
[13:34:47] <robin_sz> hell no, not after what happened to the partridge ...
[13:34:51] <robin_sz> got shot i hear :)
[13:36:46] <maddash> crrap, where's my charger?
[13:41:16] <gezr> back
[13:41:28] <gezr> so you guys are all running off to work now eh?
[13:49:26] <maddash> haha, I think it's possible to move my Z-axis using stepgen even though [TRAJ]AXES=2!=3
[13:50:59] <cyborg_ar> :(
[14:00:44] <cyborg_ar> mmm
[14:00:49] <cyborg_ar> strange
[14:01:18] <cyborg_ar> i've set the variable, but the menu item still not appearing
[14:02:28] <cyborg_ar> me and my horrible english
[14:30:43] <maddash_> ehm, i've still got 2.1.5 installed in /usr/[don't know where]; how do i get rid of it so that I can plug in 2.2?
[14:31:52] <cyborg_ar> your package manager?
[14:32:32] <maddash_> maddash_ is now known as maddash
[14:36:06] <maddash> cyborg_ar: no
[14:36:15] <cyborg_ar> mmm
[14:36:33] <cyborg_ar> how do you installed it?
[14:37:17] <maddash> make install
[14:38:05] <cyborg_ar> look in the makefile where the files where sent
[14:38:12] <cyborg_ar> were*
[14:38:45] <maddash> that's a last-ditch resort
[14:40:00] <cyborg_ar> but is effective
[14:40:16] <maddash> no, it's not, which is why it's "last-ditch"
[14:41:50] <anonimasu> hello
[14:42:43] <cyborg_ar> hello anonimasu
[14:46:13] <anonimasu> what's up?
[14:46:22] <cyborg_ar> maddash: http://lugna.pastey.net/79645
[14:46:35] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl
[14:46:40] <cradek> see the first few links about upgrading
[14:47:49] <acemi> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Uninstalling_EMC2_from_source
[14:48:18] <maddash> bah, seen both wiki links
[14:48:51] <maddash> I used checkinstall to create a "hit-list" of all files installed
[14:52:35] <maddash> moihaha
[15:00:15] <jepler> just like AXIS does not aspire to contain a shitty text editor, the emc build system doesn't aspire to include a shitty package management system.
[15:00:56] <jepler> either use RIP or use the one for your distro -- patches happily accepted to support other package management systems and other dpkg-based distros.
[15:01:25] <maddash> sweeeeeeeeet.
[15:01:28] <jepler> </mho>
[15:01:56] <gezr> the last 10 lines completly confused me
[15:02:05] <maddash> jepler: please, 'make uninstall' is hardly a 'package management system'
[15:02:12] <cradek> there are plenty of shitty text editors and package management systems to choose from already, why write more? :-)
[15:02:15] <maddash> jepler: but a lack of one implies sloppiness
[15:02:24] <anonimasu> jepler: I wouldnt mind to have a online programming thingie :p
[15:02:37] <anonimasu> that you could use via softkeys.
[15:02:37] <anonimasu> :p
[15:02:41] <anonimasu> or real keys.
[15:02:51] <robin_sz> hey anon
[15:02:57] <anonimasu> hey robin
[15:03:02] <gezr> what, in the heck are you guys talking about vim is uber
[15:03:13] <cradek> maddash: make uninstall is so shitty. it will delete things you modified, for instance. so the next thing is to fix make uninstall to keep track of what it installed ... leading to what jepler said
[15:03:19] <gezr> and if you really want to become a man of men, emacs
[15:03:22] <anonimasu> gezr: Yesh if you have a full alphanumeric keyboard..
[15:03:46] <jepler> also, "make uninstall" will inevitably not be maintained in lockstep with "make install", so it'll uninstall the wrong things anyway
[15:03:48] <maddash> cradek: right, so you'd rather force a PMS on the next guy who wants to upgrade, right?
[15:03:53] <robin_sz> so here I am ... looking at some VERY basic terminals we use around the shop ... RS422, 2 line LCD + 20 membrane keys, plus a barcode scanner ....
[15:04:18] <robin_sz> described by the mamufacturer as "low cost data entry" ... id like a few more
[15:04:26] <gezr> make is not a package management system
[15:04:31] <maddash> jepler: what else do you think the makefile guy's job is?
[15:04:32] <robin_sz> guess how much they mean by "low cost"?
[15:04:33] <cradek> robin_sz: I hate membrane keyboards!
[15:04:37] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[15:04:54] <gezr> dpkg and its package compiling methods are a package management system
[15:04:55] <jepler> robin_sz: 25k tops
[15:05:25] <cradek> * cradek would fear a 25k makefile writer
[15:05:47] <gezr> but make has never been and will never be a package manager its a compile initiator, given directives
[15:05:53] <maddash> gezr: right, and slackware users just LOVE the dpkg, right?
[15:06:14] <gezr> a good slackware user can get dpkg running properly
[15:06:42] <gezr> slackware technically doesnt have a package system either, its a build distro
[15:07:00] <gezr> see linux from scratch as an example
[15:07:01] <cradek> neither does minix
[15:08:15] <gezr> when your compiling, your accually custom building software, when your using a package manager, your just installing a pre compiled package, and that is specific to a version
[15:08:19] <cyborg_ar> * cyborg_ar cant make axis call the editor, so he opens the program manually and uses axis' reload ability
[15:08:35] <gezr> cyborg_ar thats the way most do it i believe
[15:08:49] <cradek> cyborg_ar: maybe you are not running emc 2.2.
[15:08:56] <cyborg_ar> maybe
[15:09:03] <cradek> but, reload works great for that.
[15:09:07] <cyborg_ar> my live is oooold
[15:09:16] <maddash> gezr: do you do anything besides stating the obvious or wrong things?
[15:09:19] <anonimasu> how hard is it to get sim running on a normal ubuntu install?=
[15:09:36] <cradek> anonimasu: easy, see the wiki for instructions
[15:09:43] <cyborg_ar> define normal
[15:09:52] <gezr> maddash im not sure ive been around too long to know anything anymore
[15:09:54] <cradek> non-realtime I assume
[15:09:55] <anonimasu> standard installation.
[15:09:57] <anonimasu> yeah
[15:09:58] <maddash> cyborg_ar: aren't you on a multitasking OS? can't you fire up axis and $EDITOR simultaneously? doesn'T AXIS reload nc files?
[15:10:43] <cyborg_ar> i do that
[15:11:10] <gezr> and besides, 90% of this is just a place to chat while im waking up or winding down from the day
[15:11:10] <anonimasu> it works really nice on a machine where you can have the keyboard hanging around
[15:11:34] <maddash> gezr: sure, wind away.
[15:11:45] <gezr> so your a slackware user?
[15:11:47] <maddash> cyborg_ar: so what the heck are you complaining about?
[15:12:15] <gezr> I think he said earlier before you got on/up, was that he cant get axis to open the editor
[15:12:43] <maddash> that's not AXIS' job
[15:13:24] <gezr> I havent ran emc in forever so I dont know
[15:13:34] <maddash> axis's job is to read the (nc) iles, not write to them (unless 'file' is a tool table)
[15:13:40] <cradek> in EMC2.2, AXIS can spawn an external editor of your choice when you pick File/Edit
[15:13:50] <cyborg_ar> and i think that *WOULD* be nice if i can debug the program
[15:14:16] <cradek> so let's not argue about whether that feature should exist; it didn't in earlier versions, it does now
[15:14:30] <cradek> if cyborg_ar wants that and he's not running 2.2, the way to fix it is obvious
[15:14:47] <maddash> cradek: yes, but his is "really ooooooooold," so he should either stop complaining about a previously unsupported feature, or grab the new one
[15:14:57] <cradek> sure thing
[15:15:11] <cradek> there are lots of other reasons to update too.
[15:15:40] <cradek> **lots** : http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Released
[15:15:51] <cyborg_ar> * cyborg_ar starts downloading the 2.2 live
[15:16:12] <cradek> cyborg_ar: that's the wrong way to update. see the wiki pages I linked to earlier
[15:16:15] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.2
[15:17:19] <gezr> I still dont have a solution to my drive issues :(
[15:17:24] <cyborg_ar> i do not have emc2 installed
[15:17:44] <cyborg_ar> i use the live and a pendrive for the configs
[15:22:55] <maddash> gezr: no, a LARGE one.
[15:23:11] <maddash> the BOSS1 kind
[15:24:04] <gezr> ah nice
[15:24:05] <Unit41> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMqLFNdHLcI
[15:26:02] <cradek> cyborg_ar: oh, ok
[15:29:06] <maddash> sweeeeeet. 1Gbp + distcc = emc2.2 in < 2 min
[15:30:29] <cyborg_ar> if my plotter works as expected, my school will use emc2 to control an old good cnc lathe
[15:31:01] <maddash> crap. "/usr/lib/gcc/i486-linux-gnu/4.1.2/../../../../include/c++/4.1.2/i486-linux-gnu/bits/gthr-default.h:103: error: weakref 'int __gthrw_pthread_mutexattr_destroy(pthread_mutexattr_t*)' must have static linkage"
[15:31:18] <cyborg_ar> uhm
[15:31:24] <cradek> yarggh
[15:31:44] <maddash> holdon, lemme kill off the distcc
[15:32:30] <cyborg_ar> distcc, aply directly to the forehead ;)
[15:35:06] <maddash> ...distcc problem
[15:35:13] <maddash> argh
[15:37:12] <cyborg_ar> distributed computing
[15:37:25] <cyborg_ar> the future.....
[16:16:11] <maddash> wtf? emc_nml.h?
[16:16:52] <maddash> is there a log cataloguing the changes from pre-2.1.5 to 2.2?
[16:18:06] <jmkasunich> debian/changelog
[16:19:02] <cradek> also the FIRST link on the wiki
[16:19:11] <cradek> ... that I also pasted earlier
[16:19:16] <maddash> holy crap, there's a debian/ inside emc2/
[16:19:24] <jmkasunich> duh
[16:19:26] <maddash> great, I can dpkg-buildpackage
[16:20:05] <jmkasunich> how do you think our packages got built in the first place?
[16:20:42] <maddash> cradek: your wiki link mentions nothing about emc_nml.hh
[16:20:57] <maddash> jmkasunich: magic. checkinstall. proprietary debian/.
[16:21:49] <maddash> what the heck is going on inside emc2/include/?? now I have to include nml_oi.hh, too
[16:21:52] <cradek> maddash: I don't understand your question. the changelog does not mention every *file* that's changed
[16:22:14] <maddash> cradek: so, what does, then?
[16:22:21] <cradek> what does what?
[16:22:34] <jmkasunich> identifies every changed file?
[16:22:42] <cradek> our public cvs has all those records
[16:22:45] <maddash> cradek: I don't want to blunder through a simple "make" by having to grep through include/ everytime I get an error
[16:23:19] <jmkasunich> maddash: make seems to work quite well for the rest of us
[16:23:24] <cradek> I don't know what you're doing, or what trouble you're having, or whether you're asking for help
[16:25:39] <maddash> I'm getting massive errors about NML_ERROR and the likes not being "declared in this scope" that were never there when I was compiling against pre-2.1.5. I can fix this (by including nml_oi, which wasn't in 2.1.5), but I want to avoid these errors in the future by having a list of API changes. is that too much to ask?
[16:26:10] <maddash> jmkasunich: no, duh. the "rest of you" are constantly keeping up-to-date with emc2.
[16:26:41] <cradek> are you building code that we don't have, or are these errors in the basic emc2 build?
[16:26:43] <jmkasunich> "compiled against" ?
[16:26:51] <jmkasunich> are you building your own private code?
[16:27:48] <maddash> yes, a simple userspace program to read pins and sniff NML messages
[16:28:20] <jmkasunich> why didn't you say so
[16:28:35] <cradek> sounds like you're on the right track to figuring it out, hope you get it soon
[16:29:24] <maddash> see, jepler's "indirect header inclusion reduction" comments on http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/xemc.cc help, but which headers are being reducted?
[16:30:07] <maddash> seems like this header file overhaul happened in 2.2.1
[16:30:41] <jmkasunich> from the diff it looks like he's directly including three files that weren't before (which means they were probably being indirectly includede from some other header)
[16:33:17] <jmkasunich> your code is probably still relying on the indirect inclusion
[16:33:41] <maddash> jmkasunich: yes, via emc.hh (I just found out)
[16:36:17] <maddash> cool, linuxcnc.org/docs is cleaned up
[16:37:40] <maddash> now I feel bad for not having helped out
[16:40:19] <maddash> in parport's mode x, "setp parport.0.pin-01-out 1" ==> "parameter or pin 'parport.0.pin-01-out' not found"
[16:41:14] <maddash> has there been some massive change in mode x protocol?
[16:41:47] <maddash> jmkasunich: "parport 'x' mode should not export HAL '-out' pins for physical pins 1, 14, 16, and 17"
[16:41:59] <jmkasunich> I'm not very familiar with mode X
[16:42:19] <jmkasunich> but isn't that the mode that tristates the normally output control port to use them as inputs?
[16:42:30] <maddash> yes?
[16:42:41] <maddash> I don't really know
[16:42:58] <BigJohnT> Is there a torch height control built into EMC for the Z axis?
[16:43:00] <jmkasunich> well, if its using them as inputs, then there won't be any -out pins?
[16:43:17] <jmkasunich> BigJohnT: things like that aren't "built in"
[16:43:22] <maddash> back in pre-2.1.5, you told me to set parport's cfg="[addr] x", and to pull up the tristate pins (1,14,16,17) using "setp parport.0.pin-01-out 1"
[16:43:27] <jmkasunich> but they can be done using HAL and ladder
[16:43:35] <jmkasunich> and somebody did
[16:43:47] <jmkasunich> I think it might have been learnan hydra?
[16:43:58] <maddash> nope.
[16:44:09] <jmkasunich> maddash: its unlikely that I told you that
[16:44:30] <jmkasunich> like I said, I'm no mode x expert
[16:44:33] <maddash> this isn't helpful, and my battery's dead
[16:44:46] <BigJohnT> jmkasunich: can it be done with hal and classicladder using a voltage signal from the plasma?
[16:44:49] <jmkasunich> halcmd show is the best way to see what pins you have
[16:44:58] <jmkasunich> BigJohnT: I think so
[16:45:10] <jmkasunich> I know even less about plasma than I do about mode X
[16:45:15] <BigJohnT> LOL
[16:45:35] <maddash> isn't it ironic that you wrote the code to handle mode X?
[16:45:43] <BigJohnT> ok getting an analog signal into emc seems to be the thing I have not figured out
[16:45:44] <jmkasunich> jepler wrote mode X
[16:46:08] <jmkasunich> BigJohnT: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Torch_Height_Control
[16:46:21] <jmkasunich> (went to the wiki, searched for "torch height control")
[16:46:22] <jepler> maddash: at one point, there were both -in and -out HAL pins for the OC pins, and to actually use them as inputs it was necessary to set the -out pin to TRUE so that the pin was floating (or pulled up by an internal resistor) rather than held low by the OC driver
[16:46:36] <jmkasunich> now you know as much as I do about it (more, if you read that page)
[16:46:46] <jepler> maddash: later it was changed so that there is no corresponding HAL output pin and the pin is internally set to the TRUE state
[16:47:04] <BigJohnT> I read that a while back perhaps it will make more sense to me know LOL
[16:49:26] <BigJohnT> best to catch dallur in here to get some info from him I guess... The scary thing is this time it makes sense to me what he is doing...
[16:49:46] <maddash> jepler: useful.
[16:52:47] <maddash> libposemath. NEAT.
[17:07:44] <BigJohnT> any ideas on what hardware I could use to get an analog signal to EMC? DAC cards are $500...
[17:08:47] <cradek> you mean ADC
[17:08:59] <cradek> I think the motenc cards might be the only ones with ADC
[17:09:15] <cradek> SWPadnos is working on mesa-based ADC but I don't know if it's available yet
[17:09:22] <alex_joni> and SWPs boards that connect to m5i20
[17:09:29] <alex_joni> I think he has them ready / shipped
[17:09:35] <alex_joni> but they are around 800$ each :)
[17:09:39] <alex_joni> plus the m5i20
[17:10:13] <alex_joni> I think he has 16 AI/O on a board
[17:11:31] <BigJohnT> yea, if you just want one or two ADC lines you gotta get 8 or 16
[17:12:43] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: what speed do you need?
[17:12:58] <alex_joni> more than 1/2 samples / sec?
[17:13:06] <BigJohnT> just want to display the arc voltage in axis
[17:13:17] <Unit41> pff
[17:13:26] <alex_joni> if not, you could rig something up with a pwm generator, and an analog comparator
[17:13:35] <Unit41> and some sensors
[17:14:02] <alex_joni> or you could buy a cheapish microcontroller
[17:14:12] <BigJohnT> like a pic or something
[17:14:39] <BigJohnT> I've seen some circuits for pc voltmeters...
[17:14:41] <alex_joni> most have analog inputs, then write a simple serial component which reads the value, then writes it to HAL
[17:14:42] <Unit41> and some SoC's
[17:14:43] <cradek> get a panel voltmeter and put it next to the monitor?
[17:14:59] <alex_joni> I've seen people hijacking the joystick port for analog input
[17:15:06] <alex_joni> or a soundcard
[17:15:09] <jmkasunich> cradek: I think the long term plan is more than just display
[17:15:12] <alex_joni> but I never tried that
[17:15:19] <cradek> oh ok
[17:15:32] <alex_joni> THC in the end, but that works with external circuitry and with an up/down input to emc2
[17:15:44] <maddash> alex_joni: that's so cool
[17:15:53] <alex_joni> maddash: what is?
[17:15:57] <maddash> alex_joni: hijacking
[17:16:02] <alex_joni> :P
[17:16:04] <BigJohnT> so could THC be done in EMC?
[17:16:13] <Unit41> yes
[17:16:15] <BigJohnT> now that you brought it up
[17:16:21] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: THX is best done in a big box outside of emc
[17:16:26] <alex_joni> and it only tells emc up/down
[17:16:31] <alex_joni> the rest does emc :)
[17:16:46] <alex_joni> but you'd better talk to dallur about it :)
[17:16:53] <BigJohnT> ok
[17:17:07] <Unit41> those THC's just monitor the line voltage
[17:17:19] <BigJohnT> exactly
[17:17:33] <BigJohnT> arc voltage
[17:17:41] <maddash> haha, I hacked iocontrol to give pins for an external TRAJ-SET-SCALE control
[17:18:06] <cradek> maddash: halui already has that
[17:18:13] <alex_joni> maddash: I think halui would be a proper place to do that
[17:18:18] <maddash> :(
[17:18:35] <Unit41> build one with some hull effect sensors ?
[17:18:43] <maddash> but what if I only have 32 M of RAM and no room for halUI?
[17:18:44] <Unit41> hall
[17:19:15] <cradek> heh
[17:19:41] <cradek> what if my religion forbids me running programs with 'h' in the name?
[17:19:46] <maddash> cradek: isn't halui that python thing that attaches itself to axis?
[17:19:52] <cradek> oh sorry, inside thought
[17:20:00] <cradek> no, halui is not python and is not related to AXIS
[17:20:34] <maddash> * maddash feels so fucking silly now
[17:20:40] <maddash> too much hackery
[17:21:14] <Unit41> nonsense
[17:21:23] <cradek> you still gained knowledge doing it, that's not wasted
[17:21:49] <Unit41> mmm pumpkin pie
[17:23:23] <Unit41> I aint gotta provoke cause i eat till i sleeep
[17:23:29] <jepler> mmm pumpkin pie
[17:26:40] <Unit41> said m mmm mmm mmmm mm mmmm mm mmmm mmmm m mmm
[17:28:41] <Unit41> awe
[17:31:03] <Unit41> boxing day is really a fight for money and I just end up fatter
[17:31:44] <Unit41> deals allways taste better when its pie
[17:32:33] <maddash> where's the halui doc? there's nothing in hal-user-manual.pdf, and the wiki entry doesn't say whether to loadrt or loadusr halui
[17:32:50] <maddash> I assume that the halui configs belong inside the .hal
[17:33:55] <maddash> man1/halui.1
[17:39:04] <maddash> wow, hip hip hooray for the guy who came up with HAL
[17:45:50] <maddash> hm, is there anyway to combine 6 bits into one s32?
[17:45:59] <Unit41> horray for Jesus
[17:46:34] <cradek> I'm pretty sure jesus didn't help with hal
[17:46:48] <cradek> weighted_sum - convert a group of bits to an integer
[17:47:24] <maddash> ANOTHER hal comp?
[17:47:37] <cradek> of course
[17:49:47] <maddash> geez, so if I want a simple, responsive ext. feedoverride, i'd have to run two extra threads (halui+weightedsum)?
[17:51:49] <Unit41> EBAY YABE !!
[17:55:39] <jmkasunich> maddash: not extra threads
[17:55:44] <jmkasunich> (that would be horrible)(
[17:55:58] <jmkasunich> just add the functions to existing threads
[17:56:16] <jmkasunich> if the output of weightedsum is going to be used by code in the servo thread, then run weightedsum in the servo thread
[18:13:43] <Unit41> http://cgi.ebay.ca/Funny-Mr-Spock-Star-Trek-T-shirt-VAGINA_W0QQitemZ370005280501QQihZ024QQcategoryZ15687QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[18:22:15] <maddash> how does halui.feed-override.counts work?
[18:23:43] <jepler> it's intended to be hooked to something that counts up or down, like an encoder. Each click on the encoder increases or decreases feed override by an increment
[18:24:51] <maddash> but aren't incremental increases/decreases handled by feed-override.increase/.decrease?
[18:26:29] <jepler> that would be for a situation where you have a pair of buttons instead of an encoder
[18:27:17] <alex_joni> maddash: most of the HAL components are created with redundant pins to allow the most possible scenarios
[18:27:34] <alex_joni> that way users only use the pins they need.. which varies from user to user
[18:28:31] <maddash> .counts is different, right? here's the thing: i've allocated 10 inputs (pins 02 to 11) on my parport, where pin-x-in sets FO to {x-1}/10 -- can .counts handle this?
[18:29:43] <maddash> or do I have the wrong idea about .counts altogether? The halui.1 wasn't very clear about it
[18:29:51] <maddash> :(
[18:30:38] <jepler> halui is not set up for the scenario where you use a momentary button to select a specific feed override value. both 'counts' and 'increase'/'decrease' change the feed override by 'scale', rather than setting a specific value.
[18:31:06] <maddash> is it ok if I hack, "sendFeedOverride( *halui_data->fo_value + (counts - old_halui_data.fo_counts) *
[18:31:07] <maddash> *halui_data->fo_scale)"
[18:31:21] <alex_joni> you could have a mux10, which then sets 10 different counts
[18:31:23] <jepler> you don't need my permission to do that, if that's what you're asking
[18:31:44] <alex_joni> maddash: that why it's OSS .. you can hack away whatever you like..
[18:31:48] <maddash> yay.
[18:31:52] <alex_joni> (just don't blame us if it stops working)
[18:33:02] <maddash> alex_joni: 'mux10'? there's only mux2 and 4
[18:33:21] <alex_joni> 2 x mux4 + mux2 = mux10
[18:34:21] <alex_joni> maddash: the mux4 code is roughly 10-15 lines long.. I see no issues in writing a mux10 in under 5 minutes :D
[18:34:49] <jmkasunich> have I said lately how much single phase motors suck?
[18:35:12] <maddash> ew, mux is a .comp file
[18:35:15] <jepler> jmkasunich: can you strap three of them together (shaft to shaft) and get a three phase motor?
[18:35:38] <jmkasunich> no, they suck much too badly to be able to do that
[18:35:47] <jepler> oh well my ideas are not always very good
[18:35:49] <alex_joni> haha
[18:36:05] <jmkasunich> I belted my machine for the max spindle speed, and the inertia was high enough that I blew a 10A fuse on startup
[18:36:17] <alex_joni> jepler: but you can strap 2 together in opposite directions, and see which one is the stronger one
[18:36:39] <jmkasunich> thats a good way to let the magic smoke out of the start caps
[18:37:41] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich looks for a bigger fuse
[18:39:16] <jmkasunich> bah - biggest I have is one more 10A, then a few 4A
[18:39:25] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: got any nails?
[18:39:31] <alex_joni> * alex_joni snickers
[18:39:57] <alex_joni> I've actually seen that done ..
[18:40:01] <jmkasunich> I guess I'll change the belts back down to a lower speed
[18:40:04] <jmkasunich> I can believe it
[18:40:36] <alex_joni> and sometimes they used to blow :)
[18:42:08] <jmkasunich> ouch
[18:42:40] <jmkasunich> the fuse I just blew is 10mm dia - if I replaced that with a nail, I think it would hold
[18:45:38] <Unit41> thats it ?
[18:46:08] <Unit41> use tinfoil
[18:46:27] <Unit41> usually those things blow for a reason though
[18:46:35] <Unit41> kinda like their allmost protecting sth.
[18:47:57] <eric_U> my experiences with fuses is that they fail for no good reason. Then when something needs a fuse, it doesn't blow on time. I do like to have them to keep the house from catching on fire when the wiring heats up
[18:49:32] <alex_joni> wiring heats up?
[18:50:25] <maddash> funny things happen when GET_MOTION_COORD_FLAG() is commented out
[18:50:29] <maddash> haha.
[19:01:46] <jmkasunich> if you program an IJ arc with X and Y unchanged will you get a full circle, or nothing?
[19:06:55] <jepler> jmkasunich: you have to program one of X or Y for an XY arc, but if the end point and start point are the same, a center-format arc gives 360 degrees
[19:07:03] <jmkasunich> thanks
[19:07:19] <jmkasunich> (I figured it out by programming it and looking at the preview, but thanks anyway)
[19:07:24] <jepler> cradek has talked about lifting the requirement to specify any axis position for a center-format arc but I don't think he's actually changed the interpreter
[19:07:44] <jmkasunich> he hasn't - with no x or y I got an error
[19:19:31] <maddash> changed [traj]axes to 2 in stepper_inch.ini, commented out references to axis.2.* in *.hal, and then I get, "emcTrajSetAxes failing: axes=2 axismask=7"
[19:19:56] <alex_joni> check the coordinate names
[19:20:03] <alex_joni> you probably still have X Y Z
[19:21:03] <maddash> that did it
[19:27:37] <maddash> has there been a change in the stringency for [traj]coordinates? shouldn't emc just ignore the extra information if len(coordinates) > len(axes)?
[19:30:29] <cradek> jmkasunich: I consider that full circle thing a bug, but I haven't fixed it, because it's a bit involved
[19:30:56] <jmkasunich> what is a bug? the "go all the way around" behavior, or the requirement that you specify at least one coord?
[19:31:12] <cradek> the requirement that you specify an X or Y word equal to the current X or Y setting
[19:31:20] <jmkasunich> ah
[19:31:20] <cradek> because that's how no other gcode works
[19:31:29] <cradek> (except the canned cycles on the BOSS)
[19:31:38] <cradek> it actually locks hard if you leave them off
[19:31:44] <jmkasunich> oops
[19:31:57] <cradek> G81 X0. Y0. Z1. F5.
[19:32:02] <cradek> oops I meant to go a little deeper
[19:32:05] <cradek> Z1.2
[19:32:10] <cradek> [bonk]
[19:32:28] <jmkasunich> I bet the reasoning was that with G1 or G0, if you forget a coord, it doesn't move, but with G2 if you forget a coord, it makes a cut
[19:32:55] <jmkasunich> anyway, I should remember that just cause I have a CNC doesn't mean I should CNC everything
[19:33:13] <cradek> I think the code/history shows that g2/g3 full circles were hacked in "later"
[19:33:25] <cradek> it was probably never quite thought through in the early interp design
[19:33:29] <jmkasunich> I just spent 30 mins programming and milling nice counterbores on a couple #8 SHCS screw holes
[19:33:45] <cradek> ha
[19:34:01] <jmkasunich> then I remembered that I'm pretty sure I have a #8 SHCS counterbore bit, which would have done it in 30 seconds on the drill press
[19:34:02] <cradek> #8 is smaller than .375 - did you use .25 and arcs?
[19:34:14] <cradek> sure but not to the *perfect* depth
[19:34:18] <jmkasunich> 3/16 end mill, helical
[19:34:39] <cradek> well now you have some gcode you can save for later
[19:34:44] <jmkasunich> heh, actually I think I went deeper than needed, but at least they're both the exact same amount of deeper than needed
[19:34:57] <cradek> I'm trying to build those things up - some things I write over and over
[19:35:19] <jmkasunich> not worth saving in this case - I was making non-standard (shallow) cbores anyway
[19:35:27] <jmkasunich> and the program had both holes
[19:35:56] <jmkasunich> I'm making a limit switch mounting bracket
[19:36:09] <jmkasunich> if only I could drill the machine body as accurately as I drilled the bracket
[19:36:16] <jmkasunich> "machine, drill theyself"
[19:36:40] <cradek> heh, sometimes that's possible
[19:36:43] <BigJohnT> got spotting punches?
[19:36:46] <jmkasunich> not this time
[19:36:56] <jmkasunich> its not even remotely near the machine travel envelope
[19:37:13] <jmkasunich> BigJohnT: nah
[19:37:16] <jmkasunich> its only two holes
[19:37:17] <BigJohnT> darn
[19:37:32] <jmkasunich> I'll drill and tap one, screw the bracket on, and spot the other hole
[19:37:51] <BigJohnT> that's what I do
[19:39:36] <cradek> I'm usually foolish/bold and transfer punch both at once
[19:40:08] <cradek> good transfer punches are nice - one of those simple ideas that makes things work well
[19:41:04] <BigJohnT> I got a cheap set from somewhere they are really handy
[19:51:10] <JymmmEMC> automatic center punch FTW =)
[19:51:43] <cradek> not without transfer punch first - no way to get the punch in the center of the hole
[19:52:02] <JymmmEMC> that small of a hole?
[19:52:45] <JymmmEMC> Fine... make with 0.5mm pencil, then cneter punch, drill, tap
[19:52:48] <JymmmEMC> mark
[19:53:02] <cradek> I think it's easy to get a hole that size too far off to work right, but that may be my own special talent :-)
[19:53:35] <JymmmEMC> cradek: you have that "talent" too huh
[19:54:06] <cradek> I like the thru-hole on the part to be pretty tight
[19:55:12] <JymmmEMC> Meant to ask... what's a typical hourly rate for basic cnc work?
[19:55:15] <cradek> I was a little sad to have to mill .125 slots for the 4-40 screws for my limit switches
[19:55:33] <cradek> pretty sloppy...
[19:55:42] <JymmmEMC> to countersink them?
[19:56:04] <JymmmEMC> or make them adjustable?
[19:56:12] <cradek> no the slots: http://timeguy.com
[19:56:18] <cradek> yeah adjustable
[19:56:34] <JymmmEMC> you have those micro bits, why not use them?
[19:56:49] <cradek> 1/4 deep...
[19:57:01] <JymmmEMC> ah
[19:57:02] <cradek> 1/8 already seemed pretty small
[19:57:10] <cradek> but it went fine
[19:57:13] <JymmmEMC> blame the tooling mfg for that
[19:57:21] <cradek> I had not used a tool that small yet
[19:57:36] <cradek> (the spindle really isn't fast enough)
[19:58:03] <JymmmEMC> I'm just VERY lucky that some of the 1/2" long tooling is really 5/8"
[20:00:45] <JymmmEMC> I'd like to get some 1/16" tooling, but can't find in the lengths I need.
[20:01:08] <JymmmEMC> Well, unless I special order it and have it made for me that is.
[20:01:33] <cradek> tools longer than about 4*dia get expensive (and very fragile)
[20:01:43] <JymmmEMC> Which really isn't THAT expensive, but I just dont need that many.
[20:01:54] <cradek> what do you need?
[20:02:02] <cradek> 1/16 by how long?
[20:02:31] <JymmmEMC> Oh, I understand, sometimes it's just to have clearance to not gouge into the top of the material is all.
[20:03:03] <JymmmEMC> 3/8" sometimes 1/2"
[20:03:33] <cradek> that doesn't sound too bad
[20:04:12] <JymmmEMC> Yeah, just go slow enough with it to not break or flex it too much
[20:04:54] <JymmmEMC> Is $60/hr for basic cnc work "reasonable"?
[20:05:28] <cradek> hm you're right, those aren't very available
[20:05:38] <cradek> enco only has up to 3/16 lenth of cut
[20:06:13] <skunkworks> 60 seems low.. But I am a greedy american..
[20:06:15] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: what's basic cnc work?
[20:06:17] <JymmmEMC> cradek: I can get like 4 or 5 pieces for like $300 custom made. Just dont need that many of them right now.
[20:06:34] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: Let's say signage.
[20:06:38] <cradek> you can't reengineer your part to not need that?
[20:07:05] <JymmmEMC> cradek: Oh I could, but esthetically looks better.
[20:07:36] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: I don't think it's too much.. this is including material & such?
[20:07:48] <cradek> seems like people would expect to pay by the sign, not the hour
[20:08:15] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: Ususally yes, though it's the finishing work that's really time & labor intensive
[20:08:17] <cradek> making them fast benefits you then, instead of harming you
[20:09:15] <JymmmEMC> cradek: These are custom designed signs, not half-prepped ones.
[20:09:54] <JymmmEMC> If I had a laser, then the prep/finish work wouldn't be so bad.
[20:10:36] <fenn> $10 transfer punches http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=3577
[20:11:39] <BigJohnT> that's the ones I got
[20:12:11] <BigJohnT> had them for years you just don't hit them hard
[20:12:33] <fenn> usually though for fiddly stuff i can't get on a drill press in the first place, i use a set of drill bits with weird points on the end
[20:12:34] <cradek> funny: up to 1/2 (oh and we just found some 17/32, we'll put one of those in too)
[20:13:04] <BigJohnT> my rule of thumb is to place my hand between the object to be struck and the striking object so I can better judge the striking force...
[20:13:30] <cradek> I do that when pounding nails too - I like to use my left thumb
[20:13:37] <skunkworks> clear hole for 1/2 inch bolt
[20:13:38] <BigJohnT> LOL
[20:14:16] <BigJohnT> JymmmEMC: that's close to what we charge and we live out in the boondocks
[20:14:47] <JymmmEMC> Sometimes it's hard to quote out jobs. Of course I want a bazillion dollars for my work, but I dont want to give it away for cost either. Just havn't found a good way to quote out jobs is all. Machine run-time itself I don't think is a good estimate and doens't include material costs nor prep-finish work.
[20:14:51] <cradek> auto mechanics can charge $60-$100/hr here ($100 at a dealership only)
[20:14:55] <BigJohnT> that is for building machines
[20:15:11] <cradek> can't go wrong by looking around your area at other professions that require skill + equipment
[20:15:31] <cradek> (CA and NE may be very different)
[20:15:44] <JymmmEMC> cradek: I don't think I can use market, as there isn't much of a market in my area for the things I do (most artistic in nature)
[20:16:05] <JymmmEMC> I've never seen what I do anywhere just yet.
[20:16:17] <cradek> art sells for whatever someone is willing to pay - that's not at all like hourly contract work
[20:16:21] <fenn> then you can charge more
[20:16:25] <cradek> I agree it's hard to know what to charge
[20:16:38] <fenn> since nobody else does it
[20:17:45] <JymmmEMC> I've charged $65 for a small 8x6" sign due to the prep/finish work involved, and like $35 for a smaller sign that has less finish work. I really hate doing prep/finish work
[20:18:09] <cradek> here's the formula I learned when fixing watches: if you're buried in work, charge more. if nobody calls, charge less
[20:18:18] <JymmmEMC> lol
[20:18:25] <cradek> no I'm 100% serious
[20:18:43] <cradek> some of my competition had a year's backlog of work
[20:18:45] <BigJohnT> what kind of prep/finish work is it
[20:18:54] <skunkworks> I charge $60 for computer side work around here and that is cheap.. It is so easy that I feel bad charging more :) (unless they are friends then we usually trade favors)
[20:19:04] <cradek> they obviously didn't know this simple formula
[20:19:21] <JymmmEMC> Most of the time, when I try to get details from ppl about what they want, they say "just do whatever you feel is right", so now I spend MORE time in the design making it what I think would look good, and they all love it.
[20:19:45] <eric_U> there was some guy that would trade computer work for sexual favors
[20:19:50] <JymmmEMC> no complaints and still love it years later.
[20:20:01] <skunkworks> that only works with the wife..
[20:20:37] <fenn> eric_U: "some guy" eh
[20:20:46] <cradek> eric_U: I've actually seen ads for that on craigslist
[20:20:51] <skunkworks> heh
[20:21:14] <JymmmEMC> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/bar?query=massage&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max
[20:22:17] <JymmmEMC> here ya go.... http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bar/518237922.html
[20:22:46] <eric_U> I've traded work for massages, a friends wife does massages for a living.
[20:22:52] <cradek> REply with pics and details please
[20:22:53] <cradek> Women ONLY please
[20:22:56] <cradek> haha
[20:23:05] <alessandro> hello, i'm new to emc, i use varicad to generate a dxf file and i dont know how to convert it in gcode; emc is also a cam software and can convert a dxf to gcode?
[20:23:09] <cradek> "low IQ a plus"
[20:23:27] <cradek> no, emc is not also cam software, only a machine controller
[20:23:27] <JymmmEMC> cradek: Low IQ ---> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bar/520621422.html
[20:23:31] <JymmmEMC> 420 lol
[20:23:46] <eric_U> allesandro: emc doesn't do the converstion
[20:24:03] <alessandro> any cam software for linux?
[20:24:12] <fenn> alessandro: you can run ACE converter in wine
[20:24:16] <skunkworks> alessandro: do a search for 'ace converter' (simple 2d dxf-gcode converter) (free but windows)
[20:24:34] <skunkworks> what fenn said :)
[20:24:43] <alessandro> fenn, skunkworks: thanks :)
[20:24:50] <alessandro> only 2d?
[20:25:14] <eric_U> isn't dxf only 2d?
[20:25:24] <alessandro> no
[20:25:44] <alessandro> with varicad i make 3d model and save it in dxf format
[20:25:54] <fenn> if you're doing 3d dxf, probably easier to export to stl or use a dxf to stl converter
[20:26:12] <fenn> 3d cam is a long way off
[20:26:14] <alessandro> and emc can manage stl format?
[20:26:17] <fenn> no
[20:26:35] <fenn> if you arent doing this every day, you can try to use the web-application at freesteel.co.uk
[20:27:20] <fenn> but really, 3d cam software is expensive, rare, and usually crappy
[20:27:33] <eric_U> cradek: does your bridgeport have an air-assisted knee?
[20:27:43] <cradek> no unfortunately it's just a crank
[20:27:50] <cradek> it's quite heavy
[20:27:56] <eric_U> is it a series 1?
[20:28:00] <cradek> yes
[20:28:05] <eric_U> you have the same head as my series II
[20:28:19] <cradek> yes they were the same except the tables I think
[20:28:41] <cradek> your knee is air assisted?
[20:28:46] <fenn> alessandro: if you can figure out how to use it... http://www.users.qwest.net/~kmaxon/page/side/mill5_137.htm
[20:28:49] <eric_U> yeah, but I get no assist
[20:28:57] <cradek> I bet it's VERY heavy then :-)
[20:29:13] <eric_U> it's an incredible amount of work
[20:29:32] <cradek> I'm not surprised to hear that
[20:29:37] <eric_U> and the handle from a series 1 is just a little different
[20:29:42] <eric_U> it works, but not very well
[20:30:59] <eric_U> I'd like to put a motor on it, I'm thinking about putting air cylinders on it
[20:31:03] <cradek> you know to unlock the knee, right?
[20:31:16] <cradek> both locks?
[20:31:50] <eric_U> they aren't even on there
[20:31:52] <alessandro> fenn: thanks but with 2d cam can i generate gcode for milling a piece like this http://www.infodelta.it/foto/FOTO-BON1.jpg ?
[20:31:58] <eric_U> it has square ways
[20:32:07] <cradek> oh it's totally different then
[20:32:30] <cradek> alessandro: do you have a 5 axis mill?
[20:33:19] <cradek> that part will take several setups otherwise (none of them very complicated)
[20:33:22] <alessandro> cradek: i have a opti bf 20 vario L with 3 axis
[20:33:42] <alessandro> i want to convert it to cnc
[20:34:04] <eric_U> fork parts?
[20:34:12] <alessandro> yes
[20:39:45] <jmkasunich> hey cradek: in your limit switch photo it looks like you have some 4-40 SHCS
[20:39:54] <jmkasunich> can you fax me a couple, all I have are flathead
[20:40:37] <cradek> sure, I have a nice assortment
[20:40:42] <cradek> can I just email them?
[20:40:54] <jmkasunich> no, my printer is broken
[20:41:33] <jmkasunich> guess I'll just use the flathead ones
[20:41:48] <cradek> I actually could put some in an envelope...
[20:41:57] <jmkasunich> thats on
[20:41:59] <jmkasunich> ok
[20:42:06] <cradek> doesn't your local hardware store have them? mine does
[20:42:11] <cradek> down to 4-40
[20:42:20] <jmkasunich> I'll buy a box of 100 next time I order something from mcmaster
[20:42:40] <jmkasunich> I'm too lazy to go to the store (and don't want to pay their inflated prices for a couple screws)
[20:43:13] <cradek> I sure understand that
[20:44:17] <cradek> cool, I needed a bezel and crystal for an old starrett dial indicator (no longer made). I emailed them and they will sell it to me for ... $5
[20:44:37] <cradek> they're doing it right.
[20:45:14] <JymmmEMC> starret is selling a part for $5 ???
[20:45:34] <cradek> yes, a part for something no longer made
[20:45:43] <JymmmEMC> wow!
[20:45:50] <cradek> me too
[20:45:58] <JymmmEMC> usually it's 4x the price for discontinoued parts
[20:46:24] <cradek> I would expect to pay $5 for just the crystal
[20:46:28] <cradek> maybe $25 with bezel
[20:46:43] <JymmmEMC> BOTH for $5?!?!?!
[20:46:49] <cradek> yes
[20:47:08] <jmkasunich> thats why the indicator cost so much in the first place
[20:47:10] <JymmmEMC> damn... give em your cc before they change their minds!
[20:47:38] <cradek> jmkasunich: if I was the first owner, that would matter to me :-)
[20:48:17] <jmkasunich> I figured as much
[20:48:19] <cradek> I'm not sure I've ever bought anything starrett as new
[20:48:25] <jmkasunich> ditto
[20:48:29] <cradek> but I have a lot of used
[20:48:46] <jmkasunich> I have my dad's 40+ year old mics, small hole gages, and a some other things
[20:48:51] <jmkasunich> plus a few from ebay
[20:49:19] <jmkasunich> ISTR I called starrett and got new pouches for the small hole gages either for free, or for some nominal sum
[20:50:14] <cradek> I don't like their red pouches... they're cheapy
[20:50:25] <cradek> but the tools themselves are hard to beat
[20:51:12] <fenn> hmm can i buy starret parts if i dont own the tool they go in?
[20:51:23] <jmkasunich> you can try
[20:51:23] <cradek> surely so
[20:51:51] <cradek> for instance I got a new point (just the point) for my wiggler set
[20:51:51] <fenn> +t
[20:52:44] <jmkasunich> I think the low prices are part of an unofficial "lifetime guarantee" kind of thing
[20:52:58] <jmkasunich> "you buy it from us, we'll take care of it"
[20:53:15] <jmkasunich> if you don't actually own the tool, and they realise that, they won't appreciate you trying to get the parts cheap
[20:56:17] <cradek> are there many parts that would not be useful without the corresponding tool?
[21:02:04] <jmkasunich> hard to say what fenn has in mind
[21:02:20] <jmkasunich> silkpursing a sow's ear perhaps?
[21:02:39] <jmkasunich> replace a few critical parts on a chinese tool?
[21:10:56] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/table-home-switch-1815.jpg
[21:11:16] <jmkasunich> the switch will be covered by the same sheet metal guard that keeps crap off the belt
[21:11:34] <jmkasunich> the dowel pin pokes thru a hole to trigger the switch
[21:19:28] <alex_joni> hmm.. seems run-from-line doesn't work with G91
[21:19:37] <alex_joni> at least that's what a user reports..
[21:26:08] <ALS> has anyone ever tried using a stepper motor running a hydralic pump for axis motion?
[21:29:23] <cradek> not that I've heard of
[21:29:35] <ALS> just thinking of eric_u and cradek's knee mill weight
[21:29:54] <cradek> some old cnc machines used hydraulics but they ran a valve, not a pump
[21:30:21] <ALS> in a closed loop type there should be no backlash
[21:30:59] <cradek> jmkasunich: neat
[21:31:54] <ALS> one would need feedback though
[21:32:11] <cradek> looks like not much travel after the switch trips. you will have to go slow.
[21:35:06] <ALS> the pump would act as a gear reduction ratio
[21:40:05] <jmkasunich> my max V is 0.8 ips, and accel is 6 ips^2
[21:40:14] <jmkasunich> at max speed I will overshoot 0.053"
[21:40:38] <jmkasunich> at half speed the overshoot will be only 0.013
[21:42:10] <jmkasunich> there is about 0.040 from the switch trip point to the hard stop, so a home search vel of 0.4 ips will be fine
[21:42:44] <jmkasunich> the axis travel is about 11", so worst case home time is 25 seconds or so
[21:42:48] <jmkasunich> I can live with that
[21:44:02] <cradek> especially if you can do them all simultaneously
[21:44:49] <cradek> 0.8ips seems slow but it's plenty even for threading
[21:45:09] <cradek> a little more accel in Z might be nice if you want to thread right up to stuff
[21:45:10] <jmkasunich> I'll have more when I get the mesa running
[21:45:25] <cradek> oh it's pulse rate?
[21:45:39] <jmkasunich> I get 10 ips^2 on Z, same motor, same screw pitch, and more weight
[21:45:48] <cradek> those 10 usteps really hurt
[21:46:03] <jmkasunich> I think the Y handwheel inertia is the accel limit, and the handwheel will be coming off eventually
[21:49:20] <jmkasunich> the X handwheel is already off (it was lighter anyway)
[21:49:33] <jmkasunich> the Y one serves as a spacer though, so I have to make something to replace it
[22:27:53] <Gamma-X> hi all
[22:28:22] <fenn> yo, found an electrician yet?
[22:28:48] <Gamma-X> kinda but asked only about the 220 lines in my garage not machine
[22:28:56] <Gamma-X> i can email u that pdf now
[22:29:01] <Gamma-X> pm me again with ur info
[22:35:15] <fenn> hah. if i had enough money i'd be rich
[22:36:14] <fenn> one might think so, but it's not true
[22:37:19] <Gamma-X> lol
[22:38:52] <Unit41> chicks r for fags
[22:40:20] <Unit41> lol I just got plans for a poor mans co2 laser
[22:40:57] <Unit41> coherent electromagnetic waves have identical frequency and are aligned in phase
[22:44:11] <Unit41> time to scan it
[22:47:25] <Gamma-X> fenn what do u think
[22:48:38] <fenn> i think your email has been deferred for 45 mins as a greylisting measure
[22:49:10] <Gamma-X> wierd
[22:49:43] <fenn> yeah its pretty lame
[22:53:24] <laguille> hello every body
[22:54:11] <a-l-p-h-a> hi
[22:55:06] <laguille> i have a problem to upgrade emc2.0.5 to emc2.2.2 can you help me?
[22:55:35] <cradek> what problem?
[22:58:55] <laguille> i'm a newbee ... firstly i had emc2.0.5 from synaptic soft, the installation was automatic and emc2 run pretty well. but now i want to upgrade to version 2.2.2. I downloaded the .tar.gz file, unzip this file, .. and when i want to compile, with the commande ./configure terminal i have the following error:
[22:59:10] <cradek> don't do that. install the package instead
[22:59:15] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.2
[22:59:18] <alex_joni> laguille: why not upgrade using synaptic?
[22:59:28] <cradek> instructions here
[22:59:37] <laguille> checking for __sincos... no checking for tcl... tclConfig.sh not found, trying tcl.h and libs. If it doesn't work try running ./configure --with-tclConfig=<path to tclConfig.sh> checking tcl.h usability... no checking tcl.h presence... no checking for tcl.h... no checking for library containing Tcl_Init... no configure: error: tcl lib not found
[23:00:00] <cradek> oops I have to run
[23:00:05] <cradek> thanks for helping, alex
[23:00:22] <jmkasunich> laguille: did you read what cradek said?
[23:00:25] <laguille> with synaptic i only can get the version 2.0.5?
[23:00:29] <jmkasunich> wrong
[23:00:32] <jmkasunich> you can get 2.2
[23:00:38] <alex_joni> laguille: you need to read that link
[23:00:51] <alex_joni> (in synaptic you need to change the repository definition)
[23:01:15] <laguille> ok i will read but what can i o to chang the repository def?
[23:01:18] <alex_joni> it now reads emc2, but you need to change that to emc2.2 (in order to get the latest)
[23:01:37] <jmkasunich> what you have to do is spelled out on that page
[23:01:45] <jmkasunich> read it!
[23:02:22] <laguille> ok thanks i read and will see ... thank you very much
[23:02:54] <alex_joni> laguille: you could do it now, and ask if it's not clear
[23:04:42] <a-l-p-h-a> brb
[23:05:20] <laguille> ok i have read th links but. now i have the version 2.0.5 not installed. i have to reinstall first?
[23:05:30] <alex_joni> laguille: not really
[23:05:52] <fenn> wow these are some crazy schematics
[23:06:02] <alex_joni> you can change the repo to emc2.2, then install emc2
[23:06:08] <alex_joni> you'll get the latest one
[23:06:30] <laguille> ok a few moment i try...
[23:06:45] <anonimasu> hello
[23:07:15] <fenn> i especially like page 10: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/Crusader II Wiring Diagrams.PDF
[23:07:36] <fenn> oh i spose i'll fix the url http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/Crusader%20II%20Wiring%20Diagrams.PDF
[23:07:59] <alex_joni> fenn: chmod
[23:08:14] <laguille> i need to leave this connection in order to update emc2 on my second old pc.. see you in a few minutes
[23:08:22] <alex_joni> laguille: see you
[23:08:38] <fenn> fix'd
[23:09:02] <alex_joni> how big is it?
[23:09:16] <fenn> 5.3MB
[23:09:31] <alex_joni> well.. data dribling in at ~15kB now
[23:09:36] <alex_joni> kB/s
[23:09:39] <a-l-p-h-a> fenn, slow server. :(
[23:09:49] <fenn> wah
[23:09:54] <alex_joni> oh, I'm sure it's on my end
[23:10:11] <alex_joni> http://imagebin.org/12639
[23:10:22] <fenn> upload is like 100kB/s for all of you combined
[23:10:33] <alex_joni> (that's a very poor pic of the antenna connected to my cell )
[23:10:36] <a-l-p-h-a> I'm stealing 60
[23:10:37] <a-l-p-h-a> :D
[23:10:50] <fenn> um, a yagi on your cellphone?
[23:10:59] <alex_joni> actually datamodem.. not exactly cell
[23:11:08] <a-l-p-h-a> someone needs new pillows.
[23:11:09] <alex_joni> fenn: 9 dB yagi..
[23:11:15] <a-l-p-h-a> ;)
[23:11:21] <fenn> are those soda straws?
[23:11:23] <alex_joni> about 2ft long
[23:11:31] <a-l-p-h-a> alex_joni, fenn, how are you guys?
[23:11:33] <alex_joni> fenn: nope, it's a commercial antenna
[23:12:07] <alex_joni> fenn: seem aluminum to me..
[23:12:21] <fenn> a-l-p-h-a: i'm feeling brutish today, and just ate 5 star-crunch cookies
[23:12:21] <alex_joni> make that 3ft
[23:12:42] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek, what type of accuracy (repeatability) do you get with your limit/home switches?
[23:12:55] <renesis> i wanted to make a set
[23:12:58] <alex_joni> wonder if it's overkill to set up that antenna, together with bridging on my laptop and a wifi router
[23:13:06] <a-l-p-h-a> what's 5 star-crunch?
[23:13:06] <alex_joni> (for 2-3 laptops :)
[23:13:09] <lerneaen_hydra> oh crap he's gone
[23:13:16] <renesis> something with levers and springs so it couldnt break the switch
[23:13:41] <fenn> alex_joni: would it be overkill to set up a wireless mesh network between your three laptops?
[23:13:57] <renesis> get increased accuracy cuz of the lever radius ratio
[23:14:14] <alex_joni> fenn: all 3 running doze.. I guess so
[23:14:22] <fenn> hm. that's hard then
[23:14:50] <alex_joni> this setup took me about 4-5 minutes
[23:15:14] <fenn> i was excited about bridging wireless thru a crossover cable to my netier test-bed
[23:17:11] <fenn> renesis / lerneaen_hydra, i think jmk's switch is better.. maybe it could be floating and preloaded with a spring for crashes
[23:17:11] <alex_joni> fenn: ewwww..
[23:17:19] <alex_joni> (talking about the schem.)
[23:17:36] <lerneaen_hydra> fenn, what's jmk's switch?
[23:17:47] <fenn> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/table-home-switch-1815.jpg
[23:18:39] <anonimasu> oh..
[23:18:45] <anonimasu> that's a bad arrangement
[23:18:51] <fenn> bad why?
[23:19:03] <alex_joni> why?
[23:19:08] <lerneaen_hydra> I can't say I'm much of a fan of those switches cradek has used as limit switches, the probable irregularity as well as susceptibility to chips and machining fluid doesn't make them very desireable in my eyes
[23:19:15] <anonimasu> having your motion go < against a switch isnt really a nice thing
[23:19:20] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, hmm
[23:19:29] <anonimasu> does the machine have a hard stop if you overtravel?
[23:19:35] <alex_joni> anonimasu: motion is limited by table.. so it can't overtravel
[23:19:39] <lerneaen_hydra> those switches also seem to be of a similar design
[23:19:43] <alex_joni> I mean it won't damage the switch
[23:19:51] <lerneaen_hydra> am I the only person to use reed switches?
[23:20:13] <lerneaen_hydra> they're hermetically sealed, magnetically actuated
[23:20:18] <lerneaen_hydra> and cheaper than normal switches
[23:20:21] <fenn> you could use the switch-tripper as the hard stop if it were thicker, machined down to a pin
[23:20:29] <anonimasu> -_-
[23:20:35] <anonimasu> im going to use inductive sensors..
[23:20:42] <fenn> ok
[23:20:50] <alex_joni> those are also cheaper than regular switches
[23:20:56] <anonimasu> not the ones I'll be using
[23:20:59] <alex_joni> (at least comparing industrial grade)
[23:21:08] <anonimasu> there are some with very high repeatability.. that baumerelectric makse
[23:21:09] <anonimasu> makes..
[23:21:23] <alex_joni> I'm not talking cheap / plaastic enclosed switches..
[23:21:25] <anonimasu> but I need to see how much I need to home repeatably
[23:21:30] <fenn> lerneaen_hydra: what about when your magnet gets covered with chips?
[23:21:30] <anonimasu> ah yeah..
[23:21:45] <alex_joni> imo, it's only half the solution
[23:21:53] <alex_joni> the other half is using index pulse
[23:21:54] <lerneaen_hydra> fenn, hmm, true, I don't do much work in ferromagnetic stuff
[23:22:01] <lerneaen_hydra> mostly wood, alu, plastic
[23:22:07] <gezr> so emc uses the index pulse?
[23:22:12] <alex_joni> gezr: can
[23:22:19] <alex_joni> gezr: depends how you set it up
[23:22:25] <lerneaen_hydra> chips getting stuck on the magnet may be a problem
[23:22:26] <anonimasu> did homing get fixed with the USC?
[23:22:38] <alex_joni> anonimasu: didn't hear otherwise
[23:22:47] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I just saw some old posts about it
[23:22:55] <alex_joni> gezr: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/2.2/html//config_ini_homing.html
[23:23:00] <anonimasu> like really old :)
[23:23:23] <alex_joni> anonimasu: might be :)
[23:23:36] <anonimasu> might be what?
[23:24:05] <gezr> yeah, there is a setting for the index pulse seek
[23:24:45] <anonimasu> im wiring my machine up
[23:25:02] <anonimasu> and I'm going to wire up the USC feedback board I think :)
[23:26:18] <alex_joni> anonimasu: might be that is was borked a while ago
[23:26:24] <alex_joni> might be that it's fixed
[23:26:54] <anonimasu> hehe
[23:26:58] <anonimasu> probably
[23:27:25] <gezr> hmm, the home switch in the photo also acts as an overtravel switch?
[23:27:42] <alex_joni> gezr: yes, you can set it up that way
[23:27:53] <alex_joni> limit switch & home switch
[23:29:02] <fenn> i'm not sure what good a limit switch would do in that situation, since it can't turn off the motors, and the software should know better since it has been homed
[23:30:01] <fenn> why combine limit and home switch? rather than just have a home switch
[23:31:31] <Gamma-X> fenn hows it comin?
[23:32:32] <anonimasu> fenn: because if your machine has a runaway condition
[23:32:55] <alex_joni> fenn: people who take up that compromise, usually do so to save some inputs
[23:33:41] <alex_joni> on more expensive machines the limit switches turn off the motors I think :)
[23:34:14] <anonimasu> fenn: like if a linear scale breaks
[23:34:51] <Gamma-X> fenn any luck?
[23:39:46] <BigJohnT> Is the only communication between classicladder and EMC the inputs and outputs?
[23:41:37] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:42:05] <fenn> what i meant was, if you have a runaway condition, your limit switch can't do anything about it, because if it mechanically turned the motors off, you couldn't use it as a home switch
[23:42:06] <Gamma-X> hey BigJohnT want to see those schematics of the wiring?
[23:42:09] <BigJohnT> good night alex
[23:42:17] <anonimasu> fenn: ah yeah
[23:42:27] <anonimasu> fenn: if you use them that way
[23:42:28] <BigJohnT> yea gamma
[23:42:43] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT whats ur email
[23:42:57] <BigJohnT> is that a good thing to put out here?
[23:43:07] <Gamma-X> pm me
[23:47:35] <laguille> ok i have try to do the updating but i still have a problem but it seem better: the end of the error report is:RTAI[hal]: unmounted. Debug file information: insmod: error inserting '/usr/realtime-2.6.15-magma/modules/emc2/hal_parport.ko': -1 Device or resource busy max.hal:11: exit value: 1 max.hal:11: insmod failed, returned -1
[23:48:24] <laguille> rtai :'(
[23:48:46] <Gamma-X> i can use a vfd if I just keep it at full throttle and use the handwheel for spindle control correct?
[23:49:20] <anonimasu> eh?
[23:49:22] <BigJohnT> yep if full throttle is 60 cycles not 120 cyclees
[23:49:43] <BigJohnT> most vfd's will overdrive a motor
[23:50:03] <anonimasu> that's the great thing about them ^^
[23:50:08] <fenn> laguille: stop emc first
[23:50:26] <fenn> laguille: also try halrun -U
[23:51:04] <laguille> emc was not running? i try halrun -U
[23:51:50] <fenn> oh, -1 is just the generic error
[23:51:51] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT in requards to the vfd will it still operate the other equipment jsut fine?
[23:52:18] <BigJohnT> what other equipment?
[23:52:36] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT servos, coolant pump, oil pump. controller cards
[23:52:50] <fenn> laguille: type 'dmesg' and tell us the more specific error there
[23:52:57] <BigJohnT> yes
[23:53:35] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT all i havwe to do is run the vfd at full operate?
[23:54:02] <BigJohnT> well you run it at 60 cycles not full to run everything
[23:54:22] <BigJohnT> full might be 90 cycles or 120 cycles depends on the vfd
[23:54:22] <Gamma-X> is a 3hp vfd good enough to run a 3hp motor and also power the rest of the machine?
[23:54:27] <Gamma-X> ok
[23:54:33] <Gamma-X> how can u overdrive a motor?
[23:54:40] <BigJohnT> the rest of the machine draws almost nothing
[23:54:58] <fenn> Gamma-X / BigJohnT page 25 is the one to look at
[23:54:58] <BigJohnT> turn up the speed pot on the vfd
[23:55:03] <laguille> RTAI hal :unmunted
[23:55:16] <BigJohnT> page 25 of what?
[23:55:53] <fenn> ur, this http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/Crusader%20II%20Wiring%20Diagrams.PDF
[23:56:41] <BigJohnT> this will take a while... dialup
[23:56:55] <fenn> ah i can chop it up i think
[23:57:26] <BigJohnT> it's coming down the pipe but I'm also d/l some stuff from gamma
[23:57:46] <fenn> its the same thing
[23:57:54] <laguille> I-pipe: oma
[23:57:57] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT dont bother with what he sent u, its teh same thing im sending u lol
[23:58:13] <Gamma-X> fenn its teh same thing.
[23:58:28] <BigJohnT> I have a string out to the highway then it gets hooked to a wire that goes to town...
[23:58:45] <fenn> laguille: what?
[23:58:46] <laguille> AND also I-pipe: domain RTAI unregistered. ??
[23:59:03] <fenn> laguille: could you paste the full error?
[23:59:55] <laguille> Yes but i need time because i have this on my second pc and only 1 connection 5minutes ok?
[23:59:58] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT can i get buy with a 3hp vfd for a 3hp motor?