#emc | Logs for 2007-12-26

[00:00:23] <Skullworks_PGAB> they want your to learn the gospel of MasterCamX
[00:00:28] <anonimasu> heh
[00:00:32] <Gamma-X> x2!
[00:01:47] <Skullworks_PGAB> I have MC9 and the Learning CD set - never used it
[00:02:17] <Skullworks_PGAB> (another employee did)
[00:03:36] <Skullworks_PGAB> I still use my BobCAD v12 for DOS which is really fast for 2D drawning vrs the Windoz versions
[00:03:47] <gezr> so you guys use midnight commander to piddle with files?
[00:10:30] <acemi> jepler, you said that to use "hard memlock 20480" in your post. I tested EMC2 trunk with 2048 and it's OK. is this value 2048 or we need 20480 for same thing else
[00:10:43] <acemi> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/4116/focus=4145
[00:11:23] <jepler> acemi: I did not attempt to determine the minimum number that would work, I just picked a number and used it.
[00:11:43] <jepler> it is quite likely that it is larger than required
[00:12:04] <acemi> hmm, 2048 works for me and 1024 don't
[00:12:24] <jepler> because halscope, halsampler, and other optional components use additional (locked) shared memory segments, the same number won't work for everyone.
[00:12:36] <jepler> it depends on the hal components actually in use on any particular system
[00:12:46] <acemi> i see
[00:13:57] <jepler> also a user might be running other software that requests locked memory -- gpg (for security reasons -- avoid writing key information to the swap partition) and cdrecord (for performance reasons -- avoid the data to be written to cd/dvd next being swapped out) come to mind
[00:14:23] <jepler> (these programs may 'gracefully' degrade in the circumstance that the memory can't be locked, but as you know emc doesn't)
[00:19:04] <Gamma-X> im havin some trouble gettin a post from mastercam 9 to get into mastercam x. anyone?
[00:23:05] <cradek> Gamma-X: seems like that would be something they would support. have you called them?
[00:23:31] <Gamma-X> cradek nope
[00:24:05] <cradek> I'm well on my way to home switches on X,Y... that will be nice
[00:24:21] <cradek> I've devised a setup where two switches will give me all four limits (and home)
[00:31:22] <anonimasu> Gamma-X: wake up
[00:32:47] <dave_1> jepler: thanks
[00:32:58] <Gamma-X> cradek looks like im not gettin a vfd .... its a sad sad day
[00:33:03] <dave_1> gottta go now picking up people at the airport.
[00:36:16] <gezr> dumb question incomming, does the ubunto live come with samba?
[00:36:57] <Gamma-X> GOOGLE
[00:37:02] <Gamma-X> haha im jk... i have no idea
[00:37:14] <fsdafsd> he
[00:37:39] <Gamma-X> anyone know of videos showing setting up a mill?
[00:37:46] <gezr> i have preserved 4.7G of data, its time to back it up, and to do that, I need to get it to the win boxes
[00:37:53] <fsdafsd> tyes hold
[00:38:30] <Gamma-X> gezr u want or need?
[00:38:35] <Gamma-X> gezr u can jsut dd it
[00:44:28] <gezr> na, I had to move certian bits around
[00:44:43] <gezr> but its all done, cept for the getting on a windows box part
[00:45:08] <gezr> all my linux installs are fixed ip boxes, no dhcp at all, so i cant put them on the net either buahahahaha
[00:46:49] <Unit41> did you get that video site yet ?
[00:46:58] <Unit41> Gamma
[00:49:32] <Unit41> i seem to have lost it
[00:50:25] <Gamma-X> nope
[00:51:07] <Unit41> http://www.rotarywoofer.com/
[00:51:20] <Unit41> http://hackedgadgets.com/2007/02/08/induction-heatingmagical-non-contact-heat/#more-776
[00:51:30] <Unit41> https://www.llnl.gov/str/MPerry.html
[00:52:21] <Unit41> my next laser is going to be sun powerd
[00:53:23] <Gamma-X> Unit41 im lokin for a video on general milling lol. like how to set up stock etc. homing.
[00:54:26] <Unit41> do you know of a good construction video ?
[00:54:33] <Unit41> im kinda stuck for a z axis
[00:54:45] <gezr> how to make a Z axis?
[00:54:54] <Unit41> ya
[00:55:14] <Unit41> if I can get by with out a welder even better
[00:55:39] <Unit41> I have 100 z608 bearings
[00:55:45] <Unit41> and slides allready made
[00:55:55] <Unit41> angle alu slides
[00:56:07] <gezr> I have no idea on this end bro
[00:56:35] <Unit41> yeah I just need to be unlazy and drill some holes
[00:56:43] <Unit41> and weld
[00:56:50] <gezr> get after it then
[00:57:12] <Unit41> if I had a mig it would be alot easier
[00:58:01] <Unit41> tig would be even better
[00:58:07] <Unit41> then I could use alu flatstock
[00:59:14] <gezr> you know the last place I worked, I watched a guy, I swear you not, I watched him try this on 4 different occasions, he was trying to use a metal wire mig setup with metal wire, to weld aluminum, and couldnt figure out why it wouldnt work, on 2 of the occasions, he tried using brass rod and gas torch set up
[00:59:41] <gezr> after the mig bit wasnt working out for him
[01:00:26] <Unit41> some people are natural born welders :P
[01:01:18] <gezr> he asked me why it couldnt be done, and I told him it just wasnt going to work
[01:01:41] <gezr> Im glad I quit, there is only so much I can stand
[01:02:12] <Unit41> http://www.big-list.com/glasslathe.html
[01:02:58] <Gamma-X> lol
[01:03:03] <Gamma-X> a wire mig hahahaha
[01:03:06] <Gamma-X> what an idiot.
[01:04:17] <Unit41> http://cgi.ebay.com/DIY-Video-Build-a-CNC-Router-from-www-buildyourcnc-com_W0QQitemZ330199437033QQihZ014QQcategoryZ57122QQcmdZViewItem
[01:05:19] <Unit41> www.buildyourcnc.com
[01:05:42] <Gamma-X> why are taig's so popular?
[01:05:45] <Gamma-X> there soooo small lol
[01:06:32] <gezr> hobbies man
[01:06:57] <Gamma-X> gezr yeah myne is a hobby 2! lol
[01:07:13] <gezr> ive ran a 6meter bed lathe to make 1/2 inch parts we all do what we can with what we have
[01:07:56] <Gamma-X> gezr ahahahah wow! lol
[01:08:20] <gezr> im done with machining for others for now though
[01:08:44] <gezr> maybe some home stuff, but im not feeling the urge to cut metal just yet
[01:11:38] <Gamma-X> whats a handshake in cnc terms?
[01:11:43] <Gamma-X> like controller to pc when dnc'ing
[01:12:03] <a-l-p-h-a> ttl? mainly.
[01:12:13] <Gamma-X> ?
[01:14:24] <a-l-p-h-a> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5-pi8bnuh0 so sad.
[01:22:57] <dmes1> cnc to plc too
[01:24:13] <tomp2> Merry Christmas & good night all
[01:27:37] <gezr> im tossing out my a/b selector switch, I almost cut my thumb off trying to rotate the switch that time, and for whatever reason the guts are frozen up
[01:30:32] <Gamma-X> lol
[01:32:31] <gezr> I have way too much sheet stuck in boxes, for that rainy day, and when that rainy day came for a kvm switch, it wasnt there for me, I oild it up and while it got better I cant risk 2 pcs so its going to be parts fodder
[01:33:05] <gezr> now I have more ps2 ports then I know what to do with :(
[01:33:23] <gezr> oh well
[01:36:01] <gezr> man its been a long time since ive irc'd
[01:41:37] <Gamma-X> lol
[01:41:47] <Gamma-X> gezr u good at machining aprts?
[01:41:51] <Gamma-X> parts*
[01:43:46] <gezr> I am a machinist by trade
[01:44:14] <Gamma-X> where do u buy ur tools from?
[01:44:29] <gezr> tools to cut metal?
[01:44:48] <gezr> just a local shop supplier
[01:44:57] <Gamma-X> where u lcoated/
[01:45:00] <gezr> arkansas
[01:45:52] <Gamma-X> ouch
[01:46:11] <gezr> your in new york right, look in the yellow pages, wait
[01:46:21] <Gamma-X> ok
[01:46:27] <Gamma-X> my friend lvies in little rock
[01:46:58] <gezr> why dont you visit a local job shop, ask if they could spend some time showing you some things, and maybe ask them who their local vendor is
[01:47:37] <gezr> bring saftey glasses and have them showing when you enter the office
[01:49:35] <gezr> many shops dont let people onto the shop floor for various reasons, competition, liability, stuff like that, or even a local trade school
[01:49:47] <Gamma-X> ok
[01:50:18] <gezr> you can always lie, "im thinking about a new career and someone said I should look into machining" have them show you around, dont ask too detailed a question, but just observe
[01:51:04] <Gamma-X> ok
[01:51:09] <gezr> and on top of that you can find tons of books in the library
[01:51:59] <Gamma-X> true
[01:52:04] <Gamma-X> i need a good bookl
[01:52:05] <gezr> I learned this way "oh so you know math" yes i do "can you start tommrow" yeah "this guy is being run out of town by the police, you have 3 days to learn what he does"
[01:52:26] <Gamma-X> but i also need a vise, 3 phase converter, and bits.
[01:52:49] <gezr> 1500 bucks should cover that
[01:53:17] <Gamma-X> thats a lot! lol
[01:53:28] <Gamma-X> what is a roughing end mill used for?
[01:53:30] <gezr> ebay for a converter, same with tools, some of the cheap chinese stuff is junk, but its a starting point on what to look for
[01:53:36] <gezr> rough cuts
[01:53:41] <scutsxg> hi,is there anyone who familar with AXIS in emc2,and I want to record some trajectory poins for debug purpose
[01:53:48] <gezr> they tend to leave a less then desirable finish on the work piece
[01:54:06] <a-l-p-h-a> oh this is a crazy monitor
[01:54:06] <a-l-p-h-a> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAdku9YhSCI
[01:55:21] <gezr> wow
[01:55:27] <Gamma-X> gezr i already have tons of toolings, i jsut need bits to go with it.
[01:56:42] <gezr> gamma-x : I know but I dont know which part to set you going at
[01:57:07] <gezr> technically, the first thing, is you take a 1x1x1 square, and make a ball using a file
[01:57:11] <Gamma-X> what do u mean?
[01:57:29] <Gamma-X> how long will a regular end mill last? and are they good for emtal and wood?
[01:57:40] <gezr> I mean, I dont know which level of machining to start you off at,
[01:58:07] <Gamma-X> lol bring it oN!
[01:58:27] <gezr> a regular end mill may only last for 1 chip
[01:58:39] <Gamma-X> 1 chip? lol
[01:58:50] <Gamma-X> when u see m 42 what does that mean?
[01:58:52] <gezr> but it could last a few hundred feet worth of metal
[01:59:08] <gezr> its a type of tooling made from a powdered metal
[01:59:08] <jepler> scutsxg: you can use halscope to interactively capture data (in emc 2.2 it has a button to save the traces to a file so you can inspect them with another program), or you can use 'sampler' (man 1 halsampler, man 9 sampler) to dump an unlimited number of samples to a file. The former can be accomplished by just choosing "halscope" in the 'machine' menu, while the other involves modifying your .hal files to load sampler, connect it to the signals you want
[01:59:24] <gezr> i think, not sure about m42
[01:59:41] <Gamma-X> gezr what would I start out wth? ill be doing mild steel and alluminum
[01:59:46] <Gamma-X> hss?
[02:00:09] <gezr> http://www.efunda.com/materials/alloys/tool_steels/list_tool.cfm?m=ais&Page_Title=AISI%20Type%20M%20Tool%20Steels&SC=tool&ID_Low=AISI_M
[02:00:20] <scutsxg> jepler,thanks
[02:00:24] <gezr> high speed steel find that on the same link
[02:00:48] <gezr> all tool steels have a general and a specific purpose
[02:01:07] <Gamma-X> ok
[02:01:16] <scutsxg> jepler,can tkemc do the same job?
[02:01:38] <jepler> scutsxg: the tools I suggested (halscope, sampler) are not a part of the GUI, so they work the same whether you use axis or tkemc.
[02:01:55] <gezr> gamma-x your going to need to know things about materials, cutting tools, all sorts of things
[02:02:06] <jepler> I mean, it's separate from tkemc and axis; halscope has its own GUI where you click to select the values to record and so on
[02:02:20] <jepler> tutorial on halscope: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/hal_tutorial.html#sec:Tutorial%20-%20Halscope
[02:02:26] <scutsxg> in emc1,i found i can record my vel acc and postion in tkemc gui easily
[02:02:30] <gezr> I just dont know where to begin teaching you
[02:02:34] <Gamma-X> lol.
[02:02:46] <Gamma-X> just throw me in i pick it up fast or ill ask
[02:02:59] <gezr> master how a file cuts metal
[02:02:59] <Gamma-X> i really appreciate it!.
[02:03:20] <Gamma-X> it shaves filings off...
[02:03:20] <gezr> thats basic machining right there
[02:03:22] <scutsxg> maybe,in emc2 i have use halscope
[02:03:41] <Gamma-X> i need to know how to setup stock. etc
[02:03:44] <Gamma-X> tools to do it.
[02:03:48] <Gamma-X> alignment
[02:03:50] <Gamma-X> proper tooling.
[02:04:00] <scutsxg> i will try myself thanks
[02:04:05] <gezr> gamma-x for example, a file is an end mill, rolled out into a sheet, it only cuts in one direction
[02:04:08] <Gamma-X> i work at a power plant so a lot of stuff i am tought but not machining
[02:04:26] <Gamma-X> ok
[02:04:39] <gezr> same with an end mill, and yes, proper work holding is a plus, as well is the direction of the cut
[02:04:53] <jepler> the tools you have available in emc2 are much broader than the old "logging" in emc1 -- for instance, you can use halscope to capture individual step pulses, or watch the values that tell what is happening in the homing sequence, or look at the inputs and outputs of the classicladder plc ..
[02:05:06] <gezr> just cause you get your end mill spinning in the right direction, you have to make a choice as wether to conventional or climb mill
[02:05:36] <Gamma-X> dont know what u mean by conventional or climb mill
[02:05:40] <jepler> on the other hand, they're different, so you have to learn the same thing over again
[02:05:58] <gezr> gamma-x metal workholding is no different then wood wroking, there is just more precision involved
[02:06:17] <gezr> let me see if I can find a good general link
[02:06:25] <Gamma-X> ok
[02:06:52] <scutsxg> ok,jepler you have give me enough advice it is my turn to have close look at hal sth
[02:08:09] <gezr> http://www.physics.harvard.edu/services/machineshop/shopclass.html omg harvard
[02:08:49] <Gamma-X> lol
[02:08:50] <gezr> haha,some good links on that page
[02:10:19] <gezr> ton of links and a quality read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_working
[02:10:48] <gezr> other then that, general web searching and library will get you off on the right direction
[02:11:08] <Gamma-X> ok
[02:11:32] <Gamma-X> how can i tap sumtin if my machine aint setup to do that, whats that called?
[02:12:43] <gezr> if your machine cant ridgid tap, there are other methods you can use
[02:13:01] <Gamma-X> i heard theres a spring type tool that will do it.
[02:13:16] <gezr> yes, self reversing tapping heads
[02:13:37] <Gamma-X> are they any good?
[02:13:44] <gezr> they can be yes
[02:14:27] <gezr> a 29.99 tapping fixture you hand crank is just as good though
[02:14:56] <Gamma-X> yeah but not always accurate.
[02:15:03] <Gamma-X> in terms of how straight the tap is
[02:15:08] <gezr> yeah they are, its just a taped hole
[02:15:31] <gezr> the self reversing gizmos just have the tap floating in mid air as well
[02:16:51] <gezr> all the stuff we have available to us now, wasnt there when we went to the moon
[02:17:43] <gezr> hell my cell phone has more computing power, but its not so reliable
[02:18:15] <Gamma-X> gezr you are correct but we had alot of failurs before we got there lol and infimate amounts of moolag
[02:18:18] <Gamma-X> moolah*
[02:21:19] <fsdafsd> whoa I need to buy a lathe
[02:21:43] <fsdafsd> 4 axis :D
[02:21:51] <fsdafsd> lool
[02:22:59] <fsdafsd> 5 axis then 6 ftw
[02:23:05] <fsdafsd> does it get any better than 6 ?
[02:23:31] <fsdafsd> naw
[02:24:40] <fsdafsd> SHIBUYA 6-AXIS 2000 Watt PRC Laser]
[02:29:57] <fsdafsd> http://www.maxdiegroup.com/manor/laser.rm
[02:34:07] <jepler> http://axis.unpy.net/01198594294
[02:35:27] <gezr> oh what is that board about jepler?
[02:35:39] <gezr> and do you use mc to browse files as well?
[02:35:48] <jepler> I use 'ls' to browse files
[02:36:13] <gezr> same
[02:36:16] <jepler> that blog entry is about an inexpensive microcontroller board that can be used to get non-realtime analog inputs into emc
[02:38:59] <jmkasunich> it was a nice day for a walk in the woods: http://jmkasunich.com/cgi-bin/blosxom/index.html
[02:39:31] <jepler> hi jmkasunich
[02:39:38] <jmkasunich> hi jeff
[02:41:51] <Gamma-X> jepler very nice photography shots
[02:43:23] <jepler> jmkasunich: the moss shot is particularly neat
[02:43:30] <jmkasunich> thanks
[02:43:35] <Gamma-X> i like the anchor in the cement lol
[02:45:48] <jmkasunich> I'm amazed at the difference a tripod makes
[02:46:06] <jmkasunich> usually I shoot 100 and get one or two decent ones
[02:46:43] <jmkasunich> today I set up the tripod for everything, and got a much better percentage
[02:47:04] <jmkasunich> I think I only took about 20, but got several keepers
[02:50:52] <Gamma-X> tripod and a good camera
[02:50:56] <Gamma-X> = good pics.
[02:51:11] <Gamma-X> if ur takin family portrates dont forget ur umbrella shades.
[02:51:19] <jmkasunich> I have a Pentax K10, got it this summer
[02:51:24] <jmkasunich> I'm quite pleased with it so far
[02:51:28] <Gamma-X> nice
[02:51:34] <Gamma-X> i have a sony pos
[02:51:36] <jmkasunich> I don't do portraits
[02:52:00] <jmkasunich> for the most part, I don't do people pics, I prefer nature
[02:53:56] <Gamma-X> photography aint my style
[02:54:01] <Gamma-X> i like creating not capturing.
[03:16:26] <Gamma-X> whats regular aluminum 6061
[03:22:31] <jepler> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6061_aluminum
[03:23:38] <jepler> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum_alloy#Wrought_alloys
[03:29:05] <fsdafsd> awe man nice pictures jmkasunich
[03:29:16] <fsdafsd> amazing shots
[03:33:52] <fsdafsd> where is that at ?
[03:35:11] <jepler> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=North+Chagrin+Reservation,cleveland&ie=UTF8&ll=41.559206,-81.609192&spn=0.222217,0.527344&z=12&iwloc=A&om=1
[03:40:52] <fsdafsd> strange
[03:51:54] <fsdafsd> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1Yl89Yy91M&NR=1
[04:03:35] <gezr> hmm, couldnt mount the windows drive in ubunto emc 2.2.2, but I could mount the ext3 volume, and on top of that, I coudlnt access some things because of permisions
[04:06:18] <fsdafsd> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUEYCNeYrQE&feature=related
[04:06:30] <fsdafsd> oops
[04:06:58] <fsdafsd> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUEYCNeYrQE
[04:10:20] <fenn_> harumph
[04:10:31] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[04:41:02] <fenn> very cool videos from the guy who made the last youtube url
[05:51:25] <maddash> is it possible to execute two gcodes simultaneously?
[05:52:09] <maddash> pkill firefo
[06:14:13] <notranc> fg
[10:28:30] <kwaj> hello
[10:28:49] <fenn> morning
[10:29:53] <kwaj> i have one problem. I have a 4 axis wire machine. The G code output form cad-cam software is usualy XY in absolute coordinates and UV relative to XY.
[10:30:25] <kwaj> How should i ste the emc ini file then?
[10:32:12] <kwaj> Is there an option for sich configuration in emc?
[10:32:26] <fenn> i dont remember if there is a g-code for incremental UV, but you can fake it in hal
[10:33:08] <kwaj> how?
[10:33:20] <fenn> add the X command to the U command and forward that to the joint, and then you have to subtract it from the feedback position
[10:34:25] <fenn> might want to search the mailing list. this sounds familiar
[10:34:33] <fenn> i'm falling asleep though
[10:35:57] <kwaj> ok, i will, thank you
[11:40:17] <kwaj> how can i list all availiable signals comming form emc2?
[11:46:40] <kwaj> i used "halcmd show pin" command and it shows all pins.
[11:47:23] <kwaj> What this "owner" number means?
[11:49:48] <alex_joni> try sig for signals
[11:50:05] <alex_joni> kwaj: when in doubt, try man halcmd
[11:51:06] <alex_joni> also remember that halcmd does tab completion, so halcmd show <tab> <tab> should give you a list of available options
[12:15:59] <kwaj> Can i use math operations within hal, how? I would like to change Upos-cmd signal like this: Upos-cmd=Xpos-cmd+Upos-cmd
[12:18:44] <alex_joni> kwaj: there are various components in hal
[12:18:54] <alex_joni> what you want can be done with a sum2 component
[12:19:24] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/2.2/html//man/man9/sum2.9.html
[12:32:31] <kwaj> i see (i was reading the .pdf files and i did not find this). What does the number 9 mean, sum2.9 for instance (at http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/ )
[12:33:14] <alex_joni> it's some man page classification
[12:33:56] <alex_joni> sections they are called
[12:34:09] <alex_joni> section 1 - commands
[12:34:14] <alex_joni> section 2 - system calls
[12:34:16] <alex_joni> etc
[12:48:50] <robin_sz> hi alex
[12:53:53] <alex_joni> howdy mate
[12:57:47] <robin_sz> are you well/
[12:57:49] <robin_sz> :)
[12:57:58] <robin_sz> long time no see
[12:58:47] <alex_joni> quite well
[12:59:25] <alex_joni> how is life at the stables?
[12:59:32] <alex_joni> family well?
[13:07:19] <Guest826> hello everyone
[13:07:54] <alex_joni> hello
[13:08:28] <Guest826> can I ask a very nooby question? I was wondering if it's possible to run a stepper motor driver based on the ULN2003 chip with EMC
[13:08:52] <Guest826> since most of the driver boards are about 30$, and the ULN2003 costs 0.20$ and it only needs a zener diode
[13:08:58] <Guest826> sounds too good to be true
[13:09:38] <cradek> emc can generate the needed signals
[13:10:02] <cradek> stepgen has many modes of winding-activation output, see the stepgen section in the manual
[13:10:16] <alex_joni> Guest826: Vrolijk Kerstfeest en een Gelukkig Nieuwjaar!
[13:10:17] <cradek> performance with this kind of motor driver is not very good, but that's not an emc problem
[13:10:38] <Guest826> ok thanks I'll get reading then :) ah so the precision isn't really good?
[13:10:52] <Guest826> merry christmas and a happy newyear too btw
[13:11:35] <alex_joni> Guest826: the ULN2003 has a couple of drawbacks:
[13:11:39] <alex_joni> it's limited to 500mA
[13:11:43] <cradek> bbl
[13:11:57] <alex_joni> you need lots of outputs (hard to have enough pins on the parport for 3-4 axes)
[13:12:15] <alex_joni> it can at the best do halfstepping
[13:12:23] <alex_joni> it will be a bit slow..
[13:12:27] <alex_joni> but it's cheap :)
[13:13:34] <Guest826> I was thinking if I can first get something *remotely* working I can then upgrade the motors and drivers to better versions :D
[13:14:19] <Guest826> ah im off to play monopoly with the parents, thanks alot for your help :)
[13:15:37] <alex_joni> np.. merry christmas
[13:16:05] <Guest826> you too :) (for that remaining few hours :P)
[13:21:36] <kwaj> Can someone please explain to me how the comunication between emc2 and hal works. For X axis for instance, does emc send the Xpos-cmd and reads the Xpos-fb until they match and then sends a new Xpos-cmd?
[13:24:10] <alex_joni> kwaj: emc2 contains the hal
[13:24:16] <alex_joni> but you're referring to the motion controller
[13:24:24] <alex_joni> it sends the Xpos-cmd
[13:24:36] <alex_joni> and it looks at the Xpos-fb (which comes from the motos)
[13:24:48] <alex_joni> if the two are too much appart it signals a following error
[13:26:31] <kwaj> ok, but speppers usually don't have the feedback.
[13:27:05] <alex_joni> kwaj: steppers don't.. but stepgen does
[13:27:13] <alex_joni> that's the component that generates the steps
[13:27:54] <alex_joni> if the motion controller commands something stepgen can't do (too many steps / second ..) then it will sag behind
[13:32:09] <toastydeath> does anyone here use one of the newer blackberries
[13:35:53] <gnix_oag> Hello
[13:36:47] <alex_joni> hello
[13:36:53] <alex_joni> toastydeath: only sirup
[13:37:01] <gnix_oag> Linuxcnc may be translated into other languages?
[13:37:45] <alex_joni> gnix_oag: yes
[13:37:45] <gnix_oag> I would like to be translated into Chinese
[13:37:58] <alex_joni> gnix_oag: can you translate?
[13:38:41] <alex_joni> gnix_oag: maybe this helps? http://eneas.juve.ro/~juve/emc/59BE8D55.jpg
[13:38:44] <gnix_oag> From ubuntu in finding people to translate
[13:39:02] <alex_joni> that is a screenshot I got a while ago, unfortunately I didn't get the translation file..
[13:40:04] <gnix_oag> What I mean is that the official website
[13:40:42] <gnix_oag> linuxcnc.org
[13:41:07] <alex_joni> gnix_oag: oh, ok.. that can be done too
[13:41:16] <alex_joni> if you send me the translations, I can put them online
[13:41:40] <alex_joni> toastydeath: http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Blackberry-Syrup/Detail.aspx
[13:41:51] <toastydeath> lol.
[13:44:07] <gnix_oag> And how I have the original documents?
[13:44:41] <alex_joni> gnix_oag: the original documents are what is online at www.linuxcnc.org
[13:46:29] <gnix_oag> oh ok
[13:46:55] <gnix_oag> thank:
[13:49:07] <alex_joni> np
[13:53:35] <kwaj> I still havent figured out what should i change if i want the u axis to be controled relative to x axis. Is "Upos-cmd=Xpos-cmd+Upos-cmd" function all what i need? What about the feedback? How it should be changed.
[13:55:28] <toastydeath> not that i can help you but are you talking about lathe style U axis
[13:55:34] <toastydeath> or a boring mill style U axis
[13:55:53] <toastydeath> or some other third thing
[13:56:21] <kwaj> this is a 4 axis wire cnc machine
[13:56:36] <toastydeath> oh man there was a discussion about that earlier
[13:56:52] <toastydeath> i thought there was an issue with doing it
[13:56:58] <toastydeath> whatevs i am ignorant on the subject
[14:04:01] <gnix_oag> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/documents/ original documents´╝č
[14:05:08] <alex_joni> gnix_oag: that is some old documentation
[14:05:34] <alex_joni> gnix_oag: do you want to translate the webpage www.linuxcnc.org? or the Manuals?
[14:06:03] <alex_joni> gnix_oag: Manuals are at: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/docs/src/
[14:06:16] <gnix_oag> First manual
[14:06:16] <alex_joni> kwaj: you want this:
[14:06:27] <alex_joni> kwaj: a couple of sum2 components
[14:07:01] <alex_joni> then you sum together the Xpos-cmd and Upos-cmd
[14:07:07] <alex_joni> and connect the output to a stepgen
[14:07:15] <alex_joni> and you do the same for the feedback
[14:07:34] <kwaj> and that is all?
[14:07:42] <gnix_oag> Based on tex
[14:07:44] <alex_joni> Upos-fb = stepgenoutput-Xpos-fb (you can use sum2 with a negative gain for one of the inputs)
[14:07:46] <gnix_oag> good
[14:07:55] <gnix_oag> ok
[14:08:03] <alex_joni> gnix_oag: it's not tex exactly, it's lyx.. but it's quite similar
[14:09:48] <alex_joni> gnix_oag: there are 3 manuals: User Manual, Integrator Manual and Developers Manual
[14:12:07] <gnix_oag> There are no translation guide?
[14:13:38] <gnix_oag> Lyx have installed latex?
[14:15:12] <gnix_oag> I know, thank you
[14:23:05] <alex_joni> lyx is similar to latex, but a bit easier to use by newbies
[14:31:55] <BigJohnT> I have a pyvcp slider in axis as a pierce delay. If I set a value then after the arc stable I need to wait before motion starts
[14:32:02] <BigJohnT> any hints?
[14:32:11] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: HAL?
[14:32:16] <BigJohnT> yes
[14:32:21] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wonders if that's enough as a hint
[14:32:36] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: :P
[14:32:40] <alex_joni> looking for something now
[14:32:49] <BigJohnT> looked for a way to use the value for a timer but came up blank
[14:33:29] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: there is a "oneshot" component
[14:33:38] <BigJohnT> ok
[14:33:40] <alex_joni> oneshot.0.out-not might do as you want
[14:33:56] <alex_joni> (stay 0 for a certain amount of time, then switch to 1)..
[14:34:14] <alex_joni> but I don't like it as a solution
[14:35:14] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: the proper way of doing this is using classicladder
[14:35:17] <alex_joni> and a simple rung
[14:35:22] <BigJohnT> my thoughts at this time is to interrupt the motion.feed-hold until a timer has timed out
[14:35:31] <BigJohnT> ok
[14:35:46] <BigJohnT> an input and a timer
[14:36:03] <alex_joni> right.. classicladder has timers
[14:36:33] <BigJohnT> I program plc's all the time but I have never did anything in classicladder
[14:36:49] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: there's a sample config.. so it should be easy to get going
[14:37:01] <alex_joni> btw.. don't despair at the GUI for classicladder.. it's a bit strange
[14:37:06] <alex_joni> but you'll get used to it :D
[14:37:31] <BigJohnT> yea, I looked at it the other day but got nowhere LOL
[14:37:48] <BigJohnT> thanks alex, I have to be off to work now
[14:37:56] <alex_joni> ok.. later
[14:37:57] <Dallur> there is actually some pretty good documentation online on how to work with ladder programming
[14:37:58] <BigJohnT> ttul
[14:38:10] <alex_joni> Dallur: he said he's used to plc's
[14:38:18] <alex_joni> so I don't think the actual ladder is the issue :)
[14:38:22] <Dallur> ohh ok :)
[14:38:31] <dogfishguzzler> Quick poll: How cheap can I build a cnc router?
[14:38:44] <alex_joni> how big?
[14:38:46] <BigJohnT> no it's just getting into classicladder gui...
[14:38:54] <alex_joni> using scrap motors & parts?
[14:39:00] <dogfishguzzler> 24" * 36"
[14:39:01] <BigJohnT> anyhow thanks guys and have a great evening
[14:39:09] <dogfishguzzler> No scrap motors or boards
[14:39:16] <alex_joni> dogfishguzzler: if you have all the parts and your time is free.. then I'd say you can build it for free
[14:39:51] <dogfishguzzler> Well it's like this; My wife gave me the grand for my lathe and now I'm thinking maybe I could build the router cheaper.
[14:40:04] <dogfishguzzler> Rather than buy the lathe
[14:40:38] <toastydeath> what would you use either for
[14:41:03] <dogfishguzzler> I would find work for either machine but could keep the router busier
[14:41:03] <toastydeath> i guess that's the better way to judge where the money goes
[14:41:14] <toastydeath> then build the router
[14:41:21] <dogfishguzzler> The lathe would not be cnc
[14:41:29] <alex_joni> oh, why not?
[14:41:48] <dogfishguzzler> It could become cnc lol
[14:41:59] <dogfishguzzler> but the grand only gets me a manual machine
[14:42:45] <toastydeath> i inevitably have a ton of stuff that requires basic turning
[14:43:14] <dogfishguzzler> Precision stuff or glorified washers toasty?
[14:43:27] <toastydeath> just random crap
[14:43:31] <toastydeath> pins, bushings
[14:43:36] <toastydeath> handles
[14:43:43] <dogfishguzzler> I really want to do tricky work, thats what I love.
[14:44:18] <toastydeath> what uh, qualifies as tricky work
[14:44:43] <dogfishguzzler> I was thinking though, if I could build a router for say $600 then I could sell it or use it to make more lathe money quickly.
[14:45:02] <dogfishguzzler> High tolerance stuff toasty.
[14:45:13] <toastydeath> how high
[14:45:39] <dogfishguzzler> Well for a manual lathe 5 tenths is about as tight you can do.
[14:46:04] <dogfishguzzler> Without a tool post grinder
[14:46:04] <toastydeath> for a lathe under 1k, that is true
[14:46:14] <toastydeath> erm, that's not quite true
[14:46:42] <toastydeath> but it holds for most manual lathes.
[14:46:42] <dogfishguzzler> what do you mean?
[14:46:46] <dogfishguzzler> ah
[14:46:52] <dogfishguzzler> I know its not a given
[14:46:56] <toastydeath> there are many manual lathes that will hold a tighter tolerance than that
[14:47:01] <toastydeath> but they are not common
[14:47:06] <dogfishguzzler> sure for 20 grand
[14:47:22] <toastydeath> well a monarch 10ee is like 4 grand used
[14:47:37] <toastydeath> and a hardinge hlv is about 20 used because everyone wants one
[14:47:55] <dogfishguzzler> yeah my buddy just picked up a hardinge
[14:48:06] <dogfishguzzler> nice machines even at 20+ years old
[14:48:10] <toastydeath> a lot of the leblond lathes will hold a tenth or two for a decent distance
[14:48:36] <dogfishguzzler> brb
[14:50:28] <gnix_oag> alex_joni: cvs -z5 -d:ext:anon@cvs.linuxcnc.org:/cvs co emc2
[14:50:39] <gnix_oag> cvs [checkout aborted]: cannot get working directory: No such file or directory
[14:53:01] <alex_joni> did you export CVS_RSH=ssh ?
[14:55:09] <gnix_oag> sudo apt-get install ssh
[14:55:19] <gnix_oag> export CVS_RSH=ssh
[14:55:21] <gnix_oag> cvs -z5 -d:ext:anon@cvs.linuxcnc.org:/cvs co emc2
[14:55:21] <gnix_oag> cvs [checkout aborted]: cannot get working directory: No such file or directory
[14:56:45] <alex_joni> can you ping cvs.linuxcnc.org ?
[14:57:12] <gnix_oag> it's ok
[14:57:32] <alex_joni> odd
[14:58:11] <jepler> is there something unusual about the directory where you are executing cvs? For instance, I found a report that doing cvs operations on a "sshfs" filesystem can lead to an error like that. http://fuse.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/SshfsFaq
[15:00:15] <alex_joni> cvs works here..
[15:04:06] <gnix_oag> but i ....
[15:04:25] <alex_joni> maybe ssh is not working?
[15:04:46] <alex_joni> try ssh cvs.linuxcnc.org
[15:04:52] <alex_joni> do you get a password prompt?
[15:05:36] <alex_joni> gnix_oag: you can also get the files using the webinterface (http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/docs/src/src.tar.gz?tarball=1)
[15:06:13] <gnix_oag> ok
[15:06:23] <gnix_oag> ssh cvs.linuxcnc.org
[15:07:54] <gnix_oag> The authenticity of host 'cvs.linuxcnc.org (' can't be established.
[15:07:54] <gnix_oag> DSA key fingerprint is 5b:b7:3d:04:9d:dd:86:ad:dc:c6:78:81:d4:3d:05:8e.
[15:07:54] <gnix_oag> Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)?
[15:09:42] <gnix_oag> Download this directory in tarball :)
[15:10:15] <gnix_oag> thanks
[15:16:14] <dogfishguzzler> Just got off the phone with the flatbed guy he only wants $90 to move a lathe from about 60 miles from here!
[15:16:36] <dogfishguzzler> So Im gonna buy me a big lathe, Ill wait on the router
[15:17:20] <dogfishguzzler> I dont have access to all the parts to build a free alex_joni router at this time.
[15:18:12] <alex_joni> :P
[15:18:22] <kwaj> I would like to use the sum2 rt module with gain of -1.0. I added "sum2.2.gain0 -1.0" to ini file, but i got an "unknown command" error. What syntax should i use then?
[15:19:30] <alex_joni> setp
[15:19:38] <alex_joni> setp sum2.2.gain0 -1.0
[15:45:57] <kwaj> I added the sum2 rt modeles and tested the machine. It works fine in manual control mode. The problem is, that when i click the "Home Axis" button, the X axis position is set to 75.13 and Y to 3529.894. Any idea what could be wrong?
[15:46:18] <alex_joni> kwaj: in the GUI?
[15:46:28] <kwaj> U and V can be homed to 0.
[15:46:30] <alex_joni> do you have any offsets active?
[15:46:30] <kwaj> yes
[15:46:37] <kwaj> no
[15:46:43] <kwaj> i tred G10 x0 y0
[15:47:04] <kwaj> and i get the same result
[15:47:22] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CoordinateSystems#So_if_you_re_lost_what_should_you_do
[15:50:24] <kwaj> g92.1 solved the problem. Now it works fine! Thank you!
[15:52:48] <alex_joni> np
[16:12:27] <robin_sz> RUNNING=$($FAXSTAT -s|grep HylaFAX|grep Running)
[16:13:37] <robin_sz> oopsie
[16:53:38] <anonimasu> :)
[16:54:56] <maddash> ::)
[16:55:15] <archivist> :::)
[16:55:56] <maddash> :::)-<
[16:56:41] <alex_joni> (:)
[16:57:47] <archivist> IRC space invaders
[16:58:56] <CIA-46> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: allow the G92 coordinate system offset to be zeroed from the menu
[16:59:05] <CIA-46> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl: allow the G92 coordinate system offset to be zeroed from the menu
[16:59:28] <maddash> (X)
[17:02:29] <maddash> hm, my memory's a bit fuzzy about this, but which module(s) sit(s) at the other end of the massive number of pins that are exported in init_hal_io() inside motion.c?
[17:03:01] <cradek> motion
[17:03:36] <alex_joni> and on the other end it depends on the type of machine
[17:03:36] <maddash> loopback signals?
[17:03:40] <cradek> err I guess it's called motmod
[17:03:47] <alex_joni> maddash: for sim it's loopback
[17:03:49] <maddash> alex_joni: eg, trivkins?
[17:03:57] <alex_joni> maddash: that too
[17:04:01] <alex_joni> but not in HAL..
[17:05:25] <maddash> for instance, grepping 'traj.pos_out' in the emc2 parent directory gives...motion.c, only.
[17:06:08] <maddash> nvm, looks unused.
[17:08:20] <alex_joni> hmm.. it's been a while since I used knoppix.. can't say I like it much now :)
[17:08:47] <alex_joni> ubuntu is way nicer .. you can see a single concept throughout all the menus & options
[17:17:42] <maddash> alex_joni: you mean, "gnome"
[17:18:24] <alex_joni> maddash: no, I mean ubuntu
[17:18:41] <alex_joni> I've tried different gnome distros.. not that much fun :)
[19:18:41] <CIA-46> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/extensions/emcmodule.cc: keep proper reference count of the internal stat object of position logger objects. This fixes a segfault encountered by alex_joni when trying to use a different stat object than liveplotter.stat in positionlogger.
[20:15:35] <CIA-46> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/extensions/emcmodule.cc: include error_type (src/libnml/nml.hh: NML_ERROR_TYPE) together with emcStatusBuffer invalid message
[20:20:44] <alex_joni> byee :)
[20:23:01] <gezr> its good to see him talking like that sometimes
[20:24:44] <alex_joni> gezr: who?
[20:24:48] <alex_joni> CIA?
[20:28:42] <gezr> heh yeah
[20:29:14] <gezr> got my data backed up, im thinking about installing ubunto on the old box now
[20:29:47] <gezr> I dont really have a cdrom drive available though
[20:30:08] <alex_joni> why do you keep saying ubunto ?
[20:30:15] <alex_joni> I noticed that in a lot fo people..
[20:30:39] <gezr> I dont know
[20:30:46] <gezr> I could say sid
[20:30:58] <alex_joni> no, you could say ubuntu :)
[20:31:24] <gezr> yeah, for a long time, I was thinking it was unbunto
[20:31:34] <gezr> oh well
[20:31:41] <alex_joni> :P
[20:45:29] <gezr> hmm
[20:46:08] <gezr> would i be better off just buying the parts to build a new box, just some cheap stuff, nothing fancy or like a gamming machine then trying to use an old amd 6k 350?
[20:46:46] <gezr> I guess compile times are going to be an important factor dont you agree?
[20:46:50] <jepler> 350MHz? I doubt you'll be happy with the performance of such a slow CPU.
[20:47:22] <cradek> all my emc machines are fastish P3 systems with 512MB of ram
[20:49:15] <gezr> here is what im thinking, Ill use emc to drive transistor banks all hooked to more transistor banks, hooked to more transistor banks, all hooked to micro coils, and then and only then will I be able to control gravity
[20:50:07] <gezr> sorry about that, was dreaming for a second
[20:50:11] <anonimasu> -_-
[20:52:28] <gezr> the idea of a new computer will just piss the wife off
[20:52:55] <alex_joni> gezr: nobody said a new one :P
[20:53:08] <gezr> she wants me to get a little laptop for school cause she doesnt like me using hers, and I sent her out today to get her xmass present, an itouch which is about the price of a new puter
[20:53:32] <alex_joni> I got a very nice laptop for my wife..
[20:53:33] <gezr> I doubt i could find a used one anywhere to be honest with you
[20:53:46] <gezr> does she like it?
[20:53:52] <alex_joni> a v3205 from fujitsu-siemens.. she loves it
[20:53:55] <gezr> oh wow
[20:53:57] <alex_joni> it's 12.1"
[20:54:10] <alex_joni> almost matches her purse :D
[20:54:22] <gezr> hahaha, the one my wife has is massive
[20:55:21] <alex_joni> this one's a nice one :)
[20:55:37] <alex_joni> intel core2duo T5300 @ 1800 MHz
[20:55:40] <gezr> I bet it is, thats what im supposed to be getting i think
[20:56:23] <alex_joni> 1G ram, 120G SATA, DVD super multi, BT, wifi abg, card reader, cardbus, 4xUSB, 1xDVI, 1xfirewire
[20:57:01] <alex_joni> and it's nice & tiny :D
[20:57:29] <jepler> my new laptop's smaller than yours! (I got an eee 4g surf)
[20:58:17] <alex_joni> jepler: sweet :D
[20:58:31] <alex_joni> any reason for that against the OLPC ?
[20:59:29] <jepler> a friend of mine says he's getting an OLPC so I'll have a chance to see one.
[21:00:14] <gezr> hey guys, can you explain to me the reason why no usb interfaces are being worked on?
[21:00:14] <alex_joni> cool, let me know :)
[21:00:25] <alex_joni> gezr: usb interfaces?
[21:00:26] <anonimasu> gezr: what do you mean`?
[21:00:29] <anonimasu> gezr: for emc?
[21:00:29] <gezr> is it just no real time usb sub systems arein place?
[21:00:36] <gezr> not specifically for emc
[21:00:40] <anonimasu> gezr: usb has a high latency..
[21:00:42] <gezr> but for any real time linux
[21:00:51] <alex_joni> roughly 1msec is the min latency for usb
[21:00:59] <gezr> thats what I thought, thats cool, I wasnt sure
[21:01:07] <alex_joni> so you won't get over 1000 updates / second
[21:01:11] <alex_joni> which sucks :D
[21:01:36] <gezr> isnt a parallel port limited at well, what 50khz?
[21:01:55] <anonimasu> yes something like it..
[21:02:07] <anonimasu> that
[21:02:13] <anonimasu> that's 50 times fater then usb.
[21:02:17] <anonimasu> faster..
[21:02:26] <gezr> so the only true method then besides that, is i/o card correct?
[21:02:51] <alex_joni> gezr: or something smarter
[21:02:58] <anonimasu> yep
[21:02:59] <gezr> oh? please explain
[21:03:00] <alex_joni> personally I favour RT-ethernet
[21:03:10] <alex_joni> or something ethernet based
[21:03:17] <alex_joni> like EtherCAT
[21:03:24] <gezr> rt-ethernet? they found a way to use net cards for something other then networking?
[21:03:37] <alex_joni> gezr: it is networking, but point to point
[21:03:53] <alex_joni> with a predefined way of passing data
[21:03:57] <gezr> is that the faster version of say the rs232 stuff where devices are linked together, such as a microcontroler?
[21:04:04] <alex_joni> way faster
[21:04:18] <alex_joni> I think it works up to 30-40% of 100Mbit eth
[21:04:39] <alex_joni> it could work faster, but that's a safe margin which gets used usually
[21:04:41] <gezr> are the component or each nodes parts relatively simple, Ie 1 chip?
[21:04:50] <alex_joni> gezr: regular eth card
[21:05:01] <alex_joni> for rt-ethernet
[21:05:14] <alex_joni> for ethercat you have a pc-based master, and special chips on the slaves
[21:05:23] <gezr> at the other end, say an encoder --- dac ---chip----ethernet cable?
[21:05:26] <alex_joni> they are kinda simple (1 chip), but not that cheap
[21:05:32] <alex_joni> gezr: exactly
[21:05:46] <alex_joni> jepler: what processor is on the eee?
[21:05:55] <alex_joni> gezr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EtherCAT
[21:06:22] <jepler> alex_joni: intel celeron mobile, running (underclocked) at 630MHz
[21:06:56] <alex_joni> any idea what model?
[21:08:04] <gezr> hmm, the linux moduels are for rtai, is that compatable ?
[21:08:31] <jepler> alex_joni: "900 MHz Intel Celeron M ULV 353"
[21:09:23] <jepler> gezr: yes, while emc has support for both the rtlinux and rtai realtime kernels, in practice all or almost all users of emc are on rtai realtime kernals (all of the people using the precompiled emc2 for ubuntu dapper, for instance)
[21:10:15] <gezr> yeah, I get confused by remembering adeos, at least thats what uname has been telling me on the drives ive been sucking data off of
[21:10:42] <gezr> the base ethercat packages for learning are astronomical
[21:11:13] <gezr> 1699 euro versus the american peso is going to be uber expensive
[21:11:53] <jepler> alex_joni: in practice it's fine for web browsing, ssh, and videos, even underclocked like it is. I don't plan to do much software development on it :-P
[21:13:05] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler, you've got an eeepc?
[21:13:12] <alex_joni> jepler: I wouldn't expect you to :P
[21:13:13] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: yes
[21:13:24] <lerneaen_hydra> nice! how's the screen resolution?
[21:13:37] <alex_joni> I was wondering if it's a smarter processer which support paravirtualisation, so XEN could run nicely..
[21:13:37] <lerneaen_hydra> I'm very tempted to get one myself when they're released here
[21:15:19] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: it is fine for terminal windows and well-designed websites but bad for any website designed for a fixed-width, 1024-pixel layout. Luckily I don't browse many sites like that
[21:15:47] <lerneaen_hydra> nice, what about lyx/latex/pdf documentation?
[21:16:02] <alex_joni> jepler: how bad is the linuxcnc.org site?
[21:16:53] <jepler> alex_joni: I don't remember, but I think the right-hand sidebar couldn't be reached without horizontal scrolling
[21:17:23] <jepler> I don't have it handy or I'd check now
[21:17:29] <alex_joni> ah, ok, that's not THAT bad then :)
[21:17:43] <jepler> some of the images in the documentation are too wide too :-P
[21:17:55] <alex_joni> yeah, I know ..
[21:18:08] <alex_joni> I was pondering about resizing them.. but I gave up :D
[21:18:26] <alex_joni> (in mod_docview or whatever it's called :)
[21:20:05] <jepler> hm, looks like the ethercat license agreement is trouble for those who wish to create truly "free" implementations. http://ethercatmaster.berlios.de/#license I would have to say that I don't see how you can distribute ethercat software in compliance with the GPL (since supposedly your rights to modify the software are curtailed by the license agreement with Beckhoff)
[21:20:23] <alex_joni> jepler: I think that's true..
[21:20:39] <alex_joni> the chips they supply aren't very open either
[21:20:40] <gezr> jepler that sucks
[21:20:47] <gezr> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3523726&CatId=332
[21:20:54] <gezr> would that make a decent emc box?
[21:22:11] <alex_joni> gezr: grab a live cd, go to the store, stick it in, run latency-test :D
[21:23:26] <gezr> I think i just need to find a drive thats rw so I can burn my backup junk, and then stick the back up drive in the 1ghz box and dual boot
[21:23:34] <jepler> gezr: it's impossible to tell with 100% certainty whether any particular box is good for emc until you've actually run a latency test on it. onboard video is often a realtime killer. that said, I have a machine with nforce430 and amd x2 and it gives OK results on the latency-test (haven't controlled real hardware with it though)
[21:23:56] <jepler> (using the onboard nvidia vga with vesa driver)
[21:24:01] <gezr> oh crap the wife is home
[21:24:38] <gezr> i shall return, but I believe you guys are right
[21:47:13] <gezr> yep she spent money
[21:58:40] <gezr> any of you play world of warcraft?
[21:59:26] <Skullworks_PGA1> * Skullworks_PGA1 only plays AVP or F.E.A.R.
[21:59:43] <gezr> I dont know of this AVP
[22:00:24] <Skullworks_PGA1> old game - Aliens vrs Preditor II
[22:00:35] <gezr> oh sweet, my brother played that
[22:01:11] <fenn> i dont get the ethercat "technology license" - what are they licensing? a patent? a trademark?
[22:01:15] <Skullworks_PGA1> need to go visit the bank
[22:01:21] <fenn> i can do whatever i want with gpl software
[22:01:38] <gezr> they arnt releasing a gpl version from what I gather
[22:02:36] <gezr> wait im wrong
[22:02:43] <gezr> let me read this
[22:04:34] <gezr> no its pure gpl, the statement says, if you intend to sell/distribute you must sign an agreement and agree to keep changes upstream for all compatabilities
[22:05:25] <cradek> gpl + extra rules = not allowed by gpl
[22:06:23] <fenn> i suppose you could just call it EtherGNAT
[22:06:32] <gezr> yeah, thats true, its odd
[22:07:02] <gezr> its not really a stipulation, they are more interested in someone taking the code, making some modifications then selling it, which breaks gpl without the extra cruff
[22:07:32] <gezr> cradek am I wrong here?
[22:09:02] <gezr> I dont understand what they are trying to acomplish with the adendum
[22:09:08] <fenn> i'm guessing the engineers got all excited about open source and pushed for GPL, and then the marketing/lawyers descended upon the project and added that clause without really checking up on what it meant
[22:09:39] <fenn> they are trying to protect the "brand reputation" of etherCAT, which is what trademarks are for
[22:10:03] <fenn> if some flunky downstream implementation doesn't work, it ruins their reputation
[22:10:44] <fenn> but you can't maintain control and have freedom at the same time.. see the firefox/iceweasel brouhaha
[22:12:57] <gezr> it looks like they are attempting to make sure that the associated "hardware" vendors get their share of the pie, i would imagine thats where they are expecting to make the money
[22:13:35] <gezr> so i guess, if I was to develop a device interface for etherCat that I had to modify some to work with my hardware, that would be in breach of the agreement
[22:13:50] <gezr> making me a sole provider of hardware/software
[22:14:38] <gezr> so they want contributions because they dont have the right brains, but they dont want any of those contributers to benefit finacinaly from the aditions
[22:16:27] <gezr> yeah, they appear to have tied a gpl software agreement, into a hardware technology implementation
[22:16:41] <gezr> cant activate the hardware until you obtain a liscense
[22:16:58] <fenn> i think it just means that things marked "EtherCAT" have to stay backwards-compatible with the spec
[22:18:12] <fenn> dunno about the patents though
[22:18:56] <jepler> fenn: the agreement I saw says that ethercat is also covered by certain patents
[22:19:56] <jepler> (http://ethercatmaster.berlios.de/files/EtherCAT_Master_License_Agreement.pdf)
[22:20:10] <gezr> hmm, all the files have this in them 00009 // fixme insert copyright notice
[22:20:41] <gezr> yeah i read that as well, I dont understand it jepler
[22:24:01] <gezr> https://svn.berlios.de/svnroot/repos/ethercatmaster/trunk/ethercatmaster.cdl
[22:24:07] <jepler> gezr: imo it means that you cannot redistribute the ethercatmaster.berlios.de software, because you cannot comply with the GPL (you must extend the right to modify and redistribute modified copies to anyone who receives it from you) and the ethercat master license agreement (which stipulates that the software may not be modified in certain ways, among other additional restrictions). See the GNU GPL version 2.0 sections 6 and 7.
[22:25:21] <maddash> is there an example on using stepgen's ctrl_type=v?
[22:26:12] <gezr> jepler in my link they mention the use of the names/logos
[22:27:05] <gezr> yeah if you say emc with ethercast master, you would have to pay the fee
[22:27:57] <jepler> maddash: no, but the only difference between it and the regular (position-mode) is that the position-cmd pin is replaced with the velocity-cmd pin.
[22:28:07] <fenn> er, what fee?
[22:28:36] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler, re alex's remote gui testing, if you were to run axis over SSH with X, I assume you wouldn't need to change anything at all
[22:29:11] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: that's right -- axis remote over the X protocol has always worked
[22:30:00] <lerneaen_hydra> ah, o
[22:30:02] <gezr> okay, its sleeting outside, i have 2 packs of smokes, and the stuff isnt freezing to the ground, do i go and get more smokes now?
[22:30:02] <lerneaen_hydra> *ok
[22:41:07] <maddash> excellent.
[22:42:07] <alex_joni> gezr: nope
[22:42:24] <alex_joni> ideally you put the 2 packs on some shelf and give up smoking for good
[22:43:29] <ALS> And put the money on a new pc!
[22:46:05] <alex_joni> yeah, 'xactly
[22:58:41] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:05:03] <jepler> night alex_joni
[23:14:04] <BigJohnT> any classicladder guru's out there?
[23:15:10] <ALS> guru's not me just ask?
[23:15:54] <BigJohnT> I'm looking at the demo_step_cl example and I can not find where the classicladder.hal file is called
[23:16:44] <BigJohnT> I see in the ini where core_stepper.hal and demo_step_cl.hal are called
[23:16:47] <ALS> u,load classic ladder in hal file
[23:17:32] <BigJohnT> let me look again at the core stepper and demo step hal files
[23:17:36] <ALS> .clp file
[23:19:29] <BigJohnT> the .clp file is the actual ladder yes?
[23:19:40] <ALS> I loaded the classicladder from terminal and wrote the ladder and saved as.
[23:20:15] <BigJohnT> I'm trying to find where classicladder.hal is loaded in the demo step cl example
[23:22:52] <fenn> BigJohnT: HALFILE = demo_step_cl.hal
[23:22:59] <ALS> yep
[23:24:24] <BigJohnT> is it the loadusr classicladder line?
[23:25:47] <fenn> loadrt classicladder_rt loads the realtime module, and loadusr classicladder loads the gui
[23:26:31] <fenn> oops, apparently it needs to do some stuff even if you dont want the gui
[23:26:48] <BigJohnT> ok, just trying to get a grip on classic ladder... the ladder part is no problem for me been doing plc's for years
[23:27:29] <BigJohnT> there is a classicladder.hal file in the config how is it used?
[23:28:14] <fenn> it hooks all the pins/signals up to the PLC
[23:28:35] <BigJohnT> where is it called from?
[23:29:56] <fenn> it's not used
[23:30:10] <BigJohnT> ok that is what threw me for a loop
[23:30:35] <BigJohnT> I'm pulling my hair out going where in the world is it being called from LOL
[23:30:49] <fenn> there's a command you should learn, called "grep" - it looks inside files for a phrase or word
[23:31:10] <BigJohnT> from the terminal?
[23:31:15] <fenn> grep -r ./ classicladder.hal
[23:31:26] <fenn> oh damn i did that backwards :)
[23:31:30] <fenn> *bonk*
[23:31:57] <fenn> i usually type grep classicladder.hal ./ -R
[23:32:06] <fenn> but i thought the -R at the end might be confusing
[23:33:06] <fenn> so in this case 'classicladder.hal' is the phrase you're searching for, and you're looking in the current directory (./)
[23:33:35] <BigJohnT> I did a grep --help and got the low down
[23:33:42] <BigJohnT> what does grep stand for?
[23:34:34] <fenn> get regular expression
[23:34:55] <BigJohnT> ok more cool linux stuff
[23:35:49] <fenn> hm.. apparently it has many backronyms
[23:36:20] <BigJohnT> grep is cool and makes my life easy now in linux
[23:36:40] <BigJohnT> ok, back to classicladder for me LOL
[23:37:04] <fenn> The program's name derives from the command used to perform a similar operation, using the Unix text editor ed:
[23:37:07] <fenn> g/re/p
[23:38:23] <BigJohnT> cool, thanks fenn
[23:54:30] <Gamma-X2> hey all whats up
[23:54:51] <BigJohnT> trying to figure out the gui for classicladder and u?
[23:55:08] <Gamma-X2> just got home from work
[23:55:10] <Gamma-X2> overtime yay!
[23:55:11] <BigJohnT> and sipping on a glass of sangra
[23:55:29] <BigJohnT> you will need it to by tools for your new mill
[23:56:40] <Gamma-X2> lol i know
[23:56:47] <Gamma-X2> first on the list is a 3 phase converter
[23:57:25] <BigJohnT> so have you picked one out or are you going to build one
[23:57:46] <fenn> Gamma-X2: are you sure you need 3 phase to run the servos?
[23:58:19] <BigJohnT> I sure he doesn't LOL
[23:58:50] <fenn> i guess one way to tell would be look at the transformer and count the number of cores
[23:59:24] <BigJohnT> or take a picture of each panel and post them up for us to see
[23:59:38] <BigJohnT> I bet yours it just like mine