#emc | Logs for 2007-12-21

[00:00:06] <dmess> K.. WOW.. my Scouter was a POW 3 times.. the germans tatooed him the 1st time... then he played tag.. layed down mines... he joked that he still had the mines he started the war with.. laid for 1 ...captured.. pulled... laied for the other..... captured .. repeat
[00:00:41] <SWPadnos> http://www.soft-collection.com/images/ParallelPortViever.gif
[00:00:59] <BigJohnT> gamma http://home.att.net/~waterfront-woods/Articles/phaseconverter.htm
[00:02:13] <BigJohnT> swpadnos is that a program for linux?
[00:02:29] <SWPadnos> looks like WIndows
[00:02:44] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT u attempted to build this?
[00:02:57] <SWPadnos> it just came up in a google search, and it shows nicely where the various bits come from software-wise
[00:02:58] <BigJohnT> no attempt have built many
[00:03:03] <eric_U> I finally got my computer to talk to my iRobot packbot today.
[00:03:11] <eric_U> what a pain
[00:03:39] <BigJohnT> gamma this is the one I was looking for http://www.homemetalshopclub.org/projects/phconv/phconv.html
[00:03:51] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT how big of a project is that?
[00:03:51] <BigJohnT> use the potential relay one
[00:03:57] <Karl1> This WII vet told me that in the 'old country' he'd make all the tools in his tool chest - filing and hand scrapping before they learned the machines.
[00:04:00] <BigJohnT> not much
[00:04:11] <SWPadnos> this is more or less the one I built: http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/phase-converter/phase-converter.html
[00:04:17] <SWPadnos> I added some stuff, I think
[00:04:36] <BigJohnT> I like the self starting one with the potential relay
[00:04:52] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT how much will it run me to make myself?
[00:04:55] <SWPadnos> yep, that's what I added ;)
[00:05:22] <BigJohnT> if you go to a motor rewind shop and get a used motor it won't cost much.
[00:05:23] <SWPadnos> Gamma-X, as always, it depends on where you buy the parts, and how big a converter you make
[00:05:30] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT im keepin my crusader cause I found out i can dnc, im gunna setup a wireless dnc wich i might add that SWPadnos was correct that the drivers come with the adapter card
[00:05:38] <SWPadnos> :P
[00:05:40] <SWPadnos> :)
[00:05:44] <BigJohnT> the potential relay from graingers is $25
[00:05:45] <Gamma-X> thanks
[00:05:58] <BigJohnT> cool
[00:06:13] <SWPadnos> if you don't have any parts to start with, I'd expect to spend $200 or so by the time you're done
[00:06:18] <BigJohnT> the rest is a starter and some caps
[00:06:47] <BigJohnT> I bought a 15 hp heavy cast iron frame motor for $50
[00:06:56] <SWPadnos> you need an enclosure, motor, contactor, buttons (mine has illuminated start and e-stop switches), then the caps, a time delay relay if you want "self-start", etc
[00:06:57] <BigJohnT> The older heavy motors are the best
[00:07:00] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos so for another 100 should I jsut buy one or buy a 3 phase?
[00:07:09] <robin_sz> dont forget to buy decent belts too
[00:07:19] <robin_sz> and some grip stick
[00:07:26] <BigJohnT> for your pants robin
[00:07:27] <SWPadnos> don't need any belts for a phase converter
[00:07:30] <eric_U> BigJohnT: http://www.beyondlogic.org/spp/parallel.htm
[00:07:57] <robin_sz> oh, are you not running it from the over head shafting, with leather belts to drive the generator?
[00:08:05] <BigJohnT> eric_U: thanks
[00:08:15] <SWPadnos> oh, I also put NEMA outlets on mine, for smaller 3-phase equipment, so those are another $20 or so each
[00:08:34] <eric_U> pin 1 is inverted
[00:08:48] <eric_U> but it is in/out
[00:08:54] <SWPadnos> and just the power cord for it is $25 or so (15 or 20 feet of SOOW 10/3 cable)
[00:08:56] <robin_sz> * robin_sz just buys nice VFD's
[00:09:07] <SWPadnos> that doesn't work when you're powering the whole mill
[00:09:11] <SWPadnos> and controls ...
[00:09:16] <SWPadnos> for a motor, it's great though
[00:09:20] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT so for another 100 should I jsut buy one or buy a 3 phase?
[00:09:21] <BigJohnT> eric_U: is the in/out the problem
[00:09:21] <eric_U> I seem to collect power cables
[00:09:39] <robin_sz> rare for the controls to be three phase
[00:09:41] <eric_U> BigJohnT: are you using as in or out?
[00:09:54] <BigJohnT> gamma just depends on how well you scrounge
[00:10:00] <robin_sz> usually, they just sit across one phase
[00:10:01] <eric_U> could still be wired as 3 phase
[00:10:02] <BigJohnT> eric_U: and out
[00:10:10] <SWPadnos> some CNCs have a single 3-phase input which ends up powering the spindle, servos, and controls
[00:10:17] <robin_sz> yep
[00:10:28] <SWPadnos> and if you want to leave that as is, a VFD is no good, but a phse converter is good
[00:10:30] <SWPadnos> phase
[00:10:38] <eric_U> BigJohnT: the way I'm reading it, you need to write 1 to get 0
[00:10:45] <robin_sz> but only the spindle is usallu 3phase, at least on small/medium sized mills
[00:10:47] <SWPadnos> eric_U - not with the HAL driver
[00:11:00] <SWPadnos> it does the inversions for you, so outputting a 1 means the line goes high
[00:11:06] <SWPadnos> (a 1 to the HAL pin)
[00:11:12] <dmess> K ... thats how it was in the place i served my prototype makers apprenticeship.... Magna.. a LITTLE canadian-german company...
[00:11:15] <robin_sz> I just cant bring myself to recommend 20th century technology in the 21st century .. no, make that 19th century
[00:11:47] <eric_U> SWP: so what you're saying is that BJT is a screwup?
[00:11:55] <SWPadnos> ?
[00:12:00] <eric_U> that's not very nice
[00:12:04] <BigJohnT> I tried it both ways and with a test led on the pin it came on but very weak
[00:12:18] <SWPadnos> ah - BJT, not BJT :)
[00:12:27] <SWPadnos> I didn't recall talking about transistors ;)
[00:12:54] <SWPadnos> BigJohnT, sounds like you have a weak parport
[00:12:55] <robin_sz> admittedly, some of the larger servo drives ar 3 phase, but most mills of that size are too big for a single phase convertor anyway
[00:13:21] <eric_U> BigJohnT: you probably want to set it up so active low turns on your led
[00:13:46] <BigJohnT> eric, I've set it both ways with the same result
[00:13:53] <SWPadnos> if you look at it with a scope/meter, with the BOB not connected, what do you see?
[00:13:53] <robin_sz> speaking of which, I got a gorgeous little 1hp single->3phase VFD on ebay the other day for £49, brand new in a box
[00:14:13] <robin_sz> dont actually have a use for it, but it looked cute :)
[00:14:21] <SWPadnos> sounds about like my Mitsubishi, except that mine is 2 HP (and was $130, delivered)
[00:14:23] <eric_U> I've found my life was hard without a ttl chip in there
[00:14:33] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[00:14:35] <BigJohnT> I have the same problem with pins 8, 9, 14 and 16
[00:14:47] <robin_sz> i have a 3hp mitsubishi running the lathe in the shed
[00:15:10] <robin_sz> we've just fitten the lathe at work with one too
[00:15:11] <SWPadnos> disconnect the BOB and look at the voltage swing
[00:15:15] <eric_U> this is after the bob?
[00:15:18] <robin_sz> except thats 3 phase in, 3 phase out
[00:15:23] <BigJohnT> bob?
[00:15:27] <SWPadnos> breakout board
[00:15:35] <eric_U> yeah, stay in the game here :)
[00:15:38] <SWPadnos> "break out board" actually :)
[00:15:52] <BigJohnT> it's off at the moment I just have a 470 ohm resistor and a led to test with
[00:16:08] <eric_U> where are you getting 5v for active low?
[00:16:22] <BigJohnT> bob here means the big orange building that the city built LOL
[00:16:30] <BigJohnT> no eric
[00:17:06] <robin_sz> * robin_sz just got another machine delivered
[00:17:23] <eric_U> as in "no eric, I'm not hooking anything up to 5 v because it would solve my problem" ?
[00:17:36] <robin_sz> and I got pics of it dangling on a crane if anyone cares
[00:17:51] <eric_U> I like to see dangling hardware
[00:17:57] <BigJohnT> i don't see any voltage on pin1 high or low
[00:18:00] <dmess> what Robin???
[00:18:15] <robin_sz> oh, you know what I always buy
[00:18:38] <eric_U> what I'm saying is that if you use pin 1 to pull the diode low, you must have an external 5v to pull the other end high
[00:18:42] <eric_U> or no light
[00:19:08] <BigJohnT> hmmm
[00:19:21] <eric_U> doesn't your bob have 5v input?
[00:19:36] <BigJohnT> yes it has a 5v input
[00:19:47] <BigJohnT> pins 2-7 work fine
[00:20:17] <eric_U> the only part that is confusing is pin 8 and 9
[00:20:44] <eric_U> pin 1, 14, 16,17 are on the same port
[00:21:18] <BigJohnT> 17 works fine
[00:21:33] <SWPadnos> yeah, 8 and 9 are on the data port, and should have the same type of buffers (they're not isolated)
[00:21:51] <SWPadnos> the docs did say that two pins (I forget which) are isolated with high-speed optos
[00:22:10] <SWPadnos> it might have been 15 and 16
[00:22:10] <BigJohnT> on the c1g bob?
[00:22:17] <SWPadnos> yes
[00:22:28] <BigJohnT> let me look
[00:22:33] <eric_U> of course, nowadays the mobo has a big chip
[00:22:44] <eric_U> so you have no idea what they are doing internally
[00:23:00] <SWPadnos> yep - input 15 and output 16 have high speed optos
[00:23:15] <BigJohnT> pin 15 and 16 have high speed optoisolators
[00:23:33] <eric_U> they changed the design since I bought mine, kinda pissed they don't have any info about mine on their site
[00:23:46] <eric_U> and they didn't respond when I asked them about it
[00:24:01] <eric_U> steve stallings pulled the same trick on me
[00:24:28] <eric_U> as soon as I buy a bob, the vendor feels compelled to change the design
[00:24:32] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:24:53] <SWPadnos> that is one thing I don't like abouyt most small companies - they don't generally keep archives of older revisions of things
[00:25:02] <eric_U> silly
[00:25:25] <eric_U> they cnc4pc changed the design quite a bit, have no idea why they kept the part number the same
[00:25:28] <SWPadnos> well, it is a PITA in some ways, and I've been on the small company side before, but I do wish it weren't so widespread
[00:25:29] <BigJohnT> Arturo Duncan said i might have blown buffers but would pin 1 and 2 not be on the same buffer
[00:25:37] <SWPadnos> never know
[00:25:46] <eric_U> 1 and 2 are not on the same buffer
[00:25:47] <robin_sz> ok, photo uplodaed :)
[00:25:50] <robin_sz> ready?
[00:25:51] <robin_sz> http://www.redpoint.org.uk/photos/upload/misc/01012007266.jpg
[00:26:01] <SWPadnos> tiny
[00:26:10] <robin_sz> now, thats a REAL crane :)
[00:26:18] <eric_U> nice, but it's going over
[00:26:43] <robin_sz> :)
[00:27:00] <eric_U> is that h-shaped thing welded together?
[00:27:06] <robin_sz> yeah
[00:27:12] <BigJohnT> spreader beams
[00:27:16] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[00:27:26] <BigJohnT> not much of a crane
[00:27:33] <robin_sz> the lump is a a bit over 8 tonnes
[00:27:46] <robin_sz> the crane is 72 tonne-metre
[00:27:50] <eric_U> that thing is smaller than the last forklift I rented
[00:27:57] <BigJohnT> you should pluck a 14 pass wire drawing machine out of a container
[00:28:35] <BigJohnT> it took a 250 ton crane with the boom standing almost straight up
[00:28:38] <robin_sz> was a bit dubious about the lifting frame, but it held up
[00:28:38] <eric_U> is that a router?
[00:28:43] <robin_sz> laser
[00:28:52] <robin_sz> I always buy lasers :)
[00:29:08] <eric_U> I prefer waterjets
[00:29:15] <robin_sz> they have their uses
[00:29:25] <BigJohnT> I guess they didn't cypher the cg quite right...
[00:29:31] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[00:29:37] <robin_sz> had to take a guess
[00:29:46] <BigJohnT> gotta start somewhere
[00:30:01] <robin_sz> manufactuer was less than helpful
[00:30:10] <eric_U> but since this is the second lift, they guessed they din't care that much
[00:30:32] <robin_sz> they "couldnt find" the drawing for the lift beam ...
[00:30:45] <robin_sz> this, rom a company that has drawings of screws and cable ties
[00:30:51] <BigJohnT> didn't "want" to most likely
[00:30:56] <robin_sz> exactly
[00:31:04] <BigJohnT> no profit in it for them
[00:31:10] <eric_U> used machine, no support
[00:31:33] <robin_sz> mmm, bascically, they let a certain company do all their 2nd user trade ...
[00:31:36] <BigJohnT> we support our machinery no matter who owns it
[00:31:46] <robin_sz> he was selling a machine to where this was coming out of ..
[00:32:04] <robin_sz> he was going to rent (for good money) a lift beam to us
[00:32:08] <robin_sz> his deal fell through
[00:32:20] <robin_sz> the beam was suddenly "busy" ..
[00:32:23] <eric_U> someone suggested once suggested I buy something expensive from Centroid, but I never will since they wouldn't help me with my personal piece of centroid equipment
[00:32:24] <robin_sz> with 2 days notice
[00:32:30] <BigJohnT> any one use parallel port cards
[00:32:42] <eric_U> lots of people do
[00:32:47] <robin_sz> * robin_sz does
[00:32:48] <eric_U> you mean pci
[00:32:53] <BigJohnT> yep
[00:33:01] <BigJohnT> any favorite places to get them
[00:33:01] <robin_sz> buy em cheap on ebay
[00:33:07] <robin_sz> $5 each, new
[00:33:25] <eric_U> I think newegg has some too
[00:33:28] <robin_sz> got 10 or so on a shelf somewhere
[00:33:41] <eric_U> never know when you might need one
[00:33:51] <robin_sz> every now and then, they crap up, just throw another one in
[00:34:11] <eric_U> I have one, don't know if it works though
[00:34:15] <BigJohnT> I'm sure I have one around here somewhere but it is easier to buy one
[00:34:29] <robin_sz> zackly
[00:34:47] <eric_U> I win, I know where mine is
[00:35:34] <eric_U> robin_sz: that thing rack and pinion drive?
[00:35:35] <robin_sz> BigJohnT, and on old 2nd user machinesm they sell loads of spares, and they admit they make more money on parts and consumables a year than they do on new machine sales, you'd think theyd be keen to see em going into places
[00:35:44] <robin_sz> eric_U, yes, yes it is
[00:36:01] <robin_sz> very high quality
[00:36:24] <BigJohnT> some folks are funny about that
[00:36:26] <robin_sz> these thinks were like £300K new
[00:36:34] <BigJohnT> some are just plain hard to deal with
[00:36:44] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[00:36:46] <BigJohnT> pounds?
[00:36:54] <robin_sz> yep
[00:37:06] <eric_U> I don't think he would convert to the American Peso just for us
[00:37:12] <BigJohnT> thats a bunch of $ then
[00:37:17] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[00:37:50] <robin_sz> is the us dollar still traded?
[00:37:57] <eric_U> don't think so
[00:38:17] <robin_sz> I thought they suspended it when it grew too many trailing zeros?
[00:38:25] <BigJohnT> how about the pesado?
[00:38:37] <robin_sz> dollardo?
[00:38:42] <eric_U> it's a pain on ebay, some guy from europe spends his pocket change and outbids everybody
[00:39:15] <robin_sz> well, yes, true, but even then its a bargain :)
[00:39:48] <BigJohnT> parallel port cards are $3.99 on ebay
[00:40:04] <BigJohnT> shipping is $8
[00:42:53] <Karl1> dinner calls!
[00:43:31] <BigJohnT> yea, I need to go wrap my wifes deer skinning knife
[00:43:39] <dmess> euro and canuck buck RULE
[00:43:44] <BigJohnT> with a gut hook
[00:44:00] <dmess> youDOG
[00:44:27] <BigJohnT> all I got to buy here is cammo and bullets and you'd think I got her diamonds
[00:44:33] <BigJohnT> her
[00:45:27] <BigJohnT> A couple of boxes of .243 or 20ga turkey loads and she is good for a birthday
[00:45:36] <dmess> COOL.. doe's SHE have a sister... LOL.. seems to be a theme to this thread... LOL
[00:46:06] <BigJohnT> she is an only child but her mother lives here with us
[00:46:28] <dmess> I'm trolling with live bait.. i guess.. LOL
[00:46:39] <BigJohnT> LOL
[00:47:02] <dmess> thx for the offer on the mom but i digress....
[00:47:32] <BigJohnT> she is too independent for a husband
[00:47:43] <BigJohnT> she does like to clean a lot
[00:48:10] <BigJohnT> well I just ordered 2 parallel port cards for $7.98
[00:48:14] <dmess> i dont mind that...LOL
[00:49:12] <dmess> i have 1 or 2 of those.... im a pack rat
[00:49:21] <BigJohnT> what other bob's do EMC users use besides the CNC4PC
[00:51:25] <BigJohnT> I'm a stack rat... it's up to the ceiling
[01:11:02] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT sorry i was eatin dinner should I buy a new one or make it? Its a 3hp
[01:11:37] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC is stuffed like the Christmas ham he just ate =)
[01:12:17] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC has to work on Dec 25, so is celebrating Christmas today, so... MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY!!!
[01:12:53] <Gamma-X> MErry christmas JymmmEMC
[01:13:53] <JymmmEMC> Gamma-X: Thank ya =)
[01:15:09] <Gamma-X> http://images.machineryvalues.com/pict/140765f.jpg
[01:15:18] <Gamma-X> whats the purpose of the what looks like 2 motors
[01:15:53] <JymmmEMC> one looks like the spindle motore (grey_ and the other being the Z axis
[01:16:08] <Gamma-X> JymmmEMC nope z is on a servo
[01:16:09] <JymmmEMC> or maybe automatic drawbar
[01:16:10] <Gamma-X> on the side
[01:16:13] <Gamma-X> ahhh
[01:16:15] <Gamma-X> thats what it is
[01:16:17] <Gamma-X> ok thanks
[01:38:40] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT u alive?
[01:42:30] <tomp2> i have a lot of text files to edit, but they're in a . folders, how do you get gnome/ubuntu/linux to allow opening . folders in say gedit or kate?
[01:43:00] <SWPadnos> view / show hidden files
[01:43:05] <SWPadnos> in the file browser
[01:43:30] <tomp2> the file chooser doesnt have that option in gedit/kate as far as i know
[01:44:00] <SWPadnos> hmmm. you may need to make the choice in a nautilus browser - it may carry over
[01:44:14] <tomp2> thx
[01:46:25] <tomp2> ah, it's under the 'wrench' icon in kate, thx :-)
[01:46:39] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:51:44] <robin_sz> BigJohnT: .243? pah, I wouldn;t date any girl who used such a wimpy calibre ;)
[01:53:51] <robin_sz> if they can't shoulder a .380 win mag ...
[02:04:14] <Gamma-X> i wanna sell my shot gun
[02:08:38] <Gamma-X> how would u know how many amps a cnc machine takes by lookin at its stats?
[02:09:21] <SWPadnos> look at the ratings plate near the power input
[02:09:42] <SWPadnos> it should show a few different numbers, one of which is the max current @ some voltage (and number of phases)
[02:10:51] <Gamma-X> ok
[02:11:34] <Gamma-X> im lookin at amps right?
[02:17:56] <SWPadnos> well, you did ask about amps ...
[02:20:03] <Gamma-X> wow
[02:20:08] <Gamma-X> ive been up for a while sorry lol
[02:20:12] <Gamma-X> this proves im an idiot
[02:20:14] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:20:28] <Gamma-X> ok uhhhh any thoughts on this? http://stores.phoenixphaseconverters.com/Detail.bok?no=14
[02:21:44] <SWPadnos> nope - never used them
[02:21:48] <tomp2> any suggestions for an email client under w$ (xp )
[02:22:03] <SWPadnos> tomp2, mozilla or thunderbird
[02:22:20] <tomp2> reat, she has ffox on it
[02:22:23] <tomp2> great
[02:22:44] <SWPadnos> you can even move email files between Windows and Linux, if you're a little bit careful
[02:25:36] <tomp2> yeh :) i just brought a bunch of python files over to it, just to find no crlf's doh!
[02:29:17] <fenn> Gamma-X: that's not a real three phase converter.. it just uses split phase and loads down one side with a bunch of capacitors so you get sorta "two thirds phase"
[02:30:10] <fenn> ok for running a motor at ~1/2 power
[02:30:49] <Gamma-X> ok...
[02:30:55] <Gamma-X> so a rotary it is i guess
[02:31:12] <Gamma-X> how does the rotary actualy make the third hase though?
[02:31:16] <Gamma-X> fenn u ever make one?
[02:31:50] <fenn> nope
[02:31:52] <robin_sz> A friend of mine had one
[02:31:58] <robin_sz> but it was a pain
[02:32:07] <robin_sz> keeping the boiler up to pressure was hard
[02:32:22] <fenn> Gamma-X: spin a 3 phase motor and you get 3 phase power out.. all motors work like generators
[02:32:36] <fenn> (some better than others)
[02:33:05] <fenn> robin_sz: use a flash boiler.. keep up with the times, man!
[02:33:14] <robin_sz> or horses?
[02:33:49] <robin_sz> surely horse turning a big capstan, geared to drive this motor would work too?
[02:33:49] <fenn> robin_sz: i suppose you dont use 50/60 Hz mains either
[02:34:16] <robin_sz> I use VFD's, I find all this talk of rotary convertors very 1890's
[02:34:31] <fenn> 60Hz AC is very 1890's also
[02:34:45] <robin_sz> 50hz here
[02:34:47] <Gamma-X> robin_sz which vfd u usin?
[02:34:48] <fenn> whatever
[02:35:05] <fenn> the point, is that your fancy VFD uses 1890's technology
[02:35:09] <robin_sz> Gamma-X, varous Mitsubishi, Hitachi ...
[02:35:16] <Gamma-X> got one for sale! lol
[02:35:44] <robin_sz> we even put one on our 3phase lathe and we have 3 phase power we like em that much ;)
[02:36:10] <Gamma-X> why do u like them so much?
[02:36:14] <fenn> why not get a real AC servo
[02:36:25] <robin_sz> for a lathe capstan?
[02:36:36] <robin_sz> spindle even
[02:36:43] <fenn> oh, but you're going to splurge and put a vfd on it
[02:36:56] <robin_sz> already have
[02:37:14] <robin_sz> smooth starts
[02:37:16] <robin_sz> vari speed
[02:37:20] <robin_sz> reversing ..
[02:37:32] <robin_sz> fast stops, with DC injection braking
[02:38:03] <toastydeath> hydraulic brake caliper with a 18" rotor
[02:38:09] <Gamma-X> robin_sz would it be worth it for me to have if I have an old outdated controller with a manual speed control on my machine?
[02:38:13] <toastydeath> stops the spindle so fast the part comes out
[02:38:59] <toastydeath> that is my entry for this "my penis is bigger than yours" contest!
[02:39:24] <Gamma-X> lol
[02:39:27] <robin_sz> Gamma-X: I would recommend them on almost anything above a small 1/2hp drill
[02:39:45] <robin_sz> great on lathes, even if you already have 3p
[02:39:59] <Gamma-X> robin_sz well i wont realy be able to use it to full pottential cause of my outdated controller correct?
[02:40:04] <robin_sz> and great on up to arounf 5hp if you have only 1p
[02:40:24] <robin_sz> Gamma-X: but you need to drive a 3p machine off single phase?
[02:40:54] <Gamma-X> yes
[02:40:54] <robin_sz> yes or no?
[02:40:57] <robin_sz> right
[02:41:01] <Gamma-X> a 3 hp 3 phase
[02:41:02] <Gamma-X> 230 v
[02:41:05] <robin_sz> and the spindle is 3phase
[02:41:24] <robin_sz> the controller is single phase ..
[02:41:30] <Gamma-X> correct
[02:41:37] <robin_sz> stick the spindle on a VFD
[02:41:57] <robin_sz> let the controller turn the spindle on/off
[02:42:21] <robin_sz> run the controller off the single phase
[02:42:27] <robin_sz> job done
[02:42:37] <robin_sz> $150 shoud do it
[02:42:48] <Gamma-X> where do u see one for 150 lol
[02:42:52] <robin_sz> ebay
[02:42:54] <robin_sz> all the time
[02:43:12] <robin_sz> had several for that sort of money
[02:43:46] <robin_sz> I presume the motor is wired 230 star?
[02:44:20] <fenn> Gamma-X: you got a lot to learn, and the best way to start, is to stop saying "lol" so people will take you seriously
[02:44:41] <robin_sz> just need to conenct it 230 delta for a 230V mains into the VFD
[02:45:12] <robin_sz> hey fenn, did you see my machine pic earlier?
[02:45:16] <Gamma-X> lol
[02:45:29] <fenn> yeah, i dont think i'd trust my welds that much :)
[02:45:36] <robin_sz> heh :)
[02:45:40] <robin_sz> my guys are all coded
[02:45:45] <Gamma-X> robin_sz when u say delta ur reffering to?
[02:45:58] <robin_sz> motor winding configuration
[02:46:04] <robin_sz> go google
[02:47:07] <robin_sz> http://www.patchn.com/stadel_1.gif
[02:47:24] <Gamma-X> robin_sz http://images.machineryvalues.com/pict/140765wa.jpg
[02:48:30] <Gamma-X> that help at all?
[02:49:54] <robin_sz> thats 440 star, 220 delta?
[02:50:59] <Gamma-X> 220 delta
[02:51:51] <Gamma-X> if anything else ran off of the vfd such as power to servos would it mess anything up? or should I put a vfd between the power supply and the spindle
[02:52:06] <robin_sz> VFD just to the spindle
[02:52:16] <robin_sz> presumably the servos are single phase?
[02:52:38] <Gamma-X> as far as I know yes. but i cant confirm this till saturday
[02:52:46] <robin_sz> you shold be able to power them just fine off the single phase ...
[02:53:00] <robin_sz> get the whole machine apart from the spindle up and runing off your plug
[02:53:10] <robin_sz> then just chuck a VFD in
[02:53:38] <robin_sz> they reduce/elimate the start up surge on the spindle too, can be very hand in domestic situations
[02:54:10] <Gamma-X> ahhh verry nice
[02:54:17] <Gamma-X> do they use a lot more electric?
[02:55:47] <robin_sz> less
[02:55:51] <robin_sz> well,
[02:56:00] <robin_sz> let me rephrase that
[02:56:06] <robin_sz> they use almsot the same ...
[02:56:12] <robin_sz> they are like 98% efficient
[02:56:22] <robin_sz> but .. at startup
[02:56:31] <Gamma-X> wow
[02:56:41] <robin_sz> where a 3p sindle direct start might pull 3 times the rated current
[02:56:47] <Gamma-X> have u ever had one die on ya?
[02:56:50] <robin_sz> nope
[02:57:01] <robin_sz> a VFD will smoothly start the spindle
[02:57:11] <robin_sz> and pull nice gentle current
[02:57:20] <robin_sz> let me put it another way ...
[02:57:31] <robin_sz> a freind who runs a fairground ride ...
[02:57:35] <fenn> vfd will generally be more efficient right?
[02:57:43] <robin_sz> used to take a bloody great 3p generator
[02:57:52] <Gamma-X> ok
[02:57:59] <robin_sz> running only needed a bit ..
[02:58:06] <robin_sz> but start up needed massive currents
[02:58:13] <robin_sz> now he uses a VFD
[02:58:20] <Gamma-X> same with thise motors
[02:58:23] <robin_sz> and a 5hp single phases diesel
[02:58:34] <fenn> er, more efficient than 3 phase mains i mean (yes no maybe?)
[03:06:28] <Gamma-X> robin_sz thanks a lot.
[03:06:31] <Gamma-X> c everyone tomorow
[03:06:33] <Gamma-X> -Later
[04:04:49] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WCrqqoZkPg
[04:10:16] <tomp2> cradek: congrats, thats very nice
[04:18:01] <eric_U> really, really nice
[04:20:09] <cradek> I have to make clamps for the C table, then I can cut something
[04:22:06] <cradek> and I guess I have to figure out how to measure the B pivot length and make some kind of fixture for measuring tool lengths
[04:22:23] <cradek> you can see my adjustable-length test tool :-)
[04:39:10] <JymmmEMC> http://www.gagfilms.com/Carbatteryhack.html
[04:42:27] <fenn> * fenn prepares to be underwhelmed
[04:43:08] <JymmmEMC> ROTFLMAO http://www.metacafe.com/watch/954946/funny_girl_farting/
[11:32:05] <BigJohnT> From Ubuntu how do you tell the address of your parallel port? I've looked in the device manager but it does not tell much.
[12:38:35] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: parport card?
[12:39:00] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?NetMos
[12:39:42] <BigJohnT> alex yes
[12:44:08] <BigJohnT> alex thanks
[12:54:10] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[16:37:45] <lewin1> lewin1 is now known as lewing_
[17:02:49] <ALS> cradek: what type mods did you use on that max nc head to give you that 4th axis cog belt?
[17:03:44] <ALS> just thought it pretty slick
[17:07:10] <skunkworks_> rotory tables
[17:07:51] <ALS> 5th then
[17:08:09] <alex_joni> both
[17:08:13] <jepler> I think they're both modified rotary tables similar to http://sherline.com/3700inst.htm
[17:08:16] <skunkworks_> heh - rotory tables. (both the 4th and 5th axis are rotory tables)
[17:08:46] <ALS> mounted to the slide of the z axia
[17:08:49] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: don't blame him, you're full of typos usually :)
[17:09:30] <skunkworks_> Sorry.. I am also pretty slow on the uptake.
[17:09:55] <skunkworks_> I blame the big dinner
[17:10:00] <alex_joni> heh
[17:10:04] <alex_joni> dinner?
[17:10:15] <cradek> yes they are both the 4" sherline rotary table with motors added
[17:10:16] <skunkworks_> we had a catered meal here at work
[17:10:29] <skunkworks_> wow - I forget how small that is..
[17:10:55] <skunkworks_> it look like it is 8 inches or more in the video
[17:10:55] <archivist> I want to know the angular accuracy of some of the rotary tables (some stuff Ive used is not up to gear cutting work)
[17:13:18] <skunkworks_> I guess the penny is pretty big
[17:13:32] <ALS> gama x was talking yesterday about tool length probes I use to run mazak vmc's and you could load the tool belt and measure say ten tools at time it would load the and measure them upsate the tool table,set time savings huge
[17:14:16] <ALS> setup
[17:16:17] <skunkworks_> ALS: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/PICT0081.JPG
[17:18:30] <ALS> that's one of the better pics of it I have seen thanks
[17:18:55] <ALS> the vidio was grainy for me
[17:19:46] <cradek> I am not well known for my video taking skills
[17:20:05] <skunkworks_> als: have you seen this one? http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=382817#post382817
[17:20:05] <ALS> nice job though
[17:20:09] <cradek> but mostly I have a lighting problem since it's always after dark
[17:21:09] <ALS> yes I have
[17:21:51] <skunkworks_> and this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WCrqqoZkPg&eurl=http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=382817
[17:22:12] <skunkworks_> oops. never mind - it is on that post..
[17:23:30] <archivist> cradek, it would be interesting for me if you fancy an experiment, to cut a 150T or more 3"dia at least gear and measue the tooth pitch vatiation (digital guessing stick over x teeth)
[17:23:52] <ALS> trying to do the same thing with a two axis rotary table
[17:24:08] <skunkworks_> trunion?
[17:24:11] <archivist> it shows up the table worm gear error
[17:25:16] <ALS> dev one
[17:26:16] <jepler> what is a "digital guessing stick"?
[17:26:25] <archivist> vernier
[17:26:44] <ALS> low battery
[17:27:53] <archivist> set to 0 on x number of teeth and repeat around the wheel, you get a cyclic error from the dividing head worm
[17:29:15] <ALS> scratching my head for a better way
[17:30:27] <archivist> its whats bugging me about doing a cnc gear cutter
[17:30:53] <cradek> why would cnc make your dividing head any worse?
[17:31:04] <archivist> it doesnt
[17:31:16] <cradek> then I don't understand
[17:31:22] <alex_joni> unless you use comp
[17:31:27] <alex_joni> then you can make it better
[17:31:30] <ALS> what about encoder's
[17:31:31] <cradek> also, you could use leadscrew compensation - all you have to do is measure it
[17:31:35] <cradek> "all"
[17:31:44] <alex_joni> ALS: where would you fit the encoder?
[17:32:04] <ALS> good?
[17:32:05] <alex_joni> hmm.. you "could" gear the side of the rotary itself
[17:32:16] <alex_joni> and attach the encoder with a matching gear to that :)
[17:32:29] <cradek> yes at least temporarily, to measure it
[17:32:33] <cradek> you could rig something.
[17:32:35] <alex_joni> right
[17:32:51] <alex_joni> maybe even plastic roller on the encoder
[17:32:51] <cradek> sounds challenging though.
[17:33:08] <ALS> i was thinking cog belt
[17:33:10] <alex_joni> something flexible, with enough pressure & friction
[17:33:13] <archivist> I measured all the worm dividing heads here and borrowed one as well, only one was up to doing high count wheels
[17:33:45] <cradek> you found it's periodic error in the worm itself?
[17:33:49] <archivist> yes
[17:33:56] <cradek> can you measure it accurately?
[17:34:14] <archivist> yes using optical angle dekkor
[17:34:38] <cradek> you could fit a periodic curve to your data points to express the error. after that it's a very simple software solution
[17:34:40] <alex_joni> archivist: if you can write a compensation table then you can correct this in software
[17:34:41] <archivist> but only at 8 points in a circle
[17:35:02] <fenn> alex_joni: you want something hard, so it won't deform, but still give frictional force
[17:35:16] <alex_joni> fenn: right, that's what I was trying to say
[17:35:29] <alex_joni> plastic not rubber
[17:35:41] <fenn> carbide i was thinking
[17:35:43] <cradek> the error function has a period equal to one turn of the worm - a few degrees
[17:35:43] <alex_joni> maybe very tough rubber
[17:36:12] <skunkworks_> At the moment - isn't the current lead screw comp limit 255 points?
[17:36:22] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: SMOP
[17:36:27] <skunkworks_> How does that work with a rotory device (when it wraps arout)
[17:36:28] <archivist> cradek but its a sawtooth error as the worm rotates and the next one engages
[17:36:31] <skunkworks_> around
[17:36:51] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: err :)
[17:36:51] <cradek> you wouldn't want to use leadscrew comp because the error is periodic and the joint doesn't have 'endpoints'
[17:37:09] <alex_joni> you can use kins though
[17:37:27] <cradek> archivist: but whatever it is, if you can measure it and it's periodic, you can compensate in software
[17:37:37] <cradek> yes kins is the obvious place
[17:37:42] <cradek> (if using EMC)
[17:37:46] <fenn> i think a stacked kins module architecture is looking better all the time
[17:38:26] <alex_joni> kins with HAL pins :)
[17:38:30] <fenn> yes
[17:38:49] <fenn> forward and inverse
[17:38:53] <alex_joni> then you can run them through ddt blocks and limits & all kinds of crazy things
[17:39:24] <archivist> cradek, I mentioned it as a method where you can test your setup as well
[17:39:34] <alex_joni> * alex_joni has fever as an excuse for this talk
[17:39:39] <fenn> bah
[17:39:58] <alex_joni> fenn: when I sober up, I might not agree with myself
[17:40:01] <ALS> emc fever ?
[17:40:22] <alex_joni> ALS: plain old boring regular fever
[17:40:54] <ALS> I cought one myself thanks
[17:41:26] <alex_joni> yuck
[17:41:43] <ALS> no it's emc fever
[17:42:08] <archivist> * archivist leans back from the monitor in case he catches somthing
[17:42:57] <fenn> as long as the kins functions get added to the hal thread in the right order, it would be the same as if it were all in one C file (i think?)
[17:43:49] <fenn> and joint limits dont get reckoned yet anyway, so i can safely put that issue off til later
[17:44:23] <alex_joni> it would add one period of delay I think
[17:44:44] <fenn> no, the functions get executed sequentially in the same period
[17:45:00] <alex_joni> that means you need to split the motion controller
[17:45:09] <alex_joni> into more than one function
[17:45:19] <alex_joni> and put the kins function somewhere in the middle
[17:46:39] <fenn> there are already two functions...
[17:46:52] <fenn> motion-command-handler and motion-controller
[17:48:55] <fenn> function order seems like a place where we could help the user out a bit more (with code, not tech support)
[17:49:35] <fenn> i havent thought it out much, but it seems like some functions always come before/after others, and there should be a way to express that
[17:56:14] <alex_joni> xml schema
[17:57:59] <anonimasu> -_-
[18:03:56] <fenn> eh, why not
[18:05:40] <archivist> its "fun" writing xml readers
[18:07:51] <anonimasu> archivist: good point
[18:08:01] <archivist> I parse the mysql xml docs for the bot in #mysql
[18:09:30] <alex_joni> don't you get bored sometimes?
[18:09:51] <archivist> at this day job yes
[18:09:53] <alex_joni> wonder how it feels to be employed by a abot
[18:09:58] <alex_joni> wonder how it feels to be employed by a bot
[18:10:43] <anonimasu> anna the bot
[18:10:49] <anonimasu> *chuckles*
[18:11:02] <alex_joni> huh?
[18:11:33] <alex_joni> anonimasu: that's not fair.. it's swedish
[18:11:43] <alex_joni> how were we supposed to know that song?
[18:12:23] <ALS> BigJohnT:I've been wondering about your plasma cutter 400 ipm, how fast can you cut with a plasma cutter? thickness dependant
[18:13:20] <BigJohnT> ALS: yes it is thickness dependent I really need 500 IPM for the thinnest materials
[18:13:28] <alex_joni> ALS: depends on the cutting current
[18:13:57] <alex_joni> there are cutting machines with 2-300Amps (quite expensive), which can cut quite fast
[18:14:03] <BigJohnT> Yes, you have to set the current and speed for each type and thickness of material
[18:15:04] <BigJohnT> mine is a small one only cuts 3/4"
[18:15:24] <ALS> a freind and I plan to build one soon for racecar parts
[18:16:57] <ALS> what type of sfp/m
[18:18:43] <alex_joni> ALS: what sheet thickness are you interested in?
[18:19:09] <ALS> looking for an example?
[18:19:43] <ALS> never ran a cnc plasma cutter
[18:19:58] <BigJohnT> LOL neither have I
[18:20:19] <alex_joni> I've cut only thicker stuff
[18:20:25] <alex_joni> 10-20mm
[18:20:37] <ALS> metric?
[18:20:42] <alex_joni> yeah
[18:20:49] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is in europe :P
[18:21:07] <ALS> here in us mostly un converted
[18:21:08] <BigJohnT> done a lot of manual plasma cutting and it sucks
[18:21:29] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: it's tricky to keep the feed constant
[18:21:35] <ALS> I here that
[18:21:43] <BigJohnT> why is that
[18:21:59] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: you need a constant speed in order to get constant cuts
[18:22:13] <alex_joni> if you slow down it overheats, and the cut area gets wider
[18:22:35] <alex_joni> it's a bit easier on thicker stuff.. there you can look at the flame that comes out underneath
[18:22:44] <alex_joni> the ideal angle is about 45 degrees
[18:22:54] <alex_joni> if it comes out straight down, you're too slow
[18:22:56] <BigJohnT> you mean by hand not cnc
[18:23:08] <alex_joni> by hand it's tricky
[18:23:12] <alex_joni> cnc is nice :)
[18:23:14] <BigJohnT> yes it is
[18:23:15] <ALS> poss or neg
[18:23:26] <alex_joni> ALS: behind
[18:23:46] <alex_joni> so if you're going left, it should be to the bottom right
[18:23:55] <BigJohnT> I 99.9% of the time use guides of some sort and look under the material
[18:23:55] <ALS> ok
[18:24:21] <BigJohnT> X axis is almost done on my CNC plasma
[18:24:52] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: I'd use feedhold from the arc-stable
[18:24:54] <Gamma-X> whats up big john
[18:25:02] <alex_joni> not M66
[18:25:04] <ALS> you get the parport squared
[18:25:08] <BigJohnT> hi gamma
[18:25:23] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT i think im buyin a vfd
[18:25:26] <BigJohnT> Ok alex I'll look into that this evening
[18:25:32] <BigJohnT> cool gamma
[18:25:38] <alex_joni> make an and2
[18:25:47] <alex_joni> commanded plasma-on and feedback arc-is-on
[18:26:05] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT what kinda amps do u think that would pull
[18:26:15] <alex_joni> that has the advantage that it will stop as soon as the plasma arc turns off during a cut
[18:26:23] <alex_joni> maybe lack of compressed air or whatever
[18:26:47] <BigJohnT> Thanks alex yea if you run low on air the arc quits
[18:26:54] <BigJohnT> gamma what is that?
[18:27:14] <alex_joni> Gamma-X: depends on the rating
[18:27:18] <alex_joni> and on the motor
[18:27:22] <Gamma-X> the supermax ycm- 18
[18:27:40] <BigJohnT> how many hp is the spindle motor
[18:27:47] <Gamma-X> 3
[18:27:50] <alex_joni> SPINDLE MOTOR .A.C.3 HP
[18:27:54] <Gamma-X> but i want for the whole machine
[18:28:31] <anonimasu> Gamma-X: wake up
[18:28:34] <ALS> don't need for the whole machine
[18:28:42] <Gamma-X> one seck lol
[18:28:45] <BigJohnT> you may find when you get the machine that the only thing that is 3 phase is the spindle
[18:28:58] <alex_joni> 3HP =~ 2.24 kW
[18:29:02] <BigJohnT> and 3 hp is 10 amps at 220 v single phase
[18:29:10] <Gamma-X> ok
[18:29:28] <BigJohnT> gamma do you want the phone number for Anilam?
[18:29:30] <alex_joni> 9.09A to be exact
[18:29:45] <Gamma-X> well im mkain sure that the wiring to my garage is enough amps
[18:29:46] <alex_joni> http://www.macgen.com/calcul.html <- helpful :)
[18:29:48] <Gamma-X> 10 guage i think.
[18:29:54] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT
[18:30:12] <BigJohnT> 14 ga is rated for 15 amps
[18:30:22] <Gamma-X> whats 10 guage
[18:30:30] <BigJohnT> 30 amps
[18:30:30] <Gamma-X> i mean
[18:30:32] <Gamma-X> rated for
[18:30:50] <BigJohnT> less than 200 feet
[18:30:59] <alex_joni> copper?
[18:31:13] <BigJohnT> yes copper
[18:31:13] <Gamma-X> what does the whole machine call for?
[18:31:16] <Gamma-X> i need itt o be code.
[18:31:30] <alex_joni> 33Amps for cable
[18:31:36] <alex_joni> 55Amps for open air
[18:31:47] <alex_joni> but I guess you don't have that
[18:31:47] <anonimasu> also, keep in mind that the rating is the max..
[18:31:48] <BigJohnT> if your breaker is 15 amps the 14ga is code
[18:31:56] <BigJohnT> 20 amp breaker 12 ga
[18:32:01] <Gamma-X> i9 have 10 guage and a 30 amp.
[18:32:04] <BigJohnT> 30 amp breaker 10 ga
[18:32:13] <BigJohnT> you have it correct
[18:32:20] <Gamma-X> will this power my machine and be code?
[18:32:20] <anonimasu> like if you stall your spindle.
[18:32:35] <alex_joni> anonimasu: most VFD's have current limiting
[18:32:49] <BigJohnT> brb
[18:33:12] <anonimasu> alex_joni: yep
[18:33:15] <Gamma-X> well i want to know how many amps the whole machine will pull. so the breaker can handle it and be up to code
[18:33:39] <ALS> use fuse
[18:34:10] <JymmmEMC> You don't want to push the circuit to it's limits of you don't have to.
[18:34:13] <Gamma-X> well i want to make sure it is up to code that is most important
[18:34:46] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: surely not
[18:34:48] <JymmmEMC> If you need 30A, maybe split it across two 20A circuits.
[18:35:03] <Gamma-X> idk what i need though lol
[18:35:14] <alex_joni> but if he has a 30A circuit, and he needs 9 for the spindle + 4? more for the CNC.. it should be plenty
[18:35:52] <JymmmEMC> and room to spare for startup spikes too
[18:36:08] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: unlikely with vfd's
[18:36:16] <alex_joni> but the room is there
[18:36:17] <alex_joni> :)
[18:36:21] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: murphy's law
[18:36:23] <anonimasu> Gamma-X: the max rating on the vfd is a good bet..
[18:36:39] <anonimasu> and about the max rating for the axes..
[18:36:53] <alex_joni> or put otherwise.. get a VFD with a max rating that's still ok for your setup
[18:36:59] <JymmmEMC> As we all know, once you get the circuit in, start using it, you KNOW you gonna toss something more on it =)
[18:37:02] <alex_joni> (not above 15A or so)
[18:37:24] <BigJohnT> Gamma, the servo system takes almost nothing to run your 30A service is twice what you need
[18:37:56] <Gamma-X> true
[18:38:25] <alex_joni> well.. I said 4A including coolant pump, and fans and light above the work, and and
[18:38:36] <Gamma-X> so is 30 amp breaker enough
[18:39:02] <ALS> you can still run your lathe next to it
[18:39:04] <BigJohnT> yes for two machines
[18:39:27] <anonimasu> Gamma-X: see you need a lathe now ^^
[18:39:46] <alex_joni> but you need 2 smaller breakers on the individual machines
[18:40:39] <ALS> or fuse the indivigual machine's
[18:41:07] <JymmmEMC> ALS: What is this with you and fuses?! Fuses are so 1800's ;)
[18:41:08] <Gamma-X> ok
[18:41:22] <BigJohnT> The Anilam controls are fused at the machine
[18:41:26] <Gamma-X> nice
[18:41:27] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: sometimes they are more reliable
[18:41:34] <JymmmEMC> breakers baby, breakers!
[18:41:43] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: I saw breakers which didn't work..
[18:41:50] <anonimasu> my big mill has like 20 fuses :)
[18:41:53] <ALS> me tooo
[18:41:58] <alex_joni> too much current welded the breaker together
[18:42:07] <alex_joni> then you're fscked
[18:42:09] <anonimasu> and there's a additional one at the power panel...
[18:42:14] <alex_joni> anonimasu: consider yourself lucky
[18:42:16] <anonimasu> well, distribution panel..
[18:42:20] <anonimasu> alex_joni: why?
[18:42:21] <anonimasu> ^^
[18:42:26] <alex_joni> robots I service have way more :)
[18:42:36] <ALS> i like my wiring the way it is thanks
[18:42:37] <anonimasu> for my little mill I plan to live with 10 or so..
[18:42:43] <anonimasu> max.
[18:42:51] <alex_joni> wearing all kinds of shapes and disguises :D
[18:43:00] <anonimasu> haha
[18:43:01] <BigJohnT> gamma when are you getting the mill
[18:43:05] <Gamma-X> tomroow!
[18:43:07] <Gamma-X> yay!
[18:43:12] <BigJohnT> sweet!
[18:43:38] <ALS> you got a good pinch bar
[18:43:47] <anonimasu> pinch bar?
[18:44:22] <ALS> you can pick the corner of the machine with it
[18:44:38] <anonimasu> ah that kind
[18:44:52] <anonimasu> just be careful when moving it and get help :)
[18:45:10] <ALS> moved all of mine with one and some pipe
[18:46:03] <ALS> me and my ten year old
[18:46:52] <anonimasu> ALS: is it the first time you are moving machines?
[18:47:15] <ALS> I got 10 or more
[18:47:20] <anonimasu> ALS: that was the point
[18:47:29] <anonimasu> ALS: obviously you have moved them around a few times
[18:48:06] <ALS> yes I love it /don't get my wife going
[18:48:36] <anonimasu> the point was that everyone dosent have the experience needed to do so their first time
[18:48:40] <anonimasu> especially if it'
[18:48:43] <anonimasu> it's bigger iron :)
[18:49:36] <ALS> that's why I mentioned the pinch bar and pike keep her close to the ground with no hurry
[18:49:45] <ALS> pipe
[18:50:00] <jmkasunich> you just hit the most important thing - "no hurry"
[18:50:09] <jmkasunich> when you hurry is when somebody gets hurt
[18:50:34] <anonimasu> yep
[18:51:19] <ALS> i read on a post some where how someone droped there wells index off the truck
[18:51:36] <alex_joni> ouch :)
[18:52:17] <anonimasu> ouch
[18:52:23] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT i here my machine can do digitizing? How is this possible.
[18:52:30] <ALS> he said it landed on tha ele cab
[18:52:44] <alex_joni> Gamma-X: it usually has a probe instead of a regular tool in the spindle
[18:52:53] <alex_joni> so you move the machine down until it hits something
[18:52:59] <alex_joni> then you move over and repeat
[18:53:11] <alex_joni> after a couple of hours you can make a model of the probed work
[18:53:33] <BigJohnT> like alex said
[18:53:59] <alex_joni> http://axis.unpythonic.net/01194541183
[18:55:50] <alex_joni> hi jmkasunich
[18:55:56] <alex_joni> how's the shoptask?
[18:56:06] <jmkasunich> in pieces at the moment
[18:56:21] <jmkasunich> did a lot of drilling and such to the cabinet yesterday, I _think_ all that is finished now
[18:56:24] <ALS> where's the pic's
[18:56:31] <jmkasunich> started some wiring last night, more today
[18:56:58] <jmkasunich> ALS: you talking to me?
[18:56:58] <alex_joni> ALS: on his site
[18:57:04] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich.com
[18:57:08] <ALS> yea
[19:00:01] <ALS> looks good
[19:05:42] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT but where does the digitizer hook up to the controller?
[19:05:58] <anonimasu> Gamma-X: via the parport..
[19:06:01] <anonimasu> or via the probe input
[19:06:06] <Gamma-X> what is a part port!?! lol
[19:06:19] <anonimasu> if you are using emc you can hook it up however you like..
[19:06:27] <anonimasu> but if you use a comercial controller you have a probe input
[19:06:27] <Gamma-X> no emc
[19:06:30] <anonimasu> maybe
[19:06:41] <anonimasu> some/most manufacturers have it as option
[19:06:44] <Gamma-X> thats why i was askin BigJohnT cause hes used my machine basicly.
[19:06:50] <Gamma-X> its from 1989
[19:08:18] <BigJohnT> gamma, it should have a plug somewhere. Mine does not support digitizing :(
[19:08:47] <anonimasu> well, part setup is probably the thing you want it most for
[19:08:48] <anonimasu> :)
[19:09:26] <Gamma-X> BigJohnT u know if the crusader II has that input?
[19:11:21] <BigJohnT> no I don't know but the tech support guys at Anilam could answer that in a second
[19:13:27] <Gamma-X> got number
[19:13:29] <Gamma-X> ?
[19:14:00] <alex_joni> Please contact ANILAM tech support at 1.800.344.2311 for a detailed process of system balance procedures.
[19:14:08] <Gamma-X> thanks
[19:14:11] <Gamma-X> callin now
[19:14:13] <alex_joni> giyf
[19:14:49] <Gamma-X> giyf?
[19:15:33] <alex_joni> http://www.google.com/search?q=giyf
[19:23:27] <fenn> i always wanted to attach an inkjet print head to a hektor type thingy, but never thought about doing it on a floor: http://here2day.netwiz.net/seyedsite/publicart/flyingcarpet/flyingcarpetframe.html
[19:24:51] <fenn> a river on a bridge
[19:30:09] <dmess> hi all...ITS FRIDAY..... yabbadabbadoooo....
[19:30:40] <Vq^> indeed it is, badümdümdüm...
[19:31:32] <dmess> and works over for 11 or so days.... :
[19:40:12] <jmkasunich> fenn: thats pretty cool
[19:40:22] <BigJohnT> alex thanks for the 800 number, I've always used 716-661-1899
[19:40:36] <jmkasunich> it looks too nice to walk on
[19:42:32] <fenn> http://www.openarts.org/davecole/media/5g1m52FyP3SkW5S.jpg <- the knitting needles are street light poles
[19:49:28] <JymmmEMC> fenn: I was thinking airbrush instead of inkjet
[19:49:38] <JymmmEMC> might be easier to interface and control
[19:52:00] <jmkasunich> if you are trying to cover many square feet, you need much more ink than normal inkjet head provice
[19:52:04] <jmkasunich> provide
[19:52:24] <jmkasunich> a few dozen dots per inch, not 600
[19:53:33] <tommyt> has anyone here done the conversion without ball screws?
[19:53:47] <tommyt> in a mill
[19:54:07] <cradek> lots of machines don't have ball screws
[19:54:29] <tommyt> i know.. but it seems what i've been looking at.. that when people do this.. they upgrade to ball screws first
[19:54:49] <anonimasu> tommyt: it all depends on your ambitions..
[19:55:13] <cradek> that's because a cnc programmer doesn't want to worry about which way the machine moved last. low backlash is more important with cnc, that's all
[19:55:29] <archivist> it allows climb milling if you use ball screws (and the machine is rigid enough)
[19:55:57] <tommyt> yea..
[19:56:00] <cradek> yes often in cnc you don't worry about which way you're milling, or you use climb milling on purpose because the finish is better
[19:56:15] <tommyt> ok.. makes sense
[19:56:28] <tommyt> do you know a decent place to get ball screws for a bridgeport?
[19:56:59] <archivist> you need to stand well back if you climb mill with backlash, bits will fly!
[19:57:25] <jmkasunich> tommyt: I believe there is somebody who sells kits, but I don't recall the maker offhand
[19:57:33] <jmkasunich> try google
[19:57:39] <alex_joni> bbl
[19:57:58] <tommyt> yea.. i've been looking at google and cant find any prices
[19:58:03] <jmkasunich> like everything, there is a cost vs work tradeoff - its cheaper to buy the bits and pieces and assemble things yourself, but you need more skill and more time
[19:59:04] <cradek> if you're in a area with a lot of industry it might be cheaper/easier to buy a bridgeport with ballscrews. there are lots of them (but they are often a bit worn out)
[19:59:04] <tommyt> should i do something else other than buy the kit?
[19:59:08] <jmkasunich> google, bridgeport ballscrew conversion kit, first hit http://www.microkinetics.com/convkit.htm
[19:59:35] <jmkasunich> tommyt: only you can answer some of those questions
[19:59:37] <cradek> tommyt: nobody here will tell you what to do...
[19:59:44] <cradek> * cradek channels jmkasunich
[20:00:12] <jmkasunich> we don't know anything about you - you might be a crack machinist who can install ballscrews in your sleep, or you might be a total newbie who wouldn't know the right ballscrew if it fell on your toes
[20:00:21] <anonimasu> gah.
[20:00:26] <anonimasu> what expensive motor mours
[20:00:27] <anonimasu> mounts
[20:00:51] <jmkasunich> anonimasu: I didn't claim they were the best source, just what I found in a 30 second search
[20:01:04] <jmkasunich> (with prices)
[20:01:11] <anonimasu> jmkasunich: yeah
[20:01:19] <anonimasu> jmkasunich: I just thought how easy they were to machine :p
[20:03:55] <ALS> Merry Christmas All !
[20:04:09] <JymmmEMC> Merry Christmas ALS
[20:51:08] <skyfox00> does anyone know if its posible to 'stream' g-codes into emc2 via the serial(rs232) port?
[20:51:55] <SWPadnos> yes, it's not possible :)
[20:52:03] <SWPadnos> well, not with the existing software anyway
[20:52:12] <skyfox00> ok, thanks.
[20:52:24] <cradek> there's no need for that, since there's no (practical) file size limit
[20:52:34] <cradek> that's needed just on legacy controls
[20:52:52] <SWPadnos> unless you have a serial device that generates the G-code
[20:53:02] <SWPadnos> but that's probably very rare
[20:53:06] <cradek> yeah
[20:53:20] <SWPadnos> and probably not very useful with HAL / CL
[20:53:26] <jepler> you could either gather up the incoming code, and direct emc to execute the whole thing when M2 is read
[20:53:27] <SWPadnos> (as a competing solution)
[20:53:44] <jepler> or you could modify the included 'mdi' script to read from serial instead of the terminal
[20:53:56] <skyfox00> So I should refrain from writing a program that spits g-codes out realtime...
[20:54:15] <SWPadnos> though you'd have the same "issues" as MDI - no lookahead being one of them
[20:55:35] <cradek> emc, and all controls that don't stop between motions, depend to greater or lesser extent on reading future gcodes and 'preparing' them
[20:56:20] <skyfox00> I was just toying with an idea of putting emc in a serial-to-machine-controller 'box'...
[20:57:12] <fenn> you can send files over rs232
[20:57:43] <fenn> or you can use ethernet at 10000 times faster
[20:58:21] <SWPadnos> it's sure possible to make EMC take G-code serially, the ability just doesn't exist at the moment
[20:58:31] <SWPadnos> and isn't likely to be of too much interest :)
[20:58:54] <skyfox00> yeah, I didn't think it would, just though I would check...
[20:59:26] <SWPadnos> though it may be of interest in replacing controllers that are drip-fed now - it would make EMC a direct replacement for a DNC machine
[21:01:14] <skyfox00> well, thanks agian and keep up the good work!
[21:01:33] <SWPadnos> heh - you're welcome, but I'm off for the rest of the year :)
[21:01:40] <SWPadnos> no working here!
[21:01:56] <SWPadnos> (not that I've done much with EMC recently anyway :) )
[21:02:53] <skyfox00> I was referring to EMC 2.2.2 being out...
[21:03:12] <SWPadnos> oh - there are certainly others who are working on EMC2 :)
[21:03:32] <SWPadnos> so I'll add my thanks to them - good work guys! I hope to join you soon
[21:05:06] <skyfox00> oh, one other thing, how usefull would a program be that you could tell to, say, mill straight lines, arcs and holes, etc, and it would spit out g-codes?
[21:05:35] <Gamma-X> doesa vfd limit the power of a spindle to 2/3rds like a static phase converter?
[21:05:45] <SWPadnos> do you mean like cp2 (somewhere in the EMC repository), Jon Elsons programs, or the stuff Ken Lerman has been working on?
[21:05:51] <SWPadnos> and someone else whose name I forget
[21:06:14] <SWPadnos> Gamma-X, most VFDs are derated by 1/3 or so if you run them from a single phase
[21:06:28] <SWPadnos> so you'd get a 5HP VFD for a 3HP motor, for example
[21:10:19] <fenn> said 5HP vfd could run the 3HP motor at 3HP without overheating the motor
[21:10:38] <SWPadnos> I think it's the input wires that limit it
[21:10:49] <SWPadnos> wires/rectifier
[21:11:24] <fenn> you have to derate a 3phase motor if running from a static phase converter because of the (very) unbalanced phases
[21:11:48] <fenn> its just split phase with one of the phases loaded down with capacitors
[21:12:12] <SWPadnos> yes
[21:12:15] <fenn> i'm sure the power company loves them
[21:12:45] <SWPadnos> hmmm - I should look up split phase motors again - I don't recall what that means
[21:13:09] <fenn> 220 split phase is two 110V single phases at 180 apart
[21:13:12] <SWPadnos> a static phase converter just makes sure the magnetic field rotates in the right direction at startup
[21:13:19] <fenn> right
[21:13:24] <SWPadnos> once the motor is turning, it takes care of that itself
[21:13:45] <fenn> the phase converter changes that 180 degree angle to something more like 120
[21:13:46] <Gamma-X> wouldnt it be pointless in buyin a rotary phase converter when u can just buy a 1 phase 3hp motor and bolt it on?
[21:13:53] <SWPadnos> you generally take the caps out of the circuit once the motor is up to speed
[21:14:23] <SWPadnos> Gamma-X, that's one way to do it
[21:14:29] <fenn> swp: not if you're running a three phase motor
[21:15:07] <fenn> Gamma-X: you have to power the rest of the stuff (transformers for the servos, control)
[21:15:14] <SWPadnos> my converter has a heavy "starting cap", and two nearly (or exactly) equal "run" cap
[21:15:20] <SWPadnos> s
[21:15:34] <SWPadnos> the run caps are an order of magnitude lower capacitance than the start cap
[21:15:36] <fenn> they're probably just different esr
[21:15:40] <SWPadnos> nope
[21:15:40] <fenn> oh
[21:15:58] <fenn> well.. its a kludge either way you look at it
[21:16:05] <SWPadnos> I can hear the difference when the time delay relay kicks out the start cap
[21:16:10] <Gamma-X> ok
[21:16:26] <SWPadnos> it is somewhat, the run caps just keep the wild leg from being so wild
[21:16:44] <SWPadnos> mine actually is within 5% of nominal
[21:16:47] <SWPadnos> voltage
[21:17:05] <Gamma-X> i think only the spindle runs on 3 phase
[21:17:08] <fenn> Gamma-X: 1 phase 3 hp motors are hard to find...
[21:17:16] <Gamma-X> fudge
[21:17:26] <fenn> you can generally find less powerful motors though
[21:17:40] <Gamma-X> well the motor for a rotary is always constantly spinning right?
[21:17:52] <SWPadnos> Gamma-X, you probably have a transformer in there that powers the controls off one pair of the 3-phase input (unless there's a separate power entry for the controls)
[21:18:12] <Gamma-X> ok
[21:18:48] <fenn> a rotary converter is probably not worth it unless you are either: mechanically inept, or have lots of machinery with three phase motors already
[21:18:50] <SWPadnos> what you can do if this is the case is disconnect the controls from there, and feed them with 120 or 240 single-phase, as needed
[21:18:58] <SWPadnos> and then use a VFD for just the spindle
[21:19:48] <SWPadnos> unless they're using a 3-phase rectifier for the servo DC bus - that makes it a little more complex (you have to replace the DC power supply as well)
[21:20:09] <fenn> VFD is probably the best option
[21:20:20] <SWPadnos> unless everything comes off the same 3-phase input :)
[21:20:45] <SWPadnos> once the spindle is separated from the rest of it (which it may already be), a VFD is probably the best option
[21:21:03] <Gamma-X> im just hoping i can get full power out of the 3 hp motor
[21:21:11] <fenn> why? you arent gonna need it
[21:21:21] <Gamma-X> why not?
[21:21:28] <fenn> it's a standard engineering rule, like KISS
[21:21:44] <SWPadnos> 3HP is ~2250 watts, so you need about 10A at 240V single phase for the spindle
[21:22:04] <SWPadnos> if the servos are also around 1HP each, then you need another 10A
[21:22:15] <SWPadnos> and then another few A for the electronics
[21:22:37] <fenn> 3HP is a lot of power.. if you are stalling the motor you are doing something wrong
[21:22:38] <SWPadnos> so if you have a 25A (30-40 being "better") 240V single-phase service, then you can probably get full power from the spindle
[21:22:58] <fenn> if you think you may be doing something wrong, you are
[21:23:08] <SWPadnos> 3HP isn't much when you get end mills that are 3/4"+ diameter, and a few inches long
[21:23:16] <fenn> bah
[21:23:19] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:23:24] <fenn> dont confuse the boy
[21:23:43] <Gamma-X> SWPadnos i got 30 amp
[21:23:56] <SWPadnos> that should suffice
[21:24:00] <Gamma-X> i agree
[21:24:12] <Gamma-X> im just buyin a vfd
[21:24:15] <fenn> also note that servos are rated in peak power, and spindle motor is rated for continuous power
[21:24:49] <SWPadnos> servos are generally rated for both continuous and peak output (usually a 3-5x ratio between the two)
[21:25:01] <fenn> i doubt he has 1HP continuous servos
[21:25:07] <SWPadnos> mine are rated about 2HP continuous
[21:25:12] <fenn> no wai
[21:25:15] <Gamma-X> there huge anilam ones.
[21:25:20] <Gamma-X> HUGE! lol
[21:25:22] <SWPadnos> they would never be used that way on a milling machine, but they are
[21:25:40] <SWPadnos> mine are 27 in-lb motors, that can go to 2500 RPM
[21:25:41] <cradek> I'm still made somewhat nervous by any work that heavily loads my 2HP spindle, and I'm fairly experienced
[21:26:00] <SWPadnos> they're rated for 150V/9.7A continuous, ~37A peak
[21:26:11] <fenn> eegh
[21:26:17] <Gamma-X> dam SWPadnos
[21:26:19] <SWPadnos> and that's not huge :)
[21:26:30] <fenn> how big are they?
[21:26:46] <SWPadnos> oh - I just figured out what the package at the post office is :)
[21:26:56] <Gamma-X> ?
[21:26:59] <SWPadnos> they're NEMA42, about 12 inches long including the encoder and tach housings
[21:27:09] <SWPadnos> maybe 14 inches
[21:27:16] <SWPadnos> my analog servo drives
[21:27:21] <SWPadnos> (are at the post office)
[21:27:35] <Gamma-X> im gunna buy a teco vfd
[21:27:36] <Gamma-X> done
[21:27:49] <Gamma-X> ill be cuttin alluminum mainly.
[21:27:50] <SWPadnos> that was speedy
[21:28:04] <fenn> * fenn blinked
[21:28:15] <SWPadnos> you probably won't need 3HP for aluminum, unless you're roughing out engine blocks
[21:28:54] <SWPadnos> though I can say that I've popped the overload on my 1.5 or 2HP spindle, hand-cranking through aluminum
[21:29:05] <fenn> * fenn goes back to his 20W copy-machine servos
[21:29:10] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:33:19] <anonimasu> heh
[21:33:58] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: 3hp dosent cut too much aluminium
[21:33:58] <anonimasu> :/
[21:34:24] <anonimasu> speed seems more important and good cooling
[21:34:28] <anonimasu> bbl
[21:34:32] <SWPadnos> it won't be the speediest machine in the world, but the spindle may not be the limiting factor
[21:41:55] <dmess> never let the spindle... limit you... WE are making the machines WE want how we want them...... don't comprimise....
[21:43:14] <anonimasu> heh
[21:43:27] <anonimasu> I've yet to see a great 8krpm spindle design
[21:43:32] <anonimasu> or well, 16krpm..
[21:43:37] <anonimasu> that's easy to make for a hobbyist
[21:44:25] <dmess> if you can make the system work.... the spindle and hardwarre are CHICKEN po.. thoughts for the NEW YEAR....
[21:44:36] <SWPadnos> I guess that's because you need very good tolerances to make high-speed rotating things
[21:46:33] <dmess> i've run 500 rpm at near 300 ipm... 4 tooth.. you do the math//// i can make a less ths PAR machine WORK..... I got it in ME
[21:46:56] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: how good is good tolerances?
[21:47:04] <anonimasu> hehe
[21:47:21] <anonimasu> I have a grinder.. :p
[21:47:42] <anonimasu> but I need to make a adapter for the grinding wheels and get a diamond for truing them
[21:47:48] <dmess> they are only landing gear.... what do you think.. F 18
[21:48:23] <anonimasu> dmess: are you on cough syrup?
[21:48:33] <anonimasu> ^_^
[21:48:52] <BigJohnT> jepler: were you telling my what to use to turn on and off my plasma torch?
[21:48:59] <dmess> i have a few diamond pickcs... if you need one..
[21:49:11] <dmess> si
[21:49:56] <anonimasu> I'll find something locally thanks for the offer anyway :)
[21:51:42] <dmess> youcould send it back home....to sleep where she belongs... but milage isn't an issue
[21:52:02] <anonimasu> -_-
[21:55:36] <BigJohnT> Limit switch for plasma cutter http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/LimitSwitch.jpg
[21:56:46] <fenn> wow that looks complicated
[21:56:52] <BigJohnT> not really
[21:57:03] <fenn> what's all the "stuff
[21:57:34] <BigJohnT> the "arms" on the slide just keep the slide centered unless the slide contacts a hard stop
[21:57:52] <BigJohnT> when that happens the microswitch changes states
[21:58:19] <anonimasu> it it sure looks complicated
[21:58:45] <fenn> why not just get a switch with a lever on it
[21:59:07] <BigJohnT> no place to mount it
[21:59:26] <BigJohnT> this keeps everything inside the gearbox housing away from plasma dust
[21:59:52] <dmess> for the tool??
[21:59:52] <anonimasu> eh?
[22:00:10] <BigJohnT> tool??
[22:00:25] <dmess> plasma..
[22:00:27] <anonimasu> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Plasma%20Cutter/P1010049.jpg
[22:00:48] <BigJohnT> it also is my homing switch
[22:01:30] <dmess> ]oh boy..
[22:01:49] <BigJohnT> anyone know what the difference is between M52 and M52 P1?
[22:02:12] <fenn> that's dmess' galaxy
[22:02:22] <fenn> NGC7654
[22:02:29] <fenn> no joke
[22:03:17] <dmess> thank you for the reference...
[22:04:17] <BigJohnT> bbl
[22:07:20] <dmess> you are the man : ) fenn:
[22:09:53] <dmess> look to the stars and NEVER crash to the ground
[22:43:58] <BigJohnT> motion.adaptive-feed is a float and I need to set it to 1 when parport.0.pin-in is true, how do I do that?
[22:44:09] <BigJohnT> in my hal file
[22:44:34] <cradek> are you trying to reinvent feedhold or do you actually need the analog adaptive feed?
[22:44:50] <cradek> if you need feedhold (either go, or not go) use feedhold, not adaptive-feed
[22:45:51] <BigJohnT> ok could not remember too much activity at my machine shop
[22:46:48] <fenn> BigJohnT: m52 p1 (on) m52 p0 (off), m52 is the same as m52 p1
[22:47:35] <BigJohnT> m52 is adaptive feed
[22:48:03] <fenn> and P turns it on or off
[22:48:03] <BigJohnT> found it
[22:48:24] <BigJohnT> m53
[22:57:53] <BigJohnT> fenn: Sweet! M53 works like a charm Thanks
[22:58:19] <BigJohnT> cradek: Thanks
[23:27:19] <jmkasunich> anybody here ever take apart an HSK taper spindle/drawbar mechanism?
[23:27:54] <BigJohnT> is it similar to a bridgeport?
[23:28:00] <jmkasunich> no
[23:28:07] <BigJohnT> nope then
[23:28:11] <jmkasunich> HSK is actually pretty exotic
[23:28:35] <jmkasunich> but I got a couple spindles really cheap - I was just planning to steal the bearings from them
[23:28:47] <jmkasunich> didn't even know what taper they were till I got them home
[23:29:01] <jmkasunich> now I'm trying to figure out if I can do something clever with them
[23:29:05] <BigJohnT> ok
[23:29:20] <jmkasunich> HSK tooling is out of the question - an end mill holder is $300, and a collet chuck is $600
[23:29:53] <archivist> wait for second hand bits?
[23:30:18] <BigJohnT> even on flea bay
[23:30:20] <BigJohnT> ?
[23:30:38] <fenn> my idea was to make a collet that grabbed/centered a straight shank toolholder while pulling it up against the spindle face
[23:30:40] <jmkasunich> duh, didn't think to check ebay
[23:31:23] <archivist> see if and cutaway drawing on the intarweb make they are useable bits if stripped may be to specialized in pieces
[23:31:42] <BigJohnT> I get my collet holders for my rapid switch 200 there 1/4 the price.
[23:31:47] <fenn> archivist: parse error
[23:32:02] <BigJohnT> I still buy my endmill holders from penn or msc
[23:33:00] <archivist> see if a cutaway drawing on the intarweb make they are useable bits, if stripped may be to specialized in pieces, eg bearings may not be separate
[23:34:55] <jmkasunich> bearings are matched pairs of angular contact - pretty high quality I bet
[23:35:43] <archivist> are the runways part of the spindle not separate
[23:36:02] <jmkasunich> runways = inner races?
[23:36:13] <jmkasunich> they're separate, far as I can tell
[23:36:14] <archivist> yes
[23:37:24] <jmkasunich> two front bearings, then a spacer then two rear bearngs, and finally a clamping ring
[23:37:35] <jmkasunich> I haven't tampered with any of that
[23:41:17] <jmkasunich> the springs aren't quite as scary as I thought - with the spindle on the drill press table, I can depress the drawbar with the drill chuck without too much effort
[23:41:44] <jmkasunich> that should let me release the pressure under control, if I can figure out what pin to pull
[23:42:13] <archivist> * archivist wonders how far the parts will fly
[23:42:48] <jmkasunich> thats what the drill press is for
[23:42:57] <jmkasunich> (and why it had me scared before)
[23:43:44] <jmkasunich> the trick will be removing the 8mm steel pin (sideways) while pressing down on the springs
[23:45:35] <fenn> would a gear puller compress the spring?
[23:45:54] <jmkasunich> yes, I'm essentially using the drill press as a puller
[23:47:12] <jmkasunich> the "pull knob" threads onto the front of the drawbar - I should see what thread that is and make something that goes there and holds the bar in while I remove the pin
[23:47:53] <jmkasunich> cool - M6, and I have a tap
[23:49:28] <cradek> sounds like you need a valve spring compressor
[23:50:34] <jmkasunich> except I want to pull (from the nose end)
[23:51:40] <jmkasunich> I have a plan - all I need is a 1/2" bolt and nut, and a lathe
[23:51:51] <jmkasunich> except my lathe is in pieces right now
[23:53:39] <jmkasunich> back to work on the lathe
[23:53:53] <jmkasunich> I have a really good feeling that this could be converted to tormach style tooling!
[23:54:33] <cradek> neat
[23:55:03] <jmkasunich> anybody know what the OD of a tormach flange is?
[23:55:05] <cradek> tormach doesn't seem that great though...
[23:55:42] <jmkasunich> tormach seems ideal for small machines - repeatable in Z, good centering
[23:55:44] <cradek> their docs say it pulls out of the collet if you try to cut much
[23:56:03] <cradek> yeah for light stuff it's definitely a clever hack for R8 machines
[23:56:26] <jmkasunich> the machine I have in mind is gonna be around 1HP
[23:56:59] <fenn> tormach is 3/4"
[23:57:09] <cradek> flange though
[23:57:11] <fenn> oh
[23:57:24] <cradek> 1.5ish?
[23:58:00] <jmkasunich> the hsk nose is 0.95 ID x 1.25 OD
[23:58:10] <jmkasunich> if the tormach flange can seat on that its golden
[23:58:41] <jmkasunich> I have visions of reusing almost all of this spindle
[23:59:12] <jmkasunich> the drawbar has male M6 threads on it - if they can mate to a "collet" that fits the HSK taper and is 3/4" straight on the inside, it should all just work
[23:59:27] <jmkasunich> and the collet is the only critical custom part