#emc | Logs for 2007-12-17

[00:00:29] <mbaulfinger> Hi All
[00:15:18] <cradek> hi mbaulfinger
[00:15:43] <mbaulfinger> hi chris, not much happening in here tonight
[00:15:58] <cradek> nope, not right now
[00:16:10] <toastydeath> spacecataz
[00:16:22] <mbaulfinger> yesterday was quite lively!
[00:16:23] <cradek> I'm trying to build up my courage to drill and tap some 2-56 holes
[00:16:28] <toastydeath> why
[00:16:43] <toastydeath> in what?
[00:16:52] <cradek> just aluminum
[00:17:04] <toastydeath> shouldn't be an issue man
[00:18:33] <jmkasunich> what are you building now cradek
[00:18:47] <jmkasunich> (somehow I don't see the C axis needing tiny screws)
[00:18:52] <cradek> home switches
[00:18:56] <jmkasunich> ah
[00:19:06] <jmkasunich> I made my first part using CNC today
[00:19:24] <cradek> yay!
[00:19:25] <jmkasunich> another hollowed out fender washer for the magician/carpenter
[00:19:40] <jmkasunich> I noticed something funny
[00:19:50] <BigJohnT> is this the proper syntax for a message (MSG Arc OK)
[00:20:00] <cradek> MSG,
[00:20:39] <jmkasunich> I was doing most of my work in MDI, and would have G1 and F<some-feed> active, but if I went to manual and touched off, then returned to MDI, the modal stuff would be gone - I had to issue G1FwhateverX3, not just X3
[00:20:43] <BigJohnT> thanks
[00:21:51] <cradek> jmkasunich: I bet even switching modes does that (resets the interpreter)
[00:22:01] <jmkasunich> ah
[00:22:41] <cradek> I thought you were going to say that you noticed that cnc made it slower, not faster, to make your part,
[00:22:58] <jmkasunich> well, I wasn't timing it, but that might have been true
[00:23:07] <jmkasunich> otoh, I got a nicer part
[00:23:31] <cradek> I bet power feed in X is novel
[00:23:31] <jmkasunich> the job involved a LOT of facing cuts, and the machine doesn't have power feed in that direction
[00:23:38] <jmkasunich> yep
[00:23:49] <jmkasunich> I was actually sort of programming g-code on the fly
[00:24:02] <cradek> wait 'til you have CSS+FPR to see even better facing
[00:24:11] <jmkasunich> some cuts took 6-8 passes, but since MDI queues things, I just typed in each pass and then stood back and watched
[00:24:14] <cradek> (and especially parting)
[00:24:28] <jmkasunich> heh. I don't part much
[00:24:42] <jmkasunich> (my favorite parting tool is my 4x6 bandsaw)
[00:24:42] <cradek> but that's just because it sucks, right?
[00:24:53] <cradek> I'm surprised by how much better it works
[00:25:01] <jmkasunich> today's part was made from 1-3/4 bar
[00:25:05] <jmkasunich> (steel)
[00:25:25] <jmkasunich> part of the suckage is rigidity, and CNC doesn't do much for that
[00:25:51] <jmkasunich> uniform feed I'm sure will help some
[00:26:30] <cradek> g95 f.0005
[00:26:30] <cradek> g96 d1200 s30 m3
[00:26:57] <cradek> this is from the program I always use for parting. it means 30fpm, .0005 inch/rev
[00:27:09] <jmkasunich> G95 and G96 are css and fpr?
[00:27:09] <cradek> it's ***slow*** at large radius but makes a nice cut
[00:27:12] <toastydeath> i've only ever had a problem parting with hss tools
[00:27:15] <jmkasunich> (they're not on my quick ref card)
[00:27:24] <cradek> yes they're newer than the card (unfortunately)
[00:27:39] <jmkasunich> right, they were added at the workshop where we were giving out the cards
[00:28:18] <cradek> I hope we (you) still have the source for the cards - I think it didn't make it anywhere public
[00:28:32] <jmkasunich> I'm sure its around here somewhere
[00:28:33] <cradek> or did swp have it last?
[00:28:43] <jmkasunich> I think I sent him pdfs
[00:29:06] <jmkasunich> the back side is easycad - I can commit dxf's I suppose
[00:29:23] <jmkasunich> although that might not preserve all the details like arrowheads and such
[00:30:11] <jmkasunich> that parting program - 30 sfpm = 65 RPM at 1-3/4 dia, and progress would be 0.033" per minute
[00:30:24] <jmkasunich> (speeding up near the end of course, but still, I think the bandsaw wins)
[00:30:25] <BigJohnT> from an O code if statement can you jump to the end of a file?
[00:30:29] <toastydeath> what are you parting that slowly?
[00:30:42] <jmkasunich> I'm not, thats what cradek uses
[00:30:45] <toastydeath> oh
[00:30:52] <jmkasunich> keep in mind that he has a sherline, not exactly a beast of a lathe
[00:31:00] <toastydeath> i've done this on small lathes
[00:31:12] <toastydeath> plunge it in damn fast
[00:31:26] <toastydeath> the reason parting tools chatter is because the chip width is huge compared to the chip size
[00:31:29] <toastydeath> aspect ratio
[00:31:44] <jmkasunich> you can only plunge it in fast if the machine is rigid enough
[00:31:51] <toastydeath> plunge fast, the chip aspect ratio becomes a little more sane and the gain you get on regenerative chatter attinuates
[00:31:57] <toastydeath> no, it has nothing to do with machine rigidity
[00:32:04] <toastydeath> because we don't care about stopping at a depth
[00:32:08] <BigJohnT> hp?
[00:32:11] <toastydeath> the machine can bend as far as it wants
[00:32:17] <jmkasunich> I've stalled mine (slipped the belt) with a parting tool, because the toolpost leans into the cut if you get to heavy
[00:32:30] <BigJohnT> I've seen that and it breaks my inserts
[00:32:34] <toastydeath> then raise the tool up off center so you don't get a huge negative rake
[00:32:55] <jmkasunich> toastydeath: what kind of machines do you run?
[00:33:07] <jmkasunich> cause you don't seem to get it regarding small weak machines
[00:33:08] <toastydeath> i've run everything from small atlas lathes to a 20 hp mori seiki
[00:33:25] <toastydeath> thinner parting tool, more feed
[00:33:32] <BigJohnT> even an atlas is 10 times a table top lathe
[00:33:39] <jmkasunich> right,
[00:33:40] <toastydeath> this was a table top atlas
[00:33:48] <jmkasunich> what swing?
[00:33:52] <jmkasunich> how much does it way
[00:33:55] <toastydeath> it's got likea 6" diameter
[00:33:55] <jmkasunich> weigh
[00:33:57] <toastydeath> swing
[00:34:01] <toastydeath> weighs like 100-200 lbs
[00:34:06] <toastydeath> i can pick it up easy
[00:34:14] <jmkasunich> a sherline has 3" swing, and I can pick it up with one hand
[00:34:18] <BigJohnT> the sherline is way smaller than an atlas
[00:34:30] <toastydeath> then use a smaller parting tool
[00:34:38] <BigJohnT> I had an atlas for a while and my buddy had a sherline
[00:34:55] <jmkasunich> I'll have to give the narrow tool idea a try sometime on my Shoptask
[00:34:58] <BigJohnT> HSS parting tool?
[00:35:08] <jmkasunich> yeah, thats all I have a the moment
[00:35:23] <jmkasunich> I'm not much of a carbide fan, although that may change in the future
[00:35:38] <BigJohnT> I use all insert tooling
[00:35:47] <BigJohnT> I use to not but...
[00:35:56] <toastydeath> parting inserts are like tiny gods
[00:36:10] <jmkasunich> what happens when you want to bore in a 5/16" hole, or something odd like that?
[00:36:13] <BigJohnT> when they like you it's ok when they don't ...
[00:36:20] <toastydeath> ?
[00:36:32] <BigJohnT> i use a drill bit
[00:36:35] <toastydeath> jmkasunich: you mean a 5/16" hole using a boring bar?
[00:36:37] <toastydeath> with inserts?
[00:36:40] <jmkasunich> right
[00:36:42] <toastydeath> we have damn tiny boring bars
[00:36:44] <jmkasunich> I know they exist
[00:36:44] <BigJohnT> no
[00:36:45] <toastydeath> that take even tinier inserts
[00:37:02] <toastydeath> we tend to use solid carbide at that size though
[00:37:03] <BigJohnT> but i do have a tiny boring bar but it's 1/2 min id
[00:37:15] <jmkasunich> I also know that buying a fairly complete set of inserted tooling would cost darn near as much as my machine
[00:37:37] <BigJohnT> the import boring bars with inserts are cheap
[00:37:37] <toastydeath> the idea with insert tools is that you spend more on a better bar and buy fewer of them
[00:37:55] <BigJohnT> you only buy the bar once if you don't mess it up
[00:38:06] <jmkasunich> well, you need at least a few, to cover small holes and deep one
[00:38:07] <jmkasunich> s
[00:38:16] <BigJohnT> a set of 9 boring bars is <$40 or so
[00:38:19] <toastydeath> yeah, depending on the size of your work
[00:38:30] <cradek> to bore a 5/16 hole use a 1/4" end mill you broke a tooth off of :-)
[00:38:35] <toastydeath> we have single boring bars, .5" bar diameter and 8" long, that cost $2k
[00:38:41] <jmkasunich> thats what I do (the end mill thing)
[00:38:43] <toastydeath> great bar, and we only need one of them
[00:38:57] <toastydeath> to do a huge range of holes
[00:39:22] <BigJohnT> for turning and milling you can't beat insert tooling
[00:40:02] <BigJohnT> I use a insert tooling from 3/4 and up for milling
[00:40:10] <toastydeath> coated carbide inserts are not the greatest for small machines though
[00:40:18] <toastydeath> uncoated and ground is the way to go
[00:40:42] <BigJohnT> if you get the correct one you need less hp to do the cut yes?
[00:40:46] <toastydeath> no
[00:40:52] <BigJohnT> why
[00:40:58] <toastydeath> why would it affect the hp?
[00:41:14] <BigJohnT> the geomentry of the cutter
[00:41:16] <toastydeath> the rake and clearance affect hp
[00:41:27] <toastydeath> and you can produce the same thing on regular HSS
[00:41:38] <toastydeath> not the fact you're using an insert
[00:41:52] <BigJohnT> i've used cutters like tmg that are flat and a good insert will take 1/2 the hp to run
[00:42:02] <toastydeath> i've plunged HSS 1" deep into steel
[00:42:04] <toastydeath> in a lathe
[00:42:17] <toastydeath> that's a several HP cut
[00:42:29] <BigJohnT> you can't reproduce the geomentry of most modern inserts in HSS
[00:42:40] <toastydeath> and the geometry of modern inserts isn't to affect HP
[00:42:47] <jmkasunich> the tooling for today's job: http://jmkasunich.com/pics/endmill-boring-bar-1763.jpg
[00:42:54] <toastydeath> it's to affect chip flow over the tool and change the rigidity of the cutting edge
[00:43:18] <toastydeath> jmkasunich: haha nice
[00:43:28] <cradek> jmkasunich: is that spindle 5C?
[00:44:04] <jmkasunich> its a sjogren collet chuck that I got a killer deal on at HGR
[00:44:11] <BigJohnT> sweet
[00:44:23] <cradek> funny that's almost identical to the boring bar on mine right now
[00:44:57] <BigJohnT> I've used that trick before in a pinch to get the hole diameter what I needed
[00:45:08] <cradek> mine's 3/16
[00:45:15] <BigJohnT> any one know anything about O codes?
[00:45:23] <jmkasunich> not me
[00:45:37] <cradek> sure I do (he said, hesitantly)
[00:45:41] <BigJohnT> I have a if and I want to jump to the end of the file
[00:46:02] <cradek> then the endif should be at the end of the file
[00:46:03] <jmkasunich> you want a "goto" ?
[00:46:13] <BigJohnT> yep a goto
[00:46:18] <BigJohnT> not a call
[00:46:34] <Gamma-X> hello all
[00:46:47] <cradek> or if you really want to end, just if []; m2; endif
[00:47:01] <cradek> (there is no goto)
[00:47:09] <jmkasunich> m2 doesn't need to be at the end of the file?
[00:47:12] <BigJohnT> ok that will work
[00:47:16] <cradek> no, m2 can be anywhere
[00:47:22] <BigJohnT> btw, I got the M66 to work
[00:47:23] <cradek> the rest of the file is not executed
[00:48:05] <cradek> jmkasunich: you don't have repeatable tool position do you
[00:48:14] <jmkasunich> not with that toolholder
[00:48:22] <BigJohnT> sweet it works great
[00:48:36] <jmkasunich> I have a QC post, but I like that block for boring bars
[00:48:45] <cradek> oh good
[00:49:03] <BigJohnT> i'm doing a M66 and if I don't get an arc stable back from the plasma I need to abort
[00:49:08] <Gamma-X> anyone be able to appraise an old controller?
[00:49:09] <cradek> do you have plans for your spindle encoder yet?
[00:49:11] <BigJohnT> works sweet
[00:49:18] <jmkasunich> not yet
[00:49:22] <jmkasunich> thats near the top of the list
[00:49:32] <jmkasunich> along with a jogwheel - touching off without it sucks
[00:49:54] <jmkasunich> I had to touch off more times than I wanted with this job
[00:49:54] <BigJohnT> I can't mill without a jog wheel
[00:49:56] <cradek> incr jogs aren't bad are they? every time you poke 'i' they get smaller
[00:50:01] <Gamma-X> jmkasunich u got a tool touch probe auto thing?
[00:50:11] <jmkasunich> Gamma-X: no
[00:50:30] <jmkasunich> cradek: I didn't know about that shortcut, I was using incrementals, but mousing to the pulldown
[00:50:44] <cradek> oh, that's definitely tedious then
[00:50:55] <jmkasunich> I need an axis shortcut ref card (at least until I get more practice)
[00:50:58] <cradek> mousing almost always sucks
[00:51:04] <cradek> jmkasunich: it's on the help menu :-)
[00:51:47] <jmkasunich> it didn't help that I had to touch off that tool 3 times
[00:52:05] <jmkasunich> the first time, the tool had some wear on the point and wasn't giving me a square bottom
[00:52:24] <jmkasunich> so I took it out and freshened the point on the grinder, touched off again
[00:52:38] <jmkasunich> then I pushed a roughing cut too hard and chipped the tool
[00:52:39] <Gamma-X> anyone know a good website for some reasonable bits to start off with cnc?
[00:52:44] <jmkasunich> ground some more off and touched off again
[00:52:45] <toastydeath> how do you guys like to touch off
[00:52:50] <toastydeath> paper or a test cut
[00:53:11] <jmkasunich> on my part I did test cuts, smaller than target size (I was boring)
[00:53:33] <cradek> toastydeath: for diameter if I can spare the material I turn a bit and use a micrometer
[00:54:04] <jmkasunich> when I was doing the OD, I touched off at about 1.7", then turned down to my target of 1.565 dia, and found it 0.004 small
[00:54:06] <cradek> I never use paper, I use a feeler gauge when I have to do that
[00:54:22] <cradek> on a mill I use a dowel pin and set the height by lifting the tool until it passes under
[00:54:22] <jmkasunich> dunno if it was lash, flex, screw error, or stupid
[00:55:00] <toastydeath> small is weird, probably screw error or flex
[00:55:08] <toastydeath> i'm always large when i touch off
[00:55:29] <BigJohnT> I measure the part a few times until I get the results I want
[00:55:36] <jmkasunich> I might have measured the touchoff dia after a fairly heavy cut, and the final cuts were light
[00:55:51] <cradek> .004 dia isn't much flex in radius
[00:56:24] <BigJohnT> if you cut too light you don't get what you expect most of the time
[00:56:54] <toastydeath> what depth are you defining as "too light"
[00:57:05] <toastydeath> because i guarantee we have 4 people in here and 4 different definitions of too light
[00:57:05] <jmkasunich> if you have a chinese machine, you don't get what you expect most of the time
[00:57:20] <cradek> it's funny to see the large-machine and small-machine people argue about how to run a machine
[00:57:41] <toastydeath> lol
[00:57:47] <BigJohnT> well mine it from taiwan so it's different
[00:57:51] <jmkasunich> heh
[00:58:00] <toastydeath> mine is from japan!
[00:58:02] <toastydeath> and isn't mine!
[00:58:08] <jmkasunich> yours isn't a 3-in-1 either
[00:58:20] <toastydeath> it could be, that was one of the turret options
[00:58:28] <toastydeath> =((
[00:58:57] <BigJohnT> whatever machine you have if you can get repeatable results at 0.010" DOC try and make your final cut 0.010"
[00:59:06] <jmkasunich> look at how close together the spindle bearings are: http://jmkasunich.com/shoptask/move-complete.jpg
[00:59:09] <BigJohnT> if it is at 0.005 then...
[00:59:30] <toastydeath> bigjohnt: if you make your final diameter a consistant size, small or large machine, you can get a good cut
[00:59:57] <BigJohnT> exactly
[00:59:58] <toastydeath> try to nail the finish cut size just like you would a final diameter, and even if the machine flexes a little it will flex consistantly
[01:00:15] <toastydeath> so it shouldn't matter if you leave .050" or .005"
[01:00:17] <BigJohnT> exactly
[01:00:22] <jmkasunich> that sounds like a good plan when you are making more than one part
[01:00:38] <toastydeath> it works for one part too
[01:00:41] <BigJohnT> if a 0.001 DOC cut sucks then don't do it
[01:00:52] <toastydeath> you just need to leave three passes
[01:01:00] <toastydeath> to figure out how much the machine is going to flex
[01:01:18] <jmkasunich> my problem is I'm usually making one, the finish diameter is 1.490, I start with a rough 1.50 bar, and by the time it cleans up I'm already at 1.492 ;-(
[01:01:22] <cradek> I learned (on a manual machine) to feed in to halfway between the current and destination measurements
[01:01:50] <BigJohnT> if they are close...
[01:01:53] <toastydeath> yeah i don't do that
[01:01:55] <cradek> that works on a machine that you can't trust to do anything right
[01:02:02] <toastydeath> i rough it down to 3x whatever my finish allowence is
[01:02:09] <toastydeath> then try two test finish cuts
[01:02:15] <toastydeath> to gauge how much it flexes
[01:02:27] <toastydeath> and from there on out i use the same parameters for all the tools
[01:02:34] <toastydeath> unless they are vastly different
[01:03:06] <cradek> jmkasunich: I'm jealous of your bench - did you make it?
[01:03:10] <jmkasunich> yes
[01:03:22] <jmkasunich> 8 years ago when I got the machine
[01:03:28] <cradek> looks like nice heavy drawers
[01:03:30] <jmkasunich> I still haven't made the last 3 drawers
[01:03:34] <BigJohnT> i'm still dl the picture
[01:04:14] <jmkasunich> the top is double sheets if 3/4" ply, glued and screwed
[01:04:24] <jmkasunich> with formica on top
[01:04:58] <BigJohnT> jmkasunich you can't rush things
[01:05:04] <jmkasunich> heh
[01:05:25] <jmkasunich> the main thing keeping me from making the last drawers is that I need a clear flat surface to glue them up on
[01:05:29] <jmkasunich> and I don't have any
[01:05:31] <BigJohnT> the last three drawers LOL
[01:05:33] <cradek> haha
[01:05:39] <jmkasunich> anything that large and horizontal gets covered with crap
[01:05:45] <cradek> so true
[01:06:20] <BigJohnT> flat places seem to collect stuff faster than poop collects flies in the summer
[01:06:23] <cradek> I'm trying to break that habit. I'm much more likely to actually get off my butt and do something if I have a clean area to work in
[01:07:14] <BigJohnT> I built my house 10 years ago and still have not finishe the last three rooms LOL
[01:08:02] <BigJohnT> jmkasunich i wish you were closer when I need to check some ocles
[01:08:12] <BigJohnT> on the ocillosope
[01:08:18] <jmkasunich> ah
[01:08:40] <cradek> ocles?
[01:09:17] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: no glass door on the patio?
[01:09:28] <BigJohnT> yea, a guy asked me what do you do with an scope and I replied you check ocles
[01:09:30] <jmkasunich> huh?
[01:09:39] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: clear flat surface
[01:09:48] <jmkasunich> no patio
[01:09:56] <jmkasunich> I have a deck, but its not terribly flat
[01:10:00] <JymmmEMC> ah
[01:10:04] <jmkasunich> (cupped boards, space between, etc)
[01:10:08] <jmkasunich> plus, it has snow on it
[01:10:21] <JymmmEMC> snow is flat
[01:10:28] <jmkasunich> we have 0-10" of snow right now
[01:10:39] <BigJohnT> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?products_id=160
[01:10:39] <jmkasunich> 0 where the wind blows, 10" where it doesn't
[01:10:45] <JymmmEMC> add a lil heat, then let it re-freeze and it'll be clear too =)
[01:10:57] <BigJohnT> we got 12 mm
[01:12:17] <BigJohnT> anyone ever use M66?
[01:12:40] <JymmmEMC> Heh, I can't see the top of my bench
[01:15:01] <jmkasunich> dammit
[01:15:09] <BigJohnT> what
[01:15:11] <toastydeath> that handwheel is awesome
[01:15:22] <BigJohnT> yea and cost effective
[01:15:23] <jmkasunich> I need to order a few things from McMaster
[01:15:33] <jmkasunich> and I know that I'm forgetting something
[01:15:34] <BigJohnT> my favorite place
[01:17:54] <jmkasunich> I don't like pendants (although I would probably feel different if my machine was bigger)
[01:18:07] <jmkasunich> I don't want to have to use one hand to hold it and one to turn it
[01:18:23] <toastydeath> it's a godsend on some machines
[01:18:28] <BigJohnT> my jog wheel is mounted to the machine
[01:18:47] <jmkasunich> mine will be - below the keyboard, above the spindle motor switches
[01:18:55] <jmkasunich> (those switches will be going away eventually)
[01:18:56] <BigJohnT> if it is big the the curly cord pendant is the way to go
[01:18:58] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: why dont you conside one of those hand held mice?
[01:19:13] <jmkasunich> ?
[01:19:17] <toastydeath> jmkasunich:
[01:19:22] <toastydeath> i put the jogwheel on my knee
[01:19:32] <toastydeath> stand on the way cover, and the other foot up on the table
[01:19:43] <jmkasunich> heh
[01:19:53] <toastydeath> can't reach the spindle and the control at the same time
[01:20:04] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: http://images.google.com/images?q=hand+held+mouse
[01:20:07] <jmkasunich> like I said, large machines are differnet
[01:20:12] <toastydeath> yes they are!
[01:20:22] <jmkasunich> JymmmEMC: I was considering one of those
[01:20:34] <jmkasunich> but it was unsealed, and I figured it would get crapped up
[01:20:42] <jmkasunich> plus, where do you put it when you're not using it?
[01:20:49] <jmkasunich> I wound up with a touchpad
[01:20:49] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: they're cheap enough to replace
[01:21:07] <JymmmEMC> there is one with a ring of sorts
[01:21:26] <jmkasunich> except at 11pm on a friday when I want to do something and its fscked
[01:21:46] <jmkasunich> see the touchpad up on the mill belt guard? http://jmkasunich.com/pics/pc-working-1761.jpg
[01:22:11] <jmkasunich> I might move it down to the millhead (down about 4") so it doesn't interfere with taking the beltguard off
[01:22:17] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: http://www.play-gadgets.com/2006/04/14/its-a-keyboard-its-a-game-pad-no-its-alphagrip-ag-5/
[01:22:21] <jmkasunich> right now its held on by doublesided tape
[01:22:47] <jmkasunich> that is still something that you have to pick up and put down
[01:22:48] <toastydeath> http://www.monroemachinedproducts.com/images/mill_110.jpg
[01:22:52] <JymmmEMC> I think you could FLY your machine with one of those
[01:22:56] <jmkasunich> I don't want that, I want it to stay put
[01:23:38] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: I just noticed in your pic... http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7847
[01:23:42] <jmkasunich> hmm, are there photos of the cnc workshop mazak online?
[01:24:00] <jmkasunich> purple? yuck
[01:24:16] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: with arrows and numpad - other colors available
[01:24:36] <jmkasunich> I got the one without numpad for space reasons
[01:24:44] <toastydeath> how do you touch tools off with a keyboard?
[01:24:45] <jmkasunich> you can see that if it was wider it would be a problem
[01:24:58] <toastydeath> one arrow hit is .001?
[01:25:05] <JymmmEMC> toastydeath: I used a ext numpad
[01:25:20] <toastydeath> i meant like, is it not a continuous feed?
[01:25:26] <toastydeath> one press of the key is .001
[01:25:28] <toastydeath> or something like that?
[01:25:34] <JymmmEMC> under TCNC, I have the 5 key as slow jog
[01:25:35] <jmkasunich> toastydeath: jogs can be continuous or incremental
[01:25:51] <jmkasunich> 0.1", 0.01", 0.001" or 0.0001" per push
[01:26:25] <toastydeath> for a second i had this horrific image of trying to press the key JUST LONG ENOUGH to get the tool touched but not so long that it crashed
[01:27:09] <JymmmEMC> toastydeath: I use a flashlight and the numpad - works for me
[01:27:25] <jmkasunich> this is the CNC workshop mazak: http://www.cardinaleng.com/MAZAK%2003.JPG
[01:27:51] <jmkasunich> the wheel is on the lower right of the panel, you can operate it with one hand while looking at the tool, holding a paper, etc
[01:28:21] <jmkasunich> the tool-unclamp button is one of those black ones, so you can release the tool with one hand and catch it with the other
[01:28:33] <JymmmEMC> You could always use a one-handed kybd =) http://www.nanopac.com/Half%20Keyboard.htm
[01:28:42] <jmkasunich> the keyboard and monitor are on the tray to the right
[01:28:44] <toastydeath> most of our machines can be operated from the control, and don't require a pendant
[01:28:58] <toastydeath> the weirdest thing i've seen is a pendant on a 6
[01:29:02] <toastydeath> x10" lathe
[01:29:06] <toastydeath> at work
[01:29:08] <toastydeath> i'm like, why?
[01:29:42] <toastydeath> what could you possibly do that requires a handwheel
[01:30:42] <toastydeath> i guess the quick switching between the axes is nice, all the axis/feed stuff is right there
[01:31:47] <eric_U> cnc4pc sells just the jog wheel for quite a bit less than the full pendant
[01:32:29] <eric_U> I see the machinist at work milling manually with the haas with the jogwheel, doesn't seem like a bad idea
[01:32:45] <toastydeath> an mpg/jogwheel is great
[01:32:56] <toastydeath> i view it as a necessity on a cnc machine, but on a mobile pendant i don't understand
[01:33:17] <toastydeath> unless, like on the machine at work, where you can't reach the table sufficiently from the control
[01:33:24] <eric_U> people like the idea for some reason
[01:33:34] <eric_U> might be nice on a router
[01:33:54] <toastydeath> don't routers have a 4x8 foot work area and a flying head?
[01:33:59] <toastydeath> i could easily see the need for one there
[01:34:11] <eric_U> that's the kind I'm thinking about
[01:34:28] <eric_U> I like to have an estop button I can carry around with me
[01:34:51] <toastydeath> see i'd be afraid of hitting estop by accident
[01:35:31] <eric_U> or mount one on the floor, so you can turn off the mill while it's throwing parts everywhere
[01:36:13] <eric_U> I need to move my mill, it is between me and the computer
[01:36:17] <toastydeath> haha under the worktable
[01:36:25] <toastydeath> "what's this for"
[01:36:27] <toastydeath> you'll find out.
[01:36:41] <eric_U> I've heard of people doing that
[01:37:17] <eric_U> I don't think I'd want to be on the floor either, the mill could easily knock something heavy on top of you
[01:37:30] <toastydeath> yeah, there's no substitute for a good enclosure
[01:37:34] <jmkasunich> you need something like I saw at a steel rolling mill
[01:37:43] <eric_U> I've heard of people toppling bridgeports
[01:37:47] <jmkasunich> a phone booth sized enclosure, with armor plating around it
[01:37:53] <eric_U> nice
[01:38:00] <fenn> a strap around your ankle that trips estop as you're running away?
[01:38:10] <jmkasunich> the mill turns 12x12" billets into 1/2" rod, red hot
[01:38:31] <eric_U> probably came up with the booth after long, sad experience
[01:38:33] <jmkasunich> the finished rod is moving pretty fast, and if it hangs up on something, red hot spaghetti goes everywhere
[01:39:08] <jmkasunich> we were on a catwalk about 40 feet up, and they even had armor up there
[01:39:16] <eric_U> so now the operator gets cooked to death inside his little booth/deathtrap instead of perforated
[01:39:17] <jmkasunich> (really heavy expanded metal mesh)
[01:39:33] <toastydeath> i think that phonebooth was for the floor guy
[01:39:42] <jmkasunich> yep
[01:39:43] <toastydeath> the operator is usually up a story or two on a control deck
[01:39:58] <eric_U> what's the guy doing on the floor?
[01:40:10] <toastydeath> dunno.
[01:40:12] <jmkasunich> watching for trouble?
[01:40:18] <jmkasunich> cleaning up spaghetti?
[01:40:20] <toastydeath> reading a magazine
[01:40:24] <eric_U> for some reason that makes me laugh
[01:40:42] <fenn> that's where they put the new guy as an initiation ritual
[01:40:57] <eric_U> if he lives, he gets to be the operator
[01:41:34] <fenn> here's how you hold a keyboard with no hands http://www.play-gadgets.com/2006/07/05/keyboard-on-the-boobs/
[01:41:50] <toastydeath> shop assistant
[01:43:11] <eric_U> I need to do something with my keyboard
[01:43:31] <eric_U> don't think sitting on the machine table is going to hack it for real work
[01:44:13] <fenn> custom keyboard modding
[01:44:50] <jmkasunich> sure
[01:44:53] <jmkasunich> just like case modding
[01:45:06] <fenn> i think touchscreen + pyvcp + jog wheel pretty much covers the bases
[01:45:18] <jmkasunich> fenn: did you see my case mod? http://jmkasunich.com/pics/case-carnage-1748.jpg
[01:45:24] <eric_U> I wonder if I can get my touchscreen to work with linux
[01:45:37] <fenn> jmk why didnt you stick with the old trapezoid thingy?
[01:45:54] <eric_U> I'm thinking that having an ebay auction end at 11:45 on sunday night may cost the seller money
[01:45:57] <jmkasunich> didn't contain the power supply, and wouldn't fit a standard size mobo
[01:46:44] <eric_U> that case was a good find, nice to have something that tall
[01:46:50] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.com/cgi-bin/blosxom/shoptask has the text to go with that pic
[01:47:14] <jmkasunich> old gateway
[01:47:27] <eric_U> don't recognize it
[01:47:37] <jmkasunich> cause I hacked the crap out of it
[01:47:42] <tomp1> jmkasunich: i think i have same keyboard ( rolls up, rubbery) , it said 'oil & spill resistant' any experience with that?
[01:47:53] <jmkasunich> just started using it
[01:48:08] <eric_U> so you don't hate it yet?
[01:48:10] <jmkasunich> not the nicest thing to type on, but no worse than a laptop
[01:48:19] <fenn> i knew i bought that pneumatic riveter for a reason
[01:48:20] <jmkasunich> (I hate laptops, so that ain't saying much)
[01:49:33] <tomp1> the keys have some center pin like inside and my fingertips roll off in all the wrong directions (makes a bad typist worse ;)
[01:51:00] <tomp1> stt speech to text, i want a machine I can yell at
[01:52:41] <jmkasunich> hmm, I wonder if it would be better to mount the jogwheel on the millhead
[01:54:17] <toastydeath> i think that would be annoying
[01:54:27] <fenn> it doesn't move
[01:54:54] <jmkasunich> the good part is that it would be easier to reach with my right hand
[01:55:01] <toastydeath> i personally like having the jogwheel on the control so that it is next to all the other control stuff
[01:55:37] <jmkasunich> when you are turning the wheel, you're not looking at the screen, you're looking at the work
[01:55:50] <toastydeath> but i'm usually hitting other crap on the control
[01:56:27] <fenn> you could have a secondary panel on the right side
[01:56:47] <jmkasunich> just sitting on the bench or something?
[01:56:58] <fenn> on a post or something
[01:57:32] <fenn> on the tailstock :)
[01:57:38] <jmkasunich> not
[01:58:07] <toastydeath> wireless, on the chuck itself
[01:58:19] <jmkasunich> that reminds me - I should remove the X axis screw handle
[01:58:37] <jmkasunich> I had a bad incident with that handle once
[01:58:43] <fenn> can you just take out the pointy part?
[01:58:55] <jmkasunich> running power feed (gears from the spindle), and something solid got under that handle
[01:59:11] <fenn> i guess spokes are still dangerous
[01:59:22] <fenn> you can cnc up a new one then
[01:59:28] <jmkasunich> the X one doesn't even have a ring
[01:59:52] <jmkasunich> with the drives powered up, the cranks are impossible to turn
[02:00:08] <fenn> oh x is left-right
[02:00:24] <jmkasunich> even unpowered, there is cogging from the motors, and if you turn to fast the drives power up from the back emf and start dragging the axis
[02:00:35] <jmkasunich> yes, sorry - I use the mill axis names mostly
[02:00:46] <jmkasunich> although the lathe config uses proper lathe names
[02:01:10] <fenn> that might get confusing with a jog wheel
[02:02:02] <toastydeath> pretend it's a horizontal mill i guess
[02:03:53] <eric_U> I heard about a voice activated milling machine once, as soon as they started, it knocked the vice 6' across the room
[02:04:12] <eric_U> of course, someone commented "must have been something he said"
[02:04:30] <fenn> i cant see how that would ever be a good idea
[02:04:36] <toastydeath> i was just thinking that.
[02:05:25] <eric_U> marketing guys are not safety experts
[02:05:37] <fenn> it just seems totally impractical
[02:06:44] <fsdafsd> I rolled too big of a joint
[02:06:56] <toastydeath> anything under the cateogry of "things that can make a machine start accidentally"
[02:07:02] <toastydeath> are generally a bad idea
[02:07:23] <eric_U> I don't know if a keyboard is really a good idea either
[02:07:24] <fsdafsd> whoa
[02:07:27] <toastydeath> "Microsoft CNC"
[02:07:47] <eric_U> for some reason Msft got into real-time a while back
[02:07:49] <toastydeath> i don't know how you guys do that, the whole keyboard thing
[02:08:01] <toastydeath> brave souls
[02:08:01] <fsdafsd> dvorak ?
[02:08:04] <eric_U> but it basically was Wince
[02:08:20] <eric_U> haven't seen anything about it recently
[02:08:21] <toastydeath> ha
[02:08:34] <fenn> dos was pretty real-time
[02:08:44] <toastydeath> how do you guys do program proving with a keyboard
[02:08:47] <eric_U> dos was good, but only because it was passive
[02:09:06] <fenn> toastydeath: there's a feed override slider, and kybd shortcuts i presume
[02:09:07] <eric_U> how do you do program proving?
[02:09:20] <toastydeath> with feed control knobs
[02:09:48] <fsdafsd> um
[02:09:58] <eric_U> so you just slow it down?
[02:10:01] <toastydeath> yep
[02:10:03] <toastydeath> and halt it
[02:10:12] <eric_U> cutting air? or metal?
[02:10:14] <toastydeath> metal
[02:10:18] <fsdafsd> water
[02:10:26] <fsdafsd> cut with water
[02:10:36] <toastydeath> not like, during a cut
[02:10:47] <toastydeath> but single block the commands and make sure they're going to go where you want with feed at 0
[02:10:52] <toastydeath> watching the dist to go
[02:11:00] <toastydeath> then let it run, and stop again, etc
[02:11:17] <fenn> if you're just stopping it, why do you need a knob?
[02:11:31] <eric_U> he has to crank the speed back up
[02:11:38] <toastydeath> sometimes we want to run it slow
[02:11:43] <toastydeath> like when a tool comes down
[02:11:50] <toastydeath> or is going into/leaving cutter comp
[02:12:09] <fenn> how is a knob better than pause/resume and feed override slider?
[02:12:30] <toastydeath> where do you buy the slider
[02:12:36] <fenn> its a gui widget
[02:12:42] <toastydeath> how do you control the gui widget
[02:12:46] <fenn> with the mouse
[02:12:58] <fenn> or ... (some keyboard shortcut i dont remember)
[02:13:18] <toastydeath> if it was a physical slider, i would have no problem with it
[02:13:45] <toastydeath> easy to find without looking, easy to use, does the same thing,
[02:14:01] <toastydeath> saves expensive parts from becoming scrap.
[02:14:08] <fenn> the number keys control feed override
[02:14:21] <jmkasunich> fenn: you're not getting it
[02:14:21] <toastydeath> yeah haas machines have a numberpad, and i really don't like it
[02:14:33] <fenn> yeah i get it, i'm just being a pest
[02:14:40] <jmkasunich> :-P
[02:14:40] <toastydeath> i've seen those little knobs?
[02:14:44] <toastydeath> usb knobs
[02:14:53] <toastydeath> THAT would make a great emc feed control
[02:15:17] <eric_U> I din't know there were little usb knobs
[02:15:23] <eric_U> big ones I've seen
[02:15:29] <toastydeath> like 2"?
[02:15:38] <toastydeath> 1" and 2" little volume control style things
[02:15:41] <eric_U> I would call that big
[02:15:50] <toastydeath> oh.
[02:15:57] <eric_U> there probably are usb sliders for music
[02:16:01] <toastydeath> well a 2" knob helps if you are about to scrap a part
[02:16:26] <toastydeath> it's actually easier for me to find the feed knob than it is the estop or feed hold button
[02:16:28] <eric_U> isn't that why they invented mushroom switches?
[02:16:51] <toastydeath> i don't hit that often enough to have it committed to muscle memory
[02:17:06] <eric_U> probably a good thing
[02:17:15] <toastydeath> plus then you have to restart all sorts of crap when all you wanted to do was double check a number
[02:17:36] <fenn> you just need a puckerometer
[02:17:43] <toastydeath> ..?
[02:18:09] <fenn> slave feedrate to inverse of anal clench force
[02:18:13] <toastydeath> slows the machine down based on the face i am making?
[02:18:15] <eric_U> I think I'm going to use jmk's case carnage picture as my desktop background
[02:18:18] <toastydeath> oh, that would work equally well
[02:18:46] <jmkasunich> eric_U: go right ahead
[02:18:57] <jmkasunich> want the original 10MP version so you can crop it yourself?
[02:19:05] <fenn> i like wholepair's blue chip background
[02:19:10] <dmess> on a fanuc.. its feed 0 and RESET
[02:19:18] <eric_U> feed over-ride knob would be nice, don't see an easy way to do it though
[02:19:29] <eric_U> this ones good enough, thanks
[02:20:01] <jmkasunich> I'm pretty sure halui lets you do feed override
[02:20:08] <eric_U> Staples had a 22" monitor on sale for $160, missed it
[02:20:15] <jmkasunich> that means you could use any hand operated encoder as the FO knob
[02:20:16] <toastydeath> dmess: exactly =)
[02:20:58] <eric_U> so I could use some inputs on my mesa
[02:21:04] <dmess> only 1 way to do do it right..
[02:21:12] <fenn> you can use those usb knobs actually
[02:21:20] <fenn> if it's a standard HID device
[02:21:45] <jmkasunich> fenn: somebody had one of those things at the workshop, and jepler was messing with it
[02:21:53] <jmkasunich> I think there was some issue that caused grief
[02:22:04] <fenn> yeah apparently it's weird, but there's gotta be one that isn't weird
[02:22:22] <toastydeath> it's worth it
[02:22:34] <toastydeath> that one feature is so worth it
[02:23:53] <dmess> i agree
[02:23:55] <toastydeath> http://www.compumachine.com/images/Products/HMC/hmc-fanuc-hi.jpg
[02:24:16] <toastydeath> every critical feature is a knob.
[02:25:01] <dmess> what about itegratin one of the multifunction handles.. WIT knobs
[02:25:23] <toastydeath> dmess: pendants?
[02:25:40] <dmess> kinda
[02:25:54] <dmess> it was hand held
[02:25:59] <dmess> and USB
[02:26:02] <toastydeath> we actually were talking about that earlier, but the consensus is that they're kind of bulky unless you are using a big machine
[02:26:27] <toastydeath> then, of course, they're a lifesaver
[02:26:37] <dmess> not the one im thinking of
[02:26:40] <toastydeath> hm
[02:28:00] <dmess> it was no bigger than a large old calculator..
[02:28:33] <dmess> with the joystick in the center...
[02:28:44] <fenn> well... /me gives up googling for "HID knob"
[02:28:44] <toastydeath> hmm, never seen something like that
[02:29:03] <toastydeath> fenn: http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/powermate
[02:29:17] <toastydeath> oh
[02:29:22] <toastydeath> it is 36 bucks!
[02:29:33] <toastydeath> and apparently i can make movies with a twist!
[02:31:04] <fenn> i wonder if they have a patent on "usb knob"
[02:31:46] <toastydeath> "a device by which rotational user input around an axis can be conveyed to a computer via usb interface"
[02:35:35] <toastydeath> dmess:
[02:35:39] <toastydeath> you ever use a matsuura
[02:35:43] <toastydeath> vmc?
[02:35:56] <dmess> yes..
[02:36:09] <toastydeath> what's your opinion
[02:36:13] <dmess> a few actually
[02:36:27] <toastydeath> i hear they're top notch but not as frequently as other names
[02:36:38] <dmess> very well built machines... what control??
[02:36:43] <toastydeath> fanuc
[02:36:58] <toastydeath> 0m, just looking around at used machines for fun
[02:37:02] <dmess> really... twin pallet???
[02:37:06] <toastydeath> not actually considering buying anything
[02:37:07] <toastydeath> nah, vmc
[02:37:25] <dmess> Om....stay clear..
[02:37:36] <toastydeath> ?
[02:37:41] <dmess> with a yasnak .. go for it
[02:37:47] <toastydeath> here's one for 9k
[02:37:50] <toastydeath> with a yasnac
[02:37:51] <toastydeath> http://cgi.ebay.com/Matsuura-VMC-1000_W0QQitemZ270196546647QQihZ017QQcategoryZ12584QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[02:38:14] <toastydeath> why stay away from 0m?
[02:38:30] <toastydeath> too basic?
[02:38:34] <dmess> nice control... SAME as fanuc... but better in some respects.
[02:38:49] <toastydeath> ?
[02:39:04] <dmess> yes,,, 0M is BASIC to say the least
[02:39:13] <toastydeath> yeah man, it's real basic but it gets the job done reliably
[02:39:26] <toastydeath> i haven't had the chance to use a yasnac yet
[02:40:36] <toastydeath> wow these things go pretty inexpensively on ebay
[02:41:20] <dmess> oh dont get me wrong.. iv run many 0M's and gotten the job done.... but given my druthers...
[02:41:32] <toastydeath> i totally understand
[02:42:19] <toastydeath> the one thing i've noticed, and not that i have a ton of experience with different controls
[02:42:31] <toastydeath> is that no two fanuc controls behave the same damn way
[02:42:39] <dmess> there are 0ma,0mb, and 0mc's out there for a reason
[02:43:07] <toastydeath> do yasnac controls have pocketing cycles or things like that?
[02:43:15] <toastydeath> the one fadal at work does, but i've not used it
[02:43:33] <dmess> they can ALL be mabe to behave down a siries. with the right params...
[02:44:06] <toastydeath> good, because it was looking ridiculous
[02:45:14] <toastydeath> like on some mills, g28 Z0 sends z home
[02:45:31] <dmess> all we ever did eith the fadal was feed it Cimatron Gcode... FAST..
[02:45:31] <toastydeath> but on others the same thing sends it into the table unless you have the machine in g91
[02:45:51] <dmess> it SHOULD...
[02:46:10] <toastydeath> should send it into the table, or send it home?
[02:46:18] <dmess> no tr G29 on them...
[02:47:13] <dmess> primary home return... then secondary home return... been there done that.. feel your pain...
[02:47:24] <toastydeath> lol, at least it's not just me
[02:47:50] <dmess> g91 g28 z0
[02:47:59] <dmess> correct??
[02:48:00] <toastydeath> then back into g90 =(
[02:48:02] <toastydeath> yeah
[02:48:06] <toastydeath> incremental move nowhere
[02:48:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> older Yaznaq could loose position if you spun the Handwheel MPG to fast
[02:48:30] <dmess> elswise if the table was z=0 you told it to dive there
[02:48:49] <toastydeath> yes! exactly, and yet other machines wouldn't do that
[02:48:52] <toastydeath> it must be a parameter
[02:49:02] <dmess> so wil most fanucs...
[02:49:06] <toastydeath> whatever, from now on i'm just going to g91 it
[02:49:33] <Skullworks-PGAB> Also Just TRY and buy a memory upgrade for one - there is only 1 company in the western hemisphere that makes compatable mem upgrades
[02:49:44] <toastydeath> mem upgrades for... yasnac?
[02:49:53] <dmess> ALWAYS g91 g28 z0
[02:49:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah Yaznaq
[02:50:20] <Skullworks-PGAB> Fanuc mem is avail from a dozen sources
[02:50:24] <BigJohnT> goodnight gracey
[02:50:28] <toastydeath> dmess: so i'm learning... i've got a guy at work who is starting to have me come in on weekends and after hours and stuff
[02:50:38] <toastydeath> to teach me more stuff than i'm learning on hours
[02:50:51] <dmess> we have fanuc's running on celerons.... 5 axis...
[02:51:24] <dmess> good for you toast
[02:51:31] <toastydeath> never seen a 5 axis yet
[02:51:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> Our old Hitachi HT20 has a Fanuc 10TEF
[02:51:34] <toastydeath> that must be fun to work on
[02:52:29] <dmess> 21it ithink it is boot to win 95 before the fanuc boot kicks in
[02:52:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> it runs off a 4.077MHz 8086 with 8087 socketed next to it - it will not loose position by spinning the mpg
[02:52:57] <toastydeath> lol 4 mhz
[02:52:59] <toastydeath> epic
[02:53:10] <toastydeath> the 21 series is so fancy
[02:53:14] <Skullworks-PGAB> It works - and works great
[02:53:23] <toastydeath> there's something to be said for reliability
[02:53:31] <toastydeath> especially on bigger machines
[02:54:22] <Skullworks-PGAB> ( just remember to change out the 4 "D" cell batteries that keep the system memory alive when power is off...)
[02:54:28] <toastydeath> lol
[02:54:38] <toastydeath> come in one day and nothing works
[02:55:00] <toastydeath> i've always wondered about that, we kill all the breakers on our machines before packing up
[02:55:13] <toastydeath> does that kill the aux power to the controls?
[02:55:27] <toastydeath> because the machines still have power lights on the back that stay lit with the breaker off
[02:56:05] <Skullworks-PGAB> well - it boots - but the stored parameters are gone, hope you have a backup, and know how to set the serial port param by hand so you can load your backup...
[02:56:31] <toastydeath> well i meant does tripping the breaker cause the control to run on battery backup
[02:56:46] <toastydeath> or, since some lights are still on, is there still power to the memory
[02:57:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> new fanuc's use a lithium batt
[02:58:08] <Skullworks-PGAB> older ones and still some vendors Fanuc 0m or 0t versions use/d "D" cell batts which last 1 yr
[02:58:18] <toastydeath> hm
[02:58:38] <toastydeath> here's an interesting one, 6 grand for a used HMC
[02:58:41] <toastydeath> i wonder what's wrong with it
[02:58:43] <toastydeath> http://cgi.ebay.com/16-14-HORZ-MACHINING-CENTER-Matsuura-MC400H_W0QQitemZ150194140406QQihZ005QQcategoryZ633QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m118
[02:59:02] <dmess> or the paper tapes..
[03:00:08] <toastydeath> haha paper tape. we have an OKK from the late 60's or early 70's
[03:00:11] <toastydeath> that had a paper tape reader
[03:00:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> even many modern machines still use a tape reader
[03:01:34] <dmess> that machine looks set up for 4 pallets??
[03:01:57] <Skullworks-PGAB> because in bigger factories a tool cart is rolled out with all the tools mounted in the tool room and preset with a height gage - the cart will have a punched tape with G10's setting the tool offsets into the control
[03:03:11] <dmess> or we just send it to the control... from the crib... its all wired
[03:03:24] <Skullworks-PGAB> this may finally go away if they can prove network connections directly to machines are safe
[03:03:43] <SWPadnos___> SWPadnos___ is now known as SWPadnos
[03:04:06] <dmess> weve used them for 15 plus yrs quite reliably
[03:04:09] <Skullworks-PGAB> (( so Mazak;'s won't reboot while running, cause windows update decided it needed to.)
[03:05:28] <dmess> i wont speak for mazak any more.... we are on rs232 to IP.. and it seems to be the right choice
[03:07:55] <Skullworks-PGAB> JMK if you ever need to bore small holes, look into Micro 100
[03:08:56] <Skullworks-PGAB> minature boring bars made from solid carbide with a mirror finish on the cutting edge - worth every penny.
[03:11:59] <Skullworks-PGAB> I got in the act tonite - went to Harbor Freight with a 15% off coupn and brought home a 7x10 mini lathe
[03:12:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> they were on sale - plus the coupon - made it worth while
[03:18:41] <jmkasunich> Skullworks-PGAB: only about 100 different sizes
[03:18:56] <jmkasunich> IOW, you buy one when you know what size hold you need to make
[03:19:04] <jmkasunich> s/hold/hole/
[03:19:26] <jmkasunich> as a hobbiest, I rarely know what size hole I need to make until I need to make it
[03:19:46] <jmkasunich> even a moderately flexible selection of those bars would set me back $100 or more
[03:20:28] <toastydeath> then you need to get hss round blanks
[03:20:32] <toastydeath> and learn to grind your own boring bars
[03:20:40] <jmkasunich> they do look like the bees knees if you have to make small holes
[03:21:03] <jmkasunich> toastydeath: I grind them out of old end mills, or use one of the many already ground tools I have
[03:21:17] <toastydeath> but don't those always break?
[03:21:20] <jmkasunich> my dad was a machinist for 40 years, and I have one of his toolboxes
[03:21:36] <jmkasunich> he has all kinds of tools that he ground for this job or that
[03:21:41] <Skullworks-PGAB> Only buy for depth
[03:22:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> it does not take many sizes - you program the diameters
[03:22:48] <jmkasunich> its gotta be small enough to fit in the smallest hole
[03:22:56] <jmkasunich> and rigid enough for the deepest hole
[03:23:01] <jmkasunich> those are conflicting requirements
[03:23:14] <jmkasunich> (until you know the hole you are trying to make)
[03:23:30] <jmkasunich> I realize that I could pick out three or four that would cover a pretty good range of holes
[03:23:37] <jmkasunich> but three or four is well over $100
[03:26:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> true I guess - but I have several thousand tied up in just my reamer collection - so a multi-function boring bar seems cheap.
[03:26:58] <jmkasunich> understood - this gets back to the pro-vs-hobby mindest
[03:27:15] <Skullworks-PGAB> well - for me its both
[03:27:33] <Skullworks-PGAB> Love what you do sort of thing
[03:27:38] <jmkasunich> right
[03:28:00] <jmkasunich> but the pro part of it pays for the hobby part, so from a financial point of view you are a pro
[03:28:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> I started buying up machine tooling in 1984 with hopes of opening my own shop someday
[03:29:08] <toastydeath> machining is expensive man
[03:29:11] <toastydeath> no matter how you look at it
[03:29:36] <Skullworks-PGAB> in 1990 I opened up a biz doing a time share with an existing machine shop
[03:30:05] <Skullworks-PGAB> I made out OK - but was working 100 hour weeks to make it happen
[03:30:29] <toastydeath> i plan on consulting
[03:30:34] <toastydeath> to pay for my home shop
[03:30:55] <Skullworks-PGAB> I gave it up and now do the mans bidding... and get paid real OT for any extra hours
[03:32:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> but - I'm still building up my shop - as part of my semi-retirement plan - suplimental income down the road.
[03:33:56] <jmkasunich> watch out for that gravity storm!
[03:35:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> toasty - consulting paid the best - but for that to pay off you need a well known reputation - so your name is what they are calling for
[03:38:34] <toastydeath> yep, i'm working on that now man
[03:38:47] <toastydeath> hopefully in 10 years i'll be somewhere.
[03:40:49] <Skullworks-PGAB> Ampex, D.E.C., Maxtor, Compaq, IOmega, Syquest, HP (Printer research div) and military jobs - when you have gotten engineering teams from companies like these out of serious jams because they could not do the job correctly in house... You card will be kept by people who are ready to make things happen
[03:42:08] <Skullworks-PGAB> DEC was so good - it got to the point of them only asking how soon I could put it in there hands, an open amount P.O.
[03:42:23] <toastydeath> nice man
[03:42:40] <toastydeath> that's a great place to be
[03:42:42] <toastydeath> career wise
[03:42:50] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah well things were cherry before Y2K
[03:43:44] <Skullworks-PGAB> most those companies are just a ghost of what they once were, and most of whats left is made offshore.
[03:44:54] <toastydeath> =/
[03:45:07] <toastydeath> i'm into the high accuracy stuff, which has yet to go offshore
[03:45:16] <toastydeath> but even the stuff offshore uses american contractors
[03:47:50] <Skullworks-PGAB> my employer is moving 66% of our operation to Mexico
[03:48:25] <toastydeath> damn dude.
[03:48:56] <Skullworks-PGAB> Our AL stock is US made but sent to a plant in Mexico to be formed into extruded tube stock
[03:50:13] <Skullworks-PGAB> they are trying to get the extrusion company in mexico to finish machine the stock so when we get it we only have to apply the teflon coatings
[03:51:05] <toastydeath> man, i hope there is some machine work left in the US
[03:51:15] <toastydeath> or i'm not going to have many career oppertunities
[03:51:51] <Skullworks-PGAB> I figure my job is safe for a few years - there is a long steep learning curve to make our products
[03:53:28] <Skullworks-PGAB> and one of the part owners of our comapny owns a plant in Japan and 4 in chinia
[03:53:55] <toastydeath> that's good at least
[03:55:48] <eric_U> when the American management class sends the last production facility overseas, their days are numbered
[03:55:49] <Skullworks-PGAB> he is going to bring work from the china plant here - because long shipping lead times, quality issues, customs tarifs and the fact that the end user is only 200 miles from our plant - meaning we can ship from stock on hand in under 24hrs.
[03:56:28] <toastydeath> eric_u: the management class can always get jobs middle managing the service sector
[03:56:32] <toastydeath> unfortunately
[03:56:47] <eric_U> would you like fries with that?
[03:57:10] <toastydeath> apparently =(
[03:57:18] <eric_U> too fattening
[03:57:29] <Skullworks-PGAB> hey - even those drive up window jobs have been outsourced
[03:58:26] <toastydeath> indian call center
[03:58:47] <toastydeath> "hello you've reached.... mcdonalds, how may i assist you today"
[03:58:48] <Skullworks-PGAB> McD has drive up info sent to a call center in Nebraska for data entry that pops up at the cashier and kitchen areas
[03:59:04] <eric_U> why not?
[03:59:36] <eric_U> man, I was hoping the Dolphins would lose today so they could beat the Pats as their only win of the season
[03:59:54] <cradek> extremely few jobs are 100% safe from outsourcing
[04:00:12] <cradek> barbers, doctors, lawn care, painting, auto repair
[04:00:15] <jmkasunich> short order cook
[04:00:19] <cradek> yep cooks
[04:00:30] <jmkasunich> construction (at least partially)
[04:00:38] <eric_U> illegals are doing that
[04:00:39] <cradek> any kind of widget making is right out
[04:01:01] <jmkasunich> unless the widget is too big to fit on a boat
[04:01:14] <Skullworks-PGAB> even health care is seeing patients sent overseas for complex surgery
[04:01:16] <eric_U> our tolerance for junk went way up, that's what made china so strong
[04:01:30] <toastydeath> i dunno man, there's a bunch of small shops doing well
[04:01:48] <Skullworks-PGAB> small is the only way to survive
[04:01:48] <toastydeath> and a bunch of NEW shops doing well, who understand how to run the high end modern machines to compete with outsourcing
[04:01:51] <eric_U> with as much military spending as there is, there should be pockets of strength
[04:02:09] <toastydeath> all those places out in cali with 8 hmc's running 24/7
[04:02:15] <toastydeath> and like three dudes to the whole place
[04:02:31] <Skullworks-PGAB> don't count on any big contracts, just try to keep a stream of small ones
[04:02:37] <toastydeath> yeah
[04:02:43] <toastydeath> well these places are masters of turn-around
[04:02:55] <eric_U> our health care system is broken, it's far faster to go to India, doctors are pretty good there
[04:03:06] <toastydeath> they don't do low-quantity so well, but they do midsized to large numbers in good time and cost effectively
[04:03:13] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah trained here
[04:03:22] <eric_U> probably not
[04:03:41] <Skullworks-PGAB> but don't have our insurence burden
[04:03:57] <eric_U> don't have our medical management burden
[04:04:44] <toastydeath> we're doomed.
[04:04:57] <eric_U> probably
[04:05:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> health care in the US is now 70% paper shuffling
[04:05:24] <eric_U> It's about 35% paper shuffling, but that's bad enough
[04:05:47] <Skullworks-PGAB> (carbon copies count, ok)
[04:06:18] <eric_U> ok
[04:06:44] <Skullworks-PGAB> I don't think there still is a U.S. Made plain Engine lathe.
[04:07:48] <eric_U> doubt it, nobody wants to spend that much money
[04:07:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> I don't count a Harding chucker...
[04:08:29] <eric_U> I shouldn't be typing, I smooshed my middle finger flat the other night
[04:09:00] <toastydeath> i think there are still 3 us BRANDS
[04:09:06] <toastydeath> but i don't know if they're made here
[04:09:10] <eric_U> turns out brushless motors don't exactly need perfect commutation to run
[04:09:11] <toastydeath> probably not
[04:10:07] <eric_U> should I run my drives in torque or velocity mode?
[04:10:19] <jmkasunich> a year ago I had two matched contactors that I was gonna use for my spindle motors...
[04:10:23] <jmkasunich> can I find them now?
[04:10:24] <jmkasunich> NO
[04:10:43] <eric_U> tell me about it
[04:10:57] <Skullworks-PGAB> one for mill head other for lathe spindle?
[04:10:59] <eric_U> I swear I have a box full of din terminals, no can find
[04:11:09] <cradek> anyone need some lefthand 6-40 or 8-36 taps?
[04:11:10] <jmkasunich> yes
[04:11:17] <jmkasunich> lefthand?
[04:11:25] <cradek> yep
[04:11:42] <jmkasunich> where did you get those from?
[04:12:08] <Skullworks-PGAB> cradek - only thing I seen that uses that are the insides of rifle scopes
[04:12:50] <Skullworks-PGAB> * Skullworks-PGAB used to make parts for Redfield when they were still in business in Denver...
[04:13:51] <cradek> I bought a box of 'small' taps at an auction
[04:13:58] <cradek> lots of nice but bizarre stuff
[04:14:59] <jmkasunich> well, if you got some normal ones, and didn't pay too much for the box, its still good
[04:15:34] <Skullworks-PGAB> I love bizarre taps, put I tend to stick to normal right hand versions
[04:16:02] <jmkasunich> the other ones are good for making tiny turnbuckles
[04:17:44] <cradek> yeah it was a great deal. there are dozens of RH normal sizes too
[04:17:49] <Skullworks-PGAB> 13/16-40
[04:17:51] <cradek> lots of 2-56 which I actually use
[04:18:09] <jmkasunich> my all time best auction win was a box of drill chucks for $150
[04:18:57] <jmkasunich> it included an Albrecht 1/2" keyless, 5/8 and 3/8 Jacobs ball bearing "super chucks" which I kept
[04:19:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> I won't tap with a plain carbon steel tap - I use those only to chase existing threads
[04:19:10] <jmkasunich> and several others that I sold on ebay for more than I paid for the whole box
[04:19:18] <toastydeath> nice man, that's a good find
[04:19:45] <jmkasunich> got my dividing head and arbor press at that same auction
[04:19:53] <jmkasunich> it was a former torpedo factors
[04:19:56] <jmkasunich> factory
[04:20:05] <jmkasunich> never saw so many 20-21" mics in one place
[04:20:21] <jmkasunich> must have been 50 of em
[04:20:26] <jmkasunich> no 19-20 ones
[04:21:19] <jmkasunich> torpedo tubes are 21" in diameter ;-)
[04:21:41] <toastydeath> haha, epic.
[04:21:48] <toastydeath> i guess if there's no need then why bother?
[04:21:55] <Skullworks-PGAB> I bought a box of beat up MT3 drills for $25 - on the bottom of the pile was a tapmatic 30X and a procunier tapping head.
[04:22:01] <jmkasunich> they also had a hydrostatic pressure test chamber
[04:22:22] <jmkasunich> I doubt that got any buyers - it was 21" dia by about 15 feet long, set vertically into the floor
[04:22:33] <jmkasunich> Skullworks-PGAB: score!
[04:22:43] <Skullworks-PGAB> I sold the Procunier for $250
[04:23:02] <jmkasunich> I got my procunier for about $30 at HGR
[04:23:17] <Skullworks-PGAB> that was a good buy
[04:23:33] <jmkasunich> yeah, that was a while ago
[04:23:48] <jmkasunich> HGR has gotten wise to ebay lately, you don't find as many really good prices
[04:23:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> there were also about 20 collets of a type I could not identify
[04:26:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> what is really sad is that the good old tools aregoing for scrap prices
[04:28:33] <Skullworks-PGAB> I bought - on ebay - a Brown & Sharp 24" Venier height gage - for $19 and a 24' B&S Venier caliper for $30.
[04:29:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> If it isn't digital - no one wants it
[04:44:43] <Skullworks-PGAB> Off to watch some quality BBC TV thanks to torrents ( Life on Mars S02E04 )
[05:03:05] <toastydeath> ffff
[05:07:43] <mbaulfinger> talk to you guys later
[06:55:25] <anonimasu> LawrenceG: §morning
[06:55:59] <LawrenceG> hey.... only 22:55 here
[06:56:06] <toastydeath> 1:57
[06:56:35] <LawrenceG> messing around trying to get lirc working
[06:56:56] <LawrenceG> (ir remote control stuff)
[06:58:35] <anonimasu> hehe
[06:58:53] <toastydeath> g28!
[07:20:01] <LawrenceG> sourceforge downloads seem to be knackered again.... might be a partial local network outage.... big windstorm here
[07:22:26] <anonimasu> ^_^
[07:49:15] <toastydeath> blebleble
[08:03:18] <anonimasu> ah
[08:03:20] <anonimasu> finally at work
[10:23:19] <alex_joni> anonimasu: hi
[10:23:25] <alex_joni> alibre design xpress 10 is out
[10:48:08] <anonimasu> hey
[10:48:17] <anonimasu> alex_joni: nice!
[10:48:29] <anonimasu> is it better?
[11:53:01] <alex_joni> anonimasu: sure seems like it
[11:53:09] <alex_joni> it has a grid for sketches, and snap to grid
[11:53:18] <alex_joni> and it has some arrays (linear and circular)
[11:53:27] <alex_joni> that's what I saw in 5 min
[12:13:06] <anonimasu> alex_joni: im grabbing it
[12:39:40] <alex_joni> the update barfed for me
[12:39:45] <alex_joni> but a fresh install worked ok
[12:46:05] <anonimasu> ok
[15:56:17] <skunkworks> cradek: guy at work here can't wrap his head around the your video.. Says those hole would not be round. :)
[16:02:32] <archivist> for what definition on round
[16:02:37] <archivist> of
[16:04:32] <cradek> skunkworks: that's why I put the angle plates there - so you can see it's drilling straight "in"
[16:06:56] <skunkworks> yes - but he doesn't believe it.. like I say - he can't wrap his head around it.. 'the head should be moving in and out - not the 2 axis's'
[16:06:57] <skunkworks> ;)
[16:07:44] <cradek> looks like my gecko will be here thursday
[16:07:51] <cradek> then he'll really be baffled
[16:20:10] <skunkworks> heh
[16:20:17] <skunkworks> I can't wait :)
[16:21:09] <jlmjvm> cradek:do you have a new vid?
[16:21:36] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jQy-zc5P6w
[16:28:12] <jlmjvm> always wondered if you could drill a hole like that
[16:28:39] <jlmjvm> very cool cradek
[16:29:14] <jlmjvm> need to do that with my boss
[16:29:44] <archivist> nice vid
[16:31:03] <jlmjvm> cradek:have you tried a compound angle yet?
[16:31:59] <cradek> jlmjvm: what do you mean compound?
[16:32:43] <jlmjvm> 2 angles
[16:33:41] <cradek> there's no C axis yet
[16:33:47] <cradek> actually it's built, and I'm waiting for the stepper driver to come
[16:34:25] <jlmjvm> cool,good work
[16:34:31] <cradek> but, it will look the same, since the spindle only rotates in that plane.
[16:35:53] <jlmjvm> look forward to seeing it
[16:35:59] <cradek> me too!
[16:36:37] <cradek> I hope to be able to program the platonic solids as a nice demo
[16:36:50] <cradek> (I have to generate the gcode by hand, I have no CAM)
[16:38:15] <jlmjvm> anyone going to cabin fever?
[16:39:19] <jepler> it's too far away for me
[16:39:32] <jlmjvm> where is it this year?
[16:39:50] <jepler> I think I saw it was in pennsylvania
[16:40:03] <SWPadnos> York, PA
[16:40:06] <jepler> http://www.cabinfeverexpo.com/
[16:40:20] <jlmjvm> oh wow,long drive from huntsville,al
[16:40:21] <jepler> someone wants to buy me plane tickets, though, and I'll go.
[16:40:30] <SWPadnos> I don't think pl;anes fly there :)
[16:42:32] <jlmjvm> jepler:can my tlo program be started from a button on the axis gui?
[16:44:58] <jepler> jlmjvm: not without changing axis. you can find some examples of how other external programs are started by looking at share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl. For example, here's how the classicladder gui may be started:
[16:45:03] <jepler> .menu.file add command \
[16:45:05] <jepler> -command {exec classicladder &}
[16:45:08] <jepler> setup_menu_accel .menu.file end [_ "_Ladder Editor..."]
[16:51:02] <jlmjvm> thanks jepler
[16:52:53] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.com/d2a928bf2
[16:54:05] <jlmjvm> thats the latest version we have of the TLO program
[16:55:10] <jepler> perhaps you want to change the "Edit tool table" entry to invoke it
[17:03:43] <jlmjvm> i have it working from a launcher on the lower toolbar right now,single click on the icon and it opens the program
[17:28:16] <The_B> The_B is now known as The_Ball
[18:46:25] <skunkworks> cradek: how are you homing the a axis? if your doing it manually - how are you planning on homing it?
[18:46:59] <anonimasu> the 5 axis stuff was awesome!
[18:59:29] <SWPadnos> woohoo! I just nabbed some analog servo drives off ebay
[18:59:46] <skunkworks> that was you?!
[18:59:49] <skunkworks> ;)
[19:00:05] <SWPadnos> still only 80V, but then again, I'm not sure I want to drive my BP ballscrews faster than 1800RPM
[19:00:13] <SWPadnos> heh - the AMC controls in ebay express?
[19:00:16] <SWPadnos> that was me
[19:00:38] <SWPadnos> err - 900 RPM, still fast for a long screw
[19:00:55] <skunkworks> I was kidding
[19:01:02] <skunkworks> with servos?
[19:01:11] <SWPadnos> no, just drives. I have servos
[19:01:19] <skunkworks> ah
[19:01:29] <SWPadnos> I've got 3x 27 in-lb and 2 or 3 50 oz-in ones
[19:01:43] <skunkworks> ah - 2:1
[19:01:44] <SWPadnos> (50 oz-in @ 5000 RPM)
[19:01:47] <SWPadnos> yep
[19:02:23] <SWPadnos> the larger ones are 40V/krpm, so 80V should give around 1800 RPM with resistive losses
[19:02:45] <SWPadnos> and 900 RPM is plenty fast for a screw that was designed to be hand-cranked
[19:03:28] <SWPadnos> the nice thing is that the peak current is 30A, which is well within the spec of the motor, but 10A more than the geckos can provide
[19:08:17] <skunkworks> geckos have their limit..
[19:08:24] <SWPadnos> limits, even :)
[19:08:36] <SWPadnos> luckily, I have tachs on my motors, as well as encoders
[19:08:37] <skunkworks> I think cradek will be very happy with the one stepper drive he bought.\
[19:08:43] <skunkworks> cool
[19:08:47] <SWPadnos> heh - probably
[19:09:04] <SWPadnos> cradek, did you get a vampire or a normal drive? (G203V or one of the others)
[19:11:39] <skunkworks> it must be lunch time
[19:12:07] <skunkworks> doesn't he take his laptop with him to the intenet cafe'?
[19:12:22] <SWPadnos> he
[19:12:24] <SWPadnos> h
[19:18:51] <cradek> I got one with configurable microstepping
[19:19:03] <SWPadnos> hmmm. that sounds like a G210 or a G212
[19:21:49] <cradek> yes that's it
[19:22:13] <SWPadnos> heh - well, be careful. those aren't as un-killable as the G204V
[19:22:25] <SWPadnos> not that they're fragile though
[19:22:42] <skunkworks> sure - scare him a bit.
[19:22:44] <cradek> I hope not being a clumsy fool will be enough protection
[19:22:51] <SWPadnos> should be
[19:22:51] <cradek> I may be one or the other, but not both
[19:23:08] <SWPadnos> and I think you have the required intelligence for proper usage as well
[19:26:50] <skunkworks> cradek: how are you homing the a axis? if your doing it manually - how are you planning on homing it?
[19:27:08] <cradek> no home switches yet. I'll have to come up with something.
[19:28:20] <SWPadnos> uh - there is no A on that mill, is there?
[19:28:24] <SWPadnos> isn't it B/C?
[19:28:30] <cradek> right
[19:28:55] <SWPadnos> you could use a very precise inclinometer to home the B axis :)
[19:29:19] <skunkworks> sorry - my mistake
[19:30:21] <SWPadnos> wow - there's one at DigiKey that's got 2 arc-minute resolution, but it's $216
[19:30:27] <SWPadnos> dual axis though
[19:30:58] <cradek> now I need that starrett level I've been wanting
[19:31:08] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:31:36] <SWPadnos> I got a cheapo off eBay for $100 or so
[19:31:44] <skunkworks> we bought a inexpensive (cheap) 1/2thou per foot level. It needed to be 'tweeked' but works great.
[19:32:06] <skunkworks> probably enco or something
[19:32:38] <skunkworks> (you would rotate the level 180 and it would measure different.
[19:32:39] <skunkworks> )
[19:33:55] <SWPadnos> this one seems pretty good in that regard
[19:36:05] <SWPadnos> actually, it's also adjustable - there's a screwjack in there
[19:46:49] <skunkworks> yes - that is what this is
[20:14:17] <cradek> SWPadnos: what was that website that sold the 16 core server machines?
[20:16:11] <jepler> aberdeeninc.com is one that swp has mentioned (the newlucky page links to them)
[20:16:38] <cradek> aha
[20:22:00] <skunkworks> http://imagebin.org/12452
[20:25:14] <alex_joni> skunkworks: wot's that?
[20:26:13] <skunkworks> new server
[20:26:21] <alex_joni> nice
[20:26:22] <skunkworks> duel core 2 duos
[20:26:39] <alex_joni> too bad for the crippled OS
[20:26:46] <skunkworks> :)
[20:26:54] <alex_joni> don't you mean dual core 2 quad?
[20:27:48] <skunkworks> Quad Core Intel&#174; Xeon&#174; E5335, 2x4MB Cache, 2.0GHz, 1333MHz FSB
[20:27:50] <skunkworks> yest
[20:27:59] <alex_joni> cool
[20:27:59] <skunkworks> yes - that is what I meant ;)
[20:28:58] <alex_joni> expensive?
[20:29:45] <skunkworks> 5k about
[20:29:49] <skunkworks> bit more
[20:30:15] <alex_joni> 24h service plan?
[20:30:28] <skunkworks> heh - no - just parts.
[20:30:49] <skunkworks> we can usually figure out what is wrong. that is a very expensive plan
[20:31:02] <alex_joni> yeah, figuring out is not *that* hard
[20:31:15] <alex_joni> having the hardware to replace it is a bit more tricky
[20:31:51] <skunkworks> dell has been pretty good at listening to us.
[20:32:32] <skunkworks> alex_joni: what is the story behind this? http://youtube.com/watch?v=0RH_H7jgQQY&feature=related
[20:33:19] <alex_joni> skunkworks: guy from brasil
[20:33:30] <alex_joni> retrofitted the machine with emc2/AXIS/PyVCP
[20:33:44] <skunkworks> interesting.. (we are a screen printing place.)
[20:33:51] <alex_joni> he runs it production-wise without issues so far (afaik)
[20:34:02] <alex_joni> skunkworks: it's danielbr, he comes in here usually
[20:34:14] <skunkworks> ah - ok. I will remember that.
[20:34:39] <skunkworks> looks like he is running a gcode program over and over.
[20:34:48] <alex_joni> yes, o-word loops
[20:35:01] <skunkworks> nice
[20:35:34] <alex_joni> he had to disable the backplot though
[20:35:49] <skunkworks> slow down did it ;)
[20:35:55] <alex_joni> crashed after a while
[20:36:08] <alex_joni> 8000 loops of code made it a bit big :D
[20:36:30] <skunkworks> I bet
[20:40:33] <AlanR> hey folks! is there any scalar G/M-code? i used to work on a Heidenhain machine that had one but can't find one here..
[20:40:56] <alex_joni> scalar?
[20:41:15] <AlanR> changes the scale of the program or part of it
[20:41:27] <alex_joni> AlanR: nope, not yet
[20:42:16] <AlanR> so for say truetype i'd need to shove it into dxf then scale it and bring it back into gcode?
[20:43:02] <alex_joni> you mean true type tracer?
[20:43:09] <AlanR> yeah..
[20:43:23] <alex_joni> it has a scale variable used at the beginning of the file
[20:43:42] <AlanR> the .ttf file?
[20:43:53] <alex_joni> no.. the ngc generated by true type tracer
[20:44:24] <AlanR> i'll have to pry under its hood then
[20:44:33] <alex_joni> first few lines
[20:44:46] <AlanR> Thanks
[20:58:02] <elogicca_> Hi, Looking to slave 2 axis with indepandant home switches, anyone have any ideas?
[20:58:47] <cradek> gantry?
[20:59:21] <elogicca_> yep
[21:01:00] <cradek> I think we have gantry kinematics in emc2 now. I know at least one person is using it
[21:01:22] <cradek> as it sounds like you already know, homing is what makes it hard
[21:01:31] <elogicca_> tried the sample config, but A axis does not move, i
[21:02:23] <elogicca_> if homing is configurable it's not too bad, move both moters at the same time stop each motor when it hits the switch
[21:02:44] <cradek> yes emc2 can home two axes at the same time
[21:03:02] <elogicca_> but then independantly stop them according to the switches
[21:06:20] <elogicca_> the sample config uses gantrykins, can't seem to find too much about it
[21:14:02] <AlanR> I tried to get the A axis to work for my ganged X according to the examples but it was always one or the other..
[21:14:12] <elogicca_> same here
[21:14:31] <elogicca_> And I do not think wiring the 2 together is an option
[21:14:43] <AlanR> ended up splicing the wires in the parallel cable and they never miss a beat
[21:14:50] <elogicca_> lol
[21:14:56] <AlanR> 2 to 2 & 8
[21:14:57] <elogicca_> but if you have skew adjust
[21:14:57] <cradek> those examples might be out of date. Using A as a linear axis is a bad setup
[21:15:03] <AlanR> and 3 to 3 & 9
[21:16:09] <cradek> gantrykins will hook an axis (X) to two joints
[21:16:21] <cradek> the joints each have separate following error, pid control, etc
[21:16:45] <AlanR> is there up to date documentation on it?
[21:16:46] <elogicca_> right but using the axis interface if i jog only 1 motor runs
[21:17:00] <cradek> did you set up gantrykins?
[21:17:22] <elogicca_> i used the default gantry config using gantrykins
[21:17:44] <cradek> do you mean stepper-gantry?
[21:17:49] <elogicca_> yep
[21:18:06] <cradek> is your machine stepper?
[21:18:15] <elogicca_> yes sir
[21:18:52] <cradek> it has Y running two joints, not X
[21:18:53] <elogicca_> usling the latest emc live cd
[21:19:09] <elogicca_> yeah i have 2 motos on my y axis
[21:19:11] <cradek> joint-1 and joint-3 are both hooked to Y
[21:19:27] <elogicca_> yep and the pins look right also just no action
[21:19:46] <cradek> the pins look goofy, step on 2/3/4/5 and dir on 6/7/8/9
[21:19:53] <cradek> most of the time those alternate
[21:19:57] <cradek> are you sure the pinout is right?
[21:20:08] <elogicca_> yep using a campell board
[21:20:43] <cradek> so you jog Y and get step pulses on which pin?
[21:21:18] <elogicca_> 3
[21:21:32] <cradek> and not 5?
[21:21:43] <elogicca_> nope
[21:22:01] <elogicca_> when i boot win and run mach3 it's all good
[21:22:04] <cradek> how did you check it? halscope or real scope?
[21:22:10] <elogicca_> neither
[21:22:17] <elogicca_> i didn't think of that
[21:25:49] <cradek> maybe something has broken about it. behavior of configurations where number of axes is not equal to the number of joints may have changed recently
[21:25:56] <cradek> unfortunately I can't test it right now
[21:26:34] <elogicca_> i saw conflicting info that in the ini you should only specify xyz and not xyza
[21:27:10] <cradek> yes, that may be a symptom of this change
[21:28:04] <cradek> have you tried both ways?
[21:28:14] <elogicca_> yep
[21:28:20] <cradek> hmm.
[21:28:34] <elogicca_> tried num axis=3 xyz and num axis =4 xyza
[21:29:15] <elogicca_> i saw another posting somewhere where it said to specify the number of axis when loading gantrykins haven't tried that
[21:29:38] <cradek> let us know what you figure out
[21:31:41] <skunkworks> doesn't dallur-thc use gantry kins also?
[21:32:22] <elogicca_> loadrt gantrykins coordinates=XYYZ on the mailing list
[22:05:33] <Gamma-X> anyone know a good website to get some good milling bits?
[22:08:40] <cradek> I get some from enco (use-enco.com)
[22:08:49] <cradek> mcmaster has more variety but is expensive
[22:08:57] <cradek> you can get them anywhere
[22:12:44] <Gamma-X2> thanks cradek
[22:12:56] <Gamma-X2> any certain ones i should get to have to start out with?
[22:13:07] <cradek> how big a machine?
[22:14:26] <cradek> http://www.cdcotools.com/category.php?categoryid=13
[22:14:44] <cradek> these are very inexpensive chinese end mills. I have ordered some things from this company successfully
[22:14:48] <Gamma-X2> 3hp, supermax. table is about 27x 15
[22:15:02] <toastydeath> what spindle
[22:15:20] <toastydeath> r8?
[22:15:22] <cradek> you want a 3/4 roughing mill and 3/4, 1/2, 3/8 end mills
[22:15:51] <cradek> for slotting get 2 or 3 flute, not 4
[22:16:19] <toastydeath> i'd recommend 3 flute across the board
[22:16:35] <Gamma-X2> when u say flute what would that be reffering too
[22:16:43] <Gamma-X2> i dont think its r8
[22:16:53] <Gamma-X2> i couldnt find out whaat spindle it usesd! lol im gettin it this weekend.
[22:17:01] <toastydeath> you better find out
[22:17:06] <ds2> CDCO has some unique stuff
[22:17:12] <toastydeath> because if it's cat40 or 30
[22:17:22] <toastydeath> you are going to be spending a little more on tools than you originally planned on
[22:17:37] <cradek> yeah I was assuming you already have weldon holders etc
[22:17:51] <Gamma-X2> lol
[22:17:55] <Gamma-X2> let me try to find out
[22:18:00] <cradek> sorry, but if you don't know how to count flutes you have no business with a 3HP machine
[22:18:25] <Gamma-X2> go big or go home... lol
[22:18:27] <ds2> other then being in efficient, is there anything bad with using a 2F on everything?
[22:18:31] <cradek> I agree 3 flute is best, but they're harder to find
[22:18:53] <toastydeath> ds2: steel hates it
[22:18:57] <toastydeath> hammers on the surface
[22:18:59] <cradek> ds2: I suppose they're less rigid as well as cutting half as slow
[22:19:25] <ds2> toastydeath: I was told to use 2F's for slotting regardless of material
[22:19:32] <toastydeath> dirty lies
[22:20:02] <ds2> something about being able to hold dimensions better when simultaneously climb/conventional cutting
[22:20:04] <toastydeath> i've never had a problem with 4 flute in slotting
[22:20:10] <toastydeath> no, that's not true at all
[22:20:24] <Gamma-X2> #30 taper w/erickson quick change
[22:20:31] <ds2> I rarely slot and when I do, it is never the right size so I always use an undersize cutter
[22:20:48] <anonimasu> hm, 3 flutes are easy
[22:20:55] <anonimasu> dormer sells them
[22:20:55] <toastydeath> trick to slotting is just coolant, that's it
[22:21:06] <toastydeath> and a gentler feedrate because there's more chip in the gullet than any other kind of cut
[22:21:27] <toastydeath> or air, if you want
[22:21:35] <toastydeath> compressed air to get the chips out
[22:22:05] <JymmmEMC> upcut =)
[22:22:32] <toastydeath> there is no climb or conventional in a slotting operation.
[22:22:46] <cradek> there is if the cutter is undersized
[22:22:58] <toastydeath> then you're not slotting, by definition
[22:23:03] <cradek> Gamma-X2: welcome to the QC30 club. may we never meet on ebay
[22:23:13] <ds2> I don
[22:23:17] <Gamma-X2> cradek what does that mean? lol
[22:23:28] <ds2> t have piles of material to slot and test but that seems like an interesting experiment
[22:23:31] <cradek> QC30 tooling is a bit in demand
[22:23:46] <ds2> should try to convince the shop class instructor to run that ;)
[22:23:55] <cradek> BUT you should know the weldon holders at enco ARE qc30 compatible last time I bought one
[22:24:06] <cradek> I think I have more waiting for me at home, I'll let you know
[22:24:11] <cradek> they are a very good bargain
[22:24:18] <Gamma-X2> sweet
[22:24:20] <Gamma-X2> thanks!
[22:24:23] <cradek> sure
[22:24:24] <Gamma-X2> why wouldnt it be compatible?
[22:24:46] <toastydeath> i am going to laugh so hard when someone eventually wanders in here with an HSK or capto spindle
[22:24:56] <cradek> the flange on regular NMTB30 isn't any particular thickness or diameter. on QC the thickness and diameter both have to be right
[22:25:02] <anonimasu> toastydeath: howcome?
[22:25:12] <toastydeath> because they're so expensive to tool.
[22:25:14] <cradek> bbl
[22:25:20] <anonimasu> toastydeath: ah..
[22:25:24] <anonimasu> I wouldnt mind one.
[22:25:25] <anonimasu> :p
[22:25:40] <toastydeath> well obviously if you were looking for one that would be fine
[22:25:59] <anonimasu> though I think the spindles themselves are expensive ^_^
[22:26:08] <toastydeath> oh no doubt
[22:26:25] <anonimasu> but sweet 55648krpm
[22:26:26] <anonimasu> :p
[22:26:37] <toastydeath> think of all the engraving you could do!
[22:26:45] <anonimasu> oh, I'd like to cut aluminium
[22:26:46] <anonimasu> :p
[22:26:54] <anonimasu> at 80m/min
[22:27:03] <toastydeath> lol.
[22:27:07] <anonimasu> zip zip zip
[22:27:46] <Gamma-X2> how much does an average r-8 collet go for?
[22:27:52] <toastydeath> 30 bucks?
[22:28:01] <toastydeath> watch that number be way wrong
[22:28:06] <toastydeath> hold up.
[22:28:12] <Gamma-X2> lol
[22:28:17] <anonimasu> sounds about right
[22:28:30] <toastydeath> a good r8 collet is about 30 each
[22:28:39] <toastydeath> but cheap sets can be had for like 50 and you get the whole rance
[22:28:40] <toastydeath> *range
[22:28:41] <ds2> I've seen them as low as $4-$5 each
[22:28:45] <toastydeath> they will eat your endmills up though
[22:28:57] <toastydeath> like some sort of bulemic teenager
[22:28:58] <Gamma-X2> wow!
[22:29:15] <Gamma-X2> is it worth it to have many collets than to just swap bits?
[22:29:36] <dmess> yeah they turn any flute end mill into a single pt tool
[22:29:41] <anonimasu> lol
[22:29:48] <toastydeath> it doesn't matter because a regular R8 collet isn't like, a fancy collet
[22:29:50] <ds2> holders are better for CNC then collets
[22:29:50] <anonimasu> it's better to have good tooling and few..
[22:29:53] <toastydeath> when you take the collet out the tool falls out
[22:29:56] <anonimasu> it'll cost you in the long run
[22:30:11] <toastydeath> so it doesn't make sense to have more than one r8 collet in any given size
[22:30:18] <toastydeath> unless you plan on crashing your machine a lot
[22:30:30] <ds2> plan and crashing? hehe
[22:30:42] <dmess> a back-up isnt a bad plan...
[22:30:56] <toastydeath> yeah, it is sort of one of those laws
[22:31:07] <toastydeath> that when you really need a certain size r8
[22:31:15] <toastydeath> every single one in the shop is buggered up somehow
[22:31:17] <dmess> forebobing prophecy
[22:31:32] <toastydeath> the same goes for er collets but those just plain go missing
[22:31:47] <toastydeath> and turn up in like, the china cabinet
[22:32:07] <Gamma-X2> well i dont have r-8 lol i have that #30 tape w / erickson quickchange
[22:32:08] <eric__1> is there any reason to have multiple collets of the same size?
[22:32:26] <toastydeath> in r8, no
[22:32:28] <eric__1> I have tons of DA180 collets
[22:32:31] <toastydeath> in er, yes
[22:32:45] <eric__1> how many should I keep?
[22:32:53] <toastydeath> all of them, i'd say
[22:33:00] <toastydeath> those go in collet chucks
[22:33:09] <toastydeath> you can never have too many collets if they go in a collet chuck
[22:33:25] <eric__1> do I need more than I have collet chucks?
[22:33:29] <toastydeath> yes
[22:33:39] <toastydeath> i've had situations where i've needed like, 5-8 of the same goddamned size
[22:33:48] <toastydeath> it's rare but it happens
[22:33:50] <eric__1> what do you do with them?
[22:34:01] <toastydeath> keep them in a box until you run out of collets on your shelf
[22:34:06] <toastydeath> then go into the box and hunt for the right size
[22:34:12] <toastydeath> oh, you mean how do you use them?
[22:34:23] <eric__1> why would you need more than a few at once?
[22:34:39] <toastydeath> because CAT/BT/HSK/CAPTO/etc
[22:34:44] <toastydeath> all retain the Z depth
[22:34:51] <toastydeath> when you take them out of the spindle
[22:35:11] <toastydeath> so you don't free up a collet when you take it out, you leave the tool in the collet chuck
[22:35:19] <eric__1> ok, but in that case, i don't need more collets than I have chucks
[22:35:31] <toastydeath> i really would keep them.
[22:35:39] <toastydeath> but if you want to sell/throw away, that's also valid
[22:35:56] <eric__1> I was thinking about it, sometimes the prices aren't that great on ebay
[22:36:07] <eric__1> particularly compared to new
[22:36:36] <Gamma-X2> when i look up tooling for that erickson quick change do i type in erickson quick change or 30 taper?
[22:36:56] <eric__1> nmtb 30
[22:37:01] <eric__1> is a good start
[22:37:50] <eric__1> of course, you always have to be aware that a lot of 30 taper stuff doesn't fit
[22:37:50] <toastydeath> for clarification nmtb 30 is the actual taper on the holder
[22:38:02] <anonimasu> night
[22:38:31] <eric__1> my experience on ebay is that 95% of the nmtb 30 will fit a erikson quick change
[22:38:37] <eric__1> ymmv
[22:38:54] <eric__1> nbtb 30 defines more than that
[22:38:58] <eric__1> more than the taper
[22:39:07] <toastydeath> well, yeah
[22:39:10] <toastydeath> the drawbar and the thread
[22:39:49] <eric__1> as in nmtb 30 != cat 30
[22:40:00] <toastydeath> right
[22:40:41] <eric__1> some guy bid 3 times on the motor I wanted, he's the only bidder
[22:40:59] <eric__1> make up your mind dude
[22:41:23] <jepler> whee
[22:41:27] <jepler> * jepler is trying out his "eee"
[22:42:05] <jepler> it's quite small and quiet
[22:42:38] <JymmmEMC> jepler: what, you trying to be a mouse? eeeeeeeeee
[22:42:48] <eric__1> problem with tooling on ebay is that people put it all over the place, and it's probably worth looking for mislisted stuff
[22:42:54] <jepler> nah it's the (admittedly terrible) name of the new asus small form factor laptop
[22:43:07] <JymmmEMC> jepler: oh hte hardriveless one?
[22:43:27] <jepler> JymmmEMC: yes, 4GB solid state disk in this one
[22:43:48] <JymmmEMC> jepler: Have you found if there are other apps you can install on it yet?
[22:44:02] <eric__1> where did you buy it?
[22:44:42] <JymmmEMC> jepler: or does ti come with ssh by chance?
[22:44:55] <jepler> JymmmEMC: you can get a terminal by typing ctrl-alt-t, then "sudo" (passwordless) to root
[22:45:17] <jepler> it has package management by apt-get / dpkg, but by default it only has some asus servers enabled
[22:45:30] <jepler> I've already forgotten -- either ssh client was already installed or it was available to install
[22:45:30] <JymmmEMC> jepler: ah, cool. I only looked at it briefly. Noticed it had a custome OS
[22:45:53] <eric__1> example of nmtb 30 tool that doesn't fit on an erikson spindle without a drawbar:
[22:45:53] <Gamma-X2> anonimasu hey man u there?
[22:45:54] <eric__1> http://cgi.ebay.com/17-PC-ER40-SPRING-COLLECTS-NMTB-30-SHANK-CHUCK-NEW_W0QQitemZ350006151279QQihZ022QQcategoryZ25294QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[22:46:46] <jepler> as far as I know, asus quickly resolved all the license issues they had -- originally they had not released certain parts of the kernel that they had modified.
[22:46:55] <toastydeath> 800watt is known as a really slow shipper
[22:46:57] <toastydeath> just fyi
[22:47:19] <eric__1> tool doesn't work for most of us anyway
[22:47:21] <JymmmEMC> jepler: I JUST found out about this last night... http://store.shopfujitsu.com/fpc/Ecommerce/buildseriesbean.do?series=U810
[22:47:21] <jepler> reportedly you can also now build the wifi driver for other distros and kernel versions if you really want to dump the built-in stuff
[22:47:40] <Gamma-X2> eric__1 what is a draw bar exactly?
[22:47:55] <eric__1> it's a giant bolt that runs through your spindle
[22:48:00] <eric__1> in this case anyway
[22:48:28] <jepler> JymmmEMC: looks interesting -- both more (40GB disk) and less (smaller keyboard) of a computer than this thing
[22:48:39] <toastydeath> holds whatever you are using to hold your tool
[22:48:41] <Gamma-X2> eric_U ohhh and u need an allen key to unscrew it?
[22:48:42] <toastydeath> in the spindle
[22:48:54] <eric__1> 1" wrench
[22:48:56] <JymmmEMC> jepler: Yeah, with touch screen though.
[22:49:56] <Gamma-X2> eric_U so how would I know if I have that if I dont have the cnc in front of me?
[22:50:13] <eric__1> I don't think most of them have it
[22:50:21] <eric__1> what cnc do you have?
[22:50:36] <Gamma-X2> eric__1 supermax ycm-18 from 1989
[22:50:56] <eric__1> takes erikson quick switch tooling?
[22:51:19] <Gamma-X2> eric__1 yes sir
[22:52:42] <eric__1> but you don't have any tooling?
[22:53:40] <Gamma-X2> eric__1 it comes with some but im tryin to find other things that I will need.
[22:54:19] <eric__1> I'm assuming you don't have a drawbar, it would rattle around when you put a tool in there.
[22:54:33] <eric__1> some of the spindles were even solid from what I hear
[22:55:25] <Gamma-X2> eric__1 is that a bad thing? lol
[22:56:03] <eric__1> I couldn't get one in mine now without disassembly or drilling a hole in the family room floor
[22:56:24] <Gamma-X2> eric__1 i actually think it has a power draw bar
[22:56:59] <Gamma-X2> eric__1 its hooked up to an air line and u press a button and the thing shoots out swap tooling line it up and press the button and it sucks it back in.
[22:57:19] <eric__1> that sounds more like cat 30
[22:58:16] <Gamma-X2> eric__1 it may but I know it has an erickson quick change with a power draw abr
[22:58:51] <eric__1> a power drawbar in the erikson quick switch case would basically be an air wrench
[22:58:59] <eric__1> joe vicars makes one
[22:59:09] <eric__1> http://cgi.ebay.com/Toolholders-30-Taper_W0QQitemZ110205459898QQihZ001QQcategoryZ104242QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[22:59:17] <eric__1> that was quick switch
[23:00:57] <eric__1> for those with a cnczone account, here is my mill: http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/854/cat/500/ppuser/1053
[23:01:27] <Ziegler> looking...
[23:02:02] <Ziegler> nice
[23:02:07] <Ziegler> what kind of mill is that?
[23:02:15] <eric__1> bridgeport series II
[23:02:32] <Ziegler> ah cool
[23:03:29] <Ziegler> geez... why does the page keep reloading.. or is that me
[23:03:30] <Ziegler> ?
[23:03:42] <eric__1> I dunno
[23:03:45] <eric__1> maybe my link?
[23:05:51] <skunkworks> eric__1: I didn't know that was you
[23:06:02] <skunkworks> (samco) or atleast I forgot
[23:06:18] <eric__1> hard to keep these things straight
[23:06:22] <skunkworks> yes
[23:09:10] <Gamma-X2> eric__1 well with that setup will i need collets still?
[23:09:19] <eric__1> if it hadnta smushed my finger flatter than a pancake, I'd have it running
[23:09:33] <eric__1> collets are the best tool holders
[23:09:51] <eric__1> the mill holders are a compromise
[23:10:03] <Gamma-X2> what do u mean?
[23:10:19] <eric__1> collets shold give you less runout
[23:10:28] <toastydeath> also less chatter
[23:10:29] <Gamma-X2> ok
[23:11:03] <eric__1> basically, i buy as much tooling as I can afford
[23:11:34] <eric__1> much to my wife's chagrin
[23:11:45] <Gamma-X2> ok
[23:11:55] <toastydeath> can never have too much tooling.
[23:12:41] <eric__1> the other advantage to collets is that it is a little cheaper in the long run
[23:13:02] <eric__1> and more sizes are available
[23:13:14] <eric__1> you could live with only collet chucks and a good collet set
[23:13:31] <Ziegler> how do you get a tool to index in the exact same height with a collet?
[23:13:43] <toastydeath> the collet stays put
[23:13:47] <eric__1> tool setter?
[23:14:01] <eric__1> but the milling holders don't really do that either
[23:14:05] <toastydeath> i guess a better question is what do you mean
[23:14:39] <toastydeath> do you want to set a new tool to the exact same physical height
[23:14:49] <Gamma-X2> will almost all bits fit into my holders? if there the right size like 3/4
[23:14:56] <toastydeath> or just have repeatable Z when you put the tool in the spindle
[23:14:57] <eric__1> with the quick change, the tool holder indexes off of the flange
[23:15:07] <Ziegler> Milling holder clamps down on the tool... so every time you do a tool change... you know the height of that tool.
[23:15:15] <toastydeath> right.
[23:15:25] <Ziegler> Can that be done with a collet?
[23:15:35] <toastydeath> not with regular R8
[23:15:46] <toastydeath> but with other spindle types, it is done very frequently
[23:16:01] <Ziegler> thats what I figured.
[23:16:11] <toastydeath> ER collets in CAT40/50 collet chucks
[23:16:22] <toastydeath> or what have you
[23:16:25] <eric__1> Gamma-X2, there arent that many sizes of end mill
[23:16:43] <eric__1> I have some milling collets that do index the end mill
[23:16:57] <Ziegler> interesting
[23:17:03] <eric__1> probably better than the set screw on a end mill holder
[23:17:10] <Ziegler> so the draw back with too holders is increased chatter?
[23:17:28] <toastydeath> yes
[23:17:38] <toastydeath> the weldon shank ones with the set screw
[23:17:41] <ds2> they make stubby holders
[23:17:48] <Ziegler> any way to help minimize that?
[23:17:50] <Gamma-X2> eric__1 im an honest blatent nube. but what is an index?
[23:17:57] <toastydeath> ziegler: no
[23:18:08] <toastydeath> it's how those things work, they hold the endmill kind of like a windchime
[23:18:20] <toastydeath> rather than all around, they have one line of contact force and a point of pressure
[23:18:26] <Gamma-X2> I sotle 2 tools from work today a melin tool m-42-cobalt 3/4 ccs-2424
[23:18:30] <eric__1> Gamma-X2: the collets locate the tool to be a certain length
[23:18:38] <toastydeath> they work, don't get me wrong
[23:18:39] <ds2> toastydeath: prehaps you would favor a shrink fit holder?
[23:18:45] <toastydeath> i'd favor er collets
[23:18:51] <toastydeath> which don't have that problem
[23:18:55] <toastydeath> and are still reasonably priced
[23:19:06] <eric__1> er seems to be the best for new collets
[23:19:15] <Ziegler> any of you guys ever rigged up a Z indexing "pad"
[23:19:17] <ds2> toastydeath: what would be your answer to buried cuts that suck out endmills?
[23:19:23] <toastydeath> an er collet.
[23:19:35] <Ziegler> er... height indexing pad
[23:19:47] <ds2> ERs aren't that good in gripping, esp those huge corn cob mills
[23:20:00] <toastydeath> i haven't had a problem yet
[23:20:16] <eric__1> I've only ever had a problem with r8
[23:20:25] <toastydeath> same, r8 is notorious for that, ER is not
[23:20:32] <toastydeath> especially if you keep your collets clean before you use them
[23:21:11] <Ziegler> dont hear me wrong.. I use r8 collets and tool holders... im just wondering how you set the height of Z before you continue down the list of gcode
[23:21:22] <Gamma-X2> eric__1 what would I buy to be able to use collets with my erickson quick change?
[23:21:44] <toastydeath> and i do use endmill holders when i am feeling lazy
[23:21:47] <Ziegler> I just jog it down till I cant get the tissue paper out... and zero it
[23:21:54] <toastydeath> i just don't prefer them and will only use them when i don't expect any chatter
[23:22:18] <eric__1> I'd get an er collet chuck
[23:22:50] <toastydeath> ziegler: that's how i do it
[23:23:03] <toastydeath> sometimes a gauge block is used to set big cutters
[23:23:13] <toastydeath> not gauge block but like a 1-2-3 or something
[23:23:15] <toastydeath> not as accurate
[23:23:37] <ds2> toastydeath: the stubby CAT-40 ones with a 1" corncob EM don't chatter much
[23:23:39] <Ziegler> I have been toying with the idea of a piezo element under a large block of hardened steel
[23:24:28] <Ziegler> have that sit in some out of the way position on the mill table...
[23:24:41] <Ziegler> and have the cutter come and "touch" it right after every tool change
[23:24:52] <toastydeath> ds2: i'm not saying that they like, randomly break into chatter for no reason at the slightest hint of contact to metal
[23:25:05] <eric__1> Ziegler: you have R-8?
[23:25:09] <Ziegler> yes
[23:26:12] <eric__1> with cat or nmtb tooling, height doesn't change once you set the tool
[23:26:33] <toastydeath> or an endmill collet chuck or endmill holder
[23:26:36] <toastydeath> in r8
[23:26:47] <toastydeath> which they do make but are pricy per unit
[23:26:52] <eric__1> r8 is never the same height
[23:27:01] <eric__1> unless you have a calibrated arm
[23:27:03] <toastydeath> even on the er collet chucks?
[23:27:14] <Ziegler> unless its a tool holder instead of a collet
[23:27:18] <eric__1> depends on how you tighten it up
[23:27:30] <eric__1> granted, variation is probably small
[23:27:58] <toastydeath> there are those quick change systems
[23:28:02] <toastydeath> which are hella expensive
[23:28:07] <toastydeath> for r8
[23:28:07] <Ziegler> * Ziegler needs to check on tool holder height now too!
[23:28:10] <toastydeath> never used those though
[23:28:19] <Ziegler> some day toastydeath
[23:28:32] <eric__1> those seem a little silly
[23:28:38] <Ziegler> I think I will switch to using a servo machine first! :P
[23:29:01] <eric__1> i want to find a Moog spindle, i have about 200 of the toolholders
[23:29:09] <Ziegler> wow
[23:29:21] <eric__1> $30, couldn't pass it up :)
[23:29:41] <Ziegler> how much for a spindle then?
[23:29:45] <eric__1> cost about the same as the DA300 nuts, which I needed
[23:29:56] <eric__1> priceless
[23:30:00] <Ziegler> lol
[23:30:13] <eric__1> there are probably hundreds rusting away in junkyards
[23:30:25] <eric__1> finding one in transition from machine to junkyard is the trick
[23:30:40] <Ziegler> I go junk yard hiking every month or so
[23:31:04] <eric__1> there is one that would be worthwhile around here, but it's a little far away
[23:31:19] <eric__1> they have electric motors out of diesel electric trains
[23:31:26] <Ziegler> wow
[23:31:36] <eric__1> that's the small motors
[23:31:42] <Ziegler> Wow... that would be something to see
[23:32:10] <eric__1> last time I was there, they had some that were 5' diameter, at least
[23:34:25] <eric__1> enco has one of those r-8 quick change systems
[23:34:52] <eric__1> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=340
[23:35:41] <eric__1> nmtb 30 collet set on the same page, time for ebay i think
[23:36:10] <Gamma-X2> eric didnt see it
[23:36:18] <eric__1> on the left
[23:36:19] <Gamma-X2> wait i got it lol
[23:37:32] <Gamma-X2> wait i already have quick change....
[23:37:50] <Gamma-X2> i still dont see why to use a collet..... it seems like the tool could slip.
[23:38:22] <Ziegler> nah... friction is a wonderful thing
[23:38:52] <eric__1> if the tool surface and collet surface are in good shape it isn't going to slip
[23:38:56] <skunkworks> and wedges ;)
[23:39:00] <Ziegler> LOL
[23:39:06] <eric__1> and big wrenches
[23:39:12] <Ziegler> and wd40
[23:39:21] <Ziegler> *sometimes*
[23:39:31] <eric__1> did I mention cheater bars and hammers on the big wrenches?
[23:39:32] <ds2> jammed chips have ways of overcomming friction at all the wrong places ;)
[23:39:41] <Gamma-X2> any body available for a few mins on some general milling questions there super nube thats why im asking lol
[23:39:59] <Ziegler> just ask
[23:40:53] <Gamma-X2> when setting up a vise on the mill. how do u cut a part the u may need to cut an edge off while its in the vise.
[23:41:22] <eric__1> off the end
[23:41:35] <Gamma-X2> what if I need all 4 edges.
[23:41:43] <Gamma-X2> to be cut
[23:42:00] <ds2> take part out and reclamp
[23:42:23] <ds2> keeping in mind the side you want to reference off should always face the fixed jaw
[23:42:31] <Gamma-X2> when u take the part out arnt you goin to mis align it with the control/ software and code?
[23:42:56] <Ziegler> re-locate it
[23:43:02] <ds2> no, you either use a millstop or re-edge find against the _SAME_ side (flipping your coordinate, if needed)
[23:43:35] <Gamma-X2> ok. im gunna have to get rid of my old control realy soon! lol.
[23:43:48] <skunkworks> Gamma-X2: are you on cnczone?
[23:43:57] <skunkworks> That is a great machining source.
[23:44:00] <Gamma-X2> skunkworks ummm i think so.
[23:44:09] <Gamma-X2> i jsut like the chat cause of instant reply
[23:44:20] <eric__1> when the machinist is using my money, he takes a huge piece of aluminum and uses that to hold the part down
[23:44:59] <eric__1> then he can just mill right into it without hitting anything he had to pay for
[23:46:45] <eric__1> that way he can use his time to make football memorabilia instead of moving my parts around in a vice
[23:47:17] <ds2> softjaws is the term to look up for that
[23:47:17] <eric__1> but I'm not bitter
[23:47:28] <ds2> softjaws can be useful for stuff
[23:47:47] <Gamma-X2> wow i jsut gave my dog a new toy, hes goin nuts! omg! hahaha
[23:47:59] <Gamma-X2> its jsut an empty 2 liter bottle
[23:48:01] <eric__1> I think it's called a 18" x 38" by 3" piece of aluminum, but I'll check
[23:49:02] <Gamma-X2> ds2 softjaws never would have thought about that
[23:49:37] <ds2> Gamma-X2: they are useful when you are dealing with odd shaped stuff or in cuts that will cut into the jaws (just make sure you don't cut away all your support though ;))
[23:49:57] <Gamma-X2> ds2 lol good points
[23:50:16] <Gamma-X2> i wanna machine parts listening to alice coopers poison.....
[23:51:40] <eric__1> I'd like to machine parts instead of wiring things
[23:51:43] <eric__1> maybe someday soon
[23:51:53] <Gamma-X2> lol. eric is there a problem?
[23:52:04] <eric__1> just setting up my mill
[23:52:19] <eric__1> lotsa wires
[23:52:28] <Gamma-X2> eric__1 whats holdin u up from that?
[23:52:50] <eric__1> good question
[23:53:06] <Gamma-X2> shouldnt u be able to do that in 1-2 days? hahaha
[23:53:28] <eric__1> the second one would be considerably shorter
[23:53:42] <Gamma-X2> so then whats wrong with this picture? lol
[23:53:50] <Gamma-X2> TAKE!!!! THESE BROKEN WINGS!
[23:53:55] <eric__1> but I'm being conservative considering the moving parts weigh 2000 pounds
[23:54:02] <Gamma-X2> sorry wayy 2 much red bull.
[23:54:13] <Gamma-X2> eric__1 what kind of machine do u have?!
[23:54:25] <eric__1> bridgeport series II
[23:54:46] <eric__1> weighs over 5000 lb
[23:54:52] <Gamma-X2> why is it so heavy?
[23:54:56] <eric__1> I really need to move it too
[23:55:18] <Gamma-X2> pallet jack. they can lift 5500 pounds
[23:55:32] <eric__1> but you have to get it 6" into the air
[23:55:50] <eric__1> and I don't have one
[23:56:17] <eric__1> I use 2 pieces of black iron pipe, works pretty well
[23:56:17] <Gamma-X2> well just because the machine weighs so much its still basicly the same thing as a smaller cnc machine. go get to wirin!
[23:56:26] <Gamma-X2> eric good idea.
[23:56:33] <eric__1> there are wires everywhere
[23:57:05] <eric__1> there are 2 computers because I'm setting up the drives on windows
[23:57:06] <Gamma-X2> eric, i guess its worse than im thinkin but how bad can it realy be?
[23:57:33] <Gamma-X2> eric__1 why?
[23:57:48] <eric__1> the software that comes with the drives is windows based
[23:58:09] <Gamma-X2> eric__1 ur drives need to be setup?
[23:58:48] <eric__1> they are pretty complex, I'm using brushless servos
[23:58:54] <eric__1> there are a lot of options