#emc | Logs for 2007-12-13

[00:12:42] <robin_sz> ping ping ..
[00:12:50] <robin_sz> is this thing on?
[00:13:49] <Ziegler> ya
[00:13:54] <Ziegler> pong pong
[00:16:30] <robin_sz> so, where can i get EMC for vista?
[00:16:42] <Dallur> ICMP unreachable, Destination Host Unreachable
[00:17:33] <Ziegler> um run vista in ubuntu through vmware
[00:18:07] <Ziegler> then you can have pretty vista up right next to emc!
[00:18:19] <robin_sz> ahh, right
[00:18:57] <robin_sz> I downloaded EMC for XP, but it wont run on vista
[00:19:06] <Dallur> .....
[00:19:27] <dmess> nice... well good luck
[00:20:58] <dmess> emc ported thru a viral dose....
[00:21:05] <Ziegler> hehe
[00:21:34] <Ziegler> wonder if you could get cygwin to "work" with emc
[00:21:52] <jepler> Ziegler: with --enable-sim, maybe
[00:21:56] <jepler> hard to see what use it would be though
[00:21:58] <Ziegler> I think someone here got axis compiled and working
[00:22:07] <Ziegler> right
[00:22:23] <archivist> a certain lack of real time though
[00:22:25] <Ziegler> colinux might give a leg up also
[00:22:36] <Ziegler> but again... for no real purpose
[00:23:13] <Ziegler> any of you guys perl hackers?
[00:23:43] <Dallur> I have used Xming with SSH tunneling and operated Axis/tkemc just fine with remote X11 if that's what you are looking for
[00:23:44] <archivist> er no, the nice thing about perl is you can just slam your fists at the keyboard at couple of times, and you have something that runs and does something, you just wont know what and the maintenance of it will be impossible
[00:24:04] <Ziegler> lol
[00:24:10] <Ziegler> I have a csv file with timestamp like text in one column example row: 08/23/2007 12:38:22.123,123,6,7 ... My question... is there an easy way of replacing the time stamp col (now containing various dates and times) with a unix time stamp?
[00:24:11] <SWPadnos> almost like regular software
[00:24:42] <robin_sz> Ziegler: I code Perl, what you wanna know?
[00:24:46] <SWPadnos> so you want the unix timestamp version of whatever is in that column?
[00:25:21] <Ziegler> robin_sz: I have a csv file with timestamp like text in one column example row: 08/23/2007 12:38:22.123,123,6,7 ... My question... is there an easy way of replacing the time stamp col (now containing various dates and times) with a unix time stamp?
[00:26:38] <robin_sz> theres a million date libraries for perl
[00:27:00] <robin_sz> date/time manipulation is extensive, I get confused with the number of choices
[00:27:41] <Ziegler> ok... well let me make the questions slightly different
[00:28:25] <Ziegler> lets say for some od reason I wanted to add 08/22/2007 in date col and add them all together... is there an easy way to do that
[00:28:28] <Ziegler> odd*
[00:28:51] <Ziegler> err... I wanted to add 08+22+2007
[00:29:06] <SWPadnos> so you want the number 2037?
[00:29:13] <Ziegler> sure
[00:29:34] <Ziegler> but my csv file contains 500,000 lines, and I want it to do it for each row
[00:29:40] <archivist> awk
[00:30:19] <robin_sz> sure
[00:30:31] <robin_sz> just read the file, line at a time ..
[00:30:57] <robin_sz> open(my $file,"<my $csv");
[00:31:16] <cradek> awk -F/ '{print $1+$2+$3}'
[00:31:24] <cradek> < myfile.csv
[00:31:55] <Ziegler> dates are not the only think in the file... its a csv file with multiple data types
[00:32:06] <Ziegler> in different columns
[00:32:46] <SWPadnos> I think without you being reasonably clear about what you want to do, it's hard to be reasonably specific about how you should do it
[00:32:54] <cradek> yeah
[00:33:14] <archivist> just extend the awk line as needed
[00:33:36] <SWPadnos> you could always load it in OpenOffice Calc and do what you want (like format the first column as numbers instead of dates, then re-export to CSV)
[00:33:38] <Ziegler> I have a csv file with timestamp like text in one column example row: 08/23/2007 12:38:22.123,123,6,7 ... My question... is there an easy way of manipulating the time stamp col (now containing various dates and times) to display in various other formats.
[00:33:56] <Ziegler> again, 500,000 lines
[00:33:58] <SWPadnos> I've seen that somewhere before ...
[00:33:59] <SWPadnos> so
[00:34:08] <cradek> that's like me asking whether a new drill should cut on one flute or two, without saying whether it's from harbor freight
[00:34:26] <SWPadnos> hmmm. ok, there's a 65536 line limit in OOCalc, it seems
[00:34:29] <Ziegler> ok... I can do this with a database and php
[00:34:47] <archivist> no need for db
[00:35:10] <skunkworks> I could do it in msaccess (you can now boo me out of here)
[00:35:14] <archivist> php has nice csv reading though
[00:35:22] <SWPadnos> boooooo skunkworks
[00:35:37] <archivist> double booooo
[00:35:40] <Ziegler> but... I was wondering if there was a more simple solution using something like s/\d+\/\d+\/\d+\s+/????/????
[00:36:17] <Ziegler> skunkworks: I actually did do some manipulation ( against my will) in access
[00:36:32] <cradek> what does "in various other formats" mean?
[00:36:46] <Ziegler> the "time stamp" is text
[00:36:48] <cradek> you gave one example and I gave you a trivial solution for it
[00:37:24] <Ziegler> the 2d plotting software I use... cannot recognize it
[00:37:33] <Ziegler> (grace)
[00:38:23] <Ziegler> the date manipulation stuff is not so much of a problem for me to figure out... as using s/// to manipulate what it finds.
[00:39:51] <cradek> jamie zawinski says that when a programmer decides to solve a problem using regular expressions, he now has two problems
[00:40:06] <Ziegler> LOL
[00:40:27] <Ziegler> did I mention I am trying to learn perl a bit more in the process
[00:40:33] <SWPadnos> well, I see some info on using awk to output "seconds since the epoch" log files, but there isn't anything about converting the time string into a usable time first
[00:41:08] <cradek> do you care what the time is, or do you just want to replace it with some arbitrary time?
[00:41:44] <SWPadnos> it seems that the results should be separated by the same number of seconds as the original timestamps
[00:41:49] <SWPadnos> since it's for plotting purposes
[00:43:18] <Ziegler> again... I could care less about dates (for my problem... I need the dates accurate to the tenth of a second ) but in the realm of perl capabilites... how do I scan a file for a pattern, and manipulate parts of that pattern... example... is there a way to set each part of the pattern as a variable and perform mathematical operations on the vars... and then replace it back into the doc?
[00:43:39] <robin_sz> you could do it by hand ... my($y,$m,$d,$h,$m,$s) = $string =~ /(\d{4}).(\d{2}).(\d{2}) ... etc
[00:43:41] <jepler> here's the solution to the original problem in Python: http://pastebin.ca/814137
[00:43:43] <SWPadnos> probably something like split(the_line, ",")
[00:44:06] <jepler> because the date format with fractional seconds doesn't seem to be parsed with time.strptime I resorted to regular expressions for that part only
[00:44:14] <jepler> but for most of the parsing, python's robust, built-in csv parser is used
[00:44:23] <Ziegler> looking...
[00:45:03] <jepler> you can do whatever manipulations on the data you want, keeping in mind that each piece of data on each row is a string -- convert it with int() or float() before doing arithmetic
[00:45:46] <jepler> % echo 08/23/2007 12:38:22.123,123,6,7 | python zieg.py
[00:45:46] <jepler> 1187890702.12,123,6,7
[00:47:38] <Ziegler> cool jepler
[00:53:07] <jepler> of course, you can also form a new output row with any data you want, or decide based on a condition whether you want to output a row at all: http://pastebin.ca/814144 -- there's also no reason why you couldn't call writer.writerow more than once per time through the loop if that's what you wanted.
[00:54:21] <jepler> hi Gran31
[00:58:46] <Gran31> upgraded all to emc2.2. New stepper configuration. When Start EMC, it dies, saying that 1000000 elapsed clocks between interrupts is a problem.
[00:59:10] <skunkworks_> skunkworks_ is now known as skunkworks
[00:59:38] <Ziegler> Ok new question then... my timestamp col is formated like '08/07/2007 12:15:22.986.345' Can I use s/// to remove the last period in the (between 986 and 345)?
[00:59:49] <robin_sz> yes
[01:00:03] <robin_sz> is it always 3 digits?
[01:00:26] <Ziegler> yes it appears so
[01:00:26] <robin_sz> if so, its simple
[01:00:28] <robin_sz> ok
[01:00:34] <robin_sz> from the command line:
[01:01:12] <skunkworks> grand31: exit emc and run 'latency-test' from the command line.
[01:01:46] <skunkworks> let it run for a while - opening windows and running glxgears from command line
[01:01:47] <robin_sz> perl -pi -e 's/(\d{3))\.(\d{3})/$1$2/' myfile.csv
[01:02:14] <Ziegler> ahhh
[01:02:19] <jepler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#Unexpected_realtime_delay_check_dmesg_for_details
[01:02:22] <robin_sz> -pi is in place edit
[01:02:35] <robin_sz> -e is the stuff to do
[01:04:22] <Ziegler> robin_sz: say I wanted to add the number on each side of the period perl -pi -e 's/(\d{3))\.(\d{3})/$1+$2/' myfile.csv ?
[01:04:48] <robin_sz> unsure, try it and see
[01:04:55] <Ziegler> ah.. good point
[01:04:59] <robin_sz> might get a literal +
[01:07:01] <jepler> I'm very rusty on perl, but I believe that s/.../.../e causes the replacement to be treated as an expression (so that it would perform addition instead of having a literal "+" in the result)
[01:07:30] <robin_sz> right, could well be
[01:08:48] <robin_sz> personally, Id read throught he file line at a time, split it out into vars, mung them, reassemble the line
[01:08:51] <robin_sz> longer
[01:08:56] <robin_sz> but mainatainabel later
[01:09:14] <Ziegler> which takes longer to process?
[01:09:21] <Ziegler> or would it be about the same?
[01:10:03] <robin_sz> perl -pi is prolly faster
[01:10:19] <Ziegler> I am all about maintainability, but I have over a gig of this type of data to get through
[01:10:25] <robin_sz> for dealing with .csv files, try perls Text::xSV module,
[01:10:28] <robin_sz> most handy
[01:10:34] <Ziegler> cool
[01:10:54] <SWPadnos> are there any text strings in the file (ie, fields that may contain a comma within quotes)?
[01:11:02] <Ziegler> this chan should be called #emc (and sometimes perl)
[01:11:07] <SWPadnos> no!
[01:11:08] <robin_sz> http://search.cpan.org/~tilly/Text-xSV-0.16/lib/Text/xSV.pm
[01:11:13] <Ziegler> no text
[01:11:32] <Ziegler> err... no text with quotes
[01:11:33] <SWPadnos> ok, then you can do a pretty simple cascaded awk script as well
[01:11:37] <robin_sz> doesnt matter
[01:11:40] <Ziegler> ok
[01:11:46] <robin_sz> read that link :)
[01:12:13] <SWPadnos> but since awk and perl are almost identically obfuscated for this type of task, you may as well make a perl version work ;)
[01:13:16] <robin_sz> you can make Perl as plain as english if you want
[01:13:30] <robin_sz> no reason to make it obfuscated unless it ticles you
[01:13:41] <SWPadnos> huh
[01:13:47] <SWPadnos> I wonder why nobody has ever done that
[01:13:58] <robin_sz> my code i always prefectly clear
[01:14:03] <Ziegler> my perl book at work mentions that.. but I havn't gotten that far to figgure out how
[01:14:05] <SWPadnos> for how long? ;)
[01:14:20] <Gran31> jepler? Thx. Have a nvidia card. will replace and retest.
[01:15:52] <Jymmm> anyone have a NON-DESTRUCTIVE way to tell if a cellphone display cover is glass or plastic?
[01:16:37] <robin_sz> hammer?
[01:18:38] <skunkworks> angle of refraction..?
[01:18:44] <skunkworks> heh
[01:18:58] <robin_sz> hammer is easier
[01:21:13] <fenn> Ziegler: perl is really slow
[01:21:24] <cradek> if the reflection shows that it isn't flat, it's likely plastic
[01:21:31] <cradek> also, if you can distort the reflection by pressing on it
[01:22:08] <skunkworks> although - most of the glass is pretty thin...
[01:22:23] <toastydeath> if you press on it and it breaks and you get shards in your finger
[01:22:25] <toastydeath> you know it is glass
[01:22:30] <fenn> jymmm weigh it
[01:22:33] <skunkworks> cradek: how is the c axis coming?
[01:23:03] <fenn> then weigh it in water
[01:23:04] <cradek> almost done. I'm drilling holes for setscrews in the motor coupling now
[01:24:37] <Ziegler> shoot X-rays at it and measure the fluorescence or absorbtion spectrum
[01:24:42] <Ziegler> :-P
[01:24:56] <toastydeath> ziegler wins =(
[01:25:09] <cradek> haha
[01:25:32] <SWPadnos> dunk it in water and estimate the index of refraction from that
[01:26:17] <Ziegler> weight might do it
[01:26:42] <Ziegler> supose it might be considered destructive getting it off
[01:27:29] <skunkworks> I would just try to scratch it at the edge with a sharp knife.
[01:27:37] <skunkworks> but that is just me
[01:27:54] <robin_sz> I still think the hammer test is simplest
[01:28:01] <SWPadnos> actually, the least destructive, but not necessarly the most accurate method, is to see how cool it feels to the touch. glass conducts heat well, plastic doesn't
[01:28:24] <dmess> http://youtube.com/watch?v=9nwTFMH7Xoo
[01:28:26] <robin_sz> hmmm
[01:28:33] <SWPadnos> if you cool it down a little (stick it in the fridge for a few minutes) then a glass cover will feel cooler than plastic (for most plastics)
[01:28:35] <dmess> mildly NUTS
[01:28:41] <skunkworks> what do you do with the finger print though?
[01:31:06] <dmess> work FAST hold ONLY the ends/edges of the tube... done deal
[01:32:40] <SWPadnos> that is way NUTS
[01:32:49] <SWPadnos> I'd love to do it, but I'd probably shit my pants
[01:33:16] <dmess> it IS dine while making rotary glass scales Everyday....
[01:33:47] <dmess> id jump in an instant.... no fears
[01:34:58] <dmess> to fly that in a HG would be a RUSH... never mind on my own 2 arms
[01:43:03] <robin_sz> gimme a nice paraglider, id launch off their easy
[01:43:07] <robin_sz> but a bat suit?
[01:43:10] <robin_sz> shiver
[01:44:37] <skunkworks> jmk had posted a video of a guy with a jet suit
[01:46:14] <SWPadnos> I had to look through several manuals and other documents to find out that they do actually use parachutes to land
[01:47:25] <dmess> the para would'nt fly the route...
[01:48:34] <dmess> yes.. but Pheonix out of the US says they will be able to land it by next summer (2008)
[01:49:53] <dmess> this is a SUICIDAL sport that could lead to Exponential research...
[01:52:46] <dmess> some of the verticals could be done by h/g but NEVER in a pg... a/s issues
[01:53:51] <dmess> unless you are willing to fly on B-line stall for the majority of the flight
[01:54:25] <dmess> and other places GROW wings...
[01:55:24] <dmess> could i launch him from 1 of our winches???
[01:56:02] <dmess> have 76 mph speed limit... i wonder
[03:38:02] <Gamma-X> hey I wanted to know if em2c will hold the same tolerances as any other standard controller on the market? I have a supermax ycm-18 with a anilam crusader II controller, I want to upgrade and it looks as though ajaxcnc is "giving" away this software with there kits.
[03:38:31] <jmkasunich> tolerances depend on your machine and configuration
[03:38:38] <jmkasunich> software has next to nothing to do with it
[03:39:01] <cradek> hi jmk
[03:39:04] <jmkasunich> hi cr
[03:39:08] <jmkasunich> adek
[03:39:19] <jmkasunich> damn tab completion
[03:39:19] <cradek> haha
[03:39:20] <Gamma-X> wow.
[03:39:42] <cradek> jmkasunich: toothpick worked
[03:39:43] <Gamma-X> this software project I have to say is amazing.
[03:39:58] <jmkasunich> cradek: sometimes old tricks are the best
[03:40:00] <Gamma-X> can anyone help me with the hardware side of this?
[03:40:25] <jmkasunich> Gamma-X: depends on what kind of help you need
[03:40:37] <jmkasunich> the more general the question, the harder it is to answer
[03:41:08] <Gamma-X> well basicly i want a standalone computer to operate my cnc, and i need to know wich controls to buy etc. what cards or hardware i should buy.
[03:41:26] <Gamma-X> asfar as I know the machine has anilam dc servo motors in it.
[03:41:52] <jepler> by default, emc blends subsequent motions, which means it does deviate from the mathematically exact programmed path (G64). this can be turned off so that the deviation between two segments is zero (G61), or set by parameter so that the deviation is no greater than a given value (G64 P-)
[03:41:59] <SWPadnos> you should see how much of the Anilam system is usable - servos, servo drives, etc.
[03:42:20] <SWPadnos> if you decide to use the anilam servo drives, then you need to buy hardware that ouputs the correct signals to drive them
[03:42:32] <SWPadnos> (like +- 10V analog outputs)
[03:42:52] <Gamma-X> swp if I can I am going to.
[03:44:49] <Gamma-X> wich hardware would output those signals and wich pci or isa card should I buy?
[03:45:18] <SWPadnos> well, let me start by saying that I'm not going to tel;l you what to buy, but I will offer some suggestions :)
[03:45:28] <Gamma-X> id appreciate it a lot.
[03:45:44] <SWPadnos> there are several servo controller cards around: servo-to-go, Motenc, and Mesa
[03:45:44] <Gamma-X> i want something comparible in performance to the ajaxcnc and centroid machines.
[03:46:00] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
[03:46:01] <SWPadnos> I tend to like the Mesa cards, because I'm a programmer and they're FPGA based (and reprogrammable)
[03:46:30] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure if anyone here has used wither centroid or ajaxcnc units, so comparisons will be pretty fruitless
[03:46:30] <Gamma-X> i am not a programmer by far lol
[03:46:38] <SWPadnos> either, not wither
[03:47:01] <cradek> for +-10V drives looks like the options are mesa, vital, ppmc
[03:47:43] <SWPadnos> of those, I think the Mesa may be the best supported (at least, I'm sure that more developers have Mesa cards than Vital or PPMC)
[03:48:00] <SWPadnos> though the PPMC also work quite well
[03:48:02] <Gamma-X> so i should pretty much get the mesa products/
[03:48:11] <cradek> Vital has ADC if you need that
[03:48:20] <SWPadnos> also available for the Mesa ;)
[03:48:31] <cradek> developers are using mesa and ppmc
[03:48:49] <Gamma-X> cradek what is adc?
[03:48:56] <SWPadnos> analog to digital conversion
[03:48:59] <jepler> SWPadnos: not in 2.2
[03:49:02] <cradek> analog input to the motion controller
[03:49:02] <Gamma-X> oh wow
[03:49:07] <jepler> unless you know something I don't
[03:49:23] <SWPadnos> useful if you want to measure things like spindle load or temperatures, etc.
[03:49:26] <Gamma-X> whats mesa's website?
[03:49:28] <cradek> you don't need ADC except in special cases
[03:49:37] <jepler> http://mesanet.com/
[03:49:39] <SWPadnos> jepler, well, I'd have to work a bit before I commit that driver
[03:49:56] <SWPadnos> also, the cards I have are expensive as hell until I do a respin
[03:50:15] <Gamma-X> respin?
[03:50:25] <SWPadnos> make a new revision of the PC board
[03:50:38] <cradek> mesa and ppmc work well. I've personally worked on full size machines using both of these systems recently
[03:50:54] <jepler> the 5i20 PCI card, the 7i37 isolated I/O board, and the 7i33 analog servo interface boards are the ones most likely to be of interest to you.
[03:51:22] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[03:51:29] <Gamma-X> cradek wich one would be most user friendly and upgradable?
[03:52:03] <SWPadnos> there is no "user-friendly" hardware ;)
[03:52:03] <cradek> Gamma-X: I don't know...
[03:52:35] <cradek> I think they both have excellent support
[03:52:51] <Gamma-X> ok
[03:52:58] <Gamma-X> well wich would u buy?
[03:53:04] <cradek> haha
[03:53:19] <cradek> I bought mesa products for my bridgeport.
[03:53:35] <Gamma-X> http://cgi.ebay.com/Bridgeport-CNC-Retrofit-Control-Boss-Mill-Router_W0QQitemZ270194725590QQihZ017QQcategoryZ162QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[03:53:39] <Gamma-X> is that e2mc?
[03:53:41] <steve_stallings> Gamma-X: older Anilam controllers used +/- 10 volt DC to command a conventional driver for a brushed servo motor with tach feedback
[03:54:03] <jepler> Gamma-X: no
[03:54:15] <steve_stallings> these systems used linear glass scales for position feedback and were rather slow to settle
[03:54:16] <Gamma-X> steve, I have a ycm-18 im told it has glass scales and they are servos not steppers.
[03:55:08] <steve_stallings> the resolution of the glass scales is only moderate, not sufficient to provide feedback to a system that does not accept tach feedback for motor speed
[03:55:39] <Gamma-X> steve_stallings well it seems your a lot more knowledgable than i am lol What is ur opinion on what I should do.
[03:55:45] <steve_stallings> if you can accept similar performance, speed wise, then EMC can run the existing drives
[03:56:16] <Gamma-X> i am told is does 100inches per minute.
[03:56:29] <steve_stallings> newer Analim systems used rotary encoders on brushless motors for better performance
[03:57:17] <steve_stallings> the speed limitation I referred to was more related to the time to settle, or in EMC terms, following error
[03:57:32] <cradek> that seems pretty slow for a full size servo mill
[03:57:47] <steve_stallings> like I said, sort of sluggish
[03:57:55] <Gamma-X> well i only paid 2,000 bucks for it.
[03:58:04] <Gamma-X> so id say i still got a deal.
[03:58:24] <cradek> does it work at all right now?
[03:58:30] <Gamma-X> yup
[03:58:31] <steve_stallings> I did not mean to imply it was not a useful system, just that the feedback approach had limitations
[03:58:59] <Gamma-X> it has a crusader II system on it now.
[03:59:07] <Gamma-X> but it can only hold 999 lines of code.
[03:59:50] <cradek> my mill holds "100 feet" of code
[04:00:15] <Gamma-X> steve_stallings im thinkin that the em2c would prolly need differant servos on this mill?
[04:00:46] <cradek> Gamma-X: "emc2"
[04:00:59] <steve_stallings> for improved performance you would need encoders on either the motor shafts or the ball screws, the motors and servo amps themselves are OK
[04:01:03] <Gamma-X> im sorry.
[04:01:57] <steve_stallings> Analim was primarily a vendor of glass scales and thus had a vested interest in promoting systems that used them, even if they were not the best solution
[04:02:00] <Gamma-X> U r realy smart / and i feel realy dumb! haha.
[04:02:30] <cradek> wonder if the motors have a way to mount an encoder on the back
[04:02:47] <Gamma-X> steve_stallings can u recomend the encoders?
[04:03:34] <steve_stallings> cradek's question is relevant here as I do not remember where/how you could mount the encoders
[04:03:51] <Gamma-X> hmm
[04:04:13] <Gamma-X> i think i can mount them on the back and modify the back casing. ( sumtin iread on cnczone.
[04:04:27] <steve_stallings> if the mechanical issues can be solved easily, I would recommend www.usdigital.com for encoders
[04:05:47] <Gamma-X> what would the encoder be doin exactly?
[04:06:02] <steve_stallings> choose the mechanically best one that fit your budget and select a resolution that gives about 10X the resolution you want to acheive
[04:06:27] <Gamma-X> wow i have no clue what im lookin for hahahaha.
[04:06:41] <Gamma-X> im such a nube, I know linux but i dont know these cnc machines lol
[04:06:46] <Gamma-X> what a combination.
[04:06:48] <steve_stallings> the encoder provides the feedback that EMC uses to monitor and control the motor drive signals
[04:06:58] <jepler> 'night all
[04:07:03] <SWPadnos> see you jepler
[04:08:33] <Gamma-X> how would I be wiring it. Motion control- amplifier to encoders?
[04:08:40] <steve_stallings> things that enter into the picture are the number of turn per inch of your ball screws (probably 4 or 5), the drive ratio between the motors and the screws, and the number of encoder counts per revolution
[04:09:31] <Gamma-X> how and why do u know all of this. lol
[04:09:56] <steve_stallings> hopefully you can add the rotary encoders while keeping the existing tachs
[04:10:16] <steve_stallings> this will allow good performance with the existing amps and power supplies
[04:10:40] <steve_stallings> the encoders go to an interface card that allows EMC to read the encoder data
[04:11:16] <Gamma-X> so i need a motion control and the encoders? thats it hopefully?
[04:11:39] <steve_stallings> usually the same interface card will allow EMC to produce a voltage, typically +/-10 volts, fed to the amp to control the motor velocity
[04:12:30] <Gamma-X> wich interface would u recomend with that brand encoder u told me?
[04:12:38] <Gamma-X> would optical be the best?
[04:12:51] <steve_stallings> optical encoders are the norm today
[04:13:48] <steve_stallings> EMC supports several interfaces that can work with your amps and an optical encoder
[04:14:02] <Gamma-X> wich one do u have?
[04:14:11] <Gamma-X> the mesa?
[04:14:33] <jmkasunich> Gamma-X: we know next to nothing about your situation.... why do you keep asking us to tell you what to do?
[04:14:53] <steve_stallings> several of the EMC developers have MESA cards (it takes two items) and that probably means that assistance will be more available for MESA than others
[04:15:33] <Gamma-X> jmkasunich im asking steve cause he has not stopped talking about my brand equipment.
[04:15:59] <cradek> the ppmc guy works closely with us too. his support comes with his products but (I think) none of the active developers are personally using them
[04:16:15] <Gamma-X> ok.
[04:16:44] <SWPadnos> remember, we're volunteers here, so we (at least I) don't want to take any responsibility for your actions
[04:16:49] <SWPadnos> ie, I'm not going to tell you what to do
[04:16:59] <steve_stallings> I have a set of MESA cards, loaned out to a friend who is converting and older Hurco machine, I personally have not implemented a servo system on EMC, I have worked on Anilam setups
[04:17:00] <Gamma-X> I understand
[04:17:05] <cradek> yes that's why we're all being evasive when you want us to decide for you
[04:17:24] <Gamma-X> lol.
[04:18:00] <cradek> and, you'll be more confident of your decisions if you take the time to do the research yourself
[04:18:30] <cradek> that being said, I bug steve for advice sometimes too :-)
[04:18:38] <cradek> and, well, everyone else here
[04:18:53] <SWPadnos> the other steve ;)
[04:19:09] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
[04:19:16] <Gamma-X> lol
[04:19:34] <Gamma-X> cradek Thanks!
[04:19:37] <cradek> this is a great page. you can contact the vendors and see for yourself how they want to help you work with emc2
[04:19:56] <steve_stallings> note, steve_stallings has worked with Bridgeport Boss-8, Hurco, and Anilam controls trying to keep old stuff alive, but he has little experience actually doing things with EMC
[04:20:13] <SWPadnos> hmmm. should I have a donut with a glass of milk, or just a glass of water?
[04:20:30] <Gamma-X> donut and milk!
[04:20:36] <cradek> SWPadnos: do your own research and decide
[04:20:36] <Gamma-X> u only live once.
[04:20:43] <cradek> :-)
[04:20:46] <Gamma-X> hahah
[04:20:48] <SWPadnos> well, I was leaning toward that, but it's relatively late here
[04:20:58] <SWPadnos> decisions, decisions ;)
[04:21:29] <SWPadnos> ok, I'll have the donut - it is a chocolate covered chocolate donut
[04:30:03] <Gamma-X> I gtg thanks for the help everyone it means a lot. -Rob
[04:30:13] <cradek> goodnight
[04:30:30] <SWPadnos> good night, and good luck :)
[05:07:56] <arh> newbie here: OK to just put out EMC2/AXIS questions, or is this channel for other stuff?
[05:08:51] <SWPadnos> as kaway
[05:08:54] <SWPadnos> err
[05:08:56] <SWPadnos> ask away
[05:08:59] <arh> thx
[05:09:17] <SWPadnos> but it's getting late for most of the regulars - you may need to check back later for an answer
[05:09:23] <SWPadnos> (there are logs)
[05:10:33] <arh> Years ago (previous live, different controllers) in order to do a manual tool change, I would raise the Z, do an M0, manually change the tool, use manual jog control to re-zero the Z, jog it back to the Z coord the controller had left it at, then resume the program. But....
[05:11:19] <arh> ... on EMC, when the M0 executes, the manual jog controls are disabled. Is there another way to do a manual tool change, re-zero the Z, and resume?
[05:11:25] <SWPadnos> yep
[05:11:38] <SWPadnos> I don't have specifics, but I believe they're on the wiki
[05:11:46] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[05:11:55] <SWPadnos> first, for tool changes there's a program called hal_manualtoolchange (or similar)
[05:11:56] <arh> Hmm, looked there, but I'll look closer. Thx...
[05:11:58] <toastydeath> uh
[05:12:04] <toastydeath> why do you need to do anything but change the tool?
[05:12:27] <SWPadnos> that program pops up a dialog when a tool change is requested, and you click a button once the tool has been changed
[05:12:28] <arh> because the new tool will have a different relative cut depth than the first one.
[05:12:38] <toastydeath> what are you using to hold the tool?
[05:12:43] <SWPadnos> basically, the operator is the automatic tool changer as far as EMC is concerened :)
[05:12:48] <arh> since it's a manual change, there's not good way to positively register the relative Z offset.
[05:12:54] <arh> ER16 collet on a micro-mill
[05:13:06] <toastydeath> the collet nose itself is er16?
[05:13:11] <SWPadnos> toastydeath, most people don't have toolsetters and 100 tool holders
[05:13:19] <toastydeath> well i was hoping it was r8
[05:13:22] <SWPadnos> so tool touch-off is needed
[05:13:37] <toastydeath> and that 30 bucks would get you a R8 collet chuck
[05:13:37] <arh> nope, no shoulder inside to register the tool, etc.
[05:13:37] <cradek> the best way I think is a length sensor
[05:13:43] <cradek> just a switch on the table
[05:13:56] <SWPadnos> there's a script that will measure a tool and apply a length offset semi-automatically, I believe
[05:13:57] <arh> yeah, I'd like a touchoff solution, but I don't have it in place yet...
[05:14:15] <cradek> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/nc_files/tool-length-probe.ngc?rev=1.4
[05:14:26] <SWPadnos> right - that one :)
[05:14:40] <arh> Cool, thx for the link, I'll look at it.
[05:14:41] <cradek> this is the scheme I use. It's just a microswitch hooked to a parallel port input pin
[05:15:22] <SWPadnos> you should be able to program a toolchange position, so EMC will move to that position, ask for a tool change, then move back. I'm not sure exactly how that probe code fits in
[05:15:39] <SWPadnos> that file should be included with EMC2.2
[05:15:41] <arh> Just FYI: I'm micro-machining .008 wide slots with a micro ball-end mill that only has .030 cutting depth. Getting the Z re-homed correctly after the toolchange is pretty critical... 8^)=
[05:15:57] <toastydeath> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ER32-R8-7-16-COLLET-CHUCK-CNC-MILLING-LATHE-NEW-A80_W0QQitemZ110204005924QQihZ001QQcategoryZ12584QQcmdZViewItem
[05:16:00] <cradek> arh: meanwhile the easiest thing to do is put each tool's gcode in its own program
[05:16:05] <arh> OK, I'll upgrade and check, currently running 2.1.7
[05:16:26] <SWPadnos> cradek, that file is in 2.2, isn't it?
[05:16:32] <arh> yeah, splitting the prog up into different pieces was my next (easy) answer, I just didn't want to do that if I didn't need to.
[05:16:48] <cradek> SWPadnos: I think so
[05:17:00] <SWPadnos> ah yes - according to the revision graph
[05:17:12] <SWPadnos> didn't want arh to upgrade for naught :)
[05:17:31] <arh> appreciate that...
[05:17:36] <cradek> yes for transient length offset you need emc 2.2
[05:18:15] <arh> OK, this is good stuff, thx you guys -- have good evening!
[05:18:43] <cradek> arh: I've found a basic microswitch will repeat within .0005 or less
[05:18:49] <toastydeath> http://www.tormach.com/Product_TTS.html
[05:18:57] <cradek> you can never do that well touching off manually
[05:19:15] <cradek> I'm quite stunned how well it works
[05:19:24] <SWPadnos> night arh
[05:23:21] <arh> cool, thx for the pointer to the microswitch
[05:23:24] <arh> night, all
[05:25:58] <Gran3D> My minimill is now running with emc2.2. The major contributor to the timing problem seemed to be a USB memory stick. Thanks to all
[05:30:37] <arh> cradek: sorry, I thought the link from toastdeath was from you for the microswitch (too late/tired). Do you have a link handy for the .0005 repeatable microswitch handy?
[05:44:30] <CIA-8> 03seb 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/ (mesa7i43-gpio.h mesa7i43_gpio.comp): Improved timing of I/O operations during module load/board init.
[07:52:31] <Jymm> Jymm is now known as Jymmmmmmmm
[08:47:40] <Jymmmmmmmm> Jymmmmmmmm is now known as Jymm1
[10:38:19] <PI3> hi
[10:39:06] <PI3> I need info about EMC supported PCI cards
[10:40:02] <PI3> a saw http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2_Supported_Hardware
[10:40:15] <PI3> but I still have question(s)
[10:44:31] <archivist> just ask and hang around people are not allways at their screen but often look in
[10:49:55] <PI3> thx
[10:51:08] <PI3> I would like to order an Axiom Measurement & Control AX5214H 48 Channel Digital I/O Board (ISA)
[10:52:32] <PI3> but the people in Garmany (Axiom.de) have only PCI
[10:55:07] <PI3> so my question is: does EMC support DASP-52048 (PCI card) from Axiom or only the AX5214H (ISA)
[11:07:40] <alex_joni> the driver in emc2 only supports AX5214H
[11:07:50] <alex_joni> I don't see any PCI support inside that driver
[11:10:31] <PI3> thanx
[12:19:36] <alex_joni> meep
[14:09:55] <nbuck> alex_joni jmkasunich - Just wanted to let you know that I've implemented the mods to the hal component ordering and it appears to have fixed the homing off an index problem. Just wanted to say a very big thankyou for all your help. It's very much aprreciated. Will report back when I get the automatic tool changing completed.
[14:10:44] <alex_joni> nbuck: that is *very* good news
[14:10:56] <alex_joni> seems like we still know what we're talking about :)
[14:11:06] <alex_joni> (which comes a bit as a surprise to me :)
[14:11:15] <nbuck> without a doubt!
[14:11:32] <alex_joni> nbuck: don't forget flowers & cookies
[14:11:38] <alex_joni> err.. I mean fotos & videos
[14:11:47] <alex_joni> :-P
[14:12:20] <nbuck> will do. Also I was wondering is there a mechanism for making donations to the emc project as a thank you?
[14:12:38] <alex_joni> nbuck: not at the moment
[14:12:55] <alex_joni> but on more than one occasion it was suggested
[15:45:34] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RH_H7jgQQY
[15:57:41] <fenn> hypocycloid gearing looks a lot more practical than "harmonic drives"
[16:00:26] <fenn> wow that silkscreen thing looks complicated
[16:01:16] <fenn> is that in brazil?
[16:03:17] <archivist> "harmonic drives" just have to have a fatigue life
[16:03:33] <fenn> not if you keep it under the elastic limit
[16:03:52] <jepler> ah, I had never thought of this as the reason that gear ratios are often not exact ratios of small integers: If the ratio of the number of teeth on mating gears were a small integer, wear might be distributed periodically, not uniformly. This was pernicious with early hand-made gears, but is not a great problem with modern accurate gears. To eliminate this problem, an extra tooth was added to one gear, called a hunting tooth, which had only a small effec
[16:04:04] <archivist> still get fatigue in the elastic region
[16:04:41] <fenn> it depends on the metal, aluminum always fatigues, i dont think steel does necessarily
[16:05:14] <archivist> fatigue life is allways in the elastic region
[16:06:16] <fenn> jepler: you got cut off after "hunting tooth"
[16:07:15] <SWPadnos> oh, interesting
[16:07:33] <SWPadnos> use a 100:11 ratio and you don't have cyclic wear
[16:07:50] <SWPadnos> at least, not at the ratio of the gears, but at the product of the number of teeth
[16:08:47] <Jessica> hi folks. is it appropriate to ask general home-build questions in here, or is there a better channel?
[16:08:59] <fenn> this is the place
[16:09:03] <Jessica> ty
[16:09:06] <SWPadnos> should be OK, but you get a much better reception if you're using EMC ;)
[16:09:11] <Jessica> heheh
[16:09:16] <fenn> do you live in bloomington indiana?
[16:09:22] <Jessica> wtf???
[16:09:26] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:09:36] <fenn> i noticed your ip address is the same as mine
[16:09:40] <SWPadnos> dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net
[16:09:40] <Jessica> someone scanning ips?
[16:09:52] <Jessica> yeah, fenn... nearby
[16:09:55] <fenn> i live on the south side of town
[16:10:18] <fenn> didnt know anyone else was into CNC.. you should come to IU robotics club or something
[16:10:24] <Jessica> all good, fenn. it's a small world!
[16:10:38] <Jessica> is it open to non-IU folks?
[16:10:58] <fenn> yeah, i practically run the thing and i have no affiliation with IU
[16:11:26] <Jessica> all good. I'll send you my email in a bit
[16:12:03] <Jessica> (owns a mitsubishi move master arm and 1.5 home built mills)
[16:13:27] <Jessica> ok, so I'm using a 1/4-20 zinc plated steel drive screw, coupled with a brass nut in my table. should i go with unplated instead?
[16:13:35] <fenn> yes
[16:13:44] <Jessica> what's the reason?
[16:14:02] <fenn> the plating is not even, and the friction coefficient between brass and steel is better than brass/zinc
[16:14:10] <fenn> brass is a zinc alloy, so it makes sense that it would want to stick
[16:14:56] <Jessica> thx. it's getting replaced today!
[16:16:03] <fenn> how are you going to deal with backlash?
[16:16:17] <fenn> it's a big problem when doing pcb stuff
[16:17:37] <Jessica> well, my budget cant swing a proper drive screw, so this is the best i can do at the moment.
[16:17:50] <Jessica> i make most of my PCBs using toner-transfer anyway
[16:18:03] <Jessica> i get good solid .5mm traces that way
[16:18:06] <fenn> cradek reports that these work pretty well: http://dumpstercnc.com/
[16:18:31] <fenn> you could make one pretty easy i think (for a standard thread anyway)
[16:18:51] <fenn> do you use a laminator to transfer? or just an iron?
[16:19:03] <Jessica> i just got a laminator
[16:19:14] <Jessica> it work ok. better than an iron
[16:19:23] <fenn> i found the laminator was much crisper, and then my laminator melted :)
[16:19:36] <fenn> wasn't designed for the high temperature i guess
[16:19:47] <Jessica> hehe
[16:20:02] <Jessica> i bought a gbc 125 on ebay for $25
[16:20:19] <Jessica> i've used a t-shirt press before. those are very nice
[16:20:58] <fenn> interesting - can do doublesided?
[16:21:20] <Jessica> how much backlash am i gonna get with a 7/8" brass nut on steel threaded rod?
[16:21:29] <Jessica> I think it could. haven't tried yet
[16:22:03] <Jessica> phone. bbiab
[16:22:05] <fenn> well, it depends on the nut.. hardware store nut will have maybe .005"
[16:23:21] <Jessica> (typing while holding the phone.) got mine at mcmaster carr
[16:23:40] <Jessica> only place i could find brass
[16:25:15] <fenn> zowee $30 for a brass 7/8 coupling nut?
[16:25:55] <Jessica> hmmm... didn't think so...
[16:26:07] <Jessica> dunno. i just ordered it.
[16:26:20] <Jessica> I have some one else pay the bills! *grins*
[16:27:23] <Jessica> I have a partner in england who is funding all my crazy inventor chick activities. I couldn't do this crud on my own.
[16:28:14] <archivist> loose money near meeeeee
[16:28:53] <Jessica> where are you arc?
[16:29:00] <archivist> england
[16:29:07] <Jessica> yeah, but where?
[16:29:16] <Jessica> I lived in London myself
[16:29:17] <archivist> east midlands
[16:29:18] <Jessica> loved it
[16:31:15] <cradek> Jessica: the smallish acme screws from mcmaster are inexpensive and are much better than triangle thread for this
[16:31:43] <cradek> I used 1/4-16 on my tabletop mill
[16:32:30] <Jessica> chris, you have partnumbers?
[16:32:35] <cradek> looking
[16:33:00] <Jessica> ty
[16:33:29] <Jessica> i was hoping that 1/4-20 would give me a little better resolution
[16:33:48] <cradek> is this direct coupled to a stepper?
[16:33:59] <SWPadnos> you're better off using an accurate screw and gearing between motor and screw
[16:34:50] <Jessica> yeah, direct to a nema-23 stepper
[16:35:10] <cradek> when you do the math you will find that you have lots of resolution
[16:35:23] <cradek> especially if you're half stepping or microstepping
[16:36:26] <cradek> http://www.mcmaster.com/ctlg/DisplCtlgPage.aspx?ReqTyp=CATALOG&CtlgPgNbr=3097&RelatedCtlgPgs=3097,1051&fam=acmethread&ppe=7&ppr=2&psm=4&psl=7&k1=93410A606&t1=PN&k2=98935A803&t2=PN&k3=99030A032&t3=PN&k4=99030A432&t4=PN&k5=98940A628&t5=PN&k6=98940A729&t6=PN&k7=95061A801&t7=PN&sesnextrep=94094874837938&ScreenWidth=1600&McMMainWidth=689
[16:36:32] <cradek> yuck
[16:36:33] <cradek> no idea if that link will work for you
[16:36:35] <SWPadnos> christ, that's a big URL
[16:36:48] <cradek> you can go as cheap as $7/3ft
[16:37:18] <SWPadnos> 3/8-12 is $4.75/3ft
[16:37:25] <fenn> i discovered inadvertently last week that you can't take backlash out of an acme nut if it's cut with a "centering" tap
[16:37:42] <fenn> such as what you get when you cut the nut using a piece of leadscrew as the tap
[16:38:55] <fenn> well, can't take out the backlash by compressing a split nut radially, that is
[16:38:55] <Jessica> foo. i need to take this call. i'll bbiab.
[16:39:12] <cradek> SWPadnos: 3/8 is kind of big for nema-23 which has a 1/4 shaft
[16:39:41] <cradek> hmm, but maybe if you turn off the threads you can get a nice 1/4 left over for a simple straight coupler
[16:39:42] <SWPadnos> oh, indeed
[16:39:47] <SWPadnos> sure
[16:39:59] <SWPadnos> the stiffness is better, though the inertia is a bit worse
[16:40:00] <cradek> wonder what the root diameter of 3/8 acme is
[16:40:13] <fenn> and if you turn it, you can make nice 6mm lands for skate bearings
[16:42:58] <SWPadnos> well, according to Nook Industries, a 3/8-1 screw has .238 root diameter, and 38-5 has 0.282
[16:43:16] <SWPadnos> so 3/8-12 should be around .375 ;)
[16:43:35] <SWPadnos> oh, there it is - 0.263
[16:44:39] <fenn> there are different thread depths too
[16:45:02] <SWPadnos> they don't seem to offer different depths, except as they vary with pitch
[16:45:44] <fenn> is Nook mcmaster's el-cheapo supplier?
[16:45:59] <SWPadnos> dunno - I just did a google search for acme screw root diameter
[16:46:03] <fenn> ok
[16:47:03] <Jessica> how do those dumpstercnc 1/4-20 anti-backlash nuts work? whats the theory of operation behind them?
[16:47:14] <archivist> there is a spec somewhere for 14.5 deg acme iirc
[16:47:25] <SWPadnos> the two nuts push on opposing sides of the screw
[16:47:30] <fenn> the spring pushes on a sleeve which makes the nut close like a collet
[16:47:41] <SWPadnos> so there's pressure (preload) in both directions
[16:47:49] <fenn> no that's not how it works
[16:48:02] <Jessica> with enuf force to overcome torque and momentum?
[16:48:12] <fenn> (there is preload in both directions though, due to the angle of the screw thread)
[16:48:51] <cradek> the nuts are split axially and compressed onto the screw so the pitch diameters always touch
[16:49:08] <fenn> the spring isn't supplying force in the axial direction, it's only clamping the nut onto the thread
[16:49:15] <cradek> right
[16:49:17] <Jessica> ok.
[16:50:02] <Jessica> so, if you use a longer nut, like a 7/8", doesn't the increased number of threads average out to do the same kind of thiing?
[16:50:23] <SWPadnos> only if the pitch is wrong
[16:51:07] <SWPadnos> when you turn the screw in one direction, one side of the thread pushes the nut. turn the other direction and the other side of the thread pushes the nut the other way
[16:51:16] <cradek> a longer nut will probably wear longer but that's all
[16:51:50] <fenn> usually a longer nut is used to average out errors in the thread, for accuracy (not precision)
[16:52:27] <Jessica> ok. that makes sense
[16:54:39] <Jessica> fenn, when does the robotics club meet?
[16:54:58] <fenn> thursdays 7 or 7:30 in eigenmann (northeast side of campus)
[16:55:10] <Jessica> every thursday?
[16:55:44] <Jessica> taking a break now for the winter?
[16:56:00] <fenn> well, apparently that discussion is happening right now on the mailing list, will forward to you
[16:57:41] <Jessica> k
[16:57:41] <Jessica> thx
[17:46:47] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[18:01:06] <anonimasu> ^_^
[18:09:47] <GNoMeK> hello ;]
[18:13:01] <GNoMeK> Anyone here ?
[18:13:58] <archivist> for a short while /me waiting for the last coffee of the day
[18:24:19] <alex_joni> GNoMeK: hello
[19:07:53] <alex_joni> quiet today
[19:14:46] <cradek> archivist: apparently he didn't want to talk to you
[19:43:47] <tommyt> is anyone here?
[19:45:19] <SWPadnos> nobody but us chickens, as they say
[19:45:40] <alex_joni> tommyt: not me
[19:46:54] <fenn> lots of new people lately - think that's because of the 2.2 release?
[19:48:12] <fenn> maybe just the alignment of the planets
[19:48:31] <tommyt> yea.. i'm definitely a newbie
[19:48:58] <tommyt> i'm looking to convert my mill into a cnc using emc2
[19:49:06] <tommyt> any good places to look for recommended motors?
[19:49:18] <anonimasu> what kind of mill is it?
[19:49:21] <tommyt> bridgeport
[19:49:26] <anonimasu> ok :)
[19:49:38] <SWPadnos> do you want servos or steppers?
[19:50:02] <SWPadnos> (hint: servos are probably better for this class of machine, but tend to be more expensive overall)
[19:50:05] <tommyt> from what i've been reading the steppers seem to be performing well (and i have some drivers at work for free :) )
[19:50:15] <SWPadnos> ok, free drivers are hard to argue with
[19:50:19] <tommyt> haha
[19:50:37] <SWPadnos> is this a retrofit ofa manual mill, or a CNC upgrade to an NC or CNC machine?
[19:50:45] <tommyt> retrofit
[19:50:58] <SWPadnos> ... of a manual mill.
[19:51:01] <tommyt> yep
[19:51:08] <SWPadnos> ok - same as mine then, I bet :)
[19:51:26] <fenn> "yet another unfinished retrofit"?
[19:51:34] <tommyt> good.. well you're still talking about it so it can't be THAT bad
[19:51:51] <tommyt> i hope its not going to be unfinished :)
[19:51:58] <SWPadnos> I have servos for mine, I'm not entirely sure about the kind of steppers you'd need
[19:52:11] <tommyt> what kind of torque is required?
[19:52:13] <SWPadnos> I think 800-1100 oz-in is the right range, but I'm not positive
[19:52:27] <SWPadnos> DC servos are in the 30 in-lb range (continuous)
[19:52:35] <cradek> there were factory stepper bridgeport machines. maybe you could find out what they used.
[19:53:04] <anonimasu> also be sure to check out prices vs servos
[19:53:04] <SWPadnos> I think those were old-style 800 oz-in or so, but they didn't perform all that well (comparing to servo machines)
[19:53:37] <cradek> yes I don't think they were that great
[19:53:41] <tommyt> brb
[20:26:24] <tommyt> are you still active SWPadnos?
[20:27:09] <SWPadnos> yes
[20:27:23] <alex_joni> oh he just seems like he is..
[20:27:29] <SWPadnos> shhhh
[20:27:35] <lerneaen_hydra> hey all, I thought of a cheap I/O idea earlier today, instead of piping quadrature in or out through the parport, couldn't you have a parallel bus (say 8 bits) that contain the position to move to with an additional X bits (say 2 for a three axis system) which muxes the output to individual encoders/drives?
[20:27:47] <lerneaen_hydra> or does that already exist?
[20:27:48] <SWPadnos> I'm actively looking for some inexpensive travel to warm places :)
[20:27:58] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: you discovered a USC
[20:28:12] <lerneaen_hydra> usc?
[20:28:15] <SWPadnos> or a pluto-step, mesa 7i43, etc.
[20:28:15] <alex_joni> except that is uses EPP to send commands faster
[20:28:20] <SWPadnos> Universal Stepper Controller
[20:28:24] <alex_joni> universal stepper controller from Pio
[20:28:25] <SWPadnos> from Pico Systems
[20:28:27] <alex_joni> Pico even
[20:28:35] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, do they attach via the parport?
[20:28:40] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: yup
[20:28:40] <SWPadnos> yes
[20:28:52] <lerneaen_hydra> sweet, are the pcb diagrams free too?
[20:28:56] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: ask something else.. I wanna beat SWPadnos
[20:28:58] <seb_kuzminsky> the 7i43 doesnt do quad decode yet, still waiting on the hostmot2 firmware from mesa
[20:28:59] <alex_joni> nope
[20:29:11] <tommyt> SW: how did you hook the motors up to the tables?
[20:29:14] <SWPadnos> then there are more advanced systems, which use something like ethernet, fiber optic, or firewire connections for the commands
[20:29:25] <alex_joni> tommyt: so far he used duct tape
[20:29:30] <tommyt> haha
[20:29:31] <SWPadnos> seb_kuzminsky, do you have the Xilinx tools?
[20:29:43] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, I see, does the USC use hardware logic or a microcontroller?
[20:29:43] <SWPadnos> I can probably shoehorn the hostmot code into the 7i43 here if you don't
[20:29:48] <SWPadnos> FPGA
[20:29:54] <lerneaen_hydra> ah, I see
[20:30:00] <seb_kuzminsky> yes but i havent installed them yet... need to clear up a handful of gigs on my laptop...
[20:30:00] <SWPadnos> hey - I bought servo mounts fair and square
[20:30:06] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:30:10] <SWPadnos> that is a problem, isn't it
[20:30:20] <alex_joni> * alex_joni just had to clear about 10G the other night
[20:30:22] <lerneaen_hydra> shouldn't that be doable with a very minimal number of physical components? fpga's are relatively expensive
[20:30:29] <SWPadnos> 1.7G for the download, about the same after unpacking, then ~3G for the install
[20:30:31] <seb_kuzminsky> data is a gas - it expands to fill available storage
[20:31:01] <seb_kuzminsky> swpadnos: if you can get me a firmware image i'd love to play with it
[20:31:09] <SWPadnos> FPGAs are cheap, when you consider that you need to interface to the parport (with the associated timing), then have registers to hold the step frequency, then the step generators, etc.
[20:31:26] <seb_kuzminsky> pcw at mesa is actively working on it, we should have something going in the next month or so
[20:31:27] <SWPadnos> I can probably make one, but I can't test it, since I have no 7i43's here at the moment
[20:31:40] <SWPadnos> I should probably order one or two, shouldn't I
[20:31:49] <lerneaen_hydra> SWPadnos, hmm, for use as output I can see the reasons for using an fpga
[20:32:14] <lerneaen_hydra> but for an input it would seem cheaper to use dedicated hardware
[20:32:25] <SWPadnos> and for input, a quadrature reader in an FPGA is much less expensive than specialized chips
[20:32:37] <tommyt> are you running ball screws?
[20:32:39] <SWPadnos> you can also have programmable noise filtering for simple digital inputs
[20:32:43] <lerneaen_hydra> aren't fpga's $20+?
[20:32:53] <SWPadnos> tommyt, yes, I bought them from Machine Tools Direct, $650 or so
[20:32:54] <seb_kuzminsky> fpgas are so much the right answer - make the hardware as flexible as software....
[20:33:04] <SWPadnos> lerneaen_hydra, some are, otherss are <$3
[20:33:20] <SWPadnos> some are $10,000 and up as well
[20:33:43] <seb_kuzminsky> mesa is selling the 7i43 for $80
[20:33:54] <tommyt> how much would you say the system cost you to put it together?
[20:34:09] <alex_joni> tommyt: including the priceless fun part?
[20:34:27] <tommyt> haha
[20:34:48] <alex_joni> how fast do you plan to get it done?
[20:34:53] <tommyt> i dont think we have to price in the hours of sleepless nights
[20:34:58] <tommyt> over a couple of months
[20:35:08] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:35:10] <alex_joni> nope.. but slow and steady sure beast fast and furious
[20:35:32] <tommyt> once i get this mill going, i have 4 other mills i'd like to attempt
[20:35:33] <SWPadnos> my system cost way more than it should have - I bought the mill, other machine tools, lots of parts, and all tooling/measurement equipment
[20:35:36] <Jymmm> useless you are making a move =)
[20:35:38] <SWPadnos> I started at ground zero
[20:35:49] <Jymmm> movie
[20:36:13] <tommyt> i'm just trying to see what its going to cost to get the CNC portion going
[20:36:15] <SWPadnos> I got a lot of stuff on eBay, which is fine for one machine, but not if you want to retrofit several
[20:37:20] <tommyt> i have a pretty good supply of motors (i work at an automation house) so i think actually the motors and drives will be cheap if not free
[20:37:41] <SWPadnos> I spent $350 on motors, $400 on X+Y mounts, $300 on a Z drive kit, $650 on ballscrews, $150 on a VFD, a few hundred on misc. switches and contactors, $300 or so on servo connectors, and that's just what I remember off the top of my head
[20:37:42] <alex_joni> tommyt: it depends how far you want to go
[20:37:46] <alex_joni> spindle speed control?
[20:37:58] <alex_joni> custom panel? buttons, knobs, switches, handwheels?
[20:38:03] <alex_joni> tool changer?
[20:38:11] <tommyt> i dont really need spindle speed, tool changer
[20:38:20] <SWPadnos> oh, I forgot about the pulleys/belts, misc computer equipment, servo interfaces, gecko drives, power supply components, etc.
[20:38:24] <tommyt> ideally what i would like is an x/y cnc
[20:38:44] <SWPadnos> ($100, $600, $600, $350, $350 or thereabouts, respectively)
[20:39:04] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: gecko drives?
[20:39:13] <SWPadnos> yes, I have G340s
[20:39:21] <alex_joni> hmm.. plan to use those?
[20:39:23] <SWPadnos> err - G320s now
[20:39:36] <alex_joni> haha, someone took off the G9xx :)
[20:39:49] <SWPadnos> I probably will, at least until I find some reasonably priced analog drives
[20:39:54] <SWPadnos> heh - yep - got a refund even
[20:40:10] <SWPadnos> I got the USC after the geckos, so I downgraded
[20:40:13] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: you can always lift a pin inside the G340 and run it like an analog am
[20:40:18] <alex_joni> am
[20:40:21] <alex_joni> ampppp
[20:40:36] <SWPadnos> I almost fired up Altium yesterday to start designing an ARM board for the G-Rex
[20:40:47] <tommyt> i think one of the parts that i don't understand how it works is the computer/stepper driver interface.. what generates the pulse/direction for the drive?
[20:40:48] <SWPadnos> then I decided I was too lazy to finish it :)
[20:41:01] <alex_joni> tommyt: emc does that part
[20:41:05] <SWPadnos> check the wiki for supported hardware - there are several options
[20:41:10] <alex_joni> tommyt: that's what brought you to #emc :)
[20:41:14] <tommyt> yea.. through the parallel port
[20:41:17] <SWPadnos> parallel port is one, Mesa, USC, pluto are others
[20:41:20] <alex_joni> tommyt: the simple way is parport
[20:41:25] <alex_joni> simple/cheap/limited
[20:41:30] <SWPadnos> right
[20:41:38] <tommyt> ok.. but good to get me started :)
[20:42:16] <tommyt> good.. i saw the pin definitions in the .ini file.. so emc will just toggle those pins in realtime?
[20:42:22] <alex_joni> right
[20:42:24] <SWPadnos> for < $100, you can buy hardware that will generate far smoother steps, and will count quadrature much faster than you can in sioftware (if you want servos)
[20:42:33] <alex_joni> sometimes as fast as 30-40kHz fast
[20:42:46] <SWPadnos> that also reeduces the specs of the PC you need for EMC to run on
[20:42:59] <SWPadnos> incidentally, you waid you had free drives at work - what kind are they?
[20:43:16] <tommyt> i have a couple different ones all pulse and direction
[20:43:19] <tommyt> from RMS technologies
[20:44:02] <SWPadnos> the R701 looks like a gecko clone (or OEM drive)
[20:44:11] <tommyt> haha yea.. thats the exact ones i have
[20:44:14] <SWPadnos> otherwise, they're all way too underpowered for this size mill
[20:44:46] <SWPadnos> funny - they charge more than Geckodrive does :)
[20:46:07] <tommyt> i'll have to check out the geckodrives
[20:46:17] <tommyt> where did you get your motors from?
[20:46:27] <SWPadnos> eBay
[20:46:30] <tommyt> haha ok
[20:46:39] <SWPadnos> I haven't seen many servos that are the right size recently
[20:46:54] <SWPadnos> these are $1000 motors (each) if you get them from distribution
[20:47:05] <tommyt> yea.. thats what we run into here all the time
[20:47:06] <SWPadnos> that includes the encoder though, so it's not as bad as it sounds
[20:47:16] <SWPadnos> well, it is as bad as it sounds, but it works nicely :)
[20:47:21] <tommyt> hahahaha
[20:47:42] <SWPadnos> the motors I have are Baldor MTE-4070-BLBCE
[20:47:58] <SWPadnos> I think the current model is a 4090 instead of 4070
[20:48:01] <tommyt> oh ok
[20:48:48] <tommyt> is there a huge functional difference between the steppers and servos in actual cnc'ing
[20:48:58] <SWPadnos> for this size machine, I think so
[20:49:18] <SWPadnos> you need far larger steppers than servos, since steppers lose torque at higher speeds
[20:49:33] <tommyt> right..
[20:50:07] <tommyt> well... i guess the first step is trying to find the mounts for the mill
[20:50:19] <tommyt> i'm checking machine tools direct now
[20:50:29] <SWPadnos> mounts are a big pain
[20:50:42] <seb_kuzminsky> but most cutting happens at relatively low speed, so the low-speed torque of steppers might be more useful than the high-speed torque of servos, no?
[20:50:42] <SWPadnos> I have some drawings I made when I thought I'd make my own
[20:50:55] <SWPadnos> sometimes
[20:51:18] <SWPadnos> it's true that the torque curve of a tepper is helpful that way
[20:51:21] <SWPadnos> stepper
[20:51:37] <tommyt> i thought the servo was a pretty constant torque curve
[20:51:51] <SWPadnos> servos have a constant torque curve, steppers don't
[20:52:08] <tommyt> agreed
[20:52:19] <tommyt> do you still have those drawings?
[20:52:41] <SWPadnos> sort of - I'm not sure how I can export them, and the company that made my CAD software is out of business (so I can't ask)
[20:52:59] <tommyt> what file type?
[20:53:09] <SWPadnos> cadmax
[20:53:12] <tommyt> hmm
[20:53:21] <alex_joni> no dxf export?
[20:53:30] <tommyt> the typical solidworks or autocad cant import them?
[20:53:31] <SWPadnos> I can proably export to parasolid, and might be able to export to DXF for the 2D drawings
[20:53:47] <SWPadnos> dunno, I don't ahve the typical solidworks or audocad :)
[20:54:01] <tommyt> oh haha.. i will check whats the extension
[20:54:02] <tommyt> ?
[20:54:10] <SWPadnos> err - lemme check
[20:54:37] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: IGES, ACIS sat or STEP are quite common for solids
[20:54:58] <SWPadnos> IGES was a $500 add-on to the $300 software, so I don't have it :)
[20:55:14] <alex_joni> I can convert between the above at no cost :P
[20:55:33] <alex_joni> I think it also imports rhino solids
[20:55:39] <SWPadnos> ACIS and STEP are not options, so I have none of those formats available ;)
[20:56:17] <SWPadnos> it looks like the files have x_t and x_b extensions - though I do see some dxf and dwg files here as well
[20:56:28] <SWPadnos> it's been a while since I've looked at this stuff, if you can't tell
[20:57:15] <tommyt> did you get them from mtdinc.com?
[20:57:24] <SWPadnos> eBay ;)
[20:57:25] <tommyt> it doesn't look like they have a whole lot
[20:57:37] <SWPadnos> nope - they only had 2 sets left, and I bought one
[20:57:45] <tommyt> haha well played
[20:57:51] <SWPadnos> let me see if that auction is still up
[20:59:20] <SWPadnos> well whadad ya know? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110080947943
[20:59:43] <SWPadnos> they're for NEMA 34 motors, and mine are NEMA 42, but that's reasonably easy to correct
[21:01:33] <tommyt> those look pretty nice
[21:01:38] <tommyt> thanks!
[21:01:53] <SWPadnos> one thing - you'll need to buy some imperial shoulder screws to mount them to a BP
[21:02:07] <SWPadnos> unless your mill has metric threads for the bearing blocks
[21:03:10] <tommyt> ok
[21:03:19] <SWPadnos> http://www.mcmaster.com/asp/enter.asp?partnum=90298A718
[21:03:33] <SWPadnos> hmmm - one sec
[21:03:35] <tommyt> its seems i need a ball screw with this is that true?
[21:03:45] <SWPadnos> they aren't necessary, but they are "better"
[21:04:22] <SWPadnos> http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?partnum=90298A718&pagenum=3014
[21:04:23] <SWPadnos> there
[21:06:40] <tommyt> fantastic
[21:07:20] <SWPadnos> note: I have these, and they loko good, but I haven't mounted them on the machine yet so I can't tell you how well they perform
[21:07:23] <SWPadnos> look
[21:15:26] <fenn> those brackets look so easy to make
[21:15:36] <SWPadnos> yeah, but they aren't
[21:16:04] <SWPadnos> you could cast them and cut down the machining time significantly, but that's a process I don't have set up here
[21:16:12] <fenn> yes, that's what i was thinking
[21:16:29] <SWPadnos> also, accurately measuring the ballscrew location is very difficult, and according to JonE, it may vary from machine to machine
[21:16:31] <fenn> are they anodized or poweder coated?
[21:16:37] <SWPadnos> which should make it easier, but you never know
[21:16:42] <SWPadnos> powder coated
[21:17:06] <cradek> have you both seen the motor mounts made from square cross section steel?
[21:17:14] <fenn> i guess the three screws have some slop for getting the ballscrews aligned right
[21:17:22] <SWPadnos> I had originally planned to use the existing bearing blocks and just mount a motor bracket on top, but there are depth issues to deal with
[21:17:29] <fenn> yah i think i posted that
[21:17:48] <SWPadnos> cradek, yes, I had thought of that approach as well, but the tube needed for a BP is pretty big - like 6x4" or something
[21:18:05] <SWPadnos> and there's still the stack-up issue to deal with
[21:18:50] <SWPadnos> I have another problem, which is that the ballscrews I have are about 1/4" longer than the table needs, so I have to make a shim plate
[21:19:00] <SWPadnos> (which I've been too lazy to do so far :) )
[21:19:30] <cradek> 1/4" thick with some holes in it?
[21:20:04] <SWPadnos> sort of - slightly under 1/4" (hard to measure), very parallel surfaces, with some holes and other cutouts
[21:20:52] <cradek> hmm, hard to measure doesn't help, but it sounds pretty easy
[21:20:55] <SWPadnos> of course, all this machining starts with cleaning/organizing the garage, which is part of the reason why I'm so lazy
[21:21:13] <SWPadnos> getting to the machine is a pain, let alone moving it while under power
[21:21:22] <SWPadnos> (ie, using it)
[21:21:27] <cradek> hmm
[21:21:46] <cradek> your progress on conversion will be slow if you can't get near the machine
[21:21:49] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:21:57] <SWPadnos> not much slower, actually ;)
[21:22:42] <fenn> get some tubs, label them, start throwing stuff in tubs
[21:22:48] <fenn> stack them up and you're done
[21:23:02] <fenn> it's not like you'll ever use any of it anyway :)
[21:23:09] <SWPadnos> unless I actually want to put the Jeep in the garage this winter
[21:23:11] <cradek> good idea. vertical piles of crap are much better than horizontal piles of crap
[21:23:15] <SWPadnos> indeed
[21:23:22] <SWPadnos> and stackable piles are much better too
[21:23:30] <SWPadnos> rather than piled-up stacks
[21:26:28] <rob-h> hi all
[21:26:34] <cradek> hi
[21:26:49] <rob-h> got a q on EMC and encoders
[21:27:46] <rob-h> can EMC use A- and B- chanel from encoders to ineffect double the resolution, so take 2500 encoder into a 10000pulse encoder saving on some nice cash
[21:27:54] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: What good is a jeep in the garage in the winter time?
[21:27:55] <cradek> yes
[21:28:09] <cradek> you get 4x the resolution if you use each edge
[21:28:37] <rob-h> grate stuff, as im gunna be going with the mesa card
[21:29:08] <rob-h> shame no one resells them over here in UK
[21:29:33] <SWPadnos> I can sell you some ;)
[21:29:54] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, it lets me go 4-wheeling without having to brush off snow
[21:30:03] <SWPadnos> I think you californians forget about snow
[21:30:14] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yeah, we like our mud =)
[21:30:29] <SWPadnos> we get hat too, but only fora month or so in the spring
[21:31:28] <Jymmm> Offbeat question... Is this correct.... there are some SSR rated for inductive loads, and soem that are not?
[21:32:02] <SWPadnos> dunno. I've certainly seen some rated for AC vs. DC
[21:32:24] <Jymmm> Or is it a matter of getting an SSR that is rated to handle initial spike currents?
[21:32:35] <SWPadnos> if anyone does rate theirs for inductive loads, it's probably because they have large inrush current
[21:32:37] <SWPadnos> right
[21:32:39] <Jymmm> like 40A when you really only need 13A peak
[21:35:10] <Jymmm> Like this, but is the Chinglish desc wrong, or am I missing something... http://cgi.ebay.com/Solid-State-Relays-SSR-24-220V-DC-40A-Heat-Sink_W0QQitemZ230200835465QQihZ013QQcategoryZ78207QQcmdZViewItem
[21:36:14] <Jymmm> New and rated at 40A + heatsink
[21:36:29] <SWPadnos> that's a DC output type, so it's true that an inductive load wouldn't work so well (since those are generally AC)
[21:36:46] <Jymmm> Oh, let me look some more...
[21:37:55] <Jymmm> 25A AC http://cgi.ebay.com/Solid-State-Relay-SSR-24-480V-AC-25A-Heat-Sink_W0QQitemZ230202586160QQihZ013QQcategoryZ78207QQcmdZViewItem
[21:38:24] <tommyt> do you also have scales on the machine as a backup to the encoders?
[21:38:31] <SWPadnos> nope
[21:38:44] <SWPadnos> I'll have good limit swithces though :)
[21:38:47] <SWPadnos> gah
[21:38:49] <tommyt> haha
[21:38:50] <SWPadnos> switches
[21:39:10] <tommyt> did you get your ball screws on ebay too?
[21:39:23] <SWPadnos> yep - from MTD, but they seem to be out of stock
[21:39:27] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: " Load could not be inductive type." or is that in resepct to DC inductive
[21:39:38] <SWPadnos> I just searched, and the only set I saw was $1075
[21:39:51] <SWPadnos> it says they're for DC loads, not AC
[21:40:02] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: No, this one says AC
[21:40:12] <SWPadnos> ok - I don't know then ;)
[21:40:22] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: different auction
[21:41:01] <SWPadnos> right - I still don't know what would make one SSR good for inductive loads vs another that isn't
[21:41:11] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[21:42:01] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is sooooooooooo confused =(
[21:42:25] <Jymmm> * Jymmm takes that back, just trying to be cheap and use SSR instead of contactors.
[21:42:39] <SWPadnos> SSRs are great, and they don't wear out
[21:43:54] <Jymmm> Oh, as far as control goes, should I switch the load side, or the control side of the SSR's? (AUTO/OFF/ON)
[21:44:15] <SWPadnos> what?
[21:44:35] <SWPadnos> when you change the control side, the load side turns on or off - that's what a relay does
[21:45:28] <SWPadnos> oh - for a switch
[21:45:34] <Jymmm> I'm going to add toggle switch (AUTO/OFF/ON), I can either wire in the switch on the control side, or wire it on the load side. I just figured the load side would be safer, but on the control side, would be low voltage.
[21:45:46] <SWPadnos> I'd do the control side - it keeps the high voltages away from things you poke with your finger
[21:46:27] <SWPadnos> I suppose it is somewhat safer to do the load side, at least for the off case
[21:46:29] <Jymmm> Should I include a pull down resistor? Or do SSR's never trigger in an unsafe way
[21:46:35] <SWPadnos> dunno
[21:46:38] <Jymmm> lol
[21:46:50] <Jymmm> If YOU don't know, I'm fscked =)
[21:46:55] <SWPadnos> it's possible that an SSR could burn out such that it's on, maybe
[21:47:01] <SWPadnos> ask jmk when he gets back ;)
[21:47:29] <anonimasu> ssr?
[21:47:29] <SWPadnos> but then again, that's what E-STOP is for
[21:47:33] <anonimasu> serial shift register?
[21:47:33] <SWPadnos> solid state relay
[21:47:35] <anonimasu> sh
[21:47:37] <anonimasu> :p
[21:47:40] <Jymmm> Solid State Relay
[21:47:48] <SWPadnos> Soviet Socialist Republic
[21:47:57] <Jymmm> U
[21:48:58] <Jymmm> Heh, I rember in skool the maps/global had in BIG FAT LETTERS U S S R across it
[21:49:12] <SWPadnos> yep
[21:49:33] <SWPadnos> now you actually have to look at the names of all the countries they took over ;)
[21:49:40] <Jymmm> heh
[21:58:31] <Gamma-X> hello all.
[21:59:18] <cradek> hi
[21:59:59] <alex_joni> hi
[22:00:39] <Gamma-X> im tryin to decide now on if i want to build this thing on my own or just buy an ajax kit.... anyone ever use the ajax/centroid cnc software?
[22:01:06] <SWPadnos> from what I saw, Ajax will nickel and dime you to death when you want "additional features"
[22:01:31] <cradek> but the answer to your question is probably no, nobody here has used it
[22:01:32] <SWPadnos> as an example, it looks like their G-code interpreter doesn't support the S word for spindle control, unless you want to pay them an extra $325
[22:01:42] <SWPadnos> right - I certainly haven't used it
[22:01:48] <Gamma-X> lol wow.
[22:01:54] <SWPadnos> Steve S may have some hands-on experience with it
[22:01:58] <Gamma-X> wel my machine doesnt have spindle control
[22:02:17] <Gamma-X> its a manual speed control, i was thinkin of puttin a servo on it and makin it automated...
[22:02:19] <cradek> mine doesn't either, but it will
[22:02:26] <Gamma-X> cradek what u gunna do?
[22:02:30] <cradek> a vfd is easier, but you could do either way with emc
[22:03:15] <Gamma-X> well... whats a vfd? sorry to sound so ignorant on this subject but I am lol
[22:03:49] <cradek> your motor runs one speed right now. it can run that speed or slower. a driver box for it that does this is called a vfd
[22:03:57] <alex_joni> V.F.D. is a secret organization within the children's book series A Series of Unfortunate Events by Lemony Snicket
[22:04:14] <anonimasu> :)
[22:04:16] <alex_joni> sorry.. couldn't resist.. it's a variable frequency drive
[22:04:30] <alex_joni> Gamma-X: similar to light dimmers.. just designed for motors
[22:04:32] <cradek> mine is 2HP and a nice VFD drive for it was about $300. EMC will be able to signal to it what speed to go
[22:04:33] <Gamma-X> lol
[22:04:57] <alex_joni> anonimasu: did you see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RH_H7jgQQY ?
[22:04:59] <SWPadnos> ebay often has drives in that size range for $100-$150
[22:05:18] <anonimasu> yes
[22:05:20] <anonimasu> looks really nice
[22:05:41] <cradek> currently I don't like the 400-500rpm range where I have to run it very fast in low gear. it sounds like a jet engine and has some vibration that shows up on the part.
[22:06:14] <Gamma-X> cradek i have a 3hp, but it has a low and high speed button... what do i do?
[22:06:20] <alex_joni> how about this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP5GcTeU6Gs&feature=related
[22:06:30] <anonimasu> no
[22:06:35] <anonimasu> well, just a bit before
[22:06:38] <anonimasu> awesome
[22:07:08] <alex_joni> quite a couple from the same guys
[22:07:11] <alex_joni> still emc2 ;)
[22:07:30] <anonimasu> yep
[22:08:35] <Gamma-X> hey will a vfd be able to take the place of a phase converter?
[22:08:41] <SWPadnos> some can
[22:09:25] <cradek> definitely
[22:09:27] <Gamma-X> swp would it be able to start it aswell as be able to be controlled by emc2 for speed control?
[22:09:50] <cradek> 3HP is big for a single phase input vfd, but they exist
[22:10:19] <SWPadnos> yes, usually start/stop and speed are all controllable
[22:10:35] <cradek> fwd/reverse too, because when in low gear the motor has to run the other way
[22:10:40] <Gamma-X> cradek it will be a 220 line but i just dont see why to buy a phase converter when i can get it all in one package and control the spindle speed aswell.
[22:11:15] <cradek> Gamma-X: this is currently a cnc machine? if so it probably has other 3 phase parts, like the main DC bus transformer. you would have to replace that too.
[22:11:34] <Gamma-X> uhhhh it may....
[22:11:40] <cradek> you will need to study the schematics or explore the cabinets carefully with a flashlight
[22:11:50] <Gamma-X> fudge
[22:12:23] <cradek> I am converting my bridgeport to single phase, the transformer required weighs 120lb
[22:12:36] <Gamma-X> cradek can u send me an example of a proper vfd that would work in my scenario
[22:12:57] <cradek> no I can't, you will have to get motor specs and do that research
[22:13:05] <Gamma-X> gotcha.
[22:13:07] <cradek> but I recommend automation direct
[22:13:20] <cradek> they will be able to help you
[22:13:28] <Gamma-X> thanks a lot.
[22:13:31] <cradek> sure
[22:14:36] <alex_joni> heh.. we start to have lots of videos :)
[22:15:51] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:18:32] <toastyde1th> it always freaks me out when the guy who crashes a machine near daily starts pressing keys on the machine i am running
[22:18:40] <toastyde1th> especially when he hasn't crashed a machine lately
[22:19:06] <toastyde1th> thankfully i was able to put an end to the haphazard process before any damage was done
[22:19:11] <toastyde1th> toastyde1th is now known as toastydeath
[22:20:08] <The_B> The_B is now known as The_Ball
[22:20:54] <Gamma-X> cradek are all vfd's capable of speed control?
[22:21:01] <Guest948> good day gents...
[22:21:34] <toastydeath> gamma-x: that's the definition of a VFD
[22:21:50] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:21:53] <toastydeath> nighty sir
[22:22:21] <Gamma-X> toastydeath but it will also act as a phase converter? Im jsut tryin to figure in my head how it work.
[22:22:37] <toastydeath> some of them do, i forget the specific term
[22:23:19] <Guest948> ciao Alex..
[22:23:31] <toastydeath> there's a specific kind of vfd that does not act as a phase converter, you'll have to google it on the various machining forums
[22:23:35] <toastydeath> it's been discussed several times
[22:24:14] <anonimasu> it's all digital nowdays
[22:24:20] <anonimasu> call up a retailer.
[22:24:20] <anonimasu> :p
[22:24:46] <Guest948> does anyone have additional info on HAL setup on lathe with encoder and toolchange on a mill?
[22:40:37] <toastydeath> every time i see a toolchanger operate
[22:40:41] <toastydeath> i always think
[22:40:46] <toastydeath> "man, what a wonderful device"
[22:41:02] <toastydeath> and take a few seconds to contemplate exactly how easy toolchangers make my life
[22:44:59] <Guest948> :D .. so you've inmplemented one..?
[22:45:46] <anonimasu> no
[22:45:55] <anonimasu> :p
[22:46:07] <anonimasu> he's just talking about the vmc he runs at work ^^
[22:46:11] <anonimasu> bastard!
[22:47:46] <Guest948> anyone has done it?
[22:50:17] <cradek> Guest948: http://youtube.com/watch?v=vNn-Yr7it5s
[22:50:40] <cradek> this is a video of a machine the emc2 devel team worked on. the configuration is called demo_mazak and you get it as an example with your emc2 installation
[22:51:07] <Guest948> ahhh.. the mazak.. I remember now..
[22:51:09] <cradek> it has a complex tool changer
[22:52:20] <dmess> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OISlRKlyxjk&NR=1
[22:54:37] <Guest948> checking thank you...
[22:55:28] <Guest948> what motor / encoder is he using for the spindle..?