#emc | Logs for 2007-12-03

[00:13:02] <TravisW> what is everybody using for cad? I'm trying to stay in linux, but I don't care much for qcad
[00:14:42] <toastydeath> pro/e has a linux binary
[00:14:47] <toastydeath> but uh it isn't free
[00:14:48] <toastydeath> at all
[00:15:03] <toastydeath> so does catia
[00:15:42] <toastydeath> i'd prefer pro/e, but work uses solidworks
[00:15:47] <toastydeath> which is a+ for most everything
[00:16:07] <TravisW> I've used solidworks, but do they have a linux version?
[00:16:10] <toastydeath> no
[00:16:40] <TravisW> I didn't think so.. Pro/e is to pricy for me I'd go broke just getting a computer to run it
[00:17:18] <toastydeath> what do you want to do
[00:17:22] <toastydeath> with your cad
[00:18:15] <TravisW> for the most part, simple brackets and such. pockets, drilling. nothing requiring even a 4th axis for now
[00:18:36] <toastydeath> you're looking for CAM then, not cad
[00:18:48] <toastydeath> you are essentially stuck with qcad
[00:18:56] <toastydeath> unless you have no ethical objections to stealing
[00:19:04] <toastydeath> or suddenly come across the money for a mastercam license
[00:19:10] <toastydeath> i guess there's stuff like bobcam or whatever
[00:19:34] <TravisW> lol I do like mastercam but once again, not linux
[00:19:50] <toastydeath> okay here's the issue
[00:20:04] <toastydeath> the windows based packages are over a thousand dollars
[00:20:33] <toastydeath> the CAM software with a Linux client costs a ridiculous sum of money even compared to that
[00:21:12] <TravisW> I havn't gotten deep into qcad, but it just doesn't flow for me. I'm sure with training it would get ok.
[00:21:53] <TravisW> I've used mastercam and solidworks before, and like both. I'm just trying to eliminate windows
[00:22:41] <TravisW> how expensive is catia
[00:23:03] <toastydeath> I heard someone quote 14k a seat once
[00:23:07] <toastydeath> us dollars
[00:23:21] <toastydeath> i've never known anyone who worked for a firm who had the money to use catia
[00:23:29] <toastydeath> pro/e is like a step down
[00:23:37] <TravisW> yeah.. probably worth it, just not for me.
[00:23:43] <toastydeath> NX4 might have a linux client, but those are all the most expensive ones
[00:23:58] <TravisW> well, ya get what you pay for some times.
[00:24:17] <TravisW> I just can't pay that much.
[00:24:30] <TravisW> supose I need to make enough money to buy it
[00:24:51] <TravisW> work has pro/e, but it's not something I get to play with just yet.
[00:24:53] <toastydeath> you need to be doing really advanced mold work and materials analysis
[00:25:03] <toastydeath> to need catia
[00:25:14] <TravisW> and I'm not. so I'll wipe that off of my wish list
[00:25:42] <TravisW> mastercam for linux.. that's what I need
[00:26:00] <toastydeath> yeah
[00:26:05] <toastydeath> pro/e does machining
[00:26:14] <toastydeath> i haven't messed with it too much
[00:26:33] <TravisW> I've heard it's a pain to install, but just really picky on what computers it'll run
[00:26:50] <toastydeath> that's not been my experience, it's matter of following directions
[00:26:53] <dmess> catia cn do ANYTHING.... in the right hands
[00:27:27] <dmess> what IS it you need..
[00:27:30] <TravisW> in that case, in my hands it could make peanut butter and jelly.
[00:27:39] <TravisW> need many more skills for that.
[00:28:04] <TravisW> I've taken autocad years ago in school, but other then that, it's just fiddling
[00:28:09] <dmess> or not.. it is VERY loud...
[00:28:11] <toastydeath> you really aren't going to find CAM on linux
[00:28:15] <toastydeath> from a professional program
[00:28:41] <dmess> no resemblance to capabilities
[00:28:47] <TravisW> so either pony up for a great program. such as catia, or pro/e or use windows
[00:28:55] <toastydeath> yeah, essentially.
[00:29:06] <toastydeath> and uh, all those programs are not easy to use at all
[00:29:15] <dmess> APT360 is quite professional...
[00:29:17] <toastydeath> pro/e is not built to be user-friendly
[00:29:31] <toastydeath> and from what i understand none of the other ones on that level are, either
[00:29:34] <TravisW> from what pro/e says, it's super friendly
[00:29:40] <toastydeath> i've used pro/e
[00:29:46] <toastydeath> and seen people try to learn it
[00:29:48] <toastydeath> it isn't.
[00:29:53] <TravisW> suppose thats in comparision to others with that much power
[00:30:05] <toastydeath> i love pro/e, because it does everything i've ever asked it to do
[00:30:09] <toastydeath> not so with solidworks
[00:30:21] <toastydeath> we've had dudes pick up solidworks in less than a week and be productive
[00:30:22] <TravisW> really. I found solidworks pretty easy
[00:30:33] <toastydeath> that's what i'm saying - solidworks IS easy
[00:30:41] <TravisW> ok
[00:30:42] <dmess> im a 15 yr catia user.. and it isnt easy iether .. every rev is a whole new ball game
[00:30:59] <toastydeath> but they trade that ease of use for the flexibility that CATIA, pro/E, and NX have
[00:31:04] <TravisW> hopefully there is enough new to make it worth relearning
[00:31:40] <TravisW> I've always prefered to have the power to do just what I want. sometimes getting to complicated
[00:32:00] <Dogfishguzzler> jepler: I took your advice and just gave up on linux. I just got back from best buy with my new copy of vista.
[00:32:17] <toastydeath> i like being able to do what i want, too
[00:32:19] <dmess> cimatron on the other hand is ages ahead... even my old one punches #'s better than Catia in 3-d surfacing mode
[00:32:35] <toastydeath> and solidworks does that 95% of the time for me
[00:32:42] <toastydeath> but jesus that last 5%
[00:32:45] <TravisW> cimatron i haven't heard of
[00:33:03] <TravisW> I was just hoping to stay far away from windows
[00:33:04] <dmess> out of Isreal
[00:33:27] <toastydeath> travisw: there's like zero interest in linux from CAD/CAM companies
[00:33:30] <dmess> it is wonblows.. unfortunatly
[00:33:35] <Dogfishguzzler> Sorry guys, I don't want to interupt. But seriously Jepler I lugged that heavy piece of crap up stairs and used the install script on linuccnc.org, it seems to finally be getting what it needs.
[00:33:51] <toastydeath> dogfishguzzler: jepler will get your messages, dont' worry
[00:34:09] <TravisW> I know . but as numbers get stronger in linux I hope that will change. I'd even take something good on mac
[00:34:17] <Dogfishguzzler> Yeah I figured he would, I just wanted to throw them out there since I need to be getting back to this emc install :D
[00:34:26] <toastydeath> there's also zero interest in mac
[00:34:47] <dmess> again APT 360 is a viable option for ALOT of stuff with VAPT its quite sweet..
[00:35:17] <TravisW> if I could program, and had unlimited resources, and a team and and and and and.... that linux situation would change
[00:35:23] <TravisW> apt360?
[00:35:42] <toastydeath> travisw: the problem is that almost nobody is using linux in manufacturing on the desktop
[00:35:50] <toastydeath> even for catia/nx/proe
[00:36:04] <dmess> are you trying to make a particular part???
[00:36:44] <dmess> toast... speak for yourself please...
[00:36:58] <TravisW> no. not right now. just trying to get a windows free system from design to completion
[00:37:13] <toastydeath> dude, if you're using linux in manufacturing, you're speaking for yourself
[00:37:23] <dmess> to make $$$
[00:37:23] <toastydeath> i'm not saying there aren't a handful of businesses doing it
[00:38:03] <tomp2> Dogfishguzzler: great! sounds like you got it.
[00:39:09] <dmess> i confirm cmm data thru apt 360 & vapt 1 or 2times a week.... just running his #'s for errors
[00:39:55] <dmess> i sell g-code...... where it comes from no one asks...
[00:40:30] <TravisW> just looking at the apt360 info
[00:41:04] <dmess> chk out the #cam channel
[00:41:42] <TravisW> what is vapt
[00:42:23] <dmess> its a text based language.. only 5 axis simultaniusy unfortunately...
[00:43:15] <TravisW> ok. is apt360 suitable for cad/cam
[00:43:19] <dmess> visual APT.. neew ,, and only on linux thx to the author
[00:43:50] <dmess> it is/was the 1st cad/cam
[00:44:04] <tomp2> i was looking for the 'other' rtos that was allowed for in emc, came across this http://www.springerlink.com/content/7376406nx011415k/
[00:45:02] <tomp2> A software oriented CNC system based on Linux/RTLinux
[00:45:26] <dmess> i did the 777 torque links in apt because they told me i had to...
[00:45:43] <tomp2> heh the chinese-irish did it again
[00:47:08] <dmess> dont you love having piced it RIGHT the 1st time
[00:47:14] <Dogfishguzzler> tomp2: Yep its up and running. Thank god I didnt have to compile, even after adding the require repositorys etc etc I still couldn't get apt-get build-dep emc2 to work.
[00:48:06] <Dogfishguzzler> I love debian though, all those years of wasting my time with slack....sad
[00:48:56] <TravisW> so apt is used with qcad? or all on it's own.
[00:49:12] <TravisW> trying to look thru sourceforge for info
[00:50:06] <dmess> all its own..
[00:50:33] <dmess> too powerful for alll the other stuff
[00:52:47] <dmess> Dogfishguzzler: should have started with one with it on board.....
[00:53:30] <TravisW> found aptos in sourceforge, but not apt360
[00:54:11] <Dogfishguzzler> I did dmess but it would install, not enough mem.
[00:54:26] <Dogfishguzzler> wouldnt
[00:55:42] <Dogfishguzzler> I literally dug this box out the trash, less than 200 megs of ram. Freakin Xubuntu runs like a top on it though. Once I get blackbox in there and trim the fat a bit it'll be as fast a 1.2 giger
[00:55:48] <dmess> http://imagebin.org/12124
[00:56:53] <dmess> your 1 of me... coool
[00:58:26] <dmess> white lines are tool path yellow is geometry//// the text on the left is all oit
[00:59:23] <TravisW> ok.. now to install
[01:45:53] <Dogfishguzzler> Can one of you guys reccomend a good channel I can ask about a potential exploit on my system? I know how these irc servers are, swimming with script kiddies, I dont need that shit. I found a port open on my network I can't seem to plug and I'm wondering what if anything a potential asswipe might be able to do to me.
[01:46:44] <Dogfishguzzler> btw, I've googled and googled and googled some more.
[01:50:12] <Dogfishguzzler> I'm not asking this in an other channel, I dont know why but I trust my fellow machinists more than the rest of the chatters around here lol.
[01:56:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> Don't think you have to worry about script kiddies here
[01:56:46] <jepler> this is on your ubuntu system?
[01:57:18] <Dogfishguzzler> no, it on my wireless router supplied by vonage
[01:57:45] <Dogfishguzzler> From what I can gather via google its commonly used as a windows exploit. We have two windows machines
[01:58:06] <Dogfishguzzler> Its port 4000 on my router (remoteanything)
[01:58:40] <Dogfishguzzler> I can shut it down or block it either. I'm not worried about my computers they all run linux of some variety.
[01:58:43] <Skullworks-PGAB> could it also be the port Vonage uses for VOIP?
[01:58:48] <Dogfishguzzler> I can't shut it down*
[01:59:25] <Dogfishguzzler> Skullworks:maybe but google says its a commercial backdoor, like pcanywhere.
[01:59:31] <Dogfishguzzler> You might be right though
[02:00:12] <tomp2> nite all
[02:00:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> * Skullworks-PGAB is only thinking Vonage might have locked the VOIP port open so you can't kill your phone connection.
[02:00:39] <Dogfishguzzler> I guess it does need a port to do its thing, nmap shows ssh,http and remoteanything. You can see why I got nervous
[02:00:59] <Dogfishguzzler> You may have a point
[02:01:40] <Dogfishguzzler> I'm about to disable the ssh too since it doesnt work. I wish we could trash that phone, nobody even uses it.
[02:01:51] <Skullworks-PGAB> I have more trouble with crap embedded in torrents.
[02:02:05] <Dogfishguzzler> How do you find the crap?
[02:02:16] <jepler> various pages on voip stuff seem to use port 4000, though I don't know enough about those protocols to know if it's an example number or a number actually used. http://www.vrvs.org/Documentation/SIP-Client-guide.html
[02:02:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> Virus scanner pops up as the first file chunks come thru
[02:04:26] <Dogfishguzzler> With a linux system Skullworks-PGAB?
[02:04:47] <Dogfishguzzler> Thanks Jepler, I feel better now.
[02:05:15] <Dogfishguzzler> btw, I did get emc running on the other box :D
[02:05:56] <jepler> oh good
[02:06:10] <Skullworks-PGAB> no - a WinBORG box - I could not get linux to work with the on motherboard SATA raid so I used WinBORG XP
[02:06:20] <Dogfishguzzler> ahh
[02:06:46] <Dogfishguzzler> Are you guys familiar with building your own driver circuits?
[02:06:53] <Skullworks-PGAB> That is a dedicated torrent box
[02:07:07] <Dogfishguzzler> I love torrents
[02:07:19] <Dogfishguzzler> but I never check them, cause I'm a moron
[02:08:02] <Dogfishguzzler> I figure one, linux is fairly impervious to virii and two if I get infected that gives me a reason to try a new distro lol
[02:09:03] <Dogfishguzzler> I'll go ahead and throw my driver question out there.
[02:09:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah but If a Virus killed my Gentoo Box after that long ground up build... I'd be rather pissed.
[02:09:22] <jepler> I think the only software I torrent *is* a new linux distro..
[02:09:51] <Skullworks-PGAB> Jepler - "Legitimate software"
[02:10:32] <Dogfishguzzler> Tomorrow I plan on buying a couple L293D's and slapping together this circuit that alex_joni showed me. My question is, will emc readily deal with this circuit? What other things will I need to do in order to get results?
[02:11:20] <Skullworks-PGAB> I've seen Inventor out there and ProE - But I'm not that massocitic
[02:11:26] <fenn> if only windows were as cool as the borg... *sigh*
[02:12:24] <Skullworks-PGAB> Actually the BORG edition is a Canadian version of XP that is totally hacked.
[02:12:34] <fenn> oh
[02:12:36] <jepler> Dogfishguzzler: l297/l293, or l293 on its own?
[02:12:53] <Dogfishguzzler> on it's on, wanna see the schematic?
[02:13:34] <jepler> Dogfishguzzler: emc usually does "step + direction" to talk to stepper drivers (that would be l297/l293), but it can also do "4-phase drive" which is what the l293 requires.
[02:13:49] <jepler> however, I don't think you'll find any sample configurations for "4-phase drive" .. this will force you to dive in and learn how to write .hal files
[02:14:32] <Dogfishguzzler> Ok once I build the circuit do any of the regs here have the patience to help me get it working? I don't minding reading if I know where the docs are.
[02:14:57] <Dogfishguzzler> heres the schematic I will follow
[02:14:59] <Dogfishguzzler> http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/may98/steppers.html
[02:15:25] <Dogfishguzzler> who just beeped me btw?
[02:15:32] <wholepair> speaking of hal files - I am trying to upgrade mine for a newer version of emc2 and I have a question
[02:15:50] <Skullworks-PGAB> I think what Jeff was saying is that almost nobody as used the phase output since EMC1
[02:16:03] <jepler> I do know someone who is using phase output -- it works just fine
[02:16:17] <Skullworks-PGAB> so there are no current config's for reference
[02:16:27] <jepler> but he hasn't contributed his configuration file
[02:16:27] <Skullworks-PGAB> ah
[02:17:14] <jepler> Dogfishguzzler: as long as you are able to give clueful reports as you work on your .hal files, you'll find people here willing to help you
[02:17:18] <jepler> but for now I have to go .. bbl
[02:17:32] <fenn> it's pretty straightforward really
[02:17:32] <Dogfishguzzler> thanks for your help jepler
[02:18:04] <Dogfishguzzler> fenn:I'm sure it is once you defeat the learning curve. I don'y mind though, I dig the challenge
[02:18:16] <Dogfishguzzler> dont*
[02:18:48] <wholepair> I used to have my minimum limits setup on pin 11 and pin 12 - 11 is minlimit for X,Y,&Z and 12 is maxlimit for X,Ym&Z - the stepconf wizard did not have this option - here is where I am at: http://uoregon.edu/~jgarman/my-mill.hal
[02:19:34] <wholepair> I commented out the old limit setting method, it will give you an idea of what I want to do -
[02:19:58] <fenn> does the old code not work?
[02:20:35] <wholepair> the old code does not work - it says I something like ( you #$$*, you cant set that pin twice )
[02:20:44] <fenn> comment out the net min-x lines
[02:23:11] <fenn> and max-x
[02:23:33] <fenn> were those put there by stepconf?
[02:24:11] <wholepair> min-x and max-y were put in by the wizard
[02:24:23] <wholepair> max-x, sorry
[02:25:01] <wholepair> I tried adding the same for y and z - no go - then I tried just putting my old code in -
[02:25:05] <wholepair> hld on
[02:25:30] <Skullworks-PGAB> just wondering - How many counts do most people set for deadband?
[02:26:17] <fenn> i think about 2 counts, but i'm making it up :)
[02:27:03] <Skullworks-PGAB> I was thinking about setting mine up with +/- 4
[02:27:03] <CIA-23> 03tissf 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/config/ini_homing_fr.lyx: French translation update
[02:27:04] <CIA-23> 03tissf 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/ (main_fr.lyx tool_compensation_fr.lyx): French translation update
[02:27:19] <CIA-23> 03tissf 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/tutorial_fr.lyx: French translation update
[02:27:54] <Skullworks-PGAB> which makes these gecko 320's useless
[02:28:19] <fenn> ah that's a whole nother ball of wax
[02:28:51] <wholepair> I am using gecko 320's
[02:29:27] <wholepair> anywho - this is the debug info:
[02:29:27] <wholepair> Debug file information:
[02:29:27] <wholepair> my-mill.hal:79: pin 'axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in' was already linked
[02:29:57] <Skullworks-PGAB> my "personal" issue is the fixed 128 count following error allowed at the driver.
[02:30:02] <fenn> there are 4 lines you need to comment out
[02:30:21] <fenn> net min-x => axis.0.neg-lim-sw-in
[02:31:17] <wholepair> oh - i did'nt see those down there -
[02:33:51] <wholepair> cool - its working now, thanks: this is it's current state - http://uoregon.edu/~jgarman/my-mill.hal
[02:34:04] <wholepair> fenn: thanks for your help again
[02:35:23] <fenn> glad i could help
[02:35:24] <wholepair> Im going to go plug the new laptop in now :-)
[03:05:20] <Dogfishguzzler> Can I ask you guys another non emc related question? Don't hesitate to tell me no. I would rather keep a good rap with you guys, I don't want to irritate anyone.
[03:07:21] <cradek> in my opinion there's no problem with off-topic here... but it's irritating when someone asks whether he can ask a question (after all, he just did!) - so always just ask
[03:08:28] <Dogfishguzzler> lol
[03:10:05] <Dogfishguzzler> So I have this old windows partition I need to change ownership of it from root to me, Ive tried chown in everyway I can think. If I do a sudo nautilus and go there and try to right click and change permissions I get "cannot change permissions of read only file" blah blah
[03:10:42] <Dogfishguzzler> Ive tried this many times for months and Im sick of it
[03:10:45] <cradek> you could try asking that on the #ubuntu channel
[03:10:55] <Dogfishguzzler> I need acces to those files as me. not root
[03:11:02] <Dogfishguzzler> see lol
[03:11:18] <Dogfishguzzler> ok I guess I will
[03:11:23] <jepler> windows partitions (e.g., fat, ntfs) don't really have unix-style permissions. for fat, there is a mount flag that determines the user and group that the files belong to
[03:11:27] <jepler> I'm not sure about ntfs
[03:11:43] <jepler> "man mount" and scroll down to "mount options for fat" and "mount options for ntfs"
[03:11:49] <Dogfishguzzler> Yeah jepler thats the problem, it insist the files are root's
[03:12:12] <Dogfishguzzler> Lemme go ask in #ubuntu
[03:12:33] <Dogfishguzzler> You guys are so helpful I just don't wanna piss somebody off getting offtopic
[03:21:35] <toastydeath> ntfs is the same way
[03:21:43] <toastydeath> uid and gid
[03:21:46] <toastydeath> i do believe
[03:24:47] <fenn> it used to be that you couldnt write to an ntfs partition from linux
[03:25:04] <fenn> might not be possible in 6.06
[03:31:00] <Dogfishguzzler> Okay I got it, you have to do 'mount -o umask=000 /dev/whatever /mnt/wherever'
[03:33:53] <cradek> Dogfishguzzler: that lets everyone, not just you, write to all those files
[03:34:15] <cradek> (that advice is only good for a single user machine)
[03:35:46] <Dogfishguzzler> It is a single user machine. This is just so I can organize my files into my home directory then I will format that partition, this only temporary.
[03:35:59] <cradek> ok, cool then
[03:36:08] <Dogfishguzzler> Thanks for the warning though
[03:36:10] <Dogfishguzzler> :D
[03:42:16] <toastydeath> it is possible to write ntfs now
[03:42:20] <toastydeath> safely
[03:42:28] <toastydeath> on the odd occasion that it fails, the write doesn't occur at all
[03:42:35] <toastydeath> and it automatically tries again
[03:42:40] <toastydeath> (which will succeed)(
[03:43:11] <Dogfishguzzler> All I want to do is get my stuff safely on my etx3 and format the partition, then put it back there so I can selectively serve some of it.
[03:43:36] <Dogfishguzzler> I have close to ten years worth of data there.
[03:43:56] <Dogfishguzzler> thousands of mp3's and pics, files etc etc
[03:44:15] <Dogfishguzzler> I even have the original i love you lol
[03:44:58] <Dogfishguzzler> Some people journal, I just browse my archive to go back in time.
[03:45:53] <Dogfishguzzler> I usually keep my backup on a seperate partition and keep it unmounted. Thats the only way Ive been able to hang on to this stuff through my many distros and phases.
[03:48:48] <Dogfishguzzler> After seeing that open port earlier I'm back to wanting to centralize everything
[03:49:40] <Skullworks-PGAB> USB2 HDD's - offline storage with immediate access potential.
[03:50:03] <Dogfishguzzler> Yeah Skullworks, I seriously want me an external.
[03:50:52] <Dogfishguzzler> I'll wait till the 4 terabyte model is $18 :D
[03:50:59] <Skullworks-PGAB> they are fast too - a DVD iso is about 3 min transfer
[03:51:11] <Dogfishguzzler> You got one?
[03:51:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> 3
[03:51:25] <Dogfishguzzler> damn lol
[03:51:39] <Dogfishguzzler> What brand? I saw the fireflies, I like those.
[03:51:42] <Skullworks-PGAB> 40gb, 80gb, and 500gb
[03:52:09] <Skullworks-PGAB> the small ones use laptop drives
[03:52:41] <Skullworks-PGAB> the 500 is a 16mb cache seagate
[03:52:52] <Skullworks-PGAB> fast and smooth
[03:59:57] <Dogfishguzzler> okay, my beer is gone and it's 11. I'll see you guys tomorrow.
[12:00:19] <jlmjvm> alex_joni:what got changed for the g18 z,x arc preview,it already worked?
[12:00:47] <jlmjvm> talking about the new 2.2.2 update
[12:14:16] <jlmjvm> http://imagebin.org/12132
[12:15:02] <jlmjvm> alex_joni:that is what 2.2.1 was doing with g18,19 arcs
[12:25:05] <jlmjvm> yes
[12:25:41] <jlmjvm> i told cradek and posted that on image bin after i read the peter wallace email
[12:25:53] <jlmjvm> in the user group
[12:37:28] <cradek> touch-off X to 2" and do that again; you will see that G18 is wrong
[12:38:13] <cradek> and it's the preview, not the backplot, so you have to put them in a gcode program and load it
[12:38:43] <cradek> bbl
[12:39:00] <jlmjvm> k,will try
[12:45:24] <jlmjvm> i see what your talking about now,mine shows a pyramid
[13:02:08] <jlmjvm> excellent fix,shows arc on preview
[13:03:00] <jlmjvm> is there any way this update can be installed on a machine with no internet access?
[13:18:57] <cradek> jlmjvm: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?InstallingUpdates
[13:19:36] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: if you already have 2.2.1 on the machine, then simply grab the 2.2.2 package, and copy it over and install it
[13:41:51] <jlmjvm> thanks guys
[13:42:00] <jlmjvm> bbl
[13:46:55] <skunkworks> great job on the 2.2.2
[13:51:36] <jepler> skunkworks: did you try it out yet, or are you just saying it on general principle?
[13:53:57] <skunkworks> in general
[13:54:09] <skunkworks> I will get it today though
[14:00:57] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47939
[16:46:36] <alex_joni> skunkworks: that's quite a nice thread :)
[16:47:36] <skunkworks> yes - very informative and full of praise :)
[16:49:26] <skunkworks> * skunkworks looks on ebay for cheap fanuc drives... ;)
[16:52:09] <skunkworks> cool
[16:52:10] <skunkworks> http://buildyourcnc.com/software2.aspx
[16:55:19] <alex_joni> that's great
[16:55:26] <alex_joni> too bad the text he used is soo ugly :)
[16:57:39] <skunkworks> heh
[16:59:27] <jepler> the text on that page looks just like the text on every other page on the internet. should it be different?
[17:01:44] <alex_joni> jepler: I meant the text inside the video
[17:01:55] <alex_joni> which you probably haven't watched :P
[17:04:39] <skunkworks> sounds like he has a bunch of gremlins in the background
[17:08:14] <jepler> of course not; if I watched internet videos I'd be giving up my luddite cred
[17:20:04] <alex_joni> jepler: it's a nice video helping complete newbies to get emc2
[17:20:20] <alex_joni> which may or may not be a "smart" idea
[17:55:31] <CIA-23> 03jepler 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/html/gcode_fr.html: link to version 2.2 docs instead of TRUNK docs
[19:54:11] <CIA-23> 03jepler 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: gcode quick ref had G98, G99 transposed
[19:54:12] <CIA-23> 03jepler 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/html/ (gcode.html gcode_fr.html): gcode quick ref had G98, G99 transposed
[19:54:54] <CIA-23> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/html/ (gcode.html gcode_fr.html): merge from branch: gcode quick ref had G98, G99 transposed
[19:58:26] <cradek> I thought a crank position sensor costs more than an encoder...
[19:58:47] <cradek> it would be a clever hack though.
[19:59:00] <ds2> depends on store.... the "neighborhood" midnight, remove it yourself store is a lot cheaper... free ;)
[19:59:09] <cradek> haha
[19:59:22] <skunkworks> I think he was just looking at the sensor..
[19:59:26] <cradek> just pull it out of your car when you need to cut threads...
[19:59:43] <skunkworks> still need an 'index'
[19:59:56] <cradek> yeah that's the problem I suppose
[19:59:57] <ds2> Hmmmm a longer timing chain + a few other additions could get you a mobile lathe to cut threads ;)
[20:00:11] <cradek> if your sensor is very reliable, you could fake the index. but I wouldn't recommend it.
[20:00:42] <cradek> skunkworks: did you see my B axis last night?
[20:01:11] <skunkworks> no
[20:01:24] <skunkworks> is it on your site?
[20:01:25] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/b-axis.avi
[20:01:35] <cradek> sorry for the terrible video
[20:02:09] <cradek> I live three miles underground and I had only a cigarette lighter for lighting
[20:02:37] <cradek> you can see the C axis on the table (if you try hard)
[20:02:37] <ds2> cheap camera ;)
[20:02:49] <cradek> there's no motor on C yet though
[20:02:50] <ds2> get one with nightvision lenses }:-)
[20:03:03] <skunkworks> are you canablizing your max?
[20:03:10] <skunkworks> very cool btw
[20:03:12] <jepler> you mean "enhancing"?
[20:03:13] <ds2> (donno what that would do to your 3mile long cord)
[20:03:26] <skunkworks> what are you using for the drivetrain?
[20:03:53] <cradek> on the Z slide is mounted a 4" rotary table with worm gear/stepper
[20:04:06] <skunkworks> cool
[20:04:15] <cradek> I haven't done anything permanent to max. Only some additional holes in various parts.
[20:04:59] <skunkworks> heh - that is very cool. I think that will wow people at the workshop this year.. (you have no say in if your brining it or not)
[20:05:06] <jepler> hahaha
[20:05:25] <cradek> I still won't have the kinematics right by then :-)
[20:05:36] <skunkworks> I don't believe that :)
[20:05:42] <jepler> that's OK, you can bully someone at fest into fixing it
[20:05:49] <jepler> we'd have it ready by friday when most folks show up
[20:05:57] <skunkworks> alex should be there.. ;)
[20:06:10] <cradek> I will surely need joint limits...
[20:07:08] <skunkworks> how much play is in it? can you remove the play from the rotory tables? (adjusting the gear/worm spacing)
[20:07:22] <cradek> it's surprisingly tight
[20:07:25] <skunkworks> nice
[20:07:49] <cradek> on the order of .1 degree maybe
[20:07:54] <skunkworks> I want to see a turbo compressor blade being machined..
[20:07:55] <cradek> (for now!)
[20:08:00] <cradek> that's a lot of weight on it
[20:08:05] <skunkworks> I bet
[20:08:24] <skunkworks> It took me a bit to see the bits of the max in there :p
[20:08:29] <cradek> haha
[20:08:46] <cradek> less and less of it is blue as time goes on
[20:09:21] <cradek> I could make a whole machine but I'm hoping this will get me going faster.
[20:09:29] <jepler> the tool tip is so close to the center of rotation that I originally thought you had the kinematics done already
[20:09:57] <cradek> yeah I centered a "typical" tool. Some are shorter and some are longer.
[20:10:39] <cradek> actually that one is a bit on the long side. but considering I sometimes use a jacobs chuck and drills, it's good
[20:11:18] <cradek> I will be able to get 90 degrees of B on a workpiece about that tall.
[20:11:54] <cradek> with luck, maybe a 3+" cube working volume.
[20:12:03] <skunkworks> so - your working on tool lenght for multi axis machining?
[20:12:21] <cradek> yes for a certain shape of machine I have it working already.
[20:12:26] <skunkworks> nice
[20:18:16] <skunkworks> * skunkworks need to stop playing the video over and over
[20:18:40] <skunkworks> cradek: the 2 amp stepper drives?
[20:19:10] <cradek> yes whatever L298 is
[20:19:58] <cradek> I had to crank the current up for it to lift the heavy spindle+motor. I definitely have to add another fan now
[20:20:10] <jepler> are you running within the motor ratings?
[20:20:22] <cradek> I don't know for sure
[20:20:38] <cradek> it only got a bit warm.
[20:20:48] <cradek> (they had always run completely cool)
[20:23:53] <jepler> you think your motors are 1xx oz-in? You can get a higher torque motor fairly cheaply. http://www.xylotex.com/StepperMotor.htm nema-23, 269oz-in, $50
[20:24:14] <cradek> I think they're 13x-15x
[20:24:20] <cradek> wow, 269 is a lot more
[20:24:38] <cradek> I was so tempted to order 5 geckos -- but holy crap they add up
[20:24:42] <JymmmEMC> Those are the motors I have.... and I suspect they are not putting out what they claim to
[20:24:54] <cradek> then I thought, one gecko
[20:25:02] <JymmmEMC> and there is curve available for them.
[20:25:08] <JymmmEMC> and there is no curve available for them.
[20:25:15] <cradek> then their website told me there's something it doesn't like about my browser
[20:25:22] <cradek> so, I now have zero geckos
[20:25:52] <skunkworks> like I say - keep an eye on ebay. oem650 or 750 drives.
[20:26:44] <skunkworks> or even s6 (although they seem to go for more money as you don't have to supply a power supply)
[20:27:12] <cradek> do you have about five spares over there?
[20:27:36] <cradek> I'll give you five shiny dollars for them
[20:27:51] <JymmmEMC> ...shipping $900
[20:28:04] <skunkworks> father is a horder.. so no. Hi dad!
[20:28:14] <skunkworks> hoarder?
[20:28:21] <JymmmEMC> cradek: dont ya know by now, you always gotta asj the shipping rates =)
[20:28:33] <jepler> except if you go there assuming it, there are bound to be drivers for sale at fest..
[20:30:26] <skunkworks> looks like you can get them from singapore any day of the week for $50 :)
[20:30:29] <skunkworks> http://cgi.ebay.com/PARKER-COMPUMOTOR-OEM650-SERVO-DRIVE_W0QQitemZ150180080660QQihZ005QQcategoryZ71394QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
[20:31:57] <skunkworks> as is ;)
[20:34:49] <cradek> 31 available - doubt they are all bad
[20:35:41] <cradek> but that is too much money for 'as is'
[20:35:41] <JymmmEMC> http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-COMPUMOTOR-SX6-MICROSTEP-MOTOR-DRIVE-PLUS-MOTOR-ENC_W0QQitemZ200179082316QQihZ010QQcategoryZ78196QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[20:36:54] <JymmmEMC> cradek: BINGO! http://cgi.ebay.com/Parker-Compumotor-servo-drive-OEM-750_W0QQitemZ120192740911QQihZ002QQcategoryZ78196QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[20:37:11] <JymmmEMC> 100% positive, 3 and says they are working units
[20:37:46] <skunkworks> wow - that is a good deal.. and he posted it so that people will not find it.
[20:37:54] <JymmmEMC> oh wait... the desc says servo, which would be oem760's, not 750's
[20:38:32] <JymmmEMC> but the label says 750, so just confirm with him
[20:38:38] <skunkworks> picture is right though
[20:38:57] <JymmmEMC> it might be a mixed lot of 750 and 760's
[20:39:26] <JymmmEMC> they all look alike, easy to miss
[20:39:41] <JymmmEMC> or, he just doesn't know
[20:40:22] <JymmmEMC> I'd place a bid, before he changes his mind! lol
[20:42:51] <skunkworks> still a ways out.
[20:43:17] <skunkworks> I wonder how far he is from me.
[20:44:27] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks: they're a lil to rare lately to dismiss imo
[20:44:49] <skunkworks> must be near millwaukee
[20:44:54] <skunkworks> yes
[20:45:42] <JymmmEMC> I94
[20:46:28] <JymmmEMC> between Madison and Milwaukee
[20:46:41] <skunkworks> probably a good 3 hour drive then
[20:46:51] <skunkworks> shipping would be cheaper,
[20:47:18] <JymmmEMC> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Johnson+Creek,+WI,+United+States+of+America&ie=UTF8&ll=43.07588,-88.77501&spn=3.30205,3.361816&z=8&om=1
[20:54:15] <JymmmEMC> http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/465979897.html
[21:15:08] <JymmmEMC> JymmmEMC is now known as MrAsshole
[21:15:23] <MrAsshole> MrAsshole is now known as JymmmEMC
[22:11:13] <jlmjvm_> has anyone ever had emc stop executing a program at a certain spot,when there are no alarms?
[22:11:33] <Dogfishguzzler> I take it that you have :P
[22:11:55] <jlmjvm_> ?
[22:12:12] <Dogfishguzzler> lo, just a joke, nm me.
[22:12:31] <Dogfishguzzler> It's been quiet since I got here so I felt like I could slide that one in there.
[22:12:48] <jlmjvm_> k,didnt know what u meant
[22:12:56] <Dogfishguzzler> sorry
[22:13:07] <jlmjvm_> no prob
[22:14:00] <skunkworks> hey - I am the only one that can make odd remarks like that.
[22:14:37] <jlmjvm_> i was wondering what the heck :P was
[22:14:45] <cradek> jlmjvm_: if you have a program that shows this behavior you should let us know what it is.
[22:15:05] <jlmjvm_> was just fixing to holler at you
[22:15:11] <jlmjvm_> gonna paste it
[22:15:52] <skunkworks> does it have a M0 in it? ;)
[22:16:14] <skunkworks> ^ see how well I do the 'odd remarks'
[22:16:29] <alex_joni> maybe it has an M1 ?
[22:16:52] <Dogfishguzzler> lol Skunkworks, sorry about my indiscretion.
[22:17:03] <jlmjvm_> http://pastebin.com/d7f8bd63f
[22:17:08] <jlmjvm_> no m0
[22:17:29] <alex_joni> jlmjvm_: what line does it stop at?
[22:18:30] <jlmjvm_> n105
[22:19:29] <cradek> what emc version?
[22:19:31] <jlmjvm_> it would make the first cut,start the second and stop at that line,would also run the finish cut
[22:19:35] <jlmjvm_> 2.2.1
[22:19:44] <jlmjvm_> havent updated it yet
[22:19:50] <alex_joni> that's an arc.. there was something borken with small arcs in 2.2.1
[22:20:53] <jlmjvm_> but it makes an identical pass above that at the same numbers,thats what confused me
[22:21:04] <jlmjvm_> and no error message
[22:21:33] <alex_joni> jlmjvm_: can you please try to upgrade to 2.2.2 ?
[22:21:33] <jlmjvm_> its running on my simulator,but its 2.2.2
[22:21:54] <alex_joni> the change from 2.2.1 to 2.2.2 doesn't have an impact on your config at all
[22:21:55] <jlmjvm_> i sure will,u think that might be it?
[22:22:11] <alex_joni> it saves me from diggin further if it's that
[22:22:33] <cradek> I ran it on 2.2.2 and it zipped past N105
[22:22:47] <jlmjvm_> mine too
[22:24:33] <Dogfishguzzler> Can a bipolar stepper run in either two or four phases?
[22:24:53] <Dogfishguzzler> Or is it one or the other?
[22:24:55] <LawrenceG> also seemed to run right thru on pre2.2.3 cvs sim build
[22:24:59] <jlmjvm_> emc2_2.2.2_i386.deb ,is that what i need to put on my thumb drive to do the update?
[22:25:21] <cradek> a bipolar stepper always has both coils on. you reverse polarities to step.
[22:25:28] <cradek> jlmjvm_: yes
[22:25:37] <cradek> (your program finished fine)
[22:25:55] <alex_joni> I loaded it in 2.2.1 sim->axis
[22:26:15] <jlmjvm_> did it hang up?
[22:26:17] <alex_joni> it doesn't get over N40
[22:26:19] <Dogfishguzzler> I have some more questions but I'll wait until jlmjvm resolves his issue. I'm not actually doing anything right now, I have time.
[22:26:21] <alex_joni> yup.. hangs there
[22:26:37] <jlmjvm_> well thats great news
[22:26:39] <cradek> interesting
[22:26:45] <jlmjvm_> long live 2.2.2
[22:29:50] <alex_joni> Issuing EMC_TRAJ_CIRCULAR_MOVE -- (+221,+168, +0,-5.272100,7.059600,0.130000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,-5.017800,6.719100,0.130000,0.000000,0.000000,1.000000, -1, +3,0.000000,0.000000,20.000000, +0,)
[22:29:59] <alex_joni> can't really get there if the speed is 0
[22:32:01] <jlmjvm_> alex_joni:?
[22:32:29] <alex_joni> jlmjvm_: probably a bug n emc 2.2.1 which causes the selected feedrate for the circle to be 0
[22:33:12] <alex_joni> jlmjvm_: the paste was for cradek mainly (he is part of a private club of people who actually understand what those numbers mean :P)
[22:34:11] <jlmjvm_> k,does the deb have to be in a certain place before you issue the $ sudo dpkg -i filename.deb command?
[22:34:24] <jlmjvm_> hey,i wanna join that club
[22:34:49] <jepler> it's not so much a private club as one whose address is not published anywhere
[22:35:07] <jepler> bbl
[22:35:48] <alex_joni> jlmjvm_: no, no particular place needed
[22:35:55] <jlmjvm_> cool
[22:36:00] <alex_joni> jlmjvm_: I could tell you how to join, but then I'd have to kill you
[22:36:37] <jlmjvm_> lol
[22:43:51] <jlmjvm_> alex_joni:will this be the sudo command: $ sudo dpkg -i filename.deb,or $ sudo dpkg -i emc2_2.2.2_i386.deb
[22:51:01] <alex_joni> the second one of course
[22:53:16] <jlmjvm_> k,iget this if i try: bash: $: command not found
[22:54:15] <jepler> "$" represents the shell prompt; you don't type that aprt
[22:57:02] <jlmjvm_> gotcha
[22:58:41] <jlmjvm_> http://pastebin.com/d3493911f
[22:59:21] <jlmjvm_> is that what it should say if i already have 2.2.2 installed,the deb is on the desktop
[22:59:49] <jepler> "no particular place" is not accurate: you must be in the directory with the .deb file, or you must give the full path to it on the commandline
[22:59:58] <jepler> it's just like any other commandline program that takes a file as an argument
[23:00:45] <jlmjvm_> where would you put it?
[23:01:18] <jepler> you already downloaded it. Just "cd" to that directory before running the "sudo dpkg" command
[23:02:00] <jlmjvm_> im gonna be installing it tomorrow on a mill with no internet,will use thumb drive
[23:02:25] <jepler> OK that's fine, just remember to "cd" to that location before you run the dpkg command.
[23:02:50] <jlmjvm_> lemmee try
[23:05:00] <jlmjvm_> that works, cd /home/jlmjvm/Desktop,then do the sudo
[23:05:28] <jlmjvm_> thanks
[23:16:36] <cradek> ha, my chinese hole gauges are four ranges: 1/8 to 1/5, 1/5 to 3/10, 3/10 to 2/5, 2/5 to 1/2
[23:16:48] <cradek> it's as if they don't quite get our silly fractions
[23:17:06] <alex_joni> * alex_joni was just wondeirng..
[23:17:23] <alex_joni> wondering even.. anything wrong with those ranges?
[23:18:23] <Dogfishguzzler> lol
[23:18:31] <cradek> they would be more naturally written as .125 to .200, or 1/8 to 3/16, or bizarrely enough, 1/8 to #8, haha
[23:19:12] <alex_joni> weeeell.. that's not making much sense to me :)
[23:19:18] <cradek> well calling the last one natural is a big stretch
[23:19:38] <alex_joni> ok, I saw lots of /2 /4 /8 and /16
[23:19:53] <alex_joni> but /5 /10 were new
[23:21:20] <ds2> it ismore natural then 1/sqrt(2)-1/2 ;)
[23:22:04] <alex_joni> 1/sqrt(2)-1/2 or 1/(sqrt(2)-1/2)) ?
[23:22:20] <ds2> as written, so the first one
[23:22:32] <ds2> ~0.707... - 0.500
[23:22:45] <alex_joni> if u say :P
[23:23:03] <ds2> geometric!
[23:23:13] <alex_joni> mean
[23:23:30] <Dogfishguzzler> Heys, I think I'found stepper eureka (for me anyway). I think my many simple questions will go away after finding this paper. However, the lack of editing makes me wonder how far I should absorb this info. If anybody has the time or will would you scan this and tell me what you think?
[23:23:31] <Dogfishguzzler> http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/an/1679.pdf
[23:25:25] <alex_joni> Dogfishguzzler: looks good to me
[23:25:35] <alex_joni> maybe a tiny bit too advanced for your first steps
[23:26:08] <Dogfishguzzler> Not really alex_joni, I devour this type of stuff. For some reason he's been the easiest to understand.
[23:26:38] <Dogfishguzzler> But it;s good that that paper has your endorsement
[23:27:02] <Dogfishguzzler> Makes me feel better about taking it as gospel.
[23:27:06] <alex_joni> Dogfishguzzler: go to geckodrives.com, g201 or any other stepper driver
[23:27:19] <Dogfishguzzler> Are they free?
[23:27:23] <alex_joni> there should be a doc there called stepper motor basics
[23:27:28] <Dogfishguzzler> ok
[23:27:28] <alex_joni> read that one
[23:27:36] <Dogfishguzzler> right on, thanks
[23:28:27] <alex_joni> got it?
[23:28:29] <Dogfishguzzler> *occurs that alex_joni could have added the http: so I could lazily click the link*
[23:28:32] <alex_joni> http://www.geckodrive.com/photos/Step_motor_basics.pdf
[23:28:38] <Dogfishguzzler> lol yeah I there
[23:28:39] <Dogfishguzzler> brb
[23:28:39] <alex_joni> better?
[23:28:55] <Dogfishguzzler> * Dogfishguzzler thinks thats too easy
[23:29:03] <Dogfishguzzler> brb
[23:32:39] <Dogfishguzzler> The wiring info seems to be Gecko specific, talk about over my head lol. Im still trying to understand the difference between bi-polar and uni-polar, four phase and two phase.
[23:33:05] <Dogfishguzzler> He jumps out da gate with ohm's law being applied to a torque curve :D
[23:34:09] <Dogfishguzzler> My ultimate goal is to learn enough about the motors to modify the .hal files and be able to actually understand what I'm doing.
[23:34:19] <amorneau> HI guys, Im trying to setup a Sherline inch mill but it moves about a tenth of distance that EMC thinks it does. Can you please help?
[23:35:05] <jlmjvm_> is it a new install?
[23:35:41] <amorneau> jlmjvm: yes, I want to use the latest EMC and I just installed the Ubuntu disc
[23:36:47] <jlmjvm_> did you do a stepconf config yet
[23:37:36] <amorneau> If I try to bump the INPUT_SCALE, I get an error message: the maximum velocity of 16000 steps/sec is too high
[23:38:22] <amorneau> jlmjvm_: I m sorry but I don t know what a stepconf config is
[23:39:20] <jlmjvm_> applications/cnc/emc stepconf wizard
[23:39:34] <jlmjvm_> its in the pulldown menu
[23:39:57] <alex_joni> amorneau:
[23:40:13] <alex_joni> amorneau: you were going the right way
[23:40:16] <amorneau> jlmjvm: I dont have this program. Sounds like what I need
[23:40:34] <alex_joni> if you increase INPUT_SCALE, then you also might want to decrease max_vel
[23:41:04] <alex_joni> or you should look at BASE_THREAD to see if you can make it faster (but that depends on the machine.. )
[23:41:41] <alex_joni> amorneau: I'd start by finding the right BASE_THREAD for your machine (keep decreasing the value until the machine feels sluggish.. then turn it up a bit)
[23:41:55] <alex_joni> something like 20000 or 15000 would be good values
[23:42:08] <alex_joni> amorneau: what Live CD did you grab?
[23:42:08] <amorneau> alex_joni: the max_velocity is paying off :-)
[23:42:29] <amorneau> alex_joni: I stole it from the website 2 days ago
[23:42:39] <alex_joni> then it should have stepconf on the menu
[23:43:00] <alex_joni> Applications->CNC->EMC@ Stepconf Wizard
[23:43:04] <alex_joni> EMC2
[23:44:01] <alex_joni> bbl
[23:44:05] <amorneau> alex_joni: I have 2.1.7, but no stepconf. This is strange
[23:44:11] <jlmjvm_> later alex
[23:44:23] <alex_joni> 2.1.7 is not the latest
[23:44:27] <amorneau> thanks for the help jlmjvm_
[23:44:33] <jlmjvm_> can you download the new cd,its better
[23:44:34] <alex_joni> on the latest you have 2.2.1
[23:44:40] <alex_joni> jlmjvm_: no need
[23:44:58] <alex_joni> especially if he doesn't have a config.. just upgrading should be 5 minutes
[23:45:24] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.2
[23:45:31] <amorneau> I ll see about upgrading right now, but I was making progress with the max_vel. I think max_accel is also important
[23:45:55] <amorneau> see you in a few minutes, and thanks for the help
[23:46:01] <alex_joni> amorneau: yes it is
[23:46:23] <alex_joni> amorneau: but it would make a lot of sense to start with 2.2.2 (the latest..) instead of 2.1.7
[23:48:10] <jlmjvm_> alex_joni:thanks for running that program in 2.2.1 earlier,im confident that the update will cure my problem in the morning
[23:48:24] <amorneau> My Synaptic repositories were pointing me to 2.1
[23:49:41] <amorneau> I can see the wizard...