#emc | Logs for 2007-11-26

[00:01:50] <BigJohnT> its set at 15000
[00:02:57] <BigJohnT> I just changed it to 20000 and the error went away...
[00:05:43] <BigJohnT> Now I still get a joint 1 following error in rapid moves. (stepper system)
[00:10:06] <BigJohnT> I get the error at about a Vel: 97 IPM
[00:14:19] <owhite> hello folks. I'm thinking of cratting a new motion control system. Does anyone have any recommendations for the latest state of the art for boards that drive gecko servo drivers?
[00:14:30] <owhite> sorry: s/cratting/creating/
[00:15:05] <owhite> also taking suggestions for alternatives to gecko servo drivers.
[00:16:23] <SkinnypuppY34> Are you wanting to build some controllers? Look here if so , http://www.pminmo.com/
[00:16:55] <owhite> looking...
[00:18:37] <owhite> are all those build from scratch? I've done too much circuit board building, much rather buy a premade board.
[00:19:27] <SkinnypuppY34> I'm not too familiar with that site, but I want to say they sold board only or kit at one time.
[00:20:32] <owhite> the Universal Stepper Controller is more what I'm looking for -- just wondering if there's anything new that people are using.
[00:21:14] <SkinnypuppY34> http://pminmo.com/forsale/blankpcbs.htm
[00:25:24] <BigJohnT> I used the C1G with geckos
[00:25:37] <owhite> pointer to the C1G?
[00:26:02] <owhite> oh, found it.
[00:26:13] <BigJohnT> www.cnc4pc.com
[00:27:18] <cradek> for a servo system geckos are not a good solution with EMC because they run open loop (encoder feedback to the drive, not EMC)
[00:27:40] <cradek> a better solution involves something like a Mesa board and analog servo amps
[00:28:10] <owhite> mesa ships the analog servos boards? I think I'd need like 20 amps.
[00:29:32] <cradek> there is a mesa board that has +-10V analog outputs (coming from pwm)
[00:29:46] <cradek> you can drive many servo amps with this signal
[00:29:57] <owhite> my servers are 60V.
[00:30:03] <owhite> dont want to swap them out.
[00:30:45] <owhite> right now I'm running the pico systems universal stepper control going to gecko servo drivers -- its been working great for a couple years now.
[00:31:05] <cradek> brb
[02:04:49] <eric_U> from the PMinMo site: " After numerious inquiries from people that wanted to purchase blank PCB's and didn't want to make their own PCB's, I decided to start offering some for sale. "
[02:05:05] <eric_U> which is a good thing since they are no longer open-source
[02:13:33] <eric_U> anyone remember who the person was that made rings with EMC?
[02:27:15] <eric_U> I'm still the highest bidder on a servo amp I don't want
[02:31:49] <eric_U> this is funny: http://cgi.ebay.com/C35416-Lot-2-Kollmorgen-ROL-20012-0000-Servo-Controller_W0QQitemZ330190534481QQihZ014QQcategoryZ78191QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[02:31:54] <eric_U> gutted servo amps
[02:32:30] <eric_U> i.e. a batch of capacitors, a 120v ac connector, and some sheet metal
[03:12:51] <CIA-23> 03jepler 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/main.lyx: update M6 to reflect implementation
[03:13:03] <CIA-23> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/main.lyx: merge from branch: update M6 to reflect implementation
[03:24:29] <CIA-23> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/nc_files/ (comp311.ngc comp311_2.ngc): add z moves so that the z position is defined, particularly after the toolchange
[03:24:56] <CIA-23> 03jepler 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/nc_files/ (comp311.ngc comp311_2.ngc): merge from trunk: add z moves so that the z position is defined, particularly after the toolchange
[03:31:43] <CIA-23> 03jepler 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emccanon.cc: fix for helical moves with helical component greater than zero but less than a silly threshhold (I hope this gets fixed in a better way on TRUNK, this is a band-aid)
[03:59:21] <CIA-23> 03jepler 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: new items fixed
[06:12:24] <eric_Unter> trying to update to 2.22
[06:12:41] <eric_Unter> I'm following the wiki, tells me that it's too far into the future
[06:20:03] <eric_Unter> false alarm, it updated
[13:11:56] <jepler> eric_U: the latest released version is 2.2.1; 2.2.2 will probably be out in the next week or two with additional bugs fixed
[13:43:06] <CIA-23> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/stepconf/stepconf.py:
[13:43:06] <CIA-23> fix several bugs:
[13:43:06] <CIA-23> * axis test didn't work at all due to change from pin function numbers to strings
[13:43:06] <CIA-23> * axis test didn't work with negative scales (gave weird results for velocity)
[13:43:06] <CIA-23> * axis test didn't work with fractional values
[13:43:06] <CIA-23> * axis test printed several halcmd errors because of missing newlines
[13:43:08] <CIA-23> (and didn't execute the associated lines)
[13:47:20] <Guest443> hi to all
[13:48:09] <Guest443> ther's enyone?
[13:50:48] <ZaaN> yep
[13:51:47] <tomp> Hugomatic: hope you scan the archives... i commented on your wiki page
[13:52:48] <CIA-23> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/stepconf/stepconf.py: one more negative scale fix
[13:55:19] <CIA-23> 03jepler 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/stepconf/stepconf.py:
[13:55:19] <CIA-23> merge from TRUNK: fix several bugs:
[13:55:19] <CIA-23> * axis test didn't work at all due to change from pin function numbers to strings
[13:55:19] <CIA-23> * axis test didn't work with negative scales (gave weird results for velocity)
[13:55:19] <CIA-23> * axis test didn't work with fractional values
[13:55:20] <CIA-23> * axis test printed several halcmd errors because of missing newlines
[13:55:50] <CIA-23> 03jepler 07v2_2_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: note new bugs fixed
[16:09:11] <jepler> "Bit 29 of the CR0 register is the not writethrough disable bit"
[16:12:37] <skunkworks179> huh
[16:19:13] <skunkworks179> the 2.2.1 live cd works :)
[16:19:22] <cradek> yay
[16:19:59] <skunkworks179> this 550 pentium III has a max jitter of 15000
[16:20:10] <cradek> long live the P3
[16:20:17] <skunkworks179> Hi cradek. How was turkey day?
[16:20:43] <cradek> fine, we visited my parents but ran for it after only about 3 hours
[16:21:19] <cradek> having the family nearby allows shorter visits
[16:27:31] <skunkworks179> sounds about right :)
[16:27:43] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/798116
[16:28:00] <skunkworks179> We had turykey dinner twice at our house. once for my wifes familly and once for mine. Went well.
[16:28:43] <skunkworks179> the second meal went smoother - and the turkey tasted better.
[16:29:02] <skunkworks179> (we stuffed it with garlic, lemon and onions.
[16:29:57] <jlmjvm> jepler:if you get a chance could you take a peek at that,could that ever be set up to write to the tool.tbl?
[16:31:40] <jlmjvm> or am i going the wrong way and need to start over
[16:33:26] <jepler> one step is to gather then information you need, and another step is to put it in the place it needs to be. It looks like this program gathers the information so it's a good first step.
[16:38:13] <jlmjvm> my friend made that for me yesterday,what we cant find is an example of is how to write to a specific location in a file
[16:39:34] <jlmjvm> can write to a file,but wouldnt you have to be able to put the info in a certain location?
[16:43:45] <skunkworks179> 14271 still
[16:43:52] <skunkworks179> even after the screen saver came up
[16:47:17] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: you can append to the end, and use the new number
[16:47:23] <alex_joni> bbl
[16:50:26] <jepler> you have to read the file then write a modified version of the file
[16:53:46] <jlmjvm> k,just wanted to make sure it was even possible with the tool.tbl file
[16:55:12] <jlmjvm> thanks
[16:56:54] <jepler> I imagine that to write a new tool table based on the old one and the input from the user, you'd follow steps similar to these: http://pastebin.ca/798162
[16:57:37] <skunkworks179> jepler: stepconf is very neat.
[16:57:40] <skunkworks179> Nice work
[16:58:39] <jepler> it's buggy, but it's getting better
[16:58:49] <jepler> if you run into any options that don't work, let me know
[16:59:12] <skunkworks179> No problem
[16:59:35] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes home to pack
[16:59:36] <alex_joni> bbl
[17:30:53] <skunkworks179> arc to arcturus
[17:41:19] <jepler> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWKYQUj5AOs
[17:44:59] <skunkworks179> holy crap - that is freakin awesome
[17:46:37] <jepler> thanks
[17:46:58] <cradek> wheee
[17:49:14] <cradek> jepler: that's really great. Thanks for figuring out how to make that video.
[17:50:09] <jepler> yeah I should blog the steps to make the video
[17:50:36] <skunkworks179> Your quick on the mouse
[17:50:56] <jepler> but one of those steps (use a client-side version of libgl) is probably hard for most people to do
[17:51:17] <jepler> skunkworks179: the video is playing at at approx. 150% speed too
[17:51:32] <skunkworks179> ah - ok
[17:51:38] <skunkworks179> That is so neat.
[17:53:36] <skunkworks179> jepler now has a youtube account.
[17:53:38] <skunkworks179> :)
[18:11:16] <alex_joni> nice stuff
[18:12:57] <alex_joni> one thing missing from that video though.. sound :D
[18:13:20] <alex_joni> (steps -> pc_speaker would be something :)
[18:15:28] <skunkworks179> what is it making?
[18:16:17] <jlmjvm> that is a really cool video jepler
[18:17:26] <jlmjvm> is that apart of emc 2.2.1
[18:17:38] <alex_joni> no.. it will be in 2.3.x
[18:18:16] <jlmjvm> excellent,will it have different machine types
[18:18:31] <alex_joni> we are open to contibutions :P
[18:18:54] <alex_joni> but 2.2.x already has some robots (puma & scara & hexapod type)
[18:19:59] <jlmjvm> obviously im not very good at python,lol,but making some solid models is a different story,if thats what is required
[18:20:48] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: it's quite easy
[18:21:05] <alex_joni> you just have to use some predefined blocks (like box, cone, etc) to shape up the machine
[18:21:48] <jlmjvm> ahh,very cool
[18:22:16] <jlmjvm> cant wait to get on that,a bridgeport boss simulator
[18:26:07] <skunkworks179> skunkworks179 is now known as skunkworks_
[18:33:15] <jlmjvm> jepler:could the current tool.tbl have an extra set of numbers added,ex:Nominal Dia,and Dia Offset,axis using the nominal,and the program using the offset
[18:44:46] <jlmjvm> the display looks so good with the tool diameter,hate to see it change when you have to use a small cutter comp amount
[19:03:56] <alex_joni> bbl
[19:24:06] <jepler> jlmjvm: you can't change the format of the tool table without modifying many other parts of emc
[19:24:22] <jlmjvm> k
[20:04:17] <jepler> laguille: just ask your questions, and if someone knows the answer he'll tell you
[20:18:46] <Arcturus> Arcturus is now known as Dalran
[20:26:58] <laguille> ok the mecanic of my cnc is soon completed, i can use the max configuration in manual mode, the question is: I use gears (pinions /different ratio) between the motor shaft and the screw this reduce of corse the speed ... what are the different parameter in the ini file to ajust the distance vs the rotation ?
[20:27:25] <jepler> the INPUT_SCALE gives the number of steps per mm
[20:27:38] <jepler> (or inch, depending which you selected in another portion of the inifile)
[20:28:57] <jepler> the sample configuration "max" uses inches, and its X scale is 6400
[20:29:12] <laguille> ok, i only have to adjust this for example count the number of turn to move 10 centimeters and adpt.?
[20:29:33] <jepler> this is because the motors are in half-step mode (400 step pulses per revolution), it is direct-drive, and the thread is 16 per inch -- 400*(1/1)*16 = 6400
[20:30:11] <jepler> you should be able to calculate the correct value based on what you know about your stepper driver, motors, pulleys, and leadscrew
[20:30:35] <laguille> ok not with mesure...
[20:31:12] <jepler> (step pulses per revolution) * (pulley ratio) / (leadscrew pitch in mm)
[20:33:19] <jepler> I assume you want to configure your system as metric, since you're not in the US
[20:34:02] <laguille> thanks for the calcul, i have the following message when i want to start the automatic program: the machine exceeds the minimum on X axis, y, z.,,, is it the machine size value (i have no ini file behind the hand i can not see the parameter...)in the inifile? ..... i want to use the mm milimeter
[20:34:55] <jepler> the MIN_LIMIT and MAX_LIMIT lines in the inifile say what the allowable travel on the axis is. you probably need to change that too. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/config_ini_config.html#MIN%20LIMIT
[20:37:46] <MASEngr> Good afternoon, everyone. A quick question: Where do you set the max spindle speed?
[20:38:01] <laguille> ok, i have another problem: when i run (in manual continous) at full speed the stepper motor are blocked i think the frequency of clock for the L297 /L298 ic any ider
[20:38:12] <jepler> on max, the X travel is a little bit less than 8 inches (200mm), and it was arbitrarily chosen that the zero position would be on the extreme left of the table, so the soft limits were made -0.101 inch and 7.751 inch -- if you change the configuration to metric but don't change these numbers, it will be a very small working area
[20:39:33] <jepler> MASEngr: there's not really a spindle speed limit. However, you can do anything you want to the spindle speed in HAL. For instance, you could use a 'limit' component to set a maximum value.
[20:39:47] <jepler> MASEngr: there's not a way to stop the program and show a message to the operator if the value requested is too high, though
[20:40:34] <jepler> laguille: do you mean the motor stalls (stops in place and buzzes, or doesn't go the desired distance)? That means your velocity or acceleration setting is too high for your motor/driver combination. you have to experimentally try different values until you find ones that don't exhibit a problem.
[20:41:59] <jepler> MASEngr: depending on how you are creating the output for the spindle hardware, that component might have a limit built in too. for instance, pwmgen has a parameter called 'max-dc' which can be used to limit its output value
[20:42:31] <MASEngr> Jepler: Okay. When I set the speed to 3400 (the max) I'm getting 8.0V out of the output card.
[20:42:53] <laguille> yes thats it, when i run from 5 to 15 it'ok the motor runs very well, in silence... but when in increasese the speed the motor is "in the street[fou] "
[20:42:57] <cradek> maybe you are asking about dac scaling then?
[20:43:17] <MASEngr> Jepler: The AC drive had an "incident" last week, and the setting weren't documented. It's wokring now, but at a really slow speed.
[20:44:26] <probin> Hi, What is the hal meter/scope signal that corresponds to the following error
[20:44:46] <cradek> axis.N.ferror
[20:44:51] <probin> thank you
[20:44:57] <jepler> or maybe axis.n.f-error
[20:45:12] <cradek> something like that. should be obvious from looking at the list.
[20:45:18] <jepler> it's a "parameter"
[20:45:34] <jepler> you can see a list of pins and parameters that the real-time motion controller creates by typing in a terminal: man 9 motion
[20:46:17] <JymmmEMC> too bad you can't see their values on the console too,
[20:46:28] <JymmmEMC> just for shits and giggles
[20:47:03] <jepler> you can, with halcmd show
[20:47:14] <jlmjvm> thats what i use
[20:47:20] <JymmmEMC> jepler: all of them (or a subset) kinda like TOP ?
[20:48:11] <jepler> with 'watch' you can run it periodically and display the output
[20:48:12] <jepler> watch halcmd show pin axis.0
[20:48:14] <jepler> e.g., ^
[20:48:40] <JymmmEMC> ah, one at a time.
[20:48:58] <jepler> that shows all pins starting with "axis.0", but halcmd has various ways of specifying what pattern(s) to display
[20:49:09] <JymmmEMC> oh, ok, cool
[20:50:13] <JymmmEMC> Speaking of console... has keystick be revived?
[20:50:41] <jepler> $ dpkg -L emc2 | grep keystick
[20:50:41] <jepler> /etc/emc2/sample-configs/sim/keystick.ini
[20:50:41] <jepler> /usr/bin/keystick
[20:50:48] <jepler> yes but it's no better than it's ever been
[20:50:51] <JymmmEMC> woohoo!
[20:51:06] <laguille> thank you very much jepler i record your answers and go trying, see you next time
[20:51:20] <jepler> good luck laguille , I hope I was able to help
[20:51:52] <laguille> very helpfull thanks thanks again
[20:53:27] <jepler> hmph. you can browse manpages with gnome-help, but you can't select manual section 9 which is where HAL realtime component manpages are stored
[20:56:46] <jepler> and it doesn't respect MANPATH anyway, so in the section 1 listing it doesn't show emc
[20:56:51] <jepler> if you've got a RIP install
[20:57:32] <jepler> there's an undocumented format of the commandline option that will open on a manual page section, but for some reason it only works if gnome-help is already open once (otherwise you get an error): gnome-help 'x-yelp-toc:#Man-man9'
[20:57:52] <jepler> * jepler grumbles at gnome's idea of a help browser
[20:59:01] <MASEngr> Um, are you talking to me, or is my problem different than I thought?
[20:59:10] <jepler> once you find the stepgen mapage, you'll find that it incorrectly renders the step waveform, which I carefully made sure appears correctly on tty, html, and ps/pdf. better yet, it erroneously turns this text from the step waveform into a "hyperlink": |-(1)-|--(2)--|-(1)-|--(3)--|-(4)-|-(1)-|
[20:59:22] <jepler> MASEngr: I'm talking to myself, it's unrelated to your question or laguille's
[20:59:59] <MASEngr> Oh, okay. I thought it was a bit of a non-sequitur, but I wanted to check.
[21:00:10] <jepler> MASEngr: I'd like to see emc's documentation integrated better with ubuntu's normal desktop help system, but there are problems with that
[21:00:26] <jepler> I often say things that non-sequiteurs
[21:01:11] <MASEngr> Non-sequiturs are how things get done.
[21:03:04] <MASEngr> Anyway, is there a way to check a limit for the spindle speed? I'm getting the drive to run at about 80% of max, then half. If I could get the parameters to match, then I'd have a chance of getting the machine working again.
[21:04:13] <MASEngr> It's running through a 5i20 and a 7133, and I can only get 8V when running at 3400 rpm. It should be 10V.
[21:04:27] <MASEngr> But it's hard to tell, since part of the nameplate is missing.
[21:04:42] <MASEngr> (You can see what kind of day I'm having here.)
[21:05:14] <jepler> that's 8.0V measured with the 7i33 connected to the AC drive? or when it's disconnected?
[21:05:25] <MASEngr> Both.
[21:05:35] <jepler> unless you changed your HAL configuration, I would expect the relationship between RPMs requested and voltage output to be the same
[21:05:50] <jepler> what happens if you command 4250rpm? do you get 10v then?
[21:06:02] <MASEngr> Yeah, I would expect that to be the case as well.
[21:07:40] <jepler> for the 5i20/7i33 board, the relationship between the input value (RPM in this case) and the output value in volts is given by the dac offset and gain. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/hal_drivers.html#r1_5_2
[21:09:11] <jepler> volts = (input - offset) * gain
[21:09:51] <jepler> so if after this change in the spindle drive the same voltage gives a different measured RPM, you may be able to compensate for it by changing those HAL parameters
[21:10:48] <MASEngr> Sorry, had some trouble there. Yeah, at 4500, it's getting 10.0V at AI.
[21:11:20] <jepler> it appears that the 5i20 driver doesn't have an option to set the minimum and maximum output voltages, so if you want to cap the voltage you have to do it by using a 'limit2' component on the RPM input value. ("man limit2" at the terminal to see documentation for the limit2 component)
[21:11:36] <jepler> if I'm answering the wrong question, just stop me...
[21:12:09] <MASEngr> Well, the 5i20 is just a middleman, right? The 7133 has a +/- 10V swing, and that seems to be working.
[21:12:24] <MASEngr> I'd like to read the values so I can program the drive correctly.
[21:12:48] <MASEngr> That's where my problem is coming from. I'm not sure what the parameters in the drive are SUPPOSED to be.
[21:13:31] <jepler> look in your .hal files for where you set the gain of the 5i20's dacs
[21:14:58] <jepler> probably m5i20.0.dac-03-gain but I am only guessing
[21:15:31] <jepler> but if you have measured 8.0V for 3500rpm, then you know that emc is giving approximately 437.5 V / rpm
[21:16:04] <jepler> er that's not right
[21:16:12] <skunkworks_> :)
[21:16:17] <SkinnypuppY34> What would you guys bid on this little hardinge? It's not too far from me
[21:16:19] <SkinnypuppY34> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=170171077953&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=007
[21:16:19] <jepler> how about 2.28mV/RPM
[21:18:33] <cradek> SkinnypuppY34: is it as small as it looks?
[21:18:58] <jepler> "The table is 2'x7'"
[21:19:00] <MASEngr> I'll go with 2.22 mV / RPM with 4500 at 10V. Where is that value stored? I've got a fair number of HAL files, and there's a mech guy trying to work on the machine at the same time.
[21:19:07] <cradek> nice.
[21:19:20] <cradek> some of that tooling is for watch/clock work, and some I don't recognize at all
[21:19:46] <SkinnypuppY34> Yeah not big at all,
[21:19:57] <MASEngr> I've looked throught the files, but they don't seem to have a spindle speed, rpm, or analog limit, or anything similar. I tried looking for 4500 and 3400 as well, no dice.
[21:20:03] <jepler> MASEngr: In a terminal, I would change to the directory where the configs are and look at all lines in all hal files with "gain" in them by typing: grep gain *.hal
[21:20:07] <cradek> is it screwcutting? I don't see anywhere for change gears
[21:20:42] <cradek> 16" between centers, .750 through spindle
[21:20:50] <SkinnypuppY34> I don't think it screwcuts or autofeeds
[21:20:54] <cradek> so, a little bigger than it looks
[21:21:01] <cradek> yeah I don't think so either
[21:21:57] <jepler> MASEngr: the maximum speed probably isn't actually written in any .hal file -- it's just whatever number happens to give a 10V output when the "gain" value for the 5i20 is applied
[21:22:07] <JymmmEMC> "I want some!" "Hey, that's mine, get your own!" http://www.freewebs.com/tielygirl/HPIM1078.JPG
[21:22:08] <jepler> RPM values above that will just give 10V out
[21:22:44] <SkinnypuppY34> Bet it would do better small work than this 12x36 enco Seems well tooled for under a grand
[21:23:04] <cradek> it takes 3C (?) collets but I don't see a set included
[21:23:05] <jepler> if there is only one 5i20 card, then it's probably m5i20.0.dac-03-gain, because 0, 1 and 2 are going to be used for X, Y and Z
[21:23:20] <MASEngr> Ah, there we go. It's 0.0235, so the max speed is 4250.
[21:23:25] <MASEngr> Ah, hah!
[21:24:12] <cradek> .00235 I bet
[21:24:25] <MASEngr> So that takes care of the 80% problem. Now I wonder why it's running at 1/2 speed...
[21:24:27] <SkinnypuppY34> A few collets in the wood holder with what looks like watch face or disk chucks
[21:24:40] <cradek> yes those are wheel chucks
[21:24:51] <MASEngr> Yeah, misplaced decimal. I'm not changing the EMC code, I'm programming the drive with that.
[21:25:15] <cradek> I see only about 3 normal collets
[21:26:21] <SkinnypuppY34> I'll just have to see what it gets too, haven't looked on ebay for local lathes lately
[21:31:27] <cradek> maybe it would make a nice cnc retrofit, but it's not very useful as-is without screwcutting (IMO)
[21:31:30] <MASEngr> All right, thanks for the info. The drive and EMC now agree on the speed the motor is at.
[21:32:24] <jepler> MASEngr: great
[21:39:19] <MASEngr> The other problem is that it's running at almost exactly 50% of what it should be running at.
[21:39:35] <MASEngr> So all I did was set the analog gain at 200%. Close enough.
[21:39:42] <MASEngr> (On the drive, that is.)
[21:56:10] <MASEngr> Thanks for the help. I appreciate it.
[21:56:13] <MASEngr> Goodbye.