#emc | Logs for 2007-11-13

[00:13:52] <toastyde1th> toastyde1th is now known as toastydeath
[00:18:36] <jlmjvm> cradek:u got your ears on
[00:20:12] <cradek> depends
[00:20:29] <jlmjvm> emc and axis work correctly with the g18 arc
[00:20:41] <jlmjvm> peter wallace has his numbers wrong
[00:20:51] <cradek> I agree
[00:21:01] <jlmjvm> way wrong
[00:21:04] <cradek> however he might have seen a bug where the preview in AXIS is wrong
[00:21:09] <jlmjvm> would never work
[00:21:17] <cradek> did he post his gcode somewhere?
[00:21:31] <SWPadnos> you man Kirk Wallace?
[00:21:38] <SWPadnos> mean
[00:21:44] <jlmjvm> all i saw was what yall had in the user group email
[00:22:06] <SWPadnos> I think that's Kirk, not Peter (no relation I know of)
[00:22:13] <cradek> yes kirk
[00:22:32] <jlmjvm> yes,more wallaces than i realized
[00:24:23] <jlmjvm> my preview shows correct
[00:25:25] <cradek> good to know, thanks
[00:26:37] <toastydeath> anyone here ever heard of PICpro
[00:27:00] <SWPadnos> the really old PIC programmer that big-bangs on a parallel port?
[00:27:04] <SWPadnos> bit-bangs
[00:27:15] <toastydeath> i don't know
[00:27:32] <SWPadnos> or this: http://www.glcontrols.com/Products/picpro.htm
[00:27:39] <toastydeath> that
[00:27:47] <SWPadnos> nope. never heard of it until now
[00:27:57] <toastydeath> my co-worker bought it to drive a lathe
[00:28:02] <toastydeath> as the "control"
[00:28:12] <SWPadnos> that wasn't too bright, was it?
[00:28:21] <toastydeath> i'm trying to figure out how to tell him
[00:28:26] <toastydeath> because he's got the damn lathe running
[00:28:27] <toastydeath> on picpro
[00:28:33] <toastydeath> it moves, and all sorts of lathey-things
[00:28:34] <toastydeath> or so he thinks
[00:28:40] <jlmjvm> how do you do a screen shot?
[00:28:40] <toastydeath> he's never touched a machine tool before
[00:28:45] <SWPadnos> can he program it with G-code or something else that's at least as useful?
[00:28:48] <toastydeath> swpadnos: no
[00:28:54] <toastydeath> it's all ladder logic and structured text
[00:29:06] <SWPadnos> jlmjvm, hit the print-screen key, or alt-printscreen for just the active window
[00:29:18] <jlmjvm> k
[00:29:20] <toastydeath> he's like, "G-CODE IS THE OLD WAY"
[00:29:27] <toastydeath> and i'm like, yet you've never touched a machine tool
[00:29:40] <toastydeath> strong opinion for someone who has never made a part in his life
[00:29:47] <SWPadnos> well, you could be tactless like me and say something like "that wasn't too bright, was it?"
[00:29:58] <toastydeath> it's going to be funny when they hand it to me and i tell them it's unusuable for what we need
[00:30:15] <SWPadnos> or, "wait a while, then we'll seee who's laughing
[00:30:19] <SWPadnos> '
[00:30:20] <SWPadnos> "
[00:30:22] <SWPadnos> -e
[00:30:25] <toastydeath> it's not entirely his fault
[00:30:31] <toastydeath> he asked a ton of people and got blown off
[00:30:32] <SWPadnos> wait, don't tell me
[00:30:38] <SWPadnos> management error
[00:30:40] <SWPadnos> :)
[00:31:08] <jlmjvm> http://imagebin.org/11701
[00:31:21] <toastydeath> it kind of is
[00:31:28] <toastydeath> the people doing "R&D"
[00:31:33] <toastydeath> have ZERO machine tool experience
[00:31:35] <jlmjvm> cradek:check it out,did that in mdi
[00:31:37] <SWPadnos> well, I could see that software being useful if you wanted a single-purpose lathe that just barfeeds, turns, feeds, turns, signals that it's out of stock ...
[00:31:40] <toastydeath> and they're trying to build the damn things
[00:31:47] <toastydeath> swpadnos: this is for prototyping parts
[00:32:01] <SWPadnos> so it's the opposite of what I just described then
[00:32:04] <toastydeath> yes
[00:32:12] <SWPadnos> so it's useless then
[00:32:16] <toastydeath> at the moment, yes
[00:32:27] <toastydeath> they don't know that yet though
[00:32:28] <SWPadnos> well, I'm sticking to my first statement
[00:32:36] <SWPadnos> you can decide when to tell them ;)
[00:32:39] <toastydeath> they've just got a 11,000 lb chunk of cast iron
[00:32:59] <toastydeath> whatever, i'm not going to say anything until they ask me to program it
[00:33:08] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:33:17] <toastydeath> i'm sort of a bystander
[00:33:29] <SWPadnos> ok - time for me to get back to work. have fun folks
[00:33:31] <toastydeath> have fun.
[00:33:37] <jlmjvm> later
[01:16:56] <buckie555> I'm planning on upgrading a non-networked box that has 2.1.7 currently installed to 2.2.1. I'll manually copy across the deb package. Does anyone know if this new version has any new dependencies beyond what 2.1.7 required. I.e are there likely to be other debs that I'll need to fetch and copy across?
[01:23:36] <SWPadnos> dunno, but I bet dpkg / synaptic could tell you
[01:26:56] <SWPadnos> looking at this diff, it doesn't seem like there are any additional requirements: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/debian/control.in.diff?r1=1.22;r2=
[01:28:05] <buckie555> i guess i was hoping to avoid two trips to the shop, without internet access there it's a bit of a pain. I guess the worst that can happen is that it wont install
[01:28:19] <SWPadnos> right, and it'll tell you what it needs
[01:28:37] <SWPadnos> or, you could use the command line on the net-connected machine, and have it tell you what it's going to install
[01:29:41] <buckie555> Unfortunately I've just upgraded that and neglected to watch what it was doing - I was in a hurry to get it running to fix some ladder issues, - which it has done thankfully
[01:29:50] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:29:59] <SWPadnos> well, you can loko at the depends in synaptic
[01:30:01] <SWPadnos> look
[01:30:11] <SWPadnos> see if there are any differences.
[01:30:39] <SWPadnos> that diff told me that it's not longer picky about the specific version of python, but is otherwise the same (but I could have misinterpreted that)
[01:32:51] <buckie555> I'm running kubuntu which uses adept - I don't think synaptic is installed - I might be wrong. I wonder if I can find out from dpkg instead
[01:33:34] <SWPadnos> does adept have a "package properties" menu item/icon?
[01:36:05] <buckie555> no - it shows the packages required by the current version 2.2.1 but i can't see any way to find out the packages required by my previously installed version
[01:36:44] <cradek> do you still have the live cd? you could just boot it and try the upgrade
[01:37:24] <SWPadnos> that diff is between the debian control file used for 2.1.x and that used for 2.2.x
[01:37:39] <SWPadnos> so it should show exactly what you want, if you can read diffs in a debian control file :)
[01:40:09] <buckie555> the live cd is an option - thanks
[01:41:17] <buckie555> did you mean the package file at http://www.linuxcnc.org/emc2/dists/dapper/emc2.2/binary-i386/Packages
[01:41:53] <cradek> for a careful finishing cut on cast iron with carbide, what sfm?
[01:41:55] <buckie555> I suppose i can just compare it's 2.2.1 entry with the entry for 2.1.7
[01:42:02] <cradek> I know it should be cut dry
[01:42:14] <jmkasunich__> dunno about carbide
[01:42:23] <jmkasunich__> the key IMO is a _sharp_ cutter
[01:42:29] <jmkasunich__> otherwise you'll get rubbing
[01:42:35] <jmkasunich__> and a non-uniform finish
[01:43:01] <cradek> I have a choice of new carbide inserts (face mill) or a handmade fly HSS flycutter
[01:43:09] <cradek> s/fly//
[01:43:16] <jmkasunich__> heh
[01:43:27] <jmkasunich__> is the cut going to be very light (depth of cut)?
[01:43:39] <cradek> yes maybe .002 at a time
[01:43:47] <cradek> it should only take .004 altogether
[01:43:54] <SWPadnos> buckie555, I meant this diff: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/debian/control.in.diff?r1=1.22;r2=
[01:43:59] <jmkasunich__> is this that vise cleanup?
[01:44:03] <cradek> yes
[01:44:12] <cradek> turns out the base is flat(ish) but the top surface is twisty
[01:44:15] <jmkasunich__> and you know it is unhardened cast iron?
[01:44:26] <cradek> all I know is it's cast, and it cuts easily with a file
[01:44:35] <cradek> how do I tell for sure?
[01:44:45] <jmkasunich__> to be honest, I dunno
[01:44:51] <jmkasunich__> it might be cast steel, etc
[01:45:07] <cradek> still, cuts easily with a file...
[01:45:16] <cradek> ack, sorry to distract from emc talk
[01:45:26] <jmkasunich__> heh, thats ok
[01:45:48] <buckie555> swpadnos - thanks for that - will take a look
[01:45:51] <cradek> the good part is it indicates about the same after clamping to the mill as it did on the surface plate
[01:46:07] <jmkasunich__> so its not deflecting when you clamp it down
[01:46:09] <cradek> seems within .0005 everywhere
[01:46:11] <cradek> right
[01:46:19] <cradek> the bottom seems quite flat (and the mill table must be too)
[01:46:23] <SWPadnos> buckie555, you're welcome
[01:46:37] <cradek> the top is terrible, it would rock on the plate as the indicator swung back and forth .004
[01:46:49] <toastydeath> are you trying to determine flatness of a surface
[01:46:53] <toastydeath> independant of parallism
[01:47:03] <cradek> no, I want the top of the vise parallel to the bottom
[01:47:07] <toastydeath> oh
[01:47:17] <cradek> brb
[01:50:22] <fenn> narf
[01:51:13] <fenn> i was watching this old lathe howto film, they were using cutters with like 1/4" nose radius for roughing cuts
[01:51:51] <toastydeath> leaves a better surface finish when you use high feeds
[01:51:54] <fenn> and the chips just peel off smooth
[01:51:54] <jmkasunich__> big old lathes?
[01:51:55] <toastydeath> .050"/rev and up
[01:52:13] <fenn> no, not particularly. i think one of them was actually the same as mine (atlas 10")
[01:52:36] <jmkasunich__> interesting, I wouldn't have expected that on a smallish lathe
[01:52:44] <toastydeath> what was the depth
[01:52:51] <toastydeath> .1?
[01:52:55] <toastydeath> (inch)
[01:52:57] <fenn> maybe 3/8?
[01:53:04] <fenn> per rev, no idea
[01:53:10] <toastydeath> well i meant depth of cut
[01:53:27] <toastydeath> which you answered!
[01:53:58] <toastydeath> aluminum?
[01:54:05] <fenn> hot rolled steel bar
[01:54:11] <toastydeath> that is pretty neat
[01:54:16] <toastydeath> do you have the link?
[01:54:20] <fenn> will look, sec
[01:54:22] <toastydeath> ty
[01:56:45] <toastydeath> there are a pretty good swath of smaller lathes that are fairly rigid
[01:56:53] <toastydeath> all used, though
[01:59:19] <fenn> gosh i hope i didnt dream this
[01:59:39] <toastydeath> i don't think you did
[02:00:09] <fenn> it was a link cradek posted, "how to run a lathe" films
[02:00:35] <toastydeath> that was done on a south bend 10"
[02:00:35] <toastydeath> i believe
[02:00:44] <toastydeath> "how to run a lathe"
[02:01:11] <fenn> yes but the other films have other lathes
[02:01:35] <toastydeath> oh
[02:02:43] <fenn> i bet the logger just missed it
[02:02:51] <cradek> must be cast iron. it's making dust.
[02:04:56] <fenn> toastydeath: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/single_point.mp4
[02:05:03] <fenn> cant find the original link
[02:07:15] <toastydeath> ty
[02:07:18] <toastydeath> loadin'
[02:08:22] <fenn> that's definitely an atlas 10"
[02:10:46] <jmkasunich__> how big is that file, and is it on your DSL line?
[02:11:39] <fenn> 70MB and yes, but i dont mind
[02:18:04] <cradek> the clear winner is HSS...
[02:18:23] <jmkasunich__> how many cuts did you have to take to find that out?
[02:18:35] <jmkasunich__> I was gonna suggest trials, but assumed you couldn't afford that
[02:18:48] <toastydeath> that's a pretty light cut
[02:19:28] <cradek> 400rpm, one tooth = be very patient
[02:19:33] <jmkasunich__> heh
[02:19:42] <toastydeath> i'm looking at the cut halfway through the vid
[02:19:59] <toastydeath> is there one more?
[02:20:02] <cradek> I hope it stays sharp through it all
[02:20:06] <jmkasunich__> toastydeath: I think cradek is talking about his vise reconditioning
[02:20:11] <toastydeath> ah
[02:20:21] <toastydeath> nevermind my good sir
[02:44:58] <jmkasunich__> the ultra-slomo in that video is neat
[03:41:38] <cradek> well that was wildly successful
[03:54:44] <user_> Your vice? How did it turn out?
[03:55:34] <cradek> great
[03:55:49] <cradek> within .0005 in every direction I can think to measure
[03:56:00] <cradek> after rotating it into place and mounting it
[03:56:29] <cradek> so about 1/10th the error I started with - not bad
[03:56:36] <user_> Cutting bottom or the jaw ways?
[03:56:41] <cradek> the ways
[03:56:51] <cradek> the bottom started flat
[03:57:07] <cradek> I measured very very carefully to figure out what to cut
[03:57:17] <eric_1> every mill should have internet access
[03:57:26] <cradek> haha
[03:57:29] <cradek> I'm back inside now
[03:57:34] <cradek> but yeah, I chat while it's cutting
[03:57:55] <eric_1> I've got to turn my mill around the computer is in the corner
[03:58:41] <eric_1> claustrophobic back there between the mill table and the lathe
[03:58:58] <eric_1> especially since I can't figure out how to do estop
[04:00:44] <SWPadnos> sounds death-o-phobic
[04:01:21] <user_> .0005 not bad bet it will work better now...
[04:01:44] <SWPadnos> probably need a grinder or a non-homemade flycutter to get any better :)
[04:01:45] <cradek> yes but what will I do with all that shim stock now?
[04:01:54] <SWPadnos> melt it and start casting
[04:02:15] <cradek> SWPadnos: my flycutter tool was excellent - I spent a lot of time on it
[04:02:23] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:02:58] <SWPadnos> it kind of doesn't matter unless you're taking heavy cuts and it's a spindly thing - a spinning dingus can't help but spin in a plane
[04:03:10] <SWPadnos> unless it's flexy
[04:03:14] <eric_1> death-o-phobic is what I'm trying to avoid
[04:03:18] <cradek> true
[04:03:34] <cradek> but you can't get a good finish with a dull or misshapen tool
[04:03:36] <user_> eric hope you have some limits set
[04:03:51] <eric_1> falling and crushing are the two most common fatal industrial accidents
[04:04:23] <SWPadnos> or being crushed under some falling thing - the best of both worlds!
[04:04:37] <eric_1> and then they pour concrete over you!
[04:04:41] <eric_1> as a bonus
[04:07:56] <eric_1> if the wrench doesn't work, try a shotgun http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7091904.stm
[04:08:51] <user_> Geez
[04:10:18] <cradek> wow, that's sure bright
[04:10:22] <cradek> hard to believe he wasn't drunk
[04:10:32] <eric_1> that's what I was thinking
[04:10:35] <cradek> (penetrating oil + time are your friends)
[04:10:51] <eric_1> after 2 weeks, you're stuck
[04:11:04] <eric_1> a torch will work though
[04:11:11] <cradek> yeah a torch is next
[04:11:28] <eric_1> but the studs are easily replaceable,
[04:11:31] <cradek> torch before shotgun
[04:11:53] <eric_1> when I find myself reaching for the shotgun, I know it's time for a break
[04:12:27] <user_> Thats the dumbest thing I have seen ... in a long while. I needed that
[04:15:55] <tomp> torch aka gas wrench
[04:26:05] <toastydeath> i'd go rent a 1000 ft/lb impact wrench
[04:26:08] <toastydeath> before i tried a firearm
[04:26:11] <toastydeath> or a torch
[04:26:37] <user_> Bet he would have been fine had he retorqued the others and tried again
[04:26:41] <SWPadnos> yeah, I was thinking power tools could have been useful
[04:27:01] <eric_1> my dad had a stuck lugnut and I broke it off
[04:27:09] <eric_1> that was a surprise
[04:27:37] <user_> been there too ones I hate are spun spline in the hub
[04:28:00] <eric_1> that would be bad, sounds hard to fix
[04:29:01] <user_> Just more work as usual ...
[04:36:34] <user_> Any of you use any rexaloy ?
[04:39:30] <eric_1> sounds like steel?
[04:41:07] <user_> A tool steel someone recomended if I ever saw any
[04:45:22] <toastydeath> never even heard of it
[04:45:36] <toastydeath> is like some t16 analouge
[04:45:55] <ds2> T16? is that ASME ANSI or ?
[04:46:13] <toastydeath> i wasn't aware of more than one t16, so i don't know
[04:46:23] <SWPadnos> maybe it's rexalloy?
[04:46:27] <SWPadnos> http://www.alloycastproducts.com/docs/rexalloy33.htm
[04:46:54] <ds2> trying to figure out what are you refering to
[04:47:07] <toastydeath> a tool steel
[04:47:17] <ds2> Ohhhh okay
[04:47:18] <SWPadnos> like D1 or whatever
[04:47:20] <toastydeath> yes
[04:47:28] <SWPadnos> ie, completely unintelligible to anyone who doesn't already know ;)
[04:47:34] <ds2> <--- dealt with telcom and ANSI T16 is telcom related
[04:47:40] <toastydeath> i thought we were talking about tool steels!
[04:47:45] <toastydeath> and that people were hip to tool steels!
[04:47:53] <toastydeath> I APOLOGIZE FOR BEING OBTUSE
[04:48:11] <SWPadnos> no way man, we're more computer geeky than machining geeky here
[04:48:14] <user_> Thats likely it SWPadnos
[04:48:41] <SWPadnos> I figured it might me mistyped or something - that was the first web hit
[04:48:51] <ds2> I wish everything would have their name space...
[04:49:34] <toastydeath> "unaffected by repeated heating"
[04:49:47] <toastydeath> to what temperature?
[04:49:51] <ds2> heh
[04:49:56] <ds2> just before melting? ;)
[04:49:58] <SWPadnos> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBTKeRd6wec
[04:50:58] <ds2> tool steel related q... are those spring fingers use to retain electrical connectors formed before or after heating?
[04:51:15] <toastydeath> huh?
[04:51:25] <SWPadnos> they're generally stamped from flat sheets I think
[04:51:37] <toastydeath> picture
[04:51:52] <SWPadnos> so they get heated by the stamp, but I don't know that they're specifically heated for forming
[04:52:17] <ds2> Oh
[04:52:28] <SWPadnos> in fact, I think phosphor bronze (commonly used for battery terminals) gets soft and loses its springiness if you heat it
[04:52:33] <ds2> toastydeath: basically a thin sheet metal spring
[04:52:38] <toastydeath> oh
[04:52:43] <toastydeath> swpadnos is correct then
[04:52:50] <toastydeath> the heat is negligible
[04:53:00] <ds2> SWPadnos: oh... thought those things are done with spring steel like 1095
[04:53:07] <SWPadnos> I think springy metals are generally cold-formed
[04:53:17] <SWPadnos> oh, they may be
[04:53:21] <toastydeath> spring steels are annealed
[04:53:24] <toastydeath> after forming
[04:53:30] <toastydeath> otherwise they AREN'T springy
[04:53:33] <ds2> so it is work hardening that makes then springie?
[04:53:34] <SWPadnos> at my old company, we used phosphor bronzxe for our battery terminals because it conducts better
[04:53:55] <toastydeath> no, the "spring" in spring steel just refers to the high fatiuge resistance
[04:54:02] <SWPadnos> no, I think it's made as spring steel, then gets formed without heating, or you lose the springyness
[04:54:06] <ds2> SWPadnos: heh, that seems to be the low end stuff... the catalog calls out BeCu as the "better stuff"
[04:54:18] <SWPadnos> yeah, we used that too ;)
[04:54:31] <ds2> Hmmmm
[04:54:32] <toastydeath> springs are annealed, man
[04:54:44] <SWPadnos> the phosphor bronze may have been for some early prototypes we did, wher ewe had problems with - you guessed it - the contacts flattening out ;)
[04:54:47] <ds2> BeCu is scary :/
[04:55:04] <ds2> toastydeath: oh? thought it was specific temper...Hmmm
[04:55:24] <toastydeath> why would you want a hard spring?
[04:55:32] <toastydeath> that would decrease fatiuge life
[04:55:58] <toastydeath> if you need a higher spring constant, use thicker wire or less winds per inch
[04:56:21] <toastydeath> without annealing the spring tries to return to the original state
[04:56:27] <toastydeath> after some use
[04:56:44] <toastydeath> it gets rid of all the internal forming stresses.
[04:57:00] <ds2> toastydeath: I just want a spring finger to retain something
[04:57:08] <toastydeath> use shim stock
[04:57:24] <ds2> that's what started all this, was thinking of ripping up a feeler gage
[04:57:45] <toastydeath> do it
[04:57:46] <ds2> but donno how to form fingers on there. guessing maybe a vise and a "die"?
[04:58:10] <toastydeath> you might be able to find a small die block
[04:58:13] <toastydeath> for doing notching
[04:58:29] <ds2> and of course, how does one cut it... is it like music wire where it'll chip the cutter
[04:58:45] <toastydeath> if you're using thin feeler stock
[04:58:48] <ds2> I just want a 90deg bend actually, so I suppose any hardened steel block should work as a die
[04:58:55] <toastydeath> the die block is just a block of steel attached to some plastic
[04:59:00] <user_> could clamp b/t two pieces of aluminum bar and cut with endmill
[04:59:07] <toastydeath> the feeler goes between the plastic and steel, the punch goes in a hole
[04:59:10] <toastydeath> and you whack it with a hammer
[04:59:12] <toastydeath> bam, done
[04:59:34] <ds2> so that stuff isn't fully hardened?
[04:59:52] <toastydeath> some feeler gages might be
[05:00:13] <toastydeath> shim stock, man
[05:00:15] <toastydeath> cheapo
[05:02:26] <toastydeath> could you just use little tent-shaped things
[05:02:33] <toastydeath> instead of all fingered up and stuff
[05:02:45] <toastydeath> bend the thing down the middle
[05:04:33] <ds2> it is the shipping for a single shim stock that's the killer... $0.55 each but 3-4x of that for shipping
[05:04:47] <toastydeath> oh
[05:04:52] <toastydeath> they sell something called shim in a can?
[05:05:06] <ds2> not locally
[05:05:07] <toastydeath> it is pretty cool stuff
[05:05:10] <toastydeath> oh
[05:05:15] <toastydeath> i think we get ours via msc
[05:05:20] <toastydeath> super handy to have around i guess
[05:05:23] <toastydeath> if you are into that scene
[05:06:24] <ds2> decent sources of materials are evaporating faster and faster
[05:06:39] <toastydeath> =(
[05:06:42] <toastydeath> you don't have msc?
[05:07:03] <ds2> not local
[05:07:25] <ds2> LA might
[05:07:36] <toastydeath> well like, it's mail order?
[05:07:42] <ds2> yes
[05:07:47] <toastydeath> why would it need to be local
[05:07:57] <toastydeath> unless this is like a HOT JOB
[05:08:02] <ds2> shipping
[05:08:29] <ds2> easier to get feeler gages.. I just need a cable with odd connectors
[05:08:56] <toastydeath> oh.
[05:09:36] <eric_1> order from mcmaster before 8pm, it gets here the next day
[05:09:43] <eric_1> MSC is trying to catch up
[05:09:44] <SWPadnos> http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=1647840&PMT4NO=32725195
[05:10:09] <toastydeath> hey neat!
[05:10:13] <ds2> enco has them
[05:10:25] <eric_1> enco is msc
[05:10:28] <ds2> yep
[05:10:29] <SWPadnos> also available in brass
[05:10:46] <ds2> brass don't spring, right?
[05:10:58] <SWPadnos> don't knpow
[05:11:00] <SWPadnos> know
[05:11:11] <eric_1> every metal springs?
[05:11:31] <user_> spring or compress ?
[05:11:34] <ds2> hmm
[05:11:44] <eric_1> rubber doesn't compress
[05:12:04] <toastydeath> it doesn't?
[05:12:12] <user_> displace?
[05:12:16] <eric_1> no, pretty funny when people assume it does
[05:12:27] <toastydeath> what does it do
[05:12:32] <eric_1> it flows
[05:13:28] <toastydeath> uh?
[05:13:37] <eric_1> constrain it from flowing, and the constraints will be broken
[05:13:50] <toastydeath> that's true of just about anything
[05:14:06] <user_> non gas anyway
[05:14:09] <eric_1> but people don't assume that steel will compress
[05:14:20] <toastydeath> because there's only one critical axis
[05:14:21] <toastydeath> under discussion
[05:14:36] <toastydeath> and if you want to be super technical everything does compress
[05:14:41] <toastydeath> just not very far
[05:15:07] <SWPadnos> rubber also almost doesn't burn
[05:15:33] <SWPadnos> that's how they used to case the balls at the end of the telephone earpiece
[05:15:43] <SWPadnos> s/case/cast/
[05:16:01] <SWPadnos> err - form is probably a better word there
[05:16:20] <SWPadnos> they'd take a straight tube and drop a rubber ball in the end, then heat it up
[05:16:30] <toastydeath> thermite almost doesn't burn, either!
[05:16:31] <SWPadnos> the rubber would expand and form the ball shape at the end of the tube
[05:16:40] <user_> thermite woo hoo
[05:16:54] <SWPadnos> then when you cool it, the rubber shrinks down again, and you dump the ball out
[05:17:03] <eric_1> solid rocket boosters are made of rubber and thermite woohooo!
[05:17:12] <toastydeath> pew pew pew rockets
[05:17:13] <toastydeath> wait
[05:17:15] <toastydeath> that's lasers
[05:17:36] <user_> saw a bad rocket explosion on break.com the other day
[05:18:26] <toastydeath> snap
[05:19:39] <user_> I can't find it ... rained lit solid propellant ....
[05:22:17] <user_> Oh no wait I did bookmark it on the other machine ... ya gotta see this http://www.break.com/index/satblow.html
[05:28:21] <eric_1> is that kersplosion from vandenberg?
[05:28:39] <SWPadnos> I think they said Cape canaveral
[05:28:58] <user_> Said cape canaveral but I don't remember seeing that on the news ever
[05:29:09] <eric_1> the Air Force spent mucho money on vandenberg, and ruined it
[05:29:28] <eric_1> but I'm pretty sure that was a saturn
[05:29:55] <eric_1> basically dumped a batch of solid rocket propellant on the launch facility
[05:30:13] <SWPadnos> they said Delta 2
[05:30:17] <SWPadnos> or some such
[05:30:27] <eric_1> my memory is pretty worthless
[05:30:36] <SWPadnos> that or your hearing ;)
[05:30:47] <user_> It's not where I would have wanted to have been ;o) yea it did a hell of a jod doing that.. lucky no injury
[05:30:48] <eric_1> too many F-16's with no earplugs
[05:31:01] <eric_1> hearing down 10 db in right ear
[05:31:42] <SWPadnos> yep, Delta 2 at Cape Canaveral
[05:33:03] <user_> Wonder how they would overlook a 12' crack?
[05:33:16] <SWPadnos> 17
[05:33:21] <SWPadnos> :)
[05:33:33] <user_> on your toes as usual ;o)
[05:33:41] <SWPadnos> wonder how they'd find it after the rocket exploded
[05:33:47] <user_> even better
[05:34:33] <SWPadnos> you know, from among all the other 17-foot cracks
[05:35:20] <eric_1> you can tell from the crack surface
[05:35:36] <SWPadnos> if you can find the crack surface ...
[05:35:46] <eric_1> It's amazing what they can do
[05:35:52] <SWPadnos> true
[05:36:10] <eric_1> the 747 that blew up leaving new york was put back together
[05:36:20] <eric_1> most of the pieces were in the water
[05:36:25] <SWPadnos> there was a PBS show about some SwissAir flight that went down near Nova Scotia maybe, and they recovered something like 98 or 99% of the plane from the ocean floor
[05:36:27] <SWPadnos> yep
[05:37:14] <eric_1> they determined that swissair flight went down due to the in-flight movie
[05:37:31] <eric_1> that woulda pissed me off, never watched one
[05:37:33] <SWPadnos> what, Muppet Movie 2 or something?
[05:37:50] <eric_1> good guess
[05:37:50] <toastydeath> how did the damn in-flight movie cause a plane to go down
[05:37:57] <eric_1> fire
[05:38:06] <toastydeath> lol epic
[05:38:12] <SWPadnos> oh, right. it may have been caused by the entertainment system
[05:38:21] <SWPadnos> I thought it was a ventilation fan though
[05:39:01] <SWPadnos> like "gee it's getting hot in here, can you turn on the fan", and it's actually the fan that's on fire
[05:39:34] <eric_1> heat isn't the problem at altitude
[05:41:27] <SWPadnos> sure, but burning parts of the plane, melting hydraulic hoses, and suffocating people/things is a problem
[05:41:45] <eric_1> that's generally the way people look at it
[05:41:54] <eric_1> I personally see it as an opportunity
[05:42:26] <SWPadnos> do you work for Airbus or Boeing? :)
[05:42:31] <eric_1> kidding
[05:42:55] <eric_1> my boss tried to get me to work on the wiring problem
[05:44:20] <SWPadnos> damn. this new laptop does have some bitchin speakers
[05:44:39] <SWPadnos> the "ubuntu sound" just about knocked me out of the chair
[05:45:15] <user_> Yeah my intro sound is WAY louder than sound ajusted in gnome
[05:46:02] <SWPadnos> it's probably at BIOS default level
[05:46:19] <SWPadnos> especially if you have a laptop with function keys for turning it up/down
[05:46:52] <user_> It's better than hearing windows boot
[05:46:57] <SWPadnos> yes
[05:47:20] <SWPadnos> a friend of mine used to have a Darth Vader quote as his startup sound: "Now I am the master"
[05:47:41] <eric_1> password: god
[05:48:31] <user_> had a buddy with <gama omega delta> as a front tag in the 80's still has a god complex
[05:50:28] <SWPadnos> Hmmm. how about alpha omega delta - which would just be infinity
[13:58:22] <buckie555> since I've recently upgraded from 2.1.7 to 2.2.1 I no longer get any helpful debug messges warning about incorrect hal configuration, any ideas how I can re-enable the line that tells me where the problem might be?
[13:59:50] <jepler> halcmd should report all the errors it did in version 2.1.x. However, the format for error messages has changed.
[13:59:53] <jepler> emc2.1: HAL:3: ERROR: pin 'q' not found
[13:59:58] <jepler> emc2.2: bad.hal:2: pin 'q' not found
[14:00:11] <jepler> hm, and I see that the error report is one line off :(
[14:00:26] <buckie555> I don't see any error messages at all, I used to but now none are displayed
[14:00:28] <jepler> anyway, the format of the error is filename:linenumber: message
[14:01:40] <buckie555> I dont see any lines with the literal HAL in it
[14:02:23] <jepler> right, in 2.1 the error messages started "HAL:". Now they start with the filename where the error occured -- 'bad.hal' in my example.
[14:02:27] <buckie555> I see pyVCP creating widgets from ... done followed by shutting down and cleaning up EMC2...
[14:03:10] <buckie555> no I don't see that either
[14:03:47] <alex_joni> buckie555: do you run emc from a terminal?
[14:03:52] <buckie555> I get the starting... entries, then the pyVCP entry then shutting down and killing task but nothing that points to where the error is
[14:04:00] <jepler> it looks like they are also printed on stderr (emc 2.2) instead of stdout (emc 2.1) .. so if you are looking at the "EMC2 Errors" window after starting emc from icon or menu, I think that means the error is moved from the "Print file information" section to the "Debug file information" section.
[14:04:08] <buckie555> no I'm running axis
[14:05:04] <buckie555> ah got it
[14:05:26] <buckie555> thanks for that - you're right it was at the bottom of the window under Debug file information
[14:06:12] <buckie555> thank goodness for that, I've been fearful of making too many changes at once at the risk of not being able to track down where the problem lies
[14:06:35] <alex_joni> buckie555: congrats on a very good debugging skill :)
[14:06:50] <alex_joni> most people start by changing a lot of things, and then nothing works anymore :D
[14:08:39] <buckie555> yes there's nothing worse than gradually backing out change after change before finally realising the 'innocuous' culprit!
[14:10:07] <buckie555> well since upgrading to 2.2.1 ladder seems to be working as expected.
[14:10:34] <buckie555> I can't believe I spent days trying to implement something in hal that has taken me 2 hours in ladder!
[14:11:03] <buckie555> not to mention the fact that it's pretty too!
[14:12:46] <alex_joni> buckie555: cool
[14:12:56] <alex_joni> so you got along to like ladder :)
[14:13:20] <alex_joni> maybe you can spare another 1-2 hours to document it
[14:14:37] <buckie555> Once the VMC's making chips again I'd be very happy to. I was thinking of sharing the config files with a walkthrough as well if anyone's interested
[14:14:49] <alex_joni> sounds great
[14:16:46] <buckie555> the feature in ladder where it indicates whether a hal pin has been bound to an input/output is excellent - makes debugging much easier
[15:10:20] <jlmjvm> SWPadnos:u up yet,i have a capacitor question
[17:15:27] <anonimasu> hm
[17:44:31] <alSMT> ealtime system did not load
[17:44:31] <alSMT> Shutting down and cleaning up EMC2...
[17:44:31] <alSMT> ERROR: Module probe_parport is in use
[17:44:31] <alSMT> <commandline>:0: exit value: 1
[17:44:31] <alSMT> <commandline>:0: rmmod failed, returned -1
[17:44:32] <alSMT> <commandline>:0: unloadrt failed
[17:44:34] <alSMT> ERROR: Module hal_lib is in use by probe_parport
[17:44:36] <alSMT> ERROR: Module rtapi is in use by probe_parport,hal_lib
[17:44:38] <alSMT> ERROR: Module rtai_math does not exist in /proc/modules
[17:44:40] <alSMT> ERROR: Module rtai_sem is in use by rtapi
[17:44:42] <alSMT> ERROR: Module rtai_shm is in use by rtapi
[17:44:44] <alSMT> ERROR: Module rtai_fifos is in use by rtapi
[17:44:46] <alSMT> ERROR: Module rtai_sched is in use by rtapi,rtai_sem,rtai_shm,rtai_fifos
[17:44:48] <alSMT> ERROR: Module rtai_hal is in use by rtapi,rtai_sem,rtai_shm,rtai_fifos,rtai_sched
[17:44:51] <toastydeath> jeebas
[17:44:52] <alSMT> Cleanup done
[17:44:55] <alSMT> should I just reboot?
[17:46:24] <toastydeath> i have no idea
[17:46:59] <alSMT> tried unloadrt probe_parport
[17:47:21] <toastydeath> i've never used emc, i have no idea what you are talking about
[17:47:42] <alSMT> rodger
[17:47:44] <cradek> alSMT: sure, reboot, and let us know if there's a consistent problem
[17:47:51] <alSMT> ok
[18:00:09] <Hugomatic> There's a feature I'd like to see on Axis, and I think I might be able to hack it myself. Where do I go from here?
[18:00:48] <Hugomatic> Is there a feature/roadmap list somewhere?
[18:01:12] <jepler> first, get to the point where you can recompile emc2 and axis from source. Then, modify the source to do what you want. Third, optionally submit your work in "patch" format for possible inclusion in a future version.
[18:01:16] <jepler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_5_10_and_6_06_from_source
[18:01:54] <jepler> there's not really a roadmap -- we recently released version 2.2 and started working on new features for version 2.3 which will be out somewhere from 6 months to a year from now.
[18:04:13] <jepler> lunchtime here, bbl
[18:12:06] <alSMT> not sure how got to that point but reboot and retried I was playing with a config to get rigid taping and g33.1 without a physical encoder connected I got spindle not turning this time I got out by estop and abort
[20:30:33] <alSMT> g33.1 rigid taping ?g code like this/ m3 s200/ g33.1 x0y0z-.1 k.05 / m5 p2 /m4 s200 /g33.1 x0y0z0 k.05/would this be usable code?
[20:32:40] <alSMT> my machine needs to dwell before reversal of the spindle.
[20:35:32] <jepler> alSMT: g33.1 reverses the spindle during its operation
[20:35:48] <jepler> so that code won't do what you want
[20:36:16] <alSMT> the doc mentions the spindle must be turning before g33.1 is inisheated
[20:37:16] <alSMT> I haven't got an encoder yet just wondering if I can make it come together
[20:37:52] <alSMT> g33.1 isn't a canned cycle correct
[20:38:31] <jepler> internally, g33.1 z-1 k.05 is a bit like this: g33 z-1 k.05 / m4 / g33 z0 k.05
[20:39:05] <jepler> except that it keeps tracking the spindle past z-1 as the spindle slows, stops, and then begins turning in the other direction
[20:39:24] <jepler> (so if your spindle stops quickly it might go down to z-1.05; if it stops slowly, it may go deeper)
[20:40:17] <jepler> you may have to add some logic (e.g., classicladder) to enforce this pause between turning forward and reverse
[20:40:40] <alSMT> that were I have a problem if I rev spindle without m5 p2 my interlock on my magnetic starter wont let it happen it has a magnet brake though and stops rapily
[20:41:10] <jepler> g33.1 won't care if the spindle spends .1 second, 1 second, or 100 seconds at a dead stop
[20:41:56] <jepler> I'm certain that with classicladder you can express
[20:42:14] <jepler> "don't start turning clockwise until at least N seconds after the spindle was turning counterclockwise" in ladder logic
[20:42:52] <jepler> but I'm not experienced enough with it to do that myself
[20:43:06] <alSMT> what happens is the magnetic brake is energized by the motor legs when the starter drops the magnetic brake colapes
[20:45:17] <alSMT> how about g33 same behaiver
[20:47:23] <jepler> g33 doesn't start or stop the spindle
[20:48:49] <alSMT> so maybe I could use this but would the feed keep up coming out of the hole?
[20:49:48] <cradek> for rigid tapping to work, your machine must handle s300 m3 / m4
[20:49:48] <jepler> if you try to do a rigid tapping cycle with m3 / g33 / m5 p2 / m4 / g33 you will only ruin your tap
[20:50:00] <alSMT> I could use a floating tap holder
[20:50:04] <jepler> it's critical for g33.1 that it continue tracking the spindle after the reverse has been commanded
[20:50:36] <jepler> g33 can't do that
[20:52:13] <jepler> g33.1 should work fine with a spindle that must pause before reversing, but you'll have to use something like classicladder to actually make the pause happen
[20:52:54] <alSMT> how about using the encoder for accurate spindle speed verify using pyvcp for a tach
[20:53:10] <jepler> (which you'll want to do anyway, because you don't want gcode that says m3 / m5 / g1z-1 to crash the non-turning tool into the work because the spindle didn't start moving again at the m5..)
[20:53:23] <jepler> yes that's been done
[20:53:47] <jepler> the sim/lathe configuration shows the speed of the simulated spindle, you can look at that for hints
[20:54:21] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal_vcp.html
[20:55:02] <alSMT> i'm looking at nist lathe right now but the dwell is a stumbleling block
[20:56:27] <alSMT> jepler: thanks
[20:56:48] <jepler> When you drive motion.feed-hold TRUE, movement will stop. You can use this input to make emc wait while the logic for the spindle reverse is running
[20:57:09] <alSMT> hmm
[20:57:54] <alSMT> i also use feed hold hardware switch
[20:58:20] <jepler> in that case, you would use an 'or2' block or a ladder logic rung to let either one of them set motion.feed-hold TRUE
[20:59:11] <alSMT> is block going to removed?
[21:00:35] <jepler> you should use 'loadrt or2 count=(number)' instead of 'loadrt blocks or2=(number)"
[21:00:49] <alSMT> ok
[21:04:20] <jepler> but if you use ladder logic for the timing you'll want to use it to create the final signal for motion.feed-hold
[21:05:03] <alSMT> i dont see how feed hold will help though the spindle would still run and seems like the g33 has to overide this funtion
[21:05:25] <jepler> you'll take emc's motion.spindle-forward and hook that as an input to classicladder.
[21:05:44] <jepler> classicladder will produce an output, and you'll hook that to the physical output that makes the spindle turn forward
[21:05:50] <jepler> likewise for spindle-reverse
[21:06:30] <jepler> inside classicladder, it will track whether the spindle was turning forward in the recent past. If so, it will inhibit the spindle-reverse output from turning on until enough time has passed
[21:07:15] <alSMT> through a timer?
[21:07:31] <jepler> right
[21:07:53] <alSMT> back to school than
[21:09:04] <alSMT> classic ladder lessons
[21:09:53] <jepler> well I'm not an expert at that .. I know something about what is possible, but not much about how to do it
[21:11:21] <alSMT> is it cold in Nebraska? thanks again
[21:11:57] <jepler> no, the weather's nice today
[21:12:23] <alSMT> not to bad here in Syracuse either
[21:14:20] <jepler> bbkl
[21:14:22] <jepler> bbl
[21:22:01] <alSMT> ULAPI: WARNING: module 'HAL_classicladder' failed to delete shmem 03
[21:22:01] <alSMT> Shutting down and cleaning up EMC2...
[21:22:01] <alSMT> ULAPI: WARNING: module 'HAL_classicladder' failed to delete shmem 03
[21:22:01] <alSMT> Cleanup done
[21:22:19] <alSMT> is this a problem?
[21:23:26] <jepler> no, I think that's just a warning some programmer should clean up
[21:23:39] <alSMT> oook
[21:27:50] <buckie555> I'm implementing an ATC with a carousel style toolchanger. It requires me to move to two known positions in the z axis during the toolchange operation. I've currently muxed in these positions after axis.2.motor-pos-cmd and before pid.2.command. This appears to work but it has the result that I get a joint following error unless I back off my following error param. Am I on the right track with this or is there a cleaner way to move the a
[21:28:12] <cradek> buckie555: no, you should use the tool change position in the ini file
[21:28:44] <cradek> you can't really move the axes in HAL/ladder.
[21:28:59] <buckie555> no can do as during the tool chanhe operation I need to move to one position and then retract higher to another z position
[21:30:05] <cradek> hmm, that's problematic.
[21:30:08] <buckie555> the first position lines me up with the carousel, the higher position allows me to retract so the acrousel can rotate to present another tool
[21:30:09] <jepler> in theory, you can use the 'offset' component to add something to the commanded position, and then subtract it out of the feedback position
[21:31:50] <buckie555> what I've currently got sets the correct pid position after I'm done with the toolchange. Other than the obvious following error can you foresee any other pitfalls?
[21:34:35] <jepler> if you're commanding a "step" in position (instant change from say z=-1 to z=0) a PID that is tuned for trapezoidal velocity profiles will overshoot and ring much more. You can use limit3 to get a trajectory that has a trapezoidal velocity profile
[21:34:42] <jepler> I haven't done this myself, though, so YMMV
[21:37:30] <buckie555> I guess that's an option. I think my PID loop is quite well tuned. My encoder on that axis is 1 micron resolution so even with a 30 count overshoot it would only be 30 microns
[21:37:51] <buckie555> well within the mechanical compliance of the geneva wheel
[21:39:34] <buckie555> Although I'm testing all this on a simulated setup as best I can it's rapidly dawning on me that there are some issues which are going to be very much suck and see on the machine setup
[21:40:24] <jepler> you can fix the feedback / folllowing error problem by simply holding the feedback position to emc while you're moving off of the tool change position
[21:40:29] <buckie555> I'm becoming paranoid about crashing into my tool carousel during testing
[21:40:48] <jepler> yeah I don't blame you for that!
[21:41:57] <buckie555> Yes that would fix it but have the unfortunate side effect of not displaying the correct z position on the gui. I'm not sure which is worse
[21:43:12] <buckie555> it's almost like i want to be able to tell it to temporarily ignore the f error check
[21:43:14] <jepler> you think it's important to see the value once the machine is running properly, or are you simply concerned about it while testing? In that case, you could just use a virtual control panel to display the actual number ..
[21:43:51] <toastydeath> i just got some fairly bad chatter on a 1" endmill at 4000 rpm
[21:43:52] <toastydeath> 20 ipm
[21:44:02] <toastydeath> boy was that loud
[21:44:34] <anonimasu> hm, why cant we implement a sane way to do toolchangin without hacking around it=
[21:45:00] <toastydeath> ?
[21:45:01] <buckie555> Primarily for testing yes - but you're right about outputting to the panel.I think when live I would want the following error check although I suppose I could lose it and just monitor the max error from time to time
[21:45:58] <cradek> anonimasu: we?
[21:46:40] <buckie555> another thought - is there a way from HAL to trigger a message to be displayed to the operator on the axis gui
[21:47:25] <buckie555> is it possible to programatically write to a label or text element?
[21:47:26] <jepler> not at present; you could write a userspace component that waits for its input to be asserted TRUE and then displays a predefined message
[21:48:35] <buckie555> If I were to do that would it just be displayed as a modal dialog?
[21:48:45] <jepler> a vcp element which consults its input pin value and then displays a message from a table is also possible but hasn't been done
[21:49:26] <anonimasu> cradek: anyone..
[21:49:38] <buckie555> ah that sounds quite doable
[21:50:28] <anonimasu> cradek: actually I wish the plc could output motion..
[21:50:45] <buckie555> anonimasu - I guess it's one of those things that you don't anticipate until you try a toolchanger retrofit
[21:51:38] <buckie555> Plus there are different configurations out there. My sabres requirements for example are very different to that of the mazak example
[21:51:41] <anonimasu> buckie555: it's got to do with the command path(where motion comes from)
[21:51:52] <buckie555> sure
[21:54:19] <anonimasu> buckie555: and that's why you have to disconnect the pid loop..
[21:54:26] <anonimasu> as far as I understand it..
[21:54:31] <anonimasu> or well, fake it..
[21:55:42] <buckie555> yes - ideally I would be able to apply a temporary offset to the motion module so that at least it's aware of what's happening
[21:56:18] <anonimasu> I think the easiest way is a macro..
[21:56:26] <buckie555> so that after it's already determined what the position should be it applies any configured offset
[21:57:30] <buckie555> What I've got at the moment works, I just wanted to check that there wasn't a more elegant approach but in this case it seems not
[21:57:34] <anonimasu> like "MXXX(disable soft limits) / g0 z500 / g0 x500y500 / MXXX(change tool) / g0 x-50y20 / g0 z-124
[21:58:06] <anonimasu> I wonder how that would work.
[21:58:06] <anonimasu> .
[21:58:35] <anonimasu> to implement as a userspace macro..(Given that you can set the current position as a parameter
[21:58:42] <buckie555> I've taken the approach to do all my toolchange logic outside of the gcode so that in my programs I just need the M6Tx and thats it
[21:59:03] <buckie555> means I'm lesss likely to forget something which would invariably end in a crash
[21:59:04] <anonimasu> Yes, but I were figuring if M6Tx would be a program..
[21:59:05] <anonimasu> macro..
[21:59:16] <anonimasu> not user modifiable..
[21:59:25] <buckie555> Oh I see - sorry
[21:59:28] <anonimasu> well call a macro for the motion
[21:59:38] <anonimasu> as that makes motion come from interp..(controlled motion and not hack-ish)
[22:00:19] <anonimasu> that seems more sane imo
[22:00:30] <anonimasu> toastydeath: awake?
[22:00:38] <buckie555> that's true but during the toolchange you've gor motin requirements combined with lots of HAL/ladder level logic. From my perspective I would prefer if it were all in one place
[22:01:07] <anonimasu> ofcourse..
[22:01:16] <anonimasu> but I perfer controlled motion over not controlled motion..
[22:01:21] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: How hard was it to customize ubuntu for emc's distro?
[22:01:32] <buckie555> oh of course
[22:01:55] <anonimasu> I mean the plc dosent need to know that much it gets a tool change trigger..
[22:01:57] <anonimasu> and a tool number..
[22:02:12] <toastydeath> anonimasu: hai
[22:02:13] <anonimasu> and it steps to the tool loads it resumes the program(do motion)
[22:02:18] <anonimasu> ^_^
[22:02:27] <anonimasu> then fires off another trigger to the plc once that is done..
[22:02:27] <buckie555> I think what I've done should be safe. Before I set iocontrol.0.tool-changed to true I ensure that my position offset has been reset
[22:02:39] <anonimasu> I'm not doing toolchanging yet..
[22:02:50] <anonimasu> I've got <----------------> that many things to do first
[22:02:51] <anonimasu> :)
[22:03:13] <buckie555> yes sounds simple doesn't it!
[22:03:24] <anonimasu> hehe..
[22:03:31] <anonimasu> I wish I had a changer so I could just do the plc logic.
[22:03:43] <anonimasu> I need to dream one up...
[22:04:25] <toastydeath> fire toolchange torpedoes
[22:04:37] <toastydeath> pew pew pew
[22:04:42] <anonimasu> toastydeath: I have a bearing question for you
[22:04:45] <toastydeath> hai.
[22:04:54] <buckie555> I'm really glad I tackled this project though - it's forced me to pick up a lot re the HAL and has also forced me to learn ladder which I love it's beautiful simplicity
[22:05:07] <anonimasu> that's what I hate about it :p
[22:05:29] <toastydeath> what about bearins
[22:05:32] <toastydeath> 's
[22:05:40] <toastydeath> whatever the slang form of "bearings" would be
[22:05:48] <anonimasu> bearing ;)
[22:06:02] <anonimasu> as on a seachart
[22:06:06] <toastydeath> oh
[22:06:14] <buckie555> I know where you're coming from - sometimes I think why can't it just work but then I'd rather have a system like it is that is infinitely configurable, even if it does require a little lateral thinking at times
[22:06:16] <toastydeath> this sounds like something i won't know
[22:06:47] <anonimasu> I program plc's for a living :P that's why I dont like ladder
[22:06:58] <anonimasu> most of the things I need to do is hard/impossible to do sanely with ladder..
[22:07:22] <anonimasu> toastydeath: Im pondering my bearing design for my mill
[22:07:23] <buckie555> oh I see. I write C++ for a living - that's why I was impressed with it's simplicity
[22:07:39] <toastydeath> oh
[22:07:48] <anonimasu> here's the configuration Im thinking of
[22:07:50] <toastydeath> i thought you were about to ask me something about sailinga and bearing
[22:07:59] <anonimasu> -A|RR----
[22:08:02] <anonimasu> ---- is screw
[22:08:04] <buckie555> I started off trying to implement a state machine in HAL - big no, no - invalid pin linking hell
[22:08:18] <anonimasu> :P
[22:08:23] <anonimasu> A is a axial bearing..
[22:08:26] <anonimasu> R is a radial bearing..
[22:08:37] <anonimasu> | is a edge that the screw will preload against..
[22:08:49] <anonimasu> how does that bearing configuration sound?
[22:09:04] <toastydeath> and all this accomplishes is what
[22:09:24] <anonimasu> taking up thrust.. of the leadscrew.
[22:09:29] <anonimasu> moving the table..
[22:09:47] <anonimasu> perferably backslash free..
[22:10:06] <toastydeath> i don't see why you've got axial and radial bearings
[22:10:14] <toastydeath> for a pair of ballnuts
[22:10:19] <anonimasu> eh..
[22:10:23] <anonimasu> this is at the end of the screw..
[22:10:29] <toastydeath> oh
[22:10:47] <buckie555> I would have thought all you need is back to back angular at one end of the screw and a floating radial at the other end
[22:11:07] <buckie555> or even back to back radial if the machine is light duty
[22:11:32] <anonimasu> I want a thrust bearing because they handle a pretty high preload..
[22:11:42] <toastydeath> why are you preloading the screw itself
[22:11:44] <toastydeath> and not the ballnut
[22:11:55] <toastydeath> i'm missing something here
[22:11:55] <anonimasu> this is the screw to table mounting..
[22:12:18] <anonimasu> A|RR-----N---
[22:12:26] <toastydeath> sure
[22:12:36] <anonimasu> does that click?
[22:12:38] <toastydeath> yeah
[22:13:03] <buckie555> what structure is the machine frame? aluminium? steel? mdf? what are you planning on machining with it?
[22:13:06] <toastydeath> i mean from a technical accruacy standpoint it doesn't matter so much
[22:13:13] <anonimasu> steel..
[22:13:17] <anonimasu> $random stuff..
[22:13:35] <anonimasu> toastydeath: I'm mosly pondering if anything is wrong with it..
[22:13:40] <toastydeath> oh
[22:13:42] <toastydeath> no, not at all
[22:13:45] <toastydeath> that's perfectly valid.
[22:13:46] <anonimasu> I think a better idea is to do it like
[22:13:48] <toastydeath> as long as you do it at both ends.
[22:13:49] <anonimasu> RAR
[22:14:04] <anonimasu> and preloadthe axial bearing..
[22:14:21] <anonimasu> and let the radial one take up the motor torque..
[22:14:28] <anonimasu> though ARR is much easier to manufacture..
[22:14:39] <anonimasu> and the load is negligable pretty much.
[22:14:52] <anonimasu> (should BE) we are talking about a short distance..
[22:15:09] <anonimasu> I think I'm going to have a floating radial at the other end
[22:15:13] <toastydeath> it's not a very important thing until you've got ridiculously accurate screws
[22:15:33] <anonimasu> I'll be ordering thoose someday :p
[22:15:44] <anonimasu> actually backslash free..
[22:15:46] <toastydeath> i'm talking like, 12,000 dollar screws
[22:15:51] <toastydeath> 12k to 50k screws
[22:15:51] <anonimasu> buah..
[22:15:59] <anonimasu> hehe
[22:16:09] <anonimasu> I wonder how much the ones used on normal cnc's cost..
[22:16:13] <toastydeath> couple thousand
[22:16:23] <toastydeath> for like a four foot screw
[22:16:28] <anonimasu> ah.. not bad..
[22:16:37] <toastydeath> they're not that accurate
[22:16:44] <toastydeath> relatively speaking, that is
[22:16:50] <anonimasu> I dont get how they handle backslash..
[22:16:54] <anonimasu> that well..
[22:16:57] <toastydeath> in ballnuts?
[22:17:06] <toastydeath> or in reference grade leadscrews
[22:17:08] <anonimasu> or are we talking about different stuff..
[22:17:13] <anonimasu> accuracy/backslash..
[22:17:39] <toastydeath> in ballscrews the most "accurate" way to do it is two ballnuts
[22:17:43] <toastydeath> preloaded with a hard spacer
[22:17:45] <toastydeath> against one another
[22:18:01] <anonimasu> "hard"?
[22:18:06] <toastydeath> not a spring
[22:18:09] <toastydeath> like, a stack of washers.
[22:18:14] <anonimasu> ah ok..
[22:18:27] <toastydeath> ballscrews are inherently limited in accuracy
[22:18:45] <anonimasu> * anonimasu hides from toast
[22:18:47] <toastydeath> one step up is a leadscrew, but that has a whole seperate thing of problem
[22:18:55] <toastydeath> and is generally useless for most machine tools
[22:19:02] <anonimasu> im talking about 0.01mm at most..
[22:19:19] <toastydeath> yeah, you shouldn't worry too much about how your bearings are configured
[22:19:21] <buckie555> or mount the flanges of the two nuts onto opposing brackets and preload them against each other with a variable spacer - i.e studding and nuts. For a simply solution it works surpisingly well
[22:19:42] <toastydeath> how those bearing blocks mount to the frame however
[22:19:47] <toastydeath> that can seriously affect accuracy of the machine
[22:19:57] <anonimasu> I use the old machine's leadscrew mounts..
[22:19:57] <anonimasu> :)
[22:20:02] <toastydeath> then you're set
[22:20:08] <anonimasu> I turn a round bar..
[22:20:13] <anonimasu> and stuff bearings into it ;)
[22:20:19] <toastydeath> exactly
[22:20:24] <anonimasu> turn(I'll grind the new one)
[22:20:33] <anonimasu> with my new grinder..
[22:20:51] <toastydeath> nice
[22:20:52] <anonimasu> if I can get the tools to mount to it :)
[22:20:57] <toastydeath> i recall moore
[22:21:03] <anonimasu> moore?
[22:21:05] <toastydeath> they always put the radial bearing closest as they could
[22:21:08] <toastydeath> to the ballnut
[22:21:12] <toastydeath> Moore tool
[22:21:14] <anonimasu> ah
[22:21:19] <toastydeath> so they would do it
[22:21:28] <anonimasu> but that's if they spin the nut right?
[22:21:36] <toastydeath> motor--R----A|---------n---------|r
[22:21:39] <toastydeath> nope
[22:21:51] <anonimasu> yep that sounds sane
[22:21:53] <toastydeath> those two horizontal lines represent where the pillow blocks start and stop
[22:22:04] <anonimasu> yeah..
[22:22:10] <anonimasu> that was the other configuration I were pondering
[22:22:10] <toastydeath> but they had 12k screws
[22:22:15] <toastydeath> and all sorts of insane other nonsense
[22:22:21] <anonimasu> makes sense to take up the torque from the motor..
[22:22:41] <anonimasu> but that's like if you use a pulley..
[22:22:49] <anonimasu> if you have direct drive it shouldnt matter..
[22:22:54] <toastydeath> nah, these are direct drive
[22:23:08] <toastydeath> the axial bearing was also like 4-5" long
[22:23:11] <toastydeath> plain journal
[22:23:18] <toastydeath> er
[22:23:21] <toastydeath> no
[22:23:23] <toastydeath> radial
[22:23:27] <toastydeath> the axial wasn't anything special
[22:23:33] <toastydeath> the radial bearings were huge
[22:23:48] <toastydeath> but if you grind your stuff and keep it sane, you'll do great
[22:23:48] <anonimasu> oh.. im messing axial/radial up..
[22:24:06] <anonimasu> I mean radial axial axial
[22:24:07] <anonimasu> :p
[22:24:19] <anonimasu> >_<
[22:24:19] <toastydeath> never seen two axial bearings
[22:24:25] <toastydeath> in a high precision machine, anyway
[22:24:43] <anonimasu> one probably will do.. and a axial one..
[22:25:05] <anonimasu> though I still thing ARA is a sane configuration
[22:25:10] <toastydeath> nah
[22:25:20] <toastydeath> you start to get into issues with two axial bearings
[22:25:22] <toastydeath> they fight one another
[22:25:27] <toastydeath> as the loads change
[22:25:45] <anonimasu> I used tapered roller oned in a preload configuration before
[22:26:12] <anonimasu> but but that's not a very noce solution as it requires lots of preload..
[22:26:20] <toastydeath> well preload isn't a bad thing
[22:26:41] <toastydeath> if your screws see more force than they're preloaded to, you are probably damaging them
[22:26:42] <anonimasu> well, it makes the screw harder to turn..
[22:26:50] <toastydeath> yeah, but it keeps them safe and accurate
[22:27:03] <anonimasu> that's why I want a radial one.. on the end..
[22:27:27] <toastydeath> really you can pretty much do as you please
[22:27:27] <anonimasu> and ofcourse because it's easier to make..
[22:27:29] <toastydeath> to mount the screw
[22:27:34] <toastydeath> in terms of bearings
[22:27:40] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:27:50] <toastydeath> the alignment of the blocks is the primary factor
[22:27:57] <toastydeath> and also decoupling the ballnut from the table
[22:28:08] <toastydeath> has another big accuracy advantage
[22:28:13] <anonimasu> decoupling?
[22:28:18] <toastydeath> yeah
[22:28:22] <anonimasu> like having it floating?
[22:28:25] <toastydeath> yes
[22:28:29] <anonimasu> hm.. I cant do taht :9
[22:28:30] <anonimasu> that
[22:28:31] <toastydeath> either in a flexture or some other mechanism
[22:28:34] <anonimasu> small machine :)
[22:28:37] <toastydeath> they make specific flextures to do it
[22:28:54] <toastydeath> not a lot of movement but you're talking about like, .05mm tops
[22:29:03] <toastydeath> and that can introduce huge stresses into the machine
[22:29:07] <toastydeath> if it's rigidly mounted
[22:29:23] <toastydeath> (even in a tiny machine)
[22:29:33] <anonimasu> it's perfectly centered to the screw mounts..
[22:29:38] <toastydeath> it ain't
[22:29:48] <toastydeath> very small errors in alignment cause large stresses
[22:30:09] <anonimasu> I know..
[22:30:17] <toastydeath> but like you said, limited space
[22:30:36] <anonimasu> I'm going to keep it in mind..
[22:30:39] <anonimasu> and look at it..
[22:31:03] <anonimasu> preload(with two nuts is insanely hard btw)
[22:31:15] <toastydeath> never said it wasn't hard!
[22:32:14] <toastydeath> we've got a lathe at work with 3" diameter ballscrews
[22:32:19] <anonimasu> heh still I have a nice machine once I get it finished..
[22:32:25] <toastydeath> the whole screw floats
[22:32:26] <toastydeath> at both ends
[22:32:32] <toastydeath> in flextures
[22:32:42] <anonimasu> hm
[22:32:43] <anonimasu> ok
[22:32:48] <toastydeath> i'm not quite sure how it works
[22:32:52] <anonimasu> how do you drive them?
[22:32:59] <anonimasu> if the whole thing flexes..
[22:33:00] <toastydeath> they're rotationally stiff
[22:33:05] <anonimasu> ah ok
[22:33:12] <toastydeath> and compression
[22:33:15] <toastydeath> all other directions have give
[22:33:26] <toastydeath> and there's like one or two more constraints on the other end
[22:33:31] <toastydeath> to keep it in place
[22:33:39] <toastydeath> but you can push it and it moves around
[22:33:42] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:34:09] <anonimasu> interesting stuff
[22:34:23] <anonimasu> *makes a mental note*
[22:35:05] <toastydeath> lol
[22:35:21] <toastydeath> that lathe also has the weirdest spindle we've ever seen
[22:35:25] <anonimasu> oh yeah, im hoping to grind myself a better spindle...
[22:35:30] <toastydeath> ooh.
[22:35:31] <anonimasu> :p
[22:35:35] <anonimasu> with the grinder..
[22:35:37] <toastydeath> good luck =)
[22:35:42] <toastydeath> oh, ball bearing spindle
[22:35:44] <toastydeath> probably
[22:35:44] <toastydeath> right?
[22:35:46] <anonimasu> yeah..
[22:35:49] <toastydeath> oh, whew
[22:35:54] <anonimasu> whew?
[22:36:18] <toastydeath> i thought you were going to make a fluid film bearing or a plain bearing
[22:36:29] <toastydeath> because that's who i'm used to talking to
[22:36:33] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: not that hard
[22:36:33] <toastydeath> bigger spaceheads than i am
[22:36:42] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: we tried to keep changed to a minimum
[22:36:53] <anonimasu> well, _if_ I could get material in limited qty's for a sane cost..
[22:37:08] <toastydeath> you can make either out of like, aluminum
[22:37:30] <anonimasu> yeah, but I'd rather not bother.. :P
[22:37:33] <toastydeath> yeah
[22:37:48] <anonimasu> it's not like I have one of thoose lathes you are talking about to make them at
[22:38:01] <toastydeath> most folks like, lap them
[22:38:02] <toastydeath> or grind them
[22:38:13] <toastydeath> if you have an ID/OD grinder and a CNC mill
[22:38:17] <toastydeath> you can make bearings
[22:38:19] <anonimasu> :)
[22:38:21] <toastydeath> (with enough knowhow)
[22:38:29] <anonimasu> you need a accurate cnc mill ;)
[22:38:33] <toastydeath> nope
[22:38:37] <toastydeath> the mill is just to put the pockets in
[22:38:43] <anonimasu> oh.. you thought about that..
[22:38:46] <anonimasu> and just grind the races..
[22:38:50] <toastydeath> yeah
[22:39:07] <anonimasu> I guess stealing the design off the mit stuff is pretty easy..
[22:39:12] <anonimasu> and doing some testing :)
[22:39:14] <anonimasu> if you can grind them..
[22:39:15] <toastydeath> lol =)
[22:39:22] <toastydeath> yeah, that's the key
[22:39:32] <anonimasu> they dont look hard to do..
[22:39:38] <anonimasu> and they've got several different looks
[22:39:39] <toastydeath> doing something small enough so that the rotor and both halves of the stator can fit on your equipment
[22:39:50] <anonimasu> yep
[22:40:02] <anonimasu> I have a big mill(fairly)
[22:40:10] <anonimasu> like 500mm x and y :)
[22:40:20] <toastydeath> hahaha
[22:40:20] <toastydeath> nice
[22:40:29] <toastydeath> that's bigger than our haas
[22:40:35] <toastydeath> at school
[22:40:38] <anonimasu> it's a old abene
[22:40:45] <anonimasu> with a heidenhain control..
[22:40:52] <toastydeath> nice
[22:40:52] <anonimasu> but it runs nicely..
[22:41:01] <anonimasu> the old screws has less backslash then my new ones at my own machine..
[22:41:46] <toastydeath> lol
[22:41:59] <anonimasu> but I guess they do some trickery..
[22:42:01] <toastydeath> good ballscrews don't develop backlash
[22:42:21] <anonimasu> I thought with enough wear they do
[22:42:30] <toastydeath> they shouldn't
[22:42:40] <toastydeath> a well lubricated and kept screw will last and last
[22:42:47] <anonimasu> hm ok
[22:42:53] <toastydeath> the overall machine can wear down and develop other modes of hysteresis
[22:42:59] <toastydeath> but it's usually not the screw
[22:43:05] <toastydeath> but it looks like it, because after all, it's reversal error
[22:43:14] <toastydeath> it's just not a reversal error in the screw.
[22:43:18] <anonimasu> hm ok
[22:44:03] <ds2> isn't it the nut that causes the backlash?
[22:44:14] <toastydeath> by definition yes
[22:44:16] <anonimasu> that's what I thought too
[22:44:22] <toastydeath> but backlash refers to JUST that
[22:44:36] <toastydeath> hysterisis in the screw due to a gap between the nut and screw
[22:44:38] <anonimasu> though(screw) is what I mention because screw + nut
[22:44:56] <toastydeath> there are a bunch of other systems that can lag and cause apparent backlash
[22:45:13] <toastydeath> wearing bearings, ways, etc
[22:45:20] <toastydeath> mounts coming loose
[22:46:19] <toastydeath> a good example of that is a tenths dial test indicator
[22:46:28] <toastydeath> if you set it up on a gage block, and gently push down
[22:46:31] <toastydeath> zero it
[22:46:35] <toastydeath> then gently push up and release
[22:46:38] <toastydeath> it will hold a different zero
[22:46:47] <toastydeath> but if you push back down, it goes right back to where you zeroed it
[22:46:54] <toastydeath> and the thing is spring loaded
[22:47:02] <toastydeath> same thing happens on a larger scale on a machine tool
[22:47:47] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:47:57] <anonimasu> toastydeath: let's continue this but about spindle designs some day ;)
[22:48:06] <anonimasu> toastydeath: (leeching off your knowledge)
[22:48:10] <anonimasu> thanks for the help
[22:48:28] <toastydeath> np man
[22:48:31] <toastydeath> glad to help anytime
[22:48:45] <anonimasu> I should try to get the grinder running tomorrow
[22:48:53] <anonimasu> I made a mount for the shield yesterday..
[22:49:01] <anonimasu> shatter shield..
[22:49:06] <anonimasu> now I need to make one :)
[22:49:28] <toastydeath> hahah
[22:49:45] <toastydeath> cart to horse: get thee behind me!
[22:49:50] <anonimasu> :)
[22:50:03] <anonimasu> it is a real grinder though..
[22:50:12] <anonimasu> err grinder/tpg..
[22:50:23] <anonimasu> but, I dont see how anyone could ever have used it without a shatterguard..
[22:50:27] <anonimasu> it scared the hell out of me..
[22:50:49] <anonimasu> a ~4-6" disc spinning at 8krpm
[22:50:56] <anonimasu> err scares.
[22:51:17] <toastydeath> hahahah
[22:51:29] <toastydeath> A BLATANT DISREGARD FOR LIFE
[22:51:32] <anonimasu> yeah
[22:51:35] <anonimasu> that's exactly it
[22:51:47] <anonimasu> a little bit too much and "wham!"
[22:51:58] <anonimasu> "YOU ARE DEAD"
[22:52:20] <toastydeath> hahahah.
[22:54:00] <toastydeath> i must find jackscrews
[22:54:05] <toastydeath> at the school shop
[22:54:10] <toastydeath> i know they exist
[22:54:15] <anonimasu> jackscrews?
[22:54:16] <toastydeath> i just have to figure out... where
[22:54:21] <anonimasu> like machinist jacks?
[22:54:22] <toastydeath> like, machinist's jacks?
[22:54:23] <toastydeath> yeah
[22:54:29] <anonimasu> oh I need to make them
[22:54:50] <toastydeath> i've got my chatter problem
[22:54:50] <anonimasu> :)
[22:54:53] <toastydeath> and i think they will solve it
[22:54:56] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:54:57] <toastydeath> but i am not sure
[22:55:00] <toastydeath> i may just have to slow dowwwnnn
[22:55:02] <ds2> we made those as a class project
[22:55:13] <toastydeath> i'm inching my way up to 7500 rpm on a 1" endmill
[22:55:14] <ds2> turned out to be quite useful in moving a lathe around ;)
[22:55:14] <toastydeath> in alum
[22:55:19] <anonimasu> but I need some way to make a square thread..(I dont feel like ordering taps and stuff..
[22:55:22] <anonimasu> )
[22:55:27] <ds2> hope that EM is not HSS ;)
[22:55:31] <toastydeath> ds2: it is
[22:55:42] <anonimasu> ew
[22:55:47] <ds2> eh? doesn't tend to uh.. .like glow?
[22:55:51] <anonimasu> ^_^
[22:55:52] <toastydeath> ds2: nope
[22:55:54] <anonimasu> flood coolant helps
[22:55:57] <user__> What are you going to do with jacks to resolve chatter? Or are you on a piece with overhang?
[22:56:01] <ds2> that's almost 2000 SFPM
[22:56:03] <toastydeath> overhang, yes
[22:56:12] <user__> works great for that
[22:56:18] <toastydeath> cool
[22:56:27] <anonimasu> toastydeath: why are you in school?
[22:56:36] <anonimasu> toastydeath: I thought you were already a machinist
[22:56:43] <toastydeath> because i'd like to eventually get a master's degree or doctorate in precision engineering
[22:56:47] <anonimasu> ah ok
[22:56:49] <toastydeath> i'm an apprentice.
[22:56:52] <user__> user__ is now known as skinnypuppy1334
[22:57:20] <jlmjvm> they have a degree for precision engineering?
[22:57:34] <toastydeath> not a batchelor's degree
[22:58:17] <toastydeath> but a few schools have high precsision facilities and courses
[22:58:30] <toastydeath> either precision design or precision process
[22:58:38] <toastydeath> i would like to go to the process side
[22:58:58] <jlmjvm> didnt know u could get a degree like that
[22:59:19] <toastydeath> they're apparently out there
[23:00:11] <toastydeath> the neat thing is there's a demand for diamond turning operators and programmers
[23:00:20] <toastydeath> so i can always find a job if i have to move around
[23:00:25] <jlmjvm> where is this school?
[23:00:39] <anonimasu> toastydeath: I imagine it's hard to turn that kind of stuff..
[23:00:41] <toastydeath> jlmjvm: there's several schools with precision programs
[23:00:42] <ds2> is precision eng part of ME?
[23:00:46] <toastydeath> ds2: it is
[23:00:49] <anonimasu> toastydeath: breathe too hard and you fuck up your part..
[23:00:49] <toastydeath> subspecialty
[23:00:51] <anonimasu> :p
[23:00:55] <toastydeath> anonimasu: unfortunately, yes =(
[23:01:10] <ds2> toastydeath: did they make you do the usual GRE + recommendations to get in there?
[23:01:19] <toastydeath> i'm still working on my normal degree, dude
[23:01:21] <toastydeath> batchelor's
[23:01:23] <anonimasu> "whew finally done... DAMN off bu 0.00001mm"
[23:01:29] <ds2> oh
[23:01:52] <ds2> anonimasu: so you knead the part slightly ;)
[23:01:57] <toastydeath> anonimasu: the good thing about the diamond turning
[23:02:05] <toastydeath> is .01mm is a mile
[23:02:09] <toastydeath> so you turn it a little
[23:02:14] <toastydeath> and if it's wrong, so what, put it back up and cut it again
[23:02:31] <toastydeath> it's not uncommon to require 3+ passes to get an optic right
[23:02:41] <skinnypuppy1334> I wouldn't know where to start to resolve that kind of error. Knew a guy that worked for parker aerospace complained about parts being off by the millionths ...
[23:02:44] <ds2> I wonder if magnetic field orientation becomes critical at those tolerances
[23:02:53] <toastydeath> not really
[23:03:03] <toastydeath> it's a lot of fun to resolve the error
[23:03:08] <toastydeath> once you know the factors that go into it
[23:03:18] <anonimasu> millionths..
[23:03:24] <skinnypuppy1334> I'm certain its a whole other level
[23:03:40] <toastydeath> aerospace is a huge consumer of diamond turned optics
[23:03:51] <anonimasu> 0.000254mm?
[23:03:58] <toastydeath> yes
[23:04:02] <toastydeath> 25.4 nanometers
[23:04:06] <toastydeath> = 1 millionth
[23:04:20] <anonimasu> brb.. driving my friend home
[23:04:31] <anonimasu> he's getting bored at me talking about bearings and stuff he dosent understand ;)
[23:04:34] <toastydeath> ha
[23:04:36] <toastydeath> owned
[23:04:37] <toastydeath> =(
[23:04:43] <ds2> hahaha
[23:04:55] <anonimasu> oh he's been gaming something and singing something about drugs meanwhile..
[23:05:03] <anonimasu> ;p
[23:05:14] <toastydeath> down in the millionths, the surface damage done to the part by improper tool rake selection
[23:05:19] <toastydeath> in prior operations
[23:05:22] <toastydeath> can screw your part up
[23:05:47] <toastydeath> gotta machine out all the damage before you can start to actually figure the optic
[23:05:56] <toastydeath> i wish i was turning optics =(
[23:09:31] <dmess> i'll trade ya jobs for a few month's...
[23:10:33] <toastydeath> hahah
[23:12:48] <dmess> we only work to .002" true position.. but parts can be 6-9 ft long and have lugs at 5-7 different angles and positions...
[23:13:50] <toastydeath> beam line?
[23:14:03] <dmess> Many operations to screw up a good part.... and NDT and plating.... many sizes are to be met AFTER cad plating....
[23:14:17] <dmess> what bo you mean??
[23:14:32] <dmess> do
[23:14:40] <toastydeath> i meant is that what you run
[23:14:44] <toastydeath> a beam line
[23:14:59] <toastydeath> or aerospace?
[23:15:26] <dmess> no we mfg the whole landing gear for various commercial and military aircraft..
[23:15:45] <toastydeath> cool
[23:16:07] <dmess> new assembly project in house is the dreamliner main gear - 787
[23:17:04] <dmess> we do the superjet 100, global express, cl604,rj,v22,f18
[23:17:47] <dmess> hawker 800 & 850 xp, h4000,bd100
[23:17:55] <toastydeath> sounds like a lot of variety to the jobs that come through
[23:18:40] <dmess> all different parts that look a little alike .. all with different requirements and specs
[23:19:46] <dmess> most are 300m or super high-tuf... some are hi-strength forged aluminum ( v22 mains)
[23:20:08] <dmess> aermet-100 too..
[23:20:57] <toastydeath> nice
[23:24:55] <dmess> not
[23:25:34] <dmess> we finish post h/t.. Rc 52-54
[23:31:08] <toastydeath> tiem 4 schools!
[23:53:41] <dmess> see ya..
[23:53:47] <dmess> learn lots