#emc | Logs for 2007-11-09

[00:06:36] <Ziegler> is 2.2.1 a recent release ?
[00:08:38] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[00:10:56] <eric_U> yesterday?
[00:11:29] <Ziegler> cool
[00:18:54] <dmess> right on
[02:00:41] <cradek> amazing. not only do I have a 2-56 tap like I need, I have dozens of them
[02:01:01] <SWPadnos> they're so small, I can imagine overlooking them
[02:01:03] <SWPadnos> a lot of them
[02:01:05] <cradek> buying boxes of unknown crap at an auction sometimes works out
[02:01:14] <jmkasunich__> ;-)
[02:02:34] <cradek> yeah the box of a dozen is about the size of a box of matches
[02:02:54] <SWPadnos> small matches ;)
[02:03:03] <ds2> sure they are not LH? ;)
[02:03:36] <cradek> ds2: I checked
[02:04:02] <ds2> I think it would funny to go swap out someone's tap set with a bunch of LH taps }:-)
[02:04:24] <cradek> ha
[02:04:29] <cradek> funny but expensive
[02:04:36] <SWPadnos> I think that would be very funny if you could do it without leaving fingerprints or DNA evidence
[02:05:26] <ds2> like DNA evidence as in the blood that will be flowing out of you when the guy finds out ;)
[02:05:47] <SWPadnos> the evidence that would cause him to know who did it ;)
[02:06:57] <cradek> more like: thanks for the LH taps, I always wanted a set of those, now I'll go buy another RH set at harbor freight for $6
[02:07:45] <ds2> a cheap LH tap isn't that much more expensive then a decent RH tap
[02:08:22] <ds2> and if you buy taps at HF, you must be tapping wax
[02:08:29] <ds2> the ones in my set twist but don't break
[02:08:54] <jmkasunich__> heh, that reminded me of something
[02:08:57] <cradek> a couple years back I needed a LH metric die - talk about a rare animal
[02:09:17] <jmkasunich__> we once had a drill bit at work that untwisted without breaking when it caught in the hole
[02:15:03] <SWPadnos> so you ended up with a reamer
[02:15:08] <SWPadnos> of unknown diameter ;)
[02:15:19] <jmkasunich__> and only two flutes
[02:15:24] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:15:41] <jmkasunich__> and a random spiral - parts of it still spiraled forwards, parts backwards
[02:15:51] <SWPadnos> I guess that should have been labeled a "twist or drill"
[02:15:54] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:15:55] <jmkasunich__> ISTR having a photo somehwere, but dunno where
[02:16:06] <SWPadnos> I think I've seen that photo actually
[02:16:16] <SWPadnos> it may be on the old metalweb site or something
[02:16:25] <jmkasunich__> probably
[02:17:22] <user__> How do you launch holecircle and involute ?
[02:17:25] <jmkasunich__> http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/_2001_retired_files/untwisted.jpg
[02:18:29] <SWPadnos> if you have .py files specified in the ini or axisrc file, then you just load them with axis
[02:18:44] <SWPadnos> I don't remember exactly where to specify the file types / handlers though
[02:19:36] <SWPadnos> heh. it would be cool to be able to write a C program, and have axis compile it for you, then run it, then use the result of that as the NC file :)
[02:20:25] <user__> Do I need another python package to run from terminal?
[02:20:45] <cradek> that would be easy, your handler would be for .c files, and your handling program (script) would build and run the program, which would send the output to stdout
[02:20:48] <SWPadnos> I think you should be able to use something like `python holecircle.py`
[02:21:01] <SWPadnos> cradek, yep. seems like it should work
[02:21:03] <cradek> no, open holecircle in axis
[02:21:10] <cradek> your handler should be .py = python
[02:21:11] <SWPadnos> can you not run it from the terminal?
[02:21:13] <cradek> see sim/axis
[02:21:27] <cradek> SWPadnos: could be, but it will just spew the gcode to stdout
[02:21:29] <SWPadnos> sure
[02:21:44] <SWPadnos> `python holecircle.py > my_nc_file.ngc`
[02:21:55] <user__> I get an error in axis when I open a .py or .png
[02:22:28] <user__> SWPadnos I'll try that didn't know python was part of the syntax
[02:22:38] <SWPadnos> only at the terminal, if necessary
[02:22:55] <SWPadnos> it should work as cradek pointed out, if the ini file is set up right
[02:23:30] <cradek> try sim/axis and if that works, you only need to fix your ini
[02:25:20] <user__> Yep works in sim. I'll look at the sim ini thanks !
[02:25:44] <cradek> I'm happy to hear that...
[03:07:07] <cradek> crazy. each of these taps has "G#1" engraved on it by hand
[03:08:06] <cradek> wonder whose job that was, and what he did to deserve it
[03:10:34] <toastydeath> freehand?
[03:13:30] <cradek> yes
[03:13:36] <cradek> they're all a bit different
[03:14:39] <cradek> I think these are old. The labels on the boxes are about faded away, and the boxes have wood inside to protect the taps
[03:14:59] <cradek> (and they say USA on them, another sign they're old)
[03:16:33] <toastydeath> hahah
[03:23:04] <PeterDumbassW> PeterDumbassW is now known as PeterW
[03:23:46] <SWPadnos> heh.
[03:23:53] <SWPadnos> I thought I recognized that name
[03:24:25] <SWPadnos> so PeterW, any news on the 7i43?
[03:25:21] <PeterW> Saw that discussion concerning watchdogs, Hostmot has a watchdog and I would expect most other most other controller card do too
[03:25:49] <SWPadnos> yep. I think the WDT write is part of the misc update function
[03:25:52] <SWPadnos> whatever it's called
[03:26:34] <PeterW> 7I43 cards came today, 2 minor patches and they are good to go, will probably ship some tommorow
[03:26:38] <SWPadnos> cool!
[03:26:49] <SWPadnos> still the $79 or $89 price I think I remember?
[03:28:39] <PeterW> Yep, Ive updated the price list, there are three versions ,200K Parallel, 200K para+usb and 400K para+usb I think 79,89,99
[03:29:09] <SWPadnos> nice. Hopefully i"ll have time to order some tomorrow :)
[03:29:50] <jepler> * jepler is tempted to order one too, despite how little he needs it
[03:30:02] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos is tempted to send you one anyway
[03:30:13] <PeterW> (secret-- if you order parallel only 200K you will get USB for a while)
[03:30:23] <SWPadnos> woohoo!
[03:30:27] <SWPadnos> but it's so small ;)
[03:31:19] <PeterW> Well its just a little smaller LUT wise that the FPGA on the 5I20
[03:31:57] <SWPadnos> yep
[03:32:05] <SWPadnos> with the reduced number of I/O, it's probably fine
[03:32:19] <SWPadnos> how many gates are sucked up by USB and/or EPP?
[03:32:48] <PeterW> I am going to make a reduced version of HOSTMOT2 for it
[03:33:54] <PeterW> The EPP stuff is pretty small, the 48bit GPIO config being about 4% of the 400K and 8% of the 200K
[03:35:12] <PeterW> (the epp interface itself is probably about 1/3 of that including pretty good filtering so long cables should be ok
[03:35:30] <SWPadnos> oh yeah - I was looking at the ethernet stuff earlier today, and noticed that the 4I71 isn't on the proce list
[03:35:30] <SWPadnos> ok, not too bad
[03:36:26] <PeterW> USB stuff is about twice as big sice we have a weensy 8 bit processor to do our little protocol
[03:36:33] <PeterW> since
[03:36:37] <SWPadnos> hmmm. which one?
[03:36:43] <SWPadnos> or is it an embedded one>
[03:36:45] <SWPadnos> ?
[03:37:24] <PeterW> Embedded Harvard Arch 100 Mips ~ 150 slices
[03:37:30] <SWPadnos> wow
[03:37:41] <SWPadnos> small instruction set I imagine
[03:37:50] <SWPadnos> is it the picoblaze or something else?
[03:38:44] <PeterW> Simple accumulator oriented: lda,sta,add,addc,sub,subb etc etc
[03:39:03] <jmkasunich__> what, no FPU?
[03:39:35] <SWPadnos> oh, is it similar to the softDMC processor?
[03:39:36] <PeterW> No, its home grown, Picoblaze is not piplined so about 2 times slower
[03:40:14] <SWPadnos> and microblaze is probably a bit too big for general use on these (now considered) small chips
[03:40:22] <PeterW> Very similar to Sweet16 But Ive learned some trick to make it smaller
[03:40:27] <SWPadnos> cool
[03:42:01] <PeterW> I also wanted something small and with no licensing restrictions
[03:42:05] <SWPadnos> ah, ok. the prices are in the PDF, not on the HTML page yet
[03:42:11] <SWPadnos> yep
[03:42:30] <SWPadnos> the picoblaze is relatively unrestricted, except that only people who buy the EDK can use it I think
[03:43:06] <PeterW> Not sure its legal in non Xilinx FPGAs
[03:43:27] <SWPadnos> right, and I don't think they give you source anyway, it's one of their IP blocks
[03:43:53] <SWPadnos> luckily, Xilinx has very good support for encrypted Verilog/VHDL files
[03:43:56] <SWPadnos> bastards
[03:44:28] <PeterW> We originally used PicoBlaze for SoftDMC but wanted something faster
[03:45:09] <PeterW> Who wants to mess with licensing unless its something you cant do yourself
[03:45:31] <SWPadnos> indeed (unless you're in a big hurry, and price/philosophy don't matter) :)
[03:46:43] <PeterW> Anyway, the source for the processor (Dumbass8) in the USB GPIO config is on the website
[03:46:47] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:47:20] <cradek> I suspect a lot of emc users will be chomping at the bit for these.
[03:47:30] <cradek> like the pluto, but better
[03:47:29] <jepler> they'll expect one of us to write a driver
[03:47:40] <PeterW> We still need to get the protocol firmware working
[03:47:58] <cradek> jepler: yep surely so
[03:47:59] <PeterW> Of course I do!
[03:48:05] <SWPadnos> users too
[03:48:15] <SWPadnos> it's not just vendors ;)
[03:48:45] <cradek> jepler: actually I expect you to do it
[03:48:53] <jepler> eek
[03:49:04] <SWPadnos> that's why I'm considering sening jepler a board, of course
[03:49:06] <jepler> but I was too inept to get it right on the pluto
[03:49:12] <SWPadnos> I don't want to have to do the dirty work ;)
[03:49:14] <cradek> I'll have to get sam interested, he'll send you one
[03:49:22] <SWPadnos> well, with enough gates, I have confidence in you
[03:49:32] <cradek> * cradek ponders his plan
[03:49:38] <SWPadnos> muahahahahaga
[03:49:44] <SWPadnos> err - sounds great
[03:49:45] <cradek> jepler: my pluto works great. I don't know what you're talking about.
[03:49:48] <jmkasunich__> * jmkasunich__ ponders the summer that he didn't spend getting the 5i20 driver working
[03:49:58] <SWPadnos> why dwell on the past
[03:50:04] <SWPadnos> why not dwell on the future?
[03:50:13] <cradek> right, ponder the summer you WILL get it working, whichever one that might be
[03:50:17] <SWPadnos> and in the future, you can dwell on how the future (now the present) came about
[03:51:49] <jmkasunich__> I certainly hope it isn't a summer
[03:51:58] <jmkasunich__> it should be this winter, if I can get my ass in gear
[03:52:19] <jmkasunich__> jmkasunich__ is now known as jmkasunich
[03:52:26] <SWPadnos> hmmm. an ass-sized gear
[03:52:30] <SWPadnos> maybe MSC has those
[03:53:27] <eric_U> I have an ass sized gear in the basement
[03:53:45] <SWPadnos> if I find my round tuit, I'll send it over
[03:54:12] <eric_U> it's a worm gear, have no idea why they made it so big
[03:54:23] <SWPadnos> I really don't want to know any more
[03:54:26] <SWPadnos> :)
[03:54:30] <eric_U> :)
[03:55:00] <jepler> 'night all
[03:55:19] <SWPadnos> see ya
[03:55:28] <PeterW> night
[03:57:19] <eric_U> too bad the 7i37 doubles the price of a 4i71
[03:57:31] <SWPadnos> ?
[03:57:38] <SWPadnos> the 4i71 is an ethernet card
[03:57:46] <SWPadnos> 8-port
[03:57:54] <eric_U> ok, so I"m not good with numbers
[03:57:57] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:58:37] <eric_U> meant 7i43
[03:58:52] <SWPadnos> isolation ain't cheap
[03:58:57] <SWPadnos> for dozens of pins
[03:59:27] <eric_U> If I was buying it for work, $80 is very cheap
[03:59:45] <eric_U> but my wife spent all our money
[05:49:31] <Wowbagger_> When I open a simple (or any) .ngc file in emc2 it just hangs.
[05:50:38] <SWPadnos> what user interface are you using?
[05:51:04] <Wowbagger_> Whatever the default is.
[05:51:12] <Wowbagger_> Axis?
[05:51:16] <SWPadnos> It may be AXIS
[05:51:16] <SWPadnos> ok
[05:51:23] <SWPadnos> I think some configs use other UIs
[05:51:30] <Wowbagger_> Should I try another ui?
[05:51:45] <SWPadnos> does AXIS hang when loading the splash file (the one that says EMC2 AXIS)?
[05:51:51] <Wowbagger_> no
[05:52:00] <Wowbagger_> well... not at start anyway
[05:52:04] <Wowbagger_> i haven't tried loading it afterwards.
[05:52:16] <SWPadnos> ok, try that
[05:52:23] <Wowbagger_> what's it called?
[05:52:36] <SWPadnos> I think you can click some reload button
[05:52:49] <SWPadnos> I don't recall where it actually comes from
[05:53:07] <Wowbagger_> yup hangs
[05:53:12] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[05:53:24] <SWPadnos> what do you mean when you say hangs?
[05:53:24] <Wowbagger_> it's an old slow laptop
[05:53:34] <Wowbagger_> when I mouse over it i get a spinning wheel and nothing works.
[05:53:36] <SWPadnos> AXIS becomes unresponsive, all apps are unresponsive
[05:53:36] <Wowbagger_> i have to kill it.
[05:53:42] <SWPadnos> ok, wait a while
[05:53:42] <Wowbagger_> just axis.
[05:53:51] <Wowbagger_> How long? I've tried waiting a few minutes.
[05:54:04] <SWPadnos> if the laptop doesn't have much memory, then generating the preview could take a while
[05:54:13] <SWPadnos> though it is strange that it loads fine at first
[05:54:16] <Wowbagger_> yeah
[05:54:35] <Wowbagger_> It's not swapping.
[05:54:44] <SWPadnos> I think this may be a jepler or cradek question. I'm not very familiar with the inner workings of AXIS
[05:54:56] <SWPadnos> well, that is a n openGL preview, so it could be crunching also :)
[05:55:19] <Wowbagger_> top says it's crunching...
[05:55:29] <Wowbagger_> but i think it's just looping doing nothing.
[05:55:37] <SWPadnos> I wouldn't bet on it
[05:55:54] <Wowbagger_> It loads fast at at first though.
[05:55:58] <SWPadnos> it's certainly possible, but this would be the first report of that kind that I've heard
[05:56:07] <Wowbagger_> hm
[05:56:51] <SWPadnos> also, if you've killed EMC / AXIS a number of times, it's possible that something isn't getting cleaned up correctly
[05:56:55] <Wowbagger_> I could try slowing down the real time stuff.
[05:57:05] <SWPadnos> what do you have the period at?
[05:57:06] <SWPadnos> BASE_PERIOD
[05:57:12] <Wowbagger_> I lowered it form default... looking.
[05:57:16] <Wowbagger_> raised I mean
[05:57:35] <SWPadnos> went to a number less than 50000 or more than 50000 (which I think is the default)
[05:57:42] <SWPadnos> ?
[05:57:43] <Wowbagger_> 100000
[05:57:51] <SWPadnos> ok, that's plenty slow - what's the CPU/RAM
[05:58:08] <Wowbagger_> ram is ~160MB
[05:58:18] <SWPadnos> ok, that's skating a bit for Ubuntu
[05:58:24] <Wowbagger_> cpu is 233MHz amd
[05:58:32] <SWPadnos> ok, that's quite slow
[05:58:35] <Wowbagger_> indeed
[05:58:36] <SWPadnos> what about video?
[05:58:49] <Wowbagger_> At the moment I'm ssh'ng in... but was doing it locally earlier.
[05:58:59] <Wowbagger_> I dunno about the video. How can I tell?
[05:59:12] <SWPadnos> lspci or check the X log
[05:59:18] <SWPadnos> there's probably an even easier way too
[05:59:30] <Wowbagger_> neomagic nm2160
[06:00:00] <Wowbagger_> still hung
[06:00:18] <Wowbagger_> non responsive i suppose is the correct term
[06:00:24] <SWPadnos> is the neomagic on the host machine or the laptop?
[06:00:30] <SWPadnos> heh - right :)
[06:01:17] <Wowbagger_> I'm sshing from a laptop to a laptop. The slow laptop running emc has the neomagic.
[06:01:43] <Wowbagger_> i think I should try a different gui
[06:01:47] <Wowbagger_> What do you use?
[06:02:09] <Wowbagger_> I suppose I could try slowing the CYCLE_TIME
[06:02:20] <SWPadnos> I don't really use any GIU, since I have no machine at the moment, but I usually test with AXIS
[06:02:24] <SWPadnos> err - GUI
[06:02:59] <SWPadnos> I've loaded very large files with it - like 20MB, ~160000 lines
[06:03:25] <SWPadnos> it takes a little while for that size file, even on the Opteron system I used for that test
[06:03:34] <Wowbagger_> I suspect my slow machine has found a race condition of some sort.
[06:04:01] <SWPadnos> I don't think there's a race, and there's no RT usage generating the preview
[06:04:38] <SWPadnos> there could be something that's somewhat inefficient, which combined with the slow CPU speed and potential lack of MMX-type extensions, gets exceedingly slow
[06:04:40] <Wowbagger_> well clearly something's wrong.
[06:04:43] <SWPadnos> yep, sure is
[06:04:53] <SWPadnos> I'd be curious to see what happens if you leave it overnight
[06:04:57] <SWPadnos> is it eating up memory?
[06:05:08] <Wowbagger_> i just killed it.
[06:05:10] <Wowbagger_> i'll pay more attention next time.
[06:05:14] <Wowbagger_> I may leave it overnight.
[06:05:16] <SWPadnos> was it eating up memory ;)
[06:05:22] <Wowbagger_> Not that I noticed.
[06:05:27] <SWPadnos> heh
[06:05:28] <Wowbagger_> I just got bored.
[06:05:39] <SWPadnos> you can change the startup file to something more complex
[06:05:50] <SWPadnos> I don't remember exactly how at the moment
[06:05:57] <Wowbagger_> You mean a more complex ngc file?
[06:06:01] <SWPadnos> yes
[06:06:25] <Wowbagger_> is axis the only one with the graphic preview?
[06:06:30] <SWPadnos> yes
[06:06:39] <Wowbagger_> hmf
[06:06:42] <SWPadnos> so you ran emc from a terminal?
[06:06:52] <Wowbagger_> yeah
[06:07:04] <SWPadnos> no messages or other status printed there?
[06:07:05] <Wowbagger_> I just cut and pasted from the icon it put on the desktop
[06:07:18] <SWPadnos> oh. all you need to do is type "emc"
[06:07:27] <SWPadnos> it should be on the path, and needs no arguments
[06:07:46] <Wowbagger_> doing that brings up pesky questions.
[06:08:08] <Wowbagger_> I guess that wasn't so bad. (just tried it)
[06:08:10] <SWPadnos> heh
[06:08:26] <Wowbagger_> whoops... still on tkemc
[06:08:32] <SWPadnos> I think there's some option to just use the last config (and you can just hit enter to do that I believe)
[06:08:39] <SWPadnos> you have to select the correct config
[06:10:03] <Wowbagger_> Just tried loading my test file again (which is just a couple lines... just goes to 0,0,10mm).
[06:10:09] <Wowbagger_> No messages on console
[06:10:20] <Wowbagger_> err... in terminal
[06:10:48] <SWPadnos> well, it did the same thing reloading hte axis splash gcode, right?
[06:10:49] <SWPadnos> the
[06:10:54] <Wowbagger_> yeah
[06:10:57] <Wowbagger_> right... forgot
[06:11:19] <Wowbagger_> memory usage isn't growing.
[06:11:21] <SWPadnos> hmmm. you may want to post a message to the user list, or use the name jepler a lot on this channel so he can see the problem :)
[06:11:35] <Wowbagger_> heh heh
[06:11:47] <Wowbagger_> I suppose I can use the more basic gui's in the mean time.
[06:12:09] <SWPadnos> yep
[06:31:14] <Wowbagger_> been ~15min... no messages, no increase in memory usage.
[06:31:51] <Wowbagger_> milltask is taking 10% processor and axis 76%.
[06:31:51] <SWPadnos> ok. at this point I don't expect anything to change, but it shouldn't hurt anything to leave it up overnight
[06:31:56] <SWPadnos> ok
[06:32:24] <SWPadnos> it's possible that there's a problem with the openGL implementation on your computer - that's not a very popular video chipset you have there
[06:33:20] <SWPadnos> I'm just guessing here, if you couldn't tell ;)
[06:34:44] <Wowbagger_> well, right now it's running through ssh
[06:35:09] <Wowbagger_> Local machine is i915
[06:35:25] <SWPadnos> hmmm. true, that should make a difference
[06:35:46] <SWPadnos> I've tun it quite successfully on an i965 I think
[06:35:48] <Wowbagger_> It behaves the same local or through ssh
[06:35:49] <SWPadnos> run
[06:37:16] <Wowbagger_> I'm going to fiddle with it... but may leave it overnight to humour you. ;)
[06:37:44] <SWPadnos> thanks :P
[06:38:11] <SWPadnos> the evidence point sagainst that helping, but what the heck, right?
[06:38:17] <SWPadnos> points against
[06:39:04] <Wowbagger_> indeed
[06:39:21] <Wowbagger_> Maybe the processor will burn out and I'll be forced to use a faster machine.
[06:39:31] <SWPadnos> oh, that would be helpful
[06:40:31] <Wowbagger_> Increased BASE_PERIOD to 500000, no obvious improvement.
[06:40:34] <SWPadnos> I just ordered a pair of these for experimentation: http://www.clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A4842001
[06:40:57] <SWPadnos> no, there wouldn't be. the RT system is running, but isn't really used when generating the preview
[06:41:50] <SWPadnos> I figured that at $60 with PCI slots, they're probably a good option for EMC2
[06:41:59] <Wowbagger_> They have processors?
[06:42:13] <SWPadnos> yep
[06:42:17] <Wowbagger_> no ram tho?
[06:42:24] <SWPadnos> it's an Eden I think, so it's soldered on
[06:42:45] <SWPadnos> no, no RAM, but I just noticed the link on that page for 1GB DDR2 for $21.99 shipped
[06:42:51] <Wowbagger_> yeah
[06:42:53] <Wowbagger_> saw that
[06:43:02] <SWPadnos> so still $81 total
[06:43:07] <SWPadnos> err - $82
[06:43:31] <Wowbagger_> I should figure out if one of my old cases could power those.
[06:43:33] <SWPadnos> get a picoPSU for $40-50 or so, and you have a very low power system that runs off 24VDC
[06:43:54] <SWPadnos> it looks like a 20-pin ATC in the photo, but a newer version may be 24-pin
[06:44:33] <Wowbagger_> I have less than no room for new stuff.
[06:44:51] <SWPadnos> if you toss the old laptop, there'll be plenty of room for it ;)
[06:45:00] <Wowbagger_> point
[06:45:23] <SWPadnos> though you might be able to use the laptop LCD with it
[06:45:27] <Wowbagger_> I can't think of a good 24V source...
[06:45:34] <Wowbagger_> that lcd blows
[06:45:42] <SWPadnos> oh, the PicoPSU also comes in a 12V version
[06:45:51] <Wowbagger_> I have a mostly unused good lcd monitor
[06:45:58] <SWPadnos> I just like the one that you can use anything from ~14-~30V with
[06:46:13] <SWPadnos> ok, haul that out, throw away the laptop, and you're golden
[06:47:00] <SWPadnos> you could almost run the PC off the monitor power supply - I think it's ~40W total
[06:47:07] <SWPadnos> probably less at idle
[06:47:36] <Wowbagger_> that's what I should be using for my server
[06:47:47] <Wowbagger_> Maybe I should turn one of those into a server and use the server for the mill.
[06:47:49] <SWPadnos> oh - good point. good thing I got two
[06:47:56] <Wowbagger_> Seeing as it's on... well, never.
[06:48:01] <Wowbagger_> (the mill)
[06:48:13] <SWPadnos> the S3 Unichrome graphics could be an issue - I don't know the state of that driver
[06:48:26] <Wowbagger_> For running emc?
[06:48:29] <SWPadnos> yep
[06:48:50] <SWPadnos> I also do embedded consulting work, so I figured I could test these out for other purposes
[06:49:17] <Wowbagger_> would be a pain to move the server... ugh
[06:49:36] <Wowbagger_> Yeah... low power cheap PC's are great.
[06:50:18] <SWPadnos> ok - time for bed for me. it's almost 2:00 AM
[06:50:23] <Wowbagger_> heh... west coast here
[06:50:26] <Wowbagger_> later
[06:50:30] <SWPadnos> good luck with that crappy old slow laptop ;)
[06:50:31] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: wuss
[06:50:34] <JymmmEMC> ;)
[06:50:34] <Wowbagger_> heh
[06:50:35] <SWPadnos> piss off
[06:50:41] <SWPadnos> err - hi JymmmEMC
[06:50:50] <JymmmEMC> lol
[06:51:01] <SWPadnos> night
[06:51:05] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I gotta
[06:51:16] <SWPadnos> oh goodie
[06:51:20] <JymmmEMC> hit you up some time on led displays/drivers
[06:51:29] <SWPadnos> ok. sometime later though
[06:51:30] <JymmmEMC> will email you instead
[06:51:32] <SWPadnos> ok
[06:51:42] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: atmel your thing?
[06:51:56] <SWPadnos> yep
[06:52:05] <JymmmEMC> cool beans, sleep well!
[06:52:09] <SWPadnos> yep
[14:32:09] <skunkworks_> does the mesa card have a watchdog type circut to sence that the computer locked up?
[14:32:26] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ could look
[14:32:36] <SWPadnos> sort of
[14:33:04] <SWPadnos> it doesn't have hardware to do that, but the hostmot config has a watchdog in the FPGA
[14:33:39] <SWPadnos> so you have to program the FPGA to get it to work (which means the computer has to have booted and loaded the config, etc)
[14:33:56] <skunkworks_> ok - that is what I ment.. I didn't mean extra harware - I ment programmed into the fpga.
[14:34:15] <SWPadnos> also, it doesn't detect that the PC has locked up, it only knows that it hasn't been refreshed by the software, and sets its outputs to "default
[14:34:16] <SWPadnos> ""
[14:34:21] <SWPadnos> -"
[14:34:29] <skunkworks_> ok
[14:36:08] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.2/html/hal_drivers.html#r1_5_2
[14:36:37] <jepler> the default value may be 0 (watchdog not enabled); you'd want to setp ...watchdog-control 3 to enable it and tie it to the HAL dac-write function.
[14:37:52] <SWPadnos> yep, and it doesn't do things like microcontroller watchdogs do (reset the chip), all it does is set the outputs to 0 and turn off PWMs (or anything tied to the internal enable signal, I imagine)
[14:38:13] <SWPadnos> actually, I haven't looked at the VHDL to see exactly what it does, so don't listen to me yet
[14:38:29] <skunkworks_> I was just wondering in generalities.
[14:39:07] <SWPadnos> don't worry, I don't plan to look at the VHDL for you (that's left as an exercise for the reader ;) )
[14:39:06] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=364052&postcount=20
[14:39:59] <SWPadnos> sometimes I consider registering on that site to correct some silly comment, but then I think better of it
[14:40:06] <SWPadnos> thanks for doing that for me (us) :)
[14:40:14] <skunkworks_> no problem :)
[14:46:43] <jepler> looks like the hostmot watchdog may only stop the DACs; I can't see where it defaults or tristates the dumb I/O pins.
[14:46:57] <jepler> if ((MissedIRQ = '1') and (StopOnMissedIRQ = '1')) or
[14:46:55] <jepler> ((WDTimeOut = '1') and (StopOnTimeout = '1')) then
[14:46:55] <jepler> StopPWM <= '1';
[14:48:39] <jepler> too bad peterw isn't around, he'd know for sure
[14:50:08] <SWPadnos> oh, could be
[14:50:12] <skunkworks_> jepler; thanks
[14:50:32] <SWPadnos> after I said it I was trying to think of how he'd do that, which is why I put in the disclaimer about not having looked at the code
[15:00:30] <skunkworks_> heh
[15:00:53] <skunkworks_> Hi PeterW
[15:00:57] <PeterW> Hi
[15:01:49] <skunkworks_> have you been reading back?
[15:02:01] <PeterW> On HostMot, WD timout turns off channel enables, and clears PWMs (just to make recovery painful...)
[15:02:56] <PeterW> I think on HostMot2 Ill just clear the DDRs so all I/O goes to startup mode
[15:03:18] <SWPadnos> maybe apply the inverts first
[15:03:43] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[15:04:04] <SWPadnos> I forgot - you only apply inversion masks to the alt functs
[15:04:54] <PeterW> What Ive done for a custom design for someone is have a set of safe settings, to be swapped in on WD timout, but thats probably overkill
[15:05:05] <SWPadnos> I think it may make sense to apply the inversions to all bits - you essentially set the polarity of a particular I/O, and it gets inverted or not regardless of whether it's simple I/O or alternate function
[15:05:14] <SWPadnos> that would work
[15:05:33] <SWPadnos> just a few registers with default values that get written on WD timeout
[15:06:18] <SWPadnos> I'm probably not making as much sense as I think I
[15:06:25] <SWPadnos> m thinking, due to lack of caffeine
[15:06:28] <PeterW> just depends on space available
[15:06:34] <SWPadnos> s/<CR>/'/
[15:06:37] <SWPadnos> yep
[15:07:02] <SWPadnos> the 5i22 certainly has room, the 5i20 possibly not, but the hostmot config isn't all that space-hungry
[15:09:14] <PeterW> Re WD: I guess I got pissed a little by a CNCzone posting suggesting something about non-step&dir servo systems crashing with +10V stuck
[15:09:27] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:09:39] <SWPadnos> yeah, there's a lot of misinformation to be had out there
[15:10:01] <PeterW> I wonder if there are any servo interfaces that _dont_ have a watchdog
[15:10:38] <SWPadnos> it is possible, but since non-engineers can think of this problem, you'd think that the engineers who design the servo systems would also think of the problem and design in safeguards
[15:12:33] <PeterW> 5I20 configs with Hotsmot2 will just have smaller option sets, 12 axis servo or 4 Step+dir and 4 Servo should be easy
[15:14:07] <skunkworks_> Very nice. I have the 5i20 for a large mill convertion.. have not played with i though yet.
[15:14:13] <skunkworks_> it
[15:16:32] <PeterW> The only thing that I'm having trouble fitting into 5I20 is my UART (8 channels takes 80%) so a serial amp + quadrature maybe limited to 6 channels
[15:17:29] <SWPadnos> does it need to be a full UART?
[15:18:01] <SWPadnos> I'm assuming that means you have a higher clock rate, you need edge detection and center-sampling, etc
[15:18:31] <PeterW> Well this is my funny UART with 32 bit interface, Amp packet is just one write
[15:19:01] <SWPadnos> is this a TX-only UART?
[15:19:07] <SWPadnos> a UAT ;)
[15:19:18] <PeterW> Yes, UART uses DDS as sampler, so no fixed /16
[15:19:27] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[15:19:29] <PeterW> No this is for TX and RX
[15:20:25] <skunkworks_> Is this a standard? (amps out there right now that would work with the uart?)
[15:20:46] <PeterW> No, our wierdo stuff
[15:20:51] <SWPadnos> not yet
[15:21:08] <skunkworks_> ok - just wondering.
[15:21:27] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ would not call it weird
[15:21:42] <SWPadnos> it's weird from a UART purists perspective
[15:22:00] <PeterW> It is just normal Async RS-422/RS485
[15:22:27] <SWPadnos> with a 32-bit interface instead of an 8-bit one :)
[15:23:42] <PeterW> We just wanted to minimise the wires going to our Amp, have smart bidirectional comms (forsetup out and bus voltage, temperature etc back)
[15:25:04] <PeterW> Plus an interface the we can isolate with just 2 (well 3 because of XMIT ena) high speed optos
[15:25:33] <SWPadnos> the AD11xx (??) series is apparently wuite good for that
[15:26:59] <PeterW> We used optos on our first Serial Amp, because the AD11 series is not rated for 3750VRMS but they have a new series that is
[15:36:36] <awallin> how's this from a university professor: "I'm certainly not interested in actively supporting an open-source replacement of VRONI"
[15:37:39] <SWPadnos> does "supporting" mean "encouraging development" or " answering stupid questions all the time"
[15:38:42] <awallin> ah, well too much of the stupid questions might make the guy a bit pessimistic I guess.
[15:39:02] <SWPadnos> right - the context could change the meaning wuite a bit :)
[15:39:03] <awallin> but the thing is he is making money, significantly so according to his email, on this Voronoi-diagram code
[15:39:17] <SWPadnos> oh, in that case he's being an ass
[15:39:19] <jepler> lucky him
[15:40:34] <awallin> I would understand it completely if he were employed by a private company
[15:41:02] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, universities are getting more and more like private companies these days
[15:41:03] <awallin> but simultaneously being faculty at 2 universities and 'information-hiding' doesn't really fit together
[15:44:18] <awallin> guess I will have to look at this Voronoi-business then from scratch when I have time... but it's supposedly not a trivial algorithm to get right (i.e. robust when the input and floating point calculations are inaccurate)
[15:44:44] <cradek> awallin: have you seen the method of using opengl to draw cones, and then looking at them from above?
[15:45:15] <awallin> cradek: I know the concept, but can opengl give you the data and not only the rendered view?
[15:45:20] <jepler> what's the relationship between voronoi diagrams and polygon offsetting?
[15:45:52] <awallin> jepler: the offset is fairly easy to construct once you have the voronoi diagram of the edges
[15:48:09] <awallin> http://www.cosy.sbg.ac.at/~held/projects/pocket_off/pocket.html
[15:48:43] <awallin> cradek: let me know if you have some links to the opengl based offsets
[15:50:17] <cradek> awallin: sorry it's only something I remember, no references
[15:50:22] <cradek> are you working on pocketing again?
[15:50:31] <awallin> ok
[15:50:44] <awallin> not working, just thinking about it ;)
[15:51:25] <awallin> I have Held's book on the voronoi diagram approach, but it's pretty cryptic math/comp.geom. for a physicist to read
[15:52:28] <cradek> http://www.cosy.sbg.ac.at/~held/projects/vroni/img/arcs26_off.gif
[15:53:10] <awallin> yeah, stuff like that. http://www.cosy.sbg.ac.at/~held/projects/pocket_off/38_off.gif
[15:54:07] <awallin> the VD for that looks like this http://www.cosy.sbg.ac.at/~held/projects/voronoi_2d/38_vd.gif
[15:55:15] <cradek> the arcs look wrong in that one
[16:00:41] <fenn> you could look at how inscape does offsetting
[16:00:46] <fenn> or does it need to be 3d?
[16:01:12] <cradek> I think jepler examined that and found it did it badly
[16:01:26] <fenn> it just looked inaccurate i think
[16:02:17] <fenn> so a voronoi diagram is the same as the "skeleton" from cgal?
[16:03:36] <fenn> hmm no i guess it's different because voronoi has polygons in the skeleton, not just lines
[16:05:24] <fenn> anyway.. awallin should look at http://www.cgal.org/
[16:06:19] <cradek> iirc cgal has a license problem
[16:06:45] <SWPadnos> CGAL is distributed under a dual-license scheme. CGAL can be used together with Open Source software free of charge. Using CGAL in other contexts can be done by obtaining a commercial license from GeometryFactory. For more details see the License page.
[16:06:57] <SWPadnos> from that link
[16:07:05] <cradek> 2D Straight Skeleton and Polygon Offsetting: QPL
[16:07:22] <fenn> QPL is basically a dual license
[16:07:34] <cradek> http://www.cgal.org/Manual/3.2/doc_html/cgal_manual/packages.html#Pkg:StraightSkeleton2
[16:07:37] <fenn> The Q Public License gives you the right to use the code under the condition that any program using it be released itself under an Open Source license.
[16:08:00] <fenn> oops
[16:08:25] <fenn> if you are the copyright owner of the GPL code, you can amend the license by adding an exception allowing the use of CGAL with it
[16:08:51] <cradek> http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/index_html/view?searchterm=qpl
[16:09:03] <cradek> Since the QPL is incompatible with the GNU GPL, you cannot take a GPL-covered program and QPL-covered program and link them together, no matter how.
[16:10:08] <fenn> they show right on that page how to fix it
[16:10:19] <cradek> right I see that now
[16:10:30] <cradek> if you're the copyright holder of all the gpl code
[16:10:37] <fenn> right
[16:11:20] <alSMT> playin around with some of the sample configs and I try to start scara and tk window opens and no axis gui loads then I try to load halui_halvpc and I get emc still running do you want to restart I select yes and halui loads and then axis then tkemc loads too just letting you know.,if you didn't already
[16:11:24] <fenn> so as long as you contain the CGAL stuff to its own little area, it shouldnt affect a larger collaborative project too much right?
[16:12:27] <cradek> alSMT: thanks, I also noticed scara doesn't work. it will be fixed in the next release.
[16:12:42] <alSMT> no thank you
[16:13:18] <fenn> what went wrong with scara?
[16:13:53] <jepler> alSMT: if you want, you can correct the problem yourself by modifying the scara.ini file as shown here: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/configs/scara/scara.ini.diff?r1=1.8;r2=;f=h
[16:14:05] <cradek> it was probably still busted from when you changed that stuff about active axes
[16:14:33] <alSMT> is there a way unload emc from terminal?
[16:15:22] <fenn> halrun -U
[16:15:29] <alSMT> thanks
[16:15:42] <fenn> that unloads all the realtime stuff
[17:56:40] <alSMT> cradek: been on the indexpage touch probe, I was wondering if there any other sights on building a touch probe?
[17:57:41] <cradek> alSMT: sorry I don't know, I bought mine (long time ago)
[17:57:56] <cradek> it seems like it would not be a hard thing to make.
[17:58:06] <cradek> there was some discussion on emc-users, you might check the archives
[17:59:15] <anonimasu> I saw a design with ball bearing balls..
[17:59:17] <anonimasu> and a pcb
[17:59:30] <alSMT> I have some ideas using and gate with contacts instead of the ball and rod type renshaw uses
[17:59:58] <cradek> I'm interested to hear what you come up with.
[18:00:03] <anonimasu> me too
[18:00:19] <anonimasu> though I dont know if it's worthwhile when you can get probes fairly cheap..
[18:00:31] <anonimasu> atleast not for me :)
[18:01:02] <alSMT> i want to talk with my nef. he's eng for borg see what he thinks
[18:01:14] <anonimasu> eng for borg?
[18:01:19] <alSMT> cheep where?
[18:01:37] <alSMT> borg warner
[18:01:47] <anonimasu> ah, I cant remember right now
[18:02:10] <alex_joni> anonimasu: cheapest I saw was 100$+
[18:02:20] <anonimasu> yeah.. that's cheap
[18:02:23] <anonimasu> I think 200~$
[18:02:37] <alSMT> where ?
[18:02:43] <alex_joni> well.. you can probably build one for ~20-30 if you want
[18:03:59] <anonimasu> I cant remember..
[18:04:44] <alSMT> do you remember brand name
[18:04:54] <anonimasu> nope
[18:04:56] <alSMT> ok
[18:05:00] <anonimasu> it was something like homeshopdepot or something
[18:05:21] <alSMT> i'll give a shot
[18:05:46] <anonimasu> ah
[18:05:50] <anonimasu> industrialhobbies
[18:05:55] <anonimasu> NO..
[18:07:43] <anonimasu> sorry :/
[18:10:32] <SWPadnos> homeshopcnc?
[18:11:13] <anonimasu> no
[18:11:19] <anonimasu> yellow page..
[18:11:31] <anonimasu> pulleys and stuff and things like that
[18:13:25] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[18:19:43] <alSMT> here's an interesting one http://www.aml.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/research/probe/probe_e.html
[18:24:38] <SWPadnos> http://www.indoor.flyer.co.uk/probe.htm
[18:25:19] <SWPadnos> that may be the one you were thinking f
[18:25:21] <SWPadnos> of
[18:28:05] <alSMT> ya I ckecked that one out
[18:34:40] <anonimasu> no
[18:34:47] <anonimasu> it was a porbe for sale.. complete..
[18:35:55] <SWPadnos> oh. could have been IMService then: http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=14
[18:37:32] <alSMT> they don't list the price
[18:37:46] <SWPadnos> they don't seem to have any in stock, but they're pretty inexpensive
[18:38:52] <alSMT> i'll givem a ring
[18:40:03] <SWPadnos> note that you're unlikely to get any support if you tell them you're using EMC
[18:40:37] <SWPadnos> they sell their own controller, and I gather they're not too helpful for others
[18:41:14] <alSMT> what others
[18:41:23] <SWPadnos> and don't ask Ray what he thinks of them :)
[18:41:34] <rayh> what what?
[18:41:37] <SWPadnos> others like you if you're not using DeskCNC or their new ncPod
[18:41:53] <SWPadnos> heh - hi Ray ;)
[18:42:04] <SWPadnos> we were just talking about IMService
[18:42:13] <rayh> Ah Fred
[18:42:19] <rayh> I remember him well.
[18:42:20] <SWPadnos> yes indeedy
[18:42:20] <alSMT> EMC is top shelf
[18:42:32] <alex_joni> heh :)
[18:42:32] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure he's too eager to help out those who use EMC
[18:42:43] <rayh> Hey got a question re software encoder read.
[18:42:49] <SWPadnos> but then again, he may be, so give it a shot if you like
[18:42:53] <SWPadnos> shoot
[18:43:02] <rayh> 9600 counts per second.
[18:43:15] <rayh> How fast does base period have to be?
[18:43:17] <SWPadnos> BASE_PERIOD=?
[18:43:23] <SWPadnos> oh, that's the question ;)
[18:43:39] <SWPadnos> depends on latency
[18:44:02] <rayh> let's say 8
[18:44:06] <SWPadnos> but you'd probably be safe with 25000-30000
[18:44:11] <SWPadnos> or even slower
[18:44:32] <rayh> Okay. I'll get the stuff and try it out.
[18:44:37] <SWPadnos> at 50000, you get 20000 interrupts/second, which is beyond Nyquist for that count rate
[18:44:47] <SWPadnos> beyond = better than
[18:45:00] <rayh> Okay.
[18:45:34] <SWPadnos> but since you can't guarantee less than 42000 (with the hypothetical 8000 latency), that's the absolute minimum phase time for the encoder
[18:45:54] <SWPadnos> which still gives you around 20k counts/sec
[18:46:07] <rayh> more than double what I need.
[18:46:17] <SWPadnos> should be, if I haven't screwed up somewhere ;)
[18:46:21] <rayh> It should be fairly safe then.
[18:46:48] <rayh> You never screw up ... do you?
[18:46:55] <SWPadnos> no comment
[18:47:22] <SWPadnos> as one person I work with said "he's never been wrong yet, but when he is, I want to be around to see it, because it's gonna be a big one" :)
[18:47:42] <rayh> what's alSMT want Fred to do?
[18:47:58] <SWPadnos> he was just looking for a probe, and IMServ has one
[18:48:07] <SWPadnos> but they don't have a price - I guess they're out of stock
[18:48:18] <SWPadnos> so he was going to call and ask about it
[18:48:34] <SWPadnos> I mentioned that he might not get the best response if he told them he's using EMC
[18:49:16] <SWPadnos> which I suppose isn't fair, because I have no direct experience with them, I've only heard about that from several others
[18:49:19] <SWPadnos> so YMMV
[18:49:42] <rayh> That shouldn't be to bad. He might get a brief lecture about switching to his "better" systems.
[18:49:46] <SWPadnos> heh - right :)
[18:50:18] <rayh> Just have alSMT tell Fred that Ray Henry sent him.
[18:50:34] <alSMT> i'll do that
[18:50:37] <rayh> That'll get fred going big time.
[18:50:53] <alSMT> all in good fun
[18:51:19] <SWPadnos> I have a friend who uses deskCNC, but went out of his way to buy it from someone else because he didn't like the treatment he got at IMServ
[18:51:20] <rayh> Yep. Last time I saw Fred he told me is was obsolete.
[18:51:31] <SWPadnos> is was?
[18:51:48] <rayh> i was obsolete.
[18:51:57] <SWPadnos> oh, you. interesting comment, that :)
[18:52:13] <rayh> I knew it already but wasn't certain I wanted him to tell me that.
[18:52:13] <SWPadnos> "you are obsolete" - what a statement
[18:52:14] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:53:50] <alSMT> on second thought maybe i don't want there probe
[18:53:54] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:54:53] <rayh> Oh I think it's a good probe for what it is.
[18:55:15] <alSMT> yah
[19:04:30] <Unit41> hahahaha
[19:04:40] <Unit41> got ma new suse RT kernel
[19:04:52] <anonimasu> nice
[19:04:52] <anonimasu> :)
[19:05:20] <Unit41> finally alsa will work properly and emc can run
[19:06:10] <SWPadnos> unrelated to each other, but still good :)
[19:23:19] <JymmmEMC> I'm surprised that nobody else sells a probe
[19:24:48] <rayh> Renishaw does!
[19:24:59] <skunkworks_> riiiight
[19:25:18] <JymmmEMC> Yes rayh, you ARE obsolete and have been replaced by a 17yo McDonlads "Do you want frys with that?" punk ass kid.
[19:25:26] <rayh> Yup. You go the irony of that 'eh.
[19:25:45] <JymmmEMC> rayh: =)
[19:25:54] <rayh> he he.
[19:26:05] <JymmmEMC> rayh: Eh, fuck em if they can't take a joke
[19:26:09] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek, I can't seem to figure out how your new probing algorithm works (http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/smartprobe.png), I'll assume the first row started from the left, how did it know how far to go up before going right? it seems to intelligently choose height based on how far it needs to go, and I don't see how it can know that with a Z-only probe
[19:26:45] <JymmmEMC> lerneaen_hydra: you forgot the 12 other axis
[19:27:09] <JymmmEMC> lerneaen_hydra: THEN it all makes sense =)
[19:27:21] <lerneaen_hydra> yes most true
[19:27:29] <lerneaen_hydra> especially with renishaws probe
[19:27:55] <JymmmEMC> There is the probe that someone made using a pcb and plastic and ball bearings.
[19:28:03] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: It goes UP until the probe opens again, then LEFT or RIGHT until it contacts again or until it reaches the next desired X coordinate
[19:28:18] <jepler> the probe can be triggered by contact on any side, not just the bottom
[19:28:21] <rayh> I have a set of the papers from which the renishaw probe was designed. Speaking of obsolete!
[19:28:34] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler, it would seem to me that the amount of UP varies from probe to probe
[19:28:43] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, it triggers on the side too
[19:29:06] <JymmmEMC> jepler: only one axis can be in motion at a time during probing, right?
[19:29:34] <rayh> The old EMC routines allowed for three.
[19:29:47] <JymmmEMC> rayh: using what probe?
[19:29:56] <jepler> you can move any machine axis during a probing move
[19:30:15] <JymmmEMC> jepler: but only one axis at a time, or no?
[19:30:34] <jepler> no
[19:30:43] <jepler> you can move up to 9 axes
[19:30:47] <jepler> but at least one
[19:31:37] <jepler> so for instance you could improve the smartprobe algorithm by having a guess at the local slope of the item being probed, and instead of going left or right, go along the guessed slope in X and Z simultaneously
[19:32:07] <rayh> We were probing with a hexapod motors with 6 but using world coords and head tilt.
[19:37:18] <Unit41> double flip tripple side retarded face plant
[19:37:40] <Unit41> * Unit41 the crowd goes wiiiild
[19:38:46] <skunkworks_> If I where to make one - it would be the 6 ball-bearing one. Looks cool.
[20:02:21] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, is 2.2.x out?
[20:02:34] <awallin> yep, 2-3 days ago
[20:02:39] <lerneaen_hydra> sweet
[20:03:20] <Guest718> where have you been? don't you live and breath emc2?
[20:03:24] <Guest718> come on now
[20:03:40] <SWPadnos> please, go brush your teeth if you're breathing EMC2
[20:03:47] <Guest718> Guest718 is now known as skunkworks___
[20:03:47] <lerneaen_hydra> ah, I fear I've fallen asleep at my post
[20:03:51] <lerneaen_hydra> haha
[20:03:56] <lerneaen_hydra> the member is unmasked
[20:04:13] <SWPadnos> please, leave your member masked
[20:04:15] <skunkworks___> * skunkworks___ has internet issues.
[20:04:21] <lerneaen_hydra> O_o
[20:04:22] <skunkworks___> yeck
[20:21:34] <jlmjvm> has anyone had any problems with emc2.2 on late model amd systems?
[20:23:44] <jepler> I run it on AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2600+ without trouble, but that system is a few years old now
[20:24:18] <jlmjvm> one is a socket 754 2.2gh,the other is socket am2 2.0gh,one bout 6 mos old,1 2 weeks old
[20:24:44] <jepler> what is the problem you're having?
[20:25:18] <jlmjvm> both had to have the base task period changed from 10000 to 20000 to keep it from reporting a realtime error on startup
[20:26:24] <jepler> emc 2.2 reports realtime errors that emc 2.1 did not report.
[20:26:59] <jlmjvm> problem is i dont get enough steps with the slower period on the new board
[20:27:05] <jlmjvm> oh really
[20:27:18] <jepler> specifically, the rtai function rt_task_wait_period() provides a return value which says whether the requested realtime deadline was met. emc 2.1 did not report when this failed, but emc 2.2 does.
[20:27:37] <jlmjvm> thats the error
[20:28:07] <jlmjvm> please tell me it can be turned off
[20:28:30] <jepler> not without rebuilding from source
[20:29:31] <jlmjvm> im finishing a mill monday,dont want to have to turn off the error everytime it starts up
[20:30:06] <jlmjvm> will just use 2.1.7 for now
[20:30:19] <jepler> in src/rtapi/rtai_rtapi.c, change "if(result != 0)" to "if(0)" and the "Unexpected realtime delay on task #" message will not be shown.
[20:30:23] <lerneaen_hydra> 2.2.x has the stepper step/dir speed enhancement right+
[20:30:29] <lerneaen_hydra> s/+/?
[20:30:31] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: "doublestep"? yes.
[20:30:43] <jlmjvm> i forgot about that
[20:30:43] <lerneaen_hydra> yes, that's what it was called
[20:30:45] <lerneaen_hydra> nice
[20:31:02] <skunkworks___> It thought it was called doublefreq
[20:31:14] <skunkworks___> skunkworks___ is now known as skunkworks_
[20:31:26] <jepler> you can call it whatever you like
[20:31:33] <skunkworks_> heh
[20:31:39] <skunkworks_> george
[20:31:40] <jlmjvm> lemmee try that
[20:36:53] <jlmjvm> jepler:i cant find a src folder,or were you talking about something else
[20:38:23] <skunkworks_> I think you have to build a RIP
[20:39:15] <jlmjvm> if the double freq works that would solve my problems on the new machine,can lower the base task period so the error wont show,but then i dont have quite enough step pulses
[20:40:15] <jlmjvm> dont want to build a RIP
[20:40:48] <skunkworks_> It worked for me. Takes a bit to setup - I think using the stepconfg would be the easiest. It is fixed now I think
[20:41:12] <jlmjvm> you can do it from stepconf?
[20:41:15] <skunkworks_> in 2.2.1
[20:42:00] <jlmjvm> i got an update yesterday,and my stepconf will open now
[20:42:12] <jlmjvm> havent used it yet
[20:42:32] <jlmjvm> lemmee check it out
[20:42:53] <skunkworks_> I have not used it either. but I think it is the easiest way to get doublestep setup. It will do it automatically for you.
[20:43:27] <alSMT> work great had to try it
[20:43:47] <alSMT> thanks jepler
[20:44:11] <skunkworks_> alSMT: how much faster was your top speed with doublstep?
[20:44:29] <alSMT> 40%
[20:45:48] <skunkworks_> nice
[20:45:46] <alSMT> maybe 38ipm to 57
[20:47:43] <alSMT> i should say went from 38 to57
[20:51:53] <SWPadnos> sounds like 50% to me
[20:52:12] <jlmjvm> does stepconf have a way to use an output for a spindle brake?
[20:53:03] <SWPadnos> stepconf generates a set of ini and hal files. if there's something you need that isn't supported, you can add it later with a text editor
[20:53:58] <jlmjvm> k
[21:01:17] <alSMT> exactly 50%
[21:01:54] <SWPadnos> indeed - that's why I said that ;)
[21:02:00] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos does simple math quickly ;)
[21:02:12] <SWPadnos> and sometimes accurately too!
[21:03:42] <alSMT> I ran a lot higher base before 2.2 realtime delay that i didn't get before the udated error mess.
[21:04:25] <SWPadnos> right. I suspect that the system operates the same as before, except now it tells you there could be a problem
[21:04:53] <alSMT> faster rapid and more responce from the gui
[21:05:44] <alSMT> very happy should get rid of onboard graphic sone
[21:05:47] <SWPadnos> yep - the longer base period should help with "responsiveness"
[21:10:29] <jlmjvm> would this be correct ? net spindle-brake=> parport.0.pin-16-out
[21:11:26] <SWPadnos> that is syntactically correct, but it doesn't connect the signal-brake pin to the motion controller brake output
[21:11:44] <SWPadnos> I don't know the exact name, but it would be similar to this:
[21:11:48] <jlmjvm> was gonna say its not working
[21:12:13] <SWPadnos> net brake-out motion.spindle-brake => parport.0.pin-16-out
[21:12:35] <SWPadnos> it's net <signal name> <pin name> <pin name> ...
[21:14:29] <jlmjvm> thanks,woked great
[21:19:24] <SWPadnos> cool
[21:22:33] <dmess> you the man SWP
[21:23:12] <SWPadnos> sometimes
[21:26:25] <dmess> ususally
[21:26:34] <dmess> opps
[21:30:58] <jlmjvm> SWPadnos:can bad memory cause latency problems
[21:31:45] <jlmjvm> or is that vidoe and cpu only?
[21:31:50] <jlmjvm> video
[21:32:07] <SWPadnos> bad memory usually cuases problems much worse than latency - like spontaneous reboots and crashes
[21:33:05] <jlmjvm> k
[21:45:10] <skunkworks_> Guest988: hi
[21:46:19] <jepler> skunkworks_: way to scare off the new guy
[21:46:56] <edouard_t> Hi.
[21:47:24] <skunkworks_> edouard_t: hi
[21:47:30] <edouard_t> A long time ago (too long) I looked at the EMC project.
[21:47:37] <skunkworks_> jepler: that happens a lot.
[21:47:44] <edouard_t> Discarded it...
[21:47:58] <edouard_t> And wrote the beremiz project (www.beremiz.org)
[21:48:35] <edouard_t> Now, it is time to collaborate for industrial free software.
[21:49:07] <edouard_t> I'm also author of the canfestival project (www.canfestival.org)
[21:49:20] <jepler> hi
[21:49:32] <jepler> are you related to Francois TISSERANT?
[21:50:00] <edouard_t> I dont think so.
[21:51:01] <edouard_t> All together we can do : G-Code, whole IEC-61131, CANOpen.
[21:51:11] <jepler> (he recently started helping the emc project by translating some of our user interfaces and documentation into french)
[21:51:44] <edouard_t> So, vous parlez Fra├žais.
[21:51:49] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:52:01] <SWPadnos> nous parlons english ici
[21:52:18] <edouard_t> J'avais understood. sorry.
[21:52:25] <SWPadnos> heh - pas de probleme ;)
[21:53:15] <jepler> several of us can understand a bit of french, but not at a technical level
[21:53:30] <SWPadnos> it's not "against the rules" to speak other languages, but most of the programmers are fluent in english only (I'm sad to say)
[21:53:41] <edouard_t> So, the beremiz project is a IEC-61131 IDE. With SFC (graphcet), LD (ladder diagram) FBD (Fonction block Diagram) ST (structured text) and IL (instruction list)
[21:54:05] <SWPadnos> can it output to a classicladded CLP file?
[21:54:10] <SWPadnos> classicladder
[21:54:17] <SWPadnos> or is it also an actual PLC controller?
[21:54:48] <edouard_t> No. It generate textual ST/IL/SFC and then compile it to ansi-C code
[21:54:56] <SWPadnos> oh, interesting
[21:54:59] <jepler> edouard_t: are you at all familiar with emc2's hal yet? It's the method we use to connect different components (real-time and non-real-time) together.
[21:55:14] <edouard_t> not at all.
[21:55:25] <edouard_t> I did re-invent the wheel.
[21:55:31] <SWPadnos> the image links on the beremiz.org site seem to be broken
[21:55:33] <edouard_t> (as usual)
[21:55:39] <SWPadnos> on the PLCOpen editor page
[21:55:47] <skunkworks_> emc2 is very different from the original emc
[21:55:49] <edouard_t> Hmm...
[21:56:11] <jepler> yes, on page http://beremiz.org/The%20PLCOpen%20Editor/5.html if I left-click the image below "- Configurations, Resources and Tasks" it is not found
[21:56:33] <edouard_t> All missing images are in the slides in the dowloadable PDF
[21:56:44] <SWPadnos> ok - just thought I'd let you know
[21:57:06] <edouard_t> It will be fixed tomorrow.
[21:57:33] <edouard_t> At that time, just right click and 'show image'
[21:58:19] <edouard_t> OGG video on beremiz.org have to be seen with vlc or mplayer.
[21:58:22] <jepler> edouard_t: one way I see to work together is if your ansi C code can compile into a hal component, which communiates with other modules through pins of 4 types: bit, s32, u32, and float. To a C program, access to pins looks something like this: *(data->pinname) = newvalue; /* to assign a new value */ localvariable = *(data->pinname); /* to read the current value */
[21:58:34] <jepler> there are just a few API calls needed to set up "data" in a shared memory area
[21:59:08] <jepler> and give names to all the pins
[21:59:09] <SWPadnos> another would be to replace the sometimes unusable CL editor ...
[21:59:18] <SWPadnos> (at least unusable for me)
[21:59:31] <edouard_t> We have also made a kind if HAL.
[21:59:51] <SWPadnos> it should be just another output target to make a clp file instead of a c file
[22:00:43] <edouard_t> my opinion is that the G-CODE related stuff of EMC could be easily be a kind of "plugin" of the PLC
[22:01:17] <SWPadnos> it's not that simple, if you take into acocunt some of the premises of how EMC communicates between its different parts
[22:01:39] <edouard_t> There is no stcreenshot of the beremiz plugin manager at that time.
[22:02:11] <jepler> beremiz.pdf is giving my evince (ubuntu dapper) fits .. it's stuck at 100% CPU and won't display page 3 :(
[22:02:17] <edouard_t> Hard to explain the way component are seen in our IEC-61131 paradigm without some drawings.
[22:02:41] <edouard_t> Known bug. Use acroread. Sorry.
[22:02:48] <jepler> we'll each have to learn more about the other project, then find out how to work together.
[22:03:01] <SWPadnos> yep
[22:03:16] <jepler> you've made contact at a good time: we've just released a new stable version and are starting to work on new features again.
[22:03:26] <edouard_t> exactly. I have to give a try to the lifeCD.
[22:03:42] <edouard_t> Have you ever considered CANOpen as motion control bus for emc ?
[22:03:46] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure that has been updated with the latest version
[22:03:58] <anonimasu> edouard_t: can is expensive..
[22:04:00] <anonimasu> that's the catch..
[22:04:00] <SWPadnos> we've talked about a number of possible protocols, but none are implemented
[22:04:10] <anonimasu> I guess
[22:04:24] <SWPadnos> CAN, modbus, ethercat, miscellaneous USB or other serial protocols, RTNet, etc
[22:04:31] <anonimasu> yep
[22:04:41] <jepler> the live cd still has an older version (2.1.6, I think), but stuff like HAL is pretty much the same in 2.1.6 as in 2.2.1.
[22:05:20] <edouard_t> So, except parport, what is used to control operative part ?
[22:05:30] <fenn> a0hah anonimasu is calling CAN expensive
[22:05:33] <anonimasu> edouard_t: motion control cards and such things
[22:05:39] <fenn> but a $200 probe is cheap
[22:05:55] <SWPadnos> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,11/Itemid,7/lang,en/
[22:06:16] <SWPadnos> That doesn't look like a complete list to me
[22:06:19] <SWPadnos> but it may be
[22:06:41] <fenn> edouard_t: from what i gather CAN may be too slow for motion control
[22:07:15] <anonimasu> it's being done all the time with commercial hardware..
[22:07:17] <edouard_t> down to 1ms sychronous cycle time for 10 axis.
[22:07:28] <SWPadnos> CAN can go up into the negabits / second range, I think
[22:07:34] <SWPadnos> or megabits
[22:07:35] <jepler> edouard_t: besides software step generation on the PC parport (by far the most frequently used option), existing options include PCI and ISA cards as well as parport cards that use the EPP protocol. Depending on the card or board, they may ultimately output step&direction, pwm, or analog; in the case of servo motors, they typically take quadrature feedback inputs.
[22:07:37] <anonimasu> 1Mbit/s
[22:07:46] <anonimasu> or well, faster too.. probably if your hardware supports it..
[22:08:03] <SWPadnos> or slower, depending on how long your wires are ;)
[22:08:06] <anonimasu> though can isnt guaranteed to be realtime..
[22:08:08] <jepler> anything that fits the hal realtime model (accept a position command at the servo rate, typically 1ms; return a feedback position at the same rate) can work in principle
[22:08:25] <anonimasu> there's some attempts like rtcan..
[22:08:52] <anonimasu> with guaranteed timing..
[22:09:09] <jepler> but because all the included drivers are realtime-layer-agnostic (using our homebrew realtime API layer), it is hard to take advantage of advantaged things like rtnet, rtusb, and so forth -- for the most part, the existing drivers just bit-bang very simple hardware interfaces
[22:09:22] <jepler> *advanced* things, that is
[22:09:26] <edouard_t> the problem is tha error message may break CAN determinism
[22:09:39] <SWPadnos> well, there
[22:10:03] <SWPadnos> well, there's also a conceptual problem with using external smart controllers/drives - EMC likes to be "in control"
[22:10:11] <edouard_t> so, you depend on good wiring, with no transmission errors.
[22:10:32] <SWPadnos> with feedback coming to the EMC trajectory planner on the PC, which then sends out new velocty / position commands
[22:11:07] <anonimasu> fenn: Any hardware with "can" interface costs a shitload of money..
[22:11:08] <SWPadnos> so as jepler said, it should be possible to use just about anything that can send feedback and accept commands at the EMC servo rate
[22:11:14] <fenn> here's the mailing list post i was remembering http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/4147/match=can+mbit
[22:11:35] <edouard_t> I worked for a company (where i developed CanFestival) hwo does RT motion control with CANOpen, without problems.
[22:11:49] <jepler> and of course you can always lie to emc, by looping back commanded to actual position, then doing whatever it is you want with the commanded position
[22:12:20] <fenn> (PPMC and UPC are motion control cards)
[22:13:04] <jepler> ooh the plc editor is in Python? count me in!
[22:13:06] <dmess> crap.... the wife just wiped out the Malibu into a poll..../...
[22:13:09] <anonimasu> edouard_t: the thing to remember is that most people that use emc are people with sane budgets ;)
[22:13:20] <jepler> dmess: I hope she's OK
[22:13:33] <dmess> she is ... the cars not
[22:13:43] <SWPadnos> 10 axes should be able to survive on 80 bytes per update - 4 in and 4 out. Add in some digital I/O and you might have 100 bytes. I think Jon's calculations may have been wrong
[22:14:02] <dmess> just more to add to my scrap pile..
[22:14:17] <SWPadnos> but think of all the servos you'll be able to scrounge
[22:14:21] <SWPadnos> (sorry :) )
[22:14:52] <dmess> pls.. be carefull with 7 + axes systems
[22:15:01] <SWPadnos> I'm careful with 0-axis systems
[22:15:22] <dmess> the good.. your 1 of me
[22:15:37] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:15:38] <jepler> bbl
[22:15:59] <jepler> edouard_t: nice to meet you, and I'm excited to hear about your projects
[22:16:00] <SWPadnos> dropping a brick on your toe still hurts, it doesn't have to be a meat grinder to do damage
[22:16:16] <dmess> have you beeen wrong more times than correct
[22:16:28] <SWPadnos> no
[22:16:30] <SWPadnos> yes
[22:16:32] <SWPadnos> I don't know
[22:16:37] <anonimasu> I'd be interested in running can to talk to io modules..
[22:16:42] <edouard_t> jepler: :-)
[22:16:49] <anonimasu> denetively
[22:16:56] <dmess> the GO with the flow bro... ;)
[22:17:15] <SWPadnos> I decline to answer on the grounds that I may incriminate myself
[22:17:29] <dmess> as I
[22:17:32] <SWPadnos> (now if that isn't a confession, I don't know what is :) )
[22:19:32] <edouard_t> does emc bind with comedi (http://www.comedi.org/) ?
[22:19:46] <eric__u> no, but it could
[22:19:52] <fenn> it should
[22:20:02] <fenn> er, it could and it should, but it doesn't
[22:20:11] <edouard_t> hmmm...
[22:20:38] <edouard_t> We are working on such an absraction layer
[22:21:26] <edouard_t> it will let IEC-PLC exchangr at the same with all the different IO modules plugged in.
[22:22:47] <edouard_t> at that time, are planned CANOpen (done), comedi, ethercat (with EPL), powerlink, ... and any kind of modules (i.e. G-Code interpreter ?)
[22:22:56] <edouard_t> PLCOpen motion control blocks will also be implemented.
[22:23:06] <dmess> i work on problemed components.... so what do i know....
[22:23:45] <jlmjvm> i upgraded the new computer to 2.2 again,did a new config with stepconf,added the brake,all looks good,no rt error on startup
[22:24:21] <jlmjvm> very nice setup feature
[22:25:50] <jlmjvm> is this still a valid command setp parport.0.pin-16-out-invert 1
[22:28:15] <Unit41> ya
[22:31:42] <lerneaen_hydra> what's the boards stance on gpl2/3?
[22:33:16] <fenn> the additions in gpl3 are mostly irrelevant to emc aren't they? but it certainly seems much more "legalese" than v2
[22:34:14] <lerneaen_hydra> it would be applicable to specialized IO hardware if I've understood it correctly, though the hardware would hardly use EMC code
[22:37:13] <fenn> it's too bad they arent compatible with each other
[22:38:01] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah, true
[22:38:44] <fenn> lots of things say "or later" though, fortunately
[22:41:26] <cradek> lerneaen_hydra: I don't know about the board, but I personally think we can't switch to gpl3 without a huge ordeal
[22:41:43] <cradek> I don't know enough about gpl3 yet to know whether it would be any benefit
[22:41:57] <lerneaen_hydra> lots of other applications that would also need to change?
[22:42:17] <cradek> a lot of files say gpl2
[22:42:24] <cradek> a lot of original authors are no longer involved
[22:42:57] <cradek> => ordeal
[22:43:37] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, and not gpl2 or later
[22:44:04] <cradek> right
[22:52:21] <edouard_t> EMC HAL seems to be in conflict with iEC-61131-3 configuration/ressources/tasks concepts. I have to go deeper into the manual to understand basic concepts.
[22:53:45] <fenn> hal is "parallel" and flow-charts are sequential?
[22:54:12] <edouard_t> not exactly.
[22:55:18] <edouard_t> in IEC-61131, tasks (what seems to ba called threads in HAL) already exist, and are defined in the PLC program.
[22:56:24] <edouard_t> in our project programs are compiled. There is no dynamic task/ressource configuration creation.
[22:56:40] <fenn> it helps to think of hal as an electronic breadboard simulator
[22:57:23] <fenn> edouard_t: is that a result of iec-61131 or just your implementation?
[22:58:23] <edouard_t> in some sense iec do not define anything on this.
[22:58:44] <anonimasu> edouard_t: hal isnt iec-61131-3..
[22:59:12] <SWPadnos> although HAL can be restructured dynamically, in general a system is left alone once loaded and configured (and the HAL configuration can be locked if that's desired)
[22:59:46] <edouard_t> I know that. But it would be very interesting to make it collaborate seamlesly with IEC based PLC.
[23:00:07] <fenn> your PLC can simply export hal pins and functions...
[23:00:13] <anonimasu> edouard_t: i think the best thing would be to run a softplc and export hal pins to it..
[23:01:18] <edouard_t> In some sense, it would also be nice to see all HAL pins inside the PLCOpenEditor don't you think ?
[23:01:43] <fenn> yes, but it might get confusing if you used both systems at once
[23:01:48] <anonimasu> Yes certainly
[23:02:41] <edouard_t> unification is the only good solution.
[23:03:05] <fenn> you will be assimilated. resistance is futile.
[23:03:18] <anonimasu> edouard_t: unification needs a solid standard..
[23:03:53] <SWPadnos> also, it's nearly impossible to see the exact HAL pins you'll have unless you ar running on the target system, with the target hardware installed
[23:03:55] <edouard_t> try asking about "fddi" on #osadl.
[23:04:07] <anonimasu> osadl?
[23:04:19] <edouard_t> Open Source Automation Development Lab
[23:04:22] <anonimasu> ah..
[23:04:23] <SWPadnos> some drivers detect the installed hardware and modify the HAL pins they export based on what's found
[23:04:52] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, there's no way to simulate that at the moment (but that is on my list of things to think about)
[23:05:20] <anonimasu> edouard_t: I still think hal should be hal and the plc should be the plc..
[23:05:30] <anonimasu> and keep them well separated..
[23:06:13] <edouard_t> IEC-61131-3 is about PLC programmation languages. IEC-61131 is more general.
[23:06:30] <anonimasu> yep
[23:06:39] <anonimasu> I know ^_^
[23:06:49] <anonimasu> it
[23:07:06] <anonimasu> err it's too bad emc dosent have a plc that does that kind of stuff..
[23:07:14] <SWPadnos> other than CL
[23:07:27] <edouard_t> for sur it will have it soon :-)
[23:07:33] <anonimasu> I dont like cl.. :p
[23:07:41] <SWPadnos> me either, but it is there ;)
[23:07:54] <anonimasu> *orders a codesys runtime for linux*
[23:08:17] <edouard_t> I know Marc le Douarin personnaly. I'm telling.
[23:08:22] <edouard_t> :-)
[23:08:47] <anonimasu> hehe
[23:09:16] <edouard_t> To know more about OSADL Feild Bus Framwork : http://www.osadl.org/Fieldbus-framework.fieldbus-framework.0.html
[23:09:31] <anonimasu> oh I can live with the classic part..
[23:09:34] <anonimasu> just not with ladder.
[23:09:50] <fenn> FBD looks a lot like HAL to me
[23:10:08] <anonimasu> yep
[23:11:04] <fenn> i think the schematics would get large very fast though, if you drew everything out like that
[23:11:13] <anonimasu> well, you have workspaces.. usually
[23:11:25] <anonimasu> so you dont stick everything at one place..
[23:11:38] <anonimasu> and you can nest fbd's..
[23:12:22] <fenn> anonimasu: is there a concept of namespaces?
[23:12:33] <edouard_t> Yes.
[23:12:33] <fenn> er, hang on, let me figure out what i'm asking
[23:12:44] <anonimasu> *waits*
[23:12:53] <fenn> ok, say you have 2 parports
[23:13:04] <fenn> one is at 0x378 the other is at 0x478
[23:13:14] <anonimasu> ok
[23:13:22] <fenn> hal labels the first one parport.0 and the second parport.1
[23:13:34] <fenn> then you link pins to 0 and to 1
[23:14:05] <anonimasu> yes
[23:14:07] <fenn> if you chop those up into different workspaces, is there any way to specify which parport you're linking to?
[23:14:18] <anonimasu> yes..
[23:14:29] <anonimasu> you connect blocks with lines(data paths) I guess you could call them
[23:14:58] <anonimasu> fenn: the thing is that there are 20 ways to do it..
[23:15:14] <fenn> that doesn't sound good
[23:15:50] <anonimasu> it's the beauty of it..
[23:16:18] <anonimasu> you can limit what can access things if you want to..
[23:16:32] <anonimasu> or export the pins as globals..
[23:16:35] <edouard_t> IEC defines directly represented variables.
[23:16:58] <edouard_t> %IB0.1.2.3 for a input byte
[23:17:18] <edouard_t> %QX2.1 for output bit
[23:17:32] <alex_joni> who was looking for a probe earlier?
[23:17:40] <fenn> alSMT
[23:17:41] <edouard_t> %ML1. for memory long
[23:18:00] <edouard_t> ?
[23:18:09] <fenn> alSMT was looking for a probe :)
[23:18:15] <alex_joni> fenn: yeah, I got that..
[23:18:19] <alex_joni> he's not around anymore though
[23:18:26] <alex_joni> found this: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28308
[23:18:46] <alex_joni> fenn: maybe you can pass it on, if he shows up again
[23:19:07] <anonimasu> fenn: http://www.oacg.co.uk/plcopen.pdf
[23:20:47] <anonimasu> edouard_t: yeah, but it depends on what tools you use.. if you take sigmatek as a example their hardware are very modularized
[23:20:53] <anonimasu> tools/plc..
[23:21:26] <anonimasu> edouard_t: they dont export any globals, because it wouldnt work out, if you have 40 modules in a system..
[23:23:20] <edouard_t> That is what we solve with our plugin framework.
[23:23:24] <fenn> structured text is ugly :\
[23:23:47] <anonimasu> hehe, you get used to it..
[23:23:54] <edouard_t> I know, if wrote parts of the compiler. But it is standard.
[23:24:17] <fenn> there has been a lot of talk of integrating all of emc's configuration (including .hal files) into a single .xml file
[23:24:45] <fenn> perhaps it would be more useful to translate .xml into structured text than to write a special hal interpreter
[23:25:00] <anonimasu> :D
[23:25:01] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:25:29] <edouard_t> we map directly represented as tree leaves, and all tree nodes are plugins or sub plugin instances.
[23:25:56] <edouard_t> hu... sure that none did understood that.
[23:26:11] <anonimasu> yeah it seems a bit out of context :)
[23:26:18] <anonimasu> sorry ^_^
[23:27:07] <fenn> %Q... is an end node?
[23:27:17] <edouard_t> I think the explanation of this concept is out of the scope of this channel.
[23:27:43] <anonimasu> fenn: he's talking about how the compiler handles memory..
[23:28:03] <edouard_t> I'll publish a paper soon about all this. If you are interested into this please register to the beremis project annouce mailing list.
[23:28:17] <anonimasu> fenn: And how parts of code get's mapped..
[23:28:34] <anonimasu> got a homepage for it?
[23:28:39] <fenn> ok, i've never written a compiler but i can imagine
[23:28:44] <edouard_t> https://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=201091
[23:29:27] <anonimasu> ok
[23:29:38] <edouard_t> Sorry. I have to sleep. Midnight and a half... Too tired to keep concentrate. By
[23:29:49] <anonimasu> night
[23:29:59] <fenn> me too
[23:30:40] <anonimasu> I feel like im going to dream in st.. tonight :p