#emc | Logs for 2007-11-07

[00:00:31] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: any luck?
[00:03:43] <MASEngr> So, when you do the upgrade, what else do you have to do to switch? Do you have to run an install script or anything?
[00:04:14] <MASEngr> I followed the instructions on the wiki, but now when I start up, all I get is the splash screen.
[00:04:17] <alex_joni> MASEngr: just this: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.2
[00:04:28] <alex_joni> MASEngr: next you need to update the configs
[00:04:37] <alex_joni> according to the link on the bottom of that page
[00:05:17] <MASEngr> Those files haven't moved, have they?
[00:05:26] <alex_joni> which ones?
[00:05:34] <MASEngr> They seem to be identical and in the same location.
[00:05:39] <MASEngr> The config files.
[00:05:46] <alex_joni> the files in ~/ are not touched
[00:05:47] <SWPadnos> their contents need to change somewhat
[00:06:08] <alex_joni> only the sample configs in /etc/emc2/sample-configs have been changed by the install script
[00:06:10] <SWPadnos> you need to change the configuration, not the location or name of the configuration files
[00:06:27] <alex_joni> probably all you need to do is copy a new var file to your folder
[00:06:31] <alex_joni> and name it accordingly
[00:06:40] <SWPadnos> linkpp could be an issue too
[00:08:01] <alex_joni> halcmd: linkpp parport.0.pin-01-out parport.0.pin-10-in
[00:08:01] <alex_joni> <stdin>:1: Warning: linkpp command is deprecated, use 'net'
[00:08:11] <alex_joni> (that's what I get with 2.2.0)
[00:08:24] <SWPadnos> OK. I guess it's CVS that errors out?
[00:08:24] <alex_joni> it does work though
[00:08:47] <SWPadnos> ok, I thought there were some errors reported
[00:08:48] <alex_joni> no idea :D
[00:08:54] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:09:01] <alex_joni> didn't see it error yet
[00:10:00] <MASEngr> Alex_Joni: Wait, are you talking to me, or looking for help yourself?
[00:10:17] <alex_joni> MASEngr: not really looking for help :)
[00:11:53] <alex_joni> MASEngr: you need to copy a .var file from /etc/emc2/sample-configs/stepper/stepper.var to your config folder
[00:14:22] <MASEngr> Okaaaay.
[00:14:35] <alex_joni> MASEngr: sounds complicated?
[00:15:23] <MASEngr> No, I just didn't have that file before.
[00:15:38] <alex_joni> maybe it was called differently
[00:15:49] <alex_joni> but there must be a .var file in your config folder
[00:16:16] <alex_joni> the new one must overwrite the old one (same name), or else it will not work
[00:16:47] <SWPadnos> note that any coordinate system offsets will be lost when you overwrite that file
[00:18:18] <jlmjvm> alex_joni:no luck yet
[00:18:27] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: same error?
[00:18:36] <jlmjvm> lemmee paste
[00:19:51] <MASEngr> All I'm getting is the splash screen, then nothing. When I restart, it says, "EMC2 is still running. Restart?"
[00:20:02] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/764184
[00:20:18] <alex_joni> MASEngr: open a terminal (applications->accessories->terminal)
[00:20:19] <SWPadnos> MASEngr, try running from a terminal. that should give you a meaningful error message
[00:20:26] <alex_joni> and run emc by typing 'emc'
[00:21:21] <SWPadnos> jlmjvm, you also need a new var file
[00:21:25] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: can you pastebin the output of "ls -al /home/jlmjvm/emc2/configs/stepper" ?
[00:21:39] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: he already replaced it, if I understood him correctly..
[00:21:48] <SWPadnos> doesn't look it, from that error message
[00:22:10] <jlmjvm> didnt replace the var file yet,only the emc.nml
[00:23:53] <SWPadnos> replace the var file, then try running again
[00:23:59] <MASEngr> Okay, I now have some info. The linkpp command is deprecated, and I should be using net instead.
[00:24:01] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/764187
[00:24:16] <MASEngr> Also, the configuration is now out of range. Did the ranges change?
[00:24:21] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure what's wrong with the nml file, but EMC certainly won't start without the var file being right
[00:24:26] <alex_joni> configuration out of range?
[00:24:29] <SWPadnos> argh
[00:25:08] <SWPadnos> parameter 5221 out of range?
[00:25:17] <MASEngr> Sorry, Coordinate system index parameter 5220 out of range.
[00:25:23] <SWPadnos> right - 5220 ;)
[00:25:24] <MASEngr> I'm using sneakernet to cut and paste.
[00:25:30] <MASEngr> Sorry about the lag.
[00:25:39] <SWPadnos> is the EMC machine on the net?
[00:25:51] <alex_joni> MASEngr: that means the var file is the old one..
[00:25:57] <MASEngr> Yeah, that would be easier, wouldn't it.
[00:25:59] <SWPadnos> yep ;)
[00:26:27] <alex_joni> MASEngr: you need to replace your old var file with a new one from /etc/emc2/sample-configs..
[00:26:45] <Adam1> Adam1 is now known as MASEngr2
[00:27:16] <MASEngr2> There we go.
[00:27:19] <SWPadnos> yay!
[00:27:31] <alex_joni> see.. wasn't that hard :D
[00:27:48] <MASEngr2> I was getting instructions via a different machine while this one was being worked on.
[00:28:09] <MASEngr2> It wasn't *total* clulessness. ;)
[00:29:25] <MASEngr2> Anyway, yeah, the errors I'm getting on startup are: Starting EMC2...
[00:29:25] <MASEngr2> m5i20_io.hal:83: Warning: linkpp command is deprecated, use 'net'
[00:29:25] <MASEngr2> emc/task/emctask.cc 312: interp_error: Coordinate system index parameter 5220 out of range
[00:29:25] <MASEngr2> Coordinate system index parameter 5220 out of range
[00:29:25] <MASEngr2> emc/task/emctaskmain.cc 2629: can't initialize interpreter
[00:30:05] <alex_joni> MASEngr: whenever you see the coordinate system .. out of range message, it means you need to replace the damn var file
[00:31:26] <MASEngr2> Right. And the stepper.var you pointed to earlier is a known good configuration.
[00:31:41] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: your stepper.var is dated from today.. I don't think you replaced it yet
[00:31:44] <alex_joni> MASEngr: correct
[00:32:02] <alex_joni> (actually any of the var files in the sample configs are just as good)
[00:32:13] <jlmjvm> you have to remove stepper var and replace it with emc var
[00:32:34] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: that depends on how it's called inside his config
[00:32:41] <MASEngr2> Okay, that error is gone. Now I've got: Starting EMC2...
[00:32:41] <MASEngr2> m5i20_io.hal:83: Warning: linkpp command is deprecated, use 'net'
[00:32:41] <MASEngr2> emc/task/emctask.cc 312: interp_error: Unable to open file
[00:32:41] <MASEngr2> Unable to open file
[00:32:41] <MASEngr2> emc/task/emctaskmain.cc 2629: can't initialize interpreter
[00:32:47] <jlmjvm> thats what i just did
[00:33:18] <jlmjvm> thats what im getting now
[00:33:34] <MASEngr2> Wait, why I am asking for help with that?
[00:33:45] <alex_joni> MASEngr: what's your config folder called?
[00:33:50] <alex_joni> is it m5i20 ?
[00:33:49] <SWPadnos> who owns the var and/or nml files in your config dirs?
[00:34:05] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/764200
[00:34:35] <MASEngr2> Who, me? It's a 5120, yes. The folder is called m5120
[00:34:48] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: a reboot might help
[00:34:56] <jlmjvm> k
[00:35:01] <SWPadnos> MASEngr2, can you pastebin the output of ls -Al in that dir?
[00:35:03] <alex_joni> MASEngr: ok, for you the var file is actually called m5i20.var
[00:35:21] <alex_joni> so you need to replace that one
[00:36:24] <MASEngr2> Same content, I think. (I renamed the stepper.var to m5120.var after a cursory glance.)
[00:36:33] <MASEngr2> But I've replaced just to make sure.
[00:36:39] <alex_joni> m5iiiii not 1
[00:37:10] <MASEngr2> *headdesk*
[00:37:22] <SWPadnos> head, meet desk
[00:37:23] <alex_joni> ok.. just pointing out :P
[00:37:27] <SWPadnos> ah, we meet again
[00:37:33] <alex_joni> and again
[00:37:34] <alex_joni> and again
[00:37:36] <alex_joni> ..
[00:38:21] <MASEngr2> Uh, I can't tell if this is a common error or if I'm going "above and beyond" here.
[00:38:36] <alex_joni> MASEngr: not really, so far :)
[00:40:03] <jlmjvm> alex_joni:no change after reboot
[00:40:16] <MASEngr2> Oh, good. It's hard to tell sometimes.
[00:40:33] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: ok, lets step back for a bit
[00:40:41] <jlmjvm> k
[00:40:44] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: try to run a sample config
[00:40:48] <jlmjvm> k
[00:40:53] <MASEngr2> Now the latest error is: Starting EMC2...
[00:40:51] <MASEngr2> m5i20_io.hal:83: Signal name 'iocontrol.0.tool-prepare' may not be the same as a pin.
[00:40:51] <MASEngr2> Shutting down and cleaning up EMC2...
[00:40:51] <MASEngr2> Cleanup done
[00:40:51] <MASEngr2> EMC terminated with an error. You can find more information in the log files
[00:40:56] <MASEngr2> /home/cnc/emc_debug.txt
[00:41:07] <MASEngr2> Which tells me: 8217
[00:41:07] <MASEngr2> Stopping realtime threads
[00:41:07] <MASEngr2> Unloading hal components
[00:41:10] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:41:16] <SWPadnos> there's the error with linkpp ;)
[00:41:21] <alex_joni> MASEngr: you replaced linkpp with net ?
[00:41:29] <MASEngr2> Well, I thought that might work.
[00:41:35] <alex_joni> net has a slighly different syntax :P
[00:41:37] <SWPadnos> if it's an error now to have net names the same as pin names
[00:41:39] <alex_joni> you were close..
[00:41:46] <alex_joni> net needs a net name
[00:41:51] <alex_joni> net <name> pin pin pin
[00:41:53] <SWPadnos> ah, an error with the net command - I get it (duh me)
[00:41:55] <MASEngr2> Okay, so what's the fix for that?
[00:41:58] <alex_joni> add a name
[00:42:07] <SWPadnos> net somename <the smae list of pins in the linkpp command>
[00:42:12] <SWPadnos> samd, not smae
[00:42:14] <SWPadnos> gah
[00:42:14] <alex_joni> net masetoolprep iocontrol.0.tool-prepare ...
[00:42:24] <alex_joni> in m5i20_io.hal line 83
[00:42:29] <SWPadnos> same, not samd or smae
[00:42:42] <alex_joni> samdaehgah
[00:42:43] <SWPadnos> what about smee?
[00:42:50] <alex_joni> smee again
[00:42:56] <SWPadnos> what about smee? smee's me - what about me?
[00:43:04] <alex_joni> goan ..
[00:43:05] <MASEngr2> Ahah. Yeah, I just added "toolprepped" and "toolchanged" in front of the two lines.
[00:43:14] <SWPadnos> after net, I hope ;)
[00:43:18] <MASEngr2> Now it boots.
[00:43:18] <alex_joni> MASEngr: good, now try again :)
[00:43:23] <alex_joni> great
[00:43:32] <alex_joni> one we can kick out of the channel now
[00:43:35] <MASEngr2> Yes, I already changed it to "net" from "linkpp"
[00:43:45] <MASEngr2> Thanks.
[00:43:51] <alex_joni> MASEngr: don't sweat it
[00:43:51] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:44:06] <MASEngr2> What about the old configuration parameters? Can those just be copied over, or will I have to recalibrate the machine?
[00:44:13] <alex_joni> they are already there
[00:44:15] <SWPadnos> config is different from var files
[00:44:31] <SWPadnos> the var file has coordinate offsets, so those will be 0 now
[00:44:33] <MASEngr2> Ah, excellent. I'll set it to run 500 parts and leave for the evening.
[00:44:48] <alex_joni> * alex_joni whines silently
[00:44:55] <SWPadnos> but things like scale and pin assignments are in the hal and ini files, which you shouldn't have changed (except for hte net thing)
[00:45:05] <jlmjvm> sim_inch is running
[00:45:05] <alex_joni> people are overconfident in software
[00:45:13] <SWPadnos> ok - let us know how many of them come out right ;)
[00:45:18] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: ok... try a stepper sample
[00:45:22] <jlmjvm> k
[00:45:36] <MASEngr2> Alex, I've been programming for too long to trust ANY software.
[00:45:40] <SWPadnos> disconnect your USC/UPC first
[00:45:50] <alex_joni> usc???
[00:45:52] <SWPadnos> yes
[00:45:52] <MASEngr2> Disconnect the milling machine first, you mean. ;)
[00:45:57] <SWPadnos> that too ;)
[00:46:00] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: USC????
[00:46:02] <MASEngr2> Goodnight.
[00:46:01] <SWPadnos> YES
[00:46:13] <SWPadnos> unless it's the other machine
[00:46:14] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: then why is his config called stepper_inch ?
[00:46:21] <SWPadnos> damfino
[00:46:35] <SWPadnos> there are two or three machines there, I don't know which this is
[00:49:43] <jlmjvm> the stepper inch sample comes on,but gives this mesg:RTAPI: ERROR: Unexpected realtime delay on task 1
[00:50:03] <SWPadnos> that's OK - but this computer may not be ideal for realtime
[00:50:08] <alex_joni> that only points to possible problems with your machine
[00:50:16] <SWPadnos> didn't you have that problem before?
[00:50:27] <jlmjvm> machine was working
[00:50:31] <SWPadnos> (I thought we discussed putting in a PCI or AGP video card)
[00:50:34] <jlmjvm> nope
[00:51:25] <alex_joni> anyways.. take it as a warning for now
[00:51:27] <jlmjvm> i did get it when i tried a different vid card once now that you mention that
[00:52:05] <jlmjvm> but there has been no recent change
[00:52:23] <alex_joni> ok, moving on..
[00:52:29] <alex_joni> back to the config issue
[00:52:50] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: if the sample config runs, that means emc and co are OK
[00:52:50] <jlmjvm> why are the x and y jogs backwards?
[00:53:04] <alex_joni> because it's not your machine
[00:53:16] <alex_joni> it's a *sample* configuration
[00:53:41] <jlmjvm> never mind,im losing my mind,lol
[00:53:51] <alex_joni> ok..
[00:53:58] <alex_joni> now.. lets try to fix your configuration
[00:54:04] <jlmjvm> k
[00:54:05] <SWPadnos> too late
[00:54:07] <SWPadnos> oops ;)
[00:54:07] <alex_joni> there are 2 possible ways to do it
[00:54:30] <jlmjvm> should i just build a new 1
[00:54:31] <alex_joni> 1. fix your old 2.1.7 config
[00:54:42] <alex_joni> 2. build a new one based on the new sample-configs
[00:54:58] <alex_joni> 2. has the disadvantage you need to set a lot of parameters
[00:55:00] <jlmjvm> wouldnt i be better off with new?
[00:55:15] <alex_joni> you need to set steps/inch for all axes
[00:55:18] <alex_joni> velocity limits
[00:55:21] <alex_joni> accel
[00:55:24] <alex_joni> travel
[00:55:30] <alex_joni> limit switches if you have them
[00:55:31] <alex_joni> etc
[00:55:46] <alex_joni> (might easily turn into a couple hours job)
[00:55:55] <alex_joni> lets try 1 again
[00:56:02] <jlmjvm> k
[00:56:27] <alex_joni> I will type some things and you will tell me if you agree or not.. ok?
[00:56:40] <jlmjvm> k
[00:57:09] <alex_joni> your config is in /home/jlmjvm/configs/stepper
[00:57:22] <alex_joni> the config file you run is stepper_inch.ini
[00:57:59] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: ok so far?
[00:58:41] <jlmjvm> /home/jlmjvm/emc2/configs/stepper
[00:58:49] <jlmjvm> yes
[00:58:51] <alex_joni> ok
[00:59:00] <alex_joni> can you copy a fresh var file?
[00:59:27] <jlmjvm> yes
[00:59:33] <jlmjvm> from the samples?
[00:59:36] <alex_joni> cp /etc/emc2/sample-configs/stepper/stepper.var /home/jlmjvm/emc2/configs/stepper/stepper.var
[00:59:50] <alex_joni> yes, from the sample
[01:00:59] <jlmjvm> i deleted the stepper.var earlier and replaced with emc.var from the samples
[01:01:24] <jlmjvm> didnt find a stepper.var in the common samples
[01:01:28] <SWPadnos> rename emc.var to stepper.var
[01:01:33] <jlmjvm> only the emc.var
[01:01:39] <SWPadnos> mv emc.var stepper.var
[01:01:56] <jlmjvm> k
[01:01:56] <SWPadnos> or copy as alex suggested
[01:02:02] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: ok, now lets try to run it again
[01:02:29] <jlmjvm> k
[01:02:50] <jlmjvm> that worked
[01:03:06] <jlmjvm> but im still getting the realtime error
[01:03:11] <jlmjvm> hooray
[01:03:35] <alex_joni> glad it worked
[01:03:40] <SWPadnos> the realtime error is a problem with your PC, and won't be fixed with software configuration
[01:03:50] <alex_joni> unless you use an older emc2
[01:03:59] <alex_joni> which simply doesn't tell you there's a problem
[01:03:59] <jlmjvm> are there new hardware requirements
[01:04:03] <SWPadnos> right, where it doesn't bother to tell you
[01:04:17] <jlmjvm> this is all new stuff
[01:04:21] <SWPadnos> no, this is a better diagnostic than before, to prevent possible problems
[01:04:22] <alex_joni> no, but the newer version of emc2 is more exigent? in finding and reporting errors
[01:04:27] <SWPadnos> stringent
[01:04:44] <alex_joni> ok..
[01:04:49] <jlmjvm> but will it still cut a part
[01:05:08] <SWPadnos> should, but it may not look so great
[01:05:06] <alex_joni> yes.. just as good/bad as before
[01:05:34] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: the task 1 error is a rt deadline missed reported by rtai
[01:05:35] <SWPadnos> right - the same as before, but it's now telling you that there could be timing issues with this PC hardware configuration
[01:06:17] <SWPadnos> right. I'm not sure if the code waits a little while after startup to start checking, or if it starts up immediately
[01:06:18] <alex_joni> the emc2 determined error (% of lateness) is a different one
[01:06:25] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[01:06:28] <alex_joni> and that one is more severe
[01:06:46] <alex_joni> the task 1 error usually appears more easily during startup
[01:06:48] <jlmjvm> let me reboot the computer
[01:06:56] <jlmjvm> brb
[01:07:02] <SWPadnos> no
[01:07:06] <jlmjvm> ?
[01:07:06] <alex_joni> no need to
[01:07:09] <SWPadnos> shouldn't be necesary
[01:07:16] <alex_joni> unless you really want to :P
[01:07:18] <SWPadnos> this is not a software problem
[01:07:34] <jlmjvm> k
[01:07:47] <SWPadnos> the video card is a common culprit, but it could be just about anything
[01:07:51] <SWPadnos> what is the CPU speed on this PC?
[01:07:54] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: what you could do..
[01:08:07] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: open a terminal, and type 'latency-test'
[01:08:20] <alex_joni> (make sure emc2 is NOT RUNNING when you do this)
[01:10:49] <jlmjvm> amd2.2gh socket 754,gig ram
[01:11:11] <jlmjvm> running latency test right now
[01:11:14] <SWPadnos> hmmm. onboard video?
[01:11:21] <SWPadnos> (or did we ask that already?)
[01:11:22] <jlmjvm> no
[01:11:26] <SWPadnos> what video card?
[01:11:30] <jlmjvm> nvidia mx440
[01:11:39] <SWPadnos> are you using the nvidia display driver?
[01:11:42] <jlmjvm> nv
[01:11:44] <alex_joni> don't think so
[01:12:02] <alex_joni> right..
[01:12:07] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[01:12:08] <SWPadnos> is nv ok?
[01:12:12] <SWPadnos> night Alex
[01:12:13] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: yup
[01:12:17] <alex_joni> nv is the OSS one
[01:12:19] <jlmjvm> thanks alex
[01:12:19] <SWPadnos> have a good 2-hour rest ;)
[01:12:22] <alex_joni> nvidia is the bad one
[01:12:29] <SWPadnos> ok. I thought they both had issues
[01:12:38] <SWPadnos> and that it's best to use vesa
[01:12:42] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I might squeeze about 5 in
[01:12:45] <SWPadnos> , but I'm not sure
[01:12:47] <alex_joni> I run nv all the time
[01:12:46] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:12:50] <jlmjvm> what should the latency numbers be
[01:12:51] <SWPadnos> ok
[01:12:55] <SWPadnos> low ;)
[01:12:58] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: ideally 0
[01:13:06] <alex_joni> but there's no such system :)
[01:13:24] <jlmjvm> 140143
[01:13:26] <alex_joni> I get about 11-12 usec here
[01:13:28] <SWPadnos> but numbers below 10000 are probably very good, between 10000 and 20000 are probably OK
[01:13:30] <alex_joni> that's quite bad
[01:13:33] <SWPadnos> 140143 is terrible
[01:13:47] <jlmjvm> brb
[01:13:56] <SWPadnos> rebooting won't help
[01:13:59] <SWPadnos> ...
[01:14:00] <alex_joni> especially for a parport based machine
[01:14:07] <alex_joni> maybe he changed to vesa?
[01:14:15] <alex_joni> although that was too fast for that :D
[01:14:16] <SWPadnos> yeah, I was going to say that that's unusable for steppers
[01:14:20] <SWPadnos> probably ;)
[01:14:28] <alex_joni> might still work for an USC
[01:14:34] <alex_joni> although I have nfc
[01:14:41] <SWPadnos> could be, but it's still pretty bad
[01:14:54] <alex_joni> good night
[01:14:56] <SWPadnos> that's 14% of a 1KHz update - lots of phase noise
[01:15:22] <alex_joni> * alex_joni sticks fingers in his ears
[01:16:52] <SWPadnos> hi there. long time no see
[01:17:51] <jlmjvm> what was that latency test command
[01:17:57] <SWPadnos> latency-test
[01:18:01] <SWPadnos> :)
[01:18:08] <jlmjvm> didnt have the -
[01:18:14] <SWPadnos> right
[01:18:34] <SWPadnos> did you change video drivers or something?
[01:19:06] <jlmjvm> nope,something must be dying,lol
[01:19:09] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:19:12] <jlmjvm> brb
[01:19:18] <SWPadnos> hard drives can also be a problem
[01:19:25] <SWPadnos> nevermind
[01:35:19] <jlmjvm> did a full power reboot and my latency is much lower
[01:35:29] <SWPadnos> interesting
[01:35:46] <jlmjvm> 5928
[01:36:09] <SWPadnos> open some windows and drag them around
[01:36:11] <jlmjvm> it did that once before
[01:36:13] <jlmjvm> k
[01:36:20] <SWPadnos> run something like glxgears
[01:36:54] <jlmjvm> but dont open emc,lol,like i just did
[01:37:01] <SWPadnos> right
[01:37:28] <jlmjvm> it really didnt like that
[01:37:33] <SWPadnos> nope
[01:42:23] <jlmjvm> 8877,7502 is what im getting
[01:42:43] <SWPadnos> I hope that's two different numbers mashed together
[01:43:13] <SWPadnos> with the test running (but without running EMC), start some programs and drag them around
[01:43:23] <SWPadnos> open a terminal and run glxgears
[01:43:33] <SWPadnos> expand and contract the window, drag it around, etc.
[01:44:23] <SWPadnos> als, just for the heck of it, go to a terminal, change to the root dir, and type `find . -type f`
[01:44:26] <SWPadnos> also
[01:45:57] <jlmjvm> its 2 numbers
[01:46:58] <jlmjvm> but i still get the emc error when it starts
[01:47:17] <jlmjvm> what kinda latency numbers do you have
[01:47:35] <SWPadnos> none at the moment - I'm not on a RT EMC computer right now
[01:47:44] <jlmjvm> k
[01:48:16] <jlmjvm> figured you had some super low numbers
[01:48:46] <SWPadnos> one computer I use has RTAI test numbers below 500
[01:49:06] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure if the HAL test you're running gives the same numbers as the RTAI test though
[01:49:27] <jlmjvm> damn,my low was 4200
[01:49:43] <SWPadnos> the max on that particular PC is about 2000 or so
[01:49:52] <SWPadnos> but it isn't running a GUI
[01:49:54] <SWPadnos> no X at all
[01:49:55] <jlmjvm> oh really
[01:51:06] <jlmjvm> did you have any realtime errors when you changed to 2.2
[01:51:31] <SWPadnos> I don't have a machine that I routinely use EMC on
[01:51:55] <SWPadnos> my Bridgeport retrofit is a "very long term" project :)
[01:52:49] <jlmjvm> could you get that error if you dont have any hardware hooked up?
[01:53:06] <jlmjvm> mine is gutted right now
[01:53:11] <SWPadnos> yes, it's telling you that the rtaltime system noticed that a deadline was missed
[01:53:15] <SWPadnos> realtime
[01:53:21] <jlmjvm> lol
[01:53:38] <SWPadnos> it's possible for that to happen with only a disk drive attached to the motherboard
[01:53:44] <jlmjvm> thats what it is then
[01:53:52] <SWPadnos> that's what the message tells you, yes
[01:53:56] <jlmjvm> id bet money
[01:54:06] <jlmjvm> lol
[01:54:12] <SWPadnos> so the trick is to try to find what piece of hardware/driver is causing the problem
[01:55:23] <jlmjvm> i bet it will go away when i hook up my hardware in my mill and connect my parports
[01:56:02] <SWPadnos> I wouldn't bet that
[01:56:05] <SWPadnos> but you can if you like :)
[01:56:13] <jlmjvm> well im hoping
[01:56:34] <SWPadnos> I don't think that pays, actually
[01:56:53] <SWPadnos> you should try to find the problem, especially with a software step generation system
[01:57:26] <SWPadnos> this is less of a problem for a system that uses something like the USC, since it doesn't need to do thigns quite so often
[01:57:28] <SWPadnos> things
[01:59:20] <jlmjvm> how do you find a realtime problem?
[01:59:53] <SWPadnos> that's a very good question
[02:00:19] <SWPadnos> the way it's usually done is more or less by trial and error. Try changing hardware and/or drivers until it goes away
[02:00:44] <SWPadnos> try running applications that might cause the problem to occur more often, to try and narrow down the cause of the problem
[02:10:58] <toastyde1th> the machine gods smiled upon me today
[02:11:15] <toastyde1th> and i got the 11" blower covers finished
[02:11:28] <toastyde1th> i was expecting something to go horribly wrong but it didn't
[02:11:33] <toastyde1th> a first for this project
[02:20:46] <jlmjvm> if i use the stepper inch sample i dont get the realtime error anymore
[02:21:55] <jlmjvm> may need to just do a new config anyway
[02:31:45] <jlmjvm> SWPadnos:it was my base task period set too low
[02:32:32] <SWPadnos> sure - if you try to run too fast, you'll get errors
[02:32:56] <SWPadnos> but, that very high latency number (143000+) is unusable for stepper systems
[02:33:05] <jlmjvm> was 10000,changed to 20000
[02:33:17] <SWPadnos> at least, for stepper systems that you want to run faster than 3IPM or so
[02:33:35] <jlmjvm> 4431
[02:34:02] <SWPadnos> ok. if those exceedingly high numbers were just anomalies, you may be OK
[02:34:17] <jlmjvm> im sure they were
[02:34:20] <SWPadnos> but I'd want to know where the anomalies came from before cutting anything :)
[02:35:42] <jlmjvm> i prolly had it jammed up earlier
[02:36:30] <jlmjvm> where do you get to the new stuff that i was seeing earlier,like the port setup
[02:36:52] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure what you were looking at earlier
[02:36:58] <SWPadnos> was it the stepconf script?
[02:37:52] <jlmjvm> dont know,alex sent me a link earlier that showed a box where you set the pins for the parport
[02:38:21] <SWPadnos> probably stepconf
[02:38:34] <SWPadnos> try running stepconf from a terminal
[02:38:38] <SWPadnos> without EMC running (just in case :) )
[02:38:43] <jlmjvm> k
[02:40:01] <jlmjvm> gave an error
[02:40:18] <SWPadnos> I don't know anything about it other than the name and some of the pretty pictures. sorry
[02:40:18] <jlmjvm> will worry bout that later
[02:40:48] <jlmjvm> looked cool
[02:40:59] <jlmjvm> later
[02:41:02] <SWPadnos> see you. good luck
[02:58:15] <SWPadnos> hey Stuart
[02:58:23] <stustev> good evening
[02:59:07] <stustev> what's going on this evening
[02:59:15] <SWPadnos> not much
[02:59:29] <SWPadnos> mostly tech support for people who have upgraded to 2.2
[02:59:46] <stustev> I haven't even tried yet.
[03:00:06] <SWPadnos> it's easy, but you do need to be sure to update a couple of things in your configs
[03:00:24] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.2
[03:00:40] <SWPadnos> and then follow the link near the bottom, UPDATING
[03:00:51] <stustev> I have been busy trying to learn Python and C and C++.
[03:01:01] <stustev> I will try it. thanks
[03:01:04] <SWPadnos> oh, that's a good evening's work ;)
[03:01:14] <SWPadnos> or three hundred
[03:01:27] <stustev> I was going to say 'or maybe two'
[03:01:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:01:34] <SWPadnos> just being realistic ;)
[03:02:07] <SWPadnos> one thing I've noticed about computer languages - the syntax is generally pretty easy to pick up (a computer needs to understand it, after all)
[03:02:09] <stustev> I am not wanting to be an expert - just understand some of what is going on
[03:02:27] <SWPadnos> it's knowing what's already been done for you (library contents) that's the real kicker
[03:02:58] <stustev> my main problem is trying to figure out the new symbols and short cuts
[03:03:07] <SWPadnos> so for you, the hard part will be when you look at a function name, you need to look up where things come from
[03:03:16] <SWPadnos> whether it's printf or inifile.find
[03:03:27] <stustev> yes
[03:03:37] <SWPadnos> (the former from standard libraries, the latter from the emc ini routines)
[03:04:04] <SWPadnos> I have the same problem with EMC, though I'm usually handicapped by using a Windows system on which I don't have the latest code, so I can't search ;)
[03:05:22] <stustev> go to www.mpm1.com:8080 and check out the link there. tell me if it is working and what you see
[03:14:22] <stustev> cradek - what is the computer is hosting EMC? Surplus sales has some quad core 3 gig w/2 gig ram and 160 gb sata hard drives. These are IBM Intellistation (M50). I think they are model 6830. They were manufactured in 2006. Is the host comparable?
[03:20:32] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[03:20:51] <SWPadnos> it's hard to tell if it's "working", I have a project named "unnamed"
[03:21:05] <SWPadnos> with a bunch of main main main main on the project page
[03:21:12] <stustev> did you click on "unnamed"?
[03:21:15] <SWPadnos> yes
[03:21:24] <stustev> scroll down
[03:21:27] <SWPadnos> that's where the main main main ... (29 times) is
[03:21:47] <SWPadnos> yes, it does seem to have the data
[03:22:09] <SWPadnos> incidentally, when you ask about "hosting EMC", which part do you mean?
[03:22:26] <SWPadnos> the CVS server is one computer, and the wiki and linuxcnc.org are on a hosting service
[03:22:31] <stustev> the server - the computer doing the serving
[03:22:37] <SWPadnos> serving of what?
[03:22:42] <SWPadnos> (there are multiples :) )
[03:23:08] <stustev> ok I was just wondering if the project could use a good fast computer
[03:23:17] <SWPadnos> heh - as many as you'd like to donate ;)
[03:23:43] <SWPadnos> but it wouldn't help much for servers. the CVS server was a laptop in Jeff's basement for a while, I think
[03:24:01] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure what it is now, but I suspect the limitation there is upload bandwidth on his DSL line
[03:24:50] <stustev> probably - I was just trying to find out where I could contribute a little bit.
[03:25:23] <SWPadnos> much appreciated. I'm sure we'll think of something :)
[03:25:41] <stustev> does the application on my website look helpful?
[03:26:04] <SWPadnos> in flat form, I'm not sure. If there are more tree-like options, then absolutely
[03:26:21] <SWPadnos> though the flat form is also useful because you have only one place to search for identifiers
[03:27:18] <stustev> pick on some of the identifiers and then scroll the left window up and down
[03:29:16] <SWPadnos> ok - it looks like there's quite a bit hiding behind those links :)
[03:29:24] <stustev> I don't understand the difference between flat form and tree-like.
[03:30:36] <SWPadnos> oh, flat is where there's a list of more or less everything, regardless of where it comes from
[03:31:06] <SWPadnos> tree has things grouped in a hierarchy, like a file browser (a directory tree)
[03:31:20] <stustev> this then is both flat and tree-like
[03:31:27] <SWPadnos> yes, it seems that way
[03:31:40] <SWPadnos> first impression is flat because there are so many identifiers
[03:32:00] <SWPadnos> and all the "main" links are from various files that have a main() function
[03:32:18] <SWPadnos> so it looks a little weird, because there's no way to differentiate the different mains
[03:32:34] <SWPadnos> in a tree, you might have "emcsh" which has a node under it called main()
[03:33:26] <SWPadnos> ah, ok. the link does show the file name, so if you can see links (like firefox shows in the status bar), then you can differentiate between the mains
[03:33:59] <stustev> I haven't picked on any of the mains. I picked on some of the file names farther down on the main page. Then you can pick on identifier in those files. It will give you a lot of information about the identifiers.
[03:34:36] <stustev> This is my first attempt at using this software. It may not be as complete as possible.
[03:34:50] <SWPadnos> it's great, especially for a first attempt
[03:35:25] <stustev> I am trying to understand the data flow through EMC. This helps me a LOT.
[03:35:28] <SWPadnos> there's something similar on the CVS server, called lxr. I'm not sure how much duplication there is between the two
[03:35:33] <SWPadnos> heh, then it's useful :)
[03:35:57] <eric_u> I need help, I'm a slob
[03:36:21] <SWPadnos> clean up your room!
[03:36:39] <eric_u> just found a robot
[03:37:16] <stustev> I was wondering how this compares to open source. This is from a man in Slovakia. It is called Xrefactory. I have only downloaded the trial version. This is the output from compiling emc2-trunk this morning.
[03:37:51] <SWPadnos> this is an example of lxr (and what it was written for): http://lxr.linux.no/
[03:38:33] <SWPadnos> you can click on identifier search, freetext search, or file search in the top right, to search for things
[03:39:05] <SWPadnos> otherwise, it's similar - get to a file, and inside the file, more or less everything is clickable to see where it's used and/or where it's defined
[03:40:29] <stustev> I am looking at it. The Xrefactory is mainly written to refactor the code. I don't have ANY idea if that is useful or not. I was looking for something to cross reference the project so I could follow the flow.
[03:40:57] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure we want to tackle a real refactor before EMC4 or so ;)
[03:42:29] <stustev> What is refactoring? Will it rearrange the files. Write new files in another logical arrangement?
[03:42:52] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure it can be done automatically or semi-automatically
[03:42:58] <stustev> I will try lxr tomorrow.
[03:43:13] <SWPadnos> refactoring is basically restructuring the code so it works better and is more maintainable
[03:43:37] <Wowbagger_> I'm attempting to get emc up and running on my old laptop... got ubuntu installed and emc2 running.
[03:43:40] <Wowbagger_> But i don't see any ticks on the parport.
[03:43:51] <Wowbagger_> It's a stepper config.
[03:43:54] <SWPadnos> it might be needed due to long-term feature creep (like EMC perhaps), bad initial design, changed requirements, etc.
[03:44:11] <Wowbagger_> Any suggestions on where to start for figuring out why there are no pulses on the parport pins?
[03:44:13] <stustev> I read that about it but what does it do? I may have to try it and see what it does.
[03:44:28] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure I understand the question
[03:44:35] <SWPadnos> (to stustev)
[03:44:52] <stustev> I can't hurt it any more than having to erase and reload
[03:45:09] <stustev> Then I will be able to see what it does.
[03:45:23] <SWPadnos> wowbagger, does this help? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting
[03:45:27] <SWPadnos> what lxr does?
[03:46:30] <stustev> Does it rearrange the includes, defines and other things or does it rewrite new files in another logical format?
[03:46:41] <stustev> no - refactoring
[03:46:46] <SWPadnos> ah
[03:47:00] <SWPadnos> refactoring is the software word for redesign (from the mechanical world)
[03:47:39] <SWPadnos> if you have a machine that has a part that often fails, you'd redesign that part, and therefore likely the surrounding parts, and then maybe more of the parts, until you eliminate that problem
[03:48:20] <SWPadnos> at some point, you go back to the drawing board and decide to do a refresh of the design, because you have many small changes, and you may see that there are some more major and/or funcamental changes that can improve things even more
[03:48:30] <SWPadnos> fundamental
[03:48:54] <SWPadnos> so even though the current design works, you "fix" it anyway, for whatever reasons
[03:49:06] <SWPadnos> that is refactoring, for software
[03:49:36] <cradek> good evening
[03:49:42] <SWPadnos> hi cradek
[03:49:50] <SWPadnos> did I get that rightenough?
[03:49:53] <SWPadnos> right enough
[03:50:39] <cradek> get what?
[03:50:54] <SWPadnos> a correct (enough) description of what refactoring is)
[03:51:12] <stustev> hi Chris
[03:51:18] <cradek> I don't believe in refactoring, so I'm a bad one to ask
[03:51:16] <Wowbagger_> SWPadnos: Indeed. I had to add loadrt probe_parport. Thank you!
[03:51:24] <Wowbagger_> Motors go!
[03:51:25] <SWPadnos> greaet!
[03:51:30] <SWPadnos> err - great!
[03:51:42] <toastyde1th> but also greaet!
[03:51:45] <cradek> the idea is you can change the code all around to make it more pleasant to work on, without introducing any bugs or changing functionality
[03:51:51] <cradek> or at least that's my understanding
[03:51:55] <stustev> sounds like a good idea
[03:51:55] <cradek> I have never seen it done :-)
[03:51:59] <SWPadnos> note that a laptop is probably not going to be the best computer for actual machine control, unless you're very lucky
[03:52:04] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:52:23] <Wowbagger_> I know.
[03:52:25] <SWPadnos> I was thinking more like turning frankenstein into - um - some good looking guy
[03:52:33] <cradek> I'm still trying to load www.mpm1.com:8080...
[03:52:35] <Wowbagger_> I'm going to give it a try and see how painful it is...
[03:52:38] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:52:45] <SWPadnos> just keep your fingers out of the way ;)
[03:52:47] <Wowbagger_> yeah
[03:52:56] <Wowbagger_> it's a small, weak thing.
[03:53:02] <stustev> it won't load for you?
[03:53:19] <stustev> what does it do?
[03:53:54] <cradek> pretty much no response, only a spinning icon thing and "Loading..."
[03:54:06] <cradek> ok it timed out now
[03:54:15] <SWPadnos> interesting. I get a timeout with FireFox, but Mozilla loaded it fine
[03:54:38] <toastyde1th> i would like a bumper sticker that said "my other mill is an integrex"
[03:54:53] <SWPadnos> My other mill is a Krups
[03:54:55] <cradek> my system administrator only lets me have one web browser
[03:54:59] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:55:01] <SWPadnos> prick
[03:55:01] <toastyde1th> i would hang it on the shitty Tong-il we have
[03:55:59] <SWPadnos> wow - they still make the same coffee mill I have
[03:56:05] <stustev> Chris - www.mpm1.com:8080 is from my desktop computer. it seems to work real fast some times and not at all at other times. This is the first night of serving from that computer.
[03:56:07] <SWPadnos> and have had for close to 20 years
[03:56:11] <cradek> stustev: how is your conversion coming?
[03:57:49] <Wowbagger_> In my old emc.ini file I had a input/output_scale setting of -8000 to make one of the axis go the right way. Is that how I should still do it? Or should I invert that stepper's dir pin somehow?
[03:58:01] <cradek> negative scale is still the easy way
[03:58:03] <stustev> No progress yet this week. Randy should be in tomorrow to install some hardware. I have been trying to learn Python, C and C++ in the last two weeks. It may take me another day or two.
[03:58:10] <Wowbagger_> cradek: thanks
[03:58:21] <SWPadnos> or three ;)
[03:58:31] <cradek> stustev: I'll let you know how long it takes me (remains to be seen)
[03:58:38] <stustev> I was being optimistic
[03:58:59] <stustev> have you been working on it a month or so?
[03:59:07] <cradek> yeah something like that
[03:59:13] <SWPadnos> if I knew python and a lot more about C++ (and C), then I'd be there already
[03:59:29] <cradek> I still know squat about C++. I can (barely) edit it and fix bugs in it.
[03:59:45] <toastyde1th> i feel the same way about g-code.
[03:59:45] <cradek> I've spent 5? years trying to care, but I don' tyet
[03:59:47] <cradek> don't yet
[03:59:52] <SWPadnos> from the experts and presentations I've seen, I'm very impressed with it, even for embedded work
[04:00:09] <SWPadnos> however, I'm not sufficiently proficient to actually use it yet ;)
[04:00:31] <SWPadnos> I am sufficiently deficient though
[04:00:40] <cradek> I'm a little excited about the new probing stuff
[04:00:46] <cradek> it will be nice to have a smart probe algorithm
[04:01:08] <cradek> I have a couple bugs left though it seems (at least one I didn't recently add)
[04:01:17] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:01:26] <stustev> maybe a refactor will fix the bugs
[04:01:46] <SWPadnos> hah
[04:01:52] <SWPadnos> I mean, hmmm. could be
[04:01:54] <stustev> lol
[04:02:07] <cradek> http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Atroll
[04:02:16] <cradek> :-)
[04:02:39] <SWPadnos> refactoring is like building yourself a new VMC from scratch, instead of replacing a dull end mill
[04:03:32] <toastyde1th> they had to do that to solve chatter problems on modern vmcs
[04:03:47] <SWPadnos> that's them, not us
[04:03:49] <SWPadnos> :)
[04:03:55] <toastyde1th> indeed!
[04:03:56] <stustev> what's that - put a dull end mill in the spindle?
[04:04:14] <SWPadnos> well, if the old one is bad, you should stick a new one in ;)
[04:04:23] <stustev> a dull end mill will solve chatter problems
[04:04:32] <SWPadnos> no end mill should too
[04:04:52] <stustev> no end mill - will cause no noise
[04:05:01] <SWPadnos> indeed. no power is even better for that though
[04:05:04] <toastyde1th> you can feed at like 40000 ipm
[04:05:06] <toastyde1th> with no endmill
[04:05:10] <toastyde1th> ultra-high-speed machining
[04:05:19] <SWPadnos> like air guitar
[04:05:52] <stustev> exactly but different
[04:05:59] <toastyde1th> NO EXACTLY THE SAME
[04:06:09] <SWPadnos> well, OK then.
[04:06:22] <stustev> air guitar has noise - the person singing
[04:06:28] <toastyde1th> the mill makes noise!
[04:06:32] <SWPadnos> and believe me, that is noise
[04:06:40] <SWPadnos> not without power
[04:06:45] <SWPadnos> the ultimate quiet solution
[04:06:47] <toastyde1th> i think someone's crashed the VF-0 at school one too many times
[04:06:48] <stustev> mill noise is music to MY ears
[04:06:50] <SWPadnos> for all power equipment
[04:06:51] <toastyde1th> the spindle load sits at about 40%
[04:06:53] <cradek> this xref thing is working for me now. it reminds me a lot of lxr.
[04:06:55] <toastyde1th> anytime it is on
[04:06:59] <toastyde1th> and the damn thing stalls
[04:07:00] <toastyde1th> very easily
[04:07:44] <cradek> I'm impressed that the worst I've done to my bridgeport so far is to pull the work up out of the vise
[04:08:10] <toastyde1th> i was at 500 rpm @ 7.5 ipm
[04:08:25] <toastyde1th> 3/4" five flute roughing mill
[04:08:25] <toastyde1th> in steel
[04:08:31] <toastyde1th> nothing too crazy
[04:08:36] <toastyde1th> it was like, plate
[04:08:43] <toastyde1th> and the spindle just stops after a second
[04:09:01] <SWPadnos> what's driving the spindle?
[04:09:03] <SWPadnos> VFD?
[04:09:10] <stustev> what was the depth and width of the cut?
[04:09:17] <SWPadnos> and what kind of overloads are there?
[04:09:26] <toastyde1th> swpadnos: i suppose so, whatever Haas puts on their VMCs
[04:09:44] <toastyde1th> i think it's an integrated spindle/motor with a vector vfd
[04:09:52] <toastyde1th> it's supposed to be like, 5-10 hp?
[04:09:59] <SWPadnos> unless there was a massive current surge at some point, I'd be very surprised if the motor is damaged
[04:10:06] <toastyde1th> the depth of cut was .375, the thickness of the plate
[04:10:22] <toastyde1th> width was full slotting, at .750" wide
[04:10:27] <SWPadnos> it seems much more likely to be the drive or protection systems
[04:10:30] <toastyde1th> it was
[04:10:31] <stustev> 5 hp should cut that - even full width
[04:10:42] <toastyde1th> a bridgeport would cut that
[04:10:48] <toastyde1th> but yet, the spindle just... stopped
[04:10:56] <toastyde1th> and was bogging until i dropped the feed down to 5.0 ipm
[04:11:13] <toastyde1th> i think somebody crashed real bad
[04:11:15] <toastyde1th> and didn't tell anyone
[04:11:23] <toastyde1th> 40% load is not normal with an idling spindle
[04:11:31] <stustev> how does the spindle feel when you turn it by hand?
[04:11:47] <toastyde1th> not as free as I would expect, but it is smooth and without catches
[04:12:03] <toastyde1th> there's no neutral on the mill, so i don't know if i'm feeling the motor or the bearings
[04:12:15] <eric_u> you'd think a crash would cause runout
[04:12:39] <toastyde1th> the inside of the taper is a little buggered
[04:12:41] <toastyde1th> or i'd look
[04:12:49] <toastyde1th> this mill gets a fair amount of abuse
[04:12:58] <stustev> it shouldn't be free and easily turned. It will have to spin the spindle and the motor. When you spin the spindle and release it does it coast to a stop or stop immediately?
[04:13:05] <eric_u> government jobs only?
[04:13:21] <toastyde1th> stustev: it stops fast and bounces back a little
[04:13:34] <toastyde1th> eric_u: it's a VMC at a college
[04:13:40] <stustev> from just a spin by hand?
[04:13:43] <eric_u> ah, student jobs only
[04:13:46] <toastyde1th> stustev: yes
[04:13:58] <toastyde1th> eric_u: no, students don't touch it, it's the inept "technical staff"
[04:14:06] <stustev> is your spindle brake stuck?
[04:14:16] <toastyde1th> stustev: no, it turns too freely for that
[04:14:28] <toastyde1th> and there's no lock option
[04:14:30] <SWPadnos> hmmm. could be dragging though
[04:14:32] <toastyde1th> which makes me doubt it has one
[04:15:15] <toastyde1th> the only think it's got is a detent thingy for spindle orient
[04:15:39] <toastyde1th> eric_u: i saw one dude crash the mill six times in the span of ten minutes trying to make, i shit you not, a t-nut
[04:15:47] <cradek> 40% load into a stuck brake will be evident to the nose
[04:15:55] <eric_u> ouch
[04:15:57] <stustev> and to the ears
[04:15:57] <cradek> toastyde1th: haha
[04:16:13] <toastyde1th> it's funny retrospect
[04:16:21] <toastyde1th> but at the time i wanted to kill the guy
[04:16:43] <toastyde1th> especially since he gives EVERYONE shit about very tiny mistakes
[04:16:56] <toastyde1th> but he goes through two endmills anytime he sets his hands on the thing
[04:17:07] <toastyde1th> and might not get a good part out of it
[04:17:31] <toastyde1th> i don't know what's up but when i see the department head i'm going to mention it
[04:17:32] <toastyde1th> the spindle issue
[04:17:58] <toastyde1th> also, after you do any cutting on this thing, the tools get like, FIRED out of the spindle into the tool carousel
[04:18:04] <toastyde1th> during a tool change
[04:18:19] <toastyde1th> very loud "BANG" and the whole carousel shakes
[04:18:23] <cradek> I think I'd stay far away from this machine
[04:18:30] <cradek> and Mr. T-Nut
[04:18:39] <toastyde1th> i don't think he's allowed to use the machine by himself anymore
[04:19:05] <toastyde1th> nobody besides me can touch it without the department head being around or pre-approving the program/setup
[04:19:28] <toastyde1th> i still want to know why the spindle stopped
[04:19:34] <toastyde1th> it didn't even throw an alarm or an error
[04:19:40] <toastyde1th> i just hit "go" again and it turned back on
[04:19:45] <toastyde1th> and continued cutting, ablit bogged down a bit
[04:19:52] <toastyde1th> programmed 500, was turning 390 or so
[04:20:16] <stustev> the taper is shot - it is bell mouthed really bad. put some prussian blue on the taper, do a tool change by hand and see where the taper touches the tool. it will touch on only about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch on the top of the adapter. but that is not why the spindle load is so much
[04:20:34] <toastyde1th> stustev: i will definately do that
[04:20:52] <toastyde1th> i have a feeling the root cause of both issues lies in the same ballpark, though
[04:21:19] <cradek> could just have many problems all caused by a different kind of ineptness
[04:21:35] <stustev> check the runout on a tool - do a tool change and check it again - tap the side of the tool holder and check it again
[04:21:42] <toastyde1th> tap it?
[04:22:02] <toastyde1th> like, gently, or a little tap with a lead mallet?
[04:22:14] <toastyde1th> (gently by hand)
[04:22:19] <stustev> yes tap it with a small hammer
[04:22:27] <toastyde1th> sure, what am I looking for?
[04:22:29] <toastyde1th> variation?
[04:22:36] <eric_u> blue stuff
[04:22:38] <toastyde1th> not only runout, but change in said runout?
[04:23:07] <stustev> you are looking to see if the adapter will move sideways in the spindle.
[04:23:13] <toastyde1th> k
[04:23:59] <toastyde1th> i was kind of surpised at how stiff the spindle was though
[04:24:07] <stustev> I have some Haas machines. I have had the spindle load problem before. I will ask tomorrow what the solution was.
[04:24:08] <toastyde1th> i was expecting something like a bridgeport or a little heavier
[04:24:25] <toastyde1th> this is like, the big 30 hp mori seiki at work when it's in gear
[04:24:31] <toastyde1th> does not turn freely
[04:24:41] <toastyde1th> smooth, but not free
[04:24:55] <stustev> does it now make a lot more noise than it used to?
[04:25:05] <toastyde1th> the spindle has some imbalance in it for sure
[04:25:12] <toastyde1th> but i don't know about more noise
[04:25:45] <toastyde1th> when you get it up around 3k it starts to give a little dirty "vrrrr"
[04:25:51] <skinnypuppycnc> Would installing vmware server cause base thread to be longer ?
[04:25:54] <toastyde1th> like a real high speed, low magnetude imblance
[04:25:59] <stustev> what does it sound like at 100 rpm. it should be silent
[04:26:07] <toastyde1th> it is
[04:26:15] <toastyde1th> or near to it
[04:27:15] <stustev> you could hear a little motor whine but otherwise the spindle should be silent. Have anyone called the Haas dealer?
[04:27:26] <toastyde1th> nah, nobody uses it anymore but like me
[04:27:32] <toastyde1th> i'm going to bring it up
[04:27:55] <toastyde1th> "call haas, something to do with the spindle/motor/load limits is not right"
[04:28:26] <stustev> if no one uses it and management has no interest they will not be willing to spend any money to fix it.
[04:28:36] <toastyde1th> well that's the thing, it's a "show" mill
[04:28:49] <toastyde1th> they're like, "we have this fabulous program look at our technology"
[04:28:54] <stustev> how old is it?
[04:28:55] <toastyde1th> so if something is really fucked up, they're going to spend to save face
[04:29:00] <toastyde1th> five, six years old?
[04:29:29] <stustev> past warranty - you would have better luck trying to get Haas to replace it for free.
[04:29:57] <stustev> to save face and show technology
[04:30:06] <toastyde1th> yeah
[04:30:17] <toastyde1th> haas has done things like that in the past
[04:30:19] <toastyde1th> for us
[04:30:33] <toastyde1th> not sure what the particulars were or what they did though
[04:30:54] <eric_u> penn state is Haas' showroom
[04:30:57] <stustev> and they will again - it will take 6 months or a year - someone there knows - ask around
[04:31:17] <toastyde1th> eric_u: penn state?
[04:31:17] <eric_u> they actually sell machines off of one of the floors at the IE school
[04:31:27] <toastyde1th> are you serious, i was looking at going there
[04:31:30] <eric_u> strange deal
[04:31:53] <stustev> the school gets new machine tools continuously this way
[04:31:55] <eric_u> which campus
[04:32:03] <toastyde1th> eric_u: i haven't looked that hard yet =)
[04:32:15] <toastyde1th> which one has the machine tools, i'll pick that one
[04:32:21] <eric_u> University park, of course
[04:32:26] <toastyde1th> by "looked" i mean "is on my list of schools to review"
[04:32:41] <eric_u> they have a really nice new building for industrial engineering
[04:32:55] <eric_u> mechanical engineering has gotten pretty good
[04:33:03] <toastyde1th> damn, that's hot
[04:33:12] <eric_u> you can look up the "learning factory"
[04:33:12] <stustev> good night all - must get my beauty sleep
[04:33:14] <toastyde1th> stustev: we are a really tiny local community college
[04:33:21] <cradek> goodnigh
[04:33:21] <toastyde1th> so dunno how accomodating haas wil be
[04:33:20] <toastyde1th> but ty
[04:33:21] <cradek> t
[04:33:22] <toastyde1th> and goodnight sir
[04:33:23] <cradek> me too
[04:33:46] <toastyde1th> goodnight to you too, if you are leaving
[04:34:08] <toastyde1th> i guess i will take a shower.
[04:34:15] <eric_u> http://www.lf.psu.edu/
[04:35:23] <eric_u> grad student told me today they have a waterjet
[05:01:40] <eric_u> anyone have a mesa they want to get rid of?
[05:17:13] <toastyde1th> i wonder if i will have to take saftey/training classes once i have my journeyman's card
[05:17:16] <toastyde1th> as a machinist
[05:17:21] <toastyde1th> to use college facilities
[05:17:36] <eric_u> probably, us Ph.D.
[05:17:43] <eric_u> 's arent too smart
[05:18:10] <toastyde1th> judging from what i've seen a Ph.D. try to pull on a lathe, i'd have to agree in some areas
[05:19:01] <eric_u> at least after all that training, you should learn to stay away from situations that will make you look stupid
[05:19:36] <toastyde1th> hahaha
[05:20:07] <eric_u> I try to learn something from everyone I meet, even the janitor
[05:20:14] <toastyde1th> toastyde1th is now known as toastydeath
[05:20:31] <toastydeath> dude janitors are awesome people to know if you have a question about how to clean something up
[05:20:50] <toastydeath> "how do i clean this up, steve"
[05:20:58] <toastydeath> "here, i will show you."
[05:21:03] <eric_u> never helped me yet, but they like it when you treat them with respect
[05:21:28] <toastydeath> yeah, i make a point to say hello and ask how they're doing
[05:21:30] <toastydeath> to all the maitnence staff
[05:25:09] <eric_u> yahoo's spam filter stinks
[05:26:52] <eric_u> they are sending yahoo groups emails to spam
[05:27:30] <toastydeath> hahahahahahahaha
[05:27:35] <toastydeath> either that or they're SUPER EFFECTIVE
[05:28:07] <eric_u> that's just goofy, wonder if they sent themselves a sternly worded email
[05:28:45] <toastydeath> which was then caught by their own spam filter, and generated another sternly worded email in reply
[06:47:55] <user_> Should 2.2 's max interval be close to the ovl max in 2.17?
[06:50:21] <user_> I've got an ovl max of 15882 in 2.1.7 and Max Interval of 37976 in 2.2 .
[07:08:33] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[07:53:15] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[08:03:08] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[08:11:19] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[12:58:08] <SkullWorks-PGAB> Another day - off to face the mid-week crisis at work.
[13:16:47] <jepler> user_: (yes, I know you're gone :-P) Max Interval is not the same as 'ovl max' in the rtai latency tester. the column most similar to 'ovl max' is 'Maximum Jitter'.
[13:22:11] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[16:43:50] <MASEngr> Good morning. I just popped in to say thanks for the help last night. The machine appears to be working with the update.
[16:45:47] <cradek> that's great
[16:49:41] <MASEngr> Yes, it is. Thanks again. Bye.
[17:00:03] <al> where to make the changes to stepspace for double step /INI?/corestepper?
[17:03:27] <al> also how can I satify my Geckos 20us hold time? /DIR_HOLD of 2 periods?
[17:04:26] <cradek> al: in 2.2.1 there will be a wizard 'stepconf' that will write this kind of configuration for you. it might be smart to hold on for a few days until we get it released. I think jepler wants to do it soon.
[17:05:20] <al> ok I tried to fire up the wiz but it didn't start
[17:05:46] <cradek> yeah it's got a bug in 2.2.0 unfortunately
[17:05:52] <cradek> it will be fixed soon
[17:07:14] <al> will I have to reconfig the whole setup ?
[17:07:45] <cradek> the stepconf wizard asks you everything (scales, velocities) and writes a complete configuration
[17:10:02] <al> what about graphics cards the latancy site rec. g400 450 matrox but I have no APG slot? will any pci work?
[17:10:26] <cradek> yes a lot of pci cards work fine. in fact those matrox cards are (were) available in pci
[17:10:39] <al> thanks
[17:13:24] <skunkworks> al: if you feel engergetic - there is a lot of info here http://axis.unpythonic.net/0118813410
[17:13:41] <skunkworks> here I mean http://axis.unpythonic.net/01188134101
[17:24:27] <jepler> to use doublestep, the modifications to the ini/hal file are roughly: make BASE_PERIOD larger than max jitter + datasheet steplen + datasheet stepspace + a few more ns. setp parport.0.reset-time to the datasheet steplen in nanoseconds. for each stepgen, add or change these parameter settings: 'setp stepgen.N.stepspace 0' 'step stepgen.N.steplen 1'. For each pin MM which is a STEP signal, add: 'step parport.0.pin-MM-out-reset 1'
[17:25:39] <al> data sheet?
[17:26:04] <al> geckos?
[17:26:05] <jepler> yeah, the data sheet for your stepper driver boards
[17:26:11] <al> ok
[17:29:37] <jepler> bbl, it's lunchtime here
[17:30:04] <al> can I still use a DIR_HOLD time of two period?
[17:39:59] <al> I'm using a BASE_PERIOD of 35000 just know at 31000 I keep geting reltime delay error I have ran tha latancy test for 3-4 min. surfed copy and pasted and the worst numbers I got were 23000ns
[18:53:19] <al> jepler: you there
[19:00:01] <jepler> user_: Max Interval is not the same as 'ovl max' in the rtai latency tester. the column most similar to 'ovl max' is 'Maximum Jitter'.
[19:00:30] <jepler> al: yes, but it's better to just ask your question; maybe other people can answer it even if I'm not around.
[19:02:38] <al> setp stepgen.0.stepspace 0
[19:02:36] <al> setp stepgen.1.stepspace 0
[19:02:36] <al> setp stepgen.2.stepspace 0
[19:02:36] <al> setp stepgen.0.steplen 1
[19:02:36] <al> setp stepgen.1.steplen 1
[19:02:37] <al> setp stepgen.2.steplen 1
[19:03:17] <al> I put this in the corstepper and I get parm or pin not found
[19:03:52] <al> step or pin sorry
[19:04:41] <jepler> welcome to the world of troubleshooting hal files. Here are some techniques I use when faced with errors like that:
[19:05:05] <jepler> * read the relevant documentation for the component I'm having trouble with. In this case, "man stepgen" will show the documentation, and then I can verify that the pin name is spelled right
[19:05:40] <jepler> * in the hal file just before the line with the error, add "show param" (or ("show pin", etc), then look at the output to see if I can spot what the right name was
[19:06:36] <al> error mess hal 83 is this the line
[19:08:20] <jepler> core_stepper.hal:48: parameter or pin 'mumble' not found
[19:08:48] <jepler> this line means that the error was encountered in the file "core_stepper.hal", the line number was 48, and the explanation of the error was "parameter or pin 'mumble' not found"
[19:16:27] <Hugomatic> I just installed EMC 2.2... thank you for all the improvements :-)
[19:16:52] <jepler> hi Hugomatic -- I hope the upgrade works for you
[19:18:31] <user__> jepler: thanks ! I was reading the archive
[19:18:32] <Hugomatic> I do have a question about the tool table: what are "machine units"? And what happens when I run a g20 file and then a g21 file: do I need a metric and an imperial tool table file?
[19:19:31] <jepler> Hugomatic: "machine units" are the ones you use in your inifile
[19:20:09] <Hugomatic> jepler: I like the on screen limits and the image-to-gcode improvements
[19:20:41] <jepler> Hugomatic: the changes in 2.2 to the tool table are specifically so that you don't have to have different tool tables or tool table entries for g20 files and g21 files
[19:21:11] <jepler> Hugomatic: in 2.2, if your inifile is in inches, then your tool table is in inches, and tool offsets will work right in g20 files and g21 files
[19:22:44] <Hugomatic> Jepler: excellent: my Sherline mill is metric, so if my tool table file is in mm (even though most of my end mills are inch), then I won't have to worry. Thank you for the clear up, it all makes sense now :-)
[19:23:18] <jepler> Hugomatic: oh good, I wasn't sure if my explanation was any good
[19:23:58] <jepler> al: any luck yet?
[19:30:12] <Hugomatic> This weekend I am bringing my mini mill and emc laptop to a train/car modeler meeting in Montreal. Do you know of good ngc and png (for image-to-gcode) sample files?
[19:36:00] <fenn> i just got some diametrically polarized magnets for use with the magnetic encoder chips, and boy are they fun to play with: http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/magnets1.jpg http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/magnets2.jpg
[19:37:45] <fenn> usually it only contacts the surface at three points so the whole thing jiggles when you poke at it
[19:38:53] <jepler> Hugomatic: I'd also like to hear about good images for image-to-gcode
[19:46:36] <lerneaen_hydra> random question; wouldn't it be very easy to read servo-encoders at high speeds with a quadrature -> step/dir logical unit and a full adder (with a suitable number of bits), connected in parallel to the parport? (where the quad->step/dir and adder is physical logic)?
[19:48:18] <Hugomatic> jepler: I found a fabric "bump map" at this location: http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~fine/POV/fabric.html. Have a look at the 100x100 black and white weave pattern.
[19:49:31] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: so for instance as the motor turns clockwise the value on the parport pins d0..d7 would go 0, 1, ..., 255, 0, ... and when going counterclockwise it would go 0, 255, ..., 1, 0, ... ? I think that would work -- elson's usc and the pluto are just very glorified versions of this.
[19:49:50] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler, yes, exactly like that
[19:50:41] <lerneaen_hydra> and you'd make it so that the number of bits is large enough so that it can't go past 1/2 the total number of states per base_period (otherwise you won't know which direction it turned)
[19:51:09] <lerneaen_hydra> so in reality it might go 0, 30, 55, 100, 150, 220, 31
[19:51:26] <lerneaen_hydra> going from 0 to 130 directly though is not good
[19:52:37] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: yes
[19:52:51] <fenn> one minor annoyance is that up/dn counters only come in 4-bit varieties it seems
[19:52:52] <jepler> well, you would have to interpret that as turning counterclockwise 126 units
[19:53:06] <lerneaen_hydra> fenn, yeah but you can daisy chain them
[19:53:19] <Hugomatic> General question: is EMC2 compatible with the CNC steppers interface from fpga4fun.com?
[19:53:38] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler, yes, that's what the program would interpret it as, in reality you wouldn't know what happened
[19:53:46] <jepler> next you'll need some circuitry to have several counters with only one driving the data lines at a time .. soon you'll have invented EPP
[19:54:15] <lerneaen_hydra> heh
[19:54:18] <jepler> Hugomatic: short answer: no
[19:54:25] <lerneaen_hydra> how fast are hardware counters?
[19:54:33] <lerneaen_hydra> nS range?
[19:54:36] <fenn> in the tens of MHz
[19:54:42] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, nice
[19:54:44] <lerneaen_hydra> fast enough then
[19:55:04] <jepler> Hugomatic: longer answer: emc 2.2 has fpga firmwares for the currently-unstocked pluto-p board for control of servo systems (well tested and stable) and stepper systems (alpha-quality, some users have reported serious problems)
[19:55:08] <fenn> alternatively, as fast as you are willing to pay for
[19:56:09] <fenn> lerneaen_hydra: one thing i'm investigating soon is "magnetic encoders" which sense the rotational angle of the shaft, so you dont need fancy hardware to count ticks
[19:56:29] <fenn> or optical encoders..
[19:56:30] <lerneaen_hydra> fenn, they measure velocity?
[19:56:52] <fenn> no, they measure the magnetic field with 8 hall sensors and figure out which way the magnet is facing
[19:57:00] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, ok
[19:57:08] <lerneaen_hydra> so only 256 steps/rev?
[19:57:21] <fenn> they come in 8 10 and 12 bit from what i've seen
[19:57:44] <fenn> the 8 sensors is just a coincidence
[19:58:04] <lerneaen_hydra> oh right
[19:58:26] <lerneaen_hydra> I've never seen a "standard" encoder, are they glass-optical?
[19:58:30] <lerneaen_hydra> or something else?
[19:58:35] <Hugomatic> jepler: thanks. I'm fiddling with fpgas in my spare time, so I'll have a look at the pluto firmware. I'd love to have a USB controller, because par ports are hard to find these days.
[19:58:42] <fenn> sometimes, sometimes they are a thin sheet of photo-etched metal
[19:59:00] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, with holes and optical sensors?
[19:59:35] <fenn> yes the etched part goes all the way through, but 'holes' might be the wrong word
[19:59:52] <lerneaen_hydra> ok, small slits far longer than their width
[19:59:55] <fenn> yes
[20:00:44] <lerneaen_hydra> are there any velocity based "encoders" (they wouldn't be called encoders probably though), not that I can easily imagine hardware that would be velocity based
[20:00:51] <lerneaen_hydra> at least not an accurate one
[20:01:00] <cradek> sure they're called tachometers
[20:01:09] <fenn> and there are many varieties
[20:01:16] <skunkworks> lerneaen_hydra: this is one flavor http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/Endoder1.JPG
[20:01:37] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek, aren't they relatively innacurate
[20:01:53] <fenn> they're used for measuring velocity, at which they do a good job :)
[20:01:54] <lerneaen_hydra> I'd at least think that they're not completely linear
[20:02:12] <lerneaen_hydra> what with the induced current and drag
[20:02:19] <lerneaen_hydra> skunkworks, ah, nice
[20:02:55] <lerneaen_hydra> skunkworks, nice re-use of a computer chassis led connector/cable
[20:03:02] <fenn> lerneaen_hydra: there are times when the quantization of an encoder is a problem, and you need an analog tachometer
[20:03:21] <fenn> also they were often used in combination with glass scales on the table, to account for backlash (and prevent the motor from hunting)
[20:03:52] <skunkworks> yes :) http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/Encoder.JPG
[20:04:58] <lerneaen_hydra> yes, true, but I doubt that they can be good at standstill, what with the rotation being the integral of the speed (only a small error leads to a large movement over time)
[20:05:30] <fenn> lerneaen_hydra: nobody uses them to measure position
[20:05:55] <lerneaen_hydra> right ok
[20:06:01] <fenn> perhaps you are thinking of something like an inertial measuring unit
[20:06:35] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm I can't say I've heard of that before
[20:06:51] <fenn> integrate the signal from an accelerometer to get velocity and position
[20:07:44] <lerneaen_hydra> ok, so you'll need to null/set position and speed from time to time
[20:08:00] <fenn> sure
[20:08:19] <fenn> not very useful in machine tools
[20:08:37] <lerneaen_hydra> right
[20:15:33] <JymmmEMC> yo
[20:20:55] <skunkworks> JymmmEMC!
[20:21:10] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks: how goes it
[21:11:29] <al> #double step changes Al's
[21:11:27] <al> setp stepgen.0.stepspace 0
[21:11:27] <al> setp stepgen.1.stepspace 0
[21:11:27] <al> setp stepgen.2.stepspace 0
[21:11:27] <al> setp stepgen.0.steplen 1
[21:11:29] <al> setp stepgen.1.steplen 1
[21:11:31] <al> setp stepgen.2.steplen 1
[21:11:33] <al> setp parport.0.reset-time 4500
[21:11:35] <al> setp parport.0.pin-03-out-reset 1
[21:11:37] <al> setp parport.0.pin-05-out-reset 1
[21:11:39] <al> setp parport.0.pin-07-out-reset 1
[21:11:49] <al> changes to my hal file
[21:12:35] <al> now I only get 60% step ratio
[21:13:58] <al> is it my gecko 20us hold time getting missed?
[21:15:07] <cradek> steplen = 1 is surely wrong
[21:15:37] <al> meaning 1
[21:16:08] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?UPDATING
[21:18:49] <al> i'm there now It doesn't mention steplen ony step space
[21:19:38] <cradek> The units for steplen, stepspace, dirsetup, and dirhold have been changed from BASE_PERIOD units to nanosecond units. Internally, the values given are rounded up to a multiple of BASE_PERIOD, and at runtime the parameters are changed to display the rounded up value.
[21:19:45] <cradek> (1.3)
[21:19:50] <cradek> you have set them to 1 ns
[21:21:00] <al> use my gecko 4us pulse time here?
[21:21:19] <cradek> yes sounds like
[21:21:40] <al> i'll give it a shot
[21:22:03] <cradek> ok good luck
[21:25:52] <al> i put 4100 in there and got the same results
[21:34:45] <jepler> al: what do you mean by "60% step ratio"?
[21:36:06] <al> it only moves say 40% of the intended move
[21:37:48] <al> .4 out of 1."
[21:40:49] <cradek> did you addf parport.0.reset?
[21:41:39] <al> no
[21:41:46] <cradek> I bet that's the problem
[21:41:53] <cradek> addf it to the base thread
[21:42:05] <al> ok
[21:42:13] <al> thanks
[21:42:17] <cradek> I'm not sure what the ideal order is...
[21:42:49] <cradek> (none of the sample configs appear to use doublestep, which might be considered a bug)
[21:43:41] <al> whats that
[21:44:06] <cradek> what's what?
[21:44:22] <al> sample configs
[21:44:37] <cradek> the configs we distribute as samples
[21:44:40] <jepler> cradek: for doublestep, the correct stepspace is 0 (step pulses may occur on subsequent BASE_PERIODs) and the correct steplen is 1 (smallest nonzero step length). This assumes that steplen + stepspace + latency is less than one BASE_PERIOD
[21:45:10] <cradek> oh did I give crap advice? sorry
[21:45:34] <al> Iwent back to one
[21:45:46] <jepler> cradek: 4000 or 1 would have the same effect, as long as BASE_PERIOD is above 4000
[21:45:48] <cradek> are geckos the most "needy" common drives?
[21:46:11] <cradek> if so, maybe our stepper sample config should do gecko timings with doublestep
[21:46:46] <cradek> forget it - stepconf will fix all of this.
[21:46:53] <jepler> .reset should be late in the thread. I think that stepconf places it last.
[21:47:22] <jepler> in theory you want to fine-tune it by looking at the typical run times of the other things in the function, and placing it where .reset-time has probably passed, but not by much
[21:47:51] <jepler> (because when reset happens late, it has the effect of decreasing stepspace)
[21:48:04] <cradek> I see
[21:48:35] <al> do you think im missing my 20us hold time?
[21:50:12] <jepler> that's controlled by .dirhold and .dirsetup
[21:50:22] <al> i'm also using 70000 DIR_HOLD
[21:50:51] <jepler> then without evidence to the contrary, I'd assume it's fine
[21:51:00] <al> ok
[21:51:08] <jepler> missing the "addf parport.0.reset" is enough to explain the machine moving wildly wrong distances
[21:52:16] <SWPadnos> al, do you have step multipliers in your drives (G340 or G210)?
[21:52:41] <al> 210s
[21:52:48] <al> 10x
[21:53:09] <SWPadnos> ok. how recent are they?
[21:53:25] <SWPadnos> I think the 20 us dir setup time may be overkill
[21:53:34] <al> 2yrs
[21:53:38] <SWPadnos> (though it won't matter much, since that's only applied at direction reversals)
[21:53:49] <al> the data sheet call for it
[21:53:54] <SWPadnos> hmm. ok. I don't know if those use the newer pulse multiplier circuit
[21:53:56] <SWPadnos> ok
[21:54:04] <SWPadnos> best to be safe then
[21:54:11] <eric_1> tomp really here?
[21:54:29] <jepler> increasing dirsetup and dirhold will not have a huge effect on step rate unless you make them really crazy values
[21:54:45] <SWPadnos> right - won't matter much
[21:55:26] <al> the addf parport.0.reset want an argument reset time?
[21:55:52] <eric_1> spun steppers using emc for the first time today, very exciting
[21:55:53] <SWPadnos> reset time should be set to the step pulse width of the geckos, 2 or 2.5 us
[21:56:18] <jepler> al: the full line would be: addf parport.0.reset base-thread
[21:56:32] <al> ok
[21:57:00] <SWPadnos> and it must be after the addf parport.0.write function, preferably at the end of the thread
[21:57:33] <SWPadnos> so the order of functions is somewhat different - you start with the parport.0.write, then do "all the other stuff", then the parport reset
[21:58:10] <al> bingo
[21:59:47] <skunkworks> eric_1: great news :)
[21:59:54] <al> jeff you threw me a curve with the step and not setp
[22:00:17] <jepler> al: that's a typo I make all the time -- sorry for the confusion :(
[22:00:34] <al> thank you so much
[22:00:42] <jepler> al: is it working yet?
[22:00:50] <al> looks so
[22:01:08] <al> and she's sailing
[22:01:15] <jepler> good
[22:01:43] <cradek> were your velocities limited by step rate before?
[22:01:54] <al> dinner si calling my name thanks to all you EMC Guys
[22:02:42] <cradek> I wish dinner would call my name...
[22:03:01] <skunkworks> vending machine has already called and been answered
[22:07:48] <SWPadnos> cradek, I thought you were a vegetarian :)
[22:10:12] <jepler> SWPadnos: I was thinking of saying a very similar snark..
[22:10:26] <eric_1> need a third stepper drive
[22:10:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:14:17] <eric_1> I wish I'd noticed that Mesa makes a screw terminal version of the 7i37 and 7i33, can't really justify buying them now that I have the idc versions
[22:14:30] <SWPadnos> well, it's not as rosy as you might thing anyway
[22:14:34] <SWPadnos> think
[22:14:51] <eric_1> really?
[22:15:03] <SWPadnos> the screw terminals don't come with them. When I had to buy them, the terminals were $22 each (*2 per board)
[22:15:09] <SWPadnos> right, it's got headers, not terminals
[22:15:29] <eric_1> that adds up
[22:15:36] <SWPadnos> Pete W said that they're now $10-12 or so at DigiKey, since he mentioned tha Avnet had them at that price
[22:15:43] <SWPadnos> I know. I have 5 of them
[22:15:51] <SWPadnos> and I even have extra terminal strips
[22:15:59] <eric_1> you guys got your boards cheaper than I did though
[22:16:01] <SWPadnos> the other problem is that the terminal headers are a little bit close together
[22:16:17] <SWPadnos> you have to use a 180 degree one on the inside connector, so the wires point up
[22:16:23] <eric_1> I wondered how that worked out, not a lot of space
[22:16:40] <SWPadnos> the screws aren't accessible when it's plugged in, because they're blocked by the outer terminal strip
[22:16:51] <eric_1> but 4x50 pin ribbon cables are driving me nuts
[22:17:02] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:17:28] <eric_1> I tried putting the 7i33 and 7i37 inside the computer case, it was impossible
[22:17:39] <SWPadnos> indeed
[22:18:34] <SWPadnos> at least with the header versions, you could mount them to any available case area, and run the ribbons out from them
[22:18:39] <eric_1> the way I had it, I had to flip the 50 pin cables on themselves twice, it was about 3 inches thick
[22:18:41] <SWPadnos> that wouldn't work with the terminal versions
[22:18:57] <SWPadnos> yeah, connector orientation is pretty important when making those cables
[22:19:05] <eric_1> you wouldn't want the terminals inside the case
[22:19:10] <SWPadnos> especially if you want strain releifs
[22:19:13] <SWPadnos> heh - nope
[22:20:20] <eric_1> too bad you can't just plug the 7i33 and 7i37 into the ports on the anything board
[22:20:33] <SWPadnos> yeah, though it would still be pretty thick
[22:20:45] <SWPadnos> definitely a 2-slot solution at that point
[22:20:52] <eric_1> I was up to 4 slots
[22:20:54] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:20:59] <eric_1> and it didn't fit
[22:21:15] <SWPadnos> hmmm. it seems you may need to optimize that a little
[22:21:21] <eric_1> I couldn't get the cables out the back of the computer
[22:21:42] <SWPadnos> I have a 5i22 in an embedded system that has almost no space, and it'I have 3 cables coming out just fine
[22:21:45] <eric_1> If only I knew someone with a milling machine
[22:22:01] <SWPadnos> the fourth would be a little cramped, but I could do a cable with no strain releif at nearest the bracket, which would solve that problem
[22:22:05] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:22:16] <eric_1> I'll have to look at that again
[22:22:39] <eric_1> it seemed like it would be fairly easy until i tried it
[22:23:01] <SWPadnos> you have to plug in all the cables before installing the card
[22:23:13] <SWPadnos> then thread them through the slot, then plug in the card
[22:23:40] <eric_1> that's no problem, i wanted the 7i37 and 33 inside the case, then cables running to breakout boards
[22:23:49] <SWPadnos> the 3 cables I have are fairly tall, and have strain relief on them
[22:24:09] <SWPadnos> oh, do you not have connectors on the breakout board end?
[22:24:17] <skunkworks> eric_1: wait - your running steppers and you have a mesa card? 2 different projects?
[22:24:28] <eric_1> i'm multitasking
[22:24:43] <skunkworks> impressive :)
[22:24:47] <eric_1> I'm helping a guy at work build a pcb router
[22:25:08] <eric_1> mill is in my basement with servos
[22:25:42] <skunkworks> nice
[22:25:46] <skunkworks> eric_1: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Og6V-nS2dig
[22:26:42] <eric_1> does flash work on 64bit linux?
[22:27:43] <SWPadnos> hahahahhah
[22:27:46] <SWPadnos> I don't think so
[22:28:18] <jepler> eric_1: you can install 32-bit firefox and proprietary flash plugin if you try hard enough
[22:28:47] <skunkworks> hmm - I don't remember having problems playing youtube videos on dapper
[22:29:03] <eric_1> it's a work computer, not having flash will keep the grad students from wasting time on youtube
[22:29:07] <SWPadnos> hmmm. unless this is a correct solution: http://www.darronschall.com/weblog/archives/000258.cfm
[22:29:18] <SWPadnos> the emc2 dapper install isn't 64-bit
[22:29:38] <eric_1> I'm running fedora
[22:29:38] <skunkworks> I thought it was a linux thing :)
[22:29:42] <jepler> I may have followed something like these directions: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1174435
[22:32:19] <eric_1> I'll check it out at home
[22:32:31] <eric_1> just noticed I'm logged in at home too
[22:38:53] <eric_1> http://www.futurlec.com/StepperMotorController.shtml
[22:45:43] <SWPadnos> considering that ST lists the maximum supply voltage at 46V, and the max current at 2A, I'm not sure I like that futurlec board
[22:46:04] <SWPadnos> people who inflate manufacturer specs don't get much respect from me
[22:46:12] <eric_1> could be a problem
[22:46:32] <eric_1> didn't see any docs either
[22:47:59] <eric_1> i hate to spend much on a controller, I always end up thinking i should buy a gecko
[22:48:40] <jepler> 50V is the "ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM RATING", but 4A certainly isn't (3A non-repetitive is)
[22:48:41] <SWPadnos> well, you could just buy a gecko and save the consternation
[22:48:59] <SWPadnos> the web site listed 46V as the max V
[22:49:14] <SWPadnos> though that was probably "max operating" vs "max ever you dummy"
[22:49:17] <eric_1> that would be pretty nice of me to give away a gecko
[22:49:44] <eric_1> I'd have to look deep inside myself and see if I'm that nice of a person
[22:49:49] <SWPadnos> nevermind
[22:51:25] <jepler> I don't see anything that looks like an L297 or other translator+chopper chip on there
[22:51:43] <eric_1> I didn't either, must not have step and direction inputs
[22:52:12] <eric_1> pretty crude implementation
[22:52:47] <SWPadnos> if it's not step dir, wouldn't it be quadrature (like step phases are)?
[22:52:52] <jepler> datasheet here: http://www.es.co.th/Schemetic/PDF/ET-SMCC.PDF
[22:53:03] <jepler> at least it looks like the same board: http://www.es.co.th/Detail_eng.asp?Prod=ET-SMCC-V2
[22:53:23] <jepler> hmph, calling it a datasheet is not exactly correct
[22:53:55] <SWPadnos> itit's hard to tell what it says
[22:54:08] <eric_1> but I think you've cracked the code, futurlec has most of those boards
[22:57:17] <eric_1> looks like they may be using a 555 for a chopper?
[23:00:21] <eric_1> oh, well, at least I found a substitute for the zeropower ram that dallas semi discontinued orphaning some of my brushless motor drives
[23:00:48] <jepler> in this file: http://www.etteam.com/download/et-smcc%20v2.zip you will find .ASM files that indicate the interface is direct to the L298 control lines (6 of them)
[23:01:10] <jepler> e.g., ;/*=>Motor1 : EN1,EN2,INA,INB,INC,IND */;
[23:01:10] <jepler> ;/* Signal : PA0,PA1,PA2,PA3,PA4,PA5 */;
[23:01:42] <eric_1> not much use then
[23:01:47] <jepler> but that doesn't explain the function of the other IC
[23:02:00] <jepler> no, I wouldn't recommend this board
[23:02:44] <jepler> you might be able to rig it up with 4-phase outputs from emc, but you wouldn't have an effective chopper and you'll use up all your output pins that way
[23:02:56] <eric_1> don't want to do that
[23:02:58] <jepler> hi skunkworks
[23:03:01] <skunkworks> Hi
[23:03:22] <eric_1> too bad I only managed to scrounge 2 stepper drives
[23:04:41] <skunkworks> ebay
[23:05:13] <eric_1> what drive though?
[23:06:13] <skunkworks> yikes - wonder what this will go for http://cgi.ebay.com/Parker-Compumotor-OEM650-Stepper-Motor-Drive-Nema-34_W0QQitemZ180177336680QQihZ008QQcategoryZ78196QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[23:06:40] <eric_1> that's gonna hurt in the end
[23:06:58] <eric_1> 650 would be nice
[23:07:05] <skunkworks> I have had good luck with oem650s
[23:07:26] <eric_1> I have the servo version somewhere in my basement
[23:07:26] <skunkworks> you can usually get them for under $50 if your patient.
[23:07:55] <skunkworks> how many amps are your steppers?
[23:08:38] <eric_1> 2-3
[23:10:41] <eric_1> http://cgi.ebay.com/Applied-Motion-Drive-Motor-HT23-397D_W0QQitemZ220167136233QQihZ012QQcategoryZ78196QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[23:10:50] <eric_1> that's what I'm using on the first two axis
[23:11:35] <eric_1> actually, the version that only has one l298
[23:12:02] <skunkworks> cool - have you thought about xylotex?
[23:12:20] <skunkworks> just don't look at them sideways..
[23:12:36] <eric_1> do they have a single axis version?
[23:12:45] <skunkworks> * skunkworks was just wondering that..
[23:13:10] <jepler> yes I think so
[23:13:31] <jepler> the 3-axis version has a header to pass through two step signals, power, and gnd to some other board
[23:13:45] <jepler> I have a xylotex, haven't pushed it too hard
[23:14:01] <eric_1> I don't think we will push this system too hard
[23:14:08] <jepler> hm, maybe I'm mistaken -- I don't see a 1-axis board on the front page
[23:14:09] <eric_1> pcb mill mostly
[23:14:20] <eric_1> I thought they had one, don't see it either
[23:15:12] <eric_1> connector is just pp passthrough
[23:15:23] <jepler> eric_1: I think it's after the signal conditioning
[23:15:33] <skunkworks> they have a pdf for 1 axis http://www.xylotex.com/1axlayout.pdf
[23:17:35] <jepler> this refers to a 1-axis board with no stock: https://xylotex.sslpowered.com/secure.htm
[23:17:46] <eric_1> someone is selling oem650 for 48$ buy it now
[23:17:47] <jepler> (approximately the same page as http://www.xylotex.com/OrderEntry.htm)
[23:18:23] <eric_1> that would kick a xylotex around the parking lot without breaking a sweat
[23:18:43] <jepler> yeahindeed
[23:18:51] <skunkworks> Yes - I really like the oem650s
[23:18:53] <eric_1> it's in singapore
[23:18:54] <jepler> well, as long as it's not DOA
[23:18:55] <skunkworks> heh
[23:19:03] <eric_1> bummer
[23:19:19] <skunkworks> even the older s drives work good
[23:20:11] <skunkworks> http://cgi.ebay.com/Parker-Compumotor-S-series-S6-Microstepping-Drive_W0QQitemZ110085900057QQihZ001QQcategoryZ71394QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
[23:20:27] <skunkworks> granted - that is way too expensive... but internal power supply
[23:20:50] <eric_1> for that much I could buy another mesa and go brushless
[23:21:31] <skunkworks> * skunkworks ment to keep an eye out for them
[23:21:38] <jepler> mmm servos .. it's like the SLR fof hobbyist machining
[23:22:02] <eric_1> not a camera guy, but I think I know what you mean
[23:22:25] <eric_1> however, ebay allows one to have a huge collection of brushless motors and drives in your basement, ask my wife about that
[23:22:53] <eric_1> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150180080660&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005
[23:23:12] <skunkworks> 27 available.
[23:23:14] <skunkworks> nice
[23:23:54] <skunkworks> calls it a servo drive ;)
[23:25:04] <eric_1> 750 is servo?
[23:25:36] <eric_1> they look exactly the same
[23:26:30] <skunkworks> 750 is also stepper - but It has mid band resinence(sp) dampening.
[23:26:32] <skunkworks> iirc
[23:26:58] <eric_1> 850 then?
[23:27:08] <skunkworks> JymmmEMC has some 750s.
[23:27:13] <skunkworks> I don't know
[23:28:55] <eric_1> looks like the shipping from singapore would be at least 27$
[23:29:25] <jepler> apparently the "OEM770 series" is servo. http://www.compumotor.com/catalog_2002/pgs142_152_oem_servo.pdf
[23:31:11] <eric_1> just reminded me that all those manuals are on the disk of a computer that doesn't boot
[23:32:05] <skunkworks> you can still get them off of compumotors site.
[23:33:35] <eric_1> I pulled some of them off of there by booting with the emc liveCD and using scp, but it was a pain. for some reason I couldn't use scp
[23:34:38] <eric_1> I have a nice collection of manuals, it would be a lot of work to reproduce all those downloads
[23:35:04] <eric_1> bye, thanks for the help
[23:45:37] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks: 650 and 750's
[23:48:36] <JymmmEMC> Still trying to find a good breakout board, but haven't been looking hard lately.
[23:50:14] <jlmjvm> JymmmEMC:What kind of machine you gonna be using?
[23:52:13] <dmess> why is it that, when i seemed to be having a wonderful "take you kid to work day".... my other 16 yr old kid was out getting charged with assault...... I hate days like this...
[23:53:40] <JymmmEMC> jlmjvm: http://k2cnc.com/Machines/CNC-router-KG-2525_detail.asp
[23:54:29] <JymmmEMC> dmess: yeow
[23:54:40] <dmess> sorry just NEEDED to vent that
[23:54:55] <JymmmEMC> dmess: it's all good =)
[23:55:17] <JymmmEMC> dmess: I had a pretty shitty day last night at work too.
[23:55:29] <JymmmEMC> I completely understnad the venting aspect.
[23:55:59] <dmess> little shitt's been eatin' off the STUPID plant lately
[23:56:57] <dmess> what's work entail for you JymmmEMC:
[23:56:57] <jlmjvm> nice looking machine
[23:57:55] <dmess> yes.. most guys just lay plywood or MDA for the table
[23:58:51] <JymmmEMC> dmess: One customer owe's us LOTS of money, so anytime someone needs to enter the bldg, we have to get authorization from the comptroller. I had to call him five times last night, Then one thing we've never done was get credit card, so had to make up an authorization form and have him sign and fax it back, so the first time he......
[23:59:14] <dmess> but theres no EMC2 option ... opps.. duhh
[23:59:53] <jlmjvm> you gonna run emc or mach/