#emc | Logs for 2007-11-06

[01:01:38] <cradek> whew, finally got my car battery replaced
[01:01:47] <cradek> you'd think that would be easy, wouldn't you?
[01:02:35] <toastydeath> i have found that i think most tasks easy until i actually try to do them.
[01:03:05] <cradek> well I've replaced a lot of car batteries, but not on anything made in this godforsaken century
[01:05:06] <cradek> but that aside, I like my car
[01:05:20] <cradek> and it sure cranks faster again
[01:05:51] <tomp> re: halstreamer, any more elaborate explanations than man? the curr-depth & empty pins are understood, but 'pin0' thru 'pin5' leave me guessing.
[01:06:16] <cradek> tomp: I know some of the regression tests use halstreamer - maybe have a peek at how those work
[01:06:36] <tomp> thx... where to look for regression tests?
[01:06:44] <cradek> the source tree under tests/
[01:06:52] <tomp> doh!
[01:06:54] <tomp> thx
[01:06:59] <cradek> no problem
[01:07:33] <SkullWorks-PGAB> * SkullWorks-PGAB remembers batteries in the old VW bugs...
[01:07:43] <cradek> yeah that's worse, I admit
[01:07:51] <cradek> I've done one of those too
[01:11:17] <tomp> flip-flop & and-or-not-mux use streamer
[01:13:37] <tomp> the distributor cap on a honda civic wagovan has to be removed to get the battery out :( and the phillips head screws require a very short driver, because the battery is in the way ( catch 22 )
[01:14:26] <cradek> I worked on a piece of crap once (was it a chevette?) that had the distributor in the back, under a bunch of crap.
[01:14:31] <dmess> craps
[01:14:47] <cradek> I don't remember if the plugs were in the back or if it had 8' plug wires
[01:14:57] <cradek> but, what a pain
[01:15:05] <cradek> uh, why do I work on cars?
[01:15:18] <dmess> chevette starter is a crotch to get out
[01:15:47] <cradek> dmess: it is the chevette with the distributor in the back?
[01:15:53] <SkullWorks-PGAB> I remember those too - and the metal air cleaner housing that was throw away.
[01:16:28] <cradek> a friend had one that kept eating timing belts... you'd be sitting there with it idling, and it would just silently stop.
[01:16:43] <cradek> took us a while to figure out the problem the first time.
[01:17:45] <SkullWorks-PGAB> silently is better thang the big bang ( FIAT 128 ) eating 4 valves and pistons in the process
[01:17:58] <cradek> yeah it was obviously noninterference
[01:18:36] <cradek> interference engines are simply a design mistake :-)
[01:19:48] <eric_u> if you want to change the plugs on our van, first step is to rotate the engine
[01:20:04] <eric_u> even when you do that, you better have long, skinny arms
[01:20:10] <cradek> hah
[01:20:23] <SkullWorks-PGAB> hard to get "proper" compression ratios in a 2 valve motor without it.
[01:20:29] <cradek> maybe $9 each for platinum plugs is ok then...
[01:20:43] <eric_u> yeah, but they are ready to be replaced
[01:20:57] <tomp> far out, the and-or-not-mux is like a peel or pal, fed by a clocked rom
[01:21:22] <eric_u> is there any hope to spin a stepper from the live cd?
[01:21:43] <cradek> eric_u: sure just run the stepper/inch or stepper/mm demo config
[01:22:01] <eric_u> cool
[01:22:07] <cradek> you can even edit the configuration, and then copy it off and save it somewhere
[01:22:31] <eric_u> does it set up a file system in ram?
[01:22:36] <cradek> yes
[01:22:54] <cradek> it's a fully functional system (that goes away when you shut it off)
[01:22:58] <cradek> you can even add/remove packages
[01:23:33] <eric_u> the whole file system is in ram, correct?
[01:23:37] <cradek> yes
[01:23:46] <eric_u> all makes sense now
[01:24:14] <SkullWorks-PGAB> but you could mount other devices
[01:24:26] <eric_u> might not be a bad idea
[01:25:56] <eric_u> I'm trying to build a pcb mill with a guy at work
[01:27:16] <eric_u> he used to use a pcb mill at a previous job
[01:27:50] <cradek> milling pcbs is really nice for prototyping
[01:27:56] <eric_u> the one he used had a solenoid on the z axis
[01:28:12] <cradek> how did it control depth?
[01:28:20] <eric_u> with a screw
[01:28:33] <cradek> vacuum table?
[01:28:36] <eric_u> bolts
[01:28:53] <cradek> I'm surprised that works well enough
[01:28:59] <eric_u> I think
[01:29:00] <cradek> I cut about .003 deep so the board has to be very flat
[01:29:24] <cradek> it's hopeless to just clamp at the edges
[01:29:32] <eric_u> vacuum would be a good idea
[01:29:51] <eric_u> I have a pump, should probably use it
[01:30:53] <eric_u> emc will mill Gerbers, right?
[01:30:56] <cradek> you won't regret making a vacuum table
[01:31:00] <eric_u> just kidding
[01:31:15] <cradek> do you use eagle?
[01:31:26] <eric_u> I have
[01:31:39] <cradek> I use eagle and have a very good gcode export ulp script
[01:31:40] <eric_u> I know there is a plug in for Eagle
[01:32:03] <cradek> lots of people have written gcode export I think, I use one jepler and I wrote
[01:32:19] <eric_u> is it better?
[01:32:29] <cradek> it's the only one I've used so I don't know
[01:32:39] <cradek> I'm sure they all have different features
[01:32:49] <cradek> you'll end up hacking together exactly what you want
[01:33:06] <eric_u> I guess it's like any other post processor, you need one for your cnc
[01:33:36] <cradek> yep
[01:34:00] <eric_u> did you post yours somewhere?
[01:34:08] <cradek> yes but I can't find it
[01:34:14] <cradek> it's gpl
[01:34:31] <eric_u> funny
[01:35:11] <cradek> it was on jepler's cvs server, but jepler has joined a new cult that eschews cvs in favor of other more fashionable revision control systems
[01:35:18] <cradek> not sure if the cvs stuff is still on the web
[01:35:45] <eric_u> subversion is so much better
[01:35:49] <eric_u> but I don't know how
[01:37:27] <cradek> aha! http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/eagle/ulp/
[01:37:38] <eric_u> cool, thanks
[01:37:56] <cradek> I take back what I said about cult etc. :-)
[01:38:26] <cradek> oh I guess I cut .0055 deep for trace isolation
[01:39:03] <cradek> one cool thing about this version is it'll mill larger holes (helical) so you don't need lots of drill bits
[01:39:16] <cradek> you tell it what drills and mills you have
[01:39:55] <cradek> er I guess it uses one mill, you tell it the size, and anything over that size can be milled
[01:40:04] <cradek> for me that's 1/16th
[01:40:23] <eric_u> that's big
[01:40:34] <cradek> yeah most stuff is done with real drills, but mounting holes etc.
[01:41:00] <cradek> http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/eagle/ulp/drill.cfg?rev=1.3
[01:41:09] <cradek> this is the drills I use. it's a good set for a lot of boards.
[01:41:30] <eric_u> hard to mill with a pcb drill
[01:41:31] <cradek> (first column is the drill sizes, cols 2&3 are the range allowed for that drill)
[01:41:41] <cradek> yeah the 1/16 is a real end mill
[01:41:53] <eric_u> that's a lot of drills
[01:42:07] <cradek> many of my boards seem to use 4 drills
[01:42:18] <cradek> and then the end mill for some mounting junk and cutting the board out
[01:42:54] <eric_u> so the columns just mean "if you see a drill between these sizes, cheat" ?
[01:42:59] <cradek> yes
[01:43:11] <cradek> if something asks for a .028 hole, drill it with the .021 drill
[01:43:24] <cradek> but .029-.035 is done with the .029 drill
[01:43:34] <eric_u> if it sees anything else it uses 1/16?
[01:43:51] <cradek> yes anything over .0625 it will cut wiht the end mill in a helix
[01:44:11] <eric_u> nice
[01:44:19] <cradek> it works really nice
[01:44:30] <eric_u> I have the spindle off of a pcb mill, but it uses a 4 phase brushless motor
[01:44:35] <eric_u> can't drive it
[01:44:40] <cradek> yuck
[01:45:06] <cradek> retrofit with air power or something?
[01:45:10] <eric_u> I have some spindles off of a Moore grinder, but I don't know how to use them
[01:45:35] <eric_u> I have the control for that, but it's weird
[01:45:50] <eric_u> and I don't know if I have to give oil in the air or what
[01:46:06] <cradek> usually yes
[01:46:55] <eric_u> so far, all I know about them is they hurt when you drop one on your head
[01:47:06] <cradek> well that's a good start
[01:47:38] <eric_u> and moore used a really unbalance packing system, so they are likely to fall out of the box if it tips over
[01:48:11] <eric_u> then it hits you on the head
[01:48:15] <eric_u> it's a consipiracy
[01:50:51] <eric_u> what kind of spindle do you use?
[01:51:03] <cradek> just a motor geared up to about 20k
[01:51:19] <cradek> it sure could be faster but my bearings are probably rated 10k
[01:53:33] <eric_u> you have any pictures?
[01:53:39] <cradek> timeguy.com
[01:53:44] <cradek> slightly outdated
[01:55:28] <eric_u> so you're using the MaxNC?
[01:55:36] <cradek> for pcbs yes
[01:56:07] <cradek> I replaced the leadscrews since those photos, they are acme now
[01:56:11] <cradek> (with anti-backlash nuts)
[01:56:43] <cradek> backlash is important when you want .008 wide traces
[01:57:09] <eric_u> I think the slides we are going to use are probably good on that score, they have ballscrews
[01:57:22] <cradek> that's good
[01:57:34] <eric_u> worth a try anyway
[01:57:50] <eric_u> nice clocks you got there, I want to do that
[01:57:57] <cradek> thanks
[01:58:14] <cradek> now that I can mill substantial metal, I will make some neat cases for other clocks one of these days
[01:58:18] <eric_u> all my nixie tubes are in working instruments though
[01:58:36] <cradek> I have various clocks that aren't cased yet
[01:59:10] <eric_u> I saw a clock recently that uses a oscilloscope, but it has an analog clock face
[01:59:21] <eric_u> the only problem is the wasted energy
[01:59:39] <cradek> yeah vector displays are fun to play with
[01:59:56] <cradek> I did one of those but drew 'handwritten' numbers
[02:00:05] <cradek> I think that's on the site
[02:01:26] <eric_u> that one was neat
[02:02:17] <eric_u> is the big black box an oven, or is it a transformer?
[02:02:25] <cradek> transformer
[02:02:26] <eric_u> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/clocks/crt-clock.jpg
[02:02:44] <cradek> nasty complex power supply on that thing
[02:03:00] <eric_u> looks neat though, I like the tubes
[02:03:19] <cradek> they're not for looks, they run the screen...
[02:03:26] <eric_u> I figured
[02:04:05] <eric_u> bbl, need to excercise
[03:25:18] <Twingy> fairly certain I can have the PIC control 8 outputs as either stepper or servo now
[03:25:35] <Twingy> going to take advantage of the 4K RAM available
[03:26:27] <Twingy> servos will take a position value [0..199] and steppers will take a # of steps + frequency
[03:26:39] <Twingy> chip will handle acceleration of stepper motor
[03:29:01] <Twingy> steppers should be able to scale from 0.2hz to 1khz
[03:31:21] <SWPadnos> which PIC?
[03:35:23] <Twingy> going to use the 4620 I think
[03:35:34] <SWPadnos> hmmm. is that in a relatively new series?
[03:35:44] <Twingy> been around for a couple years
[03:35:55] <SWPadnos> I stopped using them when the 16F84 was cool :)
[03:36:01] <Twingy> I'm still waiting for CCS to improve their 16-bit line of products
[03:36:41] <SWPadnos> they make compilers?
[03:37:09] <Twingy> yep
[03:37:12] <SWPadnos> ah.
[03:37:25] <SWPadnos> have you tried AVRgcc?
[03:37:30] <Twingy> if I need anything with more unf I'll get a pico-itx
[03:37:38] <Twingy> once I think
[03:37:47] <SWPadnos> heh. long ago or relatively recently?
[03:37:55] <Twingy> probly a year or two ago
[03:38:09] <Twingy> did some avr stuff today actually
[03:38:16] <SWPadnos> ok. I tried it quite a while ago, but I understand there are a lot of improvements since then
[03:38:56] <Twingy> once you learn the tools it's all the same
[03:38:59] <SWPadnos> wow. they make a 32-bit PIC
[03:39:03] <SWPadnos> what a useless invention
[03:39:34] <Twingy> possibly
[03:39:41] <Twingy> not many 32-bit cpus in a TQFP form factor
[03:39:46] <SWPadnos> true
[03:40:01] <Twingy> BGA is a pita
[03:40:10] <SWPadnos> for hand solder certainly ;)
[03:40:42] <Twingy> I do solder paste + griddle method
[03:40:50] <Twingy> I think the results are much cleaner
[03:41:09] <SWPadnos> funny
[03:41:25] <SWPadnos> I think fenn (or someone on here) just told me about that in the last month or so
[03:43:30] <SWPadnos> I think there are a reasonable number of 32-bit ARM variants that are TQFP
[03:56:51] <Twingy> yep
[03:57:22] <SWPadnos> it looks like the Atmel or NXP (and possibly Luminary Micro) chips are in the same price range as the 4620
[03:57:38] <SWPadnos> but they have 32-bit cores and 512k flash
[04:01:36] <tomp> hooray, i got halstreamer to run from a file :) and use Axis as the display
[04:01:59] <SWPadnos> uh - yay!
[05:08:18] <ubuntu606user> Anyone know what package to install to meet dependency ?checking for GtkGLExt - version >= 1.0.0...
[05:08:18] <ubuntu606user> *** pkg-config cannot find gtkglext-1.0 >= 1.0.0
[05:11:52] <SWPadnos> looks like it may be libgtkglext
[05:17:44] <ubuntu606user> Had to turn on repository... got 2.2 running and trying to install gcam
[05:18:20] <ubuntu606user> Thanks for libgtkglext suggestion
[05:19:53] <SWPadnos> sure
[05:20:08] <SWPadnos> incidentally, I found that by typing "ubuntu gtkglext" into google :)
[05:25:58] <ubuntu606user> Having a problem with gtk during make; make install. If anyone has a second to look it's near the end. http://pastebin.org/7191
[08:31:09] <Rabbitbunny> WHat are you guys using for CAD/CAM, I know i've asked before but i can't remember the suggestions.
[08:32:10] <Rabbitbunny> WinXP or Ubuntu6.06, I have both. I'm very accustomed to 3DS MAX usage and I am very slowly getting to know AutoCAD R14,
[08:32:29] <Rabbitbunny> kinda getting itchy to run some of my own g-code through the sim mill.
[09:02:51] <anonimas1> anonimas1 is now known as anonimasu
[09:04:35] <anonimasu> I hope my surface grinder comes today
[10:21:56] <alex_joni> Rabbitbunny: I'm using alibre for 3D cad, there's a free versioin for CAD. and I'm pondering about getting the professional version, which also does CAM
[10:22:25] <alex_joni> Rabbitbunny: http://www.alibre.com/products/xpress/xpress_for_all.asp
[10:23:57] <Rabbitbunny> alex_joni: There's no FOSS CAM solution?
[10:24:02] <alex_joni> (sorry.. the expert version is the one with CAM)
[10:24:10] <alex_joni> Rabbitbunny: no good one afaik
[10:24:19] <alex_joni> some people use vapt for emc
[10:24:41] <Rabbitbunny> hmm, might have to start something.
[10:24:48] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?AptProgrammingForEMC
[10:25:13] <alex_joni> Rabbitbunny: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?Coders_For_EMC-Compatible_CAM
[10:40:44] <Rabbitbunny> alex_joni: thanks for the pointer, i'm wandering around now
[14:50:04] <alex_joni> does any of you know of a metallic lego alternative ?
[14:50:55] <skunkworks_> metal legos? closest thing I can think of is erectoset
[14:51:49] <skunkworks_> http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/erectorset.htm
[14:52:59] <fenn> for making robot stuff? vex is alright
[14:53:00] <alex_joni> hmm.. that's like meccano
[14:53:09] <alex_joni> I need slightly thicker sheets
[14:53:17] <fenn> 80/20 :)
[14:53:27] <alex_joni> I have no idea what that means :P
[14:53:35] <fenn> http://www.8020.net/
[14:53:52] <SWPadnos> The Industrial Erector Set (tm)
[14:54:16] <fenn> its better than erector set because there's no holes
[14:54:30] <alex_joni> I need holes :P
[14:55:16] <SWPadnos> there are holes - you need to either have them drill them or do it yourself
[14:55:57] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: you're no fun :P
[14:56:01] <fenn> step 1) build a plasma table
[14:56:22] <SWPadnos> not enough coffee
[14:56:28] <alex_joni> well.. I did draw the parts I need
[14:56:35] <alex_joni> so I guess I'll have them machined
[14:56:46] <alex_joni> but as I finished, they really look a lot like lego :D
[14:58:44] <skunkworks_> A lot of the machines we buy have a lot of 8020 in them.
[14:58:50] <skunkworks_> suprising.
[14:59:39] <skunkworks_> 10% machined aluminum 20% cast iron and 65% 8020 5% fiddly bits.
[14:59:54] <alex_joni> http://eneas.juve.ro/~juve/New%20Assembly.pdf
[15:00:00] <alex_joni> wonder if anyone can open that :)
[15:00:26] <skunkworks_> that is freaking awsome.
[15:00:28] <skunkworks_> awesome
[15:00:34] <skunkworks_> in a pdf?
[15:01:05] <alex_joni> :P
[15:01:08] <alex_joni> easy to share
[15:01:41] <skunkworks_> that does look a lot like legos
[15:02:43] <skunkworks_> does the free version of alibre do that?
[15:03:00] <fenn> how many do you need?
[15:03:09] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: yup
[15:03:12] <alex_joni> fenn: 2 or 3
[15:03:17] <fenn> alex_joni: ok, here's what you do
[15:03:21] <fenn> take a piece of metal
[15:03:25] <fenn> put it on the drill press..
[15:03:33] <alex_joni> fenn: :P
[15:03:44] <SWPadnos> need big drill bits I'd imagine
[15:03:54] <alex_joni> it's 12x12x60mm (one of the parts)
[15:03:58] <alex_joni> M8 screws
[15:04:09] <SWPadnos> oh, that's tiny
[15:04:11] <alex_joni> not that big drill bits, but it'll look like crap if I do it
[15:04:16] <SWPadnos> I'd use a drill press then ;)
[15:04:49] <alex_joni> well.. I need to sell the final product :D
[15:04:58] <alex_joni> so.. don't think a drill press will work
[15:05:03] <alex_joni> I'll have it CNC'ed
[15:05:15] <skunkworks_> you didn't line up each joint perfectly.. come on now!
[15:05:43] <skunkworks_> ;)
[15:05:43] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: nope.. didn't even try
[15:05:53] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes home :P
[15:23:58] <skunkworks_> ok - 64 deg is a bit cold for my office.
[16:59:39] <Guest441> Guest441 is now known as shunkworks_
[16:59:49] <shunkworks_> shunkworks_ is now known as skunkworks_
[17:16:25] <al> new to irc need some help emc2.2 motion.0.spindle-reverse problem
[17:16:34] <SWPadnos> ask away
[17:18:15] <al> i try to link a pin to parport and i get cant link out pin
[17:20:01] <SWPadnos> is the pin you're trying to link to already connected to some other HAL signal?
[17:21:03] <al> yes halui
[17:21:31] <al> I am trying to use halui.hal config and use my old core stepper and standard pin out
[17:21:50] <SWPadnos> ok. can you put your hal file on http://pastebin.ca ?
[17:22:01] <SWPadnos> then paste a link here
[17:23:05] <al> i have never used paste bin before i'll give it shot
[17:23:37] <SWPadnos> all you need to do is copy the hal file from an editor and paste the text into the input box - should be easy :)
[17:29:16] <al> pinout.hal @ http://pastebin.ca/763667
[17:30:23] <SWPadnos> ok, and if you use that exact hal file, what is the error you get?
[17:30:34] <SWPadnos> (I'm not on an EMC-capable machine at the moment)
[17:31:07] <al> when i changed the forward spindle no prob. but when i changed the rev spindle the halui starts and drops and then no message
[17:33:23] <alex_joni> that's not making much sense to me
[17:33:34] <SWPadnos> ok, it's not just me :)
[17:33:36] <alex_joni> try to be a bit more verbose
[17:33:46] <al> tkemc or axis never start
[17:33:58] <alex_joni> al: you know you can open a terminal from the menu
[17:34:08] <alex_joni> and run emc2 by issuing 'emc'
[17:34:14] <al> no message comes up
[17:34:16] <alex_joni> then you can see all errors reported
[17:34:23] <SWPadnos> I don't see any place in that file where halui is actually connected to anything (they're all commented out)
[17:34:50] <alex_joni> what means "when I changed the rev spindle" ?
[17:34:58] <alex_joni> did you change something else in that file?
[17:35:17] <alex_joni> if so, we want to look at the version that doesn't run.. not the one that you don't need :)
[17:35:53] <al> i'm trying to use halui.hal sample configs
[17:36:18] <alex_joni> al: use how?
[17:38:03] <al> i first try to run my old configs got error so i created new configs file and tried to put my old configs witch ran in 2.17
[17:38:22] <alex_joni> ok, I understand so far :)
[17:38:32] <alex_joni> any idea what the error was?
[17:40:12] <al> as i got errors i address them one by one and i got to the reverse-spindle and got no message
[17:41:28] <alex_joni> you mean you commented stuff out to make it work again
[17:41:45] <alex_joni> and as you uncomment things it stops working?
[17:41:57] <al> it is like halui.hal has the same name as standard pinout.hal
[17:42:44] <alex_joni> I don't remember ever seeing a file called halui.hal
[17:42:50] <alex_joni> it might be one of your own?
[17:42:59] <alex_joni> could you put it up on pastebin.ca ?
[17:43:39] <al> that how i got past forward spinde pin error changed the name from spindle-forward to spindle fowrd
[17:43:55] <al> no i ment halui.vcp
[17:44:35] <alex_joni> halui.vcp ? you mean you are running the VCP-based GUI ?
[17:44:43] <al> yes
[17:44:48] <alex_joni> I see
[17:45:09] <alex_joni> well.. the halui.vcp is only describing the buttons & leds on the interface
[17:45:19] <alex_joni> the actual connections are in halvcp.hal
[17:45:41] <al> you are right again sorry
[17:45:56] <alex_joni> al: can you make an archive of your configuration folder and put it somewhere online?
[17:46:00] <alex_joni> or email it to me?
[17:46:26] <alex_joni> (or if you use pastebin.ca, then I need the : ini, *.hal, *.vcp)
[17:46:34] <al> witch would you like
[17:46:44] <alex_joni> whatever is easier for you
[17:46:48] <alex_joni> easier/faster
[17:46:54] <al> ok
[17:56:31] <al> ini and standard_pinout on paste bin http://pastebin.ca/763688
[17:58:54] <alex_joni> there are a couple of errors there
[17:59:15] <alex_joni> for example: lines 40, 42 and 44 do the same as 46
[17:59:23] <alex_joni> it is a problem if you keep both ways
[17:59:32] <alex_joni> I'd only keep line 46 (the net version)
[18:00:00] <alex_joni> al: I also need you halvcp.hal
[18:00:45] <fenn> you already have Xdir on parport.0.pin-02-out
[18:01:08] <fenn> oops, spindle is on parport 1, nevermind
[18:01:46] <alex_joni> fenn: parport.1
[18:02:06] <al> i comment out spindle rev and ran got more errors
[18:05:31] <al> rtapi kernel module must be loaded error / module hal_lib does not exist in proc/modules
[18:06:00] <alex_joni> al: that sounds like a unclean shutdown
[18:06:01] <alex_joni> try it again
[18:06:25] <al> yes the tkemc wouldn't start
[18:07:53] <al> this time halui came up and left with no message
[18:08:07] <alex_joni> al: did you run from a terminal?
[18:08:13] <al> no
[18:08:27] <alex_joni> on the top menu: Applications->Accessories->Terminal
[18:08:36] <alex_joni> then just write 'emc' and hit enter
[18:08:46] <al> ok
[18:08:55] <alex_joni> the same thing will happen.. like the menu option
[18:09:35] <al> ok then start the config i'm working on
[18:09:39] <alex_joni> right
[18:11:09] <al> Machine configuration file is 'halui.ini'
[18:11:10] <al> Starting EMC2...
[18:11:10] <al> standard_pinout.hal:84: Warning: linkpp command is deprecated, use 'net'
[18:11:10] <al> NOTICE: vcp is obsoleted, please use pyvcp instead
[18:11:10] <al> vcp will probably be removed in version 2.2
[18:11:11] <al> emc/task/emctask.cc 312: interp_error: Unable to open file
[18:11:11] <al> Unable to open file
[18:11:13] <al> emc/task/emctaskmain.cc 2629: can't initialize interpreter
[18:11:15] <al> emc/usr_intf/emcsh.cc 3813: can't connect to emc
[18:11:17] <al> Shutting down and cleaning up EMC2...
[18:11:19] <al> Cleanup done
[18:11:20] <alex_joni> ok, that's easy to fix
[18:11:21] <al> al@al-desktop:~$
[18:11:26] <alex_joni> you need a new var file
[18:11:35] <alex_joni> grab one from the sample configs
[18:11:39] <al> ok
[18:13:32] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingConfigurationsForDevelopmentVersions#Changes_between_2_1_x_and_2_2_x
[18:13:56] <fenn> alex_joni: does it always do that?
[18:14:12] <alex_joni> fenn: if you use an older var file, yes
[18:14:49] <fenn> could we fix the error message to make it more obvious what's wrong?
[18:15:22] <alex_joni> hmm.. actually it should print something else I think
[18:15:46] <al> unexpected runtime delay on task 1
[18:16:32] <alex_joni> al: ouch.. that's a more serious issue
[18:16:35] <alex_joni> does it start up now?
[18:16:37] <al> tkemc did fire this time though
[18:16:47] <alex_joni> I suspect the var file was missing..
[18:16:57] <alex_joni> fenn: it usually says: 'emc/task/emctask.cc 312: interp_error: Coordinate system index parameter 5220 out of range' at startup.
[18:17:23] <al> yes my ini was pointing to stepper.var and sim was there
[18:20:40] <al> emc/task/emctask.cc 312: interp_error: Unable to open file
[18:20:41] <al> Unable to open file
[18:20:41] <al> emc/task/emctaskmain.cc 2629: can't initialize interpreter
[18:20:41] <al> emc/usr_intf/emcsh.cc 3813: can't connect to emc
[18:20:41] <al> Shutting down and cleaning up EMC2...
[18:20:54] <alex_joni> "That's what so stupid about the whole magic thing, you know. You spend twenty years learning the spell that makes nude virgins appear in your bedroom, and then you're so poisoned by quicksilver fumes and half-blind from reading old grimoires that you can't remember what happens next.'
[18:21:08] <alex_joni> al: that's the same error.. are you sure you checked the name this time?
[18:21:30] <al> name of?
[18:21:50] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[18:23:01] <al> name of .var
[18:23:09] <alex_joni> yup
[18:23:22] <alex_joni> and that you're running the proper config..
[18:24:18] <al> sepper.var
[18:24:47] <alex_joni> that's the wrong name :)
[18:24:52] <al> stepper.var sorry
[18:25:30] <alex_joni> how about the index.tbl file?
[18:25:59] <al> ah maybe
[18:27:33] <al> nope its there
[18:28:35] <alex_joni> al: can you send me the whole config dir?
[18:30:02] <al> i just fired it up and no message this time?
[18:30:18] <alex_joni> probably you ran the wrong one last time..
[18:30:26] <al> maybe
[18:30:40] <alex_joni> (the realtime error is something reported by RTAI)
[18:30:57] <alex_joni> maybe it takes some strange circumstances for it to appear
[18:31:01] <al> can i uncomment the spindle and see what gives
[18:31:12] <alex_joni> sure.. why not
[18:31:24] <alex_joni> but I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish
[18:33:20] <al> RTAPI: ERROR: Unexpected realtime delay on task 1
[18:33:20] <al> /etc/X11/app-defaults/TkEmc
[18:33:42] <alex_joni> yeah, there's the error again
[18:33:52] <alex_joni> that means there's something not quite right with your PC
[18:34:07] <alex_joni> that error *might* go away if you use a smaller base period
[18:34:37] <SWPadnos> larger
[18:34:43] <alex_joni> or if you look at other causes here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting#Unexpected_realtime_delay_check_dmesg_for_details
[18:34:48] <alex_joni> yeah, larger.. sorry :D
[18:35:05] <al> 28000ns
[18:35:18] <alex_joni> al: onboard graphics?
[18:35:43] <al> yes
[18:35:51] <alex_joni> check that link
[18:35:57] <al> it ran 2.17
[18:36:20] <SWPadnos> you're running from the terminal for the first time. you may have been getting these errors before, but just not knowing about it
[18:36:32] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I think it pops an error up too
[18:36:33] <al> ok
[18:36:44] <alex_joni> but in 2.2.x the error detection is a bit better
[18:36:52] <SWPadnos> could be, but I don't think I've ever seen a popup (dunno)
[18:37:12] <al> i ran with a idr hold of 2 periods before
[18:37:33] <SWPadnos> that has no effect on the realtime error message
[18:37:53] <al> only 38 ipm
[18:38:21] <SWPadnos> I think I went through those numbers, and you should be getting 43 IPM or thereabouts
[18:38:31] <SWPadnos> you have 25000 steps/inch, right?
[18:38:41] <al> how about head room
[18:38:46] <alex_joni> yup.. 25k in the ini
[18:38:46] <SWPadnos> ok, there is that :)
[18:38:49] <al> yes
[18:39:14] <alex_joni> well, doublestep might make it better
[18:39:32] <al> that what i'm hoping
[18:39:37] <alex_joni> but I never tried it.. so maybe SWPadnos or jepler can advise you there
[18:39:45] <SWPadnos> never used it
[18:39:56] <SWPadnos> how could you think that I would use a parport?
[18:39:57] <SWPadnos> the nerve!
[18:40:11] <al> looking forward to it
[18:41:26] <al> i'll look the link over
[18:45:28] <skunkworks_> parports are just fine. get over it.
[18:45:56] <skunkworks_> I tested doublefreq - worked great. (I winged it a bit)
[18:46:17] <SWPadnos> well, I could use a parport for my USC (or some other FPGA device), but that's as far as I'm willing to go
[19:08:51] <alex_joni> bbl
[19:45:39] <tomp2> where can i find rugludallur's new thc diagram? he did one in OO that i cant find readily, and the wiki's is the older visio version.
[19:48:20] <jepler> maybe it's this file? (try clicking "download"): http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/configs/plasma-thc/THCDesign.odg
[19:53:25] <tomp2> yep,iwasjustpastingit...thanksdanthiskeyboard http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/emc2/configs/plasma-thc/THCDesign.odg
[19:53:47] <cradek> haha
[19:54:10] <tomp2> other keyboard... thanks
[20:32:10] <al> why does it take like 10 min,s or so to get rtapi error: unexpected realtime delay on task 1
[20:34:35] <al> i bumped up my base_period to 30000
[20:36:49] <fenn> what were you doing when you got the error?
[20:37:44] <fenn> or does it happen every 10 minutes exactly? or does it happen when the screen-saver comes on?
[20:39:34] <al> nothing
[20:39:54] <al> emc sitting idle
[20:40:53] <fenn> try running the latency test
[20:41:25] <al> just tring to get it configed latancy 22000
[20:42:20] <fenn> the test can help you figure out what's causing problems
[20:42:25] <al> intel on board graph
[20:43:33] <al> it starts at say 15000 and climbs to 22000 in about 2min's
[20:44:44] <fenn> that's not particularly good
[20:45:25] <al> it ran ok in 2.17 at 28000 base
[20:46:38] <al> start looking for a APG for it?
[20:46:48] <fenn> i dont know
[20:47:53] <al> just seem odd the error doesn't pop up right away
[20:49:16] <SWPadnos> it's dependent on a number of things, so you can be lucky for a long time, then get unlucky later
[20:52:11] <al> that config problem earlier must of been just the .var file and the name of the sindle-forward pin as i now can use my earlier config file
[20:52:27] <SWPadnos> great
[20:53:50] <al> you think its my on board 810 intel thats giving me such large latancy?
[20:55:04] <SWPadnos> that's often a culprit
[20:55:23] <SWPadnos> you can stick a $5 PCI Matrox card in the machine and see if it stops happening
[20:55:36] <al> hey I forgot to thank you SwPadnos and Alex for the help earlier
[20:56:37] <al> Ebay Matrox pci?
[20:58:15] <al> Thank you all
[20:59:31] <jepler> in emc 2.2, if the underlying realtime kernel reports a missed deadline, it's immediately reported. In emc 2.1, a different method was used that in general led to fewer messages.
[21:02:53] <LawrenceG> fenn: just got my magnetic encoder samples from austria.... fedex and customs each took a piece of my wallet :{
[21:24:50] <MASEngr> Hello. If I have a question about AXIS, is this the appropriate channel?
[21:26:16] <cradek> yes
[21:27:04] <MASEngr> Okay, great. I want to change the spindle speed parameters so that when the users click + or - on spindle speed, it goes up by more.
[21:27:30] <cradek> MASEngr: the easiest solution would be to upgrade to emc2.2.0 which was recently released
[21:27:31] <MASEngr> My boss is asking for an increase of 50x the default, so that each click is the same as clicking it 50x.
[21:27:51] <cradek> it makes the speed change by 100rpm
[21:29:03] <MASEngr> Ah, what does 2.1.7 change it by?
[21:29:11] <jepler> 1rpm
[21:29:11] <cradek> just 1 rpm I think
[21:29:18] <cradek> it's bogus
[21:29:48] <MASEngr> Yeah, that's why they want me to change it.
[21:30:12] <MASEngr> Is there an easy upgrade, or would I have to set up the machine again?
[21:30:28] <jepler> it's pretty easy as long as you're on the internet.
[21:31:02] <MASEngr> Do you mean easy as in "I can ask for help" or easy as in "it keeps all the configuration files"?
[21:31:31] <jepler> both
[21:32:56] <jepler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.2
[21:34:02] <alex_joni> you will have to adapt a couple of your configuration files, but nothing too hard
[21:39:51] <MASEngr> If I didn't do the last setup, and I haven't worked with EMC before, and there's nobody here to ask (except you guys), how long do you estimate? Assume that I'm not quite as dumb as that last sentence makes me sound. ;)
[21:40:51] <cradek> that's hard to guess
[21:41:27] <alex_joni> shorter than a fortnight
[21:41:50] <MASEngr> I mean is it a 2-hour job or a two day job?
[21:42:09] <cradek> more like 20 minutes if you read the instructions and can follow them
[21:42:25] <cradek> (did you read that link yet?)
[21:42:45] <cradek> it also depends how complex the existing setup is
[21:43:58] <MASEngr> Yes, I just read it. It seems reasonable, but I've been hurt real bad by upgrades that seemed innocuous at first glance. Since nobody is saying something like "oh, it's horrible", then it should be fine.
[21:44:43] <MASEngr> The system is just a simplish 3-axis milling machine. It was _just_ upgraded to EMC control a month ago.
[21:45:23] <cradek> if it has spindle speed control, it's not a super trivial setup though
[21:45:24] <skinnypuppycnc> I used the script install last night , worked fine after editing sources.list and changing 2.1 to 2.2 on the last two lines
[22:02:02] <MASEngr> Well, here's another great question: Where are all the config files?
[22:03:10] <SWPadnos> err - the new config files, or the ones you use for your config?
[22:03:49] <SWPadnos> (new also meaning the sample configs that are installed with EMC2)
[22:04:11] <MASEngr> The existing ones. I want to back them up first.
[22:05:03] <SWPadnos> they're selected wither when you run EMC2 (using the config picker), or it should be part of the icon used to start EMC2 - it'll say something like emc /path/to/the/config/dir (or similar)
[22:05:07] <SWPadnos> either, not wither
[22:07:56] <alex_joni> MASEngr: usually they should be in ~/emc2/configs/
[22:10:06] <cradek> http://www.shinyobjectdesign.com/staff/paul/sbvideo/
[22:15:53] <MASEngr> Thanks for the link, but I'm not sure if we'll downgrade that far. :D
[22:20:57] <skinnypuppycnc> Old iron makes me grin, thanks cradek nice surprize
[23:00:04] <jlmjvm> jepler:i have a question about 2.2
[23:04:24] <jlmjvm> can you still use 1 switch for home and limit?
[23:08:23] <alex_joni> sure, why not?
[23:08:55] <jlmjvm> thanks alex
[23:10:34] <jlmjvm> cant wait till the iso is ready
[23:11:15] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: any reason for that?
[23:12:32] <jlmjvm> never done a build before
[23:13:03] <jlmjvm> my inexperience is the reason
[23:13:19] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: and your PC is not connected to the internet?
[23:13:37] <jlmjvm> yes,im connected
[23:13:39] <alex_joni> you can easily upgrade the emc2 package..
[23:13:43] <alex_joni> no need for a new iso
[23:13:49] <skinnypuppycnc> If I can do it .. ;o) Install script only took a few minutes after changing sources.list
[23:13:52] <jlmjvm> oh really
[23:14:04] <MASEngr> I've tries using live disks for installation and upgrades. They tend to be certified as "Works on My Machine". http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000818.html
[23:14:13] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.2
[23:14:47] <alex_joni> MASEngr: our primary install method is based on a livecd
[23:14:56] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingTo2.2
[23:15:25] <jlmjvm> lemmee give it a shot
[23:20:28] <skinnypuppycnc> Does the stepconf wizard work? I don't need it, but nothing happens when I click its icon
[23:20:58] <alex_joni> it should work..
[23:21:45] <alex_joni> skinnypuppycnc: try running 'stepconf' from a terminal
[23:21:52] <alex_joni> and see what errors that gives
[23:22:50] <skinnypuppycnc> it's 6 or 8 lines worth , want it here or pastebin alex?
[23:23:15] <alex_joni> here
[23:23:25] <skinnypuppycnc> user@user-desktop:~$ stepconf
[23:23:25] <skinnypuppycnc> Traceback (most recent call last):
[23:23:25] <skinnypuppycnc> File "/usr/bin/stepconf", line 1517, in ?
[23:23:25] <skinnypuppycnc> app = App()
[23:23:25] <skinnypuppycnc> File "/usr/bin/stepconf", line 819, in __init__
[23:23:24] <skinnypuppycnc> glade = xml.dom.minidom.parse(os.path.join(datadir, self.fname))
[23:23:28] <skinnypuppycnc> File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/_xmlplus/dom/minidom.py", line 1915, in parse
[23:23:28] <skinnypuppycnc> return expatbuilder.parse(file)
[23:23:30] <skinnypuppycnc> File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/_xmlplus/dom/expatbuilder.py", line 924 , in parse
[23:23:32] <skinnypuppycnc> fp = open(file, 'rb')
[23:23:34] <skinnypuppycnc> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/bin/../share/emc/stepconf.gl ade'
[23:24:09] <alex_joni> is there a space in the 'gl ade' name?
[23:24:47] <skinnypuppycnc> IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/bin/../share/emc/stepconf.gl ade'
[23:25:21] <alex_joni> grmpf
[23:25:54] <skinnypuppycnc> looks to be a copy paste error not there when full screen term
[23:26:29] <alex_joni> aha
[23:26:46] <alex_joni> still the /usr/bin/../share/emc/ part is dubious
[23:30:26] <alex_joni> seems it's a packaging prblem
[23:31:26] <skinnypuppycnc> No biggie for me just thought I let people know it was there
[23:31:37] <alex_joni> great :)
[23:31:40] <skinnypuppycnc> AXIS Smokes though !!!!
[23:31:53] <skinnypuppycnc> Kudos to all the hard work in 2.2 !
[23:45:43] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/764138
[23:46:10] <jlmjvm> alex,im getting this error when i try to start emc2.2
[23:46:22] <alex_joni> line 356: emc.nml: No such file or directory
[23:46:30] <alex_joni> seems your folder doesn't have emc.nml ?
[23:47:52] <jlmjvm> shows 1
[23:48:17] <alex_joni> 312: interp_error: Coordinate system index parameter 5220 ou t of range
[23:48:31] <jlmjvm> its set at 0
[23:48:45] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UPDATING#Changes_between_2_1_x_and_2_2_x
[23:53:24] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/764153
[23:54:06] <jlmjvm> i put the new .nml in and got this
[23:54:20] <alex_joni> there was no emc.nml before?
[23:55:17] <jlmjvm> yes there was a nml before
[23:55:30] <alex_joni> get a fresh emc.nml from /etc/emc2/sample-configs/emc.nml
[23:55:38] <jlmjvm> k
[23:55:46] <alex_joni> get a fresh emc.nml from /etc/emc2/sample-configs/common/emc.nml