#emc | Logs for 2007-10-07

[00:13:26] <Ziegler> http://images.myonlinesite.com/cnc_mill/video_2/videos.html << first chips... loud
[00:13:30] <Ziegler> err.. .loud video
[00:31:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> servo?
[00:34:30] <Ziegler> no steppers
[00:40:31] <Skullworks-PGAB> Nema 23's?
[00:43:48] <Ziegler> 34
[00:44:26] <Ziegler> http://images.myonlinesite.com/cnc_mill/575b_1.JPG
[00:44:28] <Skullworks-PGAB> that a enco?
[00:45:16] <Ziegler> the mill is a Central Machinery from harbor freight
[00:45:33] <Skullworks-PGAB> round column?
[00:46:09] <Ziegler> yeah... but so far so good
[00:49:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> I want to buy the base for that model to put my X3 on
[00:50:19] <Skullworks-PGAB> the Local HF had them on special for $99 but I had no way to get it home at that time.
[00:51:25] <Ziegler> I dont know if you saw or not... but I got the 2x4 special ;-)
[00:51:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> wood damping?
[00:52:39] <Ziegler> um... sure
[00:52:59] <Ziegler> hehe
[00:53:10] <Ziegler> it was a cheap alternative
[00:57:26] <Skullworks-PGAB> I was thinking of putting heavy casters on the base - move the machine outdoors in good weather.
[00:57:57] <Skullworks-PGAB> so I can run a mist coolant
[00:58:45] <Ziegler> I want to put casters on mine also... but the kind that flip up when I dont need to use them
[00:59:06] <Skullworks-PGAB> mist collects on everything and is a terrible mess - but outdoors the wind will carry most away
[00:59:10] <Ziegler> so the machine can sit
[00:59:31] <Ziegler> I bet
[00:59:53] <Ziegler> my machine isnt all that big... only about 750 lbs
[01:00:07] <Ziegler> but its big enough that its not mobile
[01:00:19] <Skullworks-PGAB> X3 is about 390lbs
[01:00:27] <Ziegler> takes alot of effort for me to move it around
[01:00:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> I bet
[01:01:03] <Ziegler> I like having it though... its a huge upgrade from my router machine
[01:01:26] <Skullworks-PGAB> what are you driving the steppers with?
[01:01:34] <Ziegler> gecko's
[01:01:49] <Skullworks-PGAB> 203v's?
[01:02:22] <Ziegler> ya know... I need to go check for sure.. but I thinkthey are 203's
[01:02:26] <Ziegler> 10 step
[01:02:45] <Skullworks-PGAB> are they red?
[01:02:58] <Ziegler> blue
[01:03:12] <Ziegler> one sec... let me go checl
[01:03:15] <Ziegler> check
[01:05:40] <Ziegler> duh... looked at the website... the 201's
[01:05:46] <Ziegler> guess they are yellow
[01:05:59] <Ziegler> shows ya how observant I am
[01:06:28] <Ziegler> http://www.geckodrive.com/product.cfm?pid=9
[01:06:43] <Skullworks-PGAB> I grabbed 3 of the 203V's and a G320 servo amp during the Aug sale.
[01:06:45] <Ziegler> I am only running them at 48v right now
[01:06:57] <Ziegler> You like them?
[01:07:19] <Skullworks-PGAB> they are just sitting here on the PC
[01:07:51] <Ziegler> so tiny arnt they
[01:08:26] <Skullworks-PGAB> I don't have any stepper projects planned - but for the price... I figured I get them for a rainy day project.
[01:08:38] <Ziegler> how much... if you dont mind me asking?
[01:08:47] <Skullworks-PGAB> 1 sec
[01:10:51] <Ziegler> I bought the machine from a company... who I guess couldnt get more that +/- 0.01" of tollerance out of the machine. when I got it, I just dial gagued it, and turned on backlash compensation. now I have about +/- .002 or less
[01:11:30] <Ziegler> we payed for about what the milling machine cost new... all the rest came with
[01:12:29] <Ziegler> great deak
[01:12:31] <Ziegler> deal
[01:13:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> paid $112 ea for the 203V
[01:13:11] <Ziegler> hey Skullworks-PGAB,,, geckos would make some great tool changers
[01:13:31] <Ziegler> :-P
[01:13:34] <Skullworks-PGAB> $87 for the G320
[01:13:57] <Skullworks-PGAB> list is $147ea IIRC
[01:14:06] <Ziegler> yeah thats not bad skill
[01:14:06] <Skullworks-PGAB> for the 203's
[01:15:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> I'm thinking about a mini lathe conversion - got the G320 as a possible spindle drive...
[01:15:55] <Ziegler> cool
[01:16:39] <Ziegler> my rapids with those 900 oz-in stepper is about 65 ipm.. I have taken it up to 75
[01:16:46] <Ziegler> at 48 volts
[01:17:22] <Skullworks-PGAB> you seen his new voltage formula?
[01:17:30] <Ziegler> whos?
[01:17:33] <Skullworks-PGAB> Mariss
[01:17:44] <Ziegler> no I have not
[01:18:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> Posted by: "Mariss Freimanis" mariss92705@yahoo.com mariss92705
[01:18:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:05 pm (PST)
[01:19:10] <Skullworks-PGAB> The "20 times motor's rated voltage" number was arrived at years ago
[01:19:10] <Skullworks-PGAB> when step motors were round and almost universally 6-wire. It is less
[01:19:10] <Skullworks-PGAB> useful today than it was then. Example:
[01:19:30] <Ziegler> mine are all 4 wire
[01:19:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> 1) A 4Amp 8-wire motor measures 0.5 Ohms unipolar giving 2V as the
[01:19:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> rated voltage. 20 times 2V is 40VDC. In parallel it measures 0.25 Ohms
[01:19:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> giving 1V as the rated voltage. 20 times 1V is 20VDC. There will be
[01:19:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> difference in motor iron-loss heating between parallel and
[01:19:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> half-winding operation. Which supply voltage do you choose as a limit
[01:19:33] <Skullworks-PGAB> then?
[01:20:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> 2) Mfg A makes a 4A 8-wire motor with 100% "copper fill" for the
[01:20:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> stator windings. His motor measures 0.5 Ohms unipolar. Mfg B makes a
[01:20:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> 4A 8-wire motor with 50% "copper fill" for the stator windings; it's a
[01:20:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> cheaper motor that uses smaller gage magnet wire. His motor measures 1
[01:20:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> Ohm unipolar. A's motor has a 2V rating, B's motor has a 4V rating. Is
[01:20:08] <Skullworks-PGAB> it 40VDC or 80VDC maximum supply voltage now?
[01:20:39] <Skullworks-PGAB> "20 times motor's rated voltage" today gives answers that go from
[01:20:41] <Skullworks-PGAB> 20VDC to 80VDC. This is not so good.
[01:20:55] <Skullworks-PGAB> In all the above instances the winding inductance is exactly the same,
[01:20:55] <Skullworks-PGAB> say 1.6mH. The correct number was 40VDC (unipolar voltage, 100% copper
[01:20:55] <Skullworks-PGAB> fill motor). Given that, how can we come up with a better equation?
[01:21:20] <Skullworks-PGAB> Motor power output is proportional to V / SQRT L. If we substitute
[01:21:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> 40VDC and 1.6mH, we get a dimensionless number that equals 1,000.
[01:21:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> Let's rearrange things to get V = 1000 * (SQRT L). It yields the same
[01:21:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> answer for maximum supply voltage as the old "20 times" thing but now
[01:21:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> doesn't require the motor's rated voltage which cannot be depended on
[01:21:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> anymore.
[01:21:56] <Skullworks-PGAB> ..
[01:22:00] <Skullworks-PGAB> V = 1,000 * (SQRT L)
[01:22:00] <Skullworks-PGAB> Maximum supply voltage = 1,000 times the square-root of inductance.
[01:22:00] <Skullworks-PGAB> Try it.
[01:22:00] <Skullworks-PGAB> Mariss
[01:22:00] <Skullworks-PGAB> Addendum:
[01:22:00] <Skullworks-PGAB> If you want to enter inductance in milliHenries then use:
[01:22:02] <Skullworks-PGAB> V = 32(SQRT mH)
[01:23:13] <Ziegler> hmmm
[01:23:16] <Ziegler> intersting
[01:23:17] <Skullworks-PGAB> ..
[01:23:53] <Skullworks-PGAB> quoted the whole post - including date so anyone reading the log can look it up
[01:24:07] <Ziegler> where is that located at?
[01:24:30] <Skullworks-PGAB> the Gecko yahoo group
[01:24:55] <Ziegler> I really should join that group
[01:26:33] <Skullworks-PGAB> are you just driving the acme screws on your mill
[01:26:34] <Skullworks-PGAB> ?/
[01:28:00] <Ziegler> yes.. right now they are acme... I have plans to upgrade to ball screws
[01:28:18] <Ziegler> the z axis is what has me thinking though
[01:29:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> you seen the conversion of that odel ( actual the enco-but its the same)
[01:29:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> model
[01:29:16] <Ziegler> no I have not
[01:29:18] <Ziegler> got a link
[01:29:22] <Skullworks-PGAB> digging
[01:30:59] <Skullworks-PGAB> http://www.homecnc.info/cnc-main.html
[01:31:26] <Skullworks-PGAB> he has a neat quil driven ball screw
[01:31:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> hides the servo up inside the head
[01:32:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> Its the Enco mill/drill link
[01:33:03] <Ziegler> really
[01:33:06] <Ziegler> very intersting
[01:37:48] <Ziegler> I wonder how strong that is
[01:39:50] <Skullworks-PGAB> digg thru that site - mostly old info - he has not updated it much - the video is 2002
[01:40:24] <Ziegler> my stepper is bassically running the micro adjustmen
[01:40:31] <Ziegler> adjustment
[01:40:36] <Skullworks-PGAB> he was using CNCPro back when it was the BEST hobby level controller
[01:41:19] <Skullworks-PGAB> now CNCPro is open source
[01:41:31] <Ziegler> I have mach3 and emc2 on the computer... I would have to say (and I am not brown nosing) I am more comfortable using emc2
[01:41:41] <Skullworks-PGAB> good for quick tests
[01:41:58] <Ziegler> I like how mach3 has all the built in macros
[01:42:16] <Skullworks-PGAB> MACH has a maze of screens to wade thru
[01:42:28] <Ziegler> but emc2 could have that too... if I would get off my ass and start working out some programs
[01:42:30] <Skullworks-PGAB> Macros will come
[01:43:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> I'm planning on trying to port as many of my FANUC and OKUMA macros to EMC
[01:43:36] <Ziegler> yeah?
[01:44:09] <Skullworks-PGAB> But I have been put on a 60+ hr work week - and have not had a spare minute lately
[01:44:33] <Ziegler> yeah... this year has been busy for me also
[01:45:03] <Ziegler> I also am not a programer by trade... so it takes me a bit longer to get things done right
[01:45:08] <Skullworks-PGAB> I'm "out sick" with stomach flu - but I go back to work @ 0430
[01:45:17] <Ziegler> yuck
[01:45:29] <Ziegler> industry?
[01:45:29] <Skullworks-PGAB> worst is over
[01:45:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> I teach robots and setup CNC turning and milling centers
[01:46:29] <Ziegler> nice
[01:46:35] <Ziegler> sounds like a fun job
[01:47:04] <Ziegler> Professional Engineer (civil) here.
[01:47:04] <Skullworks-PGAB> hecktic
[01:47:07] <Ziegler> I bet
[01:47:39] <Skullworks-PGAB> I have people chasing me all over the building
[01:48:31] <Skullworks-PGAB> company tries to run with un-trained operators - so if any thing goes wrong they are clueless
[01:49:27] <Skullworks-PGAB> if the enter the safety area - I have to reset the interlocks and restart the robot feed sequence.
[01:49:44] <Ziegler> :-\
[01:50:55] <Skullworks-PGAB> http://www.skullworks.net/include/DSCF0272.JPG
[01:51:31] <Ziegler> woahh... nice
[01:51:47] <Ziegler> what are those rods?
[01:52:10] <Skullworks-PGAB> reminds me - I need to shoot a pic of that karel GMF robot for Fenn
[01:52:34] <Skullworks-PGAB> the upright silver stuff?
[01:53:21] <Ziegler> ja
[01:54:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> those are formed Aluminum tubes body wall is about .25mm
[01:54:54] <Skullworks-PGAB> we make toner fuser rollers
[01:55:06] <Skullworks-PGAB> copy machines - laser printers etc
[01:56:30] <Skullworks-PGAB> I work here http://mincomfg.com/
[01:56:36] <Ziegler> I seee
[01:59:35] <Ziegler> you use emc at work?
[02:00:16] <Skullworks-PGAB> no - no one there has a clue
[02:01:45] <Skullworks-PGAB> I'm building a few small machines for myself to make some products I used to make when I owned my own biz - that should keep me busy when I go semi retired
[02:01:46] <Ziegler> ah
[02:05:02] <Ziegler> well... I want this mill to start making wax dies
[02:06:57] <jlmjvm> Ziegler:what kind of mill do you have?
[02:07:37] <Ziegler> Central Machinery (harbor freight similar the enco)
[02:07:57] <Ziegler> http://images.myonlinesite.com/cnc_mill/video_2/videos.html
[02:08:07] <Ziegler> first chips today
[02:08:18] <jlmjvm> great
[02:09:25] <jlmjvm> looking good
[02:09:43] <Ziegler> thanks
[02:21:31] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/ (comp.lyx drivers.lyx): trivial formatting
[02:25:34] <jlmjvm> Skullworks-PGAB:did you ever get any of those servo motors?
[02:31:55] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/halmodule.lyx: trivial formatting
[02:34:49] <LawrenceG> anyone built a box with an Intel Core2 Quad? (C2Q)
[02:39:56] <Ziegler> I almost did
[02:40:01] <Ziegler> about 3 weeks ago
[02:40:09] <Ziegler> couldnt decide on a motheboard
[02:40:15] <Ziegler> they still on sale?
[02:44:19] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/halshow.lyx: trivial formatting
[02:44:26] <fenn> jeez they really had a mill for $99 at hf?
[02:45:11] <Ziegler> I think its tiny tiny
[02:45:23] <Ziegler> like 50 lbs
[02:46:59] <fenn> Ziegler you're going to be doing injection moulding with wax?
[02:47:11] <Ziegler> yeah
[02:47:39] <Ziegler> making the molds by hand is a bit tedious
[02:48:34] <fenn> you mean with plaster molds?
[02:48:38] <fenn> or just the pattern makin
[02:48:43] <Ziegler> no aluminum
[02:48:49] <fenn> oh i see
[02:48:58] <Ziegler> meant manual mill
[02:49:13] <fenn> for most things i'd make from wax thats not even possible
[02:49:43] <Ziegler> hows that?
[02:49:51] <fenn> the shape is too complicated
[02:50:14] <fenn> er, complex
[02:50:25] <Ziegler> oh... hehe... you would be surprised at what can be done on a manual mill
[02:51:02] <fenn> how would you cut a turbine blade on a manual mill?
[02:51:14] <Ziegler> I wouldn't
[02:51:18] <fenn> see
[02:51:47] <SWPadnos> to JymmmEMC in case you didn't see it under jymmm - are you running your router with EMC now? :)
[02:51:52] <fenn> you could use a pantograph i guess
[02:51:56] <Ziegler> fenn: no offence intended... but I never said alll things were possible on a manual mill. I only said you might be supprised what a good die maker can do on a manual mill
[02:51:59] <SWPadnos> well, that didn't work, did it? :)
[02:52:10] <Ziegler> there ya go
[02:54:45] <Ziegler> some of our more complex shape where actually plaster carved... to aluminum match plate... to aluminum die
[02:55:40] <Ziegler> fenn: got any examples of the waxes you make?
[02:56:35] <fenn> hah i dont make anything
[02:56:48] <fenn> i used to do some stuff with warhammer 40k figures
[02:57:18] <fenn> using plaster or bondo or silicone molds, and resin of various sorts
[02:57:59] <Ziegler> yup... you and I have probably done similar process for complex shapes
[02:59:58] <fenn> making replicas of injection moulded parts takes a lot of the hard work out of it - you know its going to work
[03:00:12] <fenn> you know where the parting line is
[03:00:17] <Ziegler> heh
[03:01:03] <Ziegler> I enjoy reverse engineering how parts were made
[03:01:15] <Ziegler> especially when casting was involved
[03:11:17] <toast> toast is now known as toastydeath
[04:39:37] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/comp.lyx: trivial formatting
[04:42:12] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/comp.lyx: revert unintended change
[04:53:16] <Skullworks-PGAB> fenn: jeez they really had a mill for $99 at hf? >>> No it was just the base stand - half off the $199 price
[04:57:35] <CIA-8> 03fenn 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/hal_parport_block_diag.dxf: set proper scaling for printed page; increase font size and change style to romand for better legibility
[04:58:17] <fenn> now to get rid of that pesky eps file...
[05:19:26] <CIA-8> 03fenn 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/hal_pid_block_diag.dxf: scale*15, font face = romand, font size * 1.25, set line width 0.25mm
[05:35:20] <CIA-8> 03fenn 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/hal_parport_block_diag.dxf: set line width to 0.25mm, tweak font size and line width for *-invert labels, try to set paper size correctly (lets see if it keeps the portrait setting)
[06:27:07] <fenn> maybe we should make a deb for vec2web
[06:27:48] <fenn> it could be a build dependency for the emc2-doc package :)
[06:43:49] <Jymmm> fenn: why dont you use convert?
[06:44:15] <fenn> convert doesnt handle dxf?
[06:44:42] <fenn> convert: no decode delegate for this image format
[06:44:57] <fenn> it does a much better job of rendering the png though
[06:45:18] <fenn> so i'd use vec2web for dxf -> ps and then convert for ps -> png
[06:45:42] <Jymmm> http://autotrace.sourceforge.net/
[06:45:46] <fenn> oh piss off
[06:46:02] <Jymmm> ah, ok. I thought IM had DXF support. I know it has other vector format support.
[07:10:31] <CIA-8> 03fenn 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/README: qcad isnt all that bad
[07:31:04] <Ziegle2> Ziegle2 is now known as Ziegler
[12:25:14] <jepler> fenn: vec2web is not suitable because it requries an X server connection: http://www.ribbonsoft.com/vec2web_doc_faq.html#3
[12:26:44] <jepler> fenn: that is, it's not suitable for use in the automated build process of a .deb; it would probably still be better than the "clicky" way of creating a .ps from a .dxf now
[12:58:21] <jlmjvm> alex_joni:good morning
[13:01:12] <alex_joni> hi
[13:01:40] <alex_joni> morning jeff, html-docs look great
[13:08:47] <jlmjvm> alex_joni:im trying to figure out how to put a page on the wiki,Click the 'Preferences' link. Choose a name for yourself, and in the box marked 'Administrator Password' enter 'emc'.
[13:09:21] <jepler> alex_joni: thanks
[13:09:33] <jlmjvm> cant find the preferences link
[13:11:16] <alex_joni> EmcKnowledgeBase
[13:11:17] <alex_joni> EmcKnowledgeBase | RecentChanges | PageIndex | Preferences | Upload | LinuxCNC.org
[13:11:25] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: top of every page
[13:11:48] <jlmjvm> EmcKnowledgeBase | RecentChanges | PageIndex | Preferences | LinuxCNC.org
[13:11:49] <alex_joni> it's in a yellowish section with tux on the right side
[13:11:57] <jlmjvm> that is what mine shows
[13:12:05] <alex_joni> I can still see Preferences in yours :P
[13:12:42] <jlmjvm> ahh
[13:16:42] <alex_joni> bbl
[13:29:05] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man1/hal_input.1: note requirement of read/write access
[15:43:53] <skunkworks> run - run - they are multiplying
[15:57:07] <jlmjvm> skunkworks:have you ever used classic ladder?
[15:57:46] <skunkworks> jlmjvm: no - sorry.
[15:58:29] <skunkworks> It has been about 10 years since I have used any ladder logic.
[15:59:24] <jlmjvm> k
[16:00:09] <skunkworks> * skunkworks needs to get back into it for the tool changer amoung other things..
[16:00:35] <jlmjvm> thats what im shooting for
[16:01:55] <jlmjvm> trying to use the stepper cl setup,comes on,no errors,can see the ladder rungs change when estop is pressed,but it doesnt estop emc
[16:20:03] <jlmjvm> does anyone use the stepper cl setup?
[17:06:51] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/config/stepconf.lyx: layout fix
[17:13:28] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/vcp.lyx: layout fixes
[17:15:23] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/vcp.lyx: layout fixes
[17:26:56] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/vcp.lyx: layout fixes
[17:38:01] <skunkworks> http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-5815350492893860613&hl=en
[17:38:16] <skunkworks> sort of miss the exhaust stroke - but neat.
[17:39:29] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/tutorial.lyx: prefer net to newsig+linkXX
[17:41:04] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/tutorial.lyx: layout fixes
[21:04:52] <Paragon37> Hello All Just came across this http://www.freesteel.co.uk/cgi-bin/adaptiverough.py
[21:09:44] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/html/.cvsignore: switch from latex2html to homegrown lyx -> html converter
[21:09:44] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/ (10 files): switch from latex2html to homegrown lyx -> html converter
[21:09:45] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/config/ini_config.lyx: switch from latex2html to homegrown lyx -> html converter
[21:09:45] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/ (configure configure.in): switch from latex2html to homegrown lyx -> html converter
[21:21:22] <jepler> the new, improved HTML documentation for emc 2.2 is now in the regular location: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/
[21:21:56] <jepler> new features include working images, working cross-document hyperlinks, and a Cross Reference Index of all the documentation
[21:25:28] <JymmmEMC> jepler: Does it now include nacho cheese?
[21:25:59] <jepler> JymmmEMC: nah that stuff is nasty
[21:26:31] <JymmmEMC> jepler: That's some good stuff.... almost as good as cheese-in-a-can
[21:27:40] <JymmmEMC> Adn for the ULTIMATE OD of salt/sugar.... 7-Eleven nachos and strawberry milk!
[21:27:59] <JymmmEMC> defibulator not included
[21:28:18] <jepler> ooh strawberry milk
[21:28:54] <skunkworks> I remember as a kid getting sick on nesquick instant strawberry milk mix. Eww
[21:29:07] <JymmmEMC> Used to be my lunch when I worked graveyard at GD
[21:31:42] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/ (lyxtree.py xref.py): fix hyperlinks
[21:41:09] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/l2h.xsl: layout tweaks
[21:41:09] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/common/emc2_introduction.lyx: layout tweaks
[21:41:09] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/main.lyx: layout tweaks
[21:41:10] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/install/ (compiling_emc2.lyx installing_emc2.lyx): layout tweaks
[22:03:03] <stustev> hello
[22:21:27] <cradek> he didn't stay long.
[22:29:39] <cradek> hi stuart
[22:30:35] <stuste1> hi chris I wasn't sure I was connected there doesn't seem to be much conversation
[22:31:22] <cradek> it is a little quiet - I just got here.
[22:31:40] <cradek> it's a nice day to work in the shop. the rain hasn't quite hit here yet but it feels like it's coming.
[22:31:55] <stuste1> how is your machine coming?
[22:32:35] <cradek> not converted to emc yet, but working great as-is
[22:32:51] <cradek> my phase converter failed yesterday and I had to buy a new motor for it (just the starter, not the work motor)
[22:33:01] <cradek> but that's the only problem I've had lately
[22:33:23] <cradek> I'm keeping an eye out for a suitable transformer to convert it to single phase, to eliminate that ongoing headache
[22:34:31] <stuste1> there is always something to buy or fix to keep things going
[22:34:40] <cradek> yep
[22:34:42] <stuste1> what are the specs of the transformer?
[22:35:13] <cradek> 4kva, 220v 1ph primary, 72v secondary
[22:35:32] <cradek> a big mother
[22:36:19] <stuste1> I will write this down and try to find one here
[22:36:54] <cradek> that would be great, thank you
[22:37:11] <stuste1> I will let you know what I find
[22:37:14] <cradek> I'll pay you a good price for it if you find one. Seems they are not real common.
[22:38:16] <stuste1> I need a reason to drive to Lincoln. I would like to see you and Jeff - and your machine
[22:39:08] <cradek> I bet jeff would be more interested in seeing your shop than you would be in seeing mine...
[22:41:51] <stuste1> if you need a little vacation from the normal I will put you guys up here in Wichita. It wouldn't be a total vacation. I would lobby for more features on EMC. You may have to hold a class to teach me how to modify EMC and Python.
[22:44:29] <cradek> the changes you are wanting are pretty major... I wish it were easier but there are many interwoven parts that need to be touched.
[22:47:03] <stuste1> I had some trouble configuring Axis to display X Y Z W for my G and L. The post mill in the main shop. I was successful in getting it to work. When I was trying to make it work I thought to myself 'how would Chris approach this?' When I did that - the next attempt worked. I would like to see your place and Jeff's. It is easier to understand and communicate when you know someone. The better you know someone the easier it is to communicate. My
[22:48:09] <cradek> is G & L the tall one?
[22:48:18] <cradek> (your last message was cut off at "My")
[23:03:25] <stuste1> yes, the G and L is the tall one.
[23:05:08] <cradek> that'll be a fun one. quite the beast.
[23:06:22] <cradek> I shouldn't tell you this but I've been collecting parts to eventually do some 5-axis stuff here. I have a 12" rotary table (not yet CNC) for "A" that I found at an auction. I will probably end up with something trunion style (I think it would be XYZAC)
[23:06:25] <stuste1> we should be installing the control and wiring this week, hopefully
[23:06:43] <cradek> allright! I didn't know you were progressing on that one already
[23:09:06] <stuste1> I think it will be great for you to do some 5 axis stuff. Will you build it as a tilting rotary table?
[23:10:25] <stuste1> you will need some machining done. I will do that for you.
[23:10:27] <cradek> I was thinking this rotary would go vertical as A, and then another H/V table would mount on its V surface to it, which actually turns out to be horizontal and makes a C axis
[23:11:09] <cradek> this table is 250lb which worries me - I'll have to look up the capacity of my mill, it might only be about 400
[23:11:40] <cradek> with this scheme I don't think I'll need much or any machining, it would just bolt together pretty much
[23:13:08] <cradek> this is a year or two in the future - I don't even have the base mill running on emc yet
[23:15:00] <stuste1> I know how that year or two can fly by. Randy and I talked a year ago last May. We were going to have the Dahlih, the G and L, and the Cramic (the gantry) running by the end of last year. Time flies!!!!
[23:16:06] <cradek> haha, that was extremely optimistic.
[23:16:11] <cradek> optimism is good though
[23:16:37] <cradek> will the G & L be ppmc too?
[23:16:38] <renesis> optomism is soooo bad =(
[23:19:57] <stuste1> Yes, the G & L is ppmc. I want to do everything using ppmc. With all machines the same, troubleshooting will be easier. I am not totally against other interfaces but it would take a pretty strong case to get me to change. As I get more machines done it will take an even stronger case to get me to change.
[23:22:08] <stuste1> Randy built some output modules for Jon's I/O board. These are very short and allow is to put I/O boards in neighboring slots in Jon's motherboard.
[23:22:52] <stuste1> We can load it up for many I/O's, encoders, and DAC's.
[23:23:44] <cradek> that sounds nice, you will need much more IO for a more complex machine.
[23:27:47] <stuste1> The G & L is a four axis. All four axes are linear. It is not that much more complex than the Dahlih. It does have a four speed gearbox and a VFD for the spindle. That adds some complexity but not a lot. I think we have around 40 I/O's for it. This is a little over twice the Dahlih.
[23:29:04] <cradek> is gear change done my the control, or is it manual and the control only reads the gear?
[23:29:23] <stuste1> The Dahlih is running great. It is very accurate. The interpolation is very smooth.
[23:29:54] <stuste1> I will use CL for the gear changes.
[23:30:25] <cradek> that's good to hear. I was happy with the tuning we accomplished on the dahlih.
[23:31:06] <cradek> my bridgeport stops motion for .25 seconds at the end of each block. it can read 4 blocks per second max.
[23:31:50] <cradek> I tried running that spiral program on it, but it was not pretty as you might guess.
[23:32:14] <stuste1> that is why I mentioned the interpolation. I wanted you to know the tuning was very good.
[23:32:49] <cradek> that's great
[23:35:12] <stuste1> I have talked to Barney several times. He still wants to put a control on his machines.
[23:37:06] <cradek> did he ever come see your dahlih?
[23:38:33] <stuste1> He has not. He mentioned it last week. He will when he is ready to put a control on one.
[23:38:54] <cradek> I am not too surprised. He does not hurry does he.
[23:40:30] <stuste1> He has patience.
[23:45:28] <stuste1> patience is a good thing. I need it. I want it NOW!!!!
[23:49:31] <stuste1> Did you read my post today? I understand the request is major. Did you understand my posts yesterday?
[23:50:46] <cradek> I did read them, but I think I need more time to absorb them
[23:52:32] <cradek> the way the tool offset changes the position of more than its own axis is new and complex compared to the current tool offset stuff
[23:52:53] <cradek> in your response you said "yes it is that simple" and then went on to explain how it's not that simple, which I thought was pretty funny
[23:53:19] <SWPadnos> hi there
[23:53:30] <cradek> hi steven
[23:53:39] <stuste1> Hi Steven
[23:53:54] <SWPadnos> the thing I didn't get (or agree with) was the idea that you change the TOV and therefore offset axes with G17/G18/G19
[23:54:12] <SWPadnos> I might agreewith it if I actually get it :)
[23:54:27] <cradek> dinner is calling me, I'll read back and join back in, in a bit
[23:54:29] <stuste1> that is why I wrote today. I wanted to explain my thoughts a little more.
[23:55:06] <SWPadnos> actually, I'm not really here, just wanted to stick that out there and run away ;)
[23:55:12] <toast> that confuses me
[23:55:16] <toast> tov?
[23:55:23] <SWPadnos> tool orientation vector
[23:56:00] <SWPadnos> I don't think you can assume that for a generic machine, G17/18/19 changes the direction the tool (and therefore the spindle) points
[23:56:05] <toast> why would you want to dick with g17-19
[23:56:22] <toast> all that does on all the controls i've used is alter the arc plane
[23:56:33] <SWPadnos> yes
[23:56:41] <toast> i don't understand why you would ever want it to do anything else
[23:57:02] <toast> maybe i'm missing something though.
[23:57:34] <SWPadnos> of course, I may have totally misunderstood something, so this may be a moot point
[23:58:17] <toast> yeah
[23:58:21] <toast> who knows, dude.
[23:58:50] <stuste1> I agree that you can use G18/G19 without changing the TOV. This will allow you to use a bull mill or a ball mill and cut a radius on the top of a rib using G02/G03
[23:59:01] <SWPadnos> right
[23:59:17] <SWPadnos> those are there to restrict an arc to an axial plane