#emc | Logs for 2007-10-05

[02:22:34] <tomp> interesting tiny stepper mill, the design is all channel and linear rails, also shows several vacuum fixtures http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m3u_UKXvRw
[02:23:25] <jmkasunich_> Cleveland Indians 12, New York Skankees 3
[02:23:27] <jmkasunich_> woo hoo!
[03:10:35] <cradek> whee, I have flood coolant
[03:11:03] <cradek> and I finally found the right screws for the indexable 3/4" center cutting end mill I got in a bunch of junk
[03:12:06] <cradek> so I can throw aluminum chips about 8' (I need to make guards)
[03:20:55] <CIA-8> 03jmelson 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/univpwm/univpwm_io.hal: fixed comment on encoder index sensing
[03:20:58] <JymmmEMC> I'm surprised that my 4ft black light bulbs still work after all these years
[03:22:51] <CIA-8> 03jmelson 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/univstep/univstep_io.hal: fixed comment about encoder index, added code to properly use estop latch
[03:37:25] <fenn> http://jack-of-all-tradez.blogspot.com/2007/09/young-engineers.html
[05:02:45] <tomp> can a light pen be used with a TFT ( does a TFT scan like a crt ) ?
[06:12:06] <JymmmEMC> tomp: I don't think so... LCD's don't have scnarates like a crt does.
[06:12:30] <JymmmEMC> http://www.screendirect.com/specsheets/LPfaq.html
[06:12:59] <JymmmEMC> 2. LCD, flat panel technology is not compatible with light pen designs. There are no pointing devices, similar to light pens, available for LCD/Flat Panel monitors. Many Lap Tops, however, have a provision for connecting an external CRT monitor with which the light pen will be fully functional.
[06:27:07] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: you there?
[06:30:36] <ds2> what is a 'fag' in british english? this is label for something that looks like a washer on a british lathe diagram... AFAIK, a fag is a cigarette so...
[06:34:04] <fenn> where's the diagram?
[06:34:16] <ds2> it is on paper unfortunately
[06:34:17] <alex_joni> hi fenn
[06:34:21] <fenn> g'day
[06:34:30] <ds2> came in the pile of stuff I got with the lathe
[06:35:13] <ds2> I'll scan it this weekend and ask again afterwards; I did find that my "lash" problem is related to the bearing mounts and not the ball screw though
[06:36:06] <fenn> ds2: "faggot" can mean a bundle of sticks stick-like objects
[06:37:33] <ds2> there is one labeled "KM.O FAG" and another "KB.O FAG"
[06:37:42] <fenn> it's probably an acronym then
[06:38:05] <ds2> Hmm
[06:39:10] <fenn> FAG Kugelfischer, a German company that manufactures ball bearings
[06:39:22] <fenn> (probably not)
[06:39:45] <ds2> I found that hit but the trend on the drawing seems to be "Brand Name of part"
[06:55:01] <fenn> i bet a wacom tablet could be integrated into an lcd screen somehow
[06:55:56] <fenn> you'd have to remove the EMI shielding
[06:58:23] <fenn> this folding bellows stuff is pretty neat
[06:59:47] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni:
[07:20:44] <fenn> arrrrg its the same guy who made this http://pergatory.mit.edu/perg/research/archive/Kane/hpress2.htm
[07:25:13] <fenn> and he was involved in the axtrusion stuff
[08:08:38] <anonimasu> hi
[08:08:41] <anonimasu> yeah
[08:08:52] <anonimasu> fenn: Well, just buy a graphire tablet..
[08:11:38] <fenn> but are those 'industrial'? :P
[08:12:10] <anonimasu> you can probably stick them behind a thin glass..
[08:12:38] <fenn> i dont think graphire is the right name
[08:12:38] <anonimasu> err sorry it's cintiq..
[08:12:47] <fenn> yeah
[08:12:51] <anonimasu> http://www.wacom.com/cintiq/
[08:13:00] <anonimasu> 2400usd
[08:13:39] <anonimasu> there's a 12" one..
[08:13:43] <anonimasu> http://www.wacom.com/pendisplays/DTF521.cfm
[08:14:56] <fenn> ya it's a bit steep for an obvious easy integration
[11:32:34] <kollabierer> moin
[11:32:37] <kollabierer> hi ;)
[11:33:23] <kollabierer> anyone here who uses an tool-lenght-sensor ?
[11:34:43] <alex_joni> hello
[11:35:35] <kollabierer> hi
[11:37:23] <kollabierer> no one who uses such a great tool ?
[11:37:47] <archivist> * archivist wants to use one
[11:37:55] <kollabierer> me too
[11:38:08] <kollabierer> but I need to know how to integrated one in EMC (Axis)
[11:38:25] <archivist> but my app is a pain as its to make a gear cutter
[11:38:45] <cradek> I have done that (I used a microswitch)
[11:38:50] <cradek> the gcode I used is in cvs
[11:39:07] <kollabierer> sounds good
[11:39:15] <kollabierer> how may I find it ?
[11:39:39] <cradek> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/nc_files/tool-length-probe.ngc?rev=1.4
[11:40:01] <kollabierer> big thanx
[11:40:01] <cradek> this uses some features new in emc2.2 which is not quite released yet, but you can compile it yourself
[11:40:06] <kollabierer> I read it and come back ;)
[11:40:11] <cradek> I have to go, I'll be back later
[11:40:18] <kollabierer> ok, thx !
[13:42:45] <skunkworks> friday
[13:43:24] <skunkworks> wife is off on a girly trip with her friends up north..
[13:43:56] <archivist> toys to be played with
[13:43:59] <skunkworks> exactly
[13:44:17] <cradek> yay, you can spend all weekend writing documentation for emc 2.2
[13:44:42] <skunkworks> what? I think this connnection is bad BZzzzzzz sputter sputtter
[13:45:52] <skunkworks> ;)
[13:49:31] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[13:49:47] <cradek> I should work on testing/debugging stepconf some more - I think that's one of the things people will like most about 2.2
[13:49:51] <cradek> I'll try to do that this weekend
[13:50:33] <cradek> we have to get this released - so many people want things in it
[13:51:46] <skunkworks> yes. It is quite a list :)
[18:25:38] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: You alive?
[18:25:47] <alex_joni> yeah
[18:25:50] <alex_joni> partly
[18:28:36] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: why?
[18:29:56] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: that ain't funny
[18:29:57] <alex_joni> :P
[18:30:22] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: did you try the links I gave you?
[18:30:30] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: yeah, even before
[18:30:37] <alex_joni> I did manage to get some human to mail me
[18:30:52] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: do you have a email address setup for your acnt?
[19:20:47] <cradek> I was working on some gcode for undercutting something with a dovetail cutter
[19:21:02] <cradek> it goes down then straight over, then cuts across for a while
[19:21:15] <cradek> the exit move I want is a diagonal rapid out of the "corner"
[19:21:43] <cradek> but if I write that on the bp boss, it will break the work, since it would rapid straight up then over
[19:21:55] <SWPadnos> don't do a rapid, use F10000
[19:22:02] <SWPadnos> or whatever max is
[19:22:02] <cradek> so I'm back to being sure that's wrong behavior...
[19:22:14] <cradek> yeah I know how to work around it...
[19:22:19] <SWPadnos> ah
[19:22:28] <cradek> but it's a case of the control trying to be smarter than me, and consequently not giving me what I ask for
[19:23:09] <SWPadnos> it seems rare that you'd want to rapid with a cutter in the workpiece
[19:23:10] <cradek> when they thought that ("hey up first then over, or over and then down is safest") they were not thinking of dovetails
[19:23:33] <cradek> using a rapid to exit a cut is pretty typical isn't it? I do it all the time (usually up)
[19:24:03] <cradek> this type of tool only has a different exit path
[19:24:04] <SWPadnos> if you're cutting, then you should probably be using a specified feed rate instead of rapid traverse
[19:24:23] <cradek> it's not cutting, it's getting out of the work after the cut is done
[19:24:34] <SWPadnos> I may not understand why you're trying for the diagonal - it seems like a bad idea (from the picture I have in my head anyway)
[19:25:13] <SWPadnos> ok, so you've already cut that path, and are retracing it to get out of the work
[19:25:50] <cradek> yes
[19:25:58] <cradek> but with this cutter, retract isn't up
[19:26:21] <SWPadnos> right
[19:26:26] <cradek> in fact, the only way to get directly away from all the surfaces you just cut is a diagonal
[19:27:00] <SWPadnos> ah, you're cutting on the edge of he workpiece - I was thinking this would be a groove (like a T-slot)
[19:27:42] <SWPadnos> but it's an outside slot
[19:29:28] <cradek> no, it's inside in this case
[19:29:41] <SWPadnos> uh
[19:29:56] <cradek> undercutting a circle
[19:30:03] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:30:07] <SWPadnos> right - you said that, didn't you
[19:30:14] <SWPadnos> well, sortt of
[19:30:38] <cradek> meh
[19:30:41] <cradek> forget it :-)
[19:30:45] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:31:12] <jepler> cradek: did you figure this out before or after you ruined the work?
[19:31:27] <cradek> before!
[19:31:34] <jepler> personally I think G0 should go at the last programmed feedrate when Z<0 and at rapid speed when Z>0; then it will always be what you want <sqrt(3)/2 wink>
[19:31:35] <cradek> I have not ruined anything, or broken any tools yet.
[19:31:50] <cradek> haha, troll
[19:31:56] <SWPadnos> I agree that computers thinking they're smarter than you is annoying, but since all normal cutters are safest retracting Z then doing the XY traverse, and people using other profile cutters can work around it (using a single short move, then a rapid once they know the cutter is clear), it doesn't seem to be that big a deal to me
[19:32:49] <cradek> well it's not life or death, but on this control I can't just program what I want in this case, I have to know the quirks of it
[19:33:38] <SWPadnos> actually, a diagonal shouldn't be what you want - you want the XY move first, then the Z
[19:34:02] <SWPadnos> not a 3D diagonal anyway
[19:34:25] <cradek> any pure XY move will drag the cutter over the path I've already cut
[19:34:33] <cradek> it seems like not the ideal exit
[19:34:41] <cradek> but yeah that might be what I write :-)
[19:35:03] <SWPadnos> a 3D diagonal should gouge the undercut
[19:35:32] <cradek> no no no
[19:35:54] <SWPadnos> heh (see, I told you I didn't have a good mental picture of what you're trying to do ;) )
[19:35:56] <cradek> take two sides of a triangle (or adjacent sides of a square), put them against two edges that match up, and then pull it out
[19:36:14] <cradek> there are all sorts of ways to pull it out so neither of the sides rub
[19:36:45] <SWPadnos> yes, any diagonal (in 2D) will do that
[19:36:58] <SWPadnos> (limited to the correct quadrant, of course)
[19:37:02] <cradek> right that's what I'm talking about
[19:37:14] <SWPadnos> but you're cutting in 3D
[19:37:16] <cradek> I can't G0 that move on the bridgeport
[19:38:19] <SWPadnos> so if you do G0XY (no Z specified), does it still retract, then do the XY move?
[19:38:35] <cradek> no, it moves horizontally
[19:39:35] <SWPadnos> ok. I must not be getting something very basic, because if you have an overhang (because you just undercut), then you want no Z in your clearing move, or you'll gouge the underside of the shoulder you just made
[19:39:58] <cradek> dovetail dovetail
[19:40:03] <cradek> triangle
[19:40:12] <SWPadnos> oh, that diagonal shoulder trick ;)
[19:40:27] <SWPadnos> here's me thinking ot slot cutters again
[19:40:29] <SWPadnos> of
[19:40:34] <cradek> maybe I forgot to say dovetail earlier
[19:40:39] <SWPadnos> time for another cup of coffee I think
[19:40:47] <SWPadnos> no, you did
[19:41:54] <cradek> yeah for me too
[20:05:12] <Ziegler> Is there a way to jog the machine to a desired place ... and then set an "arbitrary" home?
[20:05:17] <Ziegler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?IndexOnlyHoming
[20:05:26] <Ziegler> something similar to that?
[20:05:55] <alex_joni> Ziegler: if you don't have home switches, sure
[20:06:04] <alex_joni> if you do, I suggest you use touch-off instead
[20:06:13] <Ziegler> yes that is correct.. I do not have home switches right now
[20:06:30] <alex_joni> just hit home
[20:06:38] <alex_joni> you can even hit it more than one time
[20:07:03] <Ziegler> so then it will reset absolute coords to 0,0,0 at the place I am located?
[20:07:09] <alex_joni> yeah
[20:07:20] <Ziegler> awsome... be back in a minute then
[20:07:33] <Ziegler> (thanks)
[20:13:16] <dmessier> hi all
[20:36:09] <Ziegler> works great... There a button in axis that will "index home" of all 3 axis with the push of one button?
[20:36:30] <SWPadnos> control-home, I think
[20:36:49] <alex_joni> yup
[20:36:56] <Ziegler> ahh
[20:37:02] <Ziegler> short cut menu
[20:37:36] <SWPadnos> I think you can look at help->keyboard shortcuts (or similar) to find all the - err - keyboard shortcuts :)
[20:37:56] <jepler> If you put HOME_SEQUENCE = 0 in each [AXIS_n] section, then the Home button will become Home All
[20:38:26] <jepler> (and without it I don't think that ctrl-home actually homes anything..)
[20:38:42] <SWPadnos> oh, interesting
[21:16:22] <Ziegler> yeah... ctrl-home does not index home
[21:16:49] <Ziegler> on my machine without home switches
[21:17:20] <Ziegler> some HOME_SEQUENCE = 0
[21:17:26] <Ziegler> will change that I take it
[21:18:13] <Ziegler> off to try it...
[21:20:40] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_homing/#45
[21:39:38] <Ziegler> yes works very good
[22:21:08] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gui/axis.lyx: note [DISPLAY]EDITOR
[22:22:28] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:26:24] <Ziegler> What was that change?
[22:27:25] <SWPadnos> codumentation that points out that a requested feature is already there (in some form)
[22:27:28] <SWPadnos> documentation
[22:27:44] <Ziegler> ah
[22:31:05] <Ziegler> anyone know why I would be getting a joint error when I jog back and forth from time to time?
[22:31:26] <SWPadnos> steppers?
[22:31:28] <Ziegler> yes
[22:32:16] <SWPadnos> probably something with the overhead for stepgen vs. the axis max velocities
[22:32:31] <SWPadnos> since there's no feedback, it has to be a configuration issue
[22:33:15] <Ziegler> Would anyone mind taking a glance over my ini if I pastbin'd it?
[22:33:36] <SWPadnos> somebody would probably do it :) (not sure it'll be me at the moment though)
[22:33:59] <Ziegler> ya understandable... bb in a bit
[22:37:32] <toast> http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/128340812179843750cansomeonehan.jpg
[22:38:41] <toast> i thought that picture was appropriate.
[22:54:42] <Ziegler> http://pastebin.ca/727348
[22:55:30] <Ziegler> that is my ini file
[22:55:37] <SWPadnos> you should add alittle to STEPGEN_MAXVEL
[22:55:49] <SWPadnos> it's equal to max velocity
[22:56:05] <SWPadnos> or subtract a little from the max velocities
[22:56:28] <Ziegler> 1.08 enough?
[22:56:40] <SWPadnos> try it for a few weeks and you tell me :)
[22:56:49] <SWPadnos> gotta run now. hope that helps
[22:56:53] <Ziegler> ok I hear ya... did know if there was a specific
[22:56:56] <Ziegler> yes thank you
[23:12:08] <Ziegler> hey... there a way to change the default g-code loaded into axis? (Something I can use to warm up the machine instead of EMC2"
[23:13:32] <jepler> Ziegler: yes; set the Unix environment variable AXIS_OPEN_FILE to the full path of the file you prefer to load
[23:13:46] <Ziegler> nice!
[23:13:53] <Ziegler> where is the file it loads now
[23:13:59] <Ziegler> I dont see it in the examples
[23:14:07] <Ziegler> meh.. I might be blind
[23:14:08] <jepler> /usr/share/axis/images/axis.ngc
[23:14:18] <Ziegler> ahh
[23:14:20] <crotchetyGuy> cradek: I don't know the emc control at all, but most commercial controls would have a quirk that would give you the same type of headache unless you knew about it beforehand. Most controls start all rapid moves with the maximum velocity and then when one axis gets to its destination, it waits for the others to reach their destinations. This gives dogleg paths that are not usually what you want. (I think the z axis works this way too, alth
[23:15:53] <jlmjvm> jepler:where do you change that at?
[23:17:03] <jepler> jlmjvm: "the Unix environment variable". If you're launching emc from an icon or the Applications menu, the answer is "I don't actually know how to do that"
[23:17:07] <Ziegler> export VARNAME="value"
[23:17:38] <jepler> yes, if you launch emc from the terminal you can either execute that each time, or put it in ~/.bashrc or ~/.bash_profile
[23:17:57] <jepler> I don't know how to do that in the fancy ubuntu desktop though (it's one of the first things I turn off when I install a new machine)
[23:18:10] <jlmjvm> k,thought it was in the ini file but didnt see it
[23:18:43] <Ziegler> can you set it in the ini?
[23:18:48] <jepler> no
[23:19:02] <Ziegler> hmm.. maybe a bash script that sets it, and then loads EMC2
[23:19:22] <jepler> originally I wanted this to work: emc ~/emc2/configs/sim/axis.ini ~/whatever.ngc
[23:19:42] <Ziegler> not in the code yet?
[23:19:43] <jepler> but it didn't; the argument wasn't passed along to axis. So I made this work: AXIS_OPEN_FILE=~/whatever.ngc emc ~/emc2/configs/sim/axis.ini
[23:19:56] <Ziegler> ahh
[23:20:20] <Ziegler> you know that might work from a desktop icon
[23:20:29] <Ziegler> never tried it
[23:20:33] <jepler> probably but not 100% sure
[23:20:39] <jlmjvm> jepler:who is the emc plc guy?
[23:20:41] <jepler> like I said, I get rid of gnome as quick as I can
[23:20:56] <Ziegler> (me runs xcfe)
[23:21:31] <jepler> jlmjvm: most of us have been forced to use classicladder at one time or another but I don't know who considers himself an expert
[23:21:47] <jepler> jlmjvm: Chris Morley has most recently been improving classicladder, but I don't think he uses the IRC
[23:22:13] <jlmjvm> was wondering if its capable of doing a toolchanger
[23:22:35] <Ziegler> I see info in the docs about a tool changer
[23:22:52] <jepler> jlmjvm: yes, it is used to run the mazak toolchanger; this requires turning a carousel until it's at the right spot; aligning the spindle; and sequencing the hydraulics
[23:22:52] <jlmjvm> is that what was used on the mazak?
[23:23:26] <jlmjvm> k
[23:24:32] <jepler> the special component 'modmath' is used to help it decide which way to rotate the carousel, but I think that's really the only part that is not done inside classicladder
[23:25:47] <jlmjvm> i know 2 different that want a tool changer done,but im not a plc guy
[23:25:56] <jlmjvm> people
[23:26:09] <jepler> this untested patch should make the inivar [DISPLAY]OPEN_FILE = /path/to/your.ngc specify the initial file instead of axis.ngc: http://pastebin.ca/727385
[23:26:46] <jepler> but that's not a lot of help unless you're already building emc from source code
[23:27:08] <Ziegler> ive been meaning to start using the CVS version anyway
[23:28:41] <Ziegler> any reason a change like that cant make it to the offical CVS (im not really sure about the politics of adding new code)
[23:29:31] <jlmjvm> jepler:is the g28 gonna be changed in the new version?
[23:29:56] <Ziegler> philosophy change?
[23:30:52] <Ziegler> I keep meaning to install CVS because I hear its easier on the processor cycles
[23:31:36] <Ziegler> I dont think that change has made it into the version I run now
[23:32:00] <jepler> jlmjvm: I think the behavior of g28 was modified but I really did not understand the whole discussion
[23:32:52] <jepler> jlmjvm: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode/main/ scroll down to "G28, G30 with axis words" very near the end
[23:33:31] <jlmjvm> k
[23:34:04] <jepler> I think in 2.1.x, G28 X0 moves all axes; in 2.2.0 it will move only X.
[23:35:00] <jlmjvm> cool,thats what im looking for
[23:35:02] <jepler> bbl
[23:35:15] <jlmjvm> later
[23:37:30] <Ziegler> jlmjvm: check /etc/bash.bashrc for setting env var
[23:39:04] <archivist_> archivist_ is now known as the_assistant
[23:45:48] <Ziegler> export to AXIS_OPEN_FILE did not work for me
[23:46:11] <Ziegler> I supose I could just as easy reaplace the existing file
[23:46:16] <Ziegler> bbl
[23:58:45] <Skullworks-PGAB> Stomach flu - the great domestic Bio weapon - takes out your co-workers for 48hrs so you can score the presentation or some such.
[23:59:54] <Ziegler> heh