#emc | Logs for 2007-10-02

[00:06:20] <skunkworks> well - looks like I need footings..
[00:14:42] <Ziegler> http://images.myonlinesite.com/cnc_mill/video_1/videos.html
[00:14:56] <Ziegler> first dry run
[00:18:26] <fenn> that handle looks scary
[00:19:16] <Ziegler> yeah... its coming off
[00:19:28] <Ziegler> I already took the front one off
[00:25:24] <crotchetyGuy> cradek: regarding feeds and speeds- those are perfectly fine for hss in aluminum- and for what it's worth, I have never ever burned up a hss tool in aluminum.
[00:27:43] <fenn> i don think its possible - hss un-tempers at above red-hot, aluminum melts at below red-hot
[00:28:26] <fenn> so theoretically you could dip your tools in a vat of molten aluminum and they'd be fine
[00:29:15] <crotchetyGuy> for a hobbyist, no great hurry, however, if you don't have a good mister or flood coolant, the aluminum can melt in the flutes and load up the em, and then bad things happen.
[00:29:23] <Ziegle1> not true fenn
[00:29:34] <Ziegle1> aluminum melts above red
[00:29:40] <fenn> Ziegle1: red looks redder when it's dark
[00:30:02] <fenn> you can see infrared with the right filters
[00:30:13] <fenn> (or if there's no other light)
[00:30:14] <Ziegle1> aluminum melts at cherry red temps
[00:30:46] <Ziegle1> the metal it self doesnt not emmit the color the same as a black body objects of similar temp
[00:31:22] <Ziegle1> but aluminum is at ~1350 F when it melts
[00:31:49] <fenn> please explain why my melting pot is not red then http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/camera/qdig-files/converted-images/med_fenn3.JPG
[00:32:24] <Ziegle1> "red" color temp
[00:32:37] <Ziegle1> is based on black body objects emitting light
[00:33:29] <Ziegle1> melting pot doesnt have to be the same temp as the aluminum
[00:33:39] <Ziegle1> But its a fact aluminum melts at 1380 sih
[00:33:40] <Ziegle1> ish
[00:33:50] <fenn> ok why is the aluminum not red then: http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/camera/qdig-files/converted-images/med_fenn1.JPG
[00:34:00] <Ziegle1> heat steel or iron up to that temp and tell me what color it is
[00:34:13] <Ziegle1> see my answer above
[00:34:28] <Ziegle1> I thought that was the question you asked the first time
[00:34:53] <Ziegle1> http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/StephanieLum.shtml
[00:35:00] <Ziegle1> I just quickly googled color chart
[00:35:06] <Ziegle1> and thats what came up...
[00:36:05] <SWPadnos> http://www.diracdelta.co.uk/science/source/c/o/colour%20temperature/source.html and http://www.fact-index.com/a/al/aluminium.html
[00:36:14] <fenn> if you say something is 'red hot' it better be red
[00:36:23] <Ziegle1> you are wrong fenn
[00:36:38] <fenn> i dont care what color a piece of lanthanated tungsten is
[00:36:41] <SWPadnos> 933K is close to 660C, which is just below "dull cherry red"
[00:36:52] <crotchetyGuy> I am not sure where they arrived that speed for aluminum, unless it gives the best tool life vs. time.
[00:36:54] <Ziegle1> you can argue about it all you want.. but the fact is, not all objects emmit the same level of color
[00:38:36] <SWPadnos> it looks like Alu melts at 1220, not 1380
[00:39:33] <Ziegle1> sorry... I pour at 1380
[00:39:45] <Ziegle1> woah
[00:39:45] <SWPadnos> that probably makes sense
[00:39:45] <SWPadnos> yeah
[00:41:34] <Ziegle1> Ziegle1 is now known as Ziegler
[00:41:49] <Ziegler> wow... lots of nicks dropping
[00:41:53] <Ziegler> am I still here?
[00:41:58] <SWPadnos> nope
[00:42:02] <SWPadnos> err - yep :)
[00:42:05] <Ziegler> heh
[00:42:22] <fenn> freenode is a distributed server, sometimes the servers lose contact with each other
[00:42:32] <fenn> its silly really
[00:48:40] <crotchetyGuy> RE: feeds and speeds in aluminum- for a hobbyist, I would say keep the speeds at the recommended, but drop the chipload.
[00:50:24] <tomp> crotchetyGuy: bytecolor popped in & out of #cam
[00:50:24] <crotchetyGuy> you won't burn up your tooling, and at lower chiploads, you won't load up and break an em.
[00:50:56] <crotchetyGuy> tomp: yeah, i noticed- cool-
[00:53:35] <crotchetyGuy> There is a danger in going too slow- surface finishes suck, and it increases stress on the tool
[00:53:43] <cradek> crotchetyGuy: I cut with end mills just like it says, but I think drilling at 100ipm just isn't for me
[00:54:09] <crotchetyGuy> no- I was going to say-that is a bit much for an open machine
[00:54:54] <crotchetyGuy> even for me- someone who does it every day.
[00:55:26] <crotchetyGuy> in a closed machine, sure, tighten the vise,though
[00:56:17] <crotchetyGuy> hobbyists don't have to worry about turning a profit.
[00:57:05] <crotchetyGuy> If I don't have to meet a price, increased feeds just throw parts out of vises.
[00:57:20] <cradek> working slowly is often the fastest way to a finished part
[00:57:38] <crotchetyGuy> ain't it the truth!
[00:58:27] <crotchetyGuy> That is the hardest thing to learn in machining- slow down and let your brain speed up the process.
[00:59:06] <cradek> I think the hardest thing to learn (or come to peace with) is that most of the time you're going to be doing setup, not cutting.
[00:59:34] <Ziegler> yeah
[01:00:11] <crotchetyGuy> luckily, you don't have to run production:)
[01:00:33] <cradek> is it luck? :-)
[01:02:23] <crotchetyGuy> It's not too bad until the runs reach the 1000's of part's - then it's a drag- I don't have to do much production, fortunately
[01:02:59] <cradek> those are what brings the money in though, I suppose
[01:04:17] <crotchetyGuy> yeah, it all depends, like everything. If you lose a $1 for every part, you don't make it up in volume:)
[01:04:49] <cradek> but that's how internet startups work...
[01:06:31] <crotchetyGuy> yeah, wrong trade I suppose....
[01:07:35] <Ziegler> http://images.myonlinesite.com << can someone check this link for me?
[01:07:51] <tomp> some interesting kinematics and bits about tool tip velocity http://arxiv.org/pdf/0705.1038
[01:08:02] <tomp> Ziegler: worked fine for me
[01:08:27] <Ziegler> thanks... for what ever reason... I cant access it, but I can access my other subdomains on that domain
[01:15:50] <tomp> i think this is a hexapod head meant to be mounted to largish mills http://www.hexapode-cmw.com/english/hexa.htm
[01:20:01] <tomp> here it is... "The Jacobian matrix J relates the joint rates to the tool velocities" I didnt understand everyone was talking tool tip velocity before, i was just posing the tool before the work was done.
[01:21:17] <SWPadnos> tomp, I posed a slightly modified version of the tooltip path length question to my mother, and she left me a detailed message talling me the answer
[01:21:19] <SWPadnos> on the answering machine :)
[01:21:41] <SWPadnos> if it hasn't been deleted, I'll see if I can translate from whatever language she was speaking into english
[01:22:17] <tomp> wow! does she bake good cookies too? maybe those new Jaco-bites?
[01:22:22] <SWPadnos> no
[01:22:41] <SWPadnos> but she does make excellent apple pie and cheesecake (and baklava)
[01:23:01] <tomp> you're lucky
[01:23:35] <SWPadnos> I'll also see if I can explain the real problem to her - she's not so good at understanding geometric things - had to memorize all the transforms for various coordinate systems because she has no spatial sense
[01:24:47] <SWPadnos> but it's relatively easy - the travel in each coordinate is proportional to time (ie, they all move at some rate per unit of time), so you can do some substitutions and end up with just a double or triple -integral
[01:25:10] <crotchetyGuy> tomp: I couldn't get the link: http://arxiv.org/pdf/0705.1038 to work.
[01:25:15] <SWPadnos> (her solution was double, but that may have been before substitution, and it didn't include XY travel, only Z-theta with fixed R)
[01:25:20] <fenn> i really dont think you need to use calculus for this
[01:25:24] <SWPadnos> you do
[01:25:35] <tomp> the concerns presented went right over me because i was just getting into position and couldnt see why the velocity was important ( no contact with workpiece )
[01:25:52] <SWPadnos> to get the path length of a combined XYZC move, you need to integrate along the path
[01:26:23] <SWPadnos> you can't just use the endpoints or sum-of-squares thing with the arc component thrown in
[01:26:34] <SWPadnos> (or maybe you can, but you'd have to prove it to me with calculus ;) )
[01:27:44] <tomp> :) yes i see the point now that i see its about tool tip velocity.
[01:28:40] <tomp> i'm getting the feeling the component velocities aren't constant
[01:29:03] <tomp> doh, they're not in a 2d circle and 2 axis... duh
[01:29:15] <crotchetyGuy> SWPadnos: wondering why this is of interest to you?
[01:29:35] <tomp> crotchetyGuy: this is my bag actually
[01:29:36] <fenn> SWPadnos: ok i see where you're coming from
[01:29:44] <SWPadnos> theta (C) also contributes to XY, so it's not trivial
[01:29:44] <fenn> i thought he was just doing tiny moves
[01:30:04] <fenn> a pure C move of 360 would have a non-zero path length
[01:30:23] <SWPadnos> could be, but if they cross over a quadrant boundary, you can't use endpoints
[01:30:25] <SWPadnos> right
[01:30:46] <SWPadnos> you can also do a circle in XY while rotating C, and have no tool motion
[01:30:54] <SWPadnos> (except rotation)
[01:31:02] <fenn> i think my solution would get the right answer in that case
[01:31:13] <tomp> i wanted to know the voltage to send to the amplifiers for when Vapt was told to give me teeny segments ( intol 0 outtol .0001 ) for a single motion that was 4 axis (xyzc)
[01:31:38] <tomp> that was for crotchetyGuy
[01:33:12] <tomp> and i just reused that link fine ( got the pdf)
[01:34:42] <tomp> argh i need a velocity planner because the trajectory was handed to me !
[01:35:56] <jlmjvm_> jepler:i got my video resolution fixed
[01:45:16] <tomp> http://www1bpt.bridgeport.edu/~abuzneid/ppp/node8.html#SECTION00053000000000000000 Velocity and Inverse Velocity Kinematics SWPadnos, this is for your mom, not for me :(
[01:45:38] <SWPadnos> aaahhh!!! my eyes!!!!!
[01:50:22] <skyfox00> cradek: you here?
[01:55:27] <skyfox00> Anyway, in general, the issue of pluto_servo loosing counts with emc 2.1.6 was due to encoder noise.... however, the reason for the erratic counting with the cvs version of emc (with the same setup that worked fine with 2.1.6) is still unidentified and at large...
[01:59:04] <tomp> progress is good :)
[02:00:14] <skyfox00> Also, that same cvs-version of emc would throw 'unexpected realtime delay' errors, so it may be expected that the unreliability of the entire emc/kernel/realtime may be due to any of the affore mentioned things...
[02:01:37] <jlmjvm_> does anyone in here have a machine thatthat homes to an index pulse?
[02:01:41] <skyfox00> in other words, a single worm can ruin a whole box of apples...
[02:02:13] <skyfox00> anyway, y'all have fun and keep up the good work!
[05:41:42] <LawrenceG> http://members.shaw.ca/swstuff/spindle-encoder.html just did up a web page on the last weeks work on my shoptask
[05:46:05] <Jymmm> cool beans
[05:46:27] <LawrenceG> it actually works.... was threading air this afternoon
[05:46:46] <Jymmm> WEll, let's see the pics of the air you threaded!!!
[05:46:55] <LawrenceG> that encoder wheel is about the largest thing I can mill
[05:47:29] <Jymmm> heh
[05:47:54] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: Hey, we want to see an auction shot of this... http://members.shaw.ca/swstuff/einstein.html
[05:48:56] <LawrenceG> well.. the proto is hanging over my desk.... can you do ekiga video phone?
[05:49:16] <fenn> took me a bit to figure out 'auction' meant 'action'
[05:49:17] <Jymmm> not right now,
[05:49:19] <LawrenceG> not sure if my web cam is hooked up....
[05:49:32] <fenn> i thought you wanted to buy one :P
[05:49:46] <LawrenceG> auction??
[05:50:31] <LawrenceG> nm
[05:50:55] <LawrenceG> maybe I can take a quick movie....
[05:51:55] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: dont sweat it, I just thought it was kinda cool.... I can't tell what kind of switch is on that unit, be it on/off, 3 way or what.
[05:52:32] <LawrenceG> just on/off.... by flipping it on and off you get different modes
[05:52:59] <Jymmm> So, whats the setting for DISCO mode?
[05:53:13] <LawrenceG> I stuck a p/b on it after the photo.... the idea was to use a stock camper lamp
[05:53:33] <LawrenceG> that would be cool... sound activated!
[05:53:44] <Jymmm> RGB led's
[05:53:51] <LawrenceG> yea baby
[05:54:03] <Jymmm> p/b ???
[05:54:09] <LawrenceG> push button
[05:54:23] <Jymmm> ah
[05:58:05] <LawrenceG> well... off to bed.... are you on the late shift Jymmm ?
[05:58:55] <alex_joni> he always is
[06:22:10] <anonimas1> anonimas1 is now known as anonimasu
[06:22:26] <alex_joni> bbl
[10:21:55] <Paragon37> Greetings All ... This is probably going to sound daft but could someone tell me how the teeth on timing belts are calculated, its just that I have belts that I wish to replace they are marked 70XL, 100XL and 120XL. The 120XL has 60 raised teeth. Do I order a 60 tooth belt or a 120 tooth belt? Here is the US based site https://sdp-si.com
[10:52:45] <JymmmEMC> Just got home... The baby cockatiel died
[10:58:06] <Paragon37> JymmmEMC: Sorry to here that...
[13:49:30] <Paragon37> Just took the plunge and purchased the following: http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=5&products_id=8&osCsid=5f00f91196568a976cedc432365453f4
[13:52:45] <Paragon37> I was looking at the Gecko drives but they are lot more $ and my requirements did not justify the added cost. Hope I don't live to regret it. BTW are the raitings for the Nema23 steppers realistic 3Nm = 422 oz-in !
[13:54:00] <skunkworks_> http://cgi.ebay.com/DYNA-MYTE-TABLETOP-CNC-MILL-DRILL-LATHE-SAW-GRINDER_W0QQitemZ130158240482QQihZ003QQcategoryZ12584QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
[13:57:23] <skunkworks_> Paragon37: I am sure they will work just fine.
[13:59:59] <Paragon37> Thanks Skunkworks :-)
[14:03:38] <skunkworks_> mmmm morning coffee
[14:09:24] <skunkworks_> Paragon37: this was done with ebay 'gasp' non mid-band-dampening drives http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_OUNLruaVQ
[14:10:20] <skunkworks_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og6V-nS2dig
[14:12:35] <cradek> skunkworks_: that dynamyte is cool
[14:13:01] <skunkworks_> isn't it? I wonder if it is servos.. the motors look huge.
[14:13:33] <cradek> I bet they're steppers with simplistic drivers since they have fans on them
[14:14:18] <skunkworks_> yah.
[14:14:34] <skunkworks_> its from nasa ;)
[14:14:50] <cradek> hey it's pretty nearby too :-)
[14:15:17] <skunkworks_> I was going to say...
[14:15:34] <skunkworks_> very nice looking. (industrial)
[14:15:54] <skunkworks_> over my budget :)
[14:16:44] <Paragon37> Nice videos and thats with no mid band dampening should be more than fine for me then. Do you know of a movie to show the differences that midband dampening makes?
[14:16:46] <cradek> must not have much spindle if it runs on 110v
[14:18:59] <skunkworks_> Paragon37: no
[14:32:07] <Paragon37> I remember seeing in model workshop engineer magazine a design for a spindle that used a homebuilt turnine will (fan) and a vacum hoover. The hoover tube connected onto the top of the spindle. This thing had an rpm of something like 50,000 - 60,000 RPM with the benifit of cleaning as it went. Thought about implementing this for PCB milling.
[14:32:37] <Paragon37> OMG turnine will = turbine wheel ;-)
[14:52:51] <Paragon37> Does anyone have a sample .hal .ini file for pluto-p stepper available?
[14:59:41] <jepler> Paragon37: there's configs/stepper/pluto_inch.ini
[15:18:54] <Paragon37> I dont have that file jepler only lathe-pluto.ini and .hal I am running 2.1.7 updated from 2.1.6 could this have something to with it?
[15:19:19] <cradek> I believe there is no pluto step driver in 2.1 at all
[15:20:06] <jepler> pluto-step is still in early testing phases; it may be part of emc 2.2.
[15:29:25] <anonimasu> hm
[15:29:44] <Paragon37> Thanks f
[15:29:49] <Paragon37> thanks for the info
[15:30:20] <Paragon37> What is the GUI on the main page that looks like a circuit diagram?
[15:30:52] <Paragon37> Main page being linux.org
[15:31:16] <cradek> that's classicladder
[15:31:32] <cradek> software PLC equivalent that's built into emc2
[15:31:43] <Paragon37> PLC?
[15:31:45] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/ladder/classic_ladder/index.html
[15:31:54] <alex_joni> plc = programmable logic controller
[15:32:07] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_logic_controller\
[15:32:16] <cradek> alex is quick with the links today!
[15:33:06] <Paragon37> Sure is ... just glancing over it what can it be used for ie quick real world example.
[15:33:40] <cradek> very handy for putting together tool changers and other complex sequential stuff like that
[15:34:40] <Paragon37> Does it have any use for a basic 3 axis mill?
[15:34:59] <alex_joni> not necessarely
[15:35:59] <Paragon37> Looks quite complicated on the outset ....
[15:36:23] <alex_joni> it's not a 5 minute job to set up
[15:36:52] <cradek> it's really for advanced configurations
[15:37:11] <Paragon37> Paragon scratching head ;-)
[15:38:12] <cradek> Paragon37: http://youtube.com/watch?v=vNn-Yr7it5s
[15:38:58] <cradek> imagine all the hydraulic actuators that have to kick in, in order, to control the tool changing sequence on this machining center
[15:39:15] <cradek> you program "T1M6" and lots of things have to happen to load tool 1
[15:39:26] <cradek> this logic is configured in classicladder in emc2
[15:40:07] <cradek> (there's a rotating magazine full of tools on the left side)
[15:41:21] <Paragon37> Very impressive. I can see now how classicladder can assist with that type of complexity ... thanks for the description..
[15:42:16] <cradek> welcome
[15:42:32] <Paragon37> A bit like a flow chart .... do this then that if this call coil there etc etc
[15:43:09] <alex_joni> exactly
[15:43:38] <alex_joni> classicladder has actually 2 modes of operation: either ladder (the stuff you saw in the pictures) or sequential flow chart
[15:44:12] <skunkworks_> hmm I did not know that - cool
[15:45:28] <anonimasu> cradek: im not too impressed at _all_ the stuff, it's nice..
[15:45:43] <anonimasu> "imagine all the hydraulic actuators" :p
[15:46:43] <cradek> ?
[15:50:34] <anonimasu> cradek: I'm comparing to some of the stuff I've developed for work :)
[16:07:23] <Paragon37> Comming back to pluto-p stepper can you point to a documentation on installing this please?
[16:08:22] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man9/pluto_step.9.html
[16:08:40] <jepler> Paragon37: when you build the "CVS TRUNK" version of emc2, pluto-step is included. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_5_10_and_6_06_from_source http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#Getting_the_source_with_CVS
[16:09:03] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/hal/drivers/index.html
[16:18:04] <Paragon37> Thanks Chaps :-)
[16:24:35] <Paragon37> can I build as another tree ie keep the version I have and the newly built version in another location or will it install over my current emc?
[16:25:48] <skunkworks_> Paragon37: do you have the cvs (RIP) version installed aready? or do you have the installed version only right now (strait from the live cd)?
[16:26:27] <Paragon37> Installed version from the latest live cd updated to 2.1.7
[16:26:58] <rayh> I run both installed and RIP here.
[16:26:58] <Paragon37> I can feel a lot of apt-get's comming on ;-)
[16:27:12] <rayh> Just have to remember which configs work for which.
[16:27:12] <cradek> --enable-run-in-place keeps your build separate from the installed
[16:27:36] <rayh> and be certain that I start the correct halscope and other executables.
[16:27:44] <skunkworks_> ok - all you have to do is change the dir in the cvs command..
[16:29:29] <Paragon37> cvs -z5 -d:ext:anon@cvs.linuxcnc.org:/cvs co -rRELEASE_2_1_6 -demc2.1.6 <newdir>
[16:30:14] <SWPadnos> cvs -z5 -d:ext:anon@linuxcnc.org:/cvs co -demc2-trunk emc2
[16:30:32] <SWPadnos> you don't want to check out release 2.1.6, since you already have 2.1.7 installed ...
[16:30:56] <alex_joni> hmm.. did you guys hear about drobo?
[16:31:00] <SWPadnos> it's the "-d emc2-trunk" that makes a new directory
[16:31:09] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, yes, very cool, but proprietary data format
[16:31:28] <SWPadnos> so if it breaks, you can't recover your data until you get a new one (and set it up with the Windows software)
[16:32:07] <Paragon37> Thanks... as you can plainly see I have little experience of CVS
[16:32:29] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: there is some talk about it on linux
[16:32:36] <alex_joni> http://www.drobospace.com/forum/thread/10402/What-happens-under-Linux-/
[16:32:54] <Paragon37> Thanks Alex
[16:33:24] <SWPadnos> you can use it with Linux, but you can't do initial setup without the Windwos program (should be a Mac version as well), but the trouble IMO is that the underlying format is opaque
[16:34:54] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: it works ok if you use HFS+
[16:35:09] <SWPadnos> they asked me to participate in a survey about "new products", and I mentioned the problems (and that I want ext2/3 supported), adn that I wouldn't buy one unless those concerns were addressed :)
[16:40:54] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wonders what they run on it
[17:02:11] <alex_joni> bbl
[17:08:40] <jepler> huh, usb mass storage is limited to 2TB? how short-sighted. (the USB specifications only show READ_12/WRITE_12 which is limited to 2^32 512-byte blocks; modern SCSI has _16 which goes to 2^64 512-byte blocks)
[17:12:03] <Paragon37> Has anyone else had any issues with the default MTU sise of 1500 in ubuntu I have to set it to 1480 or 1498 to be able to download or view web pages even to use IRC
[17:18:13] <jepler> paragon: http://www.netheaven.com/pmtu.html
[17:20:44] <Paragon37> Thanks Jepler
[17:22:25] <Paragon37> Jepler do you have a link to #emc log for today?
[17:23:05] <jepler> logger_emc: bookmark
[17:23:05] <jepler> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-10-02.txt
[17:23:29] <Paragon37> Perfect... Thanks
[17:53:54] <Paragon37> Just tried to run the following and its asking for a password... cvs -z5 -d:ext:anon@linuxcnc.org:/cvs co -demc2-trunk emc2
[18:04:26] <SWPadnos> export CVS_RSH=ssh
[18:04:37] <SWPadnos> then try the cvs line again
[18:05:22] <Paragon37> Did that but still challenges for a password
[18:05:28] <SWPadnos> oh
[18:05:40] <SWPadnos> try anon@cvs.linuxcnc.org
[18:06:17] <SWPadnos> I mistyped it above - sorry about that
[18:07:01] <Paragon37> That's OK :-) it's working now thanks...
[18:07:23] <SWPadnos> cool
[18:10:06] <Olivier_B> bonsoir à tous.
[18:10:34] <SWPadnos> bonjour Olivier_B, comment ca va?
[18:10:59] <SWPadnos> j'ai un bon idee - let's speak english :)
[18:11:14] <Olivier_B> huhu
[18:11:16] <Olivier_B> no problem
[18:11:34] <Olivier_B> fine and you?
[18:11:43] <SWPadnos> I'm fine too
[18:12:08] <Olivier_B> Olivier_B is now known as Olivier_Essca
[18:12:56] <Olivier_Essca> I'm looking for Roger
[18:13:24] <SWPadnos> hmm. I don't know a Roger that hangs around here
[18:13:55] <Olivier_Essca> okay
[18:14:19] <SWPadnos> are you looking for the CNC-related EMC or the storage-related EMC?
[18:14:34] <Olivier_Essca> hmmm... good question
[18:14:44] <Olivier_Essca> is this Ementia channel?
[18:14:54] <SWPadnos> I don't think so :)
[18:14:54] <Olivier_Essca> Emencia*
[18:15:06] <Olivier_Essca> i see... Sorry ^^'
[18:15:10] <SWPadnos> no problem
[18:15:36] <Guest314> hello?
[18:15:47] <skunkworks_> Guest314: hello
[18:16:09] <Olivier_Essca> bonsoir
[18:16:15] <SWPadnos> au revoir
[18:16:26] <Guest314> what is this chat forum about (Emc Specific), is it for developers or just general
[18:16:32] <SWPadnos> general
[18:16:49] <Guest314> cool, can you guys maybe answer my question?
[18:16:56] <Olivier_Essca> Goodbye
[18:17:01] <SWPadnos> ask, and if someone can answer, they will (eventually)
[18:17:27] <Guest314> i want to get my EStop to be avtive low, the help file dont help!
[18:18:32] <SWPadnos> where is it connected?
[18:18:39] <Guest314> linkpp parport.0.pin-01-in iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[18:18:39] <SWPadnos> (which parport pin number)
[18:18:43] <Guest314> pin 10
[18:18:55] <SWPadnos> change that to linkpp parport.0.pin-01-in-not iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[18:18:55] <Guest314> that was the help file entry...
[18:19:08] <SWPadnos> oh, then make it pin 10 instead of 1
[18:19:09] <skunkworks_> ADucci?
[18:19:19] <SWPadnos> linkpp parport.0.pin-10-in-not iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[18:19:22] <Guest314> yip, you are good man
[18:19:38] <SWPadnos> this is explained in the EMC2 manual, somewhere :)
[18:19:38] <skunkworks_> heh - I just replied to your post. (samco)
[18:19:51] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=349592#post349592
[18:21:07] <SWPadnos> the input pins have two "outputs" to HAl - one is normal, the other inverted. the outputs have a parameter for inversion so that you can only connect one signal to the output pin (otherwise, what do you do if someone connects a signal to both thte normal and inverted pin?)
[18:21:44] <SWPadnos> there is no ...-in-invert parameter
[18:22:26] <skunkworks_> heh - now I am confused. (I thought I pulled that right out of the manual)
[18:22:50] <Guest314> you are confused!
[18:23:01] <Guest314> i am confused!
[18:23:18] <skunkworks_> :)
[18:23:28] <SWPadnos> there should be two HAL pins for each input pin. one -in and the other -in-not
[18:23:58] <SWPadnos> you can use both of them if you want
[18:24:24] <SWPadnos> for outputs, there can be only one source of control, so there's one pin, and a parameter to let you invert the output on the port
[18:26:56] <Guest314> ok, btw, that command you specified works ok on pin 01, but fails on pin 10, so you are saying its because pin 10 is an input pin?
[18:27:29] <Guest314> what do you guys do on EMC?
[18:27:39] <Guest314> i mean with your machine (plasma, mill, laser?)
[18:28:01] <SWPadnos> you only need the linkpp line, there is no need for setp
[18:28:50] <SWPadnos> so you should have one line that says "linkpp parport.0.pin-10-in-not iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in"
[18:28:59] <SWPadnos> and no setp blahblah-in-invert
[18:29:37] <skunkworks_> Sorry about that.
[18:31:34] <Guest314> ok great, this looks good... i will try this tomorrow... thanks for the help!
[18:32:02] <SWPadnos> you're welcome. good luck
[18:40:52] <skunkworks_> better? http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=349607&postcount=7
[18:41:48] <SWPadnos> looks good to me. if you can edit posts, I'd stick the "and" on a separate line though
[18:42:34] <skunkworks_> good point\
[18:43:23] <skunkworks_> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=349607&postcount=7
[18:43:34] <SWPadnos> better. thanks
[18:43:43] <skunkworks_> no. Thank You :)
[18:43:57] <SWPadnos> no, thank You. This way I don't have to sign up there ;)
[18:44:20] <Guest314> that makes good sence... ill validate it tomorrow!
[18:46:28] <Guest314> does EMC have a wizard to set the Steps-per setting on your stepper motors, or is that manual?
[18:47:49] <jepler> Guest314: not yet, but that's in the next version
[18:48:37] <Guest314> cool, when is it expected to be launched?
[18:49:07] <jepler> there aren't any set dates, but I hope it will be this fall
[18:49:16] <jepler> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.devel/536
[18:52:27] <jepler> Guest314: for information about the new step machine configuration wizard: http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/01185733075 http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/01189478247
[18:57:24] <Paragon37> Is this to negate having to build the .ini file manualy?
[18:57:42] <jepler> yes, for simple machines this program builds the entirety of the .ini and .hal files
[18:59:28] <Paragon37> Great idea! ... I asked yesterday if it were possible to make changes in the .ini file reload into an already running Axis but was told it was not. To beable to do that would greatly assist in trial and error testing.
[18:59:56] <Adam1> Hello
[19:00:00] <jepler> hi
[19:00:06] <Paragon37> Hello
[19:00:16] <Adam1> Would anyone know why a rotary encoder would give a velocity in axis but no change in position?
[19:00:36] <jepler> because something's not hooked up right in HAL?
[19:00:47] <Adam1> I had a glass scale connected to it fine
[19:08:04] <Adam1> I think I fried my 3rd encoder input on my 7i33
[19:12:55] <skunkworks_> because it is only showing velocity?
[19:13:24] <skunkworks_> as jepler said - sounds like something isn;t hooked up correctly in hal
[19:14:09] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure how AXIS can show a non-zero velocity but no change in position ...
[19:14:34] <cradek> maybe a joint that's not displayed is moving
[19:14:46] <SWPadnos> ok, could be
[19:23:00] <Paragon37> Can anyone recommend a good open source CAM program?
[19:30:39] <rayh> cam program - try a yahoo search for "Ace Converter"
[19:44:21] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/sim/ (8 files): prefer 'net' to 'newsig' and 'linkXX' commands
[19:44:22] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stepper/ (4 files): prefer 'net' to 'newsig' and 'linkXX' commands
[19:44:30] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/common/ (core_servo.hal core_sim.hal core_sim9.hal core_stepper.hal): prefer 'net' to 'newsig' and 'linkXX' commands
[19:51:00] <JymmmEMC> GNU CAM software http://gcam.js.cx/index.php/Main_Page
[19:51:20] <JymmmEMC> Paragon37: (btw, thank you)
[19:52:24] <Paragon37> What for JymmmEMC?
[19:52:50] <JymmmEMC> condolences
[19:53:47] <Paragon37> Oh yes ... bl*&dy shame!
[19:54:37] <Paragon37> Just found this while surching for cam software .... some good videos : http://www.surfware.com/default.asp?contentID=553
[19:55:07] <Paragon37> 902IPM Cutting !!! :-)
[19:56:39] <ds2> bah hand G-coding!
[19:56:45] <ds2> none of these new fangled cam crap ;)
[19:57:19] <Paragon37> lol...
[19:58:26] <Paragon37> Check out the clip called Steel 4140 .... at the end a guy starts playing the guitar which has a body made of the milled part :-)
[19:58:58] <anonimasu> which one?
[19:59:05] <anonimasu> they are all named like that
[20:00:04] <Paragon37> Ooopsss the one with 902IPM | 22910 MMPM (extended version)
[20:00:40] <anonimasu> ah found it
[20:00:45] <ds2> I'd think 902IPM gives you a precussion instrument...shower of tool bits beating against the doors
[20:02:29] <anonimasu> gah
[20:02:31] <anonimasu> the aluminium one
[20:02:42] <anonimasu> 6061 600IPM /15240MMPM
[20:02:54] <anonimasu> that looks much faster
[20:03:30] <Paragon37> Yes that was the first one I saw ... Jaw still on the ground even now ... :-)
[20:04:01] <anonimasu> I need a 14krpm spindle.
[20:04:26] <anonimasu> Aluminum 6061
[20:04:26] <anonimasu> .500 inches deep
[20:04:26] <anonimasu> 600 IPM | 15240 MMPM
[20:05:12] <anonimasu> shit.
[20:05:20] <anonimasu> ah well,
[20:05:27] <anonimasu> forget about doing it on hobby machines.
[20:06:09] <ds2> is that with or w/o flood?
[20:06:22] <anonimasu> without
[20:06:29] <anonimasu> you notice flood coolant..
[20:06:31] <anonimasu> :p
[20:06:34] <anonimasu> air I think
[20:07:11] <anonimasu> or mist
[20:07:18] <Paragon37> I mentioned earlier about a chap who made an air spindle for his mill it was posted in Home Workshop Engineer magazine he used a homemade fan connected in the spindle and a hoover connected to the top which sucked air through it to drive the spindle ... oh and clean the bed ... From memory it ran at around 50,000 - 60,000 RPM .
[20:08:01] <anonimasu> well, I cut iron/steel and aluminium
[20:08:40] <anonimasu> that dosent really cut much
[20:08:40] <anonimasu> :p
[20:09:09] <Paragon37> I cut my finger ;-)
[20:09:22] <anonimasu> hehe
[20:09:27] <anonimasu> I've yet to do that..
[20:09:35] <anonimasu> other then when i band my knuckles at the tool
[20:10:38] <cradek> I'm anxious to get my flood coolant set up
[20:10:39] <Paragon37> Who was the chap who converted there mini lathe to servo using the pluto-p board?
[20:10:51] <cradek> that was me
[20:11:07] <skunkworks_> chap?
[20:11:09] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc/lathe
[20:11:25] <cradek> ^ some of my terrible photos
[20:11:35] <Paragon37> I thought it was ... but was not 100% sure .... What cutting spped are you getting cradek?
[20:12:10] <cradek> rapids are 1500mm, I can cut/thread at almost that
[20:12:37] <cradek> it's very fast for its tiny size
[20:12:42] <Paragon37> Nice there only little servo too right?
[20:13:18] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/cnc/lathe/DSCN6295.JPG
[20:13:37] <cradek> you can see them here, there are a few things for scale (like that DB25 cable)
[20:14:08] <skunkworks_> the pictures do not do it justice.. It is really small. very cool
[20:14:28] <cradek> yes it's sherline's small model
[20:15:04] <Paragon37> It is small .. a litte bigger than a clock makers lathe
[20:15:06] <cradek> I should clean before I take photos :-)
[20:15:38] <Paragon37> Same as my inventors corner :-)
[20:17:18] <cradek> the Z servo looks like it's really in the way, but that length is normally used by the tailstock anyway
[20:19:10] <Paragon37> I have a 7x12 mini lathe (Harbour Freight in the US) I am thinking of converting to CNC Pluto-p/Servo combination : heres a pic http://home.comcast.net/~cburg/lathe.html
[20:20:00] <cradek> change gears?
[20:20:19] <Paragon37> Yes it has
[20:20:32] <cradek> cnc is a huge improvement then :-)
[20:20:50] <Paragon37> Sure would be ... :-)
[20:21:58] <cradek> it's wonderful to fully cut a thread to the right size, even right up to a shoulder, with one line of gcode
[20:22:16] <Paragon37> Thanks for the gcam link JymmmEMC look realy good has anyone used it with success with EMC
[20:22:17] <archivist> Paragon37, lathe acually bolted to wood?
[20:23:05] <Paragon37> archivist that's not my actual lathe just a picture of the same model
[20:23:17] <archivist> ok
[20:23:47] <Paragon37> But it does look like it is which is no good at all due to the bed twisting ect etc
[20:23:52] <cradek> that's a small lathe - I'm fooled by the photos
[20:23:59] <cradek> I think that micrometer is 1"
[20:24:20] <skunkworks_> yep :)
[20:25:06] <cradek> does it have the crazy 16tpi leadscrews?
[20:25:19] <cradek> with 62.5 divisions per turn
[20:25:44] <cradek> (if so, cnc will help with that too!)
[20:26:08] <Paragon37> It's an ok lathe but one needs to work on it to get any good use out of it. They are rushed out of China and need a clean and setup
[20:26:33] <cradek> yes that's typical of the small chinese tools
[20:26:49] <cradek> they're a great set of castings to make a nice machine from, with some work
[20:27:02] <ds2> anomimasu: not setup to view the video
[20:27:08] <Paragon37> cradek: I think it does
[20:28:10] <Paragon37> Exactly a good starting point to build on. Everything is there but just need improving. Backlash is like a mile away from home ;-)
[20:28:35] <cradek> yes, backlash doesn't matter on a manual lathe
[20:29:37] <Paragon37> cradek what did you do to eliminate backlash for the servos? did you use ball screws?
[20:29:55] <cradek> no they are the original leadscrews with very fine triangular thread and metal nuts
[20:30:18] <cradek> backlash is not too bad, about .1mm, and I use backlash comp (in X) and it works fairly well
[20:30:21] <Paragon37> and they hold up alright?
[20:30:29] <cradek> so far...
[20:30:33] <Paragon37> Arr ok
[20:30:43] <cradek> the Z is not as good as the X
[20:31:02] <cradek> because I was not able to put full thrust bearings on it
[20:31:20] <cradek> the X mount is very good with one radial and two thrust bearings carefully adjusted for no slop
[20:31:35] <Paragon37> What would be a lead screw to use or anti back lash measure to implement (ie teflon screws, ball screws etc etc)
[20:32:01] <cradek> acme with delrin anti-backlash nuts works ok and are very cheap
[20:33:31] <cradek> http://dumpstercnc.com/leadnuts_acme.html
[20:33:37] <Paragon37> Oh ... it uses acme leads but has a brass nut... so all I may need to do is find the appropriate anti-backlash nut ... :-)
[20:33:37] <cradek> I used these on my little mill and I'm very happy with them
[20:34:21] <cradek> yes, but it depends how good/bad the screws are, there are some very bad quality acme screws
[20:35:16] <Paragon37> Thats true I would need to investigate that further...
[20:35:48] <cradek> what dia are the screws?
[20:36:02] <Paragon37> cradek I bout this kit today, thought it was a good deal £220 + VAT http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=5&products_id=8&osCsid=009896f25346576a87d4b166a08b5fc7
[20:36:43] <cradek> interesting
[20:37:18] <Paragon37> I think they are about 12mm or there abouts
[20:37:19] <cradek> 1/2 -16 would be very strange
[20:38:11] <Paragon37> I'm just going to google for it ...
[20:38:31] <cradek> I guess they could actually be metric
[20:41:26] <cradek> they could be 10x1.5mm
[20:45:09] <Paragon37> found this it has lead nut info http://www.fignoggle.com/kits/acme-leadnuts.htm
[20:47:36] <cradek> those nuts look VERY easy to make
[20:47:45] <Paragon37> I thinking the same
[20:48:10] <Paragon37> But an acme tap cost a packet
[20:48:12] <cradek> the kind that's spring loaded is better than the kind that's adjustable
[20:48:49] <cradek> nah, to tap plastic, just taper down a piece of acme and take your grinder to it to make some flutes
[20:49:04] <cradek> or, use a ball end mill if it's not too hard
[20:49:19] <Paragon37> how do you mean?
[20:49:57] <Paragon37> got you ... DUH
[20:49:57] <cradek> put it between centers, turn a taper on the end, then mill or grind 2-3 flutes
[20:51:14] <Paragon37> Good idea though ... now why did'nt I think of that :-o
[20:51:56] <Paragon37> Would Delrin be strong enough for a lead nut?
[20:52:10] <cradek> depends what you want to cut and how much delrin you have!
[20:53:56] <Paragon37> I Just answered my own question :- http://www.abssac.ltd.uk/Products/Linear-products/74/Anti_backlash_nuts.html
[20:55:35] <cradek> * cradek got a bunch of 1" thich delrin scrap at an auction recently
[20:55:57] <Paragon37> Nice
[20:56:06] <JymmmEMC> Paragon37: http://www.embeddedtronics.com/acmetap.html
[20:57:16] <cradek> cool find JymmmEMC
[20:57:22] <cradek> that's exactly what I would do :-)
[20:57:40] <cradek> a ball end mill makes nice flutes
[20:58:40] <Paragon37> Excellent work JymmmEMC
[20:59:03] <JymmmEMC> Paragon37: Not my doings, found it years ago.
[20:59:35] <Paragon37> Still as cradek mention cool find :-)
[21:01:01] <JymmmEMC> Just rambling here... I gotta say we have an excellent vet, we took in the baby cockatiel yesterday, and he called this morning to check up on her. Rare to find someone caring enough to do that in this day and age.
[21:01:25] <Paragon37> I'd Say ....
[21:02:00] <Paragon37> What was wrong with her JymmmEMC if you don't me asking?
[21:04:18] <JymmmEMC> If your not familure with birds, they will NOT show/display they are hurt or sick. When/if they do you know somehting is wrong. She was not her normal uppity self, very "quiet" and was always eating almost constantly.......
[21:06:35] <JymmmEMC> Suspected blockage in her crop as of Sunday. Took her in to the vet yesterday, he emptied the crop and looked under the microscope, saw some viral infection. He flushed the crop a couple of times and administered anti-biotics and we gave her some more here last night plus some other medicne too......
[21:07:34] <Paragon37> It sure hurts when things like this happen. One becomes so attached without even realising it.....
[21:07:50] <JymmmEMC> I went to work at 6pm, my gf says that her breathing was becoming difficult around 10pm, then got a better around midnight. When I got home at 3:30am she had died.
[21:10:07] <JymmmEMC> We even had asked the vet "we did/have we been doing wrong?" His response was "It's not what you have been doing wrong, but what's wrong with her". She had a very rough start, there were many many times we were never sure if she was going to make it over the last 12 weeks.
[21:11:00] <JymmmEMC> The last 3weeks she had been doing great (or so we thought), she was active, ate, drank, played well.
[21:11:02] <Paragon37> Thats tough going JymmmEMC
[21:11:26] <JymmmEMC> She was 3 months old to the day.
[21:11:58] <Paragon37> Dam shame mate!
[21:12:07] <JymmmEMC> thanks
[21:13:01] <JymmmEMC> It's 2pm, and I still have to find a spot to burrier her before I go to work at 6pm *heavy sigh* <snif>
[21:16:54] <lerneaen_hydra> :(
[21:17:50] <lerneaen_hydra> I get very emotionally attached to pets, it's never fun going through that
[21:18:35] <Paragon37> Tell me about it .... I love em but so dread that day!
[21:53:55] <JymmmEMC> In this house, it's more like "feathered children" then "pets".
[22:02:02] <dmess> yes birds are fun.. but finiky..
[22:02:50] <dmess> got a call at work 1 day saying the female cocatiel was eating the male...
[22:04:45] <dmess> she was prepping for egg making - unbenonst to me - and was suffering iron deficiency... found it in the males blood... picked at him till he was raw
[22:05:57] <dmess> had to separate them put her on supplemants and listen to them chat and yak at all hours from 1 cage to the other...
[22:16:44] <Paragon37> Catch you all later :-)
[22:17:00] <Paragon37> Chin up JymmEMC...
[22:24:47] <jlmjvm> SWPadnos:can this command be inverted,its backwards of what i need
[22:24:50] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/723619
[22:26:19] <SWPadnos> set the -invert parameter
[22:26:30] <SWPadnos> setp ppmc.0.dout.02.out-invert 1
[22:27:25] <jlmjvm> ahhh,i tried the -invert,but i didnt have the 1 after it
[22:27:49] <SWPadnos> ah. I'd think it would give an error in that case
[22:28:01] <SWPadnos> or set to 0, which is the opposite of what you want :)
[22:28:05] <jlmjvm> it did
[22:28:10] <SWPadnos> error?
[22:29:10] <jlmjvm> didnt even look ,was end of day,just changed it back and came home
[22:29:34] <SWPadnos> oh - I was wondering if you got an nerror, or if it got set to 0. I take it there was an err though
[22:29:46] <SWPadnos> man, I can't type at the moment
[22:31:03] <jlmjvm> yes,i typed in "linksp SpindleBrakeOn <= ppmc.0.dout.02.out-invert" and it gave an error
[22:31:21] <jlmjvm> so i just changed it back and came home
[22:31:27] <SWPadnos> ok - that's certain to give an error, since you can't link signals to parameters
[22:31:47] <SWPadnos> note that I typed "setp" up there, not "linksp"
[22:32:02] <jlmjvm> im seeing that now
[22:32:58] <jlmjvm> i need to add that line,correct?
[22:33:04] <SWPadnos> yes
[22:34:10] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/723635
[22:34:33] <SWPadnos> yep
[22:34:46] <jlmjvm> excellent
[22:35:00] <SWPadnos> gotta run for a bit. bbl
[22:35:45] <jlmjvm> thanks
[22:39:32] <cncuser> hi
[22:39:42] <cncuser> alex_joni: hi
[22:42:24] <cncuser> damn
[22:43:03] <cncuser> well, any of you having contact with alex via yahoo. watch out, ive just been allmost scammed by an identyti thief using his yahoo id!
[22:48:28] <skunkworks> details
[22:49:14] <cncuser> skunkworks: ok
[22:49:47] <cncuser> (11:28:08 PM) alex_joni: Buzz!!
[22:49:47] <cncuser> (11:28:12 PM) alex_joni: Hello
[22:49:47] <cncuser> (11:28:25 PM) alex_joni: How was work today?
[22:50:10] <cncuser> (11:31:54 PM) alex_joni: wrong again
[22:50:09] <cncuser> (11:31:58 PM) alex_joni: let me tell u
[22:50:09] <cncuser> (11:32:29 PM) alex_joni: my pastor is celebrating his 40th birthday
[22:50:09] <cncuser> (11:33:10 PM) alex_joni: and he said he is traveling to Nigeria for an evangelical purpose and i am worried. i will miss him
[22:50:09] <cncuser> (11:33:17 PM) alex_joni: thats what baffells me
[22:50:10] <cncuser> (11:33:22 PM) alex_joni: re u there
[22:50:12] <cncuser> (11:33:25 PM) alex_joni: ?
[22:50:16] <cncuser> (11:33:27 PM) alex_joni: Buzz!!
[22:50:29] <cncuser> (11:35:35 PM) alex_joni: But i want to get some thing for him and i am confused if i should send it to nigeria
[22:50:29] <cncuser> (11:35:48 PM) alex_joni: I called him and he told me he was enjoying nigeria
[22:50:42] <cncuser> (11:36:58 PM) alex_joni: what should i do?
[22:51:06] <cncuser> (11:44:05 PM) alex_joni: he likes phones, and electronice etc
[22:51:20] <cncuser> (11:49:09 PM) alex_joni: that wat i want, as a celebrant, u appreciate whatever people give to you right?
[22:51:34] <cncuser> (11:50:06 PM) alex_joni: ok then, let me get a phone for him
[22:51:41] <cncuser> (11:50:22 PM) alex_joni: but nwhat model is best and cheap?
[22:51:49] <cncuser> (11:51:40 PM) alex_joni: ok lte me by him Nokia n70
[22:52:02] <cncuser> (11:52:22 PM) alex_joni: but this is where i will need your favour...canu help me send the phone to nigeria pls?
[22:52:07] <cncuser> (11:53:21 PM) alex_joni: am not in states now and the money with me, i want to use it to come back to the states
[22:52:19] <cncuser> (11:53:41 PM) alex_joni: when i get back, i will pay back with interest
[22:52:20] <cncuser> well
[22:52:31] <cncuser> we all know that alex joni is not from the states, dont we?
[22:52:47] <cncuser> also
[22:52:49] <cncuser> later
[22:53:07] <cncuser> now some test to make shure this is no new nigeria connection scam
[22:53:10] <cncuser> whats my nick, emc speaking :) ?
[22:53:14] <cncuser> since then
[22:53:21] <cncuser> i have no new message
[22:53:40] <cncuser> but been tried to be added to 2 peoples yahoo buddylists
[22:53:48] <jlmjvm> wow,thats like an episode of dateline nbc
[22:53:51] <cncuser> some girl named jenny , 25 years old... bla
[22:53:56] <cncuser> yes
[22:53:57] <cncuser> crazy
[22:54:05] <cncuser> i only knew nigerian scam emails till now
[22:54:21] <jlmjvm> wish we could figure out a way to screw up their scam
[22:54:33] <jlmjvm> this was on tv
[22:54:46] <cncuser> i wish i could figure out how they got access to alexs yahoo account
[22:55:19] <cncuser> i typed him a private message but dont know his email
[22:55:45] <cncuser> if anyone knows it it would be nice to tell hiom via email too
[22:56:50] <jlmjvm> i thought i had it but it musta been deleted
[22:58:43] <jlmjvm> thats all we need is a bunch of nigerian scamers
[22:59:08] <jlmjvm> trying to scam us
[22:59:39] <cncuser> well
[22:59:55] <cncuser> there once was a site, or still is, i dont remeber the name.
[23:00:08] <cncuser> where people messed around with scammers
[23:00:32] <cncuser> letting the do stupid photos of themself as a prove taht they are no bots and stuff
[23:00:51] <cncuser> also once the was someone actually getting a scammer to send money to the "victim"
[23:01:00] <cncuser> il;l try to find it
[23:05:00] <skunkworks> yikes
[23:05:12] <skunkworks> you would think they would atleast change the country
[23:07:05] <cncuser> well if they had changed it, i would probably go and buy such a stupid phone tomorrow
[23:07:28] <cncuser> internet makes one even more paranoid
[23:14:00] <Adam1_> Done my Z conversion now!!!!
[23:14:13] <Adam1_> http://imagebin.org/10800 1m Div 120in/min velocity
[23:14:28] <Adam1_> 0.001in max error constant velocity error at 0.000
[23:14:30] <skunkworks> Great!!!
[23:14:45] <Adam1_> that one was easyyyyyyy to tune
[23:16:10] <cncuser> ok, im off
[23:16:12] <cncuser> bye
[23:16:18] <cncuser> just wanted to warn
[23:18:32] <Adam1_> "<cncuser> just wanted to warn" warn?
[23:21:15] <fenn> about the nigerian instant message scammers
[23:22:27] <fenn> looks like a very neat and tidy 0.001in error
[23:22:42] <fenn> can you fix that with ff*?
[23:22:57] <Adam1_> I fixed the constant error with FF1
[23:23:04] <Adam1_> it was at 0.048
[23:23:12] <Adam1_> ff1=3.33
[23:23:25] <fenn> what about ff2?
[23:23:37] <Adam1_> p=275
[23:23:46] <Adam1_> I dont have ff2
[23:23:55] <Adam1_> i have ff0 ff1
[23:24:46] <Adam1_> I and D are both at 0 they didnt seem to help
[23:26:23] <Adam1_> What is the best way to get rid of the accel and deccel spikes?
[23:26:50] <fenn> that's what i was saying about ff2
[23:27:18] <fenn> For position loops, the contribution is pro‐ portional to acceleration, and can be used to compensate for inertia.
[23:27:23] <Adam1_> so what is that feed forward Jerk?
[23:30:16] <Adam1_> also is that just something i can directly add to my ini?
[23:31:23] <skunkworks> your ini doesn't have ff2? you should be able to add it - but you also need to hook it up in the hal file to the pid module.
[23:31:24] <jepler> if your hal file has the lines that refer to FF0, FF1, and FF2 then you can simply add it to the inifile in the appropriate place
[23:31:28] <jepler> core_servo.hal:setp pid.0.FF1 [AXIS_0]FF1
[23:31:55] <jepler> however, it looks like the sample files often omit FF2
[23:32:05] <Adam1_> yeah I am FF2less
[23:32:24] <jepler> then find the lines for FF1 (there will be one per axis in your .hal files) and copy them to make new lines for FF2
[23:32:30] <Adam1_> Same as my core_servo.hal
[23:32:40] <jepler> then you can add FF2 lines to your [AXIS] sections of the ini file
[23:32:45] <Adam1_> roger
[23:33:05] <jepler> I think that in emc 2.0.x there may not have been FF2 yet
[23:33:47] <Adam1_> I am running 2.1.7 with the 5i20 config
[23:34:12] <Adam1_> Anyways I have FF2 now
[23:36:04] <fenn> i didnt even realize it was an .ini setting, i thought people were using setp (silly me)
[23:37:29] <Adam1_> Question, how is FF2 working and what are resonable values for FF2?
[23:38:27] <jepler> FF2 is multiplied by the second derivative of the input value (i.e., acceleration if the input is position) and added with the other P, I, D, FF0, FF1 terms to give the output value
[23:38:53] <jepler> basically, increasing FF2 above zero will increase the output voltage during acceleration and decrease it during acceleration
[23:39:53] <Adam1_> yeah I just played with it, I can hear a knock somewhere with FF2 above zero
[23:40:06] <jepler> in the only example I have on hand the FF1 value is small (0.025)
[23:40:10] <jepler> er, FF2 value
[23:40:13] <Adam1_> no knock with FF2 at 0, sounded like a hammer hit it
[23:40:21] <Adam1_> a little hammer
[23:43:54] <Adam1_> ok here is a screenshow of it now, ff2 = 0.05 velocity was 120in/min Scale is 200u
[23:43:59] <Adam1_> http://imagebin.org/10802
[23:44:05] <Adam1_> 0.000 error baby
[23:44:08] <Adam1_> Thanks guys
[23:47:15] <fenn> just needed a little tap with a hammer.. and remember, if it doesnt work the first time, get a bigger hammer
[23:47:37] <fenn> seriously though, this is because emc2 is not jerk limited
[23:48:44] <fenn> with high accels that 'tapping' is bad for ballscrews and bearings
[23:49:16] <Adam1_> The tapping is gone
[23:49:36] <Adam1_> no tap little error happy Z-axis
[23:49:58] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/common/core_servo.hal: add FF2 to sample configurations
[23:49:58] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/dallur-thc/dallur-advanced.ini: add FF2 to sample configurations
[23:49:58] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/demo_mazak/ (demo_mazak.hal demo_mazak.ini): add FF2 to sample configurations
[23:49:59] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/etch-servo/ (etch.hal etch.ini): add FF2 to sample configurations
[23:50:00] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/m5i20/ (m5i20.ini m5i20_pidtest.hal): add FF2 to sample configurations
[23:50:02] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/motenc/ (motenc.ini motenc_motion.hal motenc_pidtest.hal): add FF2 to sample configurations
[23:50:05] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/ppmc/ (ppmc.ini ppmc_servo.hal): add FF2 to sample configurations
[23:50:07] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/sim/ (servo_sim.hal servo_sim.ini): add FF2 to sample configurations
[23:50:09] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stg/stg.ini: add FF2 to sample configurations
[23:50:11] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/univpwm/ (univpwm.ini univpwm_servo.hal): add FF2 to sample configurations
[23:50:14] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/vti/vti.ini: add FF2 to sample configurations
[23:50:16] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/univstep/ (univstep.ini univstep_servo.hal): add FF2 to sample configurations