#emc | Logs for 2007-09-30

[00:49:45] <Ziegler> anyone do a mach 3 to EMC2 benchmark comparison?
[00:51:16] <Ziegler> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqVKOilZO2A << that nice looking lady can dance
[00:52:07] <tomp> re comparison: interesting... lotsa tiny variables to make it an apples to apples comparison, then arguably a crippled version of one player. (and i no got mach or steppers )
[00:52:48] <Ziegler> sorry guys that was the wrong window
[00:53:05] <Ziegler> Reason I ask about comparison...
[00:53:19] <Ziegler> the computer I just picked up for my new set-up
[00:53:26] <Ziegler> has it already installed
[00:53:54] <Ziegler> before I wipe it out, I wondered if the info would be of use to anyone
[00:56:37] <tomp> Ziegler: you might image the drive before wiping
[00:56:44] <Ziegler> ya
[01:21:06] <tomp> in streamer, is the depth option the number of lines? ( how many data sets of input )?
[01:21:19] <tomp> or bytes?
[01:52:30] <fenn> tomp: "depth" is the buffer length, for example you'd need more depth for a fast thread because there's more data going in before you have a chance to write
[01:54:13] <tomp> fenn: is that measured in 'lines'? if i cfg streamer with 'ffbs' and want 100 lines of 'ffbs', is depth = 100 ( or do i calc the bytes or what )?
[01:54:57] <tomp> a buffer is usually some reserved bytes right?
[01:58:10] <fenn> depth appears to be number of samples
[01:58:24] <fenn> but i think in hal everything is 32 bits anyway
[01:59:09] <fenn> oops, samples times number of channels
[01:59:46] <fenn> max_depth = MAX_SHMEM / (sizeof(shmem_data_t) * tmp_fifo[n].num_pins)
[02:01:10] <user_> user_ is now known as skinnypuppy1334
[02:01:36] <tomp> 32 bit floats? single prec?
[02:01:44] <tomp> btw thanks
[02:04:07] <SWPadnos> yes, HAL uses 32-bit floats for floating point data
[02:04:19] <SWPadnos> 64-bit would require extra locking to have atomic updates
[02:04:35] <tomp> it's important because i want just 1 line of buffer, and for streamer to report when its done, an outside app determines next motion ( this may allow real edm and avoid pid )
[02:04:51] <tomp> SWPadnos: thanks, no atomic update needed :)
[02:05:04] <tomp> just sounded funny
[02:05:04] <SWPadnos> you can't rely on a userspace app to get the signal in a known amount of time
[02:05:12] <tomp> right noit real time
[02:05:15] <tomp> not
[02:06:38] <fenn> it sounds like you're using the wrong tool for the job
[02:06:44] <fenn> are you sure you shouldnt be using classicladder instead?
[02:07:40] <tomp> i want to send a single positon to hal, and wait for that to be achieved and then send another.
[02:08:02] <tomp> i dont see a reason to use ladder
[02:08:04] <SWPadnos> stepgen or pid?
[02:09:00] <SWPadnos> actually, it probably doesn't matter
[02:09:35] <tomp> neither, servo values to servo amplifiers made from the proportions of each vector asked for. the desired motion is broken into 3 analog voltages by the direction wanted and by the velocity desired.
[02:10:10] <SWPadnos> streamer won't tell you when the motors are in position, only when it has output the next set of coordinates
[02:10:41] <SWPadnos> so you still need to rig up some modules to look at ferror
[02:10:43] <tomp> right i ask for a very small amount and hope i can tell streamer 'foreget about it' if i want to change direction before it gets done
[02:11:13] <SWPadnos> you may be able to make some configuration that enables streamer once it gets to the next point
[02:11:23] <SWPadnos> but that's probably a nightmare
[02:11:55] <tomp> i dont have ferror, thats a feature of velocity tracking.
[02:12:22] <tomp> i have perror ( position error )
[02:12:30] <tomp> not velocity error
[02:13:10] <SWPadnos> whichever error it is that tells you the machine is in position when it drops to near-zero ;)
[02:13:26] <tomp> in-position, right
[02:16:35] <tomp> back to the main idea, i hope to be able to ask hal to move a single position, than ask another. ( all non-realtime, all non-pid, because thats what i've been aiming for and building )
[02:17:13] <fenn> if you dont use PID what makes hal turn the motors?
[02:17:14] <SWPadnos> how do you expect HAL to move from position to position?
[02:17:20] <SWPadnos> right - what he said
[02:17:32] <fenn> its not like you're positioning an electron beam
[02:17:57] <SWPadnos> even if you were, there's got to be an interface from the number representing the requested position and the actuator moving something to the requested position
[02:18:00] <tomp> send velocity voltage to amplifiers thru hal, monitor position thru hal
[02:18:17] <jmkasunich_> and how do you decide what voltage is correct?
[02:18:21] <SWPadnos> you really really want that to be in realtime, probably with PID
[02:18:55] <SWPadnos> the thing that calculates positions doesn't need to be RT or PID, but the thing that actually positions the motors does
[02:19:03] <fenn> you could just switch on the motors from across the room, and then walk over to the machine to shut them off when you hear they are in position
[02:19:51] <tomp> external program uses the known velocity/voltage ratio of the amplifier * the proportion of joint travel (eg 1mm/minute * the part of the vector for each joint concerned in the motion )
[02:20:18] <jmkasunich_> so you're essentially doing open loop control
[02:20:44] <fenn> i think it might be necessary for him because encoders aren't high enough resolution
[02:20:50] <tomp> hal sees it as open loop. the loop is closed by the external program making the request
[02:21:18] <SWPadnos> then you don't need streamer
[02:21:36] <SWPadnos> your external program just needs to connect to the DAC pins on the hardware driver
[02:21:58] <tomp> true, but streamer & halstreamer are already there
[02:22:13] <SWPadnos> but they aren't useful - they just add complexity
[02:22:14] <tomp> i just want a 1 depth on streamer
[02:22:17] <jmkasunich_> what language is your external program in?
[02:22:49] <tomp> python maybe, parts in C ( gap voltage vs desired voltage to desired velocity )
[02:23:11] <jmkasunich_> just make your program a component (user space, no need for RT)
[02:23:26] <jmkasunich_> export a few pins, connect them to the DACs, and write to them whenever you want
[02:23:38] <SWPadnos> yah - use comp, it'll be the easiest
[02:24:33] <tomp> speed where speed is needed, but modeled in scripting languages like python to begin with, ok comp. i'm trying to save the dro and basic machine operator panel as much as possible ( flush machine on.... )
[02:25:02] <SWPadnos> comp just makes it very very easy to create a HAL interface. the code is more or less C after the preamble
[02:25:16] <SWPadnos> actually, it is C
[02:27:09] <tomp> ok, thanks... not entirely a new direction so maybe i can grasp it
[03:52:28] <Skullworks-PGAB> Does putting 2 caps in series double the voltage capacity?
[03:53:39] <Jymmm> capacitance acts like resistors in parallel
[03:54:54] <fenn> Skullworks-PGAB: yes
[03:55:27] <fenn> hyperphysics is good for this kind of stuff http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/capac.html
[03:55:35] <Skullworks-PGAB> but is it considered safe in common practice?
[03:55:56] <fenn> well you'd be doubling the uncertainty
[03:56:15] <fenn> and there's more curent being dissipated because the ESR adds up
[03:56:22] <fenn> s/curent/power
[03:56:55] <fenn> in general it's a bad idea, but sometimes necessary
[03:58:22] <Skullworks-PGAB> ESR - my last study of electronics was in the 70's
[03:58:22] <jmkasunich_> if you series caps, you need to use the same capacitance, and you probably need balancing resistors to ensure equal voltage across each cap
[04:01:29] <jmkasunich_> two in series is standard practice for 480V AC drives - the DC bus is 480*sqrt(2) = ~650V, and electrolytic caps are only available at 450 and sometimes 500V
[04:04:28] <Skullworks-PGAB> saw someone selling a stepper pws - used 4 caps - 2 parallel sets of 2 in series. Caps were 25V - Pws was rated at 48 open circuit
[04:04:42] <jmkasunich_> thats just dumb
[04:05:11] <jmkasunich_> 50, 63, 75, and 100V caps are readily available
[04:05:15] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah - no margin for back emf
[04:05:17] <jmkasunich_> and probably would result in lower cost
[04:07:11] <jmkasunich_> I can't imagine a good reason to series caps at that voltage
[04:07:20] <Skullworks-PGAB> these were snap in on a PCB which also had a 25A Bridge rect. - Size was nice - but I didn't trust it
[04:07:36] <jmkasunich_> maybe somebody pulled a big box of 25V caps out of a dumpster ;-)
[04:08:21] <tomp> so series caps increases WVDC?
[04:08:34] <jmkasunich_> tomp: yes
[04:08:36] <jmkasunich_> and decreases uF
[04:11:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> so how much % of the rated MFD is lost?
[04:11:33] <jmkasunich_> two identical caps in series have half the uF and twice the voltage of a single cap
[04:11:57] <jmkasunich_> (you only get twice the voltage if you ensure sharing, usually by balancing resistors)
[04:13:05] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah that would mean you loose alot of your bang for the buck
[04:13:40] <jmkasunich_> for anything under 400V, series caps are a waste of money - less performance for more cash
[04:15:02] <tomp> newcapacitance =1/[ (1/c1) + (1/c2)] http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/capac.html (that 400V rule of thumb is handy )
[04:15:29] <jmkasunich_> the formula for caps in series is the same as the one for resistors in parallel
[04:16:11] <jmkasunich_> the 400V rule applies to electrolytic caps - 450V is the upper end of the "mainstream" products
[04:16:26] <jmkasunich_> 500V ones are available, usually the cost/performance isn't as good for 500V ones
[04:16:48] <jmkasunich_> but if you need 1000V DC, 2x500V might be better than 3x400V
[04:17:16] <jmkasunich_> for film and ceramic caps, series almost never makes sense, since single caps are available up to 1000V volts or more
[04:18:52] <jmkasunich_> fun with electrolytics: http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/blosxom/capbang.html
[04:20:00] <jmkasunich_> goodnight all
[04:21:21] <fenn> nite
[04:21:44] <fenn> now i get to figure out what to put on the budget-request list for my local univeristy robotics club
[04:22:01] <fenn> totally open-ended, and we've been pretty much guaranteed at least $1k
[04:22:28] <fenn> thing is, nobody really has any idea what they want to do
[04:23:00] <tomp> nite jmk, thanks
[04:25:26] <tomp> how do i find the distance traveled for an xyza motion?
[04:25:34] <tomp> if Xmoves 1", Y 2" Z 3" and C moves 45degrees at 2" radius, then XYZ moved 3.74...inches and C moved 1.47... inches.
[04:25:35] <tomp> but im stumbling on the total travel. is it just the sum?
[04:25:37] <Skullworks-PGAB> I want to shoot some pics of our old GMF robot. I been thinking about making one like it - maybe 1/3 scale.
[04:26:00] <fenn> you have to use kinematics with rotary axes
[04:26:10] <fenn> unless everything pivots around the tool-tip (unlikely)
[04:27:19] <fenn> Skullworks-PGAB: so far we have, a big tank-thing, a robotic saxophone, and a gantry of some sort
[04:27:53] <fenn> and a very well equipped dorm-room-sized workshop
[04:28:56] <fenn> sherline mill and lathe (not cnc)
[04:29:16] <fenn> nobody seemed terribly interested in cnc'ing them
[04:31:06] <Skullworks-PGAB> I'm thinking I will have about 24" vertical travel using 36" drill rod for the colunms
[04:31:41] <fenn> its not an arm?
[04:32:00] <Skullworks-PGAB> old GMF CARROL
[04:33:02] <fenn> well that doesnt tell me anything
[04:34:13] <Skullworks-PGAB> I'll shoot some pics
[04:34:59] <Skullworks-PGAB> it moves a ram assy on 2 vertical shafts
[04:35:16] <Skullworks-PGAB> ram telescopes straight out
[04:35:25] <ds2> tip: when a lathe makes rumbling noises, stop and inspect the cog belt
[04:35:43] <SWPadnos> fenn, try for a pick&place machine
[04:36:02] <SWPadnos> or at least a robot that will pick things up from somewhere and place them somewhere else
[04:36:07] <ds2> a slipping cog belt makes a loud rumbling noise!
[04:36:42] <fenn> i think that's what the gantry-robot was originally for
[04:36:44] <Skullworks-PGAB> has a double gripper head which can rotate 180 degrees around the centerlint of the ram
[04:37:10] <fenn> it would be cool to do some stuff with image processing though, if i have access to people who know about that stuff
[04:37:32] <SWPadnos> a robotic tracker would be cool
[04:37:54] <fenn> a scara controlled by emc would be cool too.. i was thinking about making one anyway
[04:38:00] <Skullworks-PGAB> this is O L D FANUC yellow cap 4 brush DC servos with air counterbalance on the vertical ram lift
[04:40:19] <Skullworks-PGAB> I was thinking of dumping the air counter balance and using a counter weight system
[04:41:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> hmmm
[04:41:34] <Skullworks-PGAB> ok - that would just be tooo
[04:41:36] <Skullworks-PGAB> cool
[04:42:09] <Skullworks-PGAB> build the robot - to act as the ATC for my mini mill
[04:42:51] <Skullworks-PGAB> I would find myself in Classic ladder hell for sure...
[05:00:55] <toast> toast is now known as toastydeath
[05:12:46] <tomp> fenn: the machine is like this http://imagebin.org/10741, what distance does the tool tip travel? the sum of [ sqrt(x^2 +y^2 +z^2) + ((deg/360)*(2*pi*Radius)) ] ?
[05:19:21] <tomp> im guessing it >is< just the sum
[05:23:55] <cradek> I don't think so tomp
[05:24:25] <cradek> your formula doesn't give a different answer if C is going with (say) X or against it
[05:24:42] <toastydeath> i don't understand the question
[05:24:56] <tomp> the distance the c moves doesnt depend on X or Y or Z does it?
[05:25:03] <cradek> with X -> C <- the tool might barely move
[05:25:08] <SWPadnos> it's also different if you mean "total distance traveled" or "net offset at the end of the move"
[05:25:14] <cradek> with X -> C -> the same amounts, the tool moves a lot
[05:25:21] <cradek> right, I assumed the former
[05:25:42] <tomp> i dont get the notation X -> C ->
[05:25:46] <cradek> if you mean dist(end - start) it sure might be zero (imagine C turning 360)
[05:25:54] <SWPadnos> x moving to the right, C moving to the right also
[05:26:18] <toastydeath> is this a drag cutter
[05:26:32] <SWPadnos> no
[05:26:34] <toastydeath> oh
[05:26:39] <tomp> like adrag cutter, just a poser really
[05:27:03] <tomp> in sink edm you dont turn tool or work, its like punching
[05:27:09] <SWPadnos> tomp, are you looking for the distance between the start and end points, or the length of the path traveled?
[05:27:20] <tomp> length of path traveled
[05:27:22] <SWPadnos> ok
[05:27:40] <SWPadnos> so C moving 360 = 2*pi*radius, not 0 :)
[05:27:47] <tomp> the xyz is easy, the arc travel is easy, is it just the sum?
[05:27:47] <SWPadnos> (good to know )
[05:27:58] <cradek> tomp: no :-)
[05:28:19] <SWPadnos> you need the integral of the sine and cosine components of the arc travel
[05:28:32] <SWPadnos> (which luckily are also sine and cosine funcs)
[05:28:58] <cradek> hey I bet that's right
[05:30:08] <SWPadnos> but it's also dependent on the other axes, and I think you need to intrgrate the overall motion, not the components
[05:30:24] <tomp> the sin & cos of the angle are known, but the rest is vague, integrate form where to where ? from begin angle to end angle?
[05:30:32] <SWPadnos> so it's integ(x+ [X component of C])
[05:30:46] <SWPadnos> from start of move to end of move
[05:31:03] <SWPadnos> so that would be X from x0 to x1, y from y0 to y1, etc
[05:31:19] <tomp> oh, are you looking at the total X motion? the part of X caused by Xaxis and the part caused by Caxis?
[05:31:28] <SWPadnos> it may end up being a simple formula when you're done, but I think that's the approach to take
[05:31:31] <SWPadnos> yes
[05:31:54] <SWPadnos> so you need to integrate the sqrt of the three components along the path
[05:32:13] <SWPadnos> sqrt of sum of the components
[05:32:25] <SWPadnos> on a good day, when it's not 1:30 AM, I might be able to do that :)
[05:32:45] <tomp> sorry,i'm looking for the total distance traveled in space not in any axis
[05:32:56] <SWPadnos> understood, that's the dqrt of the sum
[05:32:59] <SWPadnos> sqrt
[05:33:25] <SWPadnos> this is the basic calculus way of doing it
[05:33:32] <tomp> sqrt( 1^2 + 2^2 + 3^ + 1.57079^2 ) ??? cool
[05:33:44] <SWPadnos> no, you need to integrate that along the entire path
[05:34:16] <SWPadnos> which will hopefully result in some relatively simple equations, but it may not
[05:43:02] <tomp> are you saying that the tool travel distance is affected by the c rotation and the x axis travel? (to simplify it to just 2 axis )
[05:43:11] <SWPadnos> yes
[05:43:46] <SWPadnos> consider that there is no travel if X+Y are moving in a circle, but C is rotating to keep the tool stationary
[05:44:50] <SWPadnos> there's clearly travel in X, Y and C for that case, but they sum to zero
[05:45:29] <SWPadnos> (the displacement of the tool is always zero in that case)
[05:46:31] <SWPadnos> that may be a bad example, since I think you're looking for a linear move in XYZ plus some motion in C
[05:46:46] <toastydeath> i'm not sure what the C axis is for in this situation
[05:47:15] <SWPadnos> so you can maintain orientation of the tool, I think
[05:47:19] <SWPadnos> err - maybe not
[05:47:20] <toastydeath> oh, right, the drag thing
[05:47:25] <SWPadnos> nevermind
[05:47:28] <toastydeath> it's for cutting vinyl, right?
[05:47:34] <SWPadnos> no, it's EDM
[05:47:40] <toastydeath> oh, whack
[05:47:50] <tomp> c creates a pose , a sinking edm sinks a form at 12" radus from center at 30 20 and 10 degrees
[05:47:50] <toastydeath> then i'm really lost.
[05:48:11] <toastydeath> that didn't help! but nevermind.
[05:48:15] <tomp> its simpler than other motions, neither the tool or work spins
[05:48:31] <tomp> like a rubber stamp
[05:49:36] <toastydeath> oh, so you're just orienting
[05:49:39] <toastydeath> i see
[05:49:58] <toastydeath> ty sir
[05:52:14] <tomp> well i'm trying to calc the velocity of each axis by finding what proportion each axis moves of the total motion.
[05:52:14] <tomp> and even if the net result is null, the velocity depends on the units moved not the distance between start and finish.
[06:01:52] <tomp> SWPadnos: what am i looking for if i want the work done, not the net effect? regarding "consider that there is no travel if X+Y are moving in a circle, but C is rotating to keep the tool stationary"
[06:07:09] <tomp> if this were a stepper, i'd just add all the steps and ignore the direction bit , that would be the work done. yes, this is just semantic. work is a better word than travel.
[06:09:03] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure I can think it through at the moment. maybe after a god night's sleep I could
[06:09:37] <tomp> hey, thanks for talking about it :)
[06:09:46] <tomp> g'nite
[06:09:54] <SWPadnos> np. night
[06:14:42] <Jymmm> A'God night' sleep huh... I wonder how long that is???
[06:14:55] <SWPadnos> all of Sunday
[06:15:05] <Jymmm> lol, very good =)
[06:43:15] <Jymmm> OH MY GAWD!!!
[07:50:12] <fenn> tomp think you need something like (cos(C)*mumble + x )^2 + (sin(C)*grumble + y)^2
[07:50:22] <fenn> +z^2
[09:18:01] <toast_> toast_ is now known as toastydeath
[10:02:25] <Paragon37> Hello All, what do I need to change to speed up step pulses in the ini file?
[10:09:12] <fenn> reduce BASE_PERIOD
[10:09:40] <fenn> if you lower it too much, it will lock up the machine
[10:10:17] <fenn> if that isnt enough there's a new double step rate driver in CVS
[10:10:46] <fenn> but i'm not here, so good luck
[10:24:16] <_epineh> Hey alex_joni, r u there ?
[10:31:09] <_epineh> just dropping in to say thanks for helping me out, got my pluto reading the encoders today, now just have to build some drivers and I am in business :)
[10:34:08] <Paragon37> Thanks Fen
[12:24:09] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[12:50:10] <Paragon37> Hello .. I have a question regarding datum of a mill that has travel of X=160mm Y=90 Z=115mm. The mill (A Denford Starmill) has three micro switches which I need to travel (one at a time as they are looped together) too to set the home possition. But I then need to travel X-160 and Y-90 then set home again as the micro switches are on the opposite side to standard cordinate setup. I wish to...
[12:50:12] <Paragon37> ...do this automaticaly has anyone got any ideas?
[12:54:03] <SWPadnos> Paragon37, that can be done by setting HOME_OFFSET. I don't know the exact setup you need, but homing should be well described in the user manual
[13:08:10] <jlmjvm> SWPadnos:has anyone ever used EMC with a Galil?
[13:08:22] <SWPadnos> don't think so, but I don't know
[13:08:39] <SWPadnos> I think the Galil cards like to do their own PID, and that doesn't fit well with EMC
[13:09:25] <Paragon37> Thanks SWPadnos
[13:09:30] <SWPadnos> sure
[13:11:56] <jlmjvm> that may be why its running in a dos program
[13:12:51] <SWPadnos> I think their cards are good, but there's no EMC driver. I'm not sure they release their programming specs, and if not, there won't be a driver ... :)
[13:15:03] <jlmjvm> i heard they are good also
[13:35:14] <Paragon37> I have just set HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 1 ie non zero does this turn homing functionality on ie via switch .. or do I need other directives, I am using the stepper_inch ini file.
[13:36:11] <alex_joni> g'morning y'all
[13:53:10] <jlmjvm> alex_joni:good morning
[13:54:36] <alex_joni> hi jlmjvm
[13:55:51] <jlmjvm> Paragon:HOME_SEARCH_VEL is how fast it travels to the switch
[13:56:39] <jlmjvm> the latch vel is how fast it moves after it hits the switch
[13:56:53] <jlmjvm> mine is .5 and -.1
[13:58:04] <jlmjvm> i can pastebin my .ini file if you want to use it as an example
[14:17:20] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/720598
[14:19:06] <jlmjvm> alex_joni:this is what I was gonna put on the wiki,if you think its ok
[14:21:29] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: it's ok with me
[14:21:45] <alex_joni> but you might want to make it a bit more readable (more & shorter paragraphs)
[14:21:48] <alex_joni> :)
[14:22:12] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is a bit tired.. hard to read the stuff when lacking concentration
[14:22:16] <jlmjvm> can do
[14:22:54] <alex_joni> perfect.. maybe some pictures / schematics later
[14:29:39] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/ladder/ (5 files): initial ladder introduction
[14:32:35] <alex_joni> bbl
[14:41:22] <jmkasunich__> jmkasunich__ is now known as jmkasunich
[18:31:40] <skunkworks> jepler: 399487
[18:31:43] <skunkworks> heh
[18:32:03] <skunkworks> jepler: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=348580&postcount=256
[18:36:10] <cradek> is that one smileyface beating the other (dead) smileyface with a folding chair?
[18:36:34] <skunkworks> umm - yah
[18:36:55] <cradek> I see why people like web bbses - you just can't get that kind of thing on a normal mailing list.
[18:37:05] <skunkworks> :)
[18:37:32] <skunkworks> Hi chris
[18:37:36] <cradek> hi sam
[18:37:57] <alex_joni> hi guys
[18:38:00] <cradek> hi alex
[18:38:07] <skunkworks> Hi alex
[18:38:25] <skunkworks> fiscal year end here. yeck
[18:39:14] <alex_joni> yeck
[18:42:01] <fenn> well, he closed half of the loop
[18:43:00] <skunkworks> yep - he is making some drives based on modified H-bridge that jmk and I had made.
[18:43:30] <fenn> those motors look quite a bit smaller than yours
[18:43:48] <fenn> dare i say it might be overkill
[18:45:00] <skunkworks> I think he is scaling it down and making some sort of current limit
[18:51:11] <cradek> I wonder if I have the smallest fully-functioning servo emc machine
[18:56:33] <skunkworks> cradek: any new pictures of the vacumm table?
[18:56:44] <cradek> nope not yet
[18:57:08] <cradek> I hooked it up yesterday - I need more vacuum (as I think we all predicted)
[18:57:26] <skunkworks> what are you using for vacumme?
[18:57:42] <cradek> that little 15"-of-water pump
[18:57:46] <skunkworks> heh vacuum
[18:57:54] <cradek> it's more like a vacuum cleaner
[18:58:08] <skunkworks> ah - we have a 1hp vane pump :)
[18:58:13] <skunkworks> works good
[18:58:27] <skunkworks> no clue what it gets down to - but it has enough volume
[18:58:32] <alex_joni> did I mention I hate doing docs?
[18:58:45] <cradek> I have two? other vacuum pump shaped things in the barn, I don't know anything about them
[18:59:02] <cradek> they may both require 220 though
[18:59:06] <skunkworks> left over from milking?
[18:59:12] <cradek> so I'll worry about it in another week or two
[19:04:56] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: Heh, it's not so bad
[19:06:04] <JymmmEMC> anyone remember the cli tool for tweaking services?
[19:06:44] <JymmmEMC> something sysv
[19:06:49] <JymmmEMC> syscctl
[19:06:54] <JymmmEMC> something like that
[19:09:31] <alex_joni> sysctl?
[19:09:42] <alex_joni> sysctl - configure kernel parameters at runtime
[19:12:28] <JymmmEMC> let me try that
[19:12:39] <alex_joni> there's sysv-rc-conf in ubuntu
[19:14:02] <JymmmEMC> yeah... that's it!!! ty
[19:16:31] <JymmmEMC> If I disba;e cups, will that prevent ghostscript printing too?
[19:16:32] <alex_joni> np
[19:16:42] <alex_joni> no idea :D
[19:16:56] <JymmmEMC> LET's FIND OUT!!! =)
[19:17:10] <alex_joni> I think it shouldn't
[19:17:43] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/ladder/ (5 files): more classicladder docs
[19:18:15] <JymmmEMC> oh gawd... festival is running (text to speech) and I don't even have a sound card! Eeeeesh
[19:19:53] <JymmmEMC> This is almost as bad as M$ and running crap that you really don't need
[19:20:16] <alex_joni> at least you have the option to turn things off :D
[19:20:37] <LawrenceG> you have the source JymmmEMC ... you can remove it!
[19:20:43] <LawrenceG> :}
[19:20:50] <LawrenceG> use the force Luke
[19:20:59] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: If I knew they were even running.... there's no gui that has all the services, just a limited subset
[19:21:00] <alex_joni> use the source luke
[19:21:15] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: ps -aux has 'em
[19:21:16] <LawrenceG> use the source JymmmEMC
[19:21:43] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: how do you think I found them running in the first place, but that doens't let me shut em down.
[19:21:59] <LawrenceG> hi guys... working on a lathe config
[19:22:05] <JymmmEMC> SYSTEM > ADMIN > SERVICE doesn't even show hp in the list
[19:22:21] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: Use the soruce luke!
[19:22:36] <LawrenceG> yea baby
[19:23:46] <LawrenceG> rebuilding latest cvs as we speak
[19:24:20] <JymmmEMC> LawrenceG: apt-get or nuttin!
[19:25:40] <LawrenceG> oops... make install fails...... something about ../bin/stepconf : no such file or dir.... rats
[19:25:48] <JymmmEMC> HA HA
[19:26:01] <LawrenceG> ok ... who broke it?
[19:26:23] <alex_joni> you did
[19:26:24] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/ladder/classic_ladder.lyx: fix line too long for pdf
[19:26:34] <alex_joni> did you make clean/make first?
[19:26:36] <fenn> cvs up -dPA
[19:26:45] <fenn> in the emc2/ dir
[19:26:49] <LawrenceG> trying that now
[19:27:25] <skunkworks> LawrenceG: following these directions?
[19:27:25] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_5_10_and_6_06_from_source
[19:28:24] <LawrenceG> yes..... have built many times..... just todays is acting up.... make clean might help if some things have been rearranged for the 2.2 release
[19:28:38] <JymmmEMC> apt-get ftw!!!
[19:29:09] <fenn> jymmm you whiny whindows hyuser
[19:29:10] <LawrenceG> I want pre 2.2 for the named varaiables in gcode....
[19:30:03] <LawrenceG> with owords, gcode becomes a full programming language
[19:30:08] <JymmmEMC> fenn: If I wanted to work harder and be all stressed out, I'd just hire oyu instead ;)
[19:30:27] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/Master_Integrator.lyx: include classicladder docs in the integrator manual
[19:30:38] <fenn> JymmmEMC: yep i'd keep ya busy
[19:31:02] <JymmmEMC> fenn: Yeah, probably cleaning my gun and burrying the bodies
[19:32:35] <JymmmEMC> Is there any significance to a dollar-sign trailing on a service name?
[19:32:58] <LawrenceG> pay per view?
[19:33:09] <JymmmEMC> lol, tha'ts pretty good
[19:40:27] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/Submakefile: add ladder docs
[19:41:59] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/index.tmpl: add ladder docs
[19:42:41] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/config/.cvsignore: silence
[19:42:45] <LawrenceG> build works yea...
[19:46:26] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/ladder/.cvsignore: silence
[19:49:47] <tomp> a paper on preliminary tuning of servo motors, the 'step response' test to determine the system acceleraton http://gram.eng.uci.edu/~dreinken/MAE106/lab5.pdf
[19:50:44] <fenn> anyone know about this 'autotune' script that's supposedly in cvs?
[19:51:05] <alex_joni> fenn: it's not a script
[19:51:09] <alex_joni> it's another PID component
[19:51:39] <alex_joni> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/src/hal/components/at_pid.c?rev=1.9;content-type=text%2Fplain
[20:18:25] <JymmmEMC> The baby cockatiel isn't feeling too good today, not a good sign at all =(
[20:19:45] <alex_joni> any swedes around?
[20:23:36] <anonimasu> yes
[20:25:01] <alex_joni> hi anders
[20:25:07] <alex_joni> you're a bit too north
[20:25:16] <alex_joni> * alex_joni was wondering about the weather over there
[20:25:27] <anonimasu> probably shitty..
[20:25:31] <anonimasu> it's starting to get cold..
[20:25:43] <alex_joni> we had 27-30 these days
[20:25:45] <alex_joni> nice and sunny
[20:25:57] <anonimasu> we've had more like 8degreed
[20:25:58] <anonimasu> s
[20:27:57] <alex_joni> ouch
[20:29:09] <BigJohnT> Am I really connected to EMC IRC?
[20:29:15] <alex_joni> indeed you are
[20:29:22] <BigJohnT> WOW it works
[20:29:31] <alex_joni> indeed it does
[20:30:18] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: got any emc questions?
[20:30:51] <BigJohnT> First let me say thanks to the EMC community for thier work
[20:31:06] <BigJohnT> I'm building a portable plasma table
[20:31:28] <BigJohnT> I've got Gecko 203v drivers for steppers
[20:31:59] <alex_joni> would it be John Thornton?
[20:32:02] <BigJohnT> what do I need to get inputs back into EMC
[20:32:06] <BigJohnT> yes it is
[20:32:18] <alex_joni> hi .. hope you got my answer about THC
[20:32:35] <BigJohnT> yes I've been looking at the references
[20:32:59] <BigJohnT> seems like all of them use a commerical THC
[20:33:03] <alex_joni> right
[20:33:22] <alex_joni> you can probably do it yourself, but filtering noise & such is not going to be easy
[20:33:30] <BigJohnT> I was looking at using something home made
[20:33:46] <BigJohnT> noise from the voltage signal?
[20:35:01] <BigJohnT> I have a Hypertherm 1250 plasma cutter
[20:35:02] <alex_joni> from the cutting
[20:35:25] <BigJohnT> I have two outputs and one input
[20:35:29] <alex_joni> sounds like a nice plasma.. (kinda smallish for my taste :D)
[20:35:42] <BigJohnT> biggest I could carry LOL
[20:35:48] <alex_joni> what kind of outputs/inputs?
[20:36:14] <BigJohnT> the outputs are arc stable, and arc voltage.
[20:36:19] <BigJohnT> the input is start arc
[20:36:19] <alex_joni> analog?
[20:36:50] <BigJohnT> the voltage is true arc voltage and the arc stable is binary dry contact
[20:37:26] <anonimasu> BigJohnT: yeah, but the height conrtoller isnt..
[20:37:56] <alex_joni> the problem with arc voltage is ignition
[20:38:04] <alex_joni> I suppose it does HF sparking?
[20:38:31] <BigJohnT> I think so
[20:38:51] <alex_joni> the problem with that is that it pulses something like 1-2kV
[20:39:10] <alex_joni> so I'm not sure what the true arc voltage outputs
[20:39:28] <BigJohnT> let me look
[20:39:52] <anonimasu> BigJohnT: you should talk to rugdallur about it
[20:39:56] <anonimasu> (dallur)
[20:39:56] <anonimasu> probably
[20:40:06] <alex_joni> Dallur might be around
[20:40:10] <BigJohnT> ok
[20:40:14] <anonimasu> he tried building/buying/both
[20:40:19] <anonimasu> and two different commercial ones I think
[20:40:29] <alex_joni> BigJohnT: either Dallur or Rugludallur (they both come online from time to time)
[20:40:41] <anonimasu> I ran my plasma without and it worked just fine
[20:40:42] <BigJohnT> ok
[20:41:03] <BigJohnT> I plan on running it without to start
[20:41:28] <BigJohnT> this is a small one with 48" x 24" inch
[20:43:16] <BigJohnT> thanks gotta go for a bit
[21:03:00] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:38:25] <dmess> hi all... who would know how to compile a peeload of fortran source???
[22:22:48] <toast> how do you pick a tattoo artist
[22:23:30] <Ziegler> watch your friend get one first
[22:23:37] <Ziegler> :-P
[22:27:17] <cradek> toast: ask someone with plenty of tattoos.
[22:27:30] <cradek> someone who looks healthy :-)
[22:28:24] <Ziegler> hehe
[22:29:21] <cradek> I bought a low-dollar edge finder from enco - it's the sorriest excuse for an edge finder I can imagine
[22:29:53] <cradek> the two parts slide against each other ok, but they're not even close to parallel
[22:30:22] <cradek> if I roll it on the surface plate, the end moves around and there are big triangles of light showing under it
[22:34:14] <cradek> hmm, name brand are only $12 - that was sure false economy
[22:35:39] <cradek> has anyone used the clicking kind?
[22:52:37] <anonimasu> I use a electric one
[22:55:01] <cradek> do you like it?
[22:55:21] <cradek> I thought about trying one, but the offset wiggling kind work very well
[22:58:31] <dmess> i use a guage blonk and indicator .0001 every time
[22:59:33] <cradek> you mean something like read, turn the spindle 180, read gauge block, split the difference?
[23:00:38] <dmess> yes precicely
[23:01:10] <dmess> ive learned to dived by 2 in my head to 7 decimal places..
[23:01:11] <cradek> I think for me that would be more error-prone
[23:02:00] <dmess> do you know how many times ive seen parts out by 0.100" precicly
[23:02:09] <cradek> ha
[23:02:35] <dmess> too many hundreds
[23:02:40] <cradek> I always lift up, then go to 0 and sanity-check it, since I make that mistake too
[23:03:10] <dmess> i stopped using an edgefinder yrs ago
[23:03:19] <cradek> fortunately .1 or .25 is very easy to see
[23:04:44] <dmess> but ppl miss it tooooo often.. trust me.. ive been in hundreds of shops.. done thousands of setups.. and seen scrap to high heaven
[23:05:06] <dmess> none mine thankfully
[23:07:10] <dmess> use indicator.. swap for c/drill.. dbl chk.. rock and roll..
[23:07:36] <dmess> note to self... use finishing eye
[23:09:08] <dmess> assembler brings back flasshbacks to the Commodore "SUPER-PET"
[23:09:35] <dmess> why does this still look familiar.... ahhh im losing it
[23:25:06] <renesis> once you get over conditionals without using the words 'if', 'else', 'while', 'for', asm isnt so bad
[23:28:31] <anonimasu> yes
[23:28:54] <anonimasu> it works great..
[23:29:53] <anonimasu> only bad thing is when you have painted/nonconductive surfaces
[23:30:02] <renesis> and whats wrong with edge finders?
[23:30:21] <anonimasu> I like my electrical one..
[23:30:22] <anonimasu> it's damn fast..
[23:30:35] <renesis> its still offset, tho, no?
[23:30:47] <anonimasu> offset?
[23:30:52] <anonimasu> the ball at the end are 10mm..
[23:30:58] <renesis> and you can see when theyre lines up with all the ones ive used
[23:31:10] <anonimasu> jog until it lits up..
[23:31:13] <renesis> okay so its 5mm offset
[23:31:19] <anonimasu> then you have your centre..
[23:31:38] <anonimasu> I centre on holes all the time with it..
[23:31:48] <anonimasu> for reaming and stuff..
[23:32:14] <anonimasu> jog to one side zero the machine jog to the other one.. and divide the distance by 2
[23:32:18] <anonimasu> then repeat for y..
[23:32:45] <anonimasu> well, if I need very very much precision I usually do it twice..
[23:33:16] <anonimasu> though I'm going to buy a probe.
[23:35:44] <dmess> i'd be faster on any hole
[23:35:42] <dmess> and as fast on any edge... experience
[23:35:42] <dmess> probes are nice if maintained..
[23:36:32] <dmess> if 1 guy bonks it its yeuchered
[23:37:38] <anonimasu> dmess: _any_ edge takes about 3 seconds..
[23:37:46] <dmess> renesis: are you on #cam??
[23:38:13] <dmess> need your help pls??
[23:42:25] <renesis> hmm?
[23:44:27] <dmess> i take 5 to be sure..