#emc | Logs for 2007-09-29

[00:06:37] <dmess> sounds retarded
[00:26:22] <JymmmEMC> The sad thing is SOMEONE WILL PAY THAT amount too
[00:26:42] <SWPadnos> and pretty soon the prices will go up at the House of Prime Rib!
[00:26:51] <SWPadnos> which would really suck
[00:28:05] <JymmmEMC> heh
[00:29:37] <fenn> a veritable national crisis
[00:29:52] <SWPadnos> oh yes, indubitablibibibly
[00:30:03] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: But would that stop you from going?
[00:30:06] <SWPadnos> err - no
[00:30:19] <SWPadnos> how could you say such a thing?
[00:32:18] <fenn> btw jymmm when the ssh host fingerprint changes, it tells you what line to delete in known_hosts
[00:32:23] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Click on FLIGHT DIRECTIONS http://harrisranch.com/gettinghere.php
[00:33:16] <JymmmEMC> fenn: thanks, found that out yesterday =)
[00:33:35] <SWPadnos> funny
[00:33:47] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: You gotta love a place with it's own landing strip and airport
[00:33:48] <SWPadnos> Surface: Asphalt, in fair condition
[00:34:01] <SWPadnos> like I'm gonna land my Lear jet on that! geez
[00:34:26] <SWPadnos> that's a perfect place for a Moller Air Car
[00:34:33] <fenn> and there is a way to turn on hostname/ip in the file, i just dont know how
[00:34:43] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: it's 2820 ft long....what ya complaining about
[00:35:03] <SWPadnos> in paranoid mode, it still checks the fingerprint, to avoid man-in-the-middle attacks
[00:35:07] <SWPadnos> or spoofing or somethign
[00:35:18] <JymmmEMC> which is a good ting
[00:35:19] <JymmmEMC> thing
[00:35:20] <fenn> i mean writing the host/ip next to the key
[00:35:23] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, the runway is only in fair condition - I wouldn't want to damage theose expensive shocks
[00:35:28] <fenn> so you know which line to delete :)
[00:35:30] <SWPadnos> ah
[00:35:48] <SWPadnos> I know it used to do that in plain text, I assumed it was an update that stopped that practice
[00:35:53] <fenn> SWPadnos: you need an "all terrain" lear jet
[00:36:02] <JymmmEMC> lol @ fenn
[00:36:02] <SWPadnos> a HUMMER JET!
[00:36:10] <fenn> they really ought to make hovercraft airplanes
[00:36:18] <fenn> it makes so much sense
[00:36:31] <JymmmEMC> fenn: YOU CANT AFFORD IT!
[00:36:32] <ds2> harriers for civillian use?
[00:36:32] <SWPadnos> except that it's really really hard to do that
[00:36:48] <fenn> not harriers, ground effect
[00:36:52] <SWPadnos> but that's the idea of the Moller car - if they ever get it working well enough to sell
[00:36:59] <ds2> sand blast all the cattle during every landing ;)
[00:37:00] <JymmmEMC> 10 months of collecting 2l bottles.... $20
[00:37:14] <fenn> moller car doesnt even use ducts does it?
[00:37:22] <SWPadnos> ground effect only works when you're moving, unless you're thinking that airplanes should have those big skirts like hovercraft
[00:37:33] <SWPadnos> it uses pivoting nacelles
[00:37:35] <fenn> yes, airplanes should have those big skirts like hovercraft
[00:37:40] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: only for the female planes
[00:37:54] <JymmmEMC> and they should be mini skirts
[00:38:07] <fenn> right...
[00:38:32] <skunkworks> I don't know if something with thate much fuel should have a mini skirt
[00:42:35] <fenn> i'd expect the moller car to have the same problem as helicopters, where if you stop in one place you get a rotating donut of air around you and you just fall
[01:15:44] <Ziegler> hey... any power engineers floating around... or guys used to running single phase 240?
[01:15:55] <SWPadnos> ask away
[01:16:00] <SWPadnos> jmkasunich may answer ;)
[01:16:26] <SWPadnos> unless you're asking about a rotary phase converter, in which case I may be able to help
[01:16:42] <Ziegler> I have a 240 VAC 30 Amp breaker... I want to run a line (about 60 feet) to my milling machine. Will 10 AWG do?
[01:17:07] <SWPadnos> http://xtronics.com/reference/wire_gauge-ampacity.htm
[01:17:14] <Ziegler> looking...
[01:17:36] <SWPadnos> I'd probably use 8 for that, maybe 6 (but I tend to overkill stuff)
[01:19:02] <SWPadnos> yeah - 10ga is 1.215 mohms/foot, so 120 feet (round trip length) is 0.145 ohms
[01:19:02] <Ziegler> Jeez!
[01:19:24] <Ziegler> #6?
[01:19:38] <skunkworks> I would make my own 9ga. I over-do but also make more work for my self.
[01:19:38] <SWPadnos> .0145*30A (rated current) = 4.374 V, so it's probably fine
[01:19:42] <SWPadnos> well, I think I'd use #8
[01:20:03] <Ziegler> Think thats something they carry at the local home store?
[01:20:10] <SWPadnos> home depot has both
[01:20:11] <Ziegler> ah
[01:20:12] <Ziegler> cool
[01:20:20] <Ziegler> expensive?
[01:20:22] <skunkworks> are you running conduit?
[01:20:25] <SWPadnos> remember - 3 wires
[01:20:24] <SWPadnos> yes :)
[01:20:55] <skunkworks> I would guess you can't use aluminum either (don't know where you are)
[01:21:00] <SWPadnos> I did the same thing actually, and I had to go almost as far as possible in my 30x50 footprint house
[01:21:05] <SWPadnos> no way - copper only
[01:21:32] <SWPadnos> aluminum is a crappy conductor - it's just light and cheap, that's why they use it
[01:21:40] <Ziegler> Ill be using copper
[01:21:46] <Ziegler> no conduit
[01:21:50] <Ziegler> indoors
[01:21:56] <Ziegler> in a crawl space
[01:22:37] <Ziegler> yeah... I lucked out...
[01:23:21] <SWPadnos> I had to run mine from the panel in one corner of the house, down a few feet, across the front wall (25 feet), up to the ceiling (~6 feet), back to the rear wall (25 feet), across half the garage (14 feet) and then down to the box (2 feet)
[01:23:24] <Ziegler> I have 100 AMP service... but its a tiny box, and it is completely full. The lucky part... there was a 240 30 amp empty just waiting to be used.
[01:23:37] <SWPadnos> nice - maybe there used to be electric heat?
[01:23:44] <Ziegler> Sound similar to my situation SWPadnos
[01:24:00] <SWPadnos> this house used to have electric heat, so there's a 240/200A service
[01:24:28] <SWPadnos> I should have run 6 ga, but I used 8, and there's no way I'm ripping out the wall to replace it :)
[01:24:40] <SWPadnos> (I'll get a shope where there's 3-phase first)
[01:24:42] <SWPadnos> shop
[01:24:53] <Ziegler> hehe... nope... it was to an old plug that is now sitting under a sink. (previous owner remodeled basement... and covered it up. I believe it is where the dryer sat
[01:25:04] <SWPadnos> ah
[01:25:11] <a-l-p-h-a> hey peeps.
[01:25:21] <SWPadnos> oops - that's 30 feet from front to back wall
[01:25:30] <Ziegler> some home depot has 6 AWG 3 wire too
[01:25:39] <SWPadnos> yep
[01:25:51] <SWPadnos> they go to 0 or 00 for stoves and hot tubs
[01:25:56] <Ziegler> whats that run a foot... approximately
[01:26:10] <SWPadnos> I think it was - err - between $1 and $10
[01:26:14] <SWPadnos> (I don't remember :) )
[01:26:21] <Ziegler> LOL
[01:26:32] <SWPadnos> maybe $1.60 or something, but it could have been $2.60
[01:26:33] <Ziegler> I hope its closer to $1
[01:26:38] <Ziegler> thats not bad
[01:26:42] <jlmjvm> Ziegler:what kinda machine you do you have?
[01:26:43] <ds2> 0.145 @ 30A dissipiates almost 130W!
[01:27:13] <SWPadnos> luckily it's spread over 60 feet - it's 2W per foot
[01:27:21] <Ziegler> I purchase a small 750 lbs milling machine from a guy who stuck 3 900 oz-in steppers on it and gecko drivers
[01:27:33] <SWPadnos> (I did that calc when I was thinking about my wires)
[01:27:33] <ds2> but from a electric bill standpoint...
[01:27:56] <SWPadnos> from an electric bill standpoint, if you're pulling 240/30A for long, you're not going to care about the lost 130W
[01:28:11] <jlmjvm> what kinda spindle motor?
[01:28:13] <ds2> fair enough
[01:28:19] <Ziegler> 2 hp
[01:28:33] <ds2> 2W per foot is a lot of nightlights though
[01:28:37] <Ziegler> peak for the motor is about 9 amps...
[01:28:54] <Ziegler> peak for the 800 Watt power supply is also around 9 amps
[01:29:13] <ds2> is that 9A from the name plate?
[01:29:18] <Ziegler> yeah
[01:29:23] <SWPadnos> ds2, I agree - that's why I used 8ga instead of 10ga
[01:29:48] <Ziegler> I assumed 20 AMP breaker was cutting it too close... and I already had the 30 amp breaker in
[01:30:12] <ds2> are you hard wiring in the machine?
[01:30:27] <ds2> or using something like an L6-30
[01:30:57] <Ziegler> I dunno what l6-30 is... but I plan to install a couple receptacles and plug it in.
[01:31:31] <Ziegler> googleing
[01:31:38] <ds2> twist lock connector
[01:31:50] <Ziegler> ah... yeah thats what I am doing
[01:32:04] <Ziegler> 3 prong
[01:32:33] <Ziegler> I need to put in at least two
[01:32:36] <Ziegler> maybe 3
[01:33:42] <Ziegler> http://www.bomara.com/Best/images/pdu-0008.jpg
[01:33:51] <Ziegler> something like that would be convenient
[01:34:03] <ds2> but that means you run 4 wires
[01:34:32] <Ziegler> it does?
[01:34:43] <Ziegler> oops
[01:34:45] <Ziegler> wrong pic
[01:34:45] <ds2> yeah, pulling 110 off a 240 circuit requires a neutral
[01:34:51] <ds2> H H N G
[01:35:20] <Ziegler> http://www.bomara.com/Best/images/pdu-0012.jpg <-- how is that done?
[01:35:59] <ds2> didn't you say you it was a 240V circuit?
[01:36:11] <ds2> that picture looks like 110 outlets
[01:36:38] <skunkworks> hot hot neutral ground. I would assume you should be able to get 8ga in something like what you would run to a cook stove.
[01:36:47] <Ziegler> yeah but it looks like it plugs into a 240 receptacle...
[01:37:07] <ds2> they make L5-20's etc that look just like that but are for 110V
[01:37:31] <ds2> locking connectors are required, IIRC, for overhead drops
[01:37:34] <Ziegler> oh
[01:37:47] <ds2> look up L5-20 or L5-30 and note the specs
[01:38:21] <Ziegler> alright so... if I want 120 and 240... I need 4 wire
[01:38:55] <ds2> *nod*
[01:39:06] <fenn> aluminum is not a crappy conductor, the problem is stupid electricians and fretting due to thermal expansion
[01:39:14] <ds2> 120 is H/N/G; 240 is H/H/G
[01:39:42] <ds2> fenn: doesn't the pesky oxygen stuff have something to do with that too?
[01:39:43] <Ziegler> so like someone said bfore... I want h h n g
[01:40:19] <fenn> not really, you can plate the wire with metal that doesnt oxidize
[01:40:28] <SWPadnos> aluminum is twice as good a cunductor as copper - by weight
[01:40:35] <Ziegler> I know our power engineers at work choose to use aluminum from time to time
[01:40:42] <SWPadnos> but it's 1/3 the density, so copper is still 50% better by volume
[01:40:56] <fenn> yep but who cares about volume in electrical wiring
[01:40:57] <Ziegler> cant remeber why
[01:41:09] <SWPadnos> it depends on whether you're drilling holes in concrete, I guess
[01:41:21] <ds2> always thought that layer of ruby/saphire on top of it contributes to the problem... more it gets worked loose, the more oxide and more heat which forms positive feedback loop
[01:41:22] <fenn> who drills holes for wiring??
[01:41:28] <Ziegler> fenn... aluminum always oxidizes
[01:41:40] <SWPadnos> people who are adding wires to existing structures do that
[01:41:59] <SWPadnos> there is special contact lubricant for aluminum
[01:42:13] <ds2> that's the alox stuff right?
[01:42:23] <skunkworks> my last house - had al coming into the box.
[01:42:32] <fenn> i figure you can solder the end with zinc if it's really a problem
[01:42:36] <SWPadnos> it's got a pilish in it - you dab some on, lightly tighten the screw, then move it around a bit to sand off the oxide layer -then tighten the sxcrew
[01:42:39] <SWPadnos> polish
[01:43:18] <SWPadnos> apparently, Al is used almost exclusively for power transmission now - it's lighter and cheaper than copper
[01:43:21] <SWPadnos> http://www.key-to-metals.com/Article116.htm
[01:43:22] <ds2> there is always gold for good conductors =)
[01:43:30] <fenn> all this screw holding down wiring stuff seems so 1800's
[01:43:42] <Ziegler> ah right... forget the Cu and Al... im getting out the Ag
[01:43:47] <Ziegler> Au?
[01:43:50] <fenn> and flat-head screws! stop the insanity!
[01:43:51] <SWPadnos> it's still the best way - screws and crimps are better tahn solder in the long run
[01:43:51] <ds2> fenn: what's the alternative
[01:44:00] <ds2> Au and Ag are both great conductors
[01:44:08] <skunkworks> allen head
[01:44:14] <fenn> silver is the best i think
[01:44:24] <SWPadnos> silver is actually a little better than gold, but it tarnishes
[01:44:32] <ds2> security, 5 star torx bits!
[01:44:39] <ds2> keep out those pesky DIYers
[01:44:48] <SWPadnos> #0 tri-point!
[01:44:56] <fenn> um, loctite red?
[01:45:20] <ds2> isn't loctite red a really bad idea
[01:45:37] <ds2> when it fails it gets hot but loctite fails with heat...
[01:45:39] <SWPadnos> take the blue loctite
[01:45:45] <skunkworks> tighten screw. wiggle cable. repeat X5
[01:45:58] <fenn> for keeping out the pesky DIYers
[01:46:00] <skunkworks> for stranded
[01:46:06] <ds2> oh
[01:46:33] <Roguish> evening all. hey is there a way to get timed out pastbin images? there are pastebin links on the pyVCP wiki page that are long timed out.
[01:46:51] <ds2> new instructions for DIYers - insert penny in fuse box, stick screw driver outlet and briefly short them together til the screw loosens up ;)
[01:47:09] <Roguish> probably elsewhere as well.
[01:47:10] <SWPadnos> "Damage-It-Yourselfers"
[01:47:15] <fenn> ds2: use a carbon rod for maximum effect
[01:47:26] <SWPadnos> Roguish, you mean imagebin? I don't know
[01:47:32] <Roguish> ok.
[01:47:48] <SWPadnos> I know pastebin has an expiry setting when you post things, dunno about imnagebin
[01:47:51] <Ziegler> ahh.... now that I will have 240 out to my garage... I can build that min arc furnace
[01:47:53] <Roguish> no, pastebin.
[01:48:05] <jmkasunich_> pastebin doesn't do images
[01:48:10] <Roguish> check it out: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?PyVCP
[01:48:13] <SWPadnos> pastebin doesn't do images
[01:48:15] <SWPadnos> right
[01:48:20] <Roguish> ok, then text.
[01:48:26] <Roguish> gone none the less.
[01:48:42] <jmkasunich_> pastebin defaults to "keep forever", so whoever posted it must have set it to expire
[01:48:49] <SWPadnos> yep. gone, unless someone has the original text
[01:48:54] <jmkasunich_> as far as I know, once its gone its gone
[01:49:06] <Roguish> into the bit bin forever?
[01:49:17] <SWPadnos> seems likely
[01:49:58] <fenn> there's a lot of crap on that page
[01:50:07] <SWPadnos> they seem to have archives - I'm not sure what they are
[01:51:05] <Roguish> i am looking for a simple example of putting a light or 2 on my axis screen.
[01:51:23] <Roguish> switched by a hal pin.
[01:51:53] <Roguish> gotta have 2 files, right? one py and one html ? right?
[01:52:11] <fenn> you need an xml file
[01:52:23] <SWPadnos> no .py I think
[01:52:37] <Roguish> and call to them in the .ini file.
[01:52:56] <fenn> look at the pyvcp stuff in sim/
[01:53:22] <Ziegler> thanks for the help gents
[01:54:39] <fenn> sim/lathe.ini actually uses pyvcp to draw the spindle speed bar
[01:55:41] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/719222
[01:56:25] <jlmjvm> heres a rough draft of what i was gonna put on the wiki if anybody wants to look it over
[01:56:55] <fenn> needs more whitespace :)
[01:57:01] <fenn> paragraphs and stuff
[01:57:43] <jlmjvm> obviously rougher than i thought
[01:59:29] <Ziegler> Looks like all of the 6/3 Copper had H H N and a ground
[02:01:04] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/719228
[02:16:31] <Roguish> axis is a little sluggish on remote desktop.
[02:24:27] <skyfox00> who was it that just got some gecko motor drivers?
[02:25:39] <jlmjvm> what kind stepper or servo,i recently got a set of each
[02:26:27] <skyfox00> I was talking to someone the other day who had just got some gecko servo drives to put on a Sieg X3....(I think)
[02:26:48] <Ziegler> me
[02:26:57] <Ziegler> not me
[02:27:01] <Ziegler> sorry
[02:27:10] <jlmjvm> g203v and g320 is what i have
[02:27:42] <skyfox00> I'll look in the log...
[02:30:17] <skyfox00> ok, it was Skullworks-PGAB...
[02:30:24] <skyfox00> Skullworks-PGAB: you here?
[02:34:47] <Ziegler> here are some pics of my machine: http://images.myonlinesite.com/cnc_mill/
[02:36:28] <skyfox00> slick.
[02:37:05] <jlmjvm> cool
[02:38:06] <Ziegler> thanks
[02:39:05] <jlmjvm> i cant believe its that heavy,must be pretty sturdy
[02:39:55] <jlmjvm> over 700 lbs
[02:40:03] <Ziegler> we shall see... I may need to replace the acme screws with some ball screws
[02:40:23] <Ziegler> but yeah... its over 700 lbs
[02:40:47] <jlmjvm> homeshopcnc has some rolled ballscrews
[02:41:01] <skyfox00> heh, I was just looking at those.
[02:41:30] <Ziegler> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=33686
[02:41:39] <Ziegler> thats the mill
[02:41:53] <jlmjvm> ive seen several of those mills,most were made by rong fu,but never realized they were that heavy
[02:45:34] <SWPadnos> 1 cubic foot of steel weighs close to 700 pounds
[02:45:45] <SWPadnos> things don't beed to be big to be heavy
[02:45:49] <SWPadnos> need
[02:46:30] <skyfox00> Anyone know anything about the Enco 9x42 step pully knee mills?(#100-1527)
[02:49:08] <fenn> Ziegler: what happened to your foundry?
[02:49:22] <Ziegler> which one?
[02:49:30] <fenn> http://images.myonlinesite.com/foundryOnDrugs.jpg
[02:50:28] <Ziegler> ah... haha... not mine.. (at least not the melted one) I was having a debate with a guy on the use of refractory materials.... he insisted portland cement would hold up... I asked him to prove me wrong... that was the result
[02:51:08] <Ziegler> Portland cement breaks down at fairly low temps... and then acts as a great flux at bronze temps
[02:52:02] <Ziegler> the other one is just fire clay and sand
[02:52:24] <Ziegler> even that one is starting to look a bit rough... but mostly because I dropped it when I was moving it.
[02:53:47] <fenn> i put a clay-rich layer of icing on top, and borax makes a good glaze
[02:54:15] <fenn> you can use perlite then, since the clay layer protects it somewhat
[02:56:01] <fenn> man, hobbycnc is $350 now?
[02:56:03] <Ziegler> yeah... that melted furnace had perlite mixed through the matrix. I hot face backed with perlite is the better way to go.
[02:56:06] <fenn> and they still make you solder it together!
[02:56:24] <Ziegler> lol... it was a 4 axis kit with steppers and power supply
[02:56:38] <fenn> you could have the board made and assembled for that price :)
[02:57:53] <Ziegler> looking back I probably would have gone wiht xylotec if I did it again
[02:58:07] <skyfox00> I have some eagle experience if anyone needs help....(for what ever its worth)
[02:58:33] <Ziegler> eagle?
[02:59:14] <skyfox00> um, Eagle board designe software...
[02:59:16] <fenn> a crappy freeware pcb/schematic program
[02:59:28] <Ziegler> ah
[02:59:29] <skyfox00> once you learn to use it, its not so bad...
[02:59:54] <fenn> actually, its not freeware, it just has a free demo
[03:00:05] <fenn> i really dont get why everyone uses it
[03:00:07] <skyfox00> I drew up an entire pluto_servo compatable power board in it.(fully buffered inputs, etc)
[03:00:39] <skyfox00> its the best non-cost(Eagle Lite) PCB program out there...
[03:00:55] <fenn> i bet you've never even tried kicad or gEDA
[03:01:16] <skyfox00> Eagle Lite is for non comersal use only/educational, etc...
[03:02:13] <fenn> is that supposed to make me want to use it?
[03:02:45] <skyfox00> I have geda right now, but it seems somwhat lacking iirc
[03:03:08] <fenn> geda schematic capture kinda sucks, but pcb is solid
[03:03:13] <fenn> and kicad is the other way around
[03:03:31] <skyfox00> where do you get librarys for pcb ?
[03:03:29] <fenn> i bet you can export a netlist from kicad to pcb but i havent tried
[03:04:10] <fenn> i havent done anything serious in pcb
[03:05:31] <Ziegler> ds2: you still around?
[03:05:46] <skyfox00> the sparkfun people use Eagle also...
[03:05:49] <fenn> would be very surprised if there werent scripts to convert at least one commercial cad format to pcb
[03:06:11] <Ziegler> with HHNG wires....
[03:06:17] <skyfox00> would said commercial cad library be free?
[03:06:27] <Ziegler> dont both N and G go to the ground bar?
[03:06:46] <fenn> skyfox00: usually when you want a library part you download it from the manufacturer of the chip
[03:07:13] <skyfox00> I guess I'm cheap... ;)
[03:07:17] <fenn> eagle's libraries are so bloated it's impossible to find anything
[03:07:51] <skunkworks> * skunkworks thought it was just him
[03:08:18] <SWPadnos> heh - you should try searching the Altium libraries sometime
[03:08:45] <SWPadnos> just finding the library that contains the kind of part is a hard job
[03:09:26] <fenn> did protel turn into altium?
[03:09:27] <skyfox00> well, I draw up stuff in Eagle for fun, but if someone needs GPL Eagle work done, I might be able to contribute...
[03:09:30] <SWPadnos> yes
[03:09:42] <SWPadnos> protel and p-cad are both altium
[03:10:17] <fenn> skyfox00: how are you going to make GPL circuits with a program that's limited to non-commercial use?
[03:11:23] <skyfox00> let me rephrase that, GPL like v. non free.... thats all I ment.
[03:11:55] <cradek> fenn: arguably, the use of the program (skyfox making and giving away a board layout) is not commercial
[03:11:57] <fenn> well at least it got you thinking
[03:12:06] <cradek> (he'd have to read the agreement carefully)
[03:12:15] <cradek> it's a very interesting question
[03:12:18] <fenn> cradek: so if i make a board for someone and then they sell it, that's hunky-dory?
[03:12:35] <fenn> and if said recipient happens to be a company i work for?
[03:13:01] <fenn> eagle is not free, dont kid yourself
[03:13:02] <SWPadnos> it may not be, but it's the person that downloads your board and uses eagle for commercial uses that's violating the eagle license
[03:13:04] <cradek> right, this is why "non commercial use" licenses generally suck
[03:13:23] <cradek> * cradek points at SWPadnos
[03:13:30] <SWPadnos> not the person that makes a design for non-commercial use and then shares it with others
[03:13:46] <cradek> violating the eagle license ... which they didn't agree to
[03:13:47] <fenn> what if they just download a .pdf or gerbers and dont use eagle at all?
[03:14:00] <SWPadnos> that should be fine
[03:14:07] <SWPadnos> I haven't read the eagle license, so I don't know though
[03:14:13] <cradek> right
[03:14:16] <cradek> this is silly
[03:14:26] <fenn> of course its silly
[03:14:39] <fenn> doesnt mean you wont get sued though
[03:15:37] <fenn> for example if eagle gets bought out and the new management has an 'agressive policy of defending its rights'
[03:16:13] <cradek> go ahead and make the case that nobody should use any non-free software
[03:16:35] <cradek> I sympathize, fwiw
[03:16:53] <SWPadnos> their license looks pretty reasonable, though they do reserve the right to change or revoke it at any time (as many entities do)
[03:17:05] <fenn> if everyone didn't already use eagle, there'd be much less of an incentive to use it
[03:17:25] <SWPadnos> what does non-profit mean: "If you earn money by using the Freeware version of EAGLE Light, you have to register it."
[03:17:47] <SWPadnos> that is their entire definition
[03:18:57] <SWPadnos> it would be a specious argument for you to get the freeware version, make some PCBs, export to gerber, then post the files under the GPL on your internal company network and claim that you didn't use Eagle for "profit"
[03:19:22] <skyfox00> I think an Eagle Lite board can be gpl, becaus if someone uses it and makes any money, they have to pay the licence fee, regardless of who created the board.(I think)
[03:19:37] <Ziegler> SWPadnos: what does the 8/3 have 4 wires in it?!?
[03:19:52] <SWPadnos> line, line, neutral, ground
[03:20:06] <Ziegler> right... what do I do with the neutral?
[03:21:02] <SWPadnos> hook it to ground ;)
[03:21:05] <skunkworks> normally - netrual and ground are connected togather in the breaker box. (if it is your main breaker box of the building)
[03:21:32] <skunkworks> some breaker boxes have them separated but 'bonded' togather at one point.
[03:21:36] <Ziegler> but on the receptacle end just hook them together there too?
[03:21:38] <SWPadnos> the neutral is the ground for the circuit. the ground wire is there for safety, and to detect ground faults
[03:21:55] <cradek> Ziegler: are you sure you want to do this wiring yourself...?
[03:22:07] <skunkworks> heh - good point.
[03:22:11] <SWPadnos> err - check with an electrician. I'm not comfortable giving you directions on this
[03:22:16] <cradek> right
[03:22:35] <Ziegler> is the ground smaller gage or something. cradek... yeah thanks for asking I do appreciate it. I feel comfortable doing it, but never done 240 before
[03:22:41] <SWPadnos> (I did mine myself, but I don't remember exactly whet I did)
[03:22:44] <skunkworks> today - skunkworks was brought to you by some random guy on the internet.
[03:23:02] <SWPadnos> today, smokeworks was brought to you by skunkworks
[03:23:02] <cradek> I didn't read back to see what you're doing, but whatever it is, please be safe
[03:23:14] <fenn> skunkworks: some random guy at str-bb-cable-south-3-7.dsl.airstreamcomm.net
[03:23:42] <skunkworks> I broke into this guys house and am using his internet ;(
[03:23:44] <Ziegler> cradek: im taking a 10 gage or larger (probably 8) to my garage 60 foot away at 30 amps
[03:23:48] <skunkworks> I mean ;)
[03:24:32] <fenn> when i build my space colony we'll have a strict policy of NO LAWYERS
[03:24:49] <fenn> trial by ad-hocracy
[03:25:00] <cradek> ha
[03:25:25] <Ziegler> I was fine until they threw the neutral at me... then I needed to make sure. But I promise you guys ill talk to some of my EE buddies tomarrow before I do anything
[03:26:03] <cradek> don't forget your building permit and inspection like we all dutifully get
[03:26:11] <skunkworks> right - right
[03:26:24] <cradek> * cradek whistles
[03:26:50] <fenn> what counts as building and what is simply 'wiring up the air conditioner' or whatever
[03:26:55] <Ziegler> I actually plan to do it all according to code... which is why I wanted to know what to do with the N
[03:27:15] <cradek> fenn: I think you actually need a building permit here (NE) to put in a ceiling fan
[03:27:26] <Ziegler> yuck
[03:28:09] <Ziegler> I suppose it makes it nice for people to move into a new hous
[03:28:17] <Ziegler> err... a previously lived in house
[03:28:34] <Ziegler> I spent a month correcting the wiring in my house
[03:29:10] <cradek> an electrician friend ran into a circuit that went out one breaker, around to a bunch of outlets, and then into another breaker
[03:29:22] <Ziegler> one plug was wired across a light switch... so when I plugged in a vac... the exhaust fan in the bathroom turned on
[03:29:36] <cradek> Ziegler: haha
[03:29:46] <cradek> that's a new one
[03:29:52] <Ziegler> I had hired a contractor to do some work also...
[03:30:00] <Ziegler> he wired my gfci's all wrong
[03:30:14] <Ziegler> think he swtiched N and G
[03:30:27] <Ziegler> or it might have been H and G
[03:30:38] <fenn> you mean you didnt want a hfci?
[03:30:54] <Ziegler> anyway... they didnt work with ground fault tester
[03:32:25] <skyfox00> well, have funn and dont let any magic smoke out of any wires...(cya)
[03:38:57] <Ziegler> http://www.nojolt.com/basic-220-circuits.shtml << duh that purple FAQ box says it all
[03:42:26] <fenn> In the long run, making programs free is a step toward the post-scarcity world, where nobody will have to work very hard just to make a living. People will be free to devote themselves to activities that are fun, such as programming, after spending the necessary ten hours a week on required tasks such as legislation, family counseling, robot repair and asteroid prospecting. There will be no need to be able to make a living from programmin
[03:43:27] <fenn> g.
[03:43:39] <cradek> thanks rms
[03:44:03] <fenn> i'm reading about why the gpl is bad
[03:44:20] <cradek> oh, I couldn't tell from that
[03:44:48] <cradek> sounds more like why lsd is bad
[03:45:04] <Ziegler> LOL
[03:48:16] <fenn> wow i cant understand this whole gpl-considered-harmful stuff
[03:49:16] <fenn> of course you should use it carefully but "bad"?
[03:53:51] <SWPadnos> the GPL3 could be considered bad - are you reading about that?
[03:54:01] <fenn> no
[03:54:01] <SWPadnos> I'm not so sure about GPL2
[03:54:05] <jepler> lolicencing
[03:54:24] <SWPadnos> I know Theo deRaadt has some issues with GPL, though I don't recall the argument
[03:56:16] <fenn> i'm looking at this again: http://freelabs.com/~whitis/opensymbol/ and it links to here eventually http://web.morons.org/feature/rants/gpl-harmful.jsp
[03:57:41] <jepler> that guy is just a moron
[03:58:10] <jepler> the effect he describes is exactly the intent of someone who thoughtfully licenses his code under the GPL in the first place
[03:58:14] <ds2> Ziegler, looking for me?
[03:58:31] <Ziegler> nah ds2 my insanity has been worked out... thanks for checking back with me
[03:58:37] <ds2> 'k
[04:00:59] <Roguish> 'excuse me for a quick question. is there a listing of the vcp widgets? and where might i find that list?
[04:01:38] <jepler> Roguish: there is documentation (http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/hal/vcp/) but only the source code is truly authoritative
[04:02:30] <jepler> if you're working with TRUNK I know there are some new widgets and other changes that are not documented
[04:02:37] <JymmmEMC> Ziegler: you mean you've been certified as nut
[04:02:43] <jepler> 'night all
[04:02:50] <JymmmEMC> Night Jeff
[04:02:50] <Ziegler> im screwed in alright
[04:03:02] <Roguish> bookmarked that. thanks.
[04:03:35] <Roguish> yes, i'm in the trunk and it's a little dark in here
[04:04:16] <fenn> try pressing the 'escape' button
[04:06:07] <JymmmEMC> Roguish: Um, you are in a hatchback, m'kay
[04:07:57] <Roguish> i'm slow, but i'm getting there. got my jog wheel working with cl and hal. now to add a few screen things in hal. i'll be lurking and asking dumb questions for a while.
[04:08:19] <Roguish> i mean in axis. slow. very slow.
[04:09:20] <JymmmEMC> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/09/28/international/i125509D93.DTL&tsp=1
[04:10:33] <fenn> maybe he was trying to build a '51 '52 '53 '54 '55 '56 '57 '58 '59 automobile
[04:11:28] <cradek> hmm, morons.org is fitting for that "article"
[04:11:55] <JymmmEMC> that he stole em? admitted to it? or got caught?
[04:12:16] <cradek> I can't use YOUR code however I want! that means your virus steals my intellectual property!
[04:13:01] <cradek> hmm, what a strange thing to steal and resell
[04:13:30] <JymmmEMC> musta been some fance screws
[04:13:33] <JymmmEMC> fancy
[04:13:39] <fenn> 7,000 is a lot of screws
[04:13:51] <fenn> well, so is 1 million
[06:27:37] <The_B> The_B is now known as The_Ball
[07:35:10] <toast> fff
[07:38:00] <fenn> isn't it past your bedtime young man?
[08:37:34] <toast> blam
[08:55:52] <Skullworks-PGAB> Tomorrow I'll be getting up about this time, but tonite I haven't gone to bed yet...
[08:55:56] <alex_joni> g'morning
[08:56:56] <mgouget> hello alex
[08:57:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> So Alex hopes of v2.2 are soon to be in fullness.
[08:58:51] <alex_joni> Skullworks-PGAB: how do you mean that?
[08:59:11] <alex_joni> hi mgouget
[09:00:24] <Skullworks-PGAB> bad "Stranger" phrasing on my part.
[09:01:43] <Skullworks-PGAB> just good to see a feature lock in prep for the new release
[10:06:57] <fenn> is there a way to select 'null' for a channel in halscope? chan off doesn't do what i want
[10:10:17] <alex_joni> hi fenn
[10:14:36] <alex_joni> bbl
[11:06:12] <CIA-8> 03fenn 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/ (scope_files.c scope_horiz.c scope_usr.h): add shiny new log button. sorry the file selection dialog is so gnome-y
[11:22:40] <SWPadnos__> SWPadnos__ is now known as SWPadnos
[13:41:05] <jlmjvm> has anyone ever had a computer that wouldnt let you change the screen resolution,only has 640 x 480 listed?
[13:45:23] <Paragon> Hello All its been a while since I have been here due to commitmants etc etc
[13:45:54] <Paragon> Could someone tell me the root password for EMC Live please
[13:46:24] <jepler> Paragon: to perform activities as root, enter your own password at the "sudo" prompt.
[13:46:41] <jepler> by default it is not possible to log in as root, you always log in as your username
[13:48:02] <Paragon> Hello Jepler Sorry I am after the root password for the live as I am trying to install at it hangs at 'configuring apt' so I need to kill the wget from the ps list but the default ubuntu user does not have permmission.
[13:48:35] <jepler> Use "sudo"
[13:48:39] <jepler> probably it will not prompt for a password at all
[13:48:53] <jepler> "sudo -s" drops you into a shell as root, instead of taking a single command
[13:49:15] <Paragon> OK thanks for that Jepler I give it another try.
[13:55:38] <jlmjvm> jepler:do you have any idea why i only have 1 screen resolution?
[13:56:21] <jlmjvm> is that strictly dependant on the video card?
[13:58:52] <jepler> jlmjvm: these instructions should apply to dapper as well: http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~djm/ubuntu/feisty/#fix-resolution
[13:59:20] <jepler> jlmjvm: by default, ubuntu tries to detect the monitor when X starts; some monitors don't communicate with ubuntu as expected.
[13:59:51] <jepler> I have a kvm and one problem I have is that if the kvm is not displaying the ubuntu machine when it first shows the graphical log in window, I get stuck in 640x480. same if the monitor is not powered on yet.
[14:00:05] <jepler> by specifying the Horiz and Vert limits of the monitor this step is bypassed
[14:01:43] <jlmjvm> i will give this a try
[14:03:27] <jlmjvm> i built the computer here with an old crt monitor,never even checked the resolution,then when i hooked it up to the machine which has a new 17 lcd I only get the 640 x 480 resolution
[14:04:13] <jlmjvm> the bad thing is they like the big icons
[14:05:40] <jlmjvm> but at that resolution both axis and tkemc are bigger than the screen
[14:06:29] <jlmjvm> was wondering if it would help to reload ubuntu with the new monitor attached
[14:07:03] <jlmjvm> but will try the other first
[14:09:49] <jlmjvm> thanks jepler
[15:20:31] <dmess> hi all
[15:57:20] <alex_joni> hi dmess
[17:48:33] <rcsu> hi *
[17:53:07] <alex_joni> hi
[17:56:16] <Roguish> morning all. simple question. i have emc2-trunk running. what command will give me a text file of all the hal pins and signals, etc.......??
[17:56:56] <Roguish> open another console window and pipe ??? to a file?
[17:59:23] <Adam1> well in terminal you could type halcmd show
[18:00:24] <alex_joni> Roguish: halcms show all > file.foo
[18:00:28] <alex_joni> halcmd even
[18:00:50] <alex_joni> but if it's run-in-place, then you need to remember to do "bin/halcmd show .."
[18:01:17] <Roguish> oh!! i'll try that one.
[18:02:21] <Roguish> that got it. thanks.
[18:02:44] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/common/xemc.png: xemc screenshot
[18:04:35] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/common/emc2_introduction.lyx: new xemc screenshot, remove some outdated stuff
[18:05:12] <alex_joni> Roguish: you can filter
[18:05:23] <alex_joni> show has some subtypes
[18:05:50] <alex_joni> try halcmd help show
[18:05:55] <Roguish> actually, i want to see all of them. try my hand at a few screen leds in axis.
[18:06:35] <alex_joni> you can also match names
[18:06:42] <alex_joni> halcmd show all *foo*
[18:06:45] <alex_joni> or similar
[18:08:47] <Roguish> i knew i could get a listing. just forgot about the bin thing for run-in-place.
[18:09:22] <alex_joni> alternatively you can use '. scripts/emc-environment'
[18:09:27] <alex_joni> that sets up the env for you current shell
[18:55:16] <Paragon> Hello All what version / revision of EMC2 is on the live cd?
[19:10:57] <Adam1_> Paragon 2.1.7
[19:13:11] <Paragon> Hello Adam just found it thanks but it shows emc 2.0.5!
[19:13:51] <SWPadnos> get a newer CD :)
[19:14:09] <Paragon> I have got an old version of EMC2 Live has the latest live cd been updated?
[19:14:18] <SWPadnos> if you got it recently from linuxcnc.org and it has 2.0.5, then we definitely want to know about it
[19:14:18] <SWPadnos> yes
[19:14:43] <Paragon> Off to download then :-)
[19:14:51] <SWPadnos> it gets updated most times there's a new release - no sense having people install then need to update immediately
[19:14:54] <SWPadnos> enjoy :)
[19:15:00] <SWPadnos> I'm off to get some food
[19:15:19] <JymmmEMC> SOP
[20:14:46] <cradek> SWPadnos: the CD does not get updated every time there's a new release. People should be able to happily use old CDs for a long time. I specifically don't want people to think they should update EMC versions by downloading 600MB and then reinstalling their OS.
[20:16:43] <CIA-7> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/install/installing_emc2.lyx: updates for 2.2 (MD5SUM still missing for the upcoming liveCD)
[20:16:55] <SWPadnos> cradek, sure - that's why I said it's updated "most times" there's a new release
[20:17:04] <alex_joni> sometimes is more like it
[20:17:08] <SWPadnos> maybe I could have said "sometimes"
[20:17:09] <SWPadnos> right
[20:17:52] <alex_joni> it might get updated sometimes
[20:18:08] <alex_joni> but anyways it's not a way to update an existing system
[20:18:09] <alex_joni> :D
[20:18:22] <SWPadnos> oh, of course not
[20:18:42] <SWPadnos> but when doing an initial install, it makes sense to use a reasonably recent version of the liveCD
[20:18:54] <SWPadnos> and I'd say that a 2.0.5 liveCD isn't reasonably recent ;)
[20:37:12] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: sure, but if he already had the install, then apt-get update is the way to go ;)
[20:37:40] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure the total download is less that way ;)
[20:42:54] <CIA-7> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/ (Master_Developer.lyx Master_Integrator.lyx Master_User.lyx): update copyright notice
[21:08:05] <dmess> hi all.. any one home... have i still git a network??
[21:08:22] <fenn> yep
[21:08:33] <JymmmEMC> NO CARRIER
[21:10:00] <dmess> wow.. plugged in/ got workin' the x10 controller about the same time my ISP hammered a routerinto the ground.... scared me for a bit
[21:10:31] <dmess> should be ok now..
[21:11:28] <Ziegler> SWPadnos cradek 240 is wired up to the machine... everything went smoothly except for a bit of plaster work That I need to take care of at some point
[21:12:14] <Ziegler> (got a bit carried away installing the receptacle box)
[21:12:17] <dmess> cool.. im a newbie..
[21:12:39] <Ziegler> we all are
[21:12:50] <Ziegler> at least i am
[21:13:02] <dmess> using heyu...
[21:13:19] <dmess> how so??
[21:13:32] <Ziegler> ??
[21:14:02] <dmess> so far... misterhouse having issues...
[21:18:36] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: got a sec?
[21:59:07] <fenn> i love how every time i type 'g' into a location bar it locks up the ui for a solid 20 seconds while it retrieves and sorts all the google searches i've ever done
[21:59:22] <fenn> despite me having deleted them recently
[21:59:31] <alex_joni> heh
[22:43:51] <JymmmEMC> fenn: in ff?
[22:44:27] <fenn> konqueror
[22:44:40] <JymmmEMC> ah
[22:45:26] <JymmmEMC> my boxes are just too dated to run kde and be responsive
[22:45:59] <JymmmEMC> I tolerate ubuntu " out of the box"
[22:47:22] <JymmmEMC> Though, I've been pondering of idea of toying with a thin client and/or net boot.
[22:48:00] <alex_joni> xubuntu?
[22:48:10] <JymmmEMC> but I need some 512 dimms
[22:48:28] <JymmmEMC> or 1gb pc100/133
[22:48:57] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: When I last played with xubuntu, it's install was funky and partially broke
[22:49:11] <alex_joni> yucky
[22:49:33] <JymmmEMC> sorry, that was kubuntu, not x... my bad
[22:50:39] <JymmmEMC> I got some dual 1gb boards that can do up to 4gb ram, but I gots no 1gb dimms or I probably would.
[22:51:30] <JymmmEMC> it probably be cheaper just to buy a mac mini and the extra ram.
[22:58:34] <SWPadnos> 1GB dimms are about $25 now - what's your problem? ;)
[23:02:38] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I'll paypal you $200 + shipping for 8 pc100/133 please
[23:31:33] <Ziegler> everything is ready to go on the machine... all setup... all hooked up.... except.... I dont have the proper parallel cable
[23:34:00] <alex_joni> Ziegler: explain
[23:34:28] <Ziegler> I need Male <--> Male cable
[23:34:44] <Ziegler> all I have is a typical printer cable
[23:35:27] <alex_joni> do you have 2?
[23:36:21] <Ziegler> I do... but I am less in the mood to cut one up than I am to drive some place and get one
[23:36:29] <Ziegler> http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/PCB-3/124/SPECIAL_-_PARALLEL_PRINTER_CABLE_.html
[23:36:39] <Ziegler> good though though
[23:36:58] <Ziegler> thought*