#emc | Logs for 2007-09-24

[00:01:46] <tomp> :) "Human Interface Device, i.e., one of those terribly slow things whose data rate is limited by how fast humans can twitch." excerpt from a uk adc using pic with hid desriptors
[00:01:55] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:02:27] <JymmmEMC> tomp: You dont have a dHID? SWPadnos does
[00:02:59] <SWPadnos> Mine's a Humanoid Interface Device though
[00:03:18] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Direct to the spinal column
[00:03:29] <JymmmEMC> ceribal cortex
[00:03:32] <JymmmEMC> (sp)
[00:04:00] <JymmmEMC> Just images the spam, viruses, and trojans! lol
[00:05:50] <JymmmEMC> The ULTIMATE in peer-to-peer computing!
[00:07:39] <Roguish> hey all. little help on hal?
[00:07:56] <JymmmEMC> no
[00:08:12] <JymmmEMC> next question
[00:08:48] <Roguish> i'm trying to follow Anders jog wheel example on his site. his hal file starts by 'loadrt threads name1=tt period1=100000 name2=tt2 period2=1000000000'
[00:09:04] <dmess> any interterrestial communicators... other than mine???
[00:09:30] <Roguish> when i put this in a hal file and call from inside my .ini file i get an error of
[00:09:48] <Roguish> insmod: error inserting '/home/noel/emc2-trunk/rtlib/threads.ko': -1 Operation not permitted
[00:10:29] <Roguish> i've definitely been rtfm'ing for quite a while. just feel really stuck or thick.
[00:10:38] <Roguish> ?????
[00:11:27] <Roguish> any ideas?
[00:17:15] <fenn> that's a really long period isnt it?
[00:17:36] <fenn> 1 second
[00:18:10] <Roguish> don't really know. it's for counting the pulses on a hand turned pulse generator..
[00:18:50] <fenn> also you have to be careful when creating threads, make sure that they're a multiple of the smallest period (fastest thread) and load that thread first
[00:19:30] <Roguish> load which on first? the short or the long?
[00:19:36] <fenn> dmess: like a shortwave radio?
[00:20:49] <fenn> or a tight beam gravity wave transmitter :D
[00:21:50] <fenn> Roguish: what happens if you just open up a halcmd and type those commands?
[00:22:00] <dmess> yeah.. that one... i could use 1
[00:22:08] <Roguish> shortened the period by 00 and same error.
[00:22:32] <SWPadnos> Roguish, have you looked at dmesg?
[00:22:40] <fenn> hey there's a good idea
[00:22:41] <SWPadnos> that's where you find out the real problem loading modules
[00:22:54] <Roguish> what's that command again to see dmesg?
[00:23:01] <fenn> dmesg
[00:23:11] <Roguish> duh.
[00:23:32] <SWPadnos> command duh not found
[00:23:39] <jepler> Roguish: periods over 2^32 nanoseconds (about 4 seconds) aren't supported, and ones over 2^31 nanoseconds (about 2 seconds) may or may not work properly
[00:24:08] <SWPadnos> that was only 9 zeroes, or just under 2^30 ns
[00:24:16] <jepler> oh my mistake
[00:24:16] <Roguish> is there a way to clear the message and get a fresh listing?
[00:24:38] <jepler> sudo dmesg -c
[00:24:45] <jepler> clears what was there, the next dmesg will only show "new" messages
[00:24:55] <SWPadnos> or you can run dmesg | tail -30
[00:25:04] <SWPadnos> to get the last 30 lines
[00:27:15] <Roguish> and i shortened it to 7 zeroes and get the same error.
[00:27:21] <SWPadnos> Roguish, are you running this hal file after loading EMC?
[00:27:38] <Roguish> it is called in the .ini file
[00:27:42] <SWPadnos> ok
[00:28:01] <SWPadnos> is there a line in this file that does "unloadrt threads" before the threads load line you pasted?
[00:28:13] <Roguish> no
[00:28:17] <SWPadnos> add one :)
[00:28:30] <jepler> SWPadnos: threads is not used in the sample configurations; they all use the threads created by motion
[00:28:40] <SWPadnos> hmmm. good point
[00:29:02] <SWPadnos> Roguish, what's your BASE_PERIOD?
[00:29:06] <jepler> but I am sure that dmesg does have the ansewr
[00:29:07] <jepler> answer
[00:29:18] <SWPadnos> almost certainly
[00:29:31] <Roguish> baseperiod 50000
[00:29:41] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[00:30:01] <fenn> Roguish: did dmesg say anything?
[00:30:09] <SWPadnos> is this a servo machine or a stepper machine?
[00:30:14] <Roguish> sure, about 19 pages worth
[00:30:25] <Roguish> m5i20 with real servos.
[00:30:29] <fenn> would you put that up on pastebin.ca or somewhere?
[00:30:31] <SWPadnos> pastebin the output of `dmesg | tail -30`
[00:30:52] <SWPadnos> ok, are you sure the BASE_PERIOD is 50000 and not 500000 ?
[00:31:00] <jepler> halcmd: loadrt threads name1=tt period1=100000 name2=tt2 period2=1000000000
[00:31:00] <jepler> halcmd: show thread
[00:31:00] <jepler> Realtime Threads:
[00:31:00] <jepler> Period FP Name ( Time, Max-Time )
[00:31:00] <jepler> 999979628 YES tt2 ( 0, 0 )
[00:31:02] <jepler> 99938 YES tt ( 0, 0 )
[00:31:06] <Roguish> yes
[00:31:24] <jepler> in 'halrun' (emc not running), the proposed 'loadrt threads' line works fine
[00:31:26] <Roguish> what's the link to pastbin?
[00:31:33] <jepler> http://pastebin.ca
[00:32:04] <jepler> in the context of emc, usually you do not want to create additional threads; instead, you decide whether each new function should be on the existing "fast" thread or the existing "slow" thread, which are called servo-thread and base-thread respectively
[00:32:34] <SWPadnos> or even the really slow traj thread (I think that still exists)
[00:32:40] <jepler> however, any standalone .hal example (not using emc) will have one of these 'loadrt threads' lines because without threads you can't do anything
[00:32:56] <Roguish> http://pastebin.ca/708630
[00:33:09] <fenn> (in short, you probably dont need the threads module)
[00:33:24] <SWPadnos> hah!
[00:33:28] <jepler> hm this experimental kernel is spewing "Bad page state in process" errors into dmesg :(
[00:33:32] <SWPadnos> it is 500000, not 50000 :)
[00:33:48] <fenn> why would it be 500000?
[00:33:50] <Roguish> sorry, been a long day at the computer
[00:33:54] <jepler> http://pastebin.ca/708630
[00:33:57] <jepler> argh
[00:34:00] <jepler> #
[00:34:01] <jepler> [ 2927.456283] HAL_LIB: ERROR: new thread period 100000 is less than existing thread period 494480
[00:34:04] <SWPadnos> because it's a servo machine, and doesn't need to do step generation
[00:34:20] <fenn> o
[00:34:26] <SWPadnos> a servo rate of 2 KHz is plenty fast
[00:34:31] <SWPadnos> (unless you're doing HSM)
[00:35:00] <fenn> would a fast base thread that did nothing hurt anything?
[00:35:13] <Roguish> the base period is 50000, the servo period is 500000 (10x base period)
[00:35:18] <jepler> threads must be created from fastest to slowest; the requested creation order here is: 50000, 500000, 100000, and 1000000000.
[00:35:28] <jepler> but 100000 < 500000, thus the error
[00:35:32] <SWPadnos> it's just wasteful of CPU resources, and it can affect the phase of PID control in the slwoer (= lower priority) servo thread
[00:35:51] <jepler> there is a fast base thread, that's not the issue
[00:36:28] <SWPadnos> Hah!
[00:36:30] <SWPadnos> I was wrong :)
[00:37:22] <fenn> so, basically he has to change the hal file to use the existing threads, right?
[00:37:32] <SWPadnos> yes
[00:37:51] <jepler> that's the solution I'd recommend: put the "fast things" on base-thread and the slow things on "servo-therad"
[00:37:51] <fenn> is there a way to stop motion from exporting threads?
[00:37:55] <jepler> except spelled right
[00:38:07] <SWPadnos> Roguish, I'd remove the loadrt threads line, and change anything that uses "tt" to use the base thread, and anything using "tt2" to servo-thread
[00:38:22] <SWPadnos> fenn, yes, rewrite motion
[00:38:24] <jepler> if you really need a slower thread than the 2kHz one, that can be created after motion
[00:38:46] <Roguish> ok, will try that.
[00:54:51] <Roguish> ok, got past that. new error 'HAL: ERROR: function 'm5i20.0.digital-in-read' is not reentrant'
[00:55:13] <SWPadnos> take that line out of anders' file
[00:55:30] <Roguish> ?
[00:55:40] <Roguish> just delete it?
[00:56:21] <SWPadnos> you need to look through the jog wheel file, and take out any line with an addf or loadrt (or loadusr) command on it
[00:56:45] <Roguish> why the 'addf' lines?
[00:57:10] <SWPadnos> if that same function is already added to a thread or the component on a loadrt/loadusr line is already being loaded in another hal file, then delete the line from Anders' file
[00:57:28] <SWPadnos> because you can only add a function to one thread, and it can only be added once
[00:57:54] <SWPadnos> you already had a 5i20 read for EMC, or nothing else would have worked
[00:58:26] <SWPadnos> the jogwheel file also wants the 5i20 to be read, so it tries to add the read function to a thread, but it's already there, so you get an error
[00:59:03] <Roguish> well, i'lll be. no error (this time!)
[00:59:10] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:05:48] <JymmmEMC> how does rsync work? does a daemon have to be running to use it?
[01:06:57] <JymmmEMC> or is all the meat in the client side?
[01:08:54] <fenn> why are you asking in #emc hwo rsync works?
[01:09:34] <JymmmEMC> what dont you backup your emc systems?
[01:09:43] <fenn> because they're expendable
[01:10:47] <fenn> * fenn puts a no at the beginning of that sentence
[01:11:20] <JymmmEMC> lol
[01:11:35] <fenn> thought you said why
[01:12:18] <JymmmEMC> I figured some in here might use it is all, just never understand if a daemon is required to be running or not
[01:13:26] <SWPadnos> yes, there is a daemon
[01:13:55] <JymmmEMC> is it expensive to operate?
[01:14:04] <JymmmEMC> cpu wise
[01:14:08] <SWPadnos> err - I don't think it costs any more :)
[01:14:45] <SWPadnos> I think it sleeps until it gets a connection
[01:14:59] <JymmmEMC> ah, ok. thanks.
[01:15:21] <SWPadnos> then all it should have to do is check things like file time, size, and if necessary do some hash or diff on the contents
[01:15:35] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure of the specifics of that though, you could certainly look it up
[01:15:41] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Since I only get 1U, I might see if I can toss two systems in one case.
[01:16:12] <SWPadnos> nah - get one of these:
[01:16:15] <SWPadnos> (looking)
[01:16:30] <JymmmEMC> (waiting, stomping feet =)
[01:16:47] <SWPadnos> http://www.aberdeeninc.com/abcatg/Stonehaven-A135.htm
[01:17:25] <SWPadnos> quad quad-core + 64GB + triple SATA HD (up to 1TB each) in 1U
[01:17:40] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Ah, no. I mena for reduant systems
[01:18:12] <JymmmEMC> not for performance
[01:18:27] <SWPadnos> ahy have redundancy when you can have 16 cores!!! ?
[01:18:31] <SWPadnos> why
[01:18:47] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: lol
[01:18:57] <JymmmEMC> ok, off to work. back in 90
[01:19:01] <SWPadnos> you get 42U in a standard rack, right?
[01:19:11] <SWPadnos> that's 672 cores in one rack
[01:21:18] <dmess> $$
[01:21:56] <fenn> only $4k each
[01:22:10] <SWPadnos> actually, I was surprised it's that low
[01:22:12] <jepler> ohly 4K??
[01:22:19] <SWPadnos> yeah, cheap
[01:22:21] <jepler> that can't be
[01:22:23] <dmess> WITH cpu's???
[01:22:35] <fenn> that's a paltry $160k per rack
[01:22:39] <SWPadnos> they're only $11k with 3TB, 16 cores, 32G, and a SATA RAID card
[01:23:03] <SWPadnos> with the less expensive quad core CPUs, they're still under $5k I think
[01:23:30] <jepler> I didn't know AMD actually had 4-core processors out yet
[01:23:40] <fenn> oh sorry i didnt select quad quad
[01:23:41] <SWPadnos> oops - $6500 with quad quads
[01:23:45] <dmess> ohhh.. just what I need sub - par quad cpu's...
[01:23:52] <jepler> $20k with qq 2.0 and 64GB
[01:24:05] <SWPadnos> it's the 64GB that kills you there
[01:24:18] <SWPadnos> go to 32G and it goes down to the 11-12k range
[01:24:38] <fenn> 64GB.. what the heck you gonna do with that
[01:24:41] <jepler> oh I can survive on 16GB just fine
[01:24:49] <dmess> need 64 to mae a real cad/cam box...
[01:24:54] <dmess> meg
[01:24:55] <SWPadnos> they really are inexpensive for what they are
[01:25:23] <SWPadnos> that doesn't mean that everyone can afford it (or needs it), but that's a steal for a 1RU computer with that amount of power
[01:25:26] <fenn> * fenn wonders what planet swpadnos lives on
[01:25:26] <jepler> oh whenever I contemplate lots of cores it's for a compile server not cad/cam
[01:26:08] <SWPadnos> this is the same kind of inexpensive as "oh, that Ferrarri was only $150k, what a steal"
[01:26:28] <fenn> ferrari's are supposed to be expensive
[01:26:40] <fenn> they dont do anything but show off how much money you have
[01:26:40] <SWPadnos> like I need to spend $150k on a car that I'm not able/allowed to drive faster than 75 or so
[01:26:45] <dmess> ok send a 2 Gb file in for crunch... you better have ram and HP
[01:27:30] <fenn> dmess: what files are 2GB and need to be loaded all at once?
[01:27:58] <dmess> i loved my dual 200 pro.... and the quad 200 pro...
[01:29:14] <dmess> tool pathes.... make redundant files... working on ALOT of iges translated files... its all an HP thing.. and time back then...
[01:29:29] <SWPadnos> I'd probably get one or more of those as an image processing farm
[01:29:58] <fenn> i find it strange that you can't sell spare computer time on the net
[01:30:10] <dmess> id use it as a desk top... but i'm wierd
[01:30:11] <SWPadnos> I think someone tried that
[01:30:29] <SWPadnos> similar to the SETI@hHome/BOINC thing
[01:30:35] <fenn> like, you can _give_ it away, but you cant sell it
[01:30:36] <SWPadnos> but somewhat paid
[01:30:40] <dmess> yo can giv it away..
[01:31:22] <dmess> like minds....
[01:37:58] <dmess> bbl
[01:38:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> Actually Fenn we came up with a business model to sell spare computer time - and redundant encrypted storage.
[01:40:34] <Skullworks-PGAB> M$ offered us $250,000 and a R&D office building in Redmond to develope it there...
[01:41:19] <Skullworks-PGAB> We figured it wasn't worth $250,000 to sell your soul...
[01:51:26] <tomp> awallin's new m5i20 testpanel ( wiki updated ) http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?M5i20_Halvcp_Test_Panel
[01:58:46] <dmess> not to them..
[02:09:11] <jlmjvm_> SWPadnos:Im making progress on the usc setup,have it turning my power enable contactor on,fiving to put power to the dc power supply
[02:09:21] <jlmjvm_> fixing
[02:09:40] <jlmjvm_> gonna spin a motor soon
[02:23:21] <jlmjvm_> http://imagebin.org/10585
[02:23:36] <jlmjvm_> heres a pic of the usc build so far
[02:24:00] <skinnypuppy1334> Lookin good!
[02:25:05] <jlmjvm_> thanks,been a long weekend
[02:26:16] <Skullworks-PGAB> JVM - what voltage you feeding those vampires?
[02:28:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> http://stage6.divx.com/MAX-MOTOR-SHOW/video/1493031/mad-driving-skill ( don't know if the streaming divx works in Linux yet)
[02:34:15] <jlmjvm_> these in the pic are g320 servo drives,they are getting bout 35v,using the factory transformer,has 45v servo motors
[02:34:54] <jlmjvm_> or did you mean the vampires in my bp stepper mill,they are 62v
[02:35:58] <jlmjvm_> is that pic bid enough,first time ive used gimp to shrink 1
[02:36:03] <jlmjvm_> big
[02:39:09] <Skullworks-PGAB> detail is good enough for most stuff
[02:39:57] <Skullworks-PGAB> the Power section in the upper left is dark - as well as the contrast on the geckos leaves them dark.
[02:40:16] <Skullworks-PGAB> the Maxtor is perfectly lit
[02:40:30] <jlmjvm_> http://imagebin.org/10586
[02:40:36] <Skullworks-PGAB> and the white table kinda set the lighting balance
[02:40:41] <jlmjvm_> heres another view
[02:41:56] <Skullworks-PGAB> I have 3 203V's and a 320 coming on tues
[02:42:28] <jlmjvm_> what kinda motors you hooking em to?
[02:42:33] <Skullworks-PGAB> not sure why though
[02:42:47] <jlmjvm_> just wondering
[02:42:54] <Skullworks-PGAB> impulse buy - the sale price was too good
[02:43:12] <Skullworks-PGAB> don't really know yet
[02:43:19] <jlmjvm_> i hear ya,thats when i got my vampires
[02:44:07] <jlmjvm_> should have ordered the 320,s then also,but didnt have purchase order yet
[02:44:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> I'm going to be converting my Grizley/Seig X3 to servos (which I have) but likely will buy Jon's amps for them.
[02:46:17] <jlmjvm_> kinda wish i had went that way,was gonna be a dual parport setup with ferror off the 320,s,but was told it would be hard to split the encoder signa
[02:46:23] <jlmjvm_> signal
[02:46:41] <jlmjvm_> and already had the 320,s
[02:47:57] <Skullworks-PGAB> I only ordered 1 320 to play with
[02:48:49] <Skullworks-PGAB> I might use it for an A axis rotary tabled
[02:49:16] <jlmjvm_> i have 3 mills in the field using them every day,only 1 has failed due to a crash
[02:50:01] <Jymmm> jlmjvm_: Well put a fence around em so more cows crashing into them
[02:50:08] <Jymmm> ^no
[02:50:51] <jlmjvm_> lol
[02:51:02] <Skullworks-PGAB> sounds like my friend old place - cows kept tipping his sat dish over...
[02:51:30] <Skullworks-PGAB> they thought its a scratching post
[02:51:48] <jlmjvm_> we are in the country for sure
[02:52:55] <Jymmm> "The mill goes Mooooooooooo"
[02:54:16] <jlmjvm_> wouldnt mind converting my mill to servo,but havent found any motors at a good price yet
[02:54:26] <Skullworks-PGAB> I almost wished I had bought that place - but things at work had me nervis
[02:55:03] <Skullworks-PGAB> http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007062621461319&item=10-2351&catname=
[02:55:10] <Skullworks-PGAB> these are new
[02:55:40] <Skullworks-PGAB> are good for about 600 oz-in at stall
[02:56:45] <Skullworks-PGAB> 37V "Nominal" for continous duty - but I see people feeding about 60V via PWM
[02:56:48] <jlmjvm_> ive seen those before,wondered if they were any good,the price is right for sure
[02:57:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> they are Skewed rotors - real servos
[02:57:20] <jlmjvm_> for real
[02:57:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> very smooth - no cogging
[02:57:40] <jlmjvm_> thats what i was wondering about
[02:57:59] <Skullworks-PGAB> I bought 4 from them - then found they are on ebay for the same new motors even cheaper
[02:58:22] <jlmjvm_> sounds like my luck
[02:58:28] <Skullworks-PGAB> (sold from Mass.)
[02:58:47] <_sh3> /window size 25
[02:59:09] <jlmjvm_> i may get 3 of these when i get done with this retrofit and do a pwm system for my mill
[03:00:15] <Skullworks-PGAB> note: the rear 3/16" shaft is too short for most encoders - I'd make a 1/4" press fit extension
[03:00:37] <Skullworks-PGAB> or I should say I will be
[03:01:11] <jlmjvm_> it is small for sure
[03:01:50] <jlmjvm_> i wonder how well they would work with my 1 to 1 pulleys
[03:02:34] <Skullworks-PGAB> I'm going to make complete new rear covers with an encosed area for the encoder and seperate area to act as a conduit junction for the motor pwr wires
[03:02:51] <Skullworks-PGAB> I'm going to run them direct drive
[03:02:59] <jlmjvm_> if they are 600 oz they should work good
[03:03:16] <jlmjvm_> im glad you showed me that
[03:03:30] <Skullworks-PGAB> If you want pics of the insides - I can shoot some this week
[03:03:42] <jlmjvm_> cool
[03:04:40] <Skullworks-PGAB> I should also post the solid model when its done of the replacement rear covers
[03:05:13] <jlmjvm_> that would be cool,may wanna make some
[03:05:22] <Skullworks-PGAB> Solidworks - one of the few good reasons to still use windows
[03:05:42] <jlmjvm_> mastercam for me
[03:05:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> very few...
[03:05:52] <Jymmm> Skullworks-PGAB: and notepad.exe
[03:05:58] <jlmjvm_> its all i use it for
[03:06:06] <Skullworks-PGAB> mastercam is good for the toolpaths
[03:06:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> but we build the IGES/DXF/ etc in Solidworks first
[03:06:47] <jlmjvm_> yep,made a bunch of parts over the years with it
[03:07:05] <jlmjvm_> tahts the way to do it
[03:07:09] <jlmjvm_> thats
[03:07:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> used to say I used notepad to write all my html
[03:08:17] <Skullworks-PGAB> but sometimes I cheat these days and dump an Open Office doc to HTML - as bloated as M$ almost...
[03:08:33] <jlmjvm_> you can make models in mastercam,but it wont keep up with a real solids package
[03:08:51] <jlmjvm_> but it is handy
[03:09:47] <Skullworks-PGAB> I have a full install from a company I do work for - have to log onto there network to "check out/take out" a license key.
[03:10:35] <Skullworks-PGAB> they can have it installed in every work station - but only 3 active seats at any one time.
[03:11:09] <Skullworks-PGAB> so it uses a license server system.
[03:14:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> Once EMC tapers off - only adding support for new I/O and such - the G-code is almost fully mature. The next big hurtle is to build a powerful linux opensource CAD/CAM package.
[03:46:49] <jlmjvm_> that would be awesome
[07:03:39] <_epineh> Hey guys, can someone give me a quick pointer to start pluto_servo using HAL, I've read through the manual and can see how to do so with other systems like the Mesa5i20 but there is no info on launching the pluto
[07:04:39] <_epineh> well not that I found anyway...
[07:09:47] <alex_joni> hang on
[07:11:16] <alex_joni> the lathe_pluto config uses the pluto_servo
[07:11:19] <alex_joni> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/configs/lathe-pluto/
[07:11:30] <alex_joni> that should be good for a starting point (only 2 axes though)
[07:18:24] <_epineh> I started doing that but as my mill is pretty much ready to start testing I was going to get the configs done to suit it straight up
[07:19:02] <alex_joni> and what's the problem?
[07:19:02] <_epineh> I assume I need to do something like loadrt pluto_servo ...
[07:19:21] <alex_joni> _epineh: start by using that config
[07:19:27] <alex_joni> and extend it from 2 to 3 axes
[07:19:30] <alex_joni> it's easier
[07:19:49] <_epineh> o i c
[07:20:11] <_epineh> I will try that
[07:20:37] <_epineh> thnx
[07:21:31] <alex_joni> ask if you get stuck :)
[07:21:52] <Jymmm> alex_joni: you up early
[07:22:06] <alex_joni> Jymmm: I'm up 2 hours already
[07:22:16] <alex_joni> it's 10am over here :D
[07:22:17] <Jymmm> then you up REALLY early =)
[07:23:08] <toast___> toast___ is now known as toastydeath
[07:24:46] <Jymmm> ah
[07:36:32] <_epineh> if you are still there alex, I was wondering if it is ok to take 5v signals from the encoders straight to the pluto, i have seen comments both for and against, I know with some 3.3V micro's they advise to put a resistor in series.
[07:42:02] <alex_joni> _epineh: right, 5V might be too much for it
[07:46:52] <_epineh> k, I know with the prop chip by Parallax they advise to use a resistor from 1k - 100k when bringing a 5v signal in, I think I will do the same.
[07:58:44] <alex_joni> _epineh: sounds good, the alternative is to use an opto
[08:11:48] <_epineh> thnx alex_joni, I gtg but I am sure I will be back soon with more annoying questions :P
[08:12:20] <alex_joni> np
[08:12:33] <alex_joni> _epineh: I'll be travelling later today, but there are other people who can probably help you
[10:26:46] <alex_joni> bbl
[10:26:47] <alex_joni> bye
[11:50:27] <jepler> alex_joni: the pluto-p I/O pins are 5V tolerant according to http://www.altera.com/literature/ds/acex.pdf -- voltage on any input pin up to 5.75V is permitted according to the table on page 45
[13:15:01] <Guest139> Guest139 is now known as skunkworks
[15:37:45] <Adam1> Morning
[15:38:00] <skunkworks> how is your backlash coming?
[15:38:12] <Adam1> I never worked on the weekend
[15:38:23] <Adam1> I am right where we left off on friday
[15:40:13] <skunkworks> heh - slacker :)
[15:41:34] <Adam1> I had a garage sale that was hell.
[16:18:00] <CIA-8> 03swpadnos 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/pci_write.c: Trivial fix: corrected program name in usage statement.
[16:39:25] <Adam1> Has anyone tuned a servo/glass scale system that has backlash in it?
[16:50:39] <skunkworks> is it a split ballnut? could you take the backalsh out of it?
[16:51:20] <cradek> when I went looking for backlash on my mill, I found it in surprising places. Don't assume it's in the nut unless you've checked everything else
[16:51:50] <skunkworks> ^ ywa
[16:51:53] <skunkworks> heh
[16:51:56] <skunkworks> ^yes
[16:52:14] <skunkworks> cradek: on your big mill? where was it? in the bearings?
[16:52:29] <archivist> loose slide, nut not fixed to slide......
[16:53:15] <archivist> endfloat on screw
[16:53:26] <cradek> skunkworks: everywhere... it's pretty worn. in X I was surprised to find it in the block where the screw is bolted to the table (screw doesn't turn)
[16:53:36] <cradek> screw-to-block: loose. block-to-table: loose.
[16:54:41] <fenn> sounds like you need lock washers
[16:54:57] <cradek> or a tightening once a decade
[16:55:09] <cradek> at least every other decade
[16:55:38] <Adam1> Well I am confident that its in my yoke, Bridgeport style machine...
[16:55:45] <cradek> welcome, anonymous tor people who never say anything
[16:56:19] <cradek> hm, does everyone but me know which part is the yoke?
[16:56:32] <SWPadnos> it's the thing that holds the two ballnuts
[16:56:50] <cradek> ah
[16:57:26] <SWPadnos> Adam1, if you think your yoke is flexing (and you have a manual/retrofit mill), check out Elrod Machine for a replacement yoke that's stiffer
[16:57:38] <cradek> but to answer your question, no, I haven't tuned something like that, and frankly I'm not entirely sure it's possible to get good results
[16:57:47] <SWPadnos> http://www.elrodmachine.com
[16:58:06] <cradek> if you had tach feedback into emc's pid, I think it could work better
[16:58:55] <Adam1> I have tach feedback that goes to my drives
[16:59:12] <Adam1> the drives are tuned to the motors
[16:59:28] <Adam1> emc and the drives arent getting along
[17:00:10] <cradek> how much backlash are we talking about?
[17:00:26] <Adam1> around 3 thou
[17:00:37] <cradek> ouch
[17:01:15] <archivist> heh not run in yet
[17:01:15] <cradek> if in emc you set BACKLASH=0 DEADBAND=0.003 can you get some stability?
[17:01:24] <cradek> lunchtime...
[17:06:24] <jlmjvm> SWPadnos:Can the usc be configured to use 1 ssr for m3 and m4,i have an external relay,dpdt with a 24v coil to use for the direction change.
[17:07:01] <SWPadnos> other than the estop stuff, the SSRs and inputs do whatever you want - just connect them how you want in HAL
[17:10:26] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/709375
[17:11:24] <jlmjvm> would you use the invert on this?
[17:12:49] <SWPadnos> on the spindle outputs?
[17:13:14] <SWPadnos> I think not, but if the outputs act the opposite of how you want, then invert them :)
[17:14:38] <SWPadnos> I'm pretty sure with the USC you want to use false = external device off. The internal ESTOP hardware forces the SSRs off in ESTOP, so you want the external machine to be off in that state
[17:14:51] <SWPadnos> (ie, probably not inverted outputs)
[17:15:56] <jlmjvm> wouldnt it be the same output,but inverted for the direction change
[17:16:08] <jlmjvm> if you wanted to use only 1 ssr
[17:16:17] <SWPadnos> using one output means that either FWD or REV is always active
[17:16:32] <jlmjvm> yes
[17:16:42] <SWPadnos> using two outputs, you can have neither active
[17:17:17] <jlmjvm> but i dont have 2
[17:17:31] <SWPadnos> well, unless you always want the spindle on, you need to have two :)
[17:17:49] <jlmjvm> 0v=no spindle doesnt it
[17:17:54] <SWPadnos> because there's no way to say "off" if the only two words you know are "FWD" and "REV"
[17:18:11] <SWPadnos> 0v = commanded speed of 0, not "motor power removed"
[17:18:41] <SWPadnos> I wouldn't be the one to cahnge tools in that situation
[17:30:38] <renesis> http://www.doingitwrong.com/wrong/585_munkavedelem.jpg
[17:34:21] <skinnypuppy1334> Another genious with a welder
[17:38:16] <Adam1> http://imagebin.org/10600
[17:38:34] <Adam1> how accurate is the path... lol
[17:38:52] <anonimasu> Adam1: do you have g61.3 on?
[17:39:24] <Adam1> No
[17:39:51] <anonimasu> err g64 Pxxx
[17:40:01] <anonimasu> try it in exact stop mode and see what it does..
[17:40:03] <anonimasu> :)
[17:40:19] <anonimasu> or in g64 P0.01(depending on mm/inch)
[17:40:43] <Adam1> g64 is active
[17:40:46] <Adam1> not sure on value
[17:40:55] <anonimasu> well, set it to a known one..
[17:41:03] <anonimasu> :)
[17:42:14] <Adam1> I set g64 p0.01
[17:42:28] <Adam1> looks like crap still
[17:42:47] <anonimasu> well, it might just be the previes..
[17:42:49] <anonimasu> ew..
[17:43:02] <SWPadnos> what feed rate was this at?
[17:43:27] <Adam1> 60 lol
[17:43:35] <SWPadnos> I think the display programs only sample the position "every once in a while", so you won't see the exact path on the display
[17:44:41] <SWPadnos> run it at 10 and see what you get (and realize that if your motors are up to it, then it will be nearly identical at 60, even if it isn't displayed that way)
[17:44:54] <Adam1> I have a question regarding acceleration, how does one set that...
[17:45:37] <SWPadnos> [AXIS_n]MAX_VELOCITY in the ini file ...
[17:45:53] <Adam1> SWPadnow, I set it lower and it follows closer. It still deviates thought.
[17:45:55] <SWPadnos> err - MAX_ACCELERATION or ACCEL ...
[17:45:56] <Adam1> though..
[17:46:49] <SWPadnos> run halscope and look at the following error output parameters for the axes (there may be one overall as well) - that'll tell you how far the position actually deviated, regardless of the display update rate
[17:47:03] <SWPadnos> I'm pretty sure you're seeing a userspace samplibng issue, not an EMC trajectory issue
[17:47:07] <SWPadnos> sampling
[17:48:06] <Adam1> XPOS-CMD vs. XPOS-FB?
[17:48:23] <SWPadnos> no, axis.n.f-error I think
[17:48:38] <SWPadnos> though I don't recall now whether that's the actual error or the ferror limit at the current velocity
[17:49:11] <Adam1> I have axis.n.motor.pos.fb
[17:49:36] <Adam1> axis.n.f-error is a parameter
[17:49:44] <SWPadnos> I know that :)
[17:49:55] <Adam1> ok
[17:49:58] <Adam1> :p
[17:50:03] <SWPadnos> it's an output from the motion controller that isn't expected to be needed elsewhere in HAL
[17:50:08] <SWPadnos> but you can still scope it
[17:50:23] <anonimasu> hm, got any link to the servo amps skunkworks are using?
[17:50:24] <Adam1> So I want to scope that
[17:50:26] <anonimasu> err image/picture
[17:50:33] <Adam1> and compare it to?
[17:50:54] <anonimasu> Adam1: that's the real deviation.. of the axes..
[17:51:00] <Adam1> oh ok
[17:51:03] <anonimasu> Adam1: not what the userspace program things are going on
[17:51:07] <anonimasu> thinks..
[17:51:44] <fenn> anonimasu: this stuff? http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/?M=A
[17:52:48] <Adam1> ok so how should I setup halscope to read that properly
[17:53:28] <SWPadnos> uh - I can't walk you through that right now. maybe someone else can ...
[17:54:02] <fenn> type halscope, click on servo-thread, click on 1, click on parameters, click on axis.n.motor.pos.fb
[17:55:52] <fenn> hey its a pin not a parameter
[17:56:56] <fenn> now in the upper right you can click on 'force' to make it sample
[17:57:10] <fenn> or you can trigger on another value, like Xpos increasing or something
[17:59:17] <SWPadnos> you don't want motor-pos-fb, you want axis.n.f-error
[17:59:22] <SWPadnos> which is a param
[18:03:00] <anonimasu> fenn: yeah
[18:03:22] <anonimasu> fenn: though I'd want the brd file :)
[18:04:29] <fenn> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/amp.brd
[18:05:04] <skunkworks> I think that is the last one I cut.
[18:05:20] <anonimasu> nice
[18:05:24] <anonimasu> did you try it much?
[18:06:30] <skunkworks> only up to 10a and 60v so far. (been busy)
[18:06:31] <anonimasu> much/does it work ?
[18:06:40] <anonimasu> that's about what I want :)
[18:06:51] <anonimasu> almost
[18:06:54] <skunkworks> it doesn't get warm at that..
[18:07:03] <anonimasu> 100v and 7a peak
[18:08:28] <anonimasu> though that board will be a pain to toner transfer :p
[18:09:24] <Adam1> Red is axis.0.motor-pos-fb, Green is axis.1.motor-pos-fb, blue is axis.0.f-error, purple is axis.1.f-error http://imagebin.org/10602
[18:09:44] <Adam1> thats doing the emc program at 60ipm
[18:10:32] <SWPadnos> what's the scale?
[18:11:28] <fenn> ferror looks pretty close to 0 to me
[18:11:49] <SWPadnos> hard to know without knowing the scale :)
[18:12:03] <Adam1> yeah I dont know what the scale is
[18:12:09] <Adam1> let me go again
[18:12:15] <SWPadnos> clock on one of the channel numbers
[18:12:17] <SWPadnos> click
[18:12:31] <SWPadnos> and the scale will be shown where it says "scale" under the vert sliders
[18:12:35] <SWPadnos> vertical
[18:12:58] <Adam1> 1/div
[18:13:01] <SWPadnos> the scale is independent per channel, so set them all to the same value
[18:13:16] <Adam1> they are all the sam
[18:13:17] <Adam1> e
[18:13:31] <SWPadnos> ok, make the two f-error plot something like 1m/div
[18:13:36] <SWPadnos> (1 milli-unit)
[18:14:01] <Adam1> how can i do that?
[18:14:17] <fenn> the 'gain' slider
[18:14:17] <SWPadnos> click on the channel number, then drag the scale slider
[18:14:23] <SWPadnos> err - right, gain slider :)
[18:16:42] <Adam1> ok this is with 10m/div http://imagebin.org/10603
[18:16:58] <Adam1> the blue is axis 0
[18:17:55] <cradek> .06" of error on that initial acceleration - looks like you need to do some tuning...
[18:18:00] <Adam1> haha
[18:18:03] <Adam1> yeah
[18:18:10] <SWPadnos> yah - that does look pretty bad
[18:18:55] <cradek> I like to make a program that uses G0 and G4 to go back and forth, short moves at full speed (with a delay in between so it doesn't bust itself up)
[18:19:15] <cradek> then you can trigger on the motion and get a nice display while you fiddle the tuning values
[18:19:46] <cradek> when you get it to follow well, try longer and short moves to make sure it's decent for those too
[18:20:24] <Adam1> Well I am not sure about the tuning process really....
[18:20:44] <Adam1> Ive read and read and looked and looked. its more art it seems
[18:21:11] <cradek> it's not art, but it's hard to explain remotely
[18:21:26] <cradek> first get a good stable plot like I suggested
[18:21:37] <cradek> then fiddle with the numbers and get a feel for what they do to the plot
[18:21:40] <cradek> in no time you'll be good at it.
[18:21:48] <fenn> (or not)
[18:22:09] <cradek> well thanks fenn
[18:22:14] <fenn> * fenn tips his cap
[18:22:17] <Adam1> jebus
[18:22:29] <fenn> i think with backlash in your system you'll have to be careful not to overshoot at all
[18:22:51] <fenn> so start with lots of D
[18:22:54] <cradek> yeah that's going to be problematic.
[18:24:12] <Adam1> ok whats lots of D compared to P
[18:24:21] <Adam1> 1, 10
[18:24:25] <Adam1> 1000000
[18:24:49] <cradek> what's your P?
[18:24:57] <Adam1> 100 right now
[18:25:11] <cradek> lots of D might be 2
[18:26:02] <Adam1> its sounds like my servos really hate lots of D
[18:26:07] <cradek> at first, try I=0 D=0 and turn up P until you get a bit of sustained oscillation (be careful!) and then add D until it damps out
[18:26:18] <Adam1> vibrations like crazy
[18:26:31] <cradek> yeah too much P or too much D will oscillate
[18:26:43] <LawrenceG> hehe.. estop is your friend!
[18:26:50] <Adam1> I get oscillations around P425
[18:27:02] <cradek> with P=425 I=0 D=0 ?
[18:27:32] <cradek> try leaving it there and add D a little at a time until it stops
[18:44:16] <Adam1> I tried increasing D untill it stopped, I never got very far and my drives stopped working.
[18:44:23] <JymmmEMC> It SOUNDS like you "Ladies" are trying to repair a recipe for a dinner this evening or something.
[18:45:03] <JymmmEMC> Add a little more salt/butter/sauce/etc until it reaches 325F, then...
[18:45:25] <Adam1> In my recipe I think I will have to add 2 more dashes of drives now
[18:45:36] <JymmmEMC> lol, there ya go =)
[18:45:52] <Adam1> well thats an expensive addition
[18:46:03] <Adam1> thats like adding kobe beef
[18:46:26] <JymmmEMC> But using quality ingrediants makes a world of differnce
[18:46:47] <Adam1> Yeah I turned the oven on too high I guess and burnt the beef
[18:47:04] <skunkworks> Adam1: you can always put encoders on the leadscrew/servo...
[18:47:05] <JymmmEMC> ouch
[18:47:10] <skunkworks> or is it going well>
[18:47:11] <skunkworks> ?
[18:47:23] <Adam1> No my drives arent working anymore, that = not well
[18:47:54] <Adam1> skunkworks how is that better than galss scales?
[18:48:36] <skunkworks> no backlash - as the encoders are on the servo.
[18:48:50] <JymmmEMC> Could there be thermal cutoffs/resetable fuse in the drives/motors?
[18:49:35] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks: wouldn't scales be better as it could read/compensate for any backlash?
[18:49:50] <Adam1> JymmmEMC i sure hope so thoose are $900 replacement :|
[18:50:01] <JymmmEMC> Adam1: what drives?
[18:50:09] <Adam1> Servo Dynamics
[18:50:12] <Adam1> 1525
[18:50:19] <skunkworks> * skunkworks just read about the drives not working - eww
[18:50:29] <anonimasu> ouch
[18:50:46] <JymmmEMC> Adam1: 1525-BR ?
[18:51:58] <Adam1> 1525-10-52
[18:53:09] <JymmmEMC> I"m seeing two fuses on the side of it
[18:55:46] <JymmmEMC> Adam1: brush or brushless ???
[18:56:03] <JymmmEMC> http://www.servodynamics.com/Manuals.html
[18:57:18] <Adam1> JyymmmEMC SEM 30M4-59
[18:58:37] <JymmmEMC> is it on that page?
[18:59:22] <Adam1> thats my servo
[19:00:23] <JymmmEMC> Um
[19:01:37] <JymmmEMC> Brushed DC servomotor
[19:01:46] <JymmmEMC> Cont. stall torque 3 Nm Rated Torque 0 Nm Rated Speed 0 rpm
[19:01:55] <JymmmEMC> doh,
[19:02:09] <ds2> running IRC warscripts I see? ;)
[19:02:32] <JymmmEMC> http://www.sem.co.uk/files/brochure/MT30M4.pdf
[19:02:35] <anonimasu> lol
[19:03:08] <JymmmEMC> Adam1: brished servo motor
[19:03:14] <JymmmEMC> brushed
[19:03:42] <JymmmEMC> rated speed: 0rpm
[19:03:55] <JymmmEMC> max speed: 0rpm
[19:03:57] <anonimasu> sweet
[19:04:12] <JymmmEMC> rated current: 0A
[19:06:12] <ds2> isn't that call a paperweight?
[19:06:32] <Adam1> I bleww some fuses
[19:06:45] <JymmmEMC> "I'm sorry you've exceeded the rated amperage, this voids our warranty"
[19:06:56] <Adam1> 30A 140V 3400rpm
[19:07:22] <Adam1> 7.5 volts/1000rpm tacho
[19:07:25] <Adam1> 3nm stall torque
[19:07:48] <Adam1> I blew some 15A Slow-Blow fuses
[19:08:00] <JymmmEMC> "Warranty void upon receipt of product"
[19:08:49] <SWPadnos> "This product hasa lifetime warrantee. It's dead, therefore it's no longer in warranty."
[19:09:05] <JymmmEMC> Adam1: Is your drives/motors new/used?
[19:09:25] <alex_joni> jepler: I'll keep it in mind the next time
[19:09:25] <SWPadnos> yes/no it/they is/are
[19:09:25] <Adam1> used from an older anilam conversion
[19:09:46] <JymmmEMC> Adam1: Do you know it/they work?
[19:10:05] <Adam1> They did about 30 mins ago
[19:10:23] <Adam1> untill i started turning up D
[19:10:27] <Adam1> :\
[19:10:51] <JymmmEMC> Adam1: Their manuals are really skimpy, maybe there is another one that I can't find for tuning.
[19:11:01] <SWPadnos> do they hold position, or are the motors free-whelling?
[19:11:11] <JymmmEMC> Adam1: Hell, I don't even find the fuse ratings in the manual.
[19:11:14] <SWPadnos> ie, are the drives broken or is it misconfigured?
[19:11:37] <Adam1> well the drive will hold, they just bounce off the glass scale counts
[19:11:52] <Adam1> I can make the machine do things, it just wasnt accurate
[19:11:56] <SWPadnos> then the drives are fine and you need to tune
[19:12:00] <Adam1> yes
[19:12:14] <Adam1> however now the drives arent working I need to fix that first :p
[19:12:34] <SWPadnos> ok, I'm asking you if the drives will hold position right now, not 1 hour ago
[19:12:37] <JymmmEMC> You know, bullets make great replacement fuses
[19:13:13] <Adam1> no the drives dont do shit now
[19:13:16] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Right now, he has two blown 15A fuses
[19:13:19] <Adam1> I dont even know if they are on
[19:13:32] <Adam1> I am checkin the elec. with the mulitmeter
[19:13:39] <SWPadnos> time to get out the voltmeter and see what's powered
[19:13:42] <SWPadnos> ok :)
[19:13:46] <Adam1> I took the drives out they look fine, not burn marks
[19:14:04] <Adam1> they are rated 15amp
[19:14:17] <Adam1> so.... i cant see them blowing up
[19:14:48] <anonimasu> did your machine oscilate before it happened?
[19:15:17] <Adam1> yeah it was a bastard
[19:15:22] <anonimasu> oh
[19:15:37] <anonimasu> your machine might have pulled more then the max rating.
[19:15:42] <anonimasu> or well, back emf or something
[19:16:09] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC thought BEMF was ONLY a stepper thing?
[19:16:16] <anonimasu> JymmmEMC: it's cetainly not..
[19:16:22] <anonimasu> JymmmEMC: what happens when you brake a motor?
[19:16:47] <JymmmEMC> anonimasu: I dun know.
[19:16:57] <skinnypuppy1334> brake or break?
[19:17:00] <anonimasu> brake..
[19:17:33] <skinnypuppy1334> You shunt the two leads together to make it brake
[19:17:41] <Adam1> I am on a fuse run brb
[19:17:45] <anonimasu> gah..
[19:17:53] <anonimasu> skinnypuppy1334: if a machine oscillates what does the motor do?
[19:17:57] <anonimasu> ^^^^^
[19:18:10] <JymmmEMC> anonimasu: look for prozac?
[19:18:26] <anonimasu> im going to do something else.
[19:18:29] <anonimasu> laters
[19:19:13] <jlmjvm> im getting an error when i try to start the usc
[19:19:18] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/709526
[19:19:44] <SWPadnos> you have probably mis-spelled an ini variable name
[19:19:50] <SWPadnos> or the variable you want is missing from the ini
[19:20:25] <SWPadnos> look at like 47 of univstep_servo.hal (as the error message says)
[19:20:26] <jlmjvm> just copied the new files in that Jon sent
[19:20:28] <SWPadnos> line
[19:20:32] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:20:51] <SWPadnos> can you pastebin univstep_servo.hal and univstep.ini
[19:20:59] <jlmjvm> yes
[19:22:44] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/709537
[19:24:15] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/709541
[19:25:34] <SWPadnos> ok, look at the hal file, line 47
[19:25:42] <SWPadnos> (as directed by the error message)
[19:26:04] <SWPadnos> 47. setp pid.0.FF2 [AXIS_0]FF2
[19:26:26] <SWPadnos> then look at the ini file, in the AXIS_0 section
[19:26:36] <SWPadnos> there is no FF2 variable in the ini file
[19:27:11] <SWPadnos> the same is true in the other AXIS_n sections
[19:27:13] <JymmmEMC> Neither on AXIS_1 or AXIS_2 as well
[19:27:26] <SWPadnos> so you should add a variable, proabbly set to 0
[19:27:29] <SWPadnos> probably
[19:27:47] <SWPadnos> FF2 = 0 <-- put that in each AXIS_n section of the ini
[19:27:58] <jlmjvm> k
[19:32:13] <jlmjvm> emc is starting now
[19:32:29] <jlmjvm> taht did it
[19:32:32] <jlmjvm> that
[19:32:41] <SWPadnos> cool
[19:32:51] <jlmjvm> many thanks
[19:32:58] <SWPadnos> did you see how I found the problem?
[19:33:11] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: you RTFEM ?
[19:33:16] <SWPadnos> Y
[19:34:07] <jlmjvm> i didnt realize error 47 was line 47 in the file
[19:34:53] <JymmmEMC> it said "error 47" or "error at line 47" ?
[19:35:06] <jlmjvm> that makes sense,was looking for a parameter that didnt exist
[19:35:26] <skunkworks> HAL:47: Ini variable not found.
[19:35:38] <skunkworks> a little non descript. but once you know...
[19:35:45] <JymmmEMC> Ah, that is a bit ambigous.
[19:36:03] <JymmmEMC> I would have thought that meant error code,
[19:36:16] <jlmjvm> thats what i thought
[19:37:13] <JymmmEMC> HAL.ini Line 47: variable not found
[19:38:24] <skunkworks> I was told that the format it is in now is 'normal' linux error format.
[19:38:43] <skunkworks> (the reason why it is formatted that way)
[19:39:02] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks: You mean like man login
[19:39:34] <jepler> 'filename:linenumber: message'
[19:39:42] <jepler> is the unix standard
[19:39:56] <jepler> the older versions of halcmd start mesages with HAL:linenumber: which isn't quite as useful
[19:40:04] <jlmjvm> glad that came up,learned something
[19:41:17] <JymmmEMC> jepler: If it had said "hal.ini:47: error msg I MIGHT have figured that out w/o prior knowledge.
[19:45:08] <Adam1> a few microwave fuses later and I am back to square 2
[19:45:42] <JymmmEMC> Adam1: Now to confuse the wifey when the microwave dont work
[19:55:15] <Adam1> Now back to tuning.... ugh
[20:30:25] <alex_joni> hi all
[20:31:07] <jlmjvm> hello alex_joni
[20:31:15] <alex_joni> hi jlmjvm, how goes it?
[20:31:41] <jlmjvm> going very well,just got a motor spinning on this usc project
[20:32:24] <jlmjvm> i put some pics on imagebin yesterday of the panel im building
[20:41:22] <alex_joni> really?\
[20:42:36] <jlmjvm> http://imagebin.org/10586
[20:43:10] <jlmjvm> http://imagebin.org/10585
[20:57:52] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: nice
[20:58:10] <jlmjvm> alex_joni:thanks
[20:59:34] <jlmjvm> alex_joni: how do you set a pid loop when you set up a drive
[21:01:43] <jlmjvm> P=60,I=1.00,D=.1 is what i have
[21:02:46] <fenn> that sounds reasonable
[21:03:14] <jlmjvm> really,was wondering,first time to do this
[21:03:32] <fenn> maybe more D and less I
[21:03:43] <fenn> only way to tell is look at the plot, really
[21:04:08] <jlmjvm> is that in emc
[21:04:12] <fenn> halscope
[21:04:54] <fenn> on the machine menu
[21:05:13] <jlmjvm> lemme check
[21:06:46] <jlmjvm> found halscope
[21:07:30] <SWPadnos> note that PID tuning needs to change if you test with the motor unattached, then connet it to the machien, change the power supply voltage, change the current limit on the drive etc. ...
[21:08:01] <SWPadnos> you need to tune with the motors and machine in their final state (but learning on the bench is also good)
[21:09:24] <jlmjvm> yes,would really like to know how to use this scope to check what i have
[21:11:26] <SWPadnos> [14:19:12]<cradek>I like to make a program that uses G0 and G4 to go back and forth, short moves at full speed (with a delay in between so it doesn't bust itself up)
[21:11:28] <SWPadnos> [14:19:30]then you can trigger on the motion and get a nice display while you fiddle the tuning values
[21:11:30] <SWPadnos> [14:20:01]when you get it to follow well, try longer and short moves to make sure it's decent for those too
[21:11:33] <SWPadnos> that's one way :)
[21:13:36] <fenn> another way is to just set the commanded position in hal
[21:21:49] <alex_joni> or try the autopid
[21:22:25] <jlmjvm> where is that?
[21:23:08] <jepler> it's only in CVS TRUNK
[21:23:11] <jepler> not in 2.1.7.
[21:23:37] <alex_joni> and it's not really production ready
[21:23:50] <alex_joni> from what I heard, it didn't always produce usefull results
[21:23:58] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: I would do it like this:
[21:23:59] <alex_joni> start halscope
[21:24:22] <alex_joni> add a couple of signals to watch (axis position, ferror, velocity, etc)
[21:24:42] <alex_joni> watch ferror, and command a move
[21:25:04] <alex_joni> you'll see the feedback (cmd-fb=ferror) trying to catch up to the commanded move
[21:25:05] <jlmjvm> let me connect the network to the control so i wont have to move back n forth
[21:25:23] <alex_joni> I won't be long .. and I'm only talking about theory here..
[21:27:21] <jlmjvm> k
[21:31:39] <alex_joni> ok, so the idea is to have some predefined position command
[21:31:48] <alex_joni> and the feedback to track that as well as possible
[21:32:19] <alex_joni> say you are at X0, you command a G0X10, it will try to go there (taking into account accel, vel limtis, etc)
[21:32:40] <alex_joni> the point is to change the parameters until the motors follow the prescription as good as possible
[21:33:01] <alex_joni> in order to do that, you need to always change only one parameter at a time, and test the result
[21:33:16] <alex_joni> if it gets worse, go one step back, and try something else :)
[21:35:22] <alex_joni> gotta run, battery is running out
[21:35:24] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:41:29] <Adam1> is there a way to tune with software and hardware. Something you can just hook up.
[22:26:48] <Roguish_> Roguish_ is now known as Roguish
[22:35:05] <jlmjvm> im having a little difficulty trying halscope
[22:36:21] <jmkasunich_> what kind of difficulty?
[22:36:36] <jlmjvm> added the signals alex told me to add
[22:37:02] <jmkasunich_> and?
[22:37:43] <jlmjvm> see a segment up in the corner
[22:37:53] <jmkasunich_> huh?
[22:39:23] <jlmjvm> its going off the screen,then going away
[22:39:44] <jmkasunich_> you are going to have to be a little more verbose
[22:40:02] <jmkasunich_> if the traces are off screen, adjust the vertical scaling - slider to the right of the screen
[22:40:16] <jlmjvm> k
[22:44:28] <jlmjvm> how do you set the trigger
[22:44:58] <jmkasunich_> do you have any experience at all with real scopes?
[22:45:21] <jlmjvm> no,unfortunately
[22:45:58] <jmkasunich_> see the button in the bottom right corner?
[22:46:11] <jmkasunich_> (the entire far right column is trigger stuff)
[22:46:11] <jlmjvm> yes
[22:46:19] <jmkasunich_> click it to set the trigger source
[22:46:43] <jmkasunich_> (you can pick any signal that you are observing)
[22:46:54] <jmkasunich_> adjust the signal scale if needed, using the vertical gain slider
[22:46:58] <jlmjvm> ahh
[22:47:03] <jmkasunich_> then adjust the trigger level with the level slider
[22:47:14] <jmkasunich_> it will trigger when the signal crosses the trigger level
[22:47:22] <ds2> speaking of scopes,anyone tried the bitscope stuff?
[22:47:34] <jmkasunich_> in the rising direction, unless you click the button that says "rising", which will change it to falling
[22:48:42] <jmkasunich_> the trigger pos slider sets the trigger point horizontally in the screen - if you need to see mostly stuff that happens before the trigger, then put the trigger point near the right of the screen - if you want to see stuff that happens after the trigger, put it near the left
[22:49:26] <jlmjvm> k
[22:49:40] <jmkasunich_> I have to leave in a minute or two - any last minute questions?
[22:52:12] <jlmjvm> to set a pid loop what signals would you watch
[22:52:28] <jlmjvm> trying to watch ferror
[22:53:11] <jlmjvm> i have xpos cmd,xpos fb,and axis0 ferror
[22:54:02] <jmkasunich_> are you getting following errors?
[22:55:12] <jlmjvm> no,i can jog the motor
[22:55:20] <jmkasunich_> ok, then why are you scoping?
[22:56:53] <jmkasunich_> I have to go, back later
[22:57:31] <jlmjvm> thanks