#emc | Logs for 2007-09-20

[00:00:25] <jepler> OK I'm sure this is a total idiot question, but I'm trying to understand power dissipation in chopper-type stepper drives
[00:00:52] <Adam_> http://pastebin.com/m49b6c32b
[00:00:56] <Adam_> I am n00b
[00:01:28] <jepler> when you're running at a high step rate, the chopper never turns off entirely, it just keeps switching motor phases and direction
[00:02:48] <jepler> so there's a voltage drop from Vdrive to GND; isn't this drop taking place principally in the bridge transistors?
[00:03:04] <SWPadnos> mostly in the motor, I'd imagine
[00:03:45] <SWPadnos> remember - the current will be out of phase with the voltage change, and no power is used when that happens
[00:03:55] <SWPadnos> (at least partially out of phase)
[00:04:08] <tomp> revelation: the 'dac' output of the 5i20 is not visible to hal, you need a real meter (doh!)
[00:04:16] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:05:29] <JymmmEMC> Man, Renters Insurance is a pita... all the details etc
[00:06:57] <jepler> OK, I was making the mistake of viewing the motor like a resistor and thinking V=IR, but that is wildly false in this situation.
[00:07:27] <skinnypuppy1334> ELI ICE man
[00:07:40] <jepler> I guess one doesn't learn EE just by reading The Art of Electronics on the toilet
[00:08:19] <skinnypuppy1334> I have noticed a program for RLC circuits in synaptic but never installed
[00:08:18] <jepler> .. even if it's done for 4+ years
[00:08:27] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC lol @ jepler
[00:08:53] <JymmmEMC> jepler: Sorry reaidng Nuts and Volts doens't count either
[00:09:11] <JymmmEMC> OH...
[00:09:54] <JymmmEMC> If you have a newish car... At least in Calif the smog warranty does NOT extend to the time that the owner is required to get their first smog check.
[00:11:18] <jepler> every time I'm caught behind an oil-burner I wish for smog testing .. but that won't come to nebraska anytime soon
[00:22:21] <eric_u> my Taurus burned oil, but since it was an external leak, it passed smog tests no problem
[00:22:36] <eric_u> I finally tracked down the leak at 125k miles
[00:23:58] <eric_u> by that time the valve seals were leaking badly, but the catalytic converter burned that no problem
[00:24:39] <skunkworks> new turbos and valve stem seals fixed my problems. Went from about a 1/2 quart per gas fill up to 1/2 quart between oil changes.
[00:36:03] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/po/ (fr.po fr_axis.po fr_rs274_err.po): updates from Francis TISSERANT
[00:39:47] <JymmmEMC> I just had to toss my 2001 For Expedition on a dyno, they plugged into the computer, then shoved a hose up the tialpipe AND pressure checked the gas cap
[00:40:17] <JymmmEMC> Next year, they have have to pressure check form the gas filler pipe forward.
[00:46:21] <Dougztr> is emc2 supported for ubuntu-x64?
[00:49:50] <jepler> Dougztr: there are no official packages for ubuntu-x64
[00:50:36] <jepler> Dougztr: personally I've had success building emc2 on a 64-bit system, but you have to start by patching & compiling a custom kernel.
[00:50:46] <jepler> for the realtime extensions
[00:50:53] <Dougztr> jepler: so the realtime patches work in 64bit?
[00:51:06] <Dougztr> ok
[00:51:26] <jepler> Dougztr: at least in a few combinations. I've described my experiences here: http://axis.unpy.net/01180573281 http://axis.unpy.net/01181319466
[00:52:32] <jepler> different combinations of kernel version and rtai version seem to be hit and miss -- sometimes they work great, sometimes they lock up whenever you try to run realtime software, and sometimes they don't even boot
[00:52:36] <Dougztr> jepler: great! my home system here is x64, so i'd like to make a native version. i'm researching emc2 for deployment at work
[00:53:13] <jepler> SWPadnos is another person in the channel who has been working with emc2's realtime layer on 64-bit and smp systems ..
[00:53:36] <jepler> I think he's away at the moment though
[00:55:23] <Dougztr> jepler: just curious, i'm going to install it here at home to tinker around and was wondering if i could compile it myself for ubuntu 7.04 and x64.
[00:56:33] <jepler> Dougztr: I don't think I mentioned in my blog posts, but I started with Ubuntu 6.06 -- almost all my machines are LTS, except where I was trying to get a working realtime kernel for the upcoming Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon (and I've just about thrown in the towel on that; I have a report from another user of RTAI that he's had no success with kernels in the 2.6.22.x series which is what gutsy will probaly be based on)
[00:57:29] <Dougztr> jepler, i'm currently running 2.6.20 here in my gentoo-x64 system
[00:58:33] <Dougztr> jepler, it really doesn't matter, i'll be using 6.06 for deployment in production
[01:24:57] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_step.comp: fix a problem I introduced dealing with step rate limits
[01:32:06] <tomp> i just finished writing the notes on how the links to Xenable in core_servo.hal got stomped on by a net command in m5i20-io.hal.
[01:32:13] <tomp> First, thanks to those who solved it. 2nd, how did you find it?
[01:32:20] <tomp> these files appear to me as endless streams of linked signals to pins. Individually those commands are ok, but sequentially they are a problem.
[01:32:21] <tomp> these files appear to me as endless streams of linked signals to pins. Individually those commands are ok, but sequentially they are a problem.
[01:32:28] <tomp> sorry
[01:33:08] <SWPadnos> I think we had the advantage of seeing the output of `halcmd show all`
[01:33:33] <SWPadnos> so it's easy to see that the motion controller wasn't connected to the enable signal any more (for X)
[01:33:34] <tomp> wasnt it an absence in that report?
[01:33:53] <SWPadnos> no, axis.0.amp-enable was connected to a totally different signal
[01:34:06] <SWPadnos> so then you look through the hal files for "Xenable"
[01:34:15] <SWPadnos> or for axis.0.amp-enable
[01:34:25] <SWPadnos> (since the pin should only appear once)
[01:34:33] <SWPadnos> hmmm.
[01:35:22] <SWPadnos> one could make a script that gets all pin names (and signal names if you want to be pedantic), then uses grep | wc (or grep -c maybe) to look for each pin in all the hal files
[01:35:29] <SWPadnos> any that returns a count > 1 is probably an error
[01:36:03] <SWPadnos> but it would have to be run with emc running
[01:36:20] <tomp> wouldnt hurt a crippled system ;)
[01:36:36] <SWPadnos> no - hal has to be running so you can get a pin / param list :)
[01:36:41] <SWPadnos> it wouldn't change anything in the HAL
[01:36:57] <tomp> right, a forensic tool
[01:37:10] <SWPadnos> but it's a moot point for 2.CVS or 2.2, because connecting something that's already connected is an error now
[01:37:19] <SWPadnos> err - CVS, not 2.CVS :)
[01:37:30] <tomp> oh, never mind
[01:37:32] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:52:19] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/stepconf/stepconf.py: chris discovered that testing an axis turned on his spindle. Make sure all -out-invert parameters are set during an axis test.
[02:03:32] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/stepconf/stepconf.py: further improvements based on feedback: A-axis 'leadscrew' in degree/rev. sensible default amplitudes for axis tests.
[02:13:00] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/stepconf/stepconf.py:
[02:13:00] <CIA-8> * show SCALE on axis page
[02:13:00] <CIA-8> * disable test button when bad numbers are entered
[02:13:00] <CIA-8> * write 'degrees' instead of 'degree'
[02:27:08] <dmwaters> {global notice} Hi all, looks like this last split was do to a glitch in the eu hub's network. If there are any more problems, i may need to do some emergency rehubbing.
[02:28:09] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/stepconf/ (stepconf.glade stepconf.py):
[02:28:09] <CIA-8> * linking of home and limit switches
[02:28:09] <CIA-8> * setup of charge pump
[02:28:09] <CIA-8> * linking of spindle-cw and spindle-ccw
[02:28:09] <CIA-8> * custom_postgui.hal filename
[02:28:10] <CIA-8> * ANGULAR_UNITS (again)
[02:34:27] <cradek> yay, now I'm getting two adds at the end of some sf messages
[02:36:27] <SWPadnos> Brought to you my Microsoft!
[02:37:07] <fenn> no wonder SF is shit anymore
[02:38:16] <fenn> my hotmail account i've had since 2000 is now "microsoft live" :(
[02:39:19] <fenn> they give you 5GB of space but delete your account if you dont log in every 30 days
[02:40:00] <SWPadnos> you have to be Live :)
[03:06:29] <skyfox00> littlemachineshop.com is having a sale on their 4" rotary table with tailstock, deviding plate and lathe chuck combo.(P/N 3098) anyone know anything about these?
[03:09:02] <fenn> is the sherline big enough to handle a 4" rotary table?
[03:09:52] <skyfox00> My brother is thinking about getting one...
[03:10:11] <fenn> Max clearance, table to spindle 8.00"
[03:10:24] <fenn> so, yeah i guess its enough
[03:10:43] <skyfox00> he has a mill/lathe combo thing... ~16" between centers, etc.
[03:11:47] <skyfox00> I will be useing a wormdrive from a old video tape reel drive, on the sherline for now...
[03:12:30] <fenn> i'd probably just hob my own from brass
[03:13:07] <skyfox00> you need indexing before you can hob gears the easy way...
[03:13:16] <fenn> no you dont
[03:13:25] <skyfox00> and the tape drive worm is capable...
[03:13:29] <toast_> hobbing has nothing to do with indexing..?
[03:13:44] <fenn> you can cut a worm gear without indexing it first
[03:14:00] <fenn> toast_: in this case, 'indexing' means cutting gashes where the tooth would go, so that the hob turns the gear reliably
[03:14:33] <toast_> oh, i was referring to pure hobbing
[03:14:34] <toast_> no gashes
[03:14:57] <fenn> you need some kind of synchronization if the teeth are big
[03:15:06] <toast_> ?
[03:15:16] <fenn> otherwise the hob won't cut the right number of teeth on the first pass
[03:15:28] <fenn> actually i think it has more to do with the number of teeth
[03:15:30] <toast_> on traditional hobbing machines, the hob is driven
[03:15:34] <toast_> as well as the gear
[03:15:37] <fenn> yes
[03:15:53] <fenn> they are synchronized
[03:15:53] <toast_> how won't it cut the right number of gears?
[03:15:56] <toast_> right
[03:15:59] <toast_> *teeth
[03:16:02] <fenn> if they arent synchronized
[03:16:07] <toast_> oh
[03:16:23] <fenn> someone had to make the first gear right?
[03:16:38] <skyfox00> you get better results the first time with full synchro
[03:17:14] <toast_> "first gear" is sort of a different discussion
[03:17:17] <toast_> but sure.
[03:17:54] <toast_> i know what you're talking about.
[03:18:03] <fenn> i guess you need gears to make a leadscrew so..
[03:18:28] <skyfox00> making the gears is the easy part, mounting is the hard part.
[03:18:40] <fenn> not 'need' actually
[03:18:51] <fenn> which came first? gears or leadscrews?
[03:18:55] <toast_> gears
[03:19:01] <fenn> how did they cut the gear?
[03:19:04] <SWPadnos> heh. a friend of mine made a comment related to that
[03:19:06] <toast_> by hand
[03:19:14] <skyfox00> yeah gears, started out as wheels with pegs stuck in them...
[03:19:21] <toast_> and then later they came up with circle dividing engines
[03:19:23] <SWPadnos> he pondered the invention of the screw, pointing out that there aren't any examples of that in nature
[03:19:32] <SWPadnos> (as there are for the lever or other tools)
[03:19:33] <toast_> that used a whole ton of different methods to generate a gear
[03:19:43] <toast_> then out of that, someone came up with leadscrews
[03:19:48] <toast_> using screw generating engines
[03:19:51] <fenn> SWPadnos: didnt archimedes come up with the idea?
[03:20:03] <fenn> or maybe some chinese guy we were never taught about in school
[03:20:14] <SWPadnos> and you can use geometric construction to precisely place the pinions (for the old spur-type "gerars")
[03:20:19] <SWPadnos> probably both
[03:20:21] <toast_> no, archimedes just has the most famous example
[03:20:53] <SWPadnos> there was probably some chinese guy about 3700 years ago, then Ardhimedes only 2500 years ago (or whenever :) )
[03:21:00] <SWPadnos> Archimedes, that is
[03:21:24] <toast_> well archimedes came up with a screw pump
[03:21:30] <toast_> the leadscrew was sometime in the 1800's
[03:21:34] <toast_> or late 1700s
[03:21:52] <SWPadnos> probably trying to refill that bathtub that kept spilling over
[03:22:18] <skinnypuppy1334> My blacksmith friend has a wooden gear that was in an old millhouse. Each tooth is dovetailed into the spoked hub...
[03:22:33] <skyfox00> so no bad reports on the littlemachineshop.com rotary tables?
[03:22:45] <SWPadnos> that sounded like no reports at all
[03:22:48] <SWPadnos> good or bad
[03:22:52] <fenn> skyfox00: if you expect it to be crap, you wont be disappointed
[03:23:04] <toast_> the issue with leadscrews/gears is that there was no point to make them accurately for a very long time
[03:23:18] <skyfox00> fenn: why so?
[03:23:19] <fenn> antikythera mechanism looked pretty accurate
[03:23:20] <skinnypuppy1334> it's about 4 feet in dia, 8 to 10" thick and a few hundred pounds I came in late on the screw / gear thing
[03:23:25] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:23:30] <toast_> fenn: not compared to what we would consider "accurate"
[03:23:31] <fenn> skyfox00: read it again
[03:23:46] <toast_> even in 1800's gears
[03:23:54] <SWPadnos> skyfox00, ie, if you expect shit and it's actually shinola, you aren't disappointed
[03:24:04] <skyfox00> oh, right...
[03:24:12] <fenn> shinola - what's that, oily shit? :)
[03:24:12] <skinnypuppy1334> antikythera.. there was a new study on it a few months ago haven't had time to look at any new findings
[03:24:19] <SWPadnos> smelly shit
[03:24:47] <SWPadnos> I think they did a full MRI on ot or some tomography scan
[03:24:52] <SWPadnos> s/ot/it/
[03:26:29] <toast_> skyfox00:
[03:26:35] <skyfox00> yes?
[03:26:37] <toast_> i've never heard complaints about any rotary table
[03:26:45] <toast_> like, ever
[03:26:52] <SWPadnos> I have
[03:26:53] <skyfox00> ok, will pass it on... thanks.
[03:27:01] <toast_> SWPadnos: for what?
[03:27:09] <toast_> i've heard of complains from production guys
[03:27:12] <toast_> naturally
[03:27:13] <SWPadnos> some of the really cheap ones on eBay have loads of backlash
[03:27:26] <SWPadnos> and they're not adjustable, so you're stuck with it
[03:27:30] <toast_> do they have table locks
[03:27:40] <tomp2> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Shinola.jpg
[03:27:46] <SWPadnos> probably, but that's no good if you may want to CNC it eventually
[03:28:06] <toast_> i would argue that's a different issue than the accuracy of the table
[03:28:09] <SWPadnos> so for manual indexing, no problem
[03:28:12] <skyfox00> one of the tables on littlemachineshop.com is lash adjustable...
[03:28:13] <toast_> although it's a very valid complaint
[03:28:59] <skyfox00> also, anyone here ever done 4 axis on emc?
[03:29:28] <SWPadnos> yes, but I'm not sure they're awake :)
[03:29:44] <SWPadnos> there's a stock setup for it - stepper-xyza I think
[03:29:58] <skyfox00> ok, right, will ask again at a decent hour...
[03:30:06] <skinnypuppy1334> http://www.mini-lathe.com/Links.htm
[03:30:54] <skyfox00> also, is it kosher to mount a lathe chuck on a sherline mill's spindle and mount a tool holder on the table and to lathe work?
[03:31:17] <toast_> i don't see why not.
[03:31:31] <fenn> sounds like a bad idea
[03:31:39] <toast_> we've done that at work
[03:31:44] <toast_> although not with a sherline.
[03:32:06] <fenn> what's the interface between the chuck and the spindle?
[03:33:01] <fenn> oh they use the same thread - nevermind, sounds fine to me
[03:33:42] <fenn> the mill looks like it would just flop around like crazy
[03:34:02] <skyfox00> how so?
[03:34:17] <fenn> the z axis is really skinny
[03:34:34] <skyfox00> yeah, skinny but think, also made of steel.
[03:34:37] <skinnypuppy1334> Brainstorm you might have better luck making a small spindle holder that would bolt to one end of the mill table and a tailstock that could slide in the table slot and lever lock to a t-nut
[03:34:54] <fenn> and there's a lot of leverage on the column, it seems like it's too far back
[03:35:17] <skinnypuppy1334> then make a tool holder that would clamp onto the column at center your spindle line
[03:35:50] <skyfox00> fenn: very true, but (if I can get it set up with cnc) I am getting it for free....
[03:36:08] <fenn> skinnypuppy1334: why not just make a lathe from scratch :)
[03:36:24] <skinnypuppy1334> Yeah that's 1/2 way there
[03:36:58] <fenn> oh well i'm fixin to make a mill out of my lathe
[03:37:04] <skyfox00> If sombody offered my a better machine for free, I would take them up on it in an instant... But you gota make do with what you can get.
[03:37:22] <fenn> that's poor thinkin right there
[03:37:39] <fenn> i bet you havent even looked around
[03:37:56] <skyfox00> Is that coming from somone with a job?
[03:38:07] <fenn> not really
[03:38:28] <skyfox00> how much you wana bet you have more money in your pocket than I do?
[03:38:46] <fenn> i'm not getting into a pissing contest
[03:38:52] <skyfox00> ok, sorry..
[03:38:59] <skinnypuppy1334> Craigslist skyfox?
[03:39:14] <toast_> you can get machines at auctions
[03:39:17] <toast_> for 200-400 bucks
[03:39:19] <toast_> with some tooling
[03:39:20] <skinnypuppy1334> I occasionally see machines less than 1/2 price
[03:39:24] <toast_> if you are THAT hard up for a lathe
[03:39:55] <skyfox00> anyway, there are actualy 2 sherlines... I the other one is not very nice and I may be able to get its headstock for mounting on the table and make a tailstock...
[03:40:09] <skinnypuppy1334> I ran up on a 3-1 machine local listed for only 250... but he had changed his mind when I called
[03:40:35] <skyfox00> I have like ~$90 or so...
[03:41:24] <skinnypuppy1334> Put it in a jar and lable it machine saving fund
[03:41:30] <skyfox00> My brother has a combo thing... As a result I have come to greatly dislike them...
[03:41:49] <skyfox00> skinnypuppy1334: might make more sense to put it in a savings account where it would grow more than mold ;)
[03:42:10] <fenn> yeah almost 0.5% a year
[03:42:53] <skinnypuppy1334> when I've had less than 100 in any account i was pissed the monthly fee was so much... under 10 dollars
[03:43:41] <fenn> around here they're happy to give you a free account so they can charge you overdraft fees
[03:44:10] <skyfox00> I think the best solution for me would just be to get some sort of job....
[03:44:39] <skinnypuppy1334> ha , know the feeling, my banks atm ballance is more than 36 hrs behind actual in hopes you will overdraw... only bit me twice b4 i wised to that one
[03:44:55] <fenn> skyfox00: when i said 'i bet you havent even looked around' i was actually thinking going looking around for junk to make a better lathe from
[03:45:14] <skinnypuppy1334> perhaps skyfox, or sell some stuff you don;t want on ebay craigslist...
[03:46:03] <skyfox00> I dont realy have anything I can sell...
[03:46:20] <fenn> you can make a lathe out of concrete, angle iron, and roller skates
[03:46:58] <fenn> taper roller bearings from car wheels make a good headstock bearing
[03:47:23] <skinnypuppy1334> yep
[03:47:34] <skyfox00> maybe once I get the sherline up, I can do custom micro cnc work, etc...
[03:47:59] <skyfox00> I dont know it theres a market for that sort of thing though.
[03:48:07] <fenn> btw dont waste your money on an import lathe - go to machinery auctions
[03:48:44] <skinnypuppy1334> ESPECIALLY harbor freight china stuff!!! looks the same as grizzly /enco but isn't
[03:48:56] <fenn> what's different?
[03:49:12] <skinnypuppy1334> SLOP in all capital letters
[03:49:44] <fenn> i figured grizzly was in the same ballpark
[03:49:53] <skyfox00> I've heard of high end(used/old) cnc ballscrew mills that had the light bulb in the encoder burn out causing a crash, etc, going for around $500
[03:50:01] <fenn> so, maybe grizzly is worth buying
[03:50:08] <skyfox00> what about the stuff micromark sells?
[03:50:10] <skinnypuppy1334> Enco / Grizz actually send over inspectors to check off what shipps to them
[03:50:38] <skinnypuppy1334> I thought the grizz was about 1 point better than my enco but it was unused
[03:52:23] <skyfox00> are the big ~ 9 x 42 (~$5000) enco mills any good?
[03:52:38] <skinnypuppy1334> Our local harbor freight has all the same machines , the ways weren't as nicely finished, handles felt like potmetal
[03:53:12] <toast_> uh, for 5000 you're better off with a used machine
[03:53:38] <fenn> yep you can get a nice 1980s VMC for $5k
[03:54:03] <skyfox00> but with how much wear?
[03:54:09] <fenn> its the shipping that's the killer
[03:54:40] <toast_> skyfox00: you probably will not notice the wear
[03:54:54] <skinnypuppy1334> Yeah, I've got a gantry trailer....
[03:55:18] <fenn> they're not like bridgeports with exposed ways and 'flaking' that just gathers dirt
[03:55:46] <skyfox00> if you put a 2400 pound mill in a mobile home, do they flip on there side?
[03:55:53] <skinnypuppy1334> moving would suck otherwise, however I did let the flatbed fetch and deliver the 10' long 17" swing colchester
[03:56:01] <toast_> even a used bridgeport can be pretty good in condition
[03:56:08] <fenn> no, it just folds up like a candy bar wrapper
[03:56:23] <skyfox00> kinda what I thought
[03:56:31] <skinnypuppy1334> BP is nice , ways are HARDER and that goes a long way
[03:57:04] <skyfox00> what is the classic ideal when it comes to large (8-10 x 30-40 inch) mills?
[03:57:33] <fenn> * fenn likes van norman and abene
[03:57:53] <skyfox00> any links?
[03:57:53] <toast_> er
[03:58:08] <fenn> but, that's for manual stuff
[03:58:14] <skinnypuppy1334> I've seen afew mills at the local tool dealer you could put a schoolbus on, sitting int he rain rusting away
[03:58:25] <fenn> no sense in retrofitting a manual mill *ahem swpadons cough sputter*
[03:58:27] <skinnypuppy1334> Kerney trecker....
[03:59:00] <SWPadnos> fenn, :P
[03:59:02] <toast_> K&T is a lot bigger than 10x40
[03:59:14] <skyfox00> why not retrofit?
[03:59:23] <skinnypuppy1334> Universal milling machine, has a swivel built in under the x axis
[04:00:07] <toast_> in the range you're talking about the bridgeport-type and von norman mills
[04:00:12] <toast_> are pretty much it
[04:00:16] <fenn> http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/abene.htm http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/vannorman/VN_Home.htm
[04:00:32] <fenn> skyfox00: lots of silly details, that's why
[04:00:45] <fenn> not to mention you have to retrofit it
[04:01:10] <SWPadnos> CNC mills often are more worn, since they're more likely to have been well used in production environments
[04:01:32] <toast_> and are not built to last very long.
[04:01:40] <fenn> bah
[04:01:50] <toast_> but a lot of the stuff from the 80's is still going strong
[04:01:52] <SWPadnos> manual lmills aren't as suited to heavy-duty milling that you'd use a CNC for, and it can be expensive to get good parts for them, such as ballscrews
[04:01:57] <skinnypuppy1334> Any of you been to the American Precision Museum?
[04:01:58] <skinnypuppy1334> http://www.americanprecision.org/
[04:02:04] <SWPadnos> I think my Bridgeport is a1979 model
[04:02:12] <fenn> toast_: are you telling me a wartime van norman was built to last a long time?
[04:02:18] <SWPadnos> skinnypuppy1334, no, I just noticed that it exists :)
[04:02:21] <toast_> SWPadnos: uh, manual mills are often more rigid and have more power when compared to a similar-sized CNC unit
[04:02:21] <SWPadnos> and I used to live near there
[04:02:28] <toast_> fenn: hahaha
[04:02:42] <SWPadnos> people often complain that the BPs aren't rigid enough
[04:02:45] <skinnypuppy1334> I've been itchin for a while but I'm in the southeast
[04:02:46] <toast_> they aren't
[04:03:06] <SWPadnos> I'm about 3 hours north of there
[04:03:23] <skinnypuppy1334> No they aren't for Heavy stuff, but they are easy to hand crank and work around
[04:03:24] <SWPadnos> toast_, right - but I don't hear complaints about the CNC BPs
[04:03:31] <toast_> those suck too
[04:03:36] <SWPadnos> well ok then
[04:03:56] <toast_> they've got the same limitations as the manuals
[04:04:06] <toast_> except with ballscrews, they've got no backlash and can climb
[04:04:16] <SWPadnos> do you mean the ones that were designed as CNC, or retrofitted ones?
[04:04:21] <toast_> designed
[04:04:24] <skyfox00> climb?
[04:04:28] <SWPadnos> climb mill
[04:04:29] <toast_> climb mill, skyfox00
[04:04:37] <skinnypuppy1334> Climb vs Conventional
[04:05:08] <skinnypuppy1334> climb would be on the outside of a circle clockwise,
[04:05:27] <skinnypuppy1334> Counter cl for conventional
[04:05:45] <cradek> (reading back) I have an XYZA machine running emc2. I also have done a bit of lathe work, including single point threading, on a mill (and yes it sucks)
[04:05:46] <skyfox00> oh, how you can cut...
[04:05:52] <SWPadnos> if the cutter were a gear, then climb would try to roll in the direction of the cut, whereas conventional milling would try to roll backwards relative to the cut
[04:06:10] <SWPadnos> or a tire rather than a gear
[04:06:21] <fenn> cradek: on the maxnc?
[04:06:28] <cradek> yes
[04:06:41] <cradek> the biggest limitation is it's impossible to have a tailstock
[04:06:51] <skinnypuppy1334> If you look at the cutter tim motion one scoops up and away from the cut edge the other down and towards the cut material edge
[04:07:09] <tomp2> climb is the tooth pulls the cutter into the work ( climbin into it) conventional, the tooth hits against the work, pushing away from it.
[04:07:12] <fenn> maxnc looks slightly more rigid than a sherline
[04:07:18] <skyfox00> so I would be best off wrangling another sherline headstock for mount on the table and just build a tailstock...
[04:07:25] <skinnypuppy1334> Climb milling will break tools when you have backlash and tear up your metalstock
[04:07:37] <cradek> it's ok for what it is, but still don't want to cut much metal with it.
[04:08:28] <toast> #$%@#
[04:08:41] <toast> re: rigidity and bridgeports
[04:09:04] <toast> i've broken a ton of cutters from vibration and flex in a bport mills
[04:09:05] <ds2> they are completely rigid....
[04:09:07] <skyfox00> to this day, I have yet to see somone win a fight with peer...
[04:09:13] <ds2> ...as long as you are cutting foam ;)
[04:09:15] <toast> where, in other, larger mills, the same cut works great
[04:09:56] <toast> also, aluminum tends to have a problem
[04:09:59] <toast> er
[04:10:00] <toast> no problem
[04:10:04] <cradek> my bp will happily tear through 3/4 x 3/4" of aluminum, that's about all the bravery I have had so far
[04:10:05] <skinnypuppy1334> I'm with you toast they chose the hp on the bp b/c it wouldn't stand much more cut
[04:10:16] <toast> yar
[04:10:33] <skyfox00> gummy aluminum is yucky...
[04:10:45] <toast> yesterday, i was cutting a block of stainless with a 12 tooth shell mill
[04:10:45] <cradek> need flood coolant to do much more
[04:10:57] <toast> .250 depth of cut, 1.5" wide
[04:11:00] <toast> or so
[04:11:05] <toast> thing went nuts
[04:11:39] <cradek> what surface speed? that's gonna have to be a really low rpm
[04:11:57] <toast> 70ish
[04:12:09] <fenn> did it work harden?
[04:12:11] <toast> nope
[04:12:25] <toast> the ipm was the issue
[04:12:38] <toast> i ended up having to drop the speed down to the machine minimum
[04:12:39] <cradek> 200 rpm?
[04:12:44] <toast> 60
[04:12:59] <cradek> that's not 70fpm then
[04:13:09] <SWPadnos> limited by the material removal rate?
[04:13:31] <toast> i didn't calculate the surface speed, cradek, sorry
[04:13:36] <toast> i just eyeballed the chips
[04:13:47] <cradek> ah
[04:13:48] <toast> SWPadnos: i was limited by the machine's rigidity
[04:14:14] <SWPadnos> that's a hard cut
[04:14:27] <SWPadnos> low speed, hard material
[04:14:33] <toast> the material wasn't hard
[04:14:44] <SWPadnos> SS is hard in my book ;)
[04:14:48] <cradek> no kidding
[04:14:49] <fenn> harder than styrofoam
[04:15:03] <toast> "hard" is like, 45-50ish RC
[04:15:55] <skinnypuppy1334> We've run the heidenhein bp for over 24 hrs on some damn hard naval brass
[04:16:03] <cradek> goodnight guys
[04:16:07] <toast> night cradek
[04:16:13] <SWPadnos> see you later
[04:16:15] <skinnypuppy1334> See ya
[04:17:04] <toast> i can run our bp cncs on whatever i need to
[04:17:13] <toast> doesn't mean they're rigid
[04:17:30] <skinnypuppy1334> Just can't hog as fast
[04:17:39] <toast> right, which is the problem
[04:17:52] <skinnypuppy1334> if ya gotta hog,
[04:17:59] <toast> they also can't finish as well.
[04:18:23] <skinnypuppy1334> I'll agree with that part
[04:18:50] <skyfox00> well, I'm gona call it a night to, cya later.
[04:18:53] <toast> later.
[04:18:55] <skinnypuppy1334> But a guy that is used to his machine with a dividing head and rotary table can bang out some stuff
[04:19:12] <toast> sure man, they're inexpensive and very versatile.
[04:19:37] <toast> there's no way to argue against that and still sound like you know what you're talking about
[04:19:50] <skinnypuppy1334> Yep
[04:19:59] <fenn> bridgeports cost too much! >:(
[04:20:31] <fenn> and you cant turn stuff on them!
[04:20:33] <skinnypuppy1334> But its harder for a noob to spoil the ways
[04:20:34] <toast> 5000 new versus 60,000 new for a Sharp bed vertical milling machine
[04:20:51] <fenn> Sharp? like the tv company?
[04:21:01] <toast> the machine company
[04:21:06] <toast> no relation to the tv company
[04:21:21] <toast> they're one of the "taiwan" imports
[04:21:32] <ds2> speaking of SS, is 303 much less machineable then 416?
[04:21:49] <toast> no clue!
[04:21:52] <fenn> please point out which one you're talking about http://www.sharpmachinetools.com/millingmachines/index.htm
[04:21:57] <skinnypuppy1334> I don't know what was going on in california a few years ago, but cnc mills were dirt cheap on ebay for along time
[04:22:00] <fenn> half of those look like bridgeports to me
[04:22:32] <toast> firefox is being retarded, give me a second
[04:22:59] <skinnypuppy1334> http://www.lathes.co.uk/ shittons of older machines
[04:23:13] <skinnypuppy1334> eyecandy
[04:23:25] <fenn> now the VBM-3V looks good, for a bridgeport-style machine
[04:23:26] <toast> http://www.sharpmachinetools.com/millingmachines/millingmachines11.html
[04:23:39] <toast> the bigger version of that
[04:23:42] <fenn> eh, /me dont know the right terminology
[04:24:03] <toast> has an independant horizontal spindle
[04:24:16] <toast> but i think even that one is 60k
[04:24:20] <fenn> what counts as a vertical mill? just whatever has the mill pointing up and down?
[04:24:31] <toast> yes
[04:24:37] <skinnypuppy1334> Z inline with knee
[04:24:41] <toast> spindle orientation in relation to the table.
[04:24:47] <skinnypuppy1334> horizontal inline with y
[04:24:59] <toast> Table perpendicular to the table, it's vertical. Table parallel to the spindle, horizontal.
[04:25:07] <toast> goddamnit, *spindle
[04:25:12] <fenn> how do you say 'spindle attached to a block that overhangs the table and is attached on one end'
[04:25:20] <toast> what
[04:25:22] <skinnypuppy1334> ?
[04:25:24] <fenn> like, not a bridge mill
[04:25:31] <fenn> oh nevermind
[04:25:55] <toast> cool
[04:25:57] <skinnypuppy1334> talking about using an arbor across the table horizontally?
[04:26:10] <skinnypuppy1334> overram
[04:26:17] <tomp2> arm
[04:27:00] <fenn> not this:
[04:27:13] <toast> not that?
[04:27:23] <toast> can you get a picture of what you are talking about?
[04:27:40] <tomp2> you mean like that but tool is horz?
[04:27:56] <fenn> * fenn is lost
[04:28:17] <fenn> i'm just saying the standard vertical mill design sucks
[04:28:21] <toast> http://www.barer.com/img/AFC127.gif
[04:28:23] <toast> like that?
[04:28:23] <fenn> and you'd be better off with a bridge mill
[04:28:37] <fenn> that's a horizontal mill
[04:28:49] <fenn> it has basically the same problem
[04:29:02] <toast> that's a boring mill
[04:29:20] <tomp2> and a bridge is better support wise ?
[04:29:21] <skinnypuppy1334> Skyfox needs one of these http://www.lathes.co.uk/labormil/
[04:29:30] <fenn> tomp2: yes, because it's supported on both ends
[04:29:58] <toast> there are plenty of ultra-rigid vertical mills
[04:30:12] <tomp2> skinnypuppy1334: thatsite has loads of weird machines ( lots from wwii for use in cramped quarters, like submarines)
[04:30:14] <toast> the cinci and kt vertical mills
[04:30:25] <toast> 50 hp spindles
[04:30:29] <toast> that you can actually use
[04:30:59] <tomp2> hexapod, the bucky fuller equi triangulated hydraulic frame :)
[04:31:29] <fenn> yup
[04:31:50] <fenn> the Final Solution
[04:32:46] <fenn> with roller screws
[04:33:08] <fenn> or maybe just hydraulic cylinders
[04:33:54] <toast> there are cinci 6-series vertical mills
[04:34:07] <toast> bed table, coolant, 50 hp
[04:34:18] <toast> that are fairly inexpensive used
[04:34:42] <fenn> i dont know what 'fairly inexpensive' means coming from you
[04:34:57] <toast> 3000ish
[04:35:08] <toast> i'm comparing it to a new bridgeport
[04:35:23] <fenn> eh? who buys new bridgeports
[04:35:27] <toast> businesses
[04:35:30] <toast> (mostly)
[04:35:59] <tomp2> bps are too skinny in the hips ( saddle width vs table is crazy )
[04:36:15] <toast> bps are too skinny in the everywhere
[04:37:46] <maddash> I heard that skinny was in
[04:37:51] <maddash> is*
[04:46:30] <toast> i wish our bps at work had cat-30 spindles
[05:53:43] <ds2> Hmmmm
[05:54:01] <ds2> is there any reason for a CNC lathe to have a compound slide?
[06:15:53] <toast> ds2: no
[06:41:59] <skinnypuppy1334> Installed 6.06 EMC2 on my AMD machine and latency is way down over the celeron machine ... down to 14587
[06:51:11] <alex_joni> nice
[06:51:21] <alex_joni> it works very good on my athlon xp 1600+
[06:52:34] <skinnypuppy1334> Now this is with an nvidia agp card, is that still a problem since the latency is so low now?
[06:52:59] <alex_joni> nope
[06:53:11] <alex_joni> not unless you try the nvidia proprietary driver
[06:53:19] <alex_joni> which causes big RT issues
[06:53:46] <skinnypuppy1334> Good to hear, haven't loaded any other driver, clean install with updates only
[06:53:58] <alex_joni> then it should be fine
[06:54:57] <skinnypuppy1334> It was time for some good news...
[06:55:58] <skinnypuppy1334> I've only been spending money lately... still need motors pulleys and belts... atleast another pc isn't on the list :o)
[06:56:33] <alex_joni> :D
[07:01:37] <Jymmm> skinnypuppy yet
[07:02:08] <Jymmm> I've only gone thru 3 so far
[07:02:42] <Jymmm> alex_joni: you have shell access to the website?
[07:10:15] <Jymmm> Hey, how do you add a new page to the wiki?
[07:12:14] <alex_joni> Jymmm: you open a link with the new page
[07:12:25] <Jymmm> huh?
[07:12:32] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?JymmmsPage
[07:12:55] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Ok, but what if I wanted it listed some place specific?
[07:13:11] <Jymmm> under "Getting Started" as example
[07:14:17] <alex_joni> you put a link there to the new page
[07:15:00] <alex_joni> if you write something LikeThis (two capital letters in a word), it will automatically be recognized as a wiki link
[07:15:10] <Jymmm> ah
[07:15:15] <alex_joni> you'll get a ? at the end of the word, if you click that you can define a new page
[07:15:49] <alex_joni> but most of this is written here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BasicSteps
[07:16:08] <Jymmm> I looked there, but 1) didn't see the add new page
[07:21:52] <Jymmm> oh man, the table codes are icky
[07:27:45] <alex_joni> well..
[07:46:09] <_epineh> Hey, does anybody have any good links/docs for me to study to setup a pluto-p on my router?
[07:50:04] <alex_joni> _epineh: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/pluto_servo.html
[07:50:08] <alex_joni> does that help?
[07:50:59] <alex_joni> http://emergent.unpy.net/01165199941
[08:02:42] <_epineh> Cheers alex, I guess I need to read up a little more, am a bit of a noob with EMC which is a pain I know...getting there.
[08:33:39] <Jymmm> Eh, it's a starting point at least... http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TestedHardware
[08:50:34] <alex_joni> Jymmm: quite old your entry
[08:50:46] <alex_joni> 1776-07-04
[08:50:58] <alex_joni> didn't know they had P14 back then :D
[08:51:37] <Jymmm> Didn't know they made P 14 either =), much less 1PHz cpus
[08:52:37] <alex_joni> http://issaris.org/rtai/list.php
[08:52:48] <alex_joni> I'd rather search there first, before looking for a machine for emc
[08:54:08] <alex_joni> http://issaris.org/rtai/list_distinct_cpus.php
[08:54:15] <alex_joni> they don't feature P14 though
[08:55:25] <alex_joni> hmm.. seems the athlon 1600+ is one of the best in it's class
[08:55:38] <alex_joni> 7811 usec max latency
[08:57:16] <Jymmm> whats that in nS ?
[08:57:25] <alex_joni> I meant nS
[08:57:29] <alex_joni> 7.811 usec
[08:57:47] <alex_joni> here's a good machine: http://issaris.org/rtai/show_entry.php?ts=2005-03-01+11%3A47%3A25%2B01
[08:58:07] <Jymmm> whioch value you looking at?
[08:59:13] <Jymmm> what mobo is that for?
[08:59:48] <alex_joni> UP latency
[09:00:32] <alex_joni> doesn't say what mobo, but it's some intel board judging by the controllers
[09:07:53] <Jymmm> doesn't help a whole lot because I have Intel mobo with 1GHz
[09:08:27] <Jymmm> and no where near that low
[09:15:06] <alex_joni> well.. I guess it depends on luck quite a big deal
[09:15:39] <Jymmm> that's the problem.... HAVING to guess
[12:21:25] <jlmjvm> maddash:i listened to that wav file
[12:21:59] <jlmjvm> your z axis sounds like my old z axis motor
[14:48:25] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man3/rtapi_outb.3rtapi: typo
[16:49:15] <hugomatic> Has anyone built RTAI for Ubuntu 7.04? I'd like to upgrade my machine but I don't feel comfortable with the RTAI instructions.
[16:50:30] <fenn> hugomatic: nope, sounds difficult
[16:51:11] <hugomatic> fenn: do you know if there is a new live cd in the works?
[16:51:32] <fenn> hal question for anyone: unloadusr pumagui doesn't give any errors, but pumagui is still loaded. what's going on here?
[16:51:58] <fenn> hugomatic: i think there will be a new live cd when the next ubuntu LTS comes out
[16:53:23] <hugomatic> fenn: thanks.
[17:01:35] <Adam_> Hello
[17:06:03] <Adam_> anybody using a joypad for control?
[17:12:25] <skunkworks> I know a few people have.
[17:13:29] <skunkworks> I don
[17:13:32] <skunkworks> oops
[17:13:41] <skunkworks> I don't know how up-to-date this is http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Using_A_Joypad_To_Move_Your_CNC_Machine
[17:29:05] <Guest828> hi
[17:29:09] <Guest828> hello
[17:29:16] <Guest828> i have one question off all
[17:34:06] <fenn> please ask
[17:40:32] <jepler> fenn: unloadusr sends a signal to the component; in a python component like halui this is transformed into a KeyboardInterrupt exception. Unfortunately, with Tkinter GUIs, exceptions that happen while in an event callback sometimes get swallowed.
[17:41:19] <fenn> it closes the tk window, but the hal comp is still there
[17:44:51] <jepler> fenn: yeah I see that now ..
[17:46:07] <jepler> I wonder why..
[18:05:12] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, I've got some strange behavior on my emc setup, running 2.1.7 (?) (newest from the repository at least), with servo-overruns
[18:05:51] <lerneaen_hydra> sometimes at startup it shows an unexpected RT delay message, and quite often there are servo thread overruns (up to a couple per second)
[18:06:32] <lerneaen_hydra> running a relatively standard stepper setup, base period of 28.5µS, max OVL of 23µS
[18:06:40] <lerneaen_hydra> any ideas?
[18:06:45] <lerneaen_hydra> servo thread is set to 1.5ms
[18:08:53] <jepler> if motion.servo.overruns keeps increasing, then the variance in interval between runs is continuing after startup
[18:09:36] <lerneaen_hydra> yes, it increases every now and then, it may be steady for a couple minutes, then jump up 10-20 counts, then jump a few counts
[18:12:11] <cradek> any disk, network, usb, or video activity correlation?
[18:12:53] <lerneaen_hydra> not that I could see
[18:13:08] <lerneaen_hydra> the RT test was consistantly under 23µS, regardless of manhandling
[18:13:35] <cradek> what numbers do you see in dmesg
[18:14:03] <lerneaen_hydra> uh IIRC it was up to 30-40% of servo thread
[18:14:26] <jepler> the check is for the biggest period being 20% bigger than the smallest period, so it could be caused by a 10% increase from nominal followed by a 10% decrease from nominal, or vice versa. 10% of 1.5ms is 150us; if the base thread is also prevented from running for 150us you are certain to be losing encoder counts and the like.
[18:14:58] <cradek> pastebin the dmesg log please?
[18:15:04] <jepler> and tell us your CPU speed
[18:15:27] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, I can't access the machine at the moment unfortunately
[18:15:39] <lerneaen_hydra> it's an 800mhz duron
[18:15:46] <lerneaen_hydra> I was hoping this was a common error
[18:19:02] <jepler> you should also look at how long the base thread is taking to execute
[18:20:11] <lerneaen_hydra> is there any easy way to do that in halscope?
[18:20:16] <jepler> say your latency is often >20us and execution time is often >8.5us -- in that case the base thread might be running reliably, but there's too little time left for anything else
[18:20:19] <lerneaen_hydra> and log the anomalous values?
[18:20:31] <jepler> 'halcmd show thread' summarises the max and last time taken by each thread
[18:20:36] <jepler> those values can't be scoped however
[18:20:38] <skunkworks> I was getting similar out of a 1ghz machine that I was pushing too hard.
[18:20:44] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, max should be good enough
[18:20:48] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, I see
[18:20:57] <lerneaen_hydra> how long is the execution time typically?
[18:21:06] <jepler> it depends what you have in the base-thread, of course
[18:21:27] <lerneaen_hydra> uh, for a standard stepper config
[18:21:35] <lerneaen_hydra> a few jogwheels
[18:21:38] <lerneaen_hydra> 3 axes
[18:23:36] <jepler> Period FP Name (Time, Max-Time)
[18:23:36] <jepler> 49448 NO base-thread ( 3807, 12451 )
[18:23:36] <jepler> 1 parport.0.read
[18:23:36] <jepler> 2 stepgen.make-pulses
[18:23:36] <jepler> 3 parport.0.write
[18:24:02] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, that's quite a long time
[18:24:10] <jepler> 3807 is last execution time in cycles, and 12451 is max execution time in cycles
[18:24:35] <lerneaen_hydra> so to be safe I'd need to take my max latency + max execution time + some overhead? (or is there a 2* factor I've forgotten?)
[18:24:36] <jepler> looks like values up to about 4000 are typical on this 933MHz Pentium3
[18:25:56] <jepler> since durons have small cache sizes you will probably see more variation in typical thread times
[18:26:09] <lerneaen_hydra> ah, I see
[18:27:17] <jepler> by contrast, the rtai latency test uses a period of 100us and does almost no work and no I/O instructions
[18:28:41] <lerneaen_hydra> right, so it's just for testing the timing accuracy
[18:28:48] <lerneaen_hydra> if I've understood things correctly
[18:29:04] <lerneaen_hydra> so a thread starts when it's supposed to
[18:29:05] <jepler> if contrary to the message you get, you think your system is working reliably I *think* that by putting 'setp motion.servo.overruns 1' in your hal files you can prevent the pop-up from appearing
[18:29:22] <lerneaen_hydra> it seems to machine parts correctly
[18:29:24] <lerneaen_hydra> fwiw
[18:29:57] <skunkworks> I started getting them when I had a pretty low base period - then started lowering the servo period.
[18:30:59] <cradek> are your periods as high as possible?
[18:31:07] <cradek> did you ever post the whole message from dmesg?
[18:31:20] <jepler> <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, I can't access the machine at the moment unfortunately
[18:31:27] <cradek> oh darn
[18:31:38] <lerneaen_hydra> tomorrow I'll be able to test
[18:36:50] <skunkworks> *servo and traj period.
[19:03:27] <Adam_> could someone help me with this please
[19:05:07] <Adam_> I am getting a: "pin 'halui.flood.is.on' does not exist" error when starting emc with a joypad.hal called
[19:05:47] <fenn> should be halui.flood.is-on
[19:06:45] <fenn> where is joypad.hal?
[19:07:02] <Adam_> in my external m5i20 config folder
[19:07:59] <Adam_> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/joypad.hal
[19:08:01] <fenn> well, it appears to be fixed in the version on the wiki
[19:08:04] <Adam_> I am using that
[19:08:18] <fenn> just change .is.on to .is-on
[19:10:19] <Adam_> net flood-is-on halui.flood.is-on => and2.0.in0
[19:10:18] <Adam_> net flood-is-on halui.flood.is-on => not.0.in
[19:10:18] <Adam_> net not-flood-is-on not.0.out => and2.1.
[19:10:23] <Adam_> thats what i have right now
[19:13:58] <Adam_> http://pastebin.com/m15f8913a <== This is my EMC2 Errors output
[19:14:51] <jepler> Adam_: did you enable halui in your .ini file?
[19:15:09] <jepler> you have to put HALUI=halui in the [HAL] section, otherwise no halui pins are available
[19:15:28] <SWPadnos> and stop using net like it's linksp :)
[19:15:49] <Adam_> haha who in here was it that told me net was better than linksp :p
[19:16:10] <SWPadnos> it is, for *creating* nets, but not for connecting existing nets to new pins
[19:16:17] <SWPadnos> and that was linkpp, by the way :P
[19:16:23] <Adam_> :p
[19:17:10] <JymmmEMC> "First rule of HULA club is you dont talk about HULA club!"
[19:17:32] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, did you just quit smoking or something?
[19:17:37] <SWPadnos> because that made no sense :)
[19:17:40] <Adam_> Thanks Jepler
[19:17:43] <Adam_> THat worked
[19:17:59] <Adam_> this is a cool video game
[19:18:01] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Commercial for Hula Networks - pretty funny.
[19:18:06] <SWPadnos> make sure it did - net flood-is-on halui.flood.is-on => not.0.in disconects the signal from and2.0.in
[19:18:41] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: When jepler mentioned HALUI=halui it reminded me.
[19:18:53] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:19:37] <Adam_> hey is that poking fun
[19:20:09] <Adam_> reminded you of when you were a rookie like me
[19:22:02] <JymmmEMC> One of the commercials they've had is this big ol Sumoan guy in a grass skirt and leigh with a router under his arm at the urnal. The other guy is excited that such a great deal at Hula, and the Sumonian guy keeps saying "Hula???" over and over till the other guy grabs the router from under his arm, then he gets pissed and says "HULA!!!!!!!!" and pounds the guy with one fist for taking his router
[19:23:28] <JymmmEMC> Tehn the camera turns to the Sumonian guy, with big smirk on his face and says... "Hula" <fade to black>
[19:27:25] <JymmmEMC> Sorry, I musta confused them... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7438976286134464198&q=hula+networks&total=13&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5
[20:02:24] <alex_joni> fenn: can you ask that tripod guy to post some pics?
[20:57:50] <CIA-8> 03fenn 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/halui.cc: add joint/teleop mode switches and indicators
[20:59:46] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/boss/ (boss.ini pid_test.ini): fix nc_files dir
[20:59:49] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/dallur-thc/dallur-advanced.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:03:32] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/demo_step_cl/demo_step_cl.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:03:47] <alex_joni> CIA-8 will be busy for a while
[21:04:49] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/lathe-pluto/lathe-pluto.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:04:49] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/max/max.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:04:49] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/ppmc/ppmc.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:04:49] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/halui_halvcp/halui.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:04:49] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/plasma-thc-sim/plasma_mm.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:04:50] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/nist-lathe/inch.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:04:52] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/demo_sim_cl/demo_sim_cl.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:04:54] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/hexapod-sim/minitetra.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:04:57] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/plasma-thc/plasma_mm.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:04:58] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/demo_mazak/demo_mazak.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:05:00] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/m5i20/m5i20.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:05:03] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/etch-servo/etch.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:05:05] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/motenc/motenc.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:05:24] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/vti/vti.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:05:24] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/univstep/univstep.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:05:24] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stepper-xyza/inch.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:05:24] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/univpwm/univpwm.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:05:24] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/scara/scara.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:05:27] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/sim/ (6 files): fix nc_files dir
[21:05:29] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stepper/ (pluto_inch.ini sim_inch.ini stepper_inch.ini stepper_mm.ini): fix nc_files dir
[21:05:32] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stepper-gantry/stepper_mm.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:05:33] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stg/stg.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:05:35] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/puma/puma.ini: fix nc_files dir
[21:07:41] <Ito-Brazil> Hello there, how are you guys ?!
[21:07:52] <alex_joni> hi
[21:07:58] <Ito-Brazil> I wass milling today on EMC
[21:08:10] <Ito-Brazil> with phase-drive and stuff
[21:08:25] <Ito-Brazil> but something on zeroing is getting me mad
[21:08:47] <Ito-Brazil> see what´s happening:
[21:09:16] <Ito-Brazil> I need to use 2 tools, flat mill for hard work and ballmill to parellel finishing
[21:09:50] <Ito-Brazil> but when flatmill ends its work, i loose the work ZEROS
[21:10:05] <rayh> How are you setting work ZERO?
[21:10:09] <Ito-Brazil> all 3 coordinates changes by itselfs
[21:10:29] <Ito-Brazil> well, i´m brand user
[21:10:58] <Ito-Brazil> so i can´t tell that, i know there are 5 types of "zeroes" i don´t know how use it
[21:11:14] <alex_joni> what user interface are you using?
[21:11:23] <Ito-Brazil> Tkemc
[21:11:43] <alex_joni> right-click on the X numbers to set zero?
[21:11:53] <alex_joni> (I am asking how you are setting zero)
[21:12:16] <Ito-Brazil> Thanks for help, i had used TurboCNC to change tools, but, COME ON! those S#&&t is ugly !
[21:12:29] <Ito-Brazil> no, sorry my english
[21:12:47] <Ito-Brazil> I can zero my axis
[21:13:00] <rayh> If I have to set a part zero, I call up the menu->scripts->Set_Coordinates
[21:13:01] <alex_joni> Ito-Brazil: describe how you zero your axis
[21:13:04] <Ito-Brazil> but i run the g-code, when g-code ends, the zeroes changes
[21:13:25] <Ito-Brazil> hm
[21:13:31] <rayh> In that window I select g55
[21:13:33] <alex_joni> rayh: sounds like G92 and M2 to me
[21:13:40] <Ito-Brazil> menu>scripts>
[21:13:43] <rayh> Yep
[21:13:53] <rayh> you got it alex.
[21:14:14] <Ito-Brazil> what should i do to change the tool?
[21:14:23] <Ito-Brazil> menu>scripts ?
[21:14:51] <rayh> I move the longest tool to the part zero and press teach for x,y,z
[21:15:17] <rayh> then press write
[21:15:37] <rayh> Now my long tool is ready if I add g55 to the top of the program
[21:15:44] <lerneaen_hydra> http://www.snopes.com/business/market/babyfood.asp <-- HAHAHA :D
[21:16:03] <rayh> For that tool I use length 0
[21:16:06] <fenn> perhaps 'zero' should be changed to 'zero offset origin'
[21:17:47] <Ito-Brazil> fenn: sorry my very lou EMC skills
[21:17:52] <Ito-Brazil> i don´t understood
[21:18:01] <Ito-Brazil> i need a simple thing:
[21:18:17] <Ito-Brazil> when g-code ends, maintain the 0,0,0 as it has
[21:18:31] <Ito-Brazil> not changing like its happening
[21:18:34] <Ito-Brazil> just that
[21:18:35] <alex_joni> Ito-Brazil: do you have home-switches on your machine?
[21:18:39] <rayh> no problem Ito-Brazil.
[21:18:51] <alex_joni> contacts for finding the machine home position?
[21:18:54] <Ito-Brazil> im using 2 g-codes, just to mnual tool change
[21:19:13] <rayh> What I would recommend is not right clicking on the display to set offsets.
[21:19:15] <Ito-Brazil> well my machines are UNLIMITEDs hahahahaha
[21:19:19] <Ito-Brazil> no limits
[21:19:28] <alex_joni> Ito-Brazil: ok, then do this:
[21:19:30] <rayh> good one
[21:19:41] <alex_joni> 1. start emc2, get out of estop (F1,F2)
[21:19:47] <Ito-Brazil> oke
[21:19:52] <alex_joni> 2. move to where you want 0 to be
[21:20:06] <rayh> good thought alex
[21:20:07] <alex_joni> 3. select axis X, and hit the Home button
[21:20:13] <alex_joni> 4. same for Y & Z
[21:20:26] <alex_joni> 5. load your first program and run it
[21:20:37] <alex_joni> 6. when program is done you can go to the 0,0,0 as it was
[21:20:38] <Ito-Brazil> i do that all the time
[21:20:51] <Ito-Brazil> it changes, dunno why
[21:20:59] <alex_joni> Ito-Brazil: are you sure you hit the Home button?
[21:21:05] <Ito-Brazil> yep
[21:21:15] <alex_joni> not right-click on the letters to enter a value?
[21:21:19] <Ito-Brazil> that´s how i get the zeroes
[21:21:31] <Ito-Brazil> HOME button
[21:21:36] <alex_joni> are the numbers green?
[21:21:39] <Ito-Brazil> yep
[21:21:48] <alex_joni> can I see your g-code?
[21:21:55] <Ito-Brazil> but when g-code ends... new 0,0,0
[21:22:06] <alex_joni> on the display?
[21:22:11] <Ito-Brazil> it simply changes, like an offset, i dunno
[21:22:13] <alex_joni> or maybe does the machine lose position?
[21:22:21] <Ito-Brazil> yes on displey only
[21:22:24] <skunkworks> pastebin.ca your g-code.
[21:22:30] <Ito-Brazil> machine maintain its position
[21:22:38] <alex_joni> Ito-Brazil: go to pastebin.ca and put the g-code you are using
[21:22:43] <Ito-Brazil> oke
[21:24:51] <skunkworks> * skunkworks thing ito-brazil should make sure his g92 offsets are zero. (g92.1)
[21:25:15] <Ito-Brazil> http://pastebin.ca/705161
[21:25:49] <Ito-Brazil> wow. How can i see those G92 ?
[21:29:29] <Ito-Brazil> please don´t laught about my g-code oke? hahahahaha
[21:29:36] <alex_joni> it's quite long :D
[21:29:53] <jepler> when providing a demonstration of a problem it's often best to find a very simple case which is affected by the problem
[21:29:54] <Ito-Brazil> its a 3d jewery
[21:30:20] <Ito-Brazil> oke i can do a small one too
[21:30:40] <Ito-Brazil> all g-codes do same thing
[21:31:06] <Ito-Brazil> will ya simulate it ?
[21:31:15] <Ito-Brazil> i can do annother one
[21:31:16] <alex_joni> I only see G0, G1
[21:31:20] <alex_joni> and the beginning stuff
[21:31:24] <Ito-Brazil> yep
[21:31:28] <Ito-Brazil> thats it
[21:31:47] <Ito-Brazil> why g-code changes 0,0,0 ?
[21:32:27] <alex_joni> I suspect you might have some offset still active
[21:32:31] <Ito-Brazil> oh other thing:
[21:32:40] <Ito-Brazil> have some PAUSE on tkemc?
[21:32:43] <Ito-Brazil> i mean
[21:33:11] <Ito-Brazil> when i press ESC the g-code stops but i can´t restart from last word
[21:33:17] <alex_joni> ESC is abort
[21:33:23] <Ito-Brazil> hm
[21:33:25] <alex_joni> there is a PAUSE button in tkemc
[21:33:36] <alex_joni> if you press that, you can RESUME
[21:33:56] <Ito-Brazil> some pause on keyboard too ?
[21:33:56] <jepler> when interpretation of the program finishes with M2 or M30, the coordinate system in effect can be changed. http://www.linuxcnc.org/handbook/RS274NGC_3/RS274NGC_33a.html#1002379
[21:34:03] <jepler> 1. Axis offsets are set to zero (like G92.2) and origin offsets are set to the default (like G54).
[21:34:25] <jepler> so if you program G55 ... M30, then the coordinate system will change when M30 is interpreted
[21:34:34] <alex_joni> P = Pause
[21:34:37] <jepler> if you program G92 X- Y- Z- ... M30, then the coordinate system will change when M30 is interpreted
[21:35:08] <Ito-Brazil> i programed no G92 , n M30
[21:35:13] <Ito-Brazil> just G1 and G0
[21:35:29] <jepler> you said you used G55
[21:35:33] <alex_joni> you have M30 at the end of your program
[21:35:40] <Ito-Brazil> i got mad about those dozens of zeroes on right of the screen lol
[21:35:50] <Ito-Brazil> have i? hm
[21:35:50] <jepler> or maybe ray said that
[21:36:10] <alex_joni> 17721. M30
[21:36:15] <alex_joni> 17722. %
[21:36:23] <Ito-Brazil> i have M30 right !
[21:36:43] <Ito-Brazil> it´s a Visualmill postprocessor
[21:36:48] <Ito-Brazil> i can change that
[21:37:04] <jepler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CoordinateSystems -- this explains all the various things that can create an offset between the machine origin and the origin used to display numbers on the DRO
[21:37:08] <Ito-Brazil> what may i do to solve this ?
[21:37:38] <alex_joni> Ito-Brazil: use the following commands:
[21:37:43] <alex_joni> 1. G53 G0x0y0z0
[21:37:48] <tomp> ito does this do the same ? http://pastebin.ca/705173 ( just whacked middle of his post out )
[21:37:54] <alex_joni> 2. G92.1
[21:38:52] <Ito-Brazil> tomp: i dont got ya
[21:39:06] <tomp> ito: ignore & follow alex's advice
[21:39:20] <jepler> how can he both ignore and follow it?
[21:39:29] <Ito-Brazil> alex_joni: G53 on top of my code? G92 too ?
[21:39:34] <alex_joni> Ito-Brazil: no
[21:39:38] <alex_joni> is emc running?
[21:39:43] <Ito-Brazil> yep
[21:39:46] <alex_joni> change to MDI
[21:39:54] <alex_joni> F5 if I remember it correctly
[21:39:58] <Ito-Brazil> i have another PC running emc right now
[21:40:08] <Ito-Brazil> a P233 MMX
[21:40:24] <alex_joni> did you switch to MDI?
[21:40:30] <alex_joni> (push F5)
[21:40:35] <Ito-Brazil> F5 MDI right
[21:40:44] <alex_joni> ok, now enter the following commands:
[21:40:51] <Ito-Brazil> im reading
[21:40:52] <alex_joni> G53 G0 X0 Y0 Z)
[21:40:54] <alex_joni> G53 G0 X0 Y0 Z0
[21:41:08] <alex_joni> the machine will move to machine 0,0,0
[21:41:23] <alex_joni> tell us what the display reads
[21:41:29] <fenn> yay
[21:41:31] <Ito-Brazil> its there
[21:41:38] <Ito-Brazil> all XYZ moved
[21:41:39] <alex_joni> hi jimbobbus3
[21:41:46] <jimbobbus3> hello
[21:41:49] <alex_joni> Ito-Brazil: what are the numbers on X,Y,Z ?
[21:41:56] <Ito-Brazil> X 0 Y 0 Z 0 all green
[21:42:12] <alex_joni> Ito-Brazil: now try G0 X0 Y0 Z0
[21:42:26] <Ito-Brazil> oke 1 sec
[21:42:50] <Ito-Brazil> no moves
[21:43:00] <alex_joni> jimbobbus3: you were struggling to move a tripod with a joystick?
[21:43:07] <alex_joni> Ito-Brazil: good so far
[21:43:14] <jimbobbus3> correct
[21:43:14] <alex_joni> Ito-Brazil: now write: G92.1
[21:43:17] <Ito-Brazil> i gess
[21:43:49] <alex_joni> jimbobbus3: how do you connect the joystick to emc?
[21:43:52] <Ito-Brazil> it wrote g92.1 down MDI
[21:43:58] <jimbobbus3> my issue is that I'm using an inverted tripod machine, not cartesian
[21:44:09] <alex_joni> jimbobbus3: I know how one looks like :)
[21:44:15] <jimbobbus3> USB, /dev/inputs/js0
[21:44:22] <alex_joni> jimbobbus3: go on
[21:44:50] <alex_joni> Ito-Brazil: open Scripts->Set Coordinates
[21:44:57] <Ito-Brazil> oke
[21:45:04] <jimbobbus3> I followed instructions for using the joypad, and could move individual joints
[21:45:15] <alex_joni> jimbobbus3: do you have a link for the instructions?
[21:45:18] <jimbobbus3> Now I need to move in cartesian space
[21:45:33] <alex_joni> there are more ways to connect the joystick input to emc
[21:45:37] <Ito-Brazil> Script-set coord done
[21:45:52] <alex_joni> Ito-Brazil: now go through each of the entries on the left
[21:45:57] <alex_joni> G54, G55, G56, etc
[21:46:06] <alex_joni> and look at the values in "Offset Value"
[21:46:36] <jimbobbus3> y'all are in the middle of something. I don't want to hijack the thread. shall I wait a bit?
[21:46:45] <alex_joni> jimbobbus3: if you connect the joystick to axis.*.jog-input, then you are correct, it won't work
[21:46:49] <Ito-Brazil> alex_joni: All zero
[21:46:53] <alex_joni> * alex_joni can multitask, no sweat
[21:47:00] <alex_joni> Ito-Brazil: then it should be OK
[21:47:23] <alex_joni> Ito-Brazil: try running a file (a short one), and see if the numbers are 0 at the end
[21:47:25] <Ito-Brazil> wow, thanks for that again, alex_joni!
[21:47:42] <Ito-Brazil> i´m really addicted on this software
[21:47:47] <fenn> jimbobbus3: you can join the other channel, type /join #emc-devel
[21:47:51] <alex_joni> jimbobbus3: till Ito-Brazil tries that, we can work on this without interruption :D
[21:47:56] <alex_joni> or what fenn suggested
[21:48:41] <Ito-Brazil> lol i will mill something that takes SO LONG so haha
[21:48:45] <jimbobbus3> fenn, I posted a photo on the CNC Forum for your viewing pleasure
[21:48:48] <Ito-Brazil> thanks guys!
[21:48:58] <alex_joni> jimbobbus3: that was my viewing pleasure .. thanks :)
[21:48:59] <fenn> thanks, it's about what i expected. alex wanted to see it
[21:49:21] <alex_joni> jimbobbus3: now let's sort it out :)
[21:49:23] <jimbobbus3> it's a hack. I wanted to get kinematics up and running
[21:49:40] <jimbobbus3> I'm currently using the axis.N.jog commands
[21:49:43] <alex_joni> jimbobbus3: there is a program called halui
[21:49:52] <alex_joni> halui is the HAL User Interface for emc2
[21:50:19] <alex_joni> basicly it's a user interface like tkemc/mini/AXIS/etc, just commanded by HAL pins
[21:51:22] <alex_joni> in order to run it, you need to have HALUI = halui in your [HAL] section, inside the ini file
[21:51:39] <jimbobbus3> so I'd use the joystick to select an axis and issue jog inc and dec commands?
[21:52:08] <alex_joni> jimbobbus3: we'll link the joystick to halui.jog.*.analog
[21:52:27] <jimbobbus3> I started reading the halui docs, but haven't completed them.
[21:52:28] <alex_joni> that will jog both in joint mode and in world mode (with kinematics), based on the current emc2 mode
[21:52:36] <fenn> actually there are jog pins for each axis, so you wouldn't be selecting an axis
[21:52:48] <alex_joni> the axis.N.jog works only in joint mode (no kins)
[21:52:59] <fenn> (although you could use one button with a mux block)
[21:53:02] <alex_joni> fenn: yeah, but you also have the halui.jog.selected.*
[21:53:09] <tomp> Ito-Brazil: what is the result of running a simple program?
[21:53:11] <jimbobbus3> can I jog multiple axes simultaneously using this method? that'd be highly desired.
[21:53:15] <fenn> alex_joni: oh thats convenient
[21:53:16] <alex_joni> jimbobbus3: yup
[21:53:32] <alex_joni> jimbobbus3: let me find a hal file for multiple axis jogging
[21:53:38] <alex_joni> * alex_joni used to jog 4 at once
[21:54:00] <jimbobbus3> oh my, that almost sounds dirty
[21:54:58] <alex_joni> what driver do you use for the joystick?
[21:55:12] <jepler> hal_input or hal_joystick
[21:55:15] <fenn> alex_joni: you meant halui.joint.selected right?
[21:55:29] <alex_joni> fenn: might have been, it's been a while
[21:55:29] <jimbobbus3> hal_joystick
[21:55:38] <alex_joni> http://pastebin.ca/705192
[21:55:43] <alex_joni> * alex_joni used hal_input
[21:56:20] <alex_joni> jimbobbus3: look at that pastebin, and tell me if it makes any sense
[21:57:28] <alex_joni> fenn: I bet you can sort it out from here, right?
[21:57:49] <fenn> uh, maybe
[21:57:58] <fenn> * fenn needs a snack
[21:58:00] <alex_joni> * alex_joni was thinking about heading for bed :)
[21:58:05] <toast> i sorted it out from here once
[21:58:15] <fenn> maybe i'll have some toast
[21:58:35] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos is waiting for his Indian food to arrive. mmmmmmm
[21:58:50] <jimbobbus3> makes sense - you're mapping the joystick axes to the halui jog commands using the net directives
[21:59:01] <alex_joni> right
[21:59:21] <alex_joni> jimbobbus3: the jog speed and deadband are soemthing you need to adjust
[21:59:49] <alex_joni> and of course you probably don't have input.0.abs-x-position, but something like joystick.0....
[22:00:02] <alex_joni> fenn: use bogosort :D
[22:00:55] <alex_joni> fenn: quite well described in this paper: http://www.tcs.ifi.lmu.de/~gruberh/data/fun07-final.pdf
[22:01:21] <jimbobbus3> thanks for the help. I'll put it to practice later tonight and post results on the forum thread when I'm working.
[22:01:30] <jimbobbus3> Gotta feed the yard apes now
[22:02:11] <SWPadnos> hmmm. is that children or dogs? :)
[22:02:27] <alex_joni> jimbobbus3: that machine really reminds me of mine
[22:02:30] <jimbobbus3> children. dogs would be much easier to handle.
[22:02:32] <alex_joni> especially the washer :D
[22:02:34] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:04:00] <skunkworks> Cool - he showed up.
[22:04:04] <alex_joni> yeah
[22:04:22] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[22:04:24] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:04:29] <fenn> night
[22:04:53] <SWPadnos> see you
[22:05:02] <tomp> nite
[22:05:09] <alex_joni> hal version 0.5.7-1ubuntu18.3 is just coming up :)
[22:05:37] <tomp> is jimbobbus3's machine linkages or cable?
[22:05:41] <SWPadnos> must be the wrong HAL )
[22:05:48] <SWPadnos> wire
[22:06:00] <SWPadnos> there's a photo in the cnczone thread
[22:06:24] <alex_joni> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43872
[22:06:26] <SWPadnos> which is here: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43872
[22:06:29] <SWPadnos> rigth
[22:06:30] <SWPadnos> ht
[22:06:58] <tomp> is that a subscription site? yeah, join our community today
[22:07:06] <fenn> fishing line he said
[22:07:18] <alex_joni> tomp: you can watch mine for free
[22:07:17] <SWPadnos> it is, but you can read most linked discussions
[22:07:19] <fenn> http://eludium.stensat.org/mcguire/tripod_prototype_small2.jpg
[22:07:21] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/mytoy/
[22:07:26] <tomp> right, thanks
[22:07:38] <tomp> hector in another plane
[22:07:46] <alex_joni> it's 3-dof hector
[22:07:48] <fenn> no hector only has 2
[22:07:55] <tomp> but 3d
[22:07:59] <alex_joni> right
[22:08:14] <alex_joni> * alex_joni ran this with emc2 2.3 years ago
[22:08:34] <SWPadnos> we're not even to emc2 2.2 yet! ;)
[22:08:46] <alex_joni> you're not ..
[22:08:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:09:44] <fenn> alex is years ahead of us
[22:09:55] <SWPadnos> or he was years ago anyway
[22:09:55] <tomp> the tripod_prototype_small2.jpg... almost inivisible!, put on some #000 cable!
[22:10:01] <dmess> i remember seeing that along time ago... maybe even emc days
[22:10:19] <alex_joni> dmess: there was a hexapod with cable in emc days
[22:10:55] <dmess> naaa this was/looked the same as yours..
[22:11:03] <tomp> yeah, a full blown crane for moving big stuff
[22:11:14] <alex_joni> dmess: mine's from 2005
[22:11:39] <fenn> btw this seems sorta on-topic: http://www.pabr.org/sixlinux/sixlinux.en.html#demo
[22:12:10] <fenn> oops, scroll up to the top
[22:12:31] <alex_joni> that's cool
[22:13:54] <alex_joni> bet it works with hal_input
[22:13:54] <dmess> way cool..
[22:14:19] <tomp> http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/robocrane/
[22:15:08] <alex_joni> tomp: right, that
[22:15:44] <alex_joni> it was later called Aerial Multi-axis Platform
[22:16:05] <fenn> i like the lunar rover with the toy backhoe on it :)
[22:17:08] <alex_joni> * alex_joni really goes to bed
[22:17:10] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:17:14] <tomp> gotta reformat some 2.5's bbl
[22:17:36] <fenn> oh cool it has a toolchanger
[22:19:51] <tomp> before i shut down... next fest... emc2 robocrane amusement rides :)
[22:54:20] <Adam_> What is the deal with the estop pin on the mesa 5i20?
[22:54:40] <Adam_> is it just sensing a signal and when thats broken it estops?
[22:58:20] <Adam_> I have a hardware estop that is independent, I am just wanting it to tie into EMC, and trip the estop in the software nothing else. I have a 15vdc signal that I can use to send that signal from my hardware.
[23:00:30] <rayh> Let me look for the estop signals in iocontrol.
[23:00:32] <Adam_> i am trying to make it a simple Here I have 15vdc, now i dont => estopped. Now I have 15vdc again you can reset me.
[23:01:04] <rayh> Ordinarily it does not reset emc when external estop is released.
[23:01:15] <rayh> You reset from the gui you are using.
[23:03:43] <Adam_> So my 15vdc is only on when the machine is on, when the machine is off I have no 15vdc. How can I turn the machine back on from the gui if i dont have that 15vdc at the start...
[23:03:48] <rayh> Do you have the mesa IO interface
[23:04:26] <rayh> 16 in 8 out?
[23:04:34] <Adam_> yeah
[23:04:42] <Adam_> i have the 7i37 and the 7i33
[23:04:51] <rayh> Okay so one of those input pins is the external estop.
[23:05:44] <Adam_> # Connect e-stop write/sense to I/O controller.
[23:05:44] <Adam_> #
[23:05:44] <Adam_> # The estop from the opto module should be jumpered to one of the
[23:05:44] <Adam_> # m5i20 estop pins. This will notify the motion of the estop condition
[23:05:44] <Adam_> # and it will zero the DACs and turn off all output even if the PC
[23:05:45] <Adam_> # has crashed.
[23:05:47] <Adam_> #
[23:05:48] <Adam_> #newsig EstopSense bit
[23:05:51] <Adam_> #newsig EstopWrite bit
[23:05:53] <Adam_> # create a signal for the estop loopback -- remove for external
[23:05:54] <Adam_> linkpp iocontrol.0.user-enable-out iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[23:05:57] <Adam_> # use this if you have an external estop switch
[23:05:59] <Adam_> #linksp EstopSense <= m5i20.0.estop-in-not
[23:06:01] <Adam_> #linksp EstopSense <= m5i20.0.in-15
[23:06:02] <Adam_> #xlinksp EstopSense => iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[23:06:06] <Adam_> #linksp EstopWrite => m5i20.0.out-07
[23:06:08] <Adam_> #linksp EstopWrite <= iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
[23:06:51] <Adam_> I think I am confused about the whole estop situation
[23:07:33] <rayh> I tend to add in classicladder and wrote the demo for it.
[23:08:36] <Adam_> To understand my machine better, I have the estop in series with my limits, and only when that series in connected will my 3 relays get 24vdc fromt he source.
[23:09:00] <Adam_> the 3 relays are pulled down with the outputs on my IO card
[23:09:10] <Adam_> they control drives coolant and vfd
[23:10:10] <rayh> So the external estop or any of the limits will remove power to the relays.
[23:10:19] <Adam_> yes
[23:11:42] <rayh> But the pc must send a signal to the mesa to turn on the 24 volt output before the chain will power up.
[23:12:39] <Adam_> its a 24vdc powersupply in my machine
[23:12:42] <rayh> Let me test some things here.
[23:13:07] <Adam_> mesa card doesnt send any voltage out of the outputs, it is just pulling the voltage down
[23:13:23] <Adam_> it allows it through like a switch
[23:13:46] <Adam_> The mesa output is basically just another switch in the estop chain
[23:15:16] <rayh> Ah right NPN normally open.
[23:20:23] <rayh> iocontrol.0.user-request-enable is like a momentary contact when the gui's estop is turned off.
[23:24:01] <rayh> I think you can or this signal with the signal from your external estop up.
[23:24:50] <rayh> Darn that's hard to think about this late in my day.
[23:27:29] <Adam_> haha
[23:29:44] <rayh> What mesa pin number pulls the relays?
[23:30:53] <Adam_> out5 out6 out1 out2
[23:31:05] <Adam_> 1 2 are fwd rev on vfd
[23:31:17] <Adam_> 5 is drives 6 is coolant
[23:32:32] <fenn> hey how come you're linking to estopsense twice? m5i20.0.estop-in-not and m5i20.0.in-15
[23:34:00] <Adam_> well i am going with the standard mesa_io.hal and just modifying it. That is what was in it to begin with
[23:34:24] <fenn> oh i see, they're commented out
[23:34:43] <Adam_> is that going to make a difference?
[23:34:55] <fenn> uh, yeah. commenting makes the code not do anything
[23:34:59] <Adam_> no no
[23:35:05] <Adam_> m5i20.0.estop-in-not and m5i20.0.in-15
[23:35:18] <fenn> oh, i dont know what estop-in-not is
[23:35:23] <Adam_> either do i
[23:35:51] <Adam_> is there an example out there of an actual circuit done up?
[23:35:52] <rayh> So you have +24 running through estop switch and limits and to one side of each coil.
[23:36:00] <Adam_> ^ yes
[23:36:33] <fenn> there used to be diagrams of the mazak i think
[23:36:38] <rayh> How do you tell the m5I20 that estop is up?
[23:36:59] <rayh> The external part of it anyway?
[23:37:07] <Adam_> Thats what I am trying to figure out
[23:37:29] <Adam_> especially since that my 15vdc is only on if my relays are on
[23:37:53] <rayh> which relay or all of them?
[23:38:13] <Adam_> the drive relay, The drives need a 110dc and a 15vdc
[23:38:23] <fenn> Adam_: this is probably not what you wanted :) http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?MazakEstopChain
[23:38:44] <rayh> Okay so we can think of the drives relay as the estop relay for the machine.
[23:38:52] <Adam_> I have a 24vdc that is always on regardless but its a rectified 24vdc so i cant get a signal from it
[23:39:18] <rayh> Is the neutral side of that 15 volts common with the 24 volt?
[23:39:25] <Adam_> no
[23:39:34] <SWPadnos> rayh, if you're looking for an estop input to the FPGA, which shuts off the PWMs and such, I don't think there is one
[23:39:42] <Adam_> the 15vdc is a reg dc voltage
[23:40:00] <Adam_> the 24v has no common
[23:40:00] <SWPadnos> you just need to use dumb I/O for it (like a parallel port)
[23:41:06] <rayh> What I was looking for was a way to signal that external estop is okay.
[23:41:25] <SWPadnos> ah. ok. I'll go back to lurking now :)
[23:41:35] <rayh> No don't please
[23:41:38] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:41:59] <fenn> if the external estop is OK it should be a closed circuit
[23:42:04] <rayh> gotta put some dinner in the oven bbiab
[23:43:48] <fenn> Adam_: you should draw a circuit diagram of the estop chain
[23:43:54] <Adam_> yeah the 5i20 is acting like a switch in that estop chain too....
[23:44:15] <Adam_> so when I output on the mesa 5i20 the estop switch is complete and the machine gets power
[23:44:19] <Adam_> I think thats the problem
[23:44:31] <fenn> if emc is the source of the estop it wont be able to close the 'emc' switch
[23:44:56] <Adam_> its just a switch in series with the circuit
[23:45:59] <fenn> your machine shouldn't go into estop if there's no power, right?
[23:46:24] <Adam_> our gui doesnt
[23:46:38] <SWPadnos> actually the machine should go into estop if there's no power
[23:46:41] <Adam_> if theres no power the machine does nothing
[23:46:45] <fenn> SWPadnos: sure about that?
[23:46:51] <fenn> seems like it'd be impossible to turn on
[23:46:58] <SWPadnos> because you don't want the machine to turn on again when the power comes back on
[23:47:25] <Adam_> yeah if you take it out of estop or off hte limits the machine turns back on right away
[23:47:27] <SWPadnos> the whole idea of estop is that the machine can *not* start moving again without human intervention
[23:47:34] <Adam_> because the switch on the mesa out is closed
[23:47:53] <fenn> ok, so is there supposed to be a separate estop-reset button on the machine?
[23:48:16] <SWPadnos> there's an estop latch HAL component. I'm not sure if it's still needed
[23:49:14] <SWPadnos> It's not a simple matter, and unfortunately I don't remember what the proper configuration is (without using classicladder)
[23:49:33] <Adam_> I need a real example I guess
[23:49:40] <Adam_> and to copy that
[23:49:44] <SWPadnos> there should be several in the sample configs
[23:49:56] <Adam_> I shouldnt be relying on my estop chain to turn my machine on
[23:49:59] <Adam_> from the mesa card
[23:50:19] <fenn> step 1: define the problem
[23:50:24] <fenn> step 2: solve the problem
[23:50:33] <SWPadnos> and starting/stopping is not a simple subject
[23:51:00] <SWPadnos> I think I came up with 4 or 5 different kinds of "stop" states
[23:51:09] <Adam_> I am technically fine with this setup right now. If after my machine estops i go to my GUI invoke the estop there.
[23:51:12] <SWPadnos> with varying levels of emergency / impending danger
[23:51:33] <SWPadnos> that should be a simple connection
[23:51:58] <SWPadnos> it's getting the PC to re-enable things (once the error is cleared in hardware - like moving off the switch and/or popping out the big red button)
[23:52:04] <SWPadnos> that's a brain-twister
[23:52:22] <Adam_> but i cant get that voltage back because it relys on my estop chain
[23:52:27] <Adam_> once i lose it, its gone
[23:52:36] <Adam_> unless i can turn the machine back on
[23:52:53] <SWPadnos> it seems that the power for the relays that are in the estop chain shouldn't be switched by the estop chain
[23:53:02] <fenn> maybe you need a separate power source to turn the relays back on
[23:53:16] <SWPadnos> unless you do something like the standard latching relay (you know, with a start and stop button)
[23:53:16] <fenn> and then when they come back on, it latches
[23:55:29] <Adam_> ok what about this
[23:55:45] <Adam_> when the estop is triggered the machine power is just off in emc
[23:55:55] <Adam_> nothing to do with the estop button in emc
[23:56:08] <Adam_> so to start the machine again i just toggle power on the gui
[23:57:01] <Adam_> so an external estop goes low on the mesa and turn power off in emc
[23:57:37] <Adam_> This is how i start the machine:
[23:57:38] <Adam_> # Power Drives from "F2" Toggle Machine Power
[23:57:38] <Adam_> linksp Xenable m5i20.0.out-05
[23:58:18] <SWPadnos> so you're essentially saying that the hardware will estop itself and notify emc via an input, and then you just fix the hardware error, then hit F1/F2 to get out of estop and back to machine on?
[23:58:32] <Adam_> yes
[23:58:37] <Adam_> no idea how that works
[23:58:44] <SWPadnos> yes, that's the simple way to do it :)
[23:59:11] <SWPadnos> but it does mean that hitting f1 in the UI won't trip the hardware stop circuitry
[23:59:30] <Adam_> ok
[23:59:32] <SWPadnos> it will turn machine off, which seems like it may be the same thing on this machine
[23:59:42] <Adam_> yes