#emc | Logs for 2007-09-17

[00:07:56] <skunkworks> sunday again - didn't I say that last weekend?
[00:09:03] <JymmmEMC> ...and still havne't sodl the engraver.
[00:09:07] <JymmmEMC> sold
[00:09:23] <JymmmEMC> "yeah yeah, I'm working on it" heard it before.
[00:09:25] <skunkworks> what are you trying to say?
[00:09:39] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks: GET OFF THE FENCE!
[00:09:48] <skunkworks> heh
[00:10:28] <skunkworks> would you bid on it?
[00:10:38] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks: I think it be dumb for sell something like that that you got for $150, especialyl when you could get some good use out of it, even if just to mill PCB's.
[00:10:57] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks: I doubt it at the price you want for it.
[00:11:32] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks: Hell, you could just mill PCB's for ppl if nothing else and pay for your garage
[00:12:26] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks: there are zillions of electronic projects in the magazines, you could get the artwork, and make the PCB's as ppl ordered them.
[00:12:40] <skunkworks> neat idea.
[00:12:53] <JymmmEMC> even really old ones where the one company that did make the PCB's no long has any stock left.
[00:12:57] <eric_u> can't legally do that
[00:13:02] <skunkworks> setup a big sheet and walk away :)
[00:13:11] <JymmmEMC> and not worth running another patch for such small quantity.
[00:13:35] <skunkworks> black market pcb :)
[00:13:35] <JymmmEMC> eric_u: sure you can, just get the authors permission - they like to see their hard work/project thrive.
[00:13:48] <jmkasunich> some do
[00:14:03] <jmkasunich> others only did the "hard work" because they wanted to make money off of it
[00:14:20] <eric_u> people are funny about that
[00:14:39] <eric_u> I'm guessing most would not like to see someone else making money off their project
[00:14:44] <JymmmEMC> Well, you just have a release form that ppl ordering have to sign.
[00:15:05] <JymmmEMC> it's doen all the time.
[00:15:14] <skunkworks> or give the person a percentage of the sale..
[00:15:37] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks: there are enogugh projects out there that I don't think you have to worry about it.
[00:16:01] <JymmmEMC> Look at every copy of Nuts and Volts as example
[00:16:28] <JymmmEMC> Hell look at a simple db25 to terminal strip breakout board
[00:17:09] <JymmmEMC> or even a simpel board to make a regulated PS for some funky voltage
[00:17:31] <skunkworks> resolver to quadture converters.s.
[00:17:37] <JymmmEMC> or even the board that jmkasunich made to sit on top of a cap
[00:18:04] <JymmmEMC> assuming jmkasunich didn't make his own board, just designed it.
[00:18:48] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks: Hell, man you could even place an add on Eagle's website.
[00:18:51] <JymmmEMC> ad
[00:20:13] <jmkasunich> JymmmEMC: how much do you think skunkworks could charge for a board?
[00:20:31] <skunkworks> * skunkworks would probably be sued....
[00:20:50] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: depends on cost of consumables... but rate * sq mm * run_time
[00:20:51] <skunkworks> after someone blowes up a few thousand dollar servo
[00:21:00] <jmkasunich> well, an ad on Eagle's site would mean you are willing to manufacture someone elses's board designs
[00:21:09] <jmkasunich> selling machine time basically, not designs
[00:21:31] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: right, and?
[00:21:49] <jmkasunich> have you looked at prototype board houses?
[00:22:00] <JymmmEMC> Yeah, $40 minimum
[00:22:14] <jmkasunich> you can get real boards (chem etched, plated thru holes, silkscreen, etc) for well under $100
[00:22:19] <JymmmEMC> and that being the cheap side
[00:22:30] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: per board or two
[00:22:36] <jmkasunich> if I was skunk, I wouldn't turn on a machine for $40
[00:22:50] <jmkasunich> too much hassle, shipping, processing orders, etc
[00:22:53] <JymmmEMC> you do them in bulk, not one job at a time
[00:23:13] <jmkasunich> you mean one customer who wants 10 boards, or 10 customers?
[00:23:25] <JymmmEMC> but how hard is it to shove a PCB on a machien, load a file and hit go
[00:23:41] <JymmmEMC> no finishing work. padded envlopes are cheap
[00:24:41] <JymmmEMC> even the USPS gives boxes awat for free for using Pririty mail with delivery confirmation.
[00:24:50] <JymmmEMC> flat rate boxes for up to 70 lbs
[00:24:56] <JymmmEMC> for under $10
[00:24:58] <jmkasunich> milled PC boards are the bottom of the barrel in terms of attracting cheapskate customers
[00:25:18] <jmkasunich> they're fine for your own projects, where they mean no shipping, and no waiting
[00:25:19] <JymmmEMC> it's a market
[00:25:32] <jmkasunich> its a market that is really hard to make money in
[00:25:33] <JymmmEMC> not a huge one, but maybe beer money
[00:25:42] <jmkasunich> (at least if you want to do better than minimum wage)
[00:25:42] <skunkworks> then you really can't compete with the board shops for quantities. I am def not up to doing something similar to what SWPadnos does.
[00:26:20] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: did you make your driver board that you designed?
[00:26:25] <jmkasunich> no
[00:26:30] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: why did?
[00:26:31] <JymmmEMC> who
[00:26:38] <jmkasunich> skunk started the design, I helped a bit
[00:26:46] <jmkasunich> he made it (because it was for his machine)
[00:27:11] <JymmmEMC> ok, but you may not want to spend $100 for testing a design like that.
[00:27:20] <skunkworks> because I am a cheap skate
[00:27:31] <JymmmEMC> might be willing to spend $30-$50 though
[00:27:46] <jmkasunich> I'm a cheap skate
[00:27:49] <JymmmEMC> when it's good to go, then hit the houses
[00:28:07] <jmkasunich> most of my projects, I only need 1 or 2 boards
[00:29:01] <JymmmEMC> well, could figure out some price that works out for both sides.... maybe $50 for up to 36 sq inches or something
[00:29:42] <jmkasunich> I have a philosophy regarding money-making side jobs
[00:29:49] <jmkasunich> never sell to people like me
[00:29:53] <JymmmEMC> lol
[00:29:57] <jmkasunich> because I'm too cheap to have as a customer
[00:30:13] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: That's ok, the dumpster love you !
[00:30:19] <JymmmEMC> plural
[00:31:19] <JymmmEMC> I know one guy that has a laser engraver, changes $1/minute and makes on avg $120 per job to students projects and the like
[00:31:32] <jmkasunich> that's fine
[00:31:35] <JymmmEMC> and is still cheaper than a commercial shop
[00:31:42] <jmkasunich> $120 per job means you have a chance to make money
[00:32:08] <jmkasunich> when people sell "real" boards for $50-100, you can't sell machined ones for $120
[00:32:17] <JymmmEMC> frm the videos of skunkworks machine, he could easily make $40/hr
[00:32:29] <jmkasunich> if you are forced to compete for the $40 jobs, you don't do so well
[00:32:47] <JymmmEMC> so you have a minimum order
[00:33:12] <jmkasunich> if people can meet minumums, they have even more reason to go to a real board shop
[00:33:41] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: you do know we're tlaking about folks other than yourself, right? ;)
[00:34:32] <JymmmEMC> Hell, skunkworks could sell to the ppl on cnczone that are being really cheap and making their own drivers
[00:38:47] <eric_u> I don't understand those people at all
[00:39:00] <eric_u> they end up spending more money than they would on geckos
[01:26:28] <Unit41> who was the uk hookup for that flexible track ?
[01:26:54] <Unit41> I need 2m 2 mod
[01:27:02] <Unit41> or maybe 1.5
[01:31:32] <Unit41> you were just a thought in your daddy's napsack when.....
[01:40:49] <tomp2> some discussion was had about wrenches. this is not a wrench, but its a damn good tool and is very well made. ive used it to squash really big cable connections, but the guy who turned me onto it used it like a channel-lock http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=783&L=1&grpID=61&ukat=iso55&ukat_code=
[01:46:39] <maddash> emc on qnx!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:47:54] <SWPadnos> why????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!222222222222222
[01:48:38] <maddash> cuz qnx is cooler than rtai!!
[01:48:50] <SWPadnos> oh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[01:48:50] <cradek> why are we yelling?
[01:49:06] <maddash> QNX just opened its source up
[01:49:09] <SWPadnos> bcuz we r haxxorz11!!!11!1!!
[01:49:15] <SWPadnos> oh, that's cool
[01:49:20] <SWPadnos> I should look at that
[01:49:32] <cradek> real open or gimmick open?
[01:50:10] <maddash> http://www.qnx.com/legal/licensing/other/source/index.html
[01:50:25] <skinnypuppy1334> I'm grinnin :o), finally got a little shop time and mounted the g203v's onto a heatsink from a Rockford Fosgate Power300 Old School
[01:51:05] <maddash> gimmick open. :(
[01:56:14] <jlmjvm_> skinnypuppy1334:did you get any motors yet?
[01:57:19] <maddash> am I obsessive if I issue `aptitude update ; aptitude upgrade` manually at least three times a day?
[01:59:02] <SWPadnos> yes
[01:59:19] <skinnypuppy1334> I was going to get some motors this week , been looking at torque graphs comparing
[02:02:44] <jlmjvm_> http://cgi.ebay.com/CNC-STEPPER-MOTOR_W0QQitemZ200151993074QQihZ010QQcategoryZ57122QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[02:04:01] <jlmjvm_> thats what i have,except single stack
[02:05:03] <skinnypuppy1334> woah are you running 1500 Oz in on x&y?
[02:05:28] <jlmjvm_> no,mine are 840 oz in
[02:06:26] <skinnypuppy1334> I can't remember is your mill a 2j manual retrofit or a boss type with emc?
[02:07:01] <jlmjvm_> it was a boss with the 2jhead
[02:07:36] <skinnypuppy1334> Are you 1:1 motor to screw ratio or other?
[02:07:43] <jlmjvm_> 1 to 1
[02:09:10] <skinnypuppy1334> I almost got these but wondered if 800 oz in would be enough.
[02:09:12] <skinnypuppy1334> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130151880631&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003
[02:11:01] <jlmjvm_> wow,says they can be used with "open loop confidence"
[02:11:12] <jlmjvm_> lol
[02:13:44] <skinnypuppy1334> I keep reading about these "missed" steps, does this affect every single move, or is it cumulative like over thousands of lines ?
[02:13:57] <SWPadnos> it's cumulative, whenever it happens
[02:14:02] <jlmjvm_> those wont have the oz in like the square powerpac motors from pacsci
[02:14:17] <SWPadnos> it probably wouldn't happen on every move unless you woefully misconfigure EMC
[02:15:05] <jlmjvm_> ive never had a problem with missed steps per say,only problem i ever had was a motor stall from the accel set too high
[02:15:20] <SWPadnos> that sounds like missed steps to me
[02:15:31] <SWPadnos> (also misconfigured :) )
[02:15:31] <skinnypuppy1334> I hope I could configure it with a dro on it....
[02:16:11] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/Master_User.lyx: doc improvements and screenshot updates
[02:16:12] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/config/ (3 files): doc improvements and screenshot updates
[02:16:45] <skinnypuppy1334> jlmjvm, how many amps total is your powersupply?
[02:16:55] <jepler> there are two main kinds of misconfiguration of stepper motors: first, incorrect step waveform timings .. e.g., direction signal not stable when it is required to be by the stepper driver. this leads to a single step being lost now and then.
[02:17:41] <jepler> second, acceleration and velocity settings that are too optimistic. this generally leads to stalls where an axis stops moving for potentially a long period of time (until emc stops or reverses it)
[02:18:17] <skinnypuppy1334> Jep, thank you for the clarification
[02:18:34] <jlmjvm_> yes jepler,thanks
[02:18:56] <jlmjvm_> i ahve been overly optimistic before
[02:19:01] <jlmjvm_> have
[02:20:12] <jlmjvm_> my ps is supposed to be 20 amps
[02:21:01] <maddash> jepler: what is "too optimistic"?
[02:21:01] <jepler> the second problem is harder to fix than the first -- in the case of step waveform, you just have to look at datasheets and enter the correct numbers -- sometimes there's a bit of math involved but that's about it. (assuming your computer doesn't have an undiagnosed Unexpected Realtime Delay problem, anyway)
[02:22:31] <jepler> but for acceleration and velocity tuning, it's very much about the worst case -- all three axes accelerating, AND high cutting forces AND you hit that rough spot on the leadscrew AND another big load turns on at just the same moment, and then (that one time in a blue moon) the machine stalls
[02:22:53] <jlmjvm_> or ferror
[02:22:55] <jepler> maddash: put simply, any acceleration or velocity setting that causes your stepper-based machine to stall and lose position
[02:23:17] <jepler> jlmjvm_: well yes but few folks with steppers have the luxury of position feedback
[02:23:56] <jlmjvm_> i just got lucky,they were mounted on my 35 dollar ebay motors
[02:24:18] <jlmjvm_> they almost went in the garbage can
[02:25:07] <jepler> now find me some nema 17 servos w/encoders for my itty bitty router
[02:25:11] <jepler> you must have the golden touch
[02:25:49] <jlmjvm_> just got lucky,that same guy had more of them a few weeks ago
[02:26:52] <jlmjvm_> motors almost got throwed away,was having problems getting them going
[02:27:15] <jlmjvm_> finally looked at the schematic and figured it out
[02:28:47] <maddash> jepler: you didn't answer my question. does "optimistic" too high or too low of a value?
[02:29:05] <jlmjvm_> the 1 im running is so much smoother,faster,and quiter than the factory motor
[02:29:18] <skinnypuppy1334> Pic of the evenings work
[02:29:19] <maddash> jepler: because if the answer includes, "too low," then it could solve my stalling bridgeport problem
[02:29:20] <skinnypuppy1334> http://imagebin.org/10455
[02:30:01] <maddash> wow, it's like watching a geico commercial
[02:30:49] <jlmjvm_> cool pic
[02:31:13] <jlmjvm_> maddash:you got a stalling bp?
[02:31:17] <maddash> jlmjvm_: yep.
[02:31:30] <maddash> jlmjvm_: I even posted the grinding sounds it makes
[02:31:41] <jlmjvm_> factory motors
[02:32:23] <jlmjvm_> or replacements?
[02:32:39] <jlmjvm_> where did you post?
[02:32:40] <maddash> factory
[02:32:53] <jlmjvm_> was it z axis?
[02:32:56] <jepler> maddash: "too high", though for full-step drives in particular there is a loss of torque at medium speeds
[02:33:04] <maddash> jlmjvm_: hold on.
[02:33:07] <jlmjvm_> k
[02:33:51] <jepler> as suggested in figure 10 on page 5 of http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/an/1679.pdf
[02:35:19] <maddash> hm, where can I upload a 11M tgz archive?
[02:35:55] <jepler> for milling machines it's unacceptable to have any parcular velocity below the velocity limit be unusable, because you'll eventually encounter that speed given lines of different angles and feed-rates
[02:39:29] <jlmjvm_> maddash:what kinda drives you got?
[02:40:07] <maddash> http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZHHYJ3L9
[02:40:36] <maddash> jlmjvm_: the original drives that came with the series I cnc? otherwise, I have no clue
[02:41:18] <jlmjvm_> ahh,thought you had geckos maybe
[02:42:13] <jlmjvm_> i know a guy not far from here that actually repairs those drives,he has 4 bp mills
[02:42:48] <jlmjvm_> my bp had been gutted when i bought it
[02:47:30] <jlmjvm_> its downloading
[03:53:32] <LawrenceG> Jymmm: hey
[04:29:28] <tomp2> vpython doesnt let you pick lines circles points, but, i found an old gCADvas.py, it does :) eg: it lets you create a bisector by selecting the 1st and 2nd construction lines http://members.localnet.com/~blanding/cadvas/ document the authors trips thru gcadvas, tkinter, et al ending up with a simpler more native, less library dependant application
[04:47:35] <notranc> notranc is now known as kc6lbj
[04:59:23] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: Yes sir?
[06:11:45] <jlmjvm_> maddash:my z axis motor used to sound like that
[06:56:09] <toast> blam
[06:57:49] <Jymmm> he's so annoying
[06:59:21] <toast> me?
[06:59:24] <toast> I CONCUR
[10:47:25] <_epineh> Hi all, I have a noob question but a quick one if any 1 has a minute...
[10:49:43] <_epineh> I am trying to program a Pluto-P with Pluto_Servo.rbf, seems to have worked, just wondering if the LED changes at all or just stays dim ?
[10:53:14] <_epineh> just wanted to check b4 I go plugging into my machine...
[14:05:42] <Adam__> happy monday
[14:06:22] <rayh> you bet -- and you.
[15:40:41] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/index.tmpl: probably meant stepconf, not stepgen
[15:55:38] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/index.tmpl: remove outdated item
[16:27:21] <LawrenceG> JymmmEMC: you up yet?
[16:30:45] <Vq^_> Vq^_ is now known as Vq^
[16:52:07] <cradek> what is the lingo for the taps with relieved leading corners that push the chip forward?
[16:52:20] <fenn> spiral point
[16:52:51] <cradek> thanks
[17:22:45] <skunkworks_> jlmjvm: how goes the new territory?
[17:23:09] <jlmjvm> pretty good
[17:23:36] <skunkworks_> I didn
[17:23:38] <skunkworks_> opps
[17:24:01] <skunkworks_> I didn't catch all of it - how is the adaptive feed going? or did you give up on that?
[17:26:02] <jlmjvm> it was trying to work,would error when you moved z+
[17:26:47] <jlmjvm> whenever alex or anyone has any ideas,im ready to test
[17:27:12] <jlmjvm> will be cool when it does
[17:28:03] <jlmjvm> did you hear the wav files that maddash uploaded of his motors?
[17:28:43] <skunkworks_> no - do you have a link?
[17:29:21] <jlmjvm> actually i closed it out last night
[17:31:51] <jlmjvm> is it a lot of trouble to put a video on youtube?
[17:34:33] <Adam_> Hello
[17:43:43] <skunkworks_> jlmjvm: no - it is really easy
[17:51:08] <skunkworks_> jlmjvm: here are some small steppers making noise http://youtube.com/watch?v=Hdhn_j6PrCw
[17:52:20] <Adam_> Question: Can I setup my m5i20 config to switch an output when the machine power is toggled from axis.ngc I cant find anything.
[17:53:09] <SWPadnos> Adam_, use halscope or halshow and look for pins named *machine*
[17:53:14] <SWPadnos> I think
[17:53:39] <SWPadnos> hmmm - no, maybe not
[17:54:27] <Adam_> yeah nothing there
[17:54:47] <SWPadnos> the pins are probably labeled estop-something
[17:54:53] <SWPadnos> (bad IMO, but oh well)
[17:57:11] <Adam_> so my estop write will output to my relay and trigger my drives
[17:57:35] <SWPadnos> I believe there are separate axis drive-enable outputs for that
[17:58:22] <SWPadnos> but if you're talking about a main contactor, then yes, you could use something from the estop chain (though it needs to be disabled in hardware if a big red button gets hit)
[17:59:11] <Adam_> # use this if you have an external estop switch
[17:59:11] <Adam_> linksp EstopSense <= m5i20.0.estop-in-not
[17:59:11] <Adam_> linksp EstopSense <= m5i20.0.in-15
[17:59:11] <Adam_> linksp EstopSense => iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in
[17:59:11] <Adam_> linksp EstopWrite => m5i20.0.out-07
[17:59:12] <Adam_> linksp EstopWrite <= iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
[17:59:16] <Adam_> thats in my hal
[17:59:37] <Adam_> estopwrite is switching my relay right now.
[17:59:50] <Adam_> estopsense to my big red button?
[18:00:12] <SWPadnos> the big red button needs to disable the relay regardless of what EMC thinks it's doing
[18:00:35] <SWPadnos> it can optionally tell EMC that the machine has been shut off :)
[18:00:53] <SWPadnos> (ie, a separate set of contacts for the input to EMC)
[18:01:03] <Adam_> what about spindle power?
[18:01:20] <Adam_> tie that to brake on my vfd
[18:01:25] <SWPadnos> that should probably be disabled by the same estop button
[18:01:56] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure which will be better for you - leaving the VFD active and braking, or cutting power to it
[18:02:16] <SWPadnos> that's a decision you'll have to make
[18:10:30] <alex_joni> usually there's a relay that cuts power, _and_ connects a braking resistor
[19:21:00] <JymmmEMC> I had a discussion about electric brakes.... add a timer relay to the REAL ESTOP circuit to engage the brake for n second sthen kill power to that too.
[19:22:49] <alex_joni> was it to yourself?
[19:23:03] <JymmmEMC> heh... no.
[19:25:58] <skunkworks_> :)
[19:27:21] <JymmmEMC> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2A561
[19:32:43] <JymmmEMC> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/6C759
[19:33:38] <SWPadnos> most brakes need power to release - they're on when there's no power so that a loss of power prevents things from moving
[19:34:10] <JymmmEMC> ah, ok
[19:35:21] <JymmmEMC> then just shunt the breaker then =)
[19:35:30] <SWPadnos> yep
[19:43:06] <alex_joni> http://www.planetamoldova.net/anim/invidia.html
[19:48:10] <tomp> http://www.planetamoldova.net/snd/hituri1/Teaser.mp3
[19:54:07] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wonders how tomp knew that features their greatest hit :)
[19:56:30] <SWPadnos> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=750SxyO2c64
[20:24:23] <Adam_> I am still having problems powering my drives up from emc with the relay
[20:24:44] <Adam_> :(
[20:33:38] <alex_joni> what kind of problems?
[20:35:44] <Adam_> well I would love to switch a relay when I toggle the machine power on in Axis, this relay would turn on my drives.
[20:36:05] <cradek> I think that's axis.N.amp-enable-out
[20:36:49] <alex_joni> right, even one is enough I bet (axis.0.amp-enable-out)
[20:37:02] <cradek> yes they all come on together
[20:39:02] <Adam_> I am searching would you know where it is
[20:39:23] <alex_joni> Adam_: you need the following in your hal file:
[20:39:41] <alex_joni> net machine-enable axis.0.amp-enable-out parport.0.pin-12-out
[20:39:49] <alex_joni> (adjust the pin number as needed)
[20:40:40] <Adam_> in m5i20_io.hal?
[20:41:04] <alex_joni> Adam_: any hal you want
[20:41:15] <alex_joni> you can also link it to a m5i20 output
[20:41:22] <alex_joni> my line was just an example
[20:41:39] <Adam_> yeah I am going to go off of the 7i37 output
[20:43:03] <SWPadnos> Adam_, if you have a 7i33 already, then there are enable outputs from that
[20:43:13] <SWPadnos> you don't have to use another I/O pin
[20:43:42] <SWPadnos> pins 13, 25, 37, and 49 are enables 0-3
[20:46:26] <Adam_> not enough voltage off that
[20:46:29] <Adam_> only 5V
[20:46:34] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[20:46:44] <Adam_> thats why the 7i37
[20:46:59] <Adam_> I am pulling 24V down
[20:47:27] <SWPadnos> ok - that makes sense
[20:47:41] <SWPadnos> a small reed relay could also do the trick
[20:48:01] <SWPadnos> (to switch a larger contactor coil)
[20:48:24] <Adam_> But I can do it by adding a line to my io hal file
[20:48:29] <SWPadnos> yep :)
[20:49:05] <Adam_> ok something like this: net machine-enable axis.0.amp-enable-out m5i20.0.out-05
[20:49:11] <Adam_> would that work?
[20:49:26] <SWPadnos> assuming the pin names are correct, yes :)
[20:49:57] <Adam_> is the => there for reference or is it required?
[20:50:03] <Adam_> "=>"
[20:50:07] <SWPadnos> visual only, not required
[20:50:13] <Adam_> ooooooooooo
[20:50:59] <Adam_> what about the "linkpp"
[20:51:12] <SWPadnos> deprecated, net replaces it
[20:51:15] <jepler> linkpp is a old, discouraged command
[20:51:21] <Adam_> thanks
[20:51:21] <alex_joni> the "=>" is for reference
[20:51:25] <alex_joni> linkpp is baad
[20:51:30] <Adam_> one sec for test
[20:51:32] <jepler> it creates confusing signals with the same name as a pin
[20:55:52] <Adam_> I love you guys
[20:56:00] <Adam_> ^ that meant it wored
[20:56:00] <SWPadnos> err - thanks
[20:56:05] <alex_joni> err.. nice
[20:56:11] <Adam_> haha
[20:56:13] <SWPadnos> yay!
[20:56:18] <alex_joni> Adam_: glad it does
[21:02:59] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:03:55] <Adam_> night
[21:04:30] <JymmmEMC> laters alex_joni
[21:09:47] <SWPadnos> see ya Alex
[21:17:59] <Adam_> anybody have exp. with anilam D-10 glass scales?
[21:21:13] <jlmjvm> SWPadnos;I have a power supply question,im looking at a 800va54v15a or a 800va63v12a power supply
[21:22:10] <jlmjvm> gonna use it on a servo setup,im thinking the 54v15a is what i need
[21:22:28] <SWPadnos> is this for the steppers or servos?
[21:22:36] <jlmjvm> servos
[21:22:46] <SWPadnos> what are the servo ratings?
[21:23:05] <SWPadnos> (I'm assuming you're using Jon's drives, so they can handle either voltage)
[21:23:10] <jlmjvm> believe they are 160v 3000 rpm electo craft
[21:23:14] <jlmjvm> g320
[21:23:31] <SWPadnos> oh, for the G320 you need the 54V if that's an AC rating
[21:23:40] <jlmjvm> dc rating
[21:23:46] <SWPadnos> ah
[21:23:53] <SWPadnos> what's the current rating of the servos
[21:24:04] <jlmjvm> the 54v has more amps than the 63v
[21:24:25] <jlmjvm> thats what i was thinking i needed
[21:24:34] <SWPadnos> better for accel, worse for top speed
[21:24:39] <jlmjvm> both are 120 dollars
[21:24:50] <SWPadnos> what current are the servos rated for (continuous)?
[21:25:02] <jlmjvm> im only gonna set this 1 up for 100 ipm
[21:25:52] <jlmjvm> or 500 rpm motor speed
[21:26:24] <jlmjvm> 54v should give me close to 1000 motor rpm
[21:26:54] <jlmjvm> dont know the continous rating off hand
[21:27:00] <SWPadnos> do you have the Ke and Kt and continuous current rating for the servos?
[21:27:06] <SWPadnos> those are what you need to choose a supply
[21:27:18] <jlmjvm> lemmee look right quick
[21:33:41] <jlmjvm> can i email ya a pdf that ec sent me
[21:33:58] <SWPadnos> err - I'd rather not get that involved :)
[21:33:58] <JymmmEMC> when you xfwd, there's no way to keep the app running, like you can with screen and connect from somewhere else and continue working is there?
[21:34:10] <SWPadnos> use xscreen
[21:34:18] <JymmmEMC> looking...
[21:34:31] <SWPadnos> or something like that - don't remember the exact name
[21:35:16] <JymmmEMC> I got window coverings, and scrn capture so far =)
[21:35:49] <SWPadnos> heh - me too. I'm pretty sure there was something called xscreen (+/- a hyphen or two) years ago
[21:35:54] <SWPadnos> it may be a dead project now though
[21:36:13] <cradek> vnc is probably the closest thing to screen for x
[21:36:50] <jepler> http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~zandy/guievict/ (from http://lists.naos.co.nz/pipermail/wellylug/2004-July/007958.html)
[21:36:54] <JymmmEMC> Hmmm, that kinda sucks when you think about it
[21:36:58] <jepler> I've never used it though
[21:37:38] <JymmmEMC> someone just said xmove
[21:38:09] <JymmmEMC> maybe not
[21:38:21] <jlmjvm> lemme write the specs down,the pdf is sideways,looks like this is a special motor
[21:38:41] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos suggests rotating the pdf
[21:39:16] <jlmjvm> just found that
[21:40:07] <jepler> tried 'System > Preferences > Remote Desktop'?
[21:40:51] <SWPadnos> the original question made me think the problem isn't seeing what's on the screen, it's leaving processes running when you disconnect from the viewer
[21:41:07] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure you can do that with remote desktop or vnc
[21:41:23] <SWPadnos> (I think remote desktop is vnc, actually)
[21:41:23] <JymmmEMC> http://freshmeat.net/projects/ratpoison/ maybe?
[21:41:29] <SWPadnos> sounds yummy
[21:41:52] <jepler> no, ratpoison is screen-like in that navigation among windows is done with keystrokes that share a common prefix
[21:42:21] <JymmmEMC> gotcha
[21:42:24] <SWPadnos> it's like a single-tasking UI fora multi-tasking OS
[21:43:35] <JymmmEMC> well, this kinda sucks... I surely thought something like this existed long ago
[21:44:30] <jlmjvm> rated voltage 45vdc,no load speed at rated voltage 1120-1360 rpm,Ke 33-39.6 vdc,no load current .7a max
[21:44:58] <jlmjvm> didnt see a Kt
[21:46:08] <jlmjvm> thought this was a 160v 3000 rpm servo
[21:46:53] <jlmjvm> glad electro craft sent me this pdf
[21:54:27] <Adam_> Hey, im just hooking up my encoders and im looking at the pin diagram for the 7i33, can someone tell me what the slashes in front of the functions indicate? (ie /ENCA0 and /ENCB0)
[21:56:15] <Adam_> my encoders have A and B channels, power and ground... do i ignore the /A and /B pins?
[21:57:34] <jepler> Adam_: some encoders have "differential outputs", others have "single ended". If your encoder has A and B but no A/ or B/ then you leave A/ and B/ disconnected on the 7i33 and I think you also set a jumper on the board to indicate "single-ended"
[21:57:54] <Adam_> oh ok, thanks
[21:58:00] <jepler> for encoders that have it, A/ is an inverted version of A, and this can improve the noise resistance of the system
[21:58:33] <Adam_> i see
[21:58:39] <jepler> the docs call this jumper the "TTL/RS-422 encoder selection" (page 2)
[22:11:57] <Adam_> ok we have counts they are just off the mark
[22:19:35] <SWPadnos> jlmjvm, I'd get a 45V supply then :)
[22:20:45] <jlmjvm> they have a 600w44v 13a model
[22:20:46] <SWPadnos> Kt may be labeled "torque constant", or there may be some rating that's torque per amp (or some torque output at a given current)
[22:27:56] <jlmjvm> SWPadnos,thanks for the input
[22:31:47] <SWPadnos> you need to know the max continuous current - that's what will determine the supply you need
[22:50:04] <skyfox00> quiet in here today...
[22:51:37] <skyfox00> does anyone know exactly what the 'emc_module_helper' (I think thats what its called) does?
[22:52:11] <jepler> yes. It checks that its arguments are appropriate, then invokes insmod or rmmod
[22:52:40] <jepler> it is "setuid root" which means that it can perform privileged actions like inserting and removing kernel modules
[22:53:15] <jepler> before emc_module_helper, you had to run emc as root or use sudo, and we considered this undesirable.
[22:54:15] <skyfox00> well, for some reason its giving me a hard time...(non-standard installation directory)
[22:54:56] <SWPadnos> the module directory is set at compile time. you can't compile in one place and copy the emc2 dir somewhere else and have it work
[22:55:33] <skyfox00> but telling the /etc/init.d/realtime script to use insmod and and rmmod seemed to fix the problem...
[22:56:42] <jepler> skyfox00: try changing the path_whitelist in src/module_helper/module_helper.c
[22:57:02] <jepler> on the other hand if using sudo or running as root all the time doesn't turn your stomach, do that instead
[22:57:32] <skyfox00> I configured emc and rtai to install to /EMC2/ to make it portable so I could compile everything (kernel+realtime+emc) all on a fast computer(1.8 Ghz) and then moved it all on my thumb drive to the slow computer (350 Mhz)
[22:59:01] <skyfox00> yeah, I do every thing as root and hardly ever use any other login...
[22:59:17] <skyfox00> * skyfox00 must be power hungry...
[23:00:53] <skyfox00> I havn't hooked up the pluto board yet, but running in simulator mode it all seems to run fine.(cpu pegs and axis display is jerkey, but no realtime errors)
[23:03:22] <skyfox00> anyway, for anyone who cares, emc2(cvs version)+rtai-3.5+linux-2.6.17(configured with the .config file from the slackware kernel) can run to some degree on slackware(11.0)
[23:04:44] <SWPadnos> fwiw, I think there were some problems with 2.6.17+RTAI - maybe that was the kernel where sometimes you get ~1000 key repeats/second sometimes
[23:05:39] <skyfox00> that would be funny(almost)
[23:07:59] <skyfox00> Well, thanks to all the people who put up with all my questions concering compiling emc2+rtai+linux kernel, etc!
[23:10:44] <skyfox00> ok, time to try the pluto...*groans*
[23:12:53] <gene> or reset, which is what i did.