#emc | Logs for 2007-09-11

[00:00:46] <eric_u> maybe that's a good thing, but I the administrator of the router should be able to tell what IP addresses it has assigned without going through page after page of logs
[00:01:25] <SWPadnos> doesn't it have a status page with "connected devices" or similar?
[00:01:35] <eric_u> can't find it
[00:03:02] <skunkworks> my netgear has 'attached devices'
[00:03:28] <SWPadnos> same with my netgear
[00:03:35] <eric_u> mine has wireless only
[00:03:37] <SWPadnos> remind me not to get a dlink next time
[00:03:40] <SWPadnos> ah
[00:03:43] <eric_u> my mill is wired and doesn't show up
[00:03:58] <SWPadnos> is it a wireless bridge, ora wireless router?
[00:04:04] <eric_u> router
[00:04:12] <eric_u> has a switch built in
[00:04:26] <SWPadnos> then why do you say it's wireless only?
[00:04:39] <eric_u> the only devices that it shows connected are wireless
[00:04:55] <eric_u> there are at least 2 wired computers that don't show on the list of connected devices
[00:05:18] <skunkworks> it will probably not show device it didn't give ip thru dhcp
[00:05:24] <skunkworks> devices
[00:05:25] <SWPadnos> are all the computers connected directly to this router, or is there another switch/rouhter in there as well
[00:05:43] <eric_u> another switch for one, the other is direct
[00:05:47] <SWPadnos> true. it should only show IPs for devices that it needs to route packets for
[00:06:58] <eric_u> I usually use DHCP, but I probably should change it for the mill, that could be a pain
[00:07:18] <maddash> what's that? CNC over TCP/IP?
[00:07:32] <eric_u> it's the new thing, haven't you heard?
[00:07:53] <maddash> what's your setup?
[00:08:12] <eric_u> which part
[00:08:33] <eric_u> I have a linux computer on the second floor, and a mill with a linux computer attached in the basement
[00:08:51] <maddash> emc in the basement, right?
[00:08:58] <eric_u> not that I would actually run the mill from the second floor, but I was thinking about it
[00:09:04] <eric_u> yes, emc in the basement
[00:09:13] <skunkworks> yep - my router will not show attached devices unless it gave the ip address. (just set my ubuntu box from static to dhcp and it showed up)
[00:09:45] <maddash> eric_u: how do you tell emc what to do? ssh tunneling (boring)? or teleop?
[00:09:47] <eric_u> just enable sshd and ssh into the mill with the command ssh -X eric_u@ and emc displays
[00:10:03] <maddash> bleh.
[00:10:07] <eric_u> works fine
[00:10:11] <maddash> 192,168.0.1134?!
[00:10:14] <fenn> teleop means coordinated jogging motion, not remote gui
[00:10:26] <jmkasunich> ewww: http://www.flickr.com/photos/blagga/371281147/
[00:10:30] <maddash> fenn: so what means remote gui?
[00:10:37] <fenn> remote gui
[00:10:50] <eric_u> I have thought of having a second computer running the gui
[00:11:00] <eric_u> don't see anything wrong with it
[00:11:04] <maddash> it would be so much more efficient
[00:11:15] <fenn> emc sends "NML commands" over a tcp socket i think
[00:11:20] <eric_u> you can do a better connection, I don't remember the details
[00:11:57] <eric_u> fenn, that sounds right
[00:11:59] <skinnypuppy1334> Yeah, I just ssh -X into my emc machine in the garrage room from the living room
[00:12:09] <maddash> on a different note, has anyone made use of my 3-point circle routine, or have I written it for nought?
[00:12:12] <skinnypuppy1334> then run emc at the command prompt
[00:12:11] <fenn> there's example .nml config files for a remote gui
[00:12:18] <maddash> skinnypuppy1334: ssh -CX is more efficient
[00:12:33] <eric_u> what's the c mean?
[00:12:46] <skinnypuppy1334> maddash that is interesting I was going to ask the same
[00:12:47] <fenn> maddash: i think its wrong, i did some test cases and got good results from half of them
[00:13:03] <maddash> fenn: where?
[00:13:14] <maddash> fenn: example .nml, I mean
[00:13:47] <fenn> emc2/configs/common/{client,server}.nml
[00:16:31] <eric_u> I don't think I would really run the mill from the upstairs computer
[00:16:54] <eric_u> If I was within earshot, maybe
[00:16:57] <maddash> cool.
[00:17:07] <skinnypuppy1334> I'm only using it sim, I wouldn't run it from remote
[00:40:13] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Thanks. Interesting, I'd like to see what the peer reviews have to say about it.
[00:41:10] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: HEY! how did you get a pic of my pc???
[00:50:38] <eric_u> I've seen some that weren't quite that bad
[00:51:16] <eric_u> I've had a few I had to take out on the deck and use about half a can of compressed air to clean out.
[00:52:18] <JymmmEMC> me, a case and a half of air =)
[01:00:46] <jmkasunich> shopvac
[01:15:16] <skunkworks> be carefull with static electricity and vacumms
[01:15:29] <toast> why
[01:38:57] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: use SCALE in preference to INPUT_SCALE for fiding smallest step size for min jog speed calculation
[02:33:05] <toast> toast is now known as toastydeath
[03:31:43] <skyfox00> who all feels like answering pluto_servo/emc2 questions?
[03:33:45] <skyfox00> ok, who doesn't?
[03:33:58] <eric_u> I can't
[03:34:08] <eric_u> what's your question?
[03:34:22] <SWPadnos> skyfox00, you missed jepler by about 45 minutes. he's the most qualified to answer pluto questions
[03:34:29] <cradek> always just ask and then hang around - sometimes it's even the next day when you get an answer
[03:34:44] <skyfox00> right, I was hopeing to catch him...
[03:35:05] <fenn> or try the mailing list
[03:35:21] <skyfox00> also, what kernel version, realtime version/flavor, etc does every one use?
[03:35:22] <SWPadnos> as cradek said, aks the question, and it's likely it'll get answered. you can search the logs for the answer if you don't want to leave an IRC client connected
[03:35:35] <SWPadnos> ask, that is
[03:35:52] <eric_u> what's wrong with leaving an IRC client connected?
[03:35:58] <cradek> nothing
[03:36:18] <SWPadnos> well, for one thing it requires you to leave a computer on, and an internet connection established
[03:36:23] <skyfox00> I am going to try to set up a dedicated emc computer and I need to know what the best linux kernel(most stable) is, etc
[03:36:26] <SWPadnos> which isn't a big deal for most of us, but could be for some
[03:36:46] <eric_u> that's not a pluto question
[03:36:53] <skyfox00> you mean people like me who put there portables to sleep when not in use?
[03:36:57] <SWPadnos> skyfox00, the best supported platform right now is Ubuntu, which you can install from a LiveCD
[03:37:21] <skyfox00> the pluto question was weather or not to buffer all inputs or just the QZx pins...
[03:37:33] <SWPadnos> you can get the liveCD from linuxcnc.org, it's already got an RT kernel
[03:37:54] <SWPadnos> if you want to be careful (read: paranoid), you should buffer everything
[03:37:59] <cradek> it can't hurt to buffer everything
[03:38:10] <SWPadnos> the pluto wasn't designed for industrial uses, it's a hobby / experimenter board
[03:38:12] <cradek> and you really want to use differential receivers in front of pluto
[03:38:30] <eric_u> how much does a pluto cost?
[03:38:34] <skyfox00> I have the ubuntu disk and when I start emc2, it runs fine for about 30-60 seconds then gives an error saying unexpected realtime delay...
[03:38:36] <SWPadnos> $60 or so
[03:38:42] <SWPadnos> or maybe $70
[03:38:53] <skyfox00> it cost me a total of $70 shipped...
[03:38:53] <eric_u> might be worth a few buffers
[03:39:32] <eric_u> realtime delay is either your mobo is funky or video drivers
[03:39:38] <SWPadnos> personally, I'm waiting for the mesa 7i43, which will connect via parallel port and/or USB, and has a much larger FPGA on it
[03:39:51] <fenn> ooo that sounds neat
[03:39:58] <eric_u> expensive though, right?
[03:39:59] <SWPadnos> and should be ~$79 or $89
[03:40:04] <SWPadnos> not bery
[03:40:07] <SWPadnos> very
[03:40:07] <eric_u> never mind
[03:40:25] <SWPadnos> I think it's supposed to be a 400k FPGA, instead of the 50k (?) on the pluto
[03:40:36] <eric_u> are you going to have to spend $70 each for the breakout boards?
[03:40:37] <SWPadnos> yep - 200k or 400k
[03:40:38] <skyfox00> pluto has 100K iirc
[03:41:13] <eric_u> skyfox, what video does your computer have?
[03:41:14] <SWPadnos> the 7i43 has some protection (like overvotage cutouts)
[03:41:18] <eric_u> what kind of mobo?
[03:41:30] <SWPadnos> it's SMI, most likely
[03:41:38] <fenn> my main beef with pluto is the altera software
[03:41:54] <SWPadnos> if it's a low power portable, it's almost sure to have power saving options turned on in the BIOS
[03:42:04] <SWPadnos> fenn, yes, that's another advantage to the 7i43
[03:42:07] <eric_u> there's a fix for that, correct?
[03:42:08] <skyfox00> one computer was an ibm thinkpad laptop and the other was a gateway m275 swivle screen laptop...
[03:42:19] <cradek> don't use laptops, they suck
[03:42:19] <eric_u> not going to work, most likely
[03:42:21] <SWPadnos> laptops suck for realtime, unless you're very lucky
[03:42:44] <cradek> did we say they suck? they suck.
[03:42:54] <eric_u> and they probably don't work either
[03:43:08] <cradek> right, most likely not
[03:43:14] <skyfox00> well, my only other option is an old pentium-2 350Mhz
[03:43:24] <cradek> that will work great
[03:43:31] <cradek> I ran my lathe on one for some time
[03:43:42] <skyfox00> with the axis interface?
[03:43:46] <eric_u> you should expect unexpected realtime delays
[03:43:47] <cradek> get 384 or 512MB in it and it'll be fine
[03:43:52] <cradek> yes with AXIS
[03:44:06] <cradek> 4G disk
[03:44:14] <skyfox00> with hardware GL?
[03:44:25] <SWPadnos> old-ish Matrox cards work great
[03:44:33] <fenn> if you're expecting them, then they arent unexpected anymore
[03:44:33] <eric_u> I ran realtime linux just fine on a 66 MHz Pentium
[03:44:44] <SWPadnos> G200 and up if you want some performance, Millennium if you don't :)
[03:44:45] <eric_u> that's what they are called though
[03:44:54] <cradek> not hardware GL. I had a PCI matrox millenium II
[03:45:05] <cradek> I recommend the mil II if you have them - jmk and I both have used them in a lot of machines
[03:45:19] <skyfox00> so then you were useing some sort of software openGL implimentation?
[03:45:25] <cradek> yes
[03:45:31] <cradek> that comes already working in ubuntu
[03:45:44] <SWPadnos> skyfox00, the pluto has 56000 gates max (that's the most any chip in that series has)
[03:45:46] <cradek> AXIS draws some lines and a tool, it works great with software GL
[03:46:16] <skyfox00> I have bad pluto documentation ;)
[03:46:19] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:46:30] <cradek> I have a matrox G450 in another emc machine and it works great too (like SWP says)
[03:46:37] <SWPadnos> 10000 gates, 56000 "system gates", 576 logic elements ... - who knows what it really has?
[03:46:49] <SWPadnos> I have a G400/G450 or two around too
[03:47:04] <SWPadnos> and an M3d if anyone wants a PCI 3D acceleration coprocessor
[03:47:57] <skyfox00> the version of emc that is on the ubuntu live cd can not recover from an epp communication error with the pluto without a reboot...
[03:48:21] <skyfox00> so I was going to try to put together a kernel/realtime/cvs-emc hack...
[03:48:40] <skyfox00> what ships with ubuntu, rtai or rtlinux?
[03:48:40] <SWPadnos> you can update emc and the RT kernel - they're just debian packages
[03:48:44] <cradek> that same ubuntu is a very good devel platform
[03:49:14] <SWPadnos> so even if the CD is outdated, you can get an update the next time packages are released, or you can use it as a platform to compile your own EMC2
[03:49:14] <eric_u> rtai
[03:49:35] <eric_u> if you update EMC, does it give you a new rt kernel?
[03:49:46] <eric_u> or is there a kernel package?
[03:49:47] <skyfox00> ubuntu is to user friendly for me, I have a hard time if I can't get under the hood and get my hands greasy...
[03:50:02] <eric_u> you don't have to use it that wa
[03:50:03] <eric_u> y
[03:50:43] <skyfox00> I'm not sure what you mean by update, I tried to update somthing once and blew up the distro...(no longer suported or somthing)
[03:51:01] <eric_u> did you install from the emc live cd?
[03:51:19] <cradek> the emc cd is just ubuntu LTS with a few packages added
[03:51:25] <cradek> the realtime kernel is a package, emc is a package
[03:51:33] <cradek> there's nothing magic about it
[03:51:33] <skyfox00> running a desktop computer on its side wont hurt it will it?
[03:51:43] <eric_u> no
[03:52:06] <skyfox00> but telling the package installer where to get packages from can be tricky...
[03:52:21] <SWPadnos> it's all set on the liveCD
[03:52:27] <SWPadnos> and there's a script on the wiki to do it for you
[03:52:51] <skyfox00> so there is a package that is the same as the cvs version?
[03:53:00] <cradek> no
[03:53:04] <SWPadnos> there are also some instructions on compiling a realtime kernel and EMC on other systems, but as I said, the best supported option will be Ubuntu
[03:54:25] <eric_u> I was looking for the update information on the wiki the other day
[03:54:36] <skyfox00> so to compile the cvs-emc2 I will need both the kernel source as well as the realtime source, right?
[03:54:37] <eric_u> my searching part of my brain is broken
[03:55:04] <skyfox00> (patched kernel source)
[03:55:19] <cradek> skyfox00: please read the docs on the wiki
[03:55:23] <eric_u> there is a kernel source package somewhere
[03:55:29] <cradek> this is all spelled out VERY well
[03:55:30] <cradek> line for line
[03:56:02] <SWPadnos> eric_u, search the wiki for installing, or click on the installing link on the main page
[03:56:15] <SWPadnos> the page name is something like "InstallingEMC2"
[03:58:21] <skyfox00> so nobody know of the top of there head the versions for a kernel/realtime pair?
[03:58:41] <eric_u> what you mean by that?
[03:59:12] <skyfox00> like: kernel, rtai 3.5, etc...
[03:59:27] <eric_u> you mean download a kernel from kernel.org and then rtai from rtai.org and then do a patch yourself?
[03:59:29] <SWPadnos> 2.6.15
[03:59:37] <SWPadnos> magma of some version ot other
[03:59:50] <skyfox00> is magma a rtai version?
[03:59:59] <SWPadnos> yes
[04:00:02] <SWPadnos> sort of
[04:00:15] <skinnypuppy1334> cradek, I got a chance to mount the r-8 er40 and it had .001 tir on the collet seat. .002 at the tool. Not too bad but I'll probably grind that seat one day on the lathe, I had made a mt5 to r-8 holder with a threaded drawbar for my 13" lathe.
[04:00:19] <eric_u> I used to be able to do the rtai patches, now it can't be done by anyone
[04:00:19] <SWPadnos> it's a series - I'm not sure which version or date it's from
[04:00:42] <eric_u> but there is a directory with the patch files in it
[04:00:51] <SWPadnos> yes there is
[04:00:53] <skyfox00> ok, I never made that conections before...
[04:01:06] <eric_u> and there are incredibly convoluted instructions included with rtai
[04:01:31] <SWPadnos> you can get magma CVS, then look at the patch files, get a vanilla kernel from kernel.org that matches one of the available patches, and try your luck
[04:01:40] <eric_u> the build process is even more convoluted
[04:01:42] <cradek> skyfox00: hmm that doesn't seem too great does it
[04:01:46] <cradek> what size tool did you test?
[04:01:54] <skyfox00> does rtai releas pre-patched kernel sources?
[04:01:57] <eric_u> no
[04:02:09] <SWPadnos> it's pretty easy to do, it's getting a working config that may not be easy - the kernel options you choose affect things a great deal
[04:02:38] <skinnypuppy1334> 3/8 and 1/2 with similar results, I'm waiting on some cosmoline to dissolve off. They are decent, not really nice
[04:02:42] <cradek> err that was for skinnypuppy1334:
[04:02:45] <SWPadnos> and there isn't a lot of (good) documentation telling you which ones you must have, which ones you must not have, and which are actually optional
[04:03:22] <skyfox00> ok, I think I am going to pull those pittmans off and install hand wheels; I have hacked kernels for several years for strange hardware, but this takes the cake.
[04:03:25] <cradek> skinnypuppy1334: it's strange that the holder seat isn't even concentric
[04:03:43] <skyfox00> cradek: I guessed as much...
[04:03:53] <eric_u> so 2.6.15 is the most recent EMC approved kernel for single processors?
[04:04:16] <skinnypuppy1334> I thought so too I figured they could hit .0005 prob china or india doesn't say
[04:05:15] <eric_u> somebody here told me they didn't have /etc/issue on their ubuntu system
[04:05:57] <SWPadnos> there's /etc/issue.net, but no /etc/issue
[04:06:15] <SWPadnos> oh wait, there it is
[04:06:44] <eric_u> I'm very proud of the fact that I can remember that file :)
[04:07:01] <SWPadnos> never heard of it, but I see what it is :)
[04:07:16] <SWPadnos> maybe I'll remember it for a few days
[04:07:20] <eric_u> very useful if you are maintaining 10 linux equipped robots
[04:08:17] <eric_u> but you only need it exactly 3 times a year, so it's nearly impossible to remember
[04:08:28] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:08:55] <skyfox00> can said robots go down chimneys in the middle of the night and install linux on winbloze computers?
[04:09:18] <eric_u> that would be cool, but wrong:)
[04:09:36] <skyfox00> I'm sure your right, but I dont know why...
[04:09:54] <eric_u> I can't even force myself to install linux on my wife and kid's computers
[04:10:25] <SWPadnos> my wife has Ubuntu now. she complains every once in a while, but for the most part it's just fine
[04:10:33] <eric_u> my wife probably wouldn't have minded if it started out that way
[04:10:37] <SWPadnos> she's been burning CDs, messing with photos, etc.
[04:10:40] <skyfox00> I guess it would be like kicking a man when he's down, poor billy would never stand a chance...
[04:10:48] <SWPadnos> the only thing missing is Corel Draw
[04:11:07] <SWPadnos> and some flash stuff
[04:11:11] <SWPadnos> and some other codecs
[04:11:26] <eric_u> I'm too stupid to get wmv's to play on linux
[04:11:41] <eric_u> I have vlc, doesn't work
[04:11:51] <skinnypuppy1334> eric you need the codec
[04:11:55] <skyfox00> thats when being able to get 'under the hood' and getting your hands greasy is usefull...
[04:12:06] <skyfox00> have you tried mplayer?
[04:12:15] <eric_u> I need the codec
[04:12:32] <SWPadnos> I've had some trouble with video as well - mplayer, totem, gxine, xine ...
[04:12:37] <skinnypuppy1334> the non free codecs, just ask in #ubuntu I use mplayer and vmplayer as well as gxine .wmv mpeg flv
[04:12:37] <skyfox00> mplayer can use windows binary codecs...
[04:12:39] <eric_u> I have some video editing program that plays them
[04:12:44] <SWPadnos> there are just some types that don't play
[04:12:55] <SWPadnos> but I haven't bothered to try figuring out the problem
[04:13:04] <SWPadnos> conelerra or Lives
[04:13:07] <SWPadnos> cinelerra
[04:13:08] <skyfox00> ffmpeg can also play most *.flv
[04:13:13] <skinnypuppy1334> I've heard there are some wmv that just don;t work though
[04:13:21] <eric_u> cinelarra sounds right
[04:13:36] <eric_u> if they have drm, they don't work
[04:13:45] <skinnypuppy1334> I've played with kino splicing flv's
[04:14:06] <eric_u> I guess cinelarra installs it's own codecs
[04:14:25] <skyfox00> my brother uses kino a lot for making video's/dvd's etc.
[04:15:25] <skinnypuppy1334> Anyone have any experience with Pacific Scientific steppers? 3-stack motor with Neodymium sounds decent
[04:15:34] <skyfox00> well, its been fun hanging out with yall, but I'm off to think about handwheels... cya!
[04:16:07] <eric_u> PacSci is good stuff
[04:16:40] <skinnypuppy1334> I'm eyeballing some for my BP clone
[04:16:51] <skinnypuppy1334> on fleebay scratchin round
[04:17:07] <eric_u> they usually go for big $
[04:17:16] <eric_u> don't see any big enough usually
[04:17:34] <eric_u> that's why I went brushless
[04:20:24] <skinnypuppy1334> eric , I'm thinking of these http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130151880631&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003
[04:22:05] <eric_u> series 1?
[04:22:31] <eric_u> sorry, forgot it was a clone
[04:23:12] <skinnypuppy1334> enco clone, that's ok
[04:23:20] <eric_u> they aren't big enough for me, but they have about 20 times the torque that the motors Jon Elson has on his bp
[04:23:42] <skinnypuppy1334> what's jon running?
[04:24:22] <eric_u> he has it on his web page, they are surplus from tape drives or something like that
[04:24:39] <SWPadnos> he doesn't use those tiny servos on BPs
[04:24:42] <fenn> copy machines
[04:24:45] <skinnypuppy1334> I'd also considered some on kelling but they are obvious stamped models. Figured real neo mag's would probably perform better than something "rated" higher
[04:24:49] <SWPadnos> they're for minimills and tabletop stuff
[04:24:58] <skinnypuppy1334> aah
[04:25:41] <SWPadnos> magnet "performance" basically means that smaller magnets give you the same magnetic field. an 800 oz-in stepper is an 800 oz-in stepper, regardless of the magnets used
[04:25:53] <SWPadnos> (there are probably shaft size / inertia differences though)
[04:25:54] <eric_u> you're going to make me look it up, aren't you?
[04:26:14] <SWPadnos> http://pico-systems.com/japservo.html
[04:26:35] <SWPadnos> note that he talks about Taig and Sherline mills there, not Brodgeports
[04:26:43] <SWPadnos> or Bridgeports
[04:27:11] <skinnypuppy1334> I could see that on a table machine
[04:27:27] <SWPadnos> I have 15 or so motors that are similar to those
[04:27:45] <fenn> swp where from?
[04:27:48] <SWPadnos> a little higher power maybe - these are 120 W or thereabouts (still with 500-cycle encoders)
[04:27:53] <SWPadnos> ebay purchase
[04:28:01] <eric_u> http://pico-systems.com/CNCconv.html
[04:28:25] <fenn> here is more info on the little motors if anyone wanted it http://fenn.dyndns.org/gingery_machines/index.php?127K9720
[04:28:27] <eric_u> "The large object in back is the DC servo motor, 1/8 Hp."
[04:29:18] <eric_u> I'm not being critical, his works, mine doesn't
[04:29:21] <SWPadnos> yes
[04:29:23] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:29:42] <SWPadnos> I shouldn't talk at all then - I only have one motor somewhat mounted on the machine ;)
[04:30:06] <fenn> that's a hefty bracket
[04:30:14] <eric_u> ooh, I'm winning, I have 2 motors mounted and one halfway mounted :)
[04:30:22] <fenn> 'first we started with a section of the titanic hull...'
[04:30:38] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:30:46] <SWPadnos> it was only 111 pounds
[04:30:55] <eric_u> it's so powerful that I don't think it would notice that the shaft is scraping on the head
[04:31:07] <SWPadnos> and now it's 48 - that must have taken a while to cut
[04:31:18] <toast> 48 what
[04:31:23] <fenn> pounds
[04:31:26] <eric_u> pounds of aluminum
[04:31:29] <fenn> steel
[04:31:31] <eric_u> on Jon Elson's mill
[04:31:45] <eric_u> that might give me nightmares
[04:31:49] <SWPadnos> right - he milled/sliced away 63 pounds of metal
[04:32:04] <eric_u> I hope he used a roughing mill for most of that
[04:32:08] <SWPadnos> which is only ~200 cubic inches, but that's still a lot
[04:32:16] <toast> horsepower?
[04:32:33] <eric_u> it's a '41 bp, how much horsepower can it have?
[04:32:38] <eric_u> 1/2?
[04:32:40] <SWPadnos> dunno - this was for the X bracket, so it was presumably before that mill was operable as a CNC
[04:32:43] <toast> oh
[04:33:12] <eric_u> the amazing thing is that he got that AB control to work
[04:34:05] <fenn> why is it amazing he got the AB control to work?
[04:34:12] <eric_u> it was surplu
[04:34:13] <eric_u> s
[04:34:42] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: thanks for the link
[04:34:58] <SWPadnos> sure - saw it on slashdot, thought you'd be interested
[04:35:27] <eric_u> "The motor is from a Hitachi mainframe-class tape drive" -- I win
[04:35:38] <fenn> arr
[04:35:49] <SWPadnos> ok - that's a different motor than the ones I was thinking of (and linked to)
[04:36:01] <SWPadnos> 1/8 HP does seem small for a BP though
[04:36:12] <eric_u> that's the x axis, biggest on the mill
[04:36:17] <Jymmm> Seems small for an electric toothbrush
[04:36:21] <SWPadnos> then again, it's an older one, and you seem to think it's got a small spindle motor
[04:36:49] <eric_u> those machines seem tiny to me
[04:36:53] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:36:57] <fenn> hm yaskawa minertia motor - they were just talking about those
[04:37:09] <SWPadnos> I've got a 1970's series 1 - it seems about the right size for my garage
[04:37:30] <eric_u> I've got an unknown vintage series II
[04:37:40] <eric_u> I like the travel, mill is too big
[04:37:56] <SWPadnos> there was some page that had year of manufacture for all the serial number ranges
[04:38:18] <eric_u> it says cncxxx on the knee
[04:38:33] <eric_u> or something like that
[04:38:56] <toast> triple distilled
[04:39:21] <eric_u> that's what you need if you try to keep the original control running xxx
[04:39:36] <eric_u> make it a double and keep 'em coming barkeep
[04:40:30] <eric_u> mine was stripped, the only thing I miss is the 13 tooth geared pulley from the z axis
[05:05:29] <fenn> postscript interpreter for emc...
[05:05:53] <fenn> * fenn giggles to himself
[05:06:50] <eric_u> I need a 30" monitor
[05:07:07] <eric_u> 22" not big enough
[05:08:03] <SWPadnos> depends on the 22" monitor, I think
[05:08:24] <eric_u> I thought they all use the same lcd
[05:08:31] <SWPadnos> nope
[05:08:44] <SWPadnos> most are 1680x1050 or if you're lucky 1920x1200
[05:08:56] <SWPadnos> I have one that's 3840x2400 resolution
[05:09:17] <eric_u> crt?
[05:09:17] <SWPadnos> it's got lots of real estate, but you need very good vision to use it (4-point type is readable)
[05:09:20] <SWPadnos> LCD
[05:09:28] <fenn> i still use 1024x768 even though the monitor can do better
[05:09:31] <eric_u> wow
[05:09:43] <eric_u> I have the 16xx version
[05:09:58] <eric_u> about right for my vision
[05:10:08] <SWPadnos> I found it on ebay for $1300 - they were $8000 when they came out ($17000 for the original IBM version)
[05:10:08] <eric_u> I still have to make most web page fonts bigger
[05:10:09] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:10:18] <SWPadnos> that's what I got for my wife - 22: 1680x1050
[05:10:21] <SWPadnos> 22"
[05:10:46] <eric_u> I should have bought a second when bestbuy had them for 190
[05:11:14] <SWPadnos> they're not much more than that anyway
[05:11:20] <eric_u> 300
[05:12:31] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009094
[05:12:33] <SWPadnos> $225
[05:12:40] <eric_u> yeah, looking at that one
[05:13:00] <eric_u> I guess some of the sales are coming because there are monitors that aren't vista certified
[05:13:13] <SWPadnos> oh no - a non-vista certified monitor. the horror!
[05:13:18] <eric_u> god forbid you should have a monitor that will display something it shouldn't
[05:13:38] <SWPadnos> that one is vista certified, so maybe you don't wnat it
[05:13:40] <SWPadnos> want
[05:15:04] <eric_u> newegg has touchscreens
[05:15:12] <eric_u> haven't seen one of those in a while
[05:15:15] <skinnypuppy1334_> I don't know if I am ready to spring for ballscrews, any of you using the regular lead screws on your mill? I'd figured on atleast antibacklashing the nuts.
[05:15:32] <SWPadnos> nope - ballscrews here
[05:15:44] <eric_u> I got ballscrews
[05:16:10] <skinnypuppy1334_> I think my screws are better than .002 per foot rolled screws. Atleast my .0005 dro thinks so
[05:17:03] <skinnypuppy1334_> ground screws look to cost half what i could buy an older cnc bp for
[05:17:44] <toast> ballscrews or leadscrews
[05:17:58] <eric_u> probably true
[05:18:18] <eric_u> did those $99 bp series I cnc that roland sold have the ballscrews?
[05:18:42] <skinnypuppy1334_> rolled hiwin look to be alittle more than a grand for XY rolled kit
[05:19:04] <SWPadnos> check out ebay seller Machine Tools Direct
[05:19:19] <SWPadnos> they have (had) BP screw sets (for manual retrofits) for ~$600
[05:19:24] <skinnypuppy1334_> and it looks like .002 per foot rating would be a step down from where I am with reg screws
[05:19:28] <SWPadnos> and they're nice screws
[05:19:58] <skinnypuppy1334_> I'll look on fleebay for him that is reasonable if the screws are good
[05:20:08] <SWPadnos> that's what I have
[05:20:28] <skinnypuppy1334_> do you have a dro to map em to ?
[05:20:32] <SWPadnos> hmmm. it looks like the new guy doesn't know much about eBay - they've only got 2 items listed
[05:20:35] <SWPadnos> no
[05:20:44] <SWPadnos> there's manufacturing test report with them though
[05:20:50] <SWPadnos> ^a
[05:21:32] <SWPadnos> they're quite good - something like 0.039 mm over the full length
[05:21:49] <eric_u> I figure a 19" monitor would work great on my mill, but they still cost $180 at newegg
[05:21:51] <SWPadnos> (I'd have to look at the report again to get the correct decimal place :) )
[05:21:56] <eric_u> might as well get a 20"
[05:22:09] <SWPadnos> or a 17" touchscreen
[05:22:13] <SWPadnos> 1280x1024
[05:22:25] <eric_u> too much money
[05:23:04] <eric_u> I have a 10" touchscreen 800x600
[05:23:19] <SWPadnos> yeah - I find 800x600 a bit too small
[05:23:25] <SWPadnos> AXIS just barely fits
[05:23:35] <skinnypuppy1334_> there is a rolled hiwin set on ebay that had my attention until seeing their .002 spec
[05:24:17] <skinnypuppy1334_> I added ebay MTD to my fav list, I'll keep an eye out
[05:24:23] <fenn> you can map it.. but i think its the noise that turns people off
[05:25:05] <eric_u> http://cgi.ebay.com/Elo-18-LCD-Flat-Panel-Touchscreen-Monitor-ET1825L-POS_W0QQitemZ170146224774QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item170146224774&_trksid=p3913.c18.m22.l1101
[05:25:18] <eric_u> "working condition unknown" == doesn't work
[05:26:22] <toast> toast is now known as toastydeath
[05:26:28] <skinnypuppy1334_> are the lcd's sized diagonally like crt stuff?
[05:26:45] <SWPadnos> yes
[05:26:47] <eric_u> yes, but it's true viewing size
[05:27:07] <eric_u> so 20" ~= 21" crt
[05:27:36] <skinnypuppy1334_> Been wanting to get a 22" since you all were mentioning it, I bet my 19" crt takes up $250 of deskspace
[05:28:11] <eric_u> yes, I now have my cpu behind my monitor, and have extra space in front
[05:28:36] <eric_u> before that was all taken up by monitor
[05:33:05] <skinnypuppy1334_> Has anyone seen anti bl nuts that are a second nut dowell aligned to the original nut and bolted with a spring or stiff bushing so as to be tight still in the worn center?
[05:33:24] <eric_u> yes
[05:33:57] <skinnypuppy1334_> thought I'd ask, I'd seen some that were threaded inside one another
[05:34:35] <eric_u> there is some guy on cnczone that uses the sprung version
[05:34:41] <eric_u> sells them that is
[05:34:50] <eric_u> mr acme?
[05:35:05] <skinnypuppy1334_> I'll poke around over there later thanks for the 411
[05:35:21] <eric_u> don't think its for bp though
[05:35:50] <skinnypuppy1334_> Just don't want to reinvent a wheel that didn't work for someone already if that had been the case
[05:36:08] <eric_u> should work,
[05:36:24] <eric_u> in fact, stock bp nuts are split iirc
[05:37:03] <toastydeath> they are
[05:37:12] <skinnypuppy1334_> hmmm mine has a tightening screw that runs radial to the motion screw
[05:38:19] <eric_u> isn't there a realtime directory somewhere on a emc ubuntu install?
[05:38:22] <skinnypuppy1334_> I've got b't .008 and .010 on xy any tighter on the adjuster just made more drag and not much less bl
[05:42:29] <SWPadnos> /usr/realtime-<something>
[05:42:39] <eric_u> thanks
[05:42:49] <SWPadnos> probably /usr/realtime-2.6.15-magma
[05:42:57] <SWPadnos> sure. good night :)
[06:06:34] <eric_u> anyone here know any hal-speak?
[06:06:48] <SWPadnos> yes, but I'm asleep
[06:07:15] <eric_u> in anders wallin's script, there is a line that says:
[06:07:20] <eric_u> linkpp iotest.in00 m5i20.0.in-00
[06:07:34] <eric_u> halcmd says it's never heard of iotest.in00
[06:07:59] <SWPadnos> where is that page?
[06:08:16] <eric_u> http://www.anderswallin.net/2007/09/pyvcp-m5i20-hostmot-4-test-panel/#comments
[06:08:33] <SWPadnos> also, are you saying that halcmd gives you an error using his pyvcp panel, or at soem other time?
[06:08:34] <eric_u> specifically http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/2007_09iotest/pyiotest.hal
[06:08:46] <eric_u> yes trying to run his panel
[06:09:38] <SWPadnos> are you using his iotest.sh script?
[06:09:52] <eric_u> no, I had to do it all manually
[06:10:22] <eric_u> his script doesn't run on my computer
[06:10:25] <SWPadnos> ok, you need to load the pyvcp panel with this line from his script: `pyvcp -c iotest iotest.xml &`
[06:10:39] <eric_u> I did that
[06:10:41] <SWPadnos> what does it d?
[06:10:42] <SWPadnos> do?
[06:10:53] <eric_u> opens up a very little window :)
[06:10:59] <SWPadnos> and you can't resize it?
[06:11:08] <eric_u> empty
[06:11:21] <SWPadnos> what version of emc do you have?
[06:11:31] <SWPadnos> (or are you using with hist stuff)
[06:11:47] <eric_u> I just updated
[06:12:09] <SWPadnos> and you've sourced the correct emc-environment script?
[06:12:18] <SWPadnos> wait - updated the packages?
[06:12:23] <eric_u> yes
[06:12:55] <eric_u> I'm done with building from cvs until I get the mill running
[06:13:03] <SWPadnos> and what error(s) do you get trying to run his script (assuming you've changed the paths that point to ~/emc2.dev/...)
[06:13:26] <eric_u> ERROR: pin 'iotest.i n00' not found
[06:13:42] <eric_u> halcmd: HAL:24: ERROR: pin 'iotest.i n00' not found
[06:13:48] <SWPadnos> is that what you get when running his script?
[06:13:58] <SWPadnos> (other than the small window)
[06:14:30] <eric_u> I was too lazy to edit his script, the commands run without paths
[06:14:57] <eric_u> so what I'm taking is that pyVCP isn't creating something?
[06:15:10] <SWPadnos> it seems that way
[06:15:30] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure that pyvcp as it exists in the packages has all the features needed by his script
[06:16:21] <eric_u> so I may have to update pyvcp?
[06:16:24] <SWPadnos> it should be there, but I don't know
[06:16:34] <SWPadnos> you may have to use CVS to get those features
[06:16:36] <SWPadnos> but I'm not sure
[06:16:43] <eric_u> ok, thanks
[06:17:34] <eric_u> I better go to sleep myself
[06:17:39] <eric_u> gnight
[06:17:54] <SWPadnos> yah
[06:18:01] <SWPadnos> one more question
[06:18:23] <SWPadnos> when you loaded the pyvcp panel manually (not with his script), did it appear as you expected?
[06:26:48] <eric_u> no
[06:27:06] <eric_u> but I just copied the line from the script
[07:39:33] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ping???
[11:37:31] <kollabierer> servus
[11:39:51] <kollabierer> nobody there ?!
[11:42:56] <fenn> wah
[11:43:22] <kollabierer> woh ?
[11:45:22] <fenn> did you have a question?
[11:46:10] <kollabierer> jup
[11:46:23] <kollabierer> I need to open gerber files (RS-274) with emc
[11:47:58] <fenn> to control a photo-plotter?
[11:48:25] <kollabierer> no, a 3-axis milling machien
[11:48:33] <fenn> you cant just open a gerber file and cut around the traces
[11:48:58] <fenn> usually people use a cam output processor in eagle
[11:49:58] <fenn> i dont know of anything that reads gerber directly and produces g-code for isolating traces
[11:50:42] <fenn> actually.. gcam might do it: http://gcam.js.cx/
[11:51:36] <kollabierer> i use altium designer and it's camtastic modul. It exports rs-274, RS-274x or Fire9000
[11:52:05] <anonimasu> kollabierer: and the problem is what again?
[11:52:13] <anonimasu> just export to rs274 and run it :)
[11:52:13] <kollabierer> and as far as I know, the basis of emcs g-code interpreter is rs-274
[11:52:40] <kollabierer> i get a lot of error messages when i try to open the rs274 file
[11:53:35] <fenn> rs274 can mean a lot of different things
[11:53:51] <kollabierer> aehem, it's a standard, isn't it ?
[11:53:53] <kollabierer> http://nopaste.php-quake.net/4387
[11:54:05] <kollabierer> that's what the file looks like
[11:54:10] <fenn> well, we all speak english but it doesnt mean we can understand each other :)
[11:55:06] <fenn> G54D9500 <- i think D9500 means diameter of the photoplotter aperture
[11:55:14] <eric_u> the great thing about standards is that there are so many versions of them
[11:56:09] <fenn> kollabierer: the problem is that milling machines can't put the copper back on
[11:56:58] <fenn> if an electronics cad progam outputs rs274 it's probably referring to the kind of code to run a photoplotter
[11:57:02] <kollabierer> i just want to cut the chips out
[11:57:43] <fenn> kollabierer: remove all the D words from that code and emc should run it fine
[11:57:58] <fenn> it just wont end up as a viable circuit board
[11:58:10] <eric_u> what's the d mean?
[11:58:16] <fenn> aperture diameter
[11:59:34] <kollabierer> ok, I give it a try
[12:01:03] <eric_u> will eagle do a conversion between someone else's gerber and gcode?
[12:02:46] <fenn> kollabierer: seriously, look at gcam
[12:03:03] <fenn> eric_u: no
[12:03:40] <eric_u> gcam does though?
[12:05:07] <kollabierer> ok, I removed the Dwords, but the there are no positioning words, so of course, emc says that they are missing
[12:05:09] <fenn> eric_u: i think so. i havent used it yet
[12:05:21] <kollabierer> there is no g01 or g00
[12:05:21] <fenn> kollabierer: type g1 at the top to see it draw something
[12:05:32] <fenn> g1 z0
[12:05:36] <kollabierer> of course, emc don't know what to do with just X or Y coordinates
[12:06:00] <fenn> heh. my g-code is a bit rusty
[12:06:06] <fenn> g1 z0 f100
[12:07:38] <kollabierer> now he says "using a D-word without using g42..."
[12:07:56] <kollabierer> and all the "playing around" doesn't make really sense
[12:08:18] <anonimasu> well, maybe you need to open the rs274-ngc spec used by emc
[12:08:47] <kollabierer> that's no real solution
[12:08:54] <fenn> oh, emc needs decimal points too
[12:08:54] <kollabierer> the aoutput is standard rs274
[12:09:00] <eric_u> it doesn't work as currently implemented
[12:09:02] <kollabierer> and emc says, it could read rs274
[12:09:05] <kollabierer> but it doesn't
[12:09:08] <anonimasu> kollabierer: RS-274NGC
[12:09:11] <fenn> rs274 is not rs274ngc
[12:09:37] <fenn> and "standard rs274" is probably not actually rs274
[12:09:50] <eric_u> and rs274 for a photoplotter only makes sense for photoplotter controls, not machine controls
[12:09:55] <anonimasu> kollabierer: you need to have a look at the spec yourself..
[12:10:23] <skunkworks> * skunkworks wonders whats going on
[12:10:30] <kollabierer> i read a lot of emc specs, and all i found is, that emx understands rs274...
[12:10:30] <skunkworks> logger_emc: bookmark
[12:10:30] <skunkworks> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-09-11.txt
[12:10:33] <anonimasu> kollabierer: here's the thing, that thing outputs X and Y coordinates but no command to move there
[12:10:41] <fenn> he's trying to import a gerber file and have emc cut the traces
[12:10:45] <eric_u> there is a post on the gcam forum from the developer that says he's working on milled circuit boards
[12:10:53] <anonimasu> and it outputs * after each line..
[12:10:57] <anonimasu> which is wrong
[12:11:08] <anonimasu> emc dosetn know about what thoose lines do because they are only coordinates
[12:11:28] <kollabierer> yes, i know that
[12:11:47] <kollabierer> but as it is gerber standard, other programs like GC-Prevue can open them without problems
[12:12:08] <anonimasu> emc supports rs274-ngc
[12:12:36] <anonimasu> and it looks like this for a linear move g1x0y1
[12:12:55] <kollabierer> do you have an spec for rs-274NGC ?
[12:12:56] <anonimasu> and that's what emc expects.
[12:13:51] <cradek> http://www.google.com/search?q=rs274ngc+spec
[12:14:15] <anonimasu> whttp://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/gcode/main/index.html
[12:16:43] <eric_u> I see the problem Gerber called their language rs274X even though they changed it considerably
[12:17:34] <fenn> it doesnt matter if it's the right language or not, the paths are all wrong
[12:17:58] <archivist> and it flashes rather than draw lines for shapes
[12:18:33] <eric_u> we all knew he needed a Gerber to gcode converter from the beginning.
[12:18:54] <eric_u> a gerber file is a positive, a milled pcb g-code is a negative
[12:19:08] <eric_u> there has to be a conversion
[12:20:33] <eric_u> http://gcam.js.cx/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=57 gcam apparently will do it now
[12:23:16] <kollabierer> but I don't want to mill the tracks
[12:23:29] <kollabierer> so i have a "negative"
[12:23:37] <eric_u> you want to mill the board, correct?
[12:23:42] <kollabierer> all I wan't to mill is the board shape
[12:23:46] <kollabierer> yeas
[12:24:07] <eric_u> you still need a conversion
[12:24:50] <eric_u> how are you going to get traces?
[12:24:56] <kollabierer> but if I export my board shape in the rs274 format, and open the file for example with GC-Prevue, it draws the lines, even the toolpaths, correctly
[12:25:13] <eric_u> because it knows gerber
[12:25:23] <kollabierer> it knows rs274
[12:25:31] <archivist> no gerber
[12:25:39] <eric_u> no, it knows rs274X
[12:25:42] <kollabierer> and alls I found is that emc also knows rs274
[12:25:45] <kollabierer> no !
[12:25:56] <kollabierer> it exports rs274 as well as 274x
[12:26:12] <kollabierer> the file i postet on nopaste is in RS274
[12:26:16] <eric_u> gcode: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-code
[12:26:25] <fenn> kollabierer: i suggest you read what we are saying rather than repeating the same thing over and over
[12:26:55] <kollabierer> I just repeat my statements because it seems that some don't understand what I mean
[12:27:15] <kollabierer> make a long story short:
[12:27:27] <kollabierer> understands EMC RS-274 ?
[12:27:32] <fenn> no
[12:29:20] <eric_u> if you look into g-code (rs274ngc) a little more, you will see that there are many incompatible versions that are infuriatingly similar, but not enough to actually work
[12:29:49] <kollabierer> so al lot of emc specs flying around are wrong
[12:29:58] <eric_u> that's just silly
[12:30:08] <kollabierer> that's bad as hell
[12:30:42] <fenn> eric_u: rs274ngc is only one dialect of g-code
[12:30:57] <eric_u> of course
[12:31:07] <fenn> it was invented for emc to try to resolve this problem
[12:31:10] <fenn> but nobody cared
[12:31:24] <archivist> dont miss three characters off a standard name (ngc) and assume its equivalent
[12:31:45] <anonimasu> kollabierer: Look, you are trying to use something made to drive a photoplotter to machine boards that's like sticking something going into the freezer into the oven instead.
[12:31:51] <kollabierer> a lot of papers I found don't tell anything about the "ngc" dialect of emc
[12:31:52] <skunkworks> kollabierer: emc2 is open source - you could write an interpriter to do what you want..
[12:31:54] <eric_u> the problem is that the rsxxx standards are rarely standards
[12:32:04] <anonimasu> kollabierer: the papers are the spec of rs274-ngc
[12:32:12] <anonimasu> g-code
[12:32:42] <anonimasu> kollabierer: best thing is to use gcam and make a toolpath with it
[12:33:02] <fenn> kollabierer: the "rs274" your cad program exports is actually "EIA RS274-D" or -X
[12:33:12] <fenn> there's a DIN number too but i forget
[12:33:31] <kollabierer> NO !
[12:33:44] <kollabierer> i can choose between RS-274 and RS-274X
[12:34:15] <eric_u> at this point, all I can say is read the source
[12:34:28] <kollabierer> and because I found a lot of papers telling me, emc understands RS-274, I thought it's a pretty shortt step
[12:34:45] <eric_u> got a link?
[12:35:00] <kollabierer> moving my code to emc and cut the boards out
[12:35:08] <fenn> eric_u: unfortunately i can see how he got that impression from a quick google search
[12:35:43] <kollabierer> so the "problem" is, that the RS-274 dialect emc understands is that different from RS-274 that ist doesn't work
[12:36:11] <fenn> yep
[12:36:27] <SWPadnos> Altium and other PCB programs output RS-274D, not RS-274NGC
[12:36:36] <fenn> but in addition to that, your file draws the traces, not the outline of the traces
[12:36:42] <SWPadnos> oh - fenn noticed that already :)
[12:37:19] <kollabierer> so I guess I#M writing an postprocessor by myself that converts the RS-274 files to RS-274NGC
[12:37:28] <eric_u> did you try gcam yet?
[12:37:31] <archivist> fenn he wants to cut the outline so thats ok
[12:37:35] <anonimasu> it shouldnt be too hard to do
[12:37:46] <fenn> archivist: how is that ok? 1 != =
[12:37:54] <fenn> er. s/=/0/
[12:38:11] <fenn> a line is not a box
[12:38:17] <archivist> normally drawn outside plus line size
[12:38:23] <SWPadnos> kollabierer, you might try starting with negative output, and tell Altium the machine is vector (I don't know if you've tried raster and vector output)
[12:39:21] <SWPadnos> but it'll still need some help - theRS274D uses D codes to "flash" pads, and that needs special treatment when converting to RS274NGC
[12:39:29] <kollabierer> Of course, It doesn't really matter, what I#M trying to mill. My Altium designer outputs waypoints. So he writes "go to X0 Y0"
[12:39:48] <kollabierer> It doesn't matter if the subscribes traces, boarders, lines or whatever
[12:40:09] <kollabierer> i made him output the shape of my boards
[12:40:15] <kollabierer> and he does it good
[12:40:21] <SWPadnos> if you use Altium to draw outlines (like milling the perimeter of a board), then it would be easier to convert to "milling G-code"
[12:40:21] <kollabierer> the problem is just the format
[12:40:42] <kollabierer> That's what I do SWPadnos
[12:40:45] <SWPadnos> ok
[12:41:10] <kollabierer> I jst thought, EMC would understand the fileformat, Altium exports.
[12:41:40] <SWPadnos> I think Jon Elson recently said that he has some utilities to convert 274D to 274NGC
[12:42:13] <fenn> i thought this sounded familiar...
[12:42:14] <SWPadnos> also, I have Altium, and I'll have a milling machine working some day, so check back - I may end up in the same situation as you and just write the interpreter myself :)
[12:42:55] <kollabierer> I'm sure, that that kind of postprocessor is really easy to write
[12:43:16] <kollabierer> in fact, I 've already written a quick and dirty version in php, just fpr testing purpose
[12:43:20] <SWPadnos> it should be, it was designed for 1970's computers
[12:43:28] <SWPadnos> cool
[12:43:31] <SWPadnos> maybe I can use yours ;)
[12:43:33] <archivist> should be, even an awk script
[12:44:35] <kollabierer> Of course, If i make one, I'll put it public
[12:44:52] <SWPadnos> a filter, so axis can load it directly ...
[12:44:58] <fenn> heh
[12:45:22] <fenn> add php to the emc requirements
[12:45:44] <fenn> once you get over the onerousness of needing X for a machine controller that is
[12:46:06] <SWPadnos> don't forget Gnome! ;)
[12:46:18] <fenn> i didnt say it :P
[12:46:21] <SWPadnos> *and* KDE - I'll make some QT thing just to be sure
[12:47:29] <fenn> qt is even piggier than gnome
[12:47:40] <fenn> but at least they dont make 500 different packages
[13:01:00] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/stepgen.9: there is no need for the 'doublestep' parameter; stepspace=0 on its own is enough. The default remains stepspace=1 (smallest nonzero step space possible)
[13:01:02] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/stepgen.c: there is no need for the 'doublestep' parameter; stepspace=0 on its own is enough. The default remains stepspace=1 (smallest nonzero step space possible)
[13:02:00] <skunkworks> recently someone added another fpga to emc - I thought but I can't find the link
[13:02:12] <skunkworks> pci card
[13:02:19] <fenn> ARCNC100 or so
[13:02:46] <fenn> http://atelierrobin.net/p41.htm
[13:03:05] <skunkworks> THank you
[13:05:03] <fenn> i guess this is windows - the fonts look ugly :) http://atelierrobin.net/arcncsw2.jpg
[13:05:35] <SWPadnos> it must be windows those are backslashes ;)
[13:06:48] <eric_u> gcam crashes pretty easily for a released project
[13:07:00] <fenn> yeah its all the C
[13:07:54] <eric_u> that's not it :)
[13:07:56] <fenn> its fairly new
[13:08:31] <eric_u> I tried to import kollabrier's code, and poof! down it goes
[13:10:12] <eric_u> easiest way to exit the program
[13:10:42] <fenn> is it a binary you downloaded?
[13:10:51] <eric_u> built from source
[13:10:57] <eric_u> just now
[13:11:00] <fenn> hm. buggy software then :)
[13:11:31] <eric_u> there were some warnings
[13:11:45] <eric_u> strange warnings
[13:12:20] <eric_u> about bad enumerated variable initializers
[13:13:08] <eric_u> warning: ISO C restricts enumer ator values to range of ‘int’
[13:16:41] <SWPadnos> there are unidentified apertures in that photoplot
[13:18:03] <SWPadnos> Altium wouldn't load it ;)
[13:18:16] <SWPadnos> (I had to define one aperture to get it to load)
[13:18:26] <SWPadnos> err - one missing aperture
[13:23:38] <fenn> now i'm thinking about how to write a gerber import filter
[13:23:57] <fenn> seems the "brute force" approach of making a bitmap would be lots easier
[13:24:07] <SWPadnos> I wouldn't think so, but maybe
[13:24:15] <SWPadnos> the hard part is the apertures
[13:24:28] <fenn> just lines to start off with
[13:24:55] <SWPadnos> there are two kinds of aperture, draw and flash. draw is easy - that's more or less like milling (the width is all that matters)
[13:24:57] <skunkworks> so - it say - go here at this diameter - then go here at this diameter?
[13:25:15] <SWPadnos> sort of
[13:25:32] <SWPadnos> it gives an XY position and a D code on every line (for the most part)
[13:26:11] <SWPadnos> I think if the D code represents a draw aperture, a line is drawn to the XY target
[13:26:26] <SWPadnos> I think if the D code represents a flash, it means move there and put the shape down
[13:26:37] <SWPadnos> like a rubber stamp
[13:26:55] <skunkworks> interesting
[13:27:16] <skunkworks> * skunkworks is glad eagle does what he needs.
[13:27:45] <SWPadnos> hmmm. ok, there isn't a D code on every line. it's like RS274NGC in that it uses the last D-code specified
[13:28:16] <SWPadnos> I wonder if that file is complete
[13:28:48] <SWPadnos> it starts with a G54, but it should start with something like "%FSLAX24Y24%"
[13:29:08] <kollabierer> are you still talking about my file?
[13:29:14] <SWPadnos> yes
[13:29:15] <SWPadnos> :)
[13:29:34] <kollabierer> GC-Prevue shows it
[13:29:51] <SWPadnos> I had an undefined aperture problem loading it into Altium
[13:30:08] <kollabierer> hm...
[13:30:57] <SWPadnos> it is strange that it starts with G54 instead of the "normal" FSLAX... line
[13:32:43] <kollabierer> i just imported it to altium camtastic. it worked
[13:33:08] <SWPadnos> try downloading it from quakenet and loading that in, rather than your local file
[13:36:44] <kollabierer> I've insert the lines from nopaste in an empty text file, importet it with Altium and it works fine
[13:37:03] <SWPadnos> strange. what version of Altium?
[13:37:23] <fenn> what license are these files provided under? http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/~checkout~/eagle/ulp/
[13:37:28] <kollabierer> 6.6
[13:37:34] <kollabierer> but should make no difference
[13:37:45] <SWPadnos> ok. I have 6.7, but I agree it shuold make no difference
[13:37:47] <SWPadnos> should
[13:39:17] <kollabierer> 6.7 ? Uuuh, youre a rich man ;)
[13:39:39] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:39:44] <SWPadnos> not any more
[13:39:46] <SWPadnos> ;)
[13:39:54] <kollabierer> oh, I see
[13:40:04] <fenn> swpadnos and his money are soon parted
[13:40:11] <SWPadnos> actually, updates have been free for the last 1.5 years or so
[13:40:35] <SWPadnos> yeah, money and I don't have a very good relationship. every time it comes over to visit, I kick it out :)
[13:41:49] <kollabierer> updates are not really a problem, but I share this PC with other peoples who work with Altium as well
[13:41:57] <kollabierer> so we don't really change something here
[13:42:37] <SWPadnos> yeah -best to leave things alone if they work
[13:43:15] <SWPadnos> I've had the program for a while, but just did my first real project with it (in the past 2 weeks), so I was able to keep up with updates without affecting anything
[13:44:52] <SWPadnos> which reminds me. I need to remember to report all the "issues" I found ;)
[13:44:54] <fenn> skunkworks: i'm not sure what that says i'm allowed to do with it
[13:45:18] <cradek> fenn: we'll fix the missing license statement
[13:45:51] <fenn> btw cradek it's kinda hard to find, even if you know what you're looking for
[13:46:10] <SWPadnos> that cuts down on silly support questions
[13:47:07] <cradek> fenn: yeah I agree, but I agree with SWP too
[13:47:15] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:47:24] <rayh> Yo! Happy day.
[13:47:31] <SWPadnos> yay!
[13:47:33] <SWPadnos> why?
[13:47:48] <SWPadnos> oh, now I get it. thanks
[13:48:23] <fenn> it's patriot day - yay!
[13:49:19] <kollabierer> SWPadnos: are you familiar with eagle ?
[13:49:20] <fenn> and on that note, i think i should go to bed
[13:49:33] <kollabierer> maybe I can use it as an postpro
[13:50:03] <SWPadnos> I don't use it, but others here do
[13:50:14] <skunkworks> kollabierer: this was make in eagle http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/top.JPG
[13:50:42] <skunkworks> don't ask me what it will import/export though
[13:51:54] <kollabierer> looks a little too "spacy" for my SMD components
[13:51:56] <kollabierer> ;)
[13:52:08] <anonimasu> no
[13:52:16] <skunkworks> heh - I have to be able to solder it with my shakey hands.
[13:52:22] <kollabierer> lol
[13:52:38] <kollabierer> I use an SMD oven
[13:59:20] <cradek> fenn: gcode.ulp fixed
[14:00:13] <anonimasu> im going to be using a frying pan
[14:00:17] <anonimasu> once my solder paste arrives
[14:01:02] <SWPadnos> hmmm. a frying pan may not be the best tool for soldering
[14:01:30] <SWPadnos> since the components (and solder paste) will be on top, and the heat will come directly from the bottom
[14:02:49] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: it seems to work well for the people that I've seen use it
[14:02:57] <SWPadnos> interesting
[14:03:02] <anonimasu> yep
[14:03:02] <fenn> supposedly it works better that way if you have plastic connectors or shiny things
[14:03:30] <SWPadnos> I'd think that the direct contact would tend to cause problems on the underside of the board, but then again, I've never tried it ;)
[14:04:06] <jepler> do you recommend teflon or cast iron?
[14:04:19] <SWPadnos> I have baked antennas in the oven before (both to solder the copper springs to the mounting studs and to heat-shrink shrouds onto them)
[14:04:24] <SWPadnos> that sure stinks if you get the oven too hot
[14:04:43] <SWPadnos> jepler, cast iron, and peanut oil
[14:04:48] <anonimasu> I have no idea
[14:04:49] <anonimasu> :P
[14:04:57] <cradek> and plenty of garlic
[14:04:58] <skunkworks> too bad those easy bake ovens have been recalled.
[14:05:04] <SWPadnos> yes, garlic is essential
[14:05:23] <SWPadnos> and a touch of Mongolian Fire Oil puts the heat in just the right places
[14:05:42] <jepler> nah, I swear by the homemade dried hot pepper flakes I got as a birthday present
[14:05:48] <jepler> mmm soo good
[14:05:48] <fenn> jepler: they suggest an electric hot plate, not an actual frying pan
[14:06:07] <SWPadnos> yummy yummy yummy: http://www.farawayfoods.com/fireoil.html
[14:06:22] <jepler> though making a hot oil is something I should try one of these days
[14:06:27] <skunkworks> I thought people like to use toaster ovens.
[14:06:42] <SWPadnos> JonE has a temperature-controlled toaster oven for that
[14:06:51] <skunkworks> yes
[14:06:54] <skunkworks> like that
[14:06:54] <fenn> skunkworks: plastic connectors like to melt, and metal connectors reflect the IR and the solder under them doesnt melt
[14:07:09] <skunkworks> so a pan is better?
[14:07:18] <SWPadnos> someone recently mentioned that PC boards are IR-transparent ;)
[14:07:28] <SWPadnos> so you can heat from the underside for troublesome components
[14:07:35] <kollabierer> ok, thanks folks, I have to go
[14:07:39] <SWPadnos> see you
[14:07:40] <fenn> skunkworks: read this http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/present.php?p=Reflow%20Skillet
[14:07:54] <fenn> SWPadnos: that is interesting indeed
[14:08:21] <fenn> unfortunately it was me who said that, so i have nowhere to go for further explanation :)
[14:08:31] <SWPadnos> so I recall :)
[14:10:36] <SWPadnos> I'd say their crappy oven experience shouldn't be taken as a definitive work on IR reflow
[14:11:01] <fenn> well no, but the hot plate idea appeals to me
[14:11:13] <fenn> thomas pfeifer has used a clothes iron successfully
[14:12:06] <fenn> http://thomaspfeifer.net/
[14:12:08] <fenn> gah
[14:12:22] <fenn> http://thomaspfeifer.net/smd_mit_buegeleisen_ausloeten.htm
[14:13:04] <fenn> anyway.. bed for real now
[14:13:15] <SWPadnos> see you later
[14:15:21] <skunkworks> night
[16:46:30] <JymmmEMC> Just FYI... Don't use teflon coated pans if you have small animals or persons with breathing difficulties. The outgas is highly toxic.
[16:52:57] <JymmmEMC> fenn: If you don't already have one, I LOVE mine http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91778
[16:53:05] <JymmmEMC> fenn: and it's on sale too
[16:56:09] <JymmmEMC> HF may be crap for tools, but ironically their electronics aren't too shabby for some odd reason. the IR Gun was great, and so was the CAN II code reader.
[18:15:01] <JymmmEMC> Oh great... It's 9/11 today *sigh*
[18:22:24] <Vq^> "great"? are you celebrating?
[18:22:51] <JymmmEMC> Not me, just gonna try to avoid all the media hype
[18:23:04] <Vq^> sounds clever
[18:30:30] <anonimasu> oh
[18:30:34] <anonimasu> I didnt notice until you said it
[18:44:49] <Vq^> * Vq^ read it in some local paper just some hour ago
[19:30:43] <alex_joni> this is nice: http://robosavvy.com/store/product_info.php/products_id/92
[19:32:25] <skunkworks> jeeze - that could waste a few months
[19:49:34] <alex_joni> yay, they release EOS 1Ds Mark III
[19:50:48] <SWPadnos> a couple of months ago, I think
[19:50:56] <alex_joni> hmm.. not in europe
[19:51:04] <SWPadnos> oh - ok then :)
[19:51:17] <alex_joni> I think that was EOS 1D Mark III
[19:51:24] <SWPadnos> could be
[19:51:28] <alex_joni> the 10 Mpixel one
[19:51:34] <alex_joni> but with 10 fps
[19:51:45] <SWPadnos> no, I think the 22MP one was out a little bit ago, but I could be mistaken
[19:51:49] <skunkworks> alex_joni: didn't you just get a nice camera?
[19:51:57] <alex_joni> skunkworks: not this nice :D
[19:52:07] <alex_joni> actually mine's good enough for me
[19:53:00] <alex_joni> hmm.. and nikon releeased one with ISO-boost up to 25600
[19:53:54] <skunkworks> I was supprised at how nice my cheap camera takes videos - good enough for youtube. :) and with sound to boot.
[19:59:04] <alex_joni> anyone heard of Viridian?
[19:59:29] <cradek> isn't that one of those addictive pain killers?
[19:59:38] <alex_joni> close enough
[19:59:44] <alex_joni> virtualisation from microsoft
[20:01:19] <alex_joni> heh http://linux-foundation.org/en/Linux_Weather_Forecast
[20:10:06] <skunkworks> cradek: the guy you gave spindle encoder info to on cnczone said this on the turbocnc list 'sorry dave and all the rest of you i just got to jumpy now i am going back to turbo on my lathe emc is to hard to change setup turbo easy thanks dave and SORRY AGAIN'
[20:10:43] <skunkworks> I would guess - he didn't want to add a real encoder to his spindle. 1 ppr is enough for anybody.
[20:10:50] <anonimasu> well, try 3d contouring
[20:10:50] <anonimasu> :)
[20:10:53] <anonimasu> with tcnc
[20:10:56] <anonimasu> yay!
[20:10:57] <anonimasu> been there done that..
[20:10:59] <cradek> wow, that's very hard to read, but I think I understand what it means
[20:11:11] <cradek> that's ok, he should do what makes him happy
[20:11:18] <anonimasu> I cut a try cutting a model rim.. :)
[20:11:49] <cradek> my bridgeport can run four blocks of gcode every second! beat that.
[20:11:51] <anonimasu> err well, try to cut a wheel(rim) model..
[20:11:51] <anonimasu> with tcnc..
[20:11:58] <anonimasu> lol
[20:12:06] <anonimasu> cradek: stock control
[20:12:06] <anonimasu> ?
[20:12:11] <cradek> yes
[20:12:17] <anonimasu> what kind?
[20:12:24] <cradek> boss 81
[20:12:31] <anonimasu> that's heidenhain right?
[20:12:34] <cradek> ~ 1984
[20:12:40] <cradek> no, it's bridgeport
[20:12:51] <anonimasu> ok.. never heard about that
[20:13:03] <cradek> they made their own at the time I guess
[20:13:22] <anonimasu> the control at work does 125 :) I think
[20:13:48] <anonimasu> going to convert it to emc?
[20:13:55] <anonimasu> or are you happy as long as it works
[20:14:12] <cradek> it's pretty clumsy to use. I'll convert it in a few months maybe.
[20:14:27] <anonimasu> err make that 200 blocks..
[20:14:35] <anonimasu> ok
[20:14:35] <cradek> the buttons are microwave membrane type buttons, and the display is 2 lines of LCD
[20:14:40] <cradek> very primitive and clumsy
[20:14:45] <anonimasu> I love the heidenhain and I wouldnt change it unless it blew up :)
[20:14:53] <cradek> "Error 0010"
[20:14:56] <cradek> "Error 0C00"
[20:15:04] <anonimasu> you getting that?
[20:15:42] <cradek> sure but I have the book and know what they mean :-)
[20:15:46] <anonimasu> hehe
[20:15:53] <cradek> that's the extent of the error reporting
[20:16:11] <anonimasu> :)
[20:16:21] <anonimasu> I really need to get my ass of the chair and fix my mill
[20:16:31] <anonimasu> make real motor mounts with gearboxes so I can cut stuff without resonance
[20:24:53] <skunkworks> Dave Kowalczyk poked his head back into the turbocnc group - saying it isn't dead. cool
[20:26:08] <cradek> * cradek preaches to the choir about free software being good
[20:26:22] <cradek> [insert standard lecture here]
[20:26:34] <jepler> you mean "Free"
[20:27:53] <cradek> sure
[20:29:20] <anonimasu> heh
[20:29:23] <anonimasu> free as in free beer
[20:30:41] <skunkworks> you can buy the source for like $60 so it is almost opensource ;)
[20:30:47] <anonimasu> HEH
[20:30:56] <anonimasu> not really
[20:31:15] <anonimasu> err remotely
[20:31:17] <cradek> uhhh
[20:31:40] <cradek> "whee the one guy showed back up so it's not dead yet!" -> not Free
[20:31:52] <jepler> DFSG-Free, GPL Free, etc, etc
[20:32:58] <skunkworks> I will never go back - you can't make me.
[20:35:57] <Dallur> For me Free as in Free Software is much more about the freedom to poke around with the software and change it if I want to, just imagine buying a lathe to find out you can't change even the smallest part of it because you will get sued :(
[20:36:44] <anonimasu> im quite happy if I can make parts actually
[20:36:52] <anonimasu> and if I dont need to fsck around to maek them..
[20:40:56] <cradek> I found that the top of the jaws on my vise aren't (at all) parallel to the base
[20:41:07] <cradek> at least the back (non-moving) jaw
[20:41:10] <anonimasu> can you adjust them?
[20:41:15] <cradek> I don't think I can recommend the cheapo enco vise
[20:41:23] <cradek> I haven't taken it apart yet
[20:41:29] <cradek> you can actually see space under one side of it
[20:41:37] <anonimasu> cradek: they usually screw the jaws in err jaw plates..
[20:41:45] <anonimasu> with a pair of bolts in the face..
[20:41:48] <anonimasu> better vises.. atleast
[20:42:01] <cradek> maybe I can loosen them and beat on the jaw while tightening?
[20:42:20] <cradek> that's easy enough
[20:42:34] <cradek> at least the base does seem pretty flat
[20:42:41] <anonimasu> hm, _maybe_
[20:42:44] <anonimasu> dont count on it
[20:42:52] <cradek> I'll blue up the surface plate while I have it off
[20:42:58] <skinnypuppy1334> is yours a 6 inch cradek?
[20:43:02] <cradek> yes
[20:43:15] <cradek> it doesn't seem quite flat while indicating it in, but that might be the mill :-/
[20:43:30] <skinnypuppy1334> I got one of those with my mill, the jaw back is held from underneath with two allen screws
[20:43:41] <anonimasu> skinnypuppy1334: ah ok
[20:43:48] <cradek> I noticed it has a piece of keystock, so it's two pieces
[20:43:55] <cradek> maybe there's crap under one side of it
[20:44:36] <skunkworks> didn't opt for a nice curt vice? ;)
[20:44:47] <skunkworks> we have a few enco ones - they do a lot of work
[20:44:55] <cradek> nope I got the $80 or so model
[20:45:05] <skinnypuppy1334> Another test is putting a dial atop the moving back half from above and adjust the lift when clamped factor on the back
[20:45:08] <cradek> yeah it seems fine, but it needs a little work
[20:45:33] <cradek> skinnypuppy1334: I don't follow
[20:45:48] <skinnypuppy1334> The back half of the vice that slides...
[20:45:51] <cradek> oh see how much the back "lifts" when you tighten it?
[20:45:58] <skinnypuppy1334> yep
[20:46:00] <cradek> oh I see
[20:46:05] <skinnypuppy1334> two allen heads in the back
[20:46:15] <skinnypuppy1334> near the handle screw
[20:47:11] <skinnypuppy1334> have a taper slide that holds it down, too tight and well slides tight, too loose lifts a bit more. I find mine needs a little tightening every few months
[20:47:49] <cradek> just needs some playing with
[20:48:22] <cradek> it already makes parts, but last night I was a little afraid of hitting the top as I cut to the left - since I was close to the jaw
[20:48:35] <cradek> it rises about .015 across the length of it!
[20:49:11] <skinnypuppy1334> woooh got some chips under there if the jaw slides are flat to the bottom of the vice
[20:49:16] <skunkworks> cradek: I can't believe how much you are using it. what the heck are you making?
[20:49:50] <cradek> I've made things I've been waiting to make
[20:50:02] <cradek> now working on a better tool post for the atlas lathe
[20:50:21] <cradek> last night, made the big steel T nut thing for underneath
[20:50:29] <skunkworks> cool
[20:50:51] <cradek> little parts like that take a surprisingly long time to get right
[20:50:57] <skinnypuppy1334> making an aloris type?
[20:50:58] <cradek> lots of setup and edge finding
[20:51:28] <cradek> skinnypuppy1334: the one that holds 4 tools at once and you can rotate it
[20:51:48] <cradek> (I'm avoiding doing dovetails so far)
[20:51:52] <skinnypuppy1334> turrets with a ballcheck are cool too
[20:52:23] <cradek> 1/2-20 bolt will hold it down
[20:52:49] <skinnypuppy1334> I've made a aloris type for my 17" lathe, haven't cut the dovetails yet, I need to get a toolholder and measure over pins ..see what to cut to
[20:53:41] <anonimasu> cradek: dovetails are a pain
[20:54:12] <skinnypuppy1334> what swing is the atlas?
[20:54:20] <anonimasu> :)
[20:54:20] <cradek> 6
[20:54:56] <skinnypuppy1334> There's a lot of time I wish I had something smaller than the 13" enco.
[20:55:43] <skinnypuppy1334> Is your lathe cnc also cradek?
[20:55:51] <cradek> not that one
[20:56:40] <skinnypuppy1334> I had been curious about doing threading on a geared head lathe, simple spindle encoder do the trick?
[20:56:49] <skinnypuppy1334> emc threading that is
[20:57:03] <cradek> sure
[20:57:07] <cradek> works great
[20:57:53] <skinnypuppy1334> Thx been focusing on the mill, got the gecko shipping confirmation yesterday so :O)
[20:59:40] <cradek> changing a K word in the gcode is easier than changing gears...
[20:59:45] <cradek> cnc lathes are great.
[21:00:44] <skinnypuppy1334> yeah I figured the box selected speed would be close and figured an encoder would be needed to be accurate though
[21:01:33] <skinnypuppy1334> yeah I got spoiled at school on the haas sl20 live tooling YEEEHHA
[22:51:28] <Martini_> Martini_ is now known as jlmjvm