#emc | Logs for 2007-09-02

[00:00:20] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:00:19] <jepler> even for itty bitty cnc machines like mine
[00:00:57] <fenn> jepler can you cut plexiglass on that?
[00:01:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> jepler: paneal are the most work and the second most rewarding
[00:01:32] <SWPadnos> when you consider that the panel is supposed to have momentary contact pushbuttons only (plus encoders), and you're supposed to have indicator lights for any mode settings, the number of I/Os grows at an alarming rate
[00:01:44] <Skullworks-PGAB> * Skullworks-PGAB can't type today
[00:01:46] <jepler> fenn: probably though I haven't cut much with it today
[00:01:55] <fenn> SWPadnos: this sounds like a job for a microcontroller
[00:02:08] <SWPadnos> only if you have a serial driver ;)
[00:02:19] <SWPadnos> jepler, does that board use DPP?
[00:02:33] <jepler> http://axis.unpy.net/01187535387 Custom USB input device with emc
[00:02:36] <jepler> SWPadnos: no, it uses USB HID
[00:02:39] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[00:02:50] <jepler> microcontroller-only firmware for avr
[00:03:22] <SWPadnos> neato
[00:03:52] <jepler> it has all the "it's not real-time" caveats, but it seems OK for many things like jogging, cycle start, and so on
[00:03:53] <fenn> well, you can do that much by hacking up a keyboard
[00:03:56] <SWPadnos> does it report USB1 speed?
[00:04:15] <jepler> SWPadnos: the 1.2 megabit/second signalling rate, I think
[00:04:25] <SWPadnos> I'd think even 12 Mb/s would be too fast to ... right
[00:05:11] <fenn> with usbtiny it should be fairly straightfoward to do bidirectional comms. and then you have to write a userspace hal driver
[00:05:26] <SWPadnos> I'll have to take a look at that code some day - that's a cool hack
[00:06:02] <jepler> fenn: yeah I looked at usbtiny too, but it didn't have HID, and I liked that HID essentially lets emc's hal_input conform to any set of inputs you care to define
[00:06:34] <fenn> yeah but you dont get any outputs like blinky lights, and no analog inputs (no?)
[00:06:55] <jepler> sure you can do analog inputs
[00:07:03] <fenn> i dont know much about HID
[00:07:18] <SWPadnos> you just have to define them as absolute coordinate linear dinguses
[00:07:22] <Skullworks-PGAB> then use this http://www.futurlec.com/PCI8255.shtml - for panel I/O
[00:07:24] <SWPadnos> axes, I gues
[00:07:43] <fenn> skullworks i think you're missing the point
[00:07:57] <Skullworks-PGAB> which is?
[00:08:08] <fenn> small cheap and flexible
[00:08:20] <Skullworks-PGAB> pick 2
[00:08:24] <fenn> no way
[00:08:32] <jepler> there are analog outputs in USB HID, but I haven't figured out how to use them at the linux input layer..
[00:09:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> panels are in a way a vanity (although improving function) thing
[00:09:41] <Skullworks-PGAB> they won't be cheap
[00:09:50] <fenn> i dont understand what the advantage is of using usb hid for this. is it so you dont have to write a usb driver for hal?
[00:10:02] <jepler> fenn: right, it means the hal driver is already done
[00:10:05] <Skullworks-PGAB> the MPG is going to cost a fair chunk of change
[00:10:15] <BOSS__> gonna reboot into windows so i can get the pics of that hurco
[00:10:31] <SWPadnos> just mount the windows partition
[00:10:39] <BOSS__> how?
[00:10:47] <SWPadnos> are you running Ubuntu?
[00:10:51] <BOSS__> yep
[00:10:57] <SWPadnos> it's probably already mounted for you then
[00:11:13] <BOSS__> i have 2 hard drives also,not dual boot
[00:11:36] <SWPadnos> do you disconnect the second one?
[00:11:48] <BOSS__> says device is not mountable
[00:11:55] <BOSS__> no
[00:12:00] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[00:12:22] <SWPadnos> I'm sure it's possible to do it, but I can't tell you how at the moment, since I'm on a Windows machine :)
[00:12:27] <SWPadnos> so see you later ;)
[00:12:44] <BOSS__> each is master on 2 diff channels,have a bios boot manager that lets me boot from either
[00:13:21] <BOSS__> ill be back,gonna put those pics on image bin for yall
[00:22:04] <JymmmEMC> Woo Hoo... SWPadnoscreated EMC2 for Windows!!!
[00:22:16] <SWPadnos> um. yay?
[00:22:36] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Eh, just somethign to say is all
[00:22:40] <SWPadnos> oh
[00:22:53] <SWPadnos> well, if you don't have anything nice to say ...
[00:24:02] <Ziegler> for windows?
[00:24:08] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: kill the bastard?
[00:24:29] <SWPadnos> ok, he's dead. what now?
[00:24:42] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: shallow grave and lime
[00:24:44] <Skullworks-PGAB> Jym - thats entrapment - you started it
[00:25:00] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: shallow grave and lime for Skullworks-PGAB
[00:25:22] <Skullworks-PGAB> Corona with lime if you please...
[00:25:37] <JymmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: not the right kind of lime =)
[00:26:16] <SWPadnos> lyme disease?
[00:26:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> I am well versed in the use of lime - 8 pigs is much faster
[00:26:32] <JymmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: for the bones?
[00:26:32] <SWPadnos> 29 palms
[00:26:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> yep - everything but the teeth
[00:26:47] <SWPadnos> 57 channels and nothin' on
[00:26:55] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: too crowded, Joshua Tree is slightly better
[00:27:25] <SWPadnos> isn't that U2?
[00:27:28] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: 29 Palms is too close to the marine base.
[00:28:12] <Skullworks-PGAB> I prefer Glamis
[00:28:33] <Skullworks-PGAB> but then I'd be in a motorhome
[00:29:02] <SWPadnos> err. I think I'll get back to work now
[00:29:10] <JymmmEMC> The problem with desert areas is the lack of numidity, potential for mumification
[00:29:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> I'd be at the bottom end of this row - Its "PAD 4" http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Brawley,CA&ll=32.922142,-115.122857&spn=0.008218,0.013175&t=k&hl=en
[00:30:40] <JymmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: too close to town
[00:31:22] <Skullworks-PGAB> its 8 miles to the nearist bar
[00:31:36] <Skullworks-PGAB> accross the sand
[00:31:44] <JymmmEMC> that's the problem, it's just too close.
[00:31:54] <Skullworks-PGAB> real fun to get there - more fun getting back
[00:32:19] <Skullworks-PGAB> going back you are driving right towards the setting sun
[00:33:24] <Skullworks-PGAB> dunes, wind, and you have to conserve fual as you will often run out just within site of camp...
[00:34:36] <JymmmEMC> oh you said motorhome, never heard of a generator?
[00:34:45] <Skullworks-PGAB> head south about 40 miles - deal with the federals in Mexico
[00:35:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> I have a very fine Onan 4.5KW
[00:36:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> but most important is a good shower after a hard days riding.
[00:45:53] <Skullworks-PGAB> http://www.skullworks.net/gabs/pics/wholecamp1b.jpg
[01:24:15] <jmkasunich> Skullworks-PGAB: what is out there that draws people?
[01:45:10] <Skullworks-PGAB> sanddunes
[01:45:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> the best dunes in the US
[01:45:41] <Skullworks-PGAB> or I wouldn't drive 1200 miles to go there
[01:46:53] <Skullworks-PGAB> - er maybe I should say the best dunes still open to the public for ORV use
[02:10:01] <toast> thundercats, ho!
[02:15:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXZjM84x_Xc&mode=related&search=
[02:19:50] <Jymmm> Skullworks-PGAB: Alright, I'm impressed!!!
[02:28:50] <Skullworks-PGAB> No - I met a retired Teamster we Call "Stan the man" he was still riding quads out there when he turned 71 - I was at the dunes for his B-day party. He said it was still his mission to teach all the grand kids the safe trails thru the dunes.
[02:28:59] <Skullworks-PGAB> He's impressive
[02:30:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> At 72 he sold off the 1964 Vette he had bought new that was still under 80,000 miles to fund building a custom sand rail for him to ride in his old age...
[02:31:13] <Skullworks-PGAB> last I heard he still goes out with the extended family at least 4 times a year to the dunes.
[02:33:01] <Jymmm> That's totally cool!
[02:33:58] <Jymmm> I met a 72old grandma that still does cross country bike trips. They always excort her,e nad she couldn't lift the bike if she needed to, but still.
[02:37:13] <fenn> er, motorcycle or bicycle?
[02:37:23] <fenn> guess that's a stupid question
[02:39:19] <Skullworks-PGAB> My grandmother was still taking cruses and skindiving in the Florida Keys @ 94 a few months before she died.
[03:07:14] <Jymmm> heh
[03:14:03] <LawrenceG> ho
[03:25:25] <fenn> let's not disrespect the dead (:
[03:33:57] <maddash> maddash is now known as chopchop
[03:34:07] <jmkasunich> hackhack
[03:34:15] <chopchop> shush
[03:34:29] <skinnypuppy1334> Anyone know what http://www.rockfordballscrew.com/ gets for a bridgeport XY ballscrew conversion?
[03:34:29] <Skullworks-PGAB> he's a chopper circuit...
[03:34:31] <chopchop> my chop chop isn't working
[03:39:39] <fenn> http://gl.ict.usc.edu/Research/3DDisplay/ well it's almost the future now i guess
[03:44:40] <SWPadnos> yeah - that's a pretty impressive demo
[03:45:11] <SWPadnos> there's actually a 3D LCD on the market now as well - uses passive polarized glasses
[03:46:28] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: one read and one blue lens by chance?
[03:46:31] <Jymmm> red
[03:46:57] <SWPadnos> no, polarized
[03:47:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: quit mucking up a good joke
[03:47:45] <SWPadnos> http://iz3d.com/index.html
[03:47:49] <SWPadnos> it wasn't that good ;)
[03:48:22] <Jymmm> Wanna impress me, make it a 3d TOUCH screen!
[03:48:47] <fenn> rgb laser beam to retina
[03:49:03] <fenn> hides the haptics hardware nicely
[03:55:38] <tomp> skinnypuppy1334: check me on this, but iirc the ballscrews from mcmastercarr are from rockford ballscrew ( and are rolled, not ground) ( both were local to me and I opted for NSK instead last project )
[03:56:03] <fenn> the cheap ones from mcmaster are from thompson i think
[03:56:38] <SWPadnos> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qflcf4h1_pU
[03:56:42] <tomp> usually mcmaster will tell you ( for a phone call )
[04:03:03] <tomp> skinnypuppy1334: in any case, those prices are similar to the rockfordballscrew prices from the rockford office. you gotta buy the screw & nut separate & by the inch and pay for the end machining ... still dirt cheap compared to star/nsk/hiwin )
[04:03:37] <tomp> dunno if other rolled screws are that cheap
[04:03:49] <fenn> there's no standard bearing sizes and lengths?
[04:04:56] <toast> on a ti calculator
[04:04:59] <toast> specifically a ti-89
[04:05:07] <toast> does anyone know how to add a number to a matrix in a sane way
[04:05:21] <tomp> yes, buy 24" or 36" etc ( but price is per inch by dia )
[04:06:39] <toast> rather, add one number to all the items in the matrix
[04:07:01] <fenn> um, stop fooling around with gimmicky gadgets and use a PC?
[04:07:10] <toast> ?
[04:07:22] <fenn> * fenn hates graphing calculators
[04:07:33] <tomp> PenCil and paper
[04:07:49] <tomp> quadrule
[04:07:51] <toast> i guess the answer is "i don't know so i'm going to give a smartass remark"
[04:07:53] <toast> ty
[04:07:57] <fenn> you can't just do B = A + 1 ?
[04:08:08] <toast> points
[04:08:15] <toast> doing operations on points and vectors
[04:08:15] <toast> in the shop
[04:08:30] <fenn> you arent making much sense
[04:08:45] <fenn> a point is a vector
[04:08:48] <toast> {{7,3},{5,2},{6,2}} + 5
[04:08:59] <toast> does not add +5 to all those numbers
[04:09:14] <fenn> try + {5,5}
[04:09:23] <toast> it gives me a dim error
[04:09:24] <SWPadnos> does it if you add {5,0}?
[04:09:29] <toast> dim error
[04:09:42] <fenn> {{5,5},{5,5},{5,5}} ?
[04:09:48] <tomp> matrix transforms ( scale rotate shift ) on points, ... the addend is not same size
[04:09:50] <SWPadnos> that's not as easy :)
[04:10:19] <SWPadnos> adding {5,5} to the array is ambiguous
[04:10:33] <SWPadnos> there's no way to tell if you want to add that to each element, or add another element
[04:10:42] <toast> i already RTFM and it's not in there
[04:10:51] <SWPadnos> it probably can't do it then
[04:10:57] <fenn> you can't add an element to an array can you? (mathematically)
[04:10:58] <toast> it can, the manual just sucks so bad
[04:11:18] <toast> it's a matrix, the rules for arithmatic are different
[04:11:22] <SWPadnos> you should be able to write a short program to do it though - loop through the vector and add the number to each element (or whetever)
[04:11:24] <tomp> scaling multiples one set, shifting adds to another set, rotation multiplies another set (of the matrix)
[04:11:23] <toast> than an array, that is
[04:12:13] <fenn> can you add two arrays together?
[04:12:14] <toast> i can
[04:12:22] <tomp> http://www.euclideanspace.com/maths/algebra/matrix/transforms/index.htm
[04:12:23] <fenn> can you fill an array with one number?
[04:12:23] <toast> i can add two matrices together, as well
[04:12:38] <SWPadnos> does the calculator have an array menu?
[04:12:49] <toast> i don't know if there's a fast way to do a new matrix filled with one number
[04:12:52] <toast> i looked, and didn't see one
[04:12:54] <toast> i will look again
[04:14:30] <tomp> http://www.tamuk.edu/math/mathclub/matrix.htm matrix math on ti89 with screen shots
[04:14:37] <SWPadnos> FWIW, it looks like my HP 28C also doesn't like to add that way
[04:15:18] <toast> ahHA
[04:15:22] <toast> apparently it's a different operator
[04:15:44] <toast> [[5,5][5,5]] .+ 5
[04:15:48] <toast> does it
[04:15:50] <toast> rather than
[04:15:52] <toast> [[5,5][5,5]] + 5
[04:16:58] <toast> .+ is the per-element operator
[04:16:58] <toast> for addition
[04:17:43] <tomp> http://www2.ohlone.edu/people2/joconnell/ti/matrixops89.pdf addition & mult on ti89 matrices
[04:17:53] <toast> ty sir
[04:20:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> Tomp: - what did the NSK screws run you?
[04:21:57] <tomp> toast: i think this is handier, tho not as visual
[04:23:14] <toast> ?
[04:23:55] <tomp> Skullworks-PGAB: i'd have to look up the part number, but was 45mmdia 5mm pitch, grade C iirc. a Z axis with near 500lbs load, for 1m/min top velocity... but it had to handle 'fretting' ( very fast small motion, EDM , where the ball wouldnt rotate a full turn for a long time )
[04:24:26] <tomp> toast: sorry, didnt paste it http://www.etsu.edu/math/gardner/2010/ti89la.pdf
[04:24:50] <Skullworks-PGAB> high pressure lube pump?
[04:25:12] <Skullworks-PGAB> 45mm dia is pretty good sized
[04:26:06] <Skullworks-PGAB> think the Hurco KM3 had 26mm on X/Y
[04:27:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> 14mm on Z
[04:27:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> driving the quill
[04:28:49] <tomp> EDM machine seen here , large dia to let force & wear be over large surface http://tag-edm.com/41/FirstCut-225amp.html
[04:32:50] <Skullworks-PGAB> wow 225 amps - it really is smokin
[04:34:03] <SWPadnos> heh. I'm working on a controller for a 20000A supply
[04:34:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> EDM?
[04:34:59] <SWPadnos> ECM
[04:35:14] <Skullworks-PGAB> ah - less wear
[04:35:24] <SWPadnos> damfino. I just do the controllers ;)
[04:47:20] <tomp> motion or power control?
[04:47:37] <SWPadnos> this is the main power supply, not the motion stuff
[04:47:58] <tomp> like 10 to 20 V dc?
[04:48:12] <SWPadnos> something like that
[04:57:53] <tomp> nice, fast removal... here's a bit o russian ecm , the biggest they have is 8000 amps http://www.pecm.ru/wiba_eng.html, and the brits dont come close to that , wicked
[05:00:05] <chopchop> arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[05:01:04] <jlmjvm> jlmjvm is now known as BOSS
[05:06:54] <tomp> couldnt remember the british ecm firm... doh! amchem!
[05:10:19] <tomp> woof, ecm up to 40000 amps at 5 to 30V ( amchem has become winbrogroup )
[05:10:25] <tomp> http://www.winbrogroup.com/ecm-forming.htm
[05:11:09] <tomp> brits just passed russia ;)
[05:50:53] <toast> RUSKIES
[07:57:01] <toast> durrr
[11:23:16] <Guest127> Hello?
[14:48:12] <JymmmEMC> mornin folks
[15:00:59] <DanielFalck> mornin JymmmEMC
[15:03:16] <JymmmEMC> How ya doin DanielFalck
[15:05:15] <JymmmEMC> Hey, for those of you playing with FPGA's.... http://www.schneier.com/paper-twofish-fpga.html
[15:05:51] <DanielFalck> JymmmEMC: doing great this morning. It's been a beautiful weekend so far
[15:06:29] <JymmmEMC> DanielFalck: Heh, you must be in the US and enjoying the 3 day holiday. Me, I have to work tonight and tomorrow.
[15:07:12] <DanielFalck> JymmmEMC: I'm up in Portland, Or. You're in Santa Rosa right?
[15:07:18] <xemet> hi
[15:07:29] <DanielFalck> xemet: hi
[15:07:30] <JymmmEMC> DanielFalck: Close, a little South... San Jose
[15:07:39] <DanielFalck> ok
[15:07:41] <xemet> anyone knows what is the max number of threads I can load with loadrt threads?
[15:08:27] <DanielFalck> xemet: sorry, I don't know
[15:09:08] <DanielFalck> JymmmEMC: do manage a data center?
[15:09:15] <xemet> do you see errors in this line?
[15:09:16] <xemet> loadrt threads name1=fastcp period1=30000 name2=slowcp period2=1000000 name3=pid-thread fp3=1 period3=500000 name4=spindle-thread fp4=1 period4=50000
[15:09:27] <JymmmEMC> DanielFalck: something like that
[15:10:37] <DanielFalck> that's why you're working then
[15:11:06] <JymmmEMC> DanielFalck: Hey, why cna't the internet take a holiday too! =)
[15:12:17] <DanielFalck> JymmmEMC: yea, tell everyone to get outside or read a book instead : )
[15:13:23] <JymmmEMC> DanielFalck: Yeah, or watch the comet this morning - only happens once every 60 years
[15:15:21] <jepler> xemet: "Unknown parameter `name4=spindle-thread'
[15:15:21] <jepler> "
[15:15:52] <jepler> xemet: looks like 'threads' creates only as many as 3 threads
[15:16:26] <jepler> this seems to be documented in 'man 9 threads'
[15:16:48] <xemet> ok sorry, didn't see it
[15:17:04] <xemet> jepler compliments for your new machine!
[15:17:35] <jepler> xemet: thanks -- I haven't actually done anything useful with it yet ..
[15:18:12] <DanielFalck> jepler: what did you get? (machine)
[15:18:25] <xemet> I know you will do incredible things with that...
[15:18:37] <xemet> I've no doubt
[15:18:48] <jepler> DanielFalck: it's a cheap router-style machine some guy is selling on ebay. called "zenbot". http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190146123259
[15:18:51] <xemet> so if one wants more threads?
[15:20:04] <jepler> DanielFalck: my notes on the machine: http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/01188441458
[15:20:26] <DanielFalck> cool
[15:21:01] <JymmmEMC> "Need a Telnet Server for Windows?" Me doing M$ for 25+ years, my only question is.... Why?
[15:21:23] <SWPadnos> xemet, you loadrt threads for 3 threads, then unloadrt threads, tehn loadrt again with 3 more threads ...
[15:21:26] <jepler> xemet: you could modify threads.c to support the number of threads you desire
[15:21:40] <jepler> SWPadnos: I tried that, but 'unloadrt threads' seems to remove the threads it created
[15:21:47] <SWPadnos> it shouldn't do that
[15:22:16] <jepler> hmmm
[15:22:35] <jepler> it would probably behave differently on rtai (I'm on sim) or if another component had been loaded
[15:22:35] <SWPadnos> AFAIK, you can't delete a thread
[15:22:43] <SWPadnos> ah, ok. sim is different ;)
[15:22:58] <jepler> on sim when the last component is unloaded, a bunch of stuff gets reset because rtapi_app exits
[15:23:24] <SWPadnos> I'm pretty sure that you can't delete an RT thread once it's created, except by unloading HAL
[15:23:45] <jepler> yeah, if i load something else before the unloadrt, it also works in sim
[15:24:11] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler; btw, is the double-speed stepping hack for step/dir going to be put in 2.2.x?
[15:24:32] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: yes I expect it will. at least two people (me and skunkworks) have had success using it.
[15:24:42] <lerneaen_hydra> ok, sweet
[15:24:43] <jepler> so this sequence works for me to get 4 threads:
[15:24:44] <jepler> loadrt and2
[15:24:45] <jepler> loadrt threads name1=fastcp period1=30000 name2=slowcp period2=1000000 name3=pid-thread fp3=1 period3=500000
[15:24:48] <jepler> unloadrt threads
[15:24:51] <jepler> loadrt threads name1=spindle-thread fp1=1 period1=50000
[15:25:03] <xemet> ok, thanks
[15:25:10] <jepler> Period FP Name (Time, Max-Time)
[15:25:09] <jepler> 60000 YES spindle-thread ( 0, 0 )
[15:25:09] <jepler> 510000 YES pid-thread ( 0, 0 )
[15:25:09] <jepler> 990000 YES slowcp ( 0, 0 )
[15:25:09] <jepler> 30000 YES fastcp ( 0, 0 )
[15:25:25] <jepler> however the period of spindle-thread is fairly different from what was requested, because it must be 2x "fastcp"
[15:25:52] <JymmmEMC> jepler: Tried TEFLON spray lube? It's a dry lube, but slick.
[15:26:04] <SWPadnos> right. be sure to load the fastest thread in the first loadrt threads
[15:26:32] <jepler> SWPadnos: the fastest is being loaded first (fastcp) but you can't have the fastest two threads be 30000 and 50000ns
[15:26:45] <jepler> since all slower threads are integer multiples of the fast threads
[15:26:53] <SWPadnos> understood. just pointing out that the first load will determine the resolution
[15:27:01] <jepler> er, "of the fastest thread"
[15:28:29] <jepler> JymmmEMC: since switching from 1/8 to 1/2 stepping made the noise level go down so much and the feedrate go up so much, I haven't been worrying about lube for the rails anymore
[15:29:15] <JymmmEMC> jepler: Ok, cool. Just one suggestion, the other was oil impregnanted bronze bearings.
[15:29:24] <jepler> (I'd still like to understand why this is the case! the received wisdom is that microstepping is better than half-stepping in all ways...)
[15:29:41] <SWPadnos> depends on the drive I guess
[15:29:47] <SWPadnos> and the motors, and the load
[15:30:45] <JymmmEMC> jepler: From my understanding, microstepping is primarily for the motors themselves to operate smoother, not anything else so much.
[15:31:04] <BOSS> isnt the new gecko stepper drive a lil of both
[15:31:44] <jepler> so I hear
[15:31:44] <JymmmEMC> BOSS: Maybe, but geckos have other thing sin them too (mid-resonance dampening), Xylotex doens't have that.
[15:32:36] <BOSS> hmmm,never had any problems
[15:32:45] <JymmmEMC> ?
[15:32:58] <xemet> thank you guys
[15:33:07] <xemet> I go now
[15:33:12] <xemet> good by
[15:33:13] <SWPadnos> see you
[15:33:15] <xemet> bye
[15:33:28] <BOSS> im gonna look at the xylotec
[15:33:49] <SWPadnos> BOSS, don't even consider it for the bridgeport conversion
[15:33:51] <anonimasu_> BOSS: Well, lots of people have had problems with them
[15:33:54] <xemet> ah, compliments to all of you that was elected on the board
[15:33:56] <JymmmEMC> BOSS: My only question is.... why?
[15:34:01] <SWPadnos> thank you
[15:34:10] <xemet> bye
[15:35:51] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: TwoFish for FPGA's baby!
[15:36:04] <SWPadnos> saw that
[15:36:22] <BOSS> why?
[15:36:32] <JymmmEMC> BOSS: why what?
[15:36:45] <SWPadnos> there's also the guy that bought a bunch of old communications hardware off eBay, and made some very fast code breaker (don't remember hich code)
[15:36:54] <SWPadnos> which code
[15:36:58] <BOSS> you said my only question is why
[15:37:17] <BOSS> didnt know what you meant
[15:37:39] <JymmmEMC> BOSS: Don't even bother looking at Xylotex is what I meant.
[15:38:09] <BOSS> k,got confused,lol
[15:38:28] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC hands BOSS a cup (pot) of coffee
[15:38:42] <SWPadnos> a cup(pot) - what a great idea
[15:38:59] <BOSS> im gonna actually get a fresh cup,brb
[15:39:06] <SWPadnos> indeed
[15:39:27] <JymmmEMC> Hmmm, I wonder if keyloggers can capture keystrokes from a dos box???
[15:40:41] <JymmmEMC> That's the only thing I've ever been concerned with using "public" computers.
[15:40:53] <anonimasu_> yes
[15:41:07] <SWPadnos> of course - they go between the keyboard and the computer
[15:41:06] <anonimasu_> they hook the input device..
[15:41:17] <anonimasu_> or do you mean dos box as computer?
[15:41:42] <JymmmEMC> Well if it was a PS/@ kybd, sure. wasn't sure with the USB kybds.
[15:41:45] <JymmmEMC> PS/2
[15:42:03] <SWPadnos> it's not all that easy to use a USB keyboard with DOS - you need BIOS support for it
[15:42:08] <anonimasu_> yep :)
[15:42:21] <SWPadnos> there's also no reason why one couldn't make a USB keylogger
[15:42:32] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Right, but there are PS/2 keylogger wedges
[15:42:50] <SWPadnos> like I said, there's no reason why one couldn't make a USB "wedge" keylogger
[15:43:09] <JymmmEMC> With USB, I wasn't sure if they were using the API, hooking intot he kybd controller or what
[15:43:29] <SWPadnos> in fact, with USB you probably don't need to. just plug the USB device into the same bus as the keyboard and I think you can see all the traffic (not sure about that though)
[15:43:43] <SWPadnos> depends on whether it's hardware or software
[15:43:55] <SWPadnos> hardware keyloggers don't care what OS you use (or if you use no OS)
[15:43:57] <JymmmEMC> Yeah, lets assume HW for the moment...
[15:44:04] <SWPadnos> software would of course care ;)
[15:44:26] <JymmmEMC> USB reuires some driver to be used, just wondering were you would hook into.
[15:44:35] <SWPadnos> the keyboard interrupt
[15:44:42] <SWPadnos> think about SideKick and other TSRs
[15:45:17] <JymmmEMC> Yeah, but is that before or after the USB crap?
[15:45:25] <SWPadnos> on DOS?
[15:45:30] <JymmmEMC> Say windows
[15:46:03] <SWPadnos> if we're talking about hardware, then this is a moot point. the logging is done before the data gets into the PC
[15:46:17] <JymmmEMC> When device manager says "Oh hey, this is a keyboard" and the kelogger says, ok windows has found an input device, I'll hook in here now TYVM
[15:46:36] <SWPadnos> and you'd have to be a pretty stupid logger designer to require a driver for your logging hardware
[15:46:40] <anonimasu_> yep
[15:46:55] <JymmmEMC> But ALL usb devices require a driver of some sort
[15:47:11] <SWPadnos> if the logger is hardware, then it goes *BETWEEN* the keyboard and the computer, or on the same electrical bus
[15:47:20] <JymmmEMC> even thumbsticks, the drive just happens to be in the OS
[15:47:27] <SWPadnos> there is no need whatsoever for any software to run on the PC
[15:47:46] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: for wedges, sure I understand that.
[15:47:58] <SWPadnos> what other kind of hardware keylogger would you bother designing?
[15:48:27] <SWPadnos> (with the possible exception of a hardware USB device that only needs to be connected to the same USB host channel, as outlined above)
[15:48:28] <JymmmEMC> Internal USB bus on the mobo, so it's not easily detected unless you open the computer
[15:49:24] <SWPadnos> if it doesn't get the data before it hits the PC, then it doesn't matter if it's a piece of hardware or not, the logging is done in software, and the storage is done in hardware
[15:49:45] <SWPadnos> basically, that's like having a software logger and a USB flash disk to store the keystrokes
[15:50:02] <jepler> the nsa probably requires that all keyboards manufactured for sale in the US have integral keystroke loggers that only they know how to read.
[15:50:14] <SWPadnos> shhh. you're not supposed to tell
[15:50:21] <anonimasu_> :D
[15:50:24] <jepler> that's just one of the reasons I use a decades-old IBM "clicky" keyboard
[15:50:34] <SWPadnos> those were the prototypes
[15:50:34] <SWPadnos> oops
[15:50:47] <JymmmEMC> jepler: I just buy $4 kybds =)
[15:50:54] <JymmmEMC> brand new =)
[15:51:07] <SWPadnos> who do you think is subsidizing them so they're only $4???
[15:51:11] <jepler> another alternative is to always destroy your keyboard before you leave, and plug in a new one when you return .. at $4 that is almost practical
[15:51:34] <JymmmEMC> jepler: What do you think the parrots are for???
[15:51:41] <SWPadnos> destroy the computer when you leave, then there's no trace
[15:52:07] <SWPadnos> and get maddash to delete all the files first
[15:52:28] <JymmmEMC> jepler: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1105/980074887_01d726bfb6.jpg
[15:53:13] <SWPadnos> 2 down, 103 to go
[15:53:32] <SWPadnos> http://www.churchofreality.org/wisdom/welcome_home/
[15:53:33] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: 28 down actually
[15:53:43] <SWPadnos> oh - I can't see what's (not) out of frame ;)
[15:54:02] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: That's just an old pic =)
[15:54:09] <SWPadnos> ah
[15:54:48] <JymmmEMC> (I removed the electronics - lead - before giving it to them to destroy)
[15:55:55] <SWPadnos> http://www.ctyme.com/intr/int-16.htm
[15:56:08] <SWPadnos> or your keyboard interrupt-reading pleasure
[15:57:29] <JymmmEMC> That's why I've been concidering dev a on-screen kybd for use by banking sites and the like. With the symbols dandomized in the screen, example:
[15:57:31] <JymmmEMC> 123
[15:57:32] <JymmmEMC> 456
[15:57:32] <JymmmEMC> 789
[15:57:37] <JymmmEMC> it might be
[15:57:39] <JymmmEMC> 258
[15:57:41] <JymmmEMC> 147
[15:57:42] <JymmmEMC> 369
[15:57:52] <SWPadnos> those exist, but aren't widely used
[15:57:53] <JymmmEMC> so the clicks are never the same
[15:58:29] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I haven't seen one yet, unfortunately
[15:58:30] <SWPadnos> part of the problem is that the legitimate user has to take more time to register where the numbers are, which gives an observer more time to observe
[15:59:06] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I think that's the least of their worries, crackers are some lazy ppl for the most part
[15:59:44] <jepler> "I don't have to run faster than the monster, I just have to run faster than you"
[15:59:56] <SWPadnos> there was an article on this a couple of years ago
[15:59:59] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:00:07] <JymmmEMC> jepler: pretty much =)
[16:54:03] <anonimasu_> hehe
[16:54:04] <anonimasu_> truer
[16:54:07] <anonimasu_> err true
[16:54:45] <fenn> truer than true
[16:54:59] <fenn> try new true 2.0
[16:55:17] <skunkworks> isn't that still in beta?
[16:56:08] <fenn> p(truer) >=1 is all that matters
[16:58:27] <Vq^> reinventing the maybe ADT are we? :)
[16:59:05] <JymmmEMC> Vq^: are we, Yes
[17:00:58] <fenn> abstract data type eh?
[17:01:13] <fenn> you better not be calling my truther abstract
[17:01:29] <JymmmEMC> fenn: No, just you.
[17:03:10] <Vq^> fenn: no, algebraic data type
[17:04:14] <fenn> those things have been around since at least the 70's anyway, its high time someone fixed it
[17:04:28] <fenn> the 1770's :)
[17:15:25] <mes1> hi al..
[17:15:27] <mes1> all
[17:15:51] <Skullworks-PGAB> howdy
[17:16:48] <mes1> what a weekend... need to get rip roaring drunk to get ove this one..
[17:18:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> won't have time for a hangover on tues morning
[17:18:39] <mes1> but hey... at least im single again..
[17:21:57] <mes1> bbl
[17:49:33] <CIA-24> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/tp.c: fix warnings about u, v, w being uninitialized
[18:02:42] <CIA-24> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/ (pluto_common.h pluto_step.comp): register I/O regions
[18:04:32] <CIA-24> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_step.comp: fix accidental commit of untested change
[18:07:08] <sed> Does the G-Rex G100/101 from Geckodrive work with EMC?
[18:07:17] <fenn> no
[18:07:38] <sed> seems like an interesting device
[18:08:58] <skunkworks_> <canned responce>anything that moves motion out of the computer isn't really a good match for emc</canned responce>
[18:09:27] <fenn> that's the official opinion at least
[18:12:10] <sed> is there any motion controller that would work wtih EMC from a lap top that does not use a parrell port?
[18:12:17] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks Well.... I might not say it exactly THAT way
[18:12:24] <SWPadnos> sed, none that I'm aware of
[18:12:36] <SWPadnos> except a PCMCIA parallel port ;)
[18:12:40] <anonimasu_> sed: laptops arent too great for realtime..
[18:12:45] <anonimasu_> quatech makes one external one
[18:12:49] <anonimasu_> I use one at work..
[18:12:55] <anonimasu_> it costs more then a normal pc :p
[18:13:00] <JymmmEMC> There are PCMCIA parallel port cards
[18:13:07] <anonimasu_> almost 300eur :)
[18:13:25] <SWPadnos> you can get external PCI backplanes that plug into PCMCIA/cardbus slots
[18:13:35] <Skullworks-PGAB> There are PCMCIA parallel port cards - and they usually work like crap
[18:13:39] <JymmmEMC> anonimasu you need to get a personal shopper
[18:13:46] <anonimasu_> the quatech ones work great..
[18:14:00] <JymmmEMC> http://sewelldirect.com/ParallelPCMCIACard.asp dual!!!
[18:14:05] <anonimasu_> Skullworks-PGAB: programming plc's and stuff with them..
[18:14:39] <Skullworks-PGAB> sure - anything that can cache & buffer is fine
[18:14:40] <JymmmEMC> oh, it's the one anonimasu talked about
[18:14:53] <sed> the mill we use now has a STG ISA card and MB's and so forth are getting harder to find, and if we ever fry the card I would want to buy somthing other than ISA
[18:15:02] <Skullworks-PGAB> but that is what EMC must avoid
[18:15:16] <SWPadnos> I think there's a PCI STG
[18:15:26] <anonimasu_> JymmmEMC: that's a odd one..
[18:15:37] <skunkworks_> there is also - vitals motion card and mesa that are pci
[18:16:12] <SWPadnos> hmmm - nope. I must have been thinking of the motenc
[18:16:30] <skunkworks_> I think you will still be able to get isa motherboards off of ebay for a long time.
[18:16:42] <sed> I was just curious if there was a ethernet or USB solution
[18:16:51] <Skullworks-PGAB> * Skullworks-PGAB wonders when someone will release a I/O board for PCI-X
[18:17:03] <sed> PCI should be wround for a while..
[18:17:28] <skunkworks_> sed: no usb - I think fenn has dreams of an ethernet solution..
[18:17:31] <sed> I guess its on its way out in lew of PCI-X
[18:17:48] <SWPadnos> but for the price of an 8-axis STG, you can buy a Mesa 5i22+two 7i33(?) motor interface cards+two 7i37 digital I/O cards, and still have a couple hundred $$ left over
[18:18:09] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Got Drivers?
[18:18:16] <SWPadnos> next week
[18:18:29] <sed> got a url for the Mesa card?
[18:18:34] <Skullworks-PGAB> and the mesa bases platform is getting alot more developer support
[18:18:37] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Alpha? Beta? RC? v1.0 ?
[18:18:39] <SWPadnos> http://www.mesanet.com
[18:18:42] <fenn> skunkworks_: i dont think USB is impossible for open loop step generation, but rt-ethernet would be a lot better
[18:19:03] <SWPadnos> during the next week or two, I'll b emaking sure he mesa driver works with the 5i22
[18:19:21] <SWPadnos> s/he/the/ (hard to type while eating a sub)
[18:19:23] <skunkworks_> fenn: I read a bit of the converstion you guys had about usb with pmnio
[18:19:41] <skunkworks_> or whatever his name is (phil
[18:19:43] <skunkworks_> )
[18:19:44] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Not trying to play devil's advocate here, but it's a legit question.
[18:19:46] <SWPadnos> pminmo
[18:20:06] <fenn> phil m in missouri
[18:20:24] <JymmmEMC> Misery
[18:21:04] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah been there done that - 6 flags over mid america
[18:21:10] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, sure, it's legitimate. the driver only needs to know (a) the PCI IDs of the 5i22, and (b) how to load the firmware. there's already a binary hostmot FPGA config for the 5i22 (though it's not in EMC yet)
[18:21:41] <SWPadnos> so it shouldn't be too hard (tm)
[18:21:55] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: famous last words =)
[18:22:03] <SWPadnos> ;)
[18:22:19] <Skullworks-PGAB> how much is the 5i22 vrs the 5i20?
[18:22:53] <SWPadnos> depends on which one you get. the 1.5M gate version is ~450 or something, the 1M gate is less, btu still in the mid-$300's
[18:22:59] <SWPadnos> vs. $200
[18:23:14] <fenn> do you really need 7i33 if you already have a 5i20?
[18:23:14] <sed> %i20 is 199 22 is 369 22-1.5 is 429
[18:23:27] <JymmmEMC> Oh gawd, why do I keep this junk?!?!?! I have 2 Intel (tm) cpu puller for 486 (?) cpu's
[18:23:28] <SWPadnos> it gives you (a) 5 to 7.5x the number of FPGA gates, adn (b) 24 additional I/Os
[18:23:58] <SWPadnos> fenn, yes. that's what converts the PWM+dir to analog +/- 10V, and has differntial receivers for the encoder inputs
[18:23:58] <fenn> that's quite an improvement then
[18:24:04] <Skullworks-PGAB> the 7i33 is the 0-10v output?
[18:24:10] <SWPadnos> lemme check
[18:24:14] <Skullworks-PGAB> analog out
[18:24:24] <SWPadnos> yes
[18:24:36] <JymmmEMC> analog and digital?
[18:24:41] <SWPadnos> and 7i37 is the 16 input + 8 output isolated I/O interface
[18:25:21] <SWPadnos> so the 5i22 with two of each gives you 8 axes analog + encoder, plus 32 digital inputs and 16 digital outptus
[18:27:41] <JymmmEMC> I like the idea od RT Ethernet as long as you could use most 10/100 cards
[18:28:09] <SWPadnos> as longas you use a spearate collision domain for the RT stuff, it works nicely
[18:28:18] <SWPadnos> gah. gotta finish eating so I can type
[18:28:28] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: switches these days are cheap.
[18:29:19] <fenn> you would probably not want to run it through a switch
[18:29:31] <SWPadnos> you can't always use switches. it must be a separate physical network
[18:29:30] <fenn> since that would add latency
[18:29:46] <JymmmEMC> fenn: Well, I guess there's a comeback to using a hub =)
[18:30:09] <SWPadnos> you can tunnel "normal" traffic on top of the RT traffic, but that makes it more complex to set up
[18:30:12] <fenn> yep or crossover cable
[18:31:02] <fenn> http://www.rts.uni-hannover.de/rtnet/ <- already has support for several popular cards
[18:31:03] <SWPadnos> with RTNet, there's no need for a switch. the nodes use TDMA (time slicing) to decide who's allowed to transmit when. there are no collisions
[18:31:05] <fenn> whatever that means
[18:31:14] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: There's a reaosn I said most common nic's, you can add a second one (if needed) and have at it on an isolated subnet.
[18:31:33] <SWPadnos> yes. I'd just amend that to say that you must add a second NIC
[18:31:39] <SWPadnos> not that you may
[18:32:53] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Well, I was assuming (like many do in here) that folks use their controller to do everything else on the same box instead of making it dedicated (which imnsho is WRONG)
[18:33:03] <SWPadnos> agreed
[18:33:21] <fenn> meh
[18:33:25] <JymmmEMC> If PC's were $10,000 ok, I understand.
[18:33:35] <fenn> if you can't spring for a $5 network card, that's just silly
[18:33:37] <Skullworks-PGAB> http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/07.08.30.OpusAkbar-X.gif
[18:33:53] <fenn> trying to squeeze two pc's into a crowded shop can be difficult
[18:34:05] <JymmmEMC> fenn: KVM
[18:34:42] <SWPadnos> the idea is that the CNC controller shouldn't need a display/mouse/keyboard
[18:34:44] <JymmmEMC> fenn: Nuf said ---> http://www.mini-itx.com/
[18:35:23] <JymmmEMC> fenn: If you can't fit this in your shop, you have bigger issues http://www.mini-itx.com/news/images/story0472-01.jpg
[18:35:41] <skunkworks_> heh - without flash installed - IE crashes out of yahoo's movie page.
[18:35:58] <SWPadnos> well, you probably can't use that one for EMC
[18:36:24] <fenn> i dont think it's small enough
[18:37:03] <anonimasu_> fenn: stop making excuses :p
[18:37:08] <JymmmEMC> Oooooooooooooooooooooh it has a Via C7 processor
[18:40:20] <Ziegler> cool
[18:40:38] <JymmmEMC> Damn, can't be used (SW snafu's still)
[18:57:35] <JymmmEMC> Heh, cool.... the state of claifornia websites cannot be found.... hopefully they took the terminator with them!
[18:57:56] <anonimasu_> :D
[19:03:12] <JymmmEMC> Anyone know Java? Google is hiring
[19:18:04] <fenn> google is always hiring
[19:21:34] <JymmmEMC> fenn: So is the Army, but...
[19:28:12] <Skullworks-PGAB> well Jym - I 43 and at that age I can't even goin NG or reserves
[19:28:51] <skunkworks_> I think about now - they may re-think your age..
[19:29:07] <JymmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: I was JUST gonna say that. Limiting the age limit
[19:29:13] <JymmmEMC> err lifting
[19:30:37] <Skullworks-PGAB> few years back I almost took a 2yr contract for a Halberton subsiderary in the sand box
[19:30:53] <SWPadnos> you'd be able to retire about now if you had
[19:30:56] <SWPadnos> and if you survived
[19:31:24] <jepler> burial is a kind of retirement
[19:31:29] <Skullworks-PGAB> it was in Rhiiad
[19:31:31] <JymmmEMC> lol @ jepler
[19:32:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> logistics coordinator - track GPS transponders
[19:32:13] <anonimasu_> lol
[19:32:43] <JymmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: High profile position if you were every to be targeted
[19:32:50] <JymmmEMC> s/every/ever/
[19:39:52] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah - kinda - it was more of an office job
[19:41:55] <Skullworks-PGAB> would have taken the deal, but I was envolved in a legal battle to get some property back and having to fly back for a court appearence would have been a real pain.
[19:45:26] <skunkworks_> jepler: cutting pcb today?
[19:46:42] <Skullworks-PGAB> http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/offbeat/2007/08/31/mennecke.oh.school.prank.ohionewsnet
[19:47:57] <jepler> skunkworks_: nah, I've just been goofing off instead
[19:49:00] <skunkworks_> heh
[21:41:53] <Ziegler> jelper... "Doubling software step rates in emc2 (Update: Now in CVS TRUNK)" step rates for a given cpu ?
[21:42:02] <Ziegler> err... capable
[21:42:28] <cradek> I think it means any machine can get about twice what it did before
[21:43:19] <Ziegler> cool
[21:43:35] <Ziegler> CVS only right now?
[21:43:40] <cradek> yes
[21:51:56] <skunkworks> ziegler: works great
[21:52:08] <Ziegler> cool
[21:52:25] <Ziegler> thats great size I am running a 450 mhz computer
[21:52:28] <Ziegler> since
[21:52:46] <skunkworks> this is running doublefreq
[21:52:47] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_OUNLruaVQ
[21:53:06] <skunkworks> what kinda period are you able to get on the 450?
[21:53:33] <Ziegler> one sec let me check... been awhile since I ran a latency test
[21:53:56] <Ziegler> wow that vid was fast
[21:56:36] <skunkworks> cradek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og6V-nS2dig
[21:56:53] <skunkworks> crappy video - but it gets the point across
[21:56:52] <Ziegler> BASE_PERIOD = 16000
[21:57:02] <skunkworks> really - jeez - that is fast
[21:57:07] <Ziegler> it is?
[21:57:22] <skunkworks> the gui is pretty snappy?
[21:57:27] <Ziegler> nooooo
[21:57:44] <Ziegler> it drags which is why I have been looking at running the GUI remotley
[21:58:51] <Ziegler> might this help the draggy gui?
[21:58:59] <skunkworks> ah - with that period you should be able to aproach 60K steps. 'aproach'
[21:59:18] <SWPadnos> well, not really
[21:59:32] <Ziegler> 0_o?
[21:59:37] <SWPadnos> remember that doublefreq needs more CPU time per interrupt
[22:00:16] <SWPadnos> also, the speedup (and CPU usage) you can expect is dependent on the minimum step pulse length of your drives
[22:00:40] <skunkworks> listen to SWPadnos :)
[22:00:50] <skunkworks> :)
[22:00:53] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:01:05] <skunkworks> hmm my smiles are not showing up here.
[22:01:11] <skunkworks> darn
[22:01:13] <SWPadnos> tey are here
[22:01:16] <SWPadnos> they
[22:01:28] <skunkworks> I may have taxed this computer making a video
[22:01:37] <Ziegler> minimum step pulse length of your drives
[22:01:52] <Ziegler> ahh... ok...
[22:02:08] <Ziegler> I had to take a few more gulps of beer before I could comprehend
[22:02:11] <SWPadnos> what drives are you using?
[22:02:13] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:02:25] <Ziegler> ahh... just a hobby cnc
[22:04:53] <Ziegler> im still trying to figure out remote gui
[22:05:20] <Ziegler> honestly havnt put much effort into it yet
[22:06:11] <Ziegler> New egg has a great price on a intel quad core that I would like to build a system around... but choosing a motherboard has got me held up
[22:06:18] <SWPadnos> it Just Works (tm) for me
[22:06:42] <Ziegler> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017
[22:07:04] <Ziegler> you got remote gui to work (not vpn or ssh x)
[22:07:06] <jmkasunich> Ziegler: wow
[22:07:13] <Ziegler> like that?
[22:07:25] <SWPadnos> remote GUI on Windows, no less
[22:07:46] <Ziegler> WHAT!?
[22:07:52] <SWPadnos> also remote GUI via NML on Linux (though that was a vouple of years ago, so I don't remember much about it)
[22:07:59] <SWPadnos> cygwin/X :)
[22:08:06] <Ziegler> ohhhh sneaky you
[22:08:23] <SWPadnos> yep. works great here. AXIS even performs acceptably well
[22:08:50] <SWPadnos> (with a celeron 500 for the machine and an athlon 1800 + MAtrox Parhelia for the remote windows machine)
[22:09:02] <SWPadnos> err - C500 for EMC ...
[22:10:03] <Ziegler> I just haven't figured out client server yet
[22:10:09] <Ziegler> er *.ini
[22:10:32] <SWPadnos> it's a simple change to the .nml file, though I don't remember what the change is :)
[22:10:44] <SWPadnos> something like changing membuf to server and adding an IP address or something
[22:10:49] <SWPadnos> like that
[22:11:37] <Ziegler> alright let me dig in and try a thing or two
[22:12:29] <Ziegler> jmkasunich: if you get a mother board picked out let me know ;-P
[22:12:40] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:12:53] <jmkasunich> Ziegler: that won't happen - I built a new system with an E6600 a few months ago
[22:13:05] <Ziegler> what was the chip cost then?
[22:13:08] <jmkasunich> I was wowing because the quad core is now only a bit more than the E6600
[22:13:14] <Ziegler> wait E is just duo right?
[22:13:19] <jmkasunich> right
[22:13:37] <jmkasunich> I didn't want to afford a quad - they were MUCH more back then
[22:13:41] <Ziegler> yeah... Its a really great price.... but I have never picked out a motherboard
[22:13:48] <SWPadnos> well, this may help speed up the conputing experience: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16896101308
[22:13:54] <Ziegler> can your board deal with quad core?
[22:14:00] <jmkasunich> I picked an intel 975XBX2, but I dunno if it does quad
[22:14:07] <Ziegler> I think it does
[22:14:11] <Ziegler> thats the intel board right?
[22:14:25] <Ziegler> I read a review where they tested it out at linuxhardware
[22:14:26] <jmkasunich> yeah
[22:14:39] <Ziegler> funny SWPadnos
[22:14:44] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:14:51] <Ziegler> any kegerators on there?
[22:14:58] <SWPadnos> dunno - never look
[22:15:04] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos doesn't like beer
[22:15:22] <SWPadnos> man - 500GB hard drives for $109
[22:15:30] <SWPadnos> well, $110
[22:16:04] <SWPadnos> now there's a hard choice: 500GB hard drive or Windows Vista 32-bit Home Premium edition for ~$110
[22:16:34] <Ziegler> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og6V-nS2dig << nice vid just saw it found myslef blowing on the screen to get the dust out of the way
[22:16:51] <Ziegler> (bad habit)
[22:17:24] <skunkworks> heh - I wonder how many people are going to get vertigo from it ;)
[22:17:44] <SWPadnos> it's the Blair CNC Project!!!
[22:18:58] <Ziegler> I need to re-do this: http://images.myonlinesite.com/cnc/use/20070830/videos.html Not enough movement to be able to tell something is happening
[22:19:10] <Ziegler> sounds good though (thanks again jepler)
[22:21:36] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?IRCquotes
[22:22:32] <Ziegler> ohhh noooo
[22:22:52] <Ziegler> hehe
[22:22:54] <skunkworks> that is the first time I have actually heard daizy cool
[22:22:59] <Ziegler> that really came out wrong
[22:23:53] <Ziegler> yeah... my kids like the song
[22:24:45] <Ziegler> guys at work think I have to much time on my hands... luckily I can point to someone else as the creator of it!
[22:25:27] <Ziegler> <sudo_maddash> oh shit, smoke is pouring out of the stepper board
[22:25:26] <Ziegler> <a-l-p-h-a> uh... why are you telling us, and not doing something about it
[22:25:28] <Ziegler> hehe
[22:32:56] <Skullworks-PGAB> (nagging question) why does the text in the wiki header (yellow area) disappear on mouse over, and not come back...
[22:34:36] <Skullworks-PGAB> and I waited till that brief moment when Alex was out of the room to ask...
[22:35:10] <SWPadnos> um - because your browser is screwed up?
[22:35:28] <SWPadnos> it doesn't do that for me, unless you're talking about some text I don't see at all
[22:35:34] <skunkworks> It is an IE thing
[22:35:52] <skunkworks> The comment was - get a real browser ;)
[22:36:10] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah I figured - since it does it on multible PC's
[22:36:34] <Skullworks-PGAB> what Idiot Experiment 6 isn't good enough?
[22:36:52] <SWPadnos> no, you need Idiot Experiment 7
[22:37:22] <SWPadnos> and then you need FireFox so you can view important web pages correctly
[22:37:24] <Skullworks-PGAB> * Skullworks-PGAB has enough system issues allready
[23:05:45] <Ziegler> anyone know how to do a search and replace in VIM ?
[23:05:53] <Ziegler> if not I am googleing it as we speak
[23:06:52] <Ziegler> nvm
[23:07:36] <lerneaen_hydra> Ziegler; which app did you use to generate the gcode file that plays music
[23:07:54] <Ziegler> I didnt generate it... jepler made it by hand
[23:07:59] <lerneaen_hydra> ah, I see
[23:08:24] <Ziegler> although I have thinking about a simple program to generate it in his formate
[23:08:27] <Ziegler> format
[23:08:58] <Ziegler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/daisy.ngc
[23:11:36] <Ziegler> He did a great job with it....
[23:12:36] <Ziegler> does not seem like it would be hard to code up another song
[23:13:55] <Ziegler> I just realized it was for 4 axis... I need to add the other stepper for effect
[23:13:57] <skunkworks> I think it was cradek
[23:14:02] <Ziegler> oh was it?
[23:14:10] <Ziegler> my fault cradek
[23:14:17] <skunkworks> jepler is cool and all - but I don't think he is musical ;)
[23:14:30] <lerneaen_hydra> 'night all
[23:14:45] <Ziegler> night
[23:21:19] <Ziegler> alright with the client server setup the nml server file says : "Start emc2 normally, and then run the GUI client"
[23:21:50] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:22:36] <SWPadnos> I think when that comment was written, starting EMC normally meant running it from a command line (which probably isn't necessary, but will give you any debugging output)
[23:23:06] <Ziegler> how do I start the emc "server"
[23:23:22] <Ziegler> and should I just comment out the gui I have in my configs?
[23:23:44] <SWPadnos> no - the emc run script needs a display program
[23:24:12] <SWPadnos> just run emc with a GUI for now - you can have more than one running at a time
[23:47:30] <Ziegler> does keystick count?
[23:47:47] <Ziegler> The object here is to be able to remove X from the slow machine
[23:47:52] <SWPadnos> sure
[23:47:53] <Ziegler> or at least not run it
[23:48:12] <SWPadnos> all UIs connect to the machine controller the same way, via NML. keystick is included
[23:48:38] <Ziegler> so I can have UI keystick on the server, and axis on the client?
[23:48:44] <SWPadnos> sure
[23:51:04] <SWPadnos> yay! they took my offer for a quad lab power supply :)
[23:56:19] <skunkworks> congrats
[23:56:29] <SWPadnos> oh - thanks
[23:56:29] <Skullworks-PGAB> you buying - or bidding on building form them?
[23:57:02] <SWPadnos> I was realizing that I don't have a standard triple-output supply here
[23:57:05] <SWPadnos> buying
[23:57:38] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=330133767614
[23:58:04] <Skullworks-PGAB> * Skullworks-PGAB keeps buying parts, but never gets around to putting anything togather.
[23:58:13] <SWPadnos> my only other bench power supply is a 60V 18A beast
[23:58:27] <Skullworks-PGAB> thats nice
[23:58:28] <SWPadnos> this is a piece of test equpment, not something for the milling machine :)
[23:59:05] <SWPadnos> this is something for the milling machine: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=110080947943