#emc | Logs for 2007-09-01

[00:24:08] <skunkworks> finally friday
[00:28:21] <toast> serious business
[00:34:00] <fenn> its an extended relief period for the wage slaves, in honor of their daily sacrifice to our reptilian overlords
[00:37:15] <skunkworks> reptilian? monkeys I think..
[00:58:37] <maddash> hey ho
[00:59:13] <fenn> gee this 3 points to make a circle is harder than it sounds
[00:59:28] <skunkworks> I bet
[00:59:35] <fenn> not too hard, just a lot of algebra
[00:59:45] <skunkworks> I like the 4 touch - center - center
[00:59:49] <maddash> er, no it's not
[01:00:17] <maddash> fenn: what are you have to evaluating for?
[01:01:45] <fenn> eh? there was a mailing list post, some guy wants to probe 3 points and define his offset based on the center of the hole
[01:02:02] <fenn> well, he wants a lot more than that, but its a starting point
[01:02:20] <maddash> psht. trivial. got a link?
[01:04:14] <fenn> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/3267
[01:04:38] <maddash> rofl "gentlemen"
[01:04:58] <jmkasunich> fenn - it's just simultaneous equations
[01:05:08] <jmkasunich> three equations, three unknowns
[01:05:29] <maddash> 'i want to probe bosses'? is that some obscure innuendo?
[01:05:36] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[01:05:43] <fenn> only if you want it to be
[01:07:22] <lerman> JUST three quadratic equations in thre unknowns :-(
[01:07:31] <maddash> 'quadratic'? wtf?
[01:07:38] <maddash> it's all linear
[01:07:49] <maddash> you're calculating the center of the circle from 3 points, right?
[01:08:09] <lerman> The center AND the radius.
[01:08:23] <maddash> the radius is trivial once you have the center
[01:08:53] <maddash> (and the center is trivial, too). what's not trivial is optimization of a routine that does this.
[01:09:25] <lerman> (xn-xc)^2 +(yn-yc)^2 = r^2 for n=1,2,3 where xc, yc is the center and r the radius.
[01:09:36] <jmkasunich> right
[01:09:39] <maddash> err
[01:10:34] <maddash> that's how the routine's going to do it?
[01:10:56] <jmkasunich> no, that's the problem that the routine needs to solve
[01:11:17] <maddash> doesn't the routine just need to calculate the intersection of some lines?
[01:11:24] <maddash> why complicate things?
[01:11:45] <jmkasunich> 'splain it to me
[01:11:46] <maddash> i must be missing something
[01:12:11] <lerman> Nah. Since we get to choose the points, it is easier. Move to the approximate center. Probe left and right. Then the Xc is midway between those two values.
[01:12:11] <maddash> jmkasunich: suppose you have 3 points, (x_{1-3}, y{1-3})
[01:12:41] <maddash> jmkasunich: er, suppose you have 3 points, p{1-3}
[01:12:58] <lerman> Go there. Then do the same thing probing up and down to get Yc. Of course you did and extra probe, but not a big deal.
[01:13:38] <jmkasunich> the accuracy will degrade a bit if you start off center, but the accuracy of the three point solution can degrade too if you choose bad points
[01:13:52] <maddash> jmkasunich: iff (2 f's) they're cocircular, then the intersection of the { perpendicular bisector of p1 and p2 } and the {perpendicular bisector of p2 and p3 } i the center of the circle.
[01:14:22] <lerman> Actually, or equations get a lot simpler to solve once we found Xc.
[01:14:38] <jmkasunich> maddash: hmm, I think your solution works pretty well
[01:14:43] <lerman> Yes, maddash is correct. That's a good way to do it.
[01:14:51] <jmkasunich> actually, that way degrades too
[01:15:02] <maddash> only insofar as your fpu degrades
[01:15:07] <jmkasunich> I think
[01:15:07] <fenn> i think maddash cheated and used google :)
[01:15:31] <maddash> * maddash thinks that maddash took sequential two in high school
[01:15:39] <maddash> :P
[01:16:11] <toast> you can also keep adding points w/ maddash's way
[01:16:14] <lerman> As long as you have points that are distributed around the circle, it should be accurate. So, it depends on how accurate you guess the center to probe the points.
[01:16:16] <maddash> jmkasunich: one way to optimize this solution is to automate the solving for the intersection of those two perp bisectors
[01:16:20] <jmkasunich> so, how does one compute the perpendicular bisector
[01:16:46] <maddash> jmkasunich: that's just {negative reciprocal of the slope { of any two points, ie p1 and p2 } }
[01:17:05] <maddash> jmkasunich: and calculate the { midpoint of { p1 and p2 } }
[01:17:08] <jmkasunich> reciprocals blow up as the slope approaches zero
[01:17:27] <jmkasunich> never mind, there are other ways
[01:17:36] <maddash> jmkasunich: sure, check for degeneracy. two-cycle loss.
[01:17:50] <jmkasunich> just rotate the vector from p1 to p2 by 90 degrees
[01:18:04] <jmkasunich> and then offset it to the midpoint
[01:18:16] <maddash> i wrote a routine a while ago in C. would that help?
[01:18:23] <fenn> what for?
[01:18:39] <maddash> for figuring out the meaning of life
[01:18:45] <jmkasunich> perp bisectors? interesction thereof?
[01:18:49] <maddash> sarcasm ^^ . for figuring out the center from 3 points.
[01:18:55] <fenn> ya it's in there somewhere, pi, you know, it's a message from god
[01:19:56] <lerman> So that's how you knew the answer -- you've worked on the problem recently. I probably haven't looked at the problem for almost 50 years.
[01:20:47] <lerman> Anyone here have an inexpensive source for an LVDT signal conditioner?
[01:21:07] <fenn> you can probe for 3 equidistant points easy enough.. probe left, then go up/right at 60 degrees, then down
[01:21:51] <jmkasunich> fenn - that assumes that you started somewhere near the center of the hole
[01:21:54] <fenn> yeah
[01:22:24] <fenn> it avoids the slope problem though
[01:22:25] <lerman> If you can't assume that, you can't even assume that you started inside the hole.
[01:24:28] <skinnypuppy1334> Guys I'm ordering some parts tonight, anyone know how many oz in a stepper is ideal for the knee of a bridgeport vertical 2J type clone?
[01:25:01] <lerman> Don't do it. Use servos and move the quill; not the kneee.
[01:25:12] <lerman> knee
[01:25:58] <skinnypuppy1334> I can't afford servo control , I am planning on using z on quill also but want a linear axis on the knee to jog.
[01:26:33] <fenn> i figure it doesnt matter if you have enough gearing..
[01:26:48] <fenn> how much does a table weigh? what's the drive ratio?
[01:27:00] <fenn> figure 10% efficiency
[01:27:29] <fenn> or, just crank the thing and estimate the torque by hand
[01:27:59] <skinnypuppy1334> I'd hate to speculate on the table weight, 10x54 + vice/rotary table or dividing head
[01:28:20] <fenn> hang a weight on the crank and see when it turns
[01:28:23] <skinnypuppy1334> .. There's something simple... stick a torque wrench on it...
[01:28:35] <toast> i'd go with fenn's method
[01:28:40] <toast> over a torque wrench
[01:28:39] <fenn> if you have a torque wrench that's sensitive enough maybe
[01:28:40] <lerman> Figure that the table is 200 lbs. The knee is another 200, the saddle is 100. The work is 200. The leadscrew is 5 pitch geared 2:1.
[01:29:30] <skinnypuppy1334> lerman that sounds like a good estimate
[01:29:40] <lerman> And getting this to work... *priceless*
[01:30:24] <skinnypuppy1334> certainly, i have some kneck probs aggravated by cranking the mill up down all the time on long runs...
[01:32:15] <maddash> brb, i'm letting my computer while it execute `find / -iname \*biarcs\*` while I grab some coffee
[01:32:35] <maddash> s/while\ it//
[01:33:35] <fenn> dont you have locate?
[01:33:51] <maddash> you kidding? update-db's going to take half an hour
[01:34:02] <fenn> that's why you run it as a cron script silly
[01:34:11] <maddash> i killed off the cronscript a while back
[01:34:20] <fenn> then your old file should still be in the same place
[01:34:20] <maddash> made my firefox segfault
[01:34:29] <maddash> yeah, it better be
[01:34:41] <fenn> locate -i biarcs
[01:48:41] <SWPadnos> there was a website that had all the weights of the bridgrport parts, but I can't find it now
[01:49:10] <SWPadnos> for a manual mill, I think the knee is ~500 pounds, the saddle ~290, and the table ~230
[01:49:37] <SWPadnos> the saddle may be less. it's probably not heavier than the table, and I think I remember the total being around 900 pounds
[01:49:44] <cradek> SWPadnos: it's possible I have that data in dead-tree format
[01:49:47] <toast_> i love milling machines that are so heavy they can't feasibly have knees
[01:49:51] <SWPadnos> for a manual mill?
[01:49:55] <cradek> no
[01:50:01] <SWPadnos> ok :)
[01:50:05] <cradek> for a series 1 cnc
[01:50:29] <SWPadnos> does yours have the pocket in the front of the knee for the Y servo?
[01:50:52] <cradek> yes it has a sticky-out thing where (I guess) the end of the screw is
[01:50:51] <SWPadnos> or does it hang off to the side
[01:51:05] <cradek> I think the motor is straight down
[01:51:18] <cradek> I haven't looked in that particular part I guess
[01:51:29] <SWPadnos> hmmm. on some of them, the front of the knee looks a little but like an upside-down "U"
[01:51:41] <SWPadnos> the motor sticks into the pocket formed by the U
[01:51:55] <SWPadnos> away from the user, toward the frame
[01:51:59] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/bridgeport/DSCN6324.JPG
[01:52:09] <cradek> yes the motor sticks back
[01:52:24] <cradek> it's very nice how they tucked the motors under it
[01:52:48] <SWPadnos> ok. that knee arrangement looks pretty similar to mine
[01:53:05] <cradek> are you taking your knee off for something?
[01:53:21] <SWPadnos> no - skinnypuppy1334 was asking how heavy they are for motor sizing reasons
[01:53:38] <cradek> I know the knee feels heavy when cranking it...
[01:53:49] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:53:52] <cradek> and it's really geared
[01:53:56] <SWPadnos> and that's with a 10:1 screw
[01:55:19] <skinnypuppy1334> Yeah a good 20 or 30 cranks after changing out say a boring head to a short tool like a collett... etc wear ya out
[01:55:25] <cradek> 5" of Z should be enough for anyone
[01:55:32] <SWPadnos> it's more of a power feed idea
[01:55:41] <SWPadnos> not so much for CNC control
[01:55:42] <cradek> oh a power knee could be nice
[01:55:46] <SWPadnos> indeed
[01:56:09] <skinnypuppy1334> Yeah I was going to use the knee for a linear jog and quill z
[01:56:15] <cradek> use a worm gear?
[01:56:20] <SWPadnos> I know of one person who servoed the knee for Z, I think they used a 50-60 in-lb servo
[01:56:49] <cradek> did he have to counterbalance it?
[01:57:02] <SWPadnos> as long as you don't care for it to move to quickly, you could probably use a stepper of around the same rating
[01:57:09] <SWPadnos> no, no counterbalance or gas springs
[01:57:13] <cradek> wow
[01:57:22] <cradek> original acme screw?
[01:57:26] <SWPadnos> I thought about doing that with my mill, and using cgas springs for help
[01:57:35] <SWPadnos> I don't know about the screw
[01:57:36] <cradek> a ballscrew would let it fall I'm sure
[01:57:42] <cradek> that can't be good
[01:57:48] <SWPadnos> servo with brake
[01:58:14] <SWPadnos> even a 1500-pound load isn't all that much torque at the servo
[01:58:55] <skinnypuppy1334> I was going to use the gas lifts to assist weight...
[01:59:33] <SWPadnos> 10 TPI screw, use 2:1 or higher gearing. at 20 turns per inch, you get 60 * 20 * pi * (some other stuff I don't know) force on the knee ;)
[02:00:07] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: are you sure it's a 10 tpi screw?
[02:00:15] <SWPadnos> I know mine is
[02:00:16] <skinnypuppy1334> .100 per rev
[02:00:16] <jmkasunich> I bet it's 5 tpi and 2:1 gearing at the bevel gear
[02:00:23] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure what the other guy had
[02:00:28] <SWPadnos> hmmm. could be
[02:00:40] <skinnypuppy1334> I think the shaft to screw is 2:1
[02:01:02] <SWPadnos> ok - you're right about that. I'm remembering that I wondered how it was 10 cranks / inch, but the screw looked the same :)
[02:04:22] <lerman> The dial on my bpor clone is .100 per turn on the knee.
[02:04:29] <lerman> bport
[02:04:40] <toast> bports are .100 per turn on knee
[02:04:46] <fenn> i'd prolly do a nice big fat regulated air cylinder running off shop air, if it had to move very much
[02:04:47] <toast> never seen one that wasn't
[02:05:07] <jmkasunich> .100 per turn at the handle
[02:05:13] <jmkasunich> but .200 per turn at the screw
[02:05:23] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich is picking nits
[02:05:27] <toast> i didn't say anything about the screw, did i
[02:05:33] <toast> i just said "per turn"
[02:06:12] <jmkasunich> I wasn't replying to you, I was replying to swp, who did say 10 tpi screw
[02:06:24] <toast> oh, a+
[02:07:06] <fenn> assuming the gears are perfectly efficient, 0.100 per turn would be the same as a 10tpi screw, no?
[02:07:11] <SWPadnos> yeah yeah - I haven't even looked at the machine in weeks
[02:07:25] <toast> well, no
[02:07:28] <SWPadnos> fenn, no, there's a bevel gear in there, and that's 2:1
[02:07:32] <toast> not in terms of accuracy
[02:07:39] <fenn> oh shut up about accuracy
[02:07:44] <toast> but for the sake of loading
[02:07:49] <toast> they use a 5 tpi
[02:08:00] <SWPadnos> the mass of the machine only has to push on a 5TPI screw, but the hand crank gets an extra advantage
[02:08:10] <cradek> how will you compensate for backlash in the knee acme screw?
[02:08:17] <cradek> (haha)
[02:08:22] <toast> cradek: the 500 lbs on the table =)
[02:08:33] <toast> table/knee/saddle
[02:08:40] <fenn> could be a real problem with my hypothetical shop air cylinder
[02:09:00] <cradek> true
[02:09:18] <SWPadnos> just leave 100 pounds or so downforce
[02:09:36] <SWPadnos> or balance the air cylinder(s) without anything on the table - the vise will hold it down
[02:09:54] <fenn> all's fine and dandy until you decide to plunge mill into some bronze
[02:10:09] <skinnypuppy1334> ;O)
[02:10:37] <SWPadnos> no. the guy who did this (Ron Rogers on the CCED list) says he can do arrays of holes in steel, and the motor only gets "hot", not "very hot"
[02:10:50] <SWPadnos> like 1000 holes at a time, no problem
[02:11:15] <SWPadnos> without air springs - just the 50 or 60 in-lb servo
[02:11:35] <jepler> I wonder how these folks happened to choose their name .. http://www.cncphoto.com/
[02:12:11] <skinnypuppy1334> Anyone seen a surface grinder used as a high speed spindle machine? I also have a BS 6x18 grinder
[02:12:24] <toast> skinnypuppy1334: no sir
[02:12:49] <toast> all our surface grinders are like 3400 rpm
[02:12:53] <toast> max
[02:14:18] <skinnypuppy1334> Forgot to mention there is a small high speed BS adapter that bolts on the spindle of the grinder...
[02:14:40] <toast> it would be cool to see how it works.
[02:14:56] <toast> high speed slot mill of some kind
[02:15:15] <skinnypuppy1334> I see em on ebay every once in a while... just brain fartin b/c I don't do too much grinding
[02:15:16] <jmkasunich> jepler: probably the person's initials
[02:15:32] <toast> i wouldn't want to mess the spindle up
[02:15:35] <toast> if i had a surface grinder
[02:15:49] <toast> the whole machine, at that
[02:17:39] <skinnypuppy1334> Grinder looks like this
[02:17:39] <skinnypuppy1334> http://cgi.ebay.com/Brown-Sharpe-Micromaster-Surface-Grinder-NR_W0QQitemZ130140266781QQihZ003QQcategoryZ45021QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[02:17:53] <skinnypuppy1334> looking for one of those spindle adapters I was mentioning
[02:18:25] <fenn> but.. why?
[02:19:26] <fenn> dont those have rack and pinion drive on the long axis?
[02:20:32] <skinnypuppy1334> hadn't considered that ...
[02:20:40] <fenn> that machine sure looks clean btw
[02:22:40] <toast> clean like burning
[02:23:28] <fenn> or maybe it's just never been used
[02:25:08] <skinnypuppy1334> Pretty much the case with mine, a 1963 machine the drive oring belts had rotted and it was set aside
[02:25:42] <toast> my only thought is that it would be a shame if the milling messed the machine up
[02:25:57] <toast> and you needed to do some surface grinding and couldn't get what you needed
[02:27:05] <skinnypuppy1334> You're right on that like I said brain fart.
[02:27:45] <toast> well no if you had an old crappy surface grinder
[02:27:51] <toast> with a hydraulic drive
[02:28:02] <toast> that would be a totally worthwhile experement
[02:29:34] <fenn> i'm pretty jealous of kirk wallace's lathe
[02:30:07] <toast> ?
[02:30:09] <toast> linky
[02:30:13] <SWPadnos> me too. especially because the people who were supposed to sell me one (for $500) never came through :(
[02:30:24] <SWPadnos> it'a an HNC that he's converting with EMC
[02:30:26] <skinnypuppy1334> It is a pretty cool grinder, it auto feeds in Y every time X reciprocates
[02:30:30] <fenn> http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/
[02:31:10] <toast> oh crap man that's cool
[02:31:49] <skinnypuppy1334> Sweet hardinge
[02:33:36] <fenn> the diy barrier strips is a neat idea too
[02:34:11] <fenn> just cut some slots in a piece of plastic and tap a hole for the screw
[02:35:37] <maddash> fuuuuuuuuuck
[02:35:49] <SWPadnos> you didn't delete stuff again did you?
[02:36:01] <maddash> that's what fucking happened
[02:36:05] <SWPadnos> oops
[02:36:12] <maddash> it got fucking wiped out with the `rm * .[blah]`
[02:36:29] <maddash> "it" being my biarc source code
[02:36:39] <maddash> lemme post the source I just wrote
[02:36:46] <SWPadnos> only 5 more deletions and it'll be NSA clean
[02:37:22] <skinnypuppy1334> maddash, if you are just playing with configuring have you used a virtual machine before? You can take a snapshot of a current install state and hit revert at any time... Vmware server.. i use it for experimentin
[02:37:38] <maddash> locate gives me some weird results: "typedef struct mypt
[02:37:38] <maddash> {
[02:37:38] <maddash> double x,y;
[02:37:38] <maddash> } MYPT;
[02:37:40] <maddash> double dist(MYPT p1,MYPT p2);
[02:37:41] <skinnypuppy1334> Not for a live machine of course
[02:37:45] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:37:54] <SWPadnos> man, he's having trouble with that
[02:37:59] <maddash> freakin middle click
[02:38:01] <SWPadnos> man, you're having trouble with that
[02:38:11] <maddash> http://pastebin.ca/677505
[02:38:24] <maddash> jmkasunich, fenn, lerman, toast, jiffylube ^^
[02:38:58] <maddash> SWPadnos: this rm madness is almost enough to make me switch back to XP
[02:39:24] <SWPadnos> dunno why. just stop using the CL to delete things
[02:39:26] <toast> maddash: a+
[02:39:47] <fenn> maddash: would you feel better about it if your hard drive exploded?
[02:40:04] <SWPadnos> I think gnome and / or KDE can do the trashcan thing for you
[02:40:18] <maddash> sure, lemme `aptitude install kde`
[02:40:22] <maddash> [sarcasm]
[02:40:33] <SWPadnos> well, if you're using Ubuntu, you have gnome
[02:40:52] <fenn> i really wonder why we still dont have versioning file systems
[02:40:55] <maddash> debian. and installing kde would require that: "0 packages upgraded, 365 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[02:40:55] <maddash> Need to get 254MB/256MB of archives. After unpacking 682MB will be used."
[02:41:05] <SWPadnos> you mean like VMS 20 years ago?
[02:41:05] <maddash> fenn: cow fs or something
[02:41:20] <fenn> it didnt seem ready when i looked a couple months ago
[02:41:33] <maddash> fenn: ext3cow.com
[02:41:38] <fenn> and experimental filesystem isnt something you want to use daily
[02:42:29] <SWPadnos> those (float) casts should either be (double) casts, or just use the constant 2.0
[02:43:18] <maddash> jmkasunich, lerman, et al.: if you guys have a CAD or something, you should try out a few values and make sure the routine's results are correct -- i just wrote the above down in haste.
[02:44:02] <maddash> SWPadnos: good point. they're typos, b/c I originally used floats
[02:44:38] <fenn> you have to cast a number?
[02:44:51] <SWPadnos> if you want it to be of a certain type, yes
[02:44:59] <SWPadnos> like 1ll
[02:44:59] <maddash> maybe not.
[02:45:04] <SWPadnos> (that's LL)
[02:45:24] <maddash> hm, so 2F would've been easier than (double)2
[02:45:33] <SWPadnos> 2.0
[02:45:41] <maddash> oh, right.
[02:45:46] <maddash> then what about floats?
[02:45:52] <SWPadnos> 2.0
[02:45:52] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> sup folks?
[02:46:13] <SWPadnos> if you use 2.0 in a float expression, the 2.0 will be a float
[02:46:26] <maddash> thanks. you just saved my carpal tunnels.
[02:46:55] <SWPadnos> ifyou use 2.0 in a double expression, then it will be a float if (a) it's more efficient to do it that way and (b) the compiler can prove to itself that there will be no loss of precision
[02:47:04] <SWPadnos> assuming the compiler works correctly
[02:47:18] <fenn> the int float thing messes me up in python all the time
[02:47:20] <SWPadnos> otherwise, it might just be a double all the time ;)
[02:47:40] <Skullworks-PGAB> SWPadnos: only 5 more deletions and it'll be NSA clean - Oh I almost choked reading that!
[02:47:55] <SWPadnos> heh - that's one reason to like compiled languages - some errors are caught at compile time that are only caught at runtime in scripting languages
[02:47:59] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:48:03] <fenn> its not an error though
[02:48:19] <fenn> like, say i do circumference = radius * pi
[02:48:31] <fenn> and radius = 1
[02:48:31] <jepler> fenn: get in the habit of writing 'from __future__ import division'
[02:48:36] <jepler> >>> from __future__ import division
[02:48:36] <jepler> >>> print 1/3
[02:48:36] <jepler> 0.333333333333
[02:48:51] <SWPadnos> hahaha - that's pretty funny
[02:49:12] <fenn> ok its not doing it now
[02:49:36] <fenn> so i dunno under what circumstances python decides to round to the nearest integer
[02:49:41] <maddash> hm, i'm writing an FLTK UI for emc2, and i'd like to display the current position wrt to G54-59.3 . I know that these values are held within the Interp class, but the usr_intf has no access to an Interp -- how do I get around this?
[02:50:14] <cradek> maddash: you can't easily get that information
[02:50:17] <SWPadnos> those should be parameters, which means it's a hairy mess to get at them reliably
[02:50:57] <maddash> cradek: how "hard" does it get?
[02:50:59] <SWPadnos> there's been brief discussion about coming up with a variable access API, but it isn't really being worked on at the moment AFAIK
[02:51:27] <SWPadnos> variables are stored in the .var file, which is output "from time to time"
[02:51:56] <SWPadnos> there's no easy way of getting them other than from that file (unless you want to go the GDB route ...)
[02:52:05] <cradek> variables are internal to the interpreter
[02:52:07] <maddash> damn. so can inside emctask.cc, can I just delete the declaration of "Interp interp" and create a new Interp member inside EMC_STAT?
[02:52:22] <SWPadnos> (at least that's my understanding, I don't have experience with that from a programming perspective)
[02:52:24] <maddash> SWPadnos: I can't get it from the .var file, because the .var isn't updated
[02:52:31] <SWPadnos> as I said - from tiem to time
[02:52:33] <SWPadnos> time
[02:52:34] <maddash> SWPadnos: until the session is over.
[02:52:49] <SWPadnos> no, it's written whenever it feels like it
[02:52:58] <SWPadnos> which could be at the end of a session, or not
[02:53:20] <SWPadnos> (it's always written at the end of a session, but may also be written at other times0
[02:53:23] <SWPadnos> )
[02:53:35] <maddash> jepler: dost thou hold any wisdom that thou careth to share about this?
[02:54:03] <cradek> if it was easy AXIS would already do it :-)
[02:54:07] <maddash> I really don't want to go hacking through emc.cc and company again
[02:54:14] <maddash> cradek: :P
[02:54:18] <jepler> maddash: about offsets? No. I think what everyone else has told you is accurate, though I didn't read it all in detail.
[02:54:33] <SWPadnos> that's good, because I didn't write it in detail
[02:54:37] <jepler> here's one terrible idea: activate each offset in turn with MDI, then look around in the stat buffer for the net offset in effect
[02:54:44] <jepler> now I don't really care about this, so I'm leaving
[02:55:03] <cradek> I agree that's a terrible idea
[02:55:07] <maddash> sorry to bother you, wise sage of the CNC.
[02:55:09] <cradek> goodbye jepler
[02:55:20] <SWPadnos> see ya Jeff. have fun
[02:55:48] <maddash> damn damn damn. so I suppose shuffling Interp to EMC_STAT is the closest thing to an elegant solution.
[02:56:33] <SWPadnos> an elegant solution would be to develop a generic API that any software could use to get and set variables, both numeric an named
[02:56:36] <SWPadnos> and
[02:56:38] <maddash> or maybe an iNTERP* to save memory
[02:56:59] <maddash> does jepler hate me or something?
[02:57:13] <SWPadnos> I don't think so. I bet this conversation just doesn't interest him
[02:58:47] <maddash> eh.
[02:58:57] <maddash> lemme make some changes to emc.cc.
[02:59:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> problem with many of our dream features was that they were not considered back when EMC1 was first envisioned
[02:59:52] <Skullworks-PGAB> so the developement path never thought to provide a way to do some things
[03:00:59] <Skullworks-PGAB> and trying to shoe horn them in now is - difficult.
[03:02:35] <toast> i hate when that happens
[03:03:12] <toast> "we need xyz"
[03:03:23] <toast> "b...but"
[03:04:32] <SWPadnos> it's not so hard to add features. what's really hard is adding features that don't change anything for existing setups
[03:04:33] <fenn> hey Skullworks-PGAB what does PGAB mean?
[03:05:29] <maddash> pin grid array, bub.
[03:07:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> * Skullworks-PGAB is a hybrd of 2 different internet screen names - both are nicknames from highschool
[03:08:44] <Skullworks-PGAB> Skullworks was because the computer lab had an extension with a few extra terminals in a room they stored skeletons and bones for a physiology class.
[03:10:05] <Skullworks-PGAB> next to the terminal was a skull - which I used to tap with my penicl while stairing into a CRT trying to hunt down errors in Assembly language.
[03:10:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> They used to joke - He's working that skull again.
[03:11:12] <SWPadnos> "Pretty Good At Basketball" ?
[03:11:54] <Skullworks-PGAB> and for this chat - I appended PGAB since without it people were always getting my comments and Skunkworks comments confused.
[03:12:18] <maddash> who the heck is skunkworks?
[03:12:31] <toast> that's classified.
[03:12:52] <SWPadnos> NSA
[03:12:55] <^Fritz> I wonder if in Skunkwork's computer lab they stored animals for the animal husbandry classes...
[03:13:00] <SWPadnos> (No Such Animal)
[03:13:12] <Skullworks-PGAB> PGAB is short for Prof GAB - GAB being a nickname given me by my 3rd grade teacher since I used to just put my initials on my homework papers
[03:13:44] <Skullworks-PGAB> that nick stuck - no one used my real name in school - teachers included
[03:14:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> and my 6th grade science teacher added the Prof prefix because I was never following the class - I was always reading about 4 chapters ahead.
[03:17:08] <Skullworks-PGAB> my first internet account had profgab as the email - Win 3.0 on a 286 and a 14.4 modem - a long time ago...
[03:19:31] <Skullworks-PGAB> skunkworks = samco = Sam Sokolik
[03:19:39] <Skullworks-PGAB> IIRC
[03:25:54] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> Skullworks-PGAB, so you GABbed too much?
[03:26:20] <Skullworks-PGAB> yes I did - I also spent too much money today....
[03:26:43] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> I spent too much money like 2-3 weeks ago
[03:26:47] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> bought a whole new computer
[03:27:00] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> I was like, just the bear minimum upgrades...
[03:27:07] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> ended building a whole new system. :/
[03:27:59] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> E6750, 4 gigs ram, 2 seagate 500GB raid 1, system, with an ATI 1950, and a HD24000 card as well
[03:28:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> I got this sudden impulse that I was going to need Gecko Vampires - So I ordered 3x and a G320 since there are only a few hours left on the Gecko Sale.
[03:28:59] <Skullworks-PGAB> hmmm
[03:29:06] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> shit that's a nice sale.
[03:29:14] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> but too bad I don't play much with my cnc machine
[03:29:30] <Skullworks-PGAB> Computers are a sever danger to my credit card balance
[03:29:43] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> I pay with debit.
[03:30:53] <Skullworks-PGAB> I pay off the cards fast - won't do debit - not after the identity theft nightmare my parents went thru.
[03:32:59] <Skullworks-PGAB> thieves ran up over $40,000 in under 11 hours
[03:33:03] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> nice
[03:33:10] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> and the bank didn't see anything wrong with that?
[03:33:16] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> debit cards in canada have a small limit
[03:33:24] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> max is usually 3K
[03:34:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> well - they were pros - they knew which places don't process credit transactions immediately
[03:35:54] <Skullworks-PGAB> my parents had an overdraft plan that automatically transferes funds from savings to checking to cover overdrafts
[03:37:05] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> id theift is great.
[03:37:13] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> screws with people's lives, by not actually doing anything
[03:37:22] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> oh ohwell... I digress
[03:37:27] <Skullworks-PGAB> so - main acc emptied, savings emptied ( at that bank ), then the fraud detection kicked in when they broke $2000 in overdrafts
[03:38:08] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> buahhaha.
[03:38:16] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> oh ohwell... they got all the funds back I take it.
[03:38:19] <Skullworks-PGAB> problem was SSI is direct deposit - and the account had to be locked
[03:38:30] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> what's si?
[03:38:31] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> ssi?
[03:38:42] <Skullworks-PGAB> they had no access to cash for 6 weeks
[03:38:51] <Skullworks-PGAB> Social security
[03:38:52] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> but, they had it all back afterwards right?
[03:39:05] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> 6 weeks? they have kids, kids can support the parents for a month and a half.
[03:39:10] <Skullworks-PGAB> yes - all but $2000
[03:39:22] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> $2K? wtf... they should have got it all back.
[03:39:48] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> we here in Canada, are liable up to $50.00 (fifty) in fraudulant transactions... and that's usually waived.
[03:40:09] <Skullworks-PGAB> yes - I did support them - sent them a few $500 Postal money orders to cash out - not deposit
[03:40:20] <Skullworks-PGAB> each week
[03:40:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> they live in Los Angeles - very expensive...
[03:42:40] <CIA-24> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/halui.cc:
[03:42:40] <CIA-24> add support for halui buttons to send MDI commands. useful for things
[03:42:40] <CIA-24> like quill up, move to reference point, etc.
[03:42:41] <CIA-24> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/halui_halvcp/halui.ini:
[03:42:41] <CIA-24> add support for halui buttons to send MDI commands. useful for things
[03:42:42] <CIA-24> like quill up, move to reference point, etc.
[03:43:17] <maddash> bastard. he was so close to adding external access to G5* offsets.
[03:43:34] <SWPadnos> don't bet on it
[03:43:40] <cradek> nope
[03:43:56] <cradek> this is my own itch to scratch
[03:43:58] <SWPadnos> it was Alex who brought up the API idea a couple of weeks ago
[03:44:49] <Skullworks-PGAB> there is access - write access G10 L2 Px
[03:45:20] <maddash> read access, genius
[03:45:26] <Skullworks-PGAB> to blindly go where....
[03:45:35] <maddash> omg this girl is so hot
[03:45:59] <maddash> er...I meant, how does G10 L4 behave?
[03:46:53] <fenn> the keys are like, right next to each other
[03:46:56] <toast> what girl
[03:47:30] <maddash> the girl who lost her digital camera
[03:47:36] <maddash> digg.com
[03:48:06] <Skullworks-PGAB> G10 L2 Px allows you to change the values of the G54-G59.3
[03:48:58] <maddash> no, L4
[03:49:35] <cradek> L4 is an error
[03:50:48] <Skullworks-PGAB> there is only L1 (not supported by EMC) and L2
[03:50:54] <maddash> so what is the L* value?
[03:51:01] <cradek> maddash: 2
[03:51:02] <maddash> or, L1?
[03:51:35] <Skullworks-PGAB> L1 would change a tool table value - L2 changes a work coordinate value
[03:51:51] <cradek> I think (?) I've seen documentation for L20 too (another set of fixture offsets)
[03:52:19] <maddash> Skullworks-PGAB: whoa. cooooool.
[03:52:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> might be something like that for some of the HAAS extended software
[03:55:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> thats the beauty of G10 - you could do everything in say G59 - and just keep updating it - maybe from a O-sub thats counting or has a list...
[03:56:33] <fenn> relying on .var files is kinda silly when you have #variables
[03:56:48] <fenn> unless you need to preserve stuff across multiple runs of emc
[03:57:01] <maddash> fenn: not so silly anymore, eh?
[03:57:17] <fenn> no, i think it sucks worse than gcode
[03:57:50] <maddash> the .var file store the gcode variables...
[03:57:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> on the programs we used on a Kitamura HX400 we had a list of G10's after the end of the program - it loaded all the fixture and tool offsets.
[04:01:46] <jlmjvm> hello all
[04:01:47] <maddash> brb
[04:51:55] <LawrenceG> cradek: Thanks for the help... I got the project cut... true type tracer, emc2 and G92 rules! http://imagebin.org/10203
[04:52:03] <cradek> yay!
[04:52:26] <cradek> hey cool, what is it?
[04:52:27] <LawrenceG> great use for old parallel port switch boxes...
[04:52:32] <cradek> I mean, other than an IRLP Interface
[04:53:08] <LawrenceG> interface a radio and computer.... basically a couple of transistors and a touch tone decoder chip
[04:53:28] <cradek> interesting
[04:53:44] <cradek> can the computer also transmit?
[04:54:31] <LawrenceG> That front panel is just regular formica countertop... yes computer can xmit..... it annouces time every hour as well as streaming remote radios onto the local radio
[04:54:42] <cradek> neat
[04:56:02] <LawrenceG> I used the pcb cutter for engraving and 1 0.1" endmill for the cutout
[04:56:10] <cradek> those old parallel and scsi boxes are good for a lot of stuff
[04:56:23] <cradek> the scsi ones even have a power supply and fan
[04:56:40] <LawrenceG> I buy them at the thrift shop for $1.99
[04:56:57] <cradek> haha, I usually don't spend quite so much
[04:57:03] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/cnc/lathe/DSCN6296.JPG
[04:57:07] <LawrenceG> they even come with a big switch and 3 db25's
[04:57:05] <cradek> here's how I used one recently
[04:57:15] <cradek> it had outlets in the back! it was really handy.
[04:57:21] <cradek> fan on the bottom
[04:58:06] <LawrenceG> cool.... are your pminmo drives in that?
[04:58:27] <cradek> no this is pluto + homemade servo drive stuff
[04:58:40] <LawrenceG> ok....
[04:58:45] <cradek> the pminmo stepper box is in the back (ups box with ribbon cables coming out)
[04:59:03] <cradek> I also used its outlets for spindle etc
[04:59:12] <skyfox00> what would be the correct way to connect the e-stop signal from the pluto-servo board to the power-driver board disable pin?(I think this is what I mean...)
[04:59:51] <cradek> skyfox00: will you have an external estop switch?
[05:00:05] <cradek> or do you just want to disable the amps/choppers with the emc gui
[05:00:26] <LawrenceG> cradek: now the next emc project is a dog dish holder!
[05:01:17] <cradek> LawrenceG: ha, funny the things we decide to build
[05:01:55] <skyfox00> I am trying to make a somwhat generic pluto-servo power-driver board... so having the option for an external e-stop might be nice...
[05:02:51] <cradek> for a generic board, bringing the extra digital ins/outs out to screw terminals is probably all you want to do
[05:03:05] <cradek> everyone using it will want a different scheme for IO and especially estop
[05:03:21] <LawrenceG> I knew I had a use in mind when I bought the shoptask!
[05:03:45] <cradek> you might consider RC, pullups, and/or schmitt trigger for the IOs
[05:04:14] <skyfox00> The FET drivers(HIP4081) have a pin that disables all outputs... and I was just hoping to get some ideas what to connect it to...
[05:04:46] <cradek> sounds like you want the amp-enable-out hal pin
[05:05:00] <cradek> then you can disable the 'amps' by turning 'machine off' in the gui
[05:06:04] <skyfox00> um, I also have a pin that when givin a 'high' powers up the fets...
[05:06:44] <skyfox00> are the outputs of pluto open-drain?
[05:07:00] <cradek> sorry, I don't know
[05:14:29] <skyfox00> the 'About pluto_servo' page on linuxcnc.org mentions filtering/buffering on the QZx pins... do ALL inputs need buffering?
[05:43:22] <skyfox00> well, maybe another day...
[05:45:03] <skyfox00> I'm tellin ya, that peer guy sure has reset lots of peoples connections... someday sombody is gona catch up with him and it aint gona be pretty....
[05:45:54] <Skullworks-PGAB> peer works for the RIAA
[05:46:05] <skyfox00> RIAA ?
[05:46:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> disupting net traffic everywhere
[05:47:01] <skyfox00> well, cya..
[05:47:27] <Skullworks-PGAB> Recording Industry Association of America
[05:47:50] <Skullworks-PGAB> aka the MP3 gestopo
[05:48:07] <skyfox00> oh, rriiiggghttt.... got it!
[05:48:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> never admit you got it...
[05:48:59] <Skullworks-PGAB> or you tried to get it...
[05:59:32] <tomp> that simple motor mount revisited http://www.truetex.com/ymount.htm
[06:46:38] <sed> does it take an hour for the unbuntu cd to boot on some systems?
[06:47:17] <skinnypuppy1334> sed I've seen it take about that long on an old pentium 166 or 200
[06:47:58] <skinnypuppy1334> I didn't really trust that junk machine something about the cd drive was really unresponsive to linur
[06:48:01] <skinnypuppy1334> x
[06:48:08] <sed> Pentium II 500
[06:48:26] <sed> was it faster once installed???
[06:49:07] <sed> our BDI 2.1.2 system died and I am tryin to rebuilt with EMC2
[06:49:13] <sed> rebuild even
[06:49:26] <skinnypuppy1334> Yeah I'll give it that much... Think it had 128 mb... slow switching b/t programs and loading programs but responsive once loaded
[06:49:38] <sed> it has a STG ISA card in it.. dono if its going to be all that ez to rebuild
[06:51:03] <skinnypuppy1334> That was yeah faster once installed
[07:25:10] <sed> still not booted.. the cdrom is blinking but just a red screen with a mouse pointer
[07:43:50] <sed> would I want unbuntu server or desktop for a fresth install?
[08:11:48] <sed> oh says right here no GUI on sever... nevermind
[09:08:48] <sed> does anyone use a STG card with EMC2?
[09:31:41] <JymmmEMC> JymmmEMC is now known as MrAsshole
[09:33:01] <MrAsshole> MrAsshole is now known as JymmmEMC
[12:34:46] <anonimasu_> sed: there's nothing that prevents you from installing a gui on server
[12:51:14] <cradek> sed: you probably need more ram
[12:51:56] <cradek> try to get 384 in it
[12:52:40] <cradek> yes some (probably not many) are using STG. I think it works right, except maybe for index pulse homing which is not well tested yet
[12:58:47] <NightHawk> HI folks, I'm<just trying to compile a .comp but I don't find the comp program
[12:58:49] <NightHawk> is it normal?
[12:59:19] <cradek> this has been covered extensively on the emc-users list lately. You have to install build-essential and emc2-dev packages.
[12:59:22] <jepler> NightHawk: install emc2-dev and build-essential
[12:59:45] <cradek> hi jepler
[12:59:48] <jepler> cradek: jinx
[13:00:00] <cradek> t must be good advice then
[13:00:02] <cradek> i
[13:00:06] <NightHawk> mmmhh.
[13:00:18] <NightHawk> the pc is not connected to Internet
[13:01:12] <jepler> that makes it difficult. The easiest way is to connect it to the internet for at least a short time.
[13:11:15] <NightHawk> ok. I'll try. many thanx
[13:11:32] <jepler> on a fresh livecd install, the packages listed in the following file are the ones needed to build new emc2 components: http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/emc2-development-packages.txt
[13:15:51] <NightHawk> I think it will be more simple connect the pc to the internet, but I don't know why! :)
[13:18:20] <anonimasu_> spice rocks :p
[13:27:08] <jlmjvm> jepler:is there any way to make emc work with the nvidia 6150 onboard chipset?
[13:27:58] <jlmjvm> im looking at a laptop that has that chipset,had it on a desktop before and couldnt make it work
[13:28:41] <jepler> jlmjvm: with onboard video that shares system RAM the only reliable advice seems to be "use an add-on PCI or AGP card instead"
[13:29:10] <jepler> jlmjvm: with a laptop that is hard advice to take, but laptops are traditionally some of the worst machines for realtime reliability anyway
[13:29:54] <jlmjvm> laptop would never run a machine,wanted to have it to show people
[13:30:30] <jepler> oh -- in that case you want emc2-sim and it doesn't matter whether it's actually reliable for realtime
[13:30:58] <jepler> install from the official ubuntu 6.06 CD then install emc2-sim over the network
[13:31:03] <jlmjvm> yes,it would just be a demo
[13:33:15] <jlmjvm> thanks
[13:33:16] <jepler> using emc2-sim and official ubuntu kernel you can follow any advice you find online for dapper and the hardware you're considering .. there is a lot of information out there on google, ubuntuforums.org, and so on
[13:33:26] <jepler> good luck
[13:33:54] <anonimasu_> it's the only way I get how stuff works :p
[13:35:00] <jlmjvm> everytime i tried the dapper install before it would never get all the file needed,but that was prolly a year ago
[13:35:12] <jlmjvm> may be better now
[13:39:01] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[13:39:42] <cradek> hi lerman
[13:39:53] <lerman> howdy
[13:40:25] <cradek> is it possible to make an MDI O call search for the sub in a file too?
[13:40:52] <lerman> I don't know why it doesn't, already.
[13:40:54] <cradek> currently it says "File not open" if I try to do that
[13:41:36] <lerman> Ah... It looks in the "current" file first, and if there is none, it croaks.
[13:41:56] <lerman> It should be possible. And would be quite desirable.
[13:41:58] <cradek> ah ok
[13:42:03] <cradek> I agree it would be very nice
[13:43:09] <lerman> I'll put it on my list of things to do.
[13:43:21] <cradek> thanks!
[13:43:53] <lerman> Have you every used LVDTs?
[13:44:16] <lerman> I just bought one and need to get an interface for it.
[13:44:27] <cradek> remind me what the acronym means
[13:44:30] <lerman> (signal conditioner, display, etc)
[13:44:53] <lerman> Linear Variable Displacement Transducer (transformer?).
[13:45:11] <cradek> I guess not then
[13:46:58] <lerman> A rich man's dial indicator.
[13:47:08] <anonimasu_> lerman: toast has a good idea about it
[13:47:20] <lerman> What is that?
[13:47:30] <anonimasu_> lerman: "toastydeth"
[13:47:40] <anonimasu_> though he isnt around today
[13:47:47] <lerman> what was his idea?
[13:48:10] <anonimasu_> lerman: <lerman> Have you every used LVDTs?
[13:48:09] <anonimasu_> <lerman> I just bought one and need to get an interface for it.
[13:48:19] <anonimasu_> he knows about LVDT's..
[13:48:26] <lerman> Ah...
[14:10:09] <skunkworks> run pcb-gcode-setup
[14:10:43] <skunkworks> jeez - i really need to work on my copy-paste procedure.
[14:10:59] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=337705&postcount=3
[15:29:57] <jepler> is jogwheel (axis.0.jog-counts) supposed to obey the same limits as jogging in the GUI? I am hooking up a jogwheel, and can stall the X axis while moving it in 10mil increments but it's reliable at the configured speeds for jogging & running gcode..
[15:30:24] <cradek> yes it does
[15:30:43] <cradek> I noticed I could stall max by quickly turning it back and forth
[15:31:01] <cradek> afaik, it doesn't violate any limits (it can't, with stepgen)
[15:31:38] <cradek> so, that probably means the limits are not set right, but they're usually OK
[15:32:02] <jepler> I didn't set stepgen limits
[15:32:39] <jepler> but when doing a long jog I never see it go above 72ipm on the axis velocity readout..
[15:32:38] <cradek> no stepgen accel limit eitehr?
[15:32:44] <jepler> no
[15:32:56] <cradek> I think that makes stepgen work less well, for reasons I don't understand
[15:33:02] <jepler> just skipped setting them in the hal file, so the only limiting is in emc
[15:34:08] <skunkworks> I found my machine was more likely to stall if I set the stepgen accelleration to 0 or a high number. (5000) 10-20% higher seems to workgood
[15:34:29] <skunkworks> I should say - would stall
[15:36:08] <skunkworks> my new keyboard has a space bar that doesn't work the greatest.
[15:39:50] <jepler> that's a pity
[15:44:28] <jepler> net program-resume input.0.btn-left => halui.program.resume
[15:44:44] <jepler> I made a button be "resume"; after pressing it, I have to press "P" twice in the GUI to pause again
[15:45:14] <jepler> if press: P resume P resume P resume, it never pauses after the first time until I hit P P
[15:46:03] <jepler> (gui is axis)
[15:46:08] <cradek> wonder if there's a serial number problem again/still
[15:46:18] <cradek> do you see the messages in debug?
[15:47:22] <jepler> I'm going to look at that next
[15:47:52] <jepler> yeah it looks like it
[15:47:54] <jepler> Issuing EMC_TASK_PLAN_PAUSE -- (+510,+12, +26,)
[15:47:54] <jepler> Issuing EMC_TASK_PLAN_RESUME -- (+512,+12, +27,)
[15:47:54] <jepler> Issuing EMC_TASK_PLAN_PAUSE -- (+510,+12, +28,)
[15:48:02] <jepler> the third line appears only when I hit 'p' again
[15:48:18] <cradek> what's that smell?
[15:48:19] <jepler> * jepler takes it to emc-devel
[17:22:43] <anonimasu_> hi
[17:39:45] <fenn> maddash has quite a tail today
[17:40:26] <fenn> cradek: where do you get those scsi boxes from? it looks just about perfect for me
[17:41:13] <BOSS_> formerly known as jlmjvm
[17:49:42] <cradek> fenn: I don't remember where that one came from - no fixed supply
[17:49:47] <cradek> they're all different
[17:49:55] <cradek> (that was a particularly good one)
[17:50:32] <cradek> it had a 300MB disk in it, so it was pretty old. Maybe it was meant for macintosh?
[18:21:33] <skyfox00> Do ALL inputs on pluto_servo need schmitt buffering or just the QZx pins?
[18:26:39] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[18:27:29] <skyfox00> Its graveyard quiet in here...
[18:38:23] <skyfox00> well, I guess I'll come back on monday.....
[18:59:00] <Fritz^2> Hmm...okay, if I had played with emc2-trunk on my machine computer, and inadvertently did a make install....
[18:59:27] <Fritz^2> ...and I've apt-gotten--reinstalled emc2 and rtai-modules...
[18:59:41] <Fritz^2> ...and deleted /usr/local/...
[19:00:55] <Fritz^2> What package do I have to reinstall in order to get the python tcl site-packages back? It seems there *was* something needed in /usr/local/lib...
[19:01:36] <Fritz^2> * Fritz^2 is on his way to NSA-cleanliness, too :P
[19:02:35] <jepler> do you say 'there was something needed in /usr/local/lib' because you get an error message, or for some other reason?
[19:02:48] <Fritz^2> Yes, I get an error
[19:02:59] <jepler> what is the error? use http://pastebin.ca if it is long
[19:03:42] <jepler> dpkg-query -S '/usr/local/*' (note quotes) would show if any .deb package had files in /usr/local, but none of them should.
[19:03:52] <jepler> /usr/local is for software installed by other methods than by .deb packages
[19:08:57] <Fritz^2> http://pastebin.ca/678190
[19:09:13] <Fritz^2> dpkg-query - nothing with /usr/local
[19:09:29] <jepler> you did not successfully reinstall the packaged version of emc2
[19:10:03] <Fritz^2> It says it does - several times now
[19:10:36] <Fritz^2> drop back to 2.1.6?
[19:11:14] <jepler> this commandline should do it: sudo apt-get --reinstall install emc2
[19:11:45] <Fritz^2> that is exactly the command I've used
[19:12:00] <jepler> here is what it printed on my system when I ran it: http://pastebin.ca/678192
[19:12:19] <jepler> I know that it worked because I had replcaed /usr/bin/axis with a different file; after the apt-get command, its contents were restored
[19:16:15] <jepler> oh -- here's the problem: in /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages you have both ".py" and ".pyc" versions of emc2's python modules
[19:16:41] <jepler> you need to remove the .py versions installed when you did "make install"
[19:17:17] <jepler> this command will probably show you the files you need to remove: % dpkg-query -L emc2 | grep \.pyc | sed s/\.pyc/.py/
[19:23:26] <JymmmEMC> what are .pyc files?
[19:23:54] <jepler> JymmmEMC: .pyc are bytecompiled versions of .py files.
[19:24:25] <jepler> python uses the .pyc file if there is no .py file, or if the .py and .pyc file match; if they don't match, it tries to write the .pyc file but fails silently
[19:24:50] <jepler> in this specific case (they don't match, and you can't write the .pyc file, and the one you actually wanted was a .pyc file) that behavior is less than ideal
[19:25:11] <JymmmEMC> jepler: So, pre-compiled script to speed up the parser (so to speak) ?
[19:25:29] <jepler> JymmmEMC: yes, there is a tiny advantage in start-up time with .pyc files
[19:25:53] <JymmmEMC> and pyc files are binary when viewed with a hex editor?
[19:26:05] <jepler> no, they're hex when viewed with a hex editor
[19:26:07] <maddash_________> JymmmEMC: everything is binary when viewed with a hex editor
[19:26:10] <jepler> just like ascii files are
[19:26:31] <JymmmEMC> I mean ASCII < 128
[19:26:45] <JymmmEMC> == text
[19:26:52] <JymmmEMC> >128 == binary
[19:26:57] <maddash_________> JymmmEMC: not everything. there'll still be some visible plaintext.
[19:27:31] <JymmmEMC> maddash_________: Yeah, but the meat of them are binary if I understand correclty, removing comments etc
[19:27:46] <maddash_________> oui.
[19:27:53] <JymmmEMC> k
[19:27:56] <Fritz^2> Thank you, Mr. Jepler!
[19:28:08] <jepler> there are formats that do not use any characters outside of ASCII but are not human readable, so all snark aside I suspect you're still asking the wrong question about .pyc files.
[19:28:09] <maddash_________> btw, use "non-ASCII" Instead of "binary" -- it's more precise
[19:28:23] <Fritz^2> I know how to get .py stains out of my installation :)
[19:28:44] <Fritz^2> er, now know how
[19:29:48] <JymmmEMC> If anyone knows, can most uC reliablely read a 1uS pulse width?
[19:29:48] <maddash_________> er, now I know how
[19:30:12] <maddash_________> JymmmEMC: depends on the clock speed
[19:30:22] <maddash_________> JymmmEMC: my 56MHz uc can do it
[19:30:25] <Fritz^2> * Fritz^2 throws some .py at madd
[19:30:34] <JymmmEMC> maddash_________: what about a 10MHz?
[19:30:39] <jepler> python bytecompiled files discard more than just comments and code layout; python bytecode is a stack-based bytecode with instructions like LOAD_CONST, BINARY_ADD, and RETURN_VALUE
[19:31:10] <JymmmEMC> jepler: so closer to ASM ?
[19:31:22] <Fritz^2> Jymmm: not even remotely close
[19:31:28] <JymmmEMC> heh
[19:33:09] <maddash_________> JymmmEMC: maybe not. why don't you try it instead of asking?
[19:33:17] <maddash_________> JymmmEMC: which uc is this, btw?
[19:33:39] <JymmmEMC> maddash_________: That's why I was asking, I don't know what/which uC could read it.
[19:33:49] <JymmmEMC> maddash_________: part of the selection process
[19:34:17] <JymmmEMC> maddash_________: I was considering the AVR's, just needed to know which fmaily to start looking at
[19:35:51] <maddash_________> JymmmEMC: i've never bought an avr, but I can testify to the quality of rabbits
[19:36:39] <jepler> JymmmEMC: For interrupts, generally signals at least as wide as one clock can trigger an interrupt.
[19:36:42] <JymmmEMC> Uh oh... sourceforge's privacy policy is about to be changed.... https://sourceforge.net/docs/H02/
[19:38:32] <jepler> "The value on the INTn pin is sampled before detecting edges. If edge interrupt is selected, pulses with a duration longer than one CPU clock period will generate an interrupt. Shorter pulses are not guaranteed to generate an interrupt."
[19:38:38] <jepler> ^^ from at90s2313 documentation
[19:39:59] <JymmmEMC> 1uS == .001S ?
[19:40:29] <jepler> % units microsecond
[19:40:30] <jepler> Definition: 1e-6 second = 1e-06 s
[19:40:40] <jepler> % units 10MHz microsecond
[19:40:40] <jepler> reciprocal conversion
[19:40:40] <jepler> * 0.1
[19:40:40] <JymmmEMC> oh .000001S
[19:41:27] <JymmmEMC> so I'd need at least 10MHz to read a 1uS pulse reliably
[19:41:30] <maddash_________> self, deci, milli, micro, nano, pico
[19:42:35] <JymmmEMC> sorry, the numbers are just bumbling in my head (still asleep)
[19:42:59] <maddash_________> no need to apologize -- no one uses deci anymore
[19:43:36] <JymmmEMC> Well, that kinda eliminats my BASIC II stamp
[19:44:55] <jepler> you also have to answer questions like: what is the minimum time between one pulse and the next? (i.e., how much time is there to do whatever processing is indicated by one pulse)
[19:45:13] <JymmmEMC> 1 pps
[19:45:42] <maddash_________> so why pulse for only 1us?
[19:45:46] <JymmmEMC> What I was thinking of doing is stretching the 1uS pulse width to 25uS width using a uC
[19:46:10] <JymmmEMC> if possible.
[19:46:39] <jepler> sounds like a simple application for a 555 timer
[19:48:28] <maddash_________> you could use an fpga for that, and then things get a whole lot simpler for you
[19:49:01] <JymmmEMC> I saw one circuit that uses a 74HC123 to do it
[19:53:27] <JymmmEMC> screw it, too much work... I'll just buy pre-built =)
[19:54:16] <JymmmEMC> thanks guys, appreciate it!
[20:11:10] <fenn> jymmm most (all?) avr's have edge triggering
[20:11:50] <fenn> * fenn finishes reading scrollback
[20:15:28] <Skullworks-PGAB> Quote Roy J. Tellason: "Only a fool fears my weapons. The smart ones fear my library card."
[20:16:30] <fenn> a vacuum tube weenie
[20:18:22] <BOSS_> does anyone know of a keyboard with a built in pointing device thats waterproof
[20:20:15] <fenn> how bout these http://www.accesskeyboards.co.uk/tip.htm
[20:21:04] <fenn> btw the flexible silicone "roll up" keyboards suck to type on
[20:23:39] <SWPadnos> don't they?
[20:23:54] <SWPadnos> I tried a few, and the one I kept almost allowes touch typing
[20:24:08] <fenn> it seems that it only registers a key press if you push straight down
[20:24:11] <SWPadnos> but it's a very good idea to look at the screen before pressing enter
[20:24:34] <fenn> i really want a keyboard with backlighting for all the letters
[20:24:54] <fenn> too bad you cant get tritium paint anymore :P
[20:25:10] <SWPadnos> I saw some very nice ones on eBay a year or so ago. I should have bought a few, but they were either $100 or $200 each (don't remember)
[20:25:26] <SWPadnos> you can get glowy stuff online, I think
[20:25:30] <SWPadnos> it could be radium
[20:28:30] <fenn> i guess i could drill lots of tiny holes in the keys and put led's under them
[20:28:45] <SWPadnos> or you could get a cheaper illuminated keyboard
[20:28:54] <fenn> but i'm picky about keyboards ya know
[20:28:54] <SWPadnos> the expensive ones were stainless steel and had trackballs in them
[20:29:12] <SWPadnos> actual stainless keys even
[20:37:55] <JymmmEMC> fenn: backlit kybd http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/
[20:38:07] <fenn> yeah yeah and it's only $1000
[20:38:22] <JymmmEMC> fenn: $1600
[20:39:12] <fenn> "preorder" i guess that means you cant actually get one
[20:39:34] <fenn> how hard could it be to make a keyboard sheesh
[20:39:44] <fenn> they've been stalling for years now
[20:39:52] <SWPadnos> it depends on how many LCD displays are in it
[20:40:02] <fenn> they're OLED not LCD
[20:40:07] <SWPadnos> oh right
[20:40:12] <SWPadnos> it depends on how many OLED displays are in it
[20:40:35] <JymmmEMC> next lot due December 2007
[20:40:58] <SWPadnos> yep. I think the first ones went out last month or early this month
[20:43:29] <fenn> none of these keyboards have scroll wheels wtf
[20:44:06] <JymmmEMC> since when has ANY kybd come with a scroll wheel, it aint a mouse
[20:44:41] <SWPadnos> I have one with a volume knob
[20:44:50] <fenn> well if it's got a mouse built into it, you'd expect it to have a scroll wheel maybe
[20:45:22] <JymmmEMC> since when does it have a mouse?
[20:45:51] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/Multimedia-Keyboard-mouse-scroll-wheel-USB-port-new_W0QQitemZ230166719548QQihZ013QQcategoryZ4706QQcmdZViewItem
[20:45:58] <BOSS_> i found 1 like that but it was 550 dollars
[20:45:58] <SWPadnos> hmmm. maybe I should get that one
[20:46:05] <SWPadnos> $9.55
[20:46:24] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: you just want the DISCO light
[20:46:31] <SWPadnos> yeah, baby!
[20:46:44] <fenn> blind me baby yeah! its styliishhh
[20:46:48] <SWPadnos> funny - there's a scroll wheel but no pointer
[20:47:01] <BOSS_> yes,no pointer
[20:48:06] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/Smart-Office-Keyboard-Scroll-Wheel_W0QQitemZ220140380022QQihZ012QQcategoryZ4706QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
[20:48:13] <SWPadnos> illuminated keys, scroll wheel, not pointer
[20:48:18] <SWPadnos> no pointer
[20:50:45] <fenn> http://cgi.ebay.com/New-USB-MASSAGER-Massage-ball-for-ebay-Junkies-NIB-NR_W0QQitemZ290156546339QQihZ019QQcategoryZ4706QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[20:50:57] <fenn> teledildonics anyone?
[20:51:45] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:56:07] <JymmmEMC> lol http://newlinks.blogspot.com/2004/01/google-search.html
[20:58:11] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: You're just in the wrong business... you need to be developing usb sec toys!
[20:58:18] <JymmmEMC> s/c/x/
[20:58:31] <SWPadnos> how do you thikn I can afford CNC stuff?
[20:58:37] <SWPadnos> err - yeah, you're right
[20:59:12] <JymmmEMC> lol
[20:59:25] <SWPadnos> slightly related funny story
[20:59:54] <SWPadnos> we bought this house from a nice family. Mommy, Daddy, two kids, raised ranch - standard suburban kind of family
[21:00:48] <SWPadnos> about 2 months after we moved in, we got a notice from a domain registrar for the mother, telling her that the registration for her domain bestfree-sex.com was about to expire :)
[21:01:47] <fenn> so you renewed it? :)
[21:01:59] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:03:54] <JymmmEMC> fenn: Nope, he didn't. Neither did she it looks like =)
[21:04:09] <JymmmEMC> fenn: so it's available for you to register
[21:04:56] <JymmmEMC> Ya know, I'm always chicken of soldering/desoldering batteries fro a PCB
[21:05:19] <SWPadnos> I did that recently
[21:05:25] <SWPadnos> then I replaced the motherboard :)
[21:05:32] <JymmmEMC> lol
[21:05:53] <SWPadnos> actually, I replaced the whole computer. anyone need a large AT case with 900W triple redundant power supply?
[21:06:11] <JymmmEMC> triple?
[21:06:17] <JymmmEMC> never hear of triple
[21:06:27] <SWPadnos> yep. 3 modules at 300W each
[21:06:38] <SWPadnos> they're redundant at 600W, not at 900
[21:06:48] <SWPadnos> but you can use 900W if you like
[21:07:04] <JymmmEMC> ah. Does it have , P4 outputs?
[21:07:11] <JymmmEMC> s/,//
[21:07:17] <SWPadnos> those are on ATX supplies, no?
[21:07:28] <JymmmEMC> some
[21:07:34] <SWPadnos> but not on AT supplies
[21:07:51] <JymmmEMC> ah, I missed the X
[21:07:51] <SWPadnos> this is the case, except that I have 4 swivel casters and the triple power supply: http://www4.shopping.com/xPF-Antec-KS-011B-KS-011B-RPP3002
[21:08:34] <SWPadnos> when I stuck it in the garage, I Realized that it's probably big enough (and powerful enough, come to think of it) to use as a CNC controls cabinet
[21:09:23] <JymmmEMC> Yeah, just gut the drive bays
[21:09:52] <SWPadnos> all 9 of them ;)
[21:09:55] <SWPadnos> err - 19
[21:09:58] <JymmmEMC> On mine, the empty space is at the top, I'd prefer it to be at the bottom
[21:10:16] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: hot swap?
[21:10:39] <SWPadnos> this one hasthe supplies at the top, and room for a 12-slot motherboard (with all its PCI cards) on a removable base tray
[21:10:47] <SWPadnos> yes, I think it is hot swap
[21:11:02] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: so it has trays for all the hdd?
[21:11:05] <SWPadnos> each supply has a power switch. you switch it off, pull it, and stick in the new one
[21:11:16] <SWPadnos> oh - I thought you were talking about the power supply
[21:11:22] <SWPadnos> the drive bays are not hot-swap
[21:11:50] <SWPadnos> the 8 externally accessible ones are standard 5.25" half-height bays
[21:12:06] <fenn> i like jmk's sealed cabinet with an automobile air filter
[21:12:16] <SWPadnos> internally, there are 5 holders, each of which can take 2x3.5" drives (screwed in)
[21:12:52] <SWPadnos> and the floppy makes 19 :)
[21:13:52] <JymmmEMC> heh
[21:14:30] <JymmmEMC> Bah! I hate removing RF shields - always the fear of frying the PCB
[21:15:17] <fenn> * fenn hands jymmm a tinfoil hat
[21:16:07] <JymmmEMC> No thanks, like ly lead one better
[21:17:07] <fenn> bismuth? less toxic and it excludes low frequency magnetic fields
[21:17:27] <fenn> but still has enough heft to let you know it's "quality"
[21:17:29] <JymmmEMC> WTH?! Li-Ion rechargable button battery - never heard of such a thing.
[21:17:39] <fenn> uh, they've been around for decades
[21:17:51] <JymmmEMC> http://www.mi-europe.com/datasheets/SII/SII_Back_Up_Batteries.pdf
[21:18:06] <JymmmEMC> Not Li-Ion battereis, but button cell one
[21:18:42] <fenn> yeah that was the original application
[21:18:50] <JymmmEMC> ah, ok
[21:21:20] <JymmmEMC> Hmmmm... Am I brave enough to remove the inner RF shield - Na!
[21:23:17] <JymmmEMC> You know on some PCB's they have via's that connect between layers... Is it typically ok to take into the signal at those points (soldering), or can easily fsck it up?
[21:23:27] <JymmmEMC> s/take/tap/
[21:24:16] <jepler> I think that video game "modchips" are often soldered to vias, but that doesn't exactly answer your question...
[21:24:50] <JymmmEMC> jepler: That's close enough, way too many of those out there to rule it out.
[21:25:30] <fenn> the vias are usually done with electroless nickel, so you arent going to melt it apart or anything
[21:26:26] <JymmmEMC> These look brass/gold in color.
[21:26:47] <JymmmEMC> Hmmm, looks like a varnish clear coat on many of them
[21:27:25] <fenn> solder mask probably
[21:28:21] <JymmmEMC> By solder mask, you mean a coating where solder WONT flow?
[21:28:25] <jepler> I don't know any good tricks for getting soldermask off without hurting the traces below..
[21:28:52] <JymmmEMC> so this is some tough stuff it what you're saying
[21:29:03] <SWPadnos> carefully use an exacto knife. just scrape it across the soldermask, don't try to cut through r you're likely to cut the copper foil
[21:29:23] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: ok, will do.
[21:29:28] <SWPadnos> you can score it lightly around the boundary you want to clear, but do it very lightly
[21:29:56] <fenn> i bet there is a better place in the circuit
[21:30:04] <SWPadnos> soldermask is often fairly brittle, so if you can get through it somewhere, you can chip it out like paint
[21:30:11] <SWPadnos> but carefully ;)
[21:30:32] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: sorta like conformal coat?
[21:30:40] <SWPadnos> not really
[21:30:52] <SWPadnos> conformal coating is usually softer, like silicone sealant
[21:31:12] <JymmmEMC> Ususally I just burn thru conformal coat =)
[21:31:37] <SWPadnos> well, that's your choice ;)
[21:31:49] <SWPadnos> soldermask is mant to withstand the IR ovens and wave soldering though
[21:32:47] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I understand, so once I scrap off most of it (lightly), will even flux and a 20-50W soldering iron be enough to NOT get a colder solder joint?
[21:33:04] <SWPadnos> you want to be pretty sure you're down to copper
[21:33:07] <SWPadnos> just not throught it
[21:33:09] <SWPadnos> through
[21:33:49] <JymmmEMC> Heh, ok... I think I need a higher magnification loop 4x just won't cut it
[21:34:21] <JymmmEMC> err 8x won't I mean
[21:34:35] <SWPadnos> one million X! muahahahahaha
[21:35:18] <JymmmEMC> lol, maybe a 20X should do it. 8x is just at that point of not being sure I'd be able to scarp it and know that I got it all
[21:36:13] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC dusts off the microelectronics tools
[21:37:07] <JymmmEMC> Haven't touched these since the 80's... Now, where's my ceramic substraight for sharpening the tweezers
[21:37:34] <SWPadnos> geez. you don't need anything that specialized unless you're working with 0201 components
[21:37:45] <SWPadnos> just normal fine tweezers should do
[21:37:51] <fenn> did they even have 0201 in the 80's?
[21:38:01] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Heh, I used to work microelectronics at GD
[21:38:22] <JymmmEMC> Wire bond, Wire Pull, thin film, thick film, etc
[21:38:28] <SWPadnos> cool
[21:38:55] <tomp> On what m5i20 connector,pin is m5i20.0.in-00-not? Where can I find the document or source code that says that?
[21:39:04] <JymmmEMC> fenn: SM-1 Missile =)
[21:39:08] <SWPadnos> hmmm. document or source code ...
[21:39:15] <maddash_________> 16:18:22 <BOSS_> does anyone know of a keyboard with a built in pointing device thats waterproof <---- http://www.instructables.com/id/EJIXKOEF3ER7VN5/
[21:39:14] <tomp> either
[21:39:37] <SWPadnos> I think the motor connector is P2 (the closest to the slot cover)
[21:39:50] <SWPadnos> next is I/O 1 and auxiliary encoder inputs
[21:39:52] <SWPadnos> last is I/O 2
[21:40:24] <SWPadnos> I think this stuff isn't well documented. you more or less have to look at the pin file (unless someone massaged it into actual user documentation)
[21:40:30] <tomp> true, where does i/o begin? jmk has 'aux encoders' on P3 and has 'masks' on p4
[21:40:53] <SWPadnos> though you could get the manual from Mesa - EMC uses the Hostmot4 configuration, and the pinout for that is in the manual
[21:41:17] <SWPadnos> all even numbered pins are ground
[21:41:37] <SWPadnos> odd pins 1-47 are inputs 1-16 then outputs 1-8, per connector
[21:41:59] <tomp> the .PIN file doesnt spec it, and the i/o for mesa's is different (i think it's 12 joints , so just a mirror of P2 on P3 & P4 , all working with 7i33's )
[21:42:03] <tomp> i think
[21:42:11] <jepler> Connector P3
[21:42:11] <jepler> Encoder counters 4 - 7 work simultaneously with in-00 to in-11.
[21:42:31] <jepler> integrator handbook page 133 and 134
[21:42:37] <tomp> ? ? reference to mesa's pdf?
[21:42:43] <jepler> no, to emc's documentation
[21:42:43] <SWPadnos> excellent. it was added then - good
[21:42:47] <tomp> ok, will look
[21:42:58] <tomp> thanks
[21:42:58] <jepler> Applications > CNC > EMC2 Integrator Manual
[21:43:05] <jepler> the page numbers may vary from release to release, this is 2.1.7.
[21:46:02] <tomp> mrfg!! i spent all day looking thru mesa pdfs, .hal files and .PIN files and the answer is 'somewhere else'
[21:47:26] <tomp> thanks for the answer, but i dont see how hal can put >that< pin to >that< singal because the answer is in the intergrators manual. ( hal cant read the integrators manual )
[21:47:50] <SWPadnos> luckily, you can ;)
[21:52:54] <CIA-24> 03cmorley 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/ (arrays.c classicladder.c symbols_gtk.c): change so classicladdder removes temp directory when it closes/src/hal/classicladder/classicladder.c
[21:56:54] <jmkasunich_> jmkasunich_ is now known as jmkasunich
[21:58:59] <jmkasunich> digital cameras are fun - shoot 242 pics, then throw away 232 of them without wasting $$
[21:59:20] <SWPadnos> but you can only do that 10000 times before the flash wears out
[21:59:26] <SWPadnos> so it did cost 0.0273 cents :)
[21:59:34] <jmkasunich> oh well
[21:59:53] <SWPadnos> much less than 70 rolls of film+processing though
[22:00:04] <jmkasunich> I don't normally shoot that much, but today was the air show
[22:00:08] <SWPadnos> cool
[22:00:32] <jmkasunich> bright sunshine + shake reduction = 300mm tele usable hand-held
[22:00:34] <SWPadnos> I wish my wife hadn't grabbed the camera. I went to a friends party on a mountain - the views were spectacular
[22:03:34] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I always keep a camera in the car now - just for that reason
[22:03:55] <jmkasunich> I've been taking mine with me more often lately
[22:04:08] <jmkasunich> don't keep it there though
[22:04:31] <JymmmEMC> This is an older 2MP one, so not a biggy
[22:04:32] <CIA-24> 03cmorley 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/arrays.c: remove debug message
[22:04:33] <SWPadnos> I was going to grab the other one, but I noticed that the party started 2 hours earlier than I thought it did, so I left in a hurry
[22:05:32] <jmkasunich> one thing that was very frustrating today was autofocus
[22:05:55] <JymmmEMC> I caught a Gold VW bug the other day... It looked REALLY good, would have never thought of gold on a bug before.
[22:06:18] <jmkasunich> if you don't have the focus spot on target when you push the button, it tries to focos on sky, and winds up taking a second or more spinning back and forth
[22:06:38] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: what camera?
[22:06:47] <jmkasunich> pentax K10D
[22:07:36] <JymmmEMC> Ah, I have and adj for that on mine
[22:07:42] <JymmmEMC> s/and/an/
[22:08:12] <tomp> focus on something similar distance, dont press down all the way, pan to the real view, finish pressing ( locks the focus on some cameras )
[22:08:20] <jmkasunich> it would be nice to tell it "I will be shooting at stuff between infinity and 100 feet, don't wind all the way down to 6 feet trying to focus"
[22:08:39] <jmkasunich> tomp: easier said than done when the target is approaching at 200 knots
[22:08:44] <tomp> :)
[22:10:52] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/pics/tbirds-six-0704.JPG
[22:11:12] <CIA-24> 03cmorley 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/symbols_gtk.c: change so symbols list updates when symbol window is shown, so it displays properly when classicladder is loaded twice
[22:12:45] <jmkasunich> got a neat 5-shot sequence of the two solos joining up with the diamond to make the six
[22:15:05] <SWPadnos> or focus at/near infinity nad turn off AF
[22:15:09] <SWPadnos> and
[22:15:34] <SWPadnos> that's one of the things I don't like about point-and-shoot cameras and low end SLRs, lack of manual control
[22:16:42] <jmkasunich> I can turn AF off on mine (and I did for some shots)
[22:17:19] <jmkasunich> but there is a noticable difference between "at" and "near", and they way things were moving around, you can't really just set and forget
[22:17:48] <jmkasunich> and modern lenses are very touchy (very small fraction of a rev to focus) so it's hard to get it perfect manually
[22:18:15] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/pics/tbirds-diamonds-0662.JPG <-- afterburners
[22:18:56] <Ziegler> nice pic
[22:19:04] <fenn> jeez how far away was that?
[22:19:42] <jmkasunich> a few hundred feet probably
[22:20:37] <maddash_________> jmkasunich: how the heck is that possible? that plane must've been moving faster than a car, so if it were that close, you'd get insane amount of blur.
[22:20:49] <jmkasunich> I was tracking it
[22:21:10] <jmkasunich> and its a very bright day, average shutter speed was close to or above 1/1000th second
[22:22:41] <jmkasunich> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=east+9th+street+cleveland+ohio&sll=39.300299,-95.712891&sspn=37.965117,83.056641&ie=UTF8&ll=41.512723,-81.693134&spn=0.00903,0.020278&t=h&z=16&om=1
[22:22:50] <jmkasunich> see the ship in this picture?
[22:23:26] <jmkasunich> the pic is old - it has been moved just over one ship-length to the south-west - the next dock
[22:23:41] <jmkasunich> I was on it, and the air-show was running off the runway to the northeast
[22:25:44] <maddash_________> holy crap
[22:25:59] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:26:11] <jmkasunich> caught a pic of a plane pulling some Gs
[22:26:15] <SWPadnos> I should scan some of the photos I took on the aircraft carrier :)
[22:26:16] <maddash_________> how'd you get published to gmaps?
[22:26:29] <jmkasunich> maddash_________: huh?
[22:26:40] <maddash_________> oh, nvm
[22:26:55] <maddash_________> I thought I was supposed to look for the top of your head on the ship
[22:27:30] <jmkasunich> need a very good magnifying glass
[22:27:34] <jmkasunich> and a time machine
[22:27:51] <jmkasunich> the ship was moved several years ago, google hasn't caught up
[22:29:53] <fenn> there's one in jmk's basement somewhere
[22:29:54] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/pics/tbirds-pulling-G-0627.JPG
[22:30:07] <jmkasunich> check out the vortexes at the wing roots
[22:30:37] <SWPadnos> cool
[22:31:04] <SWPadnos> did you see the APOD shot with the massive vapor disc (as the plane crosse the sound barrier)?
[22:31:11] <jmkasunich> yeah
[22:31:12] <SWPadnos> reminds me of that
[22:31:28] <SWPadnos> not the same obviously, but still
[22:31:40] <jmkasunich> I've seen much stronger vapor clouds in the past
[22:31:53] <jmkasunich> not a strong cone like that APOD one, that only happens at mach
[22:32:02] <jmkasunich> but the entire wing covered
[22:32:12] <jmkasunich> during a high G pullup on a more humid day
[22:32:20] <SWPadnos> cool
[22:35:25] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/pics/f14-f86-0584.JPG
[22:35:33] <jmkasunich> old and new
[22:35:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:36:25] <jmkasunich> they also had an F18 super hornet flying with a Corsair, but that was winding up as I arrived, and I didn't get a shot
[22:37:45] <jmkasunich> ohh, I got F-14 diamonds too
[22:38:50] <jmkasunich> oops, thats not F14, its F15
[22:42:41] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/pics/airguard-stall-0522.JPG
[22:42:51] <jmkasunich> not everybody was going fast
[22:43:23] <jmkasunich> thats really freaky seeing a plane just falling
[22:44:30] <SWPadnos> better to be outside looking in ;)
[22:45:12] <jmkasunich> I wish I could have gotten better pics of the prop guys, but their routines keep them closer to the center of the flightline
[22:48:47] <jmkasunich> http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/pics/oracle-mono-0516.JPG
[22:48:57] <jmkasunich> software sponsoring airshows?
[22:50:15] <cradek> yay, I can recommend this 10" lcd touchscreen
[22:50:15] <jmkasunich> there was an oracle biplane too, but I didn't get any nice shots of it
[22:50:23] <cradek> it has a great picture and the touch part works well
[22:50:33] <jmkasunich> linux drivers available?
[22:50:45] <cradek> yes
[22:51:01] <SWPadnos> what's the resolution?
[22:51:02] <jmkasunich> what resolution?
[22:51:07] <cradek> 800x600
[22:51:11] <SWPadnos> bummer
[22:51:33] <cradek> well that's 100dpi... couldn't use too many more pixels on a 10" screen
[22:51:44] <SWPadnos> no, that's true
[22:52:00] <SWPadnos> my kiosk PC is 800x600, 12". I'm just to more pixels ;)
[22:52:05] <SWPadnos> just used to ...
[22:52:06] <cradek> it's a good match for AXIS
[22:57:25] <jmkasunich> last one: http://jmkasunich.dyndns.org/pics/f15-diamonds-0560.JPG
[23:17:05] <maddash_________> LCD TOUCHSCREEN!! WHERE?!
[23:20:42] <maddash_________> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[23:22:23] <fenn> settle down boy
[23:22:41] <fenn> there's plenty more on ebay
[23:22:56] <cradek> http://gooddeals18.com/product/SHK1040
[23:24:27] <fenn> Real Samsung Panel. Un real value
[23:25:48] <fenn> it says 1024x768 - how come you're getting 800x600?
[23:27:13] <cradek> 800x600 is native. but, it will scale.
[23:27:33] <BOSS__> can emc use a touch screen monitor?
[23:27:52] <cradek> emc doesn't care what kind of mouse you have
[23:28:08] <cradek> a touch screen monitor acts like a mouse, pretty much
[23:28:37] <BOSS__> so the touch screen takes place of monitor and mouse
[23:28:45] <cradek> yes
[23:29:30] <BOSS__> very interesting,have a retrofit coming up in a couple weeks at the local community college,may go touchscreen
[23:29:57] <cradek> I don't know yet if I recommend it
[23:30:14] <cradek> they are fragile and prone to scratching etc
[23:30:21] <JymmmEMC> wait a sec... touch PEN???
[23:30:39] <cradek> yes I think it did come with a stylus
[23:31:10] <JymmmEMC> USB iface - is that good or bad these days?
[23:31:20] <JymmmEMC> driver wise
[23:31:25] <cradek> I got it to work
[23:31:27] <BOSS__> a little nervous,havent used emc that much,but want to use it on this trade school deal,much safer than mach
[23:31:37] <jepler> "Cigarette connector"
[23:32:40] <JymmmEMC> it seems good, is that a good price?
[23:34:15] <JymmmEMC> cradek: did it come with a 120v to 12v power supply?
[23:34:50] <cradek> yes
[23:35:49] <BOSS__> swpadnos:u here
[23:35:51] <JymmmEMC> cradek: What are the outside max dimensions?
[23:36:45] <SWPadnos> BOSS__, sort of - working on an already late project though
[23:37:26] <BOSS__> just wanted to let ya know im prolly gonna get a usc next week
[23:37:38] <SWPadnos> ok.
[23:37:39] <SWPadnos> want mine? :)
[23:37:57] <BOSS__> ?
[23:38:04] <BOSS__> u got 1
[23:38:07] <JymmmEMC> $1 $1 $1 do I hear $1
[23:38:14] <SWPadnos> actually, you probably don't. I suspect I voided the warrantee when I replaced the IDC terminal blocks with pluggable ones :)
[23:38:22] <SWPadnos> yea, I have one
[23:39:28] <JymmmEMC> Who'll give me $1 for a starting bid
[23:39:34] <SWPadnos> me, me
[23:39:37] <BOSS__> gonna do a retrofit at the local trade school,gonna use a usc in it
[23:39:57] <JymmmEMC> I have $1... $2 $2 $2 do I hear $2
[23:40:17] <SWPadnos> me, me
[23:40:20] <BOSS__> or maybe the pwm board
[23:40:36] <SWPadnos> what drivers and motors do you have/expect to have?
[23:40:46] <JymmmEMC> I have $2 do I hear $4 $4 $4
[23:40:53] <SWPadnos> $444 - me, me
[23:41:12] <BOSS__> can go 2 diff ways,pacsi steppers with encoders and g203v drives
[23:41:23] <JymmmEMC> Sold! less me 10%... you owe me $44.40
[23:41:29] <BOSS__> or ec servos with pwm amps
[23:42:00] <SWPadnos> note that the USC can't count step pulses and encoder feedback - you have to choose one or the other (selectable per channel)
[23:42:41] <SWPadnos> if you need the faster step rates of the USC, then you won't be able to read the encoders in software either
[23:42:48] <BOSS__> thought the usc could run steppers with encoders
[23:43:10] <SWPadnos> it can run steppers, and you can put encoders on them if you want, but the USC can only feed back one count to EMC
[23:43:12] <lerman> For touchscreens, see: http://store.earthlcd.com/LCD-Products/Add-On-Touch-Screen-Kits
[23:43:31] <BOSS__> you lost me
[23:43:34] <SWPadnos> wither the step count (which should be position) or the encoder feedback (which EMC can't really use, since traditional PID doesn't work with steppers)
[23:43:38] <SWPadnos> s/wither/either/
[23:43:49] <JymmmEMC> lerman: 6.4 touch screen kit is $200, you can get the whole thing for $250
[23:43:49] <lerman> Good news: $200 for a 12 inch with rs232. Bad news: resistive touch screen.
[23:43:50] <SWPadnos> what do you hope to gain by using encoders on the steppers?
[23:43:52] <fenn> BOSS__: i wrote up a bit of theory that we have been discussing here: http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37309&page=2
[23:44:05] <SWPadnos> fenn, thanks
[23:44:07] <BOSS__> homing to index and ferror
[23:44:42] <lerman> I don't think a resistive screen would last too long in a shop, though.
[23:45:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> neither do std keyboards
[23:46:03] <SWPadnos> BOSS__, ok. I'm not sure the USC is what you want then. you should talk to Jon Elson about what you want to do, and what you expect the USC to do for you
[23:46:57] <SWPadnos> the USC tries to make a stepper look like a servo to EMC - EMC sends a velocity command to the USC, and it outputs steps at the right rate
[23:47:45] <SWPadnos> if the rate isn't perfect (due to the resolution of timing on the USC or something), then the actual number of steps output won't be exactly what EMC thinks it should have been, so it will take this into account when the next velocity is output
[23:48:06] <SWPadnos> to do that, EMC needs to know how many steps the USC has output
[23:48:27] <SWPadnos> fortunately, the USC keeps an internal position counter, which you can set to count the number of steps output
[23:48:55] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, that's the same internal counter that the USC uses to count encoder position
[23:49:26] <SWPadnos> so you will not be able to have both functions for the same motor
[23:50:15] <SWPadnos> you may be able to get away with just using the encoder feedback instead of the step count
[23:50:41] <BOSS__> this machine already has servos,may be better off to get the pwm board and amps
[23:50:59] <SWPadnos> I'd ask Jon if the index input is even used when the counter is set to internal step count mode - it may not be enabled
[23:51:06] <SWPadnos> heh - I'd say servos then :)
[23:51:07] <cradek> replacing working servos with steppers would be very foolish IMO
[23:51:16] <SWPadnos> agreed there
[23:51:30] <BOSS__> he told me it would home to index,say it on web page also
[23:51:47] <SWPadnos> it will, but I don't know if it will do that when configured for stepper motors
[23:52:03] <SWPadnos> I have one that I was going to use with gecko servo drives
[23:52:27] <SWPadnos> in that configuration, I'd set the USC to count encoder feedback, since that's really what I want from a servo
[23:52:39] <SWPadnos> (and it also works with index)
[23:53:12] <BOSS__> wouldnt the pwm board be better with servos
[23:53:25] <SWPadnos> vs the USC, I'd say so
[23:53:36] <SWPadnos> I don't have any experience with the PWM/PPMC boards though
[23:53:54] <BOSS__> thats what ill go with on this setup then,they are the same price
[23:54:05] <SWPadnos> or much with the USC either - the only time I had it powered up was when I was writing the encoder part of the driver :)
[23:54:25] <BOSS__> you wrote the driver
[23:54:49] <SWPadnos> no, John K wrote it. I just helped out by coding the encoder part
[23:54:55] <BOSS__> cool
[23:55:07] <SWPadnos> I happened to have one, so I was qualified ;)
[23:55:41] <BOSS__> so you have usc experience with gecko servo drives
[23:55:55] <SWPadnos> I have bench experience with those, yes
[23:55:55] <fenn> BOSS__ does the machine have drives in it already?
[23:56:30] <BOSS__> yes,but its an older hurco,everything is coming out
[23:56:51] <BOSS__> like the last 1 i did
[23:56:53] <Skullworks-PGAB> that the KM1B?
[23:57:39] <BOSS__> dont know for sure,if yall want some of the old stuff out of this i will let ya have it
[23:57:53] <SWPadnos> I'll take the servos ;)
[23:57:55] <BOSS__> otherwise it will be tossed
[23:57:58] <SWPadnos> oops - you need those
[23:58:06] <BOSS__> i was gonna take them,lol
[23:58:10] <SWPadnos> do you have a front panel for it?
[23:58:19] <fenn> oo oo stuff
[23:58:21] <SWPadnos> like with buttons and lights and stuff?
[23:58:22] <Skullworks-PGAB> does it have CMC seromate amps?
[23:58:27] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos likes blinkenlights
[23:58:30] <Skullworks-PGAB> servomate?
[23:58:39] <BOSS__> dont know for sure
[23:58:52] <BOSS__> if have some pics i can look at
[23:58:55] <SWPadnos> you should check that before buying hardware
[23:59:47] <BOSS__> the last 1 had drives that looked like big circuit boards in a card rack
[23:59:47] <SWPadnos> if you have drives that take analog command input, the Mesa 5i20 is also an option
[23:59:55] <jepler> playing with my extremely limited hal_input board (1 LED, 1 12-detent jogwheel with click as set up now) I sure start to understand why a nice front panel is desirable