#emc | Logs for 2007-08-25

[00:03:17] <toast> i'm not sure many home lathe users would want to change a A1 or A2 chuck on a regular basis
[00:30:12] <JymmmEMC> What.. I'm not suppose to just chuck up stock in my 3/8" cordless 7.2v drill tossed in vise horizontally and use it as a lathe?
[00:31:53] <JymmmEMC> Heh... looks like maddash needs a serious backup solution =) Isn't that twice he's done that; accidentally deleted the wrong thing?
[00:32:03] <toast> as the great Fight Club posited, sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken
[00:32:34] <JymmmEMC> toast: bacaw?!
[00:33:06] <JymmmEMC> toast: (that was a chicken sound)
[00:34:33] <toast> don't chickens cluck
[00:35:36] <JymmmEMC> bacaw == the sound they make when they have that strange curious look about them
[00:37:52] <toast> i see
[00:44:00] <CIA-24> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emccanon.cc: revert accidental change
[00:44:51] <robin_sz> thats one chicken noise, theres that other one they do as well
[00:45:00] <toast> i'm still wondering what spindle ds2 has
[00:45:14] <toast> he probably doesn't have a lathe from 1924
[00:45:19] <toast> so it's probably not a british taper
[00:45:27] <robin_sz> kazzzzzzzzrrrt ..
[00:45:33] <toast> i'm going to vote d1-4
[00:45:43] <toast> or something similar
[00:45:46] <ds2> toast: not necessarily
[00:45:58] <ds2> toast: Emco has a proprietary spindle nose
[00:46:04] <toast> ohhhhh
[00:46:13] <ds2> and from what i can tell, mine is a loose clone of that Emco
[00:46:20] <toast> not a d1 taper?
[00:46:25] <ds2> now i need to figure out how to measure a spindle taper
[00:46:26] <ds2> nope
[00:46:30] <toast> snap
[00:46:35] <ds2> it is a flange (3 screw holes) + a taper
[00:46:52] <toast> tapped?
[00:46:57] <ds2> nope
[00:47:14] <ds2> D series are all cam lock, right?
[00:47:16] <toast> does it have bolts that spin freely around the edge of the spindle
[00:47:21] <toast> yes
[00:47:46] <ds2> nope, there are studs on chuck and a nut behind the flange
[00:47:59] <toast> what happens when you rotate the nut
[00:48:06] <ds2> and it is not a Lxx as it doesn't have a retaining nut
[00:48:11] <JymmmEMC> sounds painful
[00:48:18] <ds2> eh? the nut unscrews and falls off =)
[00:48:27] <ds2> toast: ever seen the 7x10 lathe chuck mounts?
[00:48:44] <toast> the only "small" lathe spindles i've seen are the straight threaded ones
[00:48:54] <toast> the like, 1 1/2 by 8 tpi things
[00:49:08] <ds2> well, it looks kind of like this:
[00:49:10] <toast> everything else was some form of D1-3 or D1-4
[00:49:09] <ds2> http://www.mini-lathe.com/C6_lathe/Back_plate/backplate.htm
[00:49:16] <toast> and i have seen one small A1-3
[00:49:23] <ds2> that's not a 7x10 but it is the same idea
[00:49:36] <ds2> I suspect it is the propietary emco mount
[00:49:47] <toast> that's some kind of insanity, that right there
[00:50:01] <ds2> heheh
[00:50:20] <ds2> it was much less insane before I learned about D types or L type mounts ;)
[00:50:35] <toast> of all the mounts to have, A are the hardest to deal with
[00:50:40] <toast> even though they seem simplist
[00:50:41] <ds2> and yes, it is a major pain getting the chuck mounted
[00:50:49] <toast> okay that spindle, to me
[00:51:00] <toast> looks like it's a chuck backplate on a 1 1/2 x 8 tpi
[00:51:08] <toast> unless that's one solid unit
[00:51:11] <ds2> it is one solid unit
[00:51:21] <ds2> with a MT3 socket in the middle
[00:51:50] <toast> how does the chuck attach?
[00:52:07] <toast> i just don't understand how that holds anything
[00:52:27] <ds2> take a look at this page:
[00:52:31] <ds2> http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_lathe/Chucks/chucks.htm
[00:52:58] <toast> wow
[00:53:00] <toast> that's painful
[00:53:39] <ds2> that is a picture of an import lathe so pain is expected
[00:53:51] <ds2> in my case, it is a lathe from jolly old england
[00:53:59] <toast> you know what helps tighening those kind of things
[00:54:08] <toast> a piece of wood between the ways and the chuck jaw
[00:54:16] <toast> at least for bigger chucks
[00:54:29] <toast> maybe since you can hold the chuck in one hand it is easier
[00:54:40] <ds2> a chuck key seems to be sufficient
[00:55:20] <toast> are you looking at buying more chucks for the lathe
[00:55:56] <toast> do they make two-part jaws for small lathes?
[00:55:59] <toast> hmm
[00:56:00] <ds2> kind of...I am looking to be able to get accessories like a face plate of an external mount collet chuck
[00:56:08] <ds2> never seen 2 part jaws for something that small
[00:57:31] <ds2> an external mounted ER40 chuck would be idea I think
[00:57:44] <toast> er40 versus 5C?
[00:58:09] <ds2> yes but 5C means I have to have a large set to cover the range along with some soft collets
[00:58:19] <toast> that's true
[00:58:21] <ds2> ER40 lets me cover 1" - 0" in just a small set
[00:58:33] <ds2> plus ER40 uses less of my bed length then 5C
[00:58:41] <toast> that is very true.
[00:59:15] <ds2> the lathe itself is pretty nice, ball screws all around, '34 steppers premounted
[00:59:43] <ds2> just need a nice (ideally) automatic collet holder + a turret
[01:00:17] <toast> do they make er40 auto chucks?
[01:00:25] <ds2> no idea
[01:00:32] <toast> that's why they use 5c and 16c
[01:00:36] <toast> because you can power them
[01:00:51] <ds2> 16C? think that crash into the bed of the lathe ;)
[01:01:03] <toast> but i've always needed a spanner wrench to close er chucks
[01:01:07] <toast> haha, probably
[01:01:21] <ds2> so have I
[01:01:23] <toast> all our lathes have either 5c or 16c internal tapers
[01:01:33] <toast> much more useful than a morse, imho
[01:01:38] <ds2> *nod*
[01:01:48] <toast> though i don't quite like the nose being exposed to the chips
[01:01:58] <ds2> or I can get a 3C setup that will fit inside the spindle
[01:02:03] <toast> 2.5c
[01:02:11] <toast> is there a 3c?
[01:02:17] <ds2> the xC's are nice in that you cna get hex and square
[01:02:32] <toast> yeah
[01:02:32] <ds2> yep 3C's seems to be pretty common with the tiny lathes
[01:02:54] <toast> wow, we have 3c's but they're labelled 2.5c
[01:03:02] <toast> i wonder if they're the same
[01:03:04] <ds2> I am willing to give an automatic 3C a shot if I can figure out how to get such a thing or build it
[01:03:07] <toast> same form factor
[01:03:47] <toast> use a thrust bearing and pneumatic ram
[01:03:55] <ds2> turret + automatic 3C would let me do tiny production runs from hex stock
[01:04:00] <ds2> what's a pnematic ram?
[01:04:06] <toast> an uh
[01:04:07] <toast> air ram?
[01:04:10] <toast> cylinder thing?
[01:04:14] <ds2> what is an airram?
[01:04:19] <toast> like a hydraulic ram?
[01:04:23] <ds2> cylinder? aren't those more like a spring
[01:04:34] <toast> they can be
[01:04:49] <toast> but if you put enough pressure in it or use a large cylinder
[01:04:59] <toast> it will automate the collet
[01:05:03] <ds2> Hmmm
[01:05:07] <toast> the ones i've seen
[01:05:14] <toast> have this thrust bearing attached to the drawbar tube
[01:05:24] <ds2> of course that means I have to get an air setup
[01:05:25] <toast> which has the draw thread for 3c/5c/16c
[01:05:40] <toast> and then, on the other side of the thrust bearing, is a lever
[01:05:45] <ds2> was thinking more of a solenoid or like to avoid having a compressor around
[01:05:51] <toast> hmm
[01:05:56] <toast> what about a big spring?
[01:05:57] <jmkasunich> solenoids are usually quite weak
[01:06:08] <toast> you'd have to sit there and do it by hand though
[01:06:08] <ds2> hmm okay
[01:06:29] <toast> anything that will apply a sufficent amount of force on the drawbar lever will keep the collet closed
[01:06:34] <ds2> seems like a decent air setup will cost $$$
[01:06:42] <toast> the nice thing about using air or hydraulics is that you can vary the clamping force
[01:06:50] <toast> to do very gentle thin tube stuff, or very hard roughing
[01:06:56] <jmkasunich> not really that much $$$
[01:07:07] <toast> use a little pancake compressor
[01:07:08] <jmkasunich> cylinders don't consume that much air, compared to air tools, sprayers, etc
[01:07:10] <ds2> hmm what about a motor to drive a cam lock, kind of like those royal leveler operated 5C closers?
[01:07:19] <toast> you need a mechanism to vary the pressure
[01:07:31] <toast> what you're suggesting will work, hardinge uses it
[01:07:35] <jmkasunich> keep in mind that collet closers need a force of several hundred pounds
[01:07:41] <ds2> Hmmmm I need to got see one of these cylinders you speak of... what I am thinking of is a thing that hisses like crazy
[01:07:41] <toast> but they've got that threaded collar on it
[01:08:04] <ds2> yeah... just like the manual closers
[01:08:15] <toast> yeah
[01:08:21] <ds2> set it to the right tension and let it release and close by itself
[01:08:26] <toast> jmkasunich: the collet closers use a lever to get the force
[01:08:35] <toast> so you can use shop air pressure, 90-120 psi
[01:08:44] <toast> and still get a ton of force on the other end
[01:08:47] <jmkasunich> right
[01:09:00] <jmkasunich> I was referring to the solenoid or motor driven versions
[01:09:09] <toast> oh
[01:09:13] <ds2> maybe I am too green with this pnuematic stuff but it seems that every thing I looked at requires a higher CFM rate then most cheap compressors can deliver
[01:09:21] <toast> uh, it's a fixed volume
[01:09:23] <jmkasunich> what specifically were you looking at?
[01:09:25] <toast> once you put air into it, it's sealed
[01:09:31] <toast> http://cgi.ebay.com/ORTMAN-PNEUMATIC-RAM-3-25-X-1-00_W0QQitemZ130047468809QQihZ003QQcategoryZ48718QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
[01:09:34] <toast> like one of those
[01:09:46] <ds2> jmkasunich: the motor would drive a gear or something like that to actuate a lever
[01:09:47] <jmkasunich> thats a strong one
[01:10:13] <toast> well, that just means you have a wide range of force you can apply
[01:10:36] <jmkasunich> 8.29" of piston area, so 600+ lbs of force at 80 psi
[01:10:47] <ds2> something like this was what I looked at: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47407
[01:10:50] <toast> 8.28?
[01:10:57] <toast> oh, you're right
[01:11:03] <toast> what about 2 psi
[01:11:15] <jmkasunich> 2? ;-)
[01:11:21] <toast> he's going to have to use a regulator no matter what
[01:11:37] <toast> so he'll be able to set it to 2 psi or 80, it won't matter how big the piston is
[01:11:41] <jmkasunich> right
[01:11:55] <jmkasunich> I wasn't saying that 8.29" was a bad thing
[01:12:00] <toast> ah, i thought you were
[01:12:03] <toast> my apologies
[01:12:29] <ds2> a working turret changer is more important the closer
[01:12:35] <jmkasunich> ds2: compressors are rated by pressure and flow rate
[01:12:55] <jmkasunich> a cylinder like that ebay one will only require 20-50 PSI, any compressor can do that
[01:13:09] <ds2> Hmmm
[01:13:09] <jmkasunich> and cylinders only consume air when actually moving, not all the time
[01:13:30] <jmkasunich> (unless something is leaky)
[01:14:00] <jmkasunich> if I was designing a collet closer from scratch, I'd use a stack of bellville spring washers to close the collet, and a cylinder to open it
[01:14:06] <ds2> that ebay thing is not like the hissing things I've seen elsewhere
[01:14:09] <jmkasunich> that way you don't need any air when running
[01:14:22] <toast> with a screw adjustment for pressure?
[01:14:31] <ds2> and that'd be safe against pressure lost while running
[01:14:40] <jmkasunich> toast: didn't think about adjustment for pressure
[01:14:57] <jmkasunich> I was thinking of the design used on the Mazak (and many other mills) for drawbar
[01:15:15] <toast> ds2: the only pressure loss you have to worry about on a air chuck is in the cylinder itself
[01:15:18] <toast> the cylinder has to fail
[01:15:27] <jmkasunich> having the tool and holder fly out of the spindle because of an air pressure drop is a bad thing, so they use the spring design
[01:15:32] <toast> if your system loses air, it doesn't matter until you go to open it and can't close it again
[01:15:57] <ds2> Hmmmm
[01:16:02] <ds2> I like the belleville disc idea
[01:16:14] <toast> whatever you do, it is very important you have some provision for pressure
[01:16:18] <toast> either a stack of springs you can add and remove
[01:16:29] <jmkasunich> toast is right about the pressure tho, if you turn delicate parts, you'll want to be able to reduce the pressure
[01:16:32] <ds2> I don't see why I can't compress the disc to open it with a cam though
[01:16:41] <jmkasunich> with air its easy, just turn the regulator knob
[01:16:42] <toast> you can open it however you want
[01:16:50] <toast> small team of mules
[01:16:53] <toast> solar power
[01:17:01] <ds2> still trying to avoid pneumatics
[01:17:03] <toast> but closing it, you need at least a couple pressure selections
[01:17:13] <toast> i like the spring ideas you guys have
[01:17:20] <ds2> right but the spring washers are almost idiot proof
[01:17:25] <toast> but you will have to either give it a screw adjustment
[01:17:32] <ds2> reduce clamping force? unscrew the collet a little
[01:17:35] <jmkasunich> ds2: just keep in mind that you need a lot of force - a well designed cam will do it, but a not-so-good design will need a lot of motor torque
[01:18:02] <ds2> jmkasunich: always the possibility of using a gear train on top of it
[01:18:11] <jmkasunich> yep
[01:18:20] <toast> or you use a constant rise cam
[01:18:21] <ds2> or a lever on top of the gear train
[01:18:35] <toast> and just reverse it to close it again
[01:18:40] <ds2> this sounds easier then trying to design a 4 tool turret :(
[01:18:42] <toast> instead of making a full 360
[01:19:19] <jmkasunich> how big is the spindle hole on your lathe?
[01:19:27] <ds2> forget about degree counts... if I have a lever, I'll trip a microswitch to let me know when it is open or closed
[01:19:34] <jmkasunich> are we talking 5C with 1-1/4" drawtube, or something smaller
[01:19:39] <toast> ds2: that was kind of implied
[01:19:42] <ds2> ~3/4" so 3C is native
[01:20:07] <ds2> toast: ah... thought you were thinking of a stepper thing
[01:20:23] <toast> nar
[01:20:30] <toast> i'm just saying that's a very gentle cam design
[01:20:31] <CIA-24> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/lib/python/rs274/glcanon.py: remove debugging statements
[01:20:52] <toast> slowest rise/lowest torque
[01:21:39] <jmkasunich> Mcmaster P/N 9712K86, 3/4" ID bellville spings, 0.024" travel each spring, 400 lbs flat, pack of 12 for $6.16
[01:22:14] <jmkasunich> stack all 12 in series for 0.288 travel
[01:22:18] <toast> and then you can use power chucks too
[01:22:29] <toast> though i'm not sure if there's a power chuck with a 3c draw tube
[01:23:41] <jmkasunich> another nice thing about the spring approach - the actuator (cam, cylinder, whatever) doesn't apply force while the spindle is turning, so the requirements on the thrust bearing are much simpler
[01:24:10] <ds2> yep, I really like the simplicity of springs
[01:24:22] <ds2> toast: I don't like chucks
[01:24:45] <toast> really?
[01:24:55] <toast> air chucks are amazing, dude
[01:25:00] <ds2> yes
[01:25:14] <ds2> can't take out and replace parts w/o loosing concentricity
[01:25:16] <toast> although i guess we do a lot of stuff that doesn't fit in collets
[01:26:04] <toast> yeah, i guess i agree in hindsight
[01:26:18] <toast> i do usually reach for a collet when i'm on a lathe
[01:26:23] <toast> if it's collet sized
[01:26:28] <ds2> *nod*
[01:26:39] <ds2> but for an 8" lathe, most things are collet sized ;)
[01:26:41] <toast> the 25c collets at work are nice
[01:27:05] <toast> the irony at school though
[01:27:11] <toast> is they have boxes and boxes of collets
[01:27:20] <toast> and uh, no collet noses
[01:28:30] <ds2> heh
[01:31:59] <jmkasunich> http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007082420223105&item=5-1417&catname=
[01:32:08] <jmkasunich> 20 in-lbs at 47 RPM
[01:32:22] <jmkasunich> about 3/4 of second to turn one half rev to lock or unlock
[01:32:38] <jmkasunich> but I'm not sure if 20 in-lbs into a low-rise cam will deliver the force you need
[01:33:25] <ds2> using those you quoted earlier.. that would put it about 2500lb to open it
[01:33:32] <jmkasunich> ?
[01:33:37] <jmkasunich> no, stack the springs in series
[01:33:58] <ds2> series doesn't add up all the deform values like a resistor?
[01:33:59] <jmkasunich> 400 lb springs in series means 400 lbs, but with more travel
[01:34:07] <ds2> Oh
[01:34:16] <ds2> those were about 220 lb springs
[01:34:31] <jmkasunich> http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/113/gfx/small/9712kl2ws.gif
[01:34:39] <jmkasunich> "series" = "stacked inverted"
[01:34:49] <ds2> ah
[01:34:56] <ds2> I am still thinking of coil springs
[01:35:26] <ds2> at 20 in-lb, I can do it with a 12 inch lever
[01:35:57] <jmkasunich> longer lever means less force but more travel
[01:36:04] <ds2> not sure how a cam works though
[01:36:16] <ds2> yes, but for this application, that isn't too critical
[01:36:34] <jmkasunich> if you want 0.1" of travel at the spindle, and 300 lbs, you can get 0.3" of travel at the lever end, and 100 lbs, etc
[01:36:35] <ds2> wonder if it is about equivalent to the circumfernce of the cam
[01:37:08] <ds2> that would put it at around a 3inch or so cam
[01:37:41] <jmkasunich> for a cam (or an eccentric, which is the approach I'd probably take), the force (max, neglecting friction) is equal to the torque in in-lbs divided by the throw in inches I think
[01:37:48] <jmkasunich> the total travel = 2x the throw
[01:38:15] <jmkasunich> so a 20 in-lb motor, with an eccentric with 0.1" of throw, could move 200 lbs over 0.2 inches
[01:38:18] <jmkasunich> I think
[01:38:30] <jmkasunich> use a 2:1 lever on top of that and you have 400 lbs over 0.1"
[01:39:03] <ds2> this sounds so simple...wonder why it isn't used much
[01:39:06] <jmkasunich> eccentric is easier to make, and if you use a bearing between the eccentric and the "follower", it will have much lower friction than a cam
[01:39:30] <toast> ds2: the lever method is easier to make
[01:39:35] <toast> i just don't know the math involved
[01:39:45] <jmkasunich> real shops have air - an air cylinder is cheaper than a motor + limit switch (to control 1/2 turn movement) + cam, etc
[01:39:53] <toast> cam and lever/linkage are the exact same in principle, just different implementations
[01:40:43] <ds2> I suppose another possibility is to thread and have a moving nut to do this and engage the nut with a clutch
[08:31:37] <maddash> anyone here?
[08:33:50] <maddash> g92?!
[08:38:57] <JymmmEMC> maddash: No, now go rm -rf /* some more files
[08:41:18] <maddash> :(
[08:41:26] <maddash> I solved that problem, actually
[08:41:37] <JymmmEMC> maddash: You came up with a backup solution?
[08:42:26] <maddash> echo "alias rm='mv -t ${HOME}/.trash/ $@' " >> ${HOME}/.bashrc
[08:42:40] <maddash> && mkdir ${HOME}/.trash
[08:43:04] <maddash> hm, did anyone laugh at me?
[08:43:07] <maddash> * maddash checks the logs
[08:43:08] <JymmmEMC> lol =) Just don't use the -rf flags =)
[08:43:14] <JymmmEMC> hell yes I laughed at you
[08:43:34] <JymmmEMC> but I suggested that you need a backup system in place
[08:43:35] <maddash> JymmmEMC: no, the alias I made are -rf -proof
[08:44:11] <JymmmEMC> maddash: add a lil 1day/1week/1month backup to your alias =)
[08:44:22] <maddash> backups are for weenies
[08:44:24] <maddash> :P
[08:44:30] <JymmmEMC> maddash: you weenie!
[08:45:26] <maddash> actually, you're right -- it'd really help if I had a backup of the lost code
[08:47:05] <maddash> "G0X0; G01X5 ; G92X0 ; G01X3" bring me to x=3 or x=8?
[08:47:09] <maddash> does ^^
[08:47:41] <maddash> i'm bored, so i'm reinventing the wheel by creating a new gui
[08:47:41] <JymmmEMC> what's G92?
[08:47:56] <maddash> "set work offset" in the regular guis
[08:48:09] <JymmmEMC> x==8 (actual)
[08:48:13] <maddash> ie, clicking on the coordinate labels
[08:48:40] <JymmmEMC> you start at 0, move to 5, reset the counter, then move 3 more
[08:48:48] <JymmmEMC> 5+3=8
[08:48:51] <JymmmEMC> iiuc
[08:49:15] <maddash> crap, this makes things worse, then
[08:50:38] <maddash> because my next question would be how loading a tool table is different from manually punching G92
[08:51:05] <JymmmEMC> that is out of my reealm of knowledge
[08:53:42] <maddash> damn, this coordinate system business is confusing
[08:54:04] <JymmmEMC> you letting the numbers get the best of you?
[08:54:18] <maddash> you've got the usual work offset (g92), tool offset, and then "Touch off" (g10) -- how are each of these different? geez.
[08:54:39] <maddash> no, it's just the way the numbers are used
[08:54:49] <maddash> maybe i'll wait for jepler or cradek to show up
[08:55:24] <JymmmEMC> It's best to understand the reasoning/purpose for each function. They wouldn't knowling duplicate a function (I'd hope) without having a reason for it.
[08:55:45] <JymmmEMC> That should make things easier to understand.
[08:56:15] <JymmmEMC> It's like trying to understand why something is stated in an RFC.
[08:57:09] <maddash> that's the way my mind works
[08:57:24] <maddash> funny --- you do it too?
[08:57:41] <maddash> deducing structure from function, I mean
[08:57:45] <JymmmEMC> I leanr from doing, not theory
[08:58:20] <JymmmEMC> Once I understnad the principals, I can extrapolant everything from there as well as other things/feature/applications/etc.
[08:58:48] <maddash> true, but abstract theories kick ass in some ways that procedural learning can't
[08:59:32] <JymmmEMC> bullshit
[08:59:38] <maddash> fuck -- add G43 to the above mess
[09:00:09] <JymmmEMC> If I knew trig, then I might consider the potential
[09:00:39] <JymmmEMC> DAMNIT! I ordered my gps at 3pm today, wth is it!!!!
[09:01:20] <maddash> wait till it gets dark, and use the stars like the rest of us cavemen
[09:02:30] <maddash> heh, art fennerty just suggested emc to me
[09:02:51] <JymmmEMC> the bb guy?
[09:04:19] <toast> maddash: have you looked into emc?
[09:04:23] <toast> IT SEEMS INTERESTING
[09:04:41] <JymmmEMC> Electro Magnetic Cryptography?
[09:05:13] <maddash> Encyclopedic Memory for Chicks
[09:05:15] <JymmmEMC> Electro Magnetic Chipmunk!
[09:05:51] <maddash> chicks dig cnc guys
[09:06:19] <maddash> that's why I always bring a laptop loaded with AXIS to parties
[09:06:19] <JymmmEMC> Ya, they love the smell of solvent and coolant
[09:06:45] <maddash> true. how ironic that coolant gets them hot.
[09:08:26] <toast_> this is ridiculous.
[09:08:45] <JymmmEMC> All right, it's been 90 seconds since I last asked.... WTH is my gps damnit!
[09:09:09] <maddash> toast_: is it true that you can't seed files on bittorrent?
[09:09:49] <toast_> i dunno?
[09:09:52] <toast_> i haven't noticed it at all
[09:10:16] <toast_> all the ratios on my recent torrents, when left unattended, wound up at like 5:1
[09:10:19] <toast_> u/d
[09:10:37] <toast_> so if comcast is doing it, they aren't doing it here
[09:10:45] <toast_> and i don't see any rst crap on wireshark
[09:11:12] <maddash> wow, you're more savvy than I expected
[09:11:31] <toast_> huh?
[09:11:41] <toast_> oh
[09:11:49] <toast_> yeah i used to do a lot of network stuff at work.
[09:11:58] <maddash> reeally? what about ettercap?
[09:12:05] <toast_> yessir
[09:12:40] <toast_> not much use for it at my first place
[09:13:00] <toast_> but i used it at home and at school
[09:13:09] <maddash> hm, I always thought that SSL connections were secure, until I read about ettercap
[09:13:42] <toast_> well, as long as you don't connect to it when it tells you the key changed
[09:13:42] <toast_> it is secure
[09:14:20] <maddash> heh. so ettercap can't attack existing SSL sessions?
[09:14:25] <toast_> correct
[09:14:49] <toast_> ettercap hijacks the ssl connection as it is opened
[09:15:05] <toast_> then opens another ssl connection to the endpoint
[09:15:14] <JymmmEMC> maddash: You HAVE to already have the key, to prevent MITM attcks
[09:15:15] <toast_> if you don't accept the new key, or use a public key repository
[09:15:25] <toast_> you're okay
[09:15:46] <toast_> or alternatively, if you are very concerned about mitm, use kerberos RSH
[09:15:50] <toast_> rather than ssh
[09:17:14] <maddash> actually, i'm less concerned about being a mitm victim than I am about initiating one. :)
[09:17:21] <toast_> hahaha
[09:17:43] <toast_> the other issue with mitm is sucessfully hijacking the gateway
[09:17:48] <JymmmEMC> And thus why we dont let you access the good stuff.
[09:18:25] <maddash> that's not really an option when the gateway is something like "gmail.com"
[09:18:26] <toast_> for instance, the router at school spammed ARP when it saw someone else try to take it ip
[09:18:37] <maddash> oh, that gateway
[09:18:37] <toast_> maddash: not that gateway, the gateway off the local network
[09:18:41] <toast_> to your isp
[09:18:46] <maddash> whoa...
[09:19:05] <toast_> what?
[09:19:38] <maddash> ARP is the "Who has ***.***.***.***? ----- *.*.*.* is at [mac addr]" kind of message, right?
[09:19:39] <toast_> that's not really an issue, most people who want to do an mitm attack are just dealing with someone's linksys box
[09:19:42] <toast_> yes
[09:20:26] <toast_> that's the key to a mitm attack
[09:20:30] <toast_> sending out fake arp crap
[09:20:41] <toast_> and hoping the host doesn't do what the router at my highschool did
[09:20:52] <toast_> which is send out a hundred arp announce messages
[09:20:53] <maddash> and hoping that the target recognizes the fake arp instead of the real one?
[09:21:08] <toast_> the target remembers the last announce it saw
[09:21:14] <toast_> it does not cache like dns
[09:21:26] <toast_> so you can get into a war with another host over the same ip
[09:21:39] <JymmmEMC> toast_: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~hildrum/kerberos/
[09:21:49] <maddash> rofl
[09:21:49] <maddash> 'war'
[09:22:26] <toast_> that's what it is
[09:22:32] <maddash> clothes are done. gotta pass out. didn't know you two were so familiar with network security. I have so much to learn from you. brb.
[09:22:38] <toast_> lol
[09:22:46] <toast_> JymmmEMC:
[09:22:48] <toast_> reading
[09:23:03] <JymmmEMC> Yes maddash, NetBIOS is a routable and secure protocol.
[09:23:15] <toast_> lol
[09:23:29] <toast_> it is routable as long as you're using an ethernet bridge :o
[09:23:34] <JymmmEMC> toast_: that was a link from here: http://www.gnu.org/software/shishi/manual/html_node/Kerberized-rsh-and-rlogin.html
[09:24:17] <toast_> cool
[09:25:03] <JymmmEMC> toast_: you read linux journal?
[09:25:14] <toast_> i would say i skim linux journal
[09:25:29] <toast_> i think that's the magazine i get
[09:25:38] <toast_> some random linux mag
[09:25:59] <JymmmEMC> ther'es an article (couple months back) on SBA, en enhancement on port knocking
[09:26:40] <toast_> what was the gist of it
[09:26:43] <toast_> i certainly didn't see it
[09:26:58] <toast_> how is it enhancing port knocking
[09:27:12] <JymmmEMC> prevent relay attack for one
[09:27:19] <JymmmEMC> replay
[09:27:24] <toast_> ah
[09:27:26] <JymmmEMC> encryption
[09:27:34] <toast_> also re: krb
[09:27:38] <JymmmEMC> and to prevent MITM (iirc)
[09:27:41] <toast_> can't you use stronger vpn stuff
[09:27:48] <toast_> and authenticate with krb5
[09:28:01] <toast_> and just regular ol' rsh over that
[09:28:14] <JymmmEMC> I trust nobody
[09:28:34] <toast_> i know a lot of dudes who trust krb5 for a lot of stuff
[09:28:42] <toast_> insofar as anything can really be trusted
[09:28:49] <toast_> when you have work to do, anyway
[09:29:28] <JymmmEMC> this issue: http://www.linuxjournal.com/issue/156
[09:29:37] <JymmmEMC> err SPA, not SBA
[09:29:45] <toast_> i don't think i got that one
[09:29:48] <JymmmEMC> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9565
[09:29:49] <toast_> it still shows up at my parent's house
[09:29:53] <toast_> and they ship it here
[09:29:54] <toast_> in batches
[09:30:00] <toast_> with other crap
[09:30:28] <JymmmEMC> that link is the whole article (it looks like)
[09:30:48] <toast_> cool
[09:30:52] <toast_> it does seem that way
[09:32:43] <toast_> anyway i'm a machinist now and don't have to ever deal with anyone in computer science again
[09:32:49] <toast_> and with that i go to bed!
[09:32:54] <toast_> goodnight sir
[09:32:54] <JymmmEMC> ditto
[10:18:02] <Fox_Muldr> hi
[10:19:22] <Fox_Muldr> can i ask a few questions about emc? :)
[10:22:37] <Fox_Muldr> ok, it seems everybody is asleep. i try it in about 10 hours again. maybe the different timezone makes it a bit difficult ;)
[10:22:59] <Fox_Muldr> Fox_Muldr is now known as Fox_M|afk
[10:56:56] <alex_> alex_ is now known as the_ball
[10:57:43] <the_ball> the_ball is now known as The_Ball
[14:28:06] <fenn> ugh neither lynx or w3m accept html on stdin
[14:28:15] <fenn> what are they thinking!
[14:30:31] <fenn> like, why would i be using a html browser if i didnt want to format the html
[15:09:36] <fenn> stonyfield farms raspberry frozen yogurt has a cow with a red monocle on the package, presumably trying to look sophisticated and color coordinated with the raspberry. so i made a little button that says 'you will be assimooolated' with the cow. now i can just imagine having to explain that it's funny because it's a borg cow and getting "i dont get it. what's a borg cow?"
[15:35:00] <fenn> http://fenn.dyndns.org/sketches/borg-cow.jpg
[17:11:58] <CIA-24> 03fenn 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/ (motion.9 iocontrol.9): I took the stuff from docs/src/config/emc2hal.lyx and made a real manpage out of it. also started writing descriptions and completed some incompletions
[17:13:24] <CIA-24> 03fenn 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/ (axis.9 io.9): symlinks for common search attempts for manpages
[17:14:14] <skunkworks> fenn: it is funny:)
[17:18:28] <fenn> writing man pages is hard :(
[17:27:19] <Fox_Muldr> hi
[17:28:27] <fenn> welcome
[17:28:43] <Fox_Muldr> someone alive who can maybe help me with an emc problem? :)
[17:28:48] <Fox_Muldr> ah hi :)
[17:28:50] <fenn> it is saturday, that's why there arent so many people around
[17:29:10] <fenn> fyi it's better to just ask than to ask to ask
[17:29:29] <Fox_Muldr> hehe you are right
[17:30:05] <Fox_Muldr> my problem is, that after an upgrade to 2.1.7 emc crashes, when i want to start with most of the sample configurations
[17:30:22] <fenn> does it really crash? or it just won't start
[17:30:53] <Fox_Muldr> it shows the splashscreen and than it says that a failure has happend and shows me many log information
[17:31:08] <fenn> ok, what is the first failure?
[17:31:49] <Fox_Muldr> in the appearing log message i didn't find any usefull information for analyzing the problem
[17:31:54] <skunkworks> Fox_Muldr: what version did you upgrade from?
[17:32:17] <fenn> could you post the log to pastebin.ca for us?
[17:32:19] <Fox_Muldr> 2.1.0 to 2.1.7
[17:32:38] <Fox_Muldr> i can show you the log on my webserver if you want
[17:32:42] <fenn> ok
[17:33:03] <Fox_Muldr> https://quakeman.homelinux.net/files/cnc/
[17:33:23] <Fox_Muldr> there are many text files which is a copy&paste of the log messages
[17:33:31] <Fox_Muldr> the text file name is the name of the sample template i used
[17:34:36] <Fox_Muldr> some, but not many ini templates still work and emc starts
[17:35:59] <fenn> _tkinter.TclError: Togl: X server has no OpenGL GLX extension
[17:36:15] <Fox_Muldr> for testing purposes i downloaded the latest live-cd with 2.1.6 and boot from this cd and it works with all templates
[17:36:25] <fenn> i think all these config files use axis
[17:36:35] <Fox_Muldr> but than why does the live-dvd work and the installed version not?
[17:37:12] <fenn> its missing an opengl library for some reason, it's a library that is supposed to be installed along with emc automatically
[17:37:37] <jepler> _tkinter.TclError: Togl: X server has no OpenGL GLX extension
[17:38:04] <jepler> something has made opengl stop being supported by your system's X server
[17:38:11] <Fox_Muldr> for me it seems that the upgrade did something wrong, but a deinstall and reinstall of the emc package also didn't help
[17:38:13] <jepler> AXIS requires opengl
[17:38:17] <Fox_Muldr> hmm
[17:38:23] <jepler> this would be something in your X server configuration, not within emc
[17:38:45] <Fox_Muldr> so in the live-cd it is activated and in the installed version it somehow got deactivated?
[17:39:28] <Fox_Muldr> that's a thing i could try to find out, how to reactivate opengl in my installed ubuntu version
[17:40:42] <Fox_Muldr> but it wonders me, because i didn't do anything than starting emc on this machine and install updates. this pc has no other usage
[17:40:49] <SWPadnos> also note the lines like this:
[17:40:51] <SWPadnos> Can not find -sec HAL -var HALUI -num 1
[17:41:03] <jepler> SWPadnos: (that particular line is always there and always harmless..)
[17:41:14] <SWPadnos> ok - I've seen that before when there were environment problems
[17:41:50] <SWPadnos> oh - nevermind. those are different
[17:42:27] <jepler> for instance if you installed and then partially removed the nvidia graphics driver, it could lead to problems like this one
[17:42:53] <Fox_Muldr> is there any special opengl configuration or is it done with the general graphic card configuration in ubuntu?
[17:43:29] <jepler> Fox_Muldr: it should work by default, just like it does on the live CD
[17:44:06] <Fox_Muldr> jea, but it doesn't anymore and i don't want to format and reinstall the live-cd. so i first try to fix it :)
[17:44:55] <SWPadnos> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[17:44:58] <SWPadnos> may help
[17:45:40] <Fox_Muldr> i'm doing this at the moment
[17:46:51] <Fox_Muldr> do i need an internet connection for this command?
[17:47:06] <SWPadnos> yes, I believe so
[17:47:08] <fenn> you need to put the cd in the cd-rom drive
[17:47:20] <fenn> and type apt-cdrom add
[17:47:31] <SWPadnos> it depends on the installed version - if it's later than the CD, it won't install from there
[17:48:05] <fenn> i'm guessing he installed from cd if the computer doesnt have a net connection
[17:48:25] <SWPadnos> if he just did an update, then it had one at some point ...
[17:48:46] <Fox_Muldr> i installed from the live-cd and updates over internet, but normally it has no internet connection
[17:49:27] <SWPadnos> it seems it should work without a net connection (since the installed package is likely to be in the local package cache), but I don't think it does
[17:50:09] <Fox_Muldr> i try it with the "apt-cdrom add" command
[17:57:14] <Fox_Muldr> is there any special module in the list of xorg modules i should load for opengl?
[17:57:37] <Fox_Muldr> no module is called opengl, but glx ma be it?
[17:58:19] <jepler> in xorg.conf: Section "Module" ... Load "glx" ... EndSection
[17:58:39] <jepler> hm -- actually that's not right
[17:58:52] <Fox_Muldr> ok, in the config i can select between myna modules and glx is not default selected here. maybe this is the problem :)
[17:58:54] <jepler> this is a system with the nvidia opengl driver installed; usually that driver is not suitable for use with emc because it causes the "unexpected realtime delay" message
[17:59:07] <Fox_Muldr> i doin'T hav an nvidia driver
[17:59:18] <Fox_Muldr> i use and old 3dfx vodoo card
[18:00:01] <jepler> then probably copying my xorg.conf is not the right thing to try
[18:00:34] <fenn> try starting up the livecd and see what its xorg.conf looks like
[18:00:45] <fenn> and what kernel modules are loaded etc
[18:00:59] <Fox_Muldr> i now reconfigured the xorg graphic card and try what happens
[18:01:18] <Fox_Muldr> if it doesn't work i try the live-cd and look what the config there is
[18:04:04] <Fox_Muldr> it works again :)
[18:04:09] <Fox_Muldr> thanks for the help
[18:04:41] <Fox_Muldr> it must be the missing glx module. it seems that i deactivated it, when i changed the graphic settings
[18:06:40] <Fox_Muldr> now i just have to finish my cnc and i can really start using emc to controll it. at the moment i only test a bit around with emc until i finish my hardware.
[18:08:35] <fenn> what program did you make that animation with?
[18:09:06] <Fox_Muldr> 3ds max
[18:09:57] <fenn> you might want to offset the gantry in the X direction so the spindle doesnt overhang the table
[18:10:44] <Fox_Muldr> at the moment i only build the bottom axis and the top construct is to be started the next weeks
[18:11:16] <Fox_Muldr> i wanted to build the motors on the back so the weight is a bit more even with the spindle on the front
[18:12:30] <fenn> here is a crappy picture that illustrates what i'm talking about http://www.mercadolivre.com.br/org-img/eshops/logos/78151664.jpg
[18:12:49] <Fox_Muldr> and the gantry is so positioned, that the spindle is exact at the middle of the table, means the gantry is a bit offset to the back
[18:13:24] <Fox_Muldr> it doesn't seem of the avi so, but it is on the position, that the spindle is exact at the middle
[18:13:47] <Fox_Muldr> the gantry is offset to realize that
[18:14:15] <fenn> eh oops that's not a gantry it's a "bridge" mill
[18:14:42] <Fox_Muldr> he ok, i don't know the exact english word for this ;)
[18:14:53] <fenn> me either :)
[18:16:06] <fenn> btw don't expect too much rigidity from those rods
[18:16:22] <fenn> i made a similar design and ended up throwing it away because the rods flexed so much
[18:16:39] <Fox_Muldr> if your are interested you can see some pictures of what i have done this fare here:
[18:16:40] <Fox_Muldr> https://quakeman.homelinux.net/bilder/categories.php?cat_id=169
[18:18:01] <Fox_Muldr> i know, at the moment i use quite cheap rods for the beginning. if they are to weak i have to exchange them with better, but these are much more expensive.
[18:18:09] <fenn> hm.. why is your webserver using ssl?
[18:19:14] <Fox_Muldr> i just don't like it, when all network traffic could be seen by everybody else ;)
[18:19:38] <fenn> well, so you know, it screws up google translation
[18:20:04] <Fox_Muldr> hehe forget the translation, it's just pictures ;)
[18:20:21] <fenn> yeah it helps me learn german :)
[18:20:34] <Fox_Muldr> i think in a picture gallery a translation is not very important
[18:20:38] <Fox_Muldr> hehe
[18:51:55] <sed__> Does anyone know of a post processor for MasterCAM X2 that works with EMC?
[19:08:14] <fenn> sed__: you might start with the fanuc processor and try turning off any fancy stuff
[19:36:12] <Fox_Muldr> thanks for the help before and cu guys :)
[19:36:55] <jepler> *yawn*
[19:37:03] <jepler> I've forgotten just how slow old hardware can be for developent
[19:37:12] <jepler> (1GHz AMD "Duron")
[19:38:00] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:38:40] <SWPadnos> here I am using Altium on an Athlon 1800 (not an athlon XP, just an athlon)
[19:39:21] <jepler> I bet your machine would beat mine 2:1
[19:39:33] <SWPadnos> hmmm. it could, but I dunno
[19:39:40] <jepler> duron was the low-cache version of the athlon I think
[19:39:59] <SWPadnos> yes, though it depends a lot on the chip generation
[19:40:18] <jepler> family 6 / model 7 / stepping 0
[19:40:27] <jepler> cache size 64KB
[19:40:27] <SWPadnos> the athlon doesn't have SSE (or some MMX or something)
[19:40:39] <SWPadnos> ok, this has more than that, but since I'm running on Windows, I can't tell you exactly
[19:41:22] <SWPadnos> the 1.5GB RAM does help though - that's basically the only upgrade I've done on this machine since 2001
[19:42:42] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I wonder if I should remove "Mach3 Pulseing Engine" from hardware manager
[19:45:01] <SWPadnos> ah - revision 4 / stepping 2 (0), 256k cache
[19:45:18] <SWPadnos> and Generation G7, whatever that means
[19:46:51] <SWPadnos> too funny - here's the error I get when trying to run a memory bandwidth test:
[19:46:52] <SWPadnos> Error : Windows is out of memory or resources. Close down some applications.
[19:47:43] <Skullworks-PGAB> time for heavy virus scan
[20:34:36] <fenn> i hope whatsisname puts encoders on his steppers so we can finally answer this stupid steppers with feedback question once and for all
[20:34:57] <SWPadnos> Mariss?
[20:35:13] <Skullworks-PGAB> no
[20:35:12] <SWPadnos> or some EMC user?
[20:35:17] <Skullworks-PGAB> Jymm
[20:35:20] <fenn> you just run following error through a scale block with offset +1 and negative gain to motion.adaptive feed
[20:35:23] <SWPadnos> oh - him
[20:35:27] <fenn> a bunch of people have asked about it
[20:35:31] <fenn> jlmjvm is the latest i think
[20:35:41] <SWPadnos> right
[20:36:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> Maris has done it - but it requires his G100 firmware to be usefull
[20:37:18] <fenn> mebbe i should make a crappy stepper drive and just do it
[20:37:32] <fenn> then i can say 'see see told ya so'
[20:37:40] <Skullworks-PGAB> and I don't think it reports status back up to the controlling program
[20:37:54] <SWPadnos> the G100 is the controlling program ;)
[20:37:59] <Skullworks-PGAB> Aka - Blind closed loop
[20:38:26] <fenn> and i dont understand why you guys constantly shoo away requests for g100 drivers etc
[20:38:38] <fenn> galil too
[20:38:47] <SWPadnos> having the drive tell the controller that slip is imminent is a very good thing, and that could be used with EMC, if he puts an appropriate output on the drive
[20:39:53] <Skullworks-PGAB> thats just it - until it reports back true position, its just blind closed loop - the display only knows COMMANDED position, not ACTUAL position.
[20:40:19] <fenn> you could blow away the firmware and put a dumb controller on there :P
[20:40:26] <SWPadnos> I'd love a G100 driver, but the only way to develop code for the G100 itself (which would be necessary for closed loop operation, regardless of whether the PC or the G100 does it) is to buy the Windows-only Rabbit development kit
[20:40:50] <fenn> is the rabbit source open?
[20:40:55] <SWPadnos> no
[20:41:00] <fenn> why not?
[20:41:14] <SWPadnos> and the instruction set is partially closed as well, so you can't even use GCC for it
[20:41:26] <SWPadnos> because they sell it, instead of giving it away
[20:41:26] <fenn> i mean the software specifically written for g100
[20:41:33] <JymmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: You rang?
[20:41:46] <fenn> JymmmEMC: we just got you confused with someone else, nevermind
[20:41:47] <Skullworks-PGAB> not really
[20:42:12] <SWPadnos> I think there is a Linux source code tarball for the G100, which may include the code for the Rabbit
[20:42:28] <JymmmEMC> Ah, I don't do wabbit
[20:42:38] <SWPadnos> but nobody can use it (except me and Matt - we both have the Rabbit devkit) for EMC development
[20:42:39] <Skullworks-PGAB> was trying to recall who was wanting the encoder feedback on stppers
[20:43:05] <fenn> SWPadnos: "but nobody can use it" why?
[20:43:04] <JymmmEMC> oh, the new guy wasn't it?
[20:43:09] <SWPadnos> I don't know if the tarball includes Rabbit source or if it's just a firmware blob, utilities, and a front end (with source)
[20:43:18] <SWPadnos> because nobody can compile code for the rabbit on the G100
[20:43:31] <fenn> SWPadnos: i dont suppose you're allowed to put a .. er.. auto-build system on your server
[20:43:35] <Skullworks-PGAB> without the tookit...
[20:44:00] <SWPadnos> unless they have a Windows machine, and they buy the development kit from Rabbit Semiconductor or some othercompany ($300 or $800 per person, respectively)
[20:44:38] <fenn> i dont really understand this whole proprietary software thingy.. are you not allowed to compile someone else's code?
[20:44:42] <SWPadnos> this is why I've kept the idea of an ARM replacement for the rabbit in mind - then the whole thing could be done with free/Free tools
[20:44:56] <SWPadnos> YOU MUST BUY THEIR COMPILER!!!!!
[20:45:17] <SWPadnos> (did that make sense? :) )
[20:45:21] <fenn> not really
[20:45:30] <SWPadnos> did you understand the words?
[20:45:32] <fenn> sure
[20:45:34] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: no, say it again more slowly this time
[20:45:37] <fenn> it just didnt answer my question
[20:45:39] <SWPadnos> err
[20:45:47] <fenn> lets say i send you a patch
[20:45:51] <Skullworks-PGAB> makes dollars for someone
[20:46:02] <fenn> are you allowed to compile it and post the binary on your website?
[20:46:24] <SWPadnos> if the source code is available, then yes, I think it's OK to modify it and distribute the modified copies
[20:46:48] <SWPadnos> however, of the EMC develpers, only two have the software needed to generate the new firmware blob - me and Matt S
[20:46:57] <fenn> ok, so, what if you have a shell script that automatically compiles/posts any patches you receive?
[20:47:16] <SWPadnos> shell script? this is Windows software, remember?
[20:47:19] <SWPadnos> :)
[20:47:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> perl on windoz
[20:47:33] <fenn> you're avoiding the question
[20:47:35] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: VNC
[20:47:57] <SWPadnos> no, I'm not avoiding the question. yes, I could compile any changes anyone sends me (automated or not)
[20:48:13] <fenn> i could care less about the g100 and would rather someone made a free version, i just get sick of hearing 'emc cant do that'
[20:48:22] <fenn> when i know its not true
[20:48:34] <Skullworks-PGAB> but it could be a real bear to set all the command line compile switches remotely.
[20:48:46] <JymmmEMC> VNC
[20:48:59] <SWPadnos> the point is that it's difficult/undesirable to set up an environment in which to develop code for the G100, since it requires proprietary non-free, non-Free software
[20:49:23] <fenn> heh non-free non-Free
[20:49:29] <SWPadnos> right :)
[20:49:40] <fenn> and it's not Open Source(tm) either!
[20:51:32] <SWPadnos> ok - the source code for GeckoMotion is available from the Gecko group file area
[20:52:16] <fenn> hrmph there's no way that demo movie on geckodrive.com is 3900in/min
[20:52:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:53:05] <Skullworks-PGAB> sure - just as it passes the mid point
[20:53:24] <Skullworks-PGAB> and starts breaking...
[20:53:44] <fenn> its about 2 feet in 1 second.. we can do this.. come on brain
[20:54:04] <Skullworks-PGAB> the bobble head is throwing off your prospective :)
[20:54:17] <fenn> 0.5*at^2
[20:54:17] <SWPadnos> 65 in/sec
[20:55:31] <Skullworks-PGAB> he used a scope to capture peak velocity
[20:55:38] <lerneaen_hydra> has mariss released his high-speed stepper driver yet?
[20:55:42] <SWPadnos> there is also a Linux library for using the G100 anda firmware blob for it, but no source for the firmware
[20:55:51] <lerneaen_hydra> or is that the g100?
[20:55:54] <Skullworks-PGAB> not yet
[20:56:26] <SWPadnos> note that the firmware used with Mach is not the same thing you get with the stock G100, and it costs $50 extra
[20:57:22] <Skullworks-PGAB> * Skullworks-PGAB is thinking of grabbing 3x 203v at the discounted price and just stashing them on the shelf for a someday project.
[20:58:08] <JymmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: test them before stockpiling them, Alex had done the same thing to find 3yrs later one was DOA
[20:58:23] <fenn> d'eaux
[20:59:17] <fenn> yahoo sure has a strange way of sorting dates
[21:00:52] <SWPadnos> damn. it is absolutely pouring outside
[21:01:08] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: better than inside
[21:01:36] <SWPadnos> well, there is tha
[21:01:37] <SWPadnos> t
[21:11:21] <fenn> ok i did the calculations on that 3900 ipm and i guess it works out
[21:12:33] <fenn> it should take about 0.76 seconds to go end to end if it just reaches 3900 at the middle
[21:18:06] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, 100k mm/min, that's quite fast
[21:18:20] <lerneaen_hydra> though the motor's torque is probably next to none
[21:18:39] <fenn> ya it isn't driving a load at all really
[21:22:27] <Skullworks-PGAB> funny thing was he tried to strap a brick on there to give it some inertial load - and it thru the brick accross the room into a monitor.
[21:22:51] <fenn> yikes
[21:23:36] <SWPadnos> the Gecko BrickFlinger (tm)
[21:25:53] <Skullworks-PGAB> I also wonder what voltage he used - his product is 'rated" for 80v, but tested at 100v IIRC
[21:26:31] <SWPadnos> it's rated for 80, and you'll void the warrantee if yo go above that, unless you send him a schematic of your overvoltage dump circuit and he approves it
[21:27:02] <SWPadnos> the FETs come apart around 114-116V though, FWIW
[21:34:53] <jepler> now make it do that at about the same time as the bricks hit the monitor
[21:35:21] <fenn> and attach a UV laser to ionize the air between the stepper drive and the monitor
[21:36:10] <jepler> and do it outside in the pouring rain
[21:44:05] <SWPadnos> hold it maw, I think we got usselves a ecksperimuhnt tuh do!
[21:47:29] <skunkworks> brick thrower?
[21:48:17] <dmessier> hi all
[21:50:38] <skunkworks> logger_emc: bookmark
[21:50:38] <skunkworks> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-08-25.txt
[22:22:01] <jepler> another DIY CNC machine: http://www.instructables.com/id/EG9RXG6F54HJ7SL/?ALLSTEPS
[22:22:47] <jepler> light bulb !? http://cratel.wichita.edu/blogs/tommcguire/files/2007/02/cheapstepschem1.jpg