#emc | Logs for 2007-08-20

[00:05:42] <skunkworks> bbl
[00:11:10] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[00:11:19] <alex_joni> good night all
[00:15:27] <DanielFalck> good night alex_joni
[00:31:24] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
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[00:47:49] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[00:53:06] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[00:57:14] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[01:07:22] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
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[02:07:55] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[02:23:04] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[02:25:20] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[02:37:28] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
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[02:48:13] <CIA-24> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emccanon.cc: fix problem reported by cradek: tool change could get stuck after FPR mode
[02:51:03] <jepler> cradek: you'll test that bugfix for me, right? ^^^
[02:51:05] <jepler> 'night all
[03:03:18] <cradek> jepler: you betcha
[03:18:07] <a-l-p-h-a1> sorry everyone about my work connection, its not stable for some reason
[03:28:56] <Jymmm> a-l-p-h-a Np, we never considered ya too stable anyway, figured the connection is par for the course ;)
[03:32:47] <toastydeath> i need to load up a linux box
[03:32:54] <toastydeath> on a wired connection
[03:33:01] <toastydeath> so i can just re-establish ssh/screen
[03:33:07] <toastydeath> because i am having that same problem, dude
[03:33:13] <toastydeath> except it's just my wireless
[03:38:07] <LawrenceG> cradek: nice mill.... I would sure like one of those.... you will need a bigger shovel for the chips!
[03:38:41] <toastydeath> it is suprisingly difficult to shovel chips in some of the enclosures
[03:38:50] <toastydeath> i think the only one we can get a shovel into at work is the Mori
[03:39:12] <toastydeath> but that's like an 80x40 table or something, so you can just sit on the table and scoop
[03:39:21] <toastydeath> jogwheelin' around
[03:39:32] <toastydeath> please don't tell osha.
[03:39:44] <LawrenceG> you know you are having fun when ....
[03:40:54] <LawrenceG> ... kind of quiet in here for a weekend
[03:41:07] <cradek> not much weekend left...
[03:41:51] <LawrenceG> yup... I guess its longer on the west coast :}..... Have you had enough rain Chris?
[03:42:17] <cradek> not much here. jmk said he had some.
[03:42:55] <LawrenceG> I hear the wind surfing is pretty good in Jamaica at the moment
[03:43:59] <LawrenceG> Chris.... do you mind me asking what the approx price range you paid for your mill?
[03:44:43] <cradek> low $k
[03:45:13] <cradek> it came with tooling, and delivered, so I paid more than market value
[03:45:30] <cradek> seems like they are $2-3k on ebay
[03:45:40] <LawrenceG> cool... I wish I was closer to an industrial center... Seattle would probably be the closest I would find one
[03:45:51] <cradek> where are you?
[03:46:01] <cradek> oh, near seattle :-)
[03:46:03] <LawrenceG> maybe Vancouver... I am on Vancouver Island
[03:46:23] <cradek> transportation is a huge obstacle
[03:46:37] <cradek> this one showed up 70 miles from home, so it was easy
[03:46:51] <LawrenceG> I can just make a day trip to Seattle and back with the ferry rides.... looonng day
[03:47:41] <LawrenceG> how much did it weigh... wondering If I could put one in the 1 ton pickup.... max about 3000lbs
[03:47:58] <cradek> it's more than that, maybe 3500
[03:48:30] <LawrenceG> too much.... :{
[03:48:45] <cradek> steve s. said the book says 3550 lb
[03:49:15] <LawrenceG> getting it out of the pickup would be the hard part.... would need a HD forklift or a crane
[03:50:05] <SWPadnos> a boom-style tow truck also works
[03:50:05] <cradek> I think a pickup isn't wide enough anyway.
[03:50:18] <SWPadnos> and it really helps if the boom actually works
[03:51:01] <Jymmm> flatbed tow truck are usually 5 or 10 ton
[03:51:29] <SWPadnos> flatbeds are good for the transporting (and can more or less self-load and unload)
[03:52:07] <SWPadnos> but if you have the thing on some other vehicle, then a boom is better, because it can lift the machine off a bed, as long as it's not too high)
[03:52:46] <cradek> half a day rental of a huge forklift (7 ton?) was $140 here - very easy to lift it off the trailer
[03:53:10] <SWPadnos> that would be $500 here :(
[03:53:31] <SWPadnos> well, the rental would be only $150 or so, but getting the forklift here and back ...
[03:53:35] <Jymmm> If you can make a HD dolly to put it on, a flatbed tow truck will be a cinch
[03:53:41] <cradek> I'm shocked by how cheap rentals are
[03:53:55] <cradek> we towed the forklift with the bronco
[03:53:59] <SWPadnos> me too, apparently
[03:54:11] <cradek> (it was just barely enough truck to do that)
[03:54:21] <Jymmm> We used to use tow trucks to move vaults =)
[03:54:24] <SWPadnos> hmmm. a bronco has around a 10000 pound tow cap, right?
[03:54:33] <cradek> no idea
[03:54:38] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:54:50] <Jymmm> tow truck has the winch too
[03:54:51] <cradek> it has the real hitch attached to the frame, not the bumper junk
[03:55:17] <cradek> as long as you don't need to start or stop, it's fine
[04:33:04] <skinnypuppy1334> What's good for converting .wmv to avi or mpeg? I had garbled audio opening the wmv in avidemux and saving as avi or mpeg
[04:33:29] <skinnypuppy1334> crap wrong channel sorry
[04:50:56] <tomp> i tried simulating Hektor with svg. used opera9. maybe xy data can be captured to file. maybe file can be sent to halstreamer. svg is http://pastebin.ca/664087 html wrapper is http://pastebin.ca/664084
[04:51:44] <tomp> programming it is just inserting an svg path ( beziers, lines, circles, ellipses )
[05:05:05] <tomp> if you dont have opera9 heres a screen capture http://imagebin.org/10017
[05:50:02] <Skullworks-PGAB> Cradek - that threaded 30 NMBT holder o=is likely for a boring head
[05:51:04] <ds2> aren't boring heads typically 7/8?
[05:51:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> also - strangely enough Grizzly tools has started stocking NMBT holders at great prices
[05:51:14] <Skullworks-PGAB> varies
[05:51:37] <Skullworks-PGAB> I have some that are 1.187-18
[05:51:57] <Skullworks-PGAB> 4" heads
[05:52:51] <ds2> what kind of machine can you put a 4" head on it?
[05:53:20] <toastydeath> 4" boring head?
[05:53:44] <Skullworks-PGAB> also Harbor frieght had a deal goiong on genuine Jacobs chuckes - which I think is still good
[05:53:57] <Skullworks-PGAB> 4" is small
[05:54:06] <toastydeath> 4" max diam?
[05:54:13] <toastydeath> or the head itself is 4" wide
[05:54:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> body dia with no offset
[05:54:35] <toastydeath> i would agree with you, 4" is about average
[05:55:32] <toastydeath> some of those crazy wolhaupter heads look like they're 8" across
[05:55:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> have a 6" Criterion - had a bar ( 1" shank) hanging W A Y out to bore 18" 14 inch deep.
[05:56:11] <toastydeath> 1" all the way?
[05:56:17] <toastydeath> or 1" shank and a different diam bar
[05:56:28] <toastydeath> and what depth of cut
[05:56:44] <toastydeath> i've never seen anyone actually do a big boring operation, so i'm kind of curious about it
[05:56:52] <Skullworks-PGAB> was for a vaccuum cylinder - part of a chip fab process machine
[05:57:12] <Skullworks-PGAB> .045" off the wall
[05:57:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> .09" off the dia
[05:57:33] <Skullworks-PGAB> 180 rpm
[05:57:44] <toastydeath> pretty decent chunk for something hanging that far out
[05:57:57] <Skullworks-PGAB> .002" feed per rev
[05:58:06] <toastydeath> hmm, still
[05:58:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> have to keep a load on the tool or harmonics go nuts
[05:59:16] <Skullworks-PGAB> thankfully there was no interupted cut
[05:59:30] <toastydeath> what do you think of those balanced boring heads
[05:59:41] <toastydeath> i've never even seen one but i hear a lot about them
[06:00:13] <Skullworks-PGAB> but the piston had .025" undersize and 4x neoprene O-rings
[06:00:53] <skinnypuppy1334> Any of you guys bore motorcycle or small watercraft cylinders on a vertical mill?
[06:01:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> I used a 7/16" gun drill to drill thru the 14" thick plate in a BHC with the holes almost touching
[06:01:43] <toastydeath> personally? i have not bored anything critical on vertical mill
[06:02:11] <toastydeath> i do know of several gentlemen who purchased used jig borers explicitly for that purpose, because the results on a bridgeport were not up to their standards
[06:02:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> then had the blocks removed and had bandsaw blades welded thru the holes
[06:02:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> (giggles)
[06:03:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> this was a 19,200 lb Mori Seiki
[06:03:01] <toastydeath> lol
[06:03:18] <skinnypuppy1334> Yeah I was looking for some direction on boring cylinders, I've got an enco bridgeport clone and a 17" clausing lathe but no real way to bore cylinders dependably
[06:03:27] <fenn> you can use gun drills on a mill?
[06:03:28] <Skullworks-PGAB> and been there done that on knee mills too
[06:03:40] <Skullworks-PGAB> yes - sort of
[06:03:54] <toastydeath> you could do it on the lathe
[06:04:01] <toastydeath> if the engine would fit on the faceplate
[06:04:20] <toastydeath> and if you had a bridgeport of superb condition and polish, you could do it
[06:04:32] <fenn> better to put it on the table like a horizontal boring machine
[06:04:34] <skinnypuppy1334> Some would, not the tripple cylinder ganged ones
[06:04:45] <Skullworks-PGAB> had to drill pilot holes 2" deep because the drill follows a guid bushing into the hole normally
[06:04:50] <fenn> with the boring bar going all the way through to the tailstock
[06:04:51] <ds2> goess I deal with puny puny puny machines
[06:05:01] <toastydeath> but the majority of people I spoke to who do small engine boring
[06:05:13] <toastydeath> motorcycles, snomobiles
[06:05:20] <Skullworks-PGAB> lucky we opted for 800 psi collant thru the flange
[06:05:21] <toastydeath> found that a jig borer is far and away the best way to do it
[06:05:44] <fenn> Skullworks-PGAB: i figured it would just go out of line and snap eventually
[06:05:53] <toastydeath> good long stroke, wide selection of feeds, spindle specifically built for boring
[06:06:11] <toastydeath> and the table will hold the engine more accurately than a bridgeport table usually does
[06:06:12] <Skullworks-PGAB> gun drills have a single straight flute - chips only come out via coolant force
[06:06:48] <toastydeath> used jig borers run from around 250 bucks to 1000
[06:06:51] <Skullworks-PGAB> holes were real straight
[06:06:53] <toastydeath> most of them i hear are around 500
[06:06:59] <toastydeath> in decent condition for engine boring
[06:07:08] <skinnypuppy1334> Thx toastydeath, basically I've got a lathe mill and surface grinder in my garrage, saving for some control hardware to put emc on the mill
[06:07:13] <Skullworks-PGAB> maybe .02-,03 off at exit side
[06:07:14] <fenn> yow http://www.tbtuk.com/pics/workexample3.jpg
[06:07:35] <toastydeath> nice
[06:08:06] <toastydeath> that's a fancy part man
[06:08:21] <fenn> i wonder if the little ones go all the way through
[06:08:29] <fenn> i mean, i'd assume so since its a deep hole drilling page
[06:08:42] <Skullworks-PGAB> well the BHC was all undersize - just to reduce the bandsaw time to cut out the 13.5" solid before we circle milled out the hole then bored it.
[06:08:45] <toastydeath> gun drills don't much care how long you want to go, or how skinny
[06:08:49] <toastydeath> so i'd assume they went through
[06:09:44] <fenn> they say concentricity is about 4x worse if you spin the drill instead of the work
[06:09:48] <Skullworks-PGAB> BTW that was a nice dropping that the customer bought us - those hole cores...
[06:10:21] <fenn> but it's only 1.2mm/m vs 0.3
[06:11:57] <fenn> Skullworks-PGAB: what kind of seal goes between the coolant feed line and the spindle?
[06:12:10] <fenn> and what rpm does it run at
[06:12:35] <toastydeath> there's a collar
[06:12:55] <toastydeath> oh, thru spindle
[06:12:58] <toastydeath> nvm
[06:14:40] <Skullworks-PGAB> a really badly designed or material choice for one...
[06:15:20] <Skullworks-PGAB> as we have blown the seal because the coolant causes it to get real soft and blow out over time
[06:15:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> blown it 2x
[06:15:55] <fenn> do you think a teflon seal would work?
[06:16:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> factory tech replaced it once under warranty and once on our dime.
[06:16:19] <Skullworks-PGAB> yes
[06:16:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> if there is enough contact space
[06:17:24] <fenn> i guess it doesnt have to seal real well if you just have a leak-catcher after the high pressure seal
[06:17:28] <Skullworks-PGAB> We were making bushings for dental drills that run in solid teflon bushings
[06:17:48] <Skullworks-PGAB> the CNC lath collet could not clamp on it
[06:17:53] <fenn> heh
[06:18:01] <fenn> superglue
[06:18:02] <Skullworks-PGAB> it just kept crushing it
[06:19:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> so we made a split bushing that the collet would collaspe on then it would have a hard limit as to how far it could colaspe
[06:19:25] <toastydeath> watchmaker's chuck?
[06:19:27] <toastydeath> oh
[06:19:35] <toastydeath> i guess your way makes more sense for a production run
[06:19:57] <Skullworks-PGAB> A2-6 spindle nose with a 5C
[06:20:31] <Skullworks-PGAB> old version of the bushings were made from oilite
[06:20:55] <Skullworks-PGAB> doctors complained from the heat build up in there hands
[06:21:39] <Skullworks-PGAB> as the company swaped out with the teflon version - never had one come back for service.
[06:21:50] <toastydeath> i'm going to file that in the back of my mind.
[06:21:57] <toastydeath> if i ever need a high pressure seal that rotates.
[06:22:31] <fenn> file what in your mind?
[06:22:35] <Skullworks-PGAB> remeber it should be lubed - the coolant did that
[06:23:02] <Skullworks-PGAB> but the bushings we were making were installed to run dry.
[06:23:16] <toastydeath> teflon
[06:24:28] <Skullworks-PGAB> now I work on fuser rollers - and they spray on teflon coatings - its scary cause I know the chemical actions going on while most of the workers in the coating dept are clueless
[06:25:15] <toastydeath> ouch
[06:25:27] <toastydeath> do they wear any kind of saftey gear
[06:25:27] <Skullworks-PGAB> there is a reason they go up on the roof and collect the dead birds that have flown thru the exhausts vents from the curing ovens...
[06:25:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah they wear PPG
[06:26:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> but still I'd be spooked
[06:26:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> Read up on florine gas...
[06:26:45] <Skullworks-PGAB> one of the few things that eats thru glass
[06:26:57] <fenn> there's other stuff in teflon manufacture (not fluorine) that's especially bad for birds
[06:27:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> I'm sure
[06:27:31] <fenn> but yeah, having needles of calcium fluoride floating around in your blood ripping stuff up doesnt sound fun
[06:27:51] <Skullworks-PGAB> also a bunch of cynide based stuff is used
[06:28:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> glad I don't work in that part of the building
[06:34:59] <fenn> i wonder if an electrically actuated semi-automatic rifle would be considered a "machine gun"
[06:36:42] <Skullworks-PGAB> yes
[06:37:04] <fenn> so a simple solenoid would make a regular gun illegal?
[06:37:35] <fenn> i'm pretty ignorant of gun laws
[06:38:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> someone came up with a pachinko ball gun that used a electo-magnet to shoot the balls like a min rail gun.. at a high rate of autofire
[06:38:39] <Skullworks-PGAB> it did not get a good reception.
[06:38:57] <fenn> i know that technically paintball guns are considered "firearms" (in some states?) and they can get like 15 rounds per second in "turbo mode"
[06:40:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah - technicaly they don't fire a solid - or use a explosive charge - but BATF is expanding definitions all the time
[06:41:36] <Skullworks-PGAB> I had a FFL "Firearms manufacture" for 12 years - I don't miss all the legal BS they made up on the fly...
[06:41:50] <Skullworks-PGAB> gave it up in 2002
[06:42:32] <fenn> do they ever use titanium to make gun barrels?
[06:43:00] <Skullworks-PGAB> sure - S&W airweight is a Ti revolver - all TI
[06:43:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> 38 special
[06:44:14] <Skullworks-PGAB> springs and such are still steel - bu frame and bbl are all Ti
[06:44:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> TI is a pain - too much knalling
[06:45:36] <fenn> i wonder if that's not just an alloy-specific property
[06:45:47] <Skullworks-PGAB> its Ti on ti
[06:46:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> if you mix TI and stainless it isn't a problem
[06:46:10] <fenn> oh, i just read a usenet post about how the bullets would rip the rifling right out of the barrel
[06:46:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> on a rifle it might
[06:46:41] <Skullworks-PGAB> on 38 spl lead bullets - I think not
[06:47:02] <Skullworks-PGAB> and S&W has made 1000's of these
[06:47:08] <Skullworks-PGAB> airweights
[06:56:36] <Skullworks-PGAB> * Skullworks-PGAB is going to snooze , have to be up for work in 4 hrs
[07:15:33] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[07:18:49] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[07:53:09] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[07:57:20] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[08:02:35] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[08:23:26] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[08:37:43] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[08:59:10] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[09:02:19] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[09:12:54] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[09:21:05] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[12:07:15] <skunkworks> heh http://youtube.com/watch?v=4JUG1Qz7Xu8
[12:16:03] <jepler> good morning skunkworks
[12:17:13] <jepler> I would have thought that "hermes" had two syllables: "her meez"
[12:18:30] <jepler> sounds like it only has 2 or 3 distinct "notes"
[12:18:32] <jepler> when you jog
[12:18:42] <skunkworks> yes - it starts out slow and ramps up.
[12:19:08] <skunkworks> you may be correct. (I have not heard anyone say it before)
[12:19:36] <skunkworks> good morning
[12:20:58] <archivist> her meez would be correct
[12:21:14] <jepler> I only say that because I watched futurama, and one of the characters was called "hermes"
[12:23:18] <skunkworks> heh
[12:23:44] <skunkworks> damn.
[12:23:59] <skunkworks> Oh well.. people will understand. ;)
[12:24:09] <skunkworks> I don't mind them making fun of me..
[12:24:36] <fenn> we need a module in emc to synch stepper motors to whatever musical scale we're currently in
[12:25:29] <archivist> musac while we work
[12:25:54] <archivist> * archivist posts to me http://youtube.com/watch?v=4JUG1Qz7Xu8
[12:26:55] <skunkworks> This is to get ready for ebay.. I am going to hook the drives back up and cut a few things with emc showing what could be done (maybe the donut also)
[12:27:06] <skunkworks> cnc wise
[12:27:13] <skunkworks> step right up..
[12:27:31] <skunkworks> it slices and dices
[12:42:44] <jepler> I'd love a machine in which I could place a raw vegteable, make a few entries on a keypad, and get it cut to spec
[12:42:53] <jepler> peeled too
[12:43:09] <SWPadnos> might as well cook it too
[12:45:13] <archivist> isnt that a kitchen with a tame woman in it?
[12:45:31] <SWPadnos> um - no. that's not maintainable
[12:46:32] <skunkworks> or - high maintenence
[12:48:22] <skunkworks> 'tame woman' that must be a uk saying. That would not fly over here.
[12:48:37] <skunkworks> you would get bitch slapped.
[12:48:44] <skunkworks> can I say that?
[12:48:46] <SWPadnos> I suspect it's not PC on either side of the Atlantic
[12:49:55] <archivist> probably not pc either side, but then Im old free and single and my bot is called the_wench
[12:58:58] <skunkworks> spring loaded nuts http://www.electronicsam.com/images/engraver/stepperlead.JPG
[12:59:19] <skunkworks> jepler: when are you expecting your little toy?
[12:59:49] <jepler> skunkworks: I don't think the seller shipped it yet, so it might end up being next week
[13:17:54] <skunkworks> I would be happy with this price. http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Hermes-V7200-rotary-engraver-W-EP-Module_W0QQitemZ320147485133QQihZ011QQcategoryZ46744QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[13:18:39] <skunkworks> still need to find the software.
[13:53:09] <cradek> skunkworks: is that acme? I can't quite tell
[14:02:57] <skunkworks> cradek: it is 2 start - I didn't look that close. I would assume
[14:16:49] <lewin1> lewin1 is now known as lewing
[14:41:37] <cradek> http://jelinux.pico-systems.com/CSM84.html
[14:41:46] <cradek> haha, "here's the original basement door that the machine would not fit through"...
[14:47:15] <skunkworks> funny
[14:48:46] <skunkworks> so does jonE have someone make his circuit board blanks and then he does the placing and soldering?
[14:49:17] <cradek> seems like
[14:50:12] <skunkworks> cradek: ordered some more 30 taper tooling from ebay?
[14:50:50] <cradek> no, but I bid on a drill chuck and adapter
[14:54:04] <archivist> he likes hard work http://jelinux.pico-systems.com/sheldon.html
[14:54:36] <cradek> yeah
[14:56:16] <jepler> hah -- jon elson told me about this trouble with the forklift
[14:56:22] <jepler> one of those nights at the mexican restaurant
[14:57:19] <cradek> we had a couple "wow maybe we really better stay on the concrete" moments moving the mill recently
[14:57:49] <cradek> the driveway is two parts, packed dirt and concrete. Normally they work about the same...
[15:12:11] <alex_joni> hi guys
[15:12:25] <cradek> hi zles
[15:12:28] <cradek> or alex
[15:12:36] <alex_joni> off-by-one-encoding?
[15:12:49] <cradek> yeah that was a strange typo
[15:12:58] <cradek> some kind of row transposition
[15:13:13] <alex_joni> interesting
[15:13:21] <alex_joni> might be some new encrypting algorithm
[15:13:28] <cradek> well maybe, but not a very good one
[15:14:24] <alex_joni> cradek: got time to talk about something?
[15:14:48] <cradek> sure
[15:15:17] <alex_joni> shall we move it to devel? it involves the TP :)
[15:15:44] <cradek> oh no
[17:08:16] <fenn> i love safety videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k3IYniHaKM
[17:55:08] <c60> Hello.
[17:55:24] <cradek> hi c60
[17:56:59] <jepler> my xylotex board just arrived. It's smaller than I expected.
[17:57:47] <c60> I'm looking for information about using emc not so much as a full controller, as our old bosch SCM cc100 works, but just to feed cutting files (mostly gcode), does EMC do this kind of thing?
[17:58:23] <jepler> c60: not really, emc's meant to run the whole show
[17:59:10] <c60> So what would be used for doing the conversion from cad file(dxf) to something that emc recognizes?
[18:00:48] <jepler> that's what's called CAM software -- emc doesn't read dxf files directly, you have to convert them into gcode with some other piece of software.
[18:02:27] <c60> ya we currently use a really old alphacam software on win98, but I've switched everything over to linux and so looking for alternatives.
[18:04:01] <fenn> i hear ace converter works in wine
[18:04:06] <jepler> I don't know of any good DXF to gcode converters for linux -- all my gcode is either hand-written or generated by a homebrew script from a linux circuit-board layout program (eagle).
[18:04:42] <cradek> some information here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Cam
[18:06:00] <cradek> since dxf is a description of a drawing (meant for plotting), every dxf->gcode converter will work a little differently to get the necessary information that's not included (like depths). It might be best to stick with what already works for you.
[18:07:00] <jepler> you might even try installing alphacam in wine
[18:07:09] <cradek> good idea
[18:07:14] <jepler> or vmware, which you can get at no cost
[18:54:39] <jepler> the xylotex inputs are buffered but not with schmitt triggers ('541)
[18:55:34] <jepler> there may be RC filters on the inputs to the '541 though -- there are 16 Rs and 8 Cs between the input header and the 541
[18:57:20] <skunkworks> jepler: did you see that there is a xylotex forum on cnczone? http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=82
[18:57:41] <jepler> skunkworks: no but I'm not surprised to hear there is one
[18:58:54] <skunkworks> I know how much you enjoy that type of forum..
[18:58:58] <skunkworks> ;)
[18:59:52] <cradek> Your most active in: EMC/Linux (Enhanced Machine Control)
[18:59:57] <cradek> * cradek shivers
[19:00:04] <skunkworks> heh
[19:00:17] <skunkworks> 2 posts - both identical..
[19:00:18] <cradek> welcome to grade 3
[19:01:46] <skunkworks> Your most active in: EMC/Linux (Enhanced Machine Control) ยท 119 Posts
[19:01:56] <skunkworks> which isn't very much at all.
[19:11:27] <skunkworks> heh - this is embarasing. Total Posts: 2,787 (1.27 posts per day)
[19:11:35] <jepler> looks like I've sent about 500 messages to the emc lists since october 2005
[19:13:22] <jepler> what happens if you try to use a "5-wire" stepper in a bipolar driver, leaving the 5th wire unconnected?
[19:13:50] <cradek> good question. seems like it would break something.
[19:14:10] <jepler> cradek: matt was coveting my xylotex board, but he says his steppers are 5 wire..
[19:14:20] <cradek> I think he's mistaken
[19:14:36] <cradek> I'm pretty sure I remember seeing that they are 6
[19:15:13] <cradek> I think I recall seeing that the two center taps are combined in the wire shroud somewhere
[19:18:35] <gene> Hi guys; Having ups probs today & need to install apcupsd. Its shows in an lsusb, but apctest cannot find it. Ideas anyone?
[19:23:20] <skunkworks> jepler: the xylotex is a bipolar drive - right?
[19:31:06] <skunkworks> looks like it is - you can't use 5 wire stepping motors.
[19:59:46] <CIA-24> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/config/ini_config.lyx: thinko
[20:13:23] <CIA-24> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/ (command.c motion.h): remove these, as we will be doing it in task
[20:15:08] <CIA-24> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/task/taskintf.cc: remove these, as we will be doing it in task
[20:15:45] <CIA-24> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emctaskmain.cc: implement wait on pin in task
[20:30:59] <JymmmEMC> 16603. Every person who, as a condition to a sale or consignment of any magazine, book, or other publication requires that the purchaser or consignee purchase or receive for sale any horror comic book, is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding six months, or by fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both.
[20:31:19] <JymmmEMC> ooops, wrong window.
[20:31:51] <cradek> that sounds very bizarre
[20:32:22] <JymmmEMC> It makes sense, when you see the definition of 'horror':
[20:32:56] <JymmmEMC> As used in this section "horror comic book" means any book or booklet in which an account of the commission or attempted commission of the crime of arson, assault with caustic chemicals, assault with a deadly weapon, burglary, kidnapping, mayhem, murder, rape, robbery, theft, or voluntary manslaughter is set
[20:33:23] <cradek> mayhem? haha
[20:33:36] <cradek> we need special laws for comic books with mayhem in them!
[20:33:51] <skunkworks> where abouts in the manual is the filter info (mainly opening graphic files)
[20:34:00] <JymmmEMC> ...forth by means of a series of five or more drawings or photographs in sequence, which are accompanied by either narrative writing or words represented as spoken by a pictured character, whether such narrative words appear in balloons, captions or on or immediately adjacent to the photograph or drawing.
[20:34:17] <JymmmEMC> cradek: So if you make a horror comic book with 4 pics, your legal =)
[20:34:49] <cradek> what if I offer a comic book for sale OVER THE INTERNET? that needs a special law too!
[20:34:55] <cradek> * cradek makes a wanking motion
[20:35:40] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: what if it's series of 4 horror + 1 nice pic ?
[20:35:58] <cradek> mayhem mayhem mayhem mayhem bunny! mayhem mayhem mayhem mayhem bunny! mayhem mayhem mayhem mayhem bunny!
[20:36:14] <cradek> it does say "in sequence"
[20:36:16] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, then it's nice, of course
[20:36:29] <SWPadnos> after all, it "contains a nice picture"
[20:36:48] <SWPadnos> or it "has an account of fine family values"
[20:36:59] <alex_joni> bunny-mayhem
[20:43:07] <JymmmEMC> 16800. It is unlawful for any two or more persons, or corporations, to combine or agree together to do any act which will, in any respect, prevent any person from buying livestock at any place in this State.
[20:44:45] <JymmmEMC> Sometimes I wish they included the reasoning/history behind laws. That's gotta be some bizare shit.
[20:46:11] <alex_joni> sounds like a form of preventing a "monopson" (not sure if that's the english term for it
[20:46:39] <JymmmEMC> monopoly?
[20:48:19] <alex_joni> I was thinking about monopsony
[20:48:25] <alex_joni> but I guess I remembered wrong
[20:48:44] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopsony
[20:48:52] <JymmmEMC> ah, gotcha
[20:49:07] <JymmmEMC> http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Amonopsony
[20:49:33] <alex_joni> one buyer, lots of sellers
[20:49:44] <alex_joni> monopoly is one seller, lots of buyers
[20:54:26] <JymmmEMC> Mind you , I'm reading CALIFORNIA law here...
[20:54:29] <JymmmEMC> 17206.5. In addition to the persons authorized to bring an action pursuant to Section 17206, the City Attorney of the City of San Jose, with the annual consent of the Santa Clara County District Attorney, is authorized to prosecute those actions. This section shall remain in effect until such time as the population of the City of San Jose exceeds 750,000, as determined by the Population Research Unit of the Department of Finance, and at that time shal
[20:59:15] <alex_joni> it got cut off
[20:59:25] <alex_joni> Department of Finance, and at that time shal
[21:26:13] <JymmmEMC> and at that time shall be repealed.
[21:26:42] <JymmmEMC> Just found it ironic that a state law for one specific city
[21:30:49] <robin_sz> hello, is this thing on?
[21:31:12] <alex_joni> nope
[21:31:35] <dmessier> not wokin' here either..
[21:31:44] <robin_sz> ah, its this windows Vista .. I can;t get it to connect to the internet
[21:32:04] <alex_joni> try debian vista
[21:32:06] <dmessier> ahhhahhhahaa
[21:32:27] <dmessier> yeah what's that all about??
[21:33:09] <robin_sz> debian vista?
[21:33:28] <robin_sz> its the vista compatible release of debian linux
[21:33:56] <robin_sz> its the same as the normal debian with Gnome, but they moved all the controls and commands into weird and new places .. just because.
[21:35:41] <robin_sz> alex_joni: looks like I just ordered a second laser
[21:36:15] <robin_sz> blue one
[21:36:23] <robin_sz> well, blue and white
[21:36:29] <dmessier> for??
[21:36:38] <robin_sz> cutting stuff
[21:36:39] <alex_joni> nice
[21:36:47] <alex_joni> robin_sz: I played with a 6kW one lately
[21:36:55] <robin_sz> ooh, tasty
[21:36:58] <robin_sz> CO2?
[21:37:01] <dmessier> ok i see
[21:37:03] <alex_joni> yeah, it was surprisingly small
[21:37:07] <alex_joni> no.. fiber laser
[21:37:11] <robin_sz> ahh.
[21:37:17] <alex_joni> very sweet
[21:37:24] <robin_sz> 6kw must have been a combined one ..
[21:37:33] <alex_joni> 16 boards
[21:37:41] <robin_sz> 2kw is most they have doen from a single fibre
[21:37:43] <robin_sz> right
[21:37:49] <alex_joni> this was about 300W / board
[21:37:56] <robin_sz> welding, obviously
[21:38:00] <alex_joni> they go up to 30-40 kW these days
[21:38:04] <alex_joni> obviously :)
[21:38:08] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[21:38:19] <dmessier> cool
[21:38:26] <robin_sz> how I wish I had shaers in a laser diode bar maker
[21:38:33] <dmessier> we had an old AMADA
[21:38:40] <robin_sz> ick
[21:38:52] <robin_sz> punch wiht the ram taken out and a laser put in
[21:39:19] <dmessier> yeah... wasnt pretty or fast... but was better than waiting for the wire machine for blancks
[21:39:24] <jepler> whee .. spinning a motor with my xylotex
[21:39:32] <robin_sz> heh
[21:39:34] <jepler> it has terrible microstep linearity
[21:39:34] <dmessier> basically... yeah..
[21:40:03] <robin_sz> our factories are about 500m from the Amada eu head office
[21:40:17] <robin_sz> nicest cafe in the area
[21:40:27] <dmessier> they have some nice stuff nowa days
[21:40:38] <robin_sz> yeah, their offset punch is amazing
[21:41:50] <robin_sz> you have seen a normal CNC punch
[21:41:58] <dmessier> i never liked fast punches like those.... i like all my fingers where they are.. attatched..
[21:42:46] <robin_sz> you know how the top turret sits over the bottom turret, punch in the top, die in the bottom?
[21:43:01] <dmessier> yeah...
[21:43:20] <robin_sz> well, you can imagine how its a pain in the ass to change tools
[21:43:26] <robin_sz> especially dies
[21:43:49] <jepler> no detectable heat on the driver chip, but it's only running at 1A current limit
[21:43:56] <robin_sz> amada do one where the top turret is offset from the lower turret
[21:44:09] <robin_sz> from on top it looks like a figure 8
[21:44:19] <robin_sz> they overlap for the active tool
[21:44:24] <robin_sz> very very neat idea
[21:44:38] <dmessier> gotya...
[21:44:45] <robin_sz> piece of cake to change tools
[21:44:58] <dmessier> sure it would be
[21:45:34] <dmessier> we worked alot of hydraulic spotting presses for prototype work...
[21:46:03] <dmessier> 1 hit - 1 -5 parts at a time thru the process
[21:46:25] <robin_sz> sort of manual, with automated stops?
[21:46:57] <dmessier> no all single hit tooling too...
[21:47:26] <robin_sz> 1 hit, 1 part?
[21:48:03] <robin_sz> or 1 hit, 1 hole
[21:48:12] <robin_sz> move part, 1 hit, 1 hole
[21:48:14] <dmessier> we would pull and leave out certain punches from full transfer stations.. and check out each featur before we hit the whole station
[21:48:38] <dmessier> yeah.. hand transfer.. test/prototype..
[21:49:06] <dmessier> sometimes more than 1 hole...
[21:49:33] <dmessier> slots.. trim lines around keyhole type openings
[21:50:28] <dmessier> our nick name was DOOR-HINGES-R-US
[21:51:29] <dmessier> we had the chrysler hinges down to 4 door sets in 8-10 hours complete... bushed and assembled
[21:52:33] <robin_sz> Ithought chrysler made cars?
[21:53:41] <robin_sz> 2 hours a set is too slow for automotive work?
[21:53:44] <dmessier> i've worked in all sortsa shops over the years
[21:54:03] <dmessier> prototypeing
[21:54:41] <dmessier> we made hinges for the 1999 model year in 1991
[21:54:57] <robin_sz> heh
[21:55:49] <dmessier> we did instrument panels as cut and welds.. for fit & function.. and the detriot auto show cars..
[21:56:18] <robin_sz> they still make cars in detroit?
[21:56:48] <dmessier> we built a few of the first semi-non-drivable prototypes.... a few.. the dont sell em thouygh
[21:57:26] <dmessier> everyone wants a jetta
[21:57:39] <dmessier> i just want a jet
[22:24:19] <dmessier> i found a coleman RANGE model 758... instant gas from gasoline circa 1921ish... ; )
[22:24:45] <dmessier> 3 burners and a nice oven
[22:26:16] <dmessier> enamel is still pretty good...works like a charm...
[22:33:45] <JymmmEMC> oven?
[22:33:58] <JymmmEMC> pic?
[22:42:33] <dmessier> no in the shed when i got up north... next time...
[22:42:34] <alex_joni> get your boats :)
[22:42:57] <dmessier> top and bottom burner in the oven
[22:43:31] <dmessier> big 1 gallon gas tank with a 16" pump...
[22:43:55] <dmessier> knob is 2" dia..
[22:44:07] <dmessier> comfy..
[22:46:39] <dmessier> i contacted the colman factory outlet & museum this aft.. and was put onto a guy whos 96 and still comes in on his own time to talk to folks... so i guess i'll try him tomorrow
[22:47:34] <CIA-24> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/nml_intf/ (emc.cc emc.hh emc_nml.hh):
[22:47:34] <CIA-24> * another go at making wait for input work.
[22:47:34] <CIA-24> tested different scenarios and it seems to work as expected now.
[22:47:34] <CIA-24> * g-code api changed (only M66 used, instead of M66-68), check lyx docs for details
[22:47:34] <CIA-24> * analog part still missing
[22:47:36] <CIA-24> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/main.lyx:
[22:47:36] <CIA-24> * another go at making wait for input work.
[22:47:42] <CIA-24> tested different scenarios and it seems to work as expected now.
[22:47:44] <CIA-24> * g-code api changed (only M66 used, instead of M66-68), check lyx docs for details
[22:47:46] <CIA-24> * analog part still missing
[22:47:48] <CIA-24> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/task/ (emccanon.cc emctaskmain.cc):
[22:47:49] <CIA-24> * another go at making wait for input work.
[22:47:51] <CIA-24> tested different scenarios and it seems to work as expected now.
[22:47:52] <CIA-24> * g-code api changed (only M66 used, instead of M66-68), check lyx docs for details
[22:47:54] <CIA-24> * analog part still missing
[22:47:56] <CIA-24> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/ (8 files):
[22:48:00] <CIA-24> * another go at making wait for input work.
[22:48:02] <CIA-24> tested different scenarios and it seems to work as expected now.
[22:48:04] <CIA-24> * g-code api changed (only M66 used, instead of M66-68), check lyx docs for details
[22:48:06] <CIA-24> * analog part still missing
[22:48:53] <dmessier> analog.. is a plc bit.. m-code complete...
[22:49:26] <dmessier> or not
[22:49:48] <alex_joni> dmessier: didn't get that
[22:50:21] <alex_joni> was that a question?
[22:52:30] <dmessier> maybe a partial brain fart or the answer... all other controls i've been INTO.. have an m-code complete signal... do we??
[22:53:55] <alex_joni> still not sure what you're talking about
[22:54:02] <alex_joni> what's a m-code complete signal?
[22:54:41] <dmessier> only 1 code per line right??
[22:54:45] <dmessier> M
[22:55:06] <dmessier> wait M codes??
[22:55:24] <alex_joni> M-code to wait for an input-- yes, only one
[22:55:42] <dmessier> are you trying to synchronize 2 lathe turrets...
[22:56:26] <alex_joni> dmessier: just adding the hooks
[22:56:32] <alex_joni> the applications are countless :P
[22:57:43] <dmessier> ok.. then independant-timed completion on each channel will be required... do we have it?? yet?
[22:58:03] <alex_joni> I'm not completely understanding you :)
[22:58:32] <alex_joni> what channel?
[22:58:39] <dmessier> are we requiring the programmer to time turrets on feedrate??
[22:59:16] <alex_joni> dmessier: are you referring to my latest changes?
[22:59:36] <dmessier> 1 turret/channel of pos/vel/feedbck/etc im there....to the other..
[23:00:26] <dmessier> i havent seen your latest change... just playing devils advocate.. and asking questions..
[23:00:50] <alex_joni> oh, ok.. then I'm not sure I know what you're talking about
[23:00:57] <alex_joni> (might have missed the beginning of it)
[23:01:26] <dmessier> came from CIA's m-code wait stuff
[23:01:38] <alex_joni> well.. that is my latest change
[23:01:42] <alex_joni> CIA only reports it
[23:01:59] <dmessier> ci
[23:02:09] <alex_joni> what I added is a M66 which waits for a digital input
[23:02:25] <alex_joni> it can wait for a rise, fall, high or low event
[23:02:33] <alex_joni> and it has a certain timeout
[23:02:51] <dmessier> on twin channel fanuc lathes.. m100-m199 were wait codes..
[23:02:56] <SWPadnos> these changes have nothing to do with other M-codes, such as spindle, tool, and coolant control
[23:03:01] <alex_joni> the return value is stored in #5399 (value of the input, or -1 if timeout occured)
[23:03:27] <alex_joni> dmessier: emc has M100-199 reserved for user-defined custom m-codes
[23:03:36] <dmessier> add it to the ed of 1 line on chanell 1 and it WAITS till it seeit on channel 2
[23:04:16] <anonimasu> alex_joni: can you supply a parameter to it?=
[23:04:26] <anonimasu> alex_joni: M66 p10
[23:05:37] <lerman> So, if M66 waits for an input, it must wait for either true or false. Then what is the need for a return value? Is the return just OK or timeout?
[23:05:47] <dmessier> we would need at least 99 of them..
[23:05:47] <alex_joni> anonimasu: sure
[23:06:05] <alex_joni> lerman: return value is value of the input, or -1 if timeout
[23:06:05] <anonimasu> alex_joni: so you can make it wait for a corresponding "sync" event..
[23:06:11] <alex_joni> anonimasu: yes
[23:06:25] <anonimasu> alex_joni: nice!
[23:06:27] <dmessier> yes..
[23:06:29] <anonimasu> great work :)
[23:06:34] <anonimasu> dmessier: I think that concludes it :)
[23:06:37] <lerman> But since you know what you are waiting for, if it isn't a timeout, you know what the value is.
[23:06:48] <alex_joni> anonimasu: the complete stuff is M66 Pxx Eyy Lzz Qtt
[23:07:03] <anonimasu> what's all thoose?
[23:07:03] <dmessier> but we need 99 of the...M99 p01-99??
[23:07:07] <alex_joni> lerman: true.. but couldn't think of a better alternative
[23:07:19] <anonimasu> M66 P1023? would work too.. woudnt it?
[23:07:21] <alex_joni> anonimasu: Pxx = channel of digital input
[23:07:32] <lerman> Alternative is to return true (1) if OK or false (0) if timeout.
[23:07:34] <alex_joni> anonimasu: Eyy = channel of analog input
[23:07:35] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I'm pondering when using them to sync..
[23:07:57] <alex_joni> anonimasu: Lzz = type of sync event (rise, fall, high, low)
[23:08:04] <alex_joni> anonimasu: Qtt = timeout
[23:08:05] <anonimasu> alex_joni: ah ok
[23:08:25] <dmessier> need more than 1 runnin similtaniously... i know... been there have the scars..
[23:08:25] <alex_joni> you can program M66P0 and immediately get the value of input0 into #5399
[23:08:44] <lerman> In the analog case, I assume you just empty the pipeline, then read the value.
[23:09:06] <alex_joni> lerman: for now analog only works in the immediate way (simply read the value)
[23:09:27] <alex_joni> but maybe we can add a treshold, and use the same events as for digital
[23:09:42] <lerman> I would think that all of them should empty the pipeline before starting the timeout.
[23:09:45] <alex_joni> not sure if anyone would need this
[23:09:48] <SWPadnos> those analog inputs are just HAL pins, right?
[23:09:54] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: yeah
[23:10:07] <SWPadnos> ok, so scaling is something to document
[23:10:15] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: one could easily put a comp (comparator) and use the digital input
[23:10:36] <SWPadnos> it's just a number in the interpreter, but it needs to be known that scaling in HAL will affect that
[23:10:39] <alex_joni> lerman: they all work like probing
[23:10:48] <lerman> Consider using a voltage source to control the feed. You would want that to be synced to the actual motion -- gotcha.
[23:11:05] <alex_joni> first everything else is done, then this command starts and further interpreting is stopped
[23:11:29] <lerman> Sounds like you have it right. Good job.
[23:11:30] <alex_joni> after command finished (either input event or timeout) program execution resumes
[23:11:46] <alex_joni> I wouldn't mind another pair of eyes on the code :)
[23:12:41] <alex_joni> lerman: especially since it's interp (should be your specialty not mine :D)
[23:12:41] <lerman> I probably would have just read the value and not have implemented a timeout. -- the gcode writer could do that if he needed it. But I can't argue with your approach.
[23:13:09] <alex_joni> yeah, I agree it can be written with an o-loop
[23:13:16] <alex_joni> but this probably makes it a bit easier
[23:13:18] <lerman> I don't have a machine with EMC2 source on it these days. But I expect that to change soon.
[23:13:34] <alex_joni> * alex_joni doesn't expect CAM outputs to generate M66 stuff
[23:13:39] <lerman> Yes -- it does make it easier.
[23:13:42] <alex_joni> so it'll be probably something handwritten
[23:13:57] <dmessier> some do
[23:14:13] <lerman> And it can easily be put into a subroutine that does just what is needed.
[23:14:18] <dmessier> GIBBS swiss does
[23:14:20] <alex_joni> right
[23:14:33] <alex_joni> dmessier: even better
[23:15:19] <dmessier> show the cam both finished programs.. and add synch's...
[23:15:24] <lerman> I'm looking forward to implementing named o-words. o<WaitForReady> call seems like something that should be handy.
[23:15:46] <dmessier> but sometimes there ARE 16 spindles in the way...
[23:16:12] <alex_joni> heh.. what do you know.. I seem to have 'inspired' someone
[23:16:48] <dmessier> keep smilin' my friend...
[23:17:05] <alex_joni> I mean Koppi's Toy
[23:17:07] <lerman> 1/10 inspiration plus 9/10 perspiration. :-)
[23:17:40] <dmessier> thats how it works
[23:19:53] <dmessier> you forgot the 0.5 % blood
[23:23:49] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:24:04] <lerman> see you
[23:24:22] <dmessier> bwell
[23:41:27] <JymmmEMC> dmessier: That's pretty cool (the stove/oven), I just have a dual fuel, which I love. None of this propane crap.
[23:43:03] <JymmmEMC> dmessier: I've been meaning to get a dutch oven and try my hand at that. There was a PBS wiht a guy that showed the things you can cook in it.
[23:43:14] <JymmmEMC> PBS show
[23:44:00] <SWPadnos> woohoo~ the A/D converters are in stock again!
[23:44:04] <SWPadnos> yay!!!
[23:51:54] <dmessier> JymmmEMC:... dual fuel... gas kero??