#emc | Logs for 2007-08-10

[00:00:08] <toast> you can run it 9000 sfm or 1 sfh
[00:00:14] <dmessier> what kinda chuck??
[00:00:23] <toast> it's a faceplate, machined on the lathe
[00:00:28] <dmessier> i understand sfm..
[00:00:45] <toast> i'm not saying you don't, i'm just saying it doesn't matter on diamond tools
[00:00:52] <dmessier> but part ISN flat to start with...
[00:00:51] <toast> the lathe runs at a constant 300 rpm
[00:01:02] <dmessier> isnt
[00:01:16] <toast> it takes .0001" or .0002" depth of cut passes, at like .0005 per rev
[00:01:50] <toast> rapid is like 5 ipm
[00:02:07] <toast> speedey gonzales
[00:02:09] <dmessier> do you flip and repeat??
[00:02:13] <toast> yep
[00:02:19] <dmessier> over and over??
[00:02:33] <toast> we do kinematic mounting the first two times
[00:02:34] <dmessier> trade speed for resolution..
[00:02:38] <toast> two or three
[00:02:52] <toast> then we mount it via elastic averaging
[00:03:11] <toast> and because we load it vertically, instead of horizontally
[00:03:25] <toast> the stress and heat of holding the part to the spindle
[00:03:27] <dmessier> it falls
[00:03:28] <toast> warps it during mounting
[00:03:49] <toast> if we could mount it horizontally, make sure it wasn't stressed, then let the heat settle out
[00:03:49] <dmessier> wall thickness??
[00:03:53] <toast> it would be fine
[00:04:12] <toast> it's a .630 thick
[00:04:14] <toast> plate
[00:04:35] <dmessier> hmmmm.. sonds hairy...
[00:05:03] <toast> i guess
[00:05:04] <dmessier> so it boinks when you start cutting it..
[00:05:10] <toast> no, the cutting is butter smooth
[00:05:21] <toast> it's flat until you unclamp it
[00:05:23] <dmessier> do you stress relieve it at any point
[00:05:30] <toast> no
[00:05:35] <toast> well actually yes
[00:05:39] <dmessier> try it..
[00:05:52] <toast> getting the company to do anything different for a part that makes it in tolerance
[00:05:54] <toast> isn't gonna happen
[00:05:56] <dmessier> boil a part in water for 1/2 hour
[00:06:27] <toast> i can't steal a five thousand dollar part without someone noticing to try and boil it =(
[00:06:34] <dmessier> throw it outside for a day... and night cycle..??
[00:06:55] <toast> i'm pretty sure it's not unstable
[00:07:04] <toast> i mean, i'm sure it is
[00:07:09] <toast> but not enough to do what's going on
[00:07:19] <toast> because i can put the part back up on the lathe
[00:07:19] <dmessier> but if it makes ALL the next 5000 dollar parts EASY to make... your the hero....
[00:07:28] <toast> lol
[00:07:31] <toast> but how?
[00:07:33] <Ziegler> what is the part for?
[00:07:36] <toast> they're in tolerance NOW
[00:07:39] <toast> bearings
[00:07:44] <toast> air bearings
[00:07:50] <Ziegler> cool
[00:07:55] <dmessier> 1 letter from ZERO though,,, be carefull..
[00:08:00] <toast> ?
[00:08:09] <Ziegler> from hero to zero
[00:08:18] <dmessier> i saved a part like that last summer on PRINCE EDWARD Island
[00:08:35] <toast> but i'm turning these out faster than they thought they could, and my manager is very happy with how i'm doing it
[00:08:45] <toast> zero scrap, no scratches or surface blemishes
[00:09:07] <toast> it's just ME that wants them perfect =(
[00:09:11] <dmessier> ride the RIVER.... ; )
[00:09:14] <toast> it's good I have a boss who is sane
[00:09:21] <toast> or i would get nothing done
[00:09:31] <dmessier> if it aint broke... dont FIX it
[00:10:00] <Ziegler> could you flex the metal the other direction... then cut it, and when you unclamp... have it flex back to shape?
[00:10:07] <dmessier> i have a 25 yr program.. ive settled down.. and ppl ask.. HOW...
[00:10:30] <toast> Ziegler: the problem is that we hold it in screws initially
[00:10:43] <toast> and the screws are not really "locating devices"
[00:10:49] <Ziegler> ah
[00:10:55] <toast> so they bite on one side of the hole or the other
[00:11:01] <toast> depending on how you're holding it to the chuck
[00:11:01] <dmessier> have you tried the low melt allow fillers... to fill the ring into a disk??
[00:11:13] <toast> wh..why would i do that
[00:11:30] <toast> like, i know exactly what is going wrong and why
[00:11:56] <fenn> toast have you tried sedatives?
[00:11:59] <dmessier> to let the ring set in the free state
[00:12:19] <toast> fenn: for me or the faceplate
[00:12:48] <toast> no, i still think about accuracy constantly
[00:13:01] <toast> i actually have problems falling asleep thinking about it
[00:13:05] <dmessier> self medication with recreational pharm's.. always worked in our shop
[00:13:49] <toast> with sedatives i go from "oh man we should build toroidal chucks"
[00:14:01] <dmessier> dont stress yur self if your in spec...
[00:14:03] <toast> to "hey mannnn, you know? we should totally build some, you know, toroidal chucks."
[00:14:57] <dmessier> you
[00:15:02] <toast> me!
[00:15:11] <dmessier> HAVE see harold and Kumar..LOL
[00:15:16] <toast> lol
[00:15:54] <dmessier> brb
[00:19:34] <toast> pew pew pew
[00:19:41] <toast> also guys i apologize for being all "rar accuracy" all the time
[00:19:54] <toast> i'm really not trying to suggest everone needs diamond turning machines, i just like discussing stuff
[00:20:09] <toast> different approaches to things.
[00:29:40] <fenn> seems like the best recipe for a farty customer like nc_cams is to sell him a box with emc in it, just dont tell him it's emc
[00:30:24] <toast> "CME"
[00:35:15] <dmessier> just show them it works... and CAN talk to anything.. from another cnc to a plc... ; )
[00:36:25] <dmessier> fenn: nc_cams???
[00:36:53] <dmessier> what typ of cams??
[00:39:22] <toast> car cams
[00:40:35] <toast> tomp camps
[00:40:37] <toast> er
[00:40:37] <toast> cams
[00:40:56] <toast> the power of suggestion!
[00:41:04] <dmessier> multiple wheels..and all the good stuff.. :0
[00:41:46] <toast> crowning attachments!
[00:51:15] <dmessier> mechanical screw machine cams... MORE fun
[00:52:24] <dmessier> they run at warp (not so ) stupid all day long...
[00:55:34] <toast> hahahaha
[01:50:11] <jmkasunich_> jmkasunich_ is now known as jmkasunich
[01:50:23] <jmkasunich> evening folks
[01:52:05] <jepler> hi jmkasunich
[01:52:24] <jmkasunich> I made the front page of the (local weekly) paper
[01:52:54] <jmkasunich> they printed my photo of the gas line fire
[01:56:51] <cradek> neat
[01:56:56] <cradek> so you're rich now?
[01:57:02] <jmkasunich> no
[01:57:05] <cradek> (with credit I hope?)
[01:57:09] <jmkasunich> yes
[01:57:25] <jmkasunich> "photo contributed by" underneath
[01:58:29] <cradek> cool
[01:59:25] <jmkasunich> the car was driven by a 17 year old girl (fortunately not seriously hurt)
[01:59:32] <jmkasunich> I bet she was on a cell phone
[01:59:44] <cradek> seat belt, I hope
[01:59:56] <jmkasunich> yeah, and/or airbag
[02:00:03] <cradek> the ~ 17 yr olds that ran into me didn't have seat belts on
[02:00:11] <jmkasunich> not smart
[02:00:13] <cradek> dumbshits
[02:00:23] <cradek> they got a ride to the hospital out of it
[02:00:35] <cradek> did not make my day at all.
[02:00:42] <jmkasunich> I can imagine
[02:00:56] <jmkasunich> how bad did it bust your car (or you)?
[02:00:57] <cradek> I think they were ok, but only by luck (they both hit the dash with their faces)
[02:01:22] <cradek> I was fine, car cost many $k
[02:01:42] <jmkasunich> speaking of cars, how's the chev?
[02:01:48] <cradek> it was about '94, I still remember it like yesterday
[02:01:52] <cradek> fixed
[02:01:56] <jmkasunich> yay!
[02:02:30] <cradek> with patience (liquid wrench + jiggling for several days) the valves loosened up
[02:02:56] <jmkasunich> did you figure out the cause, or do you just have theories?
[02:02:57] <cradek> I very painstakingly bent the pushrods back into straight lines and put it all back together
[02:03:25] <cradek> no definitive cause unfortunately. the oil supply on the rockers was fine.
[02:03:40] <jmkasunich> so you're gonna cringe every time you go to start it
[02:03:54] <cradek> I was lazy about putting the lead replacer in the gas. maybe it really needs it in every tank.
[02:04:03] <cradek> yeah no kidding. it's ok so far.
[02:04:47] <cradek> I should sell it while it's running so nice :-)
[02:06:07] <jmkasunich> nah
[02:06:38] <jmkasunich> you are honest enough that you'd wind up telling the potential buyer about the valves anyway
[02:06:57] <cradek> lately I've been tempted to paint it
[02:07:04] <cradek> not sure what
[02:07:10] <jmkasunich> flames!
[02:07:16] <cradek> maybe black with a white roof, like a 50s police car
[02:07:24] <jmkasunich> black with flames!
[02:07:25] <cradek> haha, no thanks
[02:11:44] <cradek> flames would make it go faster, right?
[02:12:38] <jmkasunich> yep
[02:15:22] <cradek> sure are a lot of emc2 videos on youtube now
[02:15:55] <cradek> I should make some more lathe videos, I have a camera for it now
[02:17:38] <JymmmEMC> I hate surgery... hurry up and wait all damn day!
[02:49:27] <jepler> 10000 pulses per revolution !?
[02:49:32] <jepler> that seems a bit extreme
[02:56:28] <jepler> (Kirk Wallace's e-mail)
[03:32:36] <JymmmEMC> does it?
[03:43:12] <fish> hey anyone have the X2?
[04:09:18] <fish> good night guys
[08:21:10] <anonimasu> morning
[08:40:07] <x3rox> cradek: Are you at your keyboard? Have some questions on the L297/L298 board you use.
[08:44:56] <x3rox> does somebody else use the "pminmo" L297/L298 stepper driver board, please? I used its wiring in all important parts, but it is nearly impossible to adjust the current. A very small turn on the trimmer, and the current goes to "ungerulated" on my board.
[08:46:16] <x3rox> would like to know if this is "normal".
[08:48:44] <archivist> sounds abnormal
[08:49:19] <archivist> but I dont have a one of those boards
[08:50:17] <x3rox> Hi! Yes, it is. I just burned a complete L297/298 pair by accidently turning a little bit too much to the right. :-/ With 40V and 25000uF this allows so infinite current that the IC exploded.
[08:50:59] <x3rox> Which drivers do you use?
[08:51:47] <x3rox> Geckodrive would be a fine choice, but is too expensive for my taste.
[08:51:56] <x3rox> ... and needs.
[08:52:42] <archivist> where is the trimpot wired between 16 and 12 L297?
[08:55:01] <archivist> or pin 15
[08:55:44] <x3rox> ? The trimpot's min = ground, trimpot's max goes through a 3.3k resistor to +5V. Trimmpot is 1k. Trimmpot goes to pin 15.
[08:55:52] <archivist> pin 15 spec is 0 to 3V max
[08:56:51] <x3rox> That's ok. Because the trimmpot is the lower part of a voltage divider 3.3k / 1k, I cannot exceed 3V.
[08:57:20] <x3rox> But I am somewhere around 0.xx volts!
[08:57:32] <archivist> and that pin sets current, maybe the osc frequency is off a bit so cant control
[08:58:34] <x3rox> I use the RC chain as recommended: 22k from +5V to a 3.3nF capacitor.
[08:59:28] <x3rox> Well Pminmo uses 51k and 1nF instead...
[09:00:33] <x3rox> Which boards do you use, archivist?
[09:01:09] <archivist> none currently, im reading the SGS databook
[09:01:44] <x3rox> some plans for self buildig?
[09:02:27] <archivist> yes
[09:02:59] <x3rox> which IC's ate you planning to use?
[09:03:51] <archivist> have not decided
[09:11:05] <x3rox> do you think that it helps when I use 51k/1nF instead of 22k/3.3nF? Actually, the chopping frequency will become higher, if I understand right. (is the chopping freq. 1/(r x c) ?
[09:14:23] <x3rox> If so, PMinmo is close to 19.6 kHz, while I am around 13.7 kHz.
[09:46:57] <anonimasu> *yawn*
[11:10:36] <SWPadnos> argh. stupid british keyboards
[11:10:45] <SWPadnos> err - hi
[11:11:29] <archivist> * archivist hugs british layout
[11:12:37] <SWPadnos> at least I can directly type the £ and 20ac symbols though
[11:13:14] <SWPadnos> what's the little horizontal line with the down-tick at the right?
[11:13:23] <SWPadnos> (top left key, shifted)
[11:13:30] <SWPadnos> ¬
[11:13:30] <archivist> how long are you over here
[11:13:32] <archivist> ¬
[11:13:39] <SWPadnos> right - what is it for?
[11:13:44] <SWPadnos> we leave Monday morning
[11:13:48] <archivist> dunno I never use it
[11:13:50] <SWPadnos> heh
[11:14:02] <Vq^> logic negation?
[11:14:33] <SWPadnos> errrrrr
[11:21:30] <anonimasu> btw, http://www.andrews-products.com/Cam_Inspection/ezcam_general_details.htm
[11:21:34] <anonimasu> toast: :)
[11:22:12] <anonimasu> toast: +/- 0.0127mm
[11:25:29] <anonimasu> toast: funny how the sensor is 0.00005" and the +/- of the mechanism is 0.0127mm
[11:25:30] <anonimasu> +/-
[11:27:40] <SWPadnos> see you later. time's up
[12:44:03] <jepler> hi blight_
[12:49:11] <Guest776> jepler: Is your scope working for you?
[12:49:32] <Guest776> Guest776 is now known as skunkworks_
[12:51:55] <jepler> skunkworks_: haven't touched it since the first day, but it seems to work
[12:52:20] <skunkworks_> Good
[12:52:21] <jepler> skunkworks_: did you see me say I think it shows a pluto-step bug though?
[12:52:31] <skunkworks_> no - what is that?
[12:53:23] <jepler> skunkworks_: my test involved always stepping at the maximum rate but reversing direction. Sometimes after the reversal, the step pulse spends twice the normal time "high" -- probably indicating that it stepped twice without an intervening "low" time
[12:53:34] <jepler> skunkworks_: but I haven't gotten around to debugging it further
[12:56:19] <skunkworks_> interesting. I am sure you will figure it out. Or ditch it and go with the mesa equivilant ;)
[12:56:41] <jepler> I have some idea of what it might be
[12:57:39] <jepler> probably this bug would never show its face in normal usage -- it seems tied to reversing quickly with unlimited acceleration
[13:38:52] <jepler> ah good -- I've gotten the pluto-step problem to show up in verilog simulation
[13:39:03] <skunkworks_> Nice
[13:39:21] <skunkworks_> So - your scope isn't wrong ;)
[13:39:33] <jepler> I didn't think it was
[13:39:48] <jepler> but yeah
[13:40:10] <skunkworks_> sometimes people hope.. even though in the back of their mind they know it is right..
[13:41:49] <jepler> http://pastebin.ca/652361
[13:44:24] <skunkworks_> was it what you think it was?
[13:44:33] <skunkworks_> your 'I have an idea'
[13:45:04] <jepler> I still haven't quite made sense of it
[13:45:41] <jepler> during direction changes, the "position" counter is frozen -- normally, velocity is added to it every cycle
[13:46:04] <jepler> in the most general terms, what is happening is that the "position" counter is not being frozen at all the right times
[13:46:53] <jepler> so with that understanding, I know that if you're going at much less than top speed just after a reversal, the expected space between step pulses will be much bigger so even if they come a little closer together than they should after a direction change, they'll still be within the timing constraints of the drive
[13:59:06] <jepler> no, the bug's worse than that :(
[13:59:16] <jepler> well, I guess I know what I'm doing this weekend
[13:59:42] <skunkworks_> your such a trooper. :)
[13:59:50] <skunkworks_> you'r
[13:59:52] <skunkworks_> you're
[13:59:58] <jepler> plan B involves simply removing pluto-step and calling it a bad idea
[14:01:43] <jepler> now it looks like the "double step pulse" is one step that should have been issued before the dir change and one step that should have been issued right after
[14:02:43] <jepler> I've found a way to make it keep issuing steps in one direction (looking at S&D outputs) but reports that the position is still within 1 step of the starting position (looking at position output)
[14:11:01] <CIA-24> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_step_firmware/test_stepgen.v: useful test driver for pluto step generator
[14:11:28] <jepler> hi les
[14:11:36] <les_w> hi jeff
[14:11:35] <CIA-24> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_step_firmware/stepgen.v:
[14:11:35] <CIA-24> fixes "extra step" problems observed on scope and in test_stepgen runs
[14:11:35] <CIA-24> -- have not rebuilt firmware based on this change
[14:13:36] <jepler> so the fix is "do not change direction while there is a pending step" and "do not step when there is a pending direction change" -- hopefully the next bug I discover will not be a way to get a pending direction change and a pending step at the same time
[14:24:00] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[15:42:10] <jlmjvm> would 172.3k be the correct resistor size for 5.5 amps on a gecko stepper drive
[15:45:19] <anonimasu> :)
[15:47:18] <skunkworks_> I don't know how you calculate that - as the resister table isn't linear. Does he have any more info on his site?
[15:48:19] <jlmjvm> the formula was 47*I/(7-I)
[15:48:24] <skunkworks_> R (in kilo-ohms) = 47 * I / (7 2013 I)
[15:48:24] <skunkworks_> ah
[15:49:31] <jlmjvm> bought a pack of 174k 1% 1/4w resistors at the store,was wondering if i got the right ones
[15:50:35] <skunkworks_> I got 172.3 also.
[15:50:54] <skunkworks_> I would think 174 would work just fine.
[15:52:25] <jlmjvm> cool
[15:53:23] <skunkworks_> that would be 5.51a
[15:53:39] <skunkworks_> close enough for me ;)
[15:54:18] <jlmjvm> just got a pacsi stepper working,dont wanna cook it
[15:55:19] <jepler> jlmjvm: I get the same figures as you and skunkworks_
[15:55:37] <jepler> 174+1% would give 5.52A though
[15:56:02] <jlmjvm> i can get some 164k if i need to
[15:56:31] <jlmjvm> will .02a extra cause motor damage
[15:56:42] <archivist> percentage olerload like that is small
[15:56:48] <archivist> overload
[15:56:51] <archivist> no
[15:57:09] <jlmjvm> cool
[16:11:26] <JymmmEMC> les_w: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[16:11:27] <JymmmEMC> les_w: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[16:11:28] <JymmmEMC> les_w: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[16:12:31] <archivist> hmm somebody has overdosed on something again
[16:13:48] <JymmmEMC> archivist: Yeah, yeah, your just jealous cause nobody's ever excited to see you is all ;)
[16:14:51] <JymmmEMC> Damn, this is sad... http://www.marvac.com/news.aspx
[16:17:13] <anonimasu> les_w: Hey!
[16:17:20] <anonimasu> :)
[16:20:32] <JymmmEMC> NTE Cross-Refernce Software http://www.nteinc.com/qc13/
[16:25:08] <JymmmEMC> http://www.marvac.com/fun/power.aspx
[16:31:40] <skunkworks_> NOTE: Win95 users may experience an "Unable to Access Program Manager" error message. Click on "Cancel" and continue
[16:31:47] <skunkworks_> yikes
[16:31:55] <skunkworks_> ;)
[16:35:20] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks heh
[16:35:41] <archivist> #classiccmp is just down the hall
[16:35:48] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks "A Ducumented Feature" =)
[16:37:14] <JymmmEMC> Trivia (no cheating/googling).... What does BNC stand for?
[16:37:28] <cradek> Round Network Connector
[16:37:38] <cradek> bRound
[16:37:48] <skunkworks_> binary?
[16:37:57] <jepler> bayonet
[16:37:59] <archivist> well before networks
[16:38:05] <cradek> oBsolete Network Connector
[16:38:45] <JymmmEMC> Any more?
[16:39:02] <JymmmEMC> And the answer is....
[16:39:06] <JymmmEMC> BNC (Bayonet Neill Concelman) Invented by and named after Amphenol Engineer Carl Concelman and Bell Labs Engineer Paul Neill and was developed in the late 1940's. 
[16:39:29] <skunkworks_> wow
[16:39:46] <jepler> "Different sources expand BNC as Bayonet Navy Connector, British Naval Connector, Bayonet Neill Concelman, or Bayonet Nut Connection."
[16:39:56] <jepler> I think what we have here is a nut connection..
[16:40:27] <JymmmEMC> Ok, now TNC???
[16:40:36] <archivist> threaded
[16:41:46] <JymmmEMC> TNC (Threaded Neill Concelman) Invented by and named after Amphenol Engineer Carl Concelman and Bell Labs Engineer Paul Neill and was developed in the late 1950's. 
[16:41:58] <ds2> quit loading cisco's via the channel :P
[16:42:18] <JymmmEMC> cisco's?
[16:42:43] <ds2> you never done ciscos?
[16:44:37] <JymmmEMC> only cisco.com
[16:45:14] <ds2> oh n/m then
[17:05:24] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[17:13:13] <skunkworks_> NOW thru August 31st!!! All customers receive the 1,000 piece pricing!
[17:13:22] <skunkworks_> http://www.geckodrive.com/
[17:14:02] <bill2or3> cheap.
[17:14:03] <bill2or3> !
[17:14:17] <skunkworks_> that is quite a bit off.
[17:14:56] <JymmmEMC> Heh, I guess Marriss DID listen to me when I asked when they will be going on-sale back in May and the pricing for the 203v was all $147 no matter the qty.
[17:18:27] <JymmmEMC> Most don't think a $1/mo is all that big of a deal, but when you look at 12 to 24 months out, it adds up. $7.95/mo @ 12months = $95.40, $6.95/mo @ 24months = $166.80
[17:19:41] <JymmmEMC> ($1 discount @ 24mo)
[17:52:22] <anonimasu> hi
[17:53:06] <jepler> anyone know of a schematic for a "sign+magnitude" PWM to +-10V analog converter? I can't quite imagine how that works. Does an analog MUX select one of the PWM analog voltage or its inverse from an inverting amplifier?
[17:57:15] <jepler> (by "PWM analog voltage" I mean the output of an RC filter on the PWM input)
[18:00:53] <ds2> isn't that a lot like a scaled up version of an RC servo control?
[18:08:00] <jepler> no, the PWM method of controlling servo motors for CNC is quite different than "RC servos"
[18:09:09] <ds2> no, I mean for the PWM to 10V thing you asked about
[18:11:18] <jepler> I must not be asking my question very well, then
[18:12:16] <ds2> weren't you asking for schematics for a PWM to VFD driver (essentially)? VFDs seems to all want +/-10V for speed control
[18:12:38] <skunkworks_> your wondering how the circuit works to take a dir+pwm and convet it to +/-10v?
[18:12:59] <skunkworks_> convert
[18:13:05] <jepler> right, but RC servos don't take a "sign+magnitude" aka "dir+pwm" signal
[18:13:37] <ds2> Ohhhh I interpreted what you said differently
[18:13:54] <archivist> they just take 50% mark space as 0
[18:13:58] <ds2> cuz the 50% PWM == 0 so you impliclty have a sign
[18:14:09] <ds2> hence sign+mag =)
[18:14:23] <skunkworks_> we are talking 2 pins sign, mag
[18:14:39] <ds2> gotcha...
[18:14:42] <skunkworks_> or pwm, direction
[18:15:00] <ds2> didn't help that I am thinking about the differnet ways to control the spindle on a lathe ;)
[18:15:31] <ds2> n/m then
[18:26:37] <anonimasu> :)
[18:28:07] <archivist> Im contemplating the error step in voltage at the sign change
[18:28:43] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ doesn't normally think that hard
[18:31:05] <archivist> set incorrectly it could be large
[18:34:14] <archivist> hmm a setup mode, set a square wave on the dir pin 0 on the pwm pin and adjust for zero output
[18:35:47] <jepler> in the scheme I proposed, if your digital logic has Vol=0.4v and Voh=2.4 (TTL), you must use gain 4 to get a final output voltage of up to +-9.6V, but now how do you reach within 1.6v of 0v?
[18:37:51] <archivist> some offsets and gain adjustments
[18:39:12] <archivist> but digital ouputs are not designed for analogue stability in their levels
[18:39:28] <archivist> hmm
[18:40:08] <jepler> you mean in that the output voltage depends strongly on the current
[18:41:06] <archivist> and temperature
[18:41:33] <archivist> but most of the time its in a loop so doesnt matter
[18:43:09] <archivist> I like the 50% mark space =0
[18:44:41] <archivist> then electonics can detect real 0 and switch the direction
[18:49:45] <archivist> if its ac coupled the (filtered) the absolute dc offset from the logic is removed only the opamp dc has to be adjusted
[18:49:55] <archivist> dc offset
[18:50:34] <CIA-24> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tests/ccomp/lathe-comp/test.var: repair these tests for now (UVW in sai still not fully completed)
[18:50:34] <CIA-24> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tests/ccomp/mill-g90g91g92/test.var: repair these tests for now (UVW in sai still not fully completed)
[18:50:35] <CIA-24> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tests/ccomp/mill-zchanges/test.var: repair these tests for now (UVW in sai still not fully completed)
[18:50:35] <CIA-24> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tests/ccomp/mill-line-arc-entry/test.var: repair these tests for now (UVW in sai still not fully completed)
[18:53:51] <archivist> then a clean directional switch could be..... possible circuit is filter to A input of a multiplier and B input from dir as +1,-1 (will need stabilizing) then output is +-
[20:16:10] <Unit41> I forgot that place Jymm said to go for rack and pinion
[20:16:20] <Unit41> mcmaster or something
[20:16:46] <Unit41> yep
[20:17:55] <Unit41> http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/grs.cfm
[20:22:25] <lerneaen_hydra> 'lo all
[20:22:37] <Unit41> Carbon Steel Rack - 20º and 14-1/2º Pressure Angle 00-----00 what would be better
[20:22:46] <lerneaen_hydra> I had some issues with axis today, couldn't get run from next line to work. How is it supposed to work?
[20:22:52] <Unit41> 20 deg or the 14-1/2
[20:23:22] <Unit41> gah, why is rack and pinion so expensive
[20:23:49] <Unit41> its fucking bar with teeth on it
[20:24:14] <Unit41> 2 feet for 20 bux
[20:24:18] <Unit41> thats a rip off
[20:24:32] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: looking at the "splash g-code", scroll down to line 58 "G00 Z #1" and click it. The line turns blue. Choose Machine > Set next line, then Machine > Run (or press "r").
[20:24:42] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: the program will be run and start by milling the "M"
[20:24:51] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler: strange
[20:24:55] <lerneaen_hydra> that's exactly what I did
[20:25:04] <lerneaen_hydra> except that it started from the start of the program
[20:25:54] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/setnextline.png
[20:26:02] <skinnypuppy1334> Anyone know a good how to on filesharing b/t feisty and XP?
[20:26:24] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler: most strange
[20:26:40] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler: btw, what's the new button to the right of perspective view?
[20:26:46] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: it makes button 1 do rotate instead of translate
[20:27:01] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, nice
[20:27:15] <jepler> one use is on touchscreen systems..
[20:27:29] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler: I can't seem to see why I couldn't get set next line to work
[20:27:40] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, yeah, that's very true
[20:30:56] <lerneaen_hydra> any idea as to a simple reason as to why set next line didn't work?
[20:31:32] <Unit41> where is the best place to get rack and pinion ?
[20:31:34] <Unit41> in canada
[20:31:44] <Unit41> or anywhere im desperate
[20:32:23] <lerneaen_hydra> nick one off a car
[20:32:30] <lerneaen_hydra> that way you'll surely get one of the right size
[20:32:39] <archivist> for a car
[20:32:54] <lerneaen_hydra> </sarcasm>
[20:33:32] <Unit41> I just wana give up and masterbate but I've been doing that for too long
[20:33:51] <archivist> http://www.hpcgears.com/ are stockists
[20:33:57] <archivist> but UK
[20:34:18] <Unit41> perfect
[20:34:19] <Unit41> ty
[20:34:36] <archivist> they make as well
[20:35:09] <archivist> only 30 miles from here
[20:38:15] <Unit41> what kind of length is 500 ?
[20:38:26] <Unit41> those are some screwy units
[20:38:52] <Unit41> I want that rubber rack
[20:39:54] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: no, nothing comes to mind. I'd test with 2.1 but I don't have it installed anywhere handy ..
[20:40:03] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler: hmm I see
[20:40:11] <lerneaen_hydra> do you know if anyone else has 2.1?
[20:40:26] <lerneaen_hydra> btw, how are G20/21, G94/95 handled?
[20:40:36] <lerneaen_hydra> do the old values stick?
[20:41:01] <jepler> I'm not sure
[20:41:08] <jepler> spindle is another thing I'd wonder about
[20:41:12] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm I see
[20:41:15] <lerneaen_hydra> spindle speed?
[20:41:20] <Unit41> archivist if you pickup some good flexible rack for me, I'll paypal you the money + extra
[20:41:21] <jepler> yeah, or whether it's turning at all
[20:41:25] <jepler> since you skipped over the M3 line after all
[20:41:30] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, yeah
[20:42:03] <lerneaen_hydra> seems to me the most safe thing to do would be to read through the whole file, applying modal settings while going through it
[20:42:04] <archivist> Unit41, get them to post straight to you
[20:42:15] <lerneaen_hydra> essentially doing the part, except without moving
[20:42:27] <Unit41> can I get a roll of any length ?
[20:42:39] <lerneaen_hydra> and then once the selected line is reached motion starts again
[20:42:43] <Unit41> how much is the big teeth stuff per foot I wonder
[20:43:08] <JymmmEMC> Unit41: http://www.hpcgears.com/products/flexible_racks.htm
[20:43:24] <Unit41> im looking at the pdf
[20:43:37] <Unit41> its in pounds and confuses the crap out of me
[20:43:44] <JymmmEMC> Unit41: *1.5
[20:44:00] <archivist> £1 -$2 us
[20:44:06] <lerneaen_hydra> is the pound that low today?
[20:44:14] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, 2x sounds more reasonable
[20:44:31] <archivist> 2.02 I think
[20:44:42] <archivist> but near enough
[20:45:01] <JymmmEMC> 1 U.S. dollar = 0.491908112 British pounds
[20:46:52] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler: you use the program 'units', right?
[20:47:02] <lerneaen_hydra> do you know how to update the currency tables?
[20:47:28] <cradek> dpkg -L units
[20:47:30] <cradek> pick the right file
[20:47:31] <cradek> edit it
[20:47:32] <JymmmEMC> lerneaen_hydra: http://www.google.com/search?q=1+usd+to+gbp
[20:48:10] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek: I was thinking of an automagic update
[20:48:45] <cradek> I don't think units is a good choice to convert between units that change :-/
[20:49:08] <lerneaen_hydra> heh, true, pi doesn't change too often
[20:49:16] <JymmmEMC> bull
[20:49:53] <fenn> how do you do british pounds in units?
[20:50:06] <cradek> UKP works
[20:51:11] <fenn> length of a sidereal day
[20:51:17] <archivist> I wonder if units can deal with barn in acre
[20:52:04] <fenn> 2.4710439e-32 acres per barn?
[20:52:14] <archivist> about right
[20:52:29] <lerneaen_hydra> what's a barn?
[20:52:36] <lerneaen_hydra> or do I even want to know
[20:52:39] <fenn> a unit of area
[20:52:44] <fenn> about the size of a proton or something
[20:52:47] <lerneaen_hydra> err, how large?
[20:52:53] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, right, that scale
[20:53:02] <lerneaen_hydra> I was thinking it was some archaic imperial unit
[20:53:04] <archivist> its 10 -24 square meter or a barn door to an electron
[20:53:25] <archivist> hence the name
[20:53:28] <alex_joni> hi
[20:53:46] <lerneaen_hydra> why not yottameter?
[20:53:48] <lerneaen_hydra> eller
[20:53:50] <lerneaen_hydra> *err
[20:54:05] <lerneaen_hydra> yottasquaremeter
[20:54:15] <lerneaen_hydra> then again, barn rolls off the tongue more easily
[20:54:33] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek: you're not running a 2.1 setup by any chance?
[20:56:02] <fenn> lerneaen_hydra: yoctometer^2 = 1e-48 so picometer^2 = 1e-24
[20:56:34] <lerneaen_hydra> fenn: hmm I was thinking yotta(meter^2)
[20:57:22] <fenn> i dont see how barn is any better than pm^2
[20:58:00] <archivist> barn was a unit named during the cold war
[20:58:21] <fenn> did physicists not use SI in that time??
[20:59:12] <archivist> I cant remember when SI really got going
[20:59:20] <fenn> 1776?
[20:59:27] <lerneaen_hydra> early 1800's?
[22:01:59] <toast> anonimasu:
[22:02:02] <toast> re: way earlier
[22:02:08] <toast> that's lvdt's for you
[22:03:55] <toast> (the camshaft thing/resolution vs accuracy)
[22:07:32] <anonimasu> toast: eh?
[22:07:39] <anonimasu> toast: mechanical accuracy, too
[22:08:26] <anonimasu> toast: if you have a +/- error of 0.01 no matter what you do... you are better off with a 1um linear scale. :)
[22:10:42] <toast> indeed!
[22:10:57] <toast> except lvdts are cheap, i guess
[22:10:57] <anonimasu> or even a rotary encoder..
[22:11:10] <anonimasu> though you end up with other problems..
[22:11:25] <anonimasu> but well, hobbyists shouldnt have the same equipment as the pro's..
[22:11:30] <anonimasu> reasonably..
[22:11:48] <anonimasu> it's like trying to compete with your dt lathes ;)
[22:11:55] <toast> hahah
[22:12:04] <toast> nah, if a hobbyist sets out to do a thing affordably these days
[22:12:06] <toast> it's quite possible
[22:12:17] <anonimasu> toast: yep, that was the whole issue with the cam stuff..
[22:12:31] <fenn> good cheap quick
[22:12:32] <anonimasu> I think the main problem is understanding the numbers anyway..
[22:12:45] <toast> i'm not really sure what he means by understanding the numbers
[22:12:56] <anonimasu> how ramps/cam dynamics affect the engine
[22:13:09] <toast> ah
[22:13:11] <fenn> why do they still use cams?
[22:13:18] <toast> reliable, inexpensive
[22:13:21] <anonimasu> fenn: because there isnt a option to them
[22:13:21] <fenn> for a race car?
[22:13:33] <toast> they use air springs and cams in race cars
[22:13:33] <archivist> mass of the valve and spring.....
[22:13:39] <anonimasu> springs?
[22:13:47] <toast> ?
[22:13:50] <anonimasu> that's old stuff.
[22:13:57] <anonimasu> pneumatic ones ;)
[22:14:16] <fenn> i'd think a solenoid would give you the best control
[22:14:16] <anonimasu> toast: I'd like to build thoose
[22:14:23] <fenn> nice and simple mathematical model
[22:14:29] <anonimasu> fenn: that's been done before.. it dosent work..
[22:14:31] <toast> fenn: the problem is the forces involved in opening an closing the valve
[22:14:32] <anonimasu> yet..
[22:14:43] <toast> compared with the available power in a race car
[22:14:55] <fenn> 500+hp isnt enuf eh
[22:15:14] <toast> how do you intend to turn that power into current
[22:15:21] <toast> the alternators they use are miniscule
[22:15:29] <fenn> water cooled alternator?
[22:15:31] <anonimasu> err and how are you going to handle the heat?
[22:15:42] <anonimasu> or well, fit a coil that will handle that kind of power..
[22:15:50] <fenn> dont tell me hydraulics is more efficient than alternator/solenoid
[22:16:01] <toast> one dude recently made a servohydraulic system that worked
[22:16:10] <toast> i don't think it's out of the prototype stage, i haven't been keeping up with it
[22:16:12] <anonimasu> fenn: it dosent work, well, yet..
[22:16:26] <fenn> do race cars have to use 12V for any particular reason?
[22:16:27] <anonimasu> fenn: there are several manufacturers working on it..
[22:16:33] <toast> fenn: no
[22:16:39] <anonimasu> yes
[22:16:45] <toast> yes?
[22:16:51] <anonimasu> most equipment are standardized to 12v..
[22:16:50] <toast> there are 48 volt cars
[22:16:54] <anonimasu> 12 or 24v
[22:17:05] <fenn> well the more volts the better
[22:17:06] <anonimasu> yes, certainly...
[22:17:25] <toast> nothing in a race car is standard if they don't want it to be, is my point
[22:17:38] <anonimasu> toast: well, at sane levels :P
[22:17:38] <toast> unless it's a hobbyist car
[22:17:53] <toast> yeah, then i agree, 12 volt is going to be what you're stuck with
[22:17:59] <fenn> dc-dc converter can give you whatever you want wherever you want
[22:18:14] <anonimasu> thats not remotely the point..
[22:18:29] <toast> what would you do with a 120v line if none of your gear runs on that
[22:18:33] <fenn> cams.. pff
[22:18:41] <anonimasu> fenn: so, build a better system..
[22:18:48] <fenn> fine
[22:18:47] <anonimasu> fenn: cams do work, other stuff dosent yet..
[22:18:50] <anonimasu> :O)
[22:18:52] <anonimasu> :)
[22:18:55] <toast> you're going to have to work hard to beat cams and air springs
[22:18:59] <anonimasu> yep
[22:19:02] <toast> they're good to 40k rpm
[22:19:04] <anonimasu> unlimited rpm and no float..
[22:19:05] <fenn> i'm not going to use a stupid piston engine anyway
[22:19:12] <anonimasu> and if you get float you turn up the pressure
[22:19:21] <anonimasu> fenn: while rotary valves and all are cool..
[22:19:25] <anonimasu> fenn: how do you seal them?
[22:19:54] <anonimasu> a round ball with a hole through that has one side exposed do combustion pressure/heat
[22:20:09] <fenn> heh get some ball valves from home depot
[22:20:15] <anonimasu> im serious
[22:20:22] <fenn> d00d
[22:20:28] <anonimasu> fenn: to get the seal you need them really precise..
[22:20:35] <fenn> srsly ball valves
[22:21:01] <Ziegler> http://images.google.com/imagelabeler/
[22:21:09] <Ziegler> saw an emc picture in that game
[22:21:11] <fenn> bah
[22:21:23] <fenn> poor substitute for AI
[22:22:25] <anonimasu> :)
[22:23:52] <anonimasu> toast: I'd love to make a set of pneumatic springs
[22:24:56] <anonimasu> fenn: well, we all have our interests
[22:25:32] <anonimasu> :)
[22:25:49] <fenn> tesla's bucket valve thing seemed like a good idea
[22:25:59] <fenn> no moving parts
[22:26:09] <anonimasu> bucket valve?
[22:26:30] <fenn> http://www.mne.psu.edu/me415/fall04/APC2/
[22:28:04] <anonimasu> hm..
[22:28:21] <anonimasu> how does that work with low input pressure and high reverse high pressure?
[22:28:27] <fenn> it was intended for use in a gas turbine
[22:29:42] <les_w> hi guys. bucket valve is neat!
[22:29:56] <fenn> you mix air and natural gas in a combustion chamber, explode it, and the valvular conduit has high reverse impedance
[22:30:05] <fenn> so the expanding gases have to exit through the turbine nozzle and spin the turbine
[22:30:09] <fenn> no compressor
[22:30:18] <les_w> no moving parts pulsejet!
[22:30:25] <anonimasu> yep
[22:30:25] <fenn> only works at relatively high frequency
[22:30:31] <fenn> les kinda
[22:30:35] <anonimasu> fenn: well, that dosent work for normal ic engines :)
[22:30:45] <fenn> pulsejet works on the fact that air is drawn into a tube from all directions but only expelled in one direction
[22:31:04] <les_w> I have seen many pulsejet videos on youtube. What noisemakers!
[22:31:06] <fenn> anonimasu: sure it does, just need to get the rpm up
[22:31:50] <anonimasu> oh yeah, how stupid of me :)
[22:32:34] <fenn> more like a two-stroke engin
[22:32:57] <les_w> pulsejet+compressor I guess
[22:33:15] <les_w> oops minus compressor
[22:33:29] <les_w> but exaust turbine
[22:33:46] <skunkworks> * skunkworks started building a pulse jet in grade school
[22:33:59] <skunkworks> used reed valves
[22:34:10] <skunkworks> never finished it.
[22:34:15] <les_w> noisemaker + slight side effect of thrust
[22:34:32] <fenn> if you call delivering bombs across the english channel a slight side effect..
[22:34:39] <les_w> yeah
[22:34:45] <les_w> v-1
[22:35:01] <skunkworks> atleast you could hear them coming'
[22:35:08] <skunkworks> unlike the next generation
[22:35:08] <les_w> yup
[22:35:20] <fenn> supersonic pulsejet :D
[22:35:38] <fenn> quick patent it!
[22:35:48] <les_w> right...v2 was supersonic...just sudden boom out of nowhere
[22:36:00] <anonimasu> :
[22:36:01] <anonimasu> :)
[22:36:55] <fenn> how the heck is there only 2 google hits for supersonic pulsejet
[22:37:17] <toast> the hobbyists attempting it clearly spent all their money
[22:37:19] <toast> and can't afford to make webpages
[22:37:32] <les_w> because ramjets work just fine at high mach?
[22:38:04] <toast> les_w: when did ramjets get mentioned
[22:38:08] <fenn> well.. what if you have a y-shape tube that switches between pulse and ram jet modes, for sub/super flying
[22:38:09] <les_w> haha
[22:38:25] <anonimasu> cute
[22:38:36] <Ziegler> does that check valve work?
[22:38:50] <les_w> I only get to fly at mach 0.2 or less anyway....
[22:38:54] <anonimasu> Ziegler: in theory and on a bench
[22:39:07] <anonimasu> Ziegler: does that qualify as working?
[22:40:01] <fenn> does reynolds number change with frequency?
[22:40:23] <les_w> frequency of what?
[22:40:32] <fenn> frequency of pressure change
[22:40:44] <fenn> or, momentum
[22:40:49] <fenn> i dont know the right words
[22:40:57] <blight_> !thislog
[22:41:01] <fenn> a fluid moving back and forth
[22:41:00] <blight_> no log bot?
[22:41:05] <fenn> logger_emc: bookmark
[22:41:05] <fenn> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-08-10.txt
[22:41:09] <blight_> someone spoke my name but myl og is too short ;)
[22:41:26] <blight_> i'm just here for cradek cause i found a log on google where he said he programmed the F8 CPU :-P
[22:41:48] <blight_> he must be old (40-50 years) if he did ;)
[22:41:52] <blight_> bbiab
[22:41:52] <fenn> nope
[22:42:05] <fenn> he's into antiquated electronics though
[22:42:26] <les_w> <cough>
[22:42:41] <fenn> so how's your factory coming along?
[22:42:56] <fenn> made any product yet? ;)
[22:43:08] <les_w> me?
[22:43:12] <fenn> yea who else has a factory?
[22:43:14] <les_w> good! yes!
[22:43:57] <les_w> itw owns a majority though!
[22:44:16] <les_w> but I have a bit!
[22:44:18] <fenn> you're responsible for it, that means its yours i guess
[22:44:42] <les_w> it means I'm an employee hahah
[22:49:43] <les_w> with an ok stock option.
[22:54:32] <les_w> unless I screw up of course.
[22:56:05] <fenn> speaking of screw up
[22:56:14] <fenn> why does your ballscrew have that pitch corrector thingy?
[22:56:30] <fenn> instead of doing it in software with error maps
[22:57:42] <toast> pitch corrector?
[22:57:55] <fenn> about 1/4 down the page http://www.lmwatts.com/cnc.html
[22:58:25] <toast> that's how some jig borers do it
[22:58:34] <toast> it works pretty well
[22:59:57] <fenn> are the twin ballscrews mechanically geared together?
[23:00:39] <lerneaen_hydra> does the price of a ballscrew go up greatly with the diameter?
[23:00:53] <fenn> yes, but it does not go down proportionally :(
[23:01:04] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, o
[23:01:06] <lerneaen_hydra> *ok
[23:02:19] <toast> you shouldn't need a huge ballscrew
[23:02:44] <lerneaen_hydra> I was thinking for long travel distances
[23:02:57] <lerneaen_hydra> so the windup in the axle isn't too large
[23:03:17] <toast> you can make slides to hold the screw up
[23:03:40] <toast> but if bigger will take care of the problem in budget, yeah
[23:04:01] <lerneaen_hydra> no, windup in the screw becuase of the torque in it
[23:04:10] <toast> oh
[23:04:51] <fenn> first of all, what is this for?
[23:05:16] <fenn> machining hardened steel or positioning mirrors?
[23:05:17] <lerneaen_hydra> me? I was just musing
[23:05:39] <lerneaen_hydra> if a larger diameter doesn't cost much more then why not
[23:05:51] <fenn> because the inertia is higher
[23:06:04] <fenn> and the pitch is usually higher too
[23:06:16] <lerneaen_hydra> intertia is true
[23:06:28] <fenn> and.. something about friction and leverage
[23:06:40] <fenn> higher ball velocity means its less efficient
[23:06:41] <lerneaen_hydra> it's diameter^2 right (energy stored in the rotation)
[23:06:48] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, that's also true
[23:06:54] <toast> noisier
[23:06:57] <lerneaen_hydra> the balls can be larger though
[23:07:01] <toast> brinneling
[23:07:07] <toast> with larger balls
[23:07:27] <fenn> always thought it was the other way around
[23:07:59] <toast> less contact area with a larger/fewer balls than with smaller/many balls
[23:08:01] <fenn> in bicycles for instance
[23:08:13] <fenn> you use small bearings in the headstock and large bearings in the crankshaft
[23:08:23] <fenn> headstock always gets brinnelled.. never seen it on a crankshaft
[23:08:51] <toast> just what i've seen in the bearing texts
[23:09:05] <toast> don't have any personal experience with roller element design
[23:09:12] <toast> either that or i misread it
[23:09:18] <lerneaen_hydra> brinnelled?
[23:09:22] <fenn> dents
[23:09:27] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, right
[23:09:25] <fenn> its a stupid word
[23:09:38] <toast> it comes from the brinell hardness test
[23:10:01] <lerneaen_hydra> usually the force on the crankshaft is a lot less than the intermittant force on the headstock (or so I would believe)
[23:10:29] <lerneaen_hydra> as the applied force comes from something meaty and relatively soft, whereas the headstock has steel on both sides
[23:10:42] <toast> i just see a lot of big lathes that use many, many rolling elements
[23:10:51] <toast> for headstock bearings
[23:10:53] <toast> if they don't go plain
[23:10:57] <fenn> lerneaen_hydra: how about the axle bearings then?
[23:11:41] <toast> this warrants looking up again
[23:11:45] <fenn> please do
[23:11:48] <toast> i may very well have it backwards
[23:12:02] <toast> the books and stuff are at work
[23:12:04] <toast> so, monday
[23:12:46] <lerneaen_hydra> fenn: hmm, good point
[23:12:57] <lerneaen_hydra> they're quite small
[23:13:03] <lerneaen_hydra> never seen much denting there
[23:13:04] <fenn> oh duh
[23:13:10] <fenn> the headstock doesnt spin, thats why
[23:13:17] <toast> oh
[23:13:16] <lerneaen_hydra> err
[23:13:19] <lerneaen_hydra> right
[23:13:25] <lerneaen_hydra> duh
[23:19:38] <toast> pew pew
[23:19:49] <toast> i saw a neat table lock design
[23:19:55] <toast> that doesn't shift the table when you fasten it
[23:20:16] <fenn> um, tighten the gib?
[23:20:22] <toast> that shifts the table
[23:20:27] <fenn> superglue
[23:20:48] <fenn> alright what was it
[23:20:49] <toast> this thing was two steel strips, with a thin strip in between to give it spring
[23:20:54] <toast> I'M TYPING HOLD ON
[23:21:13] <toast> the bottom attaches to the saddle, fixed, and the top one goes on the table
[23:21:37] <toast> holds it axially without exerting signifigant force in the other axis
[23:21:48] <toast> little leaf spring deal
[23:22:10] <fenn> er, what's this called now?
[23:22:13] <toast> i dunno
[23:22:15] <toast> it's just a table lock
[23:22:24] <toast> that doesn't move the table when you engage it
[23:22:27] <toast> like a gib lock does
[23:25:29] <toast> just thought i'd mention something that wasn't a diamond turning machine for once
[23:25:33] <toast> =)
[23:26:48] <fenn> ok i got it.. like a credit card swiper
[23:27:13] <toast> kind of, yes!