#emc | Logs for 2007-08-03

[00:00:02] <toastydeath> then quickly reverse the machine
[00:00:05] <toastydeath> when the tap stops
[00:00:11] <toastydeath> awww yeah
[00:00:14] <toastydeath> high tech
[00:00:18] <dmessier> yup... trying to gain experienc are ya...LOL
[00:00:25] <toastydeath> hahahaha
[00:00:30] <toastydeath> you and your fancy equipment =((((
[00:00:54] <dmessier> none was mine... all customers.. or trade shows
[00:02:08] <dmessier> we had 1 machine at a show.. that was already sold.... owner come by seen me pounding the SNOT outta his new machine... asked how many yrs i figure it could do that...
[00:02:44] <toastydeath> hahahah
[00:02:53] <dmessier> told him probably 20 or so.... he ordered another that day...
[00:02:53] <toastydeath> "ONE"
[00:03:04] <toastydeath> what brand?
[00:03:07] <dmessier> no not a TOSHIBA
[00:03:14] <toastydeath> mori?
[00:03:18] <dmessier> pooo
[00:03:24] <toastydeath> OH DID I NAIL IT?
[00:03:28] <toastydeath> is it mori seiki?
[00:03:37] <dmessier> they use toshibas to make all the other jap machines
[00:04:09] <toastydeath> i'm not really familiar with ALL that many makes and varities of CNC machine
[00:04:38] <dmessier> http://toshibamachine.ca/
[00:05:10] <toastydeath> neat looking machines!
[00:05:40] <dmessier> it was the MPF - ds series
[00:06:04] <toastydeath> and some dude bought another machine
[00:06:11] <toastydeath> because you hammered on one?
[00:06:20] <toastydeath> i kind of want to hear this
[00:06:30] <dmessier> some came with orbit boring capabilities... turns a horizontal machining center into a lathe
[00:06:43] <toastydeath> or close to a lathe =/
[00:06:48] <dmessier> close enuf
[00:07:28] <dmessier> interpolates an x-y circle as it points the nose of a bbar at the center of the part
[00:07:45] <dmessier> and moves in z as a lathe
[00:08:10] <dmessier> x-y circles can define tapers rads etc.
[00:08:36] <dmessier> so the part stand still and the bbar spins
[00:08:47] <dmessier> and moves
[00:09:03] <toastydeath> yeah
[00:09:09] <toastydeath> i just don't like the issues involving the steps
[00:09:20] <dmessier> what steps??
[00:09:21] <toastydeath> that a lathe doesn't have for a true rotary axis
[00:09:34] <toastydeath> stepping the tool
[00:09:41] <toastydeath> to interpolate a circle
[00:10:08] <dmessier> no... its interpolating the tool as a lathe.. you could not tell it wasnt a turned finish
[00:10:30] <toastydeath> i know what you are saying
[00:10:36] <dmessier> still single pointing it
[00:10:44] <toastydeath> the problem is that it's not a true rotary axis
[00:10:58] <toastydeath> and doesn't have the rotational performance of one
[00:11:03] <toastydeath> in terms of accuracy
[00:11:14] <toastydeath> but that's probably not an issue where it would be employed
[00:11:24] <toastydeath> or if it is they use a ballbar to make sure the machine will do it
[00:11:39] <toastydeath> i'm just freaked out with a lot of the crap people are trying to get away with
[00:11:47] <dmessier> true.. we had a set of spreadsheets you had to run all speed and feeds thru to meet circularity bogey
[00:12:09] <dmessier> like what???
[00:13:36] <toastydeath> it's hard to come up with examples
[00:13:41] <toastydeath> but that is a clear one
[00:13:50] <toastydeath> CMMs are another
[00:13:54] <toastydeath> for checking EEVVVERRYYTHING
[00:14:39] <toastydeath> i do enjoy the idea of milling on a lathe
[00:14:45] <toastydeath> but not turning on a mill
[00:15:04] <toastydeath> swiss lathes bug me
[00:15:11] <toastydeath> most of the modern ones, anyway
[00:18:19] <ds2> swiss lathe == screw machine?
[00:18:32] <toastydeath> nah
[00:18:42] <toastydeath> just the spindle
[00:18:45] <toastydeath> there's two of them
[00:18:53] <toastydeath> one's a static guide bushing
[00:18:59] <toastydeath> and the spindle is the Z axis
[00:19:08] <toastydeath> pushing and pulling the stock through the guide bushing
[00:21:01] <toastydeath> modern CNCs are starting to use regular collets
[00:21:07] <toastydeath> instead of real guide bushings
[00:21:15] <toastydeath> and they use gang tools
[00:21:19] <toastydeath> similar to screw machines
[00:21:29] <toastydeath> except instead of having like, multiple tools run at the same time
[00:21:33] <toastydeath> it's all one at a time!
[00:21:34] <toastydeath> ridiculous
[00:21:42] <toastydeath> more of a retarded lathe
[00:21:50] <toastydeath> instead of a hybrid screw machine
[00:29:20] <dmessier> ive accomplished some near impossible on some nearly obsolete equipment...
[00:29:37] <toastydeath> lol
[00:29:47] <toastydeath> well this is new and retarded equipment
[00:29:58] <toastydeath> not old and obsolete, which usually just means "good but slow"
[00:30:08] <dmessier> screw machines... are a devil ALL thier on.... THEY ARE THE MOST EFFICIENT machine on this plant
[00:30:35] <toastydeath> yes but imagine if you made a machine as difficult to set as a screw machine
[00:30:38] <ds2> screw machines are those that are programmed with a cam, right?
[00:30:43] <toastydeath> but had none of the efficiency
[00:30:45] <toastydeath> yessir
[00:30:49] <toastydeath> cam(s)
[00:31:45] <dmessier> even old cam ones... i love working them... pack a zig-zag papers in your pocket and off you go... 1 scrapper.. and a vew papers later a good part... as she warmed up... you pulled papers from stops...
[00:32:07] <toastydeath> loool
[00:32:42] <dmessier> zigs are .001" ... dry... wet .0004
[00:33:56] <dmessier> ive set up cnc screws and although nice for swap over... if you can leave it set up as we did... it CANT be beat
[00:34:12] <toastydeath> so i hear!
[00:34:33] <dmessier> we had 30 parts set and ready to roll on 30 machines.... 8-10 k per machine investment
[00:34:51] <toastydeath> cheap by cnc standards
[00:34:56] <dmessier> yes
[00:34:58] <toastydeath> i've tried to get work to buy one
[00:35:08] <toastydeath> a multi-spindle, i hear they're slower but easier to set
[00:35:15] <toastydeath> than the single spindles
[00:35:16] <dmessier> are on the PIPE
[00:35:24] <toastydeath> ?
[00:35:35] <dmessier> are smokin crack???
[00:36:07] <toastydeath> no, i was talking about this with some gentlemen who did it for a living
[00:36:20] <dmessier> multi's make a part in the longest tools cycle time.... NOT the cumulative time of all tools...
[00:36:41] <toastydeath> these guys were saying they got most of the part done simultaniously
[00:36:51] <toastydeath> and that since the single tool indexed much faster, they got more parts per minute
[00:37:04] <dmessier> they are for big #s.. set-ups a biatch..
[00:37:16] <toastydeath> we have like, the same ten parts we make
[00:37:18] <toastydeath> and we make like 100
[00:37:22] <toastydeath> but it takes a week
[00:37:38] <toastydeath> if setup takes one or two days, but running only takes half a day
[00:37:42] <toastydeath> that's time saved even though setup sucks
[00:37:45] <toastydeath> and it's the same damn parts
[00:38:02] <dmessier> is it all collet work??
[00:38:05] <dmessier> bar??
[00:38:06] <toastydeath> yes
[00:38:06] <toastydeath> yes
[00:38:13] <toastydeath> the problem is some parts have back-work
[00:38:14] <toastydeath> so we'd need a second op
[00:38:27] <dmessier> no
[00:38:41] <toastydeath> how do you do back work on a multi-spindle?
[00:38:45] <dmessier> twin spindle...
[00:38:48] <toastydeath> oh?
[00:38:52] <toastydeath> hmm
[00:38:55] <toastydeath> i don't believe i've seen one of those
[00:38:58] <dmessier> not multi... is your way to go
[00:39:03] <toastydeath> hmm
[00:39:15] <dmessier> search DMG twin 32
[00:39:21] <dmessier> dia???
[00:39:26] <toastydeath> big
[00:39:34] <dmessier> how big??
[00:39:35] <toastydeath> well not big
[00:39:37] <toastydeath> 3" and 4"
[00:39:41] <dmessier> bar??
[00:39:47] <toastydeath> most aren't that big, but yes, in bar
[00:40:09] <dmessier> nakamurra-tome tw???
[00:40:13] <toastydeath> what
[00:40:19] <dmessier> comes with fanuc controls
[00:40:30] <toastydeath> well i was more looking at like the 8-10k solution
[00:40:39] <dmessier> search Nakamurra-tome
[00:41:08] <dmessier> then you sub all the work to me and it'll be ok
[00:41:15] <toastydeath> hahaha
[00:41:40] <toastydeath> yeah this stuff is new
[00:41:44] <toastydeath> we aren't looking at "new" machines
[00:42:20] <dmessier> no 1980's ish equipment
[00:42:23] <toastydeath> oh
[00:42:40] <toastydeath> it's all academic though
[00:42:45] <toastydeath> they are awful at buying machines
[00:43:11] <dmessier> chk em out.. i seen a few little ones on ebay
[00:43:32] <toastydeath> bookmarked
[00:44:29] <toastydeath> we are operating with like bare bones equipment
[00:44:35] <toastydeath> i find it hilarious
[00:44:44] <toastydeath> we have two planers, actually
[00:44:51] <toastydeath> but the engineers broke them trying to turn them into other things
[00:45:04] <toastydeath> which is sad, because we have jobs that would be amazing to run on the planers
[00:45:11] <dmessier> well at least you can make something flat...
[00:45:18] <toastydeath> well, we could
[00:45:21] <toastydeath> until they broke them
[00:45:29] <toastydeath> plus nobody there knows what a planer does except me
[00:45:36] <dmessier> opps
[00:45:44] <dmessier> yeah
[00:45:47] <toastydeath> "hey a machine with a big table, let's buy two"
[00:45:51] <toastydeath> used, natch
[00:45:56] <toastydeath> but still in amazing condition
[00:47:29] <toastydeath> we also have ridiculous bore requirements
[00:47:36] <toastydeath> and machines that can't hold it
[00:47:38] <toastydeath> it's great stuff
[00:48:55] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[00:49:54] <dmessier> bbl
[00:50:07] <toastydeath> cya
[01:01:51] <fenn> how do you break a planer?
[01:05:24] <jmkasunich> same way you break any machine
[01:13:41] <dmessier> you start makin' it do sumtin else???
[01:15:02] <dmessier> any one need a nice SNK 3 spindle verticle machinig center... probably sell for a steal...
[01:15:22] <jmkasunich> shipping included?
[01:15:28] <dmessier> doubt it
[01:15:52] <dmessier> has hardly wrked in our place
[01:16:10] <dmessier> ran... always ready to work...
[01:16:38] <dmessier> its my poor WHITE ELEPHANT
[01:17:37] <dmessier> they wont let me run it as a single spindle vert... and 3 of everything is tooooo expensive these days
[01:18:04] <dmessier> i just hate walking past it these days
[01:19:57] <dmessier> Beutifull machine sitting STILL for 9-10 mnonths or the yr.. last 2 yrs..
[01:20:12] <dmessier> of the yr
[01:31:30] <JymmmEMC> Trying to file this block even aint happening... I'm starting to bevel the edges =(
[01:32:27] <JymmmEMC> \__________________________________________________________________/
[01:32:50] <JymmmEMC> on the return stroke that is
[01:38:39] <dmessier> a file only works 1 way... lift it on the back stroke
[01:39:51] <dmessier> hold yur fingers tight oto the plate.. alighn the file square and stroke... lift.. retract.. repeat.. as reqiuired
[01:40:13] <dmessier> your draw filing i presume??
[01:40:37] <dmessier> file at 90 deg to plate
[01:42:08] <dmessier> cause strkin' across'll fackit all up
[02:37:27] <JymmmEMC> yeah
[02:37:56] <JymmmEMC> mowed the lawn to work off some frutstration
[02:38:20] <JymmmEMC> took apart and lubed the lawn mower too
[02:38:38] <JymmmEMC> fscking grease gun... leaks and it's in 12 plastic bags
[02:39:57] <JymmmEMC> file is fixed, drawing block across file againest a 2x6 al angle
[02:53:18] <dmessier> smart
[02:53:31] <ds2> Mmmmm planers
[02:53:37] <ds2> great benches
[02:53:53] <dmessier> awesome suface plates
[02:54:05] <dmessier> surface
[02:55:10] <dmessier> good machines when we still has skilled tradesmen to run them... now everyone is a tec'y of some sort
[02:56:21] <ds2> one would think a planer is a perfect machine for a black and white move... one where the villian ties the hero down on and turns on after twiddling his mustache and letting out a evil laugh
[02:56:41] <dmessier> we are/and will lose our grass roots manual machineists to safety regs..
[02:57:19] <dmessier> yup... thats the one
[02:57:27] <jmkasunich> ds2: did you see the long planer on youtube?
[02:57:30] <jmkasunich> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiBG-Hpd1ZU
[02:57:54] <ds2> got an extractor script? I don't permit my browsers to run flash and my current script no longer works
[02:58:00] <jmkasunich> and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzsQnKJGYtk
[02:58:08] <dmessier> but many old one had side milling heads and stuff... set up an POUND thru
[02:58:12] <ds2> just need to pull the FLV out and I am set
[02:59:11] <jmkasunich> that part must be 15 feet long at least
[02:59:35] <ds2> the only "planner" I've ever seen in person was made into a nice bench
[02:59:39] <dmessier> old equipment put the man on the moon... dont discredit it..
[03:00:11] <jmkasunich> the clapper box on this one seems to be automatic
[03:00:25] <dmessier> THAT ist a true planer
[03:00:28] <ds2> too bad I am not in the rust belt or I'd go look for a small shaper just to have one
[03:00:56] <jmkasunich> ds2: I am in the rust belt, and I can tell you that _small_ shapers are rare and surprisingly expensive
[03:01:13] <jmkasunich> 3000lb ones on the other hand aren't too hard to find
[03:01:20] <dmessier> shapers are usefull anchors
[03:01:28] <ds2> jmkasunich: really? thought sears sold the atlas one and they as common as the atlas lathes?
[03:02:10] <jmkasunich> I've seen exactly one small shaper in several years of prowling surplus places
[03:02:19] <jmkasunich> south bend 7"
[03:02:25] <jmkasunich> and I still kick myself for not buying it
[03:02:34] <dmessier> i loved walking that machine all over the shop... ; )
[03:02:36] <jmkasunich> but at the time I needed a drillpress more
[03:02:38] <ds2> heh
[03:02:56] <jmkasunich> I've seen a number of 20-30" ones, usually for $150 or so
[03:03:00] <ds2> don't the SB ones fetch their weight in gold just cuz of hte SB name?
[03:03:13] <dmessier> till the cord pulled out
[03:03:15] <jmkasunich> going rate is about $700 I think
[03:03:48] <jmkasunich> the one I saw 5+ years ago, the guy wanted $250, because he specialized in woodworking stuff and wanted to get rid of it
[03:03:53] <dmessier> wel worth the price
[03:03:55] <jmkasunich> hence the kicking
[03:04:11] <dmessier> BOOT to the head
[03:05:00] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: I hate when that happens. Went to flea market saw a opto22 relay board filled with 20 relays, wanted $20. and to think about it and when I came 20 minutes later.... POOF!
[03:05:11] <JymmmEMC> s/and/had/
[03:05:29] <dmessier> i lost a a lathe last nit on ebay.... over 300.00 dollars
[03:06:14] <dmessier> i have some of them... you need opto22 relay...
[03:06:36] <dmessier> not 20... but maybe 6 or 8
[03:06:44] <JymmmEMC> dmessier: Just need two SSR now.
[03:08:07] <jmkasunich> that big planer takes 38 seconds to make one pass
[03:08:10] <dmessier> i'll look in the basement... may need a trip to the storage unit.. but i have some from BARDER_AIR pneumatic PLC
[03:08:36] <jmkasunich> and it looks like its taking a chip 1/2" wide
[03:08:50] <dmessier> efficient
[03:09:27] <dmessier> the ones i seen couldnt work that SMALL
[03:09:33] <ds2> wonder how big of a grinder you'd need to make bits for
[03:09:43] <JymmmEMC> ds2: Thanks though. I'll probably order these ($1 more for 40A instead of 20A) http://cgi.ebay.com/Solid-State-Relays-SSR-24-220V-DC-40A-Heat-Sink_W0QQitemZ230156508112QQihZ013QQcategoryZ78207QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[03:09:59] <JymmmEMC> ds2: includes heatsink
[03:10:08] <ds2> ????????
[03:10:27] <JymmmEMC> ds2: just look,
[03:10:33] <dmessier> how small you need them??
[03:10:35] <jmkasunich> ds2: the toolholder looks like it has a 1 or 1.5" shank, tool itself is 1/2" square HSS
[03:11:47] <JymmmEMC> ds2: I only need 15A, but I can buy spare at same time and if there's a need for higher later on, I'll have it.
[03:12:31] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: you talk a wood planer?
[03:12:36] <JymmmEMC> talking
[03:12:41] <jmkasunich> no, metal
[03:12:54] <JymmmEMC> whoa
[03:13:13] <JymmmEMC> when would you use that?
[03:13:11] <ds2> oh direct import
[03:13:14] <jmkasunich> metal planer is totally different than a wood planer
[03:13:26] <jmkasunich> the work moves in a straight line, and the tool is stationary
[03:13:34] <jmkasunich> it for making long straight things
[03:13:36] <JymmmEMC> ds2: yeah, brand new and w/ LED
[03:13:47] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: for making things straight?
[03:13:53] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:14:02] <ds2> planes makes things flat
[03:14:10] <JymmmEMC> jmkasunich: what stock doens't coem straight?
[03:14:25] <jmkasunich> suppose you need a long straight dovetail
[03:14:30] <ds2> also good for cutting keyways, channels, etc
[03:14:33] <jmkasunich> besides, ALL stock comes crooked
[03:14:40] <jmkasunich> JymmmEMC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzsQnKJGYtk
[03:15:22] <JymmmEMC> Shit... I could use that RIGHT NOW!
[03:15:26] <jmkasunich> heh
[03:15:38] <jmkasunich> beats the heck out of filing, eh?
[03:15:57] <JymmmEMC> It's not even the filing itself, it's the keeping everything flat part
[03:16:30] <JymmmEMC> Now I have -------------------\____
[03:16:43] <JymmmEMC> better than it was, but...
[03:17:16] <JymmmEMC> is it scraping?
[03:17:25] <jmkasunich> its cutting
[03:17:52] <JymmmEMC> there's some kind of spindle I cna't see?
[03:17:52] <jmkasunich> the tool is almost exactly the same as a lathe tool
[03:18:08] <jmkasunich> but instead of spinning the work, it just moves it straight under the tool
[03:18:14] <jmkasunich> no spindle at all
[03:18:23] <ds2> there is no spindle!
[03:18:29] <jmkasunich> each pass of the table makes a single cut 20 feet (or whatever) long
[03:18:30] <JymmmEMC> Ok, so the stock is being drawn across the tool?
[03:18:36] <jmkasunich> yes
[03:18:39] <ds2> it is sort of like a chisel in woodworking
[03:18:41] <jmkasunich> that long bar is the part they are making
[03:18:57] <JymmmEMC> sorry, that's what I meant by scraping... the tool is scraping across th material
[03:19:01] <dmessier> yeah lathe lookin chip... spindle feed combo...maybe were hi-speed milln started
[03:19:47] <dmessier> just not rotary
[03:19:46] <JymmmEMC> Hmmm, I wonder if a mini version of that could be made
[03:19:55] <ds2> unlike woodworking scrapers, this removes a lot of stock
[03:19:59] <ds2> JymmmEMC: that's a shaper
[03:20:03] <dmessier> need lots of HP
[03:20:24] <jmkasunich> the diff between a planer and a shaper: on the planer the work moves, on the shaper a ram with the tool on it moves
[03:20:30] <jmkasunich> same kind of cut tho
[03:20:37] <dmessier> si
[03:20:50] <jmkasunich> shapers are used where the travel is shorter
[03:21:20] <jmkasunich> the biggest shapers are probably 30-36" stroke
[03:21:26] <jmkasunich> anything bigger they use a planer
[03:22:11] <jmkasunich> it would be impossible to make a 20 foot long ram that was even remotely rigid
[03:22:21] <JymmmEMC> that video (shaper?) looked mroe than 36"
[03:22:24] <JymmmEMC> stroke
[03:22:27] <jmkasunich> but a 20 foot long table can be supported along its full length
[03:22:33] <jmkasunich> the video is a planer
[03:22:37] <jmkasunich> table moving = planer
[03:22:40] <JymmmEMC> ds2: lied to me
[03:22:55] <JymmmEMC> 20:20:02) ds2: JymmmEMC: that's a shaper
[03:23:05] <Chris_sub_1> Hi all. I just updated my M5I20 servo machine to 2.1.7. Do I need to update anything in my existing config files to run the new release?
[03:23:06] <ds2> a smaller version of a planer is a shaper
[03:23:09] <JymmmEMC> both do the same thing?
[03:23:20] <ds2> same principle, just different things move
[03:23:41] <ds2> you were asking about a mini version
[03:23:44] <jmkasunich> shaper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZYe-b-iGb0
[03:24:16] <JymmmEMC> It would seem that a planer would be more rigid
[03:24:42] <jmkasunich> heh, the shaper in the video is running backwards
[03:25:15] <jmkasunich> cute little planer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCnCKDqAiIo
[03:25:43] <jmkasunich> those two vids perfectly demonstrate the diff between planer and shaper
[03:26:51] <JymmmEMC> both do the same thing?
[03:27:18] <JymmmEMC> both used for the same purpose?
[03:27:21] <jmkasunich> yeah, both make the same kind of cuts
[03:28:30] <JymmmEMC> that shaper is a monster
[03:28:37] <jmkasunich> the 20" one?
[03:28:42] <JymmmEMC> yeah
[03:28:50] <dmessier> both are soon to be illegal in NA... unless guarded
[03:29:09] <jmkasunich> how bout this one for illegal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v67OCpCayQw
[03:29:28] <jmkasunich> overhead drive with mechanical reversing - you can see the belts shifting as it reverses
[03:32:04] <dmessier> i walked into 1 shop about 1981 and the were still running from 1 50 hp motor in the back and overhead flat belts.... " i tucked my hair up under my hat and i went into ask him WHY??
[03:33:11] <dmessier> he said you look like a fine outstanding young man... i think you'lll do"... and i ran..
[03:33:17] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[03:34:15] <dmessier> i had only ever seen black and white pictures of that and there it was.... WORKIN'
[03:35:11] <JymmmEMC> If it aint broke...
[03:35:17] <Chris_sub_1> I want to build a lineshaft system for my shop powered by my kids running inside a big wheel.
[03:35:57] <dmessier> cool... pics???
[03:36:18] <ds2> NA?
[03:36:29] <JymmmEMC> North America
[03:36:49] <ds2> http://www.jamesriser.com/Machinery/AtlasShaper/AtlasShaper.html
[03:36:57] <ds2> Wouldn't mind having one of those
[03:37:11] <dmessier> i like old and simple.. for alot of modern stuff... its hard tojustify a 5 axis machine when all i want is 6 new 4 axis machines
[03:38:28] <Chris_sub_1> Any help with my update question?
[03:38:35] <dmessier> them machines had tool grinders hooked to the side right??? until he retired.. and the machine became a surface plate
[03:38:46] <jmkasunich> Chris_sub_1: what question is that?
[03:39:03] <JymmmEMC> mesa question he had
[03:39:12] <Chris_sub_1> I just updated my M5I20 servo machine to 2.1.7. Do I need to update anything in my existing config files to run the new release?
[03:39:38] <dmessier> cycle start and hide
[03:39:59] <JymmmEMC> hand on estop
[03:40:04] <jmkasunich> I don't think so, except maybe for parameter 5220 in the var file
[03:40:25] <jmkasunich> see the "parameter out of range" thread on the users list
[03:40:39] <dmessier> if any smoke starts coming out of internal components... its too late... your facked
[03:41:18] <jmkasunich> ds2: http://cgi.ebay.com/Logan-ES-8-Metal-Cutting-Shaper_W0QQitemZ200134083595QQihZ010QQcategoryZ104244QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[03:41:32] <jmkasunich> theres also an atlas, but its missing parts
[03:42:19] <ds2> $950!?!
[03:42:24] <jmkasunich> oh, another atlas, thats not missing parts: http://cgi.ebay.com/NICE-ATLAS-7-HEAVY-DUTY-METAL-SHAPER-7B_W0QQitemZ130139907333QQihZ003QQcategoryZ12584QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[03:42:33] <dmessier> i could dance that little girle around a room... ; )
[03:43:41] <ds2> Ohhhh these guys
[03:44:03] <ds2> good place to visit if you are in SoCal
[03:44:14] <dmessier> beutifull old tool... i wish i had room for it... ; )====
[03:44:35] <jmkasunich> the atlas is only 13" x 35" inches
[03:44:41] <jmkasunich> I'm sure you could find room
[03:45:03] <dmessier> but i would have to tell HER... the SHE thing...
[03:45:11] <jmkasunich> or do you need a dance floor
[03:45:44] <dmessier> we had bigger ones that thumped
[03:45:53] <cradek> jmkasunich: no that's in trunk
[03:46:00] <dmessier> that justlooks like a finisher..
[03:46:09] <jmkasunich> cradek: oops
[03:46:40] <jmkasunich> Chris_sub_1: going from 2.1.6 to 2.1.7 should be seamless
[03:46:42] <dmessier> the body is were.... in the trunk???
[03:46:55] <cradek> Chris_sub_1: the only thing you might need to change is the index hookups for your mesa card in the HAL file. Because now it works and the names of the hookups are standard
[03:47:46] <jmkasunich> IF you want to either home to index pulses, do threading (lathe) or rigid tapping
[03:48:17] <cradek> no rigid tapping in emc2.1
[03:48:24] <jmkasunich> that is stuff that probably didn't work right in 2.1.6, but everything that worked in 2.1.6 should work in 2.1.7
[03:48:28] <jmkasunich> oops again
[03:48:31] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich shuts up
[03:49:44] <cradek> my chevy may have worked for the last time yesterday - today when I tried to start it, it bent three pushrods for some reason
[03:49:52] <jmkasunich> ouch!
[03:49:52] <Chris_sub_1> I was just looking at the sample m5i20_motion.hal versus mine and noticed some differences. I'll go stare at the new one...
[03:50:27] <jmkasunich> cradek: no clue why?
[03:50:29] <cradek> it ran great last night - I ran a bunch of errands - today not so much
[03:50:33] <cradek> no, not really
[03:51:22] <jmkasunich> thats a shame
[03:51:24] <cradek> it has no timing chain/belt, so I don't think it could have crashed the valves into the pistons (I'm not even sure it's an interference engine)
[03:51:56] <jmkasunich> timing gears, right?
[03:52:10] <cradek> yes pretty sure crank and camshaft are directly geared together
[03:52:23] <jmkasunich> and probably keyed onto the shafts - you'd need to shear a key to get it out of time
[03:52:25] <dmessier> chevy on a dose of antifreeze..
[03:52:39] <cradek> it even still runs a bit (3 cyls), so I suspect the valve timing is ok
[03:53:05] <dmessier> head gasket... or head.. DONT run it
[03:53:16] <jmkasunich> how do you know the rods are bent? pulled rockers and rods?
[03:53:28] <alex__> alex__ is now known as TheBall
[03:53:31] <cradek> the three rods were so bent I could pull them right out with the rockers in place
[03:53:39] <jmkasunich> ugly
[03:53:58] <jmkasunich> intakes or exhaust, or a mix?
[03:54:01] <cradek> the rest seem fine
[03:54:15] <dmessier> wierd for a chevy...
[03:54:16] <cradek> all 3 the same, I don't know which they are
[03:54:33] <dmessier> bad back fire...
[03:54:34] <jmkasunich> dmessier: this is a 50something chevy, for whatever thats worth
[03:54:46] <dmessier> i have a 54
[03:54:49] <cradek> back 3 cyls
[03:55:04] <cradek> dmessier: is yours 216 or 235?
[03:55:18] <dmessier> chk if you split the cam... straight 6??
[03:55:33] <cradek> yes
[03:55:38] <cradek> split?
[03:55:43] <dmessier> are all lifters moving??
[03:55:52] <jmkasunich> back half of the camshaft separated from the front?
[03:55:53] <dmessier> sheared... in 2 pcs
[03:56:07] <cradek> all the remaining valves are opening and closing - can't be sure of the timing
[03:56:18] <jmkasunich> that would seem hard to do, or is it a two piece shaft?
[03:56:32] <jmkasunich> I guess if the other valves in those cylinders are working its not a split shaft
[03:56:33] <dmessier> no.. they break..
[03:56:46] <dmessier> stress cracks
[03:56:54] <cradek> dmessier: it is still turning, for whatever that's worth
[03:57:17] <jmkasunich> can you move the 3 rockers with a screwdriver or small pry? or are they seized?
[03:57:18] <dmessier> my 235 ran with no oil...
[03:57:53] <cradek> jmkasunich: I have not tried yet, I see HF has a $10 valve spring compressor - would be nice to see if the valves are free
[03:57:57] <dmessier> had 135000 miles on clock when pulled
[03:58:34] <dmessier> yaeh.. if they are stuck.. your rod just hammered into them
[03:59:01] <jmkasunich> seems odd that three would sieze up at once tho
[03:59:07] <cradek> I know it didn't overheat. Not sure what else would stick three of them at once
[03:59:08] <cradek> yeah
[03:59:51] <cradek> wish if I knew intake or exhaust
[03:59:51] <dmessier> cam... is only other thing tied to them
[04:00:06] <dmessier> big or little??
[04:00:27] <dmessier> look at the hump in the head
[04:00:28] <cradek> I have the book that says which are which, I just don't remember which three they were :-)
[04:00:44] <cradek> too late to get dirty again to find out
[04:00:49] <dmessier> oh.. what vehickle??
[04:00:51] <jmkasunich> you can probably figure it out by lookin at the manifolds
[04:01:03] <dmessier> true
[04:01:05] <cradek> jmkasunich: it wasn't obvious to me...
[04:01:31] <dmessier> intake run UP exhaust run DOWN
[04:01:47] <cradek> the intake and exhaust weave amongst each other in a strange way
[04:01:53] <dmessier> about 2" in between
[04:02:04] <cradek> there aren't even 6 of each port
[04:02:07] <jmkasunich> not a simple IOIOIOIOIOIO thing, eh
[04:02:13] <cradek> nope
[04:02:50] <dmessier> no 3 into1...LOL
[04:03:08] <cradek> I was sure it was a head gasket because compression 90, 90, 95, 40, 0, 80
[04:03:22] <SWPadnos> sounds like 5 is bad
[04:03:26] <dmessier> bent valve
[04:03:31] <cradek> it must be intake valves if the compression is low
[04:03:36] <dmessier> or valves
[04:03:35] <cradek> SWPadnos: thanks!
[04:03:39] <cradek> haha
[04:03:43] <jmkasunich> stuck open valve will give you zero
[04:03:44] <Chris_sub_1> Running now (yay!). Were changes made to any of the servo motion code or m5i20 firmware for 2.1.7, or just index-related stuff? I seem not to be tuned properly jogging in X, and I thought I had that working.
[04:03:44] <jmkasunich> either valve
[04:03:58] <cradek> none are stuck open
[04:03:58] <SWPadnos> any time. (that's the limit of my engine troubleshooting knowledge :) )
[04:04:07] <dmessier> open hole.. cam.. again
[04:04:08] <cradek> but a stuck closed intake might also give 0
[04:04:29] <dmessier> have you had the valve coversoff
[04:04:44] <jmkasunich> must have, he removed the bent rods
[04:04:45] <cradek> Chris_sub_1: only the index was fixed
[04:04:51] <dmessier> anything looked like it might have dropped??
[04:05:01] <dmessier> tru
[04:05:04] <cradek> what do you mean dropped?
[04:05:22] <cradek> I only took the top cover off, not the side
[04:05:30] <cradek> the side is a huge pain
[04:05:44] <dmessier> characteristically different from the rest... broke v spring???
[04:06:00] <cradek> nope the springs all look fine
[04:06:54] <dmessier> why did it BLOW the rods??
[04:07:28] <dmessier> pound on the rockers.. without rods.. valve moves??
[04:07:50] <cradek> yeah I need to see if the valves are free
[04:07:58] <cradek> it seems like they MUST be stuck (or they WERE stuck)
[04:08:13] <dmessier> did this sit for some period???
[04:08:28] <jmkasunich> was running last night
[04:08:34] <cradek> drove it all around yesterday
[04:08:38] <dmessier> no before?? it puked??
[04:08:41] <cradek> it ran great
[04:08:43] <Chris_sub_1> Thanks guys. I'm off to dream about 3D contouring. Good night. :)
[04:08:52] <cradek> bye Chris_sub_1
[04:08:59] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[04:08:58] <dmessier> play safe chris
[04:09:23] <cradek> dmessier: it had been sitting for only a few weeks or months before yesterday
[04:09:36] <dmessier> thats a stovebolt chevy engine.. they DONT puke...
[04:10:10] <cradek> wonder if I had oil at the rockers
[04:10:12] <dmessier> hmmm months.. are the issue.... you siesed a few valves im almost positive
[04:10:35] <dmessier> and dry sumped her
[04:10:36] <cradek> but it ran great yesterday - they would have had to seize last night after I parked it
[04:10:50] <dmessier> really..
[04:11:26] <dmessier> did it kick back when you shut it off at all
[04:11:32] <cradek> nope
[04:11:55] <cradek> I rebuilt the carb yesterday - it was running as good as ever
[04:12:06] <dmessier> wierd... haave you got any rods??
[04:12:18] <cradek> yes, 3, but they're a little bent :-)
[04:12:36] <dmessier> id prefer straight ones
[04:12:46] <cradek> me too, I don't have any of those
[04:12:47] <jmkasunich> what kind of lifters does it have?
[04:12:58] <cradek> they are not hydraulic - maybe just solid
[04:13:01] <dmessier> i have 12... come pick em up
[04:13:05] <jmkasunich> could they have frozen in a really "tall" configuration?
[04:13:28] <cradek> dmessier: where?
[04:13:34] <dmessier> early hydraulic lifters
[04:13:39] <dmessier> toronto
[04:13:56] <cradek> no these are not hydraulic - this is the 216 not the 235 powerglide
[04:14:11] <cradek> I'm not sure what they look like though
[04:14:51] <cradek> I'm sure I could get some from a junkyard 50 miles from here, there are a lot of these cars there
[04:15:00] <dmessier> hmmm... you have found as big a dog as mine
[04:15:10] <cradek> ?
[04:15:20] <dmessier> what does it come from??
[04:15:35] <cradek> I don't understand
[04:16:16] <dmessier> i have a 54 pickup... with 53 running gear and 54 1/2 trim...
[04:16:23] <dmessier> what car??
[04:16:49] <cradek> the 52 deluxe sedan
[04:17:07] <dmessier> cool..
[04:17:15] <cradek> was
[04:17:17] <dmessier> gotta fly...
[04:17:21] <cradek> goodnight
[04:17:26] <dmessier> napp time workin am
[04:22:57] <cradek> I better go too - thanks guys for letting me bounce ideas around
[04:27:18] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[04:27:33] <jmkasunich> sorry to hear about the engine, hope its not too bad
[08:30:20] <archivist> cradek grotty oil or grott in the oil I had a regular problem with landrover valves sticking in the guides for a while
[08:32:03] <archivist> dries up and sticks to the shaft/guide and jams it (worse if the one part is waisted due to wear)
[10:03:36] <toastydeath> ff
[10:16:50] <IceGuest_7> hello
[10:16:56] <IceGuest_7> IceGuest_7 is now known as mcfloppy123
[10:17:02] <mcfloppy123> http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bildschirmfoto2cc1.png
[10:17:08] <mcfloppy123> this is my actual try
[10:18:13] <mcfloppy123> why is the pwmgen value so anxious?
[10:42:22] <mcfloppy123> nobody in here?
[10:47:19] <Dallur> there are some here
[10:47:24] <Dallur> but I'm afraid I can't help you with your problem
[10:48:17] <archivist> depends on time of day/at work etc
[10:55:31] <mcfloppy123> okay
[10:55:34] <mcfloppy123> ;)
[10:55:36] <mcfloppy123> thank you
[12:54:03] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[12:56:19] <archivist> skunkwork, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/6928189.stm one rusty member in first pic
[12:58:21] <skunkwork> yah - they have been leaning towards that.. It was deemed to have an issue as early as 94 or something like that.
[12:59:14] <archivist> uk gov has announced bridge checks as well now
[12:59:47] <skunkwork> wow
[13:00:07] <skunkwork> I think we are checking bridges across the us now.
[13:00:24] <archivist> dont think we have any that exact style
[13:01:39] <SWPadnos> it's all due to SUVs, I tell you
[13:02:28] <archivist> Chelsea tractors
[13:03:29] <skunkwork> SUVs? its the damn bikers/joggers under the bridge.
[13:03:58] <skunkwork> they all got in step for a bit.
[13:04:02] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:04:53] <archivist> and the joggers blame the trucks
[13:04:57] <skunkwork> I showed my wife the tocoma.. she had never seen that before
[13:05:29] <SWPadnos> yeah - that's a very cool video. not a cool event, mind you :)
[13:05:35] <skunkwork> archivist: ever seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mclp9QmCGs
[13:05:41] <archivist> interesting how it went straight down on the security video
[13:06:01] <skunkwork> only a dog died during the tocoma colapse
[13:06:22] <SWPadnos> they had some significant warning on the Tacoma Narrows bridge
[13:06:37] <SWPadnos> the wobbling/waaving would have told me to get the hell off the bridge in a hurry
[13:06:43] <SWPadnos> weaving
[13:06:51] <skunkwork> wife could not believe they didn't think of the wind
[13:06:59] <archivist> * archivist copies to me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mclp9QmCGs
[13:07:11] <skunkwork> ;)
[13:07:28] <SWPadnos> I could not believe that a bridge constructed of steel beams 10 feet across could wiggle like that
[13:07:42] <skunkwork> and the concrete
[13:07:49] <SWPadnos> yah
[13:11:55] <archivist> we had an open univesity program on the Tacoma and its problem some years ago
[13:14:28] <archivist> also had some good programs on the stone arch and how it stays up
[13:16:24] <archivist> I want to see recent pics of the bridge before failure
[13:42:43] <skunkwork> we have one of these - speaking of planers.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZYe-b-iGb0
[13:43:24] <skunkwork> It isn't cincinnati
[13:43:32] <skunkwork> about that size though
[13:44:50] <skunkwork> funny - the last comment is exactly what I thought when I saw it running
[13:46:01] <archivist_win> the boss here has a lathe wired backwards as well
[13:47:00] <archivist> two reverse speeds and one forwards
[13:50:20] <skunkwork> whatever works :)
[14:00:32] <jepler> is 26 pins the floppy drive connector?
[14:01:18] <jepler> no, I see that's 34 pins
[14:45:25] <SWPadnos> 26 is usually a parallel port ribbon cable
[14:46:24] <jepler> ah right
[14:55:00] <Dallur> Anyone want a plasma welder for $100 ? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180144756777&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=008
[14:59:20] <danielbr> hello, i am using limit3 and i need change speed with a pyvcp widget, velocity is a parameter, any idea
[14:59:43] <danielbr> the same problem that dallur have with oneshot
[15:00:54] <Dallur> danielbr: are you trying to change spindle speed with a slider widget ?
[15:00:59] <jepler> change it to be a pin instead. Change "param rw" to "pin in" for each one you want to set from pyvcp
[15:01:10] <jepler> in src/hal/components/limit3.comp
[15:01:21] <jepler> no other source code change should be necessary
[15:01:47] <danielbr> thanks jepler i will try that tip
[15:03:57] <danielbr> jepler i am thinking about make one "new" interface using glade this is a AXIS clone or GAXIS. But i need your help with pyvcp part
[15:04:20] <danielbr> pygtk
[15:07:45] <danielbr> this is one first project for a silkscreen control using glade and emc http://imagebin.org/9714
[15:14:44] <skunkwork> silkscreen?
[15:15:13] <danielbr> Jepler, that worked, thanks
[15:16:59] <bill2or3> pretty.
[15:24:18] <danielbr> dallur: i forgot your question_ this limit3 change is for control the belt velocity in this silkscreen printer
[15:25:30] <danielbr> this is a retrofit
[15:30:18] <Dallur> danielbr: ahh ok
[15:37:17] <danielbr> i will like to use that interface but i dont know yet how handle the NML part, using pygtk
[15:37:34] <danielbr> the second option is axis and pyvcp
[15:38:03] <jepler> I wonder what limit3 does if it is going at say 1/second and you lower the maximum velocity to .5/second.
[15:39:25] <danielbr> this works reducing de float output at that rate
[15:41:07] <danielbr> and the float you can use with a stepgen
[15:42:39] <danielbr> who wrote that comp?
[15:44:07] <jepler> probably jmkasunich wrote limit3
[15:45:55] <danielbr> how many hours do you think is necessary for link that interface with emc, I can pay for it
[15:48:52] <jepler> I'm not interested in taking on that work right now. I'm also not good at estimating time for projects.
[15:49:07] <danielbr> ok
[15:49:16] <SWPadnos> danielbr, that looks suspiciously like a mac UI
[15:49:37] <jepler> assuming someone already has knowledge of nml and hal, for the items that are trivial (1 button/slider/etc corresponds to one HAL pin or one NML message) it should be very quick -- more than one item per hour
[15:50:04] <jepler> but some of the items are probably more complicated than that
[15:50:05] <danielbr> yes but is a gtk interface
[15:50:45] <SWPadnos> interesting - he machine takes a part out of the bin, screens it, then puts it in the output bin?
[15:50:49] <SWPadnos> s/he/the/
[15:51:13] <SWPadnos> or is it silkscreening the bins? :)
[15:51:14] <danielbr> yes like this
[15:51:24] <danielbr> this is foe glass
[15:51:27] <danielbr> for
[15:52:25] <SWPadnos> as jepler said (sort of), it's very hard to estimate how long something will take to complete
[15:52:27] <danielbr> the belt move the glass until the "home" point and print
[15:53:33] <danielbr> i will try study python and NML
[15:53:39] <SWPadnos> if all you're asking for is adding HAL pins to the various widgets, then that could be estimated reasonably quickly. if you're talking about any machine logic, then it gets harder since you start needing to consider how EMC does things vs. how you want that UI to work
[15:54:13] <danielbr> the hal part is ready or almost
[15:54:32] <SWPadnos> ok - the "making it work how you want" part is the hardest to estimate :)
[15:54:37] <danielbr> i need link signal with emc commands and status
[15:54:45] <SWPadnos> "making buttons do things in HAL" is easier :)
[15:55:24] <danielbr> and read status from emc and hal?
[16:01:20] <SWPadnos> as jepler pointed out, simply connecting widgets to HAL is pretty easy. connecting them to "EMC" (via NML) is a bit harder, but not too hard if you know what you're doing.
[16:02:30] <SWPadnos> and that goes in both directions - it's not too much harder to make a widget that reads from HAL/EMC and displays data than it is to make one that sends data to HAL/EMC when the user manipulates it
[16:07:59] <danielbr> SWPadnos, sorry a phone call
[16:09:11] <danielbr> can i send one email to you with project details?
[16:10:59] <SWPadnos> you can, but I'm not the ideal person to do this for you right now. I've got a lot of business lined up for the next few months
[16:12:53] <danielbr> ok, so i will study try understand how this work and for now use what i know: axis and pyvcp
[18:17:51] <jepler> what chip company's logo looks like "integral dt"?
[18:18:57] <archivist> hmm, I should know this, part no?
[18:19:34] <jepler> it says "(integral) dt 7203 " "L35J" "T9742P"
[18:19:34] <archivist> data technology?
[18:20:08] <SWPadnos> Integrated Device Technology - IDT ?
[18:20:32] <jepler> yeah, "Integrated Device Technology, Inc."
[18:20:41] <jepler> this is a useful list: http://www.engineering.uiowa.edu/~eshop/mflogo.dir/ic-id.html
[18:20:55] <SWPadnos> yep - was just looking for that :)
[18:21:18] <jepler> whatever it is, it's probably discontinued, it's an ISA-bus card
[18:21:29] <archivist> CMOS ASYNCHRONOUS FIFO
[18:21:36] <jepler> probably: 2K x 9 AsyncFIFO, 5.0V
[18:21:47] <SWPadnos> up to 512 kb
[18:22:05] <archivist> plenty pop up on a google search
[18:22:29] <SWPadnos> jepler, did you find the datasheet?
[18:22:37] <archivist> with part remainder companies
[18:23:03] <jepler> SWPadnos: yes I found one on idt's websit
[18:23:04] <jepler> e
[18:24:02] <SWPadnos> ok. low power, 35 ns, PLCC, <unknown> manufactured in September of '97
[18:24:30] <fenn> what's 42p?
[18:24:44] <SWPadnos> it's T "9742" p
[18:24:54] <SWPadnos> 9742 is week 47 of 1997
[18:24:59] <fenn> ok
[18:25:04] <cradek> or week 42 even
[18:25:16] <SWPadnos> err - yeah, that
[18:26:45] <jepler> if you're having fun finding chip info for me, you can do one more. TI MP9914FNL / 93ADDVW / WB
[18:27:05] <SWPadnos> well - I'm not, really :)
[18:27:09] <archivist> I remember the 9914
[18:27:47] <jepler> ah maybe it's a purpose-built chip for IEEE-488
[18:27:52] <archivist> Texas Instruments
[18:27:55] <SWPadnos> could be
[18:28:02] <archivist> yup
[18:28:16] <archivist> I have one at home somewhere
[18:29:47] <archivist> looking at the IEEE488 interface card in the HP?
[18:30:26] <jepler> I ebayed an ISA-bus IEEE-488 card .. just looking at the chips
[18:30:32] <archivist> ah ok
[18:31:05] <jepler> I wondered if it might turn out to be a more interesting card than it first looked, because I noticed that the biggest chip is a XILINX and that the linux drivers say they require a firmware to be uploaded before use
[18:31:29] <SWPadnos> it's possible that it's an IEEE488 debugging card
[18:32:12] <archivist> some were programmed like that
[18:33:48] <archivist> XILINX chip may be one that requires setting up each time
[18:34:21] <archivist> cheaper for the card mfr to do it in the pc software
[18:34:23] <jepler> yeah
[18:34:25] <jepler> easier updates, etc
[18:35:22] <jepler> I sure like that about the 5i20 and pluto boards in emc (particularly since it's all GPL software too)
[18:38:40] <SWPadnos> especially with the Mesa, since you don't need Windows/wine to run the vendor tools
[18:39:29] <jepler> yeah, agreed
[18:39:59] <jepler> I would have chosen a xilinx board in a heartbeat for that very reason, but I didn't find one with those characteristics and price-point when I was looking
[18:40:10] <jepler> I should have waited another year for this new one mesa is coming out with, I guess
[18:40:15] <SWPadnos> nope - the pluto was the best bet at the time
[18:40:23] <SWPadnos> probably not :)
[18:40:52] <SWPadnos> I think you've done a great job showhorning functionality into the pluto, and all the experience you got will certainly help when you get a 7i43 :)
[18:40:58] <SWPadnos> shoehorning
[18:41:08] <SWPadnos> fitting
[18:41:34] <SWPadnos> incidentally, what did you pay for the GPIB card?
[18:42:35] <SWPadnos> man - 92 degrees, and now we get thunder to go along with it
[18:43:20] <Skullworks-PGAB> * Skullworks-PGAB wants some thunder, and the natural swamp cooler action to follow...
[18:46:05] <SWPadnos> thunder without rain at the moment ...
[18:46:13] <jepler> SWPadnos: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280138683239
[18:46:52] <SWPadnos> do you need ISA, or was that just a good deal?
[18:47:09] <jepler> I didn't find any PCI or USB interfaces that were as cheap
[18:47:43] <SWPadnos> ok. the reason I ask is that there are several revisions of GPIB, and the earlier ones were really slow - like parallel port slow
[18:48:14] <jepler> yeah I have no idea how fast or slow this card is
[18:48:17] <SWPadnos> the one to get is IEEE488.2, which is much faster - several megabytes/sec instead of a couple of hundred K
[18:48:29] <SWPadnos> but it only helps if the instruments support faster transfer ...
[18:48:42] <skunkwork> jepler: very nice scope
[18:49:01] <jepler> I doubt the scope I bought is a fast device
[18:49:11] <archivist> PCI 488 cards are a bit cost++
[18:49:13] <SWPadnos> it may actually be, but I don't know either
[18:49:17] <jepler> at most I'll transfer a few waveforms per session, so it doesn't matter much
[18:49:22] <SWPadnos> $100-up on ebay
[18:50:02] <jepler> oh god, time to go spend the rest of my afternoon in a meeting
[18:50:13] <archivist> I allways get beat when I try to get one
[18:50:31] <archivist> have a nice sleep
[18:51:49] <jepler> there are DIY microcontroller-based '488 interfaces out there, I am tempted to try one or write my own
[18:52:11] <jepler> but if this isa board works and the computer I put it in keeps booting I probably won't get around to it
[18:52:15] <archivist> I fancy doing a usb to 488
[18:52:53] <skunkwork> the steppers on the router are 1.5a
[18:53:39] <skunkwork> I am going to setup an axis with the oem650 and see how fast I can accellerate and what the top speed would be.
[18:54:11] <fenn> is oem650 the drives that are on your engraver?
[18:54:17] <jepler> archivist: one of the ones pointed out to me is FTDI usb-serial + AVR -- the plans & source are no-cost http://lpvo.fe.uni-lj.si/gpib/
[18:54:20] <skunkwork> I got some powersupplys with the oem650s that where 75v 3a - never thought I would use them
[18:54:45] <skunkwork> fenn: the drive that came with it was proprietary - and it smoked..
[18:54:49] <archivist> jepler Ill have a look
[18:55:17] <skunkwork> fenn: the oem650s are 7.5a max microstepping drives.
[18:55:29] <skunkwork> a bit overkill but the price was right.
[18:56:32] <jepler> really must get to my meeting. bye guys.
[18:57:45] <skunkwork> fenn: I think you saw this.. http://www.electronicsam.com/images/engraver/drive.JPG
[18:58:20] <fenn> yep
[18:58:20] <skunkwork> I need to continuity check the wiring for the z axis - could be that maybe something got shorted out.
[18:59:04] <skunkwork> I just have not had a real chance to work on it. I wirebrushed the circuit board.. it is going to need some reconstruction. a few missing traces
[18:59:27] <fenn> you brushed them off!
[18:59:42] <skunkwork> * skunkwork blushes
[19:00:17] <skunkwork> you can see in the picture - the smoke on the back side of the circuit board
[19:01:06] <fenn> do the other drives still work?
[19:02:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> I had a 22.5 amp @ 400V line short to a PCB in our laser powersupply - burned right thru the FR4 a hole the size of a penny
[19:03:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> I was able to make jumpers around the hole and replace the fried components - its still working
[19:07:43] <archivist> that was a regular repair in 70's TV's
[19:08:05] <skunkwork> fenn: yes
[19:09:41] <skunkwork> I think the card was 3 axis + spindle control.
[19:10:18] <floppy1234> re
[19:10:23] <floppy1234> some german here?
[19:14:27] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is
[19:14:33] <alex_joni> hallo
[19:15:09] <skunkwork> * skunkwork thinks alex_joni is AI
[19:15:18] <alex_joni> skunkwork: I just might be
[19:15:36] <alex_joni> although I wouldn't know that.. would I?
[19:21:18] <skunkwork> or would you?? hmmmm
[19:22:18] <alex_joni> tough one
[19:27:12] <Skullworks-PGAB> "I think, therefore I am..."
[19:27:51] <alex_joni> does that work for AI?
[19:28:03] <Skullworks-PGAB> never ask one
[19:28:16] <alex_joni> make it ask itself
[19:30:30] <archivist> its interesting how many people talk to my bot in #mysql
[19:30:36] <Skullworks-PGAB> Never try to reason with an Atomic Weapon - (DarkStar)
[19:31:58] <alex_joni> archivist: what kind of bot?
[19:32:36] <archivist> answers !man question etc its a php bot with a database backend
[19:33:22] <archivist> but it also reads without ! and responds directly
[19:33:28] <alex_joni> does it dance?
[19:33:32] <archivist> no
[19:33:35] <alex_joni> oh
[19:33:37] <alex_joni> :/
[19:34:09] <archivist> it has a few jokes up its sleeve
[19:34:25] <archivist> some copied from the #apache bot
[19:41:59] <skunkwork> what is your bots name?
[19:42:09] <skunkwork> can it join more than one irc channel?
[19:42:36] <archivist> yes
[19:43:01] <archivist> to play with it its in #php-support
[19:43:03] <SWPadnos> /ban archivist_bot :)
[19:44:11] <danielbr> Hi, other question, it seems G38.2 only work with xyz, what can i do if i need probe with a axis A or U?
[19:46:07] <cradek> I'm looking at cvs trunk: it appears that it will work for ABC, but not UVW because of an oversight
[19:46:19] <cradek> does it not work to probe axis A for you?
[19:47:16] <danielbr> not working with A
[19:48:02] <cradek> what does it do?
[19:48:29] <cradek> what emc version?
[19:49:09] <danielbr> emc2.1-branch
[19:49:24] <cradek> first of all there is no U axis in emc2.1
[19:49:38] <danielbr> yes
[19:49:46] <danielbr> i tried U in trunk
[19:50:07] <cradek> like I said U does not work in trunk, but I'll fix it
[19:50:11] <cradek> does A work in trunk?
[19:50:30] <danielbr> i only tested in 2.1
[19:52:20] <danielbr> in 2.1 A axis prompt probe finished without tripping immediately
[19:52:27] <danielbr> i will try trunk
[19:55:44] <danielbr> the same occur in trunk with A axis
[19:55:58] <cradek> ok let me look into it
[20:01:04] <robin_sz> meep?
[20:10:03] <jepler> does anyone here have trouble loading the following URL? http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/src/rtapi/rtai_rtapi.c.diff?r1=1.34;r2=1.35
[20:10:17] <cradek> no
[20:10:25] <jepler> or, to put it another way, who can load this URL just fine?
[20:11:03] <archivist> no prob
[20:11:13] <danielbr> no prob here
[20:11:20] <cradek> 15:11:09 (70.84 MB/s) - `rtai_rtapi.c.diff?r1=1.34;r2=1.35' saved [1040]
[20:11:26] <cradek> wget works too
[20:12:12] <alex_joni> same here
[20:12:30] <archivist> * archivist checked dns and thats ok
[20:13:09] <awallin> works here too
[20:13:26] <skunkwork> works here
[20:15:33] <jepler> thanks all
[20:15:51] <SWPadnos> I had no problem, and I'm about to check the compile on my dapper+2.6.20 system
[20:16:09] <cradek> looks like a one line backport fix might be needed
[20:16:23] <cradek> == "tits up" apparently :-)
[20:16:29] <jepler> SWPadnos: that's great. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if there was more than one problem, but if you're willing to troubleshoot I'm sure it's easy to solve
[20:16:50] <cradek> so true
[20:16:50] <SWPadnos> I can try, but I'm sure it isn't as easy for me, since I don't know shit about the build system :)
[20:17:20] <cradek> looks like you might have to backport a few kernel-specific thingies in rtapi
[20:17:49] <SWPadnos> then I'll probably stop after seeing it not compile. I can probably work on it a little next week though, when I'm on the plane
[20:18:06] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: ever heard of Kenko?
[20:18:21] <SWPadnos> nope
[20:20:29] <jepler> they make some camera optics
[20:22:02] <alex_joni> yeah, saw some teleconverters from them
[20:28:03] <robin_sz> kenko?
[20:28:14] <robin_sz> the famous maker of instant coffee?
[20:29:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> isn't all coffee instant - you drink alot, and it goes thru you an instant later.
[20:29:47] <awallin> kenko = cheap(copied?) slr gear. I have some kenko extension tubes
[20:30:58] <alex_joni> awallin: really cheap stuff?
[20:31:07] <alex_joni> (not the price..)
[20:34:13] <robin_sz> real lenses have "schneider kreuznach" written on them
[20:34:26] <archivist> yup
[20:34:41] <archivist> 30 times zoom
[20:34:49] <robin_sz> servo controlled
[20:34:57] <alex_joni> there's a nice one from zeiss
[20:35:00] <alex_joni> f1700mm
[20:35:54] <robin_sz> the schneider lenses they fit to TV cameras can be in the 30K euro price bracket .. or more
[20:36:18] <robin_sz> schneider make the Imax projection lenses too
[20:36:34] <alex_joni> that one from zeiss is in the .5M range
[20:36:34] <archivist> robin_sz, it annoys me these days that they cant be arsed to use proper lenses and send a camera man on stage
[20:36:55] <robin_sz> archivist, blame hill street blues
[20:37:04] <robin_sz> th eadvent of wobbly-vision
[20:37:10] <archivist> hehe
[20:37:42] <robin_sz> befoere then a wobbly shot was "unuseable" now its "artisitic"
[20:38:02] <archivist> arsetistic
[20:38:05] <robin_sz> yeah
[20:38:18] <archivist> and in shot!!
[20:38:24] <robin_sz> same as those fscking awful ccd cameras on sports
[20:38:37] <robin_sz> crap LCD shutters
[20:39:27] <robin_sz> if you watch cricket, or high diving ...
[20:39:50] <robin_sz> you'll notice it in the bowlers arm ... a series of snapshots of the arm in motion
[20:40:17] <archivist> no natural blur
[20:40:22] <robin_sz> exactly
[20:40:24] <awallin> alex_joni: not sure about the real quality of kenko... probably OK if you pick the products that get nice online reviews
[20:40:36] <robin_sz> the shutter is shut for some of the frame, so informtation is lost
[20:40:46] <robin_sz> poxy inter-frame transfer CCD arrays
[20:41:21] <robin_sz> real cameras are always open, with an iris to control light
[20:41:44] <fenn> pooh pooh
[20:41:57] <fenn> i think rapatronic cameras are the neatest thing since sliced rbead
[20:42:00] <archivist> I think they turn the speed up to get the individual shots for the slowmo on the ccd types?
[20:42:13] <robin_sz> no, thats the sony super slomo stuff
[20:42:21] <alex_joni> g'night all
[20:42:23] <robin_sz> they run at a MUCH faster framrate
[20:42:58] <ds2> 30x zoom?!
[20:43:07] <archivist> yup
[20:43:22] <robin_sz> with the 2x covnertor selected
[20:43:24] <archivist> real TV camera lenses
[20:43:51] <robin_sz> LDK5s and the like, had about 30lb of glass on the front
[20:43:55] <fenn> mixing high voltage with TNT and nanoseconds - what could be more fun?
[20:44:22] <archivist> lenses on the LDK5 have two handles
[20:44:30] <ds2> is that 30x long distance zoom or macro zoom?
[20:44:40] <archivist> long
[20:44:59] <ds2> how many GDP's is it costing?
[20:45:27] <archivist> I think 15K £ in the 1970s
[20:46:29] <archivist> I think Ive heard 30k per chan and half is the lens
[20:47:02] <ds2> isn't that more its weight in gold?
[20:47:32] <archivist> but redundant now
[21:15:17] <skunkworks> woohoo - a mill bought the black walnut log
[21:15:42] <skunkworks> no one wanted it because it was from in town
[21:16:29] <skunkworks> and only one neighbor was mad that we cut the 2 trees down.
[21:16:31] <skunkworks> ;)
[21:16:40] <SWPadnos> damn. I'd have taken them :)
[21:16:56] <skunkworks> (only one was a black walnut)
[21:17:07] <SWPadnos> then I'd have taken it :)
[21:17:33] <SWPadnos> a friend and I may build a lumber mill for fun - there are some plans out there for that
[21:20:19] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSC02968.JPG
[21:21:04] <SWPadnos> I think that's slightly bigger than I would build
[21:21:43] <skunkworks> :) blades are cheap - around $80
[21:21:58] <lerneaen_hydra> skunkworks: solid or band?
[21:22:07] <SWPadnos> that's only twice what they cost for my bandsaw
[21:22:09] <SWPadnos> on ebay
[21:22:19] <SWPadnos> though those are metal cutting
[21:22:22] <skunkworks> bandsaw
[21:22:39] <skunkworks> these I think are .7 pitch
[21:22:55] <skunkworks> iirc
[21:23:03] <lerneaen_hydra> how long do wood bandsaw blades last for woods*? (*non-tropical woods with lots of sand)
[21:23:31] <skunkworks> a long time.. We sharpen them quite a few times though
[21:23:51] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, how? small grinding bits in a handheld grinder?
[21:23:55] <skunkworks> yes
[21:24:10] <skunkworks> they acutally cut better after the first sharpening :)
[21:24:27] <lerneaen_hydra> does it take a long time to sharpen?
[21:24:36] <lerneaen_hydra> it's not like theres a lack of teeth
[21:24:41] <skunkworks> it has been a while - maybe 30-60 minutes
[21:25:32] <skunkworks> the biggest problem is pushing the blade too hard.. you can cup them and then they are junk.
[21:26:12] <lerneaen_hydra> cup them?
[21:26:21] <lerneaen_hydra> the teeth bend backwards?
[21:27:06] <skunkworks> No - the blade is about 2 inches deep - that cups.
[21:27:18] <lerneaen_hydra> oh my
[21:27:22] <skunkworks> yes - oops
[21:27:28] <lerneaen_hydra> a quite loud accident
[21:27:47] <lerneaen_hydra> band breakage? snaps off?
[21:28:51] <skunkworks> we have not had too many break.. Not a big deal. No - the cupping just screws up the blade so it won't cut strait anymore. very hard to un-cup it - we tried running it thru a forming wheel once.
[21:29:37] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, wait, I'm not sure I get what cupping is
[21:29:58] <SWPadnos> think about bending the blade as though it were a ribbon
[21:30:05] <lerneaen_hydra> wouldn't that be where the back end of the blade bends over to one side?
[21:30:09] <SWPadnos> so you have a curved cross section instead of straight
[21:30:18] <skunkworks> right
[21:30:18] <SWPadnos> (is that it?)
[21:30:28] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, how do you manage to do that?
[21:30:30] <skunkworks> (
[21:30:37] <SWPadnos> push too hard
[21:30:37] <lerneaen_hydra> that would require a lot of force
[21:30:44] <SWPadnos> push waaaaay too hard
[21:30:48] <lerneaen_hydra> a shitload of force
[21:30:57] <skunkworks> if you force the blade too hard - it start to go sideways - the wood then forms the blade into a cup
[21:30:58] <lerneaen_hydra> aren't the blades like 2mm thick?
[21:31:08] <lerneaen_hydra> err
[21:31:09] <lerneaen_hydra> wait
[21:31:14] <SWPadnos> push waaaaay waaaaay too hard
[21:31:18] <lerneaen_hydra> .75 or thereabout
[21:31:29] <lerneaen_hydra> right, way too hard
[21:31:31] <skunkworks> .07 or so probably
[21:31:39] <lerneaen_hydra> 0.07mm?
[21:31:50] <skunkworks> .07"? maybe
[21:31:55] <lerneaen_hydra> ah, right
[21:31:55] <skunkworks> again - it has been a while/
[21:32:04] <skunkworks> .04 maybe
[21:32:07] <lerneaen_hydra> quite massive then
[21:32:20] <lerneaen_hydra> it's not like you'd break it by just looking at it
[21:33:06] <skunkworks> bbl
[21:35:00] <lerneaen_hydra> 'night everyone
[21:50:12] <toastydeath> ff
[22:45:56] <maddash> waaaaaaaaaassuuuuuuuuuuup!!
[22:46:45] <toastydeath> aww shiet
[22:46:48] <toastydeath> SHEETS
[22:47:04] <maddash> 3D ARCS, BABY!
[22:48:29] <toastydeath> 6d arcs!
[22:48:31] <toastydeath> THE FINAL FRONTIER
[22:48:56] <maddash> whoa. ubersphere.
[22:49:14] <toastydeath> QUICKLY, TO THE HALL OF JUSTICE
[22:49:18] <a-l-p-h-a> ubersphere > hypercube?
[22:49:25] <toastydeath> does anyone know how correction tapes work
[22:49:33] <toastydeath> was there ever such a thing as an analog servo
[22:49:37] <a-l-p-h-a> you sniff it like whiteout.
[22:49:44] <maddash> a-l-p-h-a, apparently so, since dim(hypercube)=4
[22:49:49] <toastydeath> if only that were the case
[22:50:14] <toastydeath> or are servos all digital
[22:50:15] <toastydeath> or what
[22:50:35] <a-l-p-h-a> and, yes... servo's can be analogue.
[22:50:47] <a-l-p-h-a> the inside of my ear is so itchy. :/
[22:50:55] <toastydeath> i guess that makes using an audio tape for correction feasable
[22:51:52] <toastydeath> why is your ear itchy
[22:52:03] <toastydeath> do you have ear spiders
[22:52:14] <maddash> what can you do with true 3d arcs that you can't with caRTESIAN ONES?
[22:53:35] <toastydeath> a true 3d arc would be multiple rotary axes
[22:54:17] <toastydeath> WHAT ARE YOU EVEN ASKING
[22:54:17] <maddash> really? I've finished modding emc2 to do it on my bridgeport 1
[22:54:52] <toastydeath> i have no doubt you have a very close approximation of an arc
[22:54:58] <toastydeath> very close!
[22:55:44] <maddash> toastydeath, are you high?
[22:55:51] <toastydeath> i wish
[22:55:55] <toastydeath> but no
[22:56:57] <toastydeath> i am also kind of confused as to what you are stating/claiming
[22:57:01] <toastydeath> so that may be adding to the insanity
[22:57:53] <maddash> tilted arcs
[22:58:04] <toastydeath> interpolated tilted arcs
[22:58:08] <toastydeath> specifically
[22:59:17] <toastydeath> and i, of course, was being inflammatory
[22:59:26] <toastydeath> by pooh-poohing interpolated arcs
[22:59:35] <maddash> huh?
[22:59:57] <toastydeath> nevermind
[22:59:58] <maddash> geea
[23:00:03] <toastydeath> geea?
[23:00:19] <maddash> i'll just submit my code patches tomorrow
[23:00:29] <toastydeath> indeed
[23:00:38] <toastydeath> how did you implement the 3d arc
[23:00:43] <toastydeath> is it like, a plane definition
[23:00:48] <toastydeath> and then an arc along that plane
[23:01:46] <maddash> it's not that tedious
[23:01:54] <maddash> just specify three points
[23:02:42] <toastydeath> yar
[23:02:46] <toastydeath> that's a plane definition
[23:03:22] <toastydeath> oh
[23:03:25] <toastydeath> i'm retarded again
[23:03:30] <toastydeath> i see what you are saying
[23:03:32] <toastydeath> never listen to me again.
[23:04:19] <toastydeath> also congrats on implementing it
[23:05:16] <maddash> :)
[23:05:59] <maddash> hm, i wonder if the board elections have started yet
[23:07:14] <toastydeath> for emc?
[23:07:45] <maddash> yes
[23:17:27] <Skullworks-PGAB> Paul should be voted dog catcher...
[23:17:54] <toastydeath> i would like to submit my name for the position of "peanut gallery"
[23:17:54] <Skullworks-PGAB> err post pooch cleanup
[23:18:50] <SWPadnos> I think all IRC members have honorary "peanut gallery" status anyway
[23:18:56] <toastydeath> niiiice
[23:19:02] <toastydeath> i would like a badge/card
[23:19:13] <SWPadnos> well, the bad news is that the left armrest of my office chair just broke
[23:19:26] <toastydeath> MACHINE A NEW ONE
[23:19:32] <SWPadnos> the good news is that means I can now justify buying a new one, something I've been thinking about fora year
[23:19:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> domestic peanuts, without .gov farming subs
[23:19:38] <toastydeath> oh
[23:19:53] <SWPadnos> I'm just not sure if buying an Aeron is still the kiss of death for a technology company :)
[23:20:03] <Skullworks-PGAB> Criterion
[23:20:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> 20 way adjustable
[23:20:39] <SWPadnos> interesting
[23:21:45] <Skullworks-PGAB> When I worked for Gateway computer corp those were what we were issued - 10 hours of comfort while wired into a phone...
[23:22:40] <Skullworks-PGAB> I miss such nice clean work...
[23:23:03] <Skullworks-PGAB> and the fat paychecks.
[23:23:27] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:23:52] <Skullworks-PGAB> oh well - (-11 was the begining of the end for may great things
[23:24:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> 9-11
[23:24:05] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:24:13] <toastydeath> on analog servos, how would you preform a correction if you had another analog signal
[23:24:15] <toastydeath> like on a tap
[23:24:17] <toastydeath> tape
[23:24:35] <SWPadnos> well - this is why they call them "servo amplifiers"
[23:24:51] <toastydeath> hmm
[23:24:57] <SWPadnos> they would take a torque (current) command, and amplify it
[23:25:20] <toastydeath> so i could add/subtract the value on the tape from the input signal
[23:25:23] <toastydeath> IN THEROY
[23:25:55] <toastydeath> hmm.
[23:25:58] <toastydeath> ty sir
[23:26:22] <SWPadnos> that's the exact thing they'd do - op-amps and very good noise filtering :)
[23:26:28] <SWPadnos> analog PID
[23:26:40] <toastydeath> what does PID stand for
[23:27:09] <SWPadnos> proportional, integral, differential
[23:27:22] <SWPadnos> look for it in the wiki / wikipedia / google ...
[23:27:23] <toastydeath> k
[23:29:18] <toastydeath> there are a few interesting CNC lathes
[23:29:22] <toastydeath> that still use analog servos/etc
[23:29:26] <toastydeath> and instead of trying to digitize stuff
[23:29:48] <toastydeath> they use high resolution measurement equipment, and create an analog tape for error correction
[23:30:03] <toastydeath> analog measurement stuff and just record the output, subtract it from the ideal form
[23:30:15] <SWPadnos> I'd prefer to use a computer, but I think part finishes are better when you have analog servo commands/drives
[23:30:40] <toastydeath> these are very accurate lathes, built for not a whole lot of money
[23:30:56] <ds2> Mmmmm sounds like tuning an analog servo would make a good final exam for an op-amp class
[23:31:01] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:31:20] <SWPadnos> Problem 1: tune this motor system
[23:31:41] <SWPadnos> Problem 2: now make it work under varying loads, at varying speeds, with crud in the drive mechanism :)
[23:32:07] <toastydeath> also the accuracy of the servo really only affects the dimensonal accuracy
[23:32:15] <toastydeath> rather than surface finish
[23:32:43] <SWPadnos> consistency in the control / drive will certainly affect finish
[23:32:48] <toastydeath> it doesn't
[23:33:08] <toastydeath> not unless the servo vibrates during operation
[23:33:27] <toastydeath> there are whole papers on this
[23:33:36] <toastydeath> and a couple standards by the ASPE
[23:33:59] <SWPadnos> I'd be very surprised if that were true, but I'll leave it for now (since I have no time to research and refute :) )
[23:34:02] <toastydeath> lol
[23:34:47] <Skullworks-PGAB> toasty has obviously never done high speed 3D DNC
[23:36:11] <toastydeath> and i'm going to say you don't know what factors go into surface finish
[23:36:33] <toastydeath> and optical appearance
[23:36:47] <toastydeath> neener!
[23:37:23] <toastydeath> read the papers, they've available through the aspe
[23:39:20] <toastydeath> i think my air conditioner is broken
[23:39:37] <toastydeath> your vengence has been laid upon me, sirs
[23:40:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> I have to hold a .5 max finish all day long, I know alot about it, down to the surface temp of the way lube.
[23:41:10] <toastydeath> so then you know the servo error in of itself does not cause problems in surface finish but rather how the mill deals with it
[23:41:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> HP has demanding specs for its OEM providers
[23:42:19] <toastydeath> and that asynchronous error in the direction of the surface is what contributes to an optically imperfect surface regardless of measured Ra
[23:43:15] <toastydeath> also, are you hard milling?
[23:43:17] <toastydeath> hard milling is cool
[23:43:32] <toastydeath> where i work won't buy exotic inserts
[23:43:40] <toastydeath> to try new processes
[23:43:44] <Skullworks-PGAB> not currently - I have doing Die work
[23:44:11] <toastydeath> have?
[23:44:49] <Skullworks-PGAB> Kennametal sends me free samples to destroy to gage tool life in different applications
[23:44:53] <toastydeath> ha
[23:45:00] <Skullworks-PGAB> the HP stuff I do is all lathe
[23:45:11] <toastydeath> what do you make
[23:45:15] <toastydeath> spindles?
[23:45:27] <Skullworks-PGAB> Fuser rollers
[23:45:33] <toastydeath> ha, that is cool
[23:45:48] <Skullworks-PGAB> the image transfer units in high speed laser printers
[23:45:49] <toastydeath> what machines are you using to hold a .5
[23:46:08] <Skullworks-PGAB> Okuma LR15 dual turret lathe
[23:46:16] <toastydeath> i hear good things about okuma
[23:46:25] <toastydeath> diamond inserts?
[23:46:28] <toastydeath> cbn?
[23:46:48] <Skullworks-PGAB> PCD diamond
[23:46:54] <toastydeath> cool
[23:47:14] <toastydeath> have you tried putting a SPDT insert in your machine?
[23:47:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> have to fill the part interior with foam to damp harmonics
[23:47:32] <toastydeath> if you're getting a .5 on pcd you should be able to do even better
[23:47:47] <toastydeath> prodvided you re-sharpen them in house
[23:48:02] <Skullworks-PGAB> we can get much better - but they want 48-66 part per hour
[23:48:07] <toastydeath> ah
[23:48:14] <toastydeath> that would explain the harmonics thing
[23:48:40] <Skullworks-PGAB> so we run as fast as possible that will stay in spec consistantly
[23:49:07] <toastydeath> have you ever looked at live tooling grinders
[23:49:10] <Skullworks-PGAB> machine runs at least 100hrs a week
[23:49:36] <toastydeath> i dunno if that would wind up being faster or slower
[23:50:05] <Skullworks-PGAB> newer management won't spend a dime on hardware now
[23:50:08] <toastydeath> ah
[23:50:29] <Skullworks-PGAB> they are being sucked dry by our parent company
[23:50:51] <toastydeath> damn
[23:50:53] <toastydeath> that sukcs
[23:50:52] <toastydeath> *sucks
[23:51:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> parent company just decided to sell our building to an investment group with a lease back agreement
[23:51:28] <toastydeath> are you guys slowly getting axed or what?
[23:51:37] <toastydeath> parent company dying?
[23:52:27] <Skullworks-PGAB> so they grab all the cash from the sale, and now leave us with a higher monthly overhead since the building has been paid off for years - now we'll have rent payments
[23:53:13] <Skullworks-PGAB> profit margins going down - china has grabbed alot of the low end bulk market
[23:53:41] <Skullworks-PGAB> they still can't match our quality on high end stuff
[23:53:44] <toastydeath> yeah
[23:53:53] <Skullworks-PGAB> but they are working on it.
[23:54:11] <toastydeath> i don't hear too many people worried about the high end stuff
[23:54:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> In 10 years they will be real close
[23:55:09] <toastydeath> they could be, if the economic incentive is there
[23:55:26] <toastydeath> they seem to be doing too good at mass production to shift just yet
[23:56:11] <toastydeath> I've heard some compelling arguements that china will loose it's bulk manufacturing edge once the economic factors shift into high precision for them
[23:56:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> labor costs are going up everywhere - even china - but bottom line, they can still do it cheaper
[23:56:28] <toastydeath> indeed, but that mentality is what is preventing them from doing high precision work
[23:57:25] <toastydeath> meh
[23:57:31] <toastydeath> maybe it will shift
[23:57:31] <Skullworks-PGAB> not much cheaper - but remember - if you price a bid to GM - they want unit cost to 7 decimal places
[23:57:44] <toastydeath> indeed, but they need the part to come back in spec
[23:58:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> so they can know exact cost per million units
[23:58:16] <toastydeath> nice
[23:58:37] <Skullworks-PGAB> bids are won in the 5th or later decimal spot
[23:58:50] <Skullworks-PGAB> it can be that tight
[23:59:09] <toastydeath> for high precision work?
[23:59:35] <Skullworks-PGAB> any work - case cited was for the door hing used on chevy trucks
[23:59:44] <toastydeath> yeah, THAT is standard
[23:59:51] <Skullworks-PGAB> 2 suppliers bid