#emc | Logs for 2007-07-30

[00:11:31] <JymmmEMC> Okeu... MAYBEeeeeeeeee I coulda taken a lil more off, but it DOES fit now =)
[00:17:06] <JymmmEMC> I think I figured out how to square up and shave off that al block too... I just remembered I have some 2" x 6" architectural aluminum 'L' bracket... Will clamp a file to one edge, and toss some graphite (as a lube) on the other and start filing.
[00:23:17] <tomp> hektor's anti-wobble algorithm is shown http://imagebin.org/9597 but not explained. interesting path control over a very wiggly system. red is path, blue is paint. extra red are loops to let system stop wobbling before next stroke is painted.
[00:30:36] <JymmmEMC> ah, is that what the extra loops in the video are for... I thought that could be compensated for in SW
[00:30:52] <JymmmEMC> slow it down so not so much jerking motion
[00:32:20] <JymmmEMC> tomp: does he say how he's adding the anti-wobble loops?
[00:33:05] <JymmmEMC> oh an algo
[00:33:25] <tomp> no, i suppose it might be in his plugin for adobe, and i;m sure there's no feedback, just experience
[00:33:59] <JymmmEMC> I suspect where any angle greater than x amount
[00:34:38] <JymmmEMC> If he could only find spray cans that dry faster now =)
[00:34:44] <JymmmEMC> less drip
[00:36:06] <tomp> the mechanism is cool, 2 steppers and a length of toothed belt. maybe a 2d window cleaner for big buildings ;)
[00:36:45] <JymmmEMC> Oh no... I think he has a great application being artistic in nature.
[00:37:09] <JymmmEMC> Maybe an airbrush (or 10) with different colors
[00:37:16] <JymmmEMC> instead of spray can
[00:37:23] <tomp> the position is the length from 1 motor to the sprayer and the angle. polar, and the other ray,angle is like 'complimentary'
[00:38:17] <tomp> i think they tried multi color and had a bit of registration problems... there was a house, sky sun, lawn tree. with different colors
[00:38:42] <tomp> could be hal-ified
[00:38:56] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/VERSION: 2.1.7 release
[00:38:56] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: 2.1.7 release
[00:38:57] <JymmmEMC> Heh... RGB
[00:39:19] <JymmmEMC> giant inkjet printer =)
[00:39:50] <tomp> tattoos for wisconsin women ;)
[00:40:25] <JymmmEMC> Actually, that might work... 0-256 == FF, RGB being 000000 thru FFFFFF = 16.8 Million colors
[00:41:50] <tomp> how to mix? time? orifice? what does the 8 bits do?
[00:42:43] <JymmmEMC> http://phs.prs.k12.nj.us/ComputerClub/html/images/rgb-colorchart.gif
[00:42:57] <JymmmEMC> That's not all 16.8M but you get the idea
[00:44:07] <JymmmEMC> http://www.printerspot.com/images/test_images/color_chart_OG.jpg
[00:44:15] <JymmmEMC> That's a tad better
[00:55:59] <dmessier> tattoos for wisconsin women ;).... that just dont sound right...
[00:57:08] <dmessier> and you know they have a boyfriend... cause theres chaw stains on both sides of the truck
[01:01:39] <a-l-p-h-a> I thought you just admitted to having a boyfriend.
[01:01:46] <a-l-p-h-a> I just read it wron
[01:01:48] <a-l-p-h-a> g
[01:04:26] <dmessier> thx..
[01:11:39] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/VERSION: bump after release
[01:16:11] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10infrastructure/release-procedure: notes about making a release. mostly for me but also for the next release manager.
[01:28:04] <cradek> cradek has changed the topic to: Welcome! EMC (Enhanced Machine Controller) is a linux-based opensource CNC control. | Latest release: EMC 2.1.7 | http://www.linuxcnc.org | http://wiki.linuxcnc.org
[01:56:42] <tomp> cradek: et al, thanks! (2.1.7)
[02:31:42] <ds2> Mmmmm 46000 RPM spindles
[03:11:47] <toast> ff
[08:57:06] <Jymmm> anyoen rememebr that ghost like proggy g4 something?
[09:11:36] <Jymmm> ah g4l
[09:11:44] <Jymmm> (Ghost for Linux)
[12:10:36] <fenn> On July 26, 2007, an explosion ocurred during a cold flow test of a nitrous oxide injector at a Scaled Composites test stand at Mojave Spaceport in Mojave, California, killing three, critically injuring three others.
[12:36:56] <skunkworks> great job on the EMC 2.1.7 release
[12:37:15] <skunkworks> fenn: do you have an article? I read a bit about it last week.
[13:01:52] <skunkworks> LawrenceG: I forgot to mention - the optos that I used are going to be obsolete. http://sales.digikey.com/DKES/op.asp?dkm=1944&pn=TLP2530-ND
[13:02:26] <skunkworks> when I first got the email from digikey - there was no direct replacement.. Now there seems to be. :)
[13:08:01] <fenn> skunkworks: http://www.kget.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=cf560cfe-9ee7-4496-83dd-e2ba667d9362
[13:10:19] <fenn> the only reason i can imagine an explosion like that happening is if the nitrous oxide were contaminated with something flammable
[13:11:07] <archivist> dirty nozzle
[13:11:37] <fenn> no, would have to be inside the tank
[13:11:55] <fenn> like if someone cleaned the tank and left an oil film or something
[13:14:09] <tomp> wow, java 3D french type handwriting ( i think/imagine ) http://www.atomless.com/projects/sketchpad1/
[13:15:44] <SWPadnos> cool - Mesa has a new USB / parallel port FPGA card (or will haev soon)
[13:15:50] <SWPadnos> the 7i43
[13:33:38] <tomp> hektor's sister rita, has a tool changer http://www.hektor.ch/News/August+2005/Say+Hello+to+Rita/Rita.mov/
[13:37:57] <awallin> nice...
[13:38:52] <tomp> hi tech , that alum extrusion, packaged linear motion units, igus cable units, draws on rear... wayang kulit like ( indonesian shadow play )
[13:39:49] <awallin> anyone used OpenSceneGraph ? (www.openscenegraph.org)
[13:41:32] <awallin> or coin3d (www.coin3d.org)
[13:41:52] <awallin> trying to find something to base some cad/cam work on...
[13:42:21] <SWPadnos> I suspect that the rendering of models isn't the hard part
[13:42:37] <SWPadnos> it's the representation and manipulation of solids that gets you
[13:43:09] <awallin> it would be nice to get the selection, rendering and shading etc 'for free' from somewhere...
[13:43:17] <SWPadnos> that said, both those packages look nice :)
[13:43:51] <cradek> I haven't looked at the brlcad gui lately but I bet it has the functionality you need underneath
[13:48:58] <cradek> awallin: thanks for updating the wiki stuff!
[13:52:07] <awallin> cradek: youre welcome. not sure if the date went right, in my part of the world your email arrived on 30 july... not that it matters too much
[13:53:00] <cradek> sure, it was 29th here, but it doesn't matter
[13:55:46] <awallin> hmm, there are a lot of these 3d toolkits, but I'd like to find one that is easy to use and cross-platform.
[13:55:59] <awallin> NET/mono would solve the cross-platform thing nicely...
[14:00:14] <fenn> look at ogre while you're at it
[14:00:33] <fenn> less powerful than OSG but its ok for most things
[14:04:58] <awallin> fenn: thanks, I'll look at it
[14:10:38] <awallin> hm, there's something like this too http://axiomengine.sourceforge.net/ which seems to run under NET/mono
[15:25:30] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[15:34:17] <EldonB48> /id
[16:14:37] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler: re the stepper config generator, another functionality that would be nice to have is the minimum base_period calculation done in the ods spreadsheet on the wiki
[16:18:26] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: I agree
[16:20:58] <lerneaen_hydra> well, that didn't take a lot of convincing ;)
[16:23:16] <jepler> agreeing that something would be nice is different from agreeing to implement it
[16:23:34] <skunkworks> :)
[16:24:58] <lerneaen_hydra> It's not like I could code it anyway*
[16:25:05] <lerneaen_hydra> *not well in any case
[16:25:55] <lerneaen_hydra> not unless you want lots of nice big bloated java libs as dependancies :/
[16:26:18] <jepler> that would probably be a hard sell
[16:26:27] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah something tells me that too ;)
[16:26:39] <lerneaen_hydra> for around 50 lines of code
[16:33:18] <skunkworks> * skunkworks just put a lowball bid on a hermes vangard 7200 engraving machine at the local university.
[16:33:35] <skunkworks> hopefully no one knows what it is ;)\
[16:34:46] <jepler> lerneaen_hydra: stepconf is already a lot more than 50 lines of code -- 1000 lines python plus 7000 lines of "glade" (GUI layout specification)
[16:35:13] <lerneaen_hydra> did it take that much?
[16:35:21] <lerneaen_hydra> the gui code was autogenerated I take it
[16:35:39] <lerneaen_hydra> but the python code length seems longer than it would have to be...
[16:35:38] <jepler> yes, there's a terrible GUI for building gtk+ GUIs, and I chose to use it
[16:38:01] <lerneaen_hydra> heh, effective
[16:39:31] <jepler> I probably "clicked" more times in glade than I do in a normal month of computer use
[16:41:25] <jepler> need to take an action when the contents of a particular entry field is changed? It's 5 clicks in glade to add the callback. Now do it for 100 fields.
[16:41:31] <jepler> (I hate using GUIs)
[16:42:00] <lerneaen_hydra> oh fun fun fun
[16:43:12] <JymmmEMC> lerneaen_hydra: sarcasm or enthusiasm?
[16:43:44] <lerneaen_hydra> <jepler> need to take an action when the contents of a particular entry field is changed? It's 5 clicks in glade to add the callback. Now do it for 100 fields.
[16:43:44] <lerneaen_hydra> <jepler> (I hate using GUIs)
[16:44:14] <JymmmEMC> MACRO!!!
[16:44:25] <JymmmEMC> lather, rinse, repeat!
[16:45:10] <jepler> JymmmEMC: I agree that would be great, but glade has no support for programmability
[16:45:33] <JymmmEMC> jepler: =(
[16:45:40] <jepler> of course, when I wrote a graphical GUI designer I made programmability the centerpiece, but it's still a POS and nigh-impossible to use
[16:46:14] <JymmmEMC> jepler: grep ?
[16:46:42] <JymmmEMC> or is it purely a GUI IDE?
[16:47:56] <jepler> JymmmEMC: you mean the GUI designer I wrote? It's for Tk, and it is not a full IDE -- just an editor for screen layout
[16:48:33] <JymmmEMC> jepler: I was speaking of glade. Inkscape even has a CLI
[16:50:47] <JymmmEMC> But don't mind me too much, I've never done GUI dev before, just played one on TV.
[16:51:30] <JymmmEMC> I'd LOVE to learn GUI dev though.
[16:52:12] <archivist> learn the win api from c then you will change your mind
[16:52:50] <JymmmEMC> archivist: Why do you think I never have thus far =)
[16:54:41] <JymmmEMC> Note for future reference... When you take a scrnshot that will be on public display, be sure to hide the eDonkey and KeyGen in advance. http://glade.gnome.org/graphics/win32.png
[16:56:32] <archivist> eDonkey, keygen ..... never heard of them cough
[17:05:36] <JymmmEMC> archivist: Yeah, in olden days donkey theft and mule jacking were common... eDonkey was a LoJack like thingy and KeyGen was like the chips they put in your car keys.
[17:08:48] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[17:15:16] <fenn> you could hack on libglade xml files instead of using glade
[17:17:22] <awallin> fenn: I'm going mad looking at all the 3D engines available out there...
[17:17:35] <fenn> awallin: i recommend avoiding them until you really need it
[17:18:16] <fenn> raw opengl is not as bad as it looks
[17:18:25] <awallin> yeah, probably a good idea...
[17:20:34] <awallin> alhtough I wouldn't want to implement selection and shading etc from scratch. but that can wait
[17:21:30] <skunkworks> maybe the doom3 engine? ;)
[17:21:59] <JymmmEMC> -2
[17:26:57] <awallin> yeah, doom3-based cad/cam...
[17:34:14] <awallin> I guess it's raw OpenGL for now
[18:24:40] <JymmmEMC> awallin: Does that mean when you want to create a hole, you use a gatlin gun tool?
[18:25:45] <JymmmEMC> and a flame throw would be the erase/undo tool?
[18:25:50] <JymmmEMC> thrower
[18:27:09] <jepler> now that's what we need: a milling machine with undo
[18:27:14] <jepler> to reattach all the swarf, in case there was a bug in your gcode
[18:27:23] <jepler> or say you snap a tool -- you'd want to use undo
[18:27:32] <JymmmEMC> lol
[18:27:36] <cradek> you just use the "putting on" tool for that
[18:27:45] <alex_joni> use a welder :P
[18:28:07] <cradek> or knurling tool (actually works)
[18:28:23] <alex_joni> and a welder doesn't ?
[18:28:30] <cradek> sure
[18:28:31] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC pulls out the 'board stretcher' to show everyone, for when you cut that 2x4 a lil too short!
[18:28:33] <ds2> CNC knurling?
[18:29:11] <jepler> ds2: I think you get that by using G33 with the wrong pitch number
[18:29:19] <ds2> Oh heheh
[18:29:25] <cradek> I'm tempted to try "knurling" with G33
[18:29:31] <ds2> cut knurling... hehe
[18:29:39] <cradek> I'd have to cut a special threading tool with more relief than usual
[18:29:47] <cradek> but I've thought about it :-)
[18:29:54] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek: I did that once before, worked nicely
[18:29:59] <lerneaen_hydra> not 45 degree though
[18:30:03] <lerneaen_hydra> maybe 20-ish
[18:30:18] <ds2> can EMC keep up or at least fault when it figures it can't feed fast enough for the selected spindle speed?
[18:31:01] <cradek> ds2: no, that's up to you
[18:31:06] <ds2> oh heh
[18:31:12] <cradek> lerneaen_hydra: cool, any pictures?
[18:31:48] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek: hmm, don't think so, it's from when I was playing with my CAM app and G33
[18:32:02] <lerneaen_hydra> nothing particularly advanced with it as such
[18:32:19] <lerneaen_hydra> wouldn't you be able to do that with two g76 commands?
[18:32:35] <cradek> yes
[18:33:12] <ds2> why should it not fault if you thread at a RPM faster then the feed rate since the programmer has no idea what the physical limits on acceleration/feed been set to?
[18:33:34] <ds2> then the allowed feed rate for the machine
[18:33:43] <lerneaen_hydra> don't you get a joint following error?
[18:34:15] <cradek> no, I think it will go as fast as possible (like any other time you program an impossible feed rate)
[18:34:29] <ds2> but that is "fatal" for threading, isn't it?
[18:34:49] <cradek> well, stopping in the middle of a thread could be way worse than cutting a bad thread
[18:35:06] <ds2> people would get a bit upset if they programmed a 0.1TPI thread and got 1TPI
[18:35:24] <alex_joni> that can't happen
[18:35:31] <alex_joni> only the other way around
[18:35:46] <ds2> alex_joni: explain
[18:35:53] <cradek> in this case the programmer better know the machine capabilities.
[18:35:53] <ds2> it is TPI, not pitch
[18:35:59] <alex_joni> ds2: oh sorry
[18:36:07] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is beeing dense
[18:37:15] <ds2> oh btw, saw a machine this weekend that was doing 0.004" holes like it was nothing
[18:37:32] <cradek> that's a pretty small drill...
[18:37:39] <cradek> do you know what rpm?
[18:37:39] <ds2> and the 40,000RPM spindle was quiter them most 2000RPM spindles
[18:37:48] <cradek> air?
[18:37:53] <ds2> 40K on the one I saw, they claim to have a faster one
[18:38:11] <ds2> no, motor driven... the guy said "NSK spindle" if that means anything to you
[18:38:18] <cradek> nope
[18:39:05] <ds2> they had a demo peice that looked solid then when you look through the provided microscope, you see a nice array of 0.004 holes
[18:39:17] <ds2> it is too bad they are using "FlashCut" on the PC to drive it :(
[18:39:20] <cradek> what material and how thick was it?
[18:39:41] <ds2> aluminum... think the cut area was about 0.125
[18:39:46] <cradek> nice
[18:39:51] <cradek> that's a long drill too then
[18:39:59] <ds2> it looked like a 0.250 material with a circular pocket in the middle
[18:40:04] <cradek> I'm more impressed by the drill than the spindle :-)
[18:40:20] <ds2> heh...they were also giving a list of people that make those bits
[18:40:29] <cradek> I'm happy when I successfully drill a bunch of #75 holes (.020?)
[18:40:34] <ds2> even made a comment about those being the bigger bits
[18:41:02] <ds2> found their URL
[18:41:07] <ds2> http://www.cameronmicrodrillpress.com/
[18:41:11] <ds2> these guys
[18:41:29] <ds2> too bad they were saying it'll run about 26K for the one they had on demo
[19:05:58] <alex_joni> these guys have been busy: http://www.imac.unavarra.es/parallel/imagenes.php
[19:08:04] <lerneaen_hydra> oh my
[19:08:09] <lerneaen_hydra> hexapod?
[19:08:38] <cradek> wow that looks nice
[19:10:10] <alex_joni> yeah, some guys from spain working on an emc2 hexapod
[19:10:19] <lerneaen_hydra> sweet
[19:10:22] <alex_joni> I might have mentioned it when they started a couple months ago
[19:11:57] <lerneaen_hydra> some type of school project?
[19:13:35] <alex_joni> yup.. some research project I think
[19:13:42] <alex_joni> this is yumm: http://www.imac.unavarra.es/parallel/images/argazkiak/DSCN1686.JPG
[19:15:03] <skunkworks> mmmm
[19:18:44] <Dallur> a well funded research project by the looks of it
[19:24:01] <Dallur> I wish I had a couple of these to play with -> http://www.imac.unavarra.es/parallel/images/argazkiak/DSCN1738.JPG
[19:26:07] <Vq^> :-o
[19:26:20] <fenn> a bit slimy
[19:27:02] <fenn> i really dont see the point of that six-vertical-ways arrangement
[19:30:44] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: what are the blue things?
[19:32:13] <SWPadnos> motor drives
[19:32:44] <fenn> alex_joni: how did you find that page?
[19:32:54] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: ah
[19:36:47] <alex_joni> JymmmEMC: servo drives
[19:37:00] <alex_joni> fenn: a german guy pointed it out a couple months ago
[19:39:26] <alex_joni> here's a guy who wants to do foamcutting
[19:39:30] <alex_joni> http://www.rsp-design.de/plotter/Foto112.jpg
[19:40:17] <fenn> yes we talked a bit
[19:40:35] <fenn> he's using pneumatic cylinders ...
[19:40:47] <alex_joni> right
[19:40:55] <alex_joni> was he in here?
[19:41:56] <skunkworks> floppy12?
[19:42:09] <fenn> ya
[19:42:26] <alex_joni> floppy1234 ?
[19:44:16] <fenn> same guy
[19:44:25] <alex_joni> coo
[19:44:44] <alex_joni> he was asking about driving those pneumatic cylinders
[19:45:15] <alex_joni> and feedback from glass-scales
[19:49:18] <skunkworks> I just got one http://minneapolis.craigslist.org:80/bfs/356902482.html
[19:49:23] <skunkworks> for $130 :)
[19:50:25] <fenn> gratz
[19:50:49] <skunkworks> got to love what the universitys throw out.
[19:51:56] <skunkworks> I will probabaly power it up just to see what the control is like.. but I see emc in its future
[19:52:28] <skunkworks> it looks to have limit switches and maybe rolled ball screws.
[19:54:39] <bill2or3> nice score.
[19:55:18] <skunkworks> I see circuit board milling in its future.. amoung other things.
[19:55:47] <cradek> wow, nice find
[19:56:06] <cradek> did you get the vacuum table too?
[19:56:07] <skunkworks> Thanks - I am excited. :)
[19:56:18] <skunkworks> yes - althouh I don't know if the pump is there.
[19:56:35] <skunkworks> I didn't really look that close ;)
[19:56:54] <skunkworks> it is steppers. (atleast z is)
[19:58:06] <skunkworks> when dad was working at the university - he said it was there in 93.. And they never used it ;)
[19:58:22] <skunkworks> (if it is the same machine)
[20:38:28] <fenn> interesting.. a woman on my local linux user group has a "sanding machine" with a dead PLC in it (she does cnc programming at a granite shop)
[20:39:10] <bill2or3> sounds like you should make a lowball offer.
[20:39:41] <fenn> i said i'd look at it, and mentioned EMC
[20:42:15] <skunkworks> oh - side work :)
[21:02:50] <skunkworks> crap. I think I would be better off selling the engraver..
[21:03:08] <bill2or3> ?
[21:03:18] <bill2or3> controller is no good?
[21:03:31] <skunkworks> have not looked at it - I proabaly wouldn't use the controller.
[21:03:46] <skunkworks> Looking around ebay - they go for 2K or more..
[21:03:49] <bill2or3> ahh.
[21:04:02] <bill2or3> Mmmm$2k
[21:04:07] <skunkworks> right
[21:04:10] <skunkworks> garage money
[21:05:26] <skunkworks> I pick it up tomorrow - will have to see then.
[21:07:37] <alex_joni> * alex_joni heads to bed
[21:07:40] <alex_joni> good night all
[21:07:45] <skunkworks> night
[21:08:10] <SWPadnos> see you Alex
[21:08:27] <alex_joni> yup, soon
[21:08:37] <SWPadnos> cool. coming here for some reason?
[21:08:51] <SWPadnos> or at least, CT or MA or thereabouts?
[21:17:29] <robin_sz> meep?
[21:18:32] <fenn> * fenn gets his ACME 10 ton anvil
[21:19:57] <robin_sz> today was an OK day
[21:20:49] <robin_sz> apart from having to fix the f*****ing washing machine again
[21:21:06] <bill2or3> boo
[21:21:25] <skunkworks> gas powered?
[21:21:32] <skunkworks> ;)
[21:23:12] <skunkworks> hmm http://www.e-engraving.com/machines/new_hermes/New_Hermes_Vanguard_7200.htm
[21:27:53] <cradek> skunkworks: wah! I want one!
[21:33:30] <ds2> if I add an encoder to the mill spindle, is that enough to give me rigid tapping?
[21:33:52] <fenn> can your spindle reverse?
[21:34:01] <ds2> oh DOH
[21:34:13] <ds2> not under software control :(
[21:34:22] <fenn> that can be fixed
[21:34:43] <ds2> do I need instantenous stop too?
[21:35:04] <fenn> no.. ?
[21:35:32] <fenn> i'd imagine blind holes are a bit more demanding in that regard
[21:35:48] <ds2> I'd think so too
[21:36:27] <ds2> so if I can reverse it undersoftware and encode the spindle...that's all I need, right?
[21:36:50] <ds2> trying to decide if I should do a quick and dirty tach for the mill or do something nicer and get more out of it
[21:38:43] <bjorkBSD> what kinda mill do you have ds2?
[21:38:54] <ds2> just a taig
[21:39:21] <bjorkBSD> heh. doesn't 'taig' count as royalty in the miniature machine shop world?
[21:39:45] <ds2> don't think so
[21:39:53] <bjorkBSD> what does then?
[21:40:04] <bill2or3> compared to most benchtop gear.
[21:40:09] <ds2> sherline or the other jeweler stuff
[21:40:17] <bjorkBSD> certainly not the harbor freight crap.
[21:40:18] <ds2> they are priced like royality ;)
[22:03:44] <toast_> uh
[22:03:52] <toast_> there are some german machines
[22:03:58] <toast_> that are the same size os a sherline
[22:04:03] <toast_> except they're 8-10k
[22:04:20] <toast_> those are the same quality as a larger, good lathe
[22:04:31] <toast_> also swiss
[22:04:45] <toast_> it also depends on what your cutoff is for "royalty"
[22:06:36] <toast_> like, if you are talking about "what a home shop machinist would use in that size range"
[22:06:44] <toast_> or "what someone who has work to do would use in that size range"
[22:07:26] <toast_> you can spend 100k for a lathe with a 6x12 envelope
[22:08:47] <toast_> I believe both the PERL 1 and PERL 2 are worth several million dollars and have that kind of form factor
[22:08:56] <toast_> at LLNL
[22:09:14] <toast_> i would call both those lathes "true royalty" in any form factor.
[22:11:49] <ds2> toast_: there are even more expensive ones that are smaller
[22:12:11] <toast_> you're going to have a hard time topping the price of PERL 2
[22:12:23] <ds2> oh million heh
[22:12:31] <SWPadnos> or the 10 angstrom finish, I'd think
[22:12:44] <toast_> also then there's speed
[22:12:49] <ds2> I'm still impressed by the machine I saw yesterday
[22:13:01] <toast_> where a swiss screw machine will dominate in both speed and precision
[22:13:12] <toast_> and have a ridiculously tiny envelope
[22:13:31] <toast_> ds2: ?
[22:14:00] <ds2> saw this yesterday -
[22:14:04] <ds2> http://www.cameronmicrodrillpress.com/
[22:14:06] <ds2> the CNC one
[22:14:49] <toast_> that's neat
[22:14:55] <ds2> at 26K....
[22:15:11] <ds2> and the spindle at 40K RPM is QUIET
[22:15:12] <toast_> i don't know why you'd spend that much for that
[22:15:25] <ds2> (unlike the haas at 6KRPM ;))
[22:15:26] <toast_> you can buy a used VMC with the same accuracy for that price
[22:15:35] <ds2> can the VMC do 0.004 holes?
[22:15:45] <toast_> depends on the vmc
[22:16:48] <toast_> there've been a rash of cheap little VMCs with high speed spindles
[22:16:52] <toast_> for the die industry
[22:17:01] <toast_> starting to show up used
[22:17:23] <toast_> takes shrink fit HSK tooling though
[22:17:27] <ds2> VMCs I have seen are noisy
[22:17:54] <toast_> i uh, suppose
[22:18:07] <toast_> depending on one's definition of noisy
[22:18:15] <ds2> can you have a normal conversation of in front of one that is running?
[22:18:21] <toast_> yeah
[22:18:25] <toast_> i do all the time
[22:18:55] <toast_> the loudest thing about a machine is the cut, i have noticed
[22:19:15] <toast_> if the machine is really pushing the tool hard you won't be able to hear the person next to you
[22:19:20] <toast_> but that's not the spindle that's making the noise, that's the cutter
[22:19:34] <ds2> the haas minimill @6K is LOUD
[22:19:53] <toast_> dunno about the minimill
[22:20:07] <ds2> even a VF0 at 6K is loud
[22:20:10] <toast_> at 6k, i do not consider a Haas VF-0 loud
[22:20:29] <ds2> maybe you are deafer then I am ;)
[22:20:28] <toast_> it makes noise, but isn't loud
[22:20:32] <toast_> probably not
[22:21:04] <toast_> i guess if you are using a mill in an office or something
[22:21:10] <toast_> a very quiet spindle is a huge plus
[22:22:07] <ds2> besides, not everyone has 3PH for a VMC
[22:22:24] <toast_> or a VFD
[22:23:23] <JymmmEMC> http://www.shopbottools.com/prSalpha.htm
[22:24:04] <ds2> what about also need an air system and the space
[22:24:28] <toast_> i'm not saying a vmc is for everyone, man
[22:24:46] <toast_> i'm just saying, vmcs are usually not very loud
[22:25:07] <toast_> not everyone can hustle around 10k lbs of cast iron and motors
[22:25:17] <toast_> and i realize that.
[22:25:29] <ds2> there are iPods in people's ear 30 ft away that are louder then this thing
[22:25:44] <toast_> and i'm certainly not saying it isn't quiet.
[22:30:54] <JymmmEMC> VMC ?
[22:31:07] <JymmmEMC> Very Mean C*nt ?
[22:31:47] <toast_> vertical machining center
[22:31:51] <JymmmEMC> ah
[22:31:57] <toast_> an enclosed mill with a tool changer
[22:32:07] <JymmmEMC> gotcha, ty
[22:41:49] <ds2> JymmmEMC: got the block machine down to size?
[22:43:10] <JymmmEMC> ds2: not yet, but I think I figured out how.
[23:40:56] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> [1]a-l-p-h-a is now known as a-l-p-h-a