#emc | Logs for 2007-07-22

[01:55:16] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emccanon.cc:
[01:55:16] <CIA-8> fix a corner case, in tolerance mode, for two consecutive moves where
[01:55:16] <CIA-8> the second one ends at the same point as the first one starts (like a
[01:55:16] <CIA-8> drill down and back up).
[01:57:19] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emccanon.cc: backport rev 1.95 fix
[02:19:52] <skunkworks> cradek: that was quick :)
[02:26:17] <Skullworks-PGAB> I came, I saw, I read, I got confused, and finally I wiki'd
[02:55:42] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> http://www.simonpanrucker.com/beans.html buhahah
[02:55:48] <[1]a-l-p-h-a> [1]a-l-p-h-a is now known as a-l-p-h-a_
[03:30:33] <jepler> Ziegler: I haven't done anything more with that program since I posted it. the source code is there for you to download if you care to improve it.
[03:38:36] <cradek> welcome back jepler!
[03:39:54] <jepler> thanks and goodnight
[04:11:06] <Skullworks-PGAB> wow - many Chinese items just jumped in price
[04:11:14] <Skullworks-PGAB> like 25%
[04:11:39] <ds2> chinese items? like machinery or fine china?
[04:11:55] <Skullworks-PGAB> CHICOM .gov just cut subsidies from 17% to 5%
[04:12:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> machinery was top of the list
[04:12:19] <ds2> oh
[04:12:27] <Skullworks-PGAB> July 1st was the change date
[04:12:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> Syil just bumped there machines $1000 each
[04:13:14] <ds2> oh
[04:13:25] <ds2> isn't that like a 50% increase?
[04:14:08] <Skullworks-PGAB> and there is a re-valuation of the RMB coming - so another price jump is expected
[04:14:27] <Skullworks-PGAB> the SX3 and C6 went up $1000
[04:14:53] <Skullworks-PGAB> SX3 went from $3850 to $4895
[04:15:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> not sure of the C6 price
[04:15:52] <ds2> that's almost 25% increase
[04:16:14] <ds2> guess that will make Emco stuff a lot more attractive
[04:16:47] <Skullworks-PGAB> Petrol prices have given the dollar a beating - and now the chinese are finaly reacting to the loss of dollar value
[07:07:54] <Jymmmm> any issue using xubuntu 7.04 + emc ?
[08:39:21] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: only missing a RT-kernel, which you probably need to build yourself
[08:40:56] <Jymmmm> alex_joni: is that any different from doing an apt-get install emc?
[08:41:23] <Jymmmm> or are you saying the 7.x part of it?
[08:42:01] <alex_joni> we have a kernel that works on 6.06
[08:42:12] <Jymmmm> ah
[08:42:15] <alex_joni> I suspect it might work on 7.04, but wouldn't be so sure
[08:42:36] <alex_joni> when I ran the 5.10 kernel on 6.06 it didn't quite work as it should
[08:42:39] <Jymmmm> it ghought you werw talking about Xubuntu for a moment
[08:42:46] <alex_joni> nah, xubuntu is a non-issue
[08:42:56] <Jymmmm> k
[08:53:47] <Jymmmm> alex_joni: you think xubuntu would give better ovl max on RT test?
[08:54:24] <alex_joni> hmm.. you can test a non-X version first
[08:54:27] <alex_joni> see if it helps
[08:54:44] <Jymmmm> console only you mean?
[08:54:51] <alex_joni> if that doesn't improve things, then xubuntu is likely no help either
[08:54:52] <alex_joni> yeah
[08:54:53] <lerneaen_hydra> is there a console based client?
[08:54:59] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: yup
[08:55:07] <alex_joni> and you can always run the GUI remote
[08:55:08] <Jymmmm> Hmmm, how do you get rid of X in ubuntu?
[08:55:15] <lerneaen_hydra> alex_joni: oh, true
[08:55:23] <Jymmmm> alex_joni: defaults to gui login
[08:55:22] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: ctrl-alt-F1 to switch to a console
[08:55:26] <anonimasu> hm.
[08:55:32] <alex_joni> then sudo /etc/init.d/gdm stop
[08:55:37] <Jymmmm> alex_joni: ah, ok
[08:55:50] <Jymmmm> alex_joni: is that temp?
[08:55:55] <alex_joni> yup
[08:55:57] <Jymmmm> cool
[08:56:01] <alex_joni> a reboot will cure it
[08:56:08] <alex_joni> or sudo /etc/init.d/gdm start
[08:56:51] <Jymmmm> alex_joni: all these fscking daemons, three schedulers,etc... such a pita
[08:57:54] <Jymmmm> remember thing all that is =)
[08:58:03] <Jymmmm> s/thing/them/
[08:58:30] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: I know..
[08:58:40] <alex_joni> that's why I like ubuntu.. things just happen to work
[08:58:59] <Jymmmm> heh, I prefer debian, but, well, you know
[08:58:59] <alex_joni> * alex_joni has a new favourite tune
[08:59:10] <alex_joni> same sh*t really :P
[08:59:33] <alex_joni> I have debian on my servers
[08:59:41] <alex_joni> but ubuntu is great for desktop
[09:00:03] <Jymmmm> alex_joni: all the dependancies being linked. I apt-get removed totem, it took all of gnome with it
[09:00:05] <alex_joni> and for computational challenged people
[09:00:28] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: that sucks ;)
[09:00:53] <Jymmmm> alex_joni: Yeah, just a test to see what would heppen, glad it wasn't the real deal.
[09:01:46] <alex_joni> ever heard of Lissie?
[09:01:48] <alex_joni> Lissie - Bright Side
[09:01:57] <Jymmmm> sounds like an actress
[09:02:01] <Vq^> hello civilians
[09:02:36] <alex_joni> hi captain
[09:02:49] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: http://www.trilulilu.ro/aly__bv/5034d4871b0465
[09:02:57] <Vq^> is there some simple way of making G61 default?
[09:04:14] <alex_joni> Vq^: you can put it in the ini
[09:04:19] <Jymmmm> alex_joni: not my cup of tea
[09:04:19] <alex_joni> under startup code
[09:04:39] <alex_joni> Vq^: the exact ini name is somewhere in the manual
[09:04:47] <alex_joni> RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE or something like that
[09:05:30] <alex_joni> seems I got the name right
[09:05:37] <Vq^> ok, thanks
[09:05:41] <alex_joni> it's under [RS274NGC]
[09:06:01] <alex_joni> err.. [EMC]
[09:06:43] <alex_joni> hmm.. I'm not sure under which section.. there are examples with both :P
[09:07:00] <Vq^> * Vq^ grep(1)s for it
[09:07:43] <alex_joni> it should be in [EMC]
[09:07:44] <Vq^> demo_mazak and dallur-thc apparently
[09:22:39] <Skullworks-PGAB> Alex got that page up - took awhile for me to get past stupid mistakes, but I got it - http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Servomate
[09:23:16] <alex_joni> good for you :P
[09:24:37] <alex_joni> looks good to me
[09:26:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> just hope it makes sense to others who read it.
[11:45:32] <Guest884> Guest884 is now known as richarda
[11:46:33] <richarda> Skullworks-PGAB: just read your wiki page on the servomate with interest
[11:47:18] <richarda> semms to work the same as my Digiplan amps on my KMB
[11:47:54] <richarda> have you had any success with your set up?
[11:50:42] <richarda> *seems
[14:48:37] <ler_hydra> 'lo, anyone here?
[14:48:50] <ler_hydra> logger_emc, bookmark
[14:48:50] <ler_hydra> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-07-22.txt
[14:49:11] <ler_hydra> apparently not
[14:49:27] <ler_hydra> cradek, when you come by later, I've found some very strange behaviou
[14:49:33] <ler_hydra> r in backlash comp
[14:49:59] <ler_hydra> I think I heard about it before, but that it was supposedly fixed
[14:52:38] <ler_hydra> it appears that (this only happens when backlash comp is activated, ie backlash value !=0 in ini), that when moving an axis in it's positive direction all is well, and backlash performs as it should, but when moving the axis in the negative direction a movement of 0.1 mm moves the table by less, in my case by 0.098125mm
[14:52:58] <ler_hydra> in my case backlash was set to 0.1mm and I was taking steps of 0.1mm
[14:53:49] <ler_hydra> it appears to be related to the amount of backlash set, as another axis that had backlash 0.08 had much less deviation, around 70% of the deviation
[14:54:08] <ler_hydra> it could very well have been 80% of the deviation too
[15:08:40] <jlmjvm> alex joni:r u here
[15:12:58] <jepler> ler_hydra: if you use halscope to view the motor-pos-cmd, does it change by the expected amount when you move in each direction? I tried in sim while looking at axis.0.motor-pos-cmd and it seemed to behave as I expected.
[15:23:35] <alex_joni> jlmjvm: I am now
[15:41:36] <jlmjvm> alex_joni: I am getting a limits message when I run a program,but the program and limits are right,is there any way I can turn this message off?
[15:43:09] <SWPadnos> is the program small enough to put on pastebin? (or can you make a smaller program that demonstrates the problem)
[15:43:39] <jepler> it's the message shown by AXIS that says "Program exceeds limits on axis Z, run anyway?"?
[15:43:59] <jepler> there's not a way to disable that without changing the inifile limits or editing the axis source code
[15:44:26] <jepler> it's known that you can erroneously get this message in programs that use tool length offsets -- if you aren't using tool length offsets, I'd be interested in seeing the code that makes it happen
[15:44:31] <jlmjvm> alex_joni: There are 2 messages,1 is the warning,the 2nd tells you the line number and which axis,I only get the first
[15:44:43] <jlmjvm> i am using tool offsets
[15:45:28] <jlmjvm> the programs run correctly,just have to hit run anyway every time
[15:46:46] <jlmjvm> i can pastebin a program
[15:47:03] <jepler> the tool offset problem is known but difficult to solve
[15:47:16] <jepler> If you build emc from source I can tell you what to modify to get rid of the warning altogether though
[15:47:48] <jepler> if you use the package you could also modify a line in the file /usr/bin/axis with a text editor, but this will be overwritten when you upgrade to a new version of emc
[15:49:30] <jlmjvm> http://pastebin.ca/629677
[15:49:40] <jepler> in emc 2.1.6 change line 2251 in src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py or /usr/bin/axis to read "if 0:" instead of "if warnings:"
[15:49:52] <jepler> make sure to maintain the spaces at the beginning of the line exactly the same as before
[15:51:37] <jepler> in the development version, the line 'if warnings:' is around line 2093
[15:52:54] <jepler> jlmjvm: ^^
[15:53:02] <ler_hydra> jepler, here now, I'll test that
[15:55:27] <jlmjvm> sorry,let me roboot into linux right quick
[15:55:31] <ler_hydra> jepler, yes it shows the correct value, ie multiples of 0.1mm
[15:55:53] <ler_hydra> c+n*0.1
[15:56:16] <ler_hydra> some very minor jitter in the last digit, but I assume that's always there
[15:56:30] <ler_hydra> anyway, it's nothing I'd be able to see with a dial
[15:56:41] <ler_hydra> a couple nm
[15:57:25] <jepler> if the motor-pos-cmd is right, it seems to me it's either mechanical or maybe due to the finite size of a step or encoder count
[15:57:59] <jepler> what is the SCALE?
[15:58:06] <ler_hydra> I don't think it can be becuase when I turn backlash comp off the problem dissapears
[15:58:18] <ler_hydra> -625
[15:59:00] <SWPadnos> you can't accurately represent 0.1 with 625 steps per unit (you'd need 62.5 steps)
[15:59:15] <ler_hydra> yes but the error isn't a jitter
[15:59:17] <ler_hydra> oh, wait
[15:59:47] <ler_hydra> it could be a jitter but that I haven't gone past the "step" when it hops down to the next level
[15:59:50] <ler_hydra> if you get what I mean
[16:00:11] <ler_hydra> unfortunately my dial doesn't have that much throw
[16:00:24] <ler_hydra> hmm, no, wait, the problem dissapears when backlash is disabled
[16:00:43] <SWPadnos> servo or stepper?
[16:01:07] <jepler> perhaps I don't understand what you're measuring
[16:01:09] <ler_hydra> stepper
[16:01:19] <ler_hydra> 200 spr, 5x microstepping
[16:01:26] <jmkasunich> ler_hydra: you are measuring actual physical travel, right?
[16:01:33] <ler_hydra> jmkasunich, yes
[16:02:01] <ler_hydra> a dial with magnetic base attached to the table with the end touching the spindle
[16:02:22] <jmkasunich> your step resolution is 0.0016 mm, and that assumes that microsteps are perfect
[16:03:05] <ler_hydra> the jitter/error is on the range of 0.01mm when traveling 0.8mm
[16:03:14] <SWPadnos> note that 0.08 is an even multiple of 0.0016, but 0.1 is not
[16:03:14] <ler_hydra> 0.015 or so
[16:03:19] <jmkasunich> you're reporting that when you asked for 0.1 you got 0.098125, an error of 0.001875 if I did the math right
[16:03:55] <ler_hydra> jmkasunich, that's true, though I did the measurement over a travel of 0.8mm to get a more accurate reading
[16:04:31] <jmkasunich> when you say jitter, do you mean that the machine is bouncing around, it doesn't stop at one particular position
[16:04:58] <ler_hydra> no, jitter probably isn't the right term
[16:05:14] <jmkasunich> heh - jitter is what you get when you have too much coffee
[16:05:31] <SWPadnos> I'm sorry - I didn't understand the last part of that sentence :)
[16:05:47] <SWPadnos> (specifically, the last 3 words)
[16:05:54] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[16:06:35] <ler_hydra> what should be an equal travel distance in both directions wasn't, in one dir. the machine moves as commanded, but in the other it's as though the scale is off a bit, when I command a movement of 0.8mm I get 0.785 or so
[16:07:05] <ler_hydra> though when I think about it it could be that the acme screw is badly machined
[16:07:32] <ler_hydra> and that the error isn't accumulative and just happens to look like this right where I am on it right now
[16:07:42] <jmkasunich> to measure in the positive direction, do you do this: 1) move some short positive distance 2) read the dial 3) move the desired positive distance 4) read the dial
[16:08:01] <ler_hydra> yes I move 0.1mm 8 times, and read the dial between each
[16:08:09] <SWPadnos> what happens if you move in one direction, then reverse direction, then measure between successive moves in the reverse direction?
[16:08:30] <SWPadnos> ie, ignore the reversing move
[16:09:09] <jmkasunich> if you are making 8 moves in the same direction, backlash comp should have no effect after the first one
[16:09:53] <jmkasunich> put a halmeter on joint.<whatever-axis>.motor-pos-cmd
[16:09:54] <ler_hydra> it seems to be accurate to 0.005mm or so when moving in the positive direction, when going in the opposite there seems to be an accumulative error (like if scale was set to a wrong value), there's about the same amount of high-freq deviation (deviation betwwen each move) though over 0.8mm of movement there is a total accumulative error of 0.015mm or so
[16:10:01] <jmkasunich> motor-pos-cmd is after the lash calculation
[16:10:16] <jmkasunich> what is your screw pitch?
[16:10:19] <ler_hydra> 2mm
[16:10:24] <ler_hydra> acme screw
[16:10:29] <ler_hydra> probably cheap crap
[16:10:29] <jmkasunich> can your dial travel 2mm?
[16:10:41] <ler_hydra> unfortunately not
[16:10:50] <jmkasunich> do you have a 2mm gage block?
[16:10:52] <ler_hydra> .9 or so
[16:10:59] <ler_hydra> gauge block?
[16:10:59] <jmkasunich> wow, thats a tiny range
[16:11:15] <ler_hydra> it's one of those with a arm that moves angularly
[16:11:27] <jmkasunich> gage block = very precisely ground block exactly 2.0000mm thick
[16:11:30] <ler_hydra> not linearly
[16:11:42] <ler_hydra> oh right, don't think so, not here
[16:11:43] <jmkasunich> the angular ones can't really be used to measure distance
[16:11:58] <jmkasunich> because there is a cosine term in there as the angle changes
[16:12:02] <jlmjvm> jepler: got my linux booted now
[16:12:06] <ler_hydra> oh, found a linear one now
[16:12:13] <jmkasunich> they're normally used to compare things, such as "is this part centered"
[16:12:18] <ler_hydra> 10mm trave;
[16:12:36] <ler_hydra> yeah I've used them before
[16:12:42] <jmkasunich> you can use them with gage blocks to measure distance - zero dial, command 2mm move, insert 2mm block between dial and object, read dial
[16:12:43] <ler_hydra> this shop isn't as well stocked
[16:12:54] <ler_hydra> I found a linear dial now though
[16:13:03] <jmkasunich> good
[16:13:14] <jmkasunich> it would be interesting to measure over multiples of 2mm
[16:13:22] <jmkasunich> that would eliminate any periodic error in the screw
[16:13:25] <jmkasunich> or screw mounts
[16:13:43] <ler_hydra> yeah
[16:16:27] <jepler> how do you get scale 625 with a 2mm screw, 1.8 degree motor, 5x microstepping?
[16:16:44] <ler_hydra> jepler, not 1:1
[16:16:52] <jmkasunich> oh, belts or something?
[16:16:57] <ler_hydra> theres a timing belt too, not that much ratio though
[16:17:15] <alex_joni> 1:1.25
[16:17:15] <ler_hydra> it would appear that I was just in a bad region of the screw
[16:17:21] <jmkasunich> keep in mind that the belt may have some small hystersis or stretching
[16:17:31] <jmkasunich> you are looking at very small deviations here
[16:17:34] <ler_hydra> as over a longer travel it averages out
[16:17:59] <ler_hydra> the screw was rather bad, deviations of 0.03mm or so :/
[16:18:09] <ler_hydra> ah well, it was cheap
[16:18:13] <jmkasunich> depending on how critical this mahine is, and how much you care about it, you might want to do screw comp
[16:18:23] <ler_hydra> it's not that important
[16:19:11] <ler_hydra> this is just for a electronics-club at college, 0.05-0.1mm accuracy is all thats needed as of yet
[16:19:22] <ler_hydra> maybe they'll get ballscrews for it later
[16:19:46] <ler_hydra> ..and servos and a better motor and and and...
[16:21:28] <jlmjvm> where do i make the change to turn off the warning?
[16:21:48] <jmkasunich> jlmjvm: what warning?
[16:21:52] <jlmjvm> i lost what you said when i rebooted
[16:22:02] <jlmjvm> limits warning
[16:22:09] <jepler> jlmjvm: oh, jas
[16:22:19] <jepler> logger_emc: bookmark
[16:22:19] <jepler> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-07-22.txt
[16:22:40] <jepler> jlmjvm: load the log and scroll down to 15:49:40
[16:23:27] <jlmjvm> that was cool,i tried to copy and paste to my thumb drive but it wouldnt paste
[16:24:19] <ler_hydra> jmkasunich, jepler thanks for helping to sort that out
[16:26:02] <jmkasunich> you're welcome
[16:30:43] <Guest904> Guest904 is now known as richarda
[16:33:44] <jlmjvm> jepler: i found the "if warnings" in usr/bin/axis,do i just change that to "if 0" ?
[16:37:13] <jepler> jlmjvm: yes. make sure to keep the space at the beginning exactly the same, and keep the ":" at the end
[16:40:15] <jlmjvm> not wanting to let me save change for some reason
[16:43:14] <jepler> jlmjvm: if you are editing /usr/bin/axis, you must do it as root (administrator)
[16:43:33] <jepler> in a terminal, you can run something like 'sudo gedit /usr/bin/axis' to get a graphical text editor that is not too likely to mess up the whole file
[16:52:57] <jlmjvm> jepler: Awesome
[16:53:24] <jlmjvm> seems to be working
[17:01:43] <jepler> jlmjvm: great
[17:07:09] <ler_hydra> hmm, funny, could someone test running emc with backlash, relatively low accel (say 70) and hammering the jog button for that axis (in one direction only)
[17:07:27] <ler_hydra> I seem to be able to get a speed higher than maxvel
[17:07:39] <ler_hydra> (continous jog mode)
[17:07:59] <ler_hydra> sometimes it goes over maxvel
[17:11:37] <jlmjvm> I am wanting to put a us digital 5v encoder on my pacsi stepper,can the a,b,and z inputs be hooked up to 3 inputs on a parallel port breakout board
[17:12:01] <jlmjvm> without any other hardware
[17:12:40] <jlmjvm> input number 12,13,and 15
[17:12:44] <awallin> jlmjvm: yes, but the max count rate of the prallel port might not be too good
[17:13:22] <jlmjvm> what kind of rate will it read?
[17:13:52] <jlmjvm> it will be a 500 cpr encoder with index
[17:13:52] <awallin> the absolute maximum is 1/(2*base_period)
[17:13:59] <ler_hydra> not over 1/base_period
[17:14:08] <awallin> in practice it might be a lot lower than that
[17:14:13] <ler_hydra> awallin, aren't they quadrature?
[17:14:18] <jlmjvm> my base period is 10000
[17:14:22] <jlmjvm> yep
[17:14:28] <jlmjvm> quadrature
[17:14:43] <jlmjvm> 2000 counts per rev
[17:14:50] <ler_hydra> awallin, where's the 2x from?
[17:15:33] <awallin> Nyquists theorem
[17:16:02] <awallin> if you sample at a frequency f then the highest you are able to measure is 0.5*f
[17:16:51] <awallin> jlmjvm: so if you are generating steps also with the parport you will be able to measure encoder counts at roughly the rate at which you are generating steps
[17:17:14] <ler_hydra> oh, yeah, but one step on the encoder is half a period if you look at it like a wave
[17:17:22] <jlmjvm> i can generate way more steps than my motors will run
[17:17:49] <ler_hydra> awallin, only if he's running 10x microstepping
[17:18:19] <ler_hydra> if he's running full stepping then he can only sample at 1/10th of generation speed (assuming 200spr)
[17:18:35] <jlmjvm> can generate steps to run 250 ipm,but can only run motors at 100 ipm
[17:18:56] <jlmjvm> im 10x microstepping
[17:19:04] <jlmjvm> gecko g203v
[17:19:06] <ler_hydra> and 200 steps per rev?
[17:19:17] <jlmjvm> 2000 steps
[17:19:22] <jlmjvm> per rev
[17:19:34] <ler_hydra> with the 10x microstepping included I take it
[17:19:40] <jlmjvm> yep
[17:19:43] <ler_hydra> if so then that should be ok
[17:20:33] <ler_hydra> bbl
[17:20:52] <jlmjvm> im wanting to do this so it will give me a ferror if it goes out of position
[17:55:34] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emccanon.cc: fix problems with very short linear moves (1e-8) combined with rotary moves
[17:55:35] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/ (tp.c tc.c): fix problems with very short linear moves (1e-8) combined with rotary moves
[18:06:28] <cradek> Skullworks-PGAB: on your servomate you could use index-only homing
[18:07:02] <cradek> it involves jogging the axis to a certain marked location (mark is between two index pulses) and the homing does only a search for index from that location
[18:07:15] <cradek> no switches are needed and no limits are hit
[18:07:27] <cradek> it's new (only in trunk)
[18:17:57] <jlmjvm> cradek: will the index only homing be available in the next release?
[18:19:40] <Skullworks-PGAB> hmm
[18:20:24] <cradek> jlmjvm: I don't think it will be added to any 2.1 version, but it will be in 2.2.0
[18:20:47] <Skullworks-PGAB> this homing method is axis independant - can do only 1 per command?
[18:21:23] <cradek> if you'd have all your axes on their marks, you could use "home all" and have them all search together
[18:23:34] <Skullworks-PGAB> So run everything into the limit switches, use the MPG to back each off just enough so the prox switches are not tripped, then issue "home all".
[18:23:43] <mess> high all..
[18:23:52] <jlmjvm> thats kinda like how a Fadal homes out,line up the pointers,then home
[18:24:15] <cradek> Skullworks-PGAB: I'd stay away from switches - just line up some marks like jlmjvm says
[18:24:27] <mess> it finds where it misses
[18:24:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> no way to mark the Z axis
[18:25:06] <mess> guage stic
[18:25:17] <cradek> * cradek hands Skullworks-PGAB a sharpie
[18:25:19] <Skullworks-PGAB> its a quill machine - kinda like the Mazak
[18:25:56] <mess> is the quill filly retracted @ z=0
[18:26:03] <mess> fully
[18:26:30] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah - its up flush in a seal/wiper
[18:27:06] <cradek> can you add a home switch for z?
[18:27:29] <Skullworks-PGAB> the movement is only about .05" between limit and home
[18:27:36] <mess> good enuf... pullback.. mack proxy.. pu forward SLOOOWLY... monitor prox til t loses signal
[18:28:15] <mess> call home
[18:29:26] <mess> i dislike proxies ALOT... ive seen fadals home 5MM out
[18:30:24] <Skullworks-PGAB> x/y use prox - Z uses rollers micro switches
[18:30:24] <cradek> with the pointers, if you make your final home position be the one where the pointers line up, it's easy to verify the home afterward
[18:30:38] <cradek> that seems kind of nice
[18:30:49] <mess> make a button type switch that togle ove as the quill disappers into the headstock
[18:31:44] <mess> sorry i seem to be missing fingurs today
[18:33:23] <mess> on most machines without scales its all hard switches - 3 axes
[18:35:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> The Mori Seiki (monster) has lines like that - because you have to recalibrate the home position if you let the backup battery die in the control unit. (lots of fun!)
[18:35:51] <anonimasu> :/
[18:36:06] <anonimasu> * anonimasu hugs linear scales
[18:36:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> Fanuc 18 (pre i)
[18:36:47] <mess> dead baterries in Fanuc's can be a PAIN...
[18:37:35] <mess> ESPECIALLY if its in the pseudo axis drive... called the tool changer...
[18:38:30] <mess> the i's arent alot beter as far as im corncerned
[18:39:17] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah I'm lucky that way - the tool changer still just does 1 360 to find pot 1 and a switch zeros it out - its not part of the battery backup
[18:39:39] <Skullworks-PGAB> the newer ones...
[18:40:55] <mess> some are run as axes... pot positions are at co-ords... you know...
[18:42:27] <mess> siemens840d looks at EVERYTING that moves ang give it axis data ie.. pos,kinematics,max/mins limits..etc MONSTER CNC PC
[18:42:29] <Skullworks-PGAB> this one is almost 10 years old - and its still scary fast 1250IPM rapids, 9.2 HP servos, 30hp 10K spindle
[18:42:53] <mess> model??
[18:43:04] <Skullworks-PGAB> SV-50B
[18:43:16] <anonimasu> :p
[18:43:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> 40x20x20
[18:43:26] <mess> nice size machine
[18:43:39] <mess> cat 40?
[18:43:52] <Skullworks-PGAB> thats a rigidtapping machine
[18:43:57] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah CAT40
[18:43:58] <mess> no 50
[18:44:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> did a 1.25"-7 in a die plate -
[18:44:36] <mess> try to peck tap with it... ; )
[18:44:43] <Skullworks-PGAB> it does
[18:44:52] <mess> sweet
[18:45:16] <mess> ive blown guys away doing that
[18:45:20] <Skullworks-PGAB> and with the proper parameter set you can rigid tap using the Z MPG
[18:45:33] <Skullworks-PGAB> in jog
[18:45:34] <mess> yup
[18:46:03] <jlmjvm> never seen that before
[18:46:05] <mess> toshiba tosnuc 888 does it well also
[18:46:05] <anonimasu> :)
[18:46:10] <anonimasu> that's cool
[18:46:13] <anonimasu> will emc do that?
[18:46:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> someday
[18:46:23] <anonimasu> *grins*
[18:46:47] <mess> 1"-8 x 6" ful thread in cast BOILERplate
[18:47:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> but it would require the spindle to be controlled like a servo
[18:47:23] <mess> 36 holes per part 1 tap per part for safety
[18:47:26] <anonimasu> yeah
[18:47:48] <Skullworks-PGAB> so it would be a hardware limitation for most
[18:48:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> I threadmill everything
[18:48:04] <mess> it has to have angular resover or encoder on it
[18:48:41] <mess> 1"- 8 tpi x 6" dp... ???
[18:48:43] <Skullworks-PGAB> love that macro for NPT threadmilling
[18:49:16] <Skullworks-PGAB> not that - too deep for that sized pitch
[18:49:31] <mess> i thd mill alot of stuff...
[18:50:47] <Skullworks-PGAB> when I get my little machine done and running EMC - I will start a user macro library
[18:51:00] <Skullworks-PGAB> O subs
[18:51:05] <mess> ive used single pointers... full thd npt cutters....one turn... drill & tap 1 turn.. was cool 5 mm
[18:54:01] <mess> m5 has a 4 mm tap dr... for shallow thru holes.... 4mm tool with dr at lower prtion and tap form above.... dr thru to thd for... 4mm dia... then interpolate a 1mm dia circle and pitch up 1 turn
[18:54:39] <Skullworks-PGAB> I ruin Haas at work
[18:54:50] <Skullworks-PGAB> and I run Okumas
[18:55:02] <mess> get outta dodge... m5 x 8 dp in 5 seconds per hole
[18:55:06] <Skullworks-PGAB> Hwacheon
[18:56:01] <mess> okk , wfl , vdf boeringer , Tachii , la la. la
[18:56:20] <Skullworks-PGAB> drilling holes in 3/8 plate - 22mm dia - 3sec per hole
[18:56:21] <mess> justanother machine
[18:56:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> uses 27hp
[18:56:44] <mess> how are your burrs??
[18:56:45] <anonimasu> hehe
[18:56:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> .032" IPR feed
[18:56:51] <Skullworks-PGAB> none
[18:56:52] <anonimasu> that's a scary cut
[18:57:06] <mess> burrs??
[18:57:08] <Skullworks-PGAB> has a perfect reamed finish
[18:57:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> slight exit burr - just hit it on a C-sink
[18:57:41] <mess> of course your punching them with a rotary die...
[18:58:02] <Skullworks-PGAB> drills are like $730 each from Kennametal - solid carbide
[18:58:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> drilling in the Mori
[18:58:39] <mess> just keep sharpening the dril back.. get a few spares cause itll wear the margin up in a hurry
[18:58:42] <Skullworks-PGAB> coolant thru tool at 800 psi
[18:59:14] <mess> rpm??
[18:59:27] <Skullworks-PGAB> and they cutt almost silently
[18:59:30] <Skullworks-PGAB> 3300
[18:59:43] <mess> cool...
[18:59:53] <Skullworks-PGAB> all you hear is chips hitting the enclouser
[19:00:04] <mess> sandvick are good in drilling too
[19:00:18] <mess> sweet
[19:00:39] <mess> do they sound like nickles hitting the floor yet???
[19:01:16] <Skullworks-PGAB> owner knows several old time Kennametal brass - they use the shop for testing stuff
[19:01:35] <mess> i had a boss loved to get TOO close to some equipment ... Cuase he liked the sound of the nickles hitting the floor
[19:01:49] <Skullworks-PGAB> had an insert drill show up
[19:02:09] <Skullworks-PGAB> like whats this for
[19:02:16] <mess> COOL.. i used to do alot of ISCAR tesing while at toshiba
[19:02:51] <mess> muco gracias... is all id say
[19:02:53] <Skullworks-PGAB> kennametal rep shows up later with a 6 foot section of rail road rail
[19:03:27] <mess> lets make some holes???
[19:03:36] <Skullworks-PGAB> wants me to drill the holes the use to rivit sections
[19:04:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> so I do and tell him his drill sucks
[19:04:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> insert only lasted 27 holes
[19:04:35] <Skullworks-PGAB> he is just grinning
[19:05:28] <Skullworks-PGAB> says "That just fine, cause they aer only getting 4 holes with our competitors inserts>"
[19:05:55] <mess> yeah... yhat was work hardened rail he brought you wasnt it
[19:06:15] <Skullworks-PGAB> seems that the iron workhardens after having trains run over it for years
[19:06:30] <mess> ci
[19:06:39] <mess> its meant to
[19:06:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> and all these rails were being recycled - welded into mile long segments
[19:07:25] <mess> only partially h/t at forming... to allow the workers to bend corners
[19:07:41] <Skullworks-PGAB> cuts down on noise and safer - less chance of derail
[19:08:09] <Skullworks-PGAB> they are called back ins
[19:08:13] <mess> cool
[19:08:34] <richarda> skullworks:I mentioned my KMB1x earlier, I can home okay, are you having problems?
[19:08:37] <mess> brb
[19:09:19] <Skullworks-PGAB> cause the train backs into the steel mill and rail is laid on the flat bed and the train moves out until the rail is a mile long - then the train backs in and does another
[19:10:10] <Skullworks-PGAB> Place I used to work - still do some programing for them - has a KM3 that died about 2001
[19:10:49] <Skullworks-PGAB> I ran that machine from the day they put it on the floor in 88 until it died
[19:11:00] <Skullworks-PGAB> the iron is mint
[19:11:14] <Skullworks-PGAB> but its dead
[19:11:29] <Skullworks-PGAB> and the owner just don't care
[19:11:55] <Skullworks-PGAB> it sits there in the shop being used as a place to store extra Kurt vises
[19:12:22] <Skullworks-PGAB> I've made cash offeres and the guy just ignores me
[19:12:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> won't say yes or no
[19:12:53] <Skullworks-PGAB> I'm still tryin
[19:13:16] <Skullworks-PGAB> machine powers up and can jog
[19:13:31] <Skullworks-PGAB> but both displays are toast
[19:14:00] <Skullworks-PGAB> kyb is marginal now - its gotten gummed up
[19:14:52] <Skullworks-PGAB> it begs for an EMC conversion
[19:16:35] <Skullworks-PGAB> I have the facory manuals and wiring diagram
[19:17:14] <Skullworks-PGAB> but I'm not going to touch it unless I have clear title
[19:17:35] <richarda> so the issues you described with the servo amps are theoretical at the the moments?
[19:17:57] <Skullworks-PGAB> I got quotes of about $8000 to repair it using OEM parts
[19:18:34] <Skullworks-PGAB> yes - sort of - I was talking with someone else who ways trying to convert a KM3P
[19:19:13] <Skullworks-PGAB> they were having the issues - this was shortly after 2.0 came out
[19:20:23] <richarda> although my amps are not the same,
[19:20:37] <Skullworks-PGAB> KM3P had a servo which moved the varidrive to set spindle speed
[19:21:04] <Skullworks-PGAB> I think he just pulled that and put a handwheel on it
[19:21:28] <richarda> the function you describe applies to them and
[19:21:37] <Skullworks-PGAB> bet its the same electrocraft servos
[19:21:55] <richarda> I have it working
[19:22:06] <Skullworks-PGAB> used also on BMC20's
[19:22:20] <Skullworks-PGAB> great
[19:22:36] <richarda> no, by a company called Digiplan, take over by Parker Hanifin some years ago
[19:23:05] <richarda> *taken
[19:23:08] <Skullworks-PGAB> thats the amps - or amps and motors?
[19:23:34] <richarda> amps. motors are Electrocraft
[19:23:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah
[19:24:15] <Skullworks-PGAB> expensive they are - real proud of those motors
[19:24:59] <richarda> for homing you have to keep to the 'live' side of the limit swich as you describe,
[19:25:16] <richarda> but if you keep the speed down'
[19:25:47] <richarda> you can keeo the ferror quite small
[19:26:08] <richarda> *keep
[19:28:10] <richarda> I can keep min_ferror to 0.002 thou,
[19:28:25] <richarda> for me quite workable
[19:29:28] <Skullworks-PGAB> well for now its a moot point
[19:30:09] <richarda> keep on at him,
[19:30:49] <Skullworks-PGAB> I just wanted to get issues sorted out should I ever get the owner to budge on the sale
[19:30:56] <richarda> it is almost scrap with the cost of hurco's stuff
[19:31:06] <Skullworks-PGAB> it is
[19:31:28] <Skullworks-PGAB> it was appraised @ $1200
[19:32:00] <richarda> was the vari-speed servo or just motor driven
[19:32:03] <Skullworks-PGAB> and using oem parts, the parts cost alone was $8000
[19:33:03] <Skullworks-PGAB> the KM3 is just like a Bridgeport except the front of the quil is all inside the casting
[19:33:16] <richarda> ?
[19:33:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> the varidrive is hand cranked
[19:33:49] <Skullworks-PGAB> KM3P had a motor which turned the varidrive crank
[19:34:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> need a pic?
[19:35:06] <richarda> same as mine, tho there is controller board to give some software speed control
[19:36:35] <richarda> I think the KM3 just a bigger brother to mine
[19:37:07] <richarda> tool changer?
[19:37:53] <Skullworks-PGAB> here is a pic of a KM3P head http://images.machineryvalues.com/pict/133537h.jpg
[19:38:29] <richarda> looks identical to mine
[19:38:50] <Skullworks-PGAB> this was from an ebay auction http://cgi.ebay.com/24-CNC-VERTICAL-MILL-Hurco-KM3P-Ultimax-II_W0QQitemZ150141687384QQihZ005QQcategoryZ12584QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[19:42:36] <richarda> there seem to be some nice improvements coming up for indexing but,
[19:43:11] <richarda> even now, should you get it,
[19:43:32] <richarda> I think you can make a workable set-up.
[19:43:43] <Skullworks-PGAB> I know I can
[19:44:08] <Skullworks-PGAB> but I have to finishe the little machine first
[19:44:47] <Skullworks-PGAB> then build another building to put everything in
[19:44:54] <richarda> little machine?
[19:49:56] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah I'm converting a Grizley/SEIG X3
[19:50:10] <Skullworks-PGAB> benchtop
[19:50:34] <Skullworks-PGAB> kinda a micro bedmill
[19:51:00] <Skullworks-PGAB> 15.75x 6x14
[19:51:08] <Skullworks-PGAB> travels
[19:51:10] <Skullworks-PGAB> R8
[19:53:06] <richarda> nice
[20:08:26] <richarda> goodnight
[20:47:13] <Macht_Tot> Macht_Tot is now known as Fencer
[21:14:33] <maddash> why does stepgen.c bother with a "old_pos_scale" variable? Are runtime changes to INPUT_SCALE permitted?
[21:15:40] <SWPadnos> for the most part, all parameters can be changed at runtime
[21:16:03] <jmkasunich> runtime changes to stepgen.N.scale are permitted
[21:16:20] <jmkasunich> stepgen is NOT constrained to use by EMC only
[21:25:34] <alex_joni> one could have a variable pitch screw
[21:25:43] <alex_joni> and have scale based on position ;)
[21:25:56] <alex_joni> that would require scale to be an pin, not param..
[21:25:59] <SWPadnos> or an online setup application, with the system still "running" in the background ...
[21:28:31] <maddash> 'variable pitch screw'?
[21:28:54] <maddash> is that code for 'broken screw'?
[21:38:29] <jmkasunich> alex_joni: I know you were only joking, but that wouldn't work anyway
[21:38:41] <jmkasunich> since the scale is absolute, not incremental
[22:05:08] <JymmmEMC> This seems weird: "ShipIt Unfortunately, unlike the other Ubuntu derivatives, Xubuntu does not yet have free cds available for shipping due to lack of funding." Sounds like it's not even of the same project as ubuntu.
[22:05:30] <SWPadnos> it's not. it's a derivative project
[22:05:44] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: So, not even the same backers as ubuntu?
[22:06:20] <SWPadnos> they have some support from canonical, I think (there is after all a link on the ubuntu.com website)
[22:07:12] <JymmmEMC> ah, never realized seeing the Kubuntu has some $ as well
[22:07:56] <JymmmEMC> pressing of cd's is cheap enough, suspect it's the shipping
[22:08:35] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: have you ever seen how they make cd's? Very cool
[22:08:44] <SWPadnos> pressed ones?
[22:08:47] <JymmmEMC> yeah
[22:08:57] <SWPadnos> I think I read about it shortly after the CD was invented :)
[22:09:09] <JymmmEMC> CD's are pressed, not hit with a laser or anything
[22:09:50] <SWPadnos> sure - I knew that
[22:10:03] <SWPadnos> similar to a record, only higher resolution
[22:10:10] <alex_joni> good night all
[22:10:13] <JymmmEMC> Making the master is a different story
[22:10:16] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: wait
[22:10:21] <SWPadnos> and then there's the sandwiching of the foil layer between the plastic layers
[22:10:22] <alex_joni> there was a presser on some site recently
[22:10:26] <alex_joni> 20k$ or so
[22:10:33] <SWPadnos> I've seen them on eBay
[22:10:37] <alex_joni> you could do about 10k CDs daily
[22:10:38] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: thanks for the tips on the init stuff
[22:10:45] <alex_joni> any difference?
[22:10:51] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: almost 50%
[22:11:09] <alex_joni> cool
[22:11:10] <JymmmEMC> 17000 vs 10000
[22:11:29] <alex_joni> that means emc with remote display might work way better/faster
[22:11:34] <JymmmEMC> alex_joni: but I'm not sure how to tax the cpu via cli
[22:13:24] <alex_joni> good night
[22:13:28] <JymmmEMC> nite!
[22:14:58] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I'll try to get you the video sometime
[22:17:37] <SWPadnos> hmmm. where are these init tips? :)
[22:18:13] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: oh, disabling X /etc/init.d/gdm stop
[22:18:28] <SWPadnos> sure, I know that one :)
[22:18:39] <SWPadnos> I've done some testing with and without X as well
[22:18:42] <JymmmEMC> that was it, in respect to RT test
[22:18:57] <SWPadnos> on the NForce 6150, it's crap either way
[22:18:59] <SWPadnos> ok
[22:19:22] <SWPadnos> with CLI, you can switch to another terminal and do something intensive, like a large compile
[22:19:44] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: like I compile anything =)
[22:19:45] <SWPadnos> flip to another terminal and do something like find / -name "*fred*"
[22:19:46] <lerneaen_hydra> SWPadnos: can't you disable the integrated graphics on the nforce4?
[22:19:57] <SWPadnos> you can, by installing a video card
[22:20:02] <SWPadnos> which I didn't feel like doing
[22:20:06] <lerneaen_hydra> ah
[22:20:07] <lerneaen_hydra> ok
[22:20:21] <lerneaen_hydra> which results did you get with the integrated vga?
[22:20:22] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Got bandwidth?
[22:20:23] <SWPadnos> this is my file server, with integrated DVI video
[22:20:33] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, not really - only 2 Mbits/sec
[22:20:40] <lerneaen_hydra> and why is it controlling a cnc machine?
[22:20:43] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: is that up or down?
[22:20:55] <SWPadnos> lerneaen_hydra, it isn't, I was testing hte chipset :)
[22:20:59] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, down
[22:21:02] <lerneaen_hydra> oh ok
[22:21:21] <SWPadnos> I need to put together 3 or so RT computers soon (like next week)
[22:21:25] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: that should be fine (you can just pause your p0rn downloads)
[22:21:26] <SWPadnos> so I'
[22:21:39] <SWPadnos> so I'm trying to find out what might be usable
[22:22:21] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: aint that a bitch. I've been trying to find the good RT test mobo's for a long time.
[22:22:27] <JymmmEMC> good luck!
[22:22:30] <lerneaen_hydra> JymmmEMC: haha, see how he paused there after you said that
[22:22:40] <SWPadnos> oh - missed that one :)
[22:22:45] <JymmmEMC> lerneaen_hydra: Yep =)
[22:22:53] <lerneaen_hydra> looks like you got him
[22:22:55] <SWPadnos> I'm actually downloading ubuntu updates on another machine :)
[22:23:12] <SWPadnos> I'm married, I don't need pr0n
[22:23:12] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Oh, is that what you kids are calling it these days
[22:23:21] <lerneaen_hydra> or so they say :)
[22:23:26] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: You're married, you DEFINATELY need p0rn
[22:23:38] <JymmmEMC> keeps things spicy
[22:23:52] <lerneaen_hydra> O_o spicy?
[22:23:55] <SWPadnos> depends on who's watching
[22:24:05] <lerneaen_hydra> and who's watching the watcher
[22:24:20] <lerneaen_hydra> http://ceilingcat.istheshit.net/
[22:24:27] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Hey, well, if exabishionisim is what keeps it spicy, go for it!
[22:24:57] <SWPadnos> anyway - what have you found regarding RT and any motherboards you've tested?
[22:25:01] <a-l-p-h-a_> I never understood lolcats.
[22:25:01] <SWPadnos> preferably recent motherboards
[22:25:06] <a-l-p-h-a_> maybe I'm just dead inside.
[22:25:17] <lerneaen_hydra> a-l-p-h-a_: lolcats?
[22:25:27] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: None of my mobo's are "recent", all P3's
[22:25:26] <a-l-p-h-a_> http://lolcats.com/
[22:25:35] <SWPadnos> ok, nevermind then
[22:25:57] <lerneaen_hydra> a-l-p-h-a_: oh, those
[22:26:00] <a-l-p-h-a_> I want a intel E6750, with an MSI P35 platinium mobo, and 2 gigs of ram. :/
[22:26:08] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I have found that if you disable things in the bios, it helps. serial ports, secondary IDE controller, etc
[22:26:15] <lerneaen_hydra> a-l-p-h-a_: http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/299001452_7c07ef12f4.jpg
[22:26:32] <SWPadnos> yeah. I'm trying for an industrial kind of mobo, since this is going inside a large power supply
[22:26:53] <SWPadnos> there's actually a budget, but not enough time
[22:26:55] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: what about the itx mobo's ?
[22:27:05] <lerneaen_hydra> SWPadnos: without needing a discrete graphics board?
[22:27:30] <SWPadnos> ITX is OK, but there are issues with changes
[22:27:43] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: phyiscal changes?
[22:27:46] <SWPadnos> like, order the same part number and the EMC disk fails to boot on the new MB
[22:27:46] <a-l-p-h-a_> SWPadnos, how about a metal shielding around the mobo? like a good computer case?
[22:27:57] <lerneaen_hydra> needing a discrete board would make the entire setup not nearly as discreet
[22:28:06] <SWPadnos> discrete graphics is fine, the controller doesn't need any local UI
[22:28:15] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Just curious, have you tried burning a emc iso at 4x and see if you get the same results?
[22:28:20] <SWPadnos> shielding will be there, in the form of a PC case :)
[22:28:29] <SWPadnos> Ray had that problem
[22:28:53] <SWPadnos> got great results on an ITX board, then couldn't boot on the one he ordered ~4 months later
[22:29:05] <SWPadnos> same part number, different layout/chipset
[22:29:16] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: brand?
[22:29:19] <lerneaen_hydra> nasty
[22:29:22] <SWPadnos> Jetway, as I recall
[22:29:27] <JymmmEMC> (just to know to avoid them)
[22:29:32] <a-l-p-h-a_> weird.
[22:29:45] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: tried shuttle?
[22:29:58] <SWPadnos> well, I think that'll be more common than consumer manufactureres that bump rev numbers consistently
[22:30:15] <SWPadnos> I'm testing out a Shuttle XPC right now, actually - that's what's downloading updates :)
[22:30:34] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: we REALLY need to have a page of mobo's and test results.
[22:30:41] <SWPadnos> it seems pretty good - ~13000 max latency in X (nvidia card, I haven't checked the driver yet)
[22:30:52] <SWPadnos> I know - I've thought about it a lot
[22:30:54] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: onboard video?
[22:31:12] <SWPadnos> I had intended to try out a bunch of MBs at ESC when I was there, but it didnt work out
[22:31:22] <SWPadnos> nope, 7600GS I think
[22:31:44] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: we need a criteria list though, so we have an even playing field (w/o tweaking)
[22:31:52] <JymmmEMC> bios set at defaults, etc
[22:32:14] <SWPadnos> well, I'd say that BIOS at default and then "best found" would be good
[22:32:17] <JymmmEMC> BIOS version, on/off board video, etc
[22:32:21] <SWPadnos> sure
[22:32:31] <JymmmEMC> board revision <---- BIGGY
[22:32:49] <SWPadnos> I'll be doing some more rigorous testing during the week. I just need a "short list" of boards to try so I can get them bought for me :)
[22:32:57] <JymmmEMC> too bad the wiki doens't have photos.
[22:34:30] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I have right now two tyan mobos, one has Promise raid, the other doesn't. both are S2518, there is no designator on the mobo P/N wise other than the missing chipset and IDC connector
[22:34:40] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[22:34:52] <SWPadnos> nothing on the side of the last slot?
[22:34:57] <SWPadnos> there's often a sticker there
[22:35:11] <JymmmEMC> gimme a sec to pull the old mobo
[22:35:55] <JymmmEMC> No, I even looked at the stickers on the chips - no difference
[22:36:15] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[22:37:07] <JymmmEMC> Even the bios still has the "enable SCSI" option in it, but neither mobo has SCSI.
[22:37:42] <a-l-p-h-a_> wow.
[22:37:44] <a-l-p-h-a_> scsi still??
[22:37:53] <a-l-p-h-a_> scsi i, ii, or iii?
[22:37:59] <JymmmEMC> a-l-p-h-a P3 server mobo
[22:38:02] <SWPadnos> SCSI still stopms all over IDE and SATA for servers
[22:38:05] <SWPadnos> stomps
[22:38:18] <JymmmEMC> 1U
[22:38:43] <a-l-p-h-a_> SWPadnos, raid 1, raid 5 scsi iii vs raid 1 or 5, SATAII hmm... I'd like to see a price/performance comparison.
[22:38:50] <JymmmEMC> I have shitloads of dual P3 mobo's around here. This one supports up to 4GB
[22:39:07] <a-l-p-h-a_> how many P3 cpu's do you have?
[22:39:14] <SWPadnos> price/performance isn't so obvious, but in terms of performance, IDE/SATA can't compare
[22:39:25] <JymmmEMC> a-l-p-h-a I got spares
[22:39:36] <a-l-p-h-a_> what's the transfer speed of scsi? burst and sustained.
[22:39:54] <SWPadnos> U320 is 320 MB/sec
[22:39:56] <SWPadnos> per channel
[22:40:04] <SWPadnos> I think FC is higher
[22:40:12] <SWPadnos> http://storagereview.com/php/benchmark/bench_sort.php
[22:40:30] <JymmmEMC> Hmmm, where can I upload a 180MB video?
[22:40:32] <SWPadnos> select IOMark with some relatively high number, like 32, 64, or 128
[22:40:47] <SWPadnos> gack - hold on a sec
[22:40:56] <a-l-p-h-a_> JymmmEMC,, split it to be less than 100mb / file... google.
[22:41:00] <SWPadnos> http://storagereview.com/Testbed4Compare.sr
[22:41:17] <JymmmEMC> a-l-p-h-a no tools to split it
[22:41:19] <JymmmEMC> on this machien
[22:42:22] <SWPadnos> the 128 I/O benchmark shows the WD Raptors as the best performing IDE/SATA drives, at 222 IOs / sec
[22:42:29] <a-l-p-h-a_> JymmmEMC, ask SWPadnos for an shell account on his dreamhost.
[22:42:31] <a-l-p-h-a_> ;)
[22:42:36] <SWPadnos> the highest performing SCSI drives are 411 IOs/sec
[22:42:44] <SWPadnos> or close to twice as fast
[22:42:49] <a-l-p-h-a_> http://www.tomshardware.com/2003/11/14/raidcore_unleashes_sata_to_take_out_scsi/
[22:42:56] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: got ftp upload?
[22:42:59] <SWPadnos> yes
[22:43:25] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: gimme da credials baby!
[22:43:30] <SWPadnos> I got a SATA RAID card for my server, just because SCSI is still quite expensive
[22:43:32] <JymmmEMC> credentials
[22:43:44] <SWPadnos> how much downloading do you expect? :)
[22:43:56] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: No, I just wna tto upload this video to you
[22:44:10] <a-l-p-h-a_> SWPadnos, these are from 2003!!!
[22:44:20] <SWPadnos> I don't think so
[22:44:31] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: was that to me?
[22:44:36] <SWPadnos> no, sorry
[22:44:51] <Ziegler> if you upload it to him... arnt others going to download it?
[22:44:56] <SWPadnos> it would have been hard to do Office DriveMark 2006 testing in 2003
[22:45:09] <JymmmEMC> lol, good point
[22:45:42] <JymmmEMC> Ziegler: no idea
[22:46:42] <SWPadnos> what's this video of, anyway?
[22:47:01] <a-l-p-h-a_> SWPadnos, tom's http://www.tomshardware.com/2003/11/14/raidcore_unleashes_sata_to_take_out_scsi/page37.html review of scsi vs sata, in raid situations.
[22:47:09] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: p0rn of course (kidding) pressing of cd's and how the master is made
[22:47:14] <SWPadnos> ah
[22:47:17] <a-l-p-h-a_> you have kiddy porn!
[22:47:19] <a-l-p-h-a_> you sick bastard!
[22:47:27] <JymmmEMC> a-l-p-h-a you gave it to me
[22:47:35] <a-l-p-h-a_> oh yeah.
[22:47:59] <a-l-p-h-a_> do you still have the one with the goat?
[22:48:04] <Ziegler> you have transcode?
[22:48:23] <JymmmEMC> Ziegler: I have whatever ubuntu comes with
[22:48:44] <JymmmEMC> but no sound card
[22:48:53] <Ziegler> you might be able to shrink the vid a bit
[22:49:29] <SWPadnos> you know, I'm not sure I'm inclined to believe a review with this caption:
[22:49:30] <JymmmEMC> I just want to start the upload so I can start getting ready for work
[22:49:39] <a-l-p-h-a_> I need to choose a pizza. My regulars:
[22:49:40] <a-l-p-h-a_> A.) no tomato sauce, bbq sauce instead. pepperoni, grilled chicken breast, bacon strips.
[22:49:40] <a-l-p-h-a_> B.) spinach, feta, grilled chicken breast
[22:49:40] <a-l-p-h-a_> C.) open to suggestions
[22:49:39] <SWPadnos> "Too large, too slow: The hard drives from Seagate (ST3146807LW) held up our tests because of their large capacity of 146 GB. This situation prompted us to switch without delay to models running at 15,000 rpm (see below)."
[22:50:22] <JymmmEMC> a-l-p-h-a chicken with garlic sauce
[22:50:33] <SWPadnos> ok, time for dinner. see you guys later
[22:50:38] <cradek> a-l-p-h-a_: pineapple, mushroom, black olive, banana or jalapeno peppers
[22:50:49] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: ftp info?
[22:51:13] <a-l-p-h-a_> cradek, that sounds... odd.
[22:51:30] <cradek> mmmmm
[22:51:59] <cradek> maybe it's regional - yours sound odd to me
[22:52:10] <Ziegler> JymmmEMC: go to terminal and see if you have ffmpeg installed
[22:52:18] <a-l-p-h-a_> cradek, fair enough
[22:52:25] <JymmmEMC> Lemon Pepper Chicken pizza with garlic sauce, red onions, cilatro, zuccini, carrots
[22:52:48] <a-l-p-h-a_> carrots?? are they soft?
[22:52:52] <a-l-p-h-a_> or crunchy on top?
[22:52:56] <JymmmEMC> shredded
[22:53:13] <cradek> a-l-p-h-a_: do we both agree that Jymm's sounds more odd?
[22:53:16] <cradek> :-)
[22:53:21] <a-l-p-h-a_> cradek, yup
[22:53:24] <cradek> haha
[22:53:34] <cradek> maybe it's best not to ask for help
[22:53:34] <a-l-p-h-a_> I could go for a delux... but that's just boring.
[22:53:50] <a-l-p-h-a_> pep, green pep, mushrooms.
[22:54:06] <JymmmEMC> cradek: a-l-p-h-a: http://strawhatpizza.com/menu-pizza.htm
[22:54:58] <JymmmEMC> It does sound weird, especially the zuccini, but tastes really good. especially the cilatro
[22:54:59] <a-l-p-h-a_> wth is Canadian Bacon??
[22:55:03] <a-l-p-h-a_> peameal??
[22:55:09] <cradek> something like potato onion cilantro sounds nice - very indian tasting
[22:55:24] <cradek> I think it's a thick ham
[22:55:35] <a-l-p-h-a_> with cornmeal around it?
[22:55:41] <cradek> don't think so
[22:56:29] <cradek> does anyone else like pineapple on pizza? it's common enough around here, and good
[22:56:45] <a-l-p-h-a_> yeah, I like pineapples, bacon, and extra cheese.
[22:56:53] <a-l-p-h-a_> we call that a hawian.
[22:57:31] <JymmmEMC> pineapples, bell pepper, canadian bacon
[22:57:40] <a-l-p-h-a_> that sounds good...
[22:57:39] <Unit41> do european patents restrict north americans ? ?
[22:57:43] <a-l-p-h-a_> JymmmEMC,...
[22:57:48] <a-l-p-h-a_> Unit41, yes
[22:58:00] <Unit41> dam
[22:58:19] <JymmmEMC> Unit41: I patent has to be field in each conutry for it to be effective in theat country.
[22:58:36] <Unit41> cool
[22:58:57] <Unit41> what if its filed after you've allready sold a bunch of it
[22:59:20] <Skullworks-PGAB> I'll keep my SCSI thank you.
[22:59:25] <a-l-p-h-a_> hang on... WIPO...
[22:59:36] <JymmmEMC> Unit41: No problem, as long as you are not infornging on someone else's patent
[22:59:59] <a-l-p-h-a_> Unit41, I'd look into patents, instead of getting it from a bunch of jar heads like us... as we have differing info.
[23:00:07] <Unit41> I wana start building those vortex hydro dams
[23:00:30] <Ziegler> JymmmEMC: type "man avisplit"
[23:00:34] <a-l-p-h-a_> weren't those part of some government study?
[23:00:34] <Unit41> safe for the fishies
[23:00:42] <JymmmEMC> Unit41: Though, here's the (reality) catch... Yo MUST fight for your patent, meaning that if I imfringed on your patent you have to take me to court, if you don't you will lose it
[23:00:43] <a-l-p-h-a_> low speed vortex hydro damns.
[23:00:44] <Ziegler> if you are still lookig to see if ubuntu can split vid for ya
[23:00:49] <cradek> Unit41: surely you should ask your lawyer about such an important thing
[23:01:03] <a-l-p-h-a_> I'm filing for a patent as we speak.
[23:01:48] <Unit41> on what ?
[23:01:50] <JymmmEMC> Unit41: So, unless you have the legal financial backing, patents only make the lawyers rich.
[23:02:40] <a-l-p-h-a_> patents are as good as the money you have to defend it. So if BIG COMPANY wants to take your patent... you're kinda SOL... you should just sell for millions, and get a job there too. :)
[23:03:12] <JymmmEMC> Unit41: Figure a lawyer and lawsuit cost $20,000 each time you sue someone, you better make sure that you got the backing.
[23:03:50] <Unit41> I'll just email them asking if they want royalty's
[23:04:06] <JymmmEMC> Unit41: do you already have the patent?
[23:04:29] <JymmmEMC> Unit41: just because you made it first, doesn't mean someone else can't get the patent.
[23:04:48] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, yes, it does
[23:05:04] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: It's who field the patent first
[23:05:07] <SWPadnos> if I make a widget, but don't patent it, it shows that there's prior art
[23:05:13] <SWPadnos> not in the US
[23:05:20] <SWPadnos> everywehere else, it is first-to-file
[23:05:37] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Ah, I can't keep up with them anymore
[23:05:51] <SWPadnos> here it's "first-to-invent", so if you can show that you developed the thing (using dated lab notebooks or the like), you can litigate
[23:06:02] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Does it still have to be worked, or can you just sit on it?
[23:06:31] <SWPadnos> in the US, you can sit on it as long as you like, but you do weaken your case if you don't bother filing for years
[23:06:47] <SWPadnos> but you can still prevent someone else from getting a patent on the same thing, since you can show prior art
[23:07:12] <SWPadnos> it has to be "public" though - ie, if you're selling widgets or have published source code / algorithms or the like
[23:07:13] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Gotcha. Dated/notorized notes should take care of that.
[23:07:27] <a-l-p-h-a_> shit.
[23:07:30] <SWPadnos> they should, but they won't give you patent protection, only patent prevention ;)
[23:07:34] <a-l-p-h-a_> my pizza place is closed. :'(
[23:07:41] <SWPadnos> anyway, it's now dinnertime for real. bbl
[23:07:51] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I meant to proven WHEN. hasta!
[23:07:51] <Ziegler> Saw in article in the paper today about pizza flavor beer
[23:08:04] <a-l-p-h-a_> that sounds gross.
[23:08:11] <a-l-p-h-a_> pizza + beer, but not pizzabeer.
[23:08:15] <a-l-p-h-a_> or beerpizza.
[23:08:32] <Ziegler> thats what I said... guess its made with tomatoes and a few other ingredents during the brew process
[23:08:40] <JymmmEMC> beer has been introduced to dough for centuries
[23:08:55] <Ziegler> supposedly its award winning
[23:09:02] <Ziegler> and tastes great with a pizza
[23:09:51] <a-l-p-h-a_> frak. got noz fooodz
[23:10:09] <a-l-p-h-a_> hate the franciased crap...
[23:10:14] <a-l-p-h-a_> but craving pizza.
[23:10:22] <Ziegler> there is another guy other there making it that actually puts bits of pizza in the brew... thats really gross
[23:11:44] <Ziegler> http://cbs2chicago.com/local/local_story_134181507.html
[23:11:48] <Ziegler> (see video)
[23:14:16] <Skullworks-PGAB> pre vomt piza beer
[23:14:20] <Ziegler> hehe
[23:17:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> bbl
[23:33:46] <tomp> if a cad system could describe a contour in a lot of tiny straight lines that could be read & executed in a time period equal to a typical servocycle, wouldnt that drastically reduce the workload of a motion controller? ( circumvent the tp, describe the exact blended path on the cad side, not the nc side )
[23:34:53] <tomp> yeh, its basicly run the code thru emc as it stands now, and record all the tc motions
[23:35:50] <tomp> then send those trajectory cycles (tc) to the motion controller, not gcode
[23:38:39] <anonimasu> tomp: if you think about the throughput you would need for that.. I think it's not really a great deal
[23:40:03] <tomp> i think thats what i see sent to mills tho, a zillion tiny line segments, like the users are avoiding the cnc in the machine by feeding it data that it cannot reduce
[23:40:14] <tomp> reduced
[23:41:48] <tomp> tiny = < .025mm ( never saw one that large ) recently on some tests between Selca and Fanuc
[23:45:07] <anonimasu> tomp: you end up with blending calculations for thoose segments.
[23:45:24] <anonimasu> 0.025mm is pretty big :/
[23:47:11] <anonimasu> tomp: I think sending preprocessed segments were exhausted with the TP trouble we had about a year ago.. or two(cant remember)