#emc | Logs for 2007-07-08

[01:10:21] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo_firmware/quad.v: fix compiler warning
[01:11:33] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo_firmware/servo.v: fix up some warnings; fix a bug when sending an address 0x10 or above
[01:11:51] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo_firmware/pluto_servo.rbf: rebuild
[01:12:49] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/ (pluto_step.comp Submakefile): initial commit of the pluto_step hardware step generator -- not tested on actual motors yet
[01:12:51] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_step_firmware/ (5 files): initial commit of the pluto_step hardware step generator -- not tested on actual motors yet
[01:13:28] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_step_firmware/register-layout.txt: initial commit of the pluto_step hardware step generator -- not tested on actual motors yet
[01:14:00] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/pluto_step_waveform.dxf: diagram showing the timings produced by pluto_step
[01:24:21] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/pluto-step-pinout.dxf: pinout for pluto-step
[01:45:41] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stepper/ (pluto_inch.ini pluto_pinout.hal): example configuration for pluto_step
[01:48:40] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/ (pluto_common.h pluto_servo.comp pluto_step.comp): factor common code into pluto_common.h
[03:01:43] <jepler> 'night all
[03:01:49] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/pluto-step-pinout.dxf: outputs belong on a particular drawing layer
[03:04:26] <tomp> is there a divide component in hal? ( as opposed to the mult or scale comps) i could use the scale comp if i could set the gain to 1/something, which requires a divide comp again. i could use the mult comp if i set one multiplicand to 1/something... same catch22.
[03:05:07] <jmkasunich> you want to divide by a variable or a constant?
[03:05:23] <tomp> variable, changes during use
[03:05:48] <tomp> say, a knob
[03:05:48] <jmkasunich> the reason there isn't a divide component yet is that the result is undefined if the value ever becomes zero
[03:06:09] <jmkasunich> RT code isn't allowed to throw math exceptions
[03:06:33] <jmkasunich> so instead you'd get a NAN (not a number) which would propogate everywhere and make a gawd awful mess
[03:07:09] <tomp> could i hack a min value? * could the test be dome without scragging RT?
[03:07:31] <jmkasunich> you could make a divide component that does whatever you want
[03:07:59] <jmkasunich> if (fabs(foo) < 0.000001) then foo = 0.000001
[03:08:05] <tomp> yep
[03:08:06] <jmkasunich> out = 1.0 / foo
[03:08:25] <jmkasunich> actually thats not quite right, it doesn't correctly deal with small negative foo
[03:08:32] <jmkasunich> but thats a matter of another line or two
[03:09:24] <tomp> ok, there was talk about only using 'approved' comps with rugludallur's code, and a suggested new comp was poo-pooed, but it may be neccessary sometimes, thanks
[03:09:44] <jmkasunich> a proper divide block should probably make the minimum value user setable (a parameter)
[03:09:55] <jmkasunich> for some folks, 0.000001 might be too low, for others it might be too high
[03:12:03] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ohiopctechDOTcom is now known as chr0n1c
[03:17:40] <tomp> just chewed on that, thanks jmk ( yes it didnt handle when the result should be -minVal, yes just a couple lines )
[03:28:16] <tomp> scaledown comp with div0 limited liability http://pastebin.ca/608186
[03:48:06] <chr0n1c> ok so i had the indicator mounted on the z last night checking repeatability on my mini mill and it will do .001 +/_ .0005!!!
[03:48:31] <chr0n1c> i am pretty impressed... (that's with random jogging around then back to sero on all three axis'
[03:48:33] <chr0n1c> )
[03:48:36] <chr0n1c> zero*
[03:49:35] <tomp> so over a long distance, no accumulated error, nice work!
[03:51:03] <chr0n1c> has anyone here tried any of the other cnc controls based on emc?
[03:51:29] <chr0n1c> i even noticed yesterday kcam has refrences to an nist block something or other when it was checking code
[03:51:39] <Fritz> jepler: is pluto_step at a working stage?
[03:51:42] <chr0n1c> kcam, for windoze*
[03:52:52] <chr0n1c> (kcamby the way is extremely slow on my brand spankin new amd64 running xp)
[08:45:49] <anonimasu> morning
[08:55:21] <Jymmmm> how rude!
[08:55:30] <Jymmmm> alex_joni: you awake yet?
[09:19:12] <chr0n1c> so i just found some cool stuff in the dumpsters around town!
[09:19:19] <chr0n1c> it sure does pay to go through them!
[09:19:34] <chr0n1c> i found a spool of 8 gauge wire i can use for the cnc machines ;)
[09:20:11] <chr0n1c> that's all i found that could be used for the cnc...
[09:21:06] <chr0n1c> there is this badass old wooden desk in one but none of my buddies will get out of bed to help me.. damnit
[09:21:11] <chr0n1c> it's probally an antique
[09:41:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> cronic - need a PWS for the old GTW - or you going the can the old 333
[10:00:34] <Jymmm> anyone know how to reboot automagically AFTER fsck?
[10:52:43] <chr0n1c> i am going to find a new ps
[10:53:01] <chr0n1c> i think i have one that just needs cleaned out with air and a new fan installed
[10:53:17] <chr0n1c> but i had the new toy built so i thought i'd let it slide for a while
[10:54:07] <chr0n1c> i just now put together a puppy linux/emc2 bootable usb stick
[10:54:16] <chr0n1c> it is pretty darned fast
[10:54:30] <chr0n1c> i think maybe the emc2 needs upgraded
[10:54:31] <lerneaen_hydra> chr0n1c: graphical or text only?
[10:54:37] <chr0n1c> it's gui
[10:55:08] <chr0n1c> fvwm
[10:55:31] <chr0n1c> i booted from the latest cd image i could find.. (live version same as ubuntu almost)
[10:55:36] <chr0n1c> it's only 52 mb
[10:55:42] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, nice
[10:55:50] <chr0n1c> yup
[10:55:59] <chr0n1c> i got about 20 usb sticks around
[10:56:09] <chr0n1c> it's a shame i don't have that many machines to boot from
[10:56:19] <lerneaen_hydra> haha
[10:57:20] <chr0n1c> i haven't tried to actually run my machine with it yet
[10:57:28] <chr0n1c> i was still working on the ini's
[10:57:47] <chr0n1c> but everything so far seems go
[11:01:30] <chr0n1c> if this puppyEMC2 live cd had auto update for emc2 it would be my choice
[11:02:05] <chr0n1c> it's going to be really nice for showing off potential clients for retrofits ;)
[11:02:41] <lerneaen_hydra> I can imagine :)
[11:03:45] <chr0n1c> http://cooltool.he.fdread.org/cncforum/viewforum.php?f=4 <- link to the forums for the live cd
[11:03:50] <chr0n1c> *.iso
[11:09:26] <chr0n1c> http://thecooltool.com/ <- new home site for coolcnc/puppy live
[11:09:31] <chr0n1c> ???
[14:09:21] <edmoore> hi all, I wonder if anyone here might be able to help me with putting EMC2 on Ubuntu Feisty Fawn?
[14:10:51] <Rugludallur> edmoore: what is it that you need help with ?
[14:12:35] <edmoore> well truthfully, I'm very new to linux, I'm a machinist rather than a computer person, and 5 hours ago I didn't know what command line was. I've had a bit of a learnign curve since then :) I'm sort of happy navigating around on command line now, but stuff like compiling is still new to me
[14:12:50] <Rugludallur> :)
[14:13:19] <edmoore> so I was wondering basically how difficult it would be? Will it involve compiling it for Feisty fawn or can it be done more simply?
[14:13:22] <Rugludallur> edmoore: Sounds like you are in for a ride
[14:13:39] <Rugludallur> edmoore: the first question is do you need to compile anything
[14:13:44] <edmoore> I wouldn't actually mind compiling as it'd be a great way to learn stuff, I'm sure. but it's all a bit new at the moment
[14:13:53] <Rugludallur> edmoore: there is a version you can use with ubuntu which does not involve compiling
[14:14:30] <jepler> ubuntu 6.06, not newer versions
[14:14:52] <edmoore> i'm using 7.04 I believe (feisty)
[14:14:53] <Rugludallur> jepler: so feisty is compile only atm ?
[14:14:59] <edmoore> i like the names they give these things
[14:16:11] <jepler> Rugludallur: right, there are no packages for anything newer than 6.06
[14:16:29] <Rugludallur> edmoore: are you following these guidelines -> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_5_10_and_6_06_from_source
[14:16:45] <jepler> Rugludallur: that won't do edmoore much good, because he also needs a kernel with realtime patches
[14:16:57] <jepler> that is emphatically *not* a task for someone who is new to linux
[14:17:09] <edmoore> :)
[14:17:19] <Rugludallur> jepler: he should still be able to run in simulator (non-realtime mode)
[14:17:22] <edmoore> well i don't mind breaking it as I've put it on an old machine
[14:18:08] <Rugludallur> edmoore: were you hoping to control actual machinery with the machine or just try out the app ?
[14:18:37] <edmoore> well initial try out the app, but with a view to running my cnc mill with it
[14:18:44] <edmoore> initially*
[14:19:04] <jepler> I recommend you reinstall with the emc2 cd, which you can download from here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/21/4/lang,en/
[14:19:49] <edmoore> ok that's very helpful. I should really have just done that originally :) Thank you
[14:20:28] <edmoore> i assume I can boot both of them on this machine, in fact? so keep my 7.04 and have the livecd steal 20GB for itself or something?
[14:21:15] <jepler> edmoore: I think the installer will offer to shrink a partition, but I've never used that functionality
[14:22:19] <edmoore> oh well, I'll download it. Thanks for the advice. I think I could get into this linux thing.
[14:22:31] <jepler> come back any time
[14:22:44] <edmoore> thank you
[15:43:35] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxdtkopQOlM&mode=related&search=
[15:54:09] <martin_lundstrom> Hello
[15:55:27] <martin_lundstrom> What is best to run emc on? a 3.5 GH signle core or a 1.8 GH dual core processor?
[15:55:39] <martin_lundstrom> z
[15:55:59] <alex_joni> martin_lundstrom: although there is a smp RT kernel, it is far from official, released stadium
[15:56:11] <alex_joni> otoh the answer is never as simple
[15:56:27] <alex_joni> sometimes a P3-550 can get you better RT performance than a 1.8 dual core
[15:57:04] <martin_l> oups
[15:57:19] <martin_l> same amount of total cache etc
[15:57:49] <alex_joni> did you get what I wrote?
[15:57:54] <martin_l> no
[15:58:02] <alex_joni> 18:53 < alex_joni> martin_lundstrom: although there is a smp RT kernel, it is
[15:58:02] <alex_joni> far from official, released stadium
[15:58:02] <alex_joni> 18:53 < alex_joni> otoh the answer is never as simple
[15:58:02] <alex_joni> 18:54 < alex_joni> sometimes a P3-550 can get you better RT performance than a
[15:58:05] <alex_joni> 1.8 dual core
[15:59:27] <martin_l> so a single core would be better?
[16:03:46] <jepler> for today's released version of emc, a dual core or SMP machine is no benefit
[16:04:03] <jmkasunich> way too much time on their hands: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JTbJdLwqMo&feature=dir
[16:04:26] <martin_l> ok
[16:06:49] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_step.comp: the commanded rate was off by a factor of PLUTO_SPEED
[16:10:31] <martin_l> Does Intels "Hyper-Threading Technology" processors have any effect in emc?
[16:10:57] <jepler> martin_l: you probably would not want to enable it
[16:11:12] <jepler> it's a kind of fake SMP
[16:11:29] <jepler> (it will be disabled if you use the realtime kernel)
[16:11:41] <jepler> welcome kc
[16:14:14] <jepler> bbl
[16:15:56] <alex_joni> actually it's disabled by default in regular kernels aswell
[16:16:07] <alex_joni> it doesn't really help, and it provides means for security issues
[16:16:15] <alex_joni> intel dropped it eventually iirc
[17:09:15] <tomp> was there was some 'trick'; to building new comps? ( iirc, you dont have to build the whole system, just issue a cmd line in the src/hal/components directory.)
[17:17:14] <alex_joni> man comp ?
[17:17:48] <alex_joni> comp -install ddt.comp
[17:18:05] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/hal/comp/
[17:18:15] <tomp> thanks, i should've man comp'd 1st
[17:19:23] <tomp> nope, shoulld've read doc 1st ( man comp brings up the comp named comp:)
[17:27:58] <tomp> oh, and it's comp --install fred.comp ( double - )
[17:28:20] <alex_joni> tomp: bet the html generation ate one - away
[17:28:29] <tomp> hungry :0
[17:37:22] <JymmmmEMC> Could any of you see paying $1400 for a washing machine for your home?
[17:38:15] <jepler> when we bought a washing machine (6 years ago) we paid more for a front-loading type, but I don't think it was $1400.
[17:38:44] <JymmmmEMC> I like front loaders, seems to wash a bit better and save on water
[17:38:51] <skunkworks> we have LG front loading washer and dryer - Still - don't think we paid that much.
[17:40:19] <JymmmmEMC> Now, if it went from the washer to the dryer and be full sized load, now we're talking!
[17:40:29] <tomp> mrrf! comp wont build local ( perms denied ), it wanted to cp the comp to the common repository cp:
[17:40:32] <tomp> cannot create regular file `/usr/realtime-2.6.15-magma/modules/emc2/speedRanger.ko': Permission denied
[17:40:32] <tomp> make: *** [install] Error 1
[17:40:54] <tomp> does the washer have built in water heater?
[17:41:15] <JymmmmEMC> tomp: one of those fancy maytags
[17:41:42] <skunkworks> our dish washer does - I don't think the cloth washer has a heater
[17:41:52] <tomp> the water heater is expensive ( yes maytag, looks like you could keep it in front room :)
[17:42:37] <alex_joni> tomp: try sudo comp ..
[17:42:49] <JymmmmEMC> 750GB PATA $200
[17:43:07] <tomp> tried that, it placed it inthe common repo, not the 'inplace directory'
[17:43:42] <tomp> command was run from inside the correct directory
[17:49:30] <tomp> doh! the cmd is comp --compile fred.comp to get it left in the current directory
[18:01:48] <Skullworks-PGAB> Jym I picked up a 500gb 16mb cache Pata for $98 shipped
[18:02:11] <JymmmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: brand? (I suspect maxtor)
[18:02:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> Seagate barracuda
[18:02:34] <JymmmmEMC> Nice!
[18:02:41] <Skullworks-PGAB> (they bought maxtor)
[18:02:55] <Skullworks-PGAB> IIRC
[18:03:11] <JymmmmEMC> Yeah, and I HOPE that they just bought it for the factory and not engineering staff
[18:03:22] <jepler> tomp: make sure you're running the right version of "comp": if you have an "installed" and a "run in place" system, they may both have a version of comp
[18:03:24] <JymmmmEMC> http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?advid=32664&adid=4742044&subid=16787946&type=
[18:03:34] <Skullworks-PGAB> Maxtor was doing much better towards the end
[18:03:36] <jepler> tomp: if "comp --install" doesn't put the .ko in the right place, it's an almost sure sign that you're invoking the wrong comp
[18:03:59] <JymmmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: The stack of magnets on the side of my file cabinet says differently =)
[18:04:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> W98 era Maxtor were loud and slow
[18:04:28] <tomp> jepler: it seems to be the correct action, the docs say to use comp --compile to place it local, and to use --install to place it in the 'global'
[18:04:32] <JymmmmEMC> ALL hdd mfgs go thru cycles about every 8 years
[18:04:44] <tomp> and yes i have several emc2 run inplace -es
[18:05:11] <JymmmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: didn't yo umention yesterday about that BB having the db25's isolated?
[18:05:39] <Skullworks-PGAB> I have a SATA raid that uses Maxtor drives - almost everything else is seagate
[18:06:12] <JymmmmEMC> I only buy seagate now
[18:06:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah - I think the input DB25 shell and screws are not grounded
[18:06:32] <JymmmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: Confirmed.
[18:07:10] <JymmmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: Thus why he mentioned be careful when mounting in controller chassis.
[18:07:35] <JymmmmEMC> I feel better about it now, one less chance to fubar the isolation
[18:07:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> for short runs in a cabnet I use 26 wire ribbon cable and plastic body crimp on DB25's - kinda like IDC connectors
[18:08:10] <Skullworks-PGAB> so no ground from them either
[18:08:18] <JymmmmEMC> No IDC on this BB, but I have a 24" braided shield db25 cable
[18:09:05] <JymmmmEMC> The old Iomega paraport Zip drive jumper cables
[18:09:13] <Skullworks-PGAB> I was just refering to how the ribbon crimps into the plastic connector - looks just like an IDC on the back
[18:09:43] <JymmmmEMC> No IDC crimper here.
[18:09:47] <Skullworks-PGAB> IOmega - are they straight thru?
[18:09:57] <JymmmmEMC> Yeah =)
[18:10:04] <Skullworks-PGAB> hmmm
[18:10:21] <JymmmmEMC> you could use any DB25 cable with all pins
[18:10:42] <Skullworks-PGAB> * Skullworks-PGAB has a small pile of zip drives made obsolete by USB thumb drives
[18:11:09] <JymmmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: any internal IDE ?
[18:11:20] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah
[18:11:28] <JymmmmEMC> I just have SCSI and Paraport ones
[18:11:53] <JymmmmEMC> and Jazz drives too
[18:12:04] <skunkworks> I am using one of the zip drive cables to play with the pluto
[18:12:08] <tomp> there were 2 zip parallel cables , not same, there were 2 linux drivers ( also have a pile of drive and cartridges )
[18:12:17] <Skullworks-PGAB> want to talk crazy!
[18:13:22] <JymmmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: how many working IDE zip drives do you have?
[18:13:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> I had a 286/287 box with 13mb ram - booted to a floopy which loaded "GUEST" then ran W3.11 from the ZIP
[18:13:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> 3-4 I guest
[18:15:38] <JymmmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: Ah, gotcha. They're great for older machiens that DONT boot from USB
[18:15:52] <Skullworks-PGAB> I rarely buy 1 of anything - I suffer from obsessive complusive redundant backup paranioia.
[18:16:02] <jepler> GUEST ?
[18:16:10] <tomp> guest.exe
[18:16:25] <JymmmmEMC> wth is GUEST.EXE ?
[18:16:40] <tomp> find the drive & connect it to the M$ system
[18:16:55] <jepler> huh. http://www.bootdisk.com/usb.htm
[18:17:02] <JymmmmEMC> OH THAT! Oh gawd... LOL,, I remember now
[18:17:04] <Skullworks-PGAB> GUEST was a DOS exe which applied a scsi ident to a PPA device
[18:17:21] <JymmmmEMC> Yeah, for the paraport or SCSI version
[18:17:38] <JymmmmEMC> Not needed for the IDE version.
[18:17:48] <skunkworks> vaguely remember that
[18:18:05] <Skullworks-PGAB> (even many USB devices are still based on the SCSI command set)
[18:18:08] <jepler> I must have gotten out of DOS by then
[18:18:30] <JymmmmEMC> GUEST was part of the utilities that came with Zip drives for connecting from DOS/WIN3x via paraport or SCSI
[18:18:36] <Skullworks-PGAB> about Win95 - but before SR2
[18:20:09] <JymmmmEMC> I have a special multi-boot floppy image for zip, jazz, cdrom, ghost booting
[18:20:31] <JymmmmEMC> I remember that taking me three weeks to make it
[18:20:45] <Skullworks-PGAB> back then it could be worse than pulling teeth to get a CDrom working in DOS - every MFG had a unique driver file that had to be loaded with MSCDEX
[18:21:19] <Skullworks-PGAB> so I copied all the *cab file to a zip disk
[18:21:32] <JymmmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: Heh, Try on a IBM ThinkPad 755 series, only one 3rd level tech knew wth I was talking baout
[18:22:14] <JymmmmEMC> Gawd I still remember the number after all these years... 800-772-2227
[18:22:32] <skunkworks> * skunkworks didn't like any storage device where the head touched the media.
[18:22:47] <Skullworks-PGAB> boot to a floppy - Fdisk & format then copy the cabs to a W95_temp - then run the install from the HDD
[18:23:12] <skunkworks> just don't ask me about the dlt drives we use.
[18:23:32] <JymmmmEMC> Yep, that's what I always did, saved time when asking for the cdrom anytime you installed a printer.
[18:23:48] <Skullworks-PGAB> DLT cartridge = Improvised ice scraper
[18:24:05] <robin_sz> in july?
[18:24:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> ( and Jazz to )
[18:24:44] <JymmmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: We just used a paraport-scsi adapter for that. Thus my special boot fdd
[18:24:45] <Skullworks-PGAB> no - but there were always a bunch in the car or back of the truck
[18:25:03] <Skullworks-PGAB> ASPI rocks
[18:25:12] <JymmmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: BTW, Imoega media is lifetime guarnteed
[18:25:20] <JymmmmEMC> Iomega
[18:25:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> so - general question
[18:25:26] <robin_sz> * robin_sz laughs
[18:25:40] <Skullworks-PGAB> Iomega choles
[18:25:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> chokes
[18:26:06] <robin_sz> its there last-ditch attempt to try and convince people its of some use
[18:26:07] <alex_joni> robin_sz: meep
[18:26:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> * Skullworks-PGAB would hate to admit how much money he spent on IOMEGA junk
[18:26:24] <robin_sz> see 'click of death' for details
[18:26:44] <robin_sz> Skullworks-PGAB, to be fair, Zip drives were not too bad
[18:26:51] <JymmmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: You should have done what we did, just have an obscene IT toy budget =)
[18:26:56] <Skullworks-PGAB> I had close to 20 zips
[18:26:56] <robin_sz> Jazz was a total disaster
[18:27:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> only had 1 that did the click o death
[18:27:36] <Skullworks-PGAB> yes Jazz bombed bad
[18:27:40] <jmkasunich> "only" a 5% failure rate?
[18:27:43] <robin_sz> we bought about 20 or so, at then end of a year, I think 2 or 3 were still working
[18:27:54] <robin_sz> alex_joni, meep!
[18:27:58] <alex_joni> robin_sz: are we well?
[18:28:04] <robin_sz> we are
[18:28:08] <robin_sz> and you?
[18:28:19] <Skullworks-PGAB> my friend was an IT manager and they chose Jazz as there primary backup method
[18:28:27] <alex_joni> robin_sz: yeap, mostly
[18:28:33] <robin_sz> Skullworks-PGAB, heh, did they fire him?
[18:28:40] <robin_sz> alex_joni, mostly?
[18:29:00] <alex_joni> robin_sz: actually quite well
[18:29:05] <JymmmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: We just used them for transferfering a la ghost between machine upgrades
[18:29:08] <alex_joni> but too much going on lately
[18:29:22] <robin_sz> alex_joni, right, busy busy busy
[18:29:45] <alex_joni> robin_sz: yeah, but not only work
[18:29:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> no - he went in on weekends and burned about 600 CDR at 4x to make sure there was no data loss
[18:29:52] <robin_sz> alex_joni, ah yes, married.
[18:29:57] <alex_joni> that too
[18:30:00] <Skullworks-PGAB> took months
[18:30:14] <alex_joni> I'll be in athens this week for a couple of days (work stuff)
[18:30:27] <alex_joni> then next week there's a nice jazz festival I'll attend
[18:30:31] <robin_sz> alex_joni, might have our first robotic welding job ...
[18:30:34] <JymmmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: For backups, we just got a 12 tape dual head library =)
[18:30:55] <alex_joni> robin_sz: coo
[18:31:23] <robin_sz> alex_joni, some 200x100 box section, 5mm wall to be welded into squares ... about 300 of them 1.2m x 0.9m
[18:31:36] <alex_joni> nice
[18:31:46] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c <-- is the only one in #crazy channel for like 12 whole hours
[18:31:50] <robin_sz> ideal for a 2 station jig
[18:31:56] <alex_joni> chr0n1c: get out of there fast
[18:32:02] <JymmmmEMC> chr0n1c: that's crazy!
[18:32:08] <chr0n1c> lol
[18:32:31] <Skullworks-PGAB> no one else was crazy enough to join
[18:33:15] <chr0n1c> it was one of my random word channel experiments
[18:33:33] <JymmmmEMC> And thus why I have "We are not resposable for lost or damaged packages" http://www.kochvillefire.com/pics.cfm?pid=4
[18:33:43] <Skullworks-PGAB> OK - so - Does SCSI play well with an RT kernal or is that just a real bad idea.
[18:33:48] <JymmmmEMC> (They used to have the fire dept report up there too)
[18:34:01] <JymmmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: Bad idea, as is SATA
[18:34:24] <chr0n1c> the usb thumbstick was doing ok in realtime last night
[18:34:25] <jepler> I think a couple of cradek's machines are SCSI
[18:34:31] <chr0n1c> actually i think it loads into ram first
[18:34:48] <chr0n1c> scsi is faster than idea right?
[18:34:49] <jepler> I have an sata machine that passes the latency test just fine, haven't run anything with it though
[18:34:52] <jepler> bbl
[18:34:58] <chr0n1c> ide*
[18:35:04] <chr0n1c> cya jep
[18:35:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> chronic - try pulling the stick while running
[18:35:14] <alex_joni> chr0n1c: depends on the generation
[18:35:42] <alex_joni> a recent IDE is way faster than a 4-5 year old scsi
[18:35:42] <Skullworks-PGAB> SCSI can be uber fast
[18:35:49] <alex_joni> Skullworks-PGAB: I agree
[18:35:55] <chr0n1c> i have a pci scsi card here with twwo 2 gig drives on it
[18:35:57] <robin_sz> SCSI can be faster because it is multi-threaded
[18:36:03] <robin_sz> ide is not
[18:36:16] <alex_joni> Skullworks-PGAB: 15k RPM disks on U320 SCSI in RAID5
[18:36:28] <chr0n1c> a new ide raid setup could be smokin fast
[18:36:29] <alex_joni> can't beat that with IDE or sata atm
[18:36:34] <chr0n1c> 3-5 drives set on striping
[18:36:47] <alex_joni> chr0n1c: not necessarely
[18:37:02] <alex_joni> if you have onboard IDE you are limited to 2 channels
[18:37:08] <JymmmmEMC> fsck RAID5, RAID6!!!
[18:37:10] <robin_sz> for a single user workstation, SATA can be awesome, SCSI usually is faster for servers
[18:37:23] <alex_joni> so even if you have 2 drives on one channel, there's not that much gain
[18:37:45] <chr0n1c> i have only built boxes with sata, i have never actually used one for anything but loading the drivers and shipping them out
[18:37:45] <alex_joni> but if you have a RAID PCI card ($$) then you can make it fly
[18:37:54] <Skullworks-PGAB> * Skullworks-PGAB runs 4x 74gb cheetahs on 2 busses on a Adaptec 39160 in a 64bit slot to keep his dual Xeons fed with data.
[18:38:11] <chr0n1c> i have used ide and scsi though.. it's only milliseconds difference!
[18:38:16] <JymmmmEMC> Just dont get/use a CHEAP IDE/SATA RAID card - many of them are CPU based
[18:38:17] <Skullworks-PGAB> dual striped raids
[18:38:28] <alex_joni> JymmmmEMC: 6?
[18:38:54] <alex_joni> dual protection?
[18:38:55] <chr0n1c> ups and fedex wreck?
[18:39:01] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c ROFL
[18:39:12] <robin_sz> chr0n1c, for single file retrievals, yes, for a server workload, with many files being asked for all the time,. SCSI wins, its multithreading mean it grabs data as it goes past on its way to other data, IDE just tries for a single file at once, then does another etc
[18:39:20] <JymmmmEMC> chr0n1c: That's a REAL pic too
[18:39:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> no raid 0 - pure speed, reckless data storage
[18:40:00] <alex_joni> JymmmmEMC: wearing 2 condoms? :P
[18:40:00] <Skullworks-PGAB> use it for video editing or rendering
[18:40:17] <JymmmmEMC> alex_joni: http://www.acnc.com/04_01_06.html
[18:40:24] <alex_joni> JymmmmEMC: just kidding, I know..
[18:40:28] <alex_joni> sounds interesting
[18:40:37] <Skullworks-PGAB> after the work is done - results are stored elsewhere and the temp space is cleared
[18:40:47] <JymmmmEMC> alex_joni: Yeah, for that murphy law when two drives fail
[18:41:08] <alex_joni> some boards do raid 50
[18:41:57] <Skullworks-PGAB> actually Linux supports booting from a software RAID 5 - lots-o-fun setting it up though
[18:42:43] <chr0n1c> boot from a ide, use the raid for userland
[18:42:54] <Skullworks-PGAB> have to compile it into your kernal
[18:43:05] <chr0n1c> or /var
[18:43:05] <JymmmmEMC> Heh, at work, most of the servers just have two drives. The primary is just backed up to the secondary every night.
[18:43:09] <chr0n1c> *on a webserver
[18:43:49] <Skullworks-PGAB> chronic - thats what I do - also it allows the entire raid to be moved to another system without any data loss
[18:45:32] <JymmmmEMC> NAS baby!
[18:45:37] <chr0n1c> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5556707251.html <- awesome robot soccer article
[18:46:07] <Skullworks-PGAB> I won't run the full systems in summer - that room gets up to 140 F with all the raids on - but it heats the room to just comfortable in winter
[18:46:31] <chr0n1c> i move my main computer upstair in the winter
[18:46:49] <chr0n1c> my basement is almost untolerable without a heater on
[18:46:56] <Skullworks-PGAB> * Skullworks-PGAB has no room to move anything
[18:48:14] <chr0n1c> Despite having learned to play soccer in France, Aldebaran promises that its robots "won't headbutt!"
[18:48:41] <Skullworks-PGAB> hmm do they have a white flag?
[18:50:12] <Skullworks-PGAB> well - It must go de-forest the front yard - the grass is getting so tall the postman can't find the house, or his way back to the street...
[18:51:06] <Skullworks-PGAB> bbl
[18:53:00] <chr0n1c> http://www.zdnet.fr/partenaires/8-fi/0,3800004982,39367380,00.htm <- does anyone speak frech, COOL ROBOT VIDEO AT LINK!
[18:53:43] <chr0n1c> french even
[18:55:25] <tomp> no video:( just french type speech ( my mind imagine red striped shirt bert & lotsa handway-veeeng
[18:56:08] <chr0n1c> oh, i am watching it...
[18:56:19] <chr0n1c> i can only understand like every other word
[18:57:16] <chr0n1c> i can make out some french but some still baffles me, i know i couldn't speak it at all
[18:57:50] <tomp> j'ne parle Francais
[18:58:23] <chr0n1c> :(
[18:58:28] <chr0n1c> i was born in ohio!
[18:58:31] <chr0n1c> lol
[18:58:34] <chr0n1c> usa..
[18:58:53] <tomp> round on both ends and HI in the middle OhiO
[18:59:10] <chr0n1c> ohigho?
[18:59:51] <JymmmmEMC> guess better than oLOWo
[19:00:42] <chr0n1c> something about chicks speaking french gets me all warm n fuzzy
[19:02:44] <JymmmmEMC> chr0n1c: Even when it's tell you to fsck off in a language you dont understand?
[19:03:51] <chr0n1c> yes... even if it was in english depending on the chick
[19:04:03] <JymmmmEMC> lol
[19:05:15] <skunkworks> you guys need to watch 'Run Lola Run' (not french - but still)
[19:05:20] <JymmmmEMC> Has anyone used these type of strippers? Any good? http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Electrical+Shop&pid=00973655000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Electrical+Tools+%26+Accessories&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
[19:05:32] <JymmmmEMC> skunkworks: I have it, haven't watched it yet
[19:05:54] <chr0n1c> skunkworks: yes i have they are nice
[19:06:07] <chr0n1c> it cuts on top and bottom and rips the rest off
[19:06:22] <chr0n1c> it's quick and clean
[19:06:38] <JymmmmEMC> cuts top and bottom???
[19:06:49] <tomp> they work well, heavy, take up a lot of space in tool kit, not good if you travel with tools
[19:06:55] <skunkworks> I have a pair that the die set cuts all the way around
[19:06:54] <chr0n1c> the pair i had.. there was a little blade
[19:07:19] <chr0n1c> only nicked the insulation really
[19:07:39] <chr0n1c> top and bottom then the puling force finished the job
[19:08:40] <JymmmmEMC> Ideal brand or another brand?
[19:09:28] <chr0n1c> sooo.. i just burn the wires with my bic lighter and pinche the melted insulation with my finer and pull it off when i do ghetto projects like a stereo in a car or my ghetto mini mill
[19:10:24] <JymmmmEMC> remind me to hire you on the next wiring job I have
[19:10:42] <chr0n1c> sure JymmmmEMC
[19:11:08] <chr0n1c> lol, i actually do own strippers, they home pair is lost in my garage somewhere
[19:11:15] <chr0n1c> the home pair*
[19:11:39] <chr0n1c> and the lighter is always handy so hey why not!
[19:12:29] <tomp> i think thai women have the nicest voices http://www.learningthai.com/conversation/woman_06.swf
[19:13:02] <JymmmmEMC> tomp: Ask robin's friend about that.
[19:13:38] <tomp> ? there's a lot of weird in Thailand, but the people are nice
[19:13:46] <JymmmmEMC> Just ask robin
[19:14:02] <tomp> the weird is mostly farangs ( westerners )
[19:14:09] <chr0n1c> watch out for the little red peppers in your food
[19:14:44] <tomp> the little GREEN peppers are hotter, but better taste
[19:15:33] <chr0n1c> http://www.kochvillefire.com/pics.cfm?pid=31 <-- ;) from the same site as the ups& fedex wreck... cheerleaders!
[19:16:28] <alex_joni> * alex_joni drools over http://www.teng.co.uk/product-details.asp?prod_id=1324
[19:17:06] <chr0n1c> alex_joni: have you ever heard of snap-on toolboxes/tools?
[19:17:27] <chr0n1c> i saw a $15,000 toolbox
[19:17:33] <chr0n1c> in thier catalog
[19:17:34] <tomp> rigid tools ( best calendar in the world , every toolmaker needs one )
[19:17:58] <skunkworks> JymmmmEMC: http://cgi.ebay.com/Automatic-Wire-Stripper-Electrician-Hand-Tools_W0QQitemZ300128357086QQihZ020QQcategoryZ303QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[19:18:09] <skunkworks> similar to that - but older. No clue of the brand.
[19:18:20] <chr0n1c> i once had a poster with three hot bikini chicks touching each other on this huge japanese VMC
[19:18:41] <chr0n1c> i miss that poster
[19:19:03] <chr0n1c> i got it from the dayton trade show
[19:19:06] <tomp> http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/Calendar/index.htm
[19:19:47] <alex_joni> chr0n1c: I heard of snap-on
[19:19:51] <alex_joni> but this is about 3k$
[19:20:02] <tomp> snap-on & mac
[19:20:11] <alex_joni> lot more tool for the buck
[19:20:29] <tomp> they have trucks, they drive to your plant & take order/deliver stuff, show samples... nice
[19:20:42] <chr0n1c> oh yeah
[19:20:55] <chr0n1c> maybe it was the mac tools catalog that 15k box was in
[19:21:27] <chr0n1c> (they are both in the library/bathroom at work)
[19:21:42] <alex_joni> heh
[19:21:51] <alex_joni> * alex_joni bails for a while.. bbl
[19:22:19] <tomp> 5k$ http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=storage&item_ID=77150&group_ID=20013&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
[19:22:50] <tomp> just for the 'low boy'
[19:23:29] <chr0n1c> http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools.asp?tool=storage&Group_ID=3160&Group_name=Ball+Bearing+Drawer+Slides&Cat_ID=134049&Cat_NAME=Tool+Storage+Accessories&Sub_Cat_ID=134119&Sub_Cat_NAME=Drawer+Maintenance&store=snapon-store
[19:24:11] <chr0n1c> those will be some hardcore drawer slides
[19:24:29] <chr0n1c> if you get them from snapon, for a cnc machine
[19:24:37] <alex_joni> too much for me :)
[19:24:44] <anonimasu> heh..
[19:24:50] <alex_joni> 5k for the enclosure.. no thanks :P
[19:24:59] <tomp> yeh, make sure you load it from bottom to top, else i've seen 'em tip over loading the high open drawers first.
[19:25:02] <chr0n1c> they sell just the slides!
[19:25:28] <alex_joni> chr0n1c: so?
[19:25:50] <chr0n1c> alex_joni: so, um woopie!
[19:27:06] <alex_joni> chr0n1c: ?
[19:29:13] <chr0n1c> i was only saying it would be a good source for some sturdy ball bearing drawer slides to incoprorate into a cnc machine
[19:34:20] <anonimasu> um..
[19:36:22] <tomp> if you want a table base, look into Lista cabinets, if you want drawer slides as linear elements for a cnc machine... i dunno, there are things 'like' drawer slides that are better suited.
[19:38:58] <jepler> is there any use of extremely fine microstepping (e.g., 12800 microsteps) in CNC applications?
[19:39:39] <chr0n1c> edm?
[19:42:23] <jepler> hm yeah
[19:43:22] <alex_joni> 12800 microsteps?
[19:43:38] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wonders how that motor can physically move like that
[19:44:53] <jepler> oh my mistake -- I think it's 1/64 microstepping, 12800 per revolution
[19:45:18] <tomp> when small motion is important... maybe lens grinding, polishing, lapping, laser adjustment ( may be easier to use piezo actuator or analog actuator with analog position feedback ) oh... never mind
[19:46:00] <alex_joni> jepler: 64 microsteps sounds more sane
[19:46:54] <tomp> i use 1/128 on my emc1 stepper. it went to 4096 and i just didnt see/hear any benefit
[19:47:03] <anonimasu> tomp: you should talk to that guy that wants to do lens grinding
[19:47:06] <chr0n1c> they limit my upload on my www ftp server, it takes forever to upload pretty cnc pictures :(
[19:47:13] <anonimasu> :)
[19:47:24] <anonimasu> *forgot the handle of him*
[19:47:36] <tomp> i remember, it was lathe work too
[19:47:39] <anonimasu> yeah..
[19:47:48] <chr0n1c> i always figured lenses were molded
[19:47:58] <tomp> not the 1st one :)
[19:48:03] <anonimasu> they arent..
[19:48:09] <anonimasu> :)
[19:48:16] <jepler> tomp: 1/128? must need a high step rate, or be limited to low speeds
[19:48:15] <anonimasu> though some kinds are..
[19:48:26] <anonimasu> jepler: edm..
[19:48:43] <tomp> low speed, .00005" step size
[19:48:51] <jepler> oh ok
[19:48:51] <anonimasu> tomp: he had problems with the fact that the servo bouncing between encoder counts would make marks in the glass..
[19:49:41] <tomp> yeh, something akin to aliasing in some digital contorl, need to be a bit analog so they dont jerk between 1 unit of error
[19:50:17] <anonimasu> tomp: he were interested in steppers as they dont do that..
[19:50:24] <chr0n1c> is that what the following error settings are for? or the debouncing thing?
[19:50:29] <anonimasu> no neither..
[19:50:43] <chr0n1c> *i haven't got that far into it
[19:50:45] <anonimasu> chr0n1c: servos do bounce between encoder counts to hold position...
[19:50:52] <tomp> maybe he just needed higher rez encoders/smaller steps than what can make a mark
[19:50:54] <anonimasu> yep
[19:51:06] <anonimasu> tomp: they have 500 000cpr encoders..
[19:51:11] <chr0n1c> lots of gearing down might help?
[19:51:19] <anonimasu> chr0n1c: he couldnt gear either because of backslash..
[19:51:23] <anonimasu> :)
[19:51:31] <jepler> just add enough backlash that 1 count doesn't actually move the tool at all
[19:51:47] <alex_joni> jepler: if the encoder is on the motor
[19:51:50] <anonimasu> !l
[19:51:56] <anonimasu> logger_emc: bookmark
[19:51:56] <anonimasu> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-07-08.txt
[19:53:27] <anonimasu> it's no use I cant remember he's name
[19:53:34] <alex_joni> who's?
[19:53:46] <anonimasu> the guy that wanted to use dual encoders..
[19:53:58] <alex_joni> endoders
[19:54:00] <alex_joni> :P
[19:54:15] <anonimasu> toastydeath..
[19:54:19] <anonimasu> I think..
[20:15:15] <JymmmmEMC> Question... What do you think is the "typical" cable length for most folks from the motors to the controller box? (Include running the cable thru any eChain, etc)
[20:16:19] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c is using 6 foot cat5 cables with 2" of the ends chopped off, lol
[20:16:44] <JymmmmEMC> CAT5 or CAT5e is NOT shielded. CAT6 is, but...
[20:16:53] <JymmmmEMC> err, can be
[20:17:01] <chr0n1c> mine isn't
[20:17:10] <chr0n1c> and my machine is only a toy
[20:17:21] <chr0n1c> so if it gets feedback, it will jsut have to be for now
[20:17:24] <robin_sz> mmmm ... Old Speckled Hen
[20:17:28] <JymmmmEMC> ew
[20:17:59] <robin_sz> 6m?
[20:18:04] <JymmmmEMC> Hey bitch, err I mean Robin... what ya think of Speakon connectors?
[20:18:19] <robin_sz> They are great, for their purpose
[20:18:22] <alex_joni> JymmmmEMC: I have up to 40m on my robots
[20:18:27] <JymmmmEMC> http://cgi.ebay.com/2-HEAVY-DUTY-50FT-SPEAKON-SPEAKER-CABLES-4-WIRE-X37115_W0QQitemZ270139384686QQihZ017QQcategoryZ41462QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
[20:18:29] <alex_joni> but those are 600V servos
[20:18:31] <JymmmmEMC> alex_joni: you dont count =)
[20:18:43] <robin_sz> JymmmmEMC, what do you intend to use Speakons for?
[20:18:48] <alex_joni> JymmmmEMC: cable is about 1" in diameter
[20:19:02] <JymmmmEMC> I figure I can cut those cables in half and connect to my motors
[20:19:13] <JymmmmEMC> alex_joni: Like I said, you don't count =)
[20:19:16] <robin_sz> they'd be OK for motors
[20:19:39] <JymmmmEMC> I like the twist-locking feature of the connectors
[20:20:13] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[20:20:18] <robin_sz> not a bad connector at all
[20:20:42] <robin_sz> wired up those new drivers and PSU yet JymmmmEMC
[20:20:43] <robin_sz> ???
[20:21:09] <JymmmmEMC> I'm using 4pin CB mic connectors, which is fine, nice locking ring on them, but thought the pre-fabed cabling would be nice.
[20:21:19] <robin_sz> yeuuww.
[20:21:21] <robin_sz> nasty
[20:21:44] <JymmmmEMC> robin_sz: What, they do work nice.
[20:21:59] <alex_joni> good night all
[20:22:08] <chr0n1c> later joni
[20:22:12] <JymmmmEMC> alex_joni: see ya in a few hours
[20:22:20] <alex_joni> chr0n1c: that's my last name :)
[20:22:25] <alex_joni> JymmmmEMC: sure things
[20:22:28] <robin_sz> they are a shitty little connector, suitable for shitty little projects. if you have to use a connector (and its better not to, if you can) then the Speakons are a much better option
[20:22:28] <alex_joni> s/s//
[20:22:34] <robin_sz> night alex_joni
[20:22:48] <chr0n1c> ...people call me shaner, my last name because there is 5000 jason's
[20:22:49] <chr0n1c> ;)
[20:22:56] <JymmmmEMC> robin_sz: they've been around for 20+ years
[20:23:05] <robin_sz> JymmmmEMC, so have 1/4" jacks
[20:23:23] <robin_sz> things progress.
[20:23:27] <JymmmmEMC> robin_sz: but they don't lock in place like the mic connectors do
[20:23:51] <robin_sz> yes they do
[20:24:05] <JymmmmEMC> They only thing I DONT see on the speakon's are the shield connections
[20:24:09] <robin_sz> you ever used a speakon?
[20:24:13] <JymmmmEMC> 1/4" jacks dont lock
[20:24:19] <robin_sz> speakons do
[20:24:40] <JymmmmEMC> Yeah, I know the speakon do, that's why I'm looking at them
[20:24:44] <robin_sz> ffs, I KNOW 1/4 jacks dont lock, they are shite ... they have also been around for 20 years ...
[20:25:00] <JymmmmEMC> but what I dont see is the shield connection. to gnd it
[20:25:07] <robin_sz> there isnt one
[20:25:11] <robin_sz> its 4 pole
[20:25:29] <chr0n1c> midi cables might be easy to use, but they do not lock
[20:25:42] <chr0n1c> they are shielded (some)
[20:25:44] <robin_sz> wouldnt have the current rating on a midi
[20:25:58] <chr0n1c> oh, i was thinking small motors like my 23's
[20:26:13] <JymmmmEMC> http://cgi.ebay.com/6-Panel-Mount-4-pin-Speakon-connectors-Fits-Neutric-X98_W0QQitemZ270139384857QQihZ017QQcategoryZ32838QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
[20:26:30] <JymmmmEMC> 15K+ feedback, 100%
[20:27:06] <chr0n1c> <- closed ebay store, tired of paying them fees
[20:27:26] <robin_sz> buy them
[20:27:45] <robin_sz> wired up those new drivers and PSU yet JymmmmEMC ????
[20:28:09] <JymmmmEMC> I told ya days ago, go check the logs.
[20:28:21] <robin_sz> paste em for me
[20:28:28] <JymmmmEMC> Nu uh
[20:28:38] <robin_sz> I'll take that as a "not yet" then
[20:28:53] <robin_sz> * robin_sz suspects JymmmmEMC is going to try for 3
[20:29:30] <robin_sz> 2 is pretty impressive, 3 will probably be a record
[20:29:58] <JymmmmEMC> Hmmm, maybe I'll hit a music store before hand, I like to see/touch/feel somethign before buying.
[20:30:17] <robin_sz> they are pretty chunky, nice solif locking to them
[20:30:37] <JymmmmEMC> what about the strin of the hanging weight of the cbale on the connector?
[20:30:39] <robin_sz> with steppers, its very important on most drives that they do not come disconnected
[20:30:47] <JymmmmEMC> strain
[20:31:01] <robin_sz> so a really solid connector is important, speakons are solid
[20:31:03] <robin_sz> strain releif?
[20:31:08] <robin_sz> its excellent on speakons
[20:31:17] <skunkworks> what are the 1/4 phono jacks for?
[20:31:21] <JymmmmEMC> no, just the weight of the cbale putting stress on the connector
[20:31:23] <robin_sz> remember, these are designed to be used in the music industry
[20:31:24] <chr0n1c> wow you guys sure do get fancy with all this cabling
[20:31:52] <robin_sz> chr0n1c, no, the rest of us just get on and do it ... JymmmmEMC likes to take a year or two ;)
[20:31:53] <JymmmmEMC> chr0n1c: Do you realize how many have issues just on using cheap cable connectors alone?
[20:32:07] <robin_sz> connectors are the no 1 source of fialure in most things
[20:32:13] <robin_sz> hes right there
[20:32:47] <chr0n1c> i guess not everyone has taken EE classes, i forget sometimes
[20:33:07] <robin_sz> JymmmmEMC, rest assured, those speakons are tough, they are desinged to (and do) get used on stage speakers, people trip over cabling, speaker get hauled by cables etc, they are tough
[20:33:11] <JymmmmEMC> chr0n1c: I never have, but I've dealt enough with EMI/RFI over the decades
[20:33:35] <robin_sz> they do a mains speakon too
[20:33:53] <JymmmmEMC> cross-talk being the #1 failure on TOW missile (don't ask how I know)
[20:33:56] <robin_sz> * robin_sz remebers in horror the XLR mains connectors
[20:34:42] <robin_sz> hey, while im on the subject of XLR connectors ...
[20:34:49] <chr0n1c> i can see JymmmmEMC using the undersea communication cabling and connectors to hookup his machine, needing 4 full grown men to twist the connector lock in place
[20:34:53] <robin_sz> anyone use them for audio here?
[20:35:20] <JymmmmEMC> chr0n1c: Sorry, no fiber to the motors, just to the desktop.
[20:35:28] <robin_sz> chr0n1c, you can see him hooking it up? coo. you can see way further into the future than me :)
[20:35:41] <skunkworks> one issue with the 1/4 audio jacks --- they short out as your inserting them..
[20:35:41] <JymmmmEMC> Oh, anyone interested in 260m of SC fiber optic cable?
[20:35:49] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c rofl
[20:35:56] <robin_sz> skunkworks, its OK, no one is considering using them ...
[20:35:57] <JymmmmEMC> I'm not kidding
[20:36:15] <skunkworks> ah
[20:36:44] <chr0n1c> i have some fiber optics scraps around here from light sensors on some test fixtures i helped build
[20:36:49] <chr0n1c> it's fun stuff to play with
[20:37:07] <skunkworks> we have 5 miles of fiber - don't know what flavor.
[20:37:11] <JymmmmEMC> chr0n1c: these are from a network simulation box
[20:37:20] <skunkworks> where going to use it between buildings.
[20:37:33] <robin_sz> skunkworks, JymmmmEMC said he was using 4 pin CB mic connectors .. and offered that "theyd been around for 20+ years" as a defense .. I said "so have 1/4" jacks" ... the unsaid follow up being "but thats no excuse for using them"
[20:37:57] <skunkworks> ah :)
[20:38:09] <robin_sz> * robin_sz pours more beer
[20:38:16] <JymmmmEMC> robin_sz: But you know damn well, the'yll do the job, even if you may not like them.
[20:38:30] <chr0n1c> i twisted my cables to the morot wires nice and tight then taped them up, works great!
[20:38:35] <chr0n1c> motor wires*
[20:38:42] <chr0n1c> damn i hate typos
[20:38:53] <robin_sz> JymmmmEMC, no, I know dam wel they are crap and might have a momentary open circuit, killing your drives
[20:38:57] <chr0n1c> typos can turn a perfectly good sentence into jibbersih
[20:39:11] <chr0n1c> jibberish even
[20:39:13] <robin_sz> chr0n1c, solid connections are beeter than any plug and socket
[20:39:25] <robin_sz> beeter?
[20:39:27] <skunkworks> * skunkworks agrees
[20:39:28] <JymmmmEMC> robin_sz: I have NEVER seen that occure, even when abused like hell.
[20:39:43] <robin_sz> JymmmmEMC, question for you ...
[20:39:58] <robin_sz> have you used them on steppers before?
[20:40:08] <JymmmmEMC> yep
[20:40:13] <robin_sz> how long?
[20:40:21] <JymmmmEMC> duration or length?
[20:40:25] <robin_sz> duration
[20:40:30] <chr0n1c> we used to use some connectors liek cb mic connectors, but they had a lot more pins.
[20:40:30] <JymmmmEMC> 18months
[20:40:39] <robin_sz> ok
[20:40:56] <robin_sz> well, I'd still rate speakons way ahead
[20:41:39] <JymmmmEMC> robin_sz: oh no, I *DO* understnad the rody aspect of cable abuse.... Just logistics
[20:42:06] <JymmmmEMC> Just can hit RatShit on a sunday is all if ever needed.
[20:43:24] <chr0n1c> so i found teach yourself java in 21 days last night.. should i read it?
[20:43:40] <JymmmmEMC> chr0n1c: No. way too old
[20:43:54] <JymmmmEMC> you want the Cd for it?
[20:43:59] <chr0n1c> * i also found win2k msce cert book, win98 msce book, winxp msce cert book
[20:44:06] <chr0n1c> it came with the cd
[20:44:26] <chr0n1c> all of them, i was like damn
[20:44:56] <chr0n1c> a few weks ago i got.. teach yourself unix, teach your self c++
[20:44:59] <JymmmmEMC> chr0n1c: CCNA or nothing, hell even I have my MCP (got it for free) and pretty much worthless.
[20:46:54] <chr0n1c> OH, i found a vampire encyclopedia! that will come in handy!
[20:47:22] <chr0n1c> and a wireless ps2 guitar hero controller
[20:47:39] <chr0n1c> i should rig that up to be my CNC control pendant
[20:47:49] <JymmmmEMC> chr0n1c: Ya right... you need to find a Dead Zombie encyclopedia. they WILL take over the world, but a shotgun blast to the head should slow em down.
[20:48:08] <chr0n1c> dude! you can jsut cut off a zombies head and kill them
[20:48:25] <JymmmmEMC> They are already dead,
[20:48:39] <JymmmmEMC> I said DEAD Zombie, not zombie
[20:48:49] <chr0n1c> oh, my bad
[20:48:58] <JymmmmEMC> How can you kill something that's already dead???
[20:49:23] <JymmmmEMC> Eeeeesh, kids these days... dont know crap about dead zombies *sigh*
[20:49:25] <chr0n1c> well, i know for a fact you can merely cut off a REGULAR zombies head if you want to kill them
[20:49:45] <chr0n1c> i've played resident evil, i know, man.
[20:50:03] <JymmmmEMC> That's so 1800's, they've evolved... WHEN DEAD ZOMBIES ATTACK!
[20:53:53] <JymmmmEMC> I have a mains question in respect to earth ground.... When you are missing earth ground, why is it you get shocked (touching ground barefoot - completing the circuit)? I mean, it's defiantely AC, but where's it coming from that would normally be "grounded".
[20:54:39] <chr0n1c> tip: don't touch live mains wires
[20:55:03] <JymmmmEMC> In this case, PC CRT and the PC itself. If I touch the case, I get shocked.
[20:55:24] <JymmmmEMC> I'm barefoot at the time.
[20:58:03] <skunkworks> your not grounded
[20:58:14] <skunkworks> and your floor isn't metal
[20:59:24] <skunkworks> sounds like your good a building a charge ;)
[21:07:17] <robin_sz> that was fun .. indoor abseiling for the kids :)
[21:08:18] <robin_sz> JymmmmEMC, many PC cases are not grounded, same as TVs
[21:08:40] <robin_sz> they sit coonected to mid-rail by a 1M resistor
[21:08:57] <robin_sz> * robin_sz knows of a guy who got killed by that
[21:09:22] <robin_sz> VCR record bank ... 200 VCRs in //
[21:09:56] <robin_sz> unplugged the looped RF cable ... got 200 1M resistors in // to half rectified mains ...
[21:09:57] <robin_sz> zap :(
[21:10:16] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c has his two computer cases grounded with really long wires togeter with his 3 channel audio mixer and amplifier and turntable
[21:10:33] <robin_sz> whats a turntable?
[21:10:45] <robin_sz> something for model trains?
[21:10:54] <chr0n1c> a stanton dj turntable (aKa: record player)
[21:11:06] <robin_sz> ah, gramaphone
[21:11:20] <chr0n1c> yes
[21:11:27] <robin_sz> electric or wind up?
[21:11:48] <chr0n1c> it's a brushless dc servo motor direct drive
[21:12:05] <robin_sz> with the big brass horn on top?
[21:12:21] <chr0n1c> 33/45/78 forward and reverse, +/_ 12% speed with quartz lock pitch matching
[21:12:51] <chr0n1c> it has a pro dj/scratching needle in it on it with a balanced tone arm
[21:13:25] <robin_sz> * robin_sz has technics SL1200s .. same sort of thing, brushless DC servos, quartc lock,. external PSU, SME arms etc
[21:14:00] <chr0n1c> do you do much scratching robin_sz?
[21:14:02] <robin_sz> sounds shit, but, its vinyl, what do you expect?
[21:14:12] <robin_sz> no, I listen to "music"
[21:14:36] <skunkworks> the audiopile at work says you can't get descent speed regulation out of a servo.. Needs to be belt driven.
[21:14:42] <chr0n1c> ohh, usually when someone has more than one turntable they are into scratching
[21:15:06] <robin_sz> skunkworks, great, send him over to me, I have a Garrard 301 I want to sell him :)
[21:15:15] <skunkworks> but hei is a bit of a freak.. ;)
[21:15:15] <skunkworks> he
[21:15:37] <robin_sz> skunkworks, we need people like him ...
[21:15:44] <robin_sz> to selll crazy products to :)
[21:15:50] <robin_sz> like gold plated mains plugs
[21:16:00] <skunkworks> All the speaker cables are the size of welding cable.. All on standoffs to keep them off the floor
[21:16:07] <chr0n1c> i don't use my turntable for actual listening of music (sort of sometimes) mainly for sampling/scratching
[21:16:10] <robin_sz> single crystal oxygen free cables etc
[21:16:13] <skunkworks> probably
[21:16:45] <skunkworks> I remember him talking about cables like that.. or under a vaccumm.. I kinda fuzz out when he talks about it.
[21:16:47] <robin_sz> skunkworks, great ... does he want to buy my garrard 301?
[21:16:55] <skunkworks> I could ask.
[21:17:25] <skunkworks> his turn table is on air a air cushon
[21:18:01] <robin_sz> skunkworks, its shit, but these audio idiots pay stupid money for them
[21:18:02] <chr0n1c> geez... it's a record, if you want precision you need a cd with lasers or soemthing
[21:18:05] <robin_sz> like 3k USD +
[21:18:49] <skunkworks> according to him - cd's suck - sacd's(sp) are better.
[21:18:57] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c still plans on building a cnc record cutting machine someday
[21:19:28] <skunkworks> He has to burn in all of his cables...
[21:19:31] <robin_sz> http://cgi.ebay.com/Turntable-Garrard-301-Schedule-1-Serial-No-1138_W0QQitemZ290137194135QQihZ019QQcategoryZ3283QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[21:19:35] <skunkworks> 'burn i'
[21:19:40] <skunkworks> jeeze
[21:19:45] <skunkworks> 'burn in'
[21:19:44] <robin_sz> nutter
[21:20:03] <robin_sz> but thatys OK, they are usually easily parted from their cash ...
[21:20:07] <robin_sz> more it costs the better
[21:20:31] <skunkworks> yes
[21:20:48] <skunkworks> but there has to be a lot of info online.. lots of reviews.
[21:20:50] <robin_sz> ive heard "hi fi" gear .. and put it up agaisnt proper gear ...
[21:21:02] <robin_sz> remember I was an engineer with the BBC
[21:21:17] <chr0n1c> my favorite is gold plated rca cables :) they are sort of extravagant
[21:21:26] <robin_sz> speakers are instruments, every one sounds different
[21:21:38] <robin_sz> and rooms affect the sound way more than any amp or cable
[21:21:54] <robin_sz> and we had some NICE monitor rigs :)
[21:22:02] <robin_sz> liek 7kw in a 20x20 room
[21:22:11] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c needs a pa amp for the basement
[21:22:11] <skunkworks> oh - he has a audio meter - and graphs it in some excel program
[21:22:41] <robin_sz> the scary thing about big monitor rigs os how loud thye go ...
[21:22:46] <robin_sz> but they dont sound loud
[21:22:53] <robin_sz> becuase there is little distortion
[21:27:15] <robin_sz> just been doing indoor abseiling with the kids again :)
[21:27:20] <robin_sz> thay love it
[21:32:44] <chr0n1c> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abseiling
[21:32:52] <chr0n1c> *for anyone who didn't know (like me)
[21:39:12] <robin_sz> we live in a covnerted barn, there is a high area in the entrance, with wooden beams high in the ceiling, put a sling over them, get a rope and you are away
[21:43:56] <tomp> maybe this has been fixed recently. the comp 'comp-with-equal' wouldnt compile, an extra parens, heres a version that will compile. http://pastebin.ca/609417
[21:44:38] <tomp> oh, also used the word 'or' rather than ||
[21:47:14] <chr0n1c> OH NO! my wireless laser mouse is going dead, time to recharge it and take a nap!
[21:48:30] <tomp> abseiling = rappeling. fun. the caving club at UniTexas Austin took you out to bee cave road, and had you go down a 20ft sheer before they'd talk about letting you in the club ( some of the best caves in texas/mexico went straight down :)
[21:54:36] <chr0n1c> there is some awesome caves in ohio