#emc | Logs for 2007-06-29

[00:39:05] <Ziegler> there a quick and dirty way to scale some code down by percentage?
[00:39:19] <Ziegler> say... a square... 10x10 inch
[00:39:29] <Ziegler> make it 10% less than that
[00:39:43] <Ziegler> (my code is much longer than a simple square)
[00:42:18] <toastydeath> there's a scale mode
[00:42:19] <toastydeath> on mills
[00:42:21] <toastydeath> erm?
[00:42:25] <toastydeath> g50 i think?
[00:42:28] <toastydeath> i don't know if emc supports it
[00:42:44] <toastydeath> i don't think emc differentiates lathe/mill g-code
[00:44:03] <petev> how dirty? You can always change your scale info in the INI file
[00:44:31] <Ziegler> hmmm
[00:44:47] <petev> just change UNITS
[00:44:48] <Ziegler> that may do... a g code sounds more appealing if it is possible
[01:01:02] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[01:05:21] <Ziegler> anyone else on scaling gcode?
[01:11:25] <Ziegler> I see some mention to it: http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg02028.html
[01:13:49] <Ziegler> seems like the ini is the quickest and easist method for changing gcode scale
[01:16:44] <Ziegler> would "output scale" do it?
[01:16:58] <Ziegler> change it from "1" to "0.9" ?
[01:17:41] <toastydeath> i dunno?
[01:17:46] <toastydeath> i have never used emc
[01:17:51] <toastydeath> just fanuc and haas controls
[01:17:55] <toastydeath> also one mitsubishi
[01:18:20] <Ziegler> good to know it on fanuc... I am getting ready to learn them
[01:18:56] <toastydeath> it is pretty much the same across all the controls
[01:19:03] <toastydeath> just the specific option words they use change
[02:33:20] <Skullworks-PGAB> How involved is is to add a G code to the interpreter?
[02:34:16] <Skullworks-PGAB> Basically copy/modify the G33.1 as G84.1
[02:35:43] <Skullworks-PGAB> such that it be subject to G98/G99 settings and use an "R" value and be modal canceled by G0 or G80.
[03:39:49] <Guest650> Guest650 is now known as skunkworks_
[03:46:34] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[04:41:55] <JymmmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: what, you just making up gcode now?
[04:44:08] <toastydeath> what is g33.1
[05:52:46] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/extensions/emcmodule.cc: fix 2-second pauses when using multiple guis
[05:56:26] <Skullworks-PGAB> G33/G33.1 is the code they assigned for spindle synced movement
[05:58:14] <Skullworks-PGAB> It is in the Online docs
[05:59:54] <toastydeath> o
[06:00:59] <Skullworks-PGAB> G33 is for a single pass lathe treading
[06:01:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> G33.1 was what was used to do the rigid tapping
[06:02:13] <Skullworks-PGAB> they did incorp the G33 into the multi pass G76 for lathe threading
[06:03:03] <Skullworks-PGAB> Docs don't state if G33.1 is a one shot or modal function/
[06:05:05] <Skullworks-PGAB> And the way G33.1 works does not have any spindle deceleration comp
[06:07:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> so tapping a blind hole the spindle reaches the Z target depth, then reverses... so tap is still infeeding as spindle stops - but will stop faster due to cut resistance.
[06:08:42] <Skullworks-PGAB> but run the cycle again and tap will cut deeper due to lack of cut resistance to help slow spindle.
[06:09:30] <Skullworks-PGAB> small taps and fine pitch it won't be an issue
[06:10:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> but someone trying to use a 7/16-14 @ 1000rpm in a blind hole might get a surprise
[06:12:10] <Skullworks-PGAB> the way they made G33.1 is simple elegence - it does not require a speed controlled spindle - just an encoder with index channel
[06:15:36] <Skullworks-PGAB> It will take caution and a bit of a machine and material learning curve to master but it will work with simple DIY type applications.
[06:15:37] <JymmmmEMC> who is "they" ?
[06:15:55] <Skullworks-PGAB> They are the Developers
[06:16:18] <JymmmmEMC> emc dev's are making up gcodes?!
[06:16:37] <Skullworks-PGAB> had to call it something
[06:17:16] <Skullworks-PGAB> because it does not behave like any existing code
[06:17:16] <JymmmmEMC> how cna they just "MAKE UP" gcodes, they aren't dev CAM
[06:17:47] <JymmmmEMC> are you suppose to write the machine by hand with this?
[06:17:54] <JymmmmEMC> ^code
[06:18:06] <Skullworks-PGAB> at the moment
[06:18:18] <JymmmmEMC> very strange
[06:19:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> thats why I made the suggestion to make the G84.1 version match existing G84 rigid tapping usage.
[06:19:41] <Skullworks-PGAB> G84 is not specifically rigid tapping
[06:20:16] <Skullworks-PGAB> but for EMC use G84.1 could be the rigid version
[06:21:00] <Skullworks-PGAB> G84 could work with a floating tapping holder
[06:22:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> G84.1 would be easy to tune CAM post output for
[06:26:51] <Skullworks-PGAB> Hand writing Gcode for holes is quick easy and much cleaner if done by hand.
[06:28:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> contouring is where CAM is the great blessing - cude that if your doing 3D profiling.
[06:28:14] <Skullworks-PGAB> cube
[06:30:48] <ds2> CAM systems can be configured via the post processor
[06:32:36] <Skullworks-PGAB> not all POSTs support all types of functions
[06:34:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> case in point - EMC has this strange requirement that an X or Y value be on any command line for an ARC
[06:36:48] <Skullworks-PGAB> However the POST I use for Kitamura, Mori Seiki, Haas, and Okuma will output a command of J-1. for a 360 deg arc starting and ending at 12 o'clock.
[06:37:24] <Skullworks-PGAB> since the X and Y values for the endpoints do not change
[06:37:59] <Skullworks-PGAB> according to the PDF file this is not allowed under EMC.
[06:40:14] <Skullworks-PGAB> I suspect that that is an old requirement - but need to get a sim box up and running for testing.
[06:42:10] <alex_joni> morning all
[07:42:57] <JymmmmEMC> mornin alex
[07:45:32] <JymmmmEMC> Skullworks-PGAB: I mean, that CNC has been around a long time, and the "big boys" out there have a lot of exp behind them. Couldn't any gcode be adoptd from them?
[07:45:48] <JymmmmEMC> no wheel inventing I mean
[08:14:48] <sebjames> Hello all. I'm looking at homing right now. My Y axis should be straightforward enough, as it is just like the axis on any mill, with a home switch plus limit switches at each end of the range of travel.
[08:15:17] <sebjames> My X axis on the other hand is a little different. You _have_ to home it with each job.
[08:16:21] <sebjames> And there is no limit to how fair it travels - if you put a 4 metre length of steel, then your range is 0 to 4m. If you put a 6 metre piece of plate in, then 0 to 6m.
[08:30:38] <sebjames> Is there an M or G code to trigger the homing sequence?
[09:15:11] <sebjames> Hi anonimasu
[09:17:40] <sebjames> I need a switch which is normally open, and which requires 2 logic inputs; one high and one low in order to close the output...
[09:17:54] <sebjames> It's going to take forever to search RS... :(
[09:22:34] <sebjames> Basically a relay with two inputs and a built in xor gate. Be nice if one existed, but I suspect that will not be the case.
[11:14:59] <anonimasu> sebjames: well, why not build it with logic gates?
[11:15:00] <anonimasu> sebjames: what's it for?
[11:16:37] <sebjames> anonimasu: That's the conclusion I came to.
[11:16:48] <sebjames> I just ordered up some xor gates.
[11:18:05] <sebjames> I'm going to use it to enable the outputs from my I/O board. When you switch the 5i20 Mesa board on, the outputs are all in a state which can drive an optoisolator, so I need to have the 5i20 drive two outputs to switch a relay which will supply 24V to the rest of the 5i20 driven outputs
[11:19:21] <sebjames> That means if I lose power momentarily to the PC, when it comes back on, it will disable all the outputs to the machine, thereby ensuring that the drill motor doesn't short out, and the oxygen, acetylene, cutting oxygen and torch ignition don't all come on at the same time!
[11:21:24] <anonimasu> hm, ok
[11:32:30] <jepler> sebjames: there is no gcode to run the homing sequence.
[11:35:07] <archivist> I would be thinking along the lines of probing for material length
[11:35:23] <anonimasu> does anyone have a good design for a probe?
[11:35:38] <sebjames> jepler: Ok. Well, I need to create one then as a user M code.
[11:35:59] <sebjames> I think
[11:36:42] <sebjames> archivist: Probing for material length?
[11:37:33] <archivist> just an idea
[11:40:37] <jepler> sebjames: homing cannot be run while in "auto" mode, so you cannot run it as one step of the program without modifying emc itself.
[11:44:32] <sebjames> jepler: I think I may have to do that. With each new job we have to find the end of the plate - that becomes the X axis home. Then we run the program to start drilling and cutting the plate. Now, the operator _could_ press the home button, then load the program, but it would be way neater for the homing process to be carried out at the start of each program, and less prone to error, too.
[11:50:59] <jepler> it might be easier to modify the GUI so that the "run" button performs a sequence of operations that includes "home"
[11:51:12] <jepler> than to change emc so that you can home during auto mode
[12:24:42] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/drivers.lyx:
[12:24:42] <CIA-8> * watchdog timer tristates pluto outputs after 6.5ms without communication from PC
[12:24:42] <CIA-8> * quadrature encoder improvements: up to 8191 counts per polling cycle, no limit on counts per revolution when index pulse is used
[12:24:40] <CIA-8> * fix several 'bugs' which caused too many chip resources to be used
[12:24:40] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo.comp:
[12:24:42] <CIA-8> * watchdog timer tristates pluto outputs after 6.5ms without communication from PC
[12:24:44] <CIA-8> * quadrature encoder improvements: up to 8191 counts per polling cycle, no limit on counts per revolution when index pulse is used
[12:24:47] <CIA-8> * fix several 'bugs' which caused too many chip resources to be used
[12:24:49] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo_firmware/ (6 files):
[12:24:51] <CIA-8> * watchdog timer tristates pluto outputs after 6.5ms without communication from PC
[12:24:59] <jepler> skunkworks: Guest406: you're elected to test these changes and let me know what I broke
[12:25:08] <Guest406> wooo WHooo - Cool
[12:25:10] <jepler> but now I have to scurry off to my office and work on something much less interesting all day
[12:25:37] <CIA-8> * quadrature encoder improvements: up to 8191 counts per polling cycle, no limit on counts per revolution when index pulse is used
[12:25:37] <CIA-8> * fix several 'bugs' which caused too many chip resources to be used
[12:26:00] <CIA-8> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (breezy) realtime (2.6.12-magma) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot2_log.txt
[12:26:53] <Guest406> Guest406 is now known as skunkworks_
[12:27:22] <CIA-8> 03compile-farm 07BDI-4.51 ( * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot6_log.txt
[12:27:33] <skunkworks_> I didin't touch it..
[12:30:11] <archivist> oh yes you did
[12:30:31] <skunkworks_> no - really.. I didn't
[12:30:34] <skunkworks_> ;)
[12:36:05] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/pluto_servo.comp: fix 'labs' error on realtime systems
[12:37:11] <CIA-8> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (breezy) realtime (2.6.12-magma) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[12:38:31] <CIA-8> 03compile-farm 07BDI-4.51 ( * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[12:43:09] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ chears from the cheap seats.
[12:43:14] <skunkworks_> cheers
[12:52:15] <skunkworks_> no limit on counts per revolution when index pulse is used?
[12:52:18] <skunkworks_> impressive
[12:55:56] <jepler> skunkworks: once I realized that the original method (rely on "counts at last index to change") didn't work when reversing, I was forced to use the same solution as everyone else has: transmit a bit which says "index pulse seen since the last polling cycle".
[12:59:18] <jepler> er: 'rely on "counts at last index" to change'
[13:00:30] <skunkworks_> :) I guess if it works. You conformist.
[13:02:26] <skunkworks_> SO if I have 2540 counts - I could be ablt to spin it at 193200rpm with a 1ms servo thread? ;)
[13:02:44] <skunkworks_> *should be able to
[13:02:50] <jepler> don't you have 10160 counts (2540 cycles)?
[13:03:06] <skunkworks_> opps - my bad
[13:03:18] <jepler> so you're limited to about 48krpm
[13:03:24] <skunkworks_> darn ;)
[13:06:58] <skunkworks_> but the encoders can't count that fast - so it is a moot point.
[13:17:03] <cradek> * cradek fears the cvs up on the lathe now
[13:18:39] <skunkworks_> :) some times it isn't about you..
[13:18:45] <cradek> haha
[13:19:09] <cradek> I used ladder to solve a hairy problem - glad I was finally forced to use it/figure it out
[13:19:54] <skunkworks_> Cool. what was it.
[13:20:16] <cradek> imagine two buttons on the control panel 'cycle start' and 'feed hold'
[13:20:38] <cradek> if the machine is idle, cycle start should put the machine in auto mode, wait for confirmation of that, then start the program running.
[13:20:53] <cradek> now 'feed hold' should pause execution
[13:20:58] <cradek> if paused, 'cycle start' should resume it
[13:21:24] <cradek> and, pushing those buttons at any other (wrong) times should not cause errors to pop up
[13:21:58] <skunkworks_> Ah
[13:22:17] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ is used to the feed hold being momentary on our old machine.
[13:22:59] <cradek> that would have been easier, as cycle start would only have had to do one thing
[13:23:53] <cradek> I would have said the buttons are "run/resume" and "pause" but that wouldn't be the appropriate lingo
[13:24:13] <cradek> or maybe "start/resume"
[13:25:03] <archivist> * archivist imagines a feed hold mid screw cut
[13:25:13] <skunkworks_> did you see my pictures?
[13:25:59] <cradek> archivist: it won't let you pause a synchronized move. if you hit pause during the move, it pauses as soon as it's done
[13:26:10] <archivist> ok
[13:27:05] <cradek> skunkworks_: not yet
[13:27:39] <cradek> I should be getting out of here instead of chatting, actually
[13:27:48] <skunkworks_> ;) work work work
[13:28:10] <skunkworks_> from what I understand.. it doesn't make sense to me.
[13:40:53] <jepler> skunkworks: somewhere in there you'll run into the pluto's limit too -- 8191/1ms is 8.191MHz. the absolute max counting rate is only 40MHz, or less than 5 times that
[13:41:58] <skunkworks_> Thats ok - I don't think I will be getting anywhere near that.
[18:34:10] <maddash> ps/2 joystick
[18:34:23] <maddash> whoops.
[18:50:36] <Guest736> Guest736 is now known as skunkworks_
[18:50:59] <JymmmmEMC> What, everyone in line to get the new iPjone or what?
[18:51:08] <JymmmmEMC> iPhone
[18:59:36] <awallin> evening
[19:01:07] <JymmmmEMC> howdy
[19:02:31] <awallin> I'm obsessed with spirals today: http://www.anderswallin.net/2007/06/an-emergent-spiral/
[19:05:18] <archivist> now try and work out a clock fusee
[19:05:30] <awallin> how does that look like?
[19:07:03] <archivist> www.archivist.info/clock 4th picture in the middle of the clock
[19:08:03] <archivist> it has chain on it
[19:08:32] <archivist> spiral screw cut groove
[19:09:43] <archivist> its evil, so far not managed to draw in solidworks yet
[19:10:26] <maddash> the key is to use a laser, instead of grinding up the red into blue (aka waste)
[19:15:13] <JymmmmEMC> awallin: I don't get it, or are you spekaing of purely material removal and nothign else?
[19:15:25] <JymmmmEMC> ^consistant
[19:16:08] <awallin> yep, it chews up a constant number of pixels per move
[19:16:41] <JymmmmEMC> awallin: your speaking in lawnmower terms alone, correct?
[19:16:56] <JymmmmEMC> and assuming the lawn isn't 18" tall =)
[19:17:22] <awallin> yes, the model is very simple. did you want to add anything more fancy?
[19:18:40] <JymmmmEMC> awallin: no, no, just wasn't grasping the "CAM Algos" initially in your post (I kept thinking V-Carving)
[19:19:12] <awallin> yes, so this would be a roughing toolpath
[19:19:14] <JymmmmEMC> Which actually migth look very cool in a lawn, but.... =)
[19:20:46] <JymmmmEMC> LOL... could you imagine a gantry-style lawn mower... You lay track around the outside of the yard, and the lawn mower has a Z-height control too =)
[19:23:20] <JymmmmEMC> awallin: You have any kids?
[19:23:41] <JymmmmEMC> ^teenage
[19:23:48] <awallin> nope, sorry
[19:23:51] <skunkworks_> every few weeks you could use it to re-landscape..
[19:24:17] <JymmmmEMC> Oh , well they could open a small business mowing lawns automated like! Might be cool.
[19:24:45] <skunkworks_> you would need kins - not all yards are square
[19:24:59] <JymmmmEMC> just burry a wire around the perimiter
[19:26:14] <JymmmmEMC> Hell, if they can do it on shopping carts that leave the parking lot, you surely could do it for a lawn mower
[19:27:40] <JymmmmEMC> Get enough clients that are close to each other, you could have these robots running down the street mowing lawns automatically
[19:28:08] <JymmmmEMC> "WHEN LAWNMOWERS ATTACK! News at 11"
[19:28:12] <skunkworks_> until something goes wrong and you run over someones pet.. ro child
[19:28:12] <skunkworks_> or
[19:28:46] <JymmmmEMC> skunkworks That's why they have to be close to each other, so you can still keep an eye on them.
[19:28:53] <anonimasu> I found some bandwidth
[19:28:54] <anonimasu> :9
[19:29:13] <anonimasu> I changed a switch..
[19:29:30] <anonimasu> my download speed went from 650Kb/s to 1,5Mb's
[19:29:31] <anonimasu> :D
[19:29:52] <maddash> are pre-made adc/rs232 interfaces sold? or am I condemned to wiring one for myself?
[19:30:34] <JymmmmEMC> maddash: DAC with serial ?
[19:30:45] <anonimasu> maddash: err, thoose pre-made things are very expensive..
[19:31:09] <awallin> anonimasu: have you noticed a difference btw FF and IE when downloading? we saw something like that today at work
[19:31:15] <JymmmmEMC> I've seen some for ~$30
[19:31:19] <anonimasu> awallin: no, I'm torrenting
[19:31:33] <anonimasu> JymmmmEMC: not bad
[19:31:49] <maddash> JymmmmEMC: adc, not dac...
[19:31:54] <JymmmmEMC> maddash: how many channels?
[19:32:46] <maddash> JymmmmEMC: well, this is mainly for a simple oscilloscope, so one should be enough...
[19:33:28] <anonimasu> you need something fairly fast then
[19:33:31] <JymmmmEMC> http://www.dsprelated.com/showmessage/5436/1.php
[19:33:53] <JymmmmEMC> http://www.iguanalabs.com/adc2051.htm
[19:34:57] <maddash> whoa...that was fast
[19:37:25] <maddash> hm, the iguana labs page uses a microcontroller -- isn't that unnecessarily complex?
[19:38:31] <maddash> oh, I see -- the ucontroller provides easy access to the rs232
[19:41:17] <JymmmmEMC> $50 http://www.awce.com/gp3.htm?src=gaws
[19:41:28] <jepler> this isn't what you asked for, but it's interesting in its own right: http://kc0wys.homeunix.com/projects/electronics/10/index.html
[19:45:12] <maddash> "No microcontrollers. Everyone does that." -- interesting, but my parport is taken up already....
[19:46:23] <awallin> lawnmower guy was doing just fine when I let him start in the middle. Now I set him to start on the edge and he's not doing too good: http://www.anderswallin.net/sandbox/broken.gif
[19:46:42] <awallin> would you like your mill driven by this guy?
[19:46:54] <maddash> why's he bouncing?
[19:47:00] <archivist> maddash you still need to handle trigger and memory so a local micro will make for easy scope
[19:47:37] <anonimasu> awallin: IS that a nc algorithm?
[19:47:50] <awallin> maddash: he's only turning in one direction always trying to find a direction to go...
[19:48:02] <anonimasu> awallin: cute :D
[19:48:41] <JymmmmEMC> jepler: FWIW http://web-tronics.com/indmmwrspcin.html and I found a perl script for it too
[19:48:45] <awallin> anonimasu: this one looks like True Mill (tm) (patent pending): http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/2007_06spiral/spiral.gif and it was very easy to make
[19:49:11] <anonimasu> awallin: nice :)
[19:49:18] <anonimasu> how does it handle arabity shapes?
[19:49:41] <awallin> it doesn't. at least yet. if you have good ideas then lets hear them!
[19:49:46] <skunkworks_> I want to see what it does when it gets to the edges
[19:49:48] <anonimasu> hehe
[19:49:52] <anonimasu> awallin: a user interface ;)
[19:49:58] <anonimasu> me too
[19:51:23] <maddash> holy crap -- http://www.techlib.com/electronics/serialport.htm
[19:51:45] <JymmmmEMC> jepler: I have that meter already, kinda nice for what it is.
[20:00:47] <JymmmmEMC> on these style brakout boards (the solder type, not jumpers like this one), does anyone know the spacing? like could I solder in tiny terminal strips?
[20:00:49] <JymmmmEMC> http://www.73.com/a/me486.gif
[20:02:43] <jepler> JymmmmEMC: speaking of db25 connectors, 'The pins in these connectors are spaced approximately 0.108 inch (2.74 mm) apart with the rows spaced 0.112 inch (2.84 mm) apart'
[20:03:16] <anonimasu> JymmmmEMC: you probably cann, but it's a pain..
[20:04:33] <JymmmmEMC> Sorry, I couldn't locate a pic of the exact thing I was thinking of.
[20:04:39] <JymmmmEMC> jepler: where did you read that?
[20:04:40] <jepler> seems likely that you'd either have the traces spaced the same as the parport, or at 0.100" since that's a common spacing (as for DIP ICs)
[20:04:47] <jepler> JymmmmEMC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature
[20:10:32] <JymmmmEMC> one of these with a PCB between the two http://www.cablesdirect.com/prodimages/CC356-MM_LR.jpg
[20:11:02] <JymmmmEMC> I just cna't find a darn pic =(
[20:12:40] <JymmmmEMC> Like one of these http://www.l-com.com/product_images/detail/lg_DJB25MF.jpg
[20:12:59] <JymmmmEMC> but that PCB looks liek it has funky pad layouts
[20:13:22] <JymmmmEMC> and solder the terminal strips to the pads on the PCB
[20:13:42] <SWPadnos> JymmmmEMC, it'll depend on whether the manufacturer used 0.1" spacing (like for pin headers), the odd spacing of the D-sub connectors, or something else entirely
[20:14:02] <SWPadnos> there's no way to know unless you (a) buy one or (b) get an accurate answer from the vendor
[20:14:10] <archivist> often the pcb pattern spacing after the bend does not match the shell row spacing (/me was a pcb designer)
[20:14:28] <JymmmmEMC> SWPadnos: But, is there tiny screw terminal strips that do .1" spacing?
[20:14:49] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure, actually. I think the smallest I've seen is 0.15
[20:15:00] <JymmmmEMC> gotcha.
[20:15:06] <jepler> yes there are some .100" screw terminals
[20:15:31] <JymmmmEMC> I saw RS had a DB25 to terminal adapter, but they discontinued it, I shoulda but it when I saw it =(
[20:15:41] <JymmmmEMC> s/but/buy/
[20:15:56] <SWPadnos> s/buy/bought/ ;)
[20:15:58] <bill2or3> I read that RS is discontinuing all thier components.
[20:16:12] <SWPadnos> RS or Radio Shack?
[20:16:18] <bill2or3> I guess they need more room for cell phones and over priced cables.
[20:16:20] <bill2or3> radio shack.
[20:16:24] <SWPadnos> ah
[20:16:32] <JymmmmEMC> SWPadnos: RS == Radio Shack
[20:16:47] <anonimasu> no RS COMPONENTS is another thing
[20:16:48] <SWPadnos> no, RS is basically the British equivalent of Radio Shack
[20:16:50] <anonimasu> www.rsonline.com
[20:16:54] <archivist> RS==radio spares a uk company
[20:16:55] <SWPadnos> right - rswww.com or similar
[20:17:06] <bill2or3> ahh
[20:17:19] <bill2or3> radio shack (her ein the US) has sucked badly for a number of years.
[20:17:23] <JymmmmEMC> bill2or3: That's kinda sad, I just hit frys yesterday, they want $7 for fuses, RS wanted $2, I was shciked
[20:17:24] <bill2or3> so it's not a big loss.
[20:17:29] <archivist> not in the same league as radio shack
[20:17:37] <bill2or3> Jymm, maybe they were closing them out? :-)
[20:17:52] <jepler> several .100" (2.54mm) screw terminal blocks on this page: http://www.mouser.com/catalog/630/1251.pdf
[20:17:52] <JymmmmEMC> bill2or3: who, frys or RS ? lol
[20:18:02] <bill2or3> radio shack.
[20:18:08] <JymmmmEMC> jepler: any .108 ?
[20:18:20] <jepler> JymmmmEMC: no, not that I know of
[20:18:42] <JymmmmEMC> bill2or3: I dont know =)
[20:18:49] <SWPadnos> man. those are tiny :)
[20:18:55] <jepler> eek, expensive. http://www.cyberresearch.com/store/data-acquisition-control/terminal-panels-breakout-wiring-termination-blocks/CYSTP_25_2750.2.htm
[20:19:18] <JymmmmEMC> OUCH!
[20:19:41] <SWPadnos> well, if you just want to terminate a db25, there are DIN-rail blocks on eBay
[20:19:55] <SWPadnos> if you want to connect to two DB25, and also tee off some wires, that's harder
[20:19:55] <JymmmmEMC> SWPadnos: ?
[20:20:05] <jepler> http://www.btx.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=CD-1689776&Category=5dd99a12-b1b6-44b1-81d7-50ce5cccbb5c
[20:20:06] <SWPadnos> one sec, I'll find one
[20:21:04] <SWPadnos> ouch. still in the $40+ range
[20:21:08] <jepler> db25 "terminal blocks" http://www.mouser.com/catalog/630/1247.pdf
[20:21:09] <JymmmmEMC> heh
[20:21:58] <JymmmmEMC> jepler: that's some fancy shit there, un ya know!
[20:22:06] <JymmmmEMC> s/un/dun/
[20:22:14] <jepler> http://www.sealevel.com/product_detail.asp?product_id=445&Terminal_Block_-_DB25F%2F25_Screw_Terminals_
[20:22:16] <ds2> frys sells (or used to sell) a DB-25 breakout box for under $5
[20:22:19] <SWPadnos> those are basically what I was thinking of on eBay
[20:22:47] <SWPadnos> but DB25 seem less common than some others (like 50-pin ribbon or 37-pin D)
[20:23:26] <JymmmmEMC> I hate when they make the pics as tiny as possible like that
[21:03:08] <JymmmmEMC> Well, I wasn't looking for something this big, http://www.winfordeng.com/products/brk25.php
[21:22:05] <JymmmmEMC> anyone have any idea what todo with 500+m of mm finer option cable w/ SC connectors?
[21:22:11] <JymmmmEMC> fiber
[21:22:54] <JymmmmEMC> raw
[21:23:30] <JymmmmEMC> well, not completely raw, just not for running in the walls and such
[21:24:09] <JymmmmEMC> just no kevlar string or envrinmonet protective jacket
[21:31:22] <anonimasu> JymmmmEMC: stick it up your nose..
[21:57:06] <Guest843> I'm looking for configuration help/files for a MaxNC 10cl... I've looked everywhere, and can't seem to find anything specific
[21:57:54] <anonimasu> well, there isnt anything specific for any machine just yet..
[21:57:58] <Guest843> Was super impressed this morning though - I booted the live CD and was able to control my Sherline CNC mill with no configuration changes. No such luck with the MaxNC:)
[21:58:06] <anonimasu> you need to read the wiki how you start to configure your machine..
[21:58:09] <anonimasu> :)
[21:58:17] <anonimasu> what's special about the maxNC?
[21:58:44] <Guest843> I don't know. But I tried every config that was built in, and the only thing I was able to control was the spindle on/off
[21:59:03] <anonimasu> Well, you need to start by getting a clue :)
[21:59:09] <anonimasu> and determinating how your wiring is set up
[21:59:36] <anonimasu> that's the first thing
[21:59:40] <anonimasu> :)
[22:00:06] <anonimasu> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org
[22:00:20] <anonimasu> that's the very first thing you need to do :)
[22:00:27] <Guest843> I think this is what I was hoping not to get into. I have spent a year with Mach - and am not super psyched on having every available option open to choose from - and discovering what might work.
[22:00:33] <Guest843> I have been there.
[22:00:39] <Guest843> I have the manual.
[22:01:30] <anonimasu> Well, first you can change your wiring to match what you had with mach or you can configure your wiring to match what emc wants..
[22:01:45] <Guest843> What I am hoping to find, like I was able to with Mach, was a configuration file that is at least close.
[22:02:06] <Guest843> Change the wiring itself? Interesting.
[22:02:15] <jepler> Guest843: does the maxnc 10cl take "step+direction" signals or some other kind of signals?
[22:02:29] <anonimasu> jepler: as he ran with mach before I guess it does..
[22:02:29] <Guest843> I don't know.
[22:02:47] <Guest843> It never ran correctly with Mach either.
[22:03:48] <Guest843> Same situation as EMC so far - Mach controlled ther Sherline well - but the 10CL has never really worked right. Even the software that was built in throws servo errors about every 10 minutes.
[22:03:59] <robin_sz> well, "I think this is what I was hoping not to get into" and "It never ran correctly with Mach either" may very well be related
[22:04:13] <Guest843> I'm sure you are right:)
[22:04:16] <anonimasu> agreed..
[22:04:25] <toastydeath> machines do not often run on pure voodoo and shattered dreams
[22:04:27] <anonimasu> Guest843: You will get into it to get a correctly functioning mill.
[22:04:39] <anonimasu> :)
[22:04:44] <robin_sz> unless you know how the thing is wired and make sure the right signals are going to the right bits of the cotnroller. well, you are onto a loser
[22:04:53] <anonimasu> it's the same with any control.. you just dont stick a baldor there or a fanuc or a heidenhain and pray..
[22:05:17] <Guest843> Hmmm.
[22:05:22] <anonimasu> sorry, it's the truth..
[22:06:01] <robin_sz> Guest843, just out of interest, by any chance, do you have a brother called "Jim"?
[22:06:10] <Guest843> I'm sure you guys are right - I have two other mills, Modelmasters, neither one has ever taken a minute of configuration. I guess that's why they cost so much.
[22:06:13] <anonimasu> dont cradek have a maxNC?
[22:06:17] <archivist> Guest843, never plug random wires together, things make smoke then
[22:06:39] <jepler> anonimasu: yes, but not the "10cl" which is apparently some kind of closed loop / servo system
[22:06:39] <Guest843> Don't worry - I am not rewiring anything:)
[22:06:51] <anonimasu> Guest843: We are right.. that's the thing.. if you bought a control with installation you would never touch anything..
[22:07:14] <Guest843> I am not sure I understand that.
[22:07:17] <anonimasu> Guest843: but, a used heidenhain tnc-something are like 1$10k..
[22:07:30] <robin_sz> you just need to work out what the pins on the connector do, and then configure EMC or mach or whatever to work with the signals going out on the right pins
[22:08:52] <robin_sz> you'll just need to work out, pin 1 is X axis direction, pin2 is X axis step etc, and then configure EMC the same way around
[22:09:24] <robin_sz> Guest843, just out of interest, by any chance, do you have a brother called "Jim"?
[22:09:33] <Guest843> That makes sense, but I have enough other stuff to keep me busy. If I can't find the configuration files somewhere I will just wait until MaxNC starts shipping their integrated controllers.
[22:09:43] <Guest843> Jim? I guess I don't get the joke there.
[22:09:57] <robin_sz> just asking ..
[22:10:00] <toastydeath> i think that's a real question
[22:10:10] <toastydeath> not sure, but uh, not many jokes have no punchline or premise
[22:10:21] <anonimasu> Guest843: Nobody has a MaxNC of the people that use EMC, there's no way for anyone to build a config.
[22:10:30] <robin_sz> well, " I can't find the configuration files somewhere" ... you can stop right away then
[22:10:33] <anonimasu> unless they have all details about it..
[22:10:41] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[22:11:01] <robin_sz> with the info, it will take about 15 minutes to write the config
[22:11:04] <jepler> Guest843: http://pastebin.ca/596372
[22:11:08] <robin_sz> its no big deal
[22:11:19] <Guest843> That's fair.
[22:12:03] <robin_sz> oh fsck
[22:12:09] <robin_sz> disasater!!!
[22:12:11] <robin_sz> help!
[22:12:16] <anonimasu> robin_sz: ?
[22:12:21] <anonimasu> robin_sz: did the laser break down?
[22:12:21] <robin_sz> run out of beer!
[22:12:25] <anonimasu> oh..
[22:12:28] <Guest843> Well, it was nice chatting with you guys - you're a pretty entertaining bunch.
[22:12:31] <robin_sz> * robin_sz panics
[22:12:31] <JymmmmEMC> I was gonna say tequilia
[22:12:33] <toastydeath> situation critical!
[22:12:45] <toastydeath> running out of beer after you start drinking
[22:12:49] <toastydeath> is like being stranded in space
[22:12:54] <robin_sz> anonimasu, actually, the laser broke twice this week
[22:13:01] <anonimasu> Guest843: if you decide to go with emc just ask around here.. people will help you..
[22:13:04] <anonimasu> :)
[22:13:15] <JymmmmEMC> robin_sz: maybe the laser drank all the beer
[22:13:19] <robin_sz> anonimasu, first, a fan on one of the 20KVA switch-mode lamp drivers blew ...
[22:13:28] <anonimasu> robin_sz: ouch
[22:13:30] <JymmmmEMC> it's not really broke, just has a hangover
[22:13:34] <Guest843> Thanks. I will definitely use it for the Sherline. But not the other rigs:)
[22:13:37] <robin_sz> popped fuses on the controller, triggered overtemps etc
[22:14:12] <robin_sz> anonimasu, then, it blew a coolant hose on the head, dumped 50 litres of deionised water everywhere
[22:14:32] <toastydeath> wow
[22:15:28] <JymmmmEMC> robin_sz: ecerything to described, sounds like the laser drank too much, started having hot flashes, then puked collant.
[22:15:35] <robin_sz> point
[22:15:59] <JymmmmEMC> robin_sz: keep the beer away from the laser =)
[22:16:20] <robin_sz> got another one coming next week
[22:16:39] <robin_sz> just the laser source itself initially
[22:17:07] <robin_sz> if I can re-align it, I'll get the bed/machine part later
[22:17:14] <JymmmmEMC> still need RF ?
[22:17:26] <robin_sz> yeah, this one is RF excited
[22:17:37] <robin_sz> only a baby one though, 9KW of rf
[22:18:54] <jepler> oh wow -- maxnc have taken shitty motor drivers to the next level, if this "closed loop" circuit can be believed.
[22:19:07] <robin_sz> URI?
[22:19:50] <jepler> jas
[22:19:54] <jepler> it's hidden inside yahoo groups
[22:20:10] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/Cirquit%20block%20diagram-Maxnc15CL-Controller.pdf
[22:20:52] <jepler> first take the shittiest ever unipolar stepper driver (4 TIP120 transistors and some crossed fingers)
[22:21:10] <jepler> add some PICs that read quadrature input from some encoders
[22:21:21] <jepler> and call it a "closed loop servo system" because apparently nobody knows any better
[22:21:31] <anonimasu> heh
[22:21:56] <archivist> hmm lack of diodes as well
[22:21:57] <jepler> EFGH apparently comprise some "oh shit the steppers stalled" signal back to the computer ?
[22:21:58] <robin_sz> well, to be fair, you dont kow what the PIC is doing
[22:22:12] <anonimasu> robin_sz: it's not like it really matters :p
[22:22:13] <robin_sz> it could still be 5khz PWM on the motors
[22:22:32] <robin_sz> but it does look shitty, as you say
[22:22:52] <robin_sz> oh its steppers?
[22:22:55] <robin_sz> ick
[22:22:58] <anonimasu> yeah
[22:23:14] <robin_sz> thats at least as bad as the stepperworld one
[22:23:25] <robin_sz> that fsckwit needs suing
[22:24:57] <jepler> maybe the PICs do some kind of PWM -- the maxnc 10 open loop had 12VAC rectified to about 18V, a big power resistor, and 4 TIP120s per motor. there's no power resistor here, so the PICs must be doing something to avoid overheating the motors
[22:25:29] <robin_sz> or he just used shitty 18V old style motors
[22:25:57] <robin_sz> I note there is no current sense ...
[22:26:21] <robin_sz> or perhaps you are supposed to add external power resistors
[22:26:27] <archivist> pics probably crashing from spikes on the power
[22:26:55] <jepler> current feedback? who needs it
[22:27:02] <robin_sz> * robin_sz is drinking Marstons Pedigree
[22:27:15] <archivist> from near here
[22:27:41] <anonimasu> heh
[22:27:44] <anonimasu> LOL
[22:27:57] <anonimasu> im still interested in what protocol it runs
[22:28:17] <archivist> random protocol
[22:28:24] <robin_sz> step dir
[22:28:29] <robin_sz> or quadrature
[22:28:30] <archivist> might dir
[22:28:40] <anonimasu> yeah.. but what random ;)
[22:28:51] <robin_sz> 2 lines per channel
[22:30:24] <robin_sz> and people buy that junk?
[22:30:35] <jepler> but what you really want to do is throw the control box out, forget that you paid a premium for the encoders, and buy/build a respectable and documented stepper driver
[22:31:04] <anonimasu> yep
[22:31:31] <robin_sz> the more I see stuff like this ...
[22:31:46] <jepler> tip120 does contain a reverse diode, so at least the back emf is dumped into the motor supply rail .. the PICs should not see any trouble from that
[22:31:48] <robin_sz> the more I become convinced that Geckos are the way to go
[22:33:04] <jepler> oh I wouldn't say it has to be geckos -- just not something where every "quality vs cost" decision was made "cost"
[22:33:44] <robin_sz> I bet a MaxNC costs more than 3 geckos
[22:34:13] <anonimasu> :)
[22:35:19] <robin_sz> thats the thing, they are so cheap and so good, anything else begins to look like foolishness
[22:36:08] <anonimasu> robin_sz: dont let jymmm hear taht
[22:36:10] <anonimasu> that..
[22:36:27] <robin_sz> I believe we covered that many times already
[22:36:48] <robin_sz> what did he buy in th end?
[22:36:49] <anonimasu> though he's yet to have a running machine
[22:36:54] <anonimasu> some parker drives..
[22:36:56] <robin_sz> parker?
[22:36:56] <robin_sz> right
[22:37:04] <robin_sz> and a psu?
[22:37:08] <anonimasu> no clue
[22:37:19] <robin_sz> we know that
[22:37:38] <robin_sz> but, lets not hold it against him
[22:38:55] <anonimasu> :)