#emc | Logs for 2007-06-27

[00:32:08] <Unit41> hey cool charcoal works good for casting too
[00:42:36] <ohiopctechDOTcom> anyone feel like building an amd64 RT debian etch kernel? i tried about 5 times and can't get it to boot... DOH!
[00:50:18] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ohiopctechDOTcom is now known as chr0n1c
[00:57:14] <anonimasu> gah..
[00:57:19] <anonimasu> time to read up on vector math
[02:14:11] <Jymmm> yo ho ho
[02:17:54] <Skullworks-PGAB> Jym
[02:18:57] <Jymmm> yes sir?
[02:19:51] <Skullworks-PGAB> you were asking at one point if there were any more of the etch-a-sketch PCB's?
[02:20:21] <Jymmm> Skullworks-PGAB: yep =)
[02:20:57] <Skullworks-PGAB> how a bout a kit - includes all components for $21 (and PCB)
[02:21:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> not EXACTLY the same but almost
[02:21:21] <Jymmm> you have a kit?
[02:21:43] <Skullworks-PGAB> kit has no DB 25
[02:21:56] <Skullworks-PGAB> so you need a breakout
[02:22:05] <Skullworks-PGAB> but otherwise...
[02:22:10] <Skullworks-PGAB> 1 sec
[02:27:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> http://www.solarbotics.com/products/index.php?scdfa-250100084-viewDetail-productzq3965zq4categoryzq31=true
[02:27:47] <Skullworks-PGAB> check that out - and the links to the schematic
[02:29:15] <Skullworks-PGAB> I've bought 3 of these.
[02:29:20] <Jymmm> Skullworks-PGAB: Thanks, I like jepler's becuase of the 1) two axis and 2) minimilistic components. I can buy those motors here, but can't test the torque (for myself) unless I can drive them.
[02:29:50] <Skullworks-PGAB> idiot proof directions ( until there is an upgraded idiot )
[02:29:54] <Jymmm> 3) and that it runs off of 12v
[02:30:17] <Skullworks-PGAB> its basicall the same circuit
[02:30:34] <Skullworks-PGAB> will run off anything over 5.6v
[02:30:51] <Skullworks-PGAB> up to 26V as shipped
[02:30:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> is dual axis
[02:31:08] <Jymmm> but $70 too
[02:31:17] <Jymmm> oh,
[02:31:25] <Skullworks-PGAB> has better voltage reg (1amp)
[02:31:26] <Jymmm> then $50
[02:31:36] <Skullworks-PGAB> $17 + shipping
[02:31:38] <Jymmm> screw Vreg
[02:31:45] <Skullworks-PGAB> that includes all components
[02:31:53] <Jymmm> no motors though
[02:32:03] <Skullworks-PGAB> true
[02:32:41] <Skullworks-PGAB> its just the dual H-bridge with its own 5v power supply
[02:32:47] <Jymmm> I want to make/build/sell a whole system for under $250 + S&H, less the PC
[02:33:04] <Jymmm> less the spindle too
[02:33:10] <Jymmm> (dremel)
[02:34:15] <Jymmm> I don't know if that's possible, but it be nice
[02:42:38] <Jymmm> Skullworks-PGAB: It's own PS???
[02:43:17] <Jymmm> oh, the regulator
[02:46:45] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah makes its own 5vdc and can suplly power for other devices
[02:48:36] <Skullworks-PGAB> I looked at that package deal and said it would cost me more in my own time just to round up all the loose components...
[02:48:59] <skunkworks> Jymmm: go servos - higher selling point and really almost as cheap.
[02:49:14] <Skullworks-PGAB> and you can gang the dual bridge to a single axis with a few mods
[02:49:22] <Jymmm> skunkworks: cna you find CHEAP servos?
[02:49:27] <Jymmm> as in under $5
[02:50:13] <Skullworks-PGAB> jym - the motors can be had pretty cheap - its the encoders that will jack up the cost
[02:50:46] <Jymmm> When I earlier said complete system for $250, I'm including the machine as well.
[02:50:47] <skunkworks> oh - under 5 might be hard.. But it also depends on you definition of 'servo'
[02:51:02] <skunkworks> http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007062621461319&item=10-2351&catname=
[02:51:18] <skunkworks> those are on the big size - and a bit out of your price range
[02:51:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> cheapest encoder is U.S Digital E4P and you have to buy like 50pcs to get the good bulk pricing
[02:52:20] <Skullworks-PGAB> while it works - and can go up to 300 lines (1200 quad) it has no index channel.
[02:52:57] <Skullworks-PGAB> router people may not care
[02:53:16] <Skullworks-PGAB> but mill or lathe people are going to want index
[02:53:53] <Jymmm> LOL, guys... you're not hearing me... I mean driver, motors, PSU, leadscrew, couplers, hardware, spindle mount, linear rails (?!), bearings, the frame of a gantry router, etc ***ALL*** for $250 or less.
[02:54:37] <Jymmm> Mind you, the gantry frame might be made out of EPS, but you get the idea.
[02:54:38] <skunkworks> uh huh. and ball screws - you need ball screws
[02:55:06] <Jymmm> skunkworks: preloaded ones
[02:55:11] <skunkworks> and and brushless servos
[02:55:20] <Jymmm> skunkworks: I am serious though.
[02:56:05] <Jymmm> We are not talking fast, or accurate, or solid, but something that is functional.
[02:56:49] <skunkworks> have you seen all the machines people build out of mdf and drawer slides?
[02:57:14] <skunkworks> or water pipe?
[02:57:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> Jym its a nice dream, but I think gas would have to drop to $0.79/gal before you will get anywhere close to a $250 price for all that.
[02:57:51] <Jymmm> Yep, this is not that. This is somehting where you are more learning how CNC works, and when you're done you can at least create "something" with it, but not invest a serious amount of $$$$$
[02:58:26] <Jymmm> I mean you might only be able to CNC playdo, but at least it's functional.
[03:00:17] <Jymmm> I could easily make it cheap if I had a mold injection machine =)
[03:00:37] <Jymmm> (and knew how to use the darn thing =)
[03:03:56] <toastydeath> uh
[03:04:02] <toastydeath> injection molds are more expensive than the machine is
[03:04:07] <toastydeath> just uh, sayin'
[03:06:47] <Jymmm> toastydeath: I could make the entire frame of the gantry router for apx $3/ea in qty
[03:07:14] <Jymmm> with the holes already in the right spots and everything.
[03:07:32] <toastydeath> what does that have to do with injection machines though
[03:07:48] <Jymmm> toastydeath: think about it
[03:07:54] <toastydeath> i am
[03:08:18] <Jymmm> mold inject eh grnatry frame
[03:08:28] <toastydeath> i see
[03:09:08] <toastydeath> so you're probably talking about 80-120 grand per mold
[03:09:20] <toastydeath> for a simple mold, anyway
[03:09:30] <toastydeath> for a taig/sherline sized machine
[03:09:34] <Jymmm> more like $15K
[03:09:44] <toastydeath> who is making your mold?
[03:09:51] <toastydeath> you got a quote?
[03:11:34] <toastydeath> 15k is like, the price i hear quoted for small parts that have no features other than a plain cavity and core, like a tiny cup
[03:12:28] <toastydeath> i mean you might have found some crazy moldmaker
[03:12:35] <toastydeath> offering BARGAIN BIN PRICES
[03:12:59] <toastydeath> maybe a chineese shop might quote that low
[03:13:09] <toastydeath> but even then
[03:20:16] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: update changelog - 5i20 fixes
[03:21:27] <Jymmm> that was a year ago or so
[03:56:43] <Skullworks-PGAB> pico = 10^-?
[03:56:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> how many decimal places
[03:57:13] <petev> ^-12
[03:58:06] <Skullworks-PGAB> so 100nf = 1pf ?
[03:58:27] <petev> no, 1000pf = 1nf
[03:58:35] <Skullworks-PGAB> looking at old schematic (while half asleep)
[03:58:41] <petev> nan = 10^-9
[03:58:48] <petev> nano
[03:59:10] <Jymmm> nanu-nanu
[03:59:57] <cradek> if it's really old, beware the units may not be what you expect
[04:00:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> * Skullworks-PGAB hooks Jym up to a 1000V 1DekaFarad cap....
[04:02:49] <Skullworks-PGAB> not that old - but I know what you mean about how notatios for capacitors has changed over the years.
[04:48:29] <Skullworks-PGAB> How to read Capacitor Codes http://xtronics.com/kits/ccode.htm
[05:00:40] <Skullworks-PGAB> searching ebay for a transformer for a big servo power supply - guess this is overkill - http://cgi.ebay.com/Transformer-1500-KVA-3-phase-Substation_W0QQitemZ160132064078QQihZ006QQcategoryZ71390QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[05:03:21] <Jymmm> Skullworks-PGAB: buullshit
[05:04:27] <Jymmm> Skullworks-PGAB: one per axis hould just about cover it
[05:04:32] <Jymmm> (maybe)
[05:05:23] <Jymmm> Skullworks-PGAB: Now, here ya go... one xmfr for all 3 axis http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160131366058&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RCRX_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=160132064078&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=CrossSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget
[05:07:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> only if it comes with 10yrs worth of power.
[05:08:01] <Jymmm> Skullworks-PGAB: start peddling that bicycle generator of yours
[05:08:36] <Skullworks-PGAB> that flows power in the megawatt/second rate
[05:11:42] <Skullworks-PGAB> flashback to EDM topic
[05:13:02] <Skullworks-PGAB> CL (ladder) can read I/O for status (such as tool changer) - so could CL update a system variable?
[05:15:41] <Skullworks-PGAB> * Skullworks-PGAB just looked at the time and panic attack struck - have to be up for work in 4 hrs.
[05:17:09] <ds2> bah it is only work
[05:17:50] <Skullworks-PGAB> but 12hr shifts are a real killer
[05:18:23] <ds2> not if you spend 8 of it sleeping ;)
[05:18:58] <Skullworks-PGAB> I wish!
[05:19:15] <ds2> what do you do?
[05:20:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> CNC setup lead - at a manufacturing plant www.mincomfg.com
[05:20:28] <ds2> oh real work not like Jymmm ;)
[05:20:30] <ds2> * ds2 ducks
[05:21:33] <Skullworks-PGAB> running around on concrete - ducking robots - (and idiots) fixing machine crashes where the operator loads a part backwards etc.
[05:24:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> Its still zombie work compared to the tool & die and custom prototype work I was doing a few years back - but this pays More (after all the OT).
[05:25:38] <Skullworks-PGAB> Off to snooze awhile.
[05:26:40] <ds2> l8r
[05:31:43] <toastydeath> ffff
[07:12:55] <CIA-8> 03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/boss_plc.c: -Added feed hold on spindle speed changes when spindle is on.
[11:11:03] <archivist> is there a canned spiral goove (like screw cut but wider)
[14:20:04] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_convert.cc: SF#1734578: spindle spinning is a precondition of g33, g33.1
[18:37:11] <JymmmmEMC> Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!
[18:37:38] <anonimasu> YARR!
[18:37:45] <anonimasu> ohoy you scurvy seadog
[18:37:49] <Dallur> Ship ahoy !
[18:38:31] <JymmmmEMC> fire the canons!
[18:39:04] <JymmmmEMC> "You sunk my battleship!"
[18:40:05] <Dallur> A pence for an old man o'de sea?
[18:40:34] <anonimasu> :)
[18:40:38] <anonimasu> what's up?
[18:41:39] <JymmmmEMC> The box I got yesterday has a battery chrager and a 12Ah gel-cell, Just tested the charger and it works! Seeing now if there's any life left in the battery! Either way, I'm jazzed as this charge can supply 6A at 12 or 24VDC
[18:41:55] <anonimasu> hm
[18:41:56] <anonimasu> ok
[18:42:45] <skunkworks> Still the guns and stow 'em, Signal the men, set the flags and make good to clear port.
[18:42:51] <JymmmmEMC> It's the kind of charger that's used in alarm/cctv system... Supplys 12/24V and battery backup + charger
[18:43:14] <anonimasu> ok
[18:43:16] <anonimasu> :)
[18:44:10] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: I use it for emergency comms power. The one I have now, only supplies 2A
[18:44:45] <JymmmmEMC> Zero voltage drop with the loss of mains.
[18:45:02] <anonimasu> ok
[18:45:03] <anonimasu> :)
[18:45:08] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: shut up!
[18:45:10] <JymmmmEMC> lol
[18:45:48] <JymmmmEMC> Now, I have to figure out how to intergrate my solar blanket into it.
[18:46:14] <Dallur> I got my new voltage sensor/breakouts last night which is supposed to be able to stand up to the High Frequency interference
[18:46:33] <JymmmmEMC> Dallur: breaktouts?
[18:46:38] <Dallur> This weekend is looking good for a whole lot of plasma cutting
[18:46:38] <JymmmmEMC> like a breakout board?
[18:46:54] <Dallur> JymmmmEMC: yeah, built in breakout with very robust opto isolation
[18:47:05] <JymmmmEMC> Dallur: url?
[18:47:13] <Dallur> JymmmmEMC: http://www.candcnc.com/MP1000.htm
[18:47:39] <Dallur> JymmmmEMC: it's the same basic design as the one I had before but it's got more features and a new sensor design
[18:48:24] <Dallur> JymmmmEMC: I can also do cool things like change the voltage settings on the fly (I can sense the cutting material thickness and automatically change the amperage and ask the user to change consumables)
[18:48:52] <skunkworks> dallur: this is all done in hal?
[18:49:20] <Dallur> skunkworks: I have not done the sensing/amperage changes but they would be yes, all the current stuff is done in hal
[18:49:23] <JymmmmEMC> Dallur: very cool =)
[18:49:33] <skunkworks> very neat
[18:50:04] <skunkworks> I was thinking the other day that just hal could be used for tracking the sun.. I think.
[18:50:27] <Dallur> skunkworks: have you seen the open office object diagram I made for the thc config ?
[18:50:38] <skunkworks> I don't think so
[18:50:41] <skunkworks> link?
[18:50:52] <skunkworks> I will look at it tonight.
[18:50:57] <Dallur> skunkworks: just a sec, it's a good indication of what can be done with hal though
[18:51:29] <Dallur> skunkworks: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/configs/plasma-thc/THCDesign.odg
[18:51:37] <skunkworks> Thanks
[18:53:01] <Dallur> I will need to change a thing or two to fully use all the features in this thc rather than the one I had but 99.9% will be the same
[19:12:14] <Dallur> I wonder what the serial interface looks like though, is anyone here using serial for control ?
[19:19:03] <JymmmmEMC> Dallur: Yeah, but not for CNC control =) http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/fm_txvrs/4116lrg.gif
[19:31:53] <Dallur> JymmmmEMC: Well if I want to be able to set the desired voltage from EMC I will need to figure out a way to communicate with the box via serial
[19:41:57] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[19:49:27] <JymmmmEMC> SWPadnos: !
[19:52:22] <JymmmmEMC> Heh, cool... I can use a Solar battery controller in this panel! WooHoo!
[19:53:51] <JymmmmEMC> Now, to try and figure out how to add a 12V source to it
[19:54:51] <robin_sz> * robin_sz is tired
[19:54:55] <robin_sz> long hard week
[19:58:36] <JymmmmEMC> robin_sz: well, work hard at a couple 6packs over the weekend
[19:59:18] <robin_sz> nah
[19:59:43] <robin_sz> things to do this weekend
[19:59:50] <robin_sz> id rather not waste it
[20:00:45] <robin_sz> had to fix the laser twice today
[20:00:55] <JymmmmEMC> I hear ya there... I'm workign harder at home than I have been at work. Well, except for last night... fir alarm went off, and to walk thru the WHOLE bldg, and this is a HUGE bldg!
[20:01:37] <robin_sz> let it burn
[20:01:42] <robin_sz> its insured ;)
[20:02:13] <JymmmmEMC> Yeah, well when the comptroller asks, you do (he signs the paychecks =)
[20:03:46] <robin_sz> so the laser first blew a fuse ... turned out to be one of 4 fans on one of the heatsinks had failed
[20:04:03] <robin_sz> took 4 hours to find a fan
[20:04:17] <robin_sz> no sooner was that fixed ...
[20:04:29] <robin_sz> 2 hours later it blows a hose in the head
[20:04:38] <robin_sz> water everywhere
[20:04:48] <robin_sz> like EVERYWHERE ....
[20:07:52] <anonimasu> I want hi
[20:08:09] <robin_sz> voltage rock and roll?
[20:08:34] <anonimasu> not really
[20:08:47] <robin_sz> wuss
[20:10:41] <anonimasu> :)
[20:10:54] <robin_sz> went to look at another laser this week
[20:11:02] <robin_sz> 2kw Trumpf
[20:11:33] <robin_sz> "slightly worn" would be one description
[20:11:39] <robin_sz> utterely knackered would be another
[20:19:16] <jepler> Dallur: a userspace HAL component can use linux serial drivers to communicate with serial devices, as long as realtime guarantees are not required
[20:20:55] <anonimasu> robin_sz: was it cheap/free?
[20:21:31] <robin_sz> cheap ish ... not free by any means
[20:31:09] <anonimasu> ok
[20:37:08] <robin_sz> the resonator is 'twisted' ... some sort of alignment problem withthe mirrors
[20:38:25] <ds2> Mmmmmm lasers
[20:38:58] <anonimasu> robin_sz: you think you could fix it?
[20:42:39] <feoc> evenin
[20:42:49] <robin_sz> anonimasu, well, the laser service guys I have spoken too tell me many have tried to fix the exact same problem in the past
[20:43:02] <robin_sz> none have succeeded
[20:43:13] <JymmmmEMC> robin_sz: YOU CAN DO IT!
[20:43:16] <robin_sz> its a factory cleanroom job
[20:43:19] <anonimasu> robin_sz: why not?
[20:43:22] <anonimasu> hm ok
[20:43:35] <robin_sz> anonimasu, of course, I think I can do it ;)
[20:43:42] <anonimasu> robin_sz: what makes it a cleanroom job?
[20:43:53] <robin_sz> cleanroom is the wrong phrase maybe
[20:44:02] <JymmmmEMC> robin_sz: Just keep saying to yourself.. "I think I can! I think I can Ithink I can..."
[20:44:19] <robin_sz> JymmmmEMC, nah .. "I know I can .. I know I can ... "
[20:44:40] <robin_sz> anonimasu, silly high accuracy alignments etc
[20:44:45] <JymmmmEMC> lol, even better! But is it worth it? How many hours are on it?
[20:44:47] <anonimasu> ah
[20:45:20] <robin_sz> JymmmmEMC, how many hours to fix it or how many hours has it run?
[20:45:35] <JymmmmEMC> how man hours is on it
[20:45:41] <JymmmmEMC> +y
[20:45:52] <robin_sz> JymmmmEMC, how many hours to fix it or how many hours has it run?
[20:46:01] <JymmmmEMC> has it run
[20:46:13] <robin_sz> oh, tens of thousands
[20:46:20] <JymmmmEMC> ew
[20:46:25] <robin_sz> but, thats not a problem
[20:46:43] <robin_sz> the moving bits are OK, the roots blower has been serviced etc
[20:46:58] <robin_sz> its just a question of alinging a few mirrors
[20:47:09] <robin_sz> to within 0.5 mrad
[20:47:20] <JymmmmEMC> that shouldn't be a problem.
[20:47:27] <anonimasu> robin_sz: can the service guys do it for you?
[20:47:41] <robin_sz> anonimasu, nope, none of the field service guys can do it
[20:47:50] <robin_sz> its a factory job
[20:47:54] <anonimasu> hm, that sucks..
[20:48:04] <anonimasu> how do you plan on aligning them?
[20:48:18] <anonimasu> do you have enough stuff to measure that?
[20:48:33] <robin_sz> even the long standing service guys, one who did 20 years with the factory .. he saw every part of the factory but was never allowed intot he laser alignment facility
[20:48:42] <anonimasu> or can you ship the resonator tothem?
[20:48:47] <robin_sz> sure ..
[20:48:55] <anonimasu> would that be cheaper?
[20:48:59] <robin_sz> they can do it on a 10 day turnaround, no problem
[20:49:09] <anonimasu> and how much $?=
[20:49:13] <robin_sz> 35K GBP
[20:49:17] <robin_sz> 50K euro?
[20:49:18] <anonimasu> heh
[20:49:28] <anonimasu> buy a big cnc lathe.
[20:49:33] <robin_sz> sounds like alot of money to turn a few alignment screws :)
[20:49:35] <anonimasu> seriously for aligning?
[20:49:41] <robin_sz> yep
[20:49:56] <robin_sz> "I know I can ... I know I can ..."
[20:50:04] <archivist> +- less than a knats cock
[20:50:13] <anonimasu> how small is a mrad?
[20:50:19] <robin_sz> 0.5 mrad is not alot
[20:50:26] <robin_sz> its 1/1000th of a rad
[20:50:38] <robin_sz> divided by 2
[20:50:49] <anonimasu> insanity.
[20:50:55] <anonimasu> the price actually
[20:50:56] <robin_sz> badger!
[20:51:06] <anonimasu> sure it's brutal precision but that much $$$
[20:51:15] <robin_sz> "I know I can ... I know I can ..."
[20:51:52] <anonimasu> robin_sz: if you can take the dive and pay for the alignment again.. I guess its sane...
[20:52:27] <robin_sz> but ... what if I can tweak it in myself?
[20:52:47] <anonimasu> that's like beating a wrapped spindle right with a small hammer..
[20:52:48] <anonimasu> ;)
[20:52:50] <robin_sz> maybe i can make a nice bit of money doing the same job for other people?
[20:53:33] <anonimasu> what kind of thing will you use for measuring?
[20:53:44] <robin_sz> mk1 eyeball
[20:53:56] <anonimasu> heh..
[20:54:02] <anonimasu> glhf..
[20:54:31] <anonimasu> :D
[20:54:36] <anonimasu> (good luck have fun)
[20:54:48] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I doubt your eyeball MK1
[20:55:01] <robin_sz> seeing is believing
[20:55:21] <robin_sz> "caution, high power laser. do not stare into beam with remaining eye"
[20:55:35] <jepler> bah that's nearly 2 arcminutes
[20:55:37] <anonimasu> heh
[20:55:47] <anonimasu> jepler: how big is a arcminute?
[20:55:57] <robin_sz> > < that big
[20:55:58] <SWPadnos> 60 arcseconds
[20:56:04] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[20:56:13] <anonimasu> heh
[20:56:17] <SWPadnos> (or 1/60 of a degree)
[20:56:26] <anonimasu> ah.
[20:56:31] <anonimasu> that I can grasp
[20:56:35] <jepler> anonimasu: units 'arcminute' 'milli radian' => * 0.29088821
[20:56:35] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:56:44] <anonimasu> that's not super small..
[20:57:13] <jepler> (and an arcsecond is 4.84 microradians)
[20:57:26] <anonimasu> the mazak variaxis mills have more positioning accuracy on the A axis.. ;)
[20:57:44] <robin_sz> 2 arcminutes is fairly cute
[20:58:00] <anonimasu> I got a ad in the mail, 0.000001 degree minimum increment..
[20:58:32] <robin_sz> I got an add in the mail, get viagra cheap.
[20:59:04] <anonimasu> robin_sz: ah figures you are at that age soon.
[20:59:22] <JymmmmEMC> s/soon//
[20:59:26] <robin_sz> "they say at my age, sex can be dangerous"
[20:59:39] <anonimasu> hm, kill yourself :D
[20:59:42] <robin_sz> "well, if she dies .... she dies "
[20:59:59] <JymmmmEMC> In THIS day and age, any sex is dangerous.... AIDS, that shit kills people!
[21:00:06] <robin_sz> groucho marx said that
[21:00:08] <anonimasu> ah
[21:02:31] <anonimasu> *has no clue who that is either*
[21:02:58] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: you dont know who Groucho MArx is?!
[21:03:01] <anonimasu> no
[21:03:08] <JymmmmEMC> lol
[21:03:34] <archivist> there aint no sanity clause
[21:03:51] <JymmmmEMC> no doubt
[21:05:09] <anonimasu> :)
[21:05:15] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: He was the Eddie Murphy/Robin Williams/Carlos Mencia of comedy (and movies) of his hayday.
[21:05:15] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I hope you can do it :)
[21:05:22] <anonimasu> ah
[21:05:33] <anonimasu> http://www.groucho-marx.com/
[21:05:50] <anonimasu> I've heard lots of thoose one-liners before
[22:02:03] <feoc> my connection really sucks tonight
[22:27:47] <JymmmmEMC> feoc: Advice from pigeons.... FEED THE PIGEONS!
[22:28:53] <JymmmmEMC> feoc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers
[22:31:37] <JymmmmEMC> feoc: Advice from pigeons.... FEED THE PIGEONS!
[22:31:40] <JymmmmEMC> feoc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers
[22:34:55] <robin_sz> JymmmmEMC, this is not exactly new
[22:35:28] <JymmmmEMC> robin_sz: It was in respect to: 03:04:08 PM) feoc: my connection really sucks tonight
[22:35:33] <anonimasu> :)
[22:36:29] <JymmmmEMC> Damn... still need to figure out how to charge/supply from 13.8VDC =(
[22:36:43] <robin_sz> charge?
[22:36:46] <robin_sz> charge what?
[22:37:50] <JymmmmEMC> robin_sz: I got a 120VAC to 12VDC charger/supply @6A last night. I figured out how to uses the solar pnales I have to charge when mains is out, but not 13.8VDC source, like from a car.
[22:37:53] <toastydeath> dilithium crystals!
[22:38:18] <bill2or3> Mr. Fusion
[22:38:28] <JymmmmEMC> toastydeath: Living in the 60's I see =)
[22:38:51] <archivist> JymmmmEMC, 12v batteries are 13.8 even the sealed types the 12v is nominal
[22:39:09] <JymmmmEMC> archivist: ok, and?
[22:39:11] <robin_sz> * robin_sz cant understand JymmmmEMC 's question
[22:39:35] <archivist> your 12v charger should really be 13.8
[22:39:36] <JymmmmEMC> robin_sz: I want to be able to charge the batteries AND be able to supply at least 6A.
[22:39:54] <JymmmmEMC> from a car
[22:39:53] <robin_sz> right
[22:40:07] <feoc> need more pidgeon food :(
[22:40:25] <JymmmmEMC> robin_sz: I don't have a method to charge/supply that. Only 120VAC and Solar Panels.
[22:40:47] <robin_sz> supplying 6A at 12V from car is easy enough
[22:41:24] <robin_sz> surely charging a car battery is easy .. you just start the car?
[22:41:36] <JymmmmEMC> robin_sz: Not car battery, gel-cell
[22:41:47] <robin_sz> so .. you have a battery ...
[22:41:59] <robin_sz> and a 120 to 12V charger ...
[22:42:30] <robin_sz> problem solved, no?
[22:42:32] <JymmmmEMC> robin_sz: http://www.altronix.com/index.php?pid=2&model_num=OLS180
[22:42:38] <JymmmmEMC> That's the 120VAC side
[22:43:04] <JymmmmEMC> Here's the solar side: http://www.siliconsolar.com/Sunlight-10A-12V-Charge-Controller-p-16669.html
[22:43:02] <robin_sz> right 120 to 12V
[22:43:13] <robin_sz> so you cant use that to charge the battery with, obviously
[22:43:29] <JymmmmEMC> the solar? Yeah you can
[22:43:34] <robin_sz> yes the solar.
[22:43:40] <robin_sz> not the 120 to 12V
[22:44:03] <robin_sz> a 12V dc suppky wotn charge a 12V battery
[22:44:15] <anonimasu> ~14v will
[22:44:18] <JymmmmEMC> read the desc, it's not JSUT a PS
[22:44:27] <anonimasu> 13.6 or whatever..
[22:45:05] <robin_sz> right
[22:45:05] <JymmmmEMC> I need to be able to pull 6A as well as be able to charge the battery.
[22:45:06] <robin_sz> OK
[22:45:27] <robin_sz> so its a battery backed 12V 6A supply and you can also chareg the battery from a solar cell
[22:45:26] <anonimasu> you can charge with less, just slowly..
[22:45:33] <JymmmmEMC> if 120vac is out, switch to car, if no car, switch to solar.
[22:45:37] <robin_sz> so what exactly CAN'T you do?
[22:46:02] <JymmmmEMC> I need to be able to charge/supply from car still w/o overcharging the battery.
[22:46:12] <JymmmmEMC> and draw 6A
[22:46:12] <robin_sz> diode split
[22:46:25] <robin_sz> car alternator ...
[22:46:28] <robin_sz> 2 diodes
[22:46:31] <robin_sz> one to car battery
[22:46:37] <robin_sz> one to your gel battery
[22:46:41] <robin_sz> job done
[22:47:05] <archivist> car alternator will cook a gel
[22:47:11] <anonimasu> robin_sz: well, why do it the easy way..
[22:47:11] <JymmmmEMC> I don't want to overcharge the battery, a la trickle/float mode.
[22:47:28] <anonimasu> well, a automotive gel battery will survive it..
[22:47:33] <robin_sz> anonimasu, good point
[22:47:34] <ds2> what's the terminal voltage for a gel?
[22:47:42] <JymmmmEMC> 12
[22:47:46] <robin_sz> ds2, 13.8v
[22:47:47] <anonimasu> robin_sz: use the right thing at the right place..
[22:47:54] <ds2> isn't that the same as a wet lead acid?
[22:47:58] <robin_sz> yes
[22:48:14] <archivist> gels are lead acid
[22:48:20] <ds2> I guess a gel won't let you keep it bubbling?
[22:48:58] <anonimasu> yeah..
[22:49:06] <anonimasu> wtf.. with a automotive gel battery there's no probelm.
[22:49:18] <anonimasu> really..
[22:49:30] <JymmmmEMC> Damn, this is close... http://www.rason.org/Projects/gelcell/gelcell.htm
[22:49:30] <toastydeath> it is true
[22:49:49] <robin_sz> ds2, if that were the case almost every modenr motorbike would be dead already
[22:50:04] <robin_sz> ds2, all modern bikes use gel cells
[22:50:20] <ds2> robin_sz: then what's the big deal with the alternator charging it?
[22:50:23] <feoc> most race cars use gel too
[22:50:27] <robin_sz> ds2, none ...
[22:50:32] <ds2> Oh okay
[22:50:34] <robin_sz> ds2, there is no big deal
[22:50:42] <anonimasu> that's how I know..
[22:50:52] <robin_sz> ds2, its just JymmmmEMC likes to complciate things ;)
[22:50:59] <JymmmmEMC> these aren't automotive batteries
[22:51:01] <anonimasu> yep
[22:51:05] <anonimasu> JymmmmEMC: well, buy a charger.
[22:51:20] <robin_sz> ds2, if you have 2 cells on a alternator, you have to split the output with diodes
[22:51:22] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: find one that works of car
[22:51:37] <anonimasu> JymmmmEMC: we sell them..
[22:51:40] <anonimasu> they cost 150eur.
[22:51:47] <ds2> robin_sz: why?
[22:51:52] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: url?
[22:52:13] <anonimasu> I cant remember
[22:52:13] <anonimasu> who makes them
[22:52:28] <anonimasu> I'll check for you tomorrow
[22:52:28] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: you just said you seel them
[22:52:32] <anonimasu> yeah, not online
[22:52:37] <JymmmmEMC> ah
[22:52:44] <anonimasu> JymmmmEMC: like in the store at work..
[22:53:09] <robin_sz> ds2, if you dont put a diode split in, you can drain the car battery when you drain the utility battery to zero .. then not charge the car
[22:53:11] <feoc> fskin pigeons :P
[22:53:12] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: can you have a 6A load on them?
[22:53:21] <JymmmmEMC> feoc: lol
[22:53:21] <anonimasu> yes.
[22:53:30] <robin_sz> ds2, if you dont put a diode split in, you can drain the car battery when you drain the utility battery to zero .. then not be able to start the car
[22:53:38] <anonimasu> I think the smallest ones had a peak output of 14A
[22:53:40] <ds2> robin_sz: gotcha... it is more of load isolation
[22:53:46] <robin_sz> yeah
[22:53:55] <feoc> 6a isnt much for most batts
[22:54:02] <ds2> thought something insidious when it is charging ;)
[22:54:10] <robin_sz> ive designed multiple systems like this in professional outside broadcast vehicles
[22:54:14] <anonimasu> err actually more.. lots more..
[22:54:52] <ds2> I don't like the diode since it may prevent a full charge... much rather have something more complicated with a relay to detect if engine is running before putting it inline
[22:55:23] <archivist> I think he was using one of the alarm types
[22:55:46] <robin_sz> ds2, imagine a vehicle with 2 sets of batteries, one for equipment, one for the vehicle starting etc, an on-baord generator, mains to DC supplies, DC to mains invertors, 2 incoming separate mains feeds (main and spare) and .. a power panel to make sure it all worked .. with "normal" and "maintained" bussbars ... etc
[22:55:50] <archivist> robin_sz, I have an OB truck at home
[22:56:01] <robin_sz> archivist, ex BBC?
[22:56:04] <archivist> yup
[22:56:07] <robin_sz> which one?
[22:56:13] <archivist> MVT10
[22:56:20] <robin_sz> ooh :)
[22:56:27] <robin_sz> with the machines?
[22:56:28] <archivist> ex BBCwales
[22:56:44] <archivist> lots missing when i got it
[22:56:46] <robin_sz> 2 ampex 1" machines?
[22:57:06] <archivist> it last had sony bvh2000
[22:57:14] <robin_sz> oh OK
[22:57:25] <robin_sz> not quite so nice, but same idea
[22:57:26] <archivist> started out with ampex quad
[22:57:38] <robin_sz> yeah, I worked on quad a bit
[22:57:56] <robin_sz> thats going back some
[22:58:17] <anonimasu> http://www.io23.net/files/frame.png
[22:58:52] <archivist> some grotty pics at www.archivist.info/obtruck
[22:59:00] <robin_sz> archivist, fwiw, I did 15 years with the BBC variously in comms, studios and finally post production maintenance
[22:59:14] <archivist> fun
[22:59:28] <anonimasu> anyone got a good clue on how to clamp that part?
[22:59:58] <anonimasu> drill the small holes then use them to clamp?
[23:00:06] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: get some bandwidth already
[23:00:23] <robin_sz> archivist, ooh, I see it has the Link PLUGE generator in the rack
[23:00:34] <anonimasu> JymmmmEMC: I have plenty
[23:00:48] <anonimasu> the peering should be fast too
[23:00:49] <ds2> JymmmmEMC: stop the DDoS!
[23:00:50] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: ha!
[23:01:01] <anonimasu> seriously :/
[23:01:19] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: seriously, get some bandwidth... still trying to load that image
[23:01:38] <anonimasu> sure it isnt a nameserver issue?
[23:01:54] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: what's the ip address?
[23:02:00] <anonimasu>
[23:02:02] <ds2> anonimasu: is that running on a Z80 somewhere?
[23:02:12] <robin_sz> archivist, as a matter of interest, have you thought about holding your camera still while taking pictures?
[23:02:12] <bill2or3> pops right up for me.
[23:02:15] <ds2> web server is not responding
[23:02:26] <anonimasu> wtf.
[23:02:27] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: nope, not a dns issue
[23:02:38] <ds2> it connects but the GET on the object hangs
[23:02:44] <robin_sz> yeah
[23:02:43] <archivist> robin_sz, they are pics of pics, they need scanning
[23:02:54] <robin_sz> right
[23:02:59] <robin_sz> nioce truck
[23:03:07] <archivist> I did say grotty
[23:03:13] <robin_sz> its OK
[23:03:16] <anonimasu> does it work now?
[23:03:22] <archivist> no
[23:03:38] <archivist> not for a living its a toy now
[23:03:40] <JymmmmEMC> The image “http://www.io23.net/files/frame.png” cannot be displayed, because it contains errors.
[23:03:57] <robin_sz> archivist, , one shot has an LDK5 outside the door, you got the LDK5 too?
[23:03:59] <anonimasu> wtf.. get a better browser.. :)
[23:04:05] <archivist> yes
[23:04:09] <archivist> 2
[23:04:10] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: FF
[23:04:12] <robin_sz> ooh nice
[23:04:25] <anonimasu> let me try
[23:04:24] <robin_sz> with the Scneider lens?
[23:04:27] <archivist> they are failing though
[23:04:30] <anonimasu> works for me
[23:04:31] <ds2> got half of it and its been... 5 minutes?
[23:04:34] <anonimasu> in ff..
[23:04:41] <robin_sz> archivist, yeah? failing?
[23:04:44] <archivist> yes luvly lenses
[23:04:50] <robin_sz> great lenses
[23:04:55] <anonimasu> JymmmmEMC: did the other images work?
[23:04:56] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: oh well
[23:04:59] <robin_sz> servos in the leses are a bit tempremental
[23:05:05] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: I gave up now.
[23:05:09] <archivist> yes comms over the cable and psu dropping out
[23:05:16] <anonimasu> JymmmmEMC: did the other stuff work?
[23:05:35] <robin_sz> archivist, probably in need of a load of caps
[23:05:37] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: I gave up looking, way too long to load a single image.
[23:05:43] <anonimasu> did the other ones load properly?
[23:05:44] <robin_sz> archivist, tubes in good order?
[23:05:49] <archivist> I have two high band umatics in it now
[23:05:55] <robin_sz> ick
[23:06:02] <archivist> I have some spare tubes
[23:06:09] <anonimasu> http://graphicaddicts.net/imgbin/kZ4.png
[23:06:12] <robin_sz> stored vertically I hope?
[23:06:17] <archivist> yup
[23:06:18] <robin_sz> :)
[23:06:21] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: 404
[23:06:30] <anonimasu> wtf.
[23:07:11] <anonimasu> http://imagebin.org/9126
[23:07:13] <anonimasu> there.
[23:07:14] <feoc> archivist: thats an old bus :)
[23:07:26] <archivist> its a 7 ton lorry
[23:07:29] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: that worked (finally)
[23:07:34] <anonimasu> http://imagebin.org/9127
[23:07:40] <archivist> 12ton chassis
[23:08:16] <feoc> early 80's ?
[23:08:44] <feoc> too late to work out what T reg is :)
[23:08:47] <archivist> 1978 and a mid 80's refit
[23:08:49] <anonimasu> the last one if the complete thing
[23:09:27] <feoc> archivist: whatcha do with it ?
[23:09:31] <robin_sz> archivist, I was on the OB maint team at pebble mill for quite a while, w had SCV6, CM1, CM2 and about 4 comms trucks, an eagle tower etc
[23:10:11] <robin_sz> I did a fair bit on LDK5s and LDK14s
[23:10:14] <archivist> heh Im at burton on trent just up the road
[23:10:20] <robin_sz> ah right
[23:10:30] <robin_sz> I did 6 months at BBC nottingham once
[23:11:14] <archivist> its got some cough itv stuff in the truck now
[23:11:19] <robin_sz> many years ago ...
[23:11:27] <robin_sz> we had ... hmm ...
[23:11:39] <robin_sz> * robin_sz tries to remember the cameras at notts
[23:11:48] <robin_sz> not link110's
[23:11:52] <robin_sz> before that
[23:12:11] <archivist> marconi mkiv
[23:12:20] <anonimasu> night
[23:12:27] <archivist> or emi
[23:12:49] <robin_sz> no, it was link 110
[23:12:56] <robin_sz> it was link 125 we had at pm
[23:13:03] <archivist> I have a 4 tube in the shed
[23:13:09] <robin_sz> ooh, heh
[23:14:23] <archivist> that will take a lot of work to get going
[23:14:35] <robin_sz> yeah
[23:14:43] <robin_sz> was that 25 or 30mm plumbicons?
[23:14:50] <archivist> dnno
[23:15:20] <robin_sz> the ice block must be interesting
[23:15:58] <archivist> I have a spare in the front window which confuses people
[23:16:04] <robin_sz> nice
[23:16:37] <robin_sz> see? I know a bit more about telly stuff than yor average sheetmetal worker
[23:16:53] <archivist> hehe and er meeee
[23:17:10] <feoc> tv geeks :)
[23:17:19] <robin_sz> I lost interest when the place got full of avids
[23:17:43] <archivist> tv engineer-> electronics engineer-> clock maker
[23:17:46] <robin_sz> and editors and profesionals where replaced with 19 year old idiots
[23:17:52] <archivist> hehe
[23:18:13] <robin_sz> broadcate engineer -> programmer -> metalworker
[23:18:48] <archivist> I missed out my programming bit
[23:19:04] <archivist> still do some
[23:23:13] <JymmmmEMC> In respect to the 2% voltage drop across the resistor, http://www.davehylands.com/Machinist/CNC/CNC-Controller/Small/01-Condition-Caps.html Does that mean remove power when the voltage across the resistor is about 45V (assuming the source is 48V) ?
[23:24:15] <JymmmmEMC> or about 3V ?
[23:26:21] <archivist> ish yes
[23:26:43] <JymmmmEMC> which? 45 or 3 ?
[23:26:43] <robin_sz> 3v?
[23:26:59] <robin_sz> .9V
[23:27:09] <JymmmmEMC> thus the word "about"
[23:27:12] <robin_sz> 2% of 45 is?
[23:27:13] <archivist> 45 accross the cap or 3 or less accross the res
[23:27:48] <robin_sz> whatever
[23:27:56] <robin_sz> how old are thes caps?
[23:28:05] <JymmmmEMC> old
[23:28:09] <archivist> but as the site says nearer the 1%
[23:28:20] <robin_sz> 20 years?
[23:28:49] <archivist> could be dry as a nuns...
[23:28:52] <JymmmmEMC> It's kinda confusing first he says 1K, then he says 100 ohms
[23:29:00] <robin_sz> doesnt matter
[23:29:06] <archivist> its both one after the other
[23:29:19] <robin_sz> I wouldtn worry
[23:29:20] <JymmmmEMC> that's not what the pic shows
[23:29:43] <archivist> read the words
[23:29:54] <robin_sz> if thye are that bad, only use them if you can;t find a replacement
[23:30:29] <robin_sz> conditioning caps is usually only for vintage things in radiois yo really dont want to put a modern cap in
[23:30:51] <robin_sz> if they are that bad, just get new ones
[23:32:11] <robin_sz> they'll just be leaky and low value crap even if you do manage to condition them, assuming they actually need it in the first place
[23:33:19] <archivist> exploding electrolytics are entertaining
[23:33:37] <robin_sz> top fun!
[23:33:52] <archivist> luvly mess in tvs
[23:34:01] <robin_sz> I would reform or "condition" caps in some old piece of kit
[23:34:26] <robin_sz> but I would never dream of using caps in a new project htta started out in that condition
[23:35:30] <robin_sz> several kinds of crazy
[23:36:49] <archivist> hmm home time
[23:37:03] <robin_sz> ttfn
[23:47:04] <feoc> gnight all