#emc | Logs for 2007-06-20

[14:28:32] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/po/fr.po: french translation from Francis TISSERANT
[14:29:05] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/po/fr.po: merge from TRUNK: french translation
[14:29:27] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/emc2.files.in: french translation
[14:32:01] <The-Ball> I am trying to lear to write g-code. This is some g-code to peck drill a matrix of holes: http://pastebin.com/932678 But when running this code in EMC it stops at line 20 and does nothing (the first hole) is there something obvious that I am doing wrong?
[14:32:19] <The-Ball> s/lear/learn/g
[14:36:49] <cradek> you have no feed rate specified
[14:37:21] <cradek> so you are getting F0 (which is a bug - it should be an error)
[14:38:44] <The-Ball> oh, thanks for the quick spot
[14:40:35] <|Bo^Dick|> |Bo^Dick| is now known as Bo^Dick
[14:41:06] <jepler> fwiw this error (no F-word with G8x canned cycles) should be detected in 2.2.
[14:50:59] <jepler> MM: welcome
[14:51:36] <MM> hello
[14:53:32] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/main.lyx: clarify rigid tapping documentation etc
[14:54:54] <MM> MM is now known as mma
[14:58:01] <skunkworks> maybe the topic should be changed to add (Feed per rev and constant surface speed for lathe and rigid tapping now in trunk for testing.)
[15:08:17] <Dallur> martin_lundstrom: I'm here and at work atm
[15:09:02] <Dallur> martin_lundstrom: Expecting my new THC circuit to arrive this week so I can continue testing at that point
[15:11:13] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: So if you are at work; maybe its better we have a longer discussion later
[15:12:40] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: Anyway, I have a pretty normal start when I use the MDI but when I run gcode the z just goed to the roof
[15:12:59] <martin_lundstrom> s
[15:13:20] <martin_lundstrom> bbl
[15:20:01] <The-Ball> looks like i will have to build a constant rpm device for the dremel, pretty useless when drilling
[15:20:47] <SWPadnos> how constant are you shooting for?
[15:21:08] <The-Ball> a couple of thousand rpm
[15:21:19] <SWPadnos> there are "pro" dremels with speed control (mine has an LCD that shows the set RPM in krpm)
[15:21:29] <SWPadnos> from 5 to 30k, I think
[15:21:36] <The-Ball> oh, nice, problem solved
[15:21:54] <archivist> I dont think the pro one holds its speed well
[15:22:35] <SWPadnos> ok, it's the "Dremel Digital", and the range is 5k to 35k RPM
[15:23:12] <archivist> I keep wearing dremels out
[15:23:14] <SWPadnos> it has noticeable PID - when you turn it on, it overshoots then settles back
[15:23:20] <The-Ball> i was making a video with peck drilling and setting the speed ok with no load made the spindle stop when drillig, but manualy adjusting the speed when it started drilling it had enough grunt to drill
[15:23:24] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure how well it maintains speed during a cut though
[15:23:54] <SWPadnos> this one is actually speed controlled, not the slide switch on the side like the older ones
[15:24:18] <SWPadnos> I don't know if this model is still available - it was given to me 4 or 5 years ago
[15:24:35] <The-Ball> hopefully the newer models are not worse at maintaining speed
[15:24:57] <archivist> my pro speed controlled one had a segment fly out the commutator :(
[15:24:58] <SWPadnos> hopefully, but it may be like the old Sears line of digital table saws and stuff
[15:28:16] <cradek> there's got to be a simple cheap high-speed spindle that's better than a dremel
[15:28:28] <cradek> they seem like a terrible solution to this problem
[15:28:45] <skunkworks> I have had good luck with the rotozip style
[15:29:03] <skunkworks> a bit more umph
[15:29:45] <The-Ball> are they speed regulated ?
[15:29:49] <skunkworks> No
[15:29:56] <skunkworks> not the one I have anyways
[15:30:00] <skunkworks> 2 speed
[15:30:14] <cradek> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47050
[15:30:34] <cradek> I don't have a good feel for how much air 4 CFM is
[15:30:40] <skunkworks> and earplugs ;)
[15:32:05] <The-Ball> hehe, yeah, i did a few holes now, it's 0130 so hope the wall-to-wall neighbour sleeps deeply
[15:32:44] <Dallur> martin_lundstrom: probably it's zeroing the Z axis to the top
[15:33:11] <Dallur> martin_lundstrom: do you have limit/home switches on the axis ? It should drive to your home switch and stop there
[15:54:14] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: Its not possible to do home
[15:55:30] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: When doing home z goes to the sky
[15:55:38] <martin_lundstrom> bbl
[16:24:35] <Dallur> martin_lundstrom: With the current config the machine always homes to top before doing any X/Y moves, this is done to protect you from ramming your torch into work pieces, I don't see any other way to keep the torch out of harms way
[16:33:55] <The-Ball> when doing for example peck drilling, how does emc know what feed rate to use for withdrawing and reinserting the drill bit?
[16:34:30] <cradek> I think those are rapids, but you should check the docs to make sure
[16:34:41] <SWPadnos> it should be feed rate down, and possibly rapid up
[16:34:48] <SWPadnos> but you should check the docs to be sure ;)
[16:35:03] <cradek> I think it rapids down to "near" the previous depth
[16:35:10] <SWPadnos> ok, that part should be a rapid
[16:35:12] <cradek> but, you should check the docs to be sure
[16:35:20] <SWPadnos> indeed. I've heard that
[16:37:03] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode/main/#711
[16:37:59] <cradek> hmm, I think #5 should say `steps 2,3,4'
[16:38:30] <The-Ball> Can you specify the rapid speed in the gcode?
[16:38:34] <cradek> no
[16:39:42] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/main.lyx: fix enumeration problem
[16:43:50] <The-Ball> this is the video i was making: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6avL3ZYTIQ
[16:44:36] <The-Ball> as you can see i had to adjust the dremel speed all the time, so some times it generated long strings other times only tiny chip fragments
[16:45:16] <cradek> it's hard to do any heavy cutting with a spindle like that
[16:45:54] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/main.lyx: reference: rigid tap gcode
[16:46:31] <The-Ball> yes i guess, it's only a 1.5mm bit in alu though
[16:46:50] <cradek> it might help a lot to use some kerosene/alumicut/rapidtap/oil
[16:47:16] <The-Ball> yes, i did spray the bit and the surface with wd40 before i started the video
[16:47:21] <cradek> /wd40
[16:47:22] <cradek> :-)
[16:54:58] <skunkworks> The-Ball: what did you end up using to run your z axis? gecko?
[16:58:03] <The_Ball_> yes, still the gecko, i want to have all axis on the pluto though
[16:59:42] <The_Ball_> with the new gearing i get about 20mm/s which isn't to bad
[17:00:50] <The_Ball_> that would work out to 47IPM i guess
[17:06:20] <skunkworks> Nice
[17:08:16] <The_Ball_> i would like to build one of your little quadrature dividers, about 1:2 should be nice
[17:08:36] <skunkworks> That would be cradek/jepler
[17:08:59] <The_Ball_> oh, that might be yes, but if it goes on the pluto it wouldn't matter
[17:10:37] <skunkworks> right - the pluto can count enecoders at very high speeds
[17:11:14] <The_Ball_> do you have the g-code for those nice pwm boards of yours?
[17:11:42] <The_Ball_> i'll just get milling on that instead
[17:19:14] <skunkworks> :)
[17:19:24] <skunkworks> I will have to look. I might have it here.
[17:29:37] <skunkworks> The_Ball_: http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/servostart/schem/
[17:30:07] <The_Ball_> thanks a lot!
[17:30:40] <The_Ball_> are they for 60 or 30 degree bits?
[17:31:15] <skunkworks> 60 - well I think it is set to .01 isolations
[17:31:33] <skunkworks> and 1/16 mill for clearing.
[17:32:09] <skunkworks> if you need differnt - you will have to use eagle and jepler/cradeks gcode eagle script.
[17:32:38] <The_Ball_> im sure that's fine. i haven't gotten around to trying that script yet
[17:38:18] <skunkworks> The_Ball_: that would be a great video - cutting at 20ipm.
[17:54:25] <The-Ball> skunkworks, cutting the pcb?
[17:54:56] <The-Ball> that would be more than 10 minutes, but i can do a time lapse video of it
[17:55:54] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 looks for rails.
[17:59:26] <skunkworks> Yes
[17:59:54] <The-Ball> ok, will do, tomorrow, 0358 time for sleep
[18:11:56] <anonimasu> hi
[18:29:57] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: I get the idea, but which is the config value then? isnt it HOME in plasma_mm.ini? if it is this "HOME" when I press Home all z passes this value
[18:33:21] <toastydeath> beeeeep
[18:34:06] <cradek> martin_lundstrom: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini_homing/index.html
[18:40:30] <JymmmmEMC> mornin folks
[18:42:28] <skunkworks> JymmmmEMC: looks like recently the 650 have been going to close to $100
[18:42:34] <skunkworks> a peice
[18:42:36] <skunkworks> piece
[18:42:56] <JymmmmEMC> skunkworks: ah, good to know.
[18:43:23] <JymmmmEMC> skunkworks: I'm still reading the manual for the 750's, eeeesh 90 pages
[18:46:13] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: Would I need a home switch on Z to get to work?
[18:46:22] <skunkworks> ok close to $100 (I am a big rounder) http://cgi.ebay.com/Parker-Compumotor-OEM-Series-OEM-650-Stepper-Drive_W0QQitemZ180127472187QQihZ008QQcategoryZ71394QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[18:48:34] <Usman> Hi, there
[18:48:59] <jepler> welcome Usman
[18:49:18] <Usman> thanks
[18:49:41] <Usman> i have some questions to ask ..
[18:50:09] <skunkworks> ask away
[18:53:34] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: By setting HOME_SEARCH_VEL to 0 on Z got the home problem settled with Z now ,I get X and Y to go negative forever
[18:55:00] <jepler> martin_lundstrom: you should take a deep breath and read the homing documentation cradek suggested to you earlier -- http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/config/ini_homing/index.html -- once you understand homing you can make it work for your machine
[18:56:03] <Usman> I am trying to install emc2 on fedora core 5, but still did not succeed. I am unable to install rtai. I have red your (jepler) guide to install rtai on fedora core 3 and follow the same steps but invain. Then I found some help on emc knowledge base to get rtai from special site (they suggested on their site) but there I am unable to find the rtai version for 2.6.15 kernel
[18:57:01] <cradek> Usman: are you wanting to run machinery with it, or just play with it?
[18:57:25] <cradek> you only need realtime/rtai if you want to run machinery
[19:00:30] <Usman> I need to trial emc2 running a machinery with it. But problem is I cannot change my fedora plateform as I have my accounts software that runs only on fedora.
[19:00:32] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: Now I got the homing to work, I think
[19:01:07] <cradek> did you find the rtai installation manual?
[19:01:29] <cradek> (or do you have a separate old machine you could use?)
[19:03:55] <Usman> Yes I found some installation guides on emc knowledge base
[19:05:26] <jepler> there are a number of patches for the 2.6.15 kernel in the old rtai version 3.3.
[19:06:13] <cradek> other than saying "search online" we are unlikely to be able to help without a more precise description of the problem you are having
[19:06:17] <jepler> there's also a 2.6.15 patch in the current rai version 3.5.
[19:06:25] <jepler> current *rtai* version, that is
[19:06:55] <jepler> if the patch does not apply to your kernel it is likely to be because of kernel patches that fedora have already applied to 2.6.15 -- usually the advice from the rtai people is to start with a vanilla kernel, not a distribution kernel
[19:07:29] <jepler> https://mail.rtai.org/pipermail/rtai/2006-April/014779.html
[19:08:24] <Usman> could you suggest me the site from where i can find that patch. On emc knowledge base they recommend to download from (http://download.gna.org/rtai/stable/v3). But it contains only upto rtai 3.2 patch
[19:08:39] <jepler> https://www.rtai.org/RTAI/
[19:10:00] <jepler> bbl
[19:35:08] <skunkworks> Got a great first comment on the video :( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNn-Yr7it5s#GU5U2spHI_4
[19:37:34] <Usman> I succeded installing rtai on fedora core2 but when I tried to compile emc2 on it, it gives an error of some wrongly declared variable. Then I tried to find the compat gcc 32 and compat gcc 32 c++ but unable to find them.
[19:39:58] <JymmmmEMC> skunkworks: if they consider that a lot of shit, they aint seen nuttin yet!
[19:48:13] <archivist> skunkworks, heh better not let that person see in here
[19:48:27] <skunkworks> :)
[19:49:32] <archivist> hmm I need an encoder to play with
[19:49:43] <JymmmmEMC> On a six lead stepper, what is SERIES (CT and one end) and PARALLEL END to END) wiring or the other way around?
[19:50:17] <cradek> you can't do parallel
[19:50:25] <cradek> you get series by ignoring the two CT wires
[19:50:39] <JymmmmEMC> ok, so ignore the CT completely?
[19:50:44] <JymmmmEMC> CT's
[19:50:51] <cradek> if you want to run the as bipolar, yes
[19:50:54] <martin_lundstrom> Good bye everyone
[19:50:55] <cradek> them
[19:51:33] <skunkworks> unless you get in and re-wire the taps. PITA
[19:51:44] <JymmmmEMC> cradek: ok, thanks. trying to bench test these, but the wiring diagram is a bit confuseing between the motor and the drive docs
[20:05:36] <JymmmmEMC> skunkworks: do you know if you need the resistor in place during test mode?
[20:06:42] <skunkworks> I think so - other wise it doesn't know what current you want.
[20:09:34] <JymmmmEMC> it has dip switches too for setting current level
[20:14:31] <JymmmmEMC> Of course I'm out of the the crimp-ons I need, how silly of me to think I'd have the pieces I need when I'm in a hurry. *sigh*
[20:33:07] <robin_z> time for ....
[20:33:15] <robin_z> bhaji!
[20:33:19] <bill2or3> naps?
[20:33:34] <robin_z> nope, thats later
[20:33:40] <robin_z> now its bhaji time
[20:33:49] <bill2or3> ok, keep me posted.
[20:35:17] <skunkworks> bill2or3: How is it going?
[20:35:33] <bill2or3> not too bad, been pretty busy.
[20:36:01] <skunkworks> have not seen you on for a while.
[20:36:05] <bill2or3> my latest project: http://www.xmission.com/~bill/P1000713.JPG
[20:36:09] <skunkworks> not that I live on here ;)
[20:36:17] <bill2or3> of couse you dont. :-)
[20:36:23] <bill2or3> err, course.
[20:36:30] <skunkworks> cnc'ed?
[20:36:54] <skunkworks> :)
[20:36:58] <bill2or3> not yet.
[20:37:06] <skunkworks> I ment the baby ;)
[20:37:06] <JymmmmEMC> !!!!! ITS ALIVE !!!!!
[20:37:07] <JymmmmEMC> !!!!! ITS ALIVE !!!!!
[20:37:08] <JymmmmEMC> !!!!! ITS ALIVE !!!!!
[20:37:12] <skunkworks> congradulations
[20:37:18] <skunkworks> congratulations
[20:37:19] <bill2or3> thanks.
[20:37:22] <bill2or3> it's a trip, for sure.
[20:45:16] <JymmmmEMC> robin_z: is that what you kids are calling it these days
[20:48:26] <anonimasu> robin_z:
[20:48:27] <anonimasu> wake up
[20:51:41] <ds2> Hmmm
[20:58:34] <JymmmmEMC> !!!!! #2 IS ALIVE !!!!!
[21:01:26] <archivist> hmm would be nice if the live cd had the size listed on the web page (including the mirror) /me normally has fullish hard disks
[21:02:05] <skunkworks> You got to figure it is going to be about cd size ;)
[21:02:12] <skunkworks> at the most
[21:02:14] <JymmmmEMC> archivist: You only have less then 1GB availbel to you?!?!?!? I think someone needs to get a DVD burner and a CASE of blanks
[21:02:33] <JymmmmEMC> or a NAS box
[21:02:47] <archivist> bah 70 meg free
[21:02:55] <JymmmmEMC> WTF?!?!
[21:03:11] <cradek> without checking the exact size I can tell you that's not enough
[21:03:15] <JymmmmEMC> I'm extrmely low on hdd space when I have less than 20GB available
[21:04:05] <archivist> * archivist contemplates which box to attack
[21:04:28] <skunkworks> nothing a good fdisk wouldn't fix
[21:04:45] <archivist> wot and lose all my pics
[21:04:46] <JymmmmEMC> lol skunkworks said, I was thinking it =)
[21:04:54] <JymmmmEMC> archivist: dvd burner
[21:05:02] <JymmmmEMC> lol skunkworks said it, I was thinking it =)
[21:05:25] <archivist> dvd burner is 10 miles from here
[21:05:26] <JymmmmEMC> archivist: if they are unreplacable photos, you might use CD instead
[21:05:56] <JymmmmEMC> and check the quality of the blanks, even brand name, before archiving
[21:06:06] <JymmmmEMC> on cdfreaks
[21:06:27] <skunkworks> I store my photos on punch tape.
[21:07:01] <JymmmmEMC> I believe it
[21:07:08] <archivist> I de-duped and got 30 meg back yesterday
[21:07:35] <JymmmmEMC> archivist: are you using small drives, or just junk collecting crap?
[21:07:43] <skunkworks> actually - I would trust keychain drives more.. buy a few 1gb drives and store them in a safe.
[21:08:03] <JymmmmEMC> skunkworks: I wouldn't, wanna guess why???
[21:08:09] <archivist> usb stick is full as well
[21:08:21] <skunkworks> nuclear war?
[21:08:37] <JymmmmEMC> skunkworks: corruption, guess how I know?
[21:08:49] <skunkworks> nuclear war?
[21:08:49] <JymmmmEMC> archivist: then clear out your porn collection already
[21:09:08] <JymmmmEMC> skunkworks: yep, that's it =)
[21:10:13] <skunkworks> or a very large sun spot ;)
[21:10:44] <skunkworks> wait - didn't one of the evil guys in james bond have a chip that was immune to that?
[21:10:51] <JymmmmEMC> I think were almost over that cycle, aren't we?
[21:13:51] <JymmmmEMC> !!!!! #3 IS ALIVE !!!!!
[21:14:59] <JymmmmEMC> Can't test the 650's till I print and RTFM the manual
[21:16:52] <JymmmmEMC> skunkworks: these can do 50,000 microstepping, what can drive that (just curious)?
[21:20:16] <skunkworks> external step generators
[21:20:23] <anonimasu> usc
[21:20:26] <skunkworks> like jone board
[21:20:29] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: yeah?
[21:20:38] <anonimasu> that's the one board ;)
[21:20:51] <skunkworks> The mesa will in the future.
[21:20:56] <JymmmmEMC> anonimasu: it can do that good hih?
[21:21:00] <JymmmmEMC> huh
[21:21:01] <anonimasu> yes
[21:21:20] <JymmmmEMC> good to know at least.
[21:21:28] <skunkworks> http://www.pico-systems.com/univstep.html
[21:21:30] <anonimasu> it's http://www.pico-systems.com/univstep.html
[21:21:36] <anonimasu> Greater step rate speeds than software, up to 300,000 steps/second/axis
[21:21:37] <skunkworks> beat you ;)
[21:21:40] <JymmmmEMC> yeah, just forgot about it.
[21:23:16] <JymmmmEMC> these also have a gear pin, guess I could do 500,000 microstepping!!! LOL
[21:24:05] <skunkworks> * skunkworks thinks JymmmmEMC has a thing for microstepping.
[21:24:10] <anonimasu> me too
[21:25:22] <skunkworks> * skunkworks thinks when JymmmmEMC gets his machine running he will not go over 1000 steps per rev.
[21:25:27] <JymmmmEMC> heh, yeah.... goin from xylotex, to reading geckos rants and raves, to something that has the capability to do 50k is just kinda cool is all. Not that I'll ever use it in RL,
[21:25:39] <anonimasu> skunkworks: true
[21:27:03] <archivist> its a bigger number it must be better
[21:27:08] <JymmmmEMC> well, lets see... 5TPI ballscrews on 2:1 pulleys = 10TPI @ 10microstep on a 200SPR motor
[21:27:38] <JymmmmEMC> hell if I know how to cals the SPR
[21:27:43] <JymmmmEMC> calc
[21:28:22] <centaur> Hi - newbie, a little confused as to what axis speeds (inches per minute) I can get from EMC2 using the Mesa or Pluto controller boards. I have 29lb/in motors and drives - encoders 1000lpr (4000 quad) - thanks
[21:28:33] <JymmmmEMC> with a base period of 18500 ns
[21:28:50] <robin_z> centaur, almost any speed you want
[21:29:11] <centaur> 250 inches/min?
[21:29:19] <robin_z> sure
[21:29:22] <JymmmmEMC> skunkworks: so what SPR will I be doing?
[21:29:35] <centaur> thanks
[21:29:37] <robin_z> centaur, depending
[21:29:46] <robin_z> on how many turns per inch of course
[21:29:49] <archivist> depends on mass being moved
[21:29:56] <robin_z> archivist, wrong
[21:30:15] <robin_z> mass affects acceleration, not speed
[21:30:21] <anonimasu> centaur: almost as much as you'd like..
[21:30:27] <anonimasu> centaur: given the limits of your hardware
[21:30:28] <centaur> 5 tpi/ 2:1 pulleys (smaller on motor) Bridgeport size mill
[21:30:54] <anonimasu> with a mesa/pluto the limit is the max speed of your motors..
[21:30:55] <anonimasu> I guess
[21:30:56] <robin_z> whats 29 lb in in proper units?
[21:31:28] <centaur> i am ignorant on coversion to n/m
[21:31:41] <anonimasu> 29 pounds = 13.1541787 kilograms
[21:31:46] <robin_z> yeah, I cant do libyan to european
[21:31:48] <anonimasu> 1.3 nm
[21:31:58] <centaur> thanks
[21:32:06] <robin_z> nah
[21:32:13] <anonimasu> I think..
[21:32:14] <anonimasu> :D
[21:32:27] <robin_z> 130N / 39
[21:32:27] <JymmmmEMC> whats the metric units?
[21:32:31] <robin_z> Nm
[21:33:00] <anonimasu> robin_z: where did you get that from?
[21:33:04] <JymmmmEMC> nm what?
[21:33:06] <robin_z> 3.3 Nm
[21:33:13] <maerz_> maerz_ is now known as maerz
[21:33:27] <robin_z> anonimasu, 13kg, x 9.81 =~ 130N right?
[21:33:45] <JymmmmEMC> lb in to nm something?
[21:33:47] <anonimasu> ah.. yeah
[21:33:55] <robin_z> 39 inches per metre I think, not sure about converting from libyan to metres, i think there are 39 of em per metre
[21:34:11] <anonimasu> I dont get where you got 39 from
[21:34:19] <robin_z> 39 inches per metre
[21:34:27] <anonimasu> 10nm = 1 kg at a 1m pole..
[21:34:36] <anonimasu> oh yeah
[21:34:39] <anonimasu> that's where it comes from
[21:34:48] <robin_z> * robin_z throws anonimasu a fish
[21:35:03] <anonimasu> * anonimasu takes a bite
[21:35:05] <JymmmmEMC> robin_z: what is the full untis nm [what]?
[21:35:14] <centaur> I notice somenoe else is aking about step rates relative to stepper config on EMC2. There are some stepper/servo control boards which take encoder inputs and provide a +/-10V control signal - will EMC2 get us to 250 ipm rapid rates given the h/w above?
[21:35:21] <robin_z> Nm, Newton metres
[21:36:06] <robin_z> JymmmmEMC, the Newton is the unit of force, the metre is the unit of lenght
[21:36:09] <anonimasu> there's a calculation for that on the wiki
[21:36:22] <centaur> thanks
[21:36:25] <anonimasu> but with a servo you can go as fast as your motor/gearing allows
[21:36:30] <robin_z> so ... 3.3Nm
[21:36:52] <robin_z> 6.6 after geraing
[21:36:55] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu: you don't know of an easier to aquire stepper driver than geckos that are any good?
[21:36:56] <JymmmmEMC> http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&client=iceweasel-a&rls=org.debian%3Aen-US%3Aunofficial&q=29+lb+in+to+oz+in&btnG=Search
[21:37:08] <robin_z> i turn moves it 5mm roughly
[21:37:54] <robin_z> to force on mil = 6.6 * (6280/5) * 70%
[21:37:55] <JymmmmEMC> 9 (pound in) = 334.11614 g m
[21:38:05] <robin_z> what the f is that?
[21:38:06] <JymmmmEMC> 29 (pound in) = 334.11614 g m
[21:38:10] <robin_z> g m?
[21:38:16] <robin_z> whats a g m?
[21:38:21] <lerneaen_hydra> gram meters?
[21:38:26] <JymmmmEMC> http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&client=iceweasel-a&rls=org.debian%3Aen-US%3Aunofficial&q=29+lb+in+to+g+m&btnG=Search
[21:38:29] <robin_z> no such thing is there>?
[21:38:45] <lerneaen_hydra> you can measure torque in any force/distance units
[21:38:52] <robin_z> I know
[21:39:00] <robin_z> but a gramme is a unit of mass
[21:39:03] <lerneaen_hydra> mm/hg*furlong
[21:39:18] <lerneaen_hydra> ah, that assumes that you're on earth blah blah
[21:39:28] <lerneaen_hydra> 9.82 and all
[21:39:41] <robin_z> I'll stick to the recongised units thanks
[21:39:48] <lerneaen_hydra> I can imagine ;)
[21:40:12] <centaur> thanks everyone - i'll check the wiki for the stepper calcs - logging off
[21:40:19] <robin_z> stepper?
[21:40:23] <robin_z> * robin_z shrugs
[21:40:23] <anonimasu> :)
[21:41:37] <ds2> why do people go with the geckos given the price of a basic servo system?
[21:42:01] <robin_z> ds2, because geckos are about 1/4 of thew price of servos?
[21:42:17] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu: there?
[21:42:19] <anonimasu> yes
[21:42:19] <ds2> robin_z: eh?
[21:42:39] <robin_z> ds2, for 200W per axis, steppers win
[21:42:48] <robin_z> 200 to 400 ... take your pick
[21:42:48] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu: do you know of any other stepper driver other than the gecko thats easier to aquire in sweden
[21:42:53] <robin_z> 400w +, servos win
[21:42:55] <lerneaen_hydra> or is it worth the trouble
[21:42:59] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: Geckos are dead easy to aquire..
[21:43:05] <robin_z> * robin_z nods
[21:43:07] <anonimasu> :)
[21:43:20] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: there are other ones, $random brand, but they are expensive
[21:43:23] <anonimasu> www.solectro.se
[21:43:36] <anonimasu> and www.aratron.se
[21:43:47] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu: the problem is I've got people bitching and going all "geckos are expensive" and "can't we get something from sweden" and "geckos are overpriced"
[21:44:05] <lerneaen_hydra> and some more "geckos are expensive"
[21:44:10] <anonimasu> well, tell them to fsck off..
[21:44:14] <anonimasu> geckos are cheap..
[21:44:20] <anonimasu> if they want a cheap drive build one with a allegro..
[21:44:24] <lerneaen_hydra> tell me about it
[21:44:29] <robin_z> and watch it go bang
[21:44:31] <anonimasu> yep
[21:44:35] <robin_z> geckos are a bargain
[21:44:46] <anonimasu> solectro's drives are very expensive.
[21:44:49] <ds2> robin_z: service + step/dir board ready to go is $500 flat... doesn't geckos get close to that?
[21:45:05] <anonimasu> the aratron ones arent, but they arent that good..
[21:45:12] <robin_z> ds2, what does that mean in english?
[21:45:25] <anonimasu> ds2: you dont seriously belive that people buy step/dir boards?
[21:45:29] <lerneaen_hydra> not to mention people going all "we need a field-bus for a 3-stepper system with intelligent nodes and the PC all non-rt"
[21:45:30] <ds2> robin_z: a 2axis service system that takes step dir input is only 500
[21:45:37] <robin_z> service?
[21:45:49] <robin_z> ds2, oh servo
[21:45:53] <ds2> anonimasu: I donno what people buy, I just came across this and seems like a good way to get started
[21:45:54] <robin_z> step dir servo?
[21:45:59] <ds2> oops, typo... servo
[21:46:00] <robin_z> waste of time
[21:46:12] <anonimasu> -----------------------------
[21:46:18] <anonimasu> err just to get you to read it :)
[21:46:28] <ds2> waste of time but isn't the whole argument servos are better
[21:46:42] <anonimasu> ds2: depends on your budget.
[21:46:45] <robin_z> so ... step pulse generation ... to drive, to motor and encoder
[21:46:52] <ds2> anonimasu: these boards take a step/dir input from the paralell port
[21:46:55] <anonimasu> yes
[21:46:57] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu: do you remember the shipping cost for the geckos?
[21:47:04] <anonimasu> 25$
[21:47:07] <lerneaen_hydra> :o
[21:47:08] <anonimasu> and the damn tax.
[21:47:09] <robin_z> so for system with geckos ... step pulse generation is exactly the same
[21:47:09] <lerneaen_hydra> damn that's cheap
[21:47:15] <ds2> anonimasu: yes but hte price is close enough
[21:47:18] <robin_z> drives, lets assume they cost the same
[21:47:24] <anonimasu> ds2: no, it's not close enouigh
[21:47:28] <ds2> thsi is what I am trying to compare to gecko + steppers:
[21:47:33] <lerneaen_hydra> so $25 for shipping and 900sek for import tax?
[21:47:34] <ds2> http://www.cadcamcadcam.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=131
[21:47:38] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:47:40] <robin_z> motors, well, servo, stepper .. same
[21:47:45] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu: oh, not bad at all
[21:47:49] <ds2> or are those things a waste of time?
[21:47:50] <robin_z> so the servo system just nbeeds encoders
[21:47:58] <robin_z> yes, waste of time
[21:48:08] <ds2> any particular reason?
[21:48:18] <robin_z> loop closed outside emc
[21:48:29] <anonimasu> 150W also..
[21:48:30] <ds2> (if i ever manage to complete a lathe sale, I am looking to do some refiting...)
[21:48:37] <anonimasu> steppers give more bang for the buck.. at that size..
[21:48:43] <robin_z> yeah
[21:48:48] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: nope
[21:48:50] <robin_z> sub 200w go for steppers
[21:48:56] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: solectro takes like 2600sek per driver..
[21:48:59] <robin_z> 200 to 400 , its up for grabs
[21:49:01] <ds2> so I can get stepers + geck drives for 2 axises for <$500?
[21:49:03] <robin_z> 400 + ... servos
[21:49:07] <anonimasu> yes
[21:49:09] <ds2> gecko
[21:49:23] <robin_z> sure
[21:49:29] <robin_z> 120 $ an axis
[21:49:32] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: dosent sound that bad does it?
[21:49:53] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu: not at all
[21:50:03] <lerneaen_hydra> now I just need to convince the others...
[21:50:04] <lerneaen_hydra> fun fun
[21:50:07] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: the swedish alternatives are worse/more expensive..
[21:50:11] <anonimasu> call solectro for a quote..
[21:50:11] <lerneaen_hydra> ah ok
[21:50:14] <ds2> hmmm
[21:50:19] <anonimasu> or ask me tomorrow when im at work..
[21:56:21] <ds2> so if there is no advantages to going with something like the above servo; am I correct in saying a G202 + bipolar stepper + ps is all I need to hook it to the parallel port and let EMC at it?
[21:56:58] <anonimasu> yes
[22:03:12] <ds2> what do I gain by going with a chopper drive like a gecko over what is described as a resistor limited drive from the 60's era?
[22:03:52] <JymmmmEMC> ds2: steppers?
[22:04:07] <ds2> yes, steppers
[22:04:12] <JymmmmEMC> ds2: Right off the bat... mid-band compensation
[22:04:45] <ds2> Hmm
[22:04:48] <JymmmmEMC> ds2: and as ANYONE here can tell you, I've been batling that for 24+ months.
[22:06:05] <ds2> well... from what I have seen you say, it isn't too horrible of a problem
[22:07:04] <jepler> ds2: a chopper drive gives constant torque over a much larger RPM range than a resistor-limited drive. it gives less power dissipation.
[22:07:11] <ds2> The taig controller looses steps every now and then
[22:07:48] <lerneaen_hydra> 'night
[22:08:30] <archivist> theres lots to learn with stepper driving
[22:08:37] <ds2> jepler: other then complexity, is there a counter trade off (like shorter life on the motor, etc)
[22:08:42] <jepler> ds2: as an example from a small mill (maxnc 10 with <200 oz-in steppers), switching from the original driver box with a big power resistor to an L298 (not nearly as fancy as a gecko, and lower voltage) increased rapids from 8IPM to 20IPM
[22:09:18] <jepler> (that was also a switch from unipolar to bipolar wiring)
[22:09:58] <ds2> 20IPM over how long of a distance? I'd imagine you can't do 20IPM if you are just moving 0.5"
[22:10:00] <jepler> ds2: chopper drivers often make a hiss or whine. they work less well when the DC motor bus is also a switching power supply (and some people say chopper stepper drivers kill switching power supplies)
[22:11:52] <jepler> ds2: I don't know if choppers make a big difference in acceleration or not.
[22:12:37] <archivist> yes they can hammer more current during the accel
[22:14:10] <ds2> what about the bottom line... if you were getting a 60's era CNC table top lathe with resistor drives... would you put in the $200-$300 to upgrade it to a choper drive?
[22:15:49] <jepler> yes, unless I wanted to go all the way to CL servo
[22:16:26] <ds2> cool
[22:16:55] <ds2> CL servos seems to be a nice thing to try out but it doesn't seem to economical to do :/
[22:17:37] <ds2> thanks for the insite
[22:17:52] <jepler> you might want to read this application note: http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/an/1679.pdf
[22:18:04] <jepler> most of what it says applies regardless of exactly which drivers you buy
[22:20:29] <jepler> bbl
[22:56:31] <Ziegler> this is darn cool: http://www.hauntedfrog.com/gt/movies/2007/duckon/SingingTeslaShow.html