#emc | Logs for 2007-05-31

[00:00:03] <skunkworks> (4)
[00:00:05] <Ziegler> thats not a bad idea... I think I may have some scrap laying around for that
[00:00:38] <Ziegler> this is my latest progress: http://images.myonlinesite.com/cnc/construct/20070527/
[00:02:12] <skunkworks> Nice. looks like it moves Smooooth
[00:02:24] <Ziegler> yeah... its not bad :)
[00:02:50] <Ziegler> Its about 1/32" high on the left side, but I can shim it to fix that
[00:03:04] <Ziegler> good enough for wood work ;p
[00:03:31] <Ziegler> be back in a bit
[00:30:54] <toastydeath> fff
[00:31:24] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/ (arrays.c manager.c): rtapi.h should be included before any rtapi_xxx header
[00:46:42] <Ziegler> What are the "trunk" messages?
[00:47:25] <SWPadnos> code changes committed to CVS generate messages from CIA
[00:47:32] <Ziegler> ahh
[00:47:33] <Ziegler> thanks
[00:47:35] <SWPadnos> TRUNK refers to the branch of development that the commit was for
[00:47:50] <skunkworks> Trunk is like cutting edge developement
[00:48:00] <SWPadnos> no pun intended :)
[00:48:04] <Ziegler> hehe
[00:48:07] <skunkworks> :)
[00:48:29] <SWPadnos> that would be a great name for a CNC newsletter
[00:48:31] <SWPadnos> "The Cutting Edge"
[00:48:59] <toastydeath> that is so bad it's awsome.
[00:49:02] <toastydeath> *awesome.
[01:03:48] <Ziegler> * Ziegler shakes head
[01:49:04] <Ziegler> bah...
[01:49:26] <Ziegler> what bin do I start emc2 with in sim mode...
[01:50:01] <Ziegler> (ubuntu 7 install from source)
[01:51:10] <Ziegler> ahh
[01:51:13] <Ziegler> found it
[03:06:20] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/Makefile:
[03:06:20] <CIA-8> * make sure PYTHONPATH is set to include lib/python when building, so that the sys.path hack isn't necessary in comp or jmk's new script when running from make
[03:06:20] <CIA-8> * install fixes for sim systems (bfload, bfmerge do not exist -- well bfmerge doesn't exist anymore anyway)
[03:22:33] <Chris_sub_1> Good evening! Is anyone here that can help me sort out an M5I20 servo homing problem?
[03:23:32] <jmkasunich> can try
[03:23:56] <jmkasunich> you're the guy with the proxes, and the "home on limit, but limit disables the amps" issue, right?
[03:27:57] <Chris_sub_1> Yes. One prox now feeds both limits and the other prox is within the permitted range of motion.
[03:28:30] <jmkasunich> ok, what is the problem?
[03:32:16] <Chris_sub_1> 1st, 1 Q: Is it permissible to home at either end of an axis (by negating velocities)?
[03:32:42] <jmkasunich> yes
[03:33:09] <jmkasunich> the sign of search vel tells it which way to move (and thus which end it expects to find the switch at)
[03:35:48] <Chris_sub_1> OK. Search vel=-0.5, latch vel=0.01. Axis travels to limit, reverses at slower speed, but doesn't see the index pulse (which I can see getting to the input on an O-scope).
[03:36:02] <Chris_sub_1> I said limit but I meant home prox.
[03:37:17] <jmkasunich> so it sits all day inching along at 0.01 inches/sec?
[03:37:29] <Chris_sub_1> Yes.
[03:37:41] <jmkasunich> are you talking to me from your EMC PC?
[03:38:12] <Chris_sub_1> Sadly, no. I'm doing a relay race back and forth across the shop. :)
[03:38:27] <jmkasunich> no network on the machine?
[03:38:45] <jmkasunich> (I guess that explains the long delays between replies too)
[03:39:40] <chr0n1c> vnc vnc
[03:39:43] <Chris_sub_1> I am embarrassingly linux illiterate. Would it help if I got on an IRC client on the machine itself?
[03:39:53] <jmkasunich> yes, very much so
[03:39:58] <chr0n1c> gaim works ok
[03:40:01] <jmkasunich> so that machine IS on the network?
[03:40:01] <chr0n1c> for irc
[03:40:12] <Chris_sub_1> I was afraid you were going to say that. Yes it is on my net.
[03:40:35] <jmkasunich> is it an ubuntu machine (EMC live CD, or ubuntu install)
[03:40:45] <jmkasunich> if so, gaim is already installed
[03:40:47] <Chris_sub_1> Recent Ubuntu install.
[03:43:21] <jmkasunich> ok, he didn't have to leave....
[03:45:02] <toastydeath> or did he.
[03:45:21] <jmkasunich> just fire up gaim on the ubuntu machine
[03:45:25] <jmkasunich> theres room for two of him in here
[03:49:29] <Jymmm> * Jymmm lol @ jmkasunich
[03:50:43] <Jymmm> How far do you think an buffered signal could go cbale length wise?
[03:51:01] <Jymmm> 100' total loop length?
[03:51:06] <jmkasunich> how long is a piece of wood?
[03:51:20] <Jymmm> specifically chargpump
[03:51:50] <jmkasunich> what kind of buffer, what kind of cable, whats on the receiving end?
[03:51:57] <jmkasunich> you ask very open ended questions
[03:52:41] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: I want to run the chargepump signal thru the ESTOP buttons and back into the control box. The idea being that even if a cbale opened/shorted, it would still work properly.
[03:53:15] <jmkasunich> so you're gonna be running a single ended signal, no nice twisted pair or anything
[03:53:34] <Jymmm> I got shitloads of CAT5 I could use.
[03:53:55] <jmkasunich> on the other hand, you also don't give a crap about the signal - its not like you're sending serial data down a link and need to worry about line noise - its either toggleing or it isn't
[03:54:25] <Jymmm> Well, I want to make sure that the noise does falsely trigger the charge pump circuit either
[03:54:59] <jmkasunich> you do NOT want to send the outgoing signal in the same pair as the return signal, or you might get enough crosstalk to do exactly that
[03:55:04] <Jymmm> I'm considering using this http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=51
[03:55:28] <jmkasunich> yay!
[03:55:39] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: It be a single wire and the return path.
[03:55:42] <EE_Chris> Nope. Back on other PC.
[03:55:47] <jmkasunich> poo
[03:55:52] <jmkasunich> whats wrong?
[03:56:08] <jmkasunich> btw, there should be no need to shut down one IRC client before starting another one
[03:56:16] <jmkasunich> there's room for two of you in the channel
[03:56:17] <EE_Chris> I can't get gaim to sign on. I do have net connectivity.
[03:56:31] <jmkasunich> let me try
[03:56:31] <EE_Chris> Do I need to configure a different screen name?
[03:56:45] <chr0n1c> you need to set up an irc account with gaim
[03:56:51] <chr0n1c> in the accounts section
[03:56:51] <Jymmm> yes, try EEEE_Chris =)
[03:56:52] <jmkasunich> (I've never used gaim, using xchat right now - so whatever I have to do will be the same as you have to do)
[03:57:18] <cradek> I had a hard time figuring out gaim too
[03:57:20] <Jymmm> EE_Chris: There can't be duplicate nicks on IRC
[03:57:20] <chr0n1c> i found bitchx... it's pretty slick
[03:57:43] <cradek> goodnight guys
[03:57:48] <Jymmm> night chris
[03:57:48] <chr0n1c> night cradek
[03:58:00] <EE_Chris> Oh - Me stoopid mebbe. I think I used the wrong name for freenode.
[03:58:27] <jmkasunich> you did set the protocol to IRC, right? It defaults to AIM or some other teenager chat thing
[03:59:06] <jmk2> hey, its me!
[03:59:46] <jmk2> when it connected, gaim printed this: (23:57:52) freenode-connect: Received CTCP 'VERSION' (to jmk2) from freenode-connect
[03:59:57] <jmk2> then I had to do "/join #emc" and here I am
[04:00:12] <chr0n1c> http://nofingclue.com <- my new domain name.. i'm setting up drupal on it right now (and i need to turn on domain masking)
[04:00:29] <chr0n1c> i also bought nofingway.com and nofingclue.org
[04:00:32] <chr0n1c> :))
[04:00:36] <chr0n1c> about 6:oo pm today
[04:00:38] <chr0n1c> i was bored!
[04:00:57] <jmk2> oh gawd, gaim prints graphical smileys
[04:00:59] <chr0n1c> registered.. not bought i s'pose
[04:01:00] <jmk2> hey, its chris
[04:01:03] <chr0n1c> :)
[04:01:07] <Jymmm> jmk turn em off.
[04:01:07] <chr0n1c> :o
[04:01:14] <chr0n1c> ;)
[04:01:19] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich turns gaim off
[04:01:28] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c loves smileys
[04:01:37] <EE_Chri1> Head temporarily extracted from posterior.
[04:02:21] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Did you see my question about ESTOP (f2) from about 4-5 hours ago?
[04:02:29] <Jymmm> err (f1)
[04:02:36] <jmkasunich> I vaguely recall something
[04:02:44] <jmkasunich> but I don't know the answer
[04:02:58] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: So, is ESTOP both input and output from/to emc?
[04:03:15] <jmkasunich> there are two separate pins
[04:03:33] <chr0n1c> in/out/gnd
[04:03:33] <jmkasunich> one is telling the world the EMC needs to stop the machine
[04:03:43] <Jymmm> hal or paraport pins?
[04:03:45] <jmkasunich> and one is the world telling EMC that something stopped the machine
[04:03:46] <jmkasunich> HAL
[04:04:04] <chr0n1c> oh.. i was wrong.. again
[04:04:06] <jmkasunich> its up to you whether they go to the parport, or a mesa card, or nowhere at all
[04:04:34] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Ok, just wanted to make sure I understood the concept correctly.
[04:04:59] <jmkasunich> EE_Chri1: ok, where are we
[04:05:02] <Jymmm> I never realize that EMC can "power up" the controller box.
[04:05:20] <EE_Chri1> I recall reading something about an aborted homing cycle hosing up the M5I20 fpga. Is that a potential problem while I'm debugging this?
[04:05:41] <jmkasunich> I don't know what you read or where, but I doubt it
[04:06:17] <jmkasunich> what kind of machine is this? sherline sized, mill-drill sized, bport, or machining center?
[04:06:34] <EE_Chri1> So, I come back off the home prox and then the index pulses are never seen...
[04:06:48] <chr0n1c> Jymmm, what would you host at the domain, nofingway.com
[04:06:56] <EE_Chri1> Hurco KM3 (factory CNC knee mill)
[04:07:19] <jmkasunich> ok, so pretty beefy, you can't easily spin screws by hand to check encoders, and you need to be carefull
[04:07:34] <jmkasunich> (just getting myself up to speed)
[04:07:37] <EE_Chri1> Scary machine, yes.
[04:07:57] <jmkasunich> you are checking the presence of index pulses with a real oscope, not halscope, right?
[04:08:12] <EE_Chri1> Yes.
[04:08:24] <jmkasunich> checking them where? at the 5i20 breakout board?
[04:08:40] <Jymmm> chr0n1c: chinese driving directions
[04:08:43] <EE_Chri1> I'm crawling slowly enough that they could not conceivable be missed, even by this PC. :)
[04:09:03] <jmkasunich> the 5i20 is supposed to spot them in hardware, so the pc doesn't even matter
[04:09:11] <EE_Chri1> Have I possibly missed hooking something up in the ini or hal files?
[04:09:19] <jmkasunich> but if they're not making it to the FPGA, or the FPGA hasn't been told to look for them....
[04:09:28] <jmkasunich> thats why I'm asking questions
[04:09:49] <jmkasunich> where are you scopeing the index (physically)? at the 5i20 breakout board?
[04:09:50] <EE_Chri1> That 2nd part is interesting...there is an enable generated by EMC during the homing cycle?
[04:09:55] <jmkasunich> yes
[04:10:22] <jmkasunich> where are you scopeing the index (physically)? at the 5i20 breakout board?
[04:10:27] <EE_Chri1> Yes, pin 8 IDX0
[04:10:31] <chr0n1c> Jymmm: driving directions in chinese or directions to drive to china
[04:10:33] <jmkasunich> ok
[04:10:44] <chr0n1c> Jymmm: please clarify
[04:10:47] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c rofl
[04:10:53] <Jymmm> chr0n1c: yes
[04:10:55] <EE_Chri1> low idle, high pulse
[04:11:11] <chr0n1c> jymm: awesome
[04:11:49] <jmkasunich> EE_Chri1: I'm not sure what polarity the FPGA expects, but at worse you'd be off by one count because of triggering on the wrong edge, so lets ignore that for now
[04:11:52] <jmkasunich> have you ever used halscope?
[04:12:01] <EE_Chri1> A bit.
[04:12:06] <jmkasunich> great
[04:12:17] <jmkasunich> can you start it up now (I assume you have EMC running?)
[04:13:31] <jmkasunich> oh... what config did you start with?
[04:13:34] <EE_Chri1> Its running. Trigger on m5i20.0.enc-00-index?
[04:13:44] <EE_Chri1> M5I20
[04:14:12] <jmkasunich> did you uncomment the index related lines near the end of m5i20_motion.hal?
[04:14:36] <EE_Chri1> The ones that said they were commented for pending driver changes?
[04:14:41] <jmkasunich> yes
[04:14:52] <EE_Chri1> (turning red...)
[04:15:05] <jmkasunich> I bet your indexes aren't hooked up
[04:15:23] <EE_Chri1> I bet you're right. Try it now?
[04:15:26] <jmkasunich> however, I might be turning red soon, because I'm not sure the existing 5i20 driver properly handles indexing
[04:15:41] <jmkasunich> if scope is still running its easy to check
[04:16:00] <jmkasunich> try to put a "probe" on the signal "Xindex"
[04:16:12] <jmkasunich> if there isn't such a signal, that would be a problem ;-)
[04:16:21] <EE_Chri1> FWIW, I did try using Show HAL Status to look at all things index-0 related and didn't see any activity.
[04:16:40] <jmkasunich> the index-enable signal is bidirectional
[04:17:27] <jmkasunich> its supposed to run from the axis.0.index-enable pin to the driver's index-enable pin (not sure what its called on the current 5i20 driver, but hal show pin will tell you)
[04:17:55] <jmkasunich> when EMC wants the driver to detect an index (during homing) it will set the signal high
[04:18:01] <jmkasunich> when the driver finds the index, it will set the signal low
[04:18:23] <EE_Chri1> driver=m5i20.*?
[04:18:26] <jmkasunich> one wire handshake kind of thing
[04:18:27] <jmkasunich> yes
[04:18:56] <jmkasunich> if the signal isn't connected, then emc will tell nobody in particular to detect an index, and nobody ever will...
[04:20:47] <EE_Chri1> Found the section in m5i20_motion.hal - Uncomment the whole index section?
[04:20:59] <jmkasunich> yes, I think
[04:21:17] <jmkasunich> you really need to know the proper name for the driver pin, it might not be right in that section
[04:21:37] <EE_Chri1> Checking...
[04:21:39] <jmkasunich> if emc is still running, open a shell, and do "halcmd show pin m5i20.0.enc"
[04:21:48] <jmkasunich> that will show you all the encoder related HAL pins
[04:22:04] <jmkasunich> one of them is probably named index-enable or something similar
[04:22:31] <jmkasunich> it might just be named index, but I hope thats been changed, since its confusing
[04:23:25] <EE_Chri1> 03 bit OUT TRUE m5i20.0.enc-00-idx-latch
[04:23:25] <EE_Chri1> 03 bit OUT TRUE m5i20.0.enc-00-index
[04:23:25] <EE_Chri1> 03 bit I/O FALSE m5i20.0.enc-00-latch-index
[04:23:25] <EE_Chri1> 03 float OUT -0 m5i20.0.enc-00-pos-latch
[04:23:46] <jmkasunich> latch-index is the one you want
[04:23:48] <jmkasunich> (its the bidirectional one)
[04:24:18] <jmkasunich> you do have a hardware estop, right?
[04:24:31] <jmkasunich> when you try the home sequence, be next to it
[04:24:45] <EE_Chri1> # Connect index pulses to motion controller.
[04:24:45] <EE_Chri1> # This has been commented out pending changes to the
[04:24:45] <EE_Chri1> # driver to work with the canonical encoder interface
[04:24:45] <EE_Chri1> newsig Xindex bit
[04:24:45] <EE_Chri1> newsig Yindex bit
[04:24:45] <EE_Chri1> newsig Zindex bit
[04:24:47] <EE_Chri1> linksp Xindex <= m5i20.0.enc-00-index
[04:24:47] <EE_Chri1> linksp Xindex => axis.0.index-enable
[04:24:49] <EE_Chri1> linksp Yindex <= m5i20.0.enc-01-index
[04:24:51] <EE_Chri1> linksp Yindex => axis.1.index-enable
[04:24:53] <EE_Chri1> linksp Zindex <= m5i20.0.enc-02-index
[04:24:55] <EE_Chri1> linksp Zindex => axis.2.index-enable
[04:25:02] <jmkasunich> almost
[04:25:15] <EE_Chri1> That's the existing (uncommented)
[04:25:24] <jmkasunich> change m5i20.0.enc-00-index to m5i20.0.enc-00-latch-index
[04:25:36] <jmkasunich> (and likewise for 01 and 02)
[04:26:45] <EE_Chri1> Is there a way to re-init EMC or do you just close and re-launch to re-read the config files?
[04:27:06] <jmkasunich> close and re-launch
[04:27:17] <EE_Chri1> Standby...
[04:29:59] <Jymmm> Just curious has anyone HERE used the chargepump ?
[04:30:18] <jmkasunich> we used A chargepump on the Mazak at the workshop
[04:30:24] <jmkasunich> the steve stallings board
[04:30:35] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: which one is that =)
[04:30:44] <jmkasunich> PMDX-122 I think, but not sure
[04:30:48] <jmkasunich> it was about 2 years ago
[04:30:48] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[04:31:15] <Jymmm> hard to keep names and products associated any more, lots of snake opil out there now
[04:31:17] <Jymmm> oil
[04:31:24] <jmkasunich> steve doesn't sell snake oil
[04:31:34] <jmkasunich> if he did, we'd hit him with something
[04:31:39] <Jymmm> heh
[04:31:43] <Jymmm> same diff
[04:32:09] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Well, what do you think of my idea of routing the signal thru all the eston buttons?
[04:32:19] <jmkasunich> it could work
[04:32:34] <Jymmm> I'm trying to prevent SPOF primarily
[04:33:03] <Jymmm> My only thought is if the chargepump ciruit failed.
[04:33:21] <jmkasunich> to be honest, I think you are overthinking this
[04:33:47] <jmkasunich> your machine isn't big enough to chase you across the shop, or destroy itself
[04:33:48] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Oh I know I am. Just got this fire paranoia thing.
[04:34:00] <Jymmm> Heh, you should see it start fires though =)
[04:34:15] <jmkasunich> how does the power get to the spindle? extension cord, right?
[04:34:19] <Jymmm> It's the ultimate rubbing of two sticks together.
[04:34:41] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich hands Jymmm a hatchet to keep next to the cord
[04:34:46] <Jymmm> will be via SSR when I get done.
[04:34:55] <jmkasunich> hatchet is more reliable
[04:35:12] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Yeah right.... tool cutting into live power lines.... been there, done that.
[04:35:19] <chr0n1c> hatchet with ametal handle?
[04:35:32] <jmkasunich> I'm joking of course, but my point is, you can easily just unplug the thing
[04:35:38] <Jymmm> no, dicks with rubber insulated handles =)
[04:35:49] <jmkasunich> lol
[04:35:52] <jmkasunich> I think you mean dikes
[04:35:53] <chr0n1c> keep a loop of it tied to your leg.. then when you dive away it will unlpug
[04:35:59] <chr0n1c> unplug*
[04:36:04] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: This is so I can "walk away" from it.
[04:36:16] <jmkasunich> ?
[04:36:26] <jmkasunich> you mean let it run unsupervised?
[04:36:33] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Eh, dikes be chics with dicks.
[04:36:36] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: yes
[04:36:49] <jmkasunich> in that case, your problem isn't SPOF in the estop chain
[04:36:53] <EE_Chri1> Hey, I just homed!
[04:36:59] <jmkasunich> its the fact that red buttons can't smell smoke and press themselves
[04:37:10] <jmkasunich> EE_Chri1: YAY!
[04:37:57] <chr0n1c> could you monitor the current to the spindle motor and cut estop in hal if the amps get to high / low of a load?
[04:37:59] <EE_Chri1> I had an exciting moment due to my home offset having the wrong sign on the first try, but I had the stops well inboard for just such an occasion.
[04:38:04] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: No, I want to make sure that if needed to push the red button, it'll do it's job.
[04:38:22] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: I'm installing one outside the room.
[04:38:30] <jmkasunich> if you are around to do the pushing, there is nothing more reliable than pulling out the plug
[04:38:56] <chr0n1c> the "s" key works fine for me
[04:39:02] <chr0n1c> even through vnc
[04:39:13] <jmkasunich> if you push the estop and it doesn't work, (which is EXTREMELY unlikely even with a conventional estop circuit unless you totally fsck it up), you can pull the plug
[04:39:16] <chr0n1c> or f1
[04:39:20] <jmkasunich> its not like you have a 50A three phase feed
[04:39:40] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: If I can GET to the plug you're assuming.
[04:40:15] <jmkasunich> sometimes I wonder why I even try to answer your questions
[04:40:32] <jmkasunich> you know what your situation is
[04:40:34] <jmkasunich> you know what you want
[04:40:36] <jmkasunich> so do it
[04:41:22] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: I nevre said I wasn't. I just wanted to know if anyone has run the chargepump and how it worked for them. Did the long length cause any issues, noise, etc.
[04:41:47] <jmkasunich> I've never heard of running a chargepump signal thru the estop buttons
[04:42:26] <chr0n1c> Jymmm: can you send me half the money you are throwing at this machine and i will pray for it
[04:42:26] <jmkasunich> I would be somewhat worried about crosstalk between the outgoing signal and the return signal, such that even with a button pressed, you might get enough signal to keep the pump happy
[04:42:37] <Jymmm> It just made sense, dind't know if it was doable though. or if I had misunderstood something.
[04:42:49] <jmkasunich> a conventional relay circuit won't do that - it takes non-trivial mA of current to keep the relay pulled in
[04:45:07] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Yeah, it's things like that why I asked. I know a relay works, but it the cable every shorted, it would fail .
[04:45:18] <jmkasunich> not if you route it right
[04:45:30] <Jymmm> ?\
[04:45:49] <jmkasunich> power to first button, to next button, to next button, to last button, to relay, in a loop
[04:46:02] <jmkasunich> don't put the outgoing power in the same cable as the return wire
[04:46:07] <Jymmm> You're talking about a NC circuit, right?
[04:46:09] <jmkasunich> so they can't get shorted together
[04:46:21] <jmkasunich> and if anything gets shorted to ground, that will kill the relay too
[04:46:43] <jmkasunich> yes, NC driving a relay that energises to allow power to the machine
[04:47:20] <Jymmm> and you have never had a switch wfail with loose contacts and short out?
[04:47:30] <jmkasunich> not a decent switch
[04:48:00] <jmkasunich> you get your red mushroom estop switches from harbor freight or something?
[04:48:24] <Jymmm> so you have. Well that's why I was thinking of running the CP signal thru th eestop buttons, it wouldn't matter if it was a $100 or $2 switch.
[04:48:28] <jmkasunich> besides, even with crap switches, the vast majority of failures are fail open
[04:48:43] <EE_Chri1> Hmmm. Jogging works fine. Then after I home, I get a following error traversing to the home position (because nothing is tuned and my speed is set too high), After that when I re-start, the position doesn't count and a discrete jog doesn't stop.
[04:48:50] <jmkasunich> if the switch fails shorted, it won't matter what signal you are running thru it
[04:49:18] <EE_Chri1> Is it still stuck in a homing mode because of the FE?
[04:49:18] <Jymmm> if it fails shorted, the CP ciruict would trip the ESTOP
[04:49:30] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: shorted to what?
[04:49:44] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: anything.
[04:50:00] <jmkasunich> if the two terminals of the switch are shorted to EACH OTHER, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference what signal you are running thru it
[04:50:10] <Jymmm> shorted or opened, the CP cir would trip estop
[04:50:36] <Jymmm> right
[04:50:57] <jmkasunich> EE_Chri1: It shouldn't be still in homing mode
[04:51:37] <jmkasunich> what exactly happens - it finds the index, position display jumps to the proper value, then it begins the rapid to the home position... then you get an ferror, right?
[04:51:46] <EE_Chri1> I changed some speed settings (not knowing what I was doing) and I may have broken something. I set them all to smaller values though.
[04:52:07] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: I thought I was on to something there.
[04:52:09] <jmkasunich> and after you reset the ferror, you try to jog and what? it moves off at jog speed even after you let go of the button? or it runs away at high speed? or?
[04:52:22] <EE_Chri1> Not sure about 'proper value' but it does begin to rapid, then FE.
[04:52:22] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: a watchdog of sorts.
[04:53:16] <EE_Chri1> Moves at jog speed but pos count doesn't change and a discrete jog doesn't end.
[04:53:16] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: there is a small set of possible failure modes that your scheme could protect you against, that a regular circuit might not detect. BUT!! there are other ways in which your scheme could be riskier than the conventional approach
[04:53:33] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Ok, o how do you prevent a cable short pre-switch?
[04:53:44] <Jymmm> err detect
[04:53:46] <jmkasunich> and if you have to ask what those cases are, you don't know enough to design the safety circuit
[04:54:33] <jmkasunich> EE_Chri1: something is truly confusing - a servo system can't move in a controlled fashion without feedback
[04:54:50] <jmkasunich> and if there is feedback, your numbers ought to be changing
[04:54:55] <EE_Chri1> Well, the pos display isn't updating.
[04:55:01] <jmkasunich> what GUI
[04:55:07] <EE_Chri1> axis
[04:55:40] <jmkasunich> start a halmeter, and look at the actual HAL position feedback signal, and/or the position command signal
[04:56:55] <jmkasunich> when you say "discrete jog doesn't end", do you mean incremental jog? ("jog 0.01 inches each time I press the button")
[04:57:22] <EE_Chri1> Yes, incremental was the word I couldn't retrieve. :)
[04:57:26] <jmkasunich> or do you mean regular jog? "move when I press the button and stop when I let go"
[04:57:37] <jmkasunich> so do regular jogs work?
[04:59:13] <jmkasunich> jymmm: any safety circuit relies on having some "source", that goes thru all the buttons and gets to some "load"
[04:59:26] <jmkasunich> if the source ever stops getting to the load, then the load turns off
[04:59:58] <jmkasunich> it doesn't matter if the source is 120VAC, 24VDC, or as 12KHz charge pump signal - what matters is the source, the load, and the path between
[04:59:59] <EE_Chri1> Whoa! I set for slow continuous, and it just took off (rapidly) and gave an FE. Maybe I touched a speed ini/hal setting in a bad way.
[05:00:09] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Right, but have you ever had a tool (or whatever) that had the power cord twisted and short out?
[05:00:18] <jmkasunich> no
[05:00:38] <jmkasunich> so you are talking about shorting two conductors in a single cable
[05:01:03] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: You have never had a cbale pari rub againest a sharp edge and short out ?
[05:01:26] <jmkasunich> doesn't matter at all what signal is on those conductors - if you run the source lead going to a button and the return lead coming from a button in the same bundle, and they short to each other, that button doesn't work anymore
[05:01:31] <jmkasunich> because its bypassed
[05:01:45] <jmkasunich> if you short one of the wires to ground, that is different
[05:01:51] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Right, I understand that now.
[05:01:52] <EE_Chri1> How about a smart TDR module looking at a NC estop chain? ;)
[05:02:12] <jmkasunich> and the result depends on the signal - if the signal is +24V, and the negative side is grounded, you just shorted out your 24V supply, and the relay will drop out
[05:02:41] <jmkasunich> if that signal is chargepump, and you short it to ground, the charge pump will drop out - same difference either way
[05:02:45] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: I have seen some real shitty wiring jobs that I've had to cleanup. I'd just like to add that lil extra if reasonable, to "just in case"
[05:03:44] <jmkasunich> EE_Chri1: I would never even try homing or jogging until I had the motors tuned and all velocity and accel numbers set correctly
[05:04:02] <jmkasunich> correctly means you personally calculated the answers and know that they are appropriate for your design
[05:05:14] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: one of the risks with the charge pump approach.... if you are using a relay, it needs a fair amount of current to pull in - you know that current can't flow thru the air
[05:06:02] <jmkasunich> but a charge pump circuit has fairly high input impedance - stray capacitance could possibly couple the "source" signal (a high frequency square wave - those things just love stray capacitance) into the "load" circuit, without going thru the switch
[05:06:04] <jmkasunich> that would be bad
[05:06:09] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: What I was thinking is pc to control box to multiple mushrooms to the chargepump circuit.
[05:06:33] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: why not run that exact same path with 24Vdc?
[05:07:20] <jmkasunich> now if you KNOW that the charge pump circuit has a relatively low input impedance and isn't vulnerable to stray coupling, it would be fine
[05:07:23] <jmkasunich> but you don't know that
[05:07:26] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: I could, I just thought that if the cable ever rubbed againest a sharp edge, it would be "detected"
[05:07:29] <jmkasunich> and I sure as hell don't know that
[05:07:52] <jmkasunich> like I've said before - there are DIFFERNET failure modes
[05:07:59] <jmkasunich> some can be detected by both circuits
[05:08:03] <jmkasunich> some can only be detected by one
[05:08:15] <jmkasunich> you need to understand all of them
[05:08:30] <jmkasunich> "rubbing against a sharp edge" doesnt' cause the problem
[05:08:34] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Ok, so I would need a smarts at each mushroom to detect open/short/ failure. etc.
[05:08:35] <jmkasunich> something getting shorted does
[05:09:12] <Jymmm> I've bene thinkinf og the cp signal as a "heartbeat" of sorts.
[05:09:41] <jmkasunich> I can't seem to get thru to you that there is nothing magic about a cp signal
[05:10:02] <toastydeath> hahahah.
[05:10:05] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: I already said I understood
[05:10:21] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: (2007-05-30 22:01:47) Jymmm: jmkasunich: Right, I understand that now.
[05:10:23] <jmkasunich> the only thing it tells you that a steady 24V won't tell you, is that the thing GENERATING it hasn't gone out to lunch, it doesn't tell you squat about the switches is passes thru
[05:11:01] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Yes and I said (2007-05-30 22:08:30) Jymmm: jmkasunich: Ok, so I would need some smarts at each mushroom to detect open/short/ failure. etc.
[05:12:13] <jmkasunich> any open in the loop is going to drop out the relay, you don't need any "smarts" for that
[05:12:48] <Jymmm> and if the cbale got shorted out befor ethe mushroom, it will never work as intended either.
[05:12:52] <jmkasunich> a switch that fails shorted (input to output short) is impossible to detect except by pushing it and seeing if the machine stops
[05:13:25] <EE_Chri1> I've got to finish some wiring for the other axes and then begin tuning (steep learning curve expected). For the moment I'm going to assume the servo amps are reasonably tuned since I didn't mess with them other than dialing in the null settings. Any advice beyond reading the references linked in the EMC docs/wiki?
[05:13:27] <jmkasunich> if the cable gets a short between the outgoing "source" and the returning signal, then it won't work
[05:13:37] <jmkasunich> if the cable gets shorted to something else, it will work
[05:14:10] <Jymmm> If you only knew how many time I see big corps have all this data disaster recovery setup for backups, offsite storae to neer check them to see if they can restore and then loose millions. for something so stupid.
[05:14:17] <jmkasunich> you prevent shorts between the outgoing source and the returning signal by not running them in the same cable
[05:15:04] <Jymmm> can still happen and you wouldn't know .\
[05:15:21] <jmkasunich> test the estop before each day's run
[05:15:29] <jmkasunich> this is pointless
[05:15:32] <Jymmm> human nature
[05:15:47] <jmkasunich> I'll never let you design my estop circuits, and you can do whatever you think is right for yours
[05:15:57] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: No it's not. you are trying to say KISS, and I'm saying thhat safety is not that simple as you think it is.
[05:16:31] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: I design 1000HP motor drives for a living. I know a little about safety and estops for machines that can kill people
[05:16:48] <Jymmm> if cab;e A shorts againest metal frame, then cable B shorts againest he safe metal frame a week later there goes your ESTOP
[05:16:55] <jmkasunich> not if the frame is grounded
[05:17:07] <Jymmm> and grounds have come loose before.
[05:17:20] <jmkasunich> if cable A shorts against a grounded frame, it shorts out the poiwer supply and the machine stops
[05:17:29] <jmkasunich> if you lose your frame ground, you got worse issues
[05:17:41] <jmkasunich> you are describing a three point failure
[05:17:47] <jmkasunich> bad ground, and two independent shorts to the frame
[05:17:59] <Jymmm> A loose ground would be a SPOF, where is the other two?
[05:18:12] <Jymmm> in what you were describing that is.
[05:18:12] <jmkasunich> cable A to frame, cable B to frame
[05:18:30] <toastydeath> also known as "everything gone wrong that could go wrong"
[05:18:43] <Jymmm> aren't signals from PC opto isolated typically?
[05:18:54] <jmkasunich> 24VDC estop circuits are not isolated
[05:19:04] <jmkasunich> (not isolated from ground)
[05:19:20] <jmkasunich> that way a short to ground will kill the relay
[05:19:50] <jmkasunich> if you isolate it, then you can have the 2 point failure that you described, A and B both to frame, path completed thru frame, buttons don't work
[05:20:16] <jmkasunich> but if you ground the negative side of the 24V, and use the positive for all the wiring, then any short to frame will kill the estop
[05:20:48] <Jymmm> ok, that makes snes.
[05:20:54] <Jymmm> sense even
[05:21:33] <Jymmm> It's difficult for me to think of DC ground and AC ground and chassis grounds being all "connected"
[05:21:56] <jmkasunich> thats cause you have a machine thats at least partly wood
[05:22:13] <Jymmm> not the machine, just the enclosure
[05:23:03] <jmkasunich> all industrial stuff is made of metal, the control electronics and electricals are in metal boxes, there are metal conduits connecting everything, and its grounded to the building power distribution system thru at least 2 redundant paths - the green ground wire, and the conduit or mounting hardware
[05:23:16] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: I've always has issues understanding the difference between chassis earth signal floating gorunds.
[05:23:37] <Jymmm> not just electrical but electronics as well.
[05:23:51] <Jymmm> electrical just uses them more
[05:23:57] <jmkasunich> I hate the word ground sometimes, because it can be vague
[05:24:12] <jmkasunich> especially for signal stuff, one ground isn't always electrically the same as another
[05:24:35] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Take a switching PS as examle.... I can't connect two of them toghether becasue of the grounds. I get it, but I don't if you know what I mean.
[05:24:37] <jmkasunich> thats another reason why safety circuits don't use tiny high frequency signals, they use nice strong 24V stuff
[05:25:03] <jmkasunich> I don't know what you mean with the power supplies
[05:25:26] <Jymmm> connect two 12V switching Ps to get 24V as example.
[05:25:37] <Jymmm> or to double the amperage
[05:25:38] <jmkasunich> you mean two PC supplies
[05:26:04] <Jymmm> PC or popen-framw switching PS
[05:26:09] <Jymmm> open
[05:26:10] <EE_Chri1> Just think of everything in terms of return currents, and then it either all makes sense or your head explodes thinking about it. ;)
[05:26:13] <jmkasunich> switching power supply is a very general term - there are plenty of switchers out there where you CAN connect outputs in series
[05:26:19] <jmkasunich> because the outputs are floating
[05:26:34] <jmkasunich> but PC power supplies do not have floating outputs, the common is tied to chassis
[05:27:04] <Jymmm> I was just using that as example of "grounds"
[05:27:37] <jmkasunich> I need to go to sleed
[05:27:40] <jmkasunich> sleep
[05:27:44] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Fg'night
[05:27:47] <Jymmm> -f
[05:28:02] <EE_Chri1> Me too (snore). Any comments on tuning before I go?
[05:28:13] <jmkasunich> its hard to describe
[05:28:40] <EE_Chri1> Start with links in wiki?
[05:28:45] <jmkasunich> yeah
[05:29:23] <EE_Chri1> OK. Thanks much for all the help.
[05:29:24] <ds2> hmmm if isolation is the only reason why you can't series supplies....
[05:29:42] <ds2> why not put isolation transformers on the input side of the supplies?
[05:29:54] <jmkasunich> its not the input that is the problem
[05:30:02] <jmkasunich> the negative side of each supply is tied to its case
[05:30:11] <ds2> so mount each one in a plastic case
[05:30:20] <jmkasunich> that would work
[05:30:39] <ds2> hmmm
[05:30:48] <jmkasunich> but there are other penalties - not grounding the cases leads to more RF noise being emitted, etc
[05:30:59] <jmkasunich> nefs
[05:31:10] <ds2> I see
[05:31:18] <ds2> always trade offs
[05:31:21] <EE_Chri1> Good night, all.
[05:31:40] <jmkasunich> good night
[05:32:23] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/mesa_5i2x/firmware/Makefile: update FPGA build process to use new tools
[05:33:53] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/mesa_5i2x/firmware/ (stepgen.mspec toplevel.vhd): template and module spec files for FPGA build process
[05:34:21] <jmkasunich> bedtime
[05:38:18] <Jymmm> ds2: People want to use PC Ps's becasue xfmr's can be expensive, and PC PS's are oh so abundant.
[05:39:17] <Jymmm> ds2: so you use insulated standoffs inside a metal case to keep the EMI/RFI minimal.
[05:41:36] <chr0n1c> you can take the case apart and remove the case ground wire/traces
[05:41:42] <chr0n1c> and do that...
[05:41:48] <chr0n1c> MAYBE
[05:41:55] <chr0n1c> i know you can do paralell that way
[05:42:11] <toastydeath> or CAN you.
[05:42:27] <chr0n1c> uhh...
[05:42:37] <chr0n1c> some people can...
[05:42:48] <chr0n1c> do you have the tools and balls to try it?
[05:43:15] <Jymmm> I have two extinguishers in the garage, so yes.
[05:43:30] <Jymmm> All rated ABC =)
[05:43:35] <chr0n1c> good good
[05:43:40] <Jymmm> C as in ELECTRICAL fire =)
[05:43:40] <chr0n1c> and good
[05:44:22] <Jymmm> and the huge ass blower to exhaust the stinking fumes for the next 4 days afterwards too =)
[05:45:10] <chr0n1c> * chr0n1c bites the head off of a live bat... (i thought it was a rubber bat)
[05:47:36] <ds2> Jymmm: except transformers on the input are relatively low current
[05:47:57] <ds2> but, yes PC powersupplies can be had for free :/
[05:48:08] <toastydeath> provided you steal computers
[05:48:18] <ds2> steal!!??!
[05:48:35] <ds2> I just need to say I am looking for old computers and they just appear
[05:49:01] <toastydeath> i'm sure you're violating some DMCA nonsense by doing that
[05:49:07] <ds2> =)
[05:49:06] <toastydeath> prepare to be sued.
[05:49:43] <Jymmm> Ha, like you have to steal an old computer.... just place a free ad for recycling old computers, and people will give them to you.
[05:50:07] <chr0n1c> <- has a wall covered with old towers ripe for plucking parts from in the basement
[05:50:28] <ds2> Jymmm: need more? =)
[05:50:45] <toastydeath> i emailed some machinery sales place to get a price
[05:50:45] <Jymmm> Hey, that's an idea... I need to find an old AT case
[05:50:55] <Jymmm> ds2: PS or cases?
[05:51:06] <ds2> Jymmm: both
[05:51:14] <ds2> you want an old AT case?
[05:51:29] <ds2> how many do you want?
[05:51:33] <toastydeath> on a 20"x120" american pacemaker
[05:51:38] <Jymmm> ds2: I might be able to use a mid tower case, depending on it's config/layout
[05:52:02] <toastydeath> which was loaded - coolant, lights, a ton of chucks, toolposts, a horde of toolholders, taper attachment, 15-2000 rpm
[05:52:02] <Jymmm> AT cases I just remembered have the whole shell attached.
[05:52:03] <ds2> Jymmm: I have an old AT (desktop style) case + PS I would like to dispose of
[05:52:06] <toastydeath> plus it had a copy tracer
[05:52:21] <toastydeath> but the dude wanted $199,000.00 for it
[05:52:23] <Jymmm> ds2: 6" tall?
[05:52:35] <toastydeath> a manual lathe
[05:52:47] <ds2> Jymmm: around there... it has 3 5.25" bays
[05:52:49] <toastydeath> one hundred nintey-nine thousand dollars
[05:52:56] <chr0n1c> i have a 6" tall pc case.. it was an external hotswap HD case
[05:53:01] <ds2> the shell slides out
[05:53:18] <Jymmm> ds2: Yeah, that was the icky part of those iirc
[05:53:27] <chr0n1c> Jymmm: i'd let it go cheap ;)...
[05:53:35] <chr0n1c> 2 bay
[05:53:40] <Jymmm> chr0n1c: free and free shipping
[05:53:41] <ds2> yes, but it is solid metal unlike the frys $15 specials
[05:53:45] <chr0n1c> ples a bottm hidden bay for the ps that was in it
[05:53:56] <ds2> Jymmm: do you really need/want a mid tower?
[05:54:04] <chr0n1c> Jymmm: ehh not that cheap
[05:54:15] <Jymmm> ds2: screw frys, I'm talking asking for them from weird stuff or the place next door to them
[05:54:42] <chr0n1c> maybye like 5 bux+ shipping
[05:54:48] <Jymmm> ds2: I'm not sure yet, I have a sweet case I'm using for the new control box, but I'm not sure if eerything will fit in it yet.
[05:55:05] <Jymmm> chr0n1c: Deal, you pay me $5 to take it off your hands.
[05:55:43] <chr0n1c> it needs a plate made for where the two HD bays were
[05:55:43] <ds2> Jymmm: let me know... got stuff to get rid off
[05:55:43] <Jymmm> ds2: where you near?
[05:55:43] <chr0n1c> Jymmm: i'll take that as a "no thanks"
[05:55:43] <Jymmm> crossstreets
[05:55:44] <ds2> 101/85
[05:55:53] <Jymmm> chr0n1c: =)
[05:56:55] <Jymmm> chr0n1c: I'll never pay for PC cases
[05:56:55] <Jymmm> ds2: behind old IBM?
[05:56:55] <ds2> Jymmm: that general area
[05:56:56] <Jymmm> ds2: Ok
[05:58:47] <Jymmm> Gawd, I always forget the simple shit... like how many I/O's are on paraport. *sigh* My mind is a terrible thign to waste.
[05:58:57] <ds2> much rather give stuff away to people who will use it then deal with those so call "recyclers" who turn around and re-sell stuff
[05:59:20] <Jymmm> ds2: I understnad that one. Got any relays or SSr hidden over there too?
[05:59:45] <ds2> Jymmm: relays, yes. no SSR, AFAIK... the relays I think are in octal base form
[05:59:58] <Jymmm> ds2: got the bases too????
[06:00:23] <ds2> don't think so
[06:00:28] <Jymmm> rats!
[06:00:30] <ds2> they are standard tube bases so....
[06:00:42] <ds2> excess sol'n might have them in their piles
[06:00:50] <Jymmm> ds2: but have you ever tried mounting a tube base =)
[06:01:17] <ds2> not yet.. I am looking for suitable tubes (got some?) to try to build a tube receiver just for the experience
[06:01:42] <Jymmm> ds2: I have no tubes of any kind
[06:02:04] <Jymmm> CRT being the closest
[06:02:28] <Jymmm> shitloads of PC HW
[06:02:32] <ds2> one day I'll find those
[06:02:43] <ds2> modern PC HW?
[06:02:49] <Jymmm> like?
[06:03:08] <ds2> ATX or newer era
[06:03:19] <Jymmm> lol, yes =)
[06:03:32] <ds2> so you do have modern stuff... I have too much AT stuff
[06:03:52] <Jymmm> ds2: are you needing anything specific?
[06:04:13] <ds2> a PS with P4 tail connector
[06:04:26] <ds2> normally, I'd goto surplus computers but since they closed their store... :(
[06:04:29] <chr0n1c> ds2: compusa's dumpster
[06:04:45] <Jymmm> you mean the 4c molex connector from the PS ?
[06:05:27] <Jymmm> you mean the square 4c molex connector from the PS ?
[06:05:54] <ds2> yes
[06:06:17] <ds2> chr0n1c: all compusas within 40miles are closed
[06:06:21] <Jymmm> I might have one grab a pic of google and let me see what you are thinking of
[06:06:54] <chr0n1c> ds2: dman
[06:06:57] <chr0n1c> damn even
[06:09:23] <ds2> http://support.intel.com/support/processors/pentium4/sb/cs-007994.htm
[06:09:29] <ds2> the +12V Power connector
[06:13:33] <chr0n1c> night folks
[06:13:33] <Jymmm> ds2: Yeah I think I have one of those, not sure if it's in use or not.
[06:13:39] <Jymmm> night chr0n1c
[06:14:25] <Jymmm> ds2: what wattage?
[06:14:46] <ds2> 250-300 should be fine
[06:32:39] <Jymmm> iirc P4's need 350+
[06:47:31] <ds2> *shrug* I just have a board and need a PS for it
[06:50:30] <Jymmm> you might want to check the requirements for the mobo
[06:51:49] <ds2> easier to start with what I can find
[06:52:14] <ds2> oh if any machine builders are still awake, what do you guys use to couple to a lead screw?
[06:52:21] <Jymmm> we had a mobo and a 300W PS, would power off
[06:52:37] <ds2> just the mobo?
[06:52:49] <Jymmm> yep, needed to be at least 350W
[06:52:59] <ds2> hmmm
[06:53:03] <Jymmm> no the whole thing
[06:54:12] <ds2> if that is the case, I shouldn't come across many/any sub 350W P4 connector power supplies
[06:54:54] <Jymmm> it depends on the mobo specs mostly, just fyi =)
[06:56:25] <ds2> hmmm
[10:26:14] <hcseb> Hi Folks, anyone know of a bug in pyvcp whereby the LED indicator fails to honour the on_color and off_color tags?
[10:57:23] <alex_joni> hcseb: not yet
[10:58:42] <hcseb> alex_joni: Not yet meaning that the feature isn't implemented yet?
[10:58:56] <alex_joni> not yet, meaning I didn't know of the bug
[10:59:23] <hcseb> Oh, ok. Well, in this 2.1.5 version, that appears to be the case.
[10:59:42] <hcseb> I'll have a quick look at the code..
[11:00:13] <alex_joni> I'm not sure the tags exist though..
[11:01:52] <alex_joni> hmm.. the code says it should work
[11:04:09] <hcseb> Yes, I agree - I was lokoing in pyvcp_widgets.py
[11:04:19] <hcseb> And that code appears to be there.
[11:05:09] <hcseb> Assuming that TRUE in the hal evaluates to 1 in the python code.
[11:05:20] <alex_joni> yes
[11:05:52] <hcseb> Which it must, because, apart from the colour, the leds operate as expected for me
[11:06:40] <alex_joni> what colour did you try?
[11:07:01] <hcseb> The Tk interface doesn't expect an rgb value for the colourd oes it? I tried"green", "red" and b"blue"
[11:07:23] <alex_joni> no, I think literals are expected
[11:07:27] <alex_joni> red / green etc
[11:11:42] <hcseb> Ah. I can place either <on_color>"blue"</on_color> or <on_color>blue</on_color> and the interface will run, but neither gives the expected colours.
[11:14:16] <hcseb> On another subject, if you were to want to run a cnc drililng machine which has X, Y motion and then will drill a hole or make a cut across the whole piece, how would you go about it? I am assuming I need to modify the tk based user interface and emcmot..
[11:15:22] <hcseb> and I somehow need to link the relevant G commands to "start drilling" and "start torch" and "start cutting" etc. (it's a flame cutter for steel plate)
[11:15:51] <hcseb> (off for lunch now)
[11:25:00] <alex_joni> you don't need to modify the interface
[11:25:15] <alex_joni> you only need to set up your configuration for only 2 axes (X,Y)
[11:25:26] <alex_joni> and then you'd probably use some custom M-codes for the drilling
[11:42:26] <hcseb> I already edited the configuration to remove the Z axis. So, just the custom M codes for the drilling, cutting, etc.
[11:42:30] <hcseb> Great
[11:42:50] <hcseb> What machines do you run with emc alex?
[11:59:56] <alex_joni> hcseb: I mostly do sw development for fun
[12:00:07] <alex_joni> I have a small mill (with steppers)
[12:01:21] <hcseb> I'm having an interesting time with some largish machines in a structural steel fabricator. I'm doing this as contract work for the owner, who is a Linux enthusiast
[12:01:32] <alex_joni> great ;)
[12:01:44] <alex_joni> linux enthusiasts are always welcome
[12:02:05] <alex_joni> for work I usually work with welding robots
[12:02:08] <hcseb> I see.
[12:02:10] <alex_joni> not emc controlled though
[12:02:16] <hcseb> *nod*
[12:02:16] <alex_joni> 6-12 axes
[12:02:22] <hcseb> I see.
[12:02:39] <hcseb> We have a 9 axis driller/saw cutter which is the next machine on the list.
[12:03:11] <hcseb> I understand I will have to hack emc a bit to get all the axes in... But they are simple axes, it's not complex motion like a robot
[12:04:57] <alex_joni> then you can probably get it easily done
[12:05:09] <alex_joni> the motion controller as it is now supports up to 8 joints
[12:05:33] <alex_joni> but that's just an arbitrary limit.. changing it should only mean changing a constant and recompiling
[12:05:41] <alex_joni> (and probably fix a couple of typos/thinkos) :D
[12:15:52] <hcseb> Yes, I looked in the code and it seems like there are some defines to change, then think about.
[12:16:39] <hcseb> The pyvnc system is pretty good. Shame the toolkit is ugly :(
[12:17:03] <hcseb> What was the rationale behind moving from gtk to tk?
[12:21:04] <jepler> hcseb: development of the old vcp (written in C and gtk) had stalled .. I talked the author of the new vcp into using python+tk so that it could integrate within the AXIS gui window
[12:22:54] <hcseb> I thought it might have been for AXIS integration
[13:25:02] <JymmmEMC> Damn damn damn... Just found 25' XLR to 1/4" phone cables for $4
[13:25:40] <JymmmEMC> It's only 3 conductor =(
[13:28:27] <JymmmEMC> ds2: http://www.weirdstuff.com/cgi-bin/item/12067
[13:33:39] <JymmmEMC> ds2: I plan on hitting weird stuff today
[13:39:45] <alex_joni> bbl
[13:51:44] <The_Ball_> is it a good idea to have the "enable line" break the motor circuit to the servo motors?
[13:52:00] <SWPadnos> that depends on the machine
[13:52:13] <SWPadnos> but it's probably as good as anything for a small servo machine
[13:52:41] <The_Ball_> it's not a machine that will move if no power is applied
[13:52:57] <SWPadnos> what if it's already moving? ...
[13:53:16] <The_Ball_> then it'll come to a quick halt
[13:53:16] <SWPadnos> or are you talking about enable, not e-stop?
[13:53:45] <The_Ball_> yes, enable. that bit gets enabled with the "power" symbol in the gui right?
[13:54:07] <The_Ball_> I'd like to stop the servo from singing when not in use, but have the powersupply still active
[13:54:10] <SWPadnos> I think so (I'm not sure exactly which bits go on when)
[13:54:55] <SWPadnos> ah. unless you have brakes on each axis, you probably want the servo amps enabled - they need to correct if the machine gets bumped
[13:55:33] <cradek> "machine on" turns on the various axis.N.amp-enable-out
[13:56:00] <The_Ball_> the gecko will keep track of up to 40 encoder steps before it goes into error mode though
[13:56:02] <cradek> I like to use that to enable pid, choppers, etc
[13:56:17] <cradek> then you can turn "machine off" and move the machine by hand
[13:56:22] <SWPadnos> geckos are actually +/- 128 counts
[13:56:28] <The_Ball_> oh is it
[13:56:30] <SWPadnos> but if you disable it, it won't do anything
[13:56:52] <The_Ball_> i was thinking of putting a relay on the +- circuit for the motor...
[13:56:52] <cradek> oh I don't know anything about the 'gecko way'
[13:57:00] <SWPadnos> the enable line is also the error line, so if you drive it low (I think) externally, there will never be a fault
[13:57:11] <SWPadnos> no!
[13:57:22] <SWPadnos> don't ever disconnect the motor leads from an active drive
[13:57:48] <SWPadnos> you're just about guaranteed to fry the drive if you do so
[13:58:03] <The_Ball_> oh, won't do that then ;0
[13:58:07] <JymmmEMC> The_Ball likes letting the magic smoke out
[13:58:19] <SWPadnos> heh - good plan ;)
[13:58:49] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I was thinking of you... http://www.weirdstuff.com/cgi-bin/item/20008
[13:58:50] <SWPadnos> read up in the geckodrive archives about that. I know Mariss says it's a Bad Thing, but I don't know the specifics of why
[13:58:54] <SWPadnos> yes, I know
[13:58:57] <SWPadnos> err - thanks
[13:59:25] <SWPadnos> I wonder if I can still win a Sony home entertainment system
[13:59:37] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Yeah, he told me that on the phone... The sure way to blow a drive is for the motors to become disconnected from it while in operation.
[14:00:53] <SWPadnos> I know that's true of the stepper drives (except the vampire), but I'm not absolutely sure about the servo drives
[14:01:04] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: He said even vampire
[14:01:21] <JymmmEMC> but things might have changed since then too
[14:01:22] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I thought the broken motor wire was one ofthe things he had solved
[14:01:47] <JymmmEMC> vampire was "in the works" at the time
[14:01:52] <SWPadnos> you'd think that if you can dunk it in water while operating, you'd be able to disconnect a motor lead
[14:01:55] <SWPadnos> right
[14:02:17] <The_Ball_> SWPadnos, "the enable line is also the error line, so if you drive it low (I think) externally, there will never be a fault" im not sure of the behaviour on this "err/res" input. When not connected the gecko will not clear a error condition, when connected to +5V the error will clear after 3 seconds. don't know what happens if i drive it low, might disable the drive? I will go downstairs and try
[14:02:45] <SWPadnos> well, I'd look at the manual before believing me :)
[14:02:59] <SWPadnos> I have a set of geckos, but I don't work with them every day
[14:04:07] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC ponders WTF am I looking at T1/T3 equipment for
[14:07:08] <JymmmEMC> PP-JTAG Controller with Printer Port Interface
[14:07:41] <The_Ball_> SWPadnos, shorting to ground will enable error mode, shorting to +5v will clear it
[14:07:50] <SWPadnos> ah - ok
[14:08:05] <SWPadnos> the drive outputs a low, which will stop all the other drives if you just parallel the err/res pins
[14:08:10] <The_Ball_> and if you leave it floating you can read the error state, nice design
[14:08:38] <SWPadnos> well, it actually causes some problems when you design an estop circuit, but it does work
[14:08:59] <JymmmEMC> ???
[14:09:44] <SWPadnos> it's a dual-purpose pin, and you can't tell what it's being used for at any given time
[14:10:01] <JymmmEMC> ah
[14:10:39] <SWPadnos> you need to separate the err/res lines from multiple drives, if you want to be able to tell which axis faulted, so the fact that they can be paralleled isn't as useful as it could be
[14:11:19] <SWPadnos> and you need to connect an input and an output pin to it (can be the same pin, depending), so you can both detect faults and reset the drives
[14:11:55] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: Damnit... http://www.halted.com/ccp21319-toroidal-transformer--250va-21058.htm
[14:12:10] <SWPadnos> 250VA - wimpy ;)
[14:12:32] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: 120/2=60V*1.414=84V =(
[14:12:44] <SWPadnos> yes
[14:12:54] <SWPadnos> if you're thinking of running geckos, that's probably fine
[14:13:06] <skunkworks> cradek: what kind of torcher did you put your lathe thru?
[14:13:08] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: my motors need 50VDC
[14:13:26] <SWPadnos> ah, so they'd get a bit warm with that xfmr
[14:14:01] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: I see multiple leads... I wonder if it has +/-10V
[14:14:07] <cradek> skunkworks: I cut an inch part on my metric lathe using multiple tools with tool offsets
[14:14:27] <cradek> it works great now
[14:14:37] <cradek> (the tool table stuff was pretty busted before)
[14:15:01] <cradek> however, I found that I have a fairly weak power supply that's causing problems
[14:15:27] <Unit41> switched ?
[14:15:48] <cradek> no, it's a toroid transformer that's unexpectedly wimpy
[14:16:40] <Unit41> cap it ?
[14:16:58] <skunkworks> cradek: very nice.
[14:17:05] <skunkworks> Can't wait to see it in action.
[14:17:19] <Unit41> would a capicator help ?
[14:17:56] <cradek> Unit41: nope, I think more caps wouldn't really help much
[14:19:11] <Unit41> when I deal with electronics stuff I just try to throw capacitors in random spots
[14:19:29] <Unit41> somtimes it works... most of the time not
[14:20:17] <JymmmEMC> 48VDC@5.5A=264W
[14:20:54] <JymmmEMC> 250VA is what about 210W ?
[14:21:12] <Unit41> do kernel modules get realtime speeds ?
[14:21:58] <Unit41> found this great article http://linuxgazette.net/122/sreejith.html
[14:26:04] <jepler> Unit41: in emc2, only special kernel modules that are "hal realtime modules" get realtime performance.
[14:27:09] <jepler> emc2 is a bit more complex than the source code shown on that page :-P
[14:28:57] <Unit41> I knows it :P
[14:28:58] <Unit41> huhu
[14:32:47] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, you need to take the VA rating and divide by either 1.414 (for direct DC watts), or divide by 1.8 (the recommended derating for transformers used in DC bulk supplies)
[14:33:06] <The_Ball_> jepler, i would like to ask you opinion on something, since you are the pluto expert. I have two servos arriving any day now: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=180119980489&rd=1&rd=1 which can accept step/dir or +-10V, I also have a pluto coming, would you use step/dir with the ac drives internal pid control or would you use pluto to control them? Im not ever sure if pl
[14:33:06] <The_Ball_> uto can be used because i believe the motors have resolvers, not encoders on them
[14:33:26] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: 180W
[14:33:46] <jepler> The_Ball_: pluto doesn't do either step+dir or resolvers
[14:34:25] <SWPadnos> take the 264W you want, and multiply by 1.8 ...
[14:34:30] <The_Ball_> i know, i would use a parallel port for step/dir, and im not sure if the listing is correct regarding resolver or encoder
[14:35:10] <SWPadnos> that gives ~475VA, so 450 would probably be OK (since you won't be using full power most of the time), and 500 would be slight overkill
[14:35:33] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: That torroid is 250VA though
[14:38:06] <skunkworks> The_Ball_: the pluto also uses PWM output. So you would have to build up a bit of a circuit to turn the pwm into a +/-10 signal.
[14:38:08] <Unit41> so emc runs from command line then ?
[14:38:17] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, yes, which means it's undersized for your application ...
[14:38:32] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: damn PF! LOL
[14:39:27] <The_Ball_> skunkworks, oh, ok, nothing a voltage divider and a op-amp/voltage follower couldn't handle
[14:40:15] <skunkworks> Sounds good ;)
[15:14:25] <Unit41> http://www.callowayengines.com/cal3.jpg
[15:14:37] <Unit41> live long and prosper!
[15:14:43] <Unit41> heheh
[15:15:06] <skunkworks> purpetual motion Yo
[15:15:25] <Unit41> not technically
[15:15:26] <skunkworks> perpetual?
[15:15:34] <Unit41> its a gravity engine
[15:16:53] <Unit41> I emailed the dude and he said a video goes up in 2 weeks
[15:16:57] <SWPadnos> it looks to me like they have the rotation backwards
[15:17:33] <Unit41> there is a trick there though
[15:17:43] <Unit41> see how the ball goes through the slit
[15:17:51] <SWPadnos> if you look at the first position, the torques from 5+4 cancel, 8+1 cancel, and 3+6 cancel
[15:17:58] <SWPadnos> (roughly)
[15:18:01] <Unit41> you need to have an opening in the center of the devide
[15:18:14] <SWPadnos> that leaves 2+7 for net torque
[15:18:31] <Unit41> remember 7's gotta roll yet
[15:18:56] <SWPadnos> 7 is at a larger radius than 2, so it has more torque, but it's counterclockwise
[15:19:09] <Unit41> and you dont cancel them out like that
[15:19:15] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:19:22] <Unit41> use ones on the same devider
[15:19:31] <SWPadnos> I'm looking at it from a static->dynamic perspective
[15:19:42] <SWPadnos> ie, if you start it in position 1, what will happen
[15:21:54] <Unit41> you need to spin it up first
[15:22:05] <Unit41> it rotates at about 60 rpm
[15:22:10] <SWPadnos> ok, that's a different story then :)
[15:35:19] <skunkworks> a video goes up in 2 weeks... :)
[15:37:47] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWIN_b95GoI
[15:44:49] <cradek> reminds me of the huygens? gravity escapement
[15:46:01] <cradek> according to the text, the "free energy" part is not shown here (and compressed air is used instead), but it's in the plans
[15:46:16] <skunkworks> I saw that ;)
[15:46:46] <cradek> the gravity escapement seems a bit magical at first too, it's very clever
[15:50:11] <skunkworks> Bill doesn't get sucked into these projects?
[15:50:31] <cradek> you mean magic machines? um, no
[15:51:23] <skunkworks> thank god
[15:51:29] <Unit41> cradek how does big ben work ?
[15:51:36] <Unit41> http://us.geocities.com/mvhw/gravity.html
[15:51:46] <Unit41> this looks plane retarded
[15:52:04] <skunkworks> Unit41: are you saying that big ben is a perpetual motion machine?
[15:52:16] <Unit41> no
[15:52:28] <cradek> that animation doesn't work for me, but that is a gravity escapement
[15:54:03] <cradek> well, I got it to animate, but it's bogus, it doesn't show how it works
[15:55:12] <cradek> I think the animator may not have understood the escapement actually
[15:58:20] <Unit41> http://www.geocities.com/mvhw/bpinwhl.html
[16:02:45] <Unit41> building my own clock just went on my future todo list
[16:03:08] <Unit41> maybe a water drop clock
[16:03:39] <Unit41> that makes volts to power an led and uC
[16:04:08] <Unit41> lcd
[16:06:47] <Unit41> http://amasci.com/emotor/kelvin.html
[16:10:18] <Unit41> hahaha http://amasci.com/emotor/emotor.html
[16:14:42] <skunkworks> you know it is a big oil consperocy.. same with the 900mpg carberator.
[16:15:03] <JymmmEMC> that they bought the patent and hide it
[16:15:22] <skunkworks> you know it..
[16:15:46] <JymmmEMC> I heard it was 150MPG using an MG body and various parts
[16:17:24] <JymmmEMC> but I don't remember which university
[16:17:50] <Unit41> all I know is the education system sucks and were all forced into conformity
[16:18:17] <JymmmEMC> Unit41: GET BACK IN LINE BIOTCH!
[16:19:13] <skunkworks> If your going to waste time on free energy - your time would be well spent working on a low temp differental stirling engine.
[16:19:42] <Unit41> ebay wont ship my books till the 4th
[16:20:08] <Unit41> I bought a bunch of tesla books and some heat engine books
[16:20:19] <Unit41> 200 order
[16:21:00] <Unit41> amazone
[16:21:05] <Unit41> not ebay
[16:22:08] <Unit41> you can spin a parabolic dish from plaster
[16:22:11] <skunkworks> but your still only going to get (in a perfect world) 50% of the engergy you put in back out.
[16:23:01] <skunkworks> energy even
[16:23:30] <Unit41> depends
[16:23:44] <Unit41> solar conversion can be 90% efficient
[16:24:15] <skunkworks> of what to what?
[16:24:17] <Unit41> but thats only if you wana heat a swimming pool
[16:24:27] <skunkworks> exactly - heat to heat
[16:24:48] <Unit41> light to heat
[16:25:05] <skunkworks> ok - yes
[16:25:18] <Unit41> anodised aluminum works best
[16:25:22] <Unit41> or copper
[16:25:57] <skunkworks> I still have to take pictures of my unfinished monstrosity
[16:26:11] <Unit41> I seen a neat article on solar refridgeration too
[16:26:45] <skunkworks> yes - same principle as gas powered refridgerators in rv's
[16:26:53] <Unit41> you heat a tube with ammonia and ice remover for sidewalks
[16:27:08] <Unit41> and it releases the ammonia
[16:27:51] <Unit41> carnot efficiency's
[17:07:57] <Unit41> it then condenses in the fridge part and duri8ng the night it evaporates
[17:08:08] <Unit41> goes back into the salt
[18:33:45] <jepler> I think an 8-pin "attiny" would make a nice current limiter / chopper for L298 servos. Pull L298 "enable" low when the current limit is reached, and set it high again after a fixed off time
[18:34:17] <jepler> the only external parts look to be the sense resistor and the reference voltage divider, trimpot, or whatever
[18:34:25] <anonimasu> hm
[18:34:32] <ds2> isn't a comparator easier and just as small?
[18:35:27] <jepler> ds2: no, that's a bit tricky to do -- when doing "enable" chopping, you don't get current through the sense resistor, so it will look like the current quickly drops below the limit
[18:35:55] <SWPadnos> I suspect a comparator is harder to adjust, and also harder to make it resistant to temperature changes and the like
[18:35:55] <ds2> hmm
[18:36:20] <SWPadnos> harder to adjust the delay time, that is
[18:37:19] <ds2> hmm
[18:37:25] <jepler> the l297 chopper incorporates a comparator, flip-flop, and clock
[18:37:46] <jepler> the allegro part I looked at was similar, except that it uses fixed off time
[19:08:36] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_convert.cc: I actually tried/debugged this now
[21:35:10] <skunkworks> /join emc-devel
[21:35:14] <skunkworks> oops
[21:55:05] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/mesa_5i2x/firmware/configram.vhd: add VHDL for configuration data RAM
[22:01:50] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/gantrykins.c: rtapi.h should be included before any rtapi_xxx.h header
[22:14:39] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/rtapi/rtapi.h: fixes conflicts between kernel and userspace header files that caused problems on 64-bit systems
[22:26:13] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/rtapi/rtapi_string.h: our definition of strcmp causes problems on 2.6/x86_64 systems; hopefully the comment about 'very early kernels' means this test for kernel 2.4 or greater is OK
[22:26:55] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/rtapi/rtai_rtapi.c: using this old module_param syntax causes problems, and the use of the RTAPI macros should be preferred anyway
[22:27:31] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/rtapi/ (rtapi_math.h rtapi_math_i386.h): the defintion of huge_val should be portable to all systems with IEEE maths, so move it out of the CPU-specific header file
[22:28:23] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/module_helper/module_helper.c: this module is needed on some systems
[22:28:47] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/comp.g: this header is not needed by most comps, so don't include it
[22:34:00] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/Makefile: It is necessary to have the true kernel headers on my x86-64 machine, and it does not appear harmful on the 32-bit systems I tested (dapper/rtai, dapper/sim)
[22:35:06] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/Submakefile: if libemchal.so.0 is not an explicit target, it might not exist after the build completes
[22:38:40] <skunkworks> Hi :)
[22:38:45] <rob-h> hi
[22:40:49] <rob-h> has any one using the DigiSpeed GX from homanndesigns for controlling PWM output to analog spindle speed?
[22:42:08] <cradek> I've generated PWM output directly from EMC2 in various ways to control spindle speed
[22:42:37] <cradek> (I don't know about that particular product though)
[22:42:45] <rob-h> im trying to setup EMC with PWM output to feed into the digispeed to convert it into a 0-10v analog for the inverter
[22:43:12] <rob-h> you can check out digispeed here http://homanndesigns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=21&zenid=7aba984713efa5993762f6e9793b0a61
[22:43:58] <jepler> rob-h: can you tell us what the specific problem is (even if it's "it doesn't do anything") and show us the HAL configuration you're using?
[22:43:58] <cradek> oh ok, it's simply an isolator board
[22:44:27] <skunkworks> hmmm - cool little board. Should work nice with pwmgen
[22:44:26] <cradek> you should be able to run it with a parport output doing pwm, or various other things
[22:44:35] <rob-h> simply yea, iv set it up as per manual, got it to give 0-10v output
[22:45:17] <rob-h> im using the nist-lathe.hal as a starting block i have the PWM output fine, but the digispeed does nto seem to be giving me a output on analog
[22:45:59] <cradek> so you have a pwm signal showing up on your parport, verified with a scope or something?
[22:46:16] <rob-h> yea put my scope on it (not EMC scope, real world one ;) )
[22:46:24] <cradek> ok
[22:47:08] <cradek> that eliminates a lot of variables!
[22:47:53] <rob-h> just in manual states active low pulse width mod.. with PWM periode range 2hz to 50Hz
[22:48:23] <cradek> about what period are you getting on the parport?
[22:49:13] <jepler> try setting the pwm frequency of pwmgen. the default setting, 0, means a PDM-like waveform which may switch on or off every base_period -- a lot faster than 50Hz
[22:49:18] <jepler> setting it to 50 will give 50Hz
[22:49:32] <jepler> "setp pwmgen.0.frequency 50"
[22:50:19] <rob-h> where would be best to define that?
[22:50:56] <jepler> in a .hal file -- I'd put it in the same hal file as the other lines about the spindle
[22:51:20] <jepler> maybe right by the "setp" lines for the scale and gain
[22:52:29] <skunkworks> wow - says 2-100hz
[22:53:07] <cradek> 2Hz seems awfully slow
[22:53:23] <cradek> it must have smarts - not just RC filtering etc
[22:53:23] <skunkworks> I suppose it is designed for mach ;)
[22:53:33] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/ (Makefile Makefile.inc.in configure configure.in): "-msse -msse2" must be passed when building modules that use floating point for 64-bit systems
[22:54:14] <rob-h> I will give that above ago in a bit, thank you
[22:54:43] <cradek> it seems like you can troubleshoot this with EMC and digispeed separately
[22:55:09] <cradek> if your scope says the digispeed input is something meaningful (within their specs) you can concentrate exclusively on whether the digispeed is working right
[22:56:59] <skunkworks> how many levels would that be at 50hz (period set to say 50us)
[22:57:26] <jepler> % units "1 / 50 Hz * 50 microsecond"
[22:57:26] <jepler> Definition: 400
[22:57:32] <cradek> the device even has LEDs to help you troubleshoot
[22:57:42] <cradek> for instance, it has a way to show it's working but has no PWM signal
[22:57:42] <jepler> skunkworks: aboug 400
[22:57:52] <jepler> s/g/t/
[22:57:56] <jepler> bbl
[22:57:59] <skunkworks> jepler: thans
[22:58:00] <skunkworks> thanks
[22:58:52] <rob-h> just tryed the "setp pwmgen.0.frequency 50" but EMC errors on it
[22:59:51] <cradek> looks like it's pwmgen.0.pwm-freq
[23:00:23] <cradek> you may also want to set dither-pwm off
[23:00:32] <cradek> see all the options with "man pwmgen"
[23:10:04] <rob-h> Thanks for your quick helps guys, getting late here so ill take aplay with it again tomorow night
[23:10:39] <cradek> ok, good luck
[23:12:18] <cradek> sync
[23:12:22] <cradek> oops
[23:44:47] <cradek> yuck, I got a spurious 'joint on limit switch' while cutting
[23:48:50] <jepler> I wonder why
[23:49:10] <jepler> yuck indeed
[23:52:48] <jmkasunich> noise?
[23:53:23] <jepler> I hope it's that, rather than a pluto timing bug like the last one
[23:59:13] <cradek> well I had chips flying, and the switch terminals aren't covered
[23:59:21] <cradek> so I'd be loathe to blame the pluto at this point