#emc | Logs for 2007-05-29

[14:22:40] <skunkworks_> sweet
[14:22:46] <SWPadnos> it looks like they've been mising for a couple of days
[14:22:49] <SWPadnos> missing, too
[14:22:49] <skunkworks_> SWPadnos: thank you
[14:23:00] <SWPadnos> sure. thanks for the bug report ;)
[14:28:50] <skunkworks_> just for that - you are now required to put your local history into the logger. ;)
[14:29:25] <skunkworks_> so - who is excited about the workshop?
[14:31:39] <jepler> me me!
[14:31:44] <cradek> me too!
[14:32:00] <SWPadnos> uh - I guess I am
[14:32:17] <jepler> SWPadnos: you must be looking forward to the drive
[14:32:32] <SWPadnos> I just have to figure out which vehicle has easier-to-fix AC
[14:32:36] <cradek> yeah that's the best part
[14:32:37] <SWPadnos> yeah - I love that part
[14:32:35] <jepler> are you going to bring coffee and snacks again?
[14:32:42] <SWPadnos> yep, I was planning on it
[14:32:48] <cradek> yay
[14:32:50] <jepler> I was depending on that
[14:32:50] <SWPadnos> any requests?
[14:32:52] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:32:57] <cradek> coffee, and snacks too
[14:33:05] <SWPadnos> ok, so snacks with the coffee then
[14:33:15] <cradek> yeah, both please
[14:33:31] <SWPadnos> I may even be able to bring chocolate, if I can get one or more AC systems fixed in time
[14:33:50] <jepler> long drives without AC .. reminds me of my childhood
[14:34:04] <SWPadnos> yeah, and most of my adulthoos
[14:34:07] <SWPadnos> hood
[14:34:07] <SWPadnos> yo
[14:34:43] <SWPadnos> I bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee (well used), which came with 10-ply tires
[14:34:52] <cradek> I wonder if it would be smart for someone to bring a big electric fan
[14:34:52] <skunkworks_> rough ride
[14:34:54] <SWPadnos> apparently, they use 12-ply on semis
[14:35:21] <SWPadnos> very rough - I'm debating whether I shuold change them for the 2600 mile round trip
[14:35:55] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I'm not sure whether heat+fan+dust is better than just heat+dust
[14:36:17] <SWPadnos> somebody should bring a hose - then we can have mud instead of dust
[14:36:19] <cradek> SWPadnos: 11 mpg?
[14:36:33] <SWPadnos> heh - no, I've been getting a whopping 16+ in town
[14:36:38] <cradek> wow
[14:36:45] <SWPadnos> I've also been debating a tune-up
[14:36:58] <cradek> what year is it?
[14:37:02] <SWPadnos> with the gas prices in the midwest, there may be less debatwe
[14:37:03] <skunkworks_> I am hoping we will be taking dads scion
[14:37:06] <SWPadnos> 2000, 94k miles
[14:37:21] <cradek> not much to tune up
[14:37:24] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:37:34] <SWPadnos> true - plugs, wires, fuel filter ...
[14:37:39] <cradek> maybe plugs, maybe O2 sensors
[14:37:51] <SWPadnos> I can change the air filter easily enough
[14:38:01] <cradek> yeah
[14:38:03] <skunkworks_> I guess our toyota corrola would be good also. But I don't know if the wife wants to be without it.
[14:38:12] <SWPadnos> platinum plugs are $20 or so total
[14:38:40] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I should take the Accord, but I think my wife would kill me when I got back
[14:38:41] <cradek> no point to new wires unless it runs bad in the rain
[14:38:51] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:39:27] <skunkworks_> On the way down last year - the oil pressure lite came on.. (jeep grand chermumble
[14:39:28] <SWPadnos> then there's the minivan, which still runs great, but needs $1500 or thereabouts in bodywork to pass inspection (and gets 25MPG on the highway)
[14:39:28] <skunkworks_> )
[14:39:46] <cradek> what's inspection? :-)
[14:39:53] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:39:54] <skunkworks_> inspection?
[14:40:10] <SWPadnos> true - I can leave before it expires, then leavbe the rusting hulk in NY state
[14:41:08] <SWPadnos> hmmm. I shuold get the garage estimate for the van instead of using my own
[14:41:18] <skunkworks_> sell it in IL and fly back
[14:41:31] <SWPadnos> I think I'd take a big loss doing that ;)
[14:42:26] <cradek> you might come out (way) ahead by renting a small car and leaving the jeep behind
[14:42:37] <cradek> assuming you could fit all your stuff in anything smaller
[14:42:46] <SWPadnos> ding!
[14:43:08] <SWPadnos> also, any rental car you get here isn't allowed to cross the Mississippi river unless you pay more
[14:43:25] <cradek> oh, interesting
[14:43:31] <SWPadnos> (and I need it for 11 days or so, so it's expensive anyway)
[14:43:54] <skunkworks_> You want expensive - rent a car in a different country. :)
[14:44:03] <SWPadnos> been there, done that
[14:44:14] <skunkworks_> I think we paid $600 just for insurance.
[14:44:15] <SWPadnos> try England, where petrol is ~$6/gallon
[14:44:24] <skunkworks_> that too. (ireland)
[14:44:29] <SWPadnos> I actually get most of the insurances from my credit card
[14:44:50] <skunkworks_> I thought it wasn't too bad until I saw it was in liters ;)
[14:44:56] <SWPadnos> I think I only need the 3 pound/day coverage
[14:45:02] <SWPadnos> or thereabouts
[14:45:07] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:45:15] <SWPadnos> 0.899 per
[14:45:24] <SWPadnos> (pounds/liter) ouch!
[14:45:25] <skunkworks_> it was still fun though. more than worth it.
[14:46:41] <SWPadnos> yep - every time :)
[14:46:57] <skunkworks_> the toyota is supposed to get 41mpg highway.
[14:47:30] <SWPadnos> I suspect that depends heavily on not loading it with machinery, and not going petal-to-the-metal ;)
[14:48:07] <cradek> I suspect that depends heavily on lies in advertising
[14:48:10] <skunkworks_> well - 1.8 liter isn't exactly a speed demon. (I think it is 1.8 - maybe 1.5)
[14:48:21] <SWPadnos> heh - and outdated EPA testing techniques
[14:48:23] <skunkworks_> actually we have been getting 38mpg
[14:48:30] <skunkworks_> in our normal driving
[14:48:31] <cradek> wow
[14:48:40] <skunkworks_> Blew me away.
[14:48:44] <SWPadnos> it's funny - I used to get 40+ MPG from a Plymouth Horizon
[14:48:54] <SWPadnos> I got 30+ while towing a U-Haul
[14:48:54] <cradek> I got 23 in the rain and wind at 85mph yesterday
[14:48:59] <cradek> not a great record
[14:49:07] <SWPadnos> that would be excellent ...
[14:49:09] <SWPadnos> for a Hummer
[14:49:15] <cradek> yeah
[14:49:27] <skunkworks_> I just check the subaru and it gets about 24mpg (forester)
[14:49:29] <cradek> I usually get 26-31 highway depending on speed
[14:49:37] <skunkworks_> but it uses about a quart of oil a week.
[14:50:16] <skunkworks_> the stealth get any wheres between 5 and 24mpg. directly proportional on how hard it is driven ;)
[14:51:01] <skunkworks_> but have not been driving it as it takes premium
[14:52:17] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/nml_intf/canon.hh: first pass at fixing the tool table units problems
[14:52:18] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/ (gcodemodule.cc interp_convert.cc): first pass at fixing the tool table units problems
[14:52:18] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/sai/saicanon.cc: first pass at fixing the tool table units problems
[14:52:19] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emccanon.cc: first pass at fixing the tool table units problems
[14:52:26] <skunkworks_> cradek: do you remember what your mustang used to get?
[14:52:43] <cradek> skunkworks_: 15-18
[14:52:47] <skunkworks_> yeck
[14:53:02] <cradek> that was the smallest engine, remember
[14:53:07] <cradek> (piece of crap)
[14:55:33] <skunkworks_> wife got a job working about an hour away. That is why we needed a better vehicle. Seemed anything domestic got really bad milage compared to the toyota/honda.
[14:56:05] <SWPadnos> plus, domestic cars lose their value about twice as fast, and have terrible reliability ratings
[14:56:30] <cradek> I still smile when I think I drove that mustang for a year and then sold it at a gain
[14:56:38] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:00:19] <skunkworks_> The saturn wasn't too bad. But the first car we looked at was the corrola. So everything was compared to the 41mpg highway.
[15:00:45] <SWPadnos> Corollas and Civics are pretty inexpensive cars too (unless you go for the Hybrid version)
[15:01:10] <skunkworks_> right - 15k there abouts. (last years model)
[15:02:26] <SWPadnos> hmmm. they were a bit less expensive a couple of years ago when we got the Accord
[15:02:33] <SWPadnos> I thought around $13k
[15:02:42] <skunkworks_> still am not used to driving it smooth. The clutch is so light and engages over such a long distance.
[15:02:48] <skunkworks_> * skunkworks_ doesn't remember
[15:02:55] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:03:00] <skunkworks_> I remember it being under 15K
[15:03:12] <SWPadnos> with teh str1pes!
[15:03:43] <cradek> go-faster stripes?
[15:03:54] <skunkworks_> Yeck.
[15:04:05] <skunkworks_> coffee can exhaust?
[15:08:24] <SWPadnos> holy cow: http://www.flickr.com/photos/starwarsblog/sets/72157600262862719/
[15:08:43] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: Are you around?
[15:14:42] <Dallur> Hey Martin: yup i'm around
[15:15:00] <Dallur> How is everything going ?
[15:15:31] <martin_lundstrom> Hello Dallur, nice to see you.
[15:16:04] <martin_lundstrom> Im making progress, I hope I soon can make a cut on my next machine
[15:16:27] <Dallur> martin_lundstrom: great :)
[15:18:52] <martin_lundstrom> Now I have trouble with the config, I get a limit sw error on joint 2
[15:18:50] <martin_lundstrom> (16:09:32) martin_lundstrom: Dallur: Are you there?
[15:18:50] <martin_lundstrom> (16:11:17) martin_lundstrom: Dallur: I have been testing around abit and I get a "joint 2 on limit switch error" when I try to start the machine
[15:18:50] <martin_lundstrom> (16:12:15) martin_lundstrom: Dallur: I tried to invert the in signal for the joint 2 in thc.hal but I still get the same error
[15:18:50] <martin_lundstrom> (16:12:34) martin_lundstrom: Dallur: Any ideas?
[15:19:02] <skunkworks_> I wonder if we will see fenn?
[15:25:07] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: Are you at work?
[15:28:53] <Dallur> hmm
[15:29:04] <Dallur> yes I'm at work
[15:29:56] <martin_lundstrom> maybe I can catch you at a better time, when you dont work?
[15:29:58] <Dallur> martin_lundstrom: there might be an issue with the simulator config where it would cause a limit on joint2 if it's not hooked up to anything with a steady off float switch
[15:30:20] <Dallur> Martin_Lundstrom: it's fine but I don't have an emc install here though
[15:31:24] <martin_lundstrom> I connected the thc and i tried both sim and normal thc config
[15:31:36] <martin_lundstrom> the same problem aperes
[15:32:30] <Dallur> martin_lundstrom: I will have to check and try at home
[15:32:54] <martin_lundstrom> Im about to print your odg file to get a better overview of the system
[15:36:13] <Dallur> :)
[15:36:38] <Dallur> it's a good place to start, it's the only way to get the big picture
[16:01:02] <skunkworks_> does anyone rememeber the date of last years cnc workshop?
[16:02:10] <SWPadnos> it was sometime last year
[16:02:14] <jepler> 2006, I think
[16:02:16] <SWPadnos> in May though
[16:02:45] <jepler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_Fest_2006
[16:02:50] <jepler> "CNC Workshop runs from May 15 (Monday) through May 21 (Sunday).
[16:02:52] <jepler> "
[16:05:20] <SWPadnos> aaaaaaghhh - my eyes!!!
[16:05:41] <SWPadnos> I hate red white and blue web pages with large sections of blinking text
[16:27:35] <skunkworks_> thank you
[16:46:32] <skunkworks_> hmm rigid tapping was a topic of the last fest ;)
[16:48:16] <jepler> and with luck it'll be a topic in '08
[16:53:28] <skunkworks_> :)
[16:55:37] <skunkworks_> for some reason - rigid tapping sounds a bit dirty to me.
[17:31:32] <toastydeath> lol rigid tapping
[17:32:09] <toastydeath> i have yet to have someone explain to me why rigid tapping is more advantagous in either a production or prototype situation
[17:33:32] <toastydeath> i'm sure it must have advantages, i'm just not quite certain what they are
[17:33:51] <skunkworks_> compared to what? doing it by hand or having a floating holder?
[17:34:42] <toastydeath> floating holders
[17:35:00] <toastydeath> most of the dudes at work rigid tap with floating holders and don't break any taps
[17:35:04] <toastydeath> the dudes who rigid tap still break some
[17:35:17] <toastydeath> maybe that's just some crappy machinery
[17:37:21] <skunkworks_> :) - I just think it is cool :)
[17:38:18] <toastydeath> lol
[17:39:28] <skunkworks_> with rigid tapping you can peck-tap
[17:40:07] <skunkworks_> which could come in handy
[17:43:00] <toastydeath> i could see that
[17:43:04] <toastydeath> if you were stuck with straight flute taps
[18:57:47] <JymmmEMC> Doesn't seem like a bad price for 3 motors... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150127321150&ih=005&category=78196&ssPageName=STRK:MEFM:RC:IT
[18:58:53] <JymmmEMC> 5.5A * 0.42 ohm = 2.31V/ph does that seem right?
[18:59:08] <skunkworks_> nice - other than you don't know what brand they are.
[18:59:09] <skunkworks_> yes
[18:59:50] <JymmmEMC> and what size they are NEMA23/34/etc
[18:59:55] <skunkworks_> you usually run 10-20(something like that) times the voltage with pwm drives.
[19:00:23] <JymmmEMC> Yeah, I just wanted to make sure the voltage wasn't something like 30V/ph LOL
[19:00:44] <skunkworks_> you want the voltage to be low
[19:00:46] <skunkworks_> right
[19:01:01] <JymmmEMC> 30*25=You're screwed (750V)
[19:02:54] <JymmmEMC> http://homeshopcnc.com/page5.html
[19:05:19] <JymmmEMC> wth, plastic?! http://homeshopcnc.com/page8.html
[19:06:09] <ds2> taig uses PP (PE?) tubing
[19:06:17] <ds2> some people use hoseclamp + rubber hose
[19:08:00] <skunkworks_> :) that is what I did here to play http://www.electronicsam.com/video/MVC-413W.MPG
[19:08:37] <skunkworks_> worked great
[19:12:34] <skunkworks_> air tubing works great as it re-inforced. I would thing high pressure hydraulic hose would also be good (cable re-inforced)
[19:14:23] <JymmmEMC> skunkworks you used rubber reenforced hose - that's a bit different than using PE/PP/PVC
[19:16:40] <JymmmEMC> But if I'm gonna pay $40 for a coupler it better be able to withstand me stepping on it
[19:16:59] <JymmmEMC> that thing looks like it'll break if you just drop it
[19:17:16] <ds2> take a look at the mcmasters catalog for couplers
[19:17:25] <ds2> quite a few have plastic parts
[19:18:18] <JymmmEMC> It's the type of plastic that I question, not just all plastic
[19:18:29] <ds2> okay
[19:18:37] <ds2> FWIW, the PP/PE tubing works fine
[19:19:48] <JymmmEMC> ds2: Try this sometime get some SCH40 PVC pipe, put it on the ground and smack it with a hammer (were a face mask), Then get some grey electrical conduit, and beat it with the hammer like 40 times.
[19:19:56] <JymmmEMC> wear
[19:20:17] <JymmmEMC> the pvc will shatter like glass, the conduit will just smooth
[19:20:24] <JymmmEMC> smoosh
[19:21:17] <archivist> good hydraulic hose may throw the hammer back at you
[19:22:05] <JymmmEMC> ds2: Yeah? Set you tiag with it's PP/PE coupler in the sun for a couple of days and see what happens =)
[19:23:12] <ds2> JymmmEMC: it isn't entirely PP/PE... it just uses the tubes to transfer motion
[19:23:49] <ds2> PVC in a disc configuration might be fine...just not the entire assembly (see mcmasters for a picture of what I mean)
[19:24:34] <ds2> http://www.cartertools.com/mounts.html
[19:24:40] <ds2> this is what Taig does and it is fine
[20:21:27] <sbailard_> sbailard_ is now known as sebastienbailard
[21:17:09] <skunkworks_> Finally got hotel reservations for the cnc workshop :)
[21:17:50] <skunkworks_> I am not a procrastinator or anything
[22:30:26] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: Are you around?
[22:54:50] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: Im making progess... UI found a small error compared with the chart. I think it should be: net FloatSwitch parport.1.pin-13-in-not => or2.1.in1 and2.4.in0 and2.5.in1 and2.6.in1 in tch.hal
[23:22:32] <Rugludallur> martin_lundstrom: ahh, I will try to check it tomorrow, about to go to sleep
[23:22:48] <Rugludallur> martin_lundstrom: did that fix the error for you ?
[23:44:04] <jepler> I know the start, end, and another point on an arc in the XY plane. How do I determine if it's a G2 or a G3 arc? Do I need to place an additional restriction or have an additional piece of data to answer this question?
[23:46:23] <toastydeath> are you trying to go clockwise or counterclockwise around the arc?
[23:47:30] <toastydeath> just look at the start point, and the end point
[23:47:44] <toastydeath> and determine if you need to travel in a CW or CCW direction to make the shape you want
[23:47:50] <toastydeath> from start to finish.
[23:47:53] <jepler> 10 LOOK AT CIRCLE
[23:47:55] <jepler> 20 PRINT IT IS CCW?
[23:48:06] <jepler> 30 GO TO 10
[23:48:26] <toastydeath> uh, you can have it be either
[23:48:54] <jepler> what I mean to say is, I can look at n arc and "tell" whether it's CW or CCW, but I'm interested in writing some computer code that can tell
[23:49:10] <toastydeath> ah
[23:49:29] <toastydeath> i suppose
[23:49:59] <jepler> look at *an* arc
[23:50:30] <toastydeath> do you know the radius
[23:50:44] <jepler> sure, I have a formula that gives the center and the radius based on the information I have
[23:50:50] <toastydeath> g2 and g3 will take a negative radius
[23:51:11] <toastydeath> which complicates things somewhat
[23:51:43] <jepler> I will probably use the center format when I actually output the gcode
[23:52:16] <toastydeath> well i was thinking in terms of figuring out which way to travel
[23:53:25] <toastydeath> like, if we pretend for a minute that negative arcs won't affect anything (and they might not)
[23:53:49] <toastydeath> you could see which way around the arc that point lies
[23:53:57] <toastydeath> like if you have your start point, end point, and a point in the middle somewhere
[23:54:20] <jepler> yeah
[23:54:20] <toastydeath> based on which angular direction you have to travel to get to it will tell you if it's clockwise or counterclockwise
[23:55:15] <jepler> I am thinking I can use atan2() to find the angle of each point compared to an arbitrary point: theta_start, theta_mid, theta_end
[23:56:17] <jepler> if theta_mid is less than theta_start, add 2pi; if theta_end is less than theta_mid add 2pi or 4pi as necessary. Now, if theta_end - theta_start < 2pi it is CCW
[23:56:44] <jepler> (it's only ambiguous if end == start, a 360 degree circle)
[23:57:57] <toastydeath> 360 degree circles are bad practice anyhow
[23:58:10] <robin_sz> meep?
[23:58:48] <jepler> yes, I'll prevent them at another point in my program
[23:59:09] <jepler> (but in general I think you get decent 360 degree circles if you use center-format arcs)
[23:59:46] <toastydeath> some machines have rounding errors
[23:59:54] <toastydeath> and mill off into space