#emc | Logs for 2007-05-17

[01:08:56] <cradek> jepler: a little. I figured some margin was good, and that's after I limited the duty cycle (because there's no current limiting)
[01:09:25] <bytecolor> if anyone has been playing with the apt360 processor, we just finished some documentation for it -> http://bytecolor.homelinux.org/~bytecolor/
[01:10:32] <cradek> wow, I'll have a look through that
[01:10:40] <bytecolor> the bottom link is a .tar.gz of the html, but my server is sloooow so dont get in a hurry! ;)
[01:10:46] <tomp2> bytecolor: thanks! you tar'd it up :)
[01:10:57] <bytecolor> hey tomp, nod.... finally
[01:11:09] <jepler> cradek: you need to discover a chip similar to l298 but with current limiting built in
[01:12:20] <cradek> this runs cool, it seems to work great
[01:13:09] <jepler> cool at the motor and at the driver?
[01:18:17] <cradek> yes
[01:19:10] <cradek> following error < .005 mm on jogs
[01:24:13] <cradek> bytecolor: do I really need a System/360? http://bytecolor.homelinux.org/~bytecolor/apt360-doc/HTML/intro.html#fig1
[01:24:16] <cradek> :-)
[01:24:36] <bytecolor> muahah... um no ;)
[01:25:04] <bytecolor> still a few rough spots in the manual... hey I think I did actually remove all the 'punch card' references
[01:25:26] <cradek> I have a tape punch, but not a card punch...
[01:25:46] <eric_u> card punches were huge
[01:26:09] <eric_u> you could probably use one for a nice desk
[01:26:28] <bytecolor> the original manual we converted to DocBook was from 1969
[01:27:38] <cradek> these under-the-cover algorithms look extremely useful - the terseness and strange format of the language itself is a turnoff for me though, unfortunately
[01:27:59] <cradek> just to learn the 6 letter abbreviations seems silly, now that the lines don't have to fit on one card each
[01:28:38] <bytecolor> nod, the guy that converted the fortran to C has mentioned getting rid of the 6 character limit
[01:28:54] <bytecolor> and the 72 column limit
[01:29:46] <cradek> I bet accepting the old format as well as a new plainer-language format would be very nice
[01:30:10] <bytecolor> the original fortran and os/360 asm is in the source tarball if you ever want to take a peek
[01:30:20] <bytecolor> cradek, yeah that would be nice
[01:30:25] <cradek> just initial impressions - I've not looked at this in any depth - take with a grain of salt
[01:32:08] <cradek> I notice from figure 3 that it doesn't stay in contact with the part when doing corners like the emc radius comp does
[01:32:40] <bytecolor> nod, it's very basic
[01:33:16] <bytecolor> but it also has the capability to produce 5 axis code
[01:33:35] <bytecolor> with a 5 axis post processor of course
[01:34:18] <cradek> that's far from basic then
[01:35:22] <bytecolor> cradek, the power of APT is in the macros, APT provides basic statements, but you can wrap them in macros to abstract all the low level stuff.
[01:35:23] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/libnml/os_intf/_shm.c: this change made tkemc and xemc fail to start
[01:35:30] <bytecolor> but still it's _old_ technology
[01:37:08] <cradek> bytecolor: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/x-motormount.png
[01:37:22] <cradek> a part like this with tangent lines/arcs is fairly hard to calculate by hand
[01:37:33] <cradek> I notice that with apt you don't have to calculate those arc endpoints
[01:37:56] <cradek> err wait, maybe you do
[01:38:08] <cradek> the line endpoints
[01:38:39] <bytecolor> well, it depends on the print, but APT does a lot of the thinking for you as far as geometry creation
[01:39:16] <bytecolor> looks like 3 lines, a circle, and two tangent lines
[01:39:28] <cradek> thanks for working on the documentation. that's surely the best way to get people using it again, if it offers stuff that's still useful today
[01:39:29] <bytecolor> and the corner radii
[01:39:46] <bytecolor> cradek, your welcome
[01:39:55] <cradek> oh making it easy to build/install too :-)
[01:40:01] <bytecolor> it's just a hobby for us in #cam, but fun!
[01:40:03] <cradek> I was a little stumped the first time - it didn't "just build"
[01:40:13] <tomp2> apt can calc those points of tangency (re motor mount)
[01:40:20] <cradek> (actually I still don't have it built)
[01:40:23] <bytecolor> nod, crotchetyGuy is still working out bugs, but it's getting a lot better
[01:40:53] <cradek> a debian package would be the greatest for emc users
[01:41:16] <tomp2> and dupe the slots, given the 4 positions and orientations
[01:41:18] <bytecolor> cradek, I looked into that a bit, it really wouldnt be that difficult to do
[01:41:20] <cradek> tomp2: nice, that seems very useful then
[01:42:15] <cradek> this was very easy for me to do with autocad + REALIZE but without that, it would have been somewhat tedious
[01:42:35] <bytecolor> cradek, do you have a print available for that?
[01:42:48] <tomp2> yeh, nice xmpl
[01:42:54] <cradek> you mean a dimensioned drawing?
[01:42:57] <bytecolor> nod
[01:43:08] <cradek> let me see if I still have the acad dwg
[01:43:27] <tomp2> without the tangencies, but enuf to fully describe it
[01:45:07] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/xaxis-dwg.png
[01:45:18] <Jessxxxx> Hi All, back again.
[01:45:18] <cradek> let me see if I can dimension it
[01:48:05] <Jessxxxx> I guess when ubuntu says you need a minimum of 2gb to do the install, it ain't kiddin. I've been trying to trim it down to the 1.5g partition that I have free. It ain't gonna fit!
[01:49:05] <Jessxxxx> So, I'm just trying to play with the ISO image instead. does that config disable "mount"? I can't seem to access any other disks when I'm booted to the ISO.
[01:49:18] <bytecolor> cradek, we've been thinking about creating a DXF -> APT plugin
[01:50:58] <jepler> Jessxxxx: if you want a small install of ubuntu, you could start with the "server" install (a different cdrom) and add the stuff you need (including the X server and the emc packages). as a bonus that installer requires less RAM.
[01:51:11] <jepler> Jessxxxx: I don't know any reason why 'mount' wouldn't work when running from the live CD but I haven't spent much time running it
[01:52:25] <Jessxxxx> jepler, any clue how much drive space I'll need for the server install?
[01:52:34] <Jessxxxx> btw, ty
[01:53:13] <jepler> Jessxxxx: it says 500 megs here: http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/606#head-e15a51f7ff4cac464dfd54cbed7506ef13814de3
[01:54:30] <Jessxxxx> thx, i'll get on that.
[02:06:37] <cradek> bytecolor, tomp2: I dimensioned it, well enough I hope, do you want dwg, dxf, or ps?
[02:06:54] <cradek> or png
[02:07:12] <cradek> maybe png is most reliable :-)
[02:08:47] <Jessxxxx> cradek, i just ran the latency tests on my lap top. i got no overruns and my lat max is between 7.9k and 10.9k. should this be fine for emc?
[02:09:09] <cradek> yes that sounds great
[02:09:19] <bytecolor> that'll do
[02:09:29] <cradek> did you exercise it pretty well? load apps, move windows around, etc?
[02:09:43] <Jessxxxx> nope. i did nothing at all
[02:11:37] <cradek> you should exercise it
[02:12:39] <Jessxxxx> this is off of the iso image. i just tried opening firefox and lat max jumpped to 13.8k
[02:12:54] <cradek> bytecolor: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/xaxis-dwg.png
[02:13:12] <cradek> hope my dimensioning doesn't suck - I don't know what I'm doing
[02:13:27] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/halui.cc: release shared memory buffers at exit
[02:13:56] <cradek> (tell me if something is missing...)
[02:15:46] <bytecolor> cradek, looks ok, it'll give me something to play with :)
[02:15:46] <toastydeath> you might want to get rid of that angle
[02:15:55] <cradek> if you guys want to document this as an example nontrivial part, I'd be happy to help
[02:15:58] <toastydeath> so the person doesn't have to do math
[02:16:15] <cradek> toastydeath: I think the point is that apt will do it...?
[02:16:20] <bytecolor> cradek, that's something we lack, real world examples
[02:16:23] <toastydeath> you are writing apt?
[02:16:26] <bytecolor> yes
[02:16:41] <toastydeath> oh
[02:16:48] <bytecolor> but I'm far from an APT expert, I'm still learning too :)
[02:17:04] <toastydeath> what postprocessor are you guys using
[02:17:09] <toastydeath> and where do you get it =(
[02:17:45] <jepler> cradek: did you see that I have a "continuous sweep" patch for halscope? I would like to know what you think of it.
[02:18:03] <cradek> woo I'd love to see that
[02:18:14] <cradek> why not check it in?
[02:18:15] <bytecolor> http://sourceforge.net/projects/aptos
[02:19:13] <toastydeath> bytecolor: you are a tiny jesus, bytecolor
[02:19:13] <toastydeath> ty
[02:19:48] <toastydeath> hey, i used your name twice
[02:19:51] <toastydeath> that's like, extra points.
[02:20:00] <Jessxxxx> tiny jesus? does that mean he has splinters in his hands and side?
[02:20:11] <toastydeath> no
[02:20:18] <toastydeath> but he does have links to apt postprocessors
[02:20:23] <toastydeath> just like jesus
[02:20:35] <Jessxxxx> *smiles*
[02:21:02] <bytecolor> toastydeath, you can download the apt360 doc here -> http://bytecolor.homelinux.org/~bytecolor/apt360-doc.tar.gz
[02:21:05] <cradek> jepler: in case you missed it at the netsplit: why not check it in?
[02:21:17] <bytecolor> we havent put it in the release yet (sorry for the spam people)
[02:21:19] <jepler> cradek: because it is always turned on, which I don't think is desirable
[02:21:28] <cradek> oh
[02:21:52] <toastydeath> i appriciate your spam
[02:22:54] <jmkasunich> jepler: are you talking about a continuous mode for halscope?
[02:23:12] <jepler> jmkasunich: indeed
[02:23:16] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/scope-cont.patch
[02:24:09] <jmkasunich> I think there is still commented out code that creates a "roll" button in the mode menu (along with normal, single, and stop
[02:24:13] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich looks
[02:24:17] <jepler> oh really
[02:24:38] <jepler> scope.c: printf("Sorry, ROLL mode is not supported yet\n");
[02:24:51] <jmkasunich> yeah, that
[02:24:52] <jepler> but yeah I see some support for the GUI portion
[02:24:58] <jepler> (I mean, I do now)
[02:25:20] <bytecolor> toastydeath, if you have any questions, ask in #cam, I think most every one is awake at the moment
[02:25:36] <mschuhmacher_> http://www.editthis.info/opencam/Main_Page
[02:26:13] <jmkasunich> jepler: how hard would it be to make that button enable your patch?
[02:26:31] <jepler> jmkasunich: I'll see
[02:26:57] <jepler> tomorrow, anyway
[02:27:00] <jepler> 'night guys
[02:27:03] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[02:27:11] <mschuhmacher_> good night
[02:27:20] <cradek> goodnight
[02:27:24] <cradek> (got it running here)
[02:27:30] <bytecolor> jepler, thanks for the bwidgets
[02:27:32] <Jessxxxx> thx for the help jepler
[02:29:01] <cradek> seems like you have to drag trigger/pos to the bottom
[02:29:56] <jmkasunich> If I wasn't tired I'd try to merge jepler's patch and figure out what else is needed'
[02:30:27] <cradek> I'm getting seasick
[02:30:37] <jmkasunich> from watching waves roll by?
[02:30:41] <cradek> yeah
[02:30:51] <jmkasunich> use square waves
[02:31:09] <cradek> I think it shouldn't scroll - it should draw from left to right, erasing the old plot as it goes
[02:31:30] <jmkasunich> I would disagree, but thats probably a matter of taste
[02:31:31] <cradek> like a real scope with a trace that fades just at the right time
[02:31:46] <cradek> do you have it running?
[02:31:53] <jmkasunich> no
[02:32:00] <cradek> ok you'll change your mind :-)
[02:32:33] <cradek> nothing holds still, so you can't really see it
[02:32:36] <jmkasunich> dunno... every scope I've ever used with a roll mode acted like a strip chart recorder, not an alaog scope
[02:32:57] <cradek> oh ok, I've never used that
[02:33:17] <cradek> we have two totally different things in mind then
[02:33:25] <jmkasunich> the usuall approach is that roll mode lets you see roughly what is happening, then when you see something interesting you hit the hold button (or it triggers), and the image freezes
[02:33:28] <cradek> I was thinking "this isn't how a scope works at all"
[02:33:40] <jmkasunich> you're thinking analog scope
[02:33:48] <cradek> yes
[02:34:16] <jmkasunich> the problem with that approach is when you decide to freeze it
[02:34:35] <jmkasunich> instead of seeing the last N seconds as an uninterrupted trace, its split and wrapped
[02:34:54] <cradek> yes
[02:35:03] <Jessxxxx> does the server install of ubuntu come preconfiged for real time?
[02:35:12] <cradek> no
[02:35:25] <Jessxxxx> sucky
[02:35:25] <cradek> but, you can install the server CD, then add the realtime kernel and emc2 packages
[02:35:45] <cradek> but you'll want so many other things (like X) that's probably a waste of time
[02:36:21] <Jessxxxx> *smiles* cradek, you can do that in your sleep. I'll be RTFMing for two days trying to figure that all out!
[02:36:42] <cradek> yeah, don't -- for a first time, use our CD instead
[02:37:20] <Jessxxxx> I'll need to buy another drive then. I'm so cheap that my mill is using steppers scrounged from floppy drives!
[02:37:26] <cradek> fwiw there are all sorts of instructions on our wiki, for installing different ways
[02:37:46] <cradek> Jessxxxx: you only need about 3GB - do you have a 4G disk around?
[02:37:54] <cradek> here, have one of mine
[02:38:01] <Jessxxxx> ty
[02:38:10] <cradek> what is this "buy" thing you're talking about?
[02:38:20] <jmkasunich> Jessxxxx: did you say you are in indiana?
[02:38:35] <cradek> oh is that where you get to use something the first time? :-)
[02:38:43] <cradek> I'm not very familiar with that
[02:38:44] <Jessxxxx> *smiles* I have about 2TB here, but I only have 1.6gb free in the laptop I'm using.
[02:38:50] <Jessxxxx> Yeah, I'm in Indiana
[02:39:04] <jmkasunich> you should come to the CNC workshop in June
[02:39:06] <jmkasunich> only one state over
[02:39:11] <Jessxxxx> where?
[02:39:15] <cradek> definitely come
[02:39:19] <jmkasunich> galesburg Ill
[02:39:30] <cradek> even skunkworks will be there (right?)
[02:39:35] <Jessxxxx> you have a link?
[02:39:38] <skunkworks> Yes
[02:39:41] <jmkasunich> looking
[02:39:42] <Jymmm> Jessxxxx: Yeah, goto the wrkshop, especially if you have a 4" beard! LOL
[02:39:44] <cradek> cnc-workshop.com
[02:39:49] <jmkasunich> yeah, that one
[02:39:52] <skunkworks> * skunkworks still needs to make a reservation
[02:40:08] <Jessxxxx> ummm... me? no... I no have a beard
[02:40:16] <cradek> oh god, what an awful website
[02:40:23] <Jymmm> Jessxxxx: you wil by the time you leave! LOL
[02:40:25] <jmkasunich> yeah, its horrid
[02:40:25] <cradek> the event is nice though
[02:40:31] <cradek> http://cnc-workshop.com/info.asp
[02:40:34] <cradek> half the page is blinking
[02:40:41] <Jessxxxx> jym, err... I'm a woman
[02:40:49] <Jymmm> Jessxxxx: I know =)
[02:41:00] <Jessxxxx> groan
[02:41:09] <Jessxxxx> thx for the link
[02:41:14] <cradek> http://cnc-workshop.com/2006%20PHOTOS.pdf
[02:41:16] <cradek> hahaha
[02:41:20] <cradek> look at the second page
[02:41:31] <skunkworks> wait - a woman on #emc? That just doesn't seem right.
[02:41:34] <cradek> err the first page!
[02:41:49] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Wait, I thought you were the first femaole in here.
[02:42:41] <skunkworks> cradek: I cristen you spiral chris
[02:42:50] <skunkworks> christen?
[02:42:50] <cradek> oh look, we've promised rigid tapping
[02:42:54] <Jessxxxx> cradek, it -is- a crappy website. What is the date?
[02:43:00] <jmkasunich> june 11-17
[02:43:10] <Jymmm> Jessxxxx: Not to worry though, they're all nice
[02:43:25] <cradek> Jymmm won't be there, don't worry
[02:43:41] <Jessxxxx> sheesh... are all of you guys over 90?
[02:43:48] <jmkasunich> no
[02:43:52] <cradek> combined, surely
[02:43:55] <Jymmm> just cradek
[02:43:56] <jmkasunich> guys over 35 yes
[02:43:57] <Jessxxxx> I mean, I like older men and all, but this is crazy.
[02:44:02] <jmkasunich> with very rare exceptions
[02:44:17] <Jessxxxx> (looking at the photos)
[02:44:29] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/cncworkshop/cncworkshopemc.jpg
[02:44:31] <cradek> we had ages from 20? to 70? there
[02:44:43] <jmkasunich> definitely skewed towards 70 tho
[02:44:43] <cradek> that's excluding boris
[02:44:45] <skunkworks> nail in the coffin
[02:44:48] <cradek> yes
[02:44:54] <jmkasunich> right, boris is definitely the youngest
[02:45:24] <cradek> skunkworks's photo is most of the EMC crowd
[02:46:05] <jmkasunich> defintely skewed towards beards and glasses too
[02:46:42] <Jessxxxx> the user manual is 216 pages.... What page do I find where to config my para port pin outs? (i know, I know... RTFM)
[02:46:44] <cradek> I have new glasses so I look *even sexier* now than in those photos
[02:46:54] <jmkasunich> lol
[02:47:24] <cradek> actually I liked those glasses better
[02:47:25] <cradek> hmm.
[02:47:27] <jmkasunich> you trying to find the standard parport pinout? or learn how to create your own?
[02:47:54] <Jessxxxx> If I come to the workshop, I'll drive my '65 midget. With all those machinists, if I break down you all can make my parts.
[02:48:12] <Jymmm> LOL
[02:48:20] <Jessxxxx> jmka: is there a standard pinout?
[02:48:26] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:48:29] <jmkasunich> two of them actually
[02:48:33] <jmkasunich> hang on a sec
[02:49:42] <jmkasunich> the "stepper" config invokes "standard_pinout.hal", which looks like this:
[02:49:48] <jmkasunich> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/configs/stepper/standard_pinout.hal?annotate=1.6
[02:49:50] <Jessxxxx> I'm using http://www.dtllc.com/4xcnc10b.html as my controller
[02:50:10] <jmkasunich> lines 14-19 assign step and dir to parport pins
[02:50:26] <jmkasunich> there is also xylotex_pinout.hal, which swaps the step and dir pins
[02:50:43] <jmkasunich> and you can create your own similar hal file to do any pinout you want
[02:51:26] <jmkasunich> standard_pinout.hal is pretty heavily commented, you can see how other things can be assigned to pins as well
[02:51:28] <Jessxxxx> sorry to ask, but where is the hal config manual? in the user manual? (I havent gotten thru all 216 pages yet)
[02:51:48] <jmkasunich> there is a partial HAL manual in the users manual
[02:52:00] <jmkasunich> and a more detailed one accessible from linuxcnc.org documents page
[02:52:00] <cradek> looks like your driver uses one of the standard pinouts for at least step/dir - the rest of the enables and switch inputs you can hook up however you like
[02:53:00] <Jessxxxx> so far I've just got the steppers wired and the home switched.
[02:53:09] <Jessxxxx> oh yeah, and 1 e-stop switch
[02:53:24] <Jessxxxx> ....and the home switches...
[02:53:46] <cradek> that's more switches than both of my machines combined
[02:54:09] <Jessxxxx> it's just 4... 1 for each axis, and 1 estop.
[02:54:15] <Jessxxxx> you dont use home switches?
[02:54:21] <jmkasunich> cradek: you have homes on the lathe only>
[02:54:21] <jmkasunich> ?
[02:54:27] <cradek> only on X
[02:55:08] <cradek> home on Z wouldn't be good for much
[02:55:22] <jmkasunich> except for wacking into the chuck
[02:55:46] <cradek> I home Z with the tool "near" the chuck
[02:55:53] <Jessxxxx> I just installed them to check for lost steps. As i said, these floppy steppers don't have much torque
[02:55:53] <bytecolor> Fred Smith, is that the Vector CAM d00d?
[02:56:19] <skunkworks> Jessxxxx: what kind of machine is this?
[02:56:40] <Jessxxxx> a 3-axis router/mill of my own design.
[02:57:04] <skunkworks> Nice.
[02:57:12] <jmkasunich> bytecolor: if by dood you mean the guy who sells it, yeah....
[02:57:15] <Jessxxxx> and x-table on the base, and the y and z on a gantry.
[02:57:49] <Jessxxxx> it's kinda like the rockcliff design, if you are familiar with those.
[02:58:12] <skunkworks> wait - for some reason I thought you said you where in india?
[02:58:12] <bytecolor> think I had his name stored from when I used to lurk amcnc
[02:58:17] <Jessxxxx> it drives a dremel or a trim router around.
[02:58:24] <Jessxxxx> indiana
[02:58:34] <skunkworks> ah lol
[02:58:40] <jmkasunich> like so... http://www.rockcliffmachine.com/pictures.htm
[02:58:41] <Jessxxxx> (a little ways from india)
[02:58:46] <Jessxxxx> yes
[02:58:51] <Jessxxxx> similar to those
[02:59:39] <skunkworks> Lots of rockcliff info on cnczone also
[02:59:41] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/final-tuning.png
[02:59:44] <cradek> jmkasunich: ^^
[02:59:59] <Jessxxxx> i've been driving my machine around using a lousy qbasic program, and I'm itching to get it running g-code.
[03:00:12] <jmkasunich> cradek: not bad at all
[03:00:20] <jmkasunich> whats 5 microns in real units?
[03:00:36] <cradek> .00019 in
[03:00:47] <Jessxxxx> thats small....
[03:00:50] <cradek> that's a G0
[03:01:09] <jmkasunich> it'd be interesting to see it doing a small fast circle
[03:01:25] <cradek> how small?
[03:01:36] <jmkasunich> I dunno
[03:01:39] <skunkworks> cradek: very cool
[03:01:58] <jmkasunich> 1/16" diameter, 10ipm or so feedrate maybe?
[03:02:24] <jmkasunich> more fun would be line, 180 degree arc, line, with blending
[03:02:56] <skunkworks> cradek: what is the top speed? 60ipm?
[03:03:00] <jmkasunich> tight circle means demanding accel, even tho speed is moderate
[03:03:10] <tomp2> is there a radial acceleration ( seperate from linear )?
[03:03:34] <jmkasunich> tomp2: its not specified separately in the ini, if thats what you mean
[03:04:04] <cradek> skunkworks: 23mm/sec = 54 ipm
[03:04:17] <cradek> I slowed it down a bit, 60 was the target but I wanted more headroom
[03:04:42] <jmkasunich> you still have the PID limit set at 20V?
[03:04:52] <skunkworks> cradek: Very quiet with the pluto?
[03:04:58] <Jessxxxx> jmk: in the configuration selector, which config uses the standard pinout?
[03:05:08] <jmkasunich> stepper
[03:05:11] <cradek> jmkasunich: 24 I think
[03:05:37] <skunkworks> stepper_whatever
[03:05:45] <jmkasunich> Jessxxxx: stepper_inch and stepper_mm both use standard pinout
[03:06:00] <jmkasunich> thats called out in the respective ini file, and can be changed
[03:06:29] <Jessxxxx> how does stepper inch differ from xyza?
[03:06:39] <jmkasunich> xyza has an A axis, for a rotary table
[03:07:03] <jmkasunich> the other two only have xyz
[03:07:49] <cradek> jmkasunich: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/circle-plot.png
[03:07:54] <Jessxxxx> I'm using a 4 axis controller, but I've just installed three for now. I won't have a problem using the xyza and jus not implementing the a at this time, will I?
[03:08:21] <skunkworks> cradek
[03:08:24] <skunkworks> oops
[03:08:35] <jmkasunich> you could take either route
[03:08:39] <skunkworks> cradek: is the spikes your backlash showing?
[03:08:48] <cradek> skunkworks: I bet so
[03:09:04] <cradek> or, nonlinearity around zero pwm
[03:09:14] <jmkasunich> use stepper_inch and don't drive any signals on the 4th axis pins, or use xyza, your choice
[03:09:23] <skunkworks> can you set a min voltage for the pwm?
[03:09:28] <jmkasunich> unless you have or intend to get soon a rotary, I'd use stepper_inch
[03:09:38] <jmkasunich> why have the A axis cluttering up the GUI
[03:09:44] <cradek> skunkworks: yes but I'm not sure how that works
[03:10:00] <Jessxxxx> ok
[03:10:25] <jmkasunich> cradek: it certainly looks like you have a deadband there
[03:10:45] <tomp2> the moving gantry.. uses 1 or 2 motors to move the gantry?
[03:10:47] <cradek> that's not surprising at all
[03:10:56] <jmkasunich> some range of output for which either the pwmgen doesn't make pulses, or the motor just isn't getting enough juice to move
[03:11:23] <skunkworks> you could increas the voltage to the motors until you got movement - then use that as your min dc. Wonder if I am thinking wrong
[03:11:32] <skunkworks> -20%
[03:11:34] <skunkworks> or so
[03:11:41] <Jessxxxx> tomp2? my gantry? it doesn't move.
[03:11:55] <jmkasunich> skunkworks: problem is, you want to be able to do zero duty cycle, when you are sitting still
[03:12:04] <skunkworks> ah -
[03:13:18] <jmkasunich> cradek: the ferror scale is still 10m/div?
[03:13:23] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/16th.png
[03:13:28] <cradek> 1/16th dia circles are a lot more exciting
[03:13:31] <cradek> yes
[03:13:42] <tomp2> Jessxxxx: ok, the x or y moves underneath the gantry
[03:13:55] <cradek> err 1/8 dia
[03:14:26] <tomp2> the emc code always included the ballbar tests, any body got a ballbar?
[03:14:30] <jmkasunich> tomp: like these: http://www.rockcliffmachine.com/pictures.htm
[03:14:34] <Jessxxxx> tomp2: the x moves under a static gantry. the y moves across the gantry. the z moves up and down off of the y.
[03:15:36] <jmkasunich> cradek: your next mission, should you choose to accept it: characterize your backlash and/or screw error and add the corrections
[03:15:51] <jmkasunich> with the excellent motor control you got going there, it shouldn't be too hard to do
[03:16:29] <skunkworks> jmkasunich: sorry you let them go?
[03:16:33] <skunkworks> ;)
[03:16:48] <jmkasunich> nope, they're too small for my machine
[03:17:12] <jmkasunich> cradek: I just noticed that the last plot shows a vertical scale of 0m/div
[03:17:17] <jmkasunich> is that really what it says?
[03:20:12] <tomp2> look at the error plots and look at these ballbar plots http://www.moldmakingtechnology.com/articles/040306.html
[03:22:23] <skunkworks> Jessxxxx: are you in the chicago area?
[03:22:40] <Jessxxxx> after selecting my config, the ui loads and then I get a "AXIS error: Unexpected realtime delay: check dmesg for details"
[03:22:51] <Jessxxxx> nope... I'm about an hour south of Indy
[03:22:59] <Jessxxxx> near Bloomington
[03:23:03] <jmkasunich> Jessxxxx: laptop?
[03:23:18] <Jessxxxx> yep, but it ran the realtime tests fine
[03:23:23] <jmkasunich> hmm
[03:23:35] <jmkasunich> do "dmesg" from the command line to read the message
[03:23:47] <skunkworks> usb memory stick installed?
[03:24:01] <skunkworks> * skunkworks 's canned question
[03:24:03] <jmkasunich> it will list the list 5 time measurements - the error is indicated when one of them is more than 10% higher than the average
[03:24:11] <Jessxxxx> no memory stick
[03:25:43] <skunkworks> Jessxxxx: how long did you run the rtai latency test?
[03:25:48] <Jessxxxx> the 5 are all near the same... the next line reads "elapseThis time, there were 17569019 which is so anomalously large that it is obably s
[03:25:56] <Jessxxxx> and the error ends there
[03:26:27] <jmkasunich> are you on the EMC computer right now?
[03:26:28] <Jessxxxx> I ran the test about 10 minutes while also running gimp and firefox
[03:26:35] <jmkasunich> if so, please paste the whole message here
[03:26:48] <Jessxxxx> no, it's a different machine
[03:26:53] <jmkasunich> ok
[03:27:16] <jmkasunich> were the other 5 numbers close to 17569019?
[03:27:35] <Jessxxxx> not at all
[03:27:51] <Jessxxxx> they were ~639831
[03:28:07] <jmkasunich> is this about a 600MHz computer?
[03:28:21] <Jessxxxx> low batt
[03:28:44] <Jessxxxx> sorry... had to plug in quick
[03:28:51] <jmkasunich> heh
[03:28:58] <jmkasunich> the EMC machine, or the IRC one?
[03:29:00] <Jessxxxx> ummm... yep... it's a 600mhz
[03:29:15] <jmkasunich> if it was the EMC one, the low battery warning is just the kind of thing that causes realtime issues
[03:29:16] <Jessxxxx> the irc had the low batt. the emc is the 600mhz
[03:29:21] <jmkasunich> ok
[03:29:50] <Jessxxxx> the emc box is an old dell latitude cpx
[03:29:50] <jmkasunich> that 17569019 number means it took nearly 30mS to do what it usually does every 1mS
[03:30:06] <Jessxxxx> i didn't ask it to do anything...
[03:30:11] <Jessxxxx> i just started the app
[03:30:20] <SWPadnos> it's always doing something
[03:30:23] <jmkasunich> it = part of EMC
[03:30:25] <SWPadnos> even if that something is standing still
[03:30:39] <Jessxxxx> now I got some rtapi warnings.
[03:30:39] <jmkasunich> as soon as you start the program, the motion controller runs 1000 times a second
[03:30:51] <Jessxxxx> ahhh...
[03:31:36] <Jessxxxx> I would assume that running off the ISO image also adds a bit of lag. true?
[03:31:51] <jmkasunich> it shouldn't, but can't rule that out
[03:32:12] <jmkasunich> cradek had a laptop that would have realtime errors every time the cooling fan turned on or off
[03:32:20] <jmkasunich> things like that are why we don't recommend laptops
[03:32:40] <Jessxxxx> you have an extra machine sitting around?
[03:32:48] <Jessxxxx> (i don't)
[03:33:04] <jmkasunich> I tend to pull computers out of dumpsters
[03:33:24] <Jessxxxx> *smiles* that's why I'm using a 600mhz laptop....
[03:33:30] <jmkasunich> dumpster grade computers run EMC just fine
[03:34:06] <jmkasunich> I can't say I've ever run the RT tests, or emc itself, from the un-installed Live-CD
[03:34:30] <jmkasunich> in theory it doesn't matter, but laptop bioses can do strange things
[03:34:41] <Jessxxxx> I'll yank the drive out of my MP3 player and install to that in the morning.
[03:35:00] <Jessxxxx> maybe that will work.
[03:35:19] <jmkasunich> you mean putting a bigger drive in the laptop so you can install?
[03:35:24] <Jessxxxx> yes
[03:35:33] <jmkasunich> it might, but I wouldn't count on it
[03:35:52] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich <-- not fond of laptops at all
[03:35:58] <Jessxxxx> if not, then i'm sunk till I get some $$$.
[03:36:14] <skunkworks> Jessxxxx: do you know if the laptops video uses shared mememory?
[03:36:22] <Jessxxxx> that, or I keep writing control programs in basic!
[03:36:36] <Jessxxxx> dunno, skunk.
[03:37:06] <Jessxxxx> i'll reboot and go into bios if you want me to check.
[03:37:08] <jmkasunich> go treelawn surfing, for people who just bought Vista and had to throw out their perfectly servicable computers because the bloatware won't run
[03:37:30] <Jessxxxx> treelawn???
[03:37:46] <jmkasunich> if you do make it to the workshop, I bet there will be suitable computers there, for free or cheap at the swapmeet
[03:37:55] <jmkasunich> treelawn - where people put out their trash
[03:38:00] <Jessxxxx> btw, Vista is a swearword
[03:38:03] <Jymmm> Dumpster Diving
[03:38:29] <Jessxxxx> i know dumpster diving.... but where the heck does the word "treelawn" come from?
[03:38:37] <jmkasunich> Vista is great - it results in many more Linux usable computers in dumpsters!
[03:38:49] <jmkasunich> that strip of grass between the sidewalk and the street
[03:38:50] <Jessxxxx> jmk, are you in europe or asia or something?
[03:38:54] <jmkasunich> (at least in the suburbs)
[03:39:00] <skunkworks> It is a jmkism ;)
[03:39:33] <SWPadnos> I had to look it up the fitst time he said it too ;)
[03:39:35] <jmkasunich> pthpbt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_lawn
[03:40:02] <jmkasunich> I'm in ohio
[03:40:15] <Jessxxxx> I'm as much a freegan as the next. My first reason for building this silly machine was to put these old steppers to some interesting use.
[03:40:30] <jmkasunich> cool
[03:40:30] <Jessxxxx> ohio? that's practically eastern europe
[03:40:35] <jmkasunich> lol
[03:40:57] <jmkasunich> the suburb I live in actually has quite a lot of russian immigrants from the last 10 years or so
[03:41:38] <jmkasunich> so its sort of eastern europe
[03:41:41] <Jessxxxx> I had this russian admirer who wanted to do mixed wrestling... but thats a story for another time.
[03:42:05] <Jessxxxx> well, folks, I'm off to bed. my head is spinning.
[03:42:09] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[03:42:19] <Jessxxxx> thank you all for all the help!
[03:42:24] <jmkasunich> that sounds like a good plan for me too.... lots of late nights lately
[03:42:24] <Jessxxxx> you've been wonderful!!!
[03:43:13] <Jessxxxx> talk tomorrow after I install that new drive and test things out. ciao
[03:44:08] <jmkasunich> hmm, the talk page for the treelawn wikipedia article says the usage is unique to northeastern ohio, and to a lesser extent michigan
[03:44:17] <jmkasunich> I grew up in PA, and I thought it was used there too
[03:53:55] <Jymmm> * Jymmm left the room (quit: all the big kids are doing it)
[04:01:07] <skunkworks> boy - I should go to bed.
[06:14:30] <Jymmm> Hey, if you're looking for some servo drives... http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Parker-Compumotor-Servo-drive-controllers_W0QQitemZ280115361335QQihZ018QQcategoryZ78191QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[06:50:07] <chr0n1c> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280115415266&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=280115361335&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCat&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget
[06:50:22] <chr0n1c> **did you see that Jymmm
[06:50:38] <Jymmm> I don't need a motor
[06:50:44] <chr0n1c> 60 hp!
[06:50:56] <chr0n1c> fun for a lathe or a huge spindle
[06:51:08] <chr0n1c> *on a mill
[06:51:39] <Jymmm> I got 260HP if I attach it to the axel of my car.
[06:51:50] <chr0n1c> oh my
[06:52:03] <chr0n1c> and 3 speeds + reverse
[06:52:10] <chr0n1c> maybe even overdrive
[06:52:16] <Jymmm> yep
[06:52:27] <Jymmm> and pportable too
[07:11:47] <Jymmm> Is this any good? http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=4103
[09:46:11] <renesis> sup machine geekers
[09:46:37] <alex_joni> nuttin :)
[09:54:21] <lerneaen_hydra> any idea which type of place has 24/48V DC motors in the 300-500 watt range?
[09:54:33] <lerneaen_hydra> or where they could be salvaged from
[09:54:39] <alex_joni> look for truck wiper motors
[09:54:52] <alex_joni> 24VDC 200W or such
[09:55:05] <lerneaen_hydra> window wiper with 200watts? O_o
[09:55:25] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: or wiredrive (welding) motors
[09:56:13] <lerneaen_hydra> are they also that powerful?
[09:56:47] <alex_joni> 1-200 W
[09:57:11] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, I see
[12:08:46] <eric_u> comcast broke their nameserver
[12:19:46] <alex_joni> I find it hard to believe they have only one :)
[12:26:45] <alex_joni> dns01.jdc01.pa.comcast.net , dns02.jdc01.pa.comcast.net etc
[12:40:13] <jepler> good morning guys
[12:40:39] <alex_joni> hi jeff
[12:44:09] <lerneaen_hydra> 'lo ther
[12:44:10] <lerneaen_hydra> *there
[12:45:51] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/ (scope_disp.c scope_usr.h scope_vert.c): add units readout (e.g, 1M/div) below channel name in scope display
[12:47:23] <alex_joni> hi samco
[12:47:28] <skunkworks> Hi alex
[12:47:47] <skunkworks> hows the wedding coming? getting close isn't it?
[12:48:13] <alex_joni> next week
[12:48:25] <skunkworks> oh - butterflies?
[12:48:50] <alex_joni> not really :)
[12:49:07] <alex_joni> what for? butterflies aren't very usefull.. except they look pretty
[12:49:49] <alex_joni> ;-)
[12:49:58] <skunkworks> ;)
[12:50:16] <skunkworks> * skunkworks is eating crackers and drinking gatoraid still.
[12:53:36] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/ (scope.c scope_horiz.c scope_usr.h): implement 'roll mode' -- it interacts a bit strangely with triggering but otherwise it's nice enough
[12:53:51] <eric_u> how can I talk on here and not be able to browse the web?
[12:54:11] <eric_u> nameserver problem, correct?
[12:54:42] <alex_joni> eric_u: ping & traceroute are your friends
[12:54:58] <eric_u> can't ping any names I know
[13:00:24] <alex_joni> is this a linux box?
[13:00:29] <eric_u> yes
[13:01:35] <alex_joni> try dig
[13:01:42] <alex_joni> dig www.yahoo.com for example
[13:01:52] <alex_joni> or dig +trace www.yahoo.com
[13:02:37] <eric_u> no servers could be reached
[13:03:01] <alex_joni> try ping
[13:03:28] <eric_u> 95 ms
[13:03:34] <eric_u> is that you?
[13:03:36] <alex_joni> that's www.yahoo.com
[13:03:41] <eric_u> ok
[13:03:50] <alex_joni> I suggest you check /etc/resolv.conf
[13:04:28] <alex_joni> add and as new nameservers
[13:04:40] <eric_u> that's interesting, it's my router
[13:04:59] <alex_joni> strange :)
[13:05:28] <eric_u> it probably routes those messages through
[13:05:40] <alex_joni> * alex_joni heads home
[13:05:44] <eric_u> thanks
[13:05:51] <alex_joni> np
[13:05:59] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes off to celebrate ;)
[13:16:14] <skunkworks> cradek: what is the diameter of the hole thru your spindle encoder?
[13:25:37] <cradek> it's large - maybe 1"
[13:25:44] <cradek> not sure though
[13:28:07] <skunkworks> Thanks
[13:29:00] <cradek> I had to make a fairly thick size adapter to make it fit
[13:29:37] <skunkworks> so 1 inch was still bigger than the outside diameter of the spindle shaft?
[13:29:45] <cradek> yes much bigger
[13:29:49] <skunkworks> Ok
[13:30:36] <cradek> now that I look at a ruler, I think the encoder must be bigger than 1"
[13:31:01] <skunkworks> There hasn't been any developement of turbocnc.. People where wondering what was going on and what alternatives there are. someone mentioned emc but that it didn't do threading. ;)
[13:31:36] <cradek> umm...
[13:31:39] <cradek> news flash!
[13:31:56] <skunkworks> but they are used to single pulse per rev for threading though
[13:33:43] <cradek> someone could write a hal module to do that, but it'd be a big piece of suck
[13:34:59] <cradek> it would make counts and a generate a fake index pulse when it thinks the speed is constant enough
[13:35:33] <cradek> I saw a video of turbocnc threading and that's what they had to do - it waits many revolutions before each pass to try to get the speed to stabilize
[13:35:55] <skunkworks> So when I said you need a real encoder with index pulse - it needed some explaining. one of the questions was how it was mounted. I said that if the lathe was small enough you can get encoders with thru holes - otherwise cog belts and pullys
[13:36:05] <skunkworks> I would have liked to see that video
[13:36:25] <cradek> I bet it was youtube or something, maybe I can find it
[13:37:59] <cradek> maybe it was mach - does it do that too?
[13:39:11] <cradek> http://youtube.com/watch?v=tFWmeG-2uVo
[13:39:21] <cradek> this software seems to work pretty well
[13:39:40] <skunkworks> I think mach is the same way
[13:40:57] <cradek> http://youtube.com/watch?v=vFkLrQZVcpc
[13:41:09] <cradek> doesn't say what software this is, but it has a long wait at each pass
[13:41:28] <cradek> also it goes bang-bang-bang while it's cutting, maybe one bang for every revolution
[13:42:22] <jepler> bang bang bang? Is it supposed to do that?
[13:42:29] <cradek> seems unlikely
[13:43:11] <cradek> that may be it (badly) adjusting for the slowdown when it gets the pulse
[13:43:48] <skunkworks> yikes. Did I mention how cool emc2 is?
[13:43:51] <cradek> one algorithm would be to time the unloaded spindle, then blindly trust it to stay that speed for the pass
[13:44:04] <cradek> when that didn't work, you might be tempted to adjust at each pulse during the pass
[13:44:16] <cradek> when that didn't work, you'd ship the software anyway :-)
[13:45:39] <skunkworks> you would have the software look into the future to see how much the spindle was going to slow down between pulses
[13:46:33] <cradek> yes
[13:53:57] <jepler> that's true for encoders too, but the amount you have to look into the future is much smaller
[13:54:09] <lerneaen_hydra> isn't that how mach does threads?
[13:54:24] <SWPadnos> mach gets by with one pulse, but I think it can use up to 32
[13:54:44] <lerneaen_hydra> ugh
[13:54:47] <cradek> well one update per servo cycle is the most you can ever hope for, and you can get that with a suitable encoder
[13:55:00] <SWPadnos> I'd check that, but I'm lstening to music with WinAmp, and I don't want my system to wacky
[13:55:14] <SWPadnos> to get wacky
[14:00:02] <skunkworks> so - paul is helping people off list? odd. "hi paul"
[14:01:12] <cradek> someone with a youtube account should ask that second guy what software he's using
[14:02:00] <anonimasu> heh
[14:03:07] <cradek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1vNveXSprc
[14:03:15] <cradek> wow his homemade machine is cool
[14:08:50] <jepler> skunkworks: it doesn't sound like his "advice" was that "useful" -- tclx isn't needed for emc2
[14:09:50] <cradek> it's nice of him to try to help anyway
[14:10:04] <cradek> maybe he'll come around and be his old self again one of these days
[14:11:02] <SWPadnos> death first!
[14:11:03] <jepler> not that your advice was right either :-P
[14:11:07] <SWPadnos> oops, wrong window
[14:11:14] <jepler> $ dpkg-query -S /usr/lib/tcl8.4/msgcat1.3/msgcat.tcl
[14:11:14] <jepler> tcl8.4: /usr/lib/tcl8.4/msgcat1.3/msgcat.tcl
[14:11:31] <jepler> this is the file that tcl should find when "package require msgcat" is invoked
[14:11:35] <cradek> jepler: well it's nice of me to try to help anyway
[14:11:41] <cradek> haha
[16:02:15] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/scope_disp.c: these braces make the code be interpreted as it was intended
[16:41:50] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[17:53:09] <JymmmEMC> When breaking out the DB25 to the drives, is twisted-pair good enough? Is that what most are doing in their own setup?
[18:00:01] <cradek> http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?Item=11-3190
[18:01:51] <Jymmm> ds2 I found a punch press for you... FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
[18:02:02] <Jymmm> it's already CNC too!!!!!!!!!!11
[18:03:26] <Jymmm> ds2: You do have *two* 10,000 fork lifts to move it right? It weights 34,000 LBS and takes up about 500 SQFT
[18:53:56] <robin_sz> meep?
[18:54:26] <robin_sz> Jymmm, we sold our last punch press, similar size and weight,, for £300 on eBay :)
[18:55:11] <robin_sz> as for the connection from the PC to the drives ...
[18:55:25] <robin_sz> how long is the connection, less than 12"?
[18:56:00] <robin_sz> if over that, use screened cable, earth the screen ONLY at the PC end. Got that, NOT at the drive end as well.
[18:56:35] <robin_sz> and the screen is a screen, not 0V to use to drive other stuff with, just a protective screen
[18:56:58] <robin_sz> hopefully, your drives have opto-isolated inputs.
[18:58:37] <robin_sz> steal a bit of 5V or 12V from the PC psu (say from a disc drive connector) send it down one half of a twisted pair, through the opto isolatro LED, back down the other half tof the same twisted pair, into the DB25 pin (where it gets sunk to ground by the drive chip)
[18:58:48] <robin_sz> there
[18:58:51] <robin_sz> done.
[20:12:28] <Unition> http://www.cleanbeach.com/rockpicker.htm
[20:14:13] <JymmmEMC> robin_sz: No, I meant all from within the drive/ps chassis. the DB25 to the drives < 18"
[20:15:03] <JymmmEMC> From the chassis to the motors I have shielded cable
[20:16:00] <robin_sz> twisted pairs should be OK, keep them away from the motor side wiring though
[20:16:23] <robin_sz> and try not to lay them all side by side if they aint screened
[20:16:39] <robin_sz> 18" is proably as far as you want to go unscreened
[20:16:46] <skunkworks> screened=shielded?
[20:17:06] <JymmmEMC> k
[20:17:33] <robin_sz> yeah
[20:17:41] <robin_sz> are the drives opto isolated?
[20:18:11] <JymmmEMC> robin_sz: probably, gotta find em
[20:19:58] <JymmmEMC> pros/cons? http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=4103
[20:21:28] <robin_sz> pro/con versus what?
[20:21:47] <JymmmEMC> It in itself as a combo bench sander
[20:22:39] <robin_sz> * robin_sz shrugs
[20:23:13] <JymmmEMC> if you needed a sander, would this be somethign you would consider
[20:23:40] <JymmmEMC> I'm not familure with JEY at all.
[20:23:43] <JymmmEMC> JET
[20:24:29] <JymmmEMC> Quality? Crap? Not much better than sears/home Depot/HF? etc
[20:25:04] <SWPadnos> JET woodworking tools are generally regarded as good
[20:25:15] <skunkworks> we have a jet bandsaw we like
[20:25:21] <SWPadnos> but they may be like Sony - with a crap line and a pro line that may as well be made on differnt planets
[20:26:47] <JymmmEMC> Ah
[20:28:11] <Unition> those belt sanders are good for steel and alu
[20:28:21] <Unition> best on wood
[20:34:53] <anonimasu> ^_^
[20:35:12] <robin_sz> if I needed a sander, I'd employ one
[20:35:38] <robin_sz> it sounds like the sort fo task its best for other people to do.
[20:49:58] <ds2> Hmmmm
[20:50:10] <ds2> does the press come with a little warehouse to go around?
[20:53:27] <robin_sz> seen les?
[20:53:35] <anonimasu> no
[20:53:38] <anonimasu> he's been missing
[20:54:18] <JymmmEMC> ds2: Yes, right between your living room wall and the wall to you bedroom.
[21:03:17] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[21:19:43] <ds2> I don't know about your place but i ain't got no 500sq feet :)
[21:20:16] <JymmmEMC> ds2: sure you do, you don't need to park your car or sleep on a comfy bed.
[21:20:37] <ds2> that might be called infringing on neighbor's property
[21:20:51] <JymmmEMC> they won't mind, just ask them you'll see
[21:20:56] <robin_sz> ds2, yeah, I only have 5000 sq feet, just arranging rental on another 7500 :)
[21:26:51] <ds2> and if they do, just turn on the press? ;)
[21:28:26] <JymmmEMC> feeding in the neighbors first (of course)
[21:37:47] <robin_sz> our last punch press was *fairly* huge ... had a big cast iron C frame
[21:38:06] <robin_sz> like 5 tonnes
[21:39:12] <robin_sz> oodles
[23:37:16] <JymmmEMC> whats 16psi in metric?
[23:43:32] <skunkworks> 1.103 bar
[23:43:57] <jepler> JymmmEMC: use the unix command "units" to find out. Run it, then type "16psi" "?", and it will show you a list of things it can convert to, including bar, pascal, mmHg, and more
[23:50:43] <JymmmEMC> 1.1 is what i was looking for, just didnt know the units. ty