#emc | Logs for 2007-05-08

[00:53:58] <ohiopctechDOTcom> did you splice single frames of hardcore porn into the reels like they did in fight club?
[00:57:20] <toastydeath> fffffff
[01:14:07] <ohiopctechDOTcom> 6 feet of 1"-5 & 6 feet of 3/4-6 acme threaded rod ordered for the x/y on the 24" x 48" cnc router project
[01:14:15] <ohiopctechDOTcom> woohoo!
[01:15:51] <toastydeath> oh, a router?
[01:16:03] <toastydeath> cool.
[01:16:16] <ohiopctechDOTcom> yeah.. pretty much. until i tweak the design and then i plan on reproducing the fram out of steel
[01:16:22] <ohiopctechDOTcom> frame*
[01:16:37] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i had enough of mini mill world :)
[01:16:50] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i got the bas for it dropped off today
[01:16:53] <ohiopctechDOTcom> base*
[01:17:01] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it's sitting in the garage lookin pretty
[01:17:08] <ohiopctechDOTcom> table comes ina few days
[01:17:33] <ohiopctechDOTcom> then i gotta mount rails and the threaded rod on the base for x.. and start working on the gantry
[01:17:34] <toastydeath> lol
[01:17:48] <toastydeath> why not buy a used series II bridgeport?
[01:17:59] <ohiopctechDOTcom> well.. i'm looking for one
[01:18:17] <ohiopctechDOTcom> but i still would liek to have the cnc router
[01:18:40] <ohiopctechDOTcom> they guy building me the frame works at a shop, he says they spent 30,000 on athier cnc router
[01:18:57] <ohiopctechDOTcom> he mention to his boss what i was doing here.. and he want's to chat ;)
[01:19:18] <ohiopctechDOTcom> sounds like a conversation where i make some money...
[01:19:27] <toastydeath> lolll
[01:20:51] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i'm glad i finally got off my a$$ and built that mini mill... if it wasn't for emc i would have never tried
[01:21:10] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it's opened up a lot of opprotunities for me here in dayton since people have been talking about it
[01:21:52] <toastydeath> cool.
[01:23:47] <toastydeath> do they really not use their router
[01:24:13] <ohiopctechDOTcom> they use it for making bar rails and such..
[01:24:20] <ohiopctechDOTcom> mouldings for cabinets
[01:24:24] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it's a cabinet shop
[01:24:39] <toastydeath> i see
[01:25:08] <ohiopctechDOTcom> they were looking for a programmer for it a while back.. dude said if he knew i was capable of it i woulda had a sweet job payin like 20 bones an hr
[01:25:33] <ohiopctechDOTcom> but.. nobody really knew what i did at work thill i bought this project home...
[01:25:41] <ohiopctechDOTcom> until*
[01:25:57] <toastydeath> you're a cnc programmer at work?
[01:26:13] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i was...
[01:26:23] <ohiopctechDOTcom> now i am at a different shop doing manual stuff
[01:26:26] <ohiopctechDOTcom> and cad*
[01:26:27] <toastydeath> cool
[01:27:18] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i built the mini mill to keep up on my cnc skills
[01:27:24] <ohiopctechDOTcom> in case i ever need to go back into it
[01:27:38] <ohiopctechDOTcom> but then... i got the hombrew bug
[01:36:44] <ohiopctechDOTcom> one thing i am stumped on...
[01:36:53] <ohiopctechDOTcom> what to use for the rails of the x axis
[01:37:12] <toastydeath> scraped box ways
[01:37:13] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it's gotta be at least 52" long and straight
[01:37:16] <toastydeath> what else
[01:37:26] <ohiopctechDOTcom> and i need 2 of them
[01:37:32] <toastydeath> TWO scraped box ways
[01:37:35] <ohiopctechDOTcom> lol..
[01:37:50] <ohiopctechDOTcom> what to start from for the scraping though...
[01:37:57] <toastydeath> simple
[01:38:01] <ohiopctechDOTcom> tubing?
[01:38:08] <toastydeath> square tubes, angle iron
[01:38:09] <toastydeath> anything
[01:38:09] <ohiopctechDOTcom> raw bar stock?
[01:38:18] <toastydeath> the more mass the more rigid
[01:38:27] <toastydeath> cast iron is the best
[01:38:29] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i was considering angle iron
[01:38:31] <toastydeath> but steel will work too
[01:38:58] <ds2> old car frame
[01:39:03] <ohiopctechDOTcom> and.. someone gave me the idea of fence posts
[01:39:06] <toastydeath> OLD BUS FRAME
[01:39:11] <ohiopctechDOTcom> but i don't know how straight they would be
[01:39:16] <ohiopctechDOTcom> or sturdy really
[01:39:58] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i peeked at my bedfram this morning as i was getting up. it's iron angle and it's plenty of material
[01:40:14] <toastydeath> are you like, planning on cutting anything even remotely accurately
[01:40:45] <toastydeath> you need mass, man
[01:40:46] <ohiopctechDOTcom> well for the most part i was thinking if i can do .010 that it would be amazing
[01:40:50] <toastydeath> oh
[01:40:58] <toastydeath> you might be able to swing that
[01:40:58] <ohiopctechDOTcom> if i did .005 i would sh1t myself
[01:41:09] <toastydeath> well like
[01:41:15] <toastydeath> not so much accuracy
[01:41:23] <toastydeath> i mean like, divots and stuff in the material
[01:41:26] <toastydeath> the wavyness in the cut
[01:41:40] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i figure i am going to be cutting wood... carpenters go by 1/6th at the most really
[01:41:53] <ohiopctechDOTcom> tolerances*
[01:42:33] <ohiopctechDOTcom> yeah if all my part's edges are within .010 -.015" of the programmed lines
[01:42:43] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i'm going to be happy
[01:43:06] <toastydeath> no no
[01:43:08] <toastydeath> not edge tolerance
[01:43:18] <toastydeath> like, your edges are not going to be straight
[01:43:27] <toastydeath> the cutter is going to wander.
[01:43:36] <ohiopctechDOTcom> of course...
[01:43:40] <toastydeath> k
[01:43:49] <toastydeath> i suppose lapping it some
[01:43:59] <toastydeath> with like a power lap
[01:44:01] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i know i need to spend 30 grand to do anything worth selling to honda
[01:44:04] <toastydeath> might do some stuff
[01:44:07] <ohiopctechDOTcom> at least*
[01:44:24] <toastydeath> well like, i'm trying to think of ways
[01:44:28] <toastydeath> to get this thing accurate
[01:44:36] <ohiopctechDOTcom> but they don't buy stuff from a cnc router unless it's a front door sign
[01:44:43] <ohiopctechDOTcom> cnc wood router*
[01:44:58] <ds2> wonder if a round way is easier to deal with... start with somethinglike a 6ft peice of drill rod
[01:45:02] <toastydeath> can you use heavy gauge steel square tube
[01:45:05] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ok.. one idea i had was inverted aluminum extruded angle
[01:45:14] <ohiopctechDOTcom> and some skate bearings
[01:45:15] <toastydeath> round ways don't give you the rigidty
[01:45:23] <toastydeath> BUT
[01:45:34] <toastydeath> some smaller machines have used round ways in the past
[01:45:36] <ohiopctechDOTcom> the skate bearings would ride on the two angles ad 90 degrees
[01:45:38] <toastydeath> like, a pair of 4" round
[01:45:46] <toastydeath> stay away from bearings
[01:45:56] <ds2> just throw in a small crane in the order and you'll be set
[01:46:15] <toastydeath> well i guess bearings might work in this particular case
[01:46:28] <ohiopctechDOTcom> the skate bearings are tight
[01:46:34] <toastydeath> no it's not that
[01:46:43] <toastydeath> the interface between the rolling bearing and the way
[01:46:45] <toastydeath> is horrible
[01:46:52] <toastydeath> for both accuracy and rigidity
[01:47:17] <ohiopctechDOTcom> picture an upsidedown v with bearings riding along each surface.. 90 degrees with all the force going down
[01:47:26] <ohiopctechDOTcom> *one of those on either side
[01:47:55] <toastydeath> how you position the bearings isn't the problem
[01:48:01] <toastydeath> it's that you have this teeny tiny contact surface
[01:48:12] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ok, i can see that
[01:49:08] <toastydeath> machine tools still use plain bearing surfaces
[01:49:14] <toastydeath> no rollers or any moving parts
[01:49:20] <ohiopctechDOTcom> like the ways on a bridgeport
[01:49:29] <toastydeath> some specialized machine tools use a roller way bearing
[01:49:34] <toastydeath> that is ultra ultra expensive
[01:50:04] <toastydeath> and most of those have hybrid plain/roller things going on
[01:50:09] <toastydeath> yes, like a bridgeport
[01:50:12] <ohiopctechDOTcom> the planer.. from 1913, that we have at work, it uses a rack n pinion gear to move the table
[01:50:22] <ohiopctechDOTcom> and it is suprisingly smooth
[01:50:27] <toastydeath> still has plain bearings
[01:50:31] <toastydeath> V ways
[01:50:33] <ohiopctechDOTcom> oh it does
[01:50:42] <ohiopctechDOTcom> they are v grooves on either side
[01:50:51] <toastydeath> that takes all the force
[01:50:58] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i left that part out when i jsut pictured it in my head
[01:51:16] <toastydeath> lol
[01:51:31] <toastydeath> the rack and pinion is only there to propel the table, it's not accurate
[01:52:03] <ohiopctechDOTcom> so if i was going to do angle and the bearings.. i could put them on the inside of the angle instead of outside
[01:52:13] <toastydeath> doesn't matter where you put them
[01:53:04] <toastydeath> inverted vee ways work just as well as external
[01:53:24] <toastydeath> personally I would use a pair of cast iron tubes
[01:53:29] <toastydeath> file them down a bit
[01:53:32] <toastydeath> then scrape them in
[01:53:43] <toastydeath> with the carrages to match
[01:54:12] <toastydeath> I'd probably make a frame out of wood and pour concrete into it
[01:54:33] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i scoped out the cast iron at lowes, it is semi-straight... i even rolled it on the floor
[01:54:49] <toastydeath> can't scrape/file round cast iron
[01:54:58] <toastydeath> only tubes
[01:55:01] <toastydeath> square tubes
[01:55:06] <ohiopctechDOTcom> oh
[01:55:13] <toastydeath> what i'm suggesting
[01:55:16] <toastydeath> is that for each "way"
[01:55:20] <toastydeath> you use two parallel square tubes
[01:55:24] <toastydeath> 4" x 4"
[01:55:36] <toastydeath> and pour a base of concrete for it
[01:55:45] <toastydeath> let it settle for a month
[01:55:47] <toastydeath> or whatever
[01:55:51] <toastydeath> go back and start scraping it in
[01:56:11] <ohiopctechDOTcom> intresting...
[01:56:52] <toastydeath> that way you get very serious mass
[01:57:11] <toastydeath> and concrete is an excellent damping material
[01:57:20] <toastydeath> the only reason they don't use it in modern stuff is because it settles
[01:57:25] <toastydeath> over time
[01:57:41] <ohiopctechDOTcom> yeah it tis, but i can't move that around in my garage without a forklift and i don't have anywhere to park one
[01:58:10] <toastydeath> lol
[01:58:21] <toastydeath> you are planning on a 24x48 router?
[01:58:25] <toastydeath> and you want it to be light?
[01:58:51] <ohiopctechDOTcom> not light.. but not heavy as a truck
[01:59:08] <toastydeath> you're going to be talking over 2000 lbs for a solid router of that size
[01:59:09] <toastydeath> well over
[01:59:35] <ohiopctechDOTcom> so far the base is made like a cabinet in a million dollar house.. out of 1" thick laminated plywood
[01:59:51] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it's heavy on it's own and it doesn't wobble
[01:59:57] <toastydeath> cabinets in million dollar houses don't cut anything
[02:00:07] <ohiopctechDOTcom> you got me there
[02:00:14] <toastydeath> we have a tiny router at school the students built
[02:00:18] <ohiopctechDOTcom> the base is 36x52
[02:00:20] <toastydeath> and even that thing is very very rigid
[02:00:30] <toastydeath> and very heavy
[02:00:55] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i plan on having a full 24 x 48 cutting area.. all the way to the edges
[02:01:12] <ohiopctechDOTcom> the design in my head anyways.. and we have done some sketches
[02:01:41] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i jsut haven't came up with a X way idea i thought would stick
[02:01:41] <toastydeath> lol
[02:01:49] <ohiopctechDOTcom> other than your box ways idea
[02:01:52] <toastydeath> if your base is plywood
[02:01:55] <toastydeath> then just use angle iron
[02:01:56] <ohiopctechDOTcom> that may be the trick
[02:02:38] <toastydeath> do you have a surface plate
[02:02:48] <ohiopctechDOTcom> yeah.. a tiny one
[02:02:53] <toastydeath> k
[02:03:50] <ohiopctechDOTcom> and a fancy indicator and stand..
[02:04:02] <toastydeath> uh
[02:04:05] <toastydeath> a fancy indicator?
[02:04:20] <ohiopctechDOTcom> yo know.. "jewled" as opposed to not
[02:04:23] <toastydeath> lol
[02:04:29] <toastydeath> anyway if you get engineering blue
[02:04:35] <toastydeath> NOT dykem/marking blue
[02:04:43] <toastydeath> spread it on the surface plate
[02:04:54] <toastydeath> then drop your way on the plate
[02:04:55] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i found that in enco the other day
[02:04:58] <toastydeath> support the overhang
[02:05:10] <toastydeath> let it sit under its own gravity
[02:05:12] <ohiopctechDOTcom> persian blue or something?
[02:05:16] <toastydeath> prussian
[02:05:17] <toastydeath> yeah
[02:05:18] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ahh yeah
[02:05:30] <toastydeath> but when you pull it off the high spots will be blue.
[02:05:31] <toastydeath> file those off.
[02:05:43] <toastydeath> then, once it starts to get kind of flat you'd have to switch to a scraper.
[02:05:46] <ohiopctechDOTcom> low spots nlue?
[02:05:52] <toastydeath> high spots blue
[02:05:57] <toastydeath> low spots not blue
[02:06:08] <ohiopctechDOTcom> oh because the ink is on th plate
[02:06:51] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i read a website about scraping once
[02:07:03] <ohiopctechDOTcom> but i never needed to do it
[02:08:06] <toastydeath> there's a roaming class
[02:08:09] <toastydeath> that I want to attend
[02:08:15] <toastydeath> teaches scraping
[02:08:25] <toastydeath> just hasn't wound up in my area yet
[02:08:36] <ohiopctechDOTcom> we have an old carbide tipped thing i assume is a scraper at the shop
[02:08:45] <toastydeath> about 20" long?
[02:08:48] <ohiopctechDOTcom> yup
[02:08:52] <toastydeath> yep
[02:09:01] <toastydeath> has what looks like a blunt end on it?
[02:09:06] <toastydeath> slight radius?
[02:09:14] <toastydeath> if so, yep!
[02:09:23] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it's sorta half moon shaped and sharp
[02:09:35] <toastydeath> lol
[02:09:40] <ohiopctechDOTcom> the kid was using it to clean out the tslots and i took it from him
[02:09:48] <toastydeath> ahahahaha yeah
[02:09:52] <toastydeath> those things cost like 90 bucks
[02:09:58] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i hid it in a cabinet
[02:10:41] <ohiopctechDOTcom> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160111539378&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:12 <- small lathe
[02:10:51] <ohiopctechDOTcom> *it's ending soon
[02:11:07] <toastydeath> aw cute
[02:11:08] <ohiopctechDOTcom> oh ended
[02:11:16] <ohiopctechDOTcom> damn i always chek my email too late
[02:11:23] <toastydeath> i'm not a big fan of the small gear
[02:11:46] <ohiopctechDOTcom> the smal gear can help you build big gear...
[02:11:57] <toastydeath> lol not particularly
[02:12:25] <ohiopctechDOTcom> machines replicating themselves in a larger scale around the world till we have monster trucks n stuff?
[02:12:45] <ohiopctechDOTcom> or huge mining dump trucks...
[02:12:48] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ;)
[02:12:56] <toastydeath> actually, no
[02:13:09] <toastydeath> larger mills and lathes were originally hand worked
[02:13:12] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i know i am being silly
[02:13:15] <toastydeath> lol
[02:13:17] <toastydeath> k!
[02:13:23] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i have seen the lathes and mills they use to build stuff like that
[02:13:33] <toastydeath> roll lathes
[02:13:40] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i once laid eyes upon a 35 foot bed lathe
[02:13:52] <ohiopctechDOTcom> and there is a 3 story mill at this shop i visit
[02:14:30] <ohiopctechDOTcom> presses sitting 10 feet in the floor because they are so tall...
[02:14:39] <toastydeath> yeh
[02:15:46] <ohiopctechDOTcom> we actually had some work done by a place that has a mill that the operator rides on the head of the machine in a basket
[02:19:44] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ima going to take some pics of the machine base and crash.. later folks!
[02:34:55] <ohiopctechDOTcom> http://www.industriamercato.it/eng/gantry-type-milling-machine/fresatrice-a-portale_multinorma_102037.html#
[03:28:20] <Jymmmm> yo
[03:30:43] <Chris_sub_1> yoyo
[03:30:54] <ohiopctechDOTcom> oh yo!
[03:32:03] <SWPadnos> oh yoko!
[03:33:02] <Jymmmm> Oh John!
[03:33:04] <Chris_sub_1> Q: Looking in the list archives & the docs, I didn't (yet) find any details about a preferred way to interface EMC2 to a spindle motor VFD. I am using an M5I20. Suggestions?
[03:33:28] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: is it possible to paralle two switching PS?
[03:33:45] <SWPadnos> are you using 4 servo axes, or can you use the last "DAC" as a VFD output?
[03:34:03] <Chris_sub_1> Unless they are designed for load sharing, generally not a good plan (IIRC).
[03:34:30] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, sure, as long as they're the same output voltage and you have good sized output caps on them (I think)
[03:35:03] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: I was planning on adding an extranl cap between teh power source and the drives
[03:35:14] <SWPadnos> big
[03:35:32] <Jymmmm> ok hw big 1F ?!
[03:35:34] <Jymmmm> how
[03:35:37] <Chris_sub_1> I would like to keep the 4th axis available for, well, a 4th axis. :)
[03:35:58] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, pretty big. I don't know exactly
[03:36:10] <eric_u> just use the power supplies on different axes and share grounds
[03:36:19] <SWPadnos> Chris_sub_1, well, a spindle is pretty slow, you could just use software PWM on an unused output pin
[03:36:56] <Jymmmm> eric_u: share grounds??? Isn't that the problem to begin with?
[03:37:07] <eric_u> no, it's fine
[03:37:13] <eric_u> they are floating anyway
[03:37:13] <ohiopctechDOTcom> you have to take the ground off of one of the ps'
[03:37:26] <ohiopctechDOTcom> remove the ground from the case anywhere it may be touching
[03:37:38] <ohiopctechDOTcom> if they are ATX type***
[03:37:46] <SWPadnos> a bench supply will haqve floating grounds. don't expect a PC supply to
[03:37:49] <Jymmmm> no not PC PS
[03:37:57] <eric_u> why would you want to do that?
[03:37:58] <Jymmmm> but it is a switching PS
[03:38:27] <petev> jymmmm, it depends on the swither design
[03:38:36] <petev> in general you can't just parallel them
[03:38:40] <eric_u> if there is an isolation stage, then you don't have to share grounds
[03:38:54] <eric_u> he can just parallel them by using them for different drives
[03:39:02] <petev> why not just use them for separate axis?
[03:39:04] <eric_u> he's got 3 loads and 2 supplies
[03:39:25] <eric_u> 1 supply will power 2 of the loads, problem solved without driving the supply crazy
[03:39:27] <petev> eric_u, well that is not paralleling them if the outputs are not connected together
[03:39:55] <ds2> what about putting a diode and a low value resistor in series at each PS and then parallel the output of that?
[03:39:59] <eric_u> join with me in calling for sanity!
[03:40:34] <petev> ds2, you will not get good load sharing like that unless all components are matched
[03:40:38] <eric_u> in fact, one of the supplies will probably drive all three loads by itself
[03:41:20] <eric_u> but there is no reason not to join grounds together, they are probably floating anyway
[03:41:47] <eric_u> I've found a lot of those switchers are floating at 90v, which is annoying
[03:43:18] <ohiopctechDOTcom> what's sanity?
[03:43:40] <eric_u> sanity is something you'll never miss
[03:44:10] <eric_u> at least that's what my mom used to tell me
[03:44:38] <ohiopctechDOTcom> oh my... they say there is pills for the condition you describe
[03:44:40] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ;)
[03:45:46] <Chris_sub_1> How can pills help with load sharing? IRC is so confusing.
[03:47:44] <ohiopctechDOTcom> hey i found a decent webcam that i can focus... i can maybe do a worthwhile cnc vid now!
[03:48:04] <ohiopctechDOTcom> but no sound... everyone knows what a dremel sounds like right?
[04:07:20] <eric_u> not sure, hum a few bars
[04:20:45] <ohiopctechDOTcom> hmmmmmmmmmmm hmmmmm hmmmmmmmmm hmm
[04:20:53] <Chris_sub_1> http://www.podshow.com/music/?artist_id=6521
[04:22:46] <ohiopctechDOTcom> this webcam is almost close to not taking crappy videos of the cnc. now that i have one that i can focus
[04:27:33] <ohiopctechDOTcom> wow
[04:38:27] <ohiopctechDOTcom> dremel had me till he started signing
[04:38:32] <ohiopctechDOTcom> singing8
[04:39:55] <ohiopctechDOTcom> *if that's anyone in this room i apologize...
[04:39:58] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ;)
[11:20:50] <martin_lundstrom> Hello everyone
[11:21:16] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: are you around? any news?
[11:38:25] <alex_joni> anonimasu: around?
[11:40:12] <anonimasu> yes
[11:48:15] <anonimasu> alex_joni: wake up?
[11:50:44] <Dallur> martin_lundstrom: I'm kinda here, sorry about yesterday, I wanted to work on emc but I had to work, linux box at a customers site went belly up and they couldn't fix it
[11:55:15] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: Come on you dont have to excuse yourself
[11:56:12] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: At least you have a paid job
[11:56:41] <Dallur> Martin_Lundstrom: yeah, but it gets a bit hectic at times :)
[11:56:58] <Dallur> Martin_Lundstrom: So I don't have much of a life ;)
[11:57:39] <martin_lundstrom> If anyone have a tip for a small job, please let me know. (I have a registred company, so I can send invoice)
[11:59:45] <anonimasu> :)
[12:00:13] <martin_lundstrom> Hello annonimasu
[12:00:34] <martin_lundstrom> How did your plasma table work out?
[12:00:44] <anonimasu> great
[12:00:48] <martin_lundstrom> cool
[12:00:53] <anonimasu> though the plasma were too puny to cut what I needed to cut
[12:01:02] <anonimasu> so I run oxy-acetylene now.
[12:01:10] <martin_lundstrom> ok
[12:06:03] <martin_lundstrom> anonimasu: do you have any pictures?
[12:06:57] <anonimasu> no
[12:08:07] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: So do I deare to ask you when you are going to make a cvs check in, maybe just make a new dir, so I can compile your still inofficial verion for test?
[12:08:24] <Dallur> martin_lundstrom: the plan is to do it tonight
[12:08:36] <martin_lundstrom> cool
[12:08:54] <Dallur> martin_lundstrom: as long as none of my customers mess up their servers
[12:09:08] <anonimasu> :)
[12:09:50] <alex_joni> anonimasu: sorry.. was away
[12:09:58] <alex_joni> just got an info for alibre prof. for half the price ;)
[12:10:03] <alex_joni> thought you might be interested
[12:10:27] <alex_joni> http://sdm3.rm04.net/servlet/MailView?ms=ODUzNjgyS0&r=Njc2OTU5MTM3MgS2&j=Mjc5MTQ4NjAS1&mt=1
[12:15:32] <jepler> morning all
[12:17:13] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I'm way too busy to look into it
[12:17:18] <anonimasu> alex_joni: they need to fix their snap before I buy it ;)
[12:21:47] <alex_joni> ha
[12:22:04] <alex_joni> anonimasu: kinda same here.. but I knew you were interested
[12:22:11] <anonimasu> yep :)
[12:22:27] <anonimasu> alex_joni: maybe we should drop them a mail about it..
[12:22:46] <anonimasu> alex_joni: by chance it might even get there in a few versions ;)
[12:22:57] <anonimasu> I dont think we are the only ones with this stuff in mind..
[12:24:05] <alex_joni> anonimasu: I didn't like their 2D stuff
[12:24:14] <alex_joni> lots of better alternatives
[12:25:21] <anonimasu> yep
[12:25:33] <anonimasu> though their snap is the real killer for me
[12:46:58] <alex_joni> heh.. got a new spot welding machine
[14:21:28] <xemet> Hi
[14:22:26] <xemet> question: I've apt360 installed, if I type the command: apt360 < example.apt | cat example.EMC1.tap I can see the gcode output generated by apt in the terminal
[14:23:06] <xemet> is there a way to use the axis filter feature in order to open an apt file and make Axis get the gcode in the output file?
[14:23:25] <xemet> could I do a script in paython for example that runs a command from command line?
[14:23:47] <cradek> AXIS expects filters that take the input filename on the command line, and generate gcode on stdout
[14:23:54] <cradek> if apt360 does that, it will work directly as a filter
[14:24:08] <xemet> no, apt generates a file that contains the gcode
[14:24:38] <cradek> that's too bad, then I think you'll have to make a script that cats the generated file
[14:24:44] <xemet> if I run the command: apt360 < example.apt
[14:24:54] <xemet> I cannot see the gcode
[14:25:05] <xemet> is difficult to do a script like that?
[14:25:09] <cradek> no
[14:25:17] <cradek> what file does it generate?
[14:25:46] <xemet> if I run apt360 < example.apt, it generates a file example.EMC1.tap
[14:25:59] <jepler> how does apt360 determine the output filename?
[14:26:04] <cradek> how does it know the file is named example?
[14:26:07] <xemet> form the input
[14:26:22] <xemet> example.apt -> example.EMC1.tap
[14:26:26] <cradek> I think you might be mistaken about how it's run then
[14:26:41] <cradek> if it's on stdin (<) it doesn't know the filename
[14:28:24] <xemet> I had run that command this morning: apt360 < example.apt | cat example.EMC1.tap and I've seen the gcode in the terminal...I don't know much about the command I used, I was tolded to use it...
[14:28:42] <xemet> a person told me "use this command" and it worked...
[14:29:05] <cradek> you typed it with the | just like that?
[14:29:10] <xemet> yes
[14:29:32] <xemet> he called it "pipe" if I remember...
[14:29:38] <jepler> it is very surprising that your command works
[14:29:40] <cradek> ok, that command doesn't make a lot of sense - we need more information on how apt360 is run
[14:29:47] <jepler> it is not surprising that you got bad advice online
[14:30:07] <jepler> if the file "example.EMC1.tap" already existed when you issued that command (from a prior run of apt360) then it makes a little more sense
[14:30:38] <xemet> well, the problem is that I don't have apt installed here so I cannot try in this moment
[14:30:58] <xemet> but I can take a look in the wiki, there is a page on the apt
[14:32:57] <cradek> well the answer to your question is yes - you should be able to run apt360 as an AXIS filter
[14:34:17] <xemet> but it gives no gcode output...it generates a file...I don't know how he knows the output filename, but it generates a file.tap, I think it uses a postprocessor for EMC and generates that file
[14:38:22] <xemet> in the wiki it does not use the "<"...just apt /apt360/examples/squareTJP-1.apt
[14:38:43] <xemet> andt the output is squareTJP-1.tap
[14:38:53] <cradek> that makes much more sense
[14:39:44] <xemet> supposing it is the correct way (maybe there was a file previously created with the same name so the command worked), how con I make a python script that executes a command from the command line?
[14:40:18] <jepler> http://pastebin.ca/477188
[14:41:09] <jepler> this shell script will copy the given file to a temporary location and run apt360 on it. If apt360 is successful, it "cat"s the contents of the output file. When it's done it removes the temporary files.
[14:41:47] <cradek> jepler: exit $?
[14:42:00] <cradek> ?
[14:42:14] <jepler> won't bash exit with the exit code of the last command (apt360 && cat) ?
[14:42:16] <xemet> many many thanks, I will try it
[14:42:25] <cradek> jepler: hm I don't know
[14:42:38] <jepler> sh -c 'false&&true'; echo $?
[14:42:38] <jepler> 1
[14:42:47] <cradek> doh
[14:43:05] <cradek> ok you'd think I'd know that
[14:43:47] <xemet> and...I name this scripts for example apt-reader.sh and in the Filter section of the .ini add that .apt files should be opened with that script, right?
[14:44:02] <cradek> yes
[14:44:58] <xemet> ok, I will try
[14:45:01] <jepler> you would also need to make the script executable (chmod +x apt-reader.sh) and place it in a directory on your $PATH or in the emc bin directory
[14:45:14] <xemet> ok
[14:56:58] <xemet> second question
[14:57:28] <skunkworks> hmmm.. I have a 1ghz dual processor machine I can play with :)
[14:57:42] <xemet> I would like to build I little hal system I have to use at university...simple things, but I would like to give it a little graphical interface using pyVCP
[14:58:19] <xemet> I would likt to use it stand-alone without EMC2, I've seen the dro example in the wiki
[14:58:52] <xemet> it says taht the hal command to launch pyVCP is: loadusr -Wn fred pyvcp -c fred pyvcp-dro.xml
[14:59:01] <xemet> what's "fred"?
[15:01:16] <cradek> man halcmd, look for loadusr
[15:01:26] <jepler> fred is the name to give the component .. the example might be better if it used a more meaningful name, such as "dro"
[15:01:43] <jepler> (and I think it is also the initial part of the HAL pin names)
[15:02:16] <jepler> "loadusr -Wn <name>" means "wait for the component to become ready; it is called <name>". "pyvcp -c <name>" means "use <name> for the component name and pin name prefix"
[15:02:45] <xemet> aaah, ok, so it creates a new hal components that has all the pins correponding to the widgets
[15:03:07] <ohiopctechDOTcom> anyone ever heard of featurecam? i found a demo of it in my garage that i never opened... they rep for dayton was tryin to sell it to me but i didn't feel like learning a whole other cam prog.
[15:03:22] <ohiopctechDOTcom> just wondered if anyone used it before*
[15:03:24] <xemet> I used feature cam one day....
[15:03:30] <cradek> featurecam sounds like progressquest
[15:03:50] <xemet> it worked...but after I switched to edge cam and I've not used it anymore
[15:04:09] <ohiopctechDOTcom> they got a whole fancy brochure and real cd's.. they must be making some money
[15:04:15] <xemet> oh see, I've it still installed in mt PC
[15:04:37] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i wonder if the demo will let me save files?
[15:04:43] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i may just check it out
[15:05:03] <xemet> I don't know...I used the complete version
[15:05:21] <xemet> maybe you cannot generate the gcode...so the demo is completely useless...
[15:05:40] <ohiopctechDOTcom> *i'll check into it someday...
[15:05:51] <xemet> in the students version of edgecam you cannot generate the gcode
[15:06:30] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i found this one demo of a program, it wouldn't let you save the g-code you created but you could copy and paste it to a text file.. lol... ;)
[15:07:10] <ohiopctechDOTcom> then in the new version of it.. they had the copy n paste fixed.. it was some sort of jpg to cnc prog
[15:07:42] <xemet> ahah
[15:10:19] <xemet> ah, third question...I'm remembering all the questions... :) I've read that modal codes M101-M199 are user defined codes...
[15:10:28] <xemet> but how to define them??
[15:11:07] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i've not came across that info yet either
[15:11:18] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i think it's up to whoever is writing the control software?
[15:11:49] <xemet> I've for example a fourth relè (like the spinlde, flood and mist), how could I define two Mcodes to use that relè in my gcode?
[15:12:10] <ohiopctechDOTcom> map it to the pin with hal
[15:12:42] <xemet> so I should change the EMC source files in order to get this code recognized by interpreter
[15:13:05] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i'm not so sure about the details i have not gone that far into the config yet, you should def. get asecond opinion on that
[15:13:16] <skunkworks> Look at the m101 example in the nc_files directory
[15:13:18] <skunkworks> or here
[15:13:20] <skunkworks> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/nc_files/
[15:14:37] <xemet> well, I didn't understood nothing...:)
[15:14:50] <xemet> where do I put that script?
[15:15:14] <xemet> and how does EMC2 interpreter know that I've defined a new code?
[15:15:16] <ohiopctechDOTcom> sweet! you can have g-code run programs on your box.. say when the program is done it could load up the inspection database software
[15:16:25] <SWPadnos> xemet, emc doesn't know - it just tries to run an external program whenever it encounters M100-M199 codes
[15:16:42] <SWPadnos> Is uspect it gives you an error if the program isn't found
[15:16:46] <SWPadnos> I suspect ...
[15:17:03] <ohiopctechDOTcom> would you put the file named "m101" in the ini folder maybe?
[15:17:08] <ohiopctechDOTcom> or "m102" ?
[15:17:14] <ohiopctechDOTcom> or m199?
[15:17:25] <SWPadnos> I think it needs to be in the nc_files directory (as specified in the ini)
[15:17:31] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ah...
[15:17:35] <SWPadnos> and I think it needs to have a capital M
[15:17:39] <SWPadnos> M100
[15:17:48] <ohiopctechDOTcom> yeah linux is case sensitive
[15:17:48] <xemet> so let me understand....m101 is the name of the script...
[15:17:53] <SWPadnos> look in nc_files, and see what the sample M101 and M102 are :)
[15:17:56] <SWPadnos> yes
[15:18:19] <xemet> when the intepreter encounter M101 it search in the nc-files directory for a program named M101
[15:18:26] <SWPadnos> yep
[15:18:44] <xemet> ...now...what kind of program could it be? the example is a bash script
[15:18:50] <ohiopctechDOTcom> kinda like a sub-program
[15:18:52] <SWPadnos> anything that's executable
[15:18:53] <xemet> it could be any type of executable?
[15:18:55] <xemet> ok
[15:19:02] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it could even be more g-codes in the file
[15:19:09] <SWPadnos> yes, and it gets two numbers, from the P and Q words in the G-code
[15:19:13] <SWPadnos> ni, it can't
[15:19:24] <ohiopctechDOTcom> SWPadnos , no?
[15:19:25] <SWPadnos> the file is not interpreted by EMC, it's exec'ed by the system
[15:19:36] <ohiopctechDOTcom> oh.. gotchya
[15:19:39] <xemet> so if I want just to get a hal pin high with M101 and get it down with M102 (think of activating a relè) I've to wirte a script that does that
[15:19:43] <SWPadnos> and EMC doesn't even get any output from the program, it just does its thing, then EMC continues on
[15:19:50] <xemet> for example a python script that use hal library
[15:20:11] <SWPadnos> yes, and the script could be as simple as "halcmd sets my.sig.name off"
[15:20:36] <SWPadnos> with the appropriate #!/bin/nash at the top, of course
[15:20:39] <xemet> I can give halcmd commands with python?
[15:20:41] <ohiopctechDOTcom> there is already a pin for spindle on/off set-up in the default config i believe xemet, you should jsut need to cange that to your relay pin
[15:20:41] <SWPadnos> err - bash :)
[15:20:49] <SWPadnos> no, that would be a bash script
[15:21:12] <SWPadnos> ohiopctechDOTcom, that depends on whether the relay is connected to the spindle or not :)
[15:21:16] <xemet> ah ok...understood
[15:21:36] <xemet> so just I create a script that execute a halcmd command
[15:21:38] <ohiopctechDOTcom> SWPadnos, of course...
[15:21:39] <xemet> perfect
[15:22:41] <SWPadnos> in fact, the script could execute "halcmd -f <some_file.hal>", to do a lot of HAL stuff :)
[15:22:43] <xemet> now maybe it is the time to learn the bash language
[15:22:46] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:23:00] <ohiopctechDOTcom> you could set M101... to delete the g-code file after the program is complete.. like mission impossible. "this g-code will self destruct in 30 seconds..."
[15:23:10] <xemet> great
[15:23:36] <SWPadnos> remember that you don't get any feedback to EMC - I'm not sure that EMC even knows that the program executed successfully (ie, it could have had an error but EMC may not know)
[15:24:07] <ohiopctechDOTcom> is there a way to read message into emc from that script with a pipe maybe?
[15:24:54] <ohiopctechDOTcom> or.. you could jsut have the script pop opena terminal window so you can see what's going on?
[15:25:08] <SWPadnos> no
[15:25:25] <SWPadnos> you can have a terminal window, I think, but you can't pipe anything back to EMC
[15:25:49] <xemet> even if I don't know bash language....let me understand, I can just create a text file named M101 that has on the top #!/bin/bash and for example only one line halcmd -f example.hal ?
[15:26:04] <SWPadnos> as long as you chmod +x, yes
[15:26:06] <xemet> make it executable and put it in the nc_files directory and it will work?
[15:26:11] <xemet> ok
[15:26:20] <xemet> that's a very good thing :)
[15:26:32] <SWPadnos> look at the M101 and M102.c that are there already for examples
[15:26:56] <SWPadnos> they also show how to get the P and Q values
[15:28:05] <SWPadnos> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/nc_files/M101?rev=1.3
[15:28:09] <SWPadnos> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/nc_files/M102.c?rev=1.3
[15:28:21] <xemet> I'm more interested in doing hal things with Mcodes created by me...so for the moment the bash script with halcmd is all what I need
[15:29:25] <xemet> I've read the two examples they are good
[15:29:35] <SWPadnos> yep. simple and to the point :)
[15:29:42] <gene> Interesting, that part scan finally finished, and I was going to see if I could speed up the display update, which obviously lags the machine by over a second, and found some errors on the shell screen when it had stopped
[15:29:54] <SWPadnos> what kind of errors?
[15:30:31] <gene> something about
[15:30:36] <gene> * CMS Status = -1 (CMS_MISC_ERROR: A miscellaneous error occured.)
[15:30:36] <gene> * Recent errors repeated:
[15:30:36] <gene> SHMEM: Can't take semaphore
[15:30:36] <gene> * BufferLine: B emcStatus SHMEM localhost 10240 0 0 2 16 1002 TCP=5005 xdr
[15:30:37] <gene> * ProcessLine: P emc emcStatus LOCAL localhost W 0 1.0 0 0
[15:30:38] <gene> * error_type = 5 (NML_INTERNAL_CMS_ERROR)
[15:30:48] <gene> what does that tell me
[15:30:52] <gene> ??
[15:33:43] <gene> I need to leave for a bit, so email me, gene.heskett@verizon.net with your comments please.
[15:36:47] <SWPadnos> damfino
[15:42:38] <jepler> emc uses "shared memory" to communicate between certain parts of the program, including between the user interface and the part called "task". Programs can only read or modify one piece of information at a time, so for instance if you are updating the X, Y and Z coordinates of the machine from "task" at the same time as the user interface is reading the X, Y, and Z coordinates, you might have a situation where the user interface sees X1, Y0, Z0 if "task
[15:43:36] <jepler> the "semaphore" is the way that emc prevents this from happening. It is a way for the user interface and task to negotiate access to the shared memory, so that it only seen when it is in a consistent state (either X0, Y0, Z0 or X1, Y1, Z1)
[15:44:18] <jepler> in this case, one program (either task or user interface) waited for the semaphore too long. If this happens consistently, it can indicate a software bug (because one part of the program is not releasing the semaphore)
[15:45:11] <jepler> on the other hand, because they are not realtime processes, it is not guaranteed that the semaphore deadline will always be met, so it is possible for this error to be printed even if there is not a software bug.
[15:45:21] <jepler> in that case, emc would continue working properly
[15:45:39] <SWPadnos> damfyouknow :)
[15:46:07] <jepler> oh I love showing off how much I know :-P
[15:46:11] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:46:33] <SWPadnos> I could tell that it was a shared memory problem, but what it means (to the user), I have no idea
[15:47:02] <SWPadnos> now (thanks to you), I know that it either means there's a problem (bug) or it doesn't :)
[15:47:02] <jepler> Looks like one of my lines got cut off. It should have read: ... you might have a situation where the user interface sees X1, Y0, Z0 if "task" is in the process of updating the position from X0, Y0, Z0 to X1, Y1, Z1 (even though the machine was never actually "at" X1,Y0,Z0)
[15:47:02] <rayh> I used to, but then it got small enough folk had to look with a microscope.
[15:47:30] <SWPadnos> then you can tell them all about the right kind of microscope to use :)
[15:48:58] <rayh> That's about all that's left to tell.
[15:58:13] <zelva> cradek... you have right... with emc2 works great... now i have regular, with rtai3.5 for realtime and for emc2 :)
[15:58:55] <rayh> Nice work zelva.
[16:07:40] <alex_joni> is just a crazy number imho
[16:08:07] <gene> heh... I wonder if that may have had anything to do with the tail -f I had running on the output file?
[16:08:13] <zelva> i cant agree more :D
[16:09:00] <alex_joni> gene: no it shouldn't
[16:09:11] <alex_joni> gene: can you describe under what circustances you got that?
[16:09:16] <jepler> you mean the file that emc is writing probe data to? no, that would not be the cause.
[16:09:33] <zelva> ok now i have to burn DVD with that and try it :)
[16:09:39] <gene> Aat this point, thats what was left on the screen after I'd exited, 2.1.5
[16:10:20] <alex_joni> jepler: it's emcStatus.. so that's pretty widely used
[16:10:21] <jepler> note that by default "tail" waits 1 second before checking the file contents, so that would introduce an appearance of lag in showing probe points..
[16:10:36] <gene> Next, do we have a program that can visualize the data in the put file without needing a lot of massaging to do it?
[16:10:53] <gene> put s/b output
[16:11:40] <gene> that lag was about 300 probes at a time in practice
[16:12:01] <gene> file system granularity I'd assume, no biggie
[16:12:07] <jepler> yes that makes sense
[16:12:09] <alex_joni> 300 probe lag doesn't come from 1 second tail lag
[16:12:14] <alex_joni> but from flushing things to disk
[16:12:21] <gene> yippers
[16:13:37] <gene> The reason I asked about visualization is that one end of the piece has a just barely visible flexure and I accidently pushed on it once
[16:14:18] <jepler> I don't know of a program that is specifically for showing the probed points
[16:14:32] <skunkworks> gene: any pictures? :)
[16:14:40] <gene> So I need to know if I have to go through it logitudinally and adjust the z values a thou or so.
[16:14:57] <gene> Not yet, of the probe you meam?
[16:15:10] <gene> mean
[16:15:49] <skunkworks> probe, what you scanned, resultant code :)
[16:16:02] <anonimasu> jepler: maybe someday you can import a cad drawing with fixtures drawn.. for collission avoidance..
[16:16:04] <anonimasu> :)
[16:16:08] <anonimasu> that's not a bad idea actually
[16:16:42] <gene> Since much of it lengthwise is a straight line, anomolous data should be easy to filter.
[16:17:00] <gene> I can put that on pastbin I suppose.
[16:17:08] <gene> which pastebin?
[16:17:18] <skunkworks> .ca
[16:21:10] <gene> code is at <ttp://www.pastebin.ca/477338>
[16:22:23] <gene> output .txt file too big for pastebin.ca
[16:23:52] <gene> the last few lines are in this format:
[16:23:58] <gene> 3.530000 0.460000 -0.080866
[16:23:58] <gene> 3.530000 0.470000 -0.082929
[16:23:59] <gene> 3.530000 0.480000 -0.084721
[16:23:59] <gene> 3.530000 0.490000 -0.087118
[16:23:59] <gene> 3.530000 0.500000 -0.090289
[16:24:25] <gene> with the first value obviously the x, next is t etc
[16:24:34] <gene> next isy etc
[16:25:52] <gene> I thought, while waatching the code run, that I needed to do a mirror od o100 because it was 4 or 5 seconds doing the retrace move each time
[16:26:49] <gene> Humm, do we have gnuplot installed by default?
[16:26:58] <jepler> no, but we can install it with apt
[16:27:16] <gene> or adept I'd assume
[16:27:30] <toastydeath> no only apt
[16:27:30] <gene> lemme see if I can find it
[16:28:42] <gene> no, apt can't find it
[16:28:58] <toastydeath> yes it can =(
[16:29:13] <gene> what repo then
[16:29:36] <toastydeath> i dunno
[16:29:38] <toastydeath> i'm on a windows box
[16:29:46] <toastydeath> apt-cache search gnuplot
[16:29:46] <gene> infidel
[16:30:12] <toastydeath> i've installed gnuplot via apt a bazillion times
[16:30:37] <toastydeath> and that is a perfectly accurate number.
[16:31:08] <gene> you may have, and so have I on fedora boxes, but:
[16:31:13] <gene> gene@shop:~/emc2/nc_files$ sudo apt-cache search gnuplot
[16:31:13] <gene> bonnie++ - Hard drive bottleneck testing benchmark suite.
[16:31:13] <gene> calc - An advanced calculator and mathematical tool for Emacs.
[16:31:13] <gene> devscripts - Scripts to make the life of a Debian Package maintainer easier
[16:31:13] <gene> gene@shop:~/emc2/nc_files$
[16:31:36] <gene> now I ask you, what the hell has all that got to do with it?
[16:31:54] <toastydeath> apt-get update?
[16:32:43] <toastydeath> http://packages.ubuntulinux.org/edgy/math/gnuplot
[16:32:49] <gene> didn't change a thing
[16:33:02] <toastydeath> i am blaming you in some capacity.
[16:34:22] <gene> Just because I have broad shoulders (and gut etc)
[16:34:49] <gene> how do I enable the universe repo, thats where its at?
[16:35:04] <toastydeath> i dunno
[16:35:15] <gene> Steve?
[16:35:25] <toastydeath> i always edit /etc/apt/sources.list
[16:35:32] <toastydeath> and include the thing manually
[16:35:42] <gene> I'll give that a shot, bbl
[16:39:26] <gene> adept is pulling it in now, thanks
[16:39:57] <gene> BUT, when push comes to shove, the cli rules...:)
[16:40:24] <anonimasu> haha
[16:42:01] <toastydeath> okay so does anybody understand twitter
[16:42:06] <toastydeath> i.e. why
[16:42:08] <toastydeath> WHY
[16:43:31] <alex_joni> wth is adept?
[16:47:29] <gene> a better gui front end for apt, possibly a little smarter but not sure abouyt that
[16:47:53] <alex_joni> whateeever
[16:47:55] <alex_joni> :P
[16:48:14] <gene> its the default package manager for kubuntu-6.06
[16:48:32] <alex_joni> wth is kubuntu?
[16:48:34] <alex_joni> (kidding)
[16:49:09] <gene> Alex, I wasn't sticking out a leg for you to pull, really :)
[16:49:17] <alex_joni> * alex_joni stops pulling
[16:49:32] <gene> chuckle
[16:49:38] <alex_joni> heh
[16:49:42] <zelva> anyone using rtai-lab on debian ?
[16:49:59] <gene> now I gotta go study on gnuplot, I had it put the docs in too.
[16:50:52] <alex_joni> zelva: not likely
[16:51:10] <zelva> only ubuntu ?
[16:51:35] <alex_joni> rtai-lab in general
[16:51:45] <zelva> aha i see :)
[16:54:10] <gene> Humm, gnuplot only does 2d, grrrr
[16:54:25] <alex_joni> I think it does 3D too
[16:54:30] <anonimasu> it does 3d too :)
[16:54:40] <toastydeath> it does 4d if you enable it at compile time
[16:54:51] <toastydeath> (i am making things up again)
[16:54:54] <alex_joni> Gnuplot supports many types of plots in either 2D and 3D.
[16:55:16] <anonimasu> lol
[16:55:18] <gene> So apparently I'm going to have to write a filter as it barfs on line one of the output.txt file
[16:55:38] <toastydeath> ?
[16:55:50] <alex_joni> http://gnuplot.sourceforge.net/demo_4.2/surface1.html
[16:56:01] <alex_joni> gene: of course you need a file for gnuplot
[16:56:04] <toastydeath> wow that's some fancy graphs
[16:56:09] <alex_joni> how to interpret the data it gets from you
[16:56:10] <gene> gnuplot> -0.000000 -0.500000 -0.171521
[16:56:10] <gene> ^
[16:56:10] <gene> "floor-plate-scan.txt", line 1: invalid command
[16:56:18] <toastydeath> lol srsly dude
[16:56:25] <toastydeath> you can't just shovel data into it
[16:56:30] <alex_joni> http://gnuplot.sourceforge.net/demo_4.2/surface1.8.gnu
[16:56:36] <alex_joni> that's probably what you want
[16:56:45] <gene> prop charsets grr
[16:57:04] <gene> Is that part of the insstall?
[16:58:45] <gene> now what, feed it to gnuplot as the first file?
[16:59:50] <toastydeath> to be honest i don't know
[16:59:51] <danielbr> hello
[16:59:55] <gene> that didn't work error in line 7
[16:59:58] <toastydeath> i never got gnuplot to do what i want
[17:00:32] <gene> gene@shop:~/emc2/nc_files$ gnuplot surface1.8.gnu floor-plate-scan.txt
[17:00:32] <gene> "surface1.8.gnu", line 7: undefined variable: offset
[17:01:10] <gene> I use it under an alias, called amplot, part of the amanda package, works just fine
[17:01:48] <toastydeath> oh i have no doubt it works fine
[17:01:53] <toastydeath> i'm just saying i'm incompetent
[17:02:19] <gene> you have company, now row your end of the boat :)
[17:02:52] <alex_joni> bbl
[17:03:05] <gene> same here, out of coffee
[17:03:16] <alex_joni> gene: check your installed gnuplot for scripts
[17:03:20] <alex_joni> might be a diff. version
[17:04:10] <danielbr> I wonder if anybody read my message about tests with Mach3 and EMC2 using G41
[17:04:30] <danielbr> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.devel/443
[17:05:44] <skunkworks> I think you have to go back to chris and rays posts. It would be a 'substantial' re-write of the cutter comp code.
[17:06:37] <danielbr> I read that skunkworks, thanks
[17:06:38] <toastydeath> i've used plenty of controllers that flipped out when you gave it a curve it couldn't trace
[17:07:22] <danielbr> yes, but when you have two G1 block?
[17:07:40] <toastydeath> from what i understand you are saying
[17:07:56] <toastydeath> when you give it two g1 blocks that are at an angle
[17:08:01] <toastydeath> it flips out
[17:08:19] <danielbr> this is a mach3 plot http://imagebin.org/8507
[17:08:54] <danielbr> http://imagebin.org/8508
[17:08:59] <danielbr> http://imagebin.org/8509
[17:09:05] <toastydeath> what are you trying to show
[17:09:20] <danielbr> this mach3 g41 comp
[17:09:36] <toastydeath> when you give it a cutter radius larger than the programmed radius?
[17:09:43] <anonimasu> yeah
[17:09:52] <toastydeath> that's natural behavior for a lot of controllers
[17:10:00] <toastydeath> it's letting you know you did something retarded
[17:10:17] <danielbr> see image 8509
[17:10:24] <toastydeath> i'm looking at it
[17:10:27] <anonimasu> yeah, but is that really retarded?
[17:10:36] <toastydeath> yeah
[17:10:39] <anonimasu> if you want to cut a square with a arabity sized cutter?
[17:10:52] <toastydeath> internal square?
[17:10:57] <danielbr> http://www.bmed.mcgill.ca/dept_resources/machine_shop/machinery/mill/Fagor/8040M_USER.pdf
[17:11:00] <anonimasu> toastydeath: yeah
[17:11:18] <danielbr> this a Fagor doc see pag 300-312
[17:11:24] <toastydeath> then don't use cutter comp?
[17:11:36] <toastydeath> or lie to the machine.
[17:11:53] <anonimasu> toastydeath: how do you get around to doing the g2/g3's at the corners?
[17:12:02] <toastydeath> the purpose of cutter comp is to give you the same result regardless of the cutter
[17:12:09] <toastydeath> not to give you a different result based on the cutter diameter
[17:12:17] <toastydeath> wich is why several commercial controllers freak out when you do this
[17:12:19] <anonimasu> toastydeath: well, then cutter comp is crap..
[17:12:29] <toastydeath> not from a money making standpoint
[17:12:40] <anonimasu> or, it's only good for compenasting down to 0.xx..
[17:12:58] <toastydeath> you need to use g2/3
[17:13:11] <danielbr> most cnc controller i know work like mach3 or fagor example
[17:13:13] <anonimasu> toastydeath: I guess we should all just order out own copies of mastercam..
[17:13:26] <toastydeath> i dunno about you but I write most of my code by hand
[17:13:47] <toastydeath> i thought that's what we're talking about here
[17:14:39] <danielbr> this is from that fagor doc http://imagebin.org/8506
[17:14:55] <toastydeath> what is "most cnc controllers"
[17:15:01] <toastydeath> do you have a list of specific models
[17:15:25] <toastydeath> because i've seen it freak on fanuc controllers and a haas control
[17:15:27] <anonimasu> hm, heidenhain craps out I think..
[17:15:43] <anonimasu> though there's a chamfer command you can use ;) and just throw in your cutter diameter from the plc..
[17:16:02] <anonimasu> err fillet..
[17:16:19] <toastydeath> you could write a fillet macro on fanuc and haas
[17:16:24] <danielbr> all italian cnc woodworking controllers we work accept g1 intersections and round corners
[17:16:49] <toastydeath> what is your application
[17:16:54] <toastydeath> that you need to use intersections
[17:16:58] <toastydeath> instead of defined radii
[17:17:02] <danielbr> woodworking mostly
[17:17:07] <toastydeath> what is your application
[17:17:16] <toastydeath> what part are you producing
[17:17:22] <toastydeath> that you need to use an intersection
[17:17:31] <anonimasu> I think this is more like a being lazy thing..
[17:17:39] <danielbr> but if you read that post you can see my problem
[17:17:46] <anonimasu> for me I know it is..
[17:18:00] <toastydeath> i don't see a problem
[17:18:08] <toastydeath> i see you trying to get around fully defining your part
[17:18:08] <danielbr> it make this easy
[17:18:16] <anonimasu> toastydeath: yep.
[17:18:25] <toastydeath> and to be serious, i think you should not use cutter comp
[17:18:46] <toastydeath> if you really want to change the part based on cutter size
[17:19:02] <skunkworks> we never had cutter comp - our machines where too old. Always offset in our cad software.
[17:19:06] <skunkworks> or by hand
[17:19:23] <skunkworks> I don't think I have ever used it.
[17:19:34] <danielbr> if you have some good cam is OK
[17:19:50] <toastydeath> here is why some (expensive) controllers freak out about this radius thing
[17:19:58] <toastydeath> you are cutting a 12000 dollar block of tool steel.
[17:20:05] <skunkworks> But you can see the issue. emc would have to look an infinate number of moves ahead to figure out the new cutter path.
[17:20:05] <toastydeath> your cutter is too big for the radius.
[17:20:19] <toastydeath> you want that thing to alarm out before you start cutting.
[17:21:40] <danielbr> mach2 have g41 like emc2 work after some demand art change the comp code http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14537
[17:22:11] <danielbr> now with mach3 g41 is useful!
[17:22:39] <danielbr> but i can not do what i need with mach3
[17:23:16] <danielbr> for other good features emc2 have and mach3 do not
[17:23:38] <anonimasu> toastydeath: that's a good point too
[17:23:56] <toastydeath> it's there to save your rear end when you're making a part that matters
[17:24:27] <toastydeath> and i can fully understand your frustration if you're just doing a couple wood parts
[17:24:35] <toastydeath> and just want to hack out a fast toolpath to get the job done
[17:25:05] <toastydeath> but i don't believe changing a controller to assist the fast hack toolpath way of coding is the right thing to do
[17:26:08] <danielbr> http://imagebin.org/8510
[17:26:15] <toastydeath> also maybe you should look into an apt postprocessor
[17:26:40] <danielbr> apt postprocessor?
[17:26:52] <toastydeath> apt is a geometric machining language
[17:27:12] <toastydeath> you define lines and stuff and tell the machine to do things, "go to this point, on the left side of this line"
[17:27:14] <danielbr> links?
[17:27:19] <toastydeath> i don't have any at the moment, sorryt
[17:27:20] <toastydeath> *sorry
[17:27:22] <anonimasu> #cam
[17:27:27] <anonimasu> has a link somewere.
[17:27:37] <anonimasu> they are working in a visual apt clone/frontend
[17:28:02] <toastydeath> that sounds cool
[17:28:09] <danielbr> i'll look
[17:29:25] <toastydeath> i have never been able to find any APT stuff
[17:29:28] <toastydeath> open source
[17:31:35] <danielbr> for my aplication the better way use tool diameter comp like Fagor or Mach3
[17:31:46] <anonimasu> bbl
[17:31:59] <danielbr> is anyone can change the comp code i cam pay for this work
[17:32:06] <danielbr> can
[18:20:01] <skunkworks> ?
[18:20:21] <skunkworks> ok - so I change the "ati" to "vesa" correct?
[18:24:09] <skunkworks> seemed to work.. the ati driver was causing overruns
[19:32:57] <JymmmEMC> When using a SSR to control a load, what side to you connect> hot or neutral?
[19:34:33] <SWPadnos> you should never ever switch neutral
[19:34:36] <skunkworks> do you mean which side do you switch? normaly it is the hot side. Less chance of accidents.
[19:34:54] <SWPadnos> let me rephrase that: you should never ever *EVER* switch neutral
[19:35:04] <SWPadnos> unless you're also switching hot
[19:35:10] <CIA-8> 03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/components/at_pid.c:
[19:35:10] <CIA-8> -Modified PID calculations to calculate PID values appropriate for EMCs
[19:35:10] <CIA-8> PID equation. The PID equation they were intended for is slightly different.
[19:35:10] <CIA-8> -Improved accuracy of period calculation.
[19:35:12] <cradek> if your radio has a loud buzz, try turning the plug over in the outlet
[19:36:02] <JymmmEMC> cradek: Since you mentioned it.... on polarized plugs, which is hot, the wider one?
[19:36:17] <skunkworks> let me rephrase that - less chance of killing someone.
[19:36:19] <cradek> ask the internet, I'm not sure
[19:36:30] <jepler> I searched for "polarized plug hot" and it looks like the answer is behind the first link
[19:37:25] <gringos> extern int usrmotInit(char *name);
[19:37:35] <SWPadnos> return(true);
[19:38:26] <gringos> the source code for emc is hard to follow
[19:38:36] <gringos> it should have been further split into subfolders
[19:38:36] <SWPadnos> you are absolutely correct :)
[19:38:51] <cradek> welcome gringos
[19:39:05] <gringos> hehe
[19:39:28] <jepler> ~/emc2-src/src$ find -type d | wc -l
[19:39:28] <jepler> 315
[19:39:33] <jepler> yes, a few more folders are clearly what is called for
[19:39:45] <cradek> or directories even
[19:40:37] <gringos> subdirectured ?? :)
[19:41:48] <gringos> where's the go code ?
[19:42:17] <cradek> go?
[19:42:27] <gringos> rs274
[19:42:34] <cradek> in the rs274 directory
[19:42:38] <gringos> yep
[19:42:40] <gringos> found er
[19:42:48] <skunkworks> g0?
[19:43:16] <cradek> bbl
[19:48:11] <gringos> why doyou need rtapi in linux ?
[19:48:51] <SWPadnos> RTAPI is a thin layer over the underlying realtime sytem (which can be RTAI or RTLinux)
[19:49:20] <SWPadnos> it allows the rest of the upper layer code to be independent of the lower level RT system
[19:49:55] <renesis> so its extra processing overhead?
[19:50:10] <gringos> priority based should work aswell ?
[19:50:25] <renesis> who do i submit axis bugs/feature requests to?
[19:50:39] <jepler> renesis: there is a tracker on sourceforge which can be used for that purpose.
[19:50:44] <SWPadnos> renesis, not really - if there are direct mappings tfrom RTAPI to RTAI (for example) then the RTAPI call can be a define
[19:50:48] <renesis> kk
[19:51:14] <SWPadnos> gringos, no, the normal linux schedulers (even Ingo's "real time patches" aren't real-time enough for machine control, and aren't hard RT
[19:51:16] <SWPadnos> bbl
[19:51:36] <SWPadnos> Ingo's patches may be getting there now though, I haven't looked in a while
[19:54:10] <jepler> but don't let our naysaying stop you from writing an rtapi layer above whatever technology you think might work instead of rtai or rtlinux -- if it works we would welcome the contribution.
[19:56:41] <gringos> i got nothin
[19:57:26] <gringos> do have some feature requests though
[19:57:53] <gringos> 4 corner touch with a probe to know your peice levelness
[19:59:57] <gringos> or multipoint for bumpy surfaces
[20:00:24] <gringos> 4 axis would be great for that
[20:05:33] <gringos> 5 better though
[20:06:50] <gringos> where can a person even get a 5 axis driver board ?
[20:08:31] <gringos> having problems finding the hardware io code ?
[20:09:37] <gringos> hal/components/stepgen.c
[20:10:00] <gringos> no microstepping ?
[20:18:32] <jepler> the step waveform looks the same no matter whether the stepper controller uses microstepping, half-stepping, or full-stepping
[20:18:55] <jepler> the distance moved per step changes. that distance is set in the inifile, item [AXIS_#]INPUT_SCALE
[20:20:15] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: Are you around?
[20:28:10] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: Now I am ;)
[20:28:26] <martin_lundstrom> Dallur: Any news?
[20:41:37] <a-l-p-h-a2> a-l-p-h-a2 is now known as a-l-p-h-a
[22:52:32] <ohiopctechDOTcom> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBW01i_fIwA <- new cnc mini mill vid