#emc | Logs for 2007-05-02

[02:40:35] <ohiopctechDOTcom> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsmiIeAkE-o&mode=related&search=
[03:49:51] <CIA-4> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/ (control.c command.c): simplify probing logic
[03:51:27] <cradek> yay cia is back
[04:03:21] <CIA-4> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/ (upci.c upci.h): first commit of user space PCI lib
[04:05:15] <CIA-4> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/ (bitfile.c bitfile.h): first commit of Xilinx bitfile manipulation lib
[04:12:59] <CIA-4> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/ (bfload.c Submakefile): new FPGA bitfile loader
[04:13:10] <CIA-4> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/Makefile: new FPGA bitfile loader
[06:41:30] <NightHawk_Eng> goddmorning
[06:41:40] <NightHawk_Eng> ops... goodmorning
[07:28:17] <tomp> i used PDM by mistake, to jog my servos. It works better than PWM for my needs, as it runs smoother at very low Duty Cycles. PDM approaches 0% closer than PWM and is more responsive. http://imagebin.org/8432
[07:30:49] <tomp> in PDM the pulse width is constant, only the frequency changes ( so sayeth the halscope )
[07:31:03] <Jymmmm> ...and it was good
[07:32:13] <tomp> same width UNTL, at higher freq, they 'collide' or merge into groups
[07:32:16] <NightHawk_Eng> Hi folks
[07:32:24] <tomp> hello
[07:32:31] <NightHawk_Eng> I've got a hardware question
[07:32:45] <tomp> ?
[07:33:03] <NightHawk_Eng> What do you think about C3 CpU (VIA EPIA)
[07:33:02] <Jymmmm> Yes, you can make paper machet with a plasma cutter
[07:33:06] <NightHawk_Eng> for linuxcnc?
[07:34:00] <tomp> NightHawk_Eng: I dont know, but you can run emc from a live cd and run the latency tests to see if it is acceptable
[07:34:30] <NightHawk_Eng> TOMP: I haven't this board. I have to order it :(
[07:35:21] <Jymmmm> Some have found that P3's do better than P4's, but I couldn't tell you why though.
[07:35:35] <tomp> NightHawk_Eng: sorry, i have no experience with it, try the wiki to see it the words are in any pages by using the search function at bottom left corner
[07:37:39] <NightHawk_Eng> Jymmmm : I've done some test with RTAI and I'v found that a P3 1000 is a lot better than P4 3.2Ghz
[07:38:23] <NightHawk_Eng> the problem is I have to found a mini-itx to start developing my own electronics for CNC
[07:39:10] <NightHawk_Eng> Commell has very interesting mini-itx board but the problem is the CPU. I still haven't found a p3 reseller (i know it is obsolete) but for rtai is the best
[07:39:33] <NightHawk_Eng> I'm thinking about VIA C3 is a sort of clone with some power tweaking, but I'm not sure
[07:39:39] <tomp> NightHawk_Eng: hey I do have some experience... i didnt recognize the Centaur Cyrix C3 processor... I had problems with one nearly 2 years ago, and replaced the chip with a standard intel P3. The computer is running a 3 axis stepper setup with an older EMC installation now.
[07:40:19] <tomp> and it was a VIA motherboard
[07:41:06] <NightHawk_Eng> there is new processor , VIA C7, but i'm scareb about the new features it has (we found that Hyperthreading, Clock throttling and so on is latency killer)
[07:41:19] <NightHawk_Eng> tomp : interesting
[07:41:21] <tomp> it was not incompatible, it was just slow
[07:41:34] <NightHawk_Eng> tomp : so, you had problem with this chip
[07:41:48] <tomp> problem, not death :)
[07:42:10] <NightHawk_Eng> tomp : I've read that VIA C3 is a different CPU than Cyrix (now it has new core called Nehemiah)
[07:42:31] <NightHawk_Eng> :)
[07:43:15] <tomp> hmmm. then i dont know... the bios reported "Cyrix Centaur Hauls" and the chip said Cyrix on it
[07:44:59] <NightHawk_Eng> how many Mhz
[07:46:25] <tomp> NightHawk_Eng: maybe what you want can be asked on the group list for emc. One fellow is using some mini-itx boards that are compatible. ( my old board was 133Mhz? was pretty slow )
[07:49:42] <tomp> NightHawk_Eng: look at this all about mini-itx and emc http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=emc-users%40lists.sourceforge.net&q=mini-itx
[07:50:46] <tomp> manfredi lito uses one
[07:50:56] <tomp> xemet?
[07:51:22] <tomp> 3am here! buona note!
[07:51:38] <NightHawk_Eng> it's 10:00 Am here. Italy
[07:51:48] <NightHawk_Eng> good night!!! (Buona notte)!!!
[07:51:52] <NightHawk_Eng> many many thanx
[09:13:25] <sebjames> Hello there. I'm studying ncd and vhd files now..
[12:37:53] <NightHawk_Eng> VIA C3 or VIA C7.... this is the problem!!!! Help me. I don't know which one will be the best for realtime.
[12:49:34] <skunkworks> links?
[12:53:33] <NightHawk_Eng> hi skunkworks
[12:54:48] <NightHawk_Eng> As I said some time ago, I'd like to develop my own series of CNC routers with LinuxEMC. Now I'm searching a godd Mobo with Mini-itx form factor
[12:55:15] <NightHawk_Eng> I've done some test with various CPU. I've found that P3 1000 is the best for realtime compared to:
[12:55:20] <NightHawk_Eng> Athlon 2500+
[12:55:26] <NightHawk_Eng> P4 3.2Ghz
[12:55:30] <NightHawk_Eng> P4 2Ghz
[12:56:03] <skunkworks> On board video with shared memory is one of the killers.
[12:56:09] <NightHawk_Eng> Now. The P3 is no longer available on the market so the best solution is to buy a ITX with a CPU directly soldered to it
[12:56:54] <NightHawk_Eng> Yeah, you are right but I've found that disabilng 3d performance will improve latency
[12:58:20] <NightHawk_Eng> the mobo I've found is VIA EPIA M10000 (C3 Nehemiah 1.0Ghz) or JetWay Versa F4 15000 (C7 @1.5Ghz and DDR2 Support)
[12:59:24] <NightHawk_Eng> the price is very similar (150 - 160 euros)
[12:59:24] <NightHawk_Eng> and I can't test it before buying (online shop)
[13:00:42] <rafa__> good morning for all
[13:00:58] <rafa__> ( where i live is morning) heheh :)
[13:01:31] <NightHawk_Eng> Hi Rafa
[13:01:39] <rafa__> where i find dadshit about MESA 5I20 in spanish
[13:01:42] <NightHawk_Eng> In Italy is 3:03 PM ;)
[13:01:56] <rafa__> Oh Jesus
[13:02:14] <rafa__> In Brazil is 10:00 pm
[13:03:51] <rafa__> where i find dadshit about MESA 5I20 in spanish?
[13:04:00] <rafa__> you know?
[13:04:16] <rafa__> please
[13:04:20] <jepler> rafa__: I don't know of many mesa 5i20 documentation in spanish.;
[13:05:03] <NightHawk_Eng> I found nothing useful for your rafa. Only English for Mesa 5i20
[13:05:24] <rafa__> dear jepler i find in documentation but i dont see it
[13:05:29] <rafa__> Ok thanks
[13:05:43] <rafa__> I read in inglish
[13:06:07] <rafa__> Its good ideia if emc extends in any languages:
[13:06:18] <rafa__> spanish is good ideia
[13:06:21] <jepler> like the rest of emc, all the documentation is written by volunteers
[13:06:34] <rafa__> i am from brasil
[13:06:45] <rafa__> for me no problem but ...
[13:06:56] <rafa__> emc is hard because this
[13:07:56] <rafa__> emc is hard for some people ( in brasil, argentina etc..)
[13:08:00] <rafa__> because this
[13:08:07] <rafa__> ok?
[13:08:33] <jepler> like the rest of emc, all the documentation is written by volunteers
[13:11:02] <rafa__> ok jepler
[13:11:06] <rafa__> very thanks
[13:11:19] <rafa__> note:
[13:11:58] <rafa__> Brasil and Argentina is countrey where economy in industry metalurgical is great
[13:12:37] <rafa__> the 2 is good conuntry off difusion emc
[13:39:32] <tomp> The PDM variation of the hal component 'pwmgen' is like a frequency generated with a fixed width pulse. What determines the pulse width?
[13:45:01] <skunkworks> jmkasunich is the expert on it - as he wrote it.
[13:56:07] <NightHawk_Eng> skunkworks : do you which one could answer to my litlle dilemma?
[13:57:07] <skunkworks> I do not know.. I think your just going to have to test them. Buy one of each ;)
[13:59:53] <NightHawk_Eng> :D
[14:00:08] <NightHawk_Eng> I think that it's the only way.
[14:00:10] <NightHawk_Eng> :(
[14:00:52] <skunkworks> post on the wiki your results for others
[14:01:07] <NightHawk_Eng> can you give me the url?
[14:01:16] <NightHawk_Eng> I know its a dummy wuestion :)
[14:01:17] <NightHawk_Eng> question
[14:01:49] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl
[14:05:07] <jepler> tomp: the pdm period is determined by the frequency of the thread where make-pulses is executed
[14:05:24] <jepler> tomp: so if it's in a 50us base-period, then the active/inactive periods will be around 50us +- latency
[14:16:49] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36361
[14:16:57] <skunkworks> he got it working on fiesty fawn.
[14:19:08] <skunkworks> hmm - with what he did - is he just running sim?
[14:19:37] <cradek> I was also wondering that
[14:19:40] <jepler> I'm sure a build of sim from source would be pretty easy
[14:19:51] <cradek> sure
[14:34:10] <skunkworks> What would be the command to test if the rtai is installed/
[14:34:25] <skunkworks> I suppose the latency test huh
[14:40:35] <cradek> I want to add probe protection to the motion controller
[14:40:41] <cradek> it seems like it should be optional
[14:40:47] <cradek> I can't decide how to do it
[14:41:05] <cradek> I think "protection" = if the probe trips while not probing, stop
[14:41:20] <cradek> a few ideas:
[14:41:40] <cradek> have a motion.protect-the-probe param or pin, and if it's true, stop when the probe trips if not probing
[14:42:28] <cradek> have a motion.abort-right-now input pin, and a motion.i-am-probing-now output, and let the user make 'probe && !probing => abort' if he wants
[14:43:14] <cradek> brb
[14:44:10] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=292816#post292816
[15:34:09] <tomp> jepler: thanks
[15:35:38] <skunkworks> interesting http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=292834#post292834
[15:37:50] <cradek> it's very possible 2.6.15-magma installs and works fine on hirsute hedgehog 17.08
[15:38:53] <skunkworks> cool
[15:51:33] <tomp> jepler: great info, now raised period to 500000 (1/2 mS), and i can move at 1/2% DutyCycle :) larger pulse width allows lower velocities! makes this great harmonic as I spin the pyvcp D% knob from -99% to +99%
[15:52:04] <jepler> tomp: what are you doing?
[15:53:25] <tomp> jepler: moving a dc servo with a pwmgen, and a pyvcp panel. it's a 24V pittmann brushed motor and a l298 hbridge, using up/down fed with PDM
[15:53:55] <cradek> jepler: when using my pyvcp button hooked to a signal: I push it, AXIS pops up an (expected) error, I let go of the button, the signal is stuck at true forever until I press/release the button again
[15:54:06] <cradek> jepler: is it an AXIS bug? pyvcp bug? other?
[15:55:32] <jepler> cradek: strange behavior.
[15:55:43] <jepler> cradek: pyvcp or tk bug, I'd say
[15:56:16] <jepler> while the button is pressed in, tk should have grab and that guarantees it will see the eventual button release event
[15:56:41] <jepler> tomp: and you get better low-speed control by running pwmgen make-pulses slowly than quickly?
[15:56:45] <jepler> that is contrary to my expectations
[15:56:57] <tomp> jepler: http://imagebin.org/8432 i will try to make a process value to freq converter for edm, and limit the motion using encoder and watching the values (non emc, just hal )
[16:00:42] <tomp> jepler: PDM seems better, lots better, as pwm wouldnt even generate values near 0 in most tests (largish deadband say from +3%DuytyCycle thru -3%DutyCycle), while pdm is good right to 0 and at finer resolutions near 0 (motion at +/- 0.5%
[16:01:35] <tomp> larger pulse width is good to get some motion near 0 with PDM, but gets coggy if too big
[16:02:25] <jepler> OK -- so you're talking about motor behavior, not saying that pwmgen won't give a 1/2% duty cycle when you observe its output in halscope
[16:03:04] <tomp> jepler: halscope shows nada near 0 with pwmgen AND the motor dont move ;)
[16:03:05] <jepler> you're saying that with a small period (e.g., 50us) and duty cycle (e.g., 1/2%) you don't get good motor movement
[16:03:31] <jepler> if that's true, it's a pwmgen bug
[16:03:45] <jepler> assuming you're observing the right thread in halscope
[16:04:15] <tomp> jepler: i observed the pin state
[16:07:12] <tomp> as i understand it, it's correct behaiviour for many combinations of period and frequency to disallow many requests (jmk described this to me) also i dont use 'dither'. i will try to get some screen shots with associated thread period and pwmgen frequency.
[16:07:56] <tomp> jepler' disallow' means to truncate or floor usually, but near 0 it rounds to 0 creating deadband
[16:07:59] <jepler> here's the "test" I just ran: http://pastebin.ca/467533
[16:08:39] <jepler> I used PDM mode (pwm-freq 0) and saw output pulses with values of .0001 (1/100%) and smaller
[16:09:35] <tomp> jepler: running it ...
[16:09:50] <jepler> scope the "fast" thread
[16:10:17] <jepler> scope the signal "pwmgen.0.pwm" and also trigger on its rising edge
[16:10:49] <jepler> I *do* stop getting pulses at around .000025
[16:16:08] <tomp> jepler: how do you change the frequency with this setup? i got the scope up, i got the signal, halcsope printing dots like crazy to the terminal 'waiting to get ready'..... with scope zoomed all the way out i can see the pin like signal blips at 10mS/div.
[16:18:41] <jepler> oh -- it should be 'loadusr -w halscope' (lowercase w) but that isn't affecting the operation of halscope
[16:19:06] <tomp> jepler: do you setp from another terminal?
[16:20:24] <jepler> yes
[16:21:38] <jepler> I didn't pay attention so much to the pulses themselves, but at the fact that halscope was consistently triggering even when I made low duty cycles
[16:36:49] <tomp> jepler: http://imagebin.org/8434 no pulses out ( ok at 2% with these params ) hal file is on screen, halmeter shows request is 1%. i'll play with it a bit , i see i had only 1 thread that handled both 'update' and 'make-pulses'
[16:37:28] <tomp> scope is zoomed all the way out and i cant see any on auto trigger
[16:38:26] <jepler> you're not using pdm
[16:38:40] <jepler> you have pwm-freq 1000
[16:39:15] <tomp> no, in the stuff i dont like , i use pwm, in the stuff i like i use pdm, the pdm works at near 0 and i'll capture that now
[16:39:24] <tomp> i showed you what didnt work,
[16:43:27] <NightHawk_Eng> I retry to write my question (maybe someone joined this channel with some experience with mini-itx)
[16:43:54] <NightHawk_Eng> Anyone know Jetway Mini-itx? 1.5Ghz will work with linuxcnc
[16:44:59] <tomp> jepler: heres the PDM scope capture and hal file (sorry for the confusion ) http://imagebin.org/8435
[16:51:29] <tomp> it works down to "-8e-05" DutyCycle but is just a cog every 7 seconds, :)
[16:51:52] <tomp> actual motion at motor
[16:52:39] <skunkworks> tomp: have you closed the loop yet?
[16:52:45] <tomp> nope
[16:53:24] <tomp> next step after smooth motion,i do have 1um linear scales ready (general dynamics)
[16:55:09] <tomp> i think want to up the motor velocity ( belts 1:5 + 1:6 for 1:30 ) get away from cogging, and increase the torq, stay in very smooth range while getting good low speed ( screw hi speed )
[16:56:05] <tomp> btw: i may never close the loop, just monitor position ( scales not used for velocity loop, just limit stroke )
[16:57:06] <skunkworks> I think (in my mind) that once you close the loop - the pid will do what ever to make the motor perform acrodinly.. Cradek was running his lathe with iirc +/-5 levels of pwm
[16:58:32] <skunkworks> and getting very decent performance out of it.
[17:01:52] <tomp> i wont be using pid, just p (got that already ). I & D bad for edm, they disrespect the process and try to maintain velocity. the velocity is irrellevant, the relative proximity of tool to work is all important, so this method allows moving up & down between 2 limits , pid would aggravate that and enforce forward progression at the expense of the process ( which would go to hell )
[17:02:06] <NightHawk_Eng> Ehi folks, what about flash IDE memory instead of HD. How many Gb is needed for Linuxcnc (ubuntu + linuxcnc)
[17:03:22] <skunkworks> NightHawk_Eng: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Hardware_Requirements
[17:03:31] <skunkworks> looks like about 4gb
[17:04:11] <NightHawk_Eng> Skunkworks : thanx. In fact it looks like 4Gb
[17:04:29] <NightHawk_Eng> Anyone use a Flash HD instead a regular HD (not live distro but installed)
[17:04:31] <NightHawk_Eng> ?
[17:49:18] <skunkworks> I have gotten the livecd to boot off of a usb keychain drive..
[17:56:02] <NightHawk_Eng> I have read that Flash IDE drive has a maximum R//W capability. I'm thinking about turning off the swap partiotion on linux (I've got 1Gb of RAM)
[17:56:32] <NightHawk_Eng> In Italy 4Gb of flash IDE drive = 108Euros
[17:56:50] <NightHawk_Eng> pretty expensive but I think it will be more safe for an industrial environment
[17:57:20] <NightHawk_Eng> Temperature drift and mechanical shocks or vibration will kill a regular HD, don't you think?
[18:01:36] <NightHawk_Eng> Here in Italy is 8:00 PM..... dinner time.... see you later... CIAO!!!
[18:49:51] <skunkworks> uh oh. CIA isn't listening anymore..
[18:51:43] <SWPadnos> good - they shouldn't be listening anyway
[18:51:45] <SWPadnos> :)
[19:11:52] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: revert rev 1.67: it broke mouse incremental jogging
[19:17:08] <skunkworks> the question is... What has fenn been up to?
[19:18:01] <SWPadnos> I was *JUST* wondering that
[19:18:05] <SWPadnos> oh wait, I wasn't :)
[19:18:45] <anonimasu> I think he's taking a break from irc..
[19:19:04] <skunkworks> Now why would anyone want to do that?
[19:20:10] <skunkworks> he isn't in jail is he? ;)
[19:20:47] <anonimasu> 4lol
[19:20:49] <anonimasu> no clue
[19:23:08] <skunkworks> hey - you can pan around in eagle with the center mouse button.
[19:23:18] <skunkworks> * skunkworks didn't know that
[19:23:46] <skunkworks> that makes things easier
[19:26:10] <skunkworks> I 'will' get used to eagles gui one of these days.
[20:05:23] <Jymmmmmmm> SWPadnos: PING
[20:06:28] <skunkworks> Reply from SWPadnos: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=150
[20:06:45] <SWPadnos> PONG
[20:10:22] <alex_joni> skunkworks: that's so windows of you
[20:11:03] <alex_joni> 64 bytes from SWPadnos: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.246 ms
[20:13:42] <skunkworks> ;)
[20:14:56] <alex_joni> * alex_joni returns to his lecture
[20:14:59] <NightHawk_Eng> skunkworks : I've just buyed the Jetway Versa F4 1.5Ghz
[20:15:23] <NightHawk_Eng> ASAP I'll give you some info about latency
[20:16:37] <SWPadnos> rayh had some success with a Jetway board based on the 1 GHz eden with the CN7 chipset (I think it was)
[20:19:18] <NightHawk_Eng> SWPadnos: I have to choose between C3 nehemiah and the new C7 Chipset. I'm glad I have chosen the right one :)
[20:19:55] <SWPadnos> let's hope so :)
[20:24:14] <NightHawk_Eng> :)
[20:25:24] <NightHawk_Eng> I'd like to develop a slackware distro with rtai and linuxcnc, only for industrial application (no office or interner packages, only cad and CNC)
[20:26:05] <SWPadnos> any particular reason for slackware?
[20:26:42] <cradek> removing packages from our current ubuntu CD would be a trivial task
[20:30:51] <jepler> installing from the ubuntu "server" disc and adding the packages you want is another good option -- "server" installs on systems with 64 megs RAM and needs less than 500GMB disk according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseNotes#head-3ce6c302a65d40697613c768ccd0eca28691c7e3
[20:30:58] <jepler> that should say 500MB
[20:31:23] <cradek> true (in fact I've done that)
[20:31:42] <NightHawk_Eng> because I'd like slackware, it's kind of... "purity" :)
[20:31:45] <alex_joni> is apt-get install emc2 enough? or do you need *ubuntu-dekstop ?
[20:31:54] <NightHawk_Eng> i'd like to install XCFE and RTAI
[20:32:06] <NightHawk_Eng> XCFE is so lightweight
[20:32:06] <alex_joni> NightHawk_Eng: xubuntu-desktop then
[20:32:52] <jepler> you're certainly free to do that, and you may find the wiki page "RtaiFromScratch" helpful in doing it -- but don't expect to find anybody excited about helping you through each step of compiling RTAI, which can be a very frustrating process.
[20:33:18] <alex_joni> * alex_joni certainly lost the enthusiasm to do that again very soon
[20:34:23] <NightHawk_Eng> I'll
[20:37:09] <NightHawk_Eng> I think I have the just amount of enthusiasm to try, don't you think?
[20:37:26] <alex_joni> NightHawk_Eng: then by all means, it can be a good learning experience
[20:37:26] <cradek> haha
[20:37:50] <alex_joni> at least you'll be good with patching, compiling kernels, and debugging deadlocks :D
[20:39:02] <cradek> I found that rtai3.5 + linux 2.6.19 (latest version supported) does not work
[20:39:08] <cradek> so use 2.6.17 which is the next older
[20:40:52] <NightHawk_Eng> I'll use Slackware 10.2
[20:41:08] <NightHawk_Eng> kernel 2.6.15 and rtai 3.3
[20:42:20] <SWPadnos> I found that RTAI magma (from CVS) worked fine with, on an SMP Opteron machine
[20:42:31] <alex_joni> 3.3 might be a bit old
[20:42:50] <NightHawk_Eng> I know it will work on Slack 10.2
[20:42:57] <NightHawk_Eng> It could be a good starting point
[20:43:03] <SWPadnos> but that was with module versioning on, which prevented me from compiling RTAI (and I'm still in the process of correcting that error, but with kernel 2.6.20-11)
[20:43:50] <cradek> SWPadnos: I hate to base a stable system on cvs snapshot of the day, but I guess that's the way to get support for newer kernels
[20:44:08] <SWPadnos> indeed :)
[20:44:27] <SWPadnos> since A64 is only available from CVS, I have no choice
[20:45:40] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: you said it was slower?
[20:46:26] <SWPadnos> it sure seemed that way. it may have been CPU freq scaling
[20:46:47] <SWPadnos> I just did a full kernel + modules build on non-RT in 6 minutes or so
[20:47:01] <SWPadnos> it took something like 20 minutes on RT (I think)
[20:58:03] <ds2> how does cpufreq scaling work with RT? (or does it?)
[21:01:03] <SWPadnos> it probably doesn't if you really want to run a machine
[21:01:30] <SWPadnos> my main goal is to be able to do hardware driver development on my dual dual-core Opteron system, so I only care that I can load the modules
[21:01:55] <ds2> ah gotcha
[21:02:12] <ds2> if that's the case, why not QEMU w/32bit stock kernel?
[21:03:05] <SWPadnos> I have VMWare on that machine, but still any compiling in a VM would only use one core
[21:03:12] <SWPadnos> and slowly at that
[21:03:56] <ds2> someone should put together a cross compiling enviroment
[21:04:03] <SWPadnos> indeed
[21:04:16] <SWPadnos> I'll probably need to do that for my Mesa 4C81, but one thing at a time :)
[21:09:02] <ds2> =)
[21:09:36] <ds2> would RTAI by any chance work on uCLinux or ELKS?
[21:10:11] <SWPadnos> hmmm. good question(s)
[21:10:38] <SWPadnos> but if you're messing with uCLinux or ELKS, you can probably get down far enough to
[21:10:48] <SWPadnos> make a dedicated system, without a "true" RTOS
[21:11:10] <ds2> yes, but I was thinking of getting EMC onto it
[21:12:17] <SWPadnos> all you really need is a new RTAPI to stick EMC on top of
[21:12:30] <SWPadnos> and that can sit on anything you want, for the most part
[21:12:50] <ds2> a PC just seems overkill to control a machine
[21:13:22] <skunkworks> seems overkill for most things people do ;)
[21:13:41] <ds2> more reason to give up the PC =)
[21:13:53] <ds2> go completely wearable
[21:14:07] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:14:13] <SWPadnos> EMC-powered exoskeleton
[21:14:49] <ds2> EMC helps obese climber to scale Everest
[21:14:54] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:16:04] <skunkworks> could we port emc to this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_integrator
[21:17:12] <skunkworks> I don't know what is scarier - that it was made at all - or that it was used up to the 80's
[21:20:46] <ohiopctechDOTcom> yo yo! i got my indicator and my 9x12 granite surface plate.. we can start doing some precision work now i the basement.. ;)
[21:20:46] <NightHawk_Eng> goodnight to everybody. Here, in Italy, is 11.22 PM
[21:20:55] <ohiopctechDOTcom> later NightHawk_Eng
[21:21:30] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i coulda got the surface palte and indicator monday... but i had them shipped to work.. and i sorta didn't go in till today!
[21:22:22] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ... and they gave me a dollar an hour raise today?
[21:22:38] <ohiopctechDOTcom> after not going in or calling two days in a row.. does that sound right?
[21:22:54] <ohiopctechDOTcom> maybe they were worried i had another job?
[21:31:27] <ds2> now go clean the shipping dust of that rock with some ruby dust ;)
[21:32:06] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ruby dust?.. hmmm
[21:32:20] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i was thinking some laquer thinner.. or windex
[21:35:22] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it's one sexy hunk of rock.. that's all i have to say about it
[21:39:10] <ds2> always diamond dust }:-)
[21:39:15] <ohiopctechDOTcom> are you tryin to hurt my new bitch already?
[21:43:14] <ohiopctechDOTcom> 120 micro-inch repeatable dimensioning/gaging from a toolroom Grade B granite surface plate....
[21:43:28] <ohiopctechDOTcom> too bad my indicator only goes to .001"
[21:43:32] <ohiopctechDOTcom> muahaha
[21:43:45] <ds2> I think I have the exact same plate and it works
[21:43:52] <ds2> just a bit cramped
[21:43:55] <ohiopctechDOTcom> anybody got a .00001 indicator?
[21:45:09] <toastyde1th> lol
[21:45:12] <SWPadnos> do you mean 1/10,000, or 1/100,000?
[21:45:13] <toastyde1th> we do
[21:45:13] <toastyde1th> at work
[21:45:26] <SWPadnos> that's in optical polishing territory
[21:45:28] <ohiopctechDOTcom> we used to have a 4' x 8' pink.. starret plate at my pop's place... it was labratory grade
[21:45:43] <toastyde1th> we have both .00001 and .000001 indicators
[21:45:46] <ds2> that would make a good anvil }:-)
[21:45:46] <ohiopctechDOTcom> 4 foot***
[21:46:17] <ohiopctechDOTcom> they caught me tapping on a bearing to a shaft on that plate one day.. i got a shoe thrown at my head
[21:46:25] <ds2> toastyde1th: are those mechanical indicators?
[21:46:33] <ohiopctechDOTcom> and a stern warning to never never use that plate for a table
[21:46:37] <toastyde1th> ds2: no
[21:46:49] <toastyde1th> the ten-hundreths is digital
[21:46:55] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i found an optical grinder on ebay last night
[21:47:00] <toastyde1th> the millionths is a capacatence probe
[21:47:16] <Jymmmmmmm> ds2: did you say you knew where to get a keypad yesterday? USB or PS2?
[21:47:27] <ds2> Jymmmm: USB
[21:47:34] <ohiopctechDOTcom> any computer store Jymmm
[21:47:49] <ohiopctechDOTcom> commpusa.com
[21:47:52] <ohiopctechDOTcom> pcclub.com
[21:48:02] <ohiopctechDOTcom> computergeeks.com
[21:48:03] <ds2> or if you must have PS2, they have joypads that plug inline
[21:48:19] <ohiopctechDOTcom> there is usb -> ps2 adapters
[21:48:30] <ohiopctechDOTcom> for mice anyways
[21:48:35] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it might work for a keypad
[21:48:35] <ds2> not really
[21:48:53] <ds2> the USB to PS/2 adapters rely on the device to sense and change modes
[21:49:05] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ok..
[21:49:09] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i never looked into them
[21:49:33] <ds2> Jymmm: did you look to see if excess sol'n had any more of the PS/2 joypads?
[21:49:47] <ds2> I mean AT which can be passively adapted to PS/2
[21:50:03] <toastyde1th> why does someone in here need a high accuracy indicator
[21:50:19] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i was just researching my new surface plate...
[21:50:31] <ds2> toastyde1th: how much is the 10millionth indicator typically?
[21:50:32] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it's repeatable down to .000005"
[21:50:42] <toastyde1th> i dunno how much it costs
[21:50:51] <toastyde1th> i think they're like 500-600?
[21:50:58] <ds2> a mic reading down to 50millionth is cheap
[21:51:03] <ds2> whoa
[21:51:22] <toastyde1th> yeah they aren't cheap
[21:51:39] <toastyde1th> the half tenth mark seems to be where the price starts to get logarithmic
[21:51:50] <ohiopctechDOTcom> my digital mic's are being held hostage until i apologize to my entire family for something i didn't do...
[21:51:51] <toastyde1th> insofar as measurement stuff
[21:51:58] <toastyde1th> sue the>
[21:51:59] <toastyde1th> m?
[21:52:01] <ds2> oh I see
[21:52:19] <ds2> ohiopctechDOTcom: digital mics are cheap... think a Mitutoyo is only about $80ish
[21:52:40] <toastyde1th> bbl
[21:52:44] <toastyde1th> toastyde1th is now known as toastydeath
[21:55:30] <ds2> wonder what is involved in doing a check of gage pins if I don't care about NIST traceability
[21:57:10] <ohiopctechDOTcom> http://www.qualitydigest.com/aug03/articles/03_article.shtml <- interesting surface plate article...
[21:58:38] <CIA-8> 03petev 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/boss/boss.ini:
[21:58:38] <CIA-8> -Started debugging machine.
[21:58:38] <CIA-8> -Checkpoint for homing problem.
[22:03:20] <Jymmmmmmm> ds2: PS2 no, they had joystick port ones though
[22:03:53] <ds2> Jymmm: well, then you can either go with a USB one (any big lots around here seems to have them) or...
[22:05:08] <Jymmmmmmm> expensive at biglots
[22:05:15] <ds2> just $10ish
[22:05:34] <Jymmmmmmm> I could buy from frys for $20 and have a warranty =)
[22:05:44] <ohiopctechDOTcom> where you at Jymmm? i got one i'll sell ya for 5
[22:05:46] <ds2> big lots accepts returns
[22:06:03] <Jymmmmmmm> ds2: but would be out of stock to echange it
[22:06:06] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it's a flight stick so it has a throttle for the z axis
[22:06:18] <Jymmmmmmm> ohiopctechDOTcom: ds2 is looking for one
[22:06:27] <ohiopctechDOTcom> 5 plus shipping... it's usb ohh...
[22:06:28] <ds2> *nod*
[22:06:47] <ds2> I got a bunch of the Joypads with AT keyboard interfaces so....
[22:07:05] <ohiopctechDOTcom> topgun after burner II USB joystick
[22:07:10] <Jymmmmmmm> I'm looking for NUMBER_PADS, not joysticks
[22:07:26] <ohiopctechDOTcom> sheesh ok.. i'm with the program now
[22:07:31] <Jymmmmmmm> lol
[22:07:35] <ds2> these joypads have buttons you can program with the scan code
[22:07:55] <ohiopctechDOTcom> like for pos sales?
[22:08:04] <Jymmmmmmm> I want to be able to use the numbers too in thefuture, to input position, count, speed, etc
[22:08:09] <ohiopctechDOTcom> cash registerish?
[22:08:13] <ds2> ah
[22:08:26] <ds2> goto deanza next month and look there?
[22:09:03] <Jymmmmmmm> like this http://www.labtec.com/lang/images/0/484.jpg
[22:09:15] <ohiopctechDOTcom> hey... i have a real EMC related topic... when i try to touch off in axis and i input ANY # other than 0.0000 that's already there, it tells me bad # format
[22:09:49] <ohiopctechDOTcom> cyberguys.com
[22:09:52] <ohiopctechDOTcom> try them
[22:10:16] <cradek> ohiopctechDOTcom: what emc version?
[22:10:27] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it is the live cd
[22:10:40] <ohiopctechDOTcom> installed with the auto updates from ubuntu
[22:10:43] <cradek> what emc version is that?
[22:10:45] <ohiopctechDOTcom> all*
[22:10:51] <cradek> the cd changes over time
[22:10:54] <cradek> help/about
[22:10:57] <ohiopctechDOTcom> 2.14 i believe?
[22:11:30] <ohiopctechDOTcom> 2.1.4
[22:11:56] <cradek> ok let me build that version
[22:12:06] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ehh.. sorry for the trouble..
[22:12:55] <cradek> no problem
[22:13:05] <cradek> does it say bad number format before or after you OK?
[22:13:08] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it's not a huge deal, i expected it to work like... i touch off on the top of the stock and tell axis that's -0.01" so it doesn't cut but i see what it gonna do to the part
[22:13:28] <ohiopctechDOTcom> as soon as i typ anything into that box on the touch off window
[22:13:34] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it change
[22:13:50] <ohiopctechDOTcom> changes*
[22:13:53] <cradek> it should change as you type, and the error should disappear whenever you have something sane in there
[22:14:11] <ohiopctechDOTcom> say i type -0.01
[22:14:16] <ohiopctechDOTcom> still bad
[22:14:24] <cradek> ok
[22:14:28] <cradek> let me try it
[22:14:30] <Jymmmmmmm> I don't mean to sound harsh on this, but ever since I started with EMC back in the BDI days, one thing has ALWAYS bugged me.... the lack of being able to see the version easily. be it a live cd, installed, boot menu, help, about, just SOMEWHERE so you can distinguish one build from another one. No uname-a bullshit either. something that has it all as a "build number that includes distro_emc_varsion+axis_version (if applicable).
[22:14:42] <cradek> Jymmmmmmm: help/about
[22:15:05] <cradek> Jymmmmmmm: and relax please :-)
[22:15:11] <ohiopctechDOTcom> lol Jymmm
[22:15:25] <Jymmmmmmm> cradek: No, this is a biggy for me.... you can't even tell from the ISO you dl what is what.
[22:15:27] <ohiopctechDOTcom> * ohiopctechDOTcom hands jymm a beer
[22:15:40] <ohiopctechDOTcom> help/about
[22:15:51] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it's there in my copy
[22:15:52] <Jymmmmmmm> ohiopctechDOTcom: ISO's dont have a help, about
[22:16:08] <ohiopctechDOTcom> once it's booted...
[22:16:17] <Jymmmmmmm> it's not even downloaded yet
[22:16:22] <Jymmmmmmm> (as example)
[22:16:39] <ohiopctechDOTcom> or dive inside the iso and look at the files... (not easy, but it's an idea)
[22:17:13] <Jymmmmmmm> or a naming convetion on the ISO that matches what you might find on the CLI, or in help,about
[22:18:01] <ohiopctechDOTcom> as you download the iso.. before you click save... rename it to something useful... that's what i did when i dl any iso file
[22:18:08] <ohiopctechDOTcom> and most other ifles
[22:18:27] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i rename them to something i can remember instead of emclive.iso or whatever
[22:18:27] <Jymmmmmmm> I ad the date usually, but that doens't always help.
[22:19:08] <Jymmmmmmm> when someone asks "what veriosn did you install" I couldn't tell them.
[22:19:29] <cradek> Jymmmmmmm: there's no version on the emc2 live cd for a reason - it's dapper with emc, kernel, and rtai packages added. Each of those three things has a version.
[22:19:56] <cradek> as soon as I put a version number on the CD, people would think the right way to do an update is to download the new version of the iso, and that's dead wrong
[22:20:18] <cradek> so there's no version number on it (except "it's dapper") and I don't tell anyone when/if I update it.
[22:20:51] <Jymmmmmmm> well, there should be SOME way to distingish between them, even if it's a funky numbering scheme... 0001-00043-93 distro-emc-axis or some such thing.
[22:21:12] <Jymmmmmmm> you guys work almost exclusively from CVS, rest of us dont
[22:22:22] <ds2> just name it by the MD5sum of the ISO
[22:22:24] <ds2> =)
[22:22:46] <SWPadnos> the point is that you shouldn't be downloading ISOs all the time, you should be updating the packages that need it (or not updating at all, if you don't have a specific need to)
[22:22:48] <cradek> crepincd1tcom: well it seems to work for me
[22:22:53] <Jymmmmmmm> ds2: ok, then that md5 should also be avialable within CLI and maybe helpabout too
[22:23:10] <ds2> Jymmm: md5sum /dev/cdrom
[22:23:11] <ds2> =)
[22:23:12] <Jymmmmmmm> SWPadnos: this is over years, not just the next patch
[22:23:15] <cradek> every package in ubuntu has a version number
[22:23:20] <cradek> including emc
[22:23:24] <cradek> and the kernel, and rtai
[22:23:33] <cradek> when you downloaded what CD is totally irrelevant
[22:23:36] <Jymmmmmmm> ok, and where are those available ?
[22:23:43] <cradek> dpkg -l, synaptic, etc
[22:23:55] <cradek> the emc version is also available in help/about
[22:23:59] <Jymmmmmmm> and is that available from help/about too?
[22:24:00] <cradek> they will match
[22:24:02] <SWPadnos> there's no package list online, if that's what you're asking about
[22:24:13] <SWPadnos> afaik
[22:24:15] <Jymmmmmmm> no, just some unified place to look at
[22:24:44] <SWPadnos> system -> administration -> Synaptic package manager
[22:25:05] <ohiopctechDOTcom> how long would it take to build a cvs version of emc2 on my p2-233 with 384mb of ram? ballpark...
[22:25:09] <cradek> fwiw, emc1 never had version numbers, and the emc versions was often confused with the bdi version etc, it was a real swirl
[22:25:09] <Jymmmmmmm> XPsp2, on cdrom, right click my computer, you have XPsp2 listed, it's consistant,
[22:25:20] <cradek> ohiopctechDOTcom: 10 mins ballpark
[22:25:25] <SWPadnos> ohiopctechDOTcom, 10 minutes or so, maybe a little more
[22:25:26] <Jymmmmmmm> cradek: that's EXACTLY my point, it doens't exist.
[22:25:48] <Jymmmmmmm> even if it's a txt file that can be cat
[22:25:55] <cradek> Jymmmmmmm: well emc2 is not bdi and we do it differently now
[22:26:08] <SWPadnos> Jymmmmmmm, it's not consistent - does that tell you eactly which revisions of what patchset you have installed?
[22:26:33] <SWPadnos> you're getting data like "XP SP2" , which is equivalent to "Dapper"
[22:26:40] <cradek> Jymmmmmmm: synaptic will show you exactly what version of EVERY package you have.
[22:26:55] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ohhh... i got my 8mm skate bearings today
[22:27:09] <ohiopctechDOTcom> they are black n yellow .. woohoo
[22:27:13] <cradek> ohiopctechDOTcom: can you tell me exactly step by step what you're doing? It seems perfect here
[22:27:17] <ohiopctechDOTcom> 8 of them.. and some 3/4 drill rod...
[22:27:40] <SWPadnos> incidentally, system -> about Ubuntu will give you the release version (such as "Dapper, released in June 2006")
[22:27:48] <Jymmmmmmm> cradek: I'm not looking for EVERY patch, but when someones asks me "what version did you install" I'm just looking for that "version number" in one central place, and this "number" to also be found on ISO (if applicable) is all
[22:27:58] <cradek> nobody will ask you that
[22:27:58] <SWPadnos> err - "6.06 LTS - dapper drake, released ..."
[22:28:06] <cradek> they WILL ask what version you're currently running
[22:28:26] <cradek> what you installed is irrelevant once you have any updates
[22:28:47] <cradek> to answer the question of what emc you're running, you can use help/about
[22:29:10] <cradek> to answer the question about any package (including emc), you can use synaptic
[22:29:17] <ohiopctechDOTcom> load emc up.... (with axis) set my homes for x,y,z... move z to a place i would like to set a number for my part... hit touch off... type "-0.010"
[22:29:30] <ohiopctechDOTcom> results: bad number format
[22:30:00] <ohiopctechDOTcom> maybe load a file in between starting and touching off
[22:30:09] <ohiopctechDOTcom> sometimes not
[22:30:34] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/touchoff.png
[22:31:01] <ohiopctechDOTcom> is the trailing zero they key?
[22:31:08] <ohiopctechDOTcom> 4 deci's?
[22:31:33] <ohiopctechDOTcom> nope...
[22:31:56] <ohiopctechDOTcom> could it be my keyboard map or something? it's the standard english from ubuntu i believe
[22:32:02] <Jymmmmmmm> I'm sorry you guys aren't getting what I'm saying here (really), but it's really been frustrating over the years.
[22:32:55] <cradek> ohiopctechDOTcom: I'm really baffled. Does it ever look like mine? if you try a positive number?
[22:33:05] <ohiopctechDOTcom> could it be something in my .ini making it react this way?
[22:33:51] <cradek> experiment and see what, if any, numbers it will accept
[22:34:02] <ohiopctechDOTcom> no, i have to cancel to get it to reset to 0.0000
[22:34:14] <ohiopctechDOTcom> not even entering 0.0000 again wil lchange it
[22:34:26] <cradek> wtf
[22:34:31] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i'll try a whoile #
[22:34:32] <cradek> you're in the US right?
[22:34:34] <ohiopctechDOTcom> whole*
[22:34:38] <ohiopctechDOTcom> yes
[22:34:44] <ds2> try 0,0000?
[22:34:48] <ohiopctechDOTcom> could it be the old keyboard i am using?
[22:35:02] <ds2> (yes, with a ",")
[22:35:03] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it's an AT keyboard with an AT to PS2 adapter
[22:35:18] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i use it cuz i like the heavy keys and the clicking ;)
[22:35:24] <SWPadnos> after the , experiment, make sure there are no spaces
[22:35:39] <ohiopctechDOTcom> when you type it goes... "clickity click click clickity click"
[22:36:03] <ohiopctechDOTcom> nooo.. the "," was a typo here
[22:36:13] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i pay atention to the #'s i put in the other machine
[22:36:16] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i don't wanna crash it
[22:36:18] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ;)
[22:36:39] <SWPadnos> the test was for european number formatting, which uses the comma for a decimal
[22:36:48] <ds2> the ',' experiment is to see if there is some internationalization crap going on
[22:36:50] <SWPadnos> point
[22:37:06] <cradek> I'm 99% sure it's not that since the rs274 interp always requires .
[22:37:17] <cradek> but this is very puzzling
[22:37:19] <ohiopctechDOTcom> 0hh!
[22:37:37] <cradek> * cradek waits for it
[22:37:41] <bytecolor> Oh instead of Zero
[22:37:56] <cradek> no way
[22:37:57] <ohiopctechDOTcom> when i add a ","
[22:38:03] <bytecolor> hehe
[22:38:18] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it changes to unknown operation
[22:39:04] <ohiopctechDOTcom> "0," = "Unknown Operation"
[22:39:22] <bytecolor> you could try pasting from another source, instead of keying it in
[22:39:41] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emccanon.cc: reading the probe position was polluting canonEndPoint with offset stuff
[22:39:47] <ohiopctechDOTcom> * ohiopctechDOTcom runs around the corner again
[22:41:11] <ohiopctechDOTcom> copy n paste of "-0.0100" = "unknown operation"
[22:41:23] <ohiopctechDOTcom> *from the text editor on the live cd
[22:42:21] <ds2> can you type in something like "2.222"?
[22:42:22] <ohiopctechDOTcom> if i delete the copy n pasted info, back to nothing... it returns to "bad number format"
[22:42:37] <cradek> I get bad number format when it's empty
[22:42:48] <cradek> but as soon as I type anything (like "1") it says =1.00000
[22:43:00] <ohiopctechDOTcom> same
[22:43:10] <ohiopctechDOTcom> same for 2.222*
[22:43:17] <SWPadnos> same error or same "1.00000"
[22:43:46] <ds2> Linux doesn't do EBDIC or anything odd, does it?
[22:43:59] <cradek> nah
[22:44:23] <ohiopctechDOTcom> anything i type in there...
[22:44:34] <ohiopctechDOTcom> not even back to 0.0000
[22:44:39] <ohiopctechDOTcom> bad number format
[22:44:44] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i even typed in my name
[22:44:45] <ds2> wonder if it is a python class thing... I have seen similar behavior on other apps and it took a lot of tabbing around to get around it
[22:44:48] <ohiopctechDOTcom> lol
[22:45:08] <ohiopctechDOTcom> *jason
[22:45:12] <ohiopctechDOTcom> not chr0n1c
[22:45:29] <ohiopctechDOTcom> it seems to think that's not a #
[22:46:22] <ohiopctechDOTcom> if i boot form the live cd it will use that config instead of mine on the HD right? (i'll unplugg the hd to be sure
[22:46:31] <ohiopctechDOTcom> i'l try it that way
[22:48:53] <bytecolor> cool, it will evaluate expression
[22:49:28] <bytecolor> with functions too :)
[22:52:52] <ohiopctechDOTcom> ha my live cd didn't weather too well out of the case on my bench apparently...
[22:53:02] <ohiopctechDOTcom> * ohiopctechDOTcom looks for the iso
[22:53:52] <ohiopctechDOTcom> * ohiopctechDOTcom will put this one in a case and label it even
[22:56:13] <bytecolor> looks like it calls gcode.parse() which is the same parser for loaded gcode in axis I would think
[22:56:37] <bytecolor> result, seq = gcode.parse("", canon, "M199 P["+v+"]", "M2")
[22:57:07] <bytecolor> where v is the Z coordinate you type in the dialog
[23:00:50] <ohiopctechDOTcom> that test will have to wait...
[23:00:57] <ohiopctechDOTcom> looks like i deleted the iso
[23:03:04] <ohiopctechDOTcom> * ohiopctechDOTcom redownloading the lived-cd iso @ 170kb/s
[23:03:26] <ohiopctechDOTcom> :( where is that t3 i ordered... haha j/k
[23:09:03] <tomp> from hal manual "(B I T) encoder.<chan>.velocity – Estimated speed of the quadrature signal." :) got velocity?
[23:13:09] <tomp> its ok in man encoder ( where i should be looking for the specifics :-[ )
[23:21:38] <ohiopctechDOTcom> * ohiopctechDOTcom just added the chips.gif to the top of my cnc section ... ;)
[23:38:43] <skunkworks> cradek: jepler: one last time.. where is the eagle script you guys made?
[23:40:33] <ohiopctechDOTcom> has anyone around here built one of the steam engines i have been watching on youtube?
[23:40:41] <ohiopctechDOTcom> awesome machines...