#emc | Logs for 2007-03-30

[00:28:49] <jmkasunich> jet propelled human fighter plane: http://jet-man.com/playervideo.swf?video=jetman2007.flv
[00:31:27] <jmkasunich> I wonder how fast he's going?
[00:40:51] <cradek> http://www.mechadraulic.com/images/ebay/bridgeport05.jpg
[00:41:10] <skunkworks> oops
[00:41:29] <skunkworks> nice helixs
[01:11:45] <jmkasunich> somebody wasn
[01:11:51] <jmkasunich> wasn't paying attention
[01:11:57] <jmkasunich> that didn't happen in 10 seconds
[01:12:58] <skunkworks> reminds me of work. the machine shop bought a nice old drill press - the table was perfect.
[01:13:21] <skunkworks> then the owner of the company came down to use it for a second - drilled right into the table.
[01:13:57] <jmkasunich> well at least he can't chew anybody out about it
[01:14:12] <toastydeath> why do you tell us sad stories =(
[02:13:47] <eric_u> Penn State was selling a very old bridgeport a few years back that had a table that looked like the surface of the moon
[02:14:13] <eric_u> I have no idea how a lot of the damage could have happened
[02:16:55] <eric_u> I guess after the first few hundred drill strikes, there is no incentive not to use the mill table as an anvil
[02:22:16] <cradek> that's very sad
[02:22:21] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:22:52] <jmkasunich> old machines don't die, they just get neglected and abused
[02:24:20] <eric_u> that machine was at least usable as a mill with a little work
[02:24:48] <eric_u> we had an old horizontal mill that had been converted into a really stupid bearing test stand
[02:24:57] <skunkworks> the 14' planer would straiten it back out ;)
[02:25:39] <eric_u> and I've seen at least one vertical mill that was modified into something that couldn't cut any more
[02:26:35] <eric_u> I'm sure there have been quite a few more, Universities are good at creative destruction
[02:26:48] <cradek> that's definitely true
[02:27:13] <cradek> high schools too
[02:29:59] <skunkworks> I really should be unpacking boxes.
[02:30:38] <skunkworks> or go to bed
[02:33:47] <skunkworks> bed it is - night ;)
[02:36:31] <jmkasunich> anybody know what "VFS: busy inodes on changed media" means?
[02:37:14] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich STFW
[02:41:27] <jmkasunich> thou shouldst not eject thy CD-ROM with out unmounting it
[02:41:52] <jmkasunich> (did so yesterday - its been putting several messages into the kernel log every second for over 24 hours)
[02:43:33] <toastydeath> lol
[02:45:51] <jmkasunich> heh - 106070 lines of that message in /var/log/messages.... 26 lines that _aren't_ that message
[02:46:53] <cradek> doesn't linux syslog say "last line repeated 10000 times"?
[02:47:01] <jmkasunich> apparenly not
[02:47:11] <jmkasunich> I recall seeing that in the past (other distros)
[02:47:16] <jmkasunich> don't recall seeing it lately
[02:48:17] <cradek> it's funny how some software gets better and some breaks over time
[02:48:25] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:48:53] <jmkasunich> there were 46688 instances of that message in the messages.0 too...
[02:49:14] <jmkasunich> I'm glad I happened to look at the log (checking something completely unrelated)
[02:50:18] <jmkasunich> it was going at something like 16 megabytes per day
[02:55:17] <ejholmgren> nice
[02:55:40] <ejholmgren> is it on the root filesystem?
[02:56:01] <jmkasunich> not sure if var is on its own partition
[03:09:10] <jmkasunich> from "man sysklogd", regarding how to deal with users who are flooding the logs:
[03:09:11] <jmkasunich> 5. Use step 4 and if the problem persists and is not secondary to a
[03:09:12] <jmkasunich> rogue program/daemon get a 3.5 ft (approx. 1 meter) length of
[03:09:12] <jmkasunich> sucker rod* and have a chat with the user in question.
[03:14:30] <toastyde1th> toastyde1th is now known as toastydeath
[03:32:35] <ds3> Hmmm
[03:32:59] <eric_u> why is it impossible to sing in French?
[03:34:07] <ejholmgren> how does he steer?
[03:34:23] <eric_u> you mean jet-man?
[03:35:30] <ejholmgren> yah
[03:36:31] <ejholmgren> I can speack some french
[03:36:38] <ejholmgren> but apprently not enough
[03:44:36] <asdfqwega> A question about the 'setsmi' command - is there a recommended way to have it run when EMC starts, or should I just put line into rc.local?
[03:51:24] <CIA-19> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/rtcomps.lyx: revised stepgen documentation to match the code, marked freqgen as deprecated in the docs
[03:53:41] <ds3> would it be worthwhile fitting one of those micro keyboard vaccuums on a spindle for particle collection (i.e. PCB milling) and air cooling?
[03:54:49] <ejholmgren> have enough suction?
[03:55:06] <ds3> no idea, just see them cheap (~$5)
[03:55:33] <ejholmgren> cheap shopvac might be better
[03:55:40] <ejholmgren> at the expense of being loud as hell
[03:55:57] <ds3> but a cheap shop vaccum means i have to run an unweildy hose
[03:56:08] <ejholmgren> have a link?
[03:56:14] <ds3> one sec
[03:57:09] <ejholmgren> gah ...
[03:57:20] <eric_u> I vote against all cheap tools
[03:57:25] <ejholmgren> these flash windows server ads are obnoxious
[03:57:34] <ds3> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.635
[03:57:47] <ejholmgren> 'so and so wins big with rock solid reliability ..."
[03:57:48] <ds3> I disable flash all together
[03:58:08] <ejholmgren> "we weren't getting it from our legacy infrastructure"
[03:58:30] <ejholmgren> most likely the old infrastructure was ms based too?
[03:58:40] <ejholmgren> bah!
[03:59:30] <ejholmgren> the ad should read, " We bought the new version from the same company because the older one was shitty. This has nothing to do with being better than Linux"
[04:00:20] <ejholmgren> maybe I'm just pissed because they run two win 2003 boxes at work
[04:01:13] <ejholmgren> on another note, hard to beat trying it out fro only $1.74
[04:01:28] <ejholmgren> going to attach it directly to the side of the spindle?
[04:01:33] <ds3> yep.
[04:01:38] <ds3> this is on a tiny desktop mill
[04:02:11] <ejholmgren> sherline sized?
[04:02:13] <ds3> the USB power is a plus, one less power cube
[04:02:19] <ds3> yes; a Taig
[04:02:39] <ds3> I was engraving plastic a few weeks ago and it took hours to clean up the spray of plastic "chips"
[04:03:32] <ejholmgren> invest in a regular vacuum cleaner first then ;)
[04:04:02] <ejholmgren> who was the one milling on their bed?
[04:04:07] <ejholmgren> crep?
[04:04:30] <ds3> it is the hose routing problem
[04:04:44] <eric_u> I've seen a picture of a mill on his bed
[04:04:51] <eric_u> but I don't think he was cutting there
[04:05:10] <ds3> haha
[04:21:12] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Thur April 5th @ 1830?
[04:54:03] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Reservations made!
[12:19:12] <skunkworks> pauls last 2 emails almosts seem civil... (hi paul!) granted they slam a little bit but maybe he is coming around ;)
[12:21:45] <alex_joni> skunkworks: that's wishfull thinking
[12:22:59] <skunkworks> alex_joni: I know :(
[12:24:09] <skunkworks> oh well
[12:24:29] <a-l-p-h-a> first paragraph isn't that bad.
[12:24:32] <a-l-p-h-a> stopped after that.
[14:24:06] <MrSun> humm, you people who know a thing or two :) .. Bipolar stepper motors they have to have a negative voltage also or is it just to reverse the poles? :)
[14:31:13] <jepler> MrSun: L298 is a chip that can drive bipolar steppers with positive supply only. It still requires two supply voltages, well-regulated 5V for logic and 12..46V for motor power.
[14:32:00] <jepler> MrSun: most bipolar stepper drivers work in a similar fashion to the L298, using the structure called an "H-bridge" which can connect each side of a motor winding to either Vdrive or GND
[14:32:41] <jepler> L298: http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/1773.pdf usually used in combination with L297, which takes step+direction input
[14:43:30] <MrSun> humm :)
[14:44:13] <MrSun> to weak :P
[14:45:01] <MrSun> found engines very very cheap if i can get my father to buy them as they only sell to people with a company ... 12.5Nm holding but sucks in 4.5A :)
[14:45:24] <skunkworks> hmm - I would look at gecko then..
[14:45:34] <jepler> there are many different H-bridge stepper drivers out there
[14:45:59] <MrSun> the bipolar drive ri have for my small engines i found on another page and it said it could take 5A :P
[14:45:59] <jepler> L298 is just one example
[14:46:19] <MrSun> the humm .. what is they named .. the big ones of transistors? :P
[14:46:28] <MrSun> are rated for like 12A and 48A or something like that :)
[14:49:08] <MrSun> gah all h-bridges i find is to small :)
[14:49:17] <jepler> besides adequate current rating, other important properties for a stepper driver include: half-stepping or microstepping, current limiting or "chopper" circuit, and input voltage several times the steppers' rated voltage.
[14:49:38] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24699&highlight=allegro
[14:49:57] <MrSun> jepler, yeah figured when i noticed one of the ones i found had micro stepping :)
[14:49:59] <jepler> many people report that http://geckodrive.com/ are great, except that you can't change the 10x microstepping
[14:50:18] <jepler> (often 10x microstepping means too many steps per second for software step generation)
[14:51:48] <jepler> while it does have a bias towards gecko drives, this is a very good article on what it takes to drive a stepper well: http://geckodrive.com/photos/Step_motor_basics.pdf
[14:53:42] <jepler> (everything in there rings true to me, except that I haven't ever experienced 'mid-band resonance')
[15:01:30] <MrSun> .calc 200 * 30
[15:01:34] <MrSun> doh :)
[15:08:16] <rafa_> HELOO FRIENDS
[15:10:18] <rafa_> I LIKE KNOW SOMEBODY KNOW : Marc Le Douarain
[15:10:23] <rafa_> OR MAVATTI
[15:13:19] <MrSun> how about you drop the caps? :)
[15:13:31] <MrSun> you know, the button named "caps lock" :P
[15:14:08] <cradek> rafa_: I found his email address with 10 seconds of web searching
[15:14:39] <rafa_> ok
[15:15:05] <rafa_> do for me?
[15:15:51] <cradek> do what?
[15:16:23] <rafa_> this email
[15:16:46] <cradek> do you have access to google?
[15:17:14] <rafa_> tanks friend
[15:17:45] <rafa_> if you no want help-me very tanks
[15:18:24] <cradek> I'm trying to help you learn how to find information for yourself
[15:18:33] <cradek> google is a good place to start
[15:20:25] <cradek> if you ask people lots of simple things that are easy to answer by yourself, they will not want to help you when you have a hard question
[15:21:52] <cradek> yelling (typing your question in all caps looks like yelling) makes it much worse
[15:23:33] <anonimasu> hi
[15:23:59] <cradek> hi
[15:25:03] <rafa_> vai a merda
[15:25:06] <anonimasu> ?
[15:25:21] <rafa_> vai a merda
[15:25:29] <rafa_> vai a merda cracked
[15:25:43] <anonimasu> rafa_: We dont speak that language sorry...
[15:25:52] <rafa_> vai a merda cracked
[15:25:58] <rafa_> google for you
[15:26:01] <rafa_> in 10 s
[15:26:07] <rafa_> altavista
[15:26:10] <rafa_> etc
[15:26:15] <rafa_> yahooo
[15:26:16] <anonimasu> rafa_: stop being a moron..
[15:26:34] <rafa_> i dont speak your lenguage
[15:26:45] <cradek> * cradek sighs
[15:26:49] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs more
[15:27:04] <cradek> I tried to be polite but it must have still been offensive
[15:27:17] <anonimasu> I were trying to be offensive but it was already too late..
[15:27:28] <anonimasu> ^_^
[15:28:01] <cradek> Automatically translated text:
[15:28:02] <cradek> you go to merda
[15:28:10] <anonimasu> I saw lots of cnc machines today
[15:28:11] <anonimasu> big ones :)
[15:28:20] <cradek> haha, not too hard to fill in the blanks there
[15:28:18] <anonimasu> and a laser..
[15:28:20] <anonimasu> and robots..
[15:28:26] <anonimasu> 8 of them
[15:28:26] <anonimasu> :D
[15:28:45] <anonimasu> I think they had 18 machines where I visited
[15:28:58] <anonimasu> 6500m2
[15:29:06] <cradek> all in use?
[15:29:19] <cradek> or a surplus sales place?
[15:29:22] <anonimasu> all in use
[15:29:27] <cradek> fun
[15:30:05] <anonimasu> though they were to big to see the actual machining
[15:30:20] <anonimasu> :)
[15:31:25] <cradek> what does this factory/shop make?
[15:32:33] <anonimasu> pm..
[15:32:37] <anonimasu> :)
[16:06:10] <anonimasu> *yawn*
[16:58:37] <alex_joni> hi
[17:02:20] <jepler> hi alex_joni
[17:02:31] <jepler> I was looking at the entry moves on that g-code you sent me .. they are a little strange
[17:05:12] <alex_joni> heh.. it's a CAM option
[17:05:23] <alex_joni> and I think it's quite usefull..
[17:05:35] <alex_joni> (I agree they could be smarter)
[17:29:29] <tomp> merda = sh*t , thanks rafa
[17:43:14] <bytecolor> jepler, is it possible to get Tk cascading popop menus to automagically raise, instead of having to click on them?
[17:50:22] <tomp> weird connections again. Donald Duck pulls out a portugese/english dictionary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMd0Iw1t9Co
[17:54:33] <bytecolor> hey tomp
[17:54:50] <tomp> hey! lunchtime little theatre on youtube
[17:55:12] <bytecolor> hehe, ever heard 'duckjob' ?
[17:55:41] <tomp> dont go there, this channel gets too crazy somedays
[17:56:10] <bytecolor> hehe, hey that's where the phrase 'tweening' came from in computer graphics
[17:56:39] <bytecolor> one guy drew all the key frames, then other people drew all the 'in between' frames
[17:56:55] <tomp> really? i had a tweener on b&w macs, ? animationFactory? was fun
[17:57:00] <bytecolor> they were called 'tweeners'
[17:59:52] <tomp> ok, back to it, gotta get jumper clips to finish testing last 2 flame sensors. bbl
[18:00:16] <bytecolor> seeya, gotta go pay some bills
[18:03:46] <anonimasu> tomp: nice
[18:24:33] <CIA-19> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/sim/sim.var: fix feedhold documentation error
[18:24:35] <CIA-19> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/config/emc2hal.lyx: fix feedhold documentation error
[18:27:20] <CIA-19> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/sim/sim.var: revert accidental change to var file
[18:34:13] <fdos> evening. afternoon or whatever!
[19:16:36] <MrSun> http://www.nutchip.com/progetti/stepper_schematic.gif <-- ehm .. what is that "nut chip" .. looks like something interesting :P
[19:16:55] <MrSun> or is it just an ordenary microprocessor? :)0
[19:18:00] <jepler> NUT chip must be some small microcontroller
[19:18:35] <jepler> it looks like some kind of CPLD
[19:18:37] <jepler> "Nutchips are different because they use truth tables instead of a programming language."
[19:20:05] <jepler> that design seems to lack current feedback, which is necessary for decent performance in stepper motor drivers
[19:20:37] <MrSun> ye .. just looked at it if it could be usefull :)
[19:21:38] <MrSun> its a tad to much theory behind driving these damn things effiently :P
[19:22:50] <MrSun> is there any electornic program like electronic workbench for linux? :)
[19:23:44] <jepler> I'm not familiar with that program. There are some circuit simulation programs for linux but I do not have more than one hour of experience with any of them, and I have forgotten the names.
[19:24:12] <MrSun> yeah .. circuit simulation .. thats what its called :)
[19:26:36] <alex_joni> you are looking for spice & co
[19:27:17] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPICE
[19:36:04] <MrSun> humm
[20:05:31] <jepler> bytecolor: I am sure there is some way
[20:05:53] <jepler> bytecolor: from the man page for 'menu', you can bind something to the <<MenuSelect>> event, and that binding is called when the active item changes.
[20:06:14] <jepler> bytecolor: you could put code in that binding to display the cascade menu if the item is a cascade
[20:07:16] <bytecolor> jepler, I see. yeah I dont think it's common knowledge, though. Every Tkinter app I've tried, you have to click the menu, instead of having it auto-raise when hovered over
[20:07:26] <bytecolor> just a small annoyance :)
[20:07:55] <bytecolor> It's not so bad for main menus, but for right click popups...
[20:08:41] <bytecolor> Danial Falk pointed me to some popup menu code you posted once
[20:08:44] <bytecolor> working well
[20:13:29] <alex_joni> good night all
[20:46:33] <tomp> Mr. SUn: there are Tcl/Tk circuit simulators like a very basic Electronic Workbench ( drop ic on grid, wire, make, led go blinky ) http://linux.softpedia.com/progScreenshots/KTechlab-Screenshot-1945.html http://ksimus.berlios.de/screenshot.html http://www.tetzl.de/java_logic_simulator.html#download just a few of 'em
[20:50:27] <bytecolor> that first isnt Tk, is it?
[20:59:21] <tomp> bytecolor: right. here's tcl/tk stuff tkgate & gmac ( the macro assembler for new gates to use with tkgate ) http://packages.ubuntulinux.org/hoary/source/tkgate
[21:11:40] <danielbr> hello guys
[21:12:27] <danielbr> my aplogies for that another guy from Brazil
[21:12:37] <danielbr> apologies
[21:13:52] <danielbr> http://www.create.ucsb.edu/~dano/CUI/
[21:14:08] <tomp> its ok, he's pretty frustrated
[21:14:50] <danielbr> I think this can be useful with hal_input
[21:14:53] <tomp> nice, a usb with breadboard?
[21:14:53] <anonimasu> :)
[21:15:23] <danielbr> tomp: yes i think so
[21:16:42] <danielbr> i just find that link
[21:20:15] <danielbr> http://www.lvr.com/hidpage.htm
[21:20:24] <danielbr> another similar
[21:25:02] <danielbr> someone can tell me how is possible mesure latencies for hal_input signals
[21:25:48] <bytecolor> tomp, ah
[21:34:24] <danielbr> i'm thinking use one signal and two optos output.opto1 hook in a parport pin output2 hook hook in a hal_input pin and comparethe delay in halscope
[21:37:47] <tomp> danielbr: sounds like the right beginning, someone here might be able to advise how to do this.. automate and log the signals, so the latency can be observed while you 'aggravate' the system.
[21:39:57] <danielbr> thanks tomp
[21:43:32] <danielbr> tomp: what you think about use some analog input from a device like these picusb for EDM feedback?
[21:44:11] <gene_> hey guys
[21:44:58] <gene_> Got a passwd problem
[21:45:32] <jepler> a question for #ubuntu maybe
[21:46:28] <gene_> sudo wouldn't work, su would, so I su myself, blew away the root entry in nthe passwd file & that didn't fix sudo
[21:46:47] <gene_> So now I'm hosed
[21:48:20] <jepler> gene_: boot in "recovery" mode, and put a valid sudoers file in place. my sudoers file is shown here: http://pastebin.ca/417465
[21:48:26] <jepler> you would only need to add the lines which are not blank or comment
[21:48:37] <jepler> # This file MUST be edited with the 'visudo' command as root.
[21:49:00] <jepler> after you get this fixed up, you will avoid certain kinds of foot-shooting events if you follow that advice.
[21:57:14] <danielbr> i tested a joypad with hal_input, it seems very responsive
[21:58:04] <jepler> gene_: if you toasted some entries in /etc/passwd or /etc/shadow you will have to put them back as well. my entries shown here: http://pastebin.ca/417477
[22:09:55] <CIA-19> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man1/hal_input.1: show how to make all input devices accessible to group plugdev
[22:10:30] <CIA-19> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/man/man1/hal_input.1: merge rev 1.9: show how to make all input devices accessible to group plugdev
[22:14:35] <CIA-19> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/user_comps/hal_input.py: using select instead of sleep may reduce average input latency
[22:16:11] <danielbr> thanks jepler
[22:20:00] <danielbr> jepler: after that change what latency is normal? (average)
[22:20:09] <danielbr> can you bet some number?
[22:20:39] <jepler> danielbr: no bets
[22:20:43] <jepler> it is probably not a big difference
[22:20:54] <jepler> whatever you do, it's not realtime so the worst-case delays are unbobunded
[22:22:07] <jepler> bbl
[22:55:03] <twice2> what is the cardinal sin of a machine control app?
[22:56:23] <SWPadnos> killing the operator
[22:56:40] <twice2> horseshoes?
[22:56:53] <SWPadnos> close enough
[22:57:02] <SWPadnos> oops - gotta run. bbl
[23:06:10] <toastydeath> the cardinal sin of a machine control ap
[23:06:10] <toastydeath> p
[23:06:22] <toastydeath> is reminding the operator they're using a machine controller.
[23:22:31] <anonimasu> lol
[23:24:46] <robin_sz> is it plunging hte tool through the machine base?
[23:25:28] <anonimasu> :P
[23:25:59] <robin_sz> machine toos suck anyway
[23:26:20] <robin_sz> robot operated tools. much better
[23:57:16] <jepler> twice2: I'm sorry I gave you the wrong commandline to downgrade to an older emc2 release
[23:57:40] <jepler> twice2: it should be sudo apt-get install emc2-sim=1:2.1.2